ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2014 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Wednesday, April 02, 2014

Italy arrests Venetian secessionists

ROMA - Blitz dei carabinieri del Ros contro un gruppo secessionista accusato di aver messo in atto "varie iniziative, anche violente", per ottenere l'indipendenza del Veneto, e non solo. L'accusa mossa dalla Procura di Brescia è quella di terrorismo (270 bis c.p.): 24 i provvedimenti restrittivi, 51 indagati in totale e 33 le perquisizioni ordinate dalla procura della Repubblica di Brescia e che hanno interessato il Veneto. Tra gli indagati nell'operazione anche un leader del movimento dei Forconi e un ex deputato, Franco Rocchetta, già sottosegretario di Stato agli Affari esteri tra il 1994 e il 1995.

ROME - A raid by the military police was conducted against a group of secessionists accused of having put into action "various initiatives, some of them violent" to obtain the independence the region of the Veneto. And in addition, the accusation of terrorism was made by the District Attorney of Brescia: of 51 that were investigated in total, 24 were taken into custody of and 33 were ordered to be searched.... Among those arrested in the operation included a leader of the  Sicilian-based "Pitchfork Movement" and a former member of the Chamber of Deputies, (the Italian House of Representatives), Franco Rocchetta, former undersecretary of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs from 1994 to 1995.
I realize that many Americans will find it difficult to credit, but secessionist movements are literally sweeping the entire range of Europe, from the Crimea in the east to Scotland in the West. It is only a matter of time before the economic contraction and increasing social turmoil lead to similar political developments in the USA, especially as the Obama administration and the Congress exhibit increasing political tone-deafness.

Labels:

182 Comments:

Anonymous Daniel April 02, 2014 1:03 PM  

Secessionists have always been with us. We just need a bit more debt to glue us all back together into one big happy family. Who's lending?

Anonymous The Z Blog April 02, 2014 1:06 PM  

But diversity is our strength so it could never happen in America. Flooding the country with millions of immigrants will only make us stronger!

Anonymous Krul April 02, 2014 1:15 PM  

OT: I've got a question for anyone who's interested in giving their 2 cents.

I'm in the USAF, which seems to be struggling for direction and relevance. Aside from the big public failures like losing the nukes a while back and having those officers fired for cheating recently, the AF's mission of air superiority has little to do with regional police actions in non-industrialized countries where the AF just supports the Army and Marines. Also, Kosovo showed that the operational effectiveness of air power by itself is very limited. I've heard some of our leaders talk about focusing on "cyber superiority" and moving to unmanned aircraft, which makes me cringe.

I want a perspective from outside the box. What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?

Anonymous WaterBoy April 02, 2014 1:17 PM  

Vox: " especially as the Obama administration and the Congress exhibit increasing political tone-deafness"

It's easy to imagine them, praying fervently: "Please, not 'til I'm gone. Please, not 'til I'm gone...."

Blogger Hazim April 02, 2014 1:24 PM  

USAF should join with the Russian military to wage war on the banksters. You'd either win or there would be nothing left for them to plunder.

Anonymous Josh April 02, 2014 1:25 PM  

Krul,

Is carpet bombing NYC and DC an option?

Anonymous bob k. mando April 02, 2014 1:32 PM  

Krul April 02, 2014 1:15 PM
What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?



the doctrine of 'air superiority' derives from the ability to observe and interdict movement of the enemy as well as providing tactical support to ground forces.

strategic considerations of production and supply logistics interdiction have been layered onto it.

much of this is simply a function of height and speed.

what is higher than atmo and involves greater delta-v?



Krul April 02, 2014 1:15 PM
I've heard some of our leaders talk about focusing on "cyber superiority" and moving to unmanned aircraft, which makes me cringe.


whether or not something making you cringe is irrelevant to whether or not it is the most efficient way to accomplish the task.

the sad fact is, that we are to the point where human pilots are significant limiting factors in the g-loading that an airframe can handle.

and even the low g, loiter and observation or ground support stuff ( like the A-10, although that would probably save the least as the airframe couldn't get much smaller and still support that depleted uranium cannon ) is much, MUCH larger and more expensive than it would be if not for the pilot support systems.

the great hazard being, of course, that it's likely that eventually autonomous drones will be turned against the US gen pop.



VD
I realize that many Americans will find it difficult to credit, but secessionist movements are literally sweeping the entire range of Europe, from the Crimea in the east to Scotland in the West.



you're such a silly reactionary, Vox.

don't you know that we are the last men and history has ended?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother April 02, 2014 1:33 PM  

Krul,

The first thing you should do is join Oath Keepers.

Anonymous Alexander April 02, 2014 1:35 PM  

I second Josh.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 02, 2014 1:38 PM  

Krul: "What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?"

Idealistically or realistically?

Idealistically: They should focus on national defense of air/space. This means BMD and home-based fighters and attack aircraft (bombers won't be as useful over home soil). If MAD is in play, then maintain the ICBM and nuclear bomber forces. UAVs can also be utilized for border patrols. Maintain comsat and nudet satellite capabilities. Cyber security of civilian systems can fall under DHS, but defense of DoD systems should stlil fall under (what is it now, Cyber Command?).

Realistically: Politicians gonna...er...politic? This means foreign excursions, so global projection (bombers and cargo) will continue to be a factor. IOW, maintain course.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey April 02, 2014 1:46 PM  

US sanctions in 1, 2, 3...

Anonymous Philalethes April 02, 2014 1:47 PM  

I want a perspective from outside the box.

Why are you in a box?

Anonymous Alexander April 02, 2014 1:49 PM  

Realistically, bombers will be *very* useful over home soil...

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 02, 2014 1:53 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 02, 2014 1:54 PM  

Is carpet bombing NYC and DC an option?

Kind of a waste of perfectly good bombs, if you ask me, chasing good money after bad.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 02, 2014 1:54 PM  

An interesting problem. One I've been noodling for a book. Forget Red State, Blue State. Look at how the elections have broken down by county. Accept for the north east and the west coast, Liberals appear to have enclaved in cities. They have bad interior lines with each other, not much in the way of raw material and very little farmland. They would however control most of major ports and the financial sector (what little there would be left of it.) They'd control half the population but it would not be the half that joins the military.

Anonymous Krul April 02, 2014 1:55 PM  

Just to be clear, I'm asking for your perspective on the AF as a service. Not personal advice.

Waterboy, we can't affect the civ leadership, but we've got to work within their parameters.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 1:55 PM  

Does anybody else believe that it's time for a divorce? The leftists can have their states and go their way, traditionalists can go another. Why is this a bad idea?

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 1:59 PM  

" It is only a matter of time before the economic contraction and increasing social turmoil lead to similar political developments in the USA, especially as the Obama administration and the Congress exhibit increasing political tone-deafness."

How much time?

I was in Texas a few weeks ago and talking to a small group of VERY disgruntled, Right Wing, conservative, anti-government Texans. I asked about a secessionist movement. To a man they all laughed at the idea and recognized that it wasn't an option. to quote one friend who was there:

"Listen, I know I'm way to the right of most people in this country, but the yahoos call for secession don't know what they are doing, don't know my Texans and make the rest of us look like fools"

Another way of putting it is: America isn't Europe and the Venetians aren't Texans.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 02, 2014 1:59 PM  

Depends on the success of the invaders. On a small scale, cruise missiles and attack aircraft can hit ground targets like buildings and vehicles, too. And don't forget you still have the Army and Marine armored, artillery, and attack helicopters, and the Navy to take out the ships.

On a larger scale, like they've taken over an entire city, bombers might become more useful due to capacity...but as that goes up, so do civilian casualties from collateral damage. But this eventuality does not seem likely enough to maintain the bomber force at its current levels. A much-scaled back force would be sufficient, it seems to me.

Anonymous hardyharhar April 02, 2014 2:02 PM  

Maybe the Italian government should do something nice for the Venetians, like giving them the amenities of a modern first world city such as an enclosed underground sewer system and paved roads. That way they'll know their government is working for them. public works that's the ticket.

Anonymous Salt April 02, 2014 2:04 PM  

Given the World as a whole, how can anyone not get a perverse sense of pleasure at it all.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 02, 2014 2:06 PM  

Krul: "Waterboy, we can't affect the civ leadership, but we've got to work within their parameters."

Then the realistic choice it is. Congress holds the pursestrings, and even determine how many of which planes to buy or not to buy. Strategy and planning take a back seat to politics and partisanship, so what does it matter what the generals and the airmen think?

Sorry, but that's too big a rabbit hole and off-topic to go into further. I'll end here.

Anonymous David April 02, 2014 2:07 PM  

I think the difference between the USA and Europe is that Europeans who want to secede dislike their government while simultaneous preferring or identifying with their more local regional culture which has a distinct identity. In the USA I don't see as much loyalty to state or local region. Americans have always moved for better opportunities.

So I don't see the USA breaking up into autonomous states through secession. But I do see the federal government losing power and a great decentralization of power into state and country governments in the future.

Anonymous Noah B. April 02, 2014 2:13 PM  

Sorry about your tank, dude.

Blogger Crowhill April 02, 2014 2:16 PM  

So far the secessionist movements in the U.S. seem to be within states. There's a movement in conservative western Maryland to break with the rest of Maryland; a movement in conservative northern Colorado to break with the rest of Colorado; and a movement to split California into five states.

I haven't seen much about seceding from the United States, but I won't be surprised when it happens.

Anonymous Josh April 02, 2014 2:21 PM  

There was a lot of red state secession talk on talk radio the weeks after the 2012 election.

OpenID cailcorishev April 02, 2014 2:25 PM  

The leftists can have their states and go their way, traditionalists can go another.

The problem with that is that neither side really has any states. The leftists have the cities and the traditionalists have the country. As someone mentioned up-thread, the by-county voting maps make that clear. While it's true that the average farmer in Iowa leans more to the left than the average farmer in Georgia, they have far more in common with each other than the average teacher working at a school in downtown Des Moines or Atlanta.

So there's no nice, easy way to split things up on state lines without millions of people moving both directions. Even if the South breaks away the way some fantasize and does whatever it decides to do with its urban leftists and dependents, that still leaves the rest of the country with the same problem of trying to figure out how to separate a bunch of urban islands of leftism from the areas surrounding them.

If things get bad enough for secession to get real, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes much further and we see states breaking up, even individual counties or towns declaring themselves to be independent. I mean, if other parts of the country start doing it, it won't take long for downstate Illinois to decide it's put up with Chicago long enough, for instance.

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma April 02, 2014 2:25 PM  

Sorry, most Americans are still too fat and sleepy to bother with anything as radical as secession.

Give it a few more decades, perhaps?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 02, 2014 2:25 PM  

There are movements in Maryland, Colorado, and California already.

In those cases, they are conservative or libertarian groups who are fed up with being a part of a state which routinely disenfranchises their value system in favor of an entirely different culture. Expect more of those kind of movements to gain steam as more and more people withdraw not only their consent, but wallets from the governments they live under. It is only a matter of time before states themselves start breaking away from the Federal government.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 2:32 PM  

Jack, funny thing you mention TX. It sounds like the group you spoke with is ready to accept 3rd class citizenship already. Whites will be a minority in TX in a few years and there won't be any affirmative action plans for Whitey. Why is succession such a crazy idea? It can be done peacefully.

Anonymous Orville April 02, 2014 2:35 PM  

I want a perspective from outside the box. What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?

Full throttle and stick forward.

Anonymous Alexander April 02, 2014 2:37 PM  

Minimal bloodshed won't be possible in dividing America. Red states - even discounting the the urban/rural split - more or less control the entire Mississippi/Ohio/Missouri river system, which is the lifeblood of the continent. BlueSA could not form a cohesive nation out of New England/MidAtlantic, chunks of the Old Northwest, and the Pacific Coast.

They will, all joking about effeminacy aside, kill in droves before any such division is seriously tabled.

Europeans cannot imagine a single entity controlling such a vast and critical network - eleven countries share the Danube, six on the Rhine. Furthermore, separatists are regional and even if large, do not so fatally divide the rump state: Scotland won't divide London from Manchester, Venice won't separate Rome from Milan.

So I'm betting that the Euros accept secession when forced integration becomes unbearable. In America, we'll stay together for a good bit beyond that point...

Anonymous Porky April 02, 2014 2:41 PM  

What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?

SPEND MOAR TAX MONEY!!!! MOAR $15000 TOILET SEATS!!!!!!!

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 2:41 PM  

"Jack, funny thing you mention TX. It sounds like the group you spoke with is ready to accept 3rd class citizenship already. Whites will be a minority in TX in a few years and there won't be any affirmative action plans for Whitey. Why is succession such a crazy idea? It can be done peacefully.

The group I spoke with thought it a crazy idea for a couple of reasons 1) the people they saw trying to create a movement were, in their minds, pretty whacked out emotionally and politically and 2) because they saw no constitutional or legal way of actually seceding, meaning to actually do it you'd probably have to fight the Feds. And they knew that wasn't going to happen.

Also what makes you think that being a minority ethnic group makes you a third class citizen?? This makes no sense.

Anonymous Sensei April 02, 2014 2:42 PM  

The solution to the liberal-city/conservative-countryside issue is simple: City-states, defined as political entities separate from the larger state in which they only happen to be geographically situated. They can then suffer the consequences of their own worldview and resulting legislation, and when they flee that failure instead bringing down another whole state with their contaminated minds and voting habits they'd just find another city.

Anonymous SlackAttack April 02, 2014 2:42 PM  

@scott x

I live in the DFW and I am starting to see people who are not typically political wake up, but we are a far ways from secession. I hope Hillary wins, I think that would bet the straw to break the camels back.

If it did happen, how would it be done peacefully?

Anonymous Alexander April 02, 2014 2:48 PM  

Jack - it's not being the ethnic minority per se - it's being the ethnic minority when the majority is openly advancing its own tribal interests, views your group as a piggy bank to do so, and also like to use you as the cause of all woes when its time for agitprop.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 2:57 PM  

Jack asked, "Also what makes you think that being a minority ethnic group makes you a third class citizen?? This makes no sense."

Seriously? Can you name a single time in all of human history in which the dominant ethnic group became the subservient group without the new dominant group oppressing them brutally or the new oppressed rebelling against their new oppressors? Take a stroll around Rhodesia or South Africa for modern day examples. I realize that neither of those are TX, but it is not unimaginable to see taxes skyrocket and overbearing affirmative action\quota systems put in place for the benefit of the new masters and to the detriment of the old. I also see violence against gringo being swept under the rug, civil rights legislated away, etc (on this point don't expect relief form the SC...since there will never be another conservative president so it will be packed with Leftists). Just because it never happened in the US before doesn't mean it can never happen.

We do have better technology now then in any time in human history but that doesn't mean that current people are any smarter or of a significant different nature that their predecessors.

Anonymous Athor Pel April 02, 2014 3:02 PM  

I'd expect some parts of the country to just fall off of the government radar because they won't have enough money or manpower to deal with it. In fact it will figuratively fall off the map because the return on investment won't make it worthwhile to deal with, too low a population density, too few taxes to collect, not enough wealth generating industry.

That's the way it happened with Rome and some of its outlying provinces. One day the administration was active and the next Rome recalls the legions guarding the place, with those legions go many Roman administrators. Then the locals are left on their own, completely on their own.

What was the rest of the failing Roman empire like?

Imagine the area you live in having less food show up at the grocery store, a lot less, not because your area is poor or the harvest was bad but because the food shipments are getting highjacked. That's just one commodity, the highjackings affect all of them. It gets so bad that insurance companies start refusing to cover shipments through your county unless they have armed guards. This goes on for years without the federal or state governments doing anything quantifiable to fix the situation.

Would that make you reconsider your government allegiance?

Anonymous Shibes Meadow April 02, 2014 3:02 PM  

If whites in South Africa won't fight for their lives, whites in America certainly won't.

Blogger ajw308 April 02, 2014 3:03 PM  

Krul,
In light of recent events, I can see civilian airlines automating before the military and in doing so, set the standard.

Right now one of the biggest factors keeping UAV's down is the FAA regs and coming up with a "see and avoid" mechanism that is reliable.

Anonymous Daniel April 02, 2014 3:03 PM  

Does anybody else believe that it's time for a divorce? The leftists can have their states and go their way, traditionalists can go another. Why is this a bad idea?

That would be like me asking my tapeworm to respect a restraining order, my friend. Parasites have no concept of legal separation, much less a will to pursue one.

You may as well ask them to commit suicide.

Anonymous scoobius dubious April 02, 2014 3:06 PM  

If you asked me to come up with a peaceful, reasonable, practical, logical, desirable plan for secession, I could probably get it to you within a week. It isn't really that hard if you think about it some. The problem is, America has a history of always doing everything in the stupidest, most violent way imaginable. (I mean, a civil war just to end slavery? Everybody else managed to end it pretty easily, except for Haiti.) So while long term I think it's inevitable, I'm not optimistic about it being done right. Some knuckleheads will find a way to turn a perfectly organic process into a catastrophe.

Anonymous automatthew April 02, 2014 3:10 PM  

Another way of putting it is: America isn't Europe and the Venetians aren't Texans.

Texans don't need to secede. At some point we'll just stop paying attention to the feds and start doing whatever we see fit.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 3:11 PM  

My hope is that the breakup can happen with a minimum of violence. Leftists Utopians despise Traditionalists almost as much as we loathe them. Wouldn't they welcome the opportunity to rid themselves of the racist, hillbilly, cousin-humping, inbred, mouth-breathers that block much of their agenda? In other words, a country with no Whitey.

We know Leftists have a cause-effect problem (Thanks John Wright). Hopefully they won't realize that Whitey pays all the bills until after the country is partitioned.

Blogger Shibes Meadow April 02, 2014 3:13 PM  

Slack attack: would you mind dropping me a private email? Bruce at brucelewis dot com. Thanks.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 02, 2014 3:14 PM  

"America isn't Europe and the Venetians aren't Texans."

True, but I don't think this means what you think it means.

"America has a history of always doing everything in the stupidest, most violent way imaginable."

This.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 02, 2014 3:15 PM  

"At some point we'll just stop paying attention to the feds and start doing whatever we see fit."

Lot's of dem revenueers will disappear down CopperHead Road......and we didn't see nufin'.....heh....

Blogger Rseven Rocket April 02, 2014 3:16 PM  

Secessionists have always been with us. We just need a bit more debt to glue us all back together into one big happy family.

Debt isn't going to glue us together. It'll do the opposite.

Sending IOUs to the Legions is a good way for a centralized government to get dissolved and it's territory partitioned.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 02, 2014 3:20 PM  

"America isn't Europe and the Venetians aren't Texans."

True, but this doesn't mean what you think it means.

"The problem is, America has a history of always doing everything in the stupidest, most violent way imaginable. "

This.

Anonymous Daniel April 02, 2014 3:24 PM  

Debt isn't going to glue us together. It'll do the opposite.

I was not serious.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 3:26 PM  

"Seriously? Can you name a single time in all of human history in which the dominant ethnic group became the subservient group without the new dominant group oppressing them brutally or the new oppressed rebelling against their new oppressors? "

Scott:
Off the top of my head, no, I can't think of one.

However, what I'm wondering is this: Would you take part in brutally oppressing a former majority group if you belonged to an group that all of a sudden went from minority status to majority status?

Blogger Sherwood family April 02, 2014 3:28 PM  

I agree that a peaceful secession would, in some ways, be the preferred solution. Especially compared to being forced to accept the worst policy prescriptions of the other side. However (and this is important point) no serious secession movement will come into being in the United States until things become dire.

At that point, all hope for peaceful secession ends and mutual fears of the other side somehow gaining the upper hand would drive events toward bloodshed on a scale I am not sure I can imagine. Moderation of any kind would be jettisoned in favor of reprisals to exact revenge on the other side.

That becomes untenable very quickly and individuals who do not want to be wiped out have to flee toward respective power centers where they become subject to government/regime intrusions into their lives and policies that make their original concerns pale by comparison.

Therefore, at this juncture, I'd rather support a Caesar than a civil war. Unfortunately, we are likely to enjoy the worst of both ills before too many years, in my humble opinion.

Anonymous Josh April 02, 2014 3:36 PM  

Are there any historical examples where a Caesar did not lead to a civil war, or vice versa?

Anonymous Don April 02, 2014 3:39 PM  

I live in a small town. We have a DHS center larger than the county jail. They have dozens of vehicles. There is a very large steel fence surrounding it. And they just bought billions of rounds of ammo. If I living in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere have this what else is there out there and why do they need it?

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 3:42 PM  

I also see violence against gringo being swept under the rug

Yeah, that's already happening.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 3:45 PM  

Jack asked, :However, what I'm wondering is this: Would you take part in brutally oppressing a former majority group if you belonged to an group that all of a sudden went from minority status to majority status?"

Jack, I don't think every single hispanic or even a majority are gleefully rubbing their hands together mumbling "today we get gringo". However, I do believe that the vast majority would have no problems taking a higher paying job that used to belong to a white man who had been quota'ed out. Nor do I believe that a hispanic would hesitate to lobby the new government for a slab of cash taxed\stolen from Whitey. I also believe that the vast majority of hispanics would not even raise an eyebrow if some gringo woman was raped and murdered by a brown gang and the police choose not to investigate. On top of that we already have groups such as La Raza spreading the lie that everything in the southwest should belong to hispanics because the US stole the region from Mexico. There will be many ways for them to participate in the brutal oppression without personally getting their hands dirty.

Anonymous FP April 02, 2014 3:45 PM  

"If whites in South Africa won't fight for their lives, whites in America certainly won't."

Different time and a different culture. Whites in America have the benefit of seeing what happened to South Africa and Rhodesia. On top of that, odds are Americans won't have the boot of western PC politics on their neck like those in SA/Rhodesia did.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 02, 2014 3:45 PM  

Secession can be peaceful.

It will not be in the United States. The Leftists are so deranged that they will order a war to be fought to preserve the Union and purge this nation of the racist, homophobic, sexist dipshits.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 3:51 PM  

Not if they want to be rid of us as badly as we want to be rid of them.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 02, 2014 3:53 PM  

Does anybody else believe that it's time for a divorce? The leftists can have their states and go their way, traditionalists can go another. Why is this a bad idea?

No, the leftists have the nice parts. Seriously, retake California and ship all the liberals to Texas. Or Haiti. California is too nice for those people. And as Sailor says, someone will take it from them eventually anyway. Mexico wasn't able to hold onto it the first time, they wouldn't a second time either. And the current crop of liberal yoga nuts are losing to the Mexicans already, so they won't keep it.

Anonymous FP April 02, 2014 3:55 PM  

"Cataline Sergius April 02, 2014 1:54 PM

An interesting problem. One I've been noodling for a book. Forget Red State, Blue State. Look at how the elections have broken down by county. Accept for the north east and the west coast, Liberals appear to have enclaved in cities."

I'd look closer at the counties even in the NE and West coast. In those places the split and anger can be even stronger. In the case of WA and OR, you'd likely have fights over the liberal cities for coastal access in the long term. Its been amusing watching many flee from the madness that is Portland city proper in the last ten years and then those folks getting fed up with paying for Portland's boondoggles through their "regional" taxes. Lots more purple showing up in those previously blue areas.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 3:57 PM  

Scott X:

So does your answer mean that you personally would not take part in brutally oppressing a former majority group if you belonged to an group that all of a sudden went from minority status to majority status?

Or would you?

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 3:58 PM  

Jack Amok, since American Leftists are gutless cowards and only willing to fight to the last drop of somebody else's blood, retaking the nice climate areas wouldn't be much of a problem.

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 3:59 PM  

So does your answer mean that you personally would not take part in brutally oppressing a former majority group if you belonged to an group that all of a sudden went from minority status to majority status?

Or would you?


If you're not willing to read history, at least read Dune. How on earth does one man's personal answer have anything to do with history repeating itself?

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 4:03 PM  

"If you're not willing to read history, at least read Dune. How on earth does one man's personal answer have anything to do with history repeating itself?"

I just wondering what Scott's motivations are for not being someone who would happily brutalize a former majority, or vice versa.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 4:04 PM  

Jack, what I personally would do is nothing but an anecdote in regard to my argument, it has nothing to do with its' validity or invalidity.

Also, what are the circumstances of the power shift? Who is up and who is down? Does the newly diminished have dirty hands or do those belonging to the new dominant? Define brutalize? Are non-brutal options available, etc.

If you want my personal opinion...I loved the H A Covington novels.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 4:05 PM  

"Jack Amok, since American Leftists are gutless cowards and only willing to fight to the last drop of somebody else's blood, retaking the nice climate areas wouldn't be much of a problem."

It's very much akin to the fact that putting down a rebellion in Texas or the South would be pretty darned easy considering that we know that southerners and Texas are remarkably stupid and likely to shoot themselves or their brethren rather than the liberating force coming right at them.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 4:08 PM  

"Jack, what I personally would do is nothing but an anecdote in regard to my argument, it has nothing to do with its' validity or invalidity."

I know that. I'm just curious how you would react. You appear to be very confident in knowing how others would react, I'm guessing you are even more confident in your knowledge of how you would react personally. So, would it be to support the brutal oppression of the former minority or oppose it?

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 4:08 PM  

It's very much akin to the fact that putting down a rebellion in Texas or the South would be pretty darned easy considering that we know that southerners and Texas are remarkably stupid and likely to shoot themselves or their brethren rather than the liberating force coming right at them.

LOL, troll.

Anonymous AlteredFate April 02, 2014 4:15 PM  

"Another way of putting it is: America isn't Europe and the Venetians aren't Texans."

Wow, I never new Texas had so many special snowflakes. I'm sure all of your state will come out completely unscathed in the coming collapse because unlike the rest of the west, human nature and the laws of economics doesn't apply in a Texas .

Everything is bigger in Texas except brains and balls it would seem.

Anonymous Giraffe April 02, 2014 4:16 PM  

It is funny how the people that don't know anything about guns and are afraid of them are telling those of us who own them and use them all the time how incompetent we are with them.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 4:20 PM  

"LOL, troll."

But you didn't think this indicated a troll: "since American Leftists are gutless cowards and only willing to fight to the last drop of somebody else's blood, retaking the nice climate areas wouldn't be much of a problem."

Leading once again to the impossible to ignore conclusion that whenever anyone shouts, "TROLL!!', what they mean is "I disagree with you".

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 02, 2014 4:20 PM  

Great news, good luck to the secessionists.

Anonymous Rollory April 02, 2014 4:23 PM  

"I want a perspective from outside the box. What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?"

Become the United States Space Force. Build Orion-class nuclear pulse propulsion craft, and establish bases on Europa.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 4:23 PM  

Jack, please try to stay on topic here. We are debating the viability and probability of some form of TX succession, not what Scott X would do in such a scenario. If it will make you stop trying to redirect the discussion then go right ahead and think me as the worlds biggest raciss, I binge on flayed children for breakfast. Lunch is roast orphan with a tangy sauce made out of the dreams of minorities. I am the bad trip version of every Leftists hate fantasy, and that's when I'm hung over and not trying very hard. Ask me what's for dinner.

Does that make any difference as to the validity of my argument? Nope, not a bit.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 4:45 PM  

Scott, I'm just wondering if you throw yourself into the "brutally oppressive" category you assign most Hispanics to. It's not about racism.

As for secession, it's a moot topic. There is no legal vehicsl for it, Texas could not defend itself from internal and external opponents of secession and there is no serious movement for secession in Texas.

Anonymous Alexander April 02, 2014 4:51 PM  

You are correct about the second point - at the current time, Texas could not defend itself.

The first though - when is there ever a legal mechanism for secession? The fact that the United States exists as a sovereign nation and that Texas once did is proof enough that the legal mechanism is irrelevant: you can either fight or you can't, that your action is illegal is moot.

Blogger mmaier2112 April 02, 2014 4:56 PM  

Yankee-born with Copperhead leanings here.

And I had a horrific thought the other day:

I wouldn't want to live or be anywhere near the Mississippi River basin if a Southron succession appears as though it's going to win.

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 4:57 PM  

Jack, you're a troll because you think some of the most gun-knowledgeable folks in the world will be the most likely to commit friendly fire. You're an idiot.

Blogger SCSSinc1 April 02, 2014 5:01 PM  

The question we should be asking is whether US troops would fire on their fellow Americans. I believe the currently politicalized officer corps would not hesitate. For the most part the rank and file would not.

Blogger James Dixon April 02, 2014 5:03 PM  

> As for secession, it's a moot topic.

And yet per our host, it's the topic of this thread. So what are you talking about again?

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 5:05 PM  

"Jack, you're a troll because you think some of the most gun-knowledgeable folks in the world will be the most likely to commit friendly fire. You're an idiot."

Yet, "retaking the nice climate areas wouldn't be much of a problem" stands a sage counsel.

You've earned the status of being ignored for your stupidity.

Anonymous cheddarman April 02, 2014 5:05 PM  

all of you statists forget that the federal government is living on borrowed time and an overplayed hand.

The U.S. dollar is loosing its world reserve currency status.

When the game is up with the dollar, there will be no money to pay the military and other assorted tax feeders.

The difference between us and Rome is that Caesar could pay the soldiers with gold or silver coins. no one

will want paper dollars, except to wipe their arses

sincerely

cheddarman

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 5:06 PM  

I doubt that secessionists are terribly concerned with what's legal regarding the former mother country.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 5:06 PM  

"And yet per our host, it's the topic of this thread. So what are you talking about again?"

The question of the possibility of secession in the U.S. It's not going to happen. No chance. No. Making the discussion moot.

Now where were we?? Oh yes, that HUGE uproar for secession in Texas.... Quick, Sally to her post!

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 5:09 PM  

"I doubt that secessionists are terribly concerned with what's legal regarding the former mother country."

From what I read, there is a significant number among the small band of Texas secessionists that think it is legal: http://texnat.org/index.php/intro-to-texas-independence/answers-about-independence

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 5:11 PM  

Stop being a crybaby because I chose your inane statements to criticize, Jack.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 02, 2014 5:17 PM  

you know ...

i really don't think there's any lower limit to Obama's stupid.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04/nasa-must-immediately-cease-all-contact-with-russia/

i can't wait til Russia sends up the next rocket and refuses to allow our astronaut to board from the ISS.


i see my comment on Air Force objectives got eaten ...

OpenID cailcorishev April 02, 2014 5:26 PM  

Has NASA even sent any gay astronauts into space? How dare they forbid gays from exploring the rest of the universe!

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 5:27 PM  

Jack, I agree that TX won't rebel tomorrow but a succession can take many forms. The most likely scenario, especially for TX, IMHO, would be a guerilla movement comprised of oppressed whites. The primary opponent would not be blacks\Hispanics. It would be a civil war among whites with blacks\Hispanics being used as muscle\cannon fodder by their Leftist masters. As with any guerilla war the guerillas don't intend to defeat the enemy in a military sense. The war continues until the accountants, not the generals, on the federal side surrender. Based on the deteriorating economic situation the US finds itself in this scenario as well as a rebel victory becomes more and more likely. H A Covington wrote the handbook for such an insurrection. Great read.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 02, 2014 5:32 PM  

"When the game is up with the dollar, there will be no money to pay the military and other assorted tax feeders."

Yes, this.

Currently any meaningful effort toward succession is very unlikely, let alone much success with it. But things are already headed in a direction which could quickly change circumstances.

If Zeta's or subservient Crips'n'Bloods start stirring up enough shit and the current Texas or US gov'ts don't get it under control quick enough, our current well armed, relatively high % of combat vets and their ilk amongst the population will take things into their own violent hands if necessary.

Civil war or succession won't likely start by a bunch of yahoo's marching out in line onto the open battlefield against the military. It is more likely to happen when that military is distracted or crippled by other means.

Anonymous Dan in Tx April 02, 2014 5:33 PM  

Just wondering out loud how many of the "Secession cannot happen in the US" crowd were also of the mind that the USSR could not break apart practically overnight back in the 90's. Since, you know, it hasn't happened yet = it can never happen.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 5:44 PM  

"Just wondering out loud how many of the "Secession cannot happen in the US" crowd were also of the mind that the USSR could not break apart practically overnight back in the 90's"

Because they are the same!!

I wonder how many of the "secession could happen crowd" are the same ones who were the driving the "pigs could fly one day" movement.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 02, 2014 5:46 PM  

Yet, "retaking the nice climate areas wouldn't be much of a problem" stands a sage counsel.

Seriously, it won't be much trouble. The people currently living in and running California could not defend themselves against a military invasion. If the rest of the US wasn't there to defend them, they'd be invaded by someone pretty soon. It's a very nice place. Nice climate, tremendous natural resources, great farming, timber, minerals, good ports...

It really is the bellwether for the country. The r/K prosperity cycle Vox mentioned earlier is just a little farther ahead in CA. Prosperity drew in the leeches and anesthetized too many natives.

Secession won't be clean and easy. Hell, the last attempt was pretty messy, and the next one will be worse because ideology isn't as geographically separate now. And one of the problems with secession is what sort of neighbor you will have afterwards. Leaving CA to the liberals means you'll likely have someone else as your neighbors sooner or later, someone who might be serious trouble.

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 5:51 PM  

Just wondering out loud how many of the "Secession cannot happen in the US" crowd

Yes, secession has already happened twice on this continent in the last 250 years. It's like a tradition. Not that I really welcome it.

Anonymous AlteredFate April 02, 2014 6:02 PM  

Jack April 02, 2014 1:59 PM - "I asked about a secessionist movement. To a man they all laughed at the idea and recognized that it wasn't an option."

Jack April 02, 2014 5:09 PM - "From what I read, there is a significant number among the small band of Texas secessionists that think it is legal..."

So they don't think it is an option but they do think it's legal? Either a hell of a lot changed in 3 hours and 10 minutes, or Jack is full of shit. I'm leaning toward the latter.

My apologies to any real Texans for my previous comment.

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 6:03 PM  

I wonder how many of the "secession could happen crowd" are the same ones who were the driving the "pigs could fly one day" movement.

Still betraying that stunning lack of historical understanding. First, "nope, can't think of any time a minority came to oppress the once-majority". Now, "secession can't happen" in a country where it's been attempted twice. I do think the latter unlikely though, but not in the realm of flying pigs, considering historical precedent.

Anonymous Giraffe April 02, 2014 6:04 PM  

As for secession, it's a moot topic. There is no legal vehicsl for it,

How is it that I am not a subject of England given that there was no legal vehicsl for secession?

Anonymous cheddarman April 02, 2014 6:05 PM  

Hell, the last attempt was pretty messy, and the next one will be worse because ideology isn't as geographically separate now. - Jack amok

Jack, i respectfully disagree. The federal government under Lincoln had a lot of financial resources to draw on when it launched its war of aggression against the Southern States. This time, it will be broke, and fragmented by divisions along ethnic and cultural lines, trying to cobble together an alliance of leftists, blacks, browns and others against white secessionists. How will it pay soldiers, and buy beans and bullets? We don't even know how much gold is left in the U.S., it could have already been looted.

OpenID cailcorishev April 02, 2014 6:10 PM  

I'm convinced the US is going to break up somehow, and probably in my lifetime. I just don't see it happening as simply as north/south or states seceding with their borders intact. In the case of the USSR, those were nations that had existed before being absorbed, and it hadn't even been that long ago. They had an identity as a people to fall back on.

In the US, the original colonies may have something like that, and Texas does. But most states don't. Most were carved out as territories for the purpose of becoming states of the Union, so if their inhabitants decide they don't want to belong to the Union anymore, why would they care about keeping the state together?

The people of Iowa, for instance, have no tradition of fighting with the people of Missouri and Illinois, or defending any of their borders. The only reason a farmer near the southern border of Iowa pays any allegiance to Des Moines is that that's where the people live who go off to D.C. to fight over the spoils. Take away the spoils, and he's more likely to band together with farmers across the border in Missouri who look and live and talk just like him.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 6:13 PM  

"So they don't think it is an option but they do think it's legal? Either a hell of a lot changed in 3 hours and 10 minutes, or Jack is full of shit. I'm leaning toward the latter."

You need to read a little closer. Those that know texas know there will be no serious secession movement and that the act itself has no legal or constitutional basis. Those in the state trying to create a movement think there might be a legal way, but are wishy washy about. You can go the link provided to learn more. That's why it is provided.

Anonymous Jack April 02, 2014 6:17 PM  

"This time, it will be broke, and fragmented by divisions along ethnic and cultural lines"

You folks keep thinking this race war is going to happen. But to this point there is absolutely no sign of it. In fact there are more signs that white folks will happily live in a multicultural land and have no problem with gay marriage or a declining sectarian population than this sign of some sort of race war coming.

Anonymous Noah B. April 02, 2014 6:23 PM  

"There is no legal vehicsl for it.."

Until recently, there was no legal vehicle for Crimean secession. Until there was.

"Texas could not defend itself from internal and external opponents of secession and there is no serious movement for secession in Texas."

Well -- we do have what I believe is the largest plutonium stockpile on the planet. So there's that.

Anonymous Noah B. April 02, 2014 6:27 PM  

But I agree with you Jack -- the idea of Texas seceding seems, at least at this particular time, extremely nonsensical. It seems to me that we have no major ideological differences with most of the South and Rocky Mountain states, with Colorado being the turd in the punchbowl.

Blogger Nate April 02, 2014 6:30 PM  

Roll Tide.

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 6:33 PM  

But I agree with you Jack -- the idea of Texas seceding seems, at least at this particular time, extremely nonsensical.

Same here, I know a lot of these people. They'd be happy if we were our own country, but they know it'd be a big hurdle.

Blogger Outlaw X April 02, 2014 6:41 PM  

Breaking,

Another Fort Hood shooting, just now.

Anonymous Dan in Tx April 02, 2014 6:46 PM  

Exactly what holds the U.S. together? There is nil culturally speaking that makes the U.S. a nation. To put it bluntly, Texans* have a hell of a lot more in common culturally with Meskins than we do with yankee Jews.

*By Texans, I mean REAL Texans, not California imports. I swear, they're patrolling the wrong border.

Anonymous Noah B. April 02, 2014 6:51 PM  

Heckuva job, Eric.

Blogger Outlaw X April 02, 2014 6:54 PM  

Dan

Texans don' talk much about such things, because they don't need to.

They are saying white male in camo on local news in FT Hood by the way possible another shooter everything locked down. Obama informed, I smell stink already.

Anonymous Discard April 02, 2014 6:55 PM  

Civil war will look more like really high crime rates than Gettysburg. Just as Whites flee Blackening cities and Blacks flee Mexican gangs, Unitarians will flee towns where the police are unable to figure out who burned their church. Whites will be ever more strongly drawn to towns where car thieves and burglars are shot in the back, and district attorneys write it off as self defense.

While I agree that most people today don't have strong state identities, the states still have many of the attributes of independence nation. They have legislatures, courts, emergency services, transportation and communication networks, subordinate governments to deal with local issues, and armed forces. As Washington's economic power fades, the state governments are well positioned to take over.

I think it would be a tragic waste of an opportunity were there to be a nationwide reset, and the useful people allowed the parasites to remain on the continent. It's they who chose to invade the normal places and impose their ways on us. No group of Kansas rednecks sued New York City because they didn't allow prayer in school or forbid abortion. They are parasites and will never let us go, so we will have to render them harmless.

The glue holding this country together is money. No money, no glue.

Lastly, people are buying an awful lot of guns these days. I'd say they are anticipating a need to use them.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 02, 2014 6:56 PM  

"You folks keep thinking this race war is going to happen"

Mobs of yutes from particular shades of "culture" have already started it. The areas where this is happening has a populace significantly disinclined to react the way others will when it spreads.

Anonymous Noah B. April 02, 2014 6:57 PM  

Serial killers and mass shooters are always white men until proven otherwise, Outlaw.

Anonymous Jolly Yon April 02, 2014 7:10 PM  

Awake in the Night Lands? "We will release the English ebook later this month [March]"

???

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 7:12 PM  

Jack, thanks for being a good sport.

At the risk of going OT, can you name a single multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-culti political entity in say, the last 2000 years that was a fully functioning society and was not:

1. Dominated by one ethnic group with other groups in subservient positions
2. Not held together by immediate and overwhelming threat of force.
3. Not in steep decline resulting in the dissolution of the state.

A state in decline can be defined as:
1. extremely low birth rate - failing civilizations do not plan for a future
2. economic displacement - a hallmark of doomed civilizations is economic failure.
3. cultural coarsening - previously high moral standards degenerating into immediate gratification

good luck

Anonymous Jack Amok April 02, 2014 7:25 PM  

Chedderman, why do you think the Federal Government will be the gating factor next time?

For my part, I'm assuming it will be a non-factor, that the break-up won't actually start until FedGov is broke and destitute. You ignored my part about ideology not being geographically separate this time. That's where the mess will come from. States aren't consistent polities any more. Clans aren't even geographically united in this country.

And, considering geography, the political geography at the moment is not divided along defensible boundaries. The Polish people have trouble remaining independent because they have no boundaries. Same with the Ukes, as everyone is being reminded. The Confederacy couldn't defend it's borders 150 years ago either. Doesn't matter whether there's a Union army or not, there will be somebody's army to worry about.

Things might start as succession, but I expect they'll end as revolution.

Anonymous CLK April 02, 2014 7:35 PM  

I think the most you can hope for a shift in balance between States and Federal control ... as for any state leaving the US .. not even Texas... cant happen.. too much shared resources.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 02, 2014 7:38 PM  

The other thing to consider is that the Blue parts of the country are being propped up by D.C. They're all broke, but the cities are papering it over courtesy of subsidies (often behind the scenes via the banking system) handed out by D.C. When the Feds (and the Fed, haha), are finally no longer able to keep treading air and gravity takes it's toll, the parts of the country that the Red parts would secede from will collapse along with D.C.

The Blue economy is based on shuffling paper, suing each other, and taxing the crap out of everybody who does anything productive. They don't make anything. There's no basis for a society within their boundaries. They're parasites - without D.C. to prop them up, they will by necessity attempt to extract resources from the Red areas around them. If they fail, they will collapse and be replaced by some other foe. Or else be re-occupied by the rest of us.

Blogger James Dixon April 02, 2014 7:40 PM  

> You folks keep thinking this race war is going to happen.

It wasn't a race war last time. it won't be next time either. Regardless, no country lasts forever, and the US is well past it's due date.

> Roll Tide.

I don't even expect the WVU-Alabama game to have a listed spread. They'll be loaded again and even if we're significantly better than last year it won't be a contest. I'd love to be optimistic, but so far Holgorsen's given me no reason for it. I've taken to calling him Dana "Cignetti" Holgorsen.

Anonymous Daniel April 02, 2014 7:47 PM  

as for any state leaving the US .. not even Texas... cant happen.. too much shared resources.

This is silly. Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland share resources, after all. Ukraine and Russia share resources. Heck, Taiwan and China share resources.

A preponderance of shared resources is not what binds member regions together. They can help...or they can hinder...voluntary union.

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 02, 2014 7:50 PM  

I see people openly discussing City-States now. I remember I mentioned that during my renaissance analogy. And the NSA revelations are looking more and more everyday like the Mouths of Truth in Italy.


The laughed at poor Idle, and would not let Idle join in any of the reindeer games.
You scoffed, Vox You scoffed.

Now, the healing may begin.

Blogger Scott X April 02, 2014 8:08 PM  

James, where have you been for the last 40 years. The race war has already begun and Whitey is losing.

Anonymous automatthew April 02, 2014 8:16 PM  

"By Texans, I mean REAL Texans, not California imports"

The first thing we do, let's kill all the Pepperdine graduates.

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 02, 2014 8:20 PM  

The Real Texans of course are referred to as Texians. The rest are knock-offs.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia April 02, 2014 8:41 PM  

Idle,

And alternatively Texican is somewhat good.

I skimmed the comments, who is the moron that thinks Texas doesn't want to seceed.

Myself and the rest of us hillbilly, cousin-humpin', rednecks are ready to go.

I was even convincing some transplants the other day....

And some moron thinks that us rednecks are going to accidentally shoot ourselves?

That is what I love about us Southrons, you always underestimate us.

Country boys can survive.

Anonymous Simon Peter April 02, 2014 9:04 PM  

A preponderance of shared resources is not what binds member regions together

Correct, my brother. It's called "Coercive Force".

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia April 02, 2014 9:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia April 02, 2014 9:05 PM  

And for you those of you that are in the slow crowd that has gathered round these parts, George Bush ain't no Texan.

And Rick Perry is more worried about his hair being presidential than the state of the Republic of Texas.

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 9:12 PM  

Hey I know one decent Pepperdine grad.

Anonymous Idle Liberal April 02, 2014 9:20 PM  

Gorge Bush REALLY IS a REAL Texan.

THE MEDIA SAID SO

Blogger James Dixon April 02, 2014 9:20 PM  

> The race war has already begun and Whitey is losing.

Be that as it may, it has nothing to do with round 2.

Anonymous Boise Youngster April 02, 2014 9:25 PM  

Cali--”I'm convinced the US is going to break up somehow, and probably in my lifetime.”

Yes, Jiminy Cricket is your calling card. Unless there is 50% unemployment rates for several years, vibrants pillaging and plundering suburbs on a continual basis, and the majority of men and women in the armed forces taking up arms and supporting open rebellion, secession is a political dead-end.

Although while American secession is an admittedly absurd proposition, there’s a certain logic, even a sense of humanity, in its essence. We have become accustomed to hard divisions--conservative-liberal, black-white, Roe-Wade, red-blue--that the chasm separating us feels almost ordained, an organic and integral part of the national tradition. But just because spiritual, political, racial and commercial divides have always been with us does not mean the they will continue to define us.

Besides, banksters like Laguna Beach Fogey will most assuredly hatch a plan to keep the United States intact.

Blogger tweell April 02, 2014 9:30 PM  

I recommend Tom Kratman's first book: A State of Disobedience. It may yet come true, and has some interesting points on secession and Texas.

Anonymous Eric Ashley April 02, 2014 9:42 PM  

Fairly sure, Jack didn't mean Southrons would accidentally shoot themselves. He meant boosterish enthusiasm about how easy the cities would be was silly.

The Blue thinks the Red is stupid; the Red thinks the Blue are wimpy. Both are wrong. I see mushroom clouds.

Yet there is hope. The Left is fragile. And Conservatives can rise up. Doom is still a choice

Anonymous Red Skull April 02, 2014 10:31 PM  

Secession will not be legal. The fags in black dresses seen it in the Living Document or their ass whatever came first.
Civil War II will happen with your skin as your uniform. Racist or not, the darkies won't take no light-skinned libtardos!
I cannot wait to see the fabulously gay, transexual die-versity army in action. I imagine it will be the World's Biggest Turkey Shoot! Cannot wait, but SOON...

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 02, 2014 10:39 PM  

Texas has its own navy, power grid, energy resources, and plenty of federal assets that could be readily seized and operated by trained active, reserve and retired military.

Texas has no income tax. If it were to cast off federal membership, it could be a gun-friendly English-speaking nation with billions if not trillions in global capital fleeing even traditional tax havens. Citizens of the Texas republic could renounce federal citizenship and taxes, and the republic could levy tariffs and sales tax to cover revenue requirements. Ideally property tax could be abolished in favor of tariffs and sales tax, and allodial title could return.

A fellow can dream?

Anonymous clk April 02, 2014 10:46 PM  

Dream yes .. smoke loco weed... maybe not. :)

Anonymous Jack Amok April 02, 2014 10:47 PM  

the Red thinks the Blue are wimpy

Not so much wimpy as just plain unproductive. Anti-productive may be better. Their mindset is to get in the way of doing things. This won't be Yankees-vs-Southrons Round 2. Both the North and the South were functional societies and had economies that could stand on their own. The split this time will be parasites vs hosts.

I'm pretty sure the parasites will lose. The question is, what sort of people will the hosts who win be?

Anonymous clk April 02, 2014 10:58 PM  

This is silly. Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland share resources, after all. Ukraine and Russia share resources. Heck, Taiwan and China share resources.

Completely different..

Blogger Marissa April 02, 2014 11:01 PM  

But just because spiritual, political, racial and commercial divides have always been with us does not mean the they will continue to define us.

Someone queue up Kumbaya. Hey I forgive you. Judging by your name you live in a very white, well-functioning and safe city and you haven't done much living yet.

Anonymous Luke April 02, 2014 11:15 PM  

Here is where you can download the book I consider the gold standard on upcoming civil war and partition in the U.S., Thomas Chittum's 1997 "Civil War Two" :

http://pdf-world.net/pdf/107619/Civil-War-Two-by-Thomas-W.-Chittum-(PDF)-pdf.php

Or:

http://www.resist.com/Onlinebooks.html (scroll to second book from bottom of page)

Or, for a site where you have to pay 8 bucks for the download (the above two are free):
http://www.amfirstbooks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=12&products_id=18

Like the movie "Idiocracy", this book can be thought of as a not improbable documentary of the future.

Anonymous paradox April 02, 2014 11:24 PM  

The fictional book Molon Labe! by Boston T. Party, describes a logical scenario. States won't secede, they will remain within the union, but nullify federal laws they do not like. They will back up nullification with a trained citizen's militia, and/or a seized nuke.

Anonymous Ted April 02, 2014 11:27 PM  

http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/

Anonymous FP April 02, 2014 11:46 PM  

"SCSSinc1 April 02, 2014 5:01 PM

The question we should be asking is whether US troops would fire on their fellow Americans. I believe the currently politicalized officer corps would not hesitate. For the most part the rank and file would not."

Indeed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRsMObY6524

My guess is 50% will do what they're told by their officers.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco April 03, 2014 1:15 AM  

O.T., but lol:

"The occasion was a protest against the Park's policy of banning BASE jumping."

Jan Davis' Fatal BASE Jump of 3,000 feet.

Anonymous Lana April 03, 2014 1:28 AM  

And Rick Perry is more worried about his hair being presidential than the state of the Republic of Texas.

To be honest, Rick Perry was ratted out by his dad, who refused to support him. Sure, his daddy was a big democrat, but still. Couldn't support his own son in Haskell County?? Funny how the media didn't cover that, Republicans and Democrats alike. He's super serious about his hair and not much else. But even perfect hair dude made the dog whistle joke about secession. He knows which way the wind is blowing and he can't say it out loud, but even he knows and repeated it for effect. It's why Kay didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows what is happening, it's just that no one is willing to say it out loud at this precise time. This is why everyone is joking about "zombies" while at the range and purchasing ammo. Do idiots like Jack really think we are preparing for The Walking Dead? Hopefully yes. Moron.

This, of course, should not lead anyone to believe that the citizens of Texas are stupid, and will not eventually throw down and leave the union. Of course they will. It would be insane to make noise about it now when the dollar is going to implode any minute now. Better to wait until the Feds have less reach and then simply ignore them altogether. The shelves that used to contain ammo aren't empty because people decided to take up shooting. The guns not available in the gun shops aren't there, but not because Texans just decided they might like to own a gun. The strangest people are arming themselves and taking classes. Or, asking for friends to teach them. Funny that. It's kinda heartening, to be honest.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 03, 2014 3:14 AM  

Krul: "I want a perspective from outside the box. What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?"

I'd love to help, but I've thought for many years that going to unmanned aircraft and cyber security is the right way.

Fundamental reorganization by mission objectives would be good, but you can't do it. If all crew-served resources tasked with killing air were under one command, and all artillery including flying artillery were under another command, that would make sense. But I read that air already offered army low-and-slow fighting vehicles in return for anti-aircraft artillery and the answer is no.

Given you can't organize functionally, you have to organize by what's in the shop. So what's going to be in the shop? Not a new generation of creepy-crawlies, or the Warthog would not be condemned. And not space either. The new frontier is "diversity" not the heavens. And so on.

Unmanned aircraft and cyber security. There's nowhere else to go.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 03, 2014 4:19 AM  

Another thing: politics and BS mission. I mean BS missions not only in the obvious sense, but in the sense of what is wanted having little to do with what is said. "No-fly zone" means "war of annihilation", "kinetic military action" just means "war" and so on.

There's a lot of sophisticated concepts and option available to air in principle, but none of them "count" if the mentality of the political leadership isn't really more sophisticated than "bring me the head of the dictator of Libya" (or bring me vile video of his death, so that I may gloat).

I agree with Bruce Charlton that we are in many ways headed for a Great Simplification. That means the present situation where air is getting orders from frivolously bloodthirsty or politically timorous dilettantes is not just a bad patch that air has to get through, it's the way of the future.

That limits what you can do with (in principle) the most flexible fighting arm. That also limits what you should do by the way of preparing for missions that you will never be given, or that if you are given, you will not be told to stick to.

When your political maestros have a "keyboard" consisting of three buttons ("blast-em!", "useless havering" and "political panic") and their "strategy" is to mash the buttons randomly or simultaneously, can you do better than to supply your leaders with a fleet of Terminator movie style hunter-killer robots, and administer that as expertly as you are allowed?

I don't think so. I think anything you do beyond that will not be appreciated or even noticed. And it won't do your nation or mankind any good.

I'd love to tell you something nicer, but I think the truth is crude.

Do not build an air force you would not want doing missions for U.S. President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho. Because the way things are going, with the intensely hostile (to the American nation) political elite the U.S. has, Idiocracy is your best case.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus April 03, 2014 4:24 AM  

The other thing I really want to tell you is how air could save the nation and be the people's friend in case of succession, civil war and so on.

...

That's a toughie.

Anonymous George of the Jungle April 03, 2014 4:35 AM  

Parallel government entities need to be set up locally, to replace those of the feds and states. This includes court systems, lawyers, judges, legislatures, representatives, sheriffs (hello J. Arpaio) etc. A national yearly caucus must then start to be called by these representatives, to discuss tariffs, taxation, immigration moratorium, no central bank, etc. etc. etc. Sooner or later as this effort gathers momentum, the Affirmative Action Pustule on the Ass-End of the Body Politic and his banksters and third-world race-baiters will start to see the handwriting on the wall.

One more thing, along with all this there needs to be effective recognition that the new parallel government is founded on Christian principles, and that whatever laws may be necessary to butress the primary pillars associated with such a society WILL be passed and WILL be enforced. It's all going to take effort, lots and lots of effort.

The devil may be in the details, but we have quite a bit of information to guide us, including writings from Mark Levin, Karl Denninger, etc. etc. Time to wake up and actually DO SOMETHING !!!

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist April 03, 2014 4:43 AM  

As someone else mentioned, look even at county electoral maps of blue states. Oregon past the east/west midpoint divide might as well be Alabama politically. California is a red state with a couple of deep blue dots. Even New York State would be a purple swing state without the greater NYC area.

The Founding Fathers thought that the problem would be protecting small states from big ones. Nope - it turned out to be protecting everybody else from the megacities. They couldn't have known that, of course - of all the failures of the system they created, it's one of the few I actually don't blame them for. But here it is nonetheless, and it can't be fixed under the current system. A system that is both obviously no longer sustainable and no longer capable of providing good government.

Which brings us to secession...

The mainstream right, including (especially) the south, still has its head too far up its ass with reflexive patriotism for a failed system and a country that hates them for that. Unfortunately, of everybody in the country, they're still the most "Murica, fuck yeah" out of everybody.

But if they ever did decide to go, they couldn't be stopped. This ain't 1862, and we're not the country now that we were then. Hell, we're not even the country we were in 1962, when Kennedy sent the National Guard to throw George Wallace off the schoolhouse steps. Who's Obama going to send - fags, single moms, and Pajama Boy? The first time that a bunch of stout southern farmboys gave that group a bloody nose, they'd go crawling back to the Yankee capital to complain about transphobia on Tumblr.

No, really - the military deeply, desperately wanted permanent bases in Iraq, but got thrown out of that country on its ass because in eight years of trying, it couldn't pacify a few thousand pissed-off Third Worlders armed with rifles, RPGs, and homemade bombs. And that was the Bush-era US military, before the Obama purges. And they're going to keep Texas in the union against its will? Tell me another one, daddy!

Someday the red states - the red counties - may finally get to the point of having really had enough. Someday they may finally stop caring about all the patriotic national myths. That day may or may not ever come. But if it does, then Katie bar the door.

Because America is a nation deeply and bitterly divided along political, religious, racial, regional, gender, and moral lines, all of which have until recently been papered over with what is now fast-disappearing prosperity, exhausted in its reservoir of social capital, armed to the teeth with weapons both built for our massive military and privately-owned, and full of millions of angry, still-young veterans of lost, useless wars who understand urban guerrilla warfare and know how to make IEDs, and who all just got their veterans' benefits cut.

How's all that sound to you?

Anonymous George of the Jungle April 03, 2014 4:47 AM  

For Example, TPTB have already provided a precedent as to court proceedings, where they allow Sharia courts to replace the so-called official system. A new Christian Church (The Conservative Church of Christian Soldiers) therefore already has allowance to do the same, by setting up an internal justice system for its own members. There must also be a whole set of concepts and associated nomenclature to describe same, something based upon Greek for example.

This is but one tiny example of what can, should, and must be done in all areas starting now.

Blogger Hermit April 03, 2014 5:14 AM  

The city of Venice has a lot of historical reason to ask for independence, not so the rest of her region.
The problem is that the city of Venice is a "progressive" city and does not wanto to secede, the rest of Veneto, mostly medium cities and rural areas, that wants to secede.

That said italian unification was a shit conquest from the Piedmont, the south was poor but the unification destroyed it: the south was subjected to martial law for ten years to pacify it.
Italy was divided for more than 1000 years, imposing centralisation was insane: we should have been a federal state but the Piedmont imposed the napoleonic revolutionary tradition of central power.
Italy thrived when it was divided and competitive, just as the entire Europe did.

Blogger Hermit April 03, 2014 5:23 AM  

One things that may interests the confederates here is the story of a thousand of soldiers from the Kingdom of Naples after the unification/conquest of Italy by Piedmont.
They were prisoners after the war of unification but the central government was afraid to release them because southern Italy was resisting with guerrilla (brigantaggio) and the soldiers would have helped the rebels.
So the government sent them to the CSA before the blockade and they served the cause of another south during the american secession war.

Anonymous George of the Jungle April 03, 2014 5:32 AM  

Well, it appears my last comment was cencored. So I'll try again. If you really want to effect lasting change in Afghanistan, first kick out Karzai, and jail him for the rest of his life in Guantanamo. Then forcibly institute a new secular constitution, in which freedom of religion is guaranteed. Then raze to the ground each and every mosque where the local imam preaches jihad. Jail him too. Then build as many Christian Churches as you can conceive, and make it a capital crime to either destroy or cause harm to their congregations. Then finally, burn all the poppy fields. Set up a real economy, you know?

Anonymous George of the Jungle April 03, 2014 6:12 AM  

"What direction do you folks think the USAF should take?"

Assuming that the TR-3 Black Manta is a going concern, then put together effective squadrons of those, and see what the hell kind of damage they can do. Try it out on Iran, hell try it out of China, and cowe their asses. Truly new technology must absolutely NOW be brought out of the closet, and made to make the masses bow down!

Anonymous Ah, The Sweet Smell Of Elitism April 03, 2014 6:45 AM  

“One more thing, along with all this there needs to be effective recognition that the new parallel government is founded on Christian principles, and that whatever laws may be necessary to butress the primary pillars associated with such a society WILL be passed and WILL be enforced. It's all going to take effort, lots and lots of effort. This is but one tiny example of what can, should, and must be done in all areas starting now.”

(Laughs) Well, then, it’s settled. Sound the trumpets! Duty calls for those “stout southern farm boys”. Polish those jackboots up, boys. Because might makes right.

OpenID cailcorishev April 03, 2014 6:51 AM  

How's all that sound to you?

All excellent, but one quibble: the US military couldn't pacify Iraq not because it didn't have the power, but because we weren't really trying to pacify it; we were trying to get them to like us enough to stop fighting. If we'd gone in with the intention of pacifying Iraq the way the British Empire used to pacify places, it would have happened. But we sent our soldiers out to build schools and voting booths that the Iraqis never wanted, and tied their hands with rules like not shooting back when the bullets happen to come from a mosque.

If our elites ever send the military against an enemy they really hate -- like red-county Americans -- they'll have no such compunction. They'll happily order killing and destruction without qualms. Remember how we had to have a national breast-beating session over a soldierette making a bunch of Iraqi prisoners get naked in a pile? Well, let a gay soldier do the same thing to a bunch of Christian priests or ministers, and leftists won't go self-critical; they'll cream their jeans with glee.

But whether they can do that depends on whether the military, mostly made up of red-county boys, follows orders. I don't have any idea about that. I think the cops are pretty well lost, even in red-county small towns. There will be exceptions, but most cops have been thoroughly brainwashed by diversity training and scare stories about domestic terrorism, and will follow orders as long as they keep coming down from D.C. The military is harder to figure, but there are others better qualified than me to guess on that. One good thing: a lot of military resources are in bases and armories out in the red counties.

On the other hand, if the current military splits or falls apart and the blue counties have to form one from their own people and resources, then yeah, we need not fear that.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 03, 2014 8:23 AM  

Exactly what holds the U.S. together? There is nil culturally speaking that makes the U.S. a nation. To put it bluntly, Texans* have a hell of a lot more in common culturally with Meskins than we do with yankee Jews.

That's not to imply that Texans have a lot in common culturally with Mexicans. Even Hispanic Texans don't necessarily have a lot in common with Mexicans. As a guy raised in Texas and now living as an expatriate in the Yankee SSR, I always identified more with the south and the Mountain West region culturally and politically than anything else. Frankly, I always thought I'd end up in the Rockies. Somewhere like Utah, Idaho or Wyoming. I might yet. But for now, the northern Midwest pays the bills.

Anonymous FrankNorman April 03, 2014 8:30 AM  

Something you folks are not taking into account.
The Yellowstone Supervolcano.

When/if it blows, who will that change the game?

Anonymous Alexander April 03, 2014 9:02 AM  

Yellowstone would, in the most cynical way possible, be a win for team blue.

In addition to the massive loss of life over a vast expanse of the country that is mostly team red, the central government would have enormous bipartisan support to 'do something'.

Anonymous Eric Ashley April 03, 2014 11:17 AM  

ADA's comment is 'Red thinks Blue is wimpy'. Calicorshev's comment is my reply, but better. The Blue would be happy to burn Houston to the ground whether with 'improved napalm' from Ralph Peters or with a simple nuke.

Perhaps the Blue are anti-productive, as Amok says. That didn't stop Genghis' hordes.

Strauss and Howe, way back when, in Generations (which is better than their 4th Turning) asked what would have happened if Lincoln and Davis had nukes. Richmond and Washington would have had mushroom clouds. According to their theory, the Boomers get harder and harder core until the kids who say 'give peace a chance' are willing to lead a War Against Evil with no holds barred.

But the mainstream conservatives may indeed rise up. If so, the Libertarians better support them.

Blogger Marissa April 03, 2014 12:04 PM  

Houston is pretty blue. We have a gay mayor and tons of vibrants.

Blogger Dystopic April 03, 2014 12:34 PM  

Secession movements will never take root in America the way they do in Europe. Consider that Venice was effectively independent from approximately 800 to 1798. It had one thousand years of existence as its own nation, compared to less than two hundred years as a part of Italy. Catalonia was the Kingdom of Aragon. Everywhere in Europe, in supposedly unified nation states, you can find traces of much older divisions.

America doesn't have this depth of history. Even where regional identities exist, such as Texas proper or "The South," those identities are much weaker. The Civil War would, at first, seem to refute this -- but in reality, it actually confirms it. After the war was fought most people just went home. Guerrilla fighting and long-term secession movements didn't follow. It was a clash of ideology, not regional identity.

That gives us a clue, however, of what an American secession event would look like. You would have very little warning. The "Era of Good Feelings" and the peaceful incorporation of Texas that followed gave way, in little over a decade, to the bloodiest war America ever fought. In Europe, the secession movements are gradual. They build up strength. Everybody knows they are there, like the Catalonians. Maybe it becomes violent, maybe not.

American secession is guaranteed to be violent, bloody and very expensive. And you probably won't see the train coming until it's almost at the station.

Blogger Marissa April 03, 2014 1:04 PM  

Houston is pretty blue. We have a gay mayor and tons of vibrants.

Maybe I should revise this. The core of the city is blue. The massive suburbs (Katy, the Woodlands) are very red.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 03, 2014 1:07 PM  

The Mongols were nomadic herders and hunters. If nothing else, they knew how to feed and arm themselves, and how to raise horses.

Interestingly, Genghis and his wars of expansion came towards the end of the Medieval Warm Period, when the Steppes had been through an extended period of mild weather with good rainfall. They probably had a population boom because of that, but Genghis came along as the MWP was beginning to taper off. So Eric Ashley might have a good comparison - a bunch of people forced into looking for conquests because a period of exceptional prosperity was coming to an and.

Now, if Barack Obama starts pulling Chinese beards, we should worry...

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 03, 2014 1:31 PM  

Something you folks are not taking into account.
The Yellowstone Supervolcano.

When/if it blows, who will that change the game?


Something else we're not taking into account: the possibility of an end Cretaceous style asteroid impact.

the possibility of UFO invasion

the possibilty of zombie plague outbreak.

another glacial maximum bringing continental glaciers all the way down to the US/Canadian border.

the possibility of the Planet of the Apes scenario.

I mean, yeah--Yellowstone has always been a possibility. So is any other volcano anywhere on the ring of fire. I often think that Mount Rainier and maybe Mount Hood blowing up wouldn't necessarily be bad for America in the long run (especially if the impact drifts southward to southern California.) But really; why would anyone acocunt for that in their prediction for social change in the next few decades or so?

Blogger James Dixon April 03, 2014 1:37 PM  

> Because might makes right.

Do you have a liberal based argument that demonstrates it doesn't?

> You would have very little warning.

The warning signs are obvious. We've been noting them here for a couple of years now. The response is people like Jack and (earlier) Tad. If people don't see it coming, it's because they're willfully blind. The open question is what will the trigger be, and that no one can predict for certain.

Blogger James Dixon April 03, 2014 1:40 PM  

> The Yellowstone Supervolcano.

The New Madrid fault becoming active is more likely. Though, both could happen at the same time.

Anonymous Alexander April 03, 2014 2:47 PM  

The enormous increase in gun sales by both the ordinary citizen and by branches of the government that have no legitimate business buying ammunition would indicate that there was not "very little warning".

Blogger Dystopic April 03, 2014 3:03 PM  

Is it, Alexander? This phenomenon is relatively new. The point is that, compared to European secessionist movements, many of which have gone on for generations, American secession is a much more unpredictable affair. You and I may know this thing is possible but to the vast majority of Americans it would come as a serious shock. Whereas in Spain, you would have to be living under a rock to be unaware of the Catalonia movement.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist April 03, 2014 3:11 PM  

"All excellent, but one quibble: the US military couldn't pacify Iraq not because it didn't have the power, but because we weren't really trying to pacify it"

I've been hearing some or another variation on this argument since just after America lost in Vietnam, and I'm not convinced to say the least.

America has lots of neat tech toys, and in the right hands they could do a lot (Imagine Caesar with A-10s!), but there are other factors involved, and while they certainly include a lack of will, as you mentioned, they are by no means limited to it. There's simple competence, and how well your system does in promoting people based on competence instead of ass-kissing or political savvy. There's overconfidence. There's institutional inertia and resistance to needed change (ask Cleombrotus I about the dangers of sticking with old tactics). There's sensitivity to political considerations. There's willingness of your soldiers to fight (ask Nicholas II about that one). There's economic stability and how much your country can afford a prolonged war (ask Gorbachev).

Some of these apply to America, some don't. But blaming the loss in Iraq on a simple lack of will is not, I think, accurate.

Blogger James Dixon April 03, 2014 3:20 PM  

> The point is that, compared to European secessionist movements, many of which have gone on for generations...

And you think the secession movement in the US hasn't? A significant percentage of the southern population has never been happy with the result the first time. Or do you really think "The South's Gonna Do it Again" was just about music? It was released almost 40 years ago now.

Anonymous Alexander April 03, 2014 3:45 PM  

Vicksburg, MS openly refused to celebrate July 4th until WWII - a solid 80 years of multi-generational grievances on display. Maybe the 60 years following have changed that... but then, keep in mind it's been *500* years since Catalan was independent, and yet here they are today, demanding it.

And Georgia only changed its flag in 2003, and even then we just went with a more subtle Confederate design.

The south - even counting the fringes that may well be lost to the transplants - is a distinct entity with the USA, and the internal boundary has not disappeared.

Blogger Harold April 03, 2014 5:20 PM  

There are things occurring today that some would have thought unthinkable- and it is coming from sheriffs. The head - and elected- law enforcment official in most counties in teh United States. The ones who are refusing to enforce the duly enacted SAFE Act in NY. The ones in CT calling their duly enacted gun control laws unconstitional. There aren't enough state troopers in NY to enforce the SAFE Act without help from sheriffs. And law enforecement runs in families. A significant portion of state troopers have relatives who are sheriffs or sheriff deputies.

Legislatures are beginning to discover there are limits to their power other then courts.

Blogger Dystopic April 03, 2014 6:00 PM  

No, James, it hasn't. You see, the issue isn't regional in the same fashion. The good ol' boys of rural Georgia have little in common with the inner city residents of Atlanta. There is a friend of mine who lives in Texas, and I spoke with him about secession some years ago. He stated that he would be fine with an independent Texas, but only if they could get rid of liberal Austin and some of the border counties full of Mexicans. It is the same for the South in general. This isn't South vs. North, this isn't Catalan vs. Castillian... it is, if anything, urban vs rural. That's an entirely different dynamic.

The first Civil War was, in many ways, a parallel of this. The North was the urbanized, industrial power and the South was mostly rural.

So, no, the secessionist dynamic in America, such that it is, isn't tied to region or history, and it's only tied to race in so much as it is rural Whites versus pretty much everyone else.

Anonymous Boise Youngster April 03, 2014 7:44 PM  

“That gives us a clue, however, of what an American secession event would look like. You would have very little warning.”

The question over the “peculiar institution” had come into focus after the American Revolution, gained momentum in the early 1800‘s when northern states banned slavery and southern states ramped up cotton production, became a litmus test with Wilmot’s Proviso in 1846, and by the 1850’s the tension was boiling over.

 There was AMPLE warning.


“American secession is guaranteed to be violent, bloody and very expensive. And you probably won't see the train coming until it's almost at the station.”


ASSUMING conditions are ripe for secession.


“Exactly what holds the U.S. together? There is nil culturally speaking that makes the U.S. a nation.”

Spoken like a tin-pot philosopher. Pro football, “city on a hill”, First Amendment, blue jeans, “town meetings” are all part of the American fabric.


“Calicorshev's comment is my reply, but better.

”

His “response” is based on farce. Listen, there is little demonstrable evidence to suggest there is an impending explosion of emotion by everyday Americans who will in the near future visibly rise up against their “oppressors” (the banksters, Spics/Niggers, big gummint, Hollyweird) and demand wholesale changes. My proof? “Somewhere like Utah, Idaho or Wyoming. I might yet. But for now, the northern Midwest pays the bills.” Exactly. The Joshua Dyals of the world are content slinging barbs from the comforts of their office or home, claiming that the end is near and we best be prepared for the impending doom.

I’ll wait until the movie comes out.

Unless there is 50% unemployment rates for several years, vibrants pillaging and plundering suburbs on a continual basis, and the majority of men and women in the armed forces taking up arms and supporting open rebellion, secession is a political dead-end.


“would have happened if Lincoln and Davis had nukes. Richmond and Washington would have had mushroom clouds.”



An exercise in mental masturbation. Please carry on.


“He stated that he would be fine with an independent Texas, but only if they could get rid of liberal Austin and some of the border counties full of Mexicans.”



Of course, that will end up peacefully. Simply ask the varmints to leave, perhaps even pay for them to move, and Texas can be free from the shackles of oppression.


“The south - even counting the fringes that may well be lost to the transplants - is a distinct entity with the USA.”



Exactly the reason why secessionist talk = Jiminy Cricket

Blogger James Dixon April 03, 2014 8:00 PM  

> No, James, it hasn't.

OK, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. I've got my experience to back up my statements and you have yours to back up yours, and never the twain shall meet.

Anonymous Steve April 04, 2014 2:59 AM  

"I realize that many Americans will find it difficult to credit, but secessionist movements are literally sweeping the entire range of Europe, from the Crimea in the east to Scotland in the West."

Not this American. It's an absolute godsend,maybe the greatest gift Europe has ever given to America.If they succeed, then we can break the chains of pc,despotism, and corruption in America,which will probably proceed on a state-by-state basis. A restoration of states' rights and a gutting of the federal government's budget and powers is all it would take to put a stop to the shenanigans immediately.

Hopefully the fire of the new political enlightenment spreads.

Anonymous Boise Youngster April 04, 2014 1:38 PM  

"Hopefully the fire of the new political enlightenment spreads."

In America, it will be extinguished before it even begins to crackle and spark.

Post a Comment

NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS. Anonymous comments will be deleted.

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts