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Tuesday, April 08, 2014

A tale of two responses


Obviously the Firefox Input tool is not the only way in which people communicate their dissatisfaction with Mozilla. But by any measure, it should be readily obvious that the firestorm of criticism directed at Mozilla for forcing Brandon Eich's resignation and the #uninstallfirefox movement, which is growing by the day, is considerably greater than the criticism aimed at the organization in response to Eich's promotion to CEO.

It is both remarkable and telling that while Mozilla's board and its employees were quite willing to speak out when their new CEO was supposedly a tremendous PR disaster, they have remained silent in the face of considerably greater public outrage. This is despite the Happy/Sad metric registering all-time highs and the number of messages running nearly 10x higher than normal and nearly all of them being negative.

Mozilla has made it clear that its values directly contradict those of Christians as well as everyone who believes in the separation of work and politics. As John C. Wright said: "No lover of liberty will continue to use Firefox after this day."

If you haven't switched yet, I encourage you to do so. Pale Moon works very well, and if that doesn't work for you or if you are looking for greater privacy, I would recommend giving Epic Browser a look.

On this blog, Firefox use is already down by more than one-fifth, from 34 to 27 percent of readers. On Alpha Game, it is down by exactly one-fifth, from 30 to 24 percent.

Labels: ,

176 Comments:

Anonymous Toby Temple April 08, 2014 9:06 AM  

So much for the claim that "a free marketplace works that way".

If that were true, then why is Brandon Eich not being asked back to his CEO position?

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer April 08, 2014 9:10 AM  

"You tell me where a man gets his corn pone, I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."

I don't think that this was about responding to complaints. Its about forcing an agenda of conformity upon people. The vast majority of humanity do not have independent thoughts, do not arrive at conclusions based on empirical evidence, nor care how their belief system impacts others.

http://paulgraham.com/cornpone.html

Anonymous VD April 08, 2014 9:12 AM  

If that were true, then why is Brandon Eich not being asked back to his CEO position?

It wouldn't surprise me if he hasn't already been contacted by at least one board member to see if that is a possibility. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he told them no way. They tried to get him to stay with Mozilla in a demoted position, if you recall, but he wouldn't do it. I doubt he has any interest in helping them out of the hole they dug for themselves.

Anonymous p-dawg April 08, 2014 9:14 AM  

I had to revert to Chrome to post this, as the default install of Epic browser doesn't work for me here. Just curious as to why you recommend the Epic browser when it appears that one must disable some of its security features in order to comment here.

Anonymous Alexander April 08, 2014 9:16 AM  

Even if he did - why on earth would anyone switch back to a company that has revealed its true colors? Eich's reinstatement would be the classic "I'm sorry if something offended you" bullshit.

Anonymous VD April 08, 2014 9:16 AM  

Just curious as to why you recommend the Epic browser when it appears that one must disable some of its security features in order to comment here.

Because commenting here is not among the features that I consider necessary in a browser.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 9:17 AM  

Vox, are you able to distinguish between Firefox and Pale Moon users? The reason I ask is because Pale Moon identifies itself as Firefox browser.

Incidentally, after DL Pale Moon, I took the liberty of manually deleting various Mozilla references left within the program's data files, but there are some things which still remain. For example, going into Tools > Options > Sync still allows you to set up a Firefox sync of your history. Of course I'd prefer not to have their name associated anywhere within the program if possible. If there's a way to completely eradicate all traces/connections with Mozilla, I'm listening.

Anonymous Daniel April 08, 2014 9:18 AM  

What is mathematically remarkable is that it appears that even a magnitude order increase of sad does not correlate to the quantity of feelbad in any way. Why, it is as if feelbad isn't even a real and natural emotion...what with its tendency to only be expressed in "safe" opportunities.

Feelbad is too large and fragile to thrive in the chaos of the natural world.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 9:21 AM  

I'm concerned about Michael's question also. By default, Pale Moon announces itself to be Firefox in one part of the user agent string. This can be disabled by fiddling with the options, I hear. Although it will probably then result in many sites complaining about the browser not being supported.

So, the important question is, what part of the user agent string is used for statistics? If the part that says Pale Moon, then no problem. But if the part that says Firefox, then we should make another post recommending that as many people as possible turn the compatibility mode off.

Anonymous Daniel April 08, 2014 9:27 AM  

Markku, how does PM show up in the blog's stats? That's really the only measure that matters. If it is separate from Firefox, the point has been made. If the drop in Mozilla stats here can be traced to a correlated increase in Chrome, that might indicate that PM is not measured separately.

I can't imagine that Firefox wants everyone to port over to PM, however, for obvious reasons.

Anonymous p-dawg April 08, 2014 9:27 AM  

@Vox Logical, and a bit off-putting. I like it.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 9:30 AM  

Yeah Markku, from what I've gleaned from using PM for several days, there are various connections to Mozilla. For instance, if you browse Pale Moon documents, go into Bin > Palemoon folder and you'll see Plugin-container.exe, Plugin-hang-ui.exe and Updater.exe are identified as Mozilla Corporation files. Not sure what would happen if I deleted them. Maybe I should experiment...

