ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2020 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Tuesday, March 11, 2014

There is no "ADHD"

A doctor with more than 50 years of medical practice asserts that ADHD is an umbrella of symptoms, not a disease in itself. And he also declares that the treatment can be considerably worse than many of the underlying causes.
Back in the Seventies, I believed in ADHD. It seemed to explain the attention issues that affected so many children. But over the years I've come to realise that the symptoms actually had a whole range of underlying causes that were being ignored because of the knee-jerk diagnosis of ADHD. As I argue in my new book on the subject - which has generated a furious controversy in America, where I work as a behavioural neurologist - we've become stuck in a cycle of misdiagnosis of ADHD and over-prescription of stimulants such as Ritalin. Only by properly investigating, identifying and treating these causes can we help our patients.

In the case of the 13-year-old boy, I ordered a series of blood tests. These showed he had an iron deficiency: after school, while his mother was out at work, he binged on junk food that was high in sugar but low in iron.

Iron deficiency (anaemia) causes physical fatigue, poor attention and concentration, and memory problems. As soon as his iron intake improved, with iron pills and more fish, fruit, vegetables and nuts, his performance and behaviour improved hugely, too.

The ADHD diagnosis and the stimulants had masked the real problem, as is so often the case. In France, a study in 2004 found 84 per cent of children diagnosed with ADHD were iron deficient, compared with 18 per cent of 'non-ADHD' children. Yet time and time again, doctors miss the real problems - some serious, some easily correctable - by automatically reaching for the ADHD label.

In my book, I identify more than 20 causes of the symptoms that are called ADHD.... Many ADHD patients have other conditions, such as depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. These are said to 'co-exist' with ADHD, but in my view they're the actual cause of the 'ADHD' symptoms. Treat them and you will treat the ADHD.

Failing to treat them and pumping the patient with stimulants instead only makes things worse. The side-effects of stimulants include reduced appetite (dangerous for children, who need a good diet), sleep disturbance (tiredness can exacerbate attention problems), anxiety, irritability, depressed moods, delayed puberty and, in adults, sexual problems (such as erectile dysfunction). And long-term use of stimulants makes people resistant to them, meaning they need higher and higher doses. The drugs can damage memory and concentration, and have even been linked to reduced life expectancy and suicide. Yet stimulants are being prescribed more and more frequently, creating a health time bomb and neglecting the real causes of the problems.

A seven-year-old girl was brought to me because she was disruptive in class, fidgeted and talked loudly. She had been diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderall (similar to Ritalin), but it caused sleeping problems that made her more disruptive.

I had her eyesight tested and she was found to be significantly near-sighted: her disruptive behaviour in class stemmed from boredom, brought about by the fact she could not see the board properly. Once she was given glasses, her behaviour improved almost overnight. She no longer had 'ADHD' - or rather, she never had it in the first place. Similarly, many 'distracted' children who stare out of the window, are, in fact, suffering from eye strain and need glasses, not stimulants.
No one has ever believed that having little kids snort cocaine and smoke meth was a good idea. So how did anyone ever come to buy into the idiot concept that giving them speed was medically sound?

I always considered "ADHD" to be complete BS. One boy with a supposed case of it was magically cured and never had any trouble controlling his behavior around me after I picked him up by the throat and told him that if he ever kicked me again, I'd rip his balls off and feed them to him.

Labels:

121 Comments:

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 11, 2014 6:37 AM  

"These showed he had an iron deficiency: after school, while his mother was out at work, he binged on junk food that was high in sugar but low in iron."

The correct diagnosis lies in the phrase "while his mother was out at work". That is the root of these issues: little children need to be with their mothers, and their mothers need to be with them, and feminists who lie and spread all sorts of poison about "having it all" are the problem. If you work in a coal mine, then your chief concerns have to do with extracting coal and doing it in a reasonably safe way. Your concerns are not about growing experimental bacteria cultures in a test tube, that is somebody else's concern. If you are a mother, then you don't have another career, your career is being a mother, and attention to anything else is dereliction of duty. And an economic system that does not recognize this is suicidal in nature. As we in fact observe.

Blogger Rantor March 11, 2014 6:38 AM  

The school system is big at promoting this. It is my understanding that ADHD is considered a handicap, and the schools in the US get federal money for their handicapped students. Of course big pharma supports the science behind this, they love selling us drugs. Wether Ritalin or a Statin, they want you addicted to something for the rest of your life. Got to keep the money rolling in.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 March 11, 2014 6:43 AM  

I'd like to just add that there is a slab of statistical evidence that just being outdoors improves eyesight - and, you guessed it - there is no causal explanation as to why!

So early to bed early to rise, an apple a day, fresh air, chores, discipline, family games etc..etc.

Who needs the ways of God, when you can have a career in medicine and drive a Ferrari......

Blogger Ron March 11, 2014 6:54 AM  

One boy with a supposed case of it was magically cured and never had any trouble controlling his behavior around me after I...

Southpark cure!

Anonymous Toby Temple March 11, 2014 7:01 AM  

But ADHD is true! Because of the children! Think of the children!

And Big Pharma, too!

Blogger Ron March 11, 2014 7:02 AM  

@scoobius

The correct diagnosis lies in the phrase "while his mother was out at work".

what's missing from most kids lives

Anonymous bw March 11, 2014 7:08 AM  

It has always been simply an excuse for mal-adjusted, bored children.
The Pharm Corp offers the excuse, and the bad parents and schooling authorities lap up the excuses.
Gov't schools have always been paid a finders fee for the drug dealing.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni March 11, 2014 7:10 AM  

I see. So one nonexistent disease (ADHD) is actually one or more other nonexistent diseases: "depression" "bipolar syndrome" or "schizophrenia"?? Does no one read Thomas Szasz any more.

I did like the hints about hearing loss, poor eyesight and lack of sleep. Those seem real problems, if not as sexy as a new disease. But without a responsible adult who loves him around, how is a boy ever to realize that he can't do just whatever he wants? As VD points out, fear is the best medicine. That's how boys have always learned the limits to their natural aggression.

Blogger Ron March 11, 2014 7:10 AM  

Btw, I referenced the south park video because this subject reminds me of it and I thought it was funny.

I know someone else who used Vox's method of disciplining an obnoxious brat that kicks people and it worked just as effectively. So it must be science, and who can argue with science?

Anonymous Toby Temple March 11, 2014 7:17 AM  

This is due to the fact the most people are lazy: MPAL

Lazy mom: My child is uncontrollable!
Big Pharma Doc: Your child has ADHD.
Lazy mom: What do I do?
Big Pharma Doc: Here. Give your kid this drug and he/she will be A-OKay!
Lazy mom: YES! Thank you doctor!

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 7:21 AM  

I was never at all hyper, but I was diagnosed as an adult with the "it's hard to focus on one thing" variety. Speed did seem to help -- instead of making me feel wired, it seemed to smooth things out and slow down the mental racing from one thing to another. However, it seemed to numb the emotions too, which doesn't seem so good, and some of the other side effects -- especially extreme dehydration -- were unpleasant, so I stopped taking it after a while.

I still think there's probably a real condition there, at least in some cases, where some brains are just wired differently and don't react well to today's information overload. But taking a pretty strong drug for your entire life doesn't seem like a good answer, and at least in my case, it can be countered with mental discipline. When I get called in on an emergency job, I can focus completely on it for hours until I'm done. So my mind can focus; it just tends to wander when tight focus isn't necessary. Same thing with these kids who cause trouble in class: they could sit still if they really wanted to, but they're undisciplined and bored and insulted by the system.

Oh, and one thing I learned from the experience: if you have any knowledge of ADD at all -- say, 10 minutes reading about the symptoms -- it's trivially easy to pass the "test" for it and get the prescription. So when I read about stockbrokers and other high-intensity workers all being on ADD meds, I'm not surprised. Anyone who wants to can get the diagnosis.

Anonymous Cranberry March 11, 2014 7:26 AM  

Scoob, I thought the exact same thing when I read that.

Mom out at work says it all. The kids in my school who had behavior problems, girls or boys, were usually latchkey kids who went home to empty houses or to a babysitter's house. Aftercare programs are prolific now but such a thing did not exist when I was in grammar school in the mid-80s.

School officials wanted to medicate my husband when he was a kid. His dad was a welder, and his job took him to industrial sites all over the East coast, and sometimes he was gone for months at a stretch. His mom, and old-school Ukrainian and a nurse, wanted nothing to do with drugs, so she doubled-down on parenting until dad came home to tell him to get his act together.

This is a compound problem: mom at work, dad at work, or no dad in picture at all. THAT is a far greater determinant of a child's behavior and even of his nutrition as being sufficient. Someone has to be around to care holistically, or the whole child falls apart.

