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Wednesday, April 30, 2014

Subway goes Muslim

You may wish to reconsider your fast food options in light of this decision by the Subway chain in the UK and Ireland to submit to Sharia:
Around 200 branches of Subway have cut ham and bacon from their menus, serving halal meat in response to calls from their Muslim customers. The sandwich chain said 'following a strong demand from our Muslim customers', 185 stores in the UK and Ireland have introduced the meat, which is prepared under strict Islamic rules.
I don't know about you, but no restaurant or restaurant chain that bans ham and bacon is one that I am willing to support with my business. The clash of civilizations proceeds apace, and it is becoming every more apparent that the secular West is not the strong horse.

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157 Comments:

Blogger Hazim April 30, 2014 9:05 AM  

Kosher?

Blogger totenhenchen April 30, 2014 9:09 AM  

They may take our lives, but they'll never take our BAAACOOOONNNN!!

Blogger ScuzzaMan April 30, 2014 9:12 AM  

I re-emphasise that the "Clash of Civilisations" motif is a label invented by our internal enemies, to distract from their own treachery and transfer the blame to an external "threat", thereby cementing the loyalties of the citizenry to the institutions of power that have betrayed us so often and so well.

This is a case in point; this is not a consequence of Muslims winning but of Subway throwing their British & Irish customers under a bus, deliberately, consciously, and totally in contrast to their historic claims of liberal tolerance for all cultures.

We are not being conquered. What is happening is that our ruling class is enlarging their power over us via the cynical manipulation of the dialectic which is characterised by the "Clash of Civilisations" motif.

NOTE: Nothing I have said contradicts or critiques what VD has written. I am supplementing, not criticising or refuting-

Anonymous AmyJ April 30, 2014 9:13 AM  

We'll see the resolve when they attempt to forbid the consumption of alcohol under Sharia law. That will be interesting.

Anonymous jk April 30, 2014 9:16 AM  

But do they serve gays?

Anonymous Harold Carper April 30, 2014 9:17 AM  

@jk But do they serve gays?

Yes, but only on artisan bread.

Anonymous Hong Hu Shi April 30, 2014 9:18 AM  

I don't mind them having halal meat available. When it's available at a decent price, I prefer to buy kosher or halal meat. But demanding that they stop offering non-halal meat to customers who want it is a simple domination tactic. Burn down the mosques and run them back to Pakistan.

OpenID newrebeluniv April 30, 2014 9:19 AM  

I don't see a problem with any business catering to the desires of their customers. It looks like all those subways in places with few customers demanding Halal will still be serving bacon.

And if I want a bacon sammich in the UK, I know where not to go.

Anonymous Michael Maier April 30, 2014 9:21 AM  

I ate at a new Moroccan joint that I didn't know served Halal meats until after I got there. It all tasted great and I ate it. But I thought on it and it weighed heavily on me until I barfed it up. I felt stronger spiritually afterwards. I wasn't hungry after, IIRC. Weird.

I have also stopped doing business with a butcher (best bacon in town, dammit) because they cater to Halal.

Christians in "real life" think I'm nuts for not eating Halal. But never again. They can keep their food blessed to Satan.

I have sometimes used Muslim sites to find Halal joints to know which to avoid. You might do so in your own locality.

Anonymous Harold Carper April 30, 2014 9:27 AM  

@newrebeluniv It's not about catering to the desires of their customers. It's about catering to the desires of a destructive, anti-civil minority of customers, and about turning their backs on their own people, the people who created them and made them a success.

Anonymous jk April 30, 2014 9:29 AM  

Can queers be sandwich artists? Who is the CEO of Subway and can we get him fired ASAP?

Hate Chicken>>> Hate-Hoagies!

Blogger lordabacus April 30, 2014 9:32 AM  

Don't care if some stores in another country want to cater to their customers by nixing the pig. (Is this a Subway decision or a franchise-owner call? In the UK, are Subways franchised like in U.S.?)

This is the real scandal: "In Britain, killing an animal while they are fully conscious is illegal, but the law gives special exemption, on religious grounds, to Muslim and Jewish meat producers." Religious exemption to the rule of law. No bueno.

Anonymous Amir Larijani April 30, 2014 9:41 AM  

Ham and bacon, on croissant rolls. That's what's for breakfast.

Anonymous Feh April 30, 2014 9:43 AM  

Haven't eaten at Subway since I went low-carb.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 30, 2014 9:53 AM  

Nothing like a company bending over for 4% of the population at the expense of the others.

But at least they bent over for a larger customer base than Mozilla did.

Blogger Manach April 30, 2014 9:58 AM  

... so I may ask for no fish on the Friday's menu then ... ?

Anonymous Stilicho April 30, 2014 10:01 AM  

If there are no pigs in the sammiches, there must be Pigs In The Azaleas!

Anonymous Noah B. April 30, 2014 10:02 AM  

Never much liked Subway anyway.

