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Sunday, March 09, 2014

The international hypocrite

No one can reasonably take the US position on Crimean self-determination seriously anymore. Even the New York Times appears to be uncomfortable with the Obama administration's anti-democratic actions:
They wanted to break away from a country they considered hostile. The central government cried foul, calling it a violation of international law. But with the help of a powerful foreign military, they succeeded in severing ties.

The Kosovars’ secession from Serbia in 1999 drove a deep wedge between the United States and Russia that soured relations for years. Washington supported Kosovo’s bid for independence, culminating in 2008, while Moscow saw it as an infringement of Serbia’s sovereignty.

Now 15 years later, the former Cold War rivals again find themselves at odds, but this time they have effectively switched sides: Russia loudly proclaims Crimea’s right to break off from Ukraine while the United States calls it illegitimate. The showdown in Ukraine has revived a centuries-old debate over the right of self-determination versus the territorial integrity of nation-states.

The clash in Crimea is hardly an exact parallel of the Kosovo episode, especially with Russian troops occupying the peninsula as it calls a March 16 referendum to dissolve ties with Ukraine and rejoin Russia. Though the United States intervened militarily in Kosovo, it did not do so to take the territory for itself. But the current case underscores once again that for all of the articulation of grand principles, the acceptability of regions breaking away often depends on the circumstances.

Consider the different American views of recent bids for independence.

Chechnya? No.

East Timor? Yes.

Abkhazia? No.

South Sudan? Yes.

Palestine? It’s complicated.

It is an acutely delicate subject in the West, where Britain wants to keep Scotland and Spain wants to keep Catalonia.
And the USA murdered hundreds of thousands in order to forcibly "keep the Union together" and deny the sovereign Southern States their right to self-determination. This has not escaped the attention of the world's second-rate powers, some of whom have indicated support for the Russian position:
Indian officials have told Telegraph India that, in the newspaper’s words, Delhi is “convinced that the West’s tacit support for a series of attempted coups against democratically elected governments — in Egypt, Thailand and now Ukraine — has only weakened democratic roots in these countries.”
This is the cost of sacrificing principles for pragmatism. You don't get to claim the moral high ground anymore and no one is going to view you as the good guy. Russia is acting perfectly within its rights: it has permission to station as many as 25,000 troops in the Crimea. Not only that, but its actions are far more in accord with legitimate democratic rule than those of the anti-democratic USA and EU, who are complicit in overthrowing Ukraine's democratically elected government as well as installing an unelected prime minister in Italy.

This comment from Zerohedge may explain the real reason for the drama in the Ukraine:
According to the staff of the "Borispol" airport in Ukraine, four large armed trucks and two cargo minivan Volkswagen without license plates arrived to the airport and parked near a transport aircraft at the end of one of runways. About fifteen people in black uniform, wearing masks and bullet-proof vests came out of these vans. Some of them were armed with assault rifles. These people have moved more than 40 heavy boxes from the trucks into the aircraft.... Later, one of the senior officials of the former Ministry of Revenue and Taxes reported that, according to his information, last night, at the order of one of the "new Ukrainian leaders" the entire gold reserve of Ukraine has been sent to in the United States. 
If true, that seizure should permit the Federal Reserve to stave off the collapse of the markets for a little while longer. A lot of the recent international activity looks disturbingly like pre-positioning for economic collapse.

Labels:

136 Comments:

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben March 09, 2014 9:24 AM  

A serious conflict cannot be avoided because Obama is not giving Putin a way to save face. Instead, he is backing Putting into a corner. In six months from now we could see the start of a major conflict. If that happens you could see the dollar and stock market skyrocket.

This has only begun.

Anonymous Stilicho March 09, 2014 9:25 AM  

[laughs] what would truly be interesting is if that flight had to stop over in Germany for any reason (or to be forced to land by German fighters) and the gold were "held for safekeeping" in Frankfort. I'm sure the German central bank would be happy to work out a deal with the Fed whereby the Ukrainian gold could be "replaced" in the Fed's vaults by some of the German gold that we are assured is there, but inexplicably cannot be sent to Frankfort.

Blogger bearspaw March 09, 2014 9:28 AM  

The US still operates a 'semi permanent' base, Camp Bondsteel, smack dab in the middle of Kosovo. I doubt they are leaving anytime soon.

Anonymous DJF March 09, 2014 9:30 AM  

“”””Though the United States intervened militarily in Kosovo, it did not do so to take the territory for itself.”””’

But the US government is not interested in the US, its interested in globalist ideology, “free trade” and the wealth and health of international finance. So the taking of territory was never for the US, but for the globalist cause.

Anonymous Woof March 09, 2014 9:58 AM  

Who woulda thunk it.., an old school Soviet becoming the Ozzy Osbourne in a world of bubble gum pop politics. Fuk it,..,good on him. If we had a half decent media, the half brother would have long ago fallen on his sword. How long can his media shield protect him before the idiots wake up? probably never. Clinton secured the heroin pipeline into Europe for the Kosovo gangsters by taking out Milosovic and the idiots will welcome the ascension of his wretched old lady as if none of that happened. The Worlds gone mad.

Anonymous Godfrey March 09, 2014 10:07 AM  

The bankers run it all in the West.

OpenID simplytimothy March 09, 2014 10:10 AM  

Payload on this model of VW cargo van is 900Kg.

1800 Kg total = 63493 oz (~4000 lbs)

63493oz x $1300/oz = $82,540,900


How does this stave off collapse? Is my math wrong?






Assuming full boxes and 20 boxes per van.


OpenID simplytimothy March 09, 2014 10:11 AM  

Ignore the "Assuming full boxes and 20 boxes per van...? in my above comment. They are just some notes as I was formulating my comment.

Anonymous Roundtine March 09, 2014 10:12 AM  

It'll be funny when Alabama secedes and they're out on the beach waving the Stars & Bars as the the Russian navy floats by.

Anonymous MendoScot March 09, 2014 10:13 AM  

I just ran across this, which might go some way to explaining Israel's interest in the Ukraine.

Tens of thousands of mostly young Jews settled in this part of “New Russia” over the next century. The Crimea became so identified with Russia’s Jewish history, in fact, that Jewish activists in St. Petersburg pointed to the long legacy of Crimean Jews as an argument for Jewish emancipation in the empire—after all, they claimed, Jews had been living there longer than Russians.
...
Jewish residents of the Crimea were also deeply engaged in the critical Jewish question of the time—Zionism—and by the late 19th century the area had become a training ground for future Zionist pioneers, who practiced agricultural techniques there before relocating to Palestine. Joseph Trumpeldor—who famously gave his life defending the northern Galilee settlement of Tel Hai with the motto “It is good to die for our country”—once trained potential migrants in the Crimea.

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 10:19 AM  

Indiana: Give me the whip.
Satipo: Throw me the idol. No time to argue! Throw me idol, I'll throw you the whip!
Indiana: [throws the idol] Give me the whip!
Satipo: Adiós, señor.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 10:31 AM  

But Gold isn't money.

Anonymous Godfrey March 09, 2014 10:35 AM  

It's a tragedy that Mc-Insane is still in the Senate. Thank you Arizona, I hope the first nukes land there.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 10:38 AM  

"Assuming full boxes and 20 boxes per van."

You forgot the "4 large armed trucks".

"These people have moved more than 40 heavy boxes from the trucks into the aircraft...."

The people were in the vans.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 10:41 AM  

"It'll be funny when Alabama secedes and they're out on the beach waving the Stars & Bars as the the Russian navy floats by."

easy... you're givin' me a stiffy

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 10:43 AM  

"And the USA murdered hundreds of thousands in order to forcibly "keep the Union together" and deny the sovereign Southern States their right to self-determination."

While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants and jackbooted them into submission in the name of God and in the interest of mammon. I say the ancestors of Nate and Josh got what they deserved.

OpenID simplytimothy March 09, 2014 10:46 AM  

@Nate.

Bingo! thx.

Ok, does anybody know the most likely candidate for armored truck?

Anonymous VD March 09, 2014 10:58 AM  

While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants and jackbooted them into submission in the name of God and in the interest of mammon. I say the ancestors of Nate and Josh got what they deserved.

Actually, it was Yankees and Jews who imported Africans and sold them to the Southrons. Look up the history of the endowment for Brown University, for example. The South wasn't guiltless, but it was the North who created and supplied the market.

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer March 09, 2014 11:06 AM  

It is as simple as it is ancient. Those with a will to power will always be in the right as long as they are in power. All opposition is wrong, always until the opposition becomes the power, at whcih point it may begin, as it always does, to rewrite history.

Everything else is academic.

Blogger Doom March 09, 2014 11:08 AM  

India isn't exactly the nation I would go to for political advice or reasoned commentary. They are still buttsore that we stopped aid when they were testing nuclear weapons. That was the best thing we could have done for them, and we should do that worldwide. Without US dollars pouring in to corrupocrats there, the politicians had to stand on their own tax bases and actually please their constituents. But, they are still pissed about getting sent to their room without dinner.

As to Egypt and the rest, are you kidding? If there was a faction of our government who supported what happened there, it wasn't this admin or the state department, both of whom were in bed with the muslim brotherhood jacking of Egypt initially. And they would still be in place if the admin had their way.

My question is, is there actually a political force in the US that is strong enough to do these things against the admin's and state's will? Probably. But I'm not really seeing the fingerprints. Are they that good? I suspect they could be. I'm just not seeing that they have the kind of balls that would take. If so? All good. It means this is still a stronger republic than it is a democracy, and that... my friends... is a damned fine thing.

OpenID simplytimothy March 09, 2014 11:11 AM  

Or, one could forget armored trucks and payload capacity and simply search the internet for ukraine gold reserves to get

1.13 million troy ounces as of the beginning of December 2012.

Blogger racketmensch March 09, 2014 11:13 AM  

If Ukraine had any phys in the vaults after ten years of yush, timo, and yak, then the phrase, "corrupt oligarchy" loses much of a its lustre. Dat gold bin re-hypothemecated!

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer March 09, 2014 11:13 AM  

"How does this stave off collapse? Is my math wrong?"

Physical gold is rehypothecated at a rate of 100:1 via ETFs/gold leases.

Add in the armoured cars and you're talking a trillion dollars. A trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon we're talking real wealth.

OpenID cailcorishev March 09, 2014 11:14 AM  

Ok, 40 boxes, let's say 200 pounds each -- heavy enough it'd take 2-4 people to carry one, but they could have handles on them. That's 8000 pounds * 16 ounces * $1300 = $166M. Wouldn't keep our government afloat for more than a few seconds, but a nice payday for a couple of conspirators.

I used to think the USA would pretty much carry on as usual on inertia for the rest of my lifetime. Now we seem determined to shoot ourselves in the foot as soon and as many times as possible.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 11:30 AM  

"While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants and jackbooted them into submission in the name of God and in the interest of mammon. "

False. and off topic.

We didn't important anyone. Yankees did the importing.


Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 11:31 AM  

Also... at the time... Nate's ancestors were still in Greece.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 11:41 AM  

"heavy enough it'd take 2-4 people to carry one"

what? 4 people for a 200 pound box?

No.

Look guys... to put this into persepctive... a couple years ago a kentucky high school football team moved the gold at Fort Knox. In one afternoon.

Anonymous zen0 March 09, 2014 11:43 AM  

four large armed trucks and two cargo minivan Volkswagen without license plates......

No license plates? I see the rule of law has fallen by the wayside. What's next, people driving without proper ID?

No good can come of this.

Anonymous bob k. mando March 09, 2014 11:43 AM  

Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 10:43 AM
While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants and jackbooted them into submission in the name of God and in the interest of mammon.



you seem to have a delusional view of history which, conveniently, excludes the knowledge that there were slaves in the north ...

Blogger Mats March 09, 2014 11:48 AM  

20 years ago, pretty much everyone in the West would stand side by side with the American Administration. Today, I don't sugest what most stand with Russia, but plenty would think twice before attacking them.
Like the post says, Americans have lost the moral high-ground and no one takes them seriously now. Blame the bankers, not the Average Joe.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 11:51 AM  

" Blame the bankers, not the Average Joe."

You can also blame idiots like John McCain

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 11:54 AM  

I am familiar with the machinations of the Brown family, as well as the complicity of the North in this endeavor. Regardless, the impetus for market demand for black gold was originally and undeniably the result of those southrons that engaged in widespread cash crop agriculture, who sought to meet global needs for sugar, rice, tobacco, and later cotton via a cheap labor force.

On a related issue, the South flipped flopped on states' rights and self-determination--when Kansas voters overwhelmingly rejected human bondage, Jefferson Davis and company cried "foul". Why? The Confederacy would later point to the Dred Scott decision, which trumped states' rights by declaring that ALL states were compelled to recognize, respect, and protect slavery regardless of those states who banned it. Recall that southern states insisted that no branch of government had the authority to prohibit slavery, that the people themselves ultimately made the final judgement. Talk about hypocrisy...


"Jews who imported Africans..."

According to the research of Eli Faber from 1998, he posits that Jews did NOT play a leading role as the financial backers or transporters in the transatlantic or Caribbean slave trades. For starters, no ship fitted out for the slave trade that originated in Great Britain was under the direct or indirect control of a Jew. The data provided by the author demonstrates that Jews played little or no role in importing or selling slaves. If you could find research that contradicts his findings, I am all ears.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 11:55 AM  

"you seem to have a delusional view of history which, conveniently, excludes the knowledge that there were slaves in the north..."

No shit, Sherlock.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 11:56 AM  

"We didn't important anyone. Yankees did the importing."

You did the murdering and raping and "converting". How noble.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 11:57 AM  

"Also... at the time... Nate's ancestors were still in Greece."

Great, invaders who came to our shores.

Anonymous MrGreenMan March 09, 2014 12:05 PM  

All empires die. Barbarian empires die pretty fast. The Persians and Romans taught rule of law; the Greeks taught philosophy; the British and French taught culture; the Spanish saved and spread Christianity; even the Arab empire will be remembered for having unified a fifth of the world under Islam and the Arabic language.

What will the epitaph of the American empire be? Some line from Blackmail the Universe?

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 12:18 PM  

"You did the murdering and raping and "converting". How noble."

***chuckle***

This is all very cute... but this is actually not the "educating idiot yankees" thread. Thus all of this is off topic.

Round 2 will come up again soon... and you can get your chance to get publicly humiliated then... so be patient.

Until then... entertain yourself... go back to licking the windows of the short bus.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 12:19 PM  

"Great, invaders who came to our shores."

Yes yes... invaders... who formulated the concepts that formed the government system your beloved founding fathers adopted.

Anonymous Sensei March 09, 2014 12:20 PM  

Also... at the time... Nate's ancestors were still in Greece.

Yeah half of mine were still in Europe, and the other half were too poor to own slaves. But, do you know, there's a strong and prevalent churchian movement saying that this doesn't excuse you at all. I was surprised, but similar to the blue pill nonsense, I've been hearing it even from people who ought to know better and are reliable on other topics.

In regards to the topic in general, unless our goal is another 400+ comment post, it's best not to feed yankee imperialist carpetbagger trolls...

OpenID simplytimothy March 09, 2014 12:21 PM  


Physical gold is rehypothecated at a rate of 100:1 via ETFs/gold leases.

Poof! Its there! And somebody got rich doing nothing.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 12:25 PM  

" But, do you know, there's a strong and prevalent churchian movement saying that this doesn't excuse you at all. "

WHITE DEVILS!

Anonymous zen0 March 09, 2014 12:36 PM  

@ Yankee troll: According to the research of Eli Faber from 1998, he posits that Jews did NOT play a leading role as the financial backers or transporters in the transatlantic or Caribbean slave trades. For starters, no ship fitted out for the slave trade that originated in Great Britain was under the direct or indirect control of a Jew.

Weasel words.

Another Jew writes about the slave trade

Jewish Involvement In
Black Slave Trade
To The Americas

By Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael
2-24-6


The following passages are from Dr. Raphael's book Jews and Judaism in the United States: A Documentary History (New York: Behrman House, Inc., Pub, 1983), pp. 14, 23-25.

"Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave auctions were postponed if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a major role in the slave trade. In fact, in all the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently dominated.

"This was no less true on the North American mainland, where during the eighteenth century Jews participated in the 'triangular trade' that brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies and there exchanged them for molasses, which in turn was taken to New England and converted into rum for sale in Africa. Isaac Da Costa of Charleston in the 1750's, David Franks of Philadelphia in the 1760's, and Aaron Lopez of Newport in the late 1760's and early 1770's dominated Jewish slave trading on the American continent."

Dr. Raphael discusses the central role of the Jews in the New World commerce and the African slave trade (pp. 23-25):


Didn't the term Yankee originally refer to the Dutch in America?

Anonymous Stilicho March 09, 2014 12:42 PM  

According to the research of Eli Faber

Awesome! You can count to Jew! For extra credit, divide by purple...

Anonymous Mike M. March 09, 2014 12:47 PM  

Dr. Pournelle was right - there is NOBODY in the Obama Regime who has a clue about history.

Ethnically, the eastern part of Ukraine, including the Crimea, is Russian. Putin is doing some ethnic consolidating. I think he's being ham-fisted about it, but his motivations are understandable. He's a Russian patriot...unlike Obama, who clearly despises the nation he is misgoverning.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 09, 2014 12:57 PM  

"While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants"

Slabery never, ever, ever, ever, existed anywhere other than in the American South. And so white people are uniquely guilty for da turrrrble turrrrble slabery in ways nobody else on planet Earth ever, ever was. Which is mighty convenient, since white people have so much cool stuff to plunder, and now there's an excuse to plunder it!

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 12:57 PM  

"Ethnically, the eastern part of Ukraine, including the Crimea, is Russian."

sky's blue. water's wet. Russia sides with christians.

This isn't new.

Seriously... these are supposed to be the bad guys?

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 1:01 PM  

a couple years ago a kentucky high school football team moved the gold at Fort Knox. In one afternoon.

When did this happen?

Anonymous DJF March 09, 2014 1:04 PM  

“””Yankee Imperialist writes”””

“”””For starters, no ship fitted out for the slave trade that originated in Great Britain was under the direct or indirect control of a Jew””’

Since Great Britain did not allow slaves in Great Britain then of course no ships in Great Britain would be outfitted for the slave trade. They were outfitted once they got to Africa.

And since Great Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 no British ships at all were openly carrying slaves after that point. The US also banned the international slave trade the same year. It did not stop all the slave trade since the ships changed their nationality

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 1:06 PM  

Russia sides with christians.

Lol! Yeah, when they aren't busy purging them or liquidating them.

Blogger ajw308 March 09, 2014 1:06 PM  

Great, invaders who came to our shores.
Aren't the Greeks most famous for an act of self defense? Yankee, please tell me who the Greeks invaded?

Blogger Krul March 09, 2014 1:08 PM  

ajw308 - Yankee, please tell me who the Greeks invaded?

The Trojans, duh.

OpenID mattse001 March 09, 2014 1:10 PM  

"...the entire gold reserve of Ukraine has been sent to in the United States."
...which would last about 5 minutes in a crisis. Remember, this is the economic powerhouse of Ukraine we're talking about, whose 2011 GDP was about $165 Billion or 1% of the US. How much gold could they have, especially after decades of corrupt rule? Oh, and of course this story is rumor anyway.

As far as the legitimacy of Crimea's secession: considering the longstanding ties to Russia both historically and ethnically, I think it probable that they would vote to join Russia. However, any vote must be free. It's rather hard to tell if that's true with 25k Russian shock troops stationed within minutes of the Crimean parliament. And another thing: if Crimea is so pro-Russia, why did the Russian navy have to blockade the Ukrainian navy from escaping?

Note that I think the US' objections to be laughable.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp March 09, 2014 1:10 PM  

"when they aren't busy purging them or liquidating them"

Um, those weren't "Russians".

Anonymous fish March 09, 2014 1:14 PM  

As far off topic as you can get while discussing geopolitical hypocrisy!

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/03/07/big-gym-fight-has-police-hoping-la-fitness-beefs-up-security/

Loves me my vibrancy!

Blogger ajw308 March 09, 2014 1:22 PM  

Krul, ya gonna really dig back over 3,000 years to paint the Greejs as invaders. Besides, weren't the Trojans Greeks living on the coast of Turkey?

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 1:25 PM  

Um, those weren't "Russians".

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 1:26 PM  

/double face palm slow head shake

Blogger Krul March 09, 2014 1:26 PM  

Re: ajw308, it's a joke. Anyway, Yankee didn't mean "invader" in the sense of military conquest, but in the sense that Vox calls Mexican and Somalian immigrants "invaders".

Anonymous Mike M. March 09, 2014 1:34 PM  

The other thing that must be borne in mind is that Democrat Presidents are obsessed with getting the United States bogged down in conflicts in which we have no discernible national interest. They seem to think it's a way to show their Noble Intentions...instead of their Nitwitted Idiocy.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 1:41 PM  

"Lol! Yeah, when they aren't busy purging them or liquidating them."

you're comparing 60 years of russian history... to say... 500 years of russion history.

Newslfash Porky... History didn't start in 1930

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 1:53 PM  

Yeah, let's just forget about the last century. I'm sure THAT'll never happen again. Golly!

Anonymous dh March 09, 2014 1:55 PM  

This is the cost of sacrificing principles for pragmatism. You don't get to claim the moral high ground anymore and no one is going to view you as the good guy. Russia is acting perfectly within its rights: it has permission to station as many as 25,000 troops in the Crimea.

This is ture, but not news. There is no point in US history that I can surmise where the US was seen, internationally, as the good guy. The closest thing would be perhaps in WWII, but I assure your that Germans and Japanese did not see us as the good guys.

Whatever the rhetoric, the policy has always been one of convenience so far as I can see. It was in Vietnam, it was in Iran, it was in the middle easy. Just as it is today.

Blogger Markku March 09, 2014 1:57 PM  

It COULD, but last time what united and motivated Russians was an explicitly atheistic philosophy. This time it is protecting Christianity from the decadent west. As you can see for yourself by reading Pravda regularly.

So, the last century is no more relevant, and quite possibly less, than the other centuries.

Anonymous VD March 09, 2014 1:58 PM  

According to the research of Eli Faber from 1998, he posits that Jews did NOT play a leading role as the financial backers or transporters in the transatlantic or Caribbean slave trades. For starters, no ship fitted out for the slave trade that originated in Great Britain was under the direct or indirect control of a Jew.

Key word: posits. Other key word: "Eli Faber". It should always be kept in mind that like Muslims, Jews tend to practice a form of historical taqqiya. Mr. Faber's research of the slave trade appears to be about as deep as Michelle Malkin's concerning WWII navies.

1. A table of the commissions of brokers in Charleston, South Carolina, shows that one Jewish brokerage accounted for 4% of the commissions. According to Bertram Korn, Jews accounted for 4 of the 44 slave-brokers in Charleston, three of 70 in Richmond, and 1 of 12 in Memphis.

2. Rhode Island, of course, was among the most active Northern colonies in importing slaves. Between 1709 and 1807, Rhode Island merchants sponsored at least 934 slaving voyages to the coast of Africa and carried an estimated 106,544 slaves to the New World. From 1732-64, Rhode Islanders sent annually 18 ships, bearing 1,800 hogsheads of rum, to Africa to trade for slaves, earning 40,000 annually. Newport, the colony's leading slave port, took an estimated 59,070 slaves to America before the Revolution. Bristol and Providence also prospered from it. In the years after the Revolution, Rhode Island merchants controlled between 60 and 90 percent of the American trade in African slaves.

3. Although New York held first place in the settlers of Jews in North America, Newport held second place. ... of 128 Slave ships, for instance, unloaded in Charleston, within one year, their "Cargo," 120 of these were undersigned by Jews from Newport and Charleston by their own name.

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 2:36 PM  

It would appear that the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances has played into the current situation today.

This was reaffirmed in 2009.

Despite the stated intent of the Budapest Memorandum ... placing any trust in leftist world peace initiatives and agreements is readily apparent to be only ink deep and grossly misplaced.

Based hindsight, it would appear that the disarmament of the Ukraine absent of pledged "support" has done nothing to create a stable and sovereign Ukraine nation.

It appears to be nothing more than the continuance of meddlesome policies employed by competing leftist interests.

From Clinton (1994) --> Obama (2009) --> Today

More details can be found here ... Bill Clinton Signed Treaty To Protect Ukraine If They Gave Up Arms – They Listened

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 2:36 PM  

"Yeah, let's just forget about the last century. I'm sure THAT'll never happen again. Golly!"

Even in the last century... and this century we have plenty of examples of the russians siding with Christians. Syria is just one of many.

Pattern recognition Porky.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 2:39 PM  

"Mr. Faber's research of the slave trade appears to be about as deep as Michelle Malkin's concerning WWII navies."

But vox! They never would've been buying those african slaves if the evil southrons didn't want to buy the slaves!

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 2:43 PM  

"It COULD, but last time what united and motivated Russians was an explicitly atheistic philosophy. This time it is protecting Christianity from the decadent west. As you can see for yourself by reading Pravda regularly."

Careful Mate... you're walking right up to that "saying nice things about russians" line... which I'm certain is a hanging offense in your neck of the woods.

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 2:48 PM  

It COULD, but last time what united and motivated Russians was an explicitly atheistic philosophy. This time it is protecting Christianity from the decadent west.

More accurately, it's protecting the Russian Orthodox Church from protestantism. The ROC absolutely HATES protestants.

The ROC patriarch lives in the Kremlin and is basically Putin's lap dog.



Blogger Markku March 09, 2014 2:48 PM  

It would be different if we had our independence, but switching from Luciferian overlords to ones that at least make a pretense of Christianity COULD be an improvement, I've started thinking.

Anonymous Grinder March 09, 2014 2:48 PM  

When are enough white Americans going to wake up? Their gov't is working on exterminating all white nations and replacing them with a heavily mongrelized New World Order. Serbia was punished because it was a friend of Russia and resistent to cosmopolitan globalist values of queer sex, race mixing and massive subhuman invaders/migrants. Russia remains a white nation with a strong Christian heritage and is not willing to sacrifice their national identity on the altar of global governance after the disaster of jewish bolshevism. Western 'success' in Ukraine and then Russia will lead to the last few nations being absorbed into the borglike regional bloc EU, whites being replaced with more controllable muds. You can bet that the brave Ukrainian liberty lovers who are prepared to battle with air rifles and bb guns against fully auto weapons won't be able to enshrine gun rights in their liberated country. Even if they did, it would not last beyond their accession to the EU where dropping them would be a pre-requisite to entry.

Anonymous Grinder March 09, 2014 2:56 PM  

I might be mistaken but I don't believe that defense of Russian Orthodox Christianity is that high a priority. It is merely a convenient way of expressing ones racial awareness in a less politically incorrect way. Jews still hold much power in post-communist Russia, since so many are the new oligarchy.

Anonymous allyn71 March 09, 2014 3:02 PM  

"I might be mistaken but I don't believe that defense of Russian Orthodox Christianity is that high a priority." - Grinder March 09, 2014 2:56 PM

You are mistaken.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 3:03 PM  

"The ROC patriarch lives in the Kremlin and is basically Putin's lap dog. "

Which makes the him politically more powerful than any religious leader in America.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 3:04 PM  

"Jews still hold much power in post-communist Russia, since so many are the new oligarchy."

You are very much mistaken. Russia is doing what Russia has been doing since 1453. This isn't new.

Blogger Serge_Tomiko March 09, 2014 3:04 PM  

Umm. How is some stupid shiny metal going to stave off economic collapse?

A great piece, but the Vox gold fetish completely throws this off.

Gold. Is. Worthless.

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 3:06 PM  

Even in the last century... and this century we have plenty of examples of the russians siding with Christians. Syria is just one of many.

Russia sides with whoever they have a financial or strategic interest in siding with. Period.

Pattern recognition Porky.

Yeah, the pattern is Russia siding with whoever it has a financial or strategic interest in.



Anonymous allyn71 March 09, 2014 3:07 PM  

"Gold. Is. Worthless. " - Serge_Tomiko March 09, 2014 3:04 PM


Yes, of course. Federal Reserve notes are preferable to the barbarous relic that has had worth for over 5,000 years.

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 3:12 PM  

Which makes the him politically more powerful than any religious leader in America.

Oh, I forgot. You actually think political influence peddling is a good thing.

Of course it's not so good if you just want to open a Salvation Army thrift shop in Moscow. Or start a bible study in a park. Or open an evangelical church.



Anonymous Salt March 09, 2014 3:14 PM  

Gold. Is. Worthless.

Yeah, Serge,, and many countries are wasting a lot of paper buying that barbarous relic.

Anonymous A. Nonymous March 09, 2014 3:24 PM  

Anyway, Yankee didn't mean "invader" in the sense of military conquest, but in the sense that Vox calls Mexican and Somalian immigrants "invaders".

I think you mean in the sense that Vox calls Mexican and Somali "immigrants" invaders.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 3:29 PM  

"Gold. Is. Worthless."

That can just be your little secret sugar tits.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 3:31 PM  

"Russia sides with whoever they have a financial or strategic interest in siding with. Period. "

oh... so its a coincidence that it almost always happens to be the christians?

K.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 3:35 PM  

"Oh, I forgot. You actually think political influence peddling is a good thing. "

No. I think it is a useful thing. Like a gun or a knife or a hammer it can be used for good or ill. Its neither the only tool... nor the most important tool. never the less.. it has utilitarian value and therefore is worth having. Though like fire it must be respected and handled carefully.

Blogger Me Guerrero March 09, 2014 3:56 PM  

"Russia remains a white nation with a strong Christian heritage and is not willing to sacrifice their national identity on the altar of global governance after the disaster of jewish bolshevism"

Aside of that, Russia don't do a favor to the White race being an underachiever, the only power they have are natural resources and gas, just like the Arabs, I though the pride of being White is being smarter than other races (except East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews ) , also I don't feel a brotherhood with the Eastern Europeans at all just because their White skin, its science that they have some IQ points lower than Westerners so in intelligence they are more Middle Eastern alike.

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 4:03 PM  

The following article by Volodymyr Vasylenko adds some historical context to today's Ukraine.

I suspect that when cold war tactics are utilized by nwo leftists ... nothing good stands much of a chance of coming from it but solicalist slavery, death and despair.

Rabbits of any crede, color or national origin hate liberty of the individual or of nations ... except for the choosen few.

Mr. Vasylenko expresses this in his closing ... "There is no doubt that the properly informed citizens of Ukraine will say “yes” to our country’s NATO membership and, hence, to their security and the reliable guarantee of their rights, basic freedoms, and wellbeing."

He expresses this hope though it being realized through NATO may have been a necessary stepping stone but certainly didn't represent any semblance of a guarantee.

Interestingly, this was written a little more than 4 years ago.

http://www.day.kiev.ua/en/article/close/assurances-without-guarantees-shelved-document

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 4:07 PM  

Let's try that link again ... href="http://www.day.kiev.ua/en/article/close/assurances-without-guarantees-shelved-document"

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 4:12 PM  

silly me

http://www.day.kiev.ua/en/article/close/assurances-without-guarantees-shelved-document

Note: It might be a worthwhile consideration to include the applicable/permitted html tags with the "NO ANNONYMOUS COMMENTS". Makes for a handy reference.

Anonymous Porky March 09, 2014 4:17 PM  

oh... so its a coincidence that it almost always happens to be the christians?

Oh, no. Of course not, Nate. Russia just wants to make sure all the christians are ok. It's a total coincidence that every place they intervene also just happens to be politically or strategically important.

No. I think it is a useful thing. Like a gun or a knife or a hammer it can be used for good or ill.

Well in Russia it's used to put a boot on the neck of evangelicals.

Freedom of religion to the highest bidder. What a useful thing.

Anonymous fish March 09, 2014 4:33 PM  



Comment. Is. Worthless.

Anonymous fish March 09, 2014 4:34 PM  

Crap!

Gold. Is. Worthless.

Comment. Is. Worthless.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 4:50 PM  

zeRo--Another Jew writes about the slave trade.

Which, in a later work, he retracted because of new scholarship on this topic.


Stilicho--Awesome! You can count to Jew! For extra credit, divide by purple...

I will admit, female emotional responses (I know, redundant) on your part are your forte.


Nate--Round 2 will come up again soon... and you can get your chance to get publicly humiliated then... so be patient.

Counting on another Fort Sumter, sweety?


VD--Jews tend to practice a form of historical taqqiya.


Ah, yes, the old "an axe to grind" retort. So do Christian libertarians, Islamic fundamentalists, liberal professors, conservative pundits, etc. Dig deeper into the research, my friend.

Congratulations on providing three specific historical references. As I acknowledged, those situations occurred, and while your three examples are noteworthy, they were NOT the norm. On average, Jews were the outliers in the slave trade. Perhaps you can write a book refuting the findings of Mr. Faber.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter March 09, 2014 5:31 PM  

"There is no doubt that the properly informed citizens of Ukraine will say “yes” to our country’s NATO membership "

Isn't that a variant of the No True Scotsman fallacy?

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter March 09, 2014 5:32 PM  

" Russia is doing what Russia has been doing since 1453."

Would that be May 29, 1453?

Anonymous MendoScot March 09, 2014 5:42 PM  

What will the epitaph of the American empire be? Some line from Blackmail the Universe?

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."
Oscar Wilde, who can lay claim to two out of three.

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 6:27 PM  

Concerned Rabbit Hunter March 09, 2014 5:31 PM

"There is no doubt that the properly informed citizens of Ukraine will say “yes” to our country’s NATO membership "

Isn't that a variant of the No True Scotsman fallacy?


I suppose, it would depend if a significant number of Ukrainians think being Ukrainian is synonymous with being Russian or not.

It is likely that Ukrainians have been subjected to external influences, manipulation and disinformation. They would be no different than most and from us ... vigilant attentiveness to history, current events and the ability to suspect & recognize meddlesome manipulation and disinformation would be challenging. It might even be more so since their local/national history may have undergone significant revisionism and propagated through their media and national educational system.

Regardless, the salient question might be "Who is the true Ukrainian? The Russian or Ukrainian?"

Anonymous clk March 09, 2014 6:33 PM  

When the ukrainians sent all their nukes back to russia, what was the agreement between russia and ukraine ? Any one know ? Thats whats should be informative to the whole affair ... dont give up the nukes.

Anonymous 11B March 09, 2014 6:55 PM  

Since we are discussing Crimea, and American slavery has come up, here is an interesting factoid.

Until the late 18th century, Crimean Tatars maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. About 2 million slaves from Russia and Ukraine were sold over the period 1500–1700. Tatars were known for frequent, at some periods almost annual, devastating raids on the Slavic peoples to the north. In 1769 a last major Tatar raid, which took place during the Russo-Turkish War, saw the capture of 20,000 slaves.[

Two million is a hell of a lot. Yet, I was never taught this in school. Throw in another million or so Euros who were captured in the Med by the North Africans, and I think you could make most white Americans downright lose their guilt complex. So I guess this will never be in your kid's curriculum.

BTW, One of the links to the footnotes in that wiki quote points out the Jewish role in this trade. I wonder if that is another reason why anti-Semitism runs high in that part of world.

Anonymous Harold March 09, 2014 7:10 PM  

“the territorial integrity of nation-states.” But Ukraine is not a nation-state and that’s the problem.

OpenID cailcorishev March 09, 2014 7:26 PM  

Oh, no. Of course not, Nate. Russia just wants to make sure all the christians are ok. It's a total coincidence that every place they intervene also just happens to be politically or strategically important.

As opposed to the United States, which mostly seems interested in intervening in places which are not strategically important but provide an opportunity to kick some Christians in the teeth.

Anonymous 11B March 09, 2014 7:30 PM  

Aside of that, Russia don't do a favor to the White race being an underachiever, the only power they have are natural resources and gas, just like the Arabs, I though the pride of being White is being smarter than other races (except East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews ) , also I don't feel a brotherhood with the Eastern Europeans at all just because their White skin, its science that they have some IQ points lower than Westerners so in intelligence they are more Middle Eastern alike.

I don't think the Russians are like Arabs with oil. The Russians were the first to put a man in space and they have been putting people in space continually since Gagarain. They also have the ability to manufacture aircraft. The Russians have contributed much to science over the past two hundred years, not to mention in the arts like literature, and ballet.

They are surprisingly civilized and competent given the bulk of their history has been staving off invaders from almost every direction. Add to that the taking of millions of them as slaves, their massive loss of life during WW2, and the social damages done to them by 70 years of communism, I am rather surprised they are functioning as well as they are.

As for the larger group of Eastern Europeans, I do feel a brotherhood with them. Except for Bosniaks and Albanian muslims, you have to remember that those Easter Europeans you think so lowly of did not convert to islam while occupied by the Ottomans like the aforementioned two. As a result the Ottomans were not able to push farther into Europe bringing with them their brand of diversity. That would not happen until five hundred years later when the high IQ Western Europeans decided to open the gates.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why Eastern Euros are looked down upon today. They prevented the high IQ Western Euros from benefiting from muslim diversity.

Anonymous VD March 09, 2014 7:36 PM  

Umm. How is some stupid shiny metal going to stave off economic collapse?

Because the Ukrainian gold can be used to conceal the fact that the USA can't deliver the gold it supposedly possesses to Germany and other countries that have demanded it.

As I acknowledged, those situations occurred, and while your three examples are noteworthy, they were NOT the norm.

This is the norm, by definition: "Rhode Island merchants controlled between 60 and 90 percent of the American trade in African slaves."

Now, who were those Rhode Island merchants in Newport? Some were Gentile and some were Jewish. What is the breakdown according to Mr. Faber? What are the facts, opposed to what Mr. Faber "posits"?

Do you know what "posit" means?

Ah, yes, the old "an axe to grind" retort.

When a group of people openly operate by the metric: "is it good for the Jews", that automatically calls into question anything and everything they publicly claim. I've already shown that Mr. Faber's revisionist positing is not in line with the historical facts.

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 8:02 PM  

The first recorded slaveowner was Anthony Johnson ... as to the verity of the information regarding Mr. Johnson, as well as other points made in the wiki source ... I would think "Colonist" would be a point of contention ... unless not going back to Africa made one a "Colonist".

Anthony Johnson first recorded slaveowner in the New World

Anonymous YIH March 09, 2014 8:37 PM  

@David of one:
Most Blogger blogs do. But for reference:
{i}italic{/i}
{b}bold{/b}
{a href="http://voxday.blogspot.com"}http://voxday.blogspot.com/{/a}
My opinion on this is ''we'' (the US/EU and it's overlords) need to butt out.
Ukraine is no ''prize'' to 'be won'; Size and climate of France with Greek politics.
The 'EU' already has a Greece, another one is not going to help.

Anonymous David of One March 09, 2014 8:54 PM  

Thank you YIH ... it would seem that Google really has disdain for bloggers being that the blogging/posting side is damned rudimentary. Archaic in the extreme so as to be suspect.

As to butting out, we are in agreement ... especially as it appears the Ukraine was being meddled with from the outset of their most recent "independence" (~1991) ... cold war style ... US/UK/Russian "assurances".

Blogger Whiskey March 09, 2014 9:22 PM  

Machiavelli writes that it is critical that your own populace be convinced of the morality of the Prince's policies, but not that they in and of themselves be moral.

Morality? What is more moral, firebombing cities and dropping nukes to end the killing as quickly as possible, or minimizing civilian casualties so the killing just goes on and on and on?

US policy towards Kosovo was stupid. Not because it was immoral but because it gained us nothing other than a moral crusade and feel-good moment for the Clintons amidst Monica's Blue Dress. The US as Hegemon (that's gone now) had a need to keep the status quo intact, because the status quo was good for the US and its people. Kosovo, East Timor, South Sudan, etc. were of no real importance any more than Sri Lanka's Civil War was or the Central African Wars. By contrast, the choke points of SE Asia and Indonesia for shipping is important for the US because it was, the world's leading maritime power with a vested interest in keeping control of this vital shipping lane choke points open, see also the Persian Gulf.

It is remarkable just how bad the Clintons were in hindsight. But "morality?" Please. That's a fool's game, because you can slice it six ways to Sunday. Was Churchill "moral" in letting Coventry get destroyed so he could keep the Ultra secret, that the British had broken the Nazi codes? Ultra was a key factor in keeping Hitler deceived about Normandy, he was convinced for over a week it was nothing but a feint to distract from Pas de Calais. Thus a Panzer division was frozen in place to keep it from throwing the Allies back into the sea.

Or was Churchill and Ike/FDR/Truman moral or not by refusing to bomb railways serving the death camps and instead focus on war-fighting stuff to end the war as quickly as possible?

Morality and foreign policy? No possibility of having any relation. At all.

Blogger Whiskey March 09, 2014 9:36 PM  

Anti Semitism is just another factor of hatred for Smart People. Amy Chua's beloved aunt was murdered by a Filipino Maid, and the Filipino police never really looked hard for her killer either. Anti-Chinese sentiment in Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia etc. mirrors that of anti-Semitism. In both cases, hatred of the smart by the stupid.

Looking to blame Jews collectively for the failure of a few is like blaming all Germans for Hitler, including those just born; or all Russians for Stalin and Beria, or all Italians for the Borgias, or all Americans for Lt. Calley. Those quick to condemn the Jews never acknowledge all the good done: medicine and science and peace-keeping. Indeed, the Jewish contribution to the Atomic bomb is one reason why the second half of the Twentieth Century was no longer convulsed by massive industrial warfare as War became too destructive even for industrial nations. Once both sides had nukes.

Blood Guilt thinking is one of the lesser attractive parts of Christianity, "the Jews killed Jesus and deserve it!" emotionalism. Generally a Catholic heritage, given that Protestants who read the Bible tend to identify with Jews who are the heroes of the Old Testament and the New makes the point that Jesus was indeed, a Jew. I guess Jesus sacrifice for all mankind no longer counts or something, because Jews are smart.

If you look hard enough, you can find blame upon all peoples: Scots, Irish, Germans, Italians, Spaniards, Japanese, Americans, Canadians, Australians, Kiwis, Russians etc. Being human none are without a bloody history.

This is why those opposed to Multiculturalism always fail. They engage in pointless blame-games of various ethnicities and races: Jews or Germans or Russians or English or Dutch etc. And never embrace pan-European identity and solidarity. The other side has something even if its stupid: the Colors of Benetton. No one wants a "blame the Jews" program because it never stops with them. It always goes on to one giant witch-hunt for purity.

Speaking as someone as impure as it gets, that's not attractive.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 9:37 PM  

"total coincidence that every place they intervene also just happens to be politically or strategically important."

Mate... when you've had a people's back for going on 600 years... there tends to be a lot of goodwill. The fact is you are simply historically ignorant. The reason its economically beneficial is because of long term cooperation that goes back centuries.

Educate yourself on the history of eastern europe. This ain't complicated.

Blogger Desert Cat March 09, 2014 9:43 PM  

Markku! As a Finn, your pondering is flabbergasting!

Not that I disagree with the ponder, but...history.

Blogger Desert Cat March 09, 2014 9:44 PM  

That is, to say, "coming from a Finn"...

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 9:51 PM  

“This is the norm, by definition: "Rhode Island merchants controlled between 60 and 90 percent of the American trade in African slaves."

Sir, 
the statistic you cited is AFTER the American Revolution, not before, and focuses on only one particular region. Indeed, from 1709-1807, there are 934 recorded voyages in which Rhode Island merchants were responsible for procuring 106,000 slaves. Now, Jews arrived in Newport as early as 1858. On the eve of the Revolution, they were estimated to be around thirty families. According to historical records Faber used (e.g. naval office shipping lists, censuses, tax records) that identified merchants and planters as Jewish, there were 347 slave ships sent to Africa by Rhode Island slave traders from 1761-1774, with 21 being funded by Aaron Lopez, a Portuguese Jew. That means 326 voyages were underwritten by non-Jews during this time frame. Of course, Jews played a role in the peddling of human flesh. The extent in this particular case is nominal compared to other ethnic groups.

Regardless, one also has to take into serious consideration the other northern ports that imported slaves as well as their ethnicity. Rhode Island is only part of the overall picture.


“When a group of people openly operate by the metric: "is it good for the Jews", that automatically calls into question anything and everything they publicly claim.”

Sir, a number of your blog posts have made direct or indirect reference to policies which, in your estimation, are “good for Libertarians” or “good for Christians”. Based on your own standard, what you profess is also subject to intense scrutiny. Perhaps you ought to avoid standing by that specific criteria.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2014 10:35 PM  

"Sir, a number of your blog posts have made direct or indirect reference to policies which, in your estimation, are “good for Libertarians” or “good for Christians”. Based on your own standard, what you profess is also subject to intense scrutiny. Perhaps you ought to avoid standing by that specific criteria."

Well I for one don't give a tankers damn how many were brought here by jews. It is however abundantly clear that they were all brought here by yankees.

So who was making the money off the slaves there yankee boy?

And how about we get into the sales tactics? See all you ever hear about is the auctions where crazed southrons were bidding like crazy on darkie flesh.

'cept that's not really how it worked at all. Especially by the 1840s it was abundantly clear that slaves were not an economically viable way to run things. First of all slaves were seriously... seriously expensive. Taking care of them was also seriously expensive. Many states, like louisianna for example, had strict regulations on how slaves could be treated, how many hours a day they could work, how many meals they had, and what kind of living quarters and medical treatment they got.

In fact its quite clear that slaves in louisianna were far better off than the supposed "free men" who moved north and ended up in debt to the company store.

Late in the game... the slavers were barely able to sell their slaves at all... and would threaten the towns people by saying, "Fine... if you don't buy them... we're going to give them guns and turn them loose. How about that?"

But yeah... Keep right on thinking that everything is the fault of the mean old south.

Anonymous bob k. mando March 09, 2014 10:39 PM  

bob k. mando March 09, 2014 11:43 AM
you seem to have a delusional view of history which, conveniently, excludes the knowledge that there were slaves in the north ...


Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 11:55 AM
No shit, Sherlock.



so you consider it obvious that the historical view you presented to us is delusional?

how does this not amount to tacit admission that you're just trolling us?

you admit that yankees and brits were responsible for importing negroes and instituting the slave system ...
then you try to shit all over southerners because they made do with the situation that had been left too them by others?




Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 11:56 AM
You did the murdering and raping and "converting".



because the yankees didn't murder or rape any of their cargo. nor did they send any missionaries to Africa ...

heck, they didn't even look in their own holds, the better to preserve their delicate innocence. they had the muslims load the cargo, they'd toss food through the open hatches once a day and they'd hose the hold down after the southerners offloaded.

yankees didn't even get their pinkies dirty.




mattse001 March 09, 2014 1:10 PM
if Crimea is so pro-Russia, why did the Russian navy have to blockade the Ukrainian navy from escaping?


what the hell does political sentiment amongst the population of Crimea have to do with orders to the Ukrainian fleet?

you think the US fleet in Guantanamo gives a fuck what Castro thinks?

Anonymous joetexx March 09, 2014 11:08 PM  

"Rhode Island merchants controlled between 60 and 90 percent of the American trade in African slaves."

Hmmm! Were H. P. Lovecrafts ancestors slaver?

I read De Camp's bio years atom but can't remember the specifics of the family's economic background.

His father was a traveling salesman of precious metals and jewels.
Wiki says his grandfather was a "wealthy businessman" but doesn't specify the business nor whether the grandfather was maternal or paternal.

Certainly HPL was steeped in all aspects of his hometown's weird history. He appears to have disliked blacks much more than did his southern friends such as Texan Robert E. Howard. He was rabidly pro Confederate and the 'n-word' never far from his lips.

He ended some of his essays and letters with 'long live His Majesty's colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations!'

Anonymous Bobo March 10, 2014 12:39 AM  

"Many states, like louisianna for example, had strict regulations on how slaves could be treated, how many hours a day they could work, how many meals they had, and what kind of living quarters and medical treatment they got."

Still have these regs in place here in La. fo' da color't folk... But now it's called SNAP, WIC, Section 8, & MedicAid.

Anonymous 11B March 10, 2014 2:10 AM  

Indeed, the Jewish contribution to the Atomic bomb is one reason why the second half of the Twentieth Century was no longer convulsed by massive industrial warfare as War became too destructive even for industrial nations. Once both sides had nukes.

Yeah, we know who we can thank for the other side getting nukes, don't we? Maybe giving nukes to the communists prevented another WW2. But maybe giving nukes to the communists gave them ability to agitate in Korea, Vietnam and elsewhere knowing full well that our response would have to be contingent upon avoiding all out war. A lot of Americans paid the price in Korea and Vietnam.

By the way, since you seem to support the giving of the A bomb to the communists because, as you put it, "once both sides had nukes", war would become too costly, then it reasons you should not oppose Iranians getting nukes to ensure both sides in the ME also face the same deterrent.

Anonymous David of One March 10, 2014 2:29 AM  

OT and for those keeping count ... href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-09/global-debt-exceeds-100-trillion-as-governments-binge-bis-says.html" >Global debt exceeds $100T ... nearly 50% increase since mid-2007

"... the most credit-worthy bonds returned more than 31 percent since 2007 ..."

So if the US has about $18T, does this equate to the rest of the world's share is about $82T?

Anonymous David of One March 10, 2014 2:32 AM  

darn ... Global debt exceeds $100T ... nearly 50% increase since mid-2007

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 10, 2014 9:09 AM  

“you admit that yankees and brits were responsible for importing negroes and instituting the slave system...”

They met demand. They meet a particular need. Christian values, meet massive profits!


“then you try to shit all over southerners because they made do with the situation that had been left too them by others?”



Southrons need no help shitting on themselves. The situation was mutual beneficial, with one side (Southrons) decidedly creating that situation by growing cash crops and using Negro labor as the means to generate enormous amounts of income.


“so you consider it obvious that the historical view you presented to us is delusional?”

No, I consider the portrayal here as being just a wee-bit inaccurate.


“because the yankees didn't murder or rape any of their cargo. nor did they send any missionaries to Africa...”

Never made any such claim, nor would I refute this statement. But once slaves arrived to the colonies and later the states, and were sold to whites who lived in the Upper and Lower South by the boatload, let’s just say the southron’s natural proclivities kicked in.


“See all you ever hear about is the auctions where crazed southrons were bidding like crazy on darkie flesh.”


Assuaged guilt on your part. Slave auctions increasingly became a southern attraction; by 1800, Annapolis, Richmond, and Charleston were noted for their hospitality in preparing Negros for the comforts of a southern lifestyle.


“Especially by the 1840s it was abundantly clear that slaves were not an economically viable way to run things.”

That’s what they teach you in ‘Bama? Listen, son, the production of cotton by 1840 accounted for HALF of all American exports, with the Southrons producing close to seventy percent for British clothiers. The majority of the masters were of modest means, owning between 8-14 slaves, working alongside their “property”, yet touted their racial superiority and vigorously defending the “peculiar institution”. The slave system was NOT economically moribund; rather it was thriving. From 1840-1860, the South’s per income capita dramatically increased than the North and West combined. The trend on the eve of the Civil War for slavery was decidedly upward.


“Many states, like louisianna for example, had strict regulations on how slaves could be treated, how many hours a day they could work, how many meals they had, and what kind of living quarters and medical treatment they got.”

Massa, thank you, massa, for my three meager squares and the leaky roof over my shack. Thank you massa, God gives you praise, for sparing me the whip on my worst days.

Of course slave owners took into careful consideration what was in their best financial interest, and it was in their interest to ensure basic care was provided. The laws, however, would not necessarily consistently followed.


"Late in the game... the slavers were barely able to sell their slaves at all... and would threaten the towns people by saying, "Fine... if you don't buy them... we're going to give them guns and turn them loose. How about that?"

Please cite specific evidence that this action was a regular occurrence in the South prior to the Civil War or retract your claim.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 10, 2014 9:17 AM  

"In fact its quite clear that slaves in louisianna were far better off than the supposed "free men" who moved north and ended up in debt to the company store."

I certainly would love for you to offer evidence to support this claim, considering an 1850 publication provided slaveholders with guidance on how to produce the "ideal slave":

1. Maintain strict discipline and unconditional submission.
2. Create a sense of personal inferiority, so that slaves "know their place."
3. Instill fear.
4. Teach servants to take interest in their master's enterprise.
5. Deprive access to education and recreation, to ensure that slaves remain uneducated,
helpless and dependent.

Of course, it goes without saying that those northerners who had owned slaves prior to it being outlawed in the northern states also followed this advice. It's just that the Southron had decidedly more practice in these areas.

Anonymous Bobo March 10, 2014 9:57 AM  

Yank-
From your blathering, I gather that you either:
A) don't live in a very vibrant area or interact with such regularly, or
B) do live in a very vibrant area, and blame us Southrons because our ancestors didn't pick our own cotton, or
C) you're just an irritating Yankee prick.

Anonymous Porky March 10, 2014 11:38 AM  

The reason its economically beneficial is because of long term cooperation that goes back centuries.

I might take your notion seriously if there were any consistency to it. But the fact is Russia has been just as willing to fight orthodox christian Georgia as it has been to fight islamic Chechnya.

It's about pipelines, oil, gas, and regional control, Nate. And it always will be.

As Vox has exhaustively shown, religion is very rarely the driving force for armed conflict, even if it is often a convenient foil for unity.

Blogger Marissa March 10, 2014 4:41 PM  

From your blathering, I gather that you either:
A) don't live in a very vibrant area or interact with such regularly, or
B) do live in a very vibrant area, and blame us Southrons because our ancestors didn't pick our own cotton, or
C) you're just an irritating Yankee prick.


You say that like they're mutually exclusive. I'm going with C since my (and most living people's) Southron ancestors didn't own slaves; they just didn't want some Option Cs invading their homeland and unleashing the vibrants.

Anonymous bob k. mando March 10, 2014 7:54 PM  

Yankee Imperialist March 10, 2014 9:09 AM
Never made any such claim,
...
let’s just say the southron’s natural proclivities kicked in.



yet your entire *act* here is predicated around creating the IMPRESSION that that is what you meant, that white christian southerners are somehow uniquely guilty, that they created a sin never before seen in the history of the world.

you aren't by chance jewish, are you?

your constant statements of misleading intent ( which, 'strangely', follow exactly down the crypto-marxist characterization of history ) is obviously too well crafted to be unintentional.

much like a Michael Moore movie, there is too much delicate editing and splicing of facts out of context for you to be simply mistaken and confused.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 10, 2014 9:09 PM  

Bobo, Marissa, and Bob, your rhetoric is showing.


"that white christian southerners are somehow uniquely guilty, that they created a sin never before seen in the history of the world."

Nope, just pointing out that "da Joos", compared to other ethnic groups, were on the outskirts of slavery in the Thirteen Colonies, and just signaling how southron business endeavors were the mitigating circumstances behind the growth of slavery. Most assuredly, the North had blood on their hands. But it was the Southron who, shall we say, greased the skids and did the heavy lifting.

Bravo, for a job well-done.


"you aren't by chance jewish, are you?"

you aren't by chance a southron, are you? :)

Anonymous bob k. mando March 10, 2014 11:06 PM  

Yankee Imperialist March 10, 2014 9:09 PM
Bobo, Marissa, and Bob, your rhetoric is showing.



"our rhetoric" is showing?

you quit trying to white wash the yankees, the brits, the jews and the entire rest of the planet for all the slaving they did and we'll worry about "our rhetoric".

you're the douchefag who brought up the irrelevancy of slavery in the first place.

IF
you actually believe that it should be a positive principle that peoples should be able to democratically determine their own fate, that they should be able to secede from a .gov which they do not approve of
THEN
you must admit that they might sometimes wish to do so for reasons that you might not personally approve of ( such as the right to murder your sister if she dishonors you by getting raped ).


IF you assert that 'democracy' is the highest ideal THEN you will demand:
the elimination or reform of the UN, such that no 'ambassadors' get a vote, only elected representatives

Kosovo and the Serb majority areas of Croatia and Bosnia be left to Serbia and that Bill Clinton be prosecuted for war crimes

the return of Hawai'i to the Hawaiians

etc, etc


it's strange how reliably libs and neocons favor this dismemberment of culturally Christian nations and the preservation or enlargement of all others.

it's almost as if there was a guiding ideology at work ....



Yankee Imperialist March 10, 2014 9:09 PM
you aren't by chance a southron, are you? :)



all my family is from IN and i graduated from a Hoosier high school but due to the vagary of my father attending La Tourneau Uni i was born in TX. i don't remember anything of Longview though, as we left before i was one.

so no, not in any way that Nate would recognize.

doesn't really matter though. deep southerners ( GA, AL, FL crackers, SC ) are delightfully provincial.

i have a friend from SC. we went to a race track outside of Charleston ( Summerville ). after the race, Legette went on and on about the announcer's "accent" and how annoying and nasal it was. i told him that i was sorry but ... to my yankee ears, the two of them sounded the same.

at which time i was informed about the existence of the Santee river, about the fact that the South Carolinians from the north and south sides of the river speak mutually distinguishable dialects ...

and that they despise each other.

and God forbid you be from another southern state.

but Legette gets along with me.

*shrugs*


i'm not sure if Legette and Masshole Bob ever got together but i think they would have liked each other as well.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 11, 2014 12:02 AM  

"you're the douchefag who brought up the irrelevancy of slavery in the first place."

Actually, my inquiry was proper in light of VD's context--"And the USA murdered hundreds of thousands in order to forcibly "keep the Union together" and deny the sovereign Southern States their right to self-determination."

Slavery was an integral part of that specific equation, and even southrons who owned slaves openly questioned secession--Governor Sam Houston prophetically told his fellow Texans their future--“Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win [but] I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union [and] when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche; and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South”.

South Carolinian James L. Petrigru argued that, "It is an odd feeling to be in the midst of joy and gratulations that one does not feel. On the contrary, it is a feeling of deep sadness that settles on my mind. The universal applause that waits on secessionists and secession has not the slightest tendency to shake my conviction that we are on the road to ruin."

Ironically, the Confederate Constitution mirrored the U.S. Constitution, and the problems that beset the South were in part due to states unwilling to provided centralized authority led by Jefferson Davis with much needed revenue and material support to properly fund the war.


Now, regarding self-determination and "secession" today, duly noted by your rant. I had to wipe my brow from your spittle. Offer me a hanky next time if you are going to go full Sylvester.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 11, 2014 12:05 AM  

"it's strange how reliably libs and neocons favor this dismemberment of culturally Christian nations and the preservation or enlargement of all others."


Me, a lib? Or (gasp), a neo-con? Nope, I am an American.

Anonymous Sam March 11, 2014 3:59 AM  

Yankee Imperialist March 09, 2014 10:43 AM
"...While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants and jackbooted them into submission in the name of God and in the interest of mammon..."

I'll be glad to take on the burden of being from a group of evil slave holders as long as you take responsibility for the government now. It's yours after all. The whole American Empire is your doing not mine.

Blogger Marissa March 11, 2014 3:16 PM  

Most assuredly, the North had blood on their hands. But it was the Southron who, shall we say, greased the skids and did the heavy lifting.

The North sure didn't mind all that blood money from Southern tariffs. They preferred to outsource the dirty work to others.

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 11, 2014 6:41 PM  

"I'll be glad to take on the burden of being from a group of evil slave holders as long as you take responsibility for the government now."

Warts and all, our system of government is inherently preferable. Perhaps you can take ownership by helping to make reforms.


"The North sure didn't mind all that blood money from Southern tariffs."

Nothing earth shattering here with your comment. Your point?


"They preferred to outsource the dirty work to others."

Care to elaborate, missy?

Blogger Tom Kratman March 12, 2014 3:00 AM  

What the hell, I wasn't going to address this, since I've already made my case, long since, that it really didn't matter in the slightest if secession was legal or illegal, under such rules as existed in the day, because war was perfectly permissible in either case, either to subdue a rebellion or to conquer a foreign country, and no state - which is to say all the southern states - that enthusiastically supported the Mexican War could really object to waging war to conquer a foreign country.

Blogger Marissa March 12, 2014 12:18 PM  

My elaboration: you want to deny the North's guilt, yet they profited immensely from the South's heavy lifting.

This was your quote, conveniently denying the North's love of mammon:

While Southrons viciously imported millions of vibrants and jackbooted them into submission in the name of God and in the interest of mammon. I say the ancestors of Nate and Josh got what they deserved.

By your logic, the entire country which profited from slavery deserved to be murdered by the hundreds of thousands by invaders. Do you stand by your own statement? The North that greedily sucked at the teat of black (and white) enslavement also deserves what the South got?



Anonymous bob k. mando March 12, 2014 2:32 PM  

debating him is a waste of time.

i've already demonstrated that he has no intention of dealing honestly with the matter.

and there can be no honest debate with someone who will lie and manipulate to any extent they think necessary in order to 'win' the argument.

"Ain’t nothing like a damn Yankee for smarmy hypocrisy. They can spit it out in chunks like saw logs. A Yankee can’t open his mouth without preaching about how everybody else ought to do something he won’t do himself. "
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Dixie.shtml

Anonymous bob k. mando March 12, 2014 2:38 PM  

also relevant when dealing with effeminate behavior:
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/03/violence-deep-emotion-and-rational-talk/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MarriedManSexLife+%28Married+Man+Sex+Life%29
"The answer is simple, because as long as the Rational Talk gets her what she wants, she uses Rational Talk. But when it doesn’t, that’s when she goes to Deep Emotion to win the argument.

In those cases, Deep Emotional just looks irrational, in fact it’s an incredibly rational strategy that totally, totally works. In fact it would be irrational of her not to be so irrational. Two wrongs make her right
."

Anonymous Yankee Imperialist March 12, 2014 9:58 PM  

“My elaboration: you want to deny the North's guilt...”

Carefully re-read my comments, dear, for I lay proper blame for northerners for their actions. Perhaps in your emotional haste you inconveniently glossed over my statements.


“By your logic, the entire country which profited from slavery deserved to be murdered by the hundreds of thousands by invaders.”

No, honey, that is NOT my logic, that is your irrational thoughts. You are right (for once), Marissa is deeply emotional. Remember who is chiefly responsible for those “invaders” on our shores and their subsequent problems.


“i've already demonstrated that he has no intention of dealing honestly with the matter.”

I acknowledge your concession to my justified arguments. Takes a man to admit one’s error.

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