Blogger Jason Roberts March 11, 2014 7:28 AM  

These conditions are caused by an iron deficiency which is really a result of women no longer cooking real meals for their families.

Anonymous Cranberry March 11, 2014 7:33 AM  

Cail, I wonder how anyone can get anything done in this modern environment, unless they work for themselves in a specific type of industry and can call the shots.

I've always had so many projects going on and tasks being thrown at me that I've never had any peace to just sit and sort them out into a list of priorities. It's too fast-paced, and everyone wants something from you now, or they expect you to magically deduce the priority of a task so they don't have to think about it. But that's venturing into a different topic altogether.

Anonymous Stingray March 11, 2014 8:00 AM  

It is my understanding that ADHD is considered a handicap

I think in most schools it is. The kids get an IEP, a label and everything! Whoo hoo!

Anonymous Salt March 11, 2014 8:15 AM  

I'd like to just add that there is a slab of statistical evidence that just being outdoors improves eyesight - and, you guessed it - there is no causal explanation as to why!

This is an observation. I'm sixty, had 20/20 vision, and I've always worn sunglasses. Need reading glasses now, but my distance vision has been diminishing. I stopped using sunglasses. It's now improving.

Anonymous Cranberry March 11, 2014 8:19 AM  

Stingray, you're correct. The more kids with IEPs in your district, the more money your district receives from the fedgov. And the more staff you can support; too many kids with IEPs in one classroom means you get a co-teacher, at least that's what it meant in the three districts in which I was employed over my teaching career.

I've questioned whether ADHD exists or should exist as a clinical diagnosis. My experience working with kids is that they are either over-stimulated or bored, or both.

We have a lot of relatives who mean well and are always buying our kids toys, especially the light-up noisy kind. My kids had hundreds of toys laying about the house, so many that their favorite way to play with them was to pull them out, make them light up and be noisy, and then they'd run away and leave the mess behind. I threw out about 2/3 of their toys and stuffed animals. Once I streamlined their collection, they are able to play much better with them. Less stimulation and less choice means better concentration for them. I wonder how much this lesson could be taken into classrooms.

In 21st century classrooms teaching 21st Century Skills, students have endless resources available to them, possibly too many for them to sort out and comprehend their usefulness and application. And, as elementary education moves beyond "rote" learning (it's not always a bad thing, especially when one is young and has a brain wired to memorize facts, grammar rules, etc.) kids lack a sense of the foundations and structure of history, culture, and mathematics to bring their target into focus. IEPs don't really help remediate this matter for many of the students that have them*, just give kids a crutch to lean on as they limp along to graduation.

*I add that caveat because there exist some children with profound learning disabilities or mental retardation that truly do need alternative educational approaches. It is my contention that by and large they do not belong in a mainstream classroom for many or most subjects.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 8:27 AM  

Cranberry, exactly. I do work for myself, but that doesn't really help, because I can't lean on anyone else to set priorities. But it really comes down to self-discipline, at least for me. If I make it a priority to organize my tasks -- which I know how to do; GTD is an excellent system for that -- then I don't have to juggle 200 different ideas around in my head, because they're under control and ready when I need them. But that means I have to be disciplined enough to use the system; if I don't, then my mind has to try to keep them all fresh so I don't forget anything. That's basically impossible if you have much going on, but it's where you get the "churning" effect that people diagnosed with adult ADD talk about, where your mind just churns randomly all day through everything you need to remember and makes it hard to focus on one thing being most important.

Thing is, having a mind that can juggle a lot of different things is probably an advantage, if you're disciplined and organized enough that it can narrow down to a few things instead of hundreds. One scary thing about the ADD meds was that instead of feeling like hundreds of things were equally important, they all seemed equally UNimportant -- the emotional numbing I mentioned. With the churning slowed down I felt better, but I wasn't any more disciplined or any closer to prioritizing things correctly.

I also don't know if that mental churning has any relationship to the kid who's physically hyper in the classroom. Incidentally, I had (and have) two parents, still together, and a pretty good diet as a kid, so I can't blame those things. Not much discipline, though, especially on the mental side where school was way too easy. I'm convinced that the most important skill you can instill in a kid is self-discipline, but people don't talk about that much compared to skills like math or sports.

Anonymous Smokey March 11, 2014 8:28 AM  

I'd like to just add that there is a slab of statistical evidence that just being outdoors improves eyesight - and, you guessed it - there is no causal explanation as to why!

Yeah, I've experienced this too. Normally, my eyesight is low-to-average when indoors, but outside, it dramatically improves. I suspect that prolonged absence of sunlight, or its replacement with artificial light, can damage the eye somehow, or halt the eye's ability to repair damage to it.

Keep a person in pure pitch darkness for long enough, and I suspect they may even go blind.

As for ADHD, I'm surprised it took this long for someone in the medical profession to call it out as a bullshit diagnosis. Lack of concentration, hyper-activity? That probably describes about 90% of human children.

Anonymous AdognamedOp March 11, 2014 8:30 AM  

Big pharma makes the Mexi drug cartels look like petty ass, street dealers. Just look at the body count.
They dont have to wear masks and muscle the local gov't cause they ARE the local gov't, the local public education system,..the media, etc. They are of the hive. There is no diagnosis or socialogical explaination. They want your children.

Anonymous MendoScot March 11, 2014 8:44 AM  

You know, over 40 years of working with addicts it's amazing the number who describe starting out on prescribed psychotropics. Iatrogenic conditions, indeed.

Blogger Unknown March 11, 2014 8:49 AM  

After just watching a clip on Facebook of Justin Bieber in some sort of court hearing, I'd pay good money to see Vox choke slam him and rip his raisens off! That little boy needs a sound thumping.

Anonymous Steveo March 11, 2014 8:51 AM  

THX-(SSN)

Anonymous Cranberry March 11, 2014 8:52 AM  

Cail, see my comment re: the many toys my kids have. Once I got rid of most of them, their tendency to be distracted lessened and they focus on more sustained play now.

School was way too easy for me, too, and as I got older and people expected me to juggle 100 things at once, it became difficult to focus. My parents are still together too, I had a good upbringing mostly, but my parents were light on discipline too, and never gave advice, even when they saw me floundering they'd tell me I had to figure it out for myself. That is not always the best thing for some people.

Setting boundaries, limiting toys, tools, and tasks, and stepping in to help right a ship are critical in developing focus and self-discipline. It can develop organically, but I think that is the rare case.

It occurs to me, too, that perhaps we're expecting children to perform above their level too often and for too long. I do craft and reading activities with our kids, but I would hesitate to call it "school" even though that's how we playfully refer to it. Our eldest is five and cuts paper fine, colors well if not in the lines, knows shapes and letters and numbers and is learning to print. I'm not pushing her too hard because she'll get it, eventually. It's far easier for her to spend ten minutes a day at 5 years old learning to print than it was to spend three or four hours a day when she was 3 struggling to replicate printed letters.

I've seen instruction that is inappropriate for a kids age, because teachers and schools are under pressure to get kids up to speed and competitive with private schools and elite preschools. College educated parents are hyperactive about getting their 3 yo to read and develop at a level completely beyond his ken. Kid not walking at 9 months? What's wrong with him? Kid not reading and writing in kindergarten? What's wrong with him?

Age segregation does not help; some 5 yos are advanced enough for first grade and some 17 yo adolescents can barely read at second grade level. Yet social interaction trumps educational needs, so we group kids with age mates rather than their intellectual peers. The Montessori and Waldorf methods attempt to circumvent this by putting three years worth of age-ranges together, so older kids are mentors, middle kids are learning to be mentors and have a feeling of accomplishment to the youngest kids who are learning from peers with teacher as guide.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 11, 2014 8:58 AM  

"In my book, I identify more than 20 causes of the symptoms that are called ADHD.... Many ADHD patients have other conditions, such as depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia."

Schizophrenia?! If anyone thinks Aderall (etc.) are bad, try an anti-psychotic on for size. A chemical lobotomy in a pill bottle is what they are, and children are being prescribed them in droves.

The "Modern Era" is stuffed full of dangers of the man-made variety, replacing most of the natural ones now conquered. Ignorant people can find uncountable ways to destroy their lives now, usually with someone on the other side counting their cash.

Apparently, if nature's carrot-stick approach is deemed passe, humans will simply generate an entirely new set of ways to punish stupidity and ignorance.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 11, 2014 9:04 AM  

From feeding the wrong foods (leading to lifelong weakness and susceptibility to disease) to the wrong activities (sitting in front of a screen or book instead of getting out to play, dodge snowballs, track game along the river, catch crayfish, etc.), to blindly following profit-seeking "experts" like physicians with regard to their sons and daughters, parental malpractice is now the norm.

