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Sunday, January 26, 2014

The phony Dark Enlightenment

As I have previously noted, I don't buy into this Dark Enlightenment nonsense. And these comparisons should suffice to demonstrate the absurdity that Nick Land, a British philsopher of whom I had literally never heard before, is any sort of leader, intellectual or otherwise, of a coherent movement.

Now, Alexa is very far from reliable, but the sheer scale of the differences indicates what a more accurate traffic metric would likely show. First look at the two individuals who have been mentioned by the leftists as leaders of this dangerous Dark Enlightenment.

Nick Land (xenosystems.net)
Global 658,815, USA 268,030

Moldbug
Global 882,792, USA 279,490

Pretty influential, are they not? Now let's look at some of the others who are more or less well-regarded throughout the non-mainstream Right.

Steve Sailer
Global 161,960, USA 38,356  

Roissy/Heartiste
Global 29,405, USA 10,307

Vox Day
Global 31,286, USA 4,969  

Fred Reed
Global 313,779, USA 84,841

The so-called Dark Enlightenment is just another fantasy media "trend", about as credible as the New York Times annual stories on junior high school sex rings.

Labels:

88 Comments:

Anonymous ck January 26, 2014 9:24 AM  

you don't believe in a Catholic Restoration of a U.S. Monarchy... led by PUAs and obscure nerdy bloggers?

Vox Day = The Cathedral

Blogger Random January 26, 2014 10:30 AM  

Would that really be so much more unbelievable than a 2000 year old church with a billion members built on an impetuous fisherman with questionable social skills?

Anonymous Red Comet January 26, 2014 10:31 AM  

What seems to be a trend among the media when they're doing another story about the Game scene/Dark Enlightenment (they use those and related terms more or less interchangeably) is that they always present some front man that no one has ever heard of.

I think Roosh was the closest they ever got to a legit high traffic guy.

Anonymous PA January 26, 2014 10:36 AM  

It's not just the raw numbers, but how these ideas filter up to the bigger media.

Anonymous ck January 26, 2014 10:41 AM  

moldbug = jesus, eh? well, both are jews...

Anonymous Erik January 26, 2014 10:41 AM  

The leftist reporting is bullshit, and the Dark Enlightenment is currently small and incoherent, but yet I think you're dismissing it a little wrongly.

First: MPAI, and the Dark Enlightenment isn't aiming at idiots.
Second: The DE is opposed to democracy and similar forms of popular government, and you're judging it by popularity.
Third: The DE is not in harmony with the taste of the present times.
(These may be three views on one point.)

Blogger Random January 26, 2014 10:42 AM  

ck, the fisherman is St. Peter, not Jesus.

Blogger Carl January 26, 2014 10:45 AM  

The Dark Enlightenment is a tiny internet fringe movement. That is intentional. Moldbug rarely updates, and the classic posts from 2007 that lay out his ideas are of a length to discourage all but the most determined of readers. Moldbug is a little like Socrates. He says provocative things that he may or may not actually believe, but he always force you to think. He shakes off the blinders and points out how the game is rigged. His positive vision of government, which Moldbug calls neocameralism, may be absurd, but he is at his best destroying our preconceptions.

Nick Land is now highly influential in the DEsphere, but I've been reading Moldbug since 2007 and I had never heard of him before his series that coined the term. Land writes in an obscure, referential, academic, philosophical style that is repellent to those of middling intelligence. He is a central figure in the DE, but not a leader per se, since there is little that unites the movement except for dissatisfaction with the Cathedral (ie. the media/academic/scientific/bureaucratic/government nexus that is the unorganized conspiracy that runs the world).

Fundamentally, Dark Enlightenment is not about being popular; it's about being right. It's about understanding the way the world actually works, as opposed to how we've been told it works. It's about figuring out how we got here and trying to figure out where we can go and how we could possibly get there. That might be monarchy; there are many other possibilities, but none have the historical grounding of monarchy.

I believe you self-describe as a Christian libertarian heretic, Vox. Many, if not most, of the DE members came to it via libertarianism, but realized how baseless many libertarian assumptions are when you have a better understanding of human nature. You may not be in any direct way connected to the DE, but your libertarian heresies are the same type of heresies promulgated by the DE writers. Basically, you made similar enemies and thereby got lumped in during the attack.

Anonymous paradox January 26, 2014 10:51 AM  

Obviously DE is nerdy with metaphorical appeals to the Darkside of the Force and the Matrix. It's a catchall phrase for all the ideas the ̶C̶a̶t̶h̶e̶d̶r̶a̶l̶ ̶ (should be relabeled to Temple) doesn't like. DE is the political equivalent to a high school geek clique.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 10:51 AM  

You may not be in any direct way connected to the DE, but your libertarian heresies are the same type of heresies promulgated by the DE writers.

My point is that no one is connected to the DE. Nick Land doesn't influence any of the writers listed in the Map of the Dark Enlightenment that I happen to know. He's not "highly influential", indeed, he's not influential at all insofar as I can see. He's considerably less influential than Roissy, that much is obvious.

For all I know of Land, the media is simply pulling their old trick of having two Democrats on the show to debate the Democratic-Republican divide. It looks rather like National Review, a false opposition meant to draw support away from the real opposition.

Anonymous jack January 26, 2014 10:55 AM  

Dark Enlightenment: I read this as a mechanism of the dark lord; lord of the earth, enemy of good.
I try to never forget that national socialism [nazi] started in a beer hall with a few fanatics. It scares me.
Also, the great good of early Christianity started with a few desert, so called radicals at the time, of a minor roman province.
Somehow, it seems, that often, the great movements creep in unannounced. Reminds me of a Bible verse that talks about 'like thieves in the night'

Anonymous ck January 26, 2014 10:57 AM  

ok.. moldbug = peter, same joke... cause moldbug is a jew

Blogger Doom January 26, 2014 11:04 AM  

I don't know. I would put their efforts up there with modern academia, politics, and obamacare ads. Yeah, okay. Hush.