Anonymous RL April 30, 2014 10:02 AM  

According to the Subway website, there are currently 1423 Subway stores in the UK and 99 in Ireland. For now, only 185 are introducing the halal meat. Your bacon and ham are safe, for awhile anyway, until the Muslims take over completely.

Anonymous Harsh April 30, 2014 10:02 AM  

Another situation where I can't boycott because I don't frequent the establishment currently.

Anonymous hygate April 30, 2014 10:04 AM  

What I find interesting is that these Subways are obviously in Muslim dominated areas and there are 185 of them.

1) That would indicate that Muslims are dominating pretty large portions of the UK, not exactly an astonishing revelation.

2) Not one Muslim had enough business acumen to start a chain of halafel sandwich shops to compete with Subway?

It seems to me that starting up some halafel observant sandwich shops owned and staffed by Muslims would have been a no brainer. Instead they had to "insist" that Subway do it for them.

Is sandwich making technology beyond the reach of Muslims? Or is making sandwiches beneath their dignity?

Or perhaps someone did start such a chain and Subway is reacting to the competition.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 30, 2014 10:05 AM  

jk April 30, 2014 9:16 AM
But do they serve gays?



here in the US, Subway ads have had pretty obviously 'queer' themes for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghMYw4wq_bM

Anonymous hygate April 30, 2014 10:07 AM  

Correction, Subway said they did this 'following a strong demand from our Muslim customers'

In other words, the Muslims weren't buying the club sandwiches.

Anonymous Josh April 30, 2014 10:08 AM  

Does anyone actually eat subway?

There are dozens of better sandwich shops.

Blogger YIH April 30, 2014 10:10 AM  

Wonder if any of those Subways that went halal look like this? Considering what ''the religion of peace'' was doing in London a while back it wouldn't surprise me.

Anonymous The other skeptic April 30, 2014 10:11 AM  

Meanwhile, despite all those vibrant people slipping into the US from South of the Border, the US economy slowed to a virtual standstil (if it wasn't negative and they fudged the numnersl.

Blogger tz April 30, 2014 10:11 AM  

If there were a rule of law, it wouldn't cover how food animals were treated.

Kosher meat must be killed in the same way. Though I wonder about all the illegals at the "kosher" packing plant. One wonders what goes into Mrs. Lovett's Mexican Burritos.

As to Subway, if they had good food I would go there, but low carb means no bread, and there are better options.

How many companies support the LGBT agenda, and Planned Parenthood and the rest of the real there seems to be no call to boycott them?

"'why not to eat halal' - sent from my iPhone" is ironic and hypocritical.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 30, 2014 10:12 AM  

It seems to me that starting up some halafel observant sandwich shops owned and staffed by Muslims would have been a no brainer. Instead they had to "insist" that Subway do it for them.

They're just rabbit people, that's all.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2014 10:17 AM  

> Is sandwich making technology beyond the reach of Muslims? Or is making sandwiches beneath their dignity?

Probably both.

Anonymous Talking Point. April 30, 2014 10:21 AM  

Multiculturalism is good because it provides ethnic restaurant fare.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 10:21 AM  

I will never, ever knowingly eat halal meat either.

Anonymous Salt April 30, 2014 10:28 AM  

We'll see the resolve when they attempt to forbid the consumption of alcohol under Sharia law. That will be interesting.

In Ireland? That'll get the Irish off their asses.

Blogger Hermit April 30, 2014 10:33 AM  

If christianity retakes the west or if Islam takes over the positive part is that secular atheism has no future.

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2014 10:36 AM  

I look forward to the public beheading of Jared Fogle.

Anonymous Josh April 30, 2014 10:41 AM  

What is the difference between halal and kosher?

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 10:43 AM  

An imam has spoken the name of Allah over halal meat, most importantly. I treat it with the "meat sacrificed to idols" -principle. If you eat it without knowledge, no biggie, and there is no need to go out of his way to obtain said knowledge. But if the knowledge is pressed on you, then DO. NOT. EAT.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! April 30, 2014 10:45 AM  

From what I can gather, those shops are franchises. Owner's choice- I don't know if their licensing allows them to go off-menu, but it makes business sense to offer halal meat if you're going to license shops in muslim-dominated communities. Subway on a corporate level obviously isn't losing money to do this. They sill control the supply chain of their franchise owners. Capitalism at its' best.
Their food takes like ass anyways, halal or not. I grew up in an area with a lot of good sub shops, and know my way around a decent sub.

Anonymous jamsco April 30, 2014 10:45 AM  

Here's my story about what I saw a man (presumably Muslim) say at Subway - from four years ago.

Anonymous dh April 30, 2014 10:47 AM  

Paul, Darn It-- quite sure you are right, Subway is 100% franchised in the US. Think so oversea's as well.

Anonymous hygate April 30, 2014 10:50 AM  

@Markku

"An imam has spoken the name of Allah over halal meat, most importantly."