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 9:35 AM  

Michael: I'm not concerned about any other connections to Mozilla, than that when a website admin takes a look at the website statistics, he doesn't see the PM users as Firefox users. That's what we need a confirmation for. If he doesn't, then I don't see disabling the compatibility mode as necessary. If he does, I do.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 9:37 AM  

Ok, I've deleted those files. When first restarting PM, it asks if I want to port history over from IE/Windows, which I declined. Then the start-up page loaded and froze, so I used CTR-ALT-DLT to shut down the program. Brought it back up and the same thing happened, so I repeated once more. The third time, it stopped bringing me to Pale Moon's homepage (although it did ask me in a toolbar pop-up if I wanted to, which I declined), then set about adjusting various privacy settings. Everything appears to be functioning properly.

Oh, and up on PM's toolbar, click Bookmarks, then right-click on the Mozilla section and delete it. That takes care of at least some of the leftover Mozilla junk.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 9:38 AM  

For the higher management at Mozilla, those statistics are essentially the product. They're going to have precisely zero interest in that Plugin-hang-ui.exe gets run on as many computers as possible.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 9:39 AM  

Markku, believe me, I want the same thing. It's a question of how.

Anonymous Will Best April 08, 2014 9:40 AM  

Why do you think the board cares? That publisher canceled Paula Deen's book with tens of thousands of pre-orders. Apparently money isn't money anymore. It also matters that it comes from the right kind of people.

Christian dollars are literally no good in several regions of the country.

Anonymous MarkP April 08, 2014 9:42 AM  

Switched to Chrome two years ago. Not going back.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 9:43 AM  

Markku, believe me, I want the same thing. It's a question of how.

As someone pointed out in the other thread, there is a simple setting for this, called compatibility mode. I don't know how, and I don't have time to find out just now. Check some of the last messages in the earlier threads, I think it was very near to the end.

Anonymous Brother Thomas April 08, 2014 9:51 AM  

Jaffe memo.

Nothing is as it seems. We're all controlled and manipulated by very wealthy and powerful forces with an agenda for humanity.

Anonymous Konstantinos April 08, 2014 9:58 AM  

Vox, can you tell which browser someone is using when accessing your blog? If so, how about redirecting those using FF to a page telling them they cannot access the blog out of protest against Mozilla (with brief explanation behind reason for protest), along with instructions on how to uninstall FF.

Do you know what percentage of your visitors use FF to access your blog?

Konstantinos (using IE ;) )

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 9:58 AM  

also interesting is that there appears to have been a neg spike on Feb 20 which was ALSO larger than the 'queer firestorm' which resulted in Eich getting forced out.

anybody have any idea what that was?

it actually doesn't appear to me as if either of the two previous 'firestorms' were large enough to definitively exceed classification as statistical noise ( although the concommitant uptick in Happy would imply that something actually did change ).

the Eich firing though, that's unmistakeable.

Blogger Bogey April 08, 2014 10:06 AM  

Currently using Pale Moon. Question. is it safe do to online banking with PM?

Epic has that one bar configuration that drives me insane.

Anonymous VD April 08, 2014 10:07 AM  

Vox, are you able to distinguish between Firefox and Pale Moon users?

I don't know. I saw Pale Moon show up once, but it's not showing up now. And certainly the Chrome percentage has increased, though only by about 3 percent. Both "check my brower" sites I ran indicated Pale Moon, although one said "Pale Moon (Firefox Variant) 24".

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 10:10 AM  

Many browser say mozilla compatible so the servers can optimize and bugfix the various engines. Unless they are a recognized spider, they should show as other or a.separate category

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 08, 2014 10:14 AM  

when a website admin takes a look at the website statistics, he doesn't see the PM users as Firefox users

Using StatCounter, it shows up as Pale Moon 24.4.
I can't speak to other analytics services.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 10:14 AM  

They tried to get him to stay with Mozilla in a demoted position, if you recall, but he wouldn't do it. I doubt he has any interest in helping them out of the hole they dug for themselves.

Fouling one's nest or warren doesn't make it reinviting.

Passive aggressive works both ways.

I will avoid the other double entendre.

Anonymous Porky April 08, 2014 10:18 AM  

Oh the irony of "liberty lovers" switching to Chrome...

Blogger Bogey April 08, 2014 10:24 AM  

I just don't see how Google is less evil.

I've given Pale Moon a pretty good workout the last few days. So far it has crashed once with flash and spun out twice, i.e. wouldn't load a youtube clip.

It's been more then a year ago that Firefox started borking flash, I never understood why and why it's so hard to fix.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 10:26 AM  

I agree with Porky. My distrust of Google's proprietary code is considerably greater than my wish to see Mozilla die. Chromium I might switch to, but not Chrome.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 10:26 AM  

VD, it's just as I figured. Whenever Pale Moon users such as myself visit your page, it shows up as FF, excepting that one instance.

Markku, I'll probably investigate this issue through a search engine later, but thanks anyway. As long as we stand strong for our convictions and never cave in to their bullying/fascist tactics, that's what's most important in the end.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2014 10:26 AM  

What are y'all using for mobile browsing?

Anonymous The Gray Man April 08, 2014 10:27 AM  

Been using Opera Next at home and have had zero issue with it the past few days. Love it and seems faster than Chrome.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 10:28 AM  

VD, it's just as I figured. Whenever Pale Moon users such as myself visit your page, it shows up as FF, excepting that one instance.

The one Pale Moon instance was probably precisely that one dude testing out disabling the compatibility mode.

Anonymous The other skeptic April 08, 2014 10:41 AM  

If you are a parasite and you want to prevent your host from dealing with you, you need to create all sorts of other, bogus, problems for the host to deal with.

