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Tuesday, April 22, 2014

A few of my favorite tweets

Some of the more amusing examples of the open minds on the Left:

Adam Roberts ?@arrroberts
I've never been nominated for a Hugo. Vox Day has been nominated for a Hugo. SF esteems Vox Day more than me. That's a hard pill to swallow.

What can I say? SF likes me! It really likes me!

James Worrad ?@jimworrad
Larry Correia?!? Vox Day? The Tango & Cash of stupid have bust outta jail! #hugoawards

Let's get this straight. I am pronounced a die-hard racist and white supremacist, among other things, for the crime of labeling an African-American author a half-savage, but it is acceptable to call two Hispanic authors stupid criminals? I'm just trying to figure out the rules here.

Luis Vazquez @luisishere
So many of my favorite works and people nominated for the #HugoAwards this year, but the Vox Day nomination ruins it for me.

So much for the White myth of solidarity between People of Color.

Charles Stross@cstross
Novelette: WTF is Vox Day doing on the shortlist?!?

I might ask the same question concerning him. He's been a fine author in the past, and indeed, I nominated him for several Nebula awards in the past, but the observable fact is that his work has been in modest decline since the halcyon days of "A Colder War" and Accelerando.

I’m really glad I’m not eligible to vote – it’s just depressing to me to see RSHD on a ballot anywhere. Not just because I think he’s a terrible human being, but because I think he’s a terrible writer. But because I do think he’s a terrible human being, it’s depressing to see him on a ballot. It feels like a victory for the bad guys. And even a small victory for him is a victory too many.

Not a tweet, just a comment at Whatever that amused me. Perhaps I am a terrible writer. Or perhaps not. It's not for me to say. But it never seems to occur to these sad and depressed critics that perhaps one reason why my work continues to become more popular over time is that it contains something that appeals to people, something that they are clearly unable to see.

As noted, given my experience of his writing I’m not expecting great things, but you never do know and I’m willing to be surprised. However, I also acknowledge a personal dislike of the fellow — I think as a human being he’s a contemptible piece of shit — and I would be lying if I didn’t believe that will have an effect on how I approach the work.

I thought this was remarkable; for once we are given a glimpse past the John Scalzi mask and its false expression of permanent amusement. For my part, I simply happen to think that he is a fraud and a bit of a con man. Given that I've pointed out a few of his self-serving fictions, one would hardly expect him to be pleased with me.

And then there are the various people who have accused me of the unspeakable crime of being white. Their confusion is understandable, given my fair skin, but also indicative of a failure to grasp human genetics. The news would certainly surprise a number of families on my mother's side, whose names, were I to disclose them, are not what one would describe as indicative of European descent. But it is reassuring to learn how many white progressives take their duties as Race Police so seriously.

I was also invited to speak my piece by Harlan Ellison:
HEED, IF YOU WILL: I have now received two (2) actual letters (avec postage stamps) and four (4) phone calls, and even one (1) E.Mail concerning someone whose name I had never heard, of whose existence I was blissfully unaware, who aparently has (I was informed) a voluble,
busy "blogsite." Said person goes by the nom-de-plume "Vox Day."

Apparently, said personage has (in the words of at least three (3) of my communicants, who have won MULTIPLE Hugos, Nebulas, Edgars, and on and on) "gamed the Hugo system" and gotten via the tagalong-gang of the website-wad, a chance at, or the actual nomination for, a Hugo.

I do not know this "Vox Day," at least under that name. I do not know what story is under consideration, nor its value or depth of its artistry. I have no dog in this hunt.

Nonetheless, superior writers with creds that would chocke a chimpanzee seem to have their fur bristling. THEY tell ME this ain't a good thing, that it appears to be an electronic end-run to get somebody with a fan-base into contention with others who may or may not be doing "the job" better.

I dunno. I report what is conveyed to me. It ain't my fight, and if wannabes and the entrenched desire to unfurl banners and lob chain-link cannonballs at one another...heh heh heh...I'm a SFWA Grand Master with 4 Writers Guild Best awards, 102 books, 81/2 Hugos, 5 Nebulas, 2 Edgars and more junk metal and Lucite awards than you could cram into ten cells of a psycho ward...(have you noticed, even at age buttin'up'to 80, I don't do humility very well)...if there's a fight, and Big Writers think "Vox Day" is not playing fair, this is a reasoned, smart, informed and rational podium, this site, and I urge strongarm demand cozen and inveigle one and all, including the eye of the storm him/or/herself (hashtag-pseudoinyms are such bullshit) to avail themselves of this forum.

TO WHICH I RESPONDED ON HIS SITE:

 Thank you for the kind invitation, Mr. Ellison. Let it be known that I categorically deny all accusations of ballot-stuffing, cheating, gaming the system, and indeed, not playing fair, with regards to the 2014 Hugo nomination for Best Novelette.

I am a professional game designer with millions of games sold. Rest assured that had I wished to game the system, I would have also been nominated for best novel, best novella, and best short story this year, as I had eligible works published in all four categories.

As you can see from my web site, I also have a popular pair of blogs which average 1.3 million Google pageviews a month. A few - a very small percentage - of my regular readers responded to a post in which I mentioned which works Larry Correia, the popular New York Times bestselling author, was recommending, and added a few recommendations of my own. That was the extent of my "campaign". My understanding that these actions were no different than various other authors have done in the past and well within the zone of fair play.

I believe what is in the process of happening here is very similar to what happened in the news media when Fox News was first launched. The USA is roughly divided in half ideologically between left and right. But the preponderance of the news media product and the current SF/F product is produced to appeal to the left. So, it should be entirely obvious that products which appeal to the right will tend to be considerably more popular, on average, than products which appeal to the left.

For example, my fellow nominee Charles Stross released a novel in 2012, as did I. He is well-known and well-regarded in the SF/F community; I am not. And yet, while THE APOCALYPSE CODEX has 96 reviews and a 4.3 ranking, A THRONE OF BONES, published a few months later, has 142 reviews, and a 4.2 ranking. The relevant difference is that until recently, very few of my readers knew, or cared, what a "Hugo" was.

Most of the outrage is the simple result of a bunch of old white people who inclined to the left being in denial about the fact that a pair of Hispanic writers who lean right are just as popular as some of the writers they prefer.

Labels:

136 Comments:

Anonymous Chris S. April 22, 2014 2:46 PM  

Tango and Cash? That's high praise. That movie was awesome.

Blogger Markku April 22, 2014 2:52 PM  

It's his grandfather.

No, not the Pope. The other man.