Anonymous Randy M January 26, 2014 11:10 AM  

"It looks rather like National Review, a false opposition meant to draw support away from the real opposition."

Well, that certainly sounds like the reactionary guys. Granted you've been saying it at least as long as them.

Anonymous ck January 26, 2014 11:17 AM  

i also find it hilarious to see the Cathlolic Monarchist faction attempting to purge non-monarchists...

PUAs + "traditional Catholics" + jewish troll-bloggers + movementarian purges... comedy gold!

Anonymous Erik January 26, 2014 11:17 AM  

Since a few people like ck and paradox are mocking it, I suppose I might give a brief introduction to the idea of "the Cathedral" as used by the dark enlightenment/neoreactionary types, so people can at least mock the idea correctly:

-it's obvious why Harvard, Yale, and Black Celebrity Academy would teach very similar physics: there's only one applicable physics, as far as we know, and getting your physics wrong will prominently come back to bite you in the ass if your bridge doesn't stay up (substitute similar accident where appropriate).
-it's not as obvious why Harvard, Yale, and Black Celebrity Academy would teach very similar racial grievance studies (or other leftist bullshit of your choice, such as sexual degeneracy): there are a million grievances to be had, many of them contradictory, and grievances rarely encounter reality checks. (Sexual degeneracy only slowly gets crushed by reality as the raunchy college students wonder how they ended up being 50 year old cat ladies, and the abortionettes breed themselves out of existence.)
-so there probably is a coordination mechanism keeping the leftist hivemind all on the same page
-but there doesn't seem to be any single figure dictating the premises of grievance-mongering to Harvard, Yale, and Black Celebrity Academy
-therefore we figure it's a distributed or decentralized coordination mechanism, with a lot of people working in it, telling people what to think by inches.
That is the Cathedral: the joint function of uncounted Marxoid professors, Pajama Boys, Occupy retards, journalists providing favorable coverage for Occutards, comedians unworthy of the title who get their laughs by going "Republicans stupid!" and so forth, who appear to be unintuitively cooperative and supportive of one another.
(The Cathedral is so named because it is not the Bazaar, it speaks ex cathedra, and it issues moral proclamations.)

Anonymous nydwracu January 26, 2014 11:18 AM  

Establishing value by counting heads: that sounds familiar. isn't there a word for that? I wonder if it's ever been tried as a mechanism of governance...

Anonymous Northern Refugee January 26, 2014 11:19 AM  

Vox,

I think the DE, such as it is, serves a valuable purpose. I am new to this "movement", having started at VDare and Isteve, from which I found your site. I think it is increasingly obvious that modern liberal democracy, with its universal suffrage and welfare state, is doomed. When lesbian academics like Camile Paglia write articles about our civilization committing suicide, you know this awareness is starting to reach critical mass. The question remains, what comes next? The purpose of the DE, alt right, or whatever you want to call it, is to jumpstart discussions on alternative systems of political organization.

Anonymous Axe Head January 26, 2014 11:24 AM  

Call it the Dork Enlightenment. A lot of these guys, like Nick Land, Jim Donald, Annisimov, are technology fetishists. Or call it the Sperg Enlightenment, a lot are libertarian.

Re: Cathedral. Why the anti-Christian coloring? Jewish involvement. They never mention the Jewish Elephant in the room. It's always Christianity...

Anonymous jack January 26, 2014 11:29 AM  

@Erik: The Bazaar.
Ok, its a slow morning. What is the Bazaar, here? I'm curious; And, my thinking is still trying to wake up.

Anonymous jack January 26, 2014 11:30 AM  

Oh, Erick. Should have mentioned. Other than a definition [yours] of the Bazaar, I kinda liked the other stuff you wrote.

Blogger Carl January 26, 2014 11:33 AM  

Erik, another reason for using Cathedral is because of its religious nature, which is a poke at the supposed secularism of the ruling ideology. We live in an atheocracy that is explicitly opposed to religion, but actually promotes a secular ideology intended to fulfill all the same social and moral roles as the Catholic church at its height.

Anonymous kgaard January 26, 2014 11:40 AM  

I too came across Nick Land via his 10-part Dark Enlightenment series last summer. I thought it was spectacular. One of the best things I had read in a long time. I urge everyone to read it. I have been following Nick ever since. Very high-quality debate on his site. I don't find him to be spergy or a tech fetishist.

Anonymous x January 26, 2014 11:43 AM  

Nick Land and Moldbug are only "mind-blowing" to people who haven't read any books written between 4000 BC and 1952 AD.

Anonymous jay c January 26, 2014 11:46 AM  

So a reporter latched onto a couple of nobodies, picked a catchy name, and got all the details wrong. What else is new? I've never heard of Land or Moldbug either, but does that mean this movement doesn't exist? Setting aside the reporter's misdefinition and use of a name originally intended to describe a subset of ideas to describe the whole, it looks pretty real to me.

Anonymous T14 January 26, 2014 11:46 AM  

Dark Enlightenment, Sith Lords, redditors - these guys need a better marketing team. Sounds like a bunch of sexually frustrated narrow-chests.

Blogger JACIII January 26, 2014 11:47 AM  

DE looks to be nothing more than handy nomenclature for the inevitable bubbling-up effect produced by the confluence of an open worldwide accessibility of information and the inclination and ability of a few verbally prolific folk actually compiling, investigating, and considering said information with an eye toward testing the verisimilitude of the pervasive progressive canon.

The truth will out.

Whether DE is a movement or just folks noticing things in a way common the all of mankind's history (plus access to world-spanning, instant publishing) remains to be seen.

Anonymous Erik January 26, 2014 11:51 AM  

@Erik: The Bazaar.
Ok, its a slow morning. What is the Bazaar, here? I'm curious; And, my thinking is still trying to wake up.

