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Monday, April 28, 2014

A letter to the SFWA

Nebula-nominated author John C. Wright, the author of THE GOLDEN AGE and AWAKE IN THE NIGHT LAND, and one of the most accomplished science fiction writers alive, has publicly resigned from Science Fiction Writers of America:
To whom it may concern,

It is with no regret whatsoever that I rescind and renounce my membership in SWFA. I wish nothing more to do with the organization and no more contact with it.

The cause which impels the separation is clear enough: over a period long enough to confirm that this is no mere passing phase, the SWFA leadership and a significant moiety of its membership has departed from the mission of the organization, and, indeed, betrayed it.

The mission of SWFA was to act as a professional organization, to enhance the prestige of writers in our genre, to deter fraud, and to give mutual aid and support to our professional dreams.

It was out of loyalty to this mission that I so eagerly joined SWFA immediately upon my first professional sales, and the reason why I was so proud to associate with the luminaries and bold trailblazers in a genre I thought we all loved.

When SWFA first departed from that mission, I continued for a time to hope the change was not permanent. Recent events have made it clear that there is not reasonable basis for that hope.

Instead of enhancing the prestige of the genre, the leadership seems bent on holding us up to the jeers of all fair-minded men by behaving as gossips, whiners, and petty totalitarians, and by supporting a political agenda irrelevant to science fiction.
Read the rest of it on his journal. It is a powerful and accurate indictment of the decline of a formerly meritorious organization. SFWA could survive the loss of a minor writer like me without anyone even noticing. But if the very best and most successful writers in the science fiction and fantasy fields see no place for themselves in it, then it is readily apparent that the organization has no reason to exist.

UPDATE: In the comments on Mr. Wright's blog, the Hugo-, Campbell-, and Nebula-nominated science fiction author Brad Torgersen announces that he, too, is leaving SFWA.
It was with great excitement that I first entered SFWA as a full member in 2011. It’s with a deflated and resigned sense of sadness that I am letting my SFWA membership lapse in 2014. Largely for the reasons you’ve cited, John. Instead of tackling (head on) the job of defending authors’ interests in a publishing industry enduring great change, SFWA contents itself by persecuting individual members for perceived sins of nonconformity, engaging in ideological purity tests (“Your papers . . . they are not in order!”) and impugning the reputations of men (and women) who have devoted their lives to enriching and growing the field.

Labels:

141 Comments:

Anonymous RL April 28, 2014 8:38 AM  

It sounds as though the SWFA death spiral may have begtun.

Anonymous DrTorch April 28, 2014 8:40 AM  

I doubt that either of those guys were going to meet their wereseal fiction quota anyway.

Anonymous Lulabelle April 28, 2014 8:46 AM  

lol. Nice Monday morning read.

Blogger Subversive Saint April 28, 2014 8:55 AM  

It still has to warm your heart that you're the only author officially kicked out of the organization.

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 8:57 AM  

Its amusing to me that the hint of losing Scalzi through the SFWA into a mad panic... but losing far more accomplished authors won't make them blink.

Anonymous Stingray April 28, 2014 9:02 AM  

Nate,

John C. Wright must not be accomplished like Thomas Sowell is not black.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 9:03 AM  

Hahaha, how did it take THAT long for someone to notice that John consistently typo'd SFWA? I didn't notice it myself, when I got a sneak peek. It took a commenter at his blog to notice.

Sadly, that'll provide an easy comeback. "Well, he probably wasn't all that involved anyway, not knowing even the NAME of the organization."

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 9:07 AM  

Disqualify!

Anonymous Edjamacator April 28, 2014 9:15 AM  

I think this is an example of the rats making the ship sink. And anyone decent will get off and let them stay on.

Anonymous Daniel April 28, 2014 9:17 AM  

Considering that the organization itself has been typoing its name for quite some time (they changed it to SWFFA back around the McCaffery exception), there has always been something SWFFY about those cats.

I do know that membership used to mean something to me as a reader of scifi and fantasy. It wasn't a stamp of legitimacy, but it was something of an indicator that the author was in the genre with both feet. Now it just tells me that their feet are donned with concrete overshoes. I'd advise them to leave their acronym off everything they do, but they don't care about paying readers anymore.

Anonymous the agnostic lurker April 28, 2014 9:20 AM  

I am already a fan of Vox and Wright.

So tell me of Brad Torgersen. I would like to purchase a book of his, today, if possible. What should I buy?

Anonymous Harsh April 28, 2014 9:20 AM  

That's it, I'm not joining the SFWA. Of course, I'm no way qualified to join, but that's their problem.

Anonymous Earl Ragnar Cheddarman April 28, 2014 9:23 AM  

The SWFA is beginning to crumble. My plan to take up lawn bowling with the severed heads of the SWFA leadership may, therefore, be superfluous.Damn!

Sincerely

Earl Ragnar Cheddarman

Anonymous troll1 April 28, 2014 9:23 AM  

Is Wright going to write an open letter to his Pope next?

Or is he on board for our first Gay Socialist Pope Evah?

Pope Francis ‏@Pontifex 5h
Inequality is the root of social evil.
https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/460697074585980928

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 9:24 AM  

"My plan to take up lawn bowling with the severed heads of the SWFA leadership may, therefore, be superfluous.Damn!"

Damn... I had figured your more for the Blood Eagle type...

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 9:25 AM  

Well, the general feeling here in the relevant Lion's Den was that Brad is too timid for our tastes, and still appeases the rabbits in his writing enough to rub the ilk the wrong way. Competent, sure, but will result in no fist pumps in readers of the ilk persuasion.

