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Monday, January 06, 2014

The perils of global warming

Antarctica rescue: Xue Long calls for help after becoming stuck while trying to help Akademik Shokalskiy.

And they say that God doesn't have a sense of humor. Tell us more about that scientific consensus. That frozen, scientific consensus in need of rescue because it is stuck in the ice.

Labels:

102 Comments:

Anonymous Josh January 06, 2014 2:06 AM  

No, see, the global warming is what's causing all this ice, and the cold that's hit most of the US this weekend.

Blogger Hazim January 06, 2014 2:12 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Hazim January 06, 2014 2:13 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Toby Temple January 06, 2014 2:22 AM  

That should be a meme. The 2014 meme.

Anonymous Daniel January 06, 2014 2:42 AM  

The winds are killer where I'm at tonight. It's about six below with winds that truly take your breath away. Thank God the ice up north is doomed to shrink: I can't imagine surviving this winter without a healthy dose of global warming.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2013 January 06, 2014 3:02 AM  

The American's are now on their way to rescue the Chinese and Russian flagged ships. Having departed Sydney Australia, the Polar Star should be there in a week.

If a solar minimum is in any way driving this perhaps they will get there too late? This story could yet be bigger than anticipated. Is a hull breach on the Russian ship a possibility?

Meanwhile beneath all that arctic ice is a silent testimony to judgment all around. Tropical vegetation.

Cognitive Dissonance puts another notch in its ivory handled six shooter.

Blogger IM2L844 January 06, 2014 3:10 AM  

I wonder how many tons of greenhouse gases were directly generated by this debacle and all of it's ancillary activities.

Anonymous shillsforthepowerful January 06, 2014 3:11 AM  

Well it's settled then, fire up the coal furnaces! Pump out the smog and the gas until we're choking on it and feeling our way along the sidewalks!

Don't worry, the lolbertarians have a picture that proves it was all a conspiracy. Where would we be without them.

Blogger Allabaster January 06, 2014 3:14 AM  

Apparently the voyage now had nothing to do with climate change. They must be at least slightly aware of the jack asses they look

Blogger buzzardist January 06, 2014 3:29 AM  

What your average Michael Mann-like person must be saying right now:

Oh, but these photos are of a localized locale, and because they are local and not global, they cannot possibly provide valid data regarding global warming!

[Note to self: Begin deleting all of those photos of localized retreating ice that we've been using to promote global warming, and do everything possible to obfuscate the fact that our "global" climate data is extrapolated from a handful of local weather stations.]

Anonymous The CronoLink January 06, 2014 3:31 AM  

::points at warmist true-believers::
Ha-Ha!!

Anonymous Idle Spectator January 06, 2014 3:36 AM  

Aww, where's Stephen Hawking when you need him?


...riding the storm out and uncharacteristically awake and idle.

Gosh, I am getting numbers without even trying now. The Idle Touch.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2013 January 06, 2014 3:39 AM  

shillsforthepowerful

AT YOU, rather than for you. Carbon Dioxide is a clear colorless odorless tasteless gas. If the room you are sitting it had its CO2 raised from 400 ppm to 1000 ppm you wouldn't notice anything. Nothing at all. Your pulse wouldn't change; your respiration rate wouldn't change at all. The room would not get magically warmer. The thermal capacity wouldn't alter, the thermal inertia wouldn't alter, the thermal sensitivity/ spectral absorption would be immeasurably different in practical terms.

It is people like you who are inflicting pain misery dystopian hell onto middle class Westerners from pole to pole. Your ignorance is creating an economic nightmare. Your glib pseudo science is hurting genuine science, your 'friends' are riding the ridiculous to totalitarianism.

Blogger Markku January 06, 2014 3:51 AM  

Still remember this tune?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 06, 2014 4:56 AM  

I'd forgotten the Climategate Hide The Decline Song. Thanks for reminding me.