Blogger D.J. April 08, 2014 10:44 AM  

Mozilla is trying to respond. But, so far as I can tell, they are not putting the message out there. I did find this on their official blog: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignation/

OTOH, it takes some digging to get to the blog (you can't get there directly from the front page), and I don't see anyone putting Mozilla's side of the story out there. Is anyone? I keep feeling that this blog post is a pro forma move for them, and defending their reputation is not something they actually believe in. Perhaps because they're only worried about what the right people think of them.

If they are only worried about what the right people think of them, then they really ought to say so and be open about it.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 10:46 AM  

That's true TOS. Kind of like forcing the immune system to fend off various infections (i.e. distractions) while the virus is busy replicating itself and doing internal damage to the host.

Anonymous MrGreenMan April 08, 2014 10:49 AM  

Mozilla gave up tweeting canned responses on the 4th.

Anonymous National Association of Equality Under the Law April 08, 2014 10:55 AM  

Eich made it absolutely clear that he opposed equality under the law for homosexuals. There was a loud outcry directed at him and Mozilla. It was disrupting, as was the fact that the majority of Mozilla employees had no respect any more for their CEO.

Mozilla did the right thing my forcing Eich out, just as they would have been doing the right thing had Eich opposed equality under the law for minorities or women. You do not want a bigot running your company.

Anonymous an observation April 08, 2014 11:00 AM  

Eich made it absolutely clear that he opposed equality under the law for homosexuals.

So did Obama in '08 and I bet you voted for him. Your words ring hollow.

Anonymous VD April 08, 2014 11:00 AM  

There was a loud outcry directed at him and Mozilla.

No, there really wasn't. Less than 10 Mozilla employees and barely a discernible bump in negative feedback. There simply aren't anywhere nearly as many of you sexually abnormal activists as you like to pretend.

Now, go away, Tad. We know it's you.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2014 11:02 AM  

Shut up tad

Blogger frigger611 April 08, 2014 11:04 AM  

Years ago I was having issues with internet browsing and some of my lefty friends told me that, of course, it was because I was using evil Microsoft products, and that the solution would be to use Firefox.
I tried it, and my computer's performance improved in some areas, but in other areas I got a whole slew of new and different problems. Went back to IE. I soon got a new computer anyway. I think my trouble was due more to Windows XP service pack 9 or whatever.
Nowadays Windows 7 works great and IE9 (or is it 10?) is alright, I've had no issues whatsoever. (Man that Windows ME was a dog).
I'm not much of a techie, but I was never impressed with Firefox and was a little suspicious of it since it seemed that everyone who championed it was pretty much a lefty anti-American imperialist, anti-capitalist.
I hope the entire Mozilla enterprise goes bust. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2014 11:05 AM  

You know, I'm beginning to think that a constitutional amendment to define marriage as one man and one woman during the Bush administration wasn't a terrible idea in hindsight.

It would at least have placed significant legal hurdles in front of the lavender mafia

Anonymous damaged justice April 08, 2014 11:06 AM  

"National Association of Equality Under the Law": Why don't you simply exercise your natural rights instead of begging the state for special privilege?

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2014 11:07 AM  

Do not engage the troll...do not engage the troll...

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 08, 2014 11:09 AM  

You know, I'm beginning to think that a constitutional amendment to define marriage as one man and one woman during the Bush administration wasn't a terrible idea in hindsight.

It would at least have placed significant legal hurdles in front of the lavender mafia


Or you would have seen the first ever instance of the Supreme Court explicitly ruling that the Constitution is unconstitutional.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2014 11:12 AM  

Huck,

That's a feature, not a bug.

It would only further highlight the judicial absurdity.

Anonymous Tad's Brain April 08, 2014 11:13 AM  

I'm so lonely.

Anonymous FP April 08, 2014 11:13 AM  

"Oh the irony of "liberty lovers" switching to Chrome..."

Indeed. For various reasons I'm sticking with FF for now and I've gotten flack from Chrome fans for the last few years for not using that, so I'm tired of being told what to use.

Bob, one guess would be people not happy with the v29 beta Australis or Aurora or whatever they're calling it. They're redesigning the UI. Aka, "we're making it more like google and apple." When I heard about this I started reading and looking up alternatives. I wasn't happy the last time they did a UI change but at least they gave you options to bring back the menu bar.

See here: https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2013/12/whywhatiswhere/

Anonymous Quartermain April 08, 2014 11:21 AM  

I had Mozilla removed from my computer.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 11:22 AM  

"Doing good is in our code" is their motto. I think their.code.is.buggery.

Anonymous Michael April 08, 2014 11:26 AM  

Off-topic: Have any of you heard about the standoff between the feds and a rancher, Cliven Bundy, over his property in Nevada, causing (thus far) hundreds of people to show up in a show of support for him? Apparently he's said that he'd rather die than allow the feds to run roughshod over him and steal his property. There are warnings that this could spark something far greater if it comes to blows. The feds even had the audacity to set up a "1st Amendment Zone" for protestors, which was (rightly) ignored.

http://www.infowars.com/supporters-rally-to-defend-family-facing-red-dawn-showdown-with-feds/

Blogger Marissa April 08, 2014 11:31 AM  

How do I post comments here with the Epic browser?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 08, 2014 11:38 AM  

Got a troll on your site? Maybe this guide to troll slaying will help: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Troll_Slaying

Blogger Tommy Hass April 08, 2014 11:39 AM  

"I doubt he has any interest in helping them out of the hole they dug for themselves."