There's nothing to be done about the collective; the collective is always the herd, and the herd is always bovine in nature.

Wise people think their way through to better paths, including during their parental phase. I raised 3 happy, healthy, productive sons.

It wasn't rocket science.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 11, 2014 9:42 AM  

"I raised 3 happy, healthy, productive sons."

Yes, but c'mon and admit it, you had Uncle Charlie there to help.

Anonymous Josh March 11, 2014 9:57 AM  

The vast majority of ADD/ADHD is nothing more than normal boys being bored to death by idiot female teachers.

In my one semester of kindergarten, my parents were repeatedly warned that I could develop ADD because I was "disruptive" in class. My horrible disruptive behavior was finishing classwork too quickly and asking the teacher why the school library only had one pirate book.

Anonymous Red Comet March 11, 2014 9:57 AM  

I never believed in ADHD either, mostly because it made no sense that we had successful schooling and a functional society long before this disease that was to supposedly nuke education was even "discovered."

Really it was always just a pact between drug slinging quacks and lazy teachers who didn't know how to control boys in their classroom.

And a final anecdote: when I was in college the ADHD people still had their zombie pills and often sold them to people who needed to stay up all night for an exam/paper/project/etc.

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 10:11 AM  

There is a little boy at church... He's 8... got diagnosed with ADHD when he was like 3... has been drugged up ever since. The thing about those drugs... the kids take them in the morning... and they wear off right around... when? Right. Just after school is out. I help out at an after school program every so often just to make sure there is some kind of male presence there. The women always comment how much better the kids, especially the boys, mind when I am there.

The funny thing about the ADHD boy... he is always psycho hyper. The drugs have worn off. Now some would think this confirms his need for them. In fact its the exact opposite. The kid has been in a drugged up fog all day and things are finally clear. He's excited.

Hyper and happy is not hard to deal with. I take him outside and throw a football with him... making him run routes. He sprints until he's worn out... and oh look... he's just a normal kid again. Shocking. In terms of discipline.. like Vox... I find that after you physically confront the kid... he straightens right up.

When our kids went to a weekend retreat I went along and he was there. The friday afternoon he was his usual hyper self. But by sunday morning he had been off the drugs for almost 48 hours and he was no different than any other kid.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 10:13 AM  

I had a referral for a young person - who was receiving counseling and on a low dosage of a psychostimulant. At the entrance interview with the mother, I asked about what had led to his diagnosis and treatment. She stated that ADHD was, in her doctor's words, "a diagnosis for children who get bored easily."

So, her son was bored easily, probably on a crappy diet, so they decided to pump him full of drugs to relieve the boredom. It wasn't working. This particular story has a happy development - due to the lack of progress she decided to homeschool her son (there were reports of him being bullied as well). He seems to be doing much better at home, but mom still cannot bring herself to take him off his meds.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 11, 2014 10:22 AM  

Translating the French study mentioned in the article: 84% of all cases of ADHD were dealt with once they stopped eating sugar and getting hyperactive.

With mothers away from their kids, what do you think children are going to eat? Healthy snacks or junk food?

Anonymous viking March 11, 2014 10:25 AM  

And once again it is amazing how effective a balanced, natural diet can be at 'curing' our modern diseases.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 10:25 AM  

I agree! Do you agree or disagree with THIS take on kids' behavior?
http://johnwilsonbach.com/2014/03/10/adults-these-days/

Blogger buzzardist March 11, 2014 10:30 AM  

So, in other words, ADHD is a phony diagnosis covering for what is really the problem: mothers have partially or totally abandoned their responsibilities in the home and for their children in favor of work careers. Instead of consuming fresh, unprocessed food, kids are consuming way too much sugar and other refined foods, which leaves them iron deficient, which produces most of the symptoms we associate with ADHD.

Is it mere coincidence that the rise of ADHD diagnoses corresponds with the rise in mothers opting for careers outside the home? These mothers are not doing what they should for their kids, and they know it. Selfishly, they delude themselves into believing that the root problem is a disorder that doesn't actually exist, and then they turn their kids into drug addicts as they treat the symptoms instead of the disease.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 10:37 AM  

In my one semester of kindergarten, my parents were repeatedly warned that I could develop ADD because I was "disruptive" in class. My horrible disruptive behavior was finishing classwork too quickly and asking the teacher why the school library only had one pirate book.

Yep. I might have been disruptive too, but I was shy and introverted and knew all the answers, so my teachers left me alone to read through the school library while they taught the other kids. That was okay until I ran into a teacher that insisted I do the work with everyone else, but even then I went with passive resistance instead of class disruption. (She was the first teacher I had who hated me, and the feeling was mutual.) That's just me, though; another kid in the same situation might have acted up openly.

I never believed in ADHD either, mostly because it made no sense that we had successful schooling and a functional society long before this disease that was to supposedly nuke education was even "discovered."

True. When I was in school, it seemed like every class of 30 kids would have about one kid who was a real problem, who got paddled regularly or sent to the principal a lot. So maybe 3% of kids, while now we're drugging a much larger percentage, especially of the boys.

On the other hand, we now have many more kids without fathers, more day care, worse diets, less discipline, and more stimulating entertainment and technology thrown at them. So if there are environmental causes, I could believe it's more common now. But that also means it can be cured by rolling back those environmental changes, rather than drugging the kids.

Blogger jmarinara March 11, 2014 10:38 AM  

"One boy with a supposed case of it was magically cured and never had any trouble controlling his behavior around me after I picked him up by the throat and told him that if he ever kicked me again, I'd rip his balls off and feed them to him."

I have nothing really to say here. I just wanted to highlight that and read it again because it was hilarious.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 10:44 AM  

And once again it is amazing how effective a balanced, natural diet can be at 'curing' our modern diseases.

Yep. I was fed a pretty good diet as a kid, especially by modern standards: pretty much a 1950s "4 food groups" diet with plenty of home grown garden products. I didn't get really "scatterbrained" until I moved out and spent some years making up for lost time on junk food and soda. Now a no-gluten diet low in processed foods and industrial seed oils helps a lot.

Blogger Crowhill March 11, 2014 11:14 AM  

It is quite sad that a set of symptoms has been taken as an excuse to give kids drugs. And fairly serious drugs at that.

While I often tend to think of ADHD as an excuse that people could get over if they tried hard enough, it's nice to hear that some doctors are actually finding causes (e.g., lack of iron, poor eyesight, etc.) rather than blindly prescribing medication.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 11, 2014 11:39 AM  

Feminism caused ADHD. Pass it on.

Anonymous TLM March 11, 2014 11:43 AM  

This whole ADHD nonsense went into high gear after that spoiled little punk from Dayton, OH was about to get his ass caned in Singapore for vandalism. The western press was a twitter about this poor wittle boy with ADHD wasn't responsible for screwing up someone else's property. Those orientals weren't buying it then and they spanked his little ass.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 11:52 AM  

Just read an article about how phone addictions damage bonds with your children. So now we have kids being fed crap and then ignored by mom and dad because they must answer their facebook likes after the latest selfie they took with their kids.

Anonymous Starbuck March 11, 2014 11:53 AM  

One boy with a supposed case of it was magically cured and never had any trouble controlling his behavior around me after I picked him up by the throat and told him that if he ever kicked me again, I'd rip his balls off and feed them to him. - VD

I agree with your assesment of ADHD. I didn't allow the schools to put my son on them. And yes they wanted to. They gave me a lot of pressure to do so. I refused. Funny thing is - he wasn't disruptive in class nor was he hyper. I found out all his friends were taking ritalin. Funny, he is well adjusted all round.

But this statement by VD disrurbed me. First off, my son would have never kicked him, at least not on purpose. Even if it was on purpose this was not wise to talk to a child like that. If it was my child, there would be consequenses for those actions. If I witnessed it, I'd have dropped the man doing that to my son right then and there. You do not attack my child with out me killing you.
If I had found out later, then depending on the mood, because I could never take the risk that my child might kick you again. I would either put a bullet in the back of your head or if I was really angry. Tie you down (yes I would need friends... don't care) and proceed to do to you what you threatened my son with. If you didn't choke on them, I would end it with a bang.

But evidently it wasn't my son because you are still breathing.
Anyone threatens my family in any such manner, no matter how in the wrong my family was, my family member will be defended to the fullest extent of my abilities. And if my abilities ain't enough. I will get help.
This is not a threat, this is a result of such foolishness of treating my son or anyone in my family like this. I do not care about your feelings or your family. I care about mine. I also expect my family to behave. But they mess up just like anyone else... But that gives you no right to bring physical harm or threaten my son or family. I will never ever back down from this. Only God is more important then my family.

Anonymous Josh March 11, 2014 12:01 PM  

Starbuck, I promise that I will never castrate your children.

Anonymous Baseball Savant March 11, 2014 12:02 PM  

I know a lot of bodybuilders at my gym that love them some Adderall.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope March 11, 2014 12:08 PM  

it's absolutely amazing to me how zero boys and girls have ADHD at week long overnight summer camp.
No drugs.
Activities all day.
Songs. Stories.
3 excellent healthy meals.
a counselor (parent figure) with them at all times in a ratio of about 9 to 1.
Bed time by 9:00 PM.
wake up around 6:30 AM.
Absolutely zero TV, radio, iPod, cell phones.

Best week of their lives, year after year.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope March 11, 2014 12:12 PM  

starbuck, if you go through the archives, you'll find the whole story from at least 5 years ago.
Chill dude.
If my son EVER behaved like this child was behaving, I'd buy Vox a 6 pack for being the man on the spot. Not that it would be necessary since I'd do it myself if I ever got wind of my son acting like that....

Blogger John Williams March 11, 2014 12:19 PM  

But evidently it wasn't my son because you are still breathing.
Oh God, there's so many if's there, and such a well thought out plan I can only guess where you'd be on the heirarchy...

As for concerned fathers, I'd guess that the kid running around kicking people didn't have one.

This is only funny cause it's true.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 11, 2014 12:24 PM  

JCclimber -- yeah, I remember being a Boy Scout back when that was still respectable, healthy stuff for a kid, and the funny thing about camping out in that org was that it was a lot of fun, but mostly it involved huge amounts of work. Lots of building things and carrying things, and doing necessary stuff just to survive and not freeze to death. We were a bunch of 13-year-olds out up in the mountain woods in sub-zero weather, and nobody thought that was problematic I used to come home from a few days camping, and my snot would be black for about a week because of all the campfire smoke. I miss America. Too bad leftists killed it. RIP.

Anonymous Starbuck March 11, 2014 12:39 PM  

starbuck, if you go through the archives, you'll find the whole story from at least 5 years ago.
Chill dude.
If my son EVER behaved like this child was behaving, I'd buy Vox a 6 pack for being the man on the spot. Not that it would be necessary since I'd do it myself if I ever got wind of my son acting like that.... - Josh


I would certianly agree. And I did say that I don't think my son would act like that. And I would certianly get after my son if he did act like that. Discipline is one thing, but threatening life or limb crosses a line I would not tolerate, ever.
If other people want to tolerate that... That's fine, I won't mind. But I won't.
Just the way it is...

Blogger Doom March 11, 2014 12:42 PM  

I am strongly beginning to believe there is no such thing as diabetes, either. Much as with the notion of dark energy, when scientists/researchers/doctors don't know, they sweep what doesn't make sense into something with a generic name then act as if that solves it. Lazy? Incapable? Incompetent? A bit of all of that. They just really don't know. I just wish they would be a little more honest.

Anonymous Starbuck March 11, 2014 12:42 PM  

As for concerned fathers, I'd guess that the kid running around kicking people didn't have one.

I wouldn't have tolerated my son acting like that either. My children knew what I would not tolerate. They were also pretty well behaved.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 12:53 PM  

I was diagnosed with 'hyperactivity' as a kid before they called it ADD. The prescription then was dexedrine. It'd take it in the morning and not eat the rest of the day. It would wear off precisely at 8 pm and I would bounce off the walls.

Literally, I would run down the longest hallway in our house, from the kitchen through the family room past the linen closet and restroom to the bedroom doors, leap into the air, and tag the wall ba-thump. Then run back to the kitchen, reach the kitchen wall, leap into the air, tag ba-thump.

My mom got worried and tried taking one of the dexedrine pills. She stayed up the entire night cleaning the house, including the basement, and got all the way through and half again repeating before she could stop. And no more dexedrine for me.

My mom was an excellent cook and my dad was into vitamins so I didn't have any deficiencies. But then a popular book came out called the 'Feingold Diet' that proposed that this hyperactivity was caused by a sensitivity to additives and preservatives like BHA and BHT, and salicylates like those found in orange juice. We tried it and it seemed to help.

Nowadays medical opinion is mixed on exactly how the Feingold Diet works. It might just be that any parent who starts paying enough attention to feeding their kid right to get him on a diet with no additives, preservatives, or salicylates will naturally end up fixing most any normal dietary problem that's giving them hassles.

But sit in a room with my dad when the topic comes up and he'll tell the story of when we were on a skiing trip in Colorado. I'd been properly on the diet for many months and all was well. We were driving home and there simply was nothing at a rest stop to drink with any nutritional value but a little bottle of orange juice. So he gave it to me.

Inside of five minutes, everything was back.

So our family are big Feingold Diet boosters.

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 12:54 PM  

"But this statement by VD disrurbed me. First off, my son would have never kicked him, at least not on purpose. Even if it was on purpose this was not wise to talk to a child like that. If it was my child, there would be consequenses for those actions. If I witnessed it, I'd have dropped the man doing that to my son right then and there. You do not attack my child with out me killing you."

The child in question was an out-of-control little shit. His parents believed that literally no one could control him.

The only reason you have the reaction you do, is because you're not the kind of person who would raise a child like this was raised.

Thus it isnt' something you ever have to worry about.

You think of this as child... when in actuality it was little more than a small barbarian that happened to speak english.

Anonymous Michael Maier March 11, 2014 12:57 PM  

@ JCClimber: I'm right there with you.

Had I a son that did as the punk in Vox' story did, and he told me Vox threatened him for what he did, he'd get a far worse punishment from me. Such that he'd never even think of initiating violence against someone again (bigger or smaller).

I would have zero intention of raising a punk bully kid. I'd have them trained in fighting but if I ever saw them being aggressive, I'd shut that crap down quick.

I have major issues with the idiocy of "ADHD". My nephew's been drugged up for almost a decade now. Funny how his behavior is fine when it's just the two of us hanging out.

And my younger brother's sons are on the same track. Nothing but shit carbs to eat, no veggies, almost no meat, no healthy fats. It's a recipe for disaster. They're only 2 & 3 and they're already whiny hyper kids.

Blogger David W. Rankin Jr. March 11, 2014 1:02 PM  

I have seen one child who was truly ADHD. Poor fellow came by the house because his doctors were switching his meds, and he had to wean off one to switch to the second. He looked at Milady, and said "I wish my brain would slow down; it is going way too fast." That said, he was a drug baby who truly responded to ADHD meds, not just entered a drug fugue, and even he responds really well to getting exercise and a better diet.

As you said, most kids are either getting drugged because they're not getting raised, or their mother needs to "borrow" the little helpers.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 11, 2014 1:02 PM  

it's absolutely amazing to me how zero boys and girls have ADHD at week long overnight summer camp.

Same observation here. Having fun outdoors does amazing things for kids emotional health. We had a kid join our Scout troop at 11. He was on anti-anxiety meds and was painfully shy, could barely even talk to his peers. But he loved camping and went on every trip we had, including a couple of week long backpacking trips. Eighteen months later, he was not only off the drugs, he stood up in front of a group of 50 adults and taught first aid. Not in a "oh how cute, little Johnny is doing his presentation" way but for real teaching people who paid to learn advanced first aid skills, which this kid had soaked up like a sponge.

Outdoors and active, it's a great combination.

Anonymous VD March 11, 2014 1:05 PM  

This is not a threat, this is a result of such foolishness of treating my son or anyone in my family like this. I do not care about your feelings or your family. I care about mine. I also expect my family to behave. But they mess up just like anyone else... But that gives you no right to bring physical harm or threaten my son or family. I will never ever back down from this. Only God is more important then my family.

You're a total fucking idiot, Starbuck. And you deserve the beating you will receive if you're dumb enough to blindly defend your kids like that. First, you're talking nothing but bullshit because unless you're willing to shoot someone in the head and going to jail for murder, you'd end up in the hospital if you attacked a martial artist because your precious little snowflake attacked someone.

Getting mad because your idiot little spawn got what he deserved doesn't make you stronger, tougher, or make up for years of combat training. I have put down career Marines weighing up to 235 pounds in seconds, but you're going to beat me up because your wittle boy got picked up by his throat? Right.

Furthermore, and I repeat, YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT. I went down and told the kid it was time for dinner. For some reason, this made him mad and he kicked me in the balls without warning.

And you're posturing and saying you are going to kill someone for reacting to that behavior in a perfectly controlled manner. I repeat: YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT. Your stupid and obviously genetically crippled children do not have the right to attack others. Other people have the right to defend themselves against your precious little babies without their oaf of a father blustering about how he's going to kill everyone.

Idiot.

Blogger David W. Rankin Jr. March 11, 2014 1:11 PM  

You think of this as child... when in actuality it was little more than a small barbarian that happened to speak english.

Future Psychopaths of America.

Number One Son started homeschooling because of one of them in the first grade. He had an IEP an inch thick, and a father who would come to school and sit with his kid if they called. (Not yell, not spank, not even say "bad child". He would sit.) I had a principal tell me that she had explained to this one first grader that he was being punished for his bad behavior. If you have to explain to a first grader that you're punishing them, you're not. The teacher finally suggested that I teach Number One Son to beat the kid up. (Milady wouldn't let me teach my son to kick for the field goal.... I figured it would fix the problem and remove him from the gene pool; two for one special.)

I told our families that I had never seen a bunch of adults completely incapable of doing anything with a kid, and that there was no way we could do that bad ourselves, and out we came. We certainly did better too.

You take kids still in the cradle, and teach them that behaving like a sociopath gets you personalized attention, but otherwise you're on your own. People are surprised when out come kids with some form of narcissistic personality disorder or psychopathy/sociopathy. Imagine that!

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 1:23 PM  

One of our society's many problems is that adults as a group have abdicated the responsibility for disciplining children, while at the same time parents like Starbuck here have become overprotective of their little snowflakes and think no one else should so much as raise a voice to them. Fifty years ago, people understood that parents can't be on top of their kids at all times (especially when they had more than 2.1 children), so any adult who saw a kid doing something wrong in public would put a stop to it; but now people look the other way because they're afraid of being accused of something -- most likely by the parents.

Also, picking a boy up by the throat isn't an "attack"; it's a demonstration of dominance that gets the boy's attention and demands his respect. That kind of thing is part of growing up and finding the boundaries of how you deal peacefully with other men. It probably did the kid a world of good.

Anonymous VD March 11, 2014 1:27 PM  

It probably did the kid a world of good.

It doesn't appear to have hurt him any. He actually turned out pretty well.

Anonymous VD March 11, 2014 1:40 PM  

Discipline is one thing, but threatening life or limb crosses a line I would not tolerate, ever.
If other people want to tolerate that... That's fine, I won't mind. But I won't.


Yes, you most certainly will. You're a cowardly father who is raising special little snowflakes. Fighting your sons' battles for them isn't the mark of a good father. It's the mark of a white knight. And anyone who foolishly blusters like you clearly has zero fighting experience.

I very much doubt you would say boo to any man who threatened your kid for good reason in front of you. It's easy to talk tough on the Internet. It's considerably different when you're meeting the eyes of someone who is perfectly prepared to take you apart. Sure, you'll be mad. And you'll still back down. I've seen it before.

Blogger Dreadpiratk March 11, 2014 1:50 PM  

Our fourth child was definitely ADHD, or would have been diagnosed by the school had we sent her. When she was around 12 months she started acting out, going from calm and pleasant, if active, to off the wall out of control. Angry, defiant, oppositional and demanding and very hyper. As our 4th we thought we had the parenting thing figured out, but this one threw us for a loop. My wife one night tearfully admitted that she didn't think she wanted this one, she's just too hard, and my wife is a born mommy,

So one night we were out at dinner and my older son gave his little sister the cherry from his drink, and she instantly morphed into her evil twin. We finally realized it was the Red 40 in the cherry that caused her to act out. We did the research and eliminated all artificial colors from her diet and she completely changed her demeanor. She's still high energy, but she's visibly in control of herself and can sit and work on projects for hours with great concentration when she wants too. Still stubborn as a mule, but it doesn't have that frenetic, out of control feel to it. Now she's 9 and is the very picture of a strong willed child, but she is very self possessed and in control of herself. Does great at her school work and loves to sew and knit and other activities that require concentration. I tell her that stubbornness is her super power, and with great power...

Her cousin who is the same age has the same issue, acts exactly like our daughter did on colors, but her mother won't control her diet so she has all kinds of trouble in school, and they want to put her on ADHD meds.

I can't say that all hyper active kids suffer from a color intolerance, but I bet a good number of them could be off drugs with a simple change in their diet.

Blogger Res Ipsa March 11, 2014 1:55 PM  

Nate has it 100% correct. Boys need to do boy stuff. Boys need to run, play and get the energy out. Boys are not girls. The Feminazi (my apologies to real Nazi's you did America less harm) education system wants boys to act like girls and will do anything including drug them out of their little minds to get them that way.

If all it takes is an hour or so of playing ball, or riding bikes etc with your son to get him to do well with his studies, why not just do it?

Blogger Res Ipsa March 11, 2014 2:00 PM  

Dreadpiratk

My wife would agree with you that many childhood behavior issues have a food/nutrition link. We control how much and how often on lots of foods that are considered "normal". The kids do much better without all the artificial additives in their diet.

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 2:10 PM  

"Idiot."

I'm a little slow today...

Vox... are you saying Starbuck is an idiot? Because I'm not sure you were clear or blunt enough in that assessment.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 2:20 PM  

A few years ago I was asked to intervene with a couple of teens who did a very stupid thing. They logged onto a friend's facebook account, and proceeded to send message after message to another teen telling him he was a fag, and stupid...etc.

The receiving boy's mom called me and asked me to help (she was a single mom and had no idea what to do). I agreed and met with all three boys (the two perpetrators were brothers). I called their father to let him know what his sons had done. His exact words, "Tear those idiots a new asshole."

Him and I have been friends ever since.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 2:25 PM  

Starbuck, you would have a fighting chance, as long as you followed these rules.

Drop down to the ground and crawl over to him as fast as you can. Don't stand up. Just do a little army crawl over there. Use the "skittering monkey style" popularized in the movie bloodsport (just ignore what happened to him). Just bear crawl over to him, stay low so he cannot hit you, and tackle him down. This strategy cannot fail.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey March 11, 2014 2:57 PM  

I'm currently discipling a guy who was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. They put him on Adderall, which led to a nasty meth habit. Not long after, he lost his job, his wife, and his kids. After the crash and burn, he sought God. His brain is a little fried, but he's clean, employed, and is very close to reconciling with his wife and kids. A couple of months ago, I told him to read Colossians. I was out of town for a few weeks, and we couldn't meet regularly like we planed, and the guy read the book every day for almost a month. He almost has it memorized. ADHD my ass. Given the right diet, environment, and focus, anyone can focus.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 3:02 PM  

Another problem with Starbuck's position is his "my son would never" nonsense. The kindest, most well-behaved boy, at some point, is going to do something pretty bad, just because he can, or because he's hanging around with other boys who egg him on. It might be completely out of character, and he might feel terrible a split second later, but it'll happen. He's a freakin' boy. If you've never once seen him do something mean or spiteful, that just means he's a sneaky little bastard and you should be glad if someone else catches him in the act for you.

Anonymous sawtooth March 11, 2014 3:29 PM  

The way public schools are set up and run creates an unnatural for children, especially little boys.

It is completely natural and healthy for kids to have a surplus of energy....and imagination.

Being forced to sit quietly at a desk for hours every day, mind tethered and expected absorb the factoids, data, and all the rest of the dry-as-dust information is child abuse. No wonder these kids are chemically altered to behave in the proscribed way.

It's the governments way of producing complacent, passionless, thoughtless worker/drones.

Just say no to the public schools soul crushing drugs....and then say no to the public schools.

Anonymous JamesV March 11, 2014 3:41 PM  

One boy with a supposed case of it was magically cured and never had any trouble controlling his behavior around me after I picked him up by the throat and told him that if he ever kicked me again, I'd rip his balls off and feed them to him.

You, sir, are the kind of father I want active in my kids social circles. I've seen too many cases of parents defending their precious child's obviously obscene and offensive behavior.

I was in the audience where the presenter spoke proudly of taking another father to task when the other father dared to discipline his child. The discipline wasn't even harsh, a grip on the upper arm to temporarily immobilize the kid and get his attention, and an admonishment not to do something again. He was so smug about how he defended his child too. He just gave his kid license to be an ass and get away with it.

We are living in a generation of very bad parenting.

Anonymous Supernaut March 11, 2014 3:41 PM  

VD - I may be mistaken...but I thought Starbuck was actually a woman - and based on the tough talk, sounds like a single/divorced mother to boot.

That's the kind of bluster our modern day empowered "you go grlllzzzz" culture promotes. Tough talking bitches who think their powerful emotional feelings would give them invulnerability when defending their 'cubs.'

In short, if IIRC that Starbuck is a chic, she totally exemplifies why so many kids are growing up to be little shits today.