Blogger Ron January 06, 2014 5:04 AM  

Wouldn't it be great if God gets those jerks to amass a small flotilla of trapped global warmists?

It would be tricky but He could pull it off.

Blogger Markku January 06, 2014 5:09 AM  

It's like the Children's Crusade, kinda, only more sciencey.

Blogger Markku January 06, 2014 5:16 AM  

AGW believers of the world, unite!

...

Not like THAT, you morons.

Anonymous zen0 January 06, 2014 5:40 AM  

@ shillsforthepowerful

I think you are on to something, there. Its no secrect that Vox Day's Blog is entirely financed by Big Oil.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 06, 2014 5:41 AM  

I wonder how many tons of greenhouse gases were directly generated by this debacle and all of it's ancillary activities.

Apparently these idiotarians promised before they left to plan 1000 trees to offset the, ahme, carbon footprint of their voyage. Some wag - one of those heartless deniers who wants to roast the earth no doubt - has pointed out they will need to plant considerably more trees now to account for all the extra fuel used to save their sorry asses.

Irony abounds. Wonder if any of that ice has cause fuel leaks into the water? Oh, those poor polar bears, poisoned!!!!

And as this life-threatening (literally) storm blanketing the country might be reminding some people, global warming is a lot better than global cooling.

Anonymous zen0 January 06, 2014 5:43 AM  

@ Markku:

Are you still celebrating the Finnish victory in the junior hockey?

I hope Henrik Haapala doesn't have to apply for disability pension after suffering that devastating hand injury against Canada.

Blogger Markku January 06, 2014 5:45 AM  

poor polar bears

Wrong pole.

Blogger Markku January 06, 2014 5:46 AM  

Finnish victory in the junior hockey?

This is the first that I've heard about such a victory. Good for them, I suppose.

Blogger Laughingdog January 06, 2014 5:48 AM  

You just don't understand things properly. My mother is a wise, wise woman, and she said it's all man-made climate change now.

So we are all still evil and hate the Earth.

Anonymous Idle Spectator January 06, 2014 6:02 AM  

Wrong pole.

Poor... lichens?

Anonymous Jack Amok January 06, 2014 6:10 AM  

poor polar bears

Wrong pole.


Well yes, I konw that. You know that. But do those idiots on the boat know it?

Anonymous Stilicho January 06, 2014 6:23 AM  

Apparently these idiotarians promised before they left to plan 1000 trees to offset the, ahme, carbon footprint of their voyage.

I do wish we could get the warmalists to actually plant the trees they are always claiming they are going to plant. We're going to need the firewood.

Blogger Markku January 06, 2014 6:32 AM  

lichens?

Penguins.

Anonymous FP January 06, 2014 7:08 AM  

Its a trick. Get an axe. Or an icebreaker or two or three.

Where all the poor polar bears at? Clubbin baby seals.

"We're going to need the firewood."

The watermelons would rather freeze to save the spotted owls.

Blogger Trump Soldier January 06, 2014 7:13 AM  

Stuck in their own ignorance...

Anonymous WetterSchauung January 06, 2014 7:26 AM  

Meanwhile the Weather Channel still presses it's worldview... serving up FUDD since 1982...

January 2, 2014 - An alarming new report says scientists have underestimated the amount of global warming in our future. Fewer clouds in a warmer world could mean even more warming.

http://www.weather.com/video/global-warming-cloud-mystery-solved-42882?collid=/news/environment

Anonymous Joe Doakes January 06, 2014 7:26 AM  

It's -21 in Saint Paul this morning, colder out-state, wind chills in the -40 to -60 range, coldest since at least 1996. Schools closed statewide today already, tomorrow maybe. More proof of global warming?

Anonymous Anonymous January 06, 2014 7:34 AM  

A thoroughly deceptive pair of photographs. The second photograph is actually at least 40 miles outside Commonwealth Bay, that being the extent of the extra ice. I hope you are thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Anonymous HongKongCharlie January 06, 2014 7:51 AM  

40 miles! OMG! My favorite eating place is farther than that from my house and i've noticed the climate there is the same as the climate at my house. Try to calm yourself.