Honestly, I would greatly welcome it if he returned. Would be a fantastic slap in the face of the likes of Tad. So much for "your kind is dying".

Anonymous dh April 08, 2014 11:39 AM  

I hope the entire Mozilla enterprise goes bust

Mozilla corporation probably will go away, sooner than later, since they no funding source now that Google has Chrome.

Firefox the project (and Mozilla the project) will both continue, and yes, they are fundamental lefty projects for lefty people HOWEVER, almost all open source/free software is inherently left-leaning/socialist in nature. 9 out of 10 developers who contribute are left-of-center. It's just the nature of the beat. Open source attracts leftists.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 08, 2014 11:42 AM  

I'd love to see country-by-country breakdowns. On a national basis, Firefox's biggest success has been in the Islamic Republic of Iran, where it was 55% of the browser market.

Anonymous dh April 08, 2014 11:44 AM  

Titus--

That's really because there is no commerical browser that can be used in Iran because of export restrictions on SSL and encryption technology.

Anonymous Philalethes April 08, 2014 11:45 AM  

Mozilla is trying to respond.
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignation


So, Brendan Eich was not fired, but resigned voluntarily. I wonder, could it be that he found himself in a hostile work environment?

Blogger Shibes Meadow April 08, 2014 11:45 AM  

Warning: do not respond to the poster calling himself "National Association of Equality Under the Law". He does not recognize reality as it is and therefore no purpose can be served by replying to his messages. Ignore him and the delusional material he posts.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 11:46 AM  

Firefox is just a base. Pale Moon may use it, but the people behind Pale Moon are not that of Mozilla. Kinda like looking at Volkswagen and not seeing Nazis.

Anonymous jay c April 08, 2014 11:46 AM  

Using IE is asking for trouble. I use it once and a while, but for day-to-day browsing, I've been using Firefox with AdBlock Plus and NoScript for years. Both plugins work great with Pale Moon. I use Chrome on one computer and Opera on another. Not because I like them, but because my customers use them.

Anonymous Randy M April 08, 2014 11:47 AM  

Well, if they take out the 'sad' graph, it clearly shows how they have increased support at this time.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2014 11:51 AM  

> So, Brendan Eich was not fired, but resigned voluntarily.

Sure he did. We all know it was that the board asked him to leave.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 11:52 AM  

Yes, Ilk, all we're asking from you now is a tad of self-control.

Blogger Herb Nowell April 08, 2014 11:54 AM  

I'm sadly stuck at work but I've found PaleMoon running under Wine is performing better than Linux Firefox.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 08, 2014 11:55 AM  

Porky: "Oh the irony of "liberty lovers" switching to Chrome..."

...when they ought to be switching to Iron.

SRWare Iron

It's Chrome, but not configured as spyware.

You gain nothing by using Chrome rather than Iron; you only lose privacy and boost a bad guys' brand.

Anonymous FP April 08, 2014 11:56 AM  

Says the guy who posted the Timo video. :)

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 11:56 AM  

FP April 08, 2014 11:13 AM
Bob, one guess would be people not happy with the v29 beta Australis or Aurora or whatever they're calling it. They're redesigning the UI.



iow, a UI redesign was more 'controversial' than hiring Eich.

you'll note that the FAQ flatly asserts what i pointed out earlier, that there was no way that half the board had resigned in protest over Eich's appointment.

if you take the board at their word, that they applied no pressure to him, Eich may have simply resigned due to the 'public pressure'.

as Vox notes at AG, Gammas are responsibility averse. Eich may have run away before there was even a fight.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2014 12:00 PM  

I just don't see how Google is less evil.

I haven't seen anyone claim it is.

As far as I know, there's no right-wing browser company out there. If you're using a web browser (or most software), it was created by left-leaning folks. If you're lucky, they were more left-libertarian than plain leftist, but don't count on it.

So people aren't dumping Mozilla because there's a right-wing-supporting alternative out there. They're doing it because Mozilla took a big obnoxious stand and they don't want to register their disapproval. For that purpose, it doesn't matter all that much what you switch to, so that comes down to your preferences and concerns.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 12:02 PM  

It's not about right or left wing browsers. It's about hypocrisy.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2014 12:04 PM  

Argh, "Mozilla took a big obnoxious stand and people do want to register their disapproval." Sheesh.

One reason to use a lesser-known browser like qupzilla is that (presumably) its creators don't have a lot of extra time and money to throw at whatever pet causes they might have.

Anonymous Mike T April 08, 2014 12:05 PM  

Switching to Pale Moon won't hurt them. Switching to Chrome in protest is literally one of the most idiotic protests you can do with computers because Google is rabidly pro-gay. It's as stupid as saying piss off to Mussolini or Franco because you'll switch over to Hitler's jurisdiction when you're Jewish.

You want to hurt Mozilla? Here's how:

1. Install NoScript and AdBlock.
2. Switch the search bar to DuckDuckGo.
3. Send them feedback telling them you've done your part to neutralize their revenue raising via Google and will only give them donations from now on IFF they apologize.

Switch to Internet Explorer 11, but switching to Safari or Chrome is just stupid.

Blogger Chris Ritchie April 08, 2014 12:05 PM  

Goodbye Mozilla. Going to Pale Moon today.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 12:06 PM  

Shibes Meadow April 08, 2014 11:45 AM
Ignore him and the delusional material he posts.



yes, dear.



Markku April 08, 2014 11:52 AM
Yes, Ilk, all we're asking from you now is a tad of self-control.


in a more civilized society, you would be boiled in oil for 1st degree punnery.

as far as responding to Tad goes, as i pointed out in the previous thread,
IF Ohio voters are being forced to honor Cali queer marriages due to 'equal protection'
THEN
California citizens should be prevented from publicly registering queer marriages in order to give Ohio voters 'equal protection'.

especially since Cali ALSO voted to prohibit queer marriage.

further,
IF queers have a ( never before discovered ) right to 'be married',
THEN Judge Black should be overturning the entire Ohio law instead of simply requiring recognition of out-of-state marriages.

which means that Judge Black should be summarily impeached BOTH for violation of his oath to uphold the law / Constitution AND gross incompetence in logic.

the fact that this will not happen tells you all you need to know about why the US judiciary is in the state it's in.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 08, 2014 12:07 PM  

dh: "That's really because there is no commerical browser that can be used in Iran because of export restrictions on SSL and encryption technology."

I didn't know this. Thanks.

It's still funny that the Islamic Republic of Iran has been the best market for Gayfox.

Anonymous International Association of Shutup, Tad April 08, 2014 12:07 PM  

Shutup, Tad

Anonymous Jimmy April 08, 2014 12:11 PM  

I already use Google and I.E. No switching required. Sometimes, these things happen. I get outraged and there's nothing that I can do.

Blogger JartStar April 08, 2014 12:13 PM  

I only used Firefox for firebug and some other web development tools, but since Pale Moon installed them fine I can uninstall Firefox. I'm going to stick with Chrome as my daily browser though until Google does something so hypocritical.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 12:13 PM  

This is what happens when one does not #uninstallfirefox

Anonymous civilServant April 08, 2014 12:14 PM  

There was a loud outcry directed at him and Mozilla.

No, there really wasn't.


Perhaps he means apparent loudness rather than absolute loudness.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 12:18 PM  

ain't it cool OT, the railgun is going to sea trials:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/navy-prepares-to-take-rail-gun-to-sea/

just imagine ... an array of these configured as a gatling ... woooooooooooooh.

Blogger Danby April 08, 2014 12:28 PM  

The browser that shows up as PaleMoon is probably me. To set the user agent string (what gets reported to the website that you visit) do the following;
1) open a new tab
2)type about:config in the location bar
3) right click and select new/string
4)string name is general.useragent.override and the content is whatever you want to call it. Mine is set to PaleMoon 24.4.1

Be aware that some websites will break. They try to serve up Javascript based on which browser Javascript engine will be interpreting it. If they can't figure out which Javascript engine you have, they will either serve a generic one, or (even worse) use the IE variant.

OpenID cailcorishev April 08, 2014 12:28 PM  

Switch to Internet Explorer 11

I remember when Microsoft said they were working on a Unix version of IE. Must have been around version 3 or so. There was a short window there when I hoped they would, because MS was really pushing standards compatibility at the time and was actually doing better on things like CSS than Netscape was. IE came from Mosaic, which was first developed on Unix/X and later ported to Windows, so there was no obvious reason they couldn't have made it cross-platform.

They're up to version 11 now, huh?

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 12:28 PM  

Google has not to my knowledge purged anyone over their ancient political contributions. Or censored results. Evil, but not malignant. Tim Cook is much more a high profile activist. And apple and Google hate each other too much to push things.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia April 08, 2014 12:34 PM  

Hooked on Pale Moon worked for me!

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 12:36 PM  

Danby April 08, 2014 12:28 PM
Mine is set to PaleMoon 24.4.1



done.

Anonymous DrTorch April 08, 2014 12:38 PM  

I had trouble sending by bookmarks from Firefox to Pale Moon. Anyone else have an issue? Is there a simple remedy?

Blogger Danby April 08, 2014 12:43 PM  

@DrTorch
copy the contents of
/users//appdata/roaming/mozilla/firefox/profiles/ to
/users//appdata/roaming/moonchild productions/palemoon/profiles

That will pick up your bookmarks, history, password, etc etc

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 12:43 PM  

PM has a tool for that... http://www.palemoon.org/migrationtool.shtml

Anonymous Bozu April 08, 2014 12:44 PM  

How about to see how many have switched?

Blogger Chris Ritchie April 08, 2014 12:45 PM  

I exported the bookmarks to html. I'll import from that once I have Pale Moon installed.

Blogger Danby April 08, 2014 12:45 PM  

dang it. I used the Unix convention of putting variables in angle brackets, and blogger excised them. Try again.
copy
/users/username/appdata/roaming/mozilla/firefox/profiles/generated profile name/*
to
/users/username/appdata/roaming/moonchild productions/palemoon/profiles/generated profile name/*

Anonymous HongKongCharlie April 08, 2014 12:46 PM  

I used the tool, went seamlessly. Win XP 64 bit SP2. Stubborn ole cuss, I know!

HKC

Anonymous Toby Temple April 08, 2014 12:48 PM  

hmmm... Pale Moon looks good.

Blogger JP April 08, 2014 12:55 PM  

Don't be so harsh on the gays. It's understandable that they're so butthurt. Just look at all the shit they have to go through.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 12:57 PM  

4)string name is general.useragent.override and the content is whatever you want to call it. Mine is set to PaleMoon 24.4.1

Actually, there's a better way. Locate string general.useragent.compatMode.firefox (note the search box) and set it to false. Then you will get the exact user agent string the author intended. We tested with Vox, my pageviews immediately switched to Pale Moon. There will probably be a new post on this later.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 12:59 PM  

OT a young female engineer explains how to get the chicks, last 15 sec

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 08, 2014 1:00 PM  

Haven't used FF on a non-mobile platform in years, but unfortunately it's the only browser I've found for Android that has adblocking on all connection types without rooting.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 1:02 PM  

@Markku

done

Anonymous Axe Head April 08, 2014 1:02 PM  

Firefox sends header:
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:28.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/28.0

Pale Moon sends header:
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 Firefox/24.0 PaleMoon/24.4.2

So it's added a piece. A site could, if it wanted to, distinguish this.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 1:06 PM  

Axe Head: That string is WITH firefox compatibility mode. As noted above, you can easily disable the mode. Of course, you will then have some sites complain that you have an unsupported browser. But as for me, I'm willing to pay that price for liberty.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 1:14 PM  

I tried my bank. Said "unsupported, would you like to continue?" hehe, no problem.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 1:14 PM  

We could use a few daring pioneers turn it on and see how annoying it gets, before recommending it to the general audience. In either case, we'll of course warn of the possibility that there are such problems. But it would be good to have some idea about how much.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 1:19 PM  

Got to three sensitive account sites. All good.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 1:21 PM  

"Oh, sorry, website, first I misread your warning as 'fighting for human liberty, would you like to continue?', how silly of me."

Anonymous dh April 08, 2014 1:21 PM  

Markku-- And don't forget to tell these organizations that browser sniffing is a stupid way to operate.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 1:33 PM  

OT a young female engineer explains how to get the chicks, last 15 sec

Anonymous SWW April 08, 2014 1:34 PM  

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/

general.useragent.compatMode.firefox;false
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 PaleMoon/24.4.2

general.useragent.compatMode.firefox;true
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 Firefox/24.0 PaleMoon/24.4.2

Anonymous jay c April 08, 2014 1:34 PM  

Disabled firefox compatibility in Pale Moon

Anonymous SWW April 08, 2014 1:39 PM  

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/

general.useragent.compatMode.firefox;false
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 PaleMoon/24.4.2

general.useragent.compatMode.firefox;true
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 Firefox/24.0 PaleMoon/24.4.2

Blogger TetanusScrote April 08, 2014 1:39 PM  

Do Pale Moon or Epic Browser have an ad blocker plug-in?

Anonymous SWW April 08, 2014 1:42 PM  

http://whatsmyuseragent.com/

general.useragent.compatMode.firefox;false
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 PaleMoon/24.4.2

general.useragent.compatMode.firefox;true
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 Firefox/24.0 PaleMoon/24.4.2

Blogger JartStar April 08, 2014 1:56 PM  

And today is end of XP support.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 2:00 PM  

Which is total MS marketing bullshit. One person in a company I subcontract for, still uses Windows 2000. It works just fine.

Anonymous ENthePeasant April 08, 2014 2:02 PM  

I like Pale Moon a lot. I like Chrome, but would rather eat Drano than help Google. But PM is serving me well. Sorry it's showing up as FF, but at the end of the day I have uninstalled all Mozilla products and that's good enough for now.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 2:03 PM  

EN: Well, it would take you about 30 seconds to try it with compatibility mode off, and you can switch it back at any time.

Blogger JartStar April 08, 2014 2:06 PM  

It works just fine until the hardware fails. Granted that many IT departments have a room full of old parts to cannibalize, but there could and probably would be compatibility issues with new hardware running Win2000.

Anonymous SWW April 08, 2014 2:12 PM  

maps.google.com displays "We're sorry but we don't have maps at this zoom level"

maps.bing.com works fine.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 2:12 PM  

blogger has started dropping my posts intermittently more frequently since i've started using PaleMoon. so, as a prophylactic measure i would suggest:
1) ctrl-a
2) ctrl-c
before attempting to submit posts, that way you can just paste in a failed attempt.

i was having issues with this before but PM may be aggravating the situation.

this subsequent just got dropped out on me and i've had to recreate it.



Markku April 08, 2014 1:14 PM
we'll of course warn of the possibility that there are such problems.



using Danby's method, Accuweather.com was forcing me to browse in mobile compatible mode. backed Danby's out and used Markku's edit, Accuweather now works fine.

so, right now:
1) open a new tab
2) use mouse to copy/paste "about:config" in the location bar
3) c/p "general.useragent.compatMode.firefox" to the search bar at the top of config page
4) use right mouse button to bring up options menu and left click "Toggle" so that the config line shows 'false' at the far right.

Anonymous SWW April 08, 2014 2:13 PM  

PM dropped one of my comments here a well.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 2:16 PM  

my user agent report:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140329 PaleMoon/24.4.2

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 2:17 PM  

The comments are almost certainly just in the spam folder, and Vox will return them when he notices them. I suspect Blogger spam filter discriminates against browsers for which it has a short track record.

Anonymous DrTorch April 08, 2014 2:18 PM  

Thanks Danby.

Salt- I used the tool but it didn't work right.

Trying to figure all of the files I need to copy over.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 2:21 PM  

Please note, people, that the first instance of Mozilla, just at the beginning, is innocuous. Even Chrome has it. If I understand correctly, it's just there because Mozilla was the first on board with JavaScript, and hence every browser is their bitch for that part.

But if it says "Firefox" anywhere, then you are no lover of liberty...

j/k

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 2:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 2:24 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger ajw308 April 08, 2014 2:36 PM  

I've dropped firefox, both at home and at work. The firefox migration tool works well and brings over all your old bookmarks.

Anonymous Axe Head April 08, 2014 2:36 PM  

Thanks for cleaing up the compat mode, what I posted as User-Agent was default settings.

I'm going to run PM in non-compat mode for the time being.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 08, 2014 2:36 PM  

maps.google.com works fine for me.

even better, the brand new stupid control schema/layout that google was trying is gone and i'm back to the previous layout style they had.

unless google has rolled this back for everybody?

Blogger ajw308 April 08, 2014 2:36 PM  

I've dropped firefox, both at home and at work. The firefox migration tool works well and brings over all your old bookmarks.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2014 2:38 PM  

> Salt- I used the tool but it didn't work right.

In my experience, both Firefox and Pale Moon have to be closed for it to work properly.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2014 2:41 PM  

> One person in a company I subcontract for, still uses Windows 2000. It works just fine.

So will XP, unless you need to re-authenticate and Microsoft turns off the authentication servers.

Anonymous jay c April 08, 2014 2:46 PM  

Wish I could uninstall Thunderbird, but I haven't found a suitable replacement. Tried Opera Mail. Hated it. I have 9 different email accounts configured, and that eliminates most other free email clients.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 2:46 PM  

So will XP, unless you need to re-authenticate and Microsoft turns off the authentication servers.

I'd say they probably won't do that, at least for years. It would be seen by the industry as an active countermeasure, whereas so far "end of support" has been understood as a passive one - no longer going out of one's way to assist the customer but not sabotaging him either.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2014 2:52 PM  

> I'd say they probably won't do that, at least for years.

I'd guess you're correct, since too many business are still dependent on XP for various purposes. But the day will come.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 3:04 PM  

In my experience, both Firefox and Pale Moon have to be closed for it to work properly.

It says that right on the page.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2014 3:06 PM  

> It says that right on the page.

What? You read directions? What are you, un-American?

Anonymous ENthepeasant April 08, 2014 3:16 PM  

It's done but my comments aren't showing up here.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 3:21 PM  

Vox checked, they are not in the spam trap. Strange. I don't think I've had a single comment of mine disappear, but then again, I'm commenting with my Google profile.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2014 3:23 PM  

> ...but then again, I'm commenting with my Google profile.

Likewise. I've made the change, but not restarted Pale Moon. However, that type of change shouldn't require a restart.

Anonymous LarryR April 08, 2014 3:23 PM  

Try http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html and scroll down to see the full display of navigator.userAgent. Also, use his link to WhichBrowser (http://whichbrowser.net), which shows the final, operative entry in the list, but also shows the whole list. When you set the compatMode to false, it will eliminate the mention of Firefox. A site that detects correctly should use the final entry, which would be PaleMoon irrespective of the compatMode setting.

Anonymous VD April 08, 2014 3:31 PM  

It's done but my comments aren't showing up here.

Is this some sort of Zen koan?

Blogger RCR_Chris April 08, 2014 3:37 PM  

Attempting to post from SRWare Iron....

Regarding the issue of Epic browser not allowing Blogger comments without disabling security settings appears to be due to the fact that Blogger is owned by Google, and as such, posts are automatically indexed by Google, running contrary to Epic's privacy protection objective.

Anonymous harry12 April 08, 2014 3:48 PM  

.
Markku April 08, 2014 1:14 PM

We could use a few daring pioneers turn it on and see how annoying it gets, before recommending it to the general audience. In either case, we'll of course warn of the possibility that there are such problems. But it would be good to have some idea about how much.


Had a few sites requiring an extra 'click' but the Netflix site required me to toggle that config string.

While browsing Pale Moon sites, I noticed (somewhere) an addon that put that toggle up front. Gonna check 'history'...
.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 3:58 PM  

It is my understanding that Netflix uses Chrome's proprietary rendering features directly, if you use it to watch Netflix. Hence, it is able to display Super HD on Chrome (even though it is not reflected in the icon, which says just plain HD).

So, what I've done is, I made a shortcut to Chrome on my desktop, then added "http://www.netflix.com" to the end of the command line, downloaded a Netflix icon from the internet, and then put that shortcut into my Windows 7 taskbar. Looks very clean. See screenshot.

I mean, if I use Chrome only for Netflix, then Google is probably not going to be able to do anything mind-bogglingly evil with it. Like make it suddenly show My Little Pony.... Well, ok, they could but I'm just going to have to risk it.

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2014 4:29 PM  

Markku, ever play with Chromecast? It's kinda fun.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 4:29 PM  

No.

Anonymous Heywood Floyd April 08, 2014 4:53 PM  

I would like to be other than "anonymous", however I use Disqus and eschew the other options presented as choices. I fully expect to be deleted, though understand that I mean no disrespect.

Has anyone considered the option of simply using Internet Explorer? I mean, it works for me....

OpenID pharnham April 08, 2014 5:02 PM  

How about using Internet Explorer? Works just fine for me...

Anonymous Servant April 08, 2014 5:38 PM  

I have converted home and work to Comodo's Dragon (Chromium based) browser,. seems to work well for all I do so far.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 08, 2014 5:50 PM  

Did you know that OkCupids' CEO also gave money to an Anti-Gay campaign once? ITS TRUE!

OkCupid's CEO Donated to an Anti-Gay Campaign Once, Too

I'm starting to wonder if it's possible to over dose on schadenfreude.

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 08, 2014 5:56 PM  

Google has not to my knowledge purged anyone over their ancient political contributions. Or censored results. Evil, but not malignant.

Yet.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 7:11 PM  

How about using Internet Explorer? Works just fine for me...

It's a weird time to live in, but in my opinion that's the least evil of the big ones. Not counting Opera as a big one, anymore.

Anonymous Varenius April 08, 2014 7:25 PM  

TetanusScrote: Do Pale Moon or Epic Browser have an ad blocker plug-in?

Pale Moon is fully compatible with all Firefox plug-ins. So, yes for PM.

Anonymous Varenius April 08, 2014 7:31 PM  

Markku: Not counting Opera as a big one, anymore.

What is going on with them? They seem to be in serious decline, even closing down their online community recently.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 7:32 PM  

But note that you MAY have to switch compatibility mode back on (IF you have used the instructions in the newer thread) when you install the extension, because otherwise the offering site has no reason to believe it can install the extension to your browser. After it's installed, turn the mode back off.

Or, if you haven't fiddled with compatibilityMode.firefox, then you just install like you would with Firefox.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 7:36 PM  

What is going on with them?

I think it's because they don't have anything uniquely theirs to offer anymore.

You use IE because you don't know otherwise, or are too lazy to install another browser. You use Firefox because it's genuinely free software and/or you want to use AdBlock Plus. You use Chrome because it's fast. You use Safari because you have Mac + ignorant/lazy.

But Opera has nothing to justify replacing your default browser with it.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 7:39 PM  

And when a browser gets into that death spiral, it's next to impossible to stop.

1) Sites are going to put support for that browser to the last priority.
2) ...Causing more annoyance in its users due to compatibility issues, and causing some of them to switch to another browser.
3) goto 1

Anonymous roger u April 08, 2014 8:35 PM  

What do we know about Pale Moon's parent company?

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 8:38 PM  

How could they show contrition? Require duck dynasty screensavers and schwag, play reruns on unused monitors, and have all food service catered by Chick-Fil-A.

And send the 10 employees who called for Eich's ouster to perpetual "sensitivity training".

A pale moon and a red horse is better than a red moon and a pale horse.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 8:44 PM  

Google already has me nonplussed, so I've deleted my YouTube channel/account. Gmail is still my aggregator, but if they push it I'm moving to bing and bing maps. They've ruined their own maps (MapsWithMe on Android, OpenStreetMaps). I have Google Drive, but I'm moving things to my HostGator Business (unlimited) plan site. I'd go elsewhere but few work with Linux - you have to use their app to sync.

As to the "UserAgent" compatibility, there are several User Agent switcher extensions for PaleMoon, some per site. I haven't run into problems so I can't review them, but I would suggest picking one or more and seeing which one works when you need to pretend to be IE, Chrome, or FascistFaux.

Blogger Markku April 08, 2014 8:46 PM  

What do we know about Pale Moon's parent company?

It's not a company, it's one person (M.C. Straver) making it as a hobby.

Blogger tz April 08, 2014 8:47 PM  

I, Browser.

The Three Laws of Browsotics:

1. Don't mix politics, opinion, or subjective things in with the technology or business.
2. Try to be as open and diverse as possible unless it conflicts with rule 1.
3. Ignore trolls with sunlamps making accusations. Use a mirror to stone them.

Anonymous The CronoLink April 08, 2014 9:58 PM  

@JartStar
If you don't mind me asking, what other web development tools addons you use?

Blogger Eclecticity April 08, 2014 11:07 PM  

Fuck Pale Moon. Try to download it and my anti-virus lights up all over the place. Thanks VD.

Blogger Jason April 08, 2014 11:42 PM  

I made the jump to chrome instead. Seems to work fine.

Anonymous Ben April 09, 2014 12:23 AM  

Josh re: mobile browsing question.

I'm running Habit browser on my android and it works great. Sweet thing is, it's totally customizable. All buttons are assignable, etc. I've tried opera mini, stock android, dolphin, etc, and this one is my favorite thus far.

Anonymous Toby Temple April 09, 2014 2:25 AM  

Chrome has a nice feel and is smoother than Firefox. Sadly, Google monitors every browsing through their "pretty" browser. So no to Chrome.

Blogger Markku April 09, 2014 3:55 AM  

The site could have been hacked, although more likely, that person is a troll. However, let's scan the current exe with as many antivirus programs as we can. Trying F-Secure in the evening when I get home.

Blogger Markku April 09, 2014 3:56 AM  

Current as in, the one you download from the site just before scanning.

Anonymous Soviet of Washington April 09, 2014 12:24 PM  

Karl comments on CA law. Does Eich have the balls to sue? Doubtful, but he appears to have a decent case.

Blogger James Dixon April 09, 2014 1:57 PM  

> Does Eich have the balls to sue?

From what we've seen, he simply isn't that kind of person. He continue the fiction that he resigned. I doubt he needs the money at this point.

Anonymous The CronoLink April 10, 2014 1:17 AM  

@ Eclecticity

Did you tried the official homepage? Otherwise your antivirus sucks.

Blogger Markku April 10, 2014 10:23 AM  

Eich won't sue. His cowardice is PRECISELY in the fact that he resigned instead of forcing them to fire him. The moment he did that, it was obvious he isn't thinking of suing.

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