Thanks for the info. I always just assumed that halal and kosher were the same thing, kosher the Hebrew term and halal Arabic.

Anonymous Sensei April 30, 2014 10:57 AM  

An imam has spoken the name of Allah over halal meat, most importantly.

Thanks Markku, I hadn't known that detail, that makes a difference. I will refrain from knowingly eating it in the future as well.

Anonymous Don April 30, 2014 11:01 AM  

I don't mind Kosher but I won't eat halal. Best food I used to eat was at a (secretly) Christian Lebanese restaurant in Seattle and the daughters who worked the front were some of the cutest things you ever saw.

One Good Friday we stopped in but they were closed they just happened to be stopping by themselves. They were dressed for Church so we said 'sorry we'll find something'. They said, 'No, sit we'll make coffee stuff your kids with pastries while we make you dinner.' We had become friends with the owner and the family and they opened the kitchen, closed the doors and cooked us a full meal with a whole gigantic fresh fish on a bed of rice I am sure was their own Good Friday dinner. They gave it to us on a beautiful platter fixed up a ton of side dishes and more pastries for the kids and sent us on our way so they could get to church.

They closed after 9-11. I always suspected it was fear of local Muslims. They were always careful to avoid saying they were Christians because they were afraid of the local muslims. Why did we import smart, decent, kind people like that family with the added bonus of cute daughters and polite manners then import the people they fled from? People who hated them enough they'd pretend to be something else.

We really don't need immigrants but if we do have to have them why can't we at least pick and choose?

Anonymous sdf April 30, 2014 11:17 AM  

Smart business move on the part of Subway.

Muslims will be the dominant demographic in Europe soon so this is a good idea.

Anonymous VD April 30, 2014 11:23 AM  

Muslims will be the dominant demographic in Europe soon so this is a good idea.

No, they won't. They're 4 percent of the population.

Anonymous Noah B. April 30, 2014 11:24 AM  

"What is the difference between halal and kosher?"

So basically, it sounds like the difference is who gets paid to bless the food.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 April 30, 2014 11:28 AM  

The UK barely batted an eye when when Diversity hacked up a white British soldier on a UK street in broad daylight.
Whatever Subway decides to do with their disgusting sandwiches will probably have no effect either.
Let's face, England's already lying back, thinking of itself.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 30, 2014 11:34 AM  

It seems to me that starting up some halafel observant sandwich shops owned and staffed by Muslims would have been a no brainer. Instead they had to "insist" that Subway do it for them.

I doubt the objective was to add Imam-approved sandwiches to the available fast food. Instead it was to impose an Imam's dictates on the rest of the population.

Anonymous darrenl April 30, 2014 11:41 AM  

What do you get when you actively try to remove Christianity from society? No bacon.

I'm shocked Richard Dawkins isn't being lynched.

Anonymous Rolf April 30, 2014 11:46 AM  

hygate- converting Subways vs opening their own shops.

Simple - getting a chain to convert is MUCH les work than starting your own and competing. It also helps keep the ball rolling on the whole "convert, submit, or die" angle. If they make their own shops, they don't have nearly as good a grievance to push in the media to bludgeon leftists with about intolerance. Open a shop and you have ONE shop, and it takes years to make a chain. Pressure one company, and suddenly a bunch of them in marginal areas that are marginally profitable can be motivated to switch, making additional changes in other shops, later, much easier.

An inch at a time, everywhere they can get it.

Anonymous Harsh April 30, 2014 11:47 AM  

What is the difference between halal and kosher?

It all has to do with the way they kill the pig.

Anonymous DaMan April 30, 2014 11:57 AM  

"Muslims will be the dominant demographic in Europe soon so this is a good idea."

Where did you get such a stupid idea?

Blogger Remo April 30, 2014 11:58 AM  

I wonder if they'll start serving camel at the Subway restaurants. It's okay if the owner has sex with it before he makes sandwiches out of it so long as he sells them to the next town over...

"A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."

Khomeini's book, Tahrirolvasyleh, vol. 4, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

Blogger YIH April 30, 2014 12:02 PM  

Josh:
What is the difference between halal and kosher?
Halal vs. Kosher.
Mainly halal allows all seafood and meat + dairy together.
Otherwise it's about which non-Christian ''blesses'' it.

Anonymous hygate April 30, 2014 12:02 PM  

@Jack Amok and @Rolf

I suspect you both are correct. Eliminate choices for non Muslims and incremental change.

My wife who works in sales tells me that it is a classic sales technique to engage in conversation with a prospective customer and get him to start saying yes. Doesn't matter what. "Fine weather?" "Yes." "Can I help you?" "Yes" "Thinking about buying?" "Yes."

Because once you get people used to saying yes they become reluctant to tell you no.

Blogger Random April 30, 2014 12:03 PM  

For those who won't eat Halal out of some sort of "UNCLEAN" principle related to being blessed in the Mohammedan god's name:

Acts 10:14-15
"14 But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. 15 And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common."