It's a reference to the essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", ( http://www.unterstein.net/su/docs/CathBaz.pdf ) where Eric Raymond contrasts the "Cathedral" model of development (top-down, centralized, occasional mass change proclamations) with the "Bazaar" model (bottom-up, decentralized, frequent small tweaks). A brief selection:

" I believed that the most important software (operating systems and really large tools like the Emacs programming editor) needed to be built like cathedrals, carefully crafted by individual wizards or small bands of mages working in splendid isolation, with no beta to be released before its time.
Linus Torvalds's style of development—release early and often, delegate everything you can, be open to the point of promiscuity—came as a surprise. No quiet, reverent cathedral-building here—rather, the Linux community seemed to resemble a great babbling bazaar of differing agendas and approaches (aptly symbolized by the Linux archive sites, who'd take submissions from anyone) out of which a coherent and stable system could seemingly emerge only by a succession of miracles."


Re: Cathedral. Why the anti-Christian coloring? Jewish involvement. They never mention the Jewish Elephant in the room. It's always Christianity...
Jews are overrepresented in the Cathedral leadership, yes, same as they were overrepresented in the Communist leadership, but I don't think it's a Jewish conspiracy. Jews are an intellectual sort of people who will usually be overrepresented in the leadership of anything because they are good at lawyering and talking their way into power, and if you were to become King of America by a miracle tomorrow, I expect your court would also have a disproportionate amount of Jews compared to the general population.
Jews have been breeding for lawyering for thousands of years - in the really old days, 13-year-old Jews had to know enough religious terminology to lead a worship service at their bar mitzvah or they'd get kicked out of the tribe, and in more recent old days, they weren't allowed to be bakers or smiths across much of Europe but they were allowed to be moneylenders and lawyers. Stupid Jews got purged. Smart Jews (and those Jews good at sucking up) became court physicians. Modern Jews are descended from the latter, and hence are the sort of people who will fit in at court.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben January 26, 2014 12:14 PM  

Why are you bashing these bloggers when it appears you haven't read them?

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 26, 2014 12:14 PM  

The Dark Enlightenment is certainly interesting.

If you read some of the DE sites you'll see how much influence White Nationalism has made on these people.

As someone on another blog commented, the DE is just a pit-stop on the way to full-blown WNism.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 12:17 PM  

Why are you bashing these bloggers when it appears you haven't read them?

How is denying their nonexistent influence over people who haven't read them equivalent to bashing them? It's not Nick Land's fault that some random left-leaning journalists latched onto him instead of, I don't know, Mike Florio. At least, I don't think it's his fault.

If they had pointed to me instead, I'd call BS on it too.

Anonymous gwood January 26, 2014 12:20 PM  

So, DE is Burkean reaction to modernity plus some techniques on how to nail hot chicks?

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 12:21 PM  

Jews are overrepresented in the Cathedral leadership, yes, same as they were overrepresented in the Communist leadership, but I don't think it's a Jewish conspiracy. Jews are an intellectual sort of people who will usually be overrepresented in the leadership of anything because they are good at lawyering and talking their way into power, and if you were to become King of America by a miracle tomorrow, I expect your court would also have a disproportionate amount of Jews compared to the general population.

That's ridiculous. Jews are overrepresented because they are among the most ruthlessly tribalistic and nepotistic people in the world, up there with the Han Chinese and the Japanese. And statistically, they're not even as smart as Episcopalians.

They don't dominate journalism because they are smarter or more verbal or because their great-great-great grandfathers were persecuted in Europe, but because they have a very strong hiring bias for their own kind. Wondering why there are a disproportionate number of Jews in a field is like wondering why Denny Green just happened to have more black assistant coaches than the NFL average.

Is it a conspiracy? No, it's just a strong commitment to group nepotism. I wouldn't even have a problem with that if they didn't also actively lobby for laws preventing other groups from doing the same.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 26, 2014 12:21 PM  

I have to give a 'shout out' to all the Hive hacks who think that by writing about the Dark Enlightenment they are somehow exposing some evil nazi conspiracy.

By writing these pieces, they are letting white readers know that there are other whites who think like them.

In a way, it is a sort of community-building exercise, although I'm sure that's not what they intended.

Even Vox's comments above are likely to encourage some intellectually-curious, potentially sympathetic readers to check out the DE.

Anonymous SkepticalCynical January 26, 2014 12:21 PM  

I think Land views himself as an intellectual leader, but he doesn't seem to do much of the heavy intellectual lifting of the neoreaction types. He is prolific, and a main promoter of a "DE movement", so it's easy to see why reporters tend to quote him. Moldbug, Annisimov, Handle, Donald have produced more interesting and original work, but I doubt any of them are much concerned with their Alexa rankings.

It's not hard to understand why Roissy et. al. are much more widely read. Roissy's ideas really will get you laid. Moldbug's may or may not get you a stable, competent government able to defend a good society against leftist ratchets.

Anonymous Max January 26, 2014 12:22 PM  

Establishing value by counting heads: that sounds familiar. isn't there a word for that? I wonder if it's ever been tried as a mechanism of governance...

Legitimate lol.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 12:24 PM  

If you read some of the DE sites you'll see how much influence White Nationalism has made on these people.

Just wait until you see what 10 more years of multiculturalism does. It's going to be amusing to see people who formerly prided themselves on "not seeing color" screaming for forced ethnic cleansing.

Of course, I have a morbid sense of humor. Your mileage may vary.

Anonymous Max January 26, 2014 12:25 PM  

@VD though, I'd prefer it if you quit posting stupid stuff and went back to posting less stupid stuff. Thanks!

Anonymous Erik January 26, 2014 12:26 PM  

VD: I'll buy that Jews are nepotistic, but that doesn't seem to suffice to explain various other things like Jewish overrepresentation among Nobel laureates (something like 1/4th of the hard science Nobels - disregard the Peace and Literature prizes) or chess grandmasters that look far more like there's an intelligence effect.

If they're no smarter than episcopalians on average, maybe Jews have a much fatter tail distribution?