Anonymous Salt April 28, 2014 9:27 AM  

Glen Reynolds has chimed in. In USA Today.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 April 28, 2014 9:33 AM  

Sooooo, compared to the general population, this NOW leaves their average estimated IQ at....?
Yep! Once the actual heavy lifting has been done, and subsequent "common sense new rules" allow for free access the treasury....

CaptDMO

Anonymous Furthermore April 28, 2014 9:34 AM  

Oh, Lord...The Hugo/SFWA whining from "THE HUGO NOMINATED" little bitch Vox Day continues! Will the whining attention whore in the back please sit down!

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 9:38 AM  

NB: I personally haven't read anything from Brad, and this was only based on the Ilk response to Lights in the Deep.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 9:41 AM  

Let's play anklebiter bingo. My first entry is: Ann Morgan. However, at this point, this is merely tentative.

Anonymous Nathan April 28, 2014 9:49 AM  

@Salt,

Somehow, for some reason, I think the Blogfather's column will reach more than the Torlings' blogs combined.

Anonymous Josh April 28, 2014 9:51 AM  

Hell, I'm sure Vox and Larry's blogs have reached more people than all the torlings combined.

Remember, you have people with 600 readers a day being treated like big deals in the sjw community.

Blogger JartStar April 28, 2014 9:59 AM  

Lights in the Deep eBook: Brad R. Torgersen

I'm 25% through this collection of short stories and have found it enjoyable so far.

Anonymous The other skeptic April 28, 2014 10:08 AM  

I guess it's good Vox has both Asian and Hispanic covered.

Someone has just officially revoked Asian people's People of Color badges.

Anonymous Susan April 28, 2014 10:11 AM  

Markku,

My guess for anklebiter bingo is Furthermore is actually Taylor. This comment is too "attack cat" for Ann Morgan.

Blogger Cory S April 28, 2014 10:13 AM  

Man, I'm not even one of you sci-fi geeks and the SFWA pisses me off. I would punch SFWA in the face.

Blogger rycamor April 28, 2014 10:13 AM  

The one thing that terrifies the leftie PC police more than anything is the fear of being marginalized. In their minds, they have achieved a hard-fought battle over the past 50 years, finally reaching the summit of being the default viewpoint, and they are absolutely flummoxed when someone not only disagrees, but does so without shame or qualification.

Anonymous Roundtine April 28, 2014 10:16 AM  

Someone has just officially revoked Asian people's People of Color badges.

Maybe they hung on to their honorary Aryan badges.

Anonymous Jeanne April 28, 2014 10:21 AM  

I wonder...do those leading and cheerleading the purge movement, as they look around at the crumbling edifices falling down around them and the counter attacks being launched against them, do they stop and think to themselves, "Shit. We should have never started this!"

No, no, I doubt it. From reading their various comments here and there, watching their interactions with each other, and their continued movements and strategies, it seems that they have absolutely no self-awareness at all. Or they have just deceived themselves for so long, that they truly believe their own lies.

Well, . It's not like they don't deserve this.

Blogger IM2L844 April 28, 2014 10:28 AM  

Oh, Lord...The Hugo/SFWA whining from "THE HUGO NOMINATED" little bitch Vox Day continues! Will the whining attention whore in the back please sit down!

Looks like somebody got their little lavender sensibilities scuffed up, but I would say Vox, as a semi-professional historian, has at least some responsibility to try and document the decline and fall for posterity's sake .

Anonymous Salt April 28, 2014 10:32 AM  

Well, . It's not like they don't deserve this.

Their rabbits, sjw, whatever... and they're enthusiastically humping each other.

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 10:38 AM  

"My guess for anklebiter bingo is Furthermore is actually Taylor. This comment is too "attack cat" for Ann Morgan."

nah... Taylor hates these people more than she hates Vox.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 10:44 AM  

Markku - No mention of how a man is not doing her job but still gets the credit for it and it's unfair that a man can just be getting started at forty when a woman has to be alone. Probably not Ann*.

*Since you're a banned troll anyway just take it in the chops. No need to respond, yes life's 'unfair'. Or maybe you could have just not gotten yourself banned?

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 28, 2014 10:56 AM  

Thirty years ago divisions among the fen were pretty hot over SDI/Star Wars. Things were tense but nobody stopped talking to each other except Heinlein and Clarke, (they made up). Today I don't think it's going to happen. Today I think the rift is permanent.

Anonymous LL April 28, 2014 10:58 AM  

Oh, Lord...The Hugo/SFWA whining from "THE HUGO NOMINATED" little bitch Vox Day continues! Will the whining attention whore in the back please sit down!

Fascinating. Vox writes a post showcasing the words of two authors, and it's Vox being a whining attention whore and a little bitch. This is the observational skill set of the opposition.

Anonymous Josh April 28, 2014 10:59 AM  

That was far too polite and ladylike of a comment for it to be Taylor.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 11:01 AM  

Heh. Quoting Mr. Wright, to a commenter:

Are you John Scalzi? If you are, I really enjoyed OLD MAN’S WAR. Are you a dog with a typewriter and too much time on your hands? If you are, I really enjoyed OLD MAN’S WAR.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 28, 2014 11:03 AM  

All this SFWA and Hugo awards brouhaha is like politics in a neighborhood association. Amusing when viewed from the outside.
Since, after all, we are dealing with Sci-Fi, my guess is that it will be discovered that Wright and Torgersen were really kicked out on April 27.

Anonymous castricv April 28, 2014 11:06 AM  

I'm sure it has been said before by smarter men than me in this space, but would it not seem an opportune time to create your own society for SF/F writers? Even a smaller club with high quality authors could gain traction quickly. Just a thought. I'm sure it is a large undertaking and I'm not sure if it's utility would outweigh the effort required.

However, since our society is quickly fragmenting and more and more people are making their own associations (like the Scouts of St. George), I would not be surprised if you were wildly successful in this pursuit.

Blogger John Wright April 28, 2014 11:11 AM  

"I doubt that either of those guys were going to meet their wereseal fiction quota anyway."

Not true, sir! I resent the, uh, compliment!

For I have wereseals (Selchie) in my LAST GUARDIAN OF EVERNESS and MISTS OF EVERNESS. They are murderous cannibals who flay the skins of their victims and assume their faces and forms, all the while talking like Robert Newton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC_PR7YWQOc

Wereseal quota met, and exceeded!

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 11:14 AM  

For I have wereseals (Selchie) in my LAST GUARDIAN OF EVERNESS and MISTS OF EVERNESS. They are murderous cannibals who flay the skins of their victims and assume their faces and forms, all the while talking like Robert Newton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC_PR7YWQOc

When you say "vampires" today, "sexy vampires" is implied. Similarly for wereseals. So, I'm sorry to say, those sound like legacy wereseals.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 28, 2014 11:19 AM  

John, question on the Golden Trilogy:

Isn't it a bit on the "naively optimistic" side at the end? It fits the stories to a point, but that part stood out a bit to me. Of course this was after skipping quite a bit of sleep the week after I bought the trilogy on my Kindle, so it was not that big of a problem.

Blogger LibertyPortraits April 28, 2014 11:20 AM  

It's Gresham's Law all over again, bad writers driving out the good.

Anonymous Jeanne April 28, 2014 11:20 AM  

On a related note, I would also say that one very good thing came out of all of this SFWA madness, and that is that I have discovered the works of one John C. Wright. And for this I am so much better off. The man is a genius. I'm halfway through "Awake in the Night Land" and I'm floored. I find myself thinking about it even when I'm not reading it... when I'm doing dishes, cleaning the house up, homeschooling the kids...it's that powerful of a read.

I will be buying the rest of his works as well. It's probably the only money TOR is going to get from me...

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 11:20 AM  

OT, new feminist witch hunt:
philosophy PROFESSORS be sexisssssssss-
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-university-colorado-boulder-philosophy-department-20140423,0,1739927.story#axzz2zlsvl56C

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 28, 2014 11:22 AM  

Something stated in Wright's blog or here reminded me of the following quote by Cynthia Ozick :

I'm not afraid of facts, I welcome facts but a congeries of facts is not equivalent to an idea. This is the essential fallacy of the so-called scientific mind. People who mistake facts for ideas are incomplete thinkers; they are gossips.

Blogger John Wright April 28, 2014 11:24 AM  

I prefer the term "retrowereseals". Er, on second thought, no, no I don't. Legacy wereseals it is.

And, yes, my fantasy is much like my science fiction. I try to base my science fiction on real science, and try to base my fantasy on real, um, myths. By "real myths" I mean actual make-believe as opposed to made up make-believe. You can see my definitions are precise and my writing standards are high! I use real retrowereseals!

I also cannot pronounce 'real retrowereseals'.

Blogger John Wright April 28, 2014 11:27 AM  

"Isn't it a bit on the "naively optimistic" side at the end?"

You mean the ending where the utopia is shattered and goes to war? Or do you mean the happy marriages? I like to think of the ending as cynically optimistic, as was, come to think of it, the whole trilogy. The idea was to show the drawbacks of the best imaginable commonwealth of perfect liberty.

Anonymous rubbermallet April 28, 2014 11:28 AM  

i read only about 6 books a year. a chapter or 2 before i drift off to sleep. 1/2 those books are apologetic/philosophical and the other are usually scifi/fantasy. Though non of this affects me, i watch on kind of like how I enjoy following along my friends bouts with Home Owners Associations. Its completely fascinating. I want to tell people about it but i'd feel like a shmoe. My wife asked me what i was reading the other day and i started telling her about this. starting at VD calling that idiot a half savage. About a minute into me talking i could see her face change from general interest to, "what is wrong with you".

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 11:34 AM  

I propose the following definitions:

Legacy wereseal: Wereseals from before wereseals were sexy.

Retrowereseal: Wereseals written today, acting consistently and persistently in the style of legacy wereseals.

Throwback wereseal: Contemporary faux legacy wereseal passes the scene, never to be seen again.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 11:35 AM  

Markku April 28, 2014 9:41 AM
Let's play anklebiter bingo. My first entry is: Ann Morgan.



i'd have thought Fangfan was Ann's most recent incarnation.



Susan April 28, 2014 10:11 AM
Furthermore is actually Taylor. This comment is too "attack cat" for Ann Morgan.



but why would Taylor criticize Vox for bringing down SFWA? wasn't she the one who started up that Science Fascists spoof twitter account?

if anything, i'd think Taylor would be calling Vox a fag because he hasn't posted Scalzi's head on a pike yet.

i'ma go with one of those idiots who keep saying that Vox is a talentless hack with less than zero prose talent ... who have no talent of their own.

dipshit Dan or somebody like that.

Anonymous Philalethes April 28, 2014 11:37 AM  

OT, new feminist witch hunt

Well, not entirely OT. It's the same mind at work. Foot, meet bullet. Let a hundred flowers bloom! And rot.