Anonymous Alexander April 22, 2014 3:00 PM  

The sound in the background is the prep guys, getting ready to once against move the goal posts. What constitutes "hispanic" needs to be moved five more yards back, and "he won a Hugo and you didn't" may need to be removed from the field of play entirely.

Blogger GF Dad April 22, 2014 3:05 PM  

Rabbits gonna rabbit.

The only surprise is the amount of venom still in Scalzi after he was successful in getting VD booted from the warren. I would have expected an examination and denunciation of the voters, but the closest he got was to express his disappointment. I guess he is smart enough to not bite the hands that have feed him in the past.

Anonymous kh123 April 22, 2014 3:08 PM  

Andrew Marston writ large.

And the underlying feature? They all become depressed when someone they're threatened by seemingly succeeds in - what, creating? Publishing? Starting a business venture? - no, the potential for receiving some form of public or critical acclaim, gaining ground on their seeming turf. Why, it's almost as if they're lamenting "their" culture, territory, and occupation being intruded upon by folks other than themselves, who don't share their politics, traditions, or shibboleths...

Anonymous Brother Thomas April 22, 2014 3:10 PM  

Oh no! That picture is going to cause problems. Vox has some Papist blood running in his veins!

Anonymous jack April 22, 2014 3:15 PM  

Never fear; your writing is just fine. Otherwise, I would not be spending money on same. Those were very entertaining tweets and postings from the dark land.

Anonymous Josh April 22, 2014 3:20 PM  

Yet another example of those hispanics doing jobs Americans just won't do.

Anonymous Rantor April 22, 2014 3:25 PM  

From a detractor:

Will Hill ‏@WillHillauthor Apr 19

Vox Day nominated for a Hugo. Jonathan Ross not allowed near them. Well played, fandom. Great work. Really

Will Hill recognizes that something is amiss... but can't figure out what.

Anonymous Andy April 22, 2014 3:27 PM  

Science fiction is supposed to be fun. It doesn't seem like liberal science fiction fans are having that much fun.

Blogger Nate April 22, 2014 3:30 PM  

a new one star review shows up on Good Reads for The Irrational Atheist... for no reason whatsoever.

"Scarlet's review Apr 22, 14
1 of 5 stars
bookshelves: toilet-paper

I will never read or support any author who has the racist views of this man, it's people like this that spread all the hatred in the world today."

This is a review?

I've said it before... To critique art dishonestly does not insult the art or the artist. It insults the critic.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist April 22, 2014 3:38 PM  

"Larry Correia?!? Vox Day? The Tango & Cash of stupid"

"I think as a human being he’s a contemptible piece of shit"

And once again, the left puts its awesomely superior intellect on display - with profanity, schoolyard name-calling, and 80s pop culture references. Take a moment to note just how much of their typical argument structure consists of these.

Oh, and then there's the whiny self-pity, the out-of-control anger, and the irresistible urge to personalize everything. Which anyone should recognize as the typical emotions of adolescent girls.

Anonymous Salt April 22, 2014 3:40 PM  

Vox, you're definately taking center stage at the Hugos. Take this chap for instance. SFF180 Special | 2014 Hugo Finalists: That Awkward Moment..." 14min devoted almost entirely to you.


Anonymous Anonymous April 22, 2014 3:41 PM  

Glpiggy goes down and anti-racist finds a new blog to troll. Typical.

Anonymous VD April 22, 2014 3:49 PM  

Glpiggy goes down and anti-racist finds a new blog to troll. Typical.

No worries, I'll just spam him. I recall the trolling he did there.

Anonymous Foolish Pride April 22, 2014 3:50 PM  

Your success, or at least your lack of concern on your part about being successful is what is driving these people crazy. They want to ignore you so much, but they just can't help themselves.

I find it quite amusing.

Blogger HaroldC April 22, 2014 3:51 PM  

Vox Day have you given any thought to writing a SF work on the rise of a new sub-species of human? It would be a good opportunity to educate people on some of the fundamentals of genetics?

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 22, 2014 3:51 PM  

Let's get this straight. I am pronounced a die-hard racist and white supremacist, among other things, for the crime of labeling an African-American author a half-savage, but it is acceptable to call two Hispanic authors stupid criminals? I'm just trying to figure out the rules here

Dude, don't even try.

However NPR seems to be the most reliable PC pronunciation guide available to the bewildered and tragically lost out of the closet right winger, wandering aimlessly in the wilderness of racially sensitive elocution. The guy who is just trying not to stand out in a party, he should never have been invited to in the first damn place but it's my wife's sister and I promised I'd be nice this time, especially after the last time I...

Anyway, good touchstone. Remember when you are in Manhattan; the one is pronounced Pwerrto Rriko but the other is not pronounced, Meehiko.

Do. Not. Ask. Me Why.

Anonymous Alexander April 22, 2014 3:55 PM  

Heh heh heh.

So a guy named after a Confederate colonel is lecturing us on why the hispanic man is a racist.

Youtube, irony becomes you.

Anonymous MrGreenMan April 22, 2014 3:58 PM  

The logical follow up to "women ruin everything" is that, when a group of people ceases to respect an institution once it's overrun by the Autumn People, or the Rabbit Warren, or the Effete Academic Commie Brigade, its imprimatur is worthless; its medals are no diamonds, all rust; its awards are largely irrelevant except when somebody like Mr. Correia suggests they matter to him, and, so, people get engaged - not because they care about the award, but because they respect Mr. Correia.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 22, 2014 4:00 PM  

it’s just depressing to me to see RSHD on a ballot anywhere. Not just because I think he’s a terrible human being, but because I think he’s a terrible writer. But because I do think he’s a terrible human being, it’s depressing to see him on a ballot

What the Hell kind of sentence is that?

Anonymous Salt April 22, 2014 4:01 PM  

Vox, you really got to this guy. He even went and spent money.

Matthew Appleton ‏@mattapp 1h

Now officially a 1st time Hugo voter. For what it's worth, we have Vox Day to thank for this -- though not for reasons he wants to hear.


What did it cost him, 40 bucks isn't it?

Anonymous terrorist April 22, 2014 4:06 PM  

you know the one story You wrote is real close to that one Harlan wrote.

Anonymous Anonymous April 22, 2014 4:06 PM  

And once again, the left puts its awesomely superior intellect on display - with profanity, schoolyard name-calling, and 80s pop culture references.

Which pisses me off, because 80s pop culture references are my wheelhouse. The left destroys even that.

Anonymous Alexander April 22, 2014 4:07 PM  

It's going to look fabulous for the industry if they have a record breaking voter turnout openly proclaiming that there reason for voting was to vote against an author they never read.

Maybe next year they can host the ceremony in the briar patch.

Anonymous Brother Thomas April 22, 2014 4:07 PM  

I'm just glad a person of color - and fellow Papist - was nominated. Congratulations.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 22, 2014 4:09 PM  

Did he seriously use Tango and Cash? Not Riggs and Murtaugh?

What a poser.

Anonymous Alexander April 22, 2014 4:09 PM  

It's also interesting how all the conversation about Vox being purged from the SFWA never focuses on the why or the how or the future implications, but the outrage that he didn't accept his new marching orders meekly.

Anonymous Alpha Ralpha Boulevardier April 22, 2014 4:10 PM  

Harlan Ellison is still alive?

Anonymous Noah B. April 22, 2014 4:12 PM  

"Not Riggs and Murtaugh?"

I guess he don't like people of color.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist April 22, 2014 4:14 PM  

OT: Burning Man founder announces plans to hold a "gay-friendly" anarchist festival next to the Bundy Ranch, in an effort to annoy, inconvenience, and publicly mock him.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/22/bundyfest-burning-man-organizer-plans-30-days-anar/

Remember when liberals were in favor of standing up to "The Establishment"? Like all of the left's other "principles", this was bullshit all along. They were all about standing up to The Establishment precisely until they *became* The Establishment, at which point they immediately fell into place as its willing tools.

Never, ever, ever let them forget the lies, hypocrisy, and lack of principle on display here.

Anonymous Brother Thomas April 22, 2014 4:15 PM  

@Alexander April 22, 2014 4:09 PM "...interesting how all the conversation about Vox being purged from the SFWA never focuses on the why..."


I wonder. Was because he was a person of color?

Anonymous SFWA April 22, 2014 4:20 PM  

"Bu-bu-but... we kicked you out!"

Anonymous Heh April 22, 2014 4:22 PM  

"I think as a human being he’s a contemptible piece of shit"

And once again, the left puts its awesomely superior intellect on display - with profanity, schoolyard name-calling, and 80s pop culture references. Take a moment to note just how much of their typical argument structure consists of these.

Oh, and then there's the whiny self-pity, the out-of-control anger, and the irresistible urge to personalize everything. Which anyone should recognize as the typical emotions of adolescent girls.


How could we expect anything less than such cogent, eminently logical analysis from someone who, as he never fails to remind us, has a BACHELOR'S in the PHILOSOPHY OF LANGUAGE (all shall kneel before the mighty power of his credentials)?

Anonymous Orville April 22, 2014 4:24 PM  

So I'm guessing that you are Tango and Larry is Cash?

Anonymous Feh April 22, 2014 4:26 PM  

Oh, and does anyone else think Harlan Ellison is massively overrated?

(Certainly in his own mind.)

Anonymous the bandit April 22, 2014 4:34 PM  

Oh, and does anyone else think Harlan Ellison is massively overrated?

Seems possible. I hadn't heard of him before. But he responded to the rabbiting with shrewd amusement, so he's clearly got a brain.

Anonymous Dongel April 22, 2014 4:35 PM  

Vox; why do you put Amazon reviews forward to Ellison as a measure of popularity of Throne of Bones relative to The Apocalypse Codex?

The below seems more relevant (and directly contra your point)…

The Apocalypse Codex: Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #21,837
The Throne of Bones: Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #61,087

Blogger James Dixon April 22, 2014 4:39 PM  

> Oh, and does anyone else think Harlan Ellison is massively overrated?

The man? I've never met him and couldn't say. His published work. Definitely. But that's IMO, of course, and others don't seem to agree.

Anonymous VD April 22, 2014 4:41 PM  

Vox; why do you put Amazon reviews forward to Ellison as a measure of popularity of Throne of Bones relative to The Apocalypse Codex?

Because dynamic Amazon ratings in that range are irrelevant. That's a difference of two, at most three, books sold today. The Last Witchking is #159 Free today and has been downloaded 1,563 times since yesterday. That also proves nothing.

Anonymous Anonymous April 22, 2014 4:46 PM  

Remember when liberals were in favor of standing up to "The Establishment"? Like all of the left's other "principles", this was bullshit all along.

Yep. When they complained about being harassed by The Man and preached their devotion to the Bill of Rights, that was never anything more than a means to their end. "Freedoms" are simply a tool they'll adopt when useful and discard when not. All that "I disagree with your opinion but I'd fight to protect your right to speak it" stuff? Yeah, they were lying. Surprise.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 22, 2014 4:46 PM  

Here is the thing about Harlan Ellison, he's a performance artist who does writing on the side.

This is not my assessment; it's Neil Gaiman's.

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream April 22, 2014 4:51 PM  

When will trolling leftists be made an Olympic sport, like Zeus would have wanted?

Anonymous rycamor April 22, 2014 4:52 PM  

Ah, the amusement that has been provided to me on this day...

One thing I note, especially after watching that SSF180 video that Salt posted:

It is amazing the mildness of the things that can get one labeled a "horrible human being" (at worst Vox has insulted a few people and had a few feelbad opinions), while in comparison someone who spouts the right party line can literally get away with rape, murder, theft and torture and still not evince such outrage by selfsame adjudicators of human character.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 22, 2014 4:53 PM  

Dongel: "The below seems more relevant (and directly contra your point)…[Amazon Best Sellers rankings]"

In addition to the explanation Vox gave, I would also note that those rankings are predicated on sales through Amazon only. IIRC, A Throne Of Bones was also sold directly through the original publisher's website; these sales would not be counted in the Amazon ranking, I believe. (Though I might be mistaken in the actual sales methodology, if it still passed through Amazon.)

If the same can also be said about The Apocalypse Codex, then the Amazon rankings really have no relevancy whatsoever.

Anonymous Josh April 22, 2014 4:56 PM  

I find it amazing that two people actually sent a physical letter to someone to complain about this.

Anonymous All Shall Kneel etc etc April 22, 2014 4:56 PM  

When will trolling leftists be made an Olympic sport, like Zeus would have wanted?

Odin wants Loki to do that.

But Loki often outsources it to his human minions.

Right Loki?

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 22, 2014 4:59 PM  

The Whatever Warren needs to hire an Admiral Akbar allegory to inform them that they're hurtling at hyper speed into a trap.
Or not.
I am entertained.

Anonymous Foolish Pride April 22, 2014 4:59 PM  

"When I am weaker than you I ask for freedom because that is according to your principles. When I am stronger than you I take your freedom away because that is according to my principles."

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 22, 2014 5:00 PM  

It's like performance art, but interesting.