When I was kid, my Father would tell all the other parents in my neighborhood "If you see my boys getting out of line, give a good spanking!"

Nowadays, all these parents, especially the single moms of bastards, will defend their child no matter what.

Now, if I'm wrong, and Starbuck is a "man" (TOUGH GUY!), then I'd also bet dollars to doughnuts he was raised by a single mother himself, to have such a reaction like this to your anecdote.

Either way, Starbuck's comment here sounds like it comes from a bitch, raising the next generation of entitled, narcissistic douchebags.

Anonymous Josh March 11, 2014 3:43 PM  

Starbuck is not a chick

Anonymous Leonidas March 11, 2014 3:52 PM  

@Starbuck: Any parent who doesn't have the balls to confront his own child over behavior that bad clearly doesn't have the balls to confront a grown adult male in good shape, even if he's unaware of the martial arts training. It's a corrollary of the Game principal that any man who can't stand up to his girlfriend/wife can't stand up for his girlfriend or wife.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan March 11, 2014 3:54 PM  

Now that the dust has settled, here's my thoughts on the drugging of the Millennials by the X'ers.

We've seen how hateful the X'ers can be toward their parents' generation for their failures. Sure, we left em home alone, aborted several million of em, and told em they were great when they were just below mediocre. We divorced, fooled around, drank, took drugs, and generally acted like assholes.

And our kids, the X'ers, cannot wait for us to die, so they can piss on our graves, squander our money on pull tabs and neck tattoos.

Fine.

Now, multiply that hatred by about ten. That is what I'm afraid is coming down the pike for the X'ers when they get to about age 60. Their kids will be/have ...

a) obese
b) diabetic
c) unable to concentrate
d) poor eyesight from all the screen time
e) crooked posture, stiff necks
f) skinny arms
g) bad teeth, weak jaws
h) unable to do simple arithmetic
i) entitlement mentality to the moon
j) barely literate
k) burned out brain from all the drugs
l) full of hatred
m) distorted view of life due to years of grand theft auto 1, 2, 3, and 4
n) unable to attract a mate
o) sick of looking in the mirror at their facial hardware
p) unable to hold a job
q) unable to have a conversation with an adult
r) unable to comprehend a budget
s) unable to dress themselves
t) unable to feed themselves
u) unable to sit still
v) unable to listen for more than 1 second
w) unable to comprehend that people lived before their birth date
x) unwilling to make any effort toward helping themselves
y) vitamin D deficient
z) sickly, dying, atheistic, and with no will to live.

Well I'm out of letters.

I wonder how many X'ers will be murdered in their sleep by their children. The kids won't dance/piss on your graves, though. You aren't going to have graves. Just ashes, thrown in the dump.

Nice job, there X'ers. Now get back to hating your parents - you've already destroyed your children.

Anonymous Leonidas March 11, 2014 3:56 PM  

Yep. I might have been disruptive too, but I was shy and introverted and knew all the answers, so my teachers left me alone to read through the school library while they taught the other kids.

This was me. If I'd gone through public school now instead of the 1980s, I have precisely zero doubt that I'd be labeled ADHD. I have even less doubt that my four year old son would be labeled ADHD, because we've raised him on a paleo diet instead of the crap I was raised on. So while he's definitely better behaved for it (the kid eats almost no sugar... and boy can you tell on the days when he actually does eat some), he's also got about four times the energy I had when I was a kid because it's not sapped down by processed crap in his diet. And that's absolutely one of the driving factors in why the public schools will never, ever get their claws on him.

Anonymous Supernaut March 11, 2014 4:00 PM  

the kid eats almost no sugar... and boy can you tell on the days when he actually does eat some...

My kid gets noticed everywhere we go for his calm demeanor and ability to sit still and concentrate and focus, while all the other kids are bouncing off the walls and their parents are trying to get them to settle down.

Diet is 90% of the factor behind ADHD.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 4:12 PM  

I wonder how many X'ers will be murdered in their sleep by their children. The kids won't dance/piss on your graves, though. You aren't going to have graves. Just ashes, thrown in the dump.

Taking your scenario to its logical conclusion - I shudder to think how the millennials will treat their grandparents. Of course in order to hate their grandparents they would have to actually know them...

Anonymous Supernaut March 11, 2014 4:13 PM  

I wonder how many X'ers will be murdered in their sleep by their children. The kids won't dance/piss on your graves, though. You aren't going to have graves. Just ashes, thrown in the dump.

Nice job, there X'ers. Now get back to hating your parents - you've already destroyed your children.


Meh. Many of us X'ers clearly understand just how badly you Boomers went awry and are actively and quite deliberately raising our kids exactly opposite of how the Boomers fucked up so much.

This is why you are seeing a rise in homeschooling, increased awareness of the paleo diet principles and avoiding processed foods, the reaction to political correctness and feminism, and so many other "neo-reactionary" discussions.

You're list of Millenials hating their parents will certainly apply to all the thug spawns and bitter, emasculated psychopaths raised by single mothers thanks to the welfare state-garbage generation promoted by Boomer politics.

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 4:21 PM  

'Another problem with Starbuck's position is his "my son would never" nonsense. The kindest, most well-behaved boy, at some point, is going to do something pretty bad, just because he can, or because he's hanging around with other boys who egg him on."

There is a giant difference between "something pretty bad" and kicking a grown man in the nuts.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope March 11, 2014 4:23 PM  

I am absolutely astounded at the atrocious diet eaten by 80% of my coworkers in this new company (a healthcare company, no less).

About 40% are on Jenny Craig or Weight Watcher high sodium extremely processed crap. About 50% are on fast food like KFC and Burger King (considered healthy around here). 10% are eating home food or leftovers from the restaurant the night before.

Did I mention that sick time is rampant here and the obesity levels are off the American charts? No? They are. And management (who are in the same % of unhealthy eating) wonders why employee performance is so low....

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 4:23 PM  

Cryan Ryan

As has been discussed exhaustively... you stupid fuck... most millenials are in fact the children of baby boomers... not Xers.

Those that are Xer's kids... are still suffering from the system that you stupid fucks built and currently run.

The problem... as always... is you.

So go fucking die already.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope March 11, 2014 4:27 PM  

Supernaut, methinks you have been unevenly swayed by your self-selected peer group and the fellow posters on this blog.

Most of us X-ers are absolutely horrid parents. Granted, they may be slightly more "involved" in shuttling their spawn from play date to play date, from soccer practice to swimming. But they suck as parents. Don't kid yourself.

Anonymous Supernaut March 11, 2014 4:32 PM  

Supernaut, methinks you have been unevenly swayed by your self-selected peer group and the fellow posters on this blog.

Perhaps I'm overstating it...but I'm meeting more and more people in real life (blue pill world!) where people are cognizant of the BS that is "conventional wisdom" of today's Boomertopia.

But you're right, there are still plenty of screwed up gen-X parents transmitting Boomer pathologies to the younger generations.

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 4:50 PM  

"Most of us X-ers are absolutely horrid parents."

How do you learn to be a parent if you were never parented yourself?

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 4:51 PM  

and hell... when are you supposed to "parent" the kids anyway? They get up 6 to be at school at 7 and don't get home until 5... and then they have 2 hours of homework to do... supper.. bath... boom... bed time.

Blogger Dreadpiratk March 11, 2014 5:11 PM  

"the kid eats almost no sugar... and boy can you tell on the days when he actually does eat some...

My kid gets noticed everywhere we go for his calm demeanor and ability to sit still and concentrate and focus, while all the other kids are bouncing off the walls and their parents are trying to get them to settle down.

Diet is 90% of the factor behind ADHD."



Agreed, but it isn't just sugar. I've heard a number of parents say they tried to cut out sugar and it didn't help. That's cause it's only one factor among many. My daughter can eat chocolate in moderation or even ice cream and she's ok. Put food dye in the ice cream and she's bouncing off the walls.

The thing is colors and other chemicals are in a lot of things they eat, not just candy or sugary stuff. Even tooth-paste has a lot of colors in it, so just cutting out the sugar won't always have the desired effect.

Anonymous Supernaut March 11, 2014 5:22 PM  

Agreed, but it isn't just sugar.

Oh yes. The biggest one is the entire demonization of saturated fats. Saturated fats like butter, full fat dairy, lard, bacon, coconut oils and omega3 rich fish oils....they are the best foods for developing nervous systems. They are also the building blocks for the bodies hormones and neurotransmitters. The replacement of natural saturated fats with all the polyunsaturated fats and partially hydrogenated fats from soy, corn and rapeseed (aka Canola) that are all rich on omega6 fats leads to depression, mood disorders, obesity, etc.

Crappy industrial fats combined with sweeteners and excito-toxins like MSG and food colorings and artificial flavors are all contributing factors to "ADD" in kids.

When you have a kid like mine, for whom I've carefully watched his diet since birth as much as possible, the occasional ingestion of these substances shows a complete change in personality and behavior within minutes.

I once let my kid eat a lollipop at a camp out, because a parent had brought lollipops for all the kids, and I relented for a moment and let him have one so he wouldn't feel left out.

In 5 minutes, he literally transformed into the Tasmanian devil, running in circles around the campsite, screaming and yelling toddler gibberish for about 10 minutes. Then he settled down, put his head down on the table and proceeded to take a 3 hour nap.

That was a year ago, and the last time I let him eat something like that.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope March 11, 2014 5:24 PM  

dread is on to something here. Although we are vegetarians at our house, I imagine those following the paleo diets will have excellent results as well.

Get rid of processed foods. As much as possible, use raw ingredients that you have to chop, clean, cut, shred, pound, wash, boil, steam, fry, bake etc yourself. Organic when possible, whole grain when eating grains.

When buying store made foods, ensure they don't have chemical additivies, preservatives, food dyes, "spices" (if the "spices" were really spices, they would name the spice), and sugar additives.

A good rule of thumb - If there is a manufacturer's coupon for it, it is 99% certain to be bad for your health.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan March 11, 2014 5:32 PM  

C'mon Nate, you can't be that stupid. Can you?

Good Lord. What a dumbass.

Blogger Dreadpiratk March 11, 2014 5:47 PM  

"In 5 minutes, he literally transformed into the Tasmanian devil, running in circles around the campsite, screaming and yelling toddler gibberish for about 10 minutes. Then he settled down, put his head down on the table and proceeded to take a 3 hour nap".

My daughter is exactly the same way. When she was younger if she ate so much as a single red m&m we could tell immediately, just by the look on her face that the evil twin had resurfaced. The change was so profound it was a little scary.

Now that she's older and has more body mass small amounts don't effect her as much any more, but we can still tell if something has gotten through. She's very good about self-monitoring, but some things have colors in them that you just wouldn't think about, like white cake.

Blogger Unknown March 11, 2014 6:33 PM  

Remember when you slapped children when they kicked you in the balls?

You were right in using violence but grabbing the throat is just silly.

Anonymous Jonathan March 11, 2014 6:54 PM  

Yeah, my brother was diagnosed with "ADHD" in his teens. Ten years later ... schizophrenia. Just an anecdote, but still.

Anonymous VD March 11, 2014 7:42 PM  

You were right in using violence but grabbing the throat is just silly.

Silly, right. There are few things that makes a person feel more helpless than being held suspended only by his throat. Especially if he is an adult male.

That is why the scene in Star Wars was so effective in demonstrating Darth Vader's power.

Anonymous sawtooth March 11, 2014 7:49 PM  

Being kicked in the nuts does not exactly engender a cool, rational response. The ball kicking brat was probably lucky he didn't body slammed or punted over the roof.

Anonymous sawtooth March 11, 2014 7:54 PM  

That should read...

"...didn't *get* body slammed..."

Evidently it's time for my ADHD meds.

Blogger Akulkis March 11, 2014 8:50 PM  

20 google searches later, and I still can't find the original posting about the kid kicking Vox.

Search terms used in various permutations and combinations:
kid OR boy kicked dinner neck lifted OR picked-up site:voxday.blogspot.com

And other search terms I should use, or does anyone remember the title of that post... or can someone reply with a link to it?

Anonymous Your Possible Reader March 11, 2014 10:25 PM  

I've heard a lot about your site and that I'd probably enjoy it. Unfortunately, I found this right away.

Why do I say unfortunately? Because reading this piece, and the comments, show me just how misinformed people are about ADHD. Yes, I have it. As did my father (diagnosed as an adult, but even his very strict mother would tell you something was just different about him in childhood.) My daughter does too.

I wanted to focus. I wanted to be like the other kids. I honestly would forget my homework, not just "not want to do it". Or I'd do it and forget to bring it to class. Yes, completely forgot. I slurred in elementary school. After exhaustive testing, the only answer they found was that my brain was going so fast that my mouth couldn't up! This one of many similar stories that pepper my life.

I got plenty of outside time, one of my favorite activities as a kid was to play outside with my basketball. I ate a diet full of fruits and vegetables. I had strict parents and caretakers. My eyesight was poor starting in middle school and corrected quickly. I wasn't stupid either. Every single one of my teachers would complain to my parents that I'd ace the tests, but I couldn't do things like listen in class or turn in my assignments. I'd read or write instead. I was lucky to graduate high school, despite impressive ACT and SAT scores.

Despite knowing about my disease, I basically ignored it and struggled through. I tried organizational systems like GTD (in fact, I tried GTD several times.) When you lose your list every hour, it's rather hard to implement.

Finally, when my daughter was having the same symptoms, I started doing real research on ADHD. It's caused by the dopamine receptors in your brain. Current research shows that the typical person with ADHD has fewer receptors than the average person. We simply don't get as much dopamine as the typical person, which is what causes the symptoms.

Dietary changes help about 5% of people with ADHD. Behavior methods help a higher percentage, but for many people, especially those who have more severe ADHD, it can be nearly impossible to implement. The best treatment is medication, which helps between 80-90% of patients. Once medication is in place, behavior modification is a great tool.

Also, if your medication is at the right diagnosis and taken at proper times, most side effects aren't present. The most common side effect that doesn't go away is the lack of hunger during the day (when medication is strongest.) This can be made up for by eating a larger, protein-rich breakfast and dinner.

A few more things to add to your box: I'm female, so you can't blame typical "he's being a boy." I was a latch-key kid for only one year. Otherwise, I had a babysitter or at my grandparents house, even into high school. My sister, who doesn't have ADHD, spent a lot more time home alone than I did.

Also, I haven't worked outside of the home since my daughter was 1.5 and we eat a healthy diet. She gets at least an hour or two of outside time each day (more on the weekends) and has regular check up including vision, hearing, and blood tests. I resisted medication for her for a very long time, but it made a difference between night and day for her. It was the change in her that finally caused me to get treatment.

If you truly believe it's made up, you are welcome to believe it. You aren't the first, nor will you be the last. If you are interested in looking at the scientific evidence about ADHD, I'd suggest reading the work of Ned Hallowell and/or Russell A. Barkley. Daniel Amen has some interesting findings as well, but he covers a wider range of neurobiological issues.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 10:43 PM  

"...pretty much a 1950s "4 food groups" diet..."

@cailcorishev

You mean beans, bacon, whiskey, and lard right?

Barg Uist

Blogger Nate March 11, 2014 10:49 PM  

" Yes, I have it."

yes yes yes... you have it. of course YOU do. You're just so special.

Look... I'm sure you've convinced yourself you have it. I'm sure you convinced your daughter she has it too.

You're a fool.

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 11:04 PM  

Your Possible Reader:

Did you try following a Feingold diet, which eliminates oranges, orange juice, and many other fruits and vegetables with salicylates?

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 March 11, 2014 11:16 PM  

Your Possible Reader,

there's also an explosion of all psychiatric illnesses - by virtue of definitions alone. eg. Taxpayer anxiety disorder! By nothing more scientific than a show of hands anal intercourse between men was voted through as not being a psychiatric illness. That in itself defines medicine.

Perhaps counting synaptic connections between neurons shows a deficiency in some people with a constellation of behaviours. Neuro plasticity suggests you aren't without some responsibility in the matter. Think about that.

Genetics load a gun but doesn't pull a trigger. What your mother exposed you to in the womb began a process but it doesn't necessarily end there.

I don't have any innate abilities to think in three dimensions. Rotate objects in my mind. Yet I bet if I put in the time it would gradually develop. cheers

Anonymous kfg March 11, 2014 11:30 PM  

" . . .there are still plenty of screwed up gen-X parents transmitting Boomer pathologies . . ."

Who received them from the Greatest and Silent Gens. Leary, Owsly, Garcia . . . not Boomers. My own Hippie parents . . . not Boomers.

Personally I take it back to Bismark and Frederick III.

Blogger Akulkis March 11, 2014 11:38 PM  

Your Possible Reader... you sound like me.

Most memorable moment of my high school chemistry course: the teacher saying, "I don't understand this -- you didnb't do any of the homework and got a 10% on the test" I replied, "I learned the material, didn't I? Your lectures are perfectly clear, and I can do the math in my sleep."