Clearly, these people don't know how to deal with success. Which is great; even Boobus should be starting to see what they're about. (Christina Hoff Sommers wrote a book titled Who Stole Feminism?. Sorry, Christina, nobody stole it, it's just becoming obvious what it was all along now that it's out in public.)

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 11:38 AM  

Yamamalamadingdong would be another possibility.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 11:39 AM  

Markku - Wereseal? You had a good enough definition but you neglected the sex part. Of course, part of the old stories included a lonely fisherman 'capturing' the female of the species for domestic purposes (I'm sure they were just keeping house). Here's my definition of a 'proper' vampire; an undead being animated by a demonic spirit in need of a good staking.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 11:40 AM  

I wouldn't go with Yama. He chooses proper nouns for his screen names, and he does noncommittal snark. He generally doesn't attack head-on.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 11:43 AM  

You had a good enough definition but you neglected the sex part.

Sexy wereseal is just wereseal, for the same reason as why, if someone says just "vampire" today, you are pretty safe in guessing it's going to be a sexy vampire. Hence you yourself saw fit to add the qualifier "proper" to it.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 11:48 AM  

Markku - Sad isn't it? You have to add a qualifier to describe a soulless monster in need of destruction or a shapeshifting murderous creature that typically hates humans.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 11:50 AM  

Furthermore called Vox a "little bitch".

so we're looking for a Leftist who is secure and comfortable in their casual sexism.


*rimshot*



Markku April 28, 2014 11:14 AM
So, I'm sorry to say, those sound like legacy wereseals.



you forget that homicidal, blood spattering lunacy is catnip to feral women.

you forget that Charlie Manson continues to get love letters to this day.

you forget that Van der Sloot killed a bimbo in his hotel room the last time he was free.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/people-news/6235/van-der-sloot-%E2%80%98hid-natalee-body-coffin%E2%80%99


therefore, 'legacy wereseals' are sexy, sexy beasts.

Blogger JartStar April 28, 2014 11:57 AM  

I think much of the sexy vampire nonsense can be traced back to Interview With the Vampire by Anne Rice, then the next major influence I saw all around me was the pen and paper RPG, Vampire the Masquerade. We played a lot of RPGs when growing up, mostly D&D and then in my high school years most gamers were suddenly walking around with these Vampire books. I only managed to make it through the character creation process with a friend and ended up creating a mummy I do believe, but the entire premise was thoroughly uninteresting to me and I never played. I suppose it was a perfect fit for much of the gamer crowd as they saw themselves as outcasts and pariahs, but fantasized about secretly being in control and being oh so sexy. I noticed the gamer girls particularly liked Vampire.

I'm sure others including JCW have even a better idea than myself of this evolution from Vampires being horrid spawns of the devils, to misunderstood, to sexpots, but this is what I remember seeing when growing up.

Anonymous bw April 28, 2014 11:59 AM  

Josh April 28, 2014 10:59 AM

That was far too polite and ladylike of a comment for it to be Taylor.


Winner.

Anonymous Jeanne April 28, 2014 12:03 PM  

Guys, you have to go over to Wright's blog and read the comments on his open letter, if you haven't already. His responses to some people's comments are supremely awesome! An example:

"Your skill as a shepherd needs work, Legion. I suggest adopting a pose of disinterested loftiness combined with a profound concern for my wellbeing, but keep a tone of aloof disinterest in your pocket like a scented handkerchief to wave in case I fail to react to the first round of hints!"

LOL! This man is a wordsmith of the highest order! Mr. Wright, where have you been all my life! :)

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 12:04 PM  

JartStar April 28, 2014 11:57 AM
this evolution from Vampires being horrid spawns of the devils, to misunderstood, to sexpots



the 'sexpot vampire' trope is hardly new. it goes back to Stoker, at least.

it's just that Stoker's Dracula had a sort of horrific yet irresistible sexual magnetism. sort of a fictionalized trope of sociopathy.

the only 'innovation' of Rice and the newcomers is to do away with the overtly horrific aspects of the undead. now they're sparkly and stylish and cool.

Blogger BigFire April 28, 2014 12:06 PM  

re: Roundtree

Nah, it's in California. Hispanic legislator want to rebrand Asian as not being the right kind of minority. Hell, we (I'm Chinese) are the biggest ethnic group in UCLA, Berkeley. They seek to institute a racial ceiling to prevent more wrong kind of minority to be in college.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:06 PM  

Yeah, Nosferatu is the O.G. Stoker added the sexy. Rice added the gay.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 12:09 PM  

Jeanne April 28, 2014 12:03 PM
Mr. Wright, where have you been all my life! :)



getting 'publicized' and 'promoted' by Tor for a dozen years now.

and yet ... it's almost impossible to find his books in Barnes&Noble.

it's almost as though Tor hasn't the resources for a print run large enough to stock nationwide chains ....

or they have no interest in doing so.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:17 PM  

This makes me think... were werewolves an attempt to escape the gay? And are they in process of catching the gay? I don't know. Haven't looked at contemporary werewolf fiction. But if yes, then I'm happy that the world still makes sense, in its special, nonsensical way.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 28, 2014 12:18 PM  

Y'all almost make me care enough to buy a book by Vox, or John, or Larry and read it...

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 12:19 PM  

Markku... Stoker's Dracula wasn't sexy mate. Maybe a refresher read is in order.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:21 PM  

It is possible that my memory is too much affected by the movie Bram Stoker's Dracula - the last triple-A movie done entirely with practical effects.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 28, 2014 12:22 PM  

a shapeshifting murderous creature that typically hates humans.

hating humans is another legacy or retro trait. The neuvo-sexy wereseals only hate conservatives and people who aren't environmentalists.

What would Hipster Wereseals be? "sexy" wereseals that try to be even sexier by dressing like legacy wereseals?

Stephen King had a pretty good breakdown of the various humanoid monsters. If I remember, vampires represented unconstrained lust. Were-whatevers represented our bestial natures (he used Mr. Hyde as the canonical beast of this type). King, liberal that he may be, at least understood these things represented human failings.

Anonymous Stingray April 28, 2014 12:23 PM  

Markku, you must not have watched any True Blood.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 28, 2014 12:24 PM  

Stoker's Dracula wasn't sexy mate.

He was able to cast a hypnotic spell over people, especially women. And while they were in the process of becoming vampires, they lusted for him.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:26 PM  

Stingray: Heard of it (now that I think about it, probably in the context of it being very, very gay), not seen it.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 12:28 PM  

Markku April 28, 2014 12:06 PM
Yeah, Nosferatu is the O.G. Stoker added the sexy.



errmm, no.

a - Stoker predates the Nosferatu film. the reason why the film almost disappeared is because the Stoker estate sued AND WON for copyright infringement

b - in the FILM, the vampire is defeated by ... a woman surrendering herself to the vampire's 'desires' for the night.
"The book claims that the way to defeat a vampire is for a woman who is pure in heart to distract the vampire with her beauty all through the night. She opens her window to invite him in, but faints. ... He becomes so engrossed [ yeah, you know what i'm talkin bout, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more ] that he forgets about the coming day."

c - the Romanian folk tales don't seem to have any 'sexy' too them. you might have to go back that far.

but then, those stories were likely composed by [ male ] troubadours ...

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 12:29 PM  

if I recall Stoker's dracula even stunk.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:29 PM  

a - Stoker predates the Nosferatu film. the reason why the film almost disappeared is because the Stoker estate sued AND WON for copyright infringement

Yes, I remember all that from the relevant Cinema Snob -episode. Or possibly Cinemassacre. And I was pretty sure someone would bring it up. But I remember him arguing that Nosferatu was more in line with the original vampire myths.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 12:30 PM  

Nate April 28, 2014 12:19 PM
Markku... Stoker's Dracula wasn't sexy mate.



not sexy to YOU.

but then, you're a man.

Anonymous rubbermallet April 28, 2014 12:30 PM  

PZ has now chimed in on the matter! HOORAY!

OpenID cailcorishev April 28, 2014 12:31 PM  

Speaking of sparkly vampires: I watched one of the Twilight movies, for the sake of the Rifftrax. I'd never read or watched any of them, but I saw lots of people poking fun at them online, so I figured it was a natural for riffing. Couldn't be worse than some of the stuff they did on MST3K, right?

Holy crap. That wasn't just bad, that was evil. All those books and movies should be gathered up and destroyed in a cleansing fire, and the author and all those involved in publishing and filming them should be marched to the edge of civilization and cast out -- perhaps launched into space.

I'd sooner let a kid watch hard-core porn than that movie.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 12:34 PM  

Nate April 28, 2014 12:29 PM
if I recall Stoker's dracula even stunk.



as if members of hard core motorcycle gangs bathe regularly.

as if dreadlocks smell good.

as if drug houses are renowned for their hygiene.

face it, Nate.

you're never going to find bloodspattering, homicidal mania to be a turn on.

you sexist pig.


Anonymous Stingray April 28, 2014 12:34 PM  

not sexy to YOU.

It wasn't sexy at all. The movie on the other hand . . . .

Blogger JartStar April 28, 2014 12:35 PM  

King, liberal that he may be, at least understood these things represented human failings.

It is interesting that an entire generation of horror writers have now taken the antonyms of the Seven Virtues and not only have made them attractive they praise them.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 12:35 PM  

Cail - interesting you should mention 'porn'. Fifty Shades of Grey started out as Twilight fanfic. That should be enough to show you the 'soul' of Twilight.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 12:39 PM  

What's the deal with Myers? Seems to have a serious hate on for Vox. He uses adjectives you don't normally seen outside descriptions of Gacy, Bundy, or Dahmer.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 12:40 PM  

Markku April 28, 2014 12:29 PM
Nosferatu was more in line with the original vampire myths.



'more in line', less in line is irrelevant to the point.

sublimated sexual allure ( the vampire must be tempted by A WOMAN in order to be destroyed ) is still a major plot point.

and it's still POST-Stoker.

both of which strike to the heart of your assertion.

as men, most of the titillating-for-women stuff passes us by unrecognized because we it doesn't do anything for us. except maybe generate disgust.

otherwise, we'd all be out reading Harlequin romances instead using the internet for what it's for.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 28, 2014 12:45 PM  

I just wanted to point out one other element of Mr. Wright's letter of resignation.

I am willing... to put aside as irrelevant all discussion and inquisition and condemnation of personal opinions on matters religious, political, and social... Too many members and leaders in SWFA are not willing to reciprocate.

I believe one* of the reasons that Vox keeps "his" fued with the SFWA (in which it seems Vox is gaining allies faster than the rabbits are) in the spotlight is because it is a perfect microcosm of the problem with leftists in general. They are not willing to reciprocate. They will use every ounce of power they can get their misguided little hands on for their benefit and their benefit only. They will never willingly contribute to the pot of civilization.

Rules, sharing, tolerance, justice, all their precious buzzwords are for other people. They exempt themselves.

* another reason is clearly marketing - specifically product differentiation. He sells SF/F. He has a vested interest in making people understand his product isn't the same as the Salmonella-contaminated, cheap plastic knock-offs sold by SWFA and their, um, un-ilk.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:46 PM  

sublimated sexual allure ( the vampire must be tempted by A WOMAN in order to be destroyed ) is still a major plot point.

But not a characteristic of the antagonist itself. This was the point of the episode. The Nosferatu-type vampire - almost (but not quite - 30 Days of Night is a counterexample) non-existent today, is a purely repulsive creature with no redeeming factors. The Dracula-type vampire (further developed by Rice, and almost entirely superseded by that version) HAS sexual allure as an inherent characteristic.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 12:48 PM  

The episode argued, furthermore, that every single vampire falls pretty cleanly in either of these two categories.

Blogger Nate April 28, 2014 12:59 PM  

"The Dracula-type vampire "

Dude... go read the book. Stoker's dracula was repugnant. it was what you are calling Nosferatu.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 28, 2014 1:01 PM  

The "original" vampire novel is considered to be The Vampyre by John William Polidori, published in 1819. It predated Stoker by most of a century. In that story, the vampire is a wealthy British lord who seduces women (and then kills them) So the meme of the vampire as the deadly seducer of women is coming up on it's two hundredth anniversary at least.

Anonymous Rocktransformed (Once, Kyle In Japan) April 28, 2014 1:06 PM  

It's great to see Wright and the others sticking it to the SFWA establishment. I've already got Awake in The Night Land and The Golden Age, and I expect I'll be happy to give him more of my money in the near future.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 1:10 PM  

*shrug*

i consider Manson ( i'm sure he was taking baths all the time ... out in that desert compound
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/05/manson-hideout-in-death-valley-burns-down.html ) and Van der Sloot to be wholly repugnant.

yet they have no problem pulling tail.

i think there might be a reason why i haven't read 50 Shades of Perv yet.

call me crazy.



Stingray April 28, 2014 12:34 PM
It wasn't sexy at all.



i really don't think you're one of the ferals, Stingray.

Anonymous Scintan April 28, 2014 1:27 PM  

Nah, it's in California. Hispanic legislator want to rebrand Asian as not being the right kind of minority. Hell, we (I'm Chinese) are the biggest ethnic group in UCLA, Berkeley. They seek to institute a racial ceiling to prevent more wrong kind of minority to be in college.

As I recently wrote in another thread, if you're not black, you're white. That's how they've set up the game.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 1:27 PM  

Bob k - You are missing nothing regarding Fifty Shades of Grey. I was stuck with that for my only thing to read for almost an hour and a half in a doctor's office. I got maybe fifteen, twenty minutes into it before I was hoping I would have a stroke or heart attack. It would have been a toss up between more Fifty Shades and prostate exam. I gave up and reread the posters on the importance of drinking water to prevent UTIs and options for avoiding menopausal problems.

Anonymous Rolf April 28, 2014 1:28 PM  

Don't forget the ware-seals. You know, the ones running the hardware store.

Or the where-seals, who wear read and white stripes and hide in the most obscure places.

Or the were-seals, who grew up to become walruses.

Or the tight-seals, who typically work around airlocks and plumbing.

Sorry. It's a curse.

Anonymous DrTorch April 28, 2014 1:28 PM  

Wereseal quota met, and exceeded!

I stand humbly corrected.

Anonymous Ain April 28, 2014 1:37 PM  

Jeanne: "Or they have just deceived themselves for so long, that they truly believe their own lies. "

This is it. As we've seen on a post here a few months ago, their definition of winning is totally different from ours (and wrong). That's why they can continually come here and get curb stomped on one point after another, and go away from it thinking they've "won." To them, shutting up the opposition is winning. Kicking out detractors is winning. Banning people and deleting their posts, without engaging any of their points, is winning. Having people they don't agree with quitting their organization is winning. It's a state of perpetual and ultimate delusion.

Anonymous VD April 28, 2014 1:51 PM  

What's the deal with Myers? Seems to have a serious hate on for Vox. He uses adjectives you don't normally seen outside descriptions of Gacy, Bundy, or Dahmer.

I humiliated him by making him twice back down from a debate he publicly claimed to be seeking.

Anonymous Ain April 28, 2014 1:56 PM  

bob k. mando: "and yet ... it's almost impossible to find his books in Barnes&Noble.

it's almost as though Tor hasn't the resources for a print run large enough to stock nationwide chains ....

or they have no interest in doing so."

They don't even have them in ebook form on their online store.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 2:03 PM  

Ain April 28, 2014 1:56 PM
They don't even have them in ebook form on their online store.



that .... would be absolutely inexcusable. should probably result in a suit for breach of contract.

if true.

but it's not.

first book i went looking for is available in Mass Market Paper, Hard cover and ... ebook.

http://us.macmillan.com/counttoatrillion/JohnWright

http://us.macmillan.com/TorForge.aspx

Blogger IM2L844 April 28, 2014 2:09 PM  

PZ might be a good guess for who Furthermore actually was.

Guys, you have to go over to Wright's blog and read the comments on his open letter, if you haven't already. His responses to some people's comments are supremely awesome!

Yep! Good stuff.

Brad Torgersen also has a post over at his place that fleshes out his perspective a bit more.

It appears that Brad has mistakenly bought into the same tired old "politically correct majority" myth perpetuated by the meretricious spokesrabbits of the perpetually stampeding warren.

For now, anyway, the vast majority of the population are theists with traditional Christian family values who generally agree with Vox's overall positions once they understand them.

I would be surprised to learn that either John or Brad suffered any sort of decline in sales due to this move. In fact, I would expect both of them to see a little bump in sales because of it. Just sayin'.

Anonymous Ain April 28, 2014 2:25 PM  

bob k. mando: "that .... would be absolutely inexcusable. should probably result in a suit for breach of contract.

if true.

but it's not."

I'm talking about Barnes and Noble's online store, as accessed through my Nook. It apparently was some kind of glitch. Searching for his name revealed nothing, for whatever reason. It's working now. Thanks for the correction.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 2:34 PM  

Vox - well then you deserve to be spoken of in terms usually reserved for rapists and mass murderers. I mean you really don't expect them to actually want honest debate? They no more want honest debate than that woman(?) wanted actual fans of Larry or you to come over and say why they liked your work.

They want to make bold statements and get approval not take actual risks. Risk means you might be wrong or worse have to admit you are wrong. **shudder**

Kind of OT that Zachriel fellow is over at John Wright's blog trying to pretend he doesn't know what the whole SFWA deal is about. He probably followed the link from your blog. My guess he's a common troll. Maybe clamps, he hasn't sneered about what a terrible book 'The War in Heaven' is yet so maybe not.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 2:35 PM  

Yeah, that Zachriel... now, THERE'S Andrew written all over it.

Anonymous VD April 28, 2014 2:41 PM  

Vox - well then you deserve to be spoken of in terms usually reserved for rapists and mass murderers.

(yawns) What else is new? It's amusing that they are so accustomed to posturing themselves that they can't seem to accept the fact that I truly don't give a quantum of a damn what they think of me.

Anonymous Don April 28, 2014 2:46 PM  

Zachriel pretend not to know Vox other than to say, "Wasn’t he the one who was kicked out of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America? Other than that, we don’t know the details."

Since he obviously went to John's site from here and participated in a long discussion of just this issue I think he's either the dumbest troll in the 'discharge' or a regular troll who just had to pretend not to know to try and keep his anonymity.

Blogger James Dixon April 28, 2014 2:55 PM  

> They don't even have them in ebook form on their online store.

They're available at both Barnes and Noble and Amazon in ebook format. Where have you tried looking?

Blogger James Dixon April 28, 2014 2:59 PM  

> I'm talking about Barnes and Noble's online store, as accessed through my Nook. It apparently was some kind of glitch. Searching for his name revealed nothing, for whatever reason. It's working now. Thanks for the correction.

OK, that's what I get for posting before updating. Glad to see you can find them now.

Anonymous Peter April 28, 2014 3:24 PM  

"My plan to take up lawn bowling with the severed heads of the SWFA leadership may, therefore, be superfluous."

I'm told that there is a *very* nice lawn in Ohio.

Blogger BigFire April 28, 2014 3:46 PM  

re: Don about Zachriel

Larry's arguing list #7 Concern Troll.

OpenID thetroll April 28, 2014 3:50 PM  

> so we're looking for a Leftist who is secure and comfortable in their casual sexism.

Always found that fascinating. Me, when I want to just rile people up with a visceral reaction, my thoughts always leap immediately to how can I insult their intelligence most condescendingly? But with their side, it's always the sexist and/or homophobic slurs first out of the gate. Funny, that.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 4:05 PM  

Peter April 28, 2014 3:24 PM
I'm told that there is a *very* nice lawn in Ohio.



i'm informed that there is both a Bowling Green
AND
and person not currently using his head for productive purposes

...

in Ohio.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 28, 2014 4:11 PM  

Ah! Earl Ragnar Chedderman indeed! Love it.

Team Wright.

I have read enough from the SFWA and their dramas

Anonymous Androsynth April 28, 2014 4:51 PM  

Sorry, "wereseal" is an offensive legacy term inflicted by cishuman fascist oppressors who have not checked their specienormative privilege. The new term is "transpinniped".

Blogger Brad Andrews April 28, 2014 5:21 PM  

John, I was more thinking of where he went off with only good thoughts coming back, or so implied. I am trying to ask this without too many spoilers, though perhaps that makes the question harder.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 6:17 PM  

Now, you wait just a minute here!

Michael Capobianco says:
April 28, 2014 at 1:21 pm

Just to be clear, only one person has ever been expelled from SFWA in the entire 49-year history of the organization. It’s very unlikely that he’ll be reinstated. I hope you’ll think about membership again after these recent kerfluffles have been forgotten.

----

I thought kerfluffle was a Vox pun: a fluffy kerfuffle, because it involves rabbits.

I think this person is reading VP.

Anonymous VD April 28, 2014 6:34 PM  

I thought kerfluffle was a Vox pun: a fluffy kerfuffle, because it involves rabbits.

No, it's a standard English word. I very much doubt Mr. Capobianco reads VP.

Anonymous Pellegri April 28, 2014 6:34 PM  

Would that it were so, but no, kerfluffle is a word I knew long before I stopped off at Vox's.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kerfuffle

It's British!

Anonymous VD April 28, 2014 6:35 PM  

The new term is "transpinniped".

Magnificent. I stand duly corrected.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 6:36 PM  

Pellegri: You write kerfluffle, and then YOURSELF link to an entry that says kerfuffle?

Are you English-speakers blind to letters or something?!

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 6:46 PM  

I mean, how many letters in the one? How many letters in the other? Not same, eh? Then, this SFWA person does the exact same typo as Vox (which I assumed was a pun).

Coincidence?

I THINK NOT!

Anonymous Pellegri April 28, 2014 6:50 PM  

...Oh, so I did. I blame Google; I searched "kerfluffle" and got "kerfuffle", which I now see is their damnable autocorrect in action.

Also my first language is bad English, I beg your pardon.

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kerfluffle here's the relevant dictionary entry.)

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 6:52 PM  

I see, the fluffy one is a Canadian bastardization of Queen's English.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 7:02 PM  

There's ALWAYS one language group....

"Hurr durr, we no likey this word, we make it moar betterer!"

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 7:29 PM  

HOWEVER!

Googlefight results.

Statistically, there is a 6.1% chance that he would just happen to choose kerfluffle over kerfuffle.

Coincidence?

I THINK NOT!

Blogger Tommy Hass April 28, 2014 9:16 PM  

I just read John Wright's responses to Zachriel.

Good God, what a cruelty artist.

Blogger James Dixon April 28, 2014 9:18 PM  

Kerfluffle has always been the word I've heard and seen used. Mostly heard. The fact that kerfuffle was an accepted variant was news to me until a few days ago when I took time to check my spelling. Apparently kerfluffle, kerfuffle, carfuffle, and kurfuffle are all accepted variants. I expect carfluffle and kurfluffle would also be acceptable.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 9:46 PM  

Markku April 28, 2014 6:52 PM
I see, the fluffy one is a Canadian bastardization of Queen's English.



now you're just trying to piss me off.

if it's nae Scottish, tis crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrap.

queens english, my kilted arse.

Anonymous automatthew April 28, 2014 9:56 PM  

Markku: "Are you English-speakers blind to letters or something?!"

Lowercase L is hard to see in non-monospace fonts. I've long considered using a browser-override style sheet that forces all fonts to monospace.

Blogger Markku April 28, 2014 10:18 PM  

now you're just trying to piss me off.

I threw it as a grenade of annoyance, knowing it would hit someone but not knowing whom.

Turns out it went right down the chimney of Hitler's bunker.

Perhaps it was the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

Blogger Desiderius April 28, 2014 10:19 PM  

"(yawns) What else is new? It's amusing that they are so accustomed to posturing themselves that they can't seem to accept the fact that I truly don't give a quantum of a damn what they think of me."

This likely has something to do with the fact that you're the one who has been singled out. Keeping people hooked on a steady diet of external validation is an effective means of social control. The revulsion of this generation of women for men who are so hooked may be some sort of instinctive allergic reaction.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 28, 2014 11:13 PM  

Markku April 28, 2014 10:18 PM
Turns out it went right down the chimney of Hitler's bunker.



i'm Hitler now? day-um, Vox be gettin all jealous like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWtUVDG5M1w

Anonymous Eric Ashley April 29, 2014 12:09 AM  

Twilight's message is 'if you are a hot girl, and keep your virtue, you can date a really hot Alpha from a rich family. And if you keep your virtue you can have a lot of fun and drama, and then get married, and after marriage have really awesome sex.'

Stephanie Myers is a Mormon, ya'll.

Its understandable that you all don't like it. Its aimed at teenage girls.

Blogger Danby April 29, 2014 12:11 AM  

@troll1
first Gay Socialist Pope ever...

read some history. Off by about 800 years.

Anonymous alexander April 29, 2014 12:40 AM  

Vox,

If you are still toying with legal action against SFWA, please note michael capobiano has stated in writing in wrights thread that the Sfwa provided monetary benefits to members.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2014 4:03 AM  

i'm Hitler now?

Weeellll, maybe just Hitler Light - now with 30% less genocide.

Anonymous Don April 29, 2014 10:40 AM  

Twilight's message is that necropedophilia is fine. That being a victim to the point that you smell like food is great and that marrying will literally transform you into a monster and that your child will be a monster.

Fifty Shades of Grey is no more morally bankrupt than the Twilight books except it doesn't try it sugar coat its poison. It is out and out mommy porn.

Anonymous the agnostic lurker April 29, 2014 11:35 AM  

Thanks for the suggestions, RE: Brad R. Torgersen

I bought 3 books b y Togerson yesterday. Also bought books by Larry Correia and John C. Wright.

Amazon says I should buy something by Matthew Hughes...

Any word on Matthew Hughes? Is he a rabbit?

Blogger Herb Nowell April 29, 2014 12:46 PM  

@LibertyPortraits:

It's Gresham's Law all over again, bad writers driving out the good.

It's been my observation (first realized managing employees at a restaurant) that Gresham's Law is a universal and not merely about money.

Blogger Herb Nowell April 29, 2014 1:16 PM  

This makes me think... were werewolves an attempt to escape the gay? And are they in process of catching the gay? I don't know. Haven't looked at contemporary werewolf fiction. But if yes, then I'm happy that the world still makes sense, in its special, nonsensical way.

I've encountered werewolves in two "urban fantasy" series (remember when that referred to Charles DeLint's fairy tales and novels like War for the Oaks). In neither case did they have the gay? The closest would be one series (the Kitty novels by Vaughn) where the central character is the female half of the alpha pair of the pack if you consider the idea of an alpha female incorrect.

Interestingly the other series (The Hollows novels by Harrison) treats vampires, at least dead ones (yes, living vampire as it is caused by a virus), as pretty horrific especially with respect to those enthralled by them (typical comment: "I wonder what his hopes and dreams were before he became someone plaything"). It crucial to the series as the main vampire character is a living one whose is in constant fear of what she'll become after her death (and was before the novels started...think blood as alcohol and the character in AA).

I doubt either is the cup of tea for most readers around here but you asked about werewolves getting the gay. I do think the horror, still very sexy but horrific (I suspect the writer has experience in the S&M world as that's really what the vampires and their thralls remind me of, not in terms of explicit sex but control/dominance/relationship aspects), vampires. She's much closer to Le Fanu (Carmilla) than Rice to my mind.

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