Anonymous Daniel April 22, 2014 5:01 PM  

That last one was a gem, Huck. I laughed.

Anonymous Harsh April 22, 2014 5:04 PM  

Oh, and does anyone else think Harlan Ellison is massively overrated?

(Certainly in his own mind.)


Yes to both.

Anonymous Nathan April 22, 2014 5:05 PM  

I know this is a digression but Cordwainer Bird said "hashtag-pseudoinyms are such bullshit"?

Anonymous automatthew April 22, 2014 5:09 PM  

What did it cost him, 40 bucks isn't it?

Vox did predict that this would end in the rabbits paying tribute. This here's more of a sacrifice, because the money's not going directly to Vox.

Yet.

Anonymous Daniel April 22, 2014 5:13 PM  

Here's the thing about amazon rankings that is hard to understand for most people: they are fractal in nature in regards to daily sales registered. What this means is that books in the range of 10,000 to 100,000 look a lot alike. There's a "long tail" on either end of the ranges.

So you have to be careful about interpreting much from the transient rankings. What they are great for, however, is in comparing unlike groupings. For example, if traditional publishing's "produce model" of bookselling is correct, you would think that old, formerly out-of-print "non-classics" would consistently rank below last year's award winners.

They don't.

Anonymous Heysoos April 22, 2014 5:33 PM  

The guy in the picture looks pretty white - is this one of those "Spanish people are Hispanics, too" things?

Anonymous Alpha Ralpha Boulevardier April 22, 2014 5:36 PM  

"Freedoms" are simply a tool they'll adopt when useful and discard when not.

The current president of Turkey described democracy as a kind of streetcar: "You ride on it until you get where you want to go, and then you get off".

Pretty much how the left regards individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and a few others.

Harlan Ellison is still alive? I've never forgiven him for caving in to the feministas and writing a coda to A Boy and his Dog just to kill off Vic.

Anonymous MrGreenMan April 22, 2014 5:38 PM  

@Heysoos

Man kissing ring: definitely not German.

Blogger Doom April 22, 2014 5:38 PM  

Almost always half asleep. I didn't realize you were given a nod. I don't know who screwed that pooch, but a solid writer who isn't in the bag for teh stupid, teh gay, teh femmy, getting the nod? Hmm, not one, but maybe two (I don't know the other guy, so can't say, and no, I don't always trust you).

All I can say is, I think your writing is worth every penny and I can see why it is given the nod. Good stuff. So, just bath in the glory of their gloom! I'm doing it a bit for you. Jealous, a bit. Heck, if you get picked, I recommend a Snoopy Dance when accepting the award. Hells yeah.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! April 22, 2014 5:41 PM  

Yeah, sorry, Vox. You're now a "White Hispanic" even if you're not. You're on the wrong side to claim not to be a WASP. You could be a Zulu warrior, and, based on your politics, you'd somehow be an old white guy.
George Zimmerman called.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! April 22, 2014 5:46 PM  

Awesome picture of the former pope, btb. In the mid 80's, my dad was good friends with my church's pastor a famous joker, who gave my family a picture of him at an audience, shaking hands with JP2. 20 years later, long after my pastor died, my mother changed the frame and found that there was a caption on the pic, hidden in the frame. "I slipped the boss a Fiver to put in a good word for you with the Manager."

Anonymous Arcturus Rann April 22, 2014 5:48 PM  

After reading Ellison's comments, on a lark I checked in on the website of comic book writer and Harlan Ellison's best bud in the world, Peter David. As expected, he's chimed in.

Anonymous Nathan April 22, 2014 5:59 PM  

RE: Peter David,

As Larry pointed out, it wasn't the SJW crowd that got a media tie-in novella nominated this year.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 22, 2014 5:59 PM  

The "tolerant" people of the world once again show how intolerant they are. They should be ashamed, but they left that behind a long time ago.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter April 22, 2014 6:06 PM  

Here are some more tweets, related to the github shambling thing:

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/04/two-women-catfight-one-man-gets-fired.html

I guess it is getting harder and harder to consider hiring women in technical positions.

Anonymous Arcturus Rann April 22, 2014 6:07 PM  

@Nathan - I like Peter David's stuff, but he's a progressive liberal parrot in all the worst ways. It was good too see Brad Torgerson chime in over there with some reasoned comments.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 22, 2014 6:08 PM  

Because the Hugos will accept people who despise gays but draw the line at “Star Trek” novels

Peter David is correct.
The Hugos only care for Star Trek ripoffs penned by self-professed rapists.

Anonymous Stilicho April 22, 2014 6:17 PM  

What the Hell kind of sentence is that?

Dude, it's not. It's an emo-tence.

For homework, please diagram it to show the squee/badthink agreement. Extra credit for identifying the implied trigger warning.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter April 22, 2014 6:18 PM  

Twitter newbie discovers it is not as easy as they thought:

http://betabeat.com/2014/04/mynypd-backfires-as-twitter-users-share-photos-of-police-brutality/

Blogger RobertT April 22, 2014 6:21 PM  

That's funny. I'm not all that cautious about what I say and often throw in off color words just for effect, but I'm flabbergasted that so many of these people denigrate VD so horribly and personally. Even VD himself, who acknowledges a tendency toward cruelty is noticeably more civil in his discourse. They obviously don't have very high standards. I'm guessing that's because someone who labors in absolute privacy and has no need to come out except for sustenance may not be well socialized. Every time they open their mouths, they lose readers and supporters.

Anonymous Nathan April 22, 2014 6:23 PM  

@Arcturus,

At least there was some reason over there. Most of what I saw skimming was hatred looking for a convenient target. I think Sad Puppies is going to have collateral damage with Sanderson and Taylor and similar types. Writers who "do the right thing" and still get devoured by the SJWs' hatred. Considering the swipes this year at Rothfuss and Wheaton, and the fact that Scalzi came off as a voice of (passive-aggressive) reason about campaigning, I wonder if we're reaching peak SJW in fandom.

Blogger Matt April 22, 2014 6:30 PM  

I find Adam Robert's comment particularly annoying. If he's judging you based on your reputation as a judgemental asshole instead of your merits as a writer, which I can only assume he is, then it's the ultimate case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm someone that considers myself fairly liberal (at least for my line of work law, enforcement), but I'm not sure that most liberals would agree with me. I don't agree with most of your politics, true, but I don't see you being any more outspoken about your point of view than guys like Roberts, Hines, Scalzi, ect are about the views they (and I, mostly) hold.

Also, I think it's absurd that people are advocating voting against you without reading your work. John Wright is one of my favorite authors, but I don't see eye to eye with him. So what? If I would have let his politics stop me, I would have never read the Golden Age or Orphans series.

Ultimately, I guess this is basically a long way of saying that I certainly plan on reading and ranking all the Hugo nominations fairly and based on their merits... yours included.

Anonymous VD April 22, 2014 6:35 PM  

Ultimately, I guess this is basically a long way of saying that I certainly plan on reading and ranking all the Hugo nominations fairly and based on their merits... yours included.

Good for you. I hope, for the sake of the Hugo Awards, that your opinion is in the majority. Although good luck wading through the entire Wheel of Time....

Anonymous Anonymous April 22, 2014 6:47 PM  

Every time they open their mouths, they lose readers and supporters.

More proof that leftism makes you stupid. I'm sure many of them are book-smart enough, and they'd like to make a devastatingly brilliant argument, but their ideology makes them too stupid to be capable of it. All they can do is attempt to disqualify, disqualify, disqualify -- and the weakest, least challenging forms of disqualifying at that: name-calling and group ostracizing.

Anonymous Big Bill April 22, 2014 6:53 PM  

Vox, you are wise to ignore them.

I remember four decades ago lunching with a 40-something rabble-rousing sci-fi writer when the subject turned to romance, women and the merits of marriage.

At which point he schooled me, going on at length about his ex-wife, how she was a nag, then crazy, and then did a pharmaceutical-grade flip out.

By the time he managed to divorce/dump her and get her off his back (and out of his wallet), she cost him dearly. As he put it then, "she was the most expensive fsck in my life."

Which I, being a callow youth, found brutally insensitive (and sexist, too!). I kept reading his books, however, and followed his career closely. He has done quite well and is, indeed, an esteemed elder sci-fi statesman (and still a rabble-rouser in his dotage).

They will forget, Vox. Just keep writing, like my (rather insensitive and sexist) hero did.

Anonymous Aphelion April 22, 2014 6:55 PM  

@Matt, perhaps you belong to a quiet majority of liberals, unfortunately the vocal majority of liberals are hateful, irrational and intolerant of opinions or facts which disagree with their positions. I just read them beating on a Mormon for his religious opposition to gay marriage. Well the Catholics, Muslims, conservative Protestants, Arabia and over 30 African nations disapprove of gay marriage, so should everyone hate on all of them too? Or should the gays try to let live?

Blogger Outlaw X April 22, 2014 6:58 PM  

uuh made you king, I didn't vote for uuuh! How did you become king anyway?

Anonymous jack April 22, 2014 6:58 PM  

@Nate: I've said it before... To critique art dishonestly does not insult the art or the artist. It insults the critic.

Well said, indeed. I may, with permission, steal this and make use of it.

Anonymous Jeanne April 22, 2014 7:17 PM  

Hey guys,
What does SJW stand for?

Anonymous Don April 22, 2014 7:17 PM  

Hey, if all the nominated works are free does that mean all of WoT is now free?

Blogger Tommy Hass April 22, 2014 7:18 PM  

"OT: Burning Man founder announces plans to hold a "gay-friendly" anarchist festival next to the Bundy Ranch, in an effort to annoy, inconvenience, and publicly mock him. "

The shocking part is that he has done no wrong to them. But see, he IS a white man from rural America and no a city slicker or a kike and that means he is the enemy.

The more I see these people, the more I begin to understand why fascists and nazis sought to remove them. They're pukes.

Anonymous VD April 22, 2014 7:18 PM  

Hey, if all the nominated works are free does that mean all of WoT is now free?

If you are a Hugo voter, yes.

Anonymous Anonymous April 22, 2014 7:38 PM  

Jeanne, SJW = Social Justice Warrior.

Anonymous Which Sniffer? April 22, 2014 7:42 PM  

The homo-Burning Man event next to Bundy's ranch should be called "Burning Witch".

Anonymous zen0 April 22, 2014 7:51 PM  

OT: Burning Man founder announces plans to hold a "gay-friendly" anarchist festival next to the Bundy Ranch, in an effort to annoy, inconvenience, and publicly mock him. "

I see catapults with flaming cow dung to attract their attention, and then giant rpg balloons with steer piss exploding upon their chests, and splattering upward into their skyward eyes.

This is my prayer.

Anonymous Don April 22, 2014 8:13 PM  

Hell that's $40 worth right there. I couldn't finish the seventh novel though. I can't see slogging through the rest.

Anonymous kh123 April 22, 2014 8:15 PM  

Paging Lt Col Kilgore.

Had a new coworker one time announce that he needed his second week on the job off so as to celebrate his honeymoon with the new wife - at Burning Man. Goldbricked like no other for several months after he came back. I've come to have similar prayers as shared above.

Anonymous Laz April 22, 2014 8:25 PM  

Hey, I admit WoT was a little dull in the middle but, certainly not for entire books at a time. It does pick up in later books but, what killed it for me and just about anybody I talked to about it was the ending.

If you want to read something that starts out long winded and turns truly mind-numbingly long winded later on try "The Vampire Chronicles" by Ann Rice

Anonymous WaterBoy April 22, 2014 8:28 PM  

Which Sniffer?: "The homo-Burning Man event next to Bundy's ranch should be called..."

Flaming Man.

Anonymous Scintan April 22, 2014 8:35 PM  

When someone calls you a homophobe for opposing homosexual marriage, the easy knockout response is to simply ask them why they hate Catholics, Muslims and most Protestants.

They have no response which can hold water while not being hypocritical.

Anonymous Scintan April 22, 2014 8:37 PM  

It's time to let the theophobes know that both sides can play the phobia/hate game.

Anonymous Molon Rouge April 22, 2014 8:47 PM  

It used to be that a novel was judged for it's goodness and ability to entertain or educate. Now these idiots, such as Luis Vazquez, are playing pure politics. It doesn't matter the greatness of the work, it matters that the pink robots have a "safe place" to inhabit. Their world is truly a sad, miserable creation. Huzzah! for Vox!

Anonymous kh123 April 22, 2014 9:15 PM  

Huzzah for Vox, haza for the rabbits.

Blogger TetanusScrote April 22, 2014 10:20 PM  

Vox and Correia are Tango and Cash? I'd take that as a compliment! Love that movie! It reminds me that there hasn't been a good buddy-cop movie in a long, long time.

Blogger IM2L844 April 22, 2014 10:29 PM  

I see catapults with flaming cow dung to attract their attention, and then giant rpg balloons with steer piss exploding upon their chests, and splattering upward into their skyward eyes.

This is my prayer.


What, no creatively hideous weenie roast?

Anonymous zen0 April 22, 2014 10:32 PM  

TetanusScrote in a rerverie, opines :

It reminds me that there hasn't been a good buddy-cop movie in a long, long time.


After much deliberation, I will go with:

"Bad Cop,/ Bad Cop"

Like........You think I am fuking you up, wait till my partner gets here!

Yes, I know this can sound "Gae", if you let your mind wander.
But, I have yet to see a "Good Cop" in the Castalia House (royalties can be sent to........) Lineup.

Anonymous zen0 April 22, 2014 10:38 PM  

Robot Guy IM2L844, in a fit of compassion,yells aimlessly into the night:

What, no creatively hideous weenie roast?

I trust the troops to use their own judgement. We know what the goals are, and the road to ride, we keep all that knowledge, stored up inside.

If a weenie roast it be, then a weenie roast it is!!!!

Anonymous Seer Guy April 22, 2014 10:46 PM  

Spoken in a low ,raspy voice:

Castila House is the first manifestation of the infestation of the state of the nation.

Congregation say............

Yah! Yahuh!

The militarization of the SF/F has commenced.

Congregation........Oh, Yah..........

Blogger Markku April 22, 2014 10:50 PM  

Comment at Harlan's:

Boy, the idea that people on the Right are picked on in SF is so ahistorical as to be laughable. Anyone ever hear of Baen or Tor? Do the names Campbell, Pournelle, Card, and Heinlein ring any bells? The number of writers in the genre who are conservative, reactionary, and/or libertarian is legion. Complaining about the "old white liberals", as if they are some coherent, powerful block in the SF world with the muscle to give or deny Hugos strikes me as either disingenuous, paranoid, or bullshit.


Baen, yes, but Tor a safe haven for reactionaries? I spat my coffee, and I wasn't even drinking any!

Anonymous Foolish Pride April 22, 2014 11:14 PM  

Tor, a nest of reactionaries? Okay *rolling eyes.*

Pournelle is contemptable to them, Card lost whatever grace he got from Ender's Game after his views on gay marriage (he's gotten more heat from that then he ever got from Empire or whatever,) Heinlein was as libertine about sex as anyone to write in the genre, and I don't know enough about Campbell to pass judgement.

Blogger F.T.R. April 22, 2014 11:53 PM  

The rules are simple, if you refer to a black lady as a savage, then you're a racist piece of shit. Enjoy your moment in the sun, I'm being voted no award based entirely on you being a piece of shit won't phase you. but it really should

Anonymous Daniel April 23, 2014 12:26 AM  

...I read that too, laughed so hard I spat Markku's coffee.

Concerned citizens are concerned.

I believe I may be in the minority among the Ilk, because, although I had vaguely recalled a technology columnist by the name of Vox Day in the 90s I really didn't pay attention to politics: I figured it was all (CNN/Fox, Dem-GOP, Calvinist-Atheist) a left-wing plot to make me feel bad about being free. My introduction was to Theodore Beale, author of the Eternal Warriors, and most significantly, Summa Elvetica.

What I was most struck by, most deeply moved by, was --and you can start chuckling now-- was the deep and idealized stoic affection and warmth that SE so thoughly and unironically demonstrated. I honestly thought of Theodore Beale (the name he originally published fiction by, for those unaware) as the most affectionate of writers.

Now having read more of his fiction, I realize how hilariously...correct my initial impressions were. He doesn't flinch from human warmth. He puts live bodies in his books, and carries them through to their stoic conclusion. That's why he could improve on the masterful work of the Programmed Man, why he could write an epic fantasy that I can say without hesitation that it is better than GRR Martin's best (or certainly no worse), why the flawed pacing of the Eternal Warriors 1 and 2 are irrelevant to the drama of the characters, why a death-dealing space mystery is so much fun...

Because he writes with something that so many Hugo winners and Nebula logrollers can't begin to grasp - human affection, a quality long since abandoned to the "dignity" and "correct thinking" of the soulless and unreadable Tracts of Tor commodities market trading of the diminishing returns of the Art Formerly Known as Books.

And that's the real irony: the people who can't feel still hate the things that force them -- for once in their miserable, fading lives to do the one thing they've cocooned themselves against -- to feel something beyond their own appetites.

It isn't just that McRapey is incapable of magnificence: he is, indeed, incapable...it is that he doesn't even know that magnificence is something worthy of aspiring to, though the result for all men who so aspire is nonetheless likely failure.

Anonymous Eric Ashley April 23, 2014 12:46 AM  

Campbell was a breaker down of boundaries, on purpose. I'd call him hard and a liberal, but he believed in Mankind dominating the Galaxy which would probably be read as White America dominating the globe nowadays. He also believed in Manliness. He was also very big into Ideas. And lastly, he was smart enough to......hmmmmm.....do what Castalia House is doing.

He took a lot of writers which were perhaps not that great (Vox has better starting material than Campbell did), and train them, and promote them into being the Great Masters of SF. He created the Golden Age of SF doing this by creating these tools.

Anonymous Anonymous April 23, 2014 1:30 AM  

Enjoy your moment in the sun, I'm being voted no award based entirely on you being a piece of shit won't phase you. but it really should

If people with this level of writing ability vote on it, no one should aspire to win anyway.

I used to assume that writers would be people with some natural affinity for words, or at least the ability to form a complete sentence without breaking a sweat. For someone who doesn't know the difference between "faze" and "phase" to be a writer....isn't that like a man with no arms wanting to be a lumberjack?

Blogger Russell April 23, 2014 1:34 AM  

I don't buy many books, maybe one a year. I have a Kindle stuffed with public domain novels, ranging from classical Roman like Plutarch's Lives, to the father of science romances Vern and all sorts of authors like Fielding and James (both brothers). More than I can hope to finish off anytime soon, no need to add anything else.

That said, I've bought ATOB, AMD, and "The Last Witchking" from Vox and, recently, the superb "Awake in the Night Land" as well as grabbing the free ones.

If one chooses to, one can argue my taste in books is poor. Fine, but I'm spending money on Vox and other authors of Castalia House, and not dropping a cent on anyone else of the Hugo nominated crew. And I will continue to do so, three of Castalia House's authors have won me over already.

It might be I'm an outlier, but I don't think so. The winds are changing.

Anonymous Amok Time April 23, 2014 1:35 AM  

Phase on stun. We need prisoners!

Blogger LibertyPortraits April 23, 2014 2:10 AM  

These people will never learn. I've read every single post by Vox and I've never seen his jimmies get rustled (with the possible exception of CL as judge during a debate). It is amusing to read the same bluster over and over again, Vox has always been able to trump the Left's greatest ad hominems (intelligence, race, readership, credentials, culture, linguistics, athleticism, sexuality, and so forth).

Anonymous kh123 April 23, 2014 2:15 AM  

"The rules are simple,"

For native English speakers, yes; relatively.

Faze to black.

Anonymous haysoos April 23, 2014 2:36 AM  

My comment and at least one responding to it were deleted. What's the deal, we aren't allowed to ask about the nationality of the people in the picture? You posted it, it's not like I am somehow digging into private matters. Just genuinely curious as to the hispanic connection.

Anonymous Luke April 23, 2014 6:29 AM  

Note about Harlan Ellison...

A friend of mine got to talk semi-privately with him at a sci-fi convention some years ago. The subject of Robert Heinlein came up. My friend asked him why RH started out so good, and ended up writing largely forgettable shallow chick-oriented stuff. (The transition book was "Stranger in a Strange Land", which was almost unpublished.) Ellison answered (somewhat vehemently) that RH's later stuff was written by RH's wife, Ginny. Going from a first-tier male author to a fourth-rate female author will have predictable results.

I figure even before GH took over, that RH was seriously (and undesirably) much influenced by her. C.L. Moore and her husband, it wasn't.

Anonymous Rantor April 23, 2014 8:28 AM  

Harlan Ellison's web site includes dancing hamsters... I am at a loss for words. It is bizarre in the utmost

Anonymous Jeanne April 23, 2014 8:35 AM  

"It might be I'm an outlier, but I don't think so. The winds are changing."

I don't think you are that much of an outlier either. I read voraciously and am a huge sci-fi/fantasy fan. My children also read heavily and my oldest son is a teenager who loves sci-fi and fantasy too. I spent over $800 on books last year for myself and kids. Now, in the past, I didn't much care about the political opinions and ideologies of the authors of the books I bought and read. I just wanted a good story; one that made you think, had depth and substance, etc. But now, after following this kerfuffle that has erupted over the past year or so with the SFWA crowd, etc., I pay very close attention to it. The loud mouth leftists, the ones who want to denigrate everyone who doesn't think exactly as they do, the incoherent, hateful little dictator wannabes in training, they won't see a dime of my money. Besides, I am guilty of "bad think" after all, so they don't want my money anyway, right?

Screw them. They started it.

Anonymous Wicked King Wicker April 23, 2014 9:18 AM  

Burning Man founder announces plans to hold a "gay-friendly" anarchist festival next to the Bundy Ranch, in an effort to annoy, inconvenience, and publicly mock him.

Where we find that changing words has a deceptive purpose.
These self-proclaimed "anarchists" are ass-hurt because the Fed Govt/Agenda21/Corporate machine couldn't negate contracts between a private individual and a smaller government than the federal/globalist one? "We don't know what anarchy means, but we're going to call our little pagan ceremony anarchist...you know, 'cause it's so trendy!"
These sub-humans like the feel of being thought of or thinking of themselves as some type of anarchist, yet they care not what it actually is or means. They are authoritarians and totalitarians. Their lies and ignorance fool only themselves. Hardly naturalists. They are what they claim to hate.
As for the planners and wealth behind said festival? They know exactly what they are doing.

Anonymous Alexander April 23, 2014 9:23 AM  

I like the idea that Vox should be hurt that people will vote against his writing because they hate him.

This is going to be so awesome. Scalzi's a rabbit but he's a step-and-a-half ahead of his comrades, he has the sense to stick his nose in the wind from time to time. He's going to feel a dread as this whole thing crashes down, rabbits everywhere openly shrieking about their reasons for voting having nothing to do with the book in question and everything to do with the man behind it.

It's a lose/lose/lose for Scalzi. The Hugo is going to be fully exposed to even the dimmest interested party as being a popularity contest among the gate-keepers. His own reward will suffer. He also realizes that the opposition is larger than expected and is now punching back - as a group - and he'll be torn apart trying to appease the enemy while avoid being stabbed in the back by the fanatics on his own side.

2014 promises to be an excellent harvest of whine.

Anonymous Stilicho April 23, 2014 9:28 AM  

If people with this level of writing ability vote on it, no one should aspire to win anyway.

The special ed. class is electing a homecoming king

Anonymous Jonathan April 23, 2014 9:49 AM  

"Most of the outrage is the simple result of a bunch of old white people who inclined to the left being in denial about the fact that a pair of Hispanic writers who lean right are just as popular as some of the writers they prefer. "

Ouch.

Anonymous ___ April 23, 2014 10:54 AM  

From Harlan's Site: "Never heard of him, so I googled his name. I’m not going to bother to comment on his literature but I will comment on his Internet presence. This guy knows how to monetize himself on the Web. I wonder if he would have been successful as an author before the World Wide Web was so prevalent? Guys like this have to turn up the heat regularly in order to feed themselves."

This had me in stitches for a good 10 minutes.

Blogger CarpeOro April 23, 2014 11:10 AM  

Still don't care what a Hugo is. Other than apparently it is used to choke monkeys. Apparently I should look up the list of winners and report them for animal cruelty.

Blogger Markku April 23, 2014 11:12 AM  

Yeah, my immediate thought was to ask, how this monetizing works IN SPECIFIC. I mean, there is not a single paid ad here or at Alpha Game. Those book covers are just image links to Amazon. If they were ones that resulted in any direct revenue, they would have identifiers in them.

No, the only possibility is that he means that Vox is good at attracting the best target audience for his potential new readers to where they can get information about his books. If this counts as being successful about monetizing one's presence, then the bar isn't very high.

Anonymous Daniel April 23, 2014 12:38 PM  

The special ed. class is electing a homecoming king

...for valedictorian of detention.

Hugo this way, I'll go that way.

Blogger Subversive Saint April 23, 2014 12:59 PM  

This is better than the McRapey Rabbit episodes.

Blogger James Dixon April 23, 2014 1:01 PM  

> Just genuinely curious as to the hispanic connection.

And Markku answered your question in the second comment.

Blogger Markku April 23, 2014 1:14 PM  

Also, that's not his only non-white relative. And as I've said before, I have the photo of Vox and his brothers. They are VERY obviously non-white. The genetic lottery just didn't go that way for Vox.

Anonymous haysoos April 24, 2014 2:28 AM  

"> Just genuinely curious as to the hispanic connection.

And Markku answered your question in the second comment."

I understand that the person in the photo is his relative, that wasn't what I meant by "connection."

I am curious as to how this person qualifies as hispanic - is he from Spain or from South America? And if he is from South America, does he have any non-European ancestry.

Anonymous haysoos April 24, 2014 2:33 AM  

"Also, that's not his only non-white relative. And as I've said before, I have the photo of Vox and his brothers. They are VERY obviously non-white. The genetic lottery just didn't go that way for Vox."

Here is a picture of Bradford Beale: http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=14694

Obviously non-white? Really?

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 6:48 AM  

> I am curious as to how this person qualifies as hispanic ... Obviously non-white? Really?

So looks in one picture aren't enough for you, but in another they are? Interesting.

Blogger Marissa April 24, 2014 10:15 AM  

Here's the president of Mexico, Enrique Pena Nieto

Looks pretty "white Hispanic" to me, a term I don't get. White-looking but culturally Mexican/other Hispanic?

Here's Felipe Calderon the last president, a little tanner.

Here's the one previous, looks like some Midwestern grandpa, Vicente Fox

Are they "people of color" or "Hispanic" or would they qualify for affirmative action? The current president looks like Tony from West Side Story (who I think is supposed to be Italian).

I wonder if a fully Spanish person would qualify for affirmative action? What would they check? Caucasian or Hispanic?

I don't know the answers to these questions.

Anonymous haysoos April 24, 2014 4:03 PM  

"> I am curious as to how this person qualifies as hispanic ... Obviously non-white? Really?

So looks in one picture aren't enough for you, but in another they are? Interesting."

What are you even talking about? I don't think the grandfather or the brother look hispanic. And I only linked to picture of the brother because Markku said Vox's brothers are obviously not white in appearance.

The definition of hispanic is pretty broad and vague -- if you've ever read Steve Sailer's blog, he is always posting photos of the very white looking "hispanic" leader ship in the US and some S. American countries -- so I am curious how Vox's family qualify.

Are his relatives from Spain? Or did some relatives live in S. America? If the latter, do any of these relatives trace their ancestry back at least partially to non-European roots.

Anonymous haysoos April 24, 2014 4:19 PM  

"I wonder if a fully Spanish person would qualify for affirmative action? What would they check? Caucasian or Hispanic?

I don't know the answers to these questions."

I went to school with a girl that was Spanish -- born and raised, then moved to the US late in high school. She was very big in the "La Raza" club. Totally annoying that some European chick was milking the AA train, but that's how it's defined so I guess it's not surprising that she would take advantage.

You can read the exact definition of hispanic according to the US census here:

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf

As you can see, the classification includes people from Central or South American countries, from the Caribbean (e.g. Cuba and Puerto Rico), and from Spain. What seems totally ridiculous to me is that, under some definitions of hispanic, a person from Brazil would not qualify but a person from Spain would (because the former is connected to Portugal, not Spain).

Blogger Markku April 24, 2014 4:24 PM  

I agree, the contrast looked much bigger in the photo from their youth, where it was guys with brown skin and black hair - and Vox. From your photo, which I hadn't seen before, I wouldn't call it quite as obvious. But remember, I'm not saying the brothers look specifically Mesoamerican. Just persons of color. Obviously they share the same genetic mixture of British, Mesoamerican and Asian as Vox.

Now, which country in specific? I'm not sure enough to go on record with it. What I remember is that it was some Mesoamerican country that went through some revolution, with Vox's grandfather fighting on the side of the rebels. Perhaps Mexico, perhaps Cuba, perhaps something else.

Anonymous haysoos April 24, 2014 4:53 PM  

"Obviously they share the same genetic mixture of British, Mesoamerican and Asian as Vox."

This is what I was curious about - does Vox actually have non-European ancestry, and if so, from where. As discussed above, the definition of hispanic is pretty broad, enough so that it can include many people who are of exclusively European ancestry.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 5:26 PM  

> I don't think the grandfather or the brother look hispanic.

No, you think he looks white, and that picture convinces you. The grandfather doesn't look white, but you remain unconvinced.

> The definition of hispanic is pretty broad and vague.

Not really. It's only that it's widely misused.

> What seems totally ridiculous to me is that, under some definitions of hispanic, a person from Brazil would not qualify but a person from Spain would (because the former is connected to Portugal, not Spain).

Exactly. And that is the correct definition. The Brazilian is latino, but not hispanic.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2014 5:28 PM  

> Perhaps Mexico, perhaps Cuba, perhaps something else.

I believe Vox stated in a past post that it was Mexico, Markku, but that's only my memory, so take it with a shaker of salt.

Anonymous haysoos April 24, 2014 6:12 PM  

"> I don't think the grandfather or the brother look hispanic.

No, you think he looks white, and that picture convinces you. The grandfather doesn't look white, but you remain unconvinced."

You seem to be having an argument of your own creation here. I don't doubt that the man in the picture is a relative of Vox's or that he qualifies under the Census definition of hispanic. I am merely trying to get an answer to how he qualifies:

Is he from Spain? Is he from one of the Latin American countries? And if he is from one of the Latin American countries, does his family background include any non-Europeans?

From your other post, he apparently lived in Mexico for some time. (Of course, so did Mitt Romney and his family).

Anonymous Jason April 26, 2014 8:22 AM  

haysoos, are you slow? Do you have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time?
Your question was answered in general terms already. VD is of mesoamerican, british, and asian descent.

Which means that the man in that picture could be asian, south/central american, british, or a combination of any of the three.
If he's either the first or the second, he's definitely a "person of color", because he's asian or latino, either of which qualify.

Since VD used him as proof that VD isn't white, it's a safe bet that the dark skin doesn't come from spray-on tan.

I'm assuming that VD hasn't given you more details because he doesn't want to talk about his family in detail in a public place like this, where doing so could put them in danger of receiving threats. He may have other reasons.

But the picture above is enough to show that his forefathers were not lily-white Aryans.

Anonymous haysoos April 26, 2014 4:21 PM  

"haysoos, are you slow? Do you have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time?
Your question was answered in general terms already. VD is of mesoamerican, british, and asian descent."

Yes, towards the end of this thread, in a very general way, by a man who doesn't recall if it was Mexico or Cuba or somewhere else. How could anyone not be satisfied with such an answer.

"I'm assuming that VD hasn't given you more details because he doesn't want to talk about his family in detail in a public place like this, where doing so could put them in danger of receiving threats. He may have other reasons."

The man in the picture is most likely dead and, in any event, we have his photo. Saying what country the picture was taken in or giving some info about the man's ancestry isn't going to put him in danger - that's just stupid.

"But the picture above is enough to show that his forefathers were not lily-white Aryans."

Maybe, maybe not. As we all know, hispanic is an ethnicity, and a hispanic can be of any race, even the "lily-white" race you feel so comfortable referring to with a slur.

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