HKC

Anonymous Salt January 06, 2014 8:09 AM  

One AGW'er said it's not the sea ice but the deteriorating land ice that's confirming GW. I wonder when we'll all be assessed a Pole Tax.


Anonymous Toby Temple January 06, 2014 8:13 AM  

For squawkbox.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 06, 2014 8:24 AM  

Shouldn't they use the flamethrowers to melt the ship's way out of the ice? If they meet a Thing when the flamethrowers are out of course they are in deep trouble, but the main thing is just to get out of there before what was frozen in the ice wakes.

Anonymous rattles begging bowl January 06, 2014 8:27 AM  

I am toitally willing to shill for the powerful - drop $100k in my paypal account anytime, Big Oil.

Anonymous Different T January 06, 2014 8:41 AM  

Off topic

pussytivereinforcement.com

any suggestions or ideas on the designs. Obviously the site looks like shit.

specifically, pussytivereinforcement.com/ww.jpg

Anonymous Steveo January 06, 2014 8:42 AM  

Don't worry, in the Oliver Stone movie of this Al Gore will be a hero.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni January 06, 2014 8:52 AM  

Aren't these people scientists who are supposed to know something about the extent of Antarctic ice? Isn't that their field of supposed expertise? What does it say about their level of knowledge and the efficacy of their models that they can't even predict far enough ahead to imagine they might be caught in sea ice for weeks? And to avoid that possibility? And then they presume to predict conditions for the whole world in 100 years and demand that everyone sacrifice because of what their models and their expertise show will certainly definitely happen?

Anonymous Anonymous January 06, 2014 8:54 AM  

C'mon now people, what are you going to believe? You're lying eyes, or SCIENCE?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 06, 2014 8:56 AM  

It should be easy for a smart hero like Al Gore to figure out which expedition members have been replaced by Things. Things don't act fully human: they recite global warmist propaganda with numbing arrogance and disregard for truth, collaborate to conceal what's really going on, and try to lure non-replaced humans into isolated situations where their resistance can be overcome by consensus.

Anonymous MendoScot January 06, 2014 9:07 AM  

I think you are on to something, there. Its no secrect that Vox Day's Blog is entirely financed by Big Oil.

Yeah, well my check appears to have been lost in the mail.

Vox, how do you want to handle Mutual Assistance? I posted a job possibility in Kentucky on the thread, but it looks to have mostly died out.

(The thread, not KY AFAIK)

Anonymous Harsh January 06, 2014 9:08 AM  

It's quite simple really. The polar ice caps are experiencing paraconsistent shrinking, so the warmists are still right.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan January 06, 2014 9:18 AM  

AlGore sold folks a big tale of woe,
He told us there'd soon be no snow,
While many were fooled,
The earth..well it cooled,
Now it's ass deep and twenty below.

Now we're snowed in - and it's twenty below

Blogger James Dixon January 06, 2014 9:23 AM  

Obviously it's all cis-warming.

Anonymous starr January 06, 2014 9:23 AM  

No no no you all have it wrong people, don't any of you listen to the news? When it is hot outside it is climate change, when it is cold it is just the weather. Understand? /sarcasm

Anonymous Cryan Ryan January 06, 2014 9:23 AM  

oops...an inconvenient truth.... my hands were so cold from stepping outside...
I prematurely hit the publish button with my frozen thumb ...must...get hot coffee...

Anonymous Stilicho January 06, 2014 9:24 AM  

It's quite simple really. The polar ice caps are experiencing paraconsistent shrinking, so the warmists are still right.

Cis-warming?

Anonymous MendoScot January 06, 2014 9:30 AM  

There is an effect - whose name escapes me at the moment - where unusual warmth in one hemisphere is reflected in unusual cold in the other. The Southern Cone is experiencing an unusual heat wave, just as you northeners are digging youselves out of the snow.

Still not helping the ice-breakers.

Anonymous MendoScot January 06, 2014 9:32 AM  

There is an effect - whose name escapes me at the moment - where unusual warmth in one hemisphere is reflected in unusual cold in the other. The Southern Cone is experiencing an unusual heat wave, just as you northeners are digging youselves out of the snow.

Still not helping the ice-breakers.

Anonymous Amir Larijani January 06, 2014 9:35 AM  

I could use some global warming--about 50F--right the hell now.

Anonymous MendoScot January 06, 2014 9:55 AM  

There is an effect - whose name escapes me at the moment - where unusual warmth in one hemisphere is reflected in unusual cold in the other. The Southern Cone is experiencing an unusual heat wave, just as you northeners are digging youselves out of the snow.

Still not helping the ice-breakers.

Anonymous sawtooth January 06, 2014 10:00 AM  

God really must have a sense of humor and as for the Christians among us; we must strive to be more Godlike in this regard.
That being considered, it beseeches us to take this debacle as a launching point to ridicule and laugh these global warming cultists off the stage. Humiliate them. Rub their sanctimonious faces in it. Dismiss their flimsy rationalizations.

The mainstream media will hope that this incident will quietly pass over in due time if they just mention it briefly and move on. Our local news paper neglected to point out that the original ship that got stuck in ice was full of climate change "scientists" studying the shrinking ice due to global warming!

( I so thankful that there are other outlets for news nowadays, other then that insipid "main stream"...media.)

Anonymous Brother Thoams January 06, 2014 10:10 AM  

You have to wonder, if we were under 5 feet of ice in the midwest, would they still believe? How many feet would it take for them to question global warming? 10, 15, 20 feet?

Anonymous Giraffe January 06, 2014 10:18 AM  

-22 F. - 46 wind chill. Car won't start. Kids are playing in the frost on the window. I need an icebreaker to get to work.

Anonymous Harsh January 06, 2014 10:21 AM  

Cis-warming?

Yes! Now you get it. I would have also accepted ~warming as an answer.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 06, 2014 10:44 AM  

Wait a minute! If these guys are rescuing us, who's rescuing THEM?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRd4qmnuc0&t=2m56s

Anonymous allyn71 January 06, 2014 10:44 AM  

The encore would be if the US Coast Guard icebreaker couldn't free the two stuck ships. With it being the height of summer in the Antarctic, if those ships aren't freed soon there is a chance that they might be stuck there for a lengthy spell.

Probably won't happen but I get a chuckle at the thought of those two ships trapped in ice for years as a testimonial.

Anonymous David of One January 06, 2014 10:55 AM  

So within the context of paraconsistency ... logic is convoluted to assert the opposite of observable empirical evidence?

On that basis, I suppose "scientific consensus" would be very intriguing indeed.

Anonymous Harsh January 06, 2014 11:01 AM  

So within the context of paraconsistency ... logic is convoluted to assert the opposite of observable empirical evidence?

My understanding is that in paraconsistent logic things can be both true and false.

Anonymous TWS January 06, 2014 11:05 AM  

First let me add some perspective and much needed dignity. Ha! Snowed in during summer!

Second, let me enjoy this moment. Ahhh that's good.

Third, fuck it. Since global warming means more ice we need to cool down to melt it. We just need to wait for winter for the ice to melt. And lets introduce polar bears and caraboo. Give the stone age decendants of the trapped scientists something to hunt and eat.

Anonymous David of One January 06, 2014 11:14 AM  

Harsh January 06, 2014 11:01 AM

So within the context of paraconsistency ... logic is convoluted to assert the opposite of observable empirical evidence?

My understanding is that in paraconsistent logic things can be both true and false.


Consequently, if everyone agreed paraconsistently then everyone could be correct. Wait till Congress starts applying paraconsistent legislation. Or are they already?

Anonymous Giraffe January 06, 2014 11:20 AM  

Wait till Congress starts applying paraconsistent legislation. Or are they already?

Obama is already applying legislation paraconsistently. For example, Obamacare is the law, Obama's "fixes" to it are illegal.
So we got that going for us.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 06, 2014 11:23 AM  

I won't stand for your thermo-normative rhetoric, you bigots. This is non-ciswarming, and it's hatespeech for you to insist that Global Warming has to be an increase in temperature. If Global Warming finds life more fullfilling as Global Freezing, then you have no right to criticize that choice.

Anonymous Josh January 06, 2014 11:46 AM  

If it's non cis warming, wouldn't that make it trans warming? Also the label of Global Warming is inherently thermonormative. Climate Change is the more inclusive term Global Warming and Global Cooling is just shaming language used by the thermonormative anti science denialists.

Anonymous Alexander January 06, 2014 11:54 AM  

It's really a shame that the science progs don't push global cooling instead of warming or generic change. Because then they could join the feminists and go around proclaiming that fat women are both sexy and, if you'll bear with me, the 'natural selection'.

Anonymous Giraffe January 06, 2014 11:57 AM  

Josh, you are getting a little too good at the left-speak.

Anonymous Alexander January 06, 2014 11:59 AM  

Who are you to judge how he identifies himself? Policist!!!!!

Blogger Some Guy January 06, 2014 12:00 PM  

@shills

"Don't worry, the lolbertarians have a picture that proves it was all a conspiracy. Where would we be without them."

What's it like to be both wrong, ignorant, and prideful at the same time? Oh wait, I was like that too when I was a teenager. Nevermind, carry on.

Anonymous sawtooth January 06, 2014 12:26 PM  

The thing that is simultaneously funny and galling about the global warming cult leaders is that altho they claim to care so much for the welfare of the "planet"; you just know that they are chomping at bit for the next heatwave.

A real crop killing, drought inducing scorcher would just fill their hearts with joy.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 06, 2014 12:50 PM  

Markku January 06, 2014 5:45 AM
Wrong pole.



if they can make up stupid shit, SO CAN WE.



shillsforthepowerful January 06, 2014 3:11 AM
Don't worry, the lolbertarians


i actually quite like this term. our mascot could be the french guard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY

our goal in life is to mock liberals mercilessly until they go away. does anyone have a cow?


Anonymous Pinakeli January 06, 2014 1:08 PM  

I read the other day that the ice and snow is consistent with the warming hypothesis.

The next line was something about they also will put water in the oven to make ice cubes.

Anonymous GSC January 06, 2014 1:28 PM  

"If the room you are sitting it had its CO2 raised from 400 ppm to 1000 ppm you wouldn't notice anything. Nothing at all. Your pulse wouldn't change; your respiration rate wouldn't change at all. The room would not get magically warmer. The thermal capacity wouldn't alter, the thermal inertia wouldn't alter, the thermal sensitivity/ spectral absorption would be immeasurably different in practical terms."

Thats because your room has only a 7ft ceiling and thus a poor analog of the real earth system --- while it it true that the three major bands of absorption of C02 are fairly well saturated, the density of the atmosphere changes with altitude as an a result there is significant re-emission and absorption --- causing a net increase in earth surface temperature. And don't forget the water vapor effect as well...at the high altitudes the water vapor effects fall off and the C02 density predominates. The temperature gradient of the upper atmosphere then changes and the radiation losses (temp ^4) can really kick in ... and don't also forget the time lag effect too...

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter January 06, 2014 3:04 PM  

Not just global warming:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/06/cherry-flavored-climapsychotamiflugate/#more-100609

Anonymous Anonymous January 06, 2014 3:07 PM  

The sea ice is declining...or maybe it isn't. The average temps are rising, or maybe they aren't. The jet stream is weakening...or maybe it isn't. The arctic ozone hole is making the sun more active...or maybe less. The weather is more extreme than it's ever been...or maybe it isn't. Regardless...have faith in AGW/CC - it is real.

Anonymous Anonymous January 06, 2014 3:10 PM  

All I know is that I went ice fishing on Saturday and there was 10 inches of ice on a lake that normally has 4-6 this time of year. The fishing was great. This is my foundational proof for why AGW is malarkey. Malarkey I say! Bring on the fish!

Blogger El Borak January 06, 2014 3:35 PM  

Starr: When it is hot outside it is climate change, when it is cold it is just the weather. Understand?

Yes, climate and weather are completely different things. Weather is the atmospheric conditions in which you live. Climate is what generates grants for scientists.

Blogger Duke of Earl January 06, 2014 4:06 PM  

I suppose we should be grateful for all this global warming.

Think how cold it would be without it. :-)

Jason

Anonymous Truth January 06, 2014 4:41 PM  

So stupid. Climate change is about average global temperature, not isolated bits of local weather.

Vox is incapable of seeing the big picture no matter what the topic.

Anonymous allyn71 January 06, 2014 5:23 PM  

"So stupid. Climate change is about average global temperature, not isolated bits of local weather" - Truth January 06, 2014 4:41 PM

So what is the average global temperature supposed to be Truth?

Anonymous sawtooth January 06, 2014 6:00 PM  

Great subject matter for a Hitler rant parody.

Anonymous wcu January 06, 2014 6:48 PM  

Truth- has there been an increase or decrease in global temperatures over the past 12-15 years? Yes, I require an answer per the blog's rules.

Anonymous Supernaut January 06, 2014 7:52 PM  

Science has already studied and observed the cyclical nature of the ice age cycles of the planet. Compare the observations of the Vostok ice core record of historical climate, which show a consistent, steady pattern of climate change over eons. It's all a cycle. No convoluted computer models or hockey stick graphs required to understand.

Global warming? Try END OF THE HOLOCENE.

End of the most recent Interglacial.

The Solar Grand Minimum has commenced with the flipping of the sun's magnetic poles and almost zero sunspot activity.

Ya'all think it's cold now? You 'aint seen nothing yet.

Winter is coming.

Blogger Unknown January 06, 2014 7:52 PM  

I don't have a strong opinion of this topic. However, I have seen some counterarguments from global warmists.

1. If you look at it from a long enough timeline, the earth IS getting warmer. Claiming that since there hasn't been an increase in temperature in the last 15 years, there hasn't been CC, is like saying that since it's been dark for 5 hours, the sun is out.

2. The arctic ice may have expanded it's surface area, but it has lost volume overall.

Anonymous sawtooth January 06, 2014 7:58 PM  

"Vox is incapable of seeing the big pitcher no matter what the topic."

I'd say that Vox sees big pitchers just fine as do other critics of liberal scams and power grabs.

This global climate cooling/warming/changing scam has all of the earmarks of another human elitist scheme for total population and mass lifestyle control and also for their own self enrichment. It's the same old desire to play God that dates back to the serpent tickling Eve's ear with it's forked tongue. Nothing new there.

Hope that's a big enough pitcher for you.










Anonymous Truth January 06, 2014 8:51 PM  

Oh no, I typed pitcher instead of picture. That must mean my point is wrong. Wait, no it doesn't. What it means is that you're relying on fallacy. Grow up.

wcu - The blog rules do not indicate that you personally must be answered. But the answer is yes, average temperatures have continued to climb over the past 12-15 years.

The common graphs shown by deniers are missing information. When that information is taken into account there has been no pause. However, if there were a pause for a 15 year period it clearly has little bearing on a planet that's millions of years old and whose climate cycles run across millenia.

Here's your references. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/12/16/global_warming_new_study_shows_pause_doesn_t_exist.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.2297/abstract

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 07, 2014 12:31 AM  

Truth: "However, if there were a pause for a 15 year period it clearly has little bearing on a planet that's millions of years old and whose climate cycles run across millenia."

That's not what the dogmatists of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming said.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 07, 2014 5:04 AM  

The common graphs shown by deniers are missing information. When that information is taken into account there has been no pause. However, if there were a pause for a 15 year period it clearly has little bearing on a planet that's millions of years old and whose climate cycles run across millenia.

Yep, we're back to the ol' Global Warming shell game. If recent trends go against the Warmingmongers, they claim that's just small sample size noise. But if their own "warming data" is just noise against the larger sample size of the last half-million years, they claim that doesn't matter because their data is recent. And if that doesn't work, then - like the article Truth linked to - they just lie.

No, no, really, temperatures are still getting warmer. Yup, un-huh, the Earth is still boiling. Never mind the last two years have been colder than anything any of us remember. Never mind the "melting" ice packs are expanding. Never mind -70 wind chill factors. Never mind that giant flaming ball of nuclear fusion in the sky that provides all the heat to Earth has been stuck on "low" for the last fifteen years. Never mind the demons from the 9th Circle of Hell in line to buy ice skates. Never mind all that, some twit with a made-up degree and a government grant is telling us we're wrong.

Stupid Daniel Fahrenheit and his "thermo-meter." He invented that, like, what, a hundred years ago or something. Who would believe some ancient device invented by a dead white guy when we have computer models?

Blogger Unknown January 07, 2014 5:35 AM  

"Never mind the "melting" ice packs are expanding."

On the surface. How can you claim that as an argument if the volume overall decreased.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 07, 2014 6:23 AM  

How can you claim that as an argument if the volume overall decreased.

Because those "facts" are most likely made up lies. Seriously, why should anyone believe any "data" that comes out of the AGW camp these days? They have a credibility problem, born of too many fabricated and cherry-picked datasets. Besides that, it doesn't even make sense. What logical mechanism would cause ice caps to expand horizontally but shrink vertically? Is the massive weight of all the CO2 we've pumped into the atmosphere squashing the ice caps, flattening them out like a short order fry cook mashing the hamburgers on his griddle?

No, glaciers don't work that way. It's the weight of the ice itself - the thickness of it - that causes it to spread. That and colder temperatures at the margins that allow more ice to accumulate year-over-year. The only real mechanism that would have thinner but wider ice caps would be decreased polar precipitation accompanied by decreased circumpolar temperatures. Less snow falls on the ice cap, but more water freezes around the edge. Less rainfall is actually resonably consistent with lower temperatures. But either way, whether the volume is increasing or decreasing, the temperature is decreasing and we don't have global warming.

Regarding the other "fact" you cited, that the recent 15 year "global coldening" is just a blip of no significance compared to a hundred-plus year warming trend, well, great. Go back 500,000 years and you'll see that the recent warming trend is just a blip of no significance in the half-million year history of temperature swings. In fact, it's pretty consistent with a common repeating cycle. Nothing unusual about it at all. You can't just start your dataset where it's convenient to your argument - that's more of the cherry-picking I was talking about. But that's exactly what Warmingmongers do. They start their data at the end of the Little Ice Age when the Thames regularly froze over (and so did the Delaware. You've seen that painting of George Washington crossing the Delaware with ice chunks floating by, right?) They ignore the previous Mideaval Warm Period, when temperatures were higher than they were in 1998 at the most recent peak. It was warm enough for the Vikings to establish colonies on Greenland, but then things got colder and the colonies were frozen out and failed.

Then after things got colder for a while, they got warmer again. And then, fifteen years ago, it looks like (unfortunately) after getting warmer for a while they started getting colder again.

I've said before, freaking out about temperatures rising from ~1820 to 1998 is like some noob standing on the seashore watching the tide come in and screaming we're all gonna drown.

Relax kid, the tide will go back out.

Anonymous CLK January 07, 2014 8:51 AM  

There is no argument that overall the earth surface temperature is increasing at least within the time frame that can be measured. Yes there are many examples of extreme cold (like what we see right now in the US) and some winters with lots more snow but that does not prove that overall the earths temperature hasn't gone up.

There is no argument that in the last 300 years the CO2 ppm has gone up. Its is believed (and has been shown pretty strongly) that the increase in CO2 is due to human activities. The time lag of the CO2 cycle makes determining the exact source of this CO2 more difficult.

There are plausible analysis/model showing how increases in CO2 ppm "can" result in increased temperatures ... but I don't think it is completely proven science as being the sole or only cause of the measured increase in earths temperature. The earth is a complex system with multiple feedback loops - both positive and negative.

There are certainly other factors (like the sun output intensity) that could be driving this increase in temperature over the sort of time periods we are measuring ( the sun is often treated as constant but reality it that there are changes over short time periods 10-100's years and certainty there is stellar evolution at the extreme.) --- I have always wondered how CO2 solubility in seawater changes with temperature (or other parameters) and whether its possible an increase in solar input could cause a decrease solubility and thus an increase CO2 ppm in the atmosphere.

I have not seem whether an increase in temperature is good or bad ... I think there's a lot of work to be done on the economics of global warming (hint VD) -- that really where the work needs to be done IMHO. When I was a young lad snow was 6ft high every year... now in NE I have seen winters with little snow ... not being a skier I love the global warming if it keeps me from having to commute in the snow... and as I get older, easier to shovel.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 07, 2014 12:11 PM  

You say there is no argument, but you are observably wrong. There is indeed argument, you simply ignore the people who disagree with you. Don't be surprised when the favor is returned.

Anonymous Truth January 07, 2014 7:09 PM  

What deniers say when faced with hard evidence.

"Because those "facts" are most likely made up lies. Seriously, why should anyone believe any "data" that comes out of the AGW camp these days?"


"There is no argument that overall the earth surface temperature is increasing at least within the time frame that can be measured."

Yes, there's arguments. There's data. There's hard, verified science.

Anonymous Jack Amook January 07, 2014 8:53 PM  

Again Truth, why should anyone believe your data? You've been caught fabricating it. That by itself doesn't mean you're wrong, just that you have no credibility. You understand the difference, right?

Anonymous The CronoLink January 07, 2014 9:23 PM  

Nope, you're wrong, Truth.

Anonymous Truth January 07, 2014 11:13 PM  

I gave you the references. The science is done. Where have I fabricated anything? If you're only reason for not believing in global warming is "you're a liar" then you've lost all logical basis for your belief.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 08, 2014 6:12 AM  

I gave you the references. The science is done. Where have I fabricated anything?

"You" means "your side of the argument." Past "science" done by the folks on your side has very frequently turned out to be fabricated and cherry-picked. Hockey Stick graphs, tree core samples, carefully selected temperature reporting stations, missing raw data, dubious "adjustments"...

The list is a long one. With that sort of track record, why should I believe any "scientific" paper you link to? Why should I not assume your "evidence" is bald-faced lies and misrepresentations? See, here's the problem for you AGW enthusiasts. You've blown your credibility. You're the boy who cried wolf. So even if there is a wolf prowling around the woods right now, nobody believes you any more. If Global Warming is a real threat to the planet, gee, sorry bub, but it'll have to be some other group of people who save us all because your pack of opportunists squandered any trust you ever had.

Best thing the Michael Mann AGW crowd could do if you really honestly think GW is a danger is to STFU about it for a generation and then try re-introducing it by telling the truth instead of chasing grant money and tv coverage of petty power over people's lives. And hope nobody remembers who you were.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 08, 2014 7:07 PM  

It's not only the bogus stuff that was published, but what was never published. The CAGW supporters were (and probably still are) killing the careers and stifling the potential publications of their "denialist" opponents. We've seen the emails.

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