Thjrough high school, the only classes I did homework assignments in would be English and Math...every other class, i would only do the projects and take my tests (A's of course)..and I was bored outrof my skull the whole time (1970's and 80's, so the schools weren't all that dumbed-down yet, especially in the one school district where I was in the "gifted & talented" program, and there were enough of us to fill a whole classroom... so all of our core classes, we took together as a group, and the teachers (usually) gave us more difficult material.

Anonymous Your Possible Reader March 11, 2014 11:43 PM  

luagha, yes we did that for several months (If I remember correctly, about 5-6.) It didn't help much. Currently, I follow something similar to the paleo diet. My daughter has more latitude than I do, largely because she is still growing and we want to ensure that she isn't deficient in a few key vitamins and minerals (thus the regular blood tests).

PhillipGeorge(c)2014: I won't deny that behavior certainly plays a factor, which is the point of behavior modification therapy. It's something I've been working on extensively for the last few years in myself and helping develop in my daughter. Personally, I think of it like having Type 1 Diabetes. You either have Type 1 or you don't. If you do, you will always need insulin, your body simply doesn't make enough. That said, there are certain steps Type 1 Diabetics can take to help control their diabetes, most notably diet and exercise. If you don't, your diabetes will be worse, but even if you do, it won't go away completely.

Also, I fully agree there are many psychiatric diagnoses are on the rise. I believe there are two reasons for that: we are learning more about how the brain works and that certain man-made things are changing our body chemistry. When it comes to ADHD, I think it's a combination of both, along with a rise in over-diagnosis. Currently, only a few medical tests have shown promising for diagnosing ADHD. Dr. Amen has done a lot of work with SPECT scanning. There have been several MRI studies done in the last 5-8 years which show a lot of promise in diagnosis, but the expense and worry about the effects of an MRI on a child's brain made this tool out of reach for most patients.

Anonymous Your Possible Reader March 11, 2014 11:50 PM  

Akulkis: Yes, that was certainly part of it too. None of my schools offered an official "gifted program" but there were honors classes, filled largely with the same kids. I was in Honors English during my junior year, after my sophomore English teacher (who had been teaching over 30 years and was the best teacher I ever had) decided that I could handle the lesson part, the homework part be damned. I ended up doing the same thing in there, much to the frustration of the English teacher. He decided I shouldn't go into the Honors English in my senior year (which I found slightly amusing since the only senior English class he didn't teach was Honors, therefore he'd be stuck with me another year anyway!)

Anonymous Anonymous March 11, 2014 11:53 PM  

YPR, if you read the article, you'll notice that he's not claiming that no mental dysfunction matching the description of ADHD exists. He's saying that the term has become a catch-all for a variety of dietary and behavioral conditions that are only vaguely related through their symptoms, resulting in a lot of people being drugged who shouldn't be. Some of the conditions being tossed under the ADHD umbrella are real mental illnesses (he mentioned bipolar and schizophrenia, for instance), but most are not. They've been tossed in with ADHD because it's a fashionable diagnosis with a quick drug fix that's profitable for doctor and drug company alike.

It's kinda like the way AIDS gradually became a list of about 30 diseases, some of which aren't even immune deficiency related, because that's where the money and sympathy was.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 11, 2014 11:58 PM  

As has been discussed exhaustively... you stupid fuck... most millenials are in fact the children of baby boomers... not Xers.

I'm GenX.. Anyone who suggested putting one of my kids on ADD meds would have no further contact with any of my kids, and would only have my self control to thank for not needing medical attention themselves.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 March 12, 2014 12:09 AM  

Your Possible Reader,

please scan this into your mind:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2013/04/type-1-diabetes-cured/

People has appeared normal and lived normal lives with only one hemisphere of the brain.
People have been cured from total severed spine/ complete lesion paraplegia.

Where does miracle start and will power or neuro plasticity or activation of stem cells begin finish or end?

Without a shadow doubt a multitude of western diseases are lifestyle related/ degraded food stock related/

Even this: the physical structure/ conjugation state of liquid water are a mystery. ie. medicinal plain water remains a possibility.

People who say "there is no cure" are doing reverse placebo called "nocebo" - its real, read about it.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 March 12, 2014 12:12 AM  

People "have" ------ typos ------- too many typos

Blogger Unknown March 12, 2014 1:39 AM  

"Silly, right. There are few things that makes a person feel more helpless than being held suspended only by his throat. Especially if he is an adult male."

Grabbing somebody's throat is a potential killing move. I said "silly" but I really meant "wrong". I'd smack a kid across the room before I would go for the throat.

Well, I suppose it is defensible as long as you didn't choke the boy.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope March 12, 2014 2:14 AM  

possible reader, you're engaging in solipsism.

Reread the original post. I agree.
What ADHD has turned into in the last 10 years is complete BS.

Maybe there are genuinely those who exhibit difficult to control symptoms. But more than 90% are controllable through diet and exercise and lifestyle. (such as permanently avoiding television).

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 12, 2014 2:23 AM  

"There are few things that makes a person feel more helpless than being held suspended only by his throat."

One time back when I was in college I got into a drunken argument with a guy from the football team and he tried doing this to me. I was completely unfazed, and proceeded to angrily lecture him about how we could not possibly resolve our quarrel until he put me the fuck down. Which he apologetically did. And then I lectured him some more, and he took it.

Exceptions, rules, whatevah.

Anonymous Idle Spectator March 12, 2014 3:23 AM  

One boy with a supposed case of it was magically cured and never had any trouble controlling his behavior around me after I picked him up by the throat and told him that if he ever kicked me again, I'd rip his balls off and feed them to him.

HIS BALLS, HIS MOUTH.

First, you're talking nothing but bullshit because unless you're willing to shoot someone in the head and going to jail for murder, you'd end up in the hospital if you attacked a martial artist because your precious little snowflake attacked someone.

Don't forget using knives too. Not that I'd know anything about that. Statute of limitations and all... Heh. Heh.

Sure, you'll be mad. And you'll still back down. I've seen it before.

Like Nikolai Luzhin said in Eastern Promises, "Anger is very dangerous. It makes people do stupid things."

Anonymous Your Possible Reader March 12, 2014 9:58 AM  

PhillipGeorge(c)2014: First time I've seen that information and I find it fascinating! I hope they do more research, including a clinical trial!

JCclimber: I wasn't intentionally using Solipsism, just personal experience to explain that many of the reasoning in the comments don't explain it all (for example, outside time will solve the problem, when outside time in fact didn't solve the problem)

I will heartily agree that ADHD is over-diagnosed. It has become a catch-all in the last 10 years, the easy diagnosis for schools and parents without pushing to find other causes. That said, I don't agree, nor do the scientific studies done, that ADHD doesn't exist at all. Rather, I believe we need to be more careful in checking out other possibilities prior to handing a stimulant medication to ourselves and our children.

Blogger Scuzzaman March 12, 2014 2:19 PM  

The late Robert L Kocher once wrote that:

"Fear of messing with you is the only thing certain people will understand"

Or, as I once observed regarding feudal Japan:

"In a heavily armed society, one either gets more polite or one gets more dead"

I've never met a problem child nor a problem dog that wasn't in fact a problem parent/owner with a responsibility avoidance mania.

Like Adam said to God:

"It's not MY fault!"

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box March 13, 2014 7:05 AM  

We didn't have "ADHD" when I was in school, we had "Pay attention & follow instructions, or get your ass beat!"

Which is probably why we didn't have ADHD!

Blogger Friedenesque March 13, 2014 11:53 PM  

C'mon, it's probably a single mom, though your point about the economy's design is salient.

I wonder how many ADHD diagnosees come from single parent homes.

Blogger Friedenesque March 14, 2014 12:04 AM  

C'mon, it's probably a single mom, though your point about the economy's design is salient.

I wonder how many ADHD diagnosees come from single parent homes.

Anonymous JoeAmerica March 16, 2014 4:17 PM  

On the whole system the public schools is essentially completely obsolete, it does not cut it anymore, it needs to be replaced wholesale. That's why kids graduating are essentially unemployable solely on a high school education. There are exceptions but they have other sources of education outside of the public school system. Public schools are a giant babysitting operation which also take opportunity to indoctrinate strangling political correctness. It is a state enforced monopoly providing employment for school administrators and teachers, mostly women. In is current form it does much harm to young boys. You would think the sudden need to mass drug kids in school to make them sit still and be more obedient would be considered a very bad idea. I personally think this will be looked at in the future the same way we look at patent medicines of the 19th century now.
See war on boys - how feminist inspired political correctness in public schools harms young boys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqOTj9NDv80
Alvin Toffler on where the public school system came from and why it is totally obsolete.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04AhBnLk1-s
Juan Enriquez - What being literate is, it is always changing and we are in the beginnings of a big change now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF1pbtu1s3E


Post a Comment

Rules of the blog

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts