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Sunday, March 16, 2014

EU refuses to recognize Crimean referendum

The EU really does hate the will of the people, even when nearly three-quarters of the entire Crimean population supported the referendum.  Athough in fairness, they didn't recognize the Dutch and Irish referendums on the Lisbon Treaty either. So at least they are being consistent, in their inimitably anti-democratic manner:
As stated by all 28 EU Heads of State or Government on 6 March 2014, the European Union considers the holding of the referendum on the future status of the territory of Ukraine as contrary to the Ukrainian Constitution and international law. The referendum is illegal and illegitimate and its outcome will not be recognised.

The solution to the crisis in Ukraine must be based on the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine, in the framework of the Ukrainian Constitution as well as the strict adherence to international standards. Only working together through diplomatic processes, including direct discussions between the Governments of Ukraine and Russia, can we find a solution to the crisis.

The European Union has a special responsibility for peace, stability and prosperity on the European continent and will continue pursuing these objectives using all available channels.
It's particularly rich coming from José Manuel Barroso, the unelected Head of the European Commission since 2004. Zerohedge notes that at 79% participation, the referendum is more democratically legitimate than any US presidential vote since 1900... and 93 percent of the population voted to join Russia. Apparently the Obama administration is also refusing to recognize the will of the Crimean people. Which makes sense; it has no regard for the will of the American people either.

In response to those who are claiming the vote was illegitimate on the basis of the Russian military presence, one man on Twitter noted:  "Hell I'd want a foreign army protecting me as I voted the South out of the United States, too."

59 Comments:

Anonymous David of One March 16, 2014 3:11 PM  



Farage obviously is in agreement as well

Anonymous Will Best March 16, 2014 3:17 PM  

Pretty sure unless they are planning on using military force, whether or not they recognize the referendum is entirely irrelevant.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter March 16, 2014 3:46 PM  

Others that they have not objected to:

http://rt.com/news/referendums-ukraine-west-relations-782/

Blogger Michael March 16, 2014 4:08 PM  

""Hell I'd want a foreign army protecting me as I voted the South out of the United States, too.""

Genius. Pure genius.

How soon could we get the Russians here so we can hold that vote!

Blogger Tommy Hass March 16, 2014 4:13 PM  

Tbf, considering that I'm from Turkey, I'm against seperatism as well.

But in this case I'm rotting for the Russians so hmm

Anonymous Weouro March 16, 2014 4:17 PM  

I wonder if it violates the Ukrainian constitution and international law for a mob to overthrow a democratically elected government for making an unpopular decision. Apparently the EU is ok with that.

Anonymous Obvious March 16, 2014 4:33 PM  

You're right, blog owner. Think how much better the US would be if the one of the parties used armed guards to ensure people voted. There is no way that would skew results.

Blogger tz March 16, 2014 4:55 PM  

Perhaps Cypress and Greece should hold EU v.s. Russian Federation elections. Greece, Syrian, and Russian represent Orthodox churches.

Perhaps the current "residents" of Guantanamo should vote if they wish to be under Cuban or American control.

and violent street demonstrations were a "diplomatic process".

Blogger tweell March 16, 2014 5:07 PM  

My goodness, you're right, Obvious! Using armed guards for voting purposes is totally unamerican!

http://conservativepapers.com/news/2010/06/30/obama-administration-supports-black-panther-voter-intimidation/#.UyYSWvldVrU

Anonymous pseudotsuga March 16, 2014 5:17 PM  

Tweell: nice riposte (re: Black Panthers "guarding" voting).

Anonymous Androsynth March 16, 2014 5:17 PM  

The vote that wouldn't have taken place due to Ukrainian troops occupying the Crimea in Russia's place clearly would have been far more legitimate.

In any case, I suppose the EU expects Russia to give up Sevastopol and go home now, due to their sternly worded letter?

Anonymous heh March 16, 2014 5:23 PM  

Elections only count if the voters make the right choice.

Anonymous Alexander March 16, 2014 5:31 PM  

I'm so confused now. Kosovo good, Crimea bad. Presumably Scotland good but maybe not depending on if it results in England leaving EU. Basque, Catalan: would be bad. But nothing on earth would be more good than Free Tibet (TM).

Anonymous John March 16, 2014 5:33 PM  

""Hell I'd want a foreign army protecting me as I voted the South out of the United States, too.""

We could only be so lucky that the damn Yankees would actually let us go. With Remmington coming to Alabama now, most of the worthwhile pieces of the North have made their way South. Though I anticipate I will be saying "we don't care how y'all do it up North" a bit more as we educate any stubborn transplants. Though I do salute my brothers in Connecticut thumbing their noses at stupid anti-Constitutional laws passed by totalitarian jerks.

Anonymous dw March 16, 2014 5:49 PM  

"We could only be so lucky that the damn Yankees would actually let us go."

The North wouldn't have a choice in the matter. The South is the most martial region of the country. If it came down blows, the North wouldn't have a hope and a prayer of winning. Hell, I don't see it as the South seceding so much as America kicking out non-America.

Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum March 16, 2014 5:55 PM  

How about this for an idea:

The USA/all of the West and NATO butt the hell out of this whole debacle?

I don't give a crap about Ukraine, Russia, or Crimea. Let them duke it out on their own.

I care about Russian soldiers dying in a seemingly pointless war of expansion about as much as I care about Islamic Jihadists dying in a Syrian civil war.

Anonymous cheddarman March 16, 2014 6:09 PM  

Not to rain on the hopes of you Southrons, but you had better make sure you have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, if you plan on leaving the union any time soon. The people who gave you Sherman's march to the sea would not hesitate to use them against your people. And I say that as a friend of the South who happens to live in yankee land.

Anonymous JBO March 16, 2014 6:22 PM  

Priceless.

The solution to the crisis in Ukraine must be based on . . . the framework of the Ukrainian Constitution . . .

So the EU is now demanding that Yanukovych be reinstated?

Blogger James Dixon March 16, 2014 6:32 PM  

> The people who gave you Sherman's march to the sea would not hesitate to use them against your people.

Do you really think that's news to anyone?

Anonymous Godfrey March 16, 2014 6:39 PM  

"The [EU] is illegal and illegitimate and... will not be recognized."





Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 16, 2014 6:45 PM  

As other lands also wish to leave or secede from their countries (seemingly to escape the pro-bank/EU hell), the leaders of the West has no business putting their oversized adult clothing on to tap on the backs of real adults like Russia and Crimea about anything. The people wanted to annex towards where, what their culture is, Russian and a matching language.

Leave those people the hell alone - what threat does Russia pose? None.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 16, 2014 6:48 PM  

BooHoo, No matter the leadership, Syria and Iran were not giving neoc's stiffies anymore! So the bastards had to turn the worlds attention to a non story and it FAILED.

Anonymous DA March 16, 2014 6:56 PM  

The people who gave you Sherman's march to the sea would not hesitate to use them against your people.

The 1860s were a long time ago. Nobody north of the Mason-Dickson would risk breaking a nail on their latte-sipping fingers to keep the south. Not that the south is exactly as fierce these days either, but the SWPLs up north are not going to risk the lives of their 0.7 boys per family on anything so proletarian as a fight involving those awful guns.

Anonymous Michael March 16, 2014 7:24 PM  

Vox, "In response to those who are claiming the vote was illegitimate on the basis of the Russian military presence, one man on Twitter noted: 'Hell I'd want a foreign army protecting me as I voted the South out of the United States, too.'"

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

Blogger James Dixon March 16, 2014 7:25 PM  

> The people who gave you Sherman's march to the sea would not hesitate to use them against your people.

I can only hope that you're correct. But people were saying the same type of thing (on both sides) just over 150 years ago. Over half a million dead proved them wrong.

Anonymous Will Best March 16, 2014 7:33 PM  

The 1860s were a long time ago. Nobody north of the Mason-Dickson would risk breaking a nail on their latte-sipping fingers to keep the south.

There is truth in this. I have had several conversations with Northerners that think we should kick the South out.

You can get an idea about that vision from the map on the show Revolution, though I suspect they would have an interest in Keeping Northern Cal through Washington somehow.

Anonymous Steve March 16, 2014 7:59 PM  

Ukraine is none of our business. The bigger Russia gets, the smaller the heads of the would-be NWO get. One day they'll be pleading with us, those they wanted to make their SERFS,to "save them from the terror of the Norsemen",as the ancient refrain goes.

I hope the South gets the chance to secede. It is the only part of America that is still a nation.

Blogger Nate March 16, 2014 8:51 PM  

"There is truth in this. I have had several conversations with Northerners that think we should kick the South out."

what ya'll don't realize is popular sentiment wasn't that different in 1860 either. Not saying the majority disapproved... just saying there was no where close to universal approval for the war. Lots of folks thought "why bother?"

Blogger Nate March 16, 2014 8:55 PM  

"The North wouldn't have a choice in the matter. The South is the most martial region of the country. If it came down blows, the North wouldn't have a hope and a prayer of winning."

Most yankees don't realize how much the roles have reversed since 1860.

Detroit is a ghost town.... and there are huge auto plants all over the south. The south is not a bunch of farmers anymore.

and oh look... Remington is opening a big plant in Alabama...

huh... figure that.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp March 16, 2014 9:02 PM  

"Detroit is a ghost town.... "

Why, cause it's full of spooks?

Anonymous Will Best March 16, 2014 9:08 PM  

Detroit is a ghost town.... and there are huge auto plants all over the south. The south is not a bunch of farmers anymore.

That is typically my point to people that want to disrespect the South and to the lesser extent the non-coastal west. A significant chunk of the North's economy is tied to financial games and intellectual property. Funny thing about currency and IP is that as a government construct, another sovereign government need not bother with it.

Blogger Nate March 16, 2014 10:01 PM  

"Why, cause it's full of spooks?"


No. Because its literally gone feral.


http://city-journal.org/2009/19_4_snd-feral-detroit.html

Anonymous FP March 16, 2014 10:26 PM  

"You can get an idea about that vision from the map on the show Revolution, though I suspect they would have an interest in Keeping Northern Cal through Washington somehow."

Unlikely, as there are several parts of the west coast that would be quite happy to leave the control of the left coast lefties.

Anonymous ChicagoRefugee March 16, 2014 11:12 PM  

Don't forget, SOS Kerry gave Putin a firm Monday deadline. Why, one might almost call it a red line ....

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey March 16, 2014 11:35 PM  

I wonder if Russia is accepting foreign volunteers?

Blogger evilwhitemalempire March 17, 2014 12:01 AM  

I wonder if it violates the Ukrainian constitution and international law for a mob to overthrow a democratically elected government for making an unpopular decision. Apparently the EU is ok with that.
-----------------------------------------------
Only when the EU starts the mob.

Anonymous Inane Rambler March 17, 2014 12:07 AM  

It happened during the Civil War. It happened in Maryland and it happened during the West Virginia vote. It has precedent.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 17, 2014 12:17 AM  

Vladimir Putin’s goals reach far beyond the Crimean peninsula says:

The Moscow establishment was not concerned about controlling the Black Sea; it was preoccupied with stuffing its own pockets at the expense of the people.

Hmmm. The Washington Establishment was not concerned about the welfare of ordinary Americans; it was preoccupied with stuffing its own pockets at the expense of the people.

There, fixed that for you.

Anonymous Stephen J. March 17, 2014 12:42 AM  

Stipulating that a totally uninfluenced referendum vote might still have produced this result anyway, exactly how many grains of salt should those "79% participation" and "93% Yes" figures be taken with? Bearing in mind (a) who's reporting them and (b) the presence of an occupying military force for a government that nobody believes would permit any other result.

If a majority of Crimean residents sincerely want to rejoin Russia and the Ukrainian government wasn't going to let them, that certainly doesn't add to the current government's legitimacy, but it doesn't necessarily legitimize what may well be a mere plebiscite either. Without Russia's invasion the referendum would have been impossible, and with it the winners don't need it and the losers couldn't have won it. I have to say it strikes me more as theatre than legitimate expression of a majority will, in those circumstances.

Blogger Outlaw X March 17, 2014 12:58 AM  

I wasn't old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis, but I don't remember any rhetoric or escalation of this magnitude during the cold war. This has me concerned with statements like ""Russia is the only country in the world realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash," anchor Dmitry Kiselyov said on his weekly news show on state-controlled Rossiya 1 television.."

Blogger Outlaw X March 17, 2014 1:07 AM  

I'll guarantee after the movement of NATO aircraft and ships that Russia already has moved tactical nukes moved to the border targeting NATO Military bases.

Anonymous Androsynth March 17, 2014 1:29 AM  

Once the previous head of the Ukrainian state was extra-constitutionally removed and replaced, the prior Ukrainian constitution ceased to hold all value as a legitimate legal document. Appealing to it now is an exercise in fantasy and hypocrisy. The new Ukraine is a different legal entity than the pre-revolution Ukraine.

Anonymous ZhukovG March 17, 2014 6:59 AM  

Based on the reports of international observers, the vote appears to be legitimate. I also saw that the ballots appeared to be clearly formatted, with check boxes larger than postage stamps, to reduce the chance of errors.

One thing that I think caused this one sided result is the fact that the average Russian worker has an income three times that of the average Ukrainian worker.

The opposition from the Bankster controlled West appears driven by the fear that other regions in Ukraine and other countries will demand the same thing.

I have even heard that the 'Serene Republic of Venice', may once again grace the globe with its presence.

Anonymous Stilicho March 17, 2014 7:26 AM  

I suspect secession will take the form of semi autonomous states as a first step at least. "We're not leaving the United States of America, we're leaving Washington D.C."

Anonymous Hunsdon March 17, 2014 8:25 AM  

And the propaganda rolls on. Western media are making late Brezhnevschina Pravda and Izvestia look good. Old Soviet joke: в Правде нету известии, в Известии нету правди, or In Pravda there's no news, in Izvestia there's no truth.

Blogger JaimeInTexas March 17, 2014 9:01 AM  

While I am for secession and the right of secession, the FedGov and all who worship the "one nation, indivisible" will not allow it. The cops will follow orders to enforce whatever laws they are told to go and enforce, the FBI and other federal agents will follow orders and enforce whatever laws they are told to enforce and [most of] the military folks in the military will follow orders.

Secession will not be bloodless unless it can, somehow, most of the work can be done politically.


Blogger Glen Filthie March 17, 2014 10:18 AM  

Well, as the resident token neocon shit I suppose if falls to me to comment for my people.

Fact is...we are probably on your side in this, Vox. I don't think we are getting all the facts here, I don't think the parties involved are being honest with us...and worse yet, we all know that baboon in the Whitehouse and his ship of fools are up to any conflict that could erupt. Putin knows an idiot when he sees one as do we.

I would hate like hell to see the fine fellas in your military committed to an action while you have an utter moron in the Oval Office.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis March 17, 2014 11:26 AM  

It doesn't matter what the referendum was. In all likelihood a majority of Crimeans do want to become part of Russia but let us not pretend that if the numbers would have been reversed that the Russians wouldn't have doctored plebiscite. The Russians need Crimea and even with it they are pretty boxed in by the US, last I checked there was a carrier and a Marine Expeditionary force in the eastern Mediterranean.

The real question now is what will happen with the rest of eastern Ukraine, which has a lot of Russian, is economically oriented towards Russia, and most importantly, gives the Russians what they so desperately need. Space.

Blogger RobertW March 17, 2014 3:44 PM  

You bet! At this point I think a majority of the population of the South would be happy to have that vote take place.

Anonymous civilServant March 17, 2014 6:47 PM  

Hell I'd want a foreign army protecting me as I voted the South out of the United States, too.

Which army?

Anonymous Grinder March 17, 2014 7:05 PM  

Glen Filthie March 17, 2014 10:18 AM
Well, as the resident token neocon shit I suppose if falls to me to comment for my people.

Fact is...we are probably on your side in this, Vox. I don't think we are getting all the facts here, I don't think the parties involved are being honest with us...and worse yet, we all know that baboon in the Whitehouse and his ship of fools are up to any conflict that could erupt. Putin knows an idiot when he sees one as do we.

I would hate like hell to see the fine fellas in your military committed to an action while you have an utter moron in the Oval Office.


I don't think much of Obama but I would like to know what you believe that a good and smart leader would do in this situation.

Anonymous Grinder March 17, 2014 7:11 PM  


Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis March 17, 2014 11:26 AM
It doesn't matter what the referendum was. In all likelihood a majority of Crimeans do want to become part of Russia but let us not pretend that if the numbers would have been reversed that the Russians wouldn't have doctored plebiscite. The Russians need Crimea and even with it they are pretty boxed in by the US, last I checked there was a carrier and a Marine Expeditionary force in the eastern Mediterranean.

The real question now is what will happen with the rest of eastern Ukraine, which has a lot of Russian, is economically oriented towards Russia, and most importantly, gives the Russians what they so desperately need. Space.

Yeah, it's too bad aircraft carriers and the Marines weren't introduced to the American forces earlier. I bet you would have had no problem winning in Vietnam.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 17, 2014 8:07 PM  

"I don't think much of Obama but I would like to know what you believe that a good and smart leader would do in this situation."

Leave it alone. Ignore it. Russian ambitions are not a threat to us. (I mean the real "us" not the fake "us".) It has nothing to do with genuine American interests. It has everything to do with the interests of the squid bankers and the race-replacement maniacs.

"most importantly, gives the Russians what they so desperately need. Space."

Wait.... WHAT? Have you ever seen a map of Russia? They need Crimea because they need a warm water port. They'd like eastern Ukraine b/c 1) it gives them more leverage and control over the way Russian oil and gas is delivered to Europe, and 2) it adds more ethnic Russians to actual Russia, which is probably good for demographic leverage given that they have immivasion problems too. But.... space?

Anonymous Grinder March 17, 2014 8:44 PM  

Keeping USA out of the mess is the best course of action in my opinion as well, but I don't think that is what a strong and smart leader should do according to those calling Obama an incompetent and weakling because of his performance so far. I was curious about the token neocon shit position.

Anonymous Don March 17, 2014 8:59 PM  

Anyone heard from anyone in Ukraine for the last week or so? I'm worried about my friend no contact for over a week.

Anonymous bob k. mando March 17, 2014 10:08 PM  

civilServant March 17, 2014 6:47 PM
Which army?



pretty much any army not commanded by the asshole in the white house.



Grinder March 17, 2014 7:05 PM
I would like to know what you believe that a good and smart leader would do in this situation.



a good and smart leader would do his best to honor commitments made by prior administrations.

especially those prior commitments to which he has added his personal assurances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
"In a joint statement on December 4, 2009 the presidents of the United States and Russia, Barack Obama and Dmitry Medvedev, confirmed the assurances of security to Ukraine"


arguments can obviously be made that no "good and smart leader" would advise another country to disarm themselves and rely on the US for defense ... but that ship has already sailed with Bill Bob Boy Clinton.


everyone keeps wondering what Obama is going to do to 'force' Russia to relinquish it's grip. even Pournelle is confused.

Steyn has a good write up here:
http://www.steynonline.com/6175/why-would-any-foreign-government-trust-america
"They have now broken it, as Vladimir Putin knew they would. In other words, he went into the Ukraine and snaffled out the Crimea not in vague defiance of "international law" but in an explicit up-yours to the US and UK. "

i keep telling y'all; i think Obama's master strategy is GIVE Crimea to Putin. if there's anything beyond bluster and a few minor trade sanctions i'm going to be shocked. the loss of prestige and respect that Steyn talks about is a feature, not a bug.

if there's a real military engagement i'm pretty sure that it's going to have been blundered into.

no, Nuland doesn't necessarily have any idea what Barry Soetoro is actually up too.



Don March 17, 2014 8:59 PM
Anyone heard from anyone in Ukraine for the last week or so?



you might try seeing if Russian Gospel Ministries ( or something like them ) has been getting any word. they were shipping Bibles into the USSR when the Iron Curtain was still up.

i would expect them to still have contacts all over that area of the world.

http://www.bloglines.com/company/8655165/Russian.Gospel.Ministries.574-522-3486

Anonymous Don March 18, 2014 10:34 AM  

Bob - Thanks, I should have thought of that. We were thinking of going on a Mission there just a couple of months ago.

Anonymous Anonymous March 18, 2014 2:18 PM  

Gunfire in Sevastopol - Ukraine solider killed in exchange: http://t.co/PXkRCSWrOK

And here we go...

Anonymous Anonymous March 19, 2014 12:15 PM  

I have a different take on this: Ukraine "seceded" from the Soviet Union years ago and wants to remain free. The "border state" of Crimea is being used as an excuse to invade the country and bring it back into the fold. Sound familiar?

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