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 12:26 PM  

I think Land views himself as an intellectual leader, but he doesn't seem to do much of the heavy intellectual lifting of the neoreaction types. He is prolific, and a main promoter of a "DE movement", so it's easy to see why reporters tend to quote him.

Looks like my instincts were right. So he's a self-promoter. Lovely. (rolls eyes) On the other hand, it's probably a good sign that the self-promoters want to latch onto it. Just don't actually try to follow them anywhere....

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 12:29 PM  

If they're no smarter than episcopalians on average, maybe Jews have a much fatter tail distribution?

Could be. But if you're going to cite prizes, I'd want to look carefully at who is giving them out. I mean, Paul Krugman has a quasi-Nobel. So, that's not a metric indicative of intellectual genius, in my opinion.

Anonymous Erik January 26, 2014 12:35 PM  

I wasn't thinking of economics as serious either. Lemme list the ones I do consider "hard science":
Medicine - 28% Jews
Physics - 26% Jews
Chemistry - 19% Jews

Something is going on here that nepotism doesn't seem to explain.

Anonymous Inane Rambler January 26, 2014 12:51 PM  

Actually, Neoreaction is a subset of the "Dark Enlightenment," and I think Roissy has a hand in coining that term. FWIW you've been included under it. See: http://habitableworlds.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/darkenlightenment2.png

Although you've seen that before. Personally I consider "Neoreactionary Political Philosophy" and "Techno-Commercialists/Futurists" to be "Neoreaction."

Anonymous Inane Rambler January 26, 2014 12:52 PM  

Also Less Wrong does not belong on that map, so it does call it into question.

Anonymous Red January 26, 2014 1:08 PM  

Jews are talked about in DE circles but with an eye on avoiding the Jews are responsible for everything vibe. Something about virulent anti-semitism kills higher brain function.

DE isn't a political movement. There's some new people in their ranks who want to make it one, but it's not happening. If you want to be part of the next big political movement, nationalistic movements are the place to be.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 26, 2014 1:32 PM  

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win".

At the risk of drawing unpleasant comparisons, in 1923 you could have fit every believer in National Socialism into a beer hall; ten years later they were running their country. in 1907, the idea that Vladimir Lenin would be the ruler of Russia a decade hence would have been regarded as lunacy. In 1964, almost nobody would or could have predicted the utter transformation that American society would have experienced in the next decade. Sometimes things change faster than you'd think, and Normalcy Bias is a harsh mistress.

Using Alexa ranks to make this point is kind of like standing in 1964 and trying to prove that the left would never take over in America by using sales numbers for Bob Dylan albums or book sales of The One-Dimensional Man. At the time it would have seemed a reasonable metric.

Anyhow, I'll agree to this extent: I don't think there's *one* Neo-Reaction. But that's a good thing - actual thinkers disagree with each other; they are not herd animals who think what they think because it's trendy, or because their parents passed down those beliefs to them, or because television told them what to think, which is how most people get their belief systems. All of the above-mentioned writers have points at which I agree with them, and at which I disagree with them. In a time in which every mainstream mode of thought seems to be exhausted for ideas, it's exciting to be in a space where there's creativity, and disagreement, and exchanges of new and forbidden ideas.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 26, 2014 1:33 PM  

"Nick Land and Moldbug are only "mind-blowing" to people who haven't read any books written between 4000 BC and 1952 AD."

You'd be shocked how high a percentage of the public that is.

Anonymous Gx1080 January 26, 2014 1:48 PM  

Dark Enlightment is the kind of name that you get from people whose entire cultural frame is based on movies. In other words, a very dorky name.

That said, I always thought that this culture (movement implies direction), for lack of a better name, could be described as Alt-Right. And, if this culture has a center, is probably Roissy. He's the one writer that I see everybody mention. On a different degree, Steve Sailer.

Ivy League: Is obvious that Ivy Leagues is where people go to learn to be the faithful servants of the Goverment/Big Business Leviathan, which is why the place breeds politicians.

Blogger RobertT January 26, 2014 1:54 PM  

Despite what people write about them, real movements are populist movements that grow from the ground up on their own power. By the time they're large enough to consider them a threat, they're too large to kill. Thus it was with the original Republican Party. Thus it was with the Nazis. Thus it was with the Tea Party. Thus it will ever be. Something is happening in the U.S. right now. Hopefully, whatever it is, the destruction will be halted. Or perhaps it's wishful thinking and too ephemeral to be real.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 2:05 PM  

Using Alexa ranks to make this point is kind of like standing in 1964 and trying to prove that the left would never take over in America by using sales numbers for Bob Dylan albums or book sales of The One-Dimensional Man. At the time it would have seemed a reasonable metric.

You're missing the point. I am not using it to make the point, I am using it to underline my point that the so-called leaders are not leaders and the so-called influential people are not influencing the very people they are supposed to be influencing.

I am supposedly one of the 30+ Dark Enlightenment figures. I had never heard of Nick Land and while I have read Moldbug, he is not an intellectual influence. If you must make the Nazi comparison, it's like claiming Hitler was an influence on Disraeli. It's just hopelessly wrong. Frankly, Land sounds like a johnny-come-lately.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 2:07 PM  

if this culture has a center, is probably Roissy. He's the one writer that I see everybody mention. On a different degree, Steve Sailer.

Agreed. The so-called movement is nothing more than a collection of those who reject the Pretty Little Lies and insist upon Noticing the Obvious.

Anonymous John January 26, 2014 2:17 PM  

At its most basic, DE is just a new moniker to the natural reaction to the false egalitarian religion that has been the dominant narrative for over 50 years. To believe that all groups are equal also means buying into 'Whites are the cause for black/brown failure', and Whites are becoming quite sick of the obviously false narrative.

The obvious downside to increased diversity (to leftists) is the awakening that happens to the formerly naive about just what happens when diversity is up close and personal, as opposed to the theoretical equality that they were able to imagine from a distance.

When enough people no longer feel cowed by the 'racism' label, the real fun will start. We may be within 10 years of that.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 26, 2014 2:33 PM  

@VD

Ah, I think I see what you're getting at.

That said, the Neo-Reaction, for all of its rejection of modernist social teaching, is a 21st century movement, and should be organized on 21st century lines. Perhaps it doesn't need a center, at least not for the short- and medium-term. For now, being distributed and decentralized may be a net positive. For myself personally, I'm not looking for a "leader" of the movement right now. Not at this stage.

And yes, I agree with you, I had never heard of this Nick Land character until a couple of weeks ago, in a mainstream media anti-Neo-Reaction hit piece that named him as our leader. Which leads us to another important point: Never let your enemies define who you are.

As for Roissy, I read him, but I have my own problems with him and all new-right "Game" theorists. I just don't see the point in rebelling against modern man, with his inability to control his emotions or restrain his baser urges, by becoming a parody of him. And yes, I hate the state of modern women, but use of "Game" to get laid a lot seems like simple revenge against them, with one's dick as the weapon of choice. It all seems rather petty and nihilistic to me. And doomed to fail - I simply don't see how we get to Chesterton or Carlyle by acting like Lord Byron.

Anonymous Jason Roberts January 26, 2014 2:39 PM  

I am shocked Sailer's Alexa rating is that low when it's clear that several opinion writers at the New York Times read him.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 26, 2014 2:48 PM  

Speaking of which, Volokh just got picked up by the Washington Post, so it's obvious that some people are paying attention.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 2:53 PM  

I am shocked Sailer's Alexa rating is that low when it's clear that several opinion writers at the New York Times read him.

They don't cite him or link to him. Because BadThought.

Anonymous Josh January 26, 2014 3:37 PM  

Nick Land and Moldbug are only "mind-blowing" to people who haven't read any books written between 4000 BC and 1952 AD.

Teenagers always think that they were the first ones to invent sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

OpenID cailcorishev January 26, 2014 3:41 PM  

By writing these pieces, they are letting white readers know that there are other whites who think like them.

Which is why they pick people they think will be representative enough of the culture that they can be used to scare the public, while not being influential enough to create more converts than they scare off. You won't see them openly discussing a guy like Sailer (let alone interviewing him and giving him the mic) because he comes up with too many winning points and puts them in terms that the average middle-American can understand and start thinking, "Hey, yeah..."

The so-called movement is nothing more than a collection of those who reject the Pretty Little Lies and insist upon Noticing the Obvious.

And we're not even in agreement on what the Pretty Little Lies are, or which are most important. I think The Misandry Bubble makes a pretty good case that misandry is the ruling lie of the day, the foundation of everything else that's going wrong. But there are major figures in the "movement" who don't even get what it is or why it matters. For all that they want to stick one big label on us all so they can dismiss us all as racist/sexist/whateverist, it actually is a pretty big tent, an assortment of tents in the same field, actually -- a big enough field that no one really knows who else is in it.

Anonymous Randy M January 26, 2014 3:43 PM  

"Agreed. The so-called movement is nothing more than a collection of those who reject the Pretty Little Lies and insist upon Noticing the Obvious."

That's what the term Dark Enlightenment pretty much refers to. Neo-reaction is a group of hobby political theorists who propose various alternatives to the system that constructed the lies to obscure the obvious. Personally I find several interesting (especially Foseti & Radish) but I'm worried that in many cases they may be anti-christian rather than simply using metaphors, in which case I couldn't ally and haven't near so much use for them.

Neoreaction could be said to have leaders, but the Dark Enlightenment more broadly conceived would not by and large have the same leaders, if it could be said to be coherent enough to really have any at all, as VD points out.

Blogger Whiskey January 26, 2014 5:32 PM  

Vox, if you believe Steve Sailer and his citing of Harpending and Cochran and the guy from the IQ of Nations Lynn, then Ashkenazi Jews average 115 IQ, highest; then NE Asians at 105; then NW Europeans at 100; then Hispanics at 88, then Black Americans at 85, then West Africans at 70; then Bushmen and Australian Aborigines at 60 both.

This data seems overall very robust. While there have been criticisms about methodology and various absolute scores of population averages, that Ashkenazi (as opposed to Sephardic) Jews are among the smartest populations in the world is something no serious social scientist would dispute. Sailer in particular has made this point over and over again.

So yes, Jews who are Ashkenazi are SIGNFICANTLY SMARTER than Episcopalians.

However, Smartness can be a trap. One that Jews and other smart, White population sets find themselves inside with no way out.

Hillary Clinton is not President today because she supported an Anti-White agenda. Which surprise put a REAL non-White, anti-White Black man in the White House instead of a rich White poorly closeted Lesbian (if you believe the National Enquirer) in the White House by transforming America into part of Mexico and Trinidad and Tobago.

Its called too clever by half. High IQ populations tend to fall prey to what Bruce Charlton called the "clever sillies." Examples of this is the fervent belief by the much higher IQ population of the New England Colonies in Witchcraft as a threat direct from Satan, whereas the relatively lower IQ populations of Tidewater Virginia did not care and never punished witches. [Half the aristocracy was into divination anyway.]

Blogger Whiskey January 26, 2014 5:32 PM  

Cont'd:

Jewish myopia prevented mass evacuation from Europe when it was still possible: 1934-38. Continued Jewish myopia prevented a Samson response to the Holocaust, the only thing that might have saved **SOME** Jews by fighting an all out urban combat ground war that tied up Stalingrad style the Nazi armor and tanks. Jewish foolishness for a non-Jewish religion of Post Christianity, the Crystal Methodism of religion, which elevates White Original Sin and Black redemption, has made France a country where Jews must exit. Because the nation is filled with Blacks and Muslims who all hate Jews more than any other White group. Dieudonne is popular because he hates and mocks Jews. Which taps into what Black and Muslims inside France really feel. Also Blacks in England.

Jews are totally absent from the military (the traditional and proven path to power), have abandoned sciences in the last twenty years (Jews have not entered it) and are concentrated in banking, the media, law, and government, all very risky enterprises when dramatic changes take place unlike military skills and science. Witness Eric Prince, former head of Blackwater, who now is running an African logistics firm for ... China. Military/logistics know-how does not grow on trees. It is not a simple thing to get a ten million dollar turbine from Mombasa port to say, the middle of Sudan where that big dam is being built across the Nile.

Anti-Jewish criticism of Jews as a massive conspiracy is wrong because there is no conspiracy to BWahhhahahahaha! rule the world, Jews are typical of high IQ populations falling prey to idiot religions just like the Clintons and other WASP types. Rather Jewish concentration in just a few, "fragile" institutions not resilient to big economic/political change and enthusiasm for non-Whites everywhere is a wider symptom of High IQ Whites having no meaning inside traditional religion and having a delusion of Utopian Society in the here and now.

The Shakers, Oneida Community, Marxism, PC/Diversity, all seek to replace God's Kingdom of Heaven with one explicitly on Earth. Lennon's Imagine is part and parcel of this.

The Dark Enlightenment suggests that science, math, history, and reason tell you such dark things about human nature, rather than Panglossian Utopian idiocies that Jews and Upper Class Whites of other backgrounds believe in as a religion.

The problem is not Jews, or rather not Jews alone. If every Jew vanished tomorrow for Dimension X, we'd still have the same problems. It is fundamentally the delusion of White High IQ people that humanity can be made into some utopia, rather than a devotion to history, tradition, smallness, and hominess that prevents the Utopia. Because such Utopias always, ALWAYS involve mass murder. Always.

Blogger TangoMan January 26, 2014 5:36 PM  

Just wait until you see what 10 more years of multiculturalism does....

When you're dealing with cancer it's always better to cut it out sooner rather than later, but before you get to that stage you first have to be troubled enough with things going wrong with your body to haul yourself to a doctor and get him to identify the cancer.

You've identified the cancer and you see what is required to rid the body politic of it but to get to the actual operation stage where cutting the body politic open becomes a necessity is going to take more than 10 years, I fear, for most people are not even willing to entertain the notion that the body politic has a cancer growing within it.

The dynamics in play here are fairly straightforward and grounded in observable reality. At the foundational level is differential rates of achievement between groups. Those from groups at, or near, the top are the most insulated from the cancer. As multiculturalism grows, the counter response to differential achievement, differential social mobility, etc is to use politics to put a thumb on the scale via affirmative action policies. Take a look at the historical data on approval ratings for affirmative action broken down by race. Of course minorities have always liked it and, even today, smaller minority groups are clamoring to carve out a piece of the action for themselves. However, the level of support amongst whites has been steadily declining and that's because the "bite" (those affected by reverse discrimination) is coming closer and closer to more and more whites.

There are serious legal efforts to curtail it taking place at the same time that there are serious efforts to expand it. The war won't be settled by a Supreme Court ruling because the stakes are too high. If AA and similar preference schemes become illegal that will destablize the minority community who depend on such schemes for much of their social mobility. Such a ruling will create a caste system. The way to overcome this is to use sheer political muscle to override the law, either through political workarounds (holistic admissions) or to replace the judges who disfavor AA with those who do favor it.

Whites won't rebel while they still have faith in the political/legal system. By the time that faith is spent, the demographic balance will disfavor American whites. Even though they will by then no longer be a majority, they will still have disproportionate political influence, but that can't be maintained indefinitely as the up and coming minority politicians want real power and will seize it from their Democratic Party overlords.

The push-pull battle of Equality of Opportunity versus Equality of Outcomes is going to be drawn out and fought on many fronts and the outcome, when it becomes clear to all, is still a long way off. The efforts to insure Equality of Outcomes are going to have to be pretty severe and their effects are going to have to reach up to fairly high levels of the social classes in order for those effects to be acknowledged by all in the targeted population (whites+Asians+Jews). This is the point where we all realize that we're dealing with a cancer and that something needs to be done.

People tend to choose the path of least resistance and the choice of revolution is a hard one to make when the alternative is just a little more inconvenience or denied opportunity or more bureaucratic racial rebalancing. The oppression has to grow severe enough for people to want to chose the alternative of scrapping the system.

The population ratio has to grow more unbalanced and the government intervention has to grow more brazen so that it touches more lives and the effects can't be brushed away very easily. In other words, it can't be an intellectual grievance, the grievance has to be anchored in the reality of people's lives and be severe enough for them to admit that they're dealing with a societal cancer.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 26, 2014 6:04 PM  

"Teenagers always think that they were the first ones to invent sex, drugs, and rock and roll."

Once an idea has been lost for long enough, discovering it again *is* a form of innovation.

Besides this, reinvented ideas are never quite exactly the same as the originals. The "Renaissance" may have been a rebirth of ideas lost since Greco-Roman times, but no one would accuse 16th century Florentines of being just like the Romans. It doesn't even take that long - the British crown and the social order underneath it were never quite the same after the Restoration as they had been before Cromwell. I don't think that any Neo-Reactionary believes that the point of what they are doing is to reset the clock to July 13th, 1789; to break out the tricorner hats and start cosplaying as Barry Lyndon. If nothing else, we're smart enough not to recreate that system exactly as it was, with exactly the same vulnerabilities it had. Technology, too, makes certain ways of living from that era impossible to recreate (unless, like James Howard Kunstler, you believe that the Industrial Revolution is on the brink of being utterly undone). The idea is to take as much as we can from it - all of its good ideas - and adapt it to the future: reinvention.

Anonymous VD January 26, 2014 7:07 PM  

Vox, if you believe Steve Sailer and his citing of Harpending and Cochran and the guy from the IQ of Nations Lynn, then Ashkenazi Jews average 115 IQ, highest; then NE Asians at 105; then NW Europeans at 100; then Hispanics at 88, then Black Americans at 85, then West Africans at 70; then Bushmen and Australian Aborigines at 60 both.

And where are Episcopalians on that list, Whiskey?

So yes, Jews who are Ashkenazi are SIGNFICANTLY SMARTER than Episcopalians.

No, Whiskey, you're making an incredibly obvious error. You cannot compare the SET of all NW Europeans to a SUBSET of Jews. It's right there on Sailer's site, for crying out loud.

Episcopalians, Unitarians, and Quakers all outscore Jews, depending upon the test.

Blogger Tommy Hass January 26, 2014 7:37 PM  

"Jews are overrepresented in the Cathedral leadership, yes, same as they were overrepresented in the Communist leadership, but I don't think it's a Jewish conspiracy. Jews are an intellectual sort of people who will usually be overrepresented in the leadership of anything because they are good at lawyering and talking their way into power"

Yes, that is why they consistently pander asininegarbage both in domestic AND foreign policy.

Even if it isn't some sort of conspiracy wherein every Jew gets taught as a child that screwing over white goyim is the goal of their lives: their actions are directed almost unanimously against white gentiles.

I read a certain forum. There was a thread about aborigines and liberal stupidity in refusing to acknowledge their obvious primitivity. By some AMAZING coincidence, guess what the (pseudo)-ethnic group is that the person acting like a brainless shitlib (by calling rayciss against an Australian conservative, who claimed that some mixed race people were claiming aboriginal heritae to gain benefits) belonged to?

One would have to be a complete imbecile to deny the absolutely parasitic influence of Jews on Western civilization, regardless of their scientific contributions.

Blogger Desiderius January 26, 2014 8:28 PM  

"I simply don't see how we get to Chesterton or Carlyle by acting like Lord Byron."

The former two had the choice. They chose the more virtuous path.

Most man-boys of today are completely oblivious to the Byron option. Maybe that has something to do with the shortage of Chestersons and Carlyles as well.

Blogger Desiderius January 26, 2014 8:30 PM  

"When enough people no longer feel cowed by the 'racism' label, the real fun will start. We may be within 10 years of that."

It's not exactly cowardice. It's lack of direct experience with evil. They go on defense because that's all they know.

Anonymous Stirner January 26, 2014 9:15 PM  

The DE hit pieces tag Moldbug and Land as leaders, but they are not leaders, per se.

Moldbug? He is perhaps the premiere progressive deprogrammer. His blog is a sustained assault on the preconceptions of liberalism, incisive commentary on all the Pretty Little Lies we have swallowed, and a range of speculations on how things may be fixed.

Land? He seems to be functioning as a boundary observer, noting where the various divisions and factions of the Dark Enlightenment are organizing. He does get major credit for creating the term Dark Enlightenment, and helping to bring a wide variety of Pretty Little Lie rejectors into a single intellectual space. For years,there are been individual bloggers plugging away at the flaws and deceptions in the progressive narrative. But they largely been working alone, with the PUA people in one sphere, the HBD people in another, and the anti-egalitarians working in their own domain. What Land did was to lump them all under one banner, and spark the self-recognition of a wider constellation of intellectual allies out there in the Dark Enlightenment. In once sense this is no great intellectual achievement. In another sense, it was a tremendous strategic advance to provide the banner that could create self-awareness and wider affiliation among DE bloggers.

Vox, you have been doing your thing for years, coming to your own insights independent of whatever obscure bloggers are out there. For the DE, it is not about intellectual lineage, or influence. Instead it is simply the recognition of kinship in the DE, and since you think along the same lines that makes you a kinsman in the DE.

The Dark Enlightenment is a large-scale creation of an in-group among a very wide variety of disparate crimethinkers. I find it to be a very promising development in the conflict against progressivism. The truth always wins in the end, so the more the progressives attack the DE, the more attention they are going to bring to the heretical notions of the DE. The more they attack, the more minds get opened. They should have ignored the DE completely, but their desire for clicks and cheap moral preening will prevent that from happening, much to their ultimate peril.

Blogger Marissa January 26, 2014 10:41 PM  

Has anyone who read Moldbug thought he ripped a lot of ideas off Rothbard?

Anonymous Roundtine January 26, 2014 11:26 PM  

I lump them all together here: Unorthodoxy. On the economics side I even have Steve Keen, and he's a leftist and by no means a neoreactionary, but his econ is at odds with the mainstream.

The DE/neoreactionaries are thinking and writing about what comes next when the system collapses. Secession is a fine idea, but is simple secession enough or is there something more that should be done so the failures of this system are not repeated? If democracy is a problem, then there must be a solution and in reality there are several.

A good text is Liberty or Equality.

Anonymous FritzG January 26, 2014 11:53 PM  

"Hillary Clinton is not President today because she supported an Anti-White agenda. Which surprise put a REAL non-White, anti-White Black man in the White House instead of a rich White poorly closeted Lesbian (if you believe the National Enquirer) in the White House by transforming America into part of Mexico and Trinidad and Tobago."

An "anti-white" black man? That's funny. Would love to see the metric for that conclusion. I wonder if the DE movement has some silliness within it.

Anonymous Stirner January 26, 2014 11:53 PM  

Roundtine, your aggregation site doesn't get enough attention. You are like the Drudge Report for the Dark Enlightenment.

And you are totally correct to include Steve Keen in the mix. The Dark Enlightenment is by default Misean, but they need to come to grips with the MMT theory. It gets much right, but of course, they are completely naive when it comes to the implications of harnessing aggregate output to the whims of mass democracy. The great irony for MMT is that even though it has great progressive potential, it can only be implemented in the long term in some sort of Neoreactionary authoritarian framework.

Anonymous FritzG January 27, 2014 12:02 AM  

"I lump them all together here: Unorthodoxy."

Roundtime, are you the guy who wrote you support a monarchy?? I want to hear more.

Anonymous paradox January 27, 2014 1:06 AM  

Erik,

I'm not mocking DE... I support it... well... the traditionalist Christian, anti-democracy variant. Doesn't mean I'm totally persuaded by DE monarchist, Hans-Hermann Hoppe though. I favor a republic over the godawful egalitarian democracy, where every idiot, immigrant, and woman has a vote. I have no problem with earned franchise for men only. Basically a republic similar to the fictional Terran Federation in Starship Troopers.

But you have to realize, DE is an eclectic mental circle jerk, for heretic nerds of the Cathedral. Once again that term needs to be replaced with Temple.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 27, 2014 3:05 AM  

"I favor a republic over the godawful egalitarian democracy, where every idiot, immigrant, and woman has a vote."

The problem is that the centrifugal forces in a limited republic always pull it towards becoming a mass democracy. That's the lesson of Rome after the Gracchus brothers, and of the American republic virtually from the beginning.

My own ideal government would be either a Christian monarchy or something akin to Venice. As for limited republics, I'd be more open to them if I thought they'd actualy stay limited.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist January 27, 2014 4:58 AM  

A question brought up by Vox's post: Is there a difference between the Dark Enlightenment and the Neo-Reaction? I think there is - they are related, but distinctly different from each other.

Anonymous JJ January 27, 2014 5:20 AM  

I believe the reason Nick Land was chosen as a target by the media is because of their desire to do a hit-and-run on DE through guilt by association. All the other DE writers are either techno-futurists or libertarian aspies. Land is the only one so far who has explicitly come out as saying that it is vital for Western nations to maintain white demographic majority, and that all neo-reaction policy should stem from this primary objective. So mass media were able to attack DE not only for being antidemocracy, but also for opposing multiculturalism and diversity, which is a million times worse.

Moldbug was also selected not just because he comes off as a smug asshole who loves to showcase his vocabulary, but also because of his obsession with Star Wars lexicon. The number of times hes used the word Sith as a term of description is nauseating. It takes away from what he has to say, a lot of which is actually good and goes a long way to deprogram those who think only in terms of politics. But I find his view of nations to be akin to corporations providing public services to its subscribers to be revolting. It sanitizes nation-states of the blood-and-soil that binds the people together. His prescription for immigration and citizenship to be selective of IQ is quite understandable considering hes Jewish.

I do think its wrong to write off the neo-reaction altogether. The comments on the hit-and-run pieces are amazing in their support of DE. Over 3000 comments, with 90%+ coming out against mass immigration and multiculturalism.



Anonymous Josh January 27, 2014 8:15 AM  

Has anyone who read Moldbug thought he ripped a lot of ideas off Rothbard?

Yes. And yet Rothbard is more readable.

Anonymous Erik January 27, 2014 8:35 AM  

A question brought up by Vox's post: Is there a difference between the Dark Enlightenment and the Neo-Reaction?

IMO, Dark Enlightenment is those realizing that something's terribly wrong with central premises of the Enlightenment (e.g. "man is a rational animal"), Neo-Reaction is those with certain types of alt-right plans for fixing it (as opposed to the "more democracy! TRUE democracy!" pushers).

Anonymous paradox January 27, 2014 8:36 AM  

Anti-Democracy Activist,

I favor a Christian republic then maybe a Christian monarchy. However, the traditionalist system in the US would be a republican. A monarchy would be traditional for a majority of European countries. Republics do require periods of revolution to keep on track. Sadly something that was thwarted in 1861. The contemporary US is far too large either systems of government to work. Several countries would need to be formed from the US.

The Swiss confederacy with local control has done well, probably too democratic for my taste though. A true republic, limited franchise, would basically amount to several monarchs with vested interest in the country. At least in the US, which might not be the case for other countries with different histories. A monarchy has the propensity to devolve into tyranny quicker than a republic, and a democracy even faster than both.

Anyway, you can see how DE easily turns into mental masturbation.

Blogger Nate January 27, 2014 8:44 AM  

"Moldbug? He is perhaps the premiere progressive deprogrammer."

/facepalm

He's an idiot... spreading idiocy.

Its like we live in a world... where blue is called red... Moldbug is standing up and shouting "THAT IS NOT RED! IT'S HORSE!" then he spends 10,000 words explaining why he think's blue shouldn't be called red... and instead should be call "horse".

Anonymous x January 27, 2014 9:14 AM  

"Neoreactonaries" ... "Dark Enlightenment" "Alt-Rigtht" ... Just a group of bloggers who (finally) figured out that progressivism is bullshit in 2008-2013.

You know what they will be called in 2014-2015? Answer: Conservatives/libertarians.

You see that bubble up every once in a while. "Reagan Democrats" ...the bloggers of 2001-2002 like Instapundit, etc.

It's called a liberal getting mugged by reality.

They make up a funny name for their "movement" but eventually end up being basically conservatives or libertarians or a blend of both, who end up despising the Republican Party while protesting progressivism in all its forms.

SO it's probably a good thing...

Anonymous Josh January 27, 2014 9:28 AM  

I am greatly amused that those who reject the pretty little lies have fallen for two of the biggest and prettiest little lies: atheism and evolution.

Anonymous pdimov January 27, 2014 12:41 PM  

Has anyone who read Moldbug thought he ripped a lot of ideas off Rothbard?

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2010/02/from-mises-to-carlyle-my-sick-journey.html

Anonymous Anonymous January 29, 2014 4:57 AM  

Mr. Chesterton for the win. Ive seen these guys converse on twitter. They take themselves very seriously. Absurdly so..

Anonymous Vacant Serif January 29, 2014 4:58 AM  

Mr. Chesterton for the win. Ive seen these guys converse on twitter. They take themselves very seriously. Absurdly so..

Blogger dante ashuàrb February 13, 2014 11:33 AM  

Lol so you guys are so close to truth but so far too

Blogger Tamara September 27, 2014 9:57 PM  

It's always fun to get the racial purity crowd and the marry-a-foreign-woman anti-feminist types to duke it out with each other.

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