Christians are not under any restrictive dietary laws.

Enjoy your sandwich.

Anonymous Noah B. April 30, 2014 12:03 PM  

Hate speech, Remo! HATE... SPEECH!

Anonymous castricv April 30, 2014 12:21 PM  

In all fairness why should this be surprising? Every Subway I've been in has been fully run by Pakis, Arabs, Indians, Ethiopians. The food is atrociously mishandled if you ever talk to anyone who has worked there and the staff are as friendly as nails. If a few English stores want to accomodate the clientele that country in those neighborhoods is throwing at them, then they are only doing business as best they can. England always wanted Cosmo-land, now let them have it.

As for Subway, I gave up on that place years ago when I had had enough of the Indian employees being as disgusting with the food as possible. (sweating on it, no gloves, leaving it out all day) How do you think they turn a profit on a footlong sub for 5 bucks??

Anonymous A Visitor April 30, 2014 12:22 PM  

Many animal charities condemn halal slaughter as being cruel to animals.

I LOOOVE IT!!!!! The Left will now have to debate what's more important, one of its champion causes or one of its beloved minorities. While in Europe, I won't say where, I knew someone who, at one point, worked as a halal slaughterer in his native country. Basically, all that is done (he worked in a halal chicken factory) is: 1) The chicken is pointed towards Mecca 2) Its throat is slit a certain way ensuring no blood gets on the meat while saying a prayer in Arabic.

They may take our lives, but they'll never take our BAAACOOOONNNN!! BACON!!!!

I re-emphasise that the "Clash of Civilisations" motif is a label invented by our internal enemies, to distract from their own treachery and transfer the blame to an external "threat", thereby cementing the loyalties of the citizenry to the institutions of power that have betrayed us so often and so well.

This is a result of a) mass immigration promoted by (in the case of the U.S., can't speak for the U.K.) senators and congressmen and b) the immigrants themselves. There's no doubt there are those who are of Western Civilization but wish to see it fall. Having said that, the immigrants that pose a threat to the Western Civilization (in this case, Muslims) are just as great a threat if not a greater threat than the internals.

We'll see the resolve when they attempt to forbid the consumption of alcohol under Sharia law. I'd like to know if there are bars or pubs in what are now majority-Muslim neighborhoods, formally just parts of London, et. al.

I will never, ever knowingly eat halal meat either. Never have knowingly and never will!

Best food I used to eat was at a (secretly) Christian Lebanese restaurant in Seattle and the daughters who worked the front were some of the cutest things you ever saw.

@Don When I used to work in California, I'd visit friends in LA on Satrudays, spend the night, and always go to Our Lady of Mount Lebanon for Mass on Sundays. Although they offered Roman Catholic Mass at 9:30 (I was raised in the Latin rite, still attend Latin rite Mass (not Tridentine, which is spoken in Latin, though I did on occasion), they offered Maronite Catholic Mass at 11:30. I LOVED IT! At one point, (now) Bishop Elias Zeidan came back to say his first Mass since being ordained Bishop of the Eparchy of Los Angeles (he used to be the pastor at Our Lady of Mount Lebanon). That Mass was wonderful and there was a receiving line afterwards. I decided to go to said receiving line. Despite being the only white person there, Zeidan was happy to see me, we chatted for a bit, and then I went to eat all the hors d'oeuvres they had. Man, can the Lebanese cook! I didn't need to stop for lunch on the way back. Yes, their women are dynamite gorgeous!

It's a shame that shop closed. Lebanese Christians, needles to say, have won me over. I agree, we really don't need immigrants. Nonetheless, if we have to have them, can't we choose those that are compatible with our culture?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 30, 2014 12:22 PM  

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon.....

Fewer restaurants serving bacon = less demand = lower prices for the rest of us!


Verily...Allahu Akbar.

Blogger ajw308 April 30, 2014 12:26 PM  

My understanding of Halal is that it's been blessed by an Imam, which doesn't come for free. Basically, it's just a case of "My, that's a mighty nice food stand you have there. Be a shame for something to happen to it" and the Imam is paid so the food can be blessed and sold.

If you eat Halal food, you're just flowing money into the Muslim power structure.

Anonymous jay c April 30, 2014 12:26 PM  

Kosher is not about blessing anything. For something to be "officially" kosher the facilities and process has to be inspected and approved by the right sort of rabbi as meeting all the standard kosher rules. (See here.) For something to be biblically kosher, it just has to follow the rules that God laid out in the Torah, which anyone is capable of reading and interpreting for himself.

Blogger LibertyPortraits April 30, 2014 12:27 PM  

Isn't Subway just catering to the demand? What if most of their customers in the UK and Ireland are Muslim? I mean I get the whole Clash of Civilizations things, but haven't companies always been willing to get in bed with whoever has the most cash? I think this would only become a serious issue if the British pubs started to ban hog meat. (Full disclosure I have boycotted Subway for years because I don't eat bread).

Anonymous bw April 30, 2014 12:28 PM  

An inch at a time, everywhere they can get it.

There's a reason the Fabians have the tortoise as their symbol (the race is not necessarily to the swift), and he is aided constantly by one of their other symbols : the wolf in sheep's clothing.



Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 12:29 PM  

Random:

Not for the uncleanness principle, but this:

1Co 10:28 (if some one says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then out of consideration for the man who informed you, and for conscience' sake--

29 I mean his conscience, not yours--do not eat it.) For why should my liberty be determined by another man's scruples?

OpenID cailcorishev April 30, 2014 12:31 PM  

Enjoy your sandwich.

Or, if you're at a Subway, enjoy your huge slab of bread wrapped around a thin layer of actual food.

Blogger Random April 30, 2014 12:41 PM  

Markku,

I believe that's saying the opposite of what you're suggesting.

Why should my liberty be determined (limited?) by another Man's scruples?

If not, it's exactly the opposite of St. Paul's admonishment of St. Peter for not eating with the Gentiles to avoid scandalizing the Judaizers.

Anonymous Edjamacator April 30, 2014 12:51 PM  

Bleh, I won't eat at any Subway run by certain vibrant immigrants since every single time they have cheapened out on everything.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 12:53 PM  

Are you somehow missing the very clear "do not eat it", Random? I mean, that's a command, not a suggestion.

Blogger RobertT April 30, 2014 12:53 PM  

I doubt if your blog is big enough to have on impact on Subway. However, I'm hopeful it's big enough to have an impact on the Hugos. Readers should go there and vote. Maybe the revolution starts here.

Anonymous Vidad April 30, 2014 12:56 PM  

Andy Stanley thinks Christians should bake cakes for gay weddings:

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/31150

And... Western Civilization continues crumbling.

I'm not surprised when a pagan corporation goes weird since they're not held to any objective standards. But when supposed "Christian" leaders go along with the pink unicorns... well, there you go. Stick a fork in it.

Anonymous jake-the-rake April 30, 2014 12:57 PM  

Franchises do it again... whatever is chosen gets multiplied. Chick-fillet owner says something about homo marriage and millions get bent out of shape... My local eatery is owned by Leni. If he decided for or against pork, I could complain to the same man who made the decision (and who makes the sandwiches)... and receive appropriate feedback. As soon as Leni becomes Leni Incorporated... with the decor, greetings, fare, reactions, prices decided by yuppies working Excel sheets in the skyscraper housing Leni Incorporated... silly decisions become major policy... worthy of debate. A ham sandwich morphs into culture clash...

Anonymous Rolf April 30, 2014 12:59 PM  

My way of understanding it is that kosher largely has to do with cross-contamination and safe food handling practices, as understood and dictated a few thousand years ago. Look at how they require separate tools for meat and veggies, trichinosis problems in pork, cooking, lack of refrigeration, etc., and viewed from a food-safety in primitive conditions perspective kosher laws are pretty sensible.

The halal rules, though, as ajw308 said, seem to make the most sense as a shakedown racket to support the imams from what I know of them.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 1:02 PM  

Also, what were the only Old Testament laws that were reiterated to gentile Christians of New Covenant era? There's just three of them.

Act 15:29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 1:05 PM  

Or, well, four if you count blood and strangulation as different. But both are really ABOUT the blood. One about it outside the animal, and the other inside it.

Anonymous Miguel April 30, 2014 1:09 PM  

The Indians at a Subway I visited a few times would constantly ignore my "easy on the mustard" request. They seemed to think it was a sauce and would put about 5X what someone familiar with the condiment would put on a sandwich. I gave up after a while. Quiznos rocks!

Anonymous jay c April 30, 2014 1:17 PM  

OT, but sometimes I can't resist.

There are two contexts involved in the "food sacrificed to idols" debate in the NT. In one context, the subject is the food itself. There is nothing inherently wrong with eating the meat of an animal that was sacrificed to a false god, even for those of us who believe the Torah applies to all those who claim Jesus as their King. There are no rules against it in the Torah so long as it's an acceptable animal and it was bled properly. The problem is as Markku pointed out: some people are unable to separate the meat from the ritual in their own minds. Paul instructed us to be sensitive to that. In the second context, the subject is the idolatry. Most sacrifices involved eating at least part of the sacrifice. When the Jerusalem Council and Jesus said not to eat meat sacrificed to idols, they were most likely referring to participating in the sacrificial ritual itself, not to eating meat they bought at the market or that was served at a friend's house.

Anonymous civilServant April 30, 2014 1:19 PM  

it is becoming every more apparent that the secular West is not the strong horse.

Was the christian west ever a strong horse? Except for Spain one notes the permanent roll-back of christian - territory? - in the face of Islam.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 1:26 PM  

When the Jerusalem Council and Jesus said not to eat meat sacrificed to idols, they were most likely referring to participating in the sacrificial ritual itself, not to eating meat they bought at the market or that was served at a friend's house.

I'd rather say that Paul further CLARIFIED the principle, because the question of "what if I do it without knowing that it was?" had probably come up. Causing some to be hypervigilant about it.

However, when the store tells you in writing that you can't reasonably ignore that this has been done to all their meat, then I'm positive that the thing to do is to abstain. Not because the meat corrupts you, but because we are ambassadors of Christ.

Anonymous CJ April 30, 2014 1:32 PM  

Seventh-Day Adventists FTW!

Except for Spain one notes the permanent roll-back of christian - territory? - in the face of Islam.

Greece, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Venice, and most of Cyprus were Ottoman possessions that are at least nominally Christian today. The conquests made during the first Muslim expansion in the 7th Century proved to be more permanent, but even then Sicily and Spain (which you mentioned) reverted to Christian control.

Anonymous Rolf April 30, 2014 1:34 PM  

civilServant - yes, it was. Crusades. Stopping the Ottoman Turks. Stopping the Barbary pirates. keeping a lid on pagan and Islamic pirates of the south and eastern Pacific and the Indian oceans (think Brit Empire). The Eastern Roman Empire, AKA Byzantium, holding back northern incursions for centuries. Not perfect, and not stable in the long run, but then nothing human is.

Anonymous CJ April 30, 2014 1:40 PM  

To clarify, the comment about Seventh-Day Adventists should've been preceded with the quote about removing ham and bacon.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 30, 2014 1:46 PM  

civilServant April 30, 2014 1:19 PM
Except for Spain one notes the permanent roll-back of christian - territory? - in the face of Islam.



Kaziglu Bey, who dat?

Jan Sobieski, who dat?

the Barbary pirates, who dey?

the explosive growth of the Church in Africa ...

Anonymous civilServant April 30, 2014 1:49 PM  

My understanding of the Ottomans is that they almost are a special case. They conquered but made no great effort to convert and even today Turkey attempts to be a secular state. In any case Byzantium and the crusades all failed long-term and "keeping the lid on" seems to be the best the christian west can accomplish in most cases. Even the present Zionist effort seems unsound long-term. It seems islamic populations are never "in play" but christian populations are always "in play".

Anonymous jamsco April 30, 2014 1:50 PM  

How Subway Can Survive the Witchhunt

Recognize that it is happening. If it’s on Vox Populi, it will soon be everywhere!
Don't think that you can reason your way out of it. Don’t reverse the causality. Most likely it’s been decades since Vox visited one of your establishments. He’s just looking for a good reason to cut all ties.
Do not apologize! Show some strength of character!
Expose their excesses. Vox could have suggested that people just boycott in Europe, but if you read his post carefully, you see that he makes no such distinction.
Do not resign! If you decide to shut down all of the stores in Europe, you’re just playing into their hands.
Make the rubble bounce. Now you may think you’ve already done this by taking away the bacon. But there’s still the “American” cheese.
Start nothing, finish everything. Honestly, I’m not sure to apply this. Okay, how about this – point out all of the pork that is being purveyed at Burger King! And McDonalds! With any luck … okay now this is getting ridiculous. Carry on.

Anonymous civilServant April 30, 2014 1:52 PM  

the explosive growth of the Church in Africa ...

My church has missionaries there. They report that Saudi Arabia is pouring money into their region and has far more influence than the missionaries.

Anonymous CJ April 30, 2014 2:04 PM  

My understanding of the Ottomans is that they almost are a special case. They conquered but made no great effort to convert and even today Turkey attempts to be a secular state. In any case Byzantium and the crusades all failed long-term

The Turks took Christian boys from rural areas, forced them to convert and drafted them into the Janissaries. They also accepted useful converts from the militaries and upper classes of conquered peoples. More than a few of the Ottoman commanders at Lepanto were apostate Christians, the most prominent being Kilic Ali.

Byzantium ultimately fell, but the Muslims lost everything outside the Middle East except Albania and Northern Cyprus.

Anonymous Rolf April 30, 2014 2:08 PM  

civilServent - consider: the Brit empire was keeping a lid on thing on the far side of the world! The US fought and stopped the Barbary pirates 5,000 miles away in the day of sail, and we were but a fledgling nation. The crusades were in the middle East, with soldiers mostly from northern and western Europe. The conquistadores and missionaries took south and central America in boat a hundred feet long, vastly outnumbered. The Christian West is the only force the world has ever seen that has had the ability to project power far from it's borders, whereas Islam has only been able to conquer or defeat enemies at the physical edge of their empires/nations, and even then within their nations they have depended on non-Muslims for a major portion of their technical and military capabilities. Take western engineers and techs out of Saudi Arabia and their oil production falls drastically, stop selling them weapons and the best they can make domestically is the AK-47 and some simple light arms like mortars. It's the same in virtually every other majority-muslim nation that depends primarily on resource extraction for its money.
The strength of the Christian West is grossly under-rated, because it is so rarely brought to bear properly in its full force.

Blogger Joshua_D April 30, 2014 2:15 PM  

Hey. Can anyone give me some clarification on the name, "Allah". Is that a general reference to God in the Arabic language that predates the birth of Islam? Is it the same as the English word "God"?

Anonymous CJ April 30, 2014 2:19 PM  

Joshua_D - Yes. Arabic speaking Christians called God "Allah" long before Muhammad. It's a cognate of "El"

Blogger James Higham April 30, 2014 2:22 PM  

Many of us are boycotting Subway now.

Blogger Joshua_D April 30, 2014 2:24 PM  

Thanks CJ.

Blogger Danby April 30, 2014 3:00 PM  

I treat halal meat as if it were sacrificed to idols, as in a sense it has.

"For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol’s temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ."

Halal meat is the jizya for the West.

Anonymous ENthePeasant April 30, 2014 3:50 PM  

AMEN!!! No bacon is barbaric.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 30, 2014 4:29 PM  

"No bacon is barbaric."

Not even if it comes from long pig?

Blogger Anthony April 30, 2014 4:39 PM  

Many many years ago, Noah's Bagels closed for Passover. They had a cute add saying "Because you can't make an unleavened bagel, Noah's will be closed for Passover", with a picture of American-style cracker-matzoh cut into an annulus.

And they certainly didn't sell bagel sandwiches with ham or bacon. (In fact, the only meat they used was fish. And eggs, but those are ok with dairy, too.) Lately, I've been hearing their add for their new bacon-something sandwich.

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 30, 2014 5:03 PM  

Their old slogan was Eat Subway. Eat fresh.

The new one is Eat Subway. Beat Jews.

Progress is here.

Anonymous physphilmusic April 30, 2014 5:18 PM  

I think some of you are overreacting to the halal meat being served in Subway. I suppose those are the people with vulnerable consciences mentioned by Paul. Really, the only difference of halal meat from regular meat is that some meaningless (for a Christian) rituals are done over it when the animal is slaughtered. "Food offered for idols"? Do you really think of the Muslim God as an "idol"? From the Christian viewpoint, it's a wrong understanding and conception of God, but I still think Muslims are worshiping the same God, just like the Jews are. Otherwise would you object to eating meat being blessed by a Mormon? How about a non-Trinitarian like VD? How much of a difference in one's conception of God does it have to be before it counts as an "idol" as opposed to God?

Add that to the fact that the majority of Muslims I know (and I live in a Muslim majority country) really only care whether it has pork in it or not. The rest is a bureaucratic racket drummed up by clerics and imams. The real news of the story is that they aren't serving non-halal meat anymore, not that halal meat is being served.

It seems to me that starting up some halafel observant sandwich shops owned and staffed by Muslims would have been a no brainer. Instead they had to "insist" that Subway do it for them.

Is sandwich making technology beyond the reach of Muslims? Or is making sandwiches beneath their dignity?

This is the wrong accusation to make. Of course there are plenty of halal, Muslim-staffed restaurants - how long in NYC, Boston or LA do you have to walk before finding a halal falafel restaurant? Nah, the Muslims are just insisting everybody else also cater to them, not just among themselves.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 30, 2014 5:27 PM  

I LOOOVE IT!!!!! The Left will now have to debate what's more important, one of its champion causes or one of its beloved minorities.

Hate to break it to you, but pinkos have NO problem with cognitive dissonance. Perhaps it's an adaptation.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 5:30 PM  

Do you really think of the Muslim God as an "idol"?

Absolutely.

Anonymous physphilmusic April 30, 2014 5:34 PM  

How about the Mormon God then? The Jewish God? The Arian God? VD's God? How much of a difference in one's conception of God does it have to be before it counts as an "idol" as opposed to God?

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 5:41 PM  

Mormon God I view only as horribly mistaken (to the degree of there being no salvation) attempt to worship Yahweh. Jewish God as understandably mistaken but obsoleted (to the degree of there being no salvation) attempt of the same. Arianism and VD's position as heterodox views that are within the pale of Christianity. However, the Muslim god I view as an attempt for an utterly alien object of worship to usurp the name and status of Yahweh.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 30, 2014 5:51 PM  

Markku April 30, 2014 5:41 PM
However, the Muslim god I view as an attempt for an utterly alien object of worship to usurp the name and status of Yahweh.



pretty much this.

Christ tells us to go and PREACH THE WORD to all the world.

Islam says to go out into the Dar al-Harb and force all to convert or die; Jews and Christians ( 'people of the book' in muslim parlance ) are permitted to 'submit' through jizya. but Islam still requires them to be ruled by a Caliph.

if you can't see a difference there, i don't know what else to tell you.

Anonymous Blume April 30, 2014 5:59 PM  

Amen brother totenhenchen!

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs April 30, 2014 6:18 PM  

Do you really think of the Muslim God as an "idol"?

Without question.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs April 30, 2014 6:28 PM  

O/T (or is is...?): Islamic Extremists Now Crucifying People in Syria—and Tweeting Out the Pictures

Anonymous Blume. April 30, 2014 7:19 PM  

I prefer heretics for jews, mormons, and muslims. Different prophets. But dont worry you can have false idols of any nature. Any thing that takes the place of God in your worship is an idol. Obama can be an idol. John Lennon can be an ideal. The Dallas Cowboys can be an idol.

Anonymous Salt April 30, 2014 7:23 PM  

I saw we all start a franchise system. "Ilk Bacon House" Bacon on everytning. "Would you like Dread sauce with that?"

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 7:24 PM  

The take-away will be "bringing home the bacon"

Blogger Tommy Hass April 30, 2014 8:28 PM  

I don't exactly see what the big deal is. The reason why subway does this is because Christians don't require special food but muslims do. It is only logical to cater to the tastes of muslims more closely because Christians are generalists and like beef and chicken too.

Blogger Tommy Hass April 30, 2014 8:30 PM  

"Burn down the mosques and run them back to Pakistan."

Try. We will erase your family tree.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2014 8:43 PM  

Try. We will erase your family tree.

Still worth it.

Blogger Michael Maier April 30, 2014 9:43 PM  

Tommy Hass is a pathetic attempt at Agent Provocateur.

Tad, maybe? Tad-ish, for certain.

Anonymous Harsh April 30, 2014 9:52 PM  

I don't exactly see what the big deal is. The reason why subway does this is because Christians don't require special food but muslims do. It is only logical to cater to the tastes of muslims more closely because Christians are generalists and like beef and chicken too.

This logic is so inept it's easier to just call you an idiot.

OpenID cailcorishev April 30, 2014 9:56 PM  

The reason why subway does this is because Christians don't require special food but muslims do.

That explains why all the restaurants in my town, which is nearly 50% Catholic, only serve fish on Fridays.

Oh wait, they don't do that at all. I guess you're an idiot.

Anonymous bob k. mando April 30, 2014 10:28 PM  

"Burn down the mosques and run them back to Pakistan."

Tommy Hass April 30, 2014 8:30 PM
Try. We will erase your family tree.



that just about perfectly encapsulates the difference right there.

somebody suggests deporting muslims back to their homelands.

muslim responds by threatening to murder all and sundry, including women and children who wouldn't have had a damn thing to do with the deportation effort.

for his next trick, Tommy will assert that Islam is 'the religion of peace'.

unfortunately, we're also already familiar with taqqiyah. so the lying will come as no surprise to us.

Anonymous bw1 April 30, 2014 10:54 PM  

Correction to Markku's post: Halal is Kosher minus the prohibition on combining dairy and meat, and, depending on one's Imam, the prohibition on shellfish. There is no need for Clergy, trusted observant lay persons can be used as observers to verify compliance, and the meat is NOT offered as a sacrifice, and even if it were, it would be offered ostensibly to the God worshipped by Abraham, not an idol. Halal is much more loosely enforced than Kosher - it's pretty much a self-certification process, whereas with Kosher, each certifying organization has trademarked its symbol.

In answer to those asking about having a few Halal menu offerings, with Kosher or Halal, you can't have pork or other "traife" foods on the premises. That actually has some side benefits. I used to live in a heavily orthodox neighborhood, which was home to the only Kosher sushi bar between NYC and Chicago. People with really bad shellfish allergies would drive hundreds of miles just to eat there because they knew their tuna roll hadn't been cut with a knife that just cut a shrimp roll.

There is no need for this to be handled at the corporate level. A close friend of mine was an investor in the very first Kosher Subway franchise. Subway sent a representative to verify the quality of their meat and subsitute cheese products, and that was the limit of HQ's involvement. It wasn't all that difficult since most of Subway's meats that traditionally come from pork are actually turkey-based. The only sandwich they didn't offer was the shrimp/seafood salad. It's located at a Jewish Community Center, and is wildly successful.

There's nothing wrong with a private business meeting market demand. However, if this is not being done in response to actual economic demand, they'll suffer economically when those who seek bacon and ham take their business elsewhere. With the exception of this being a top down corporate policy in the UK, and the public announcement that makes it seem to be an Al Sharpton shakedown capitulation, it's no more of an issue than Chipotle's policy of using free-range, antibiotic-free pork.

Anonymous bw1 April 30, 2014 10:57 PM  

"That explains why all the restaurants in my town, which is nearly 50% Catholic, only serve fish on Fridays."

I bet most of them feature fish on Fridays or have fish specials. McDonald's steps up marketing of its filet'o'fish sandwich during Lent. Catholic abstinence doctrine doesn't have any issue with fish prepared alongside meat.

Blogger IM2L844 April 30, 2014 11:00 PM  

Kosher is not about blessing anything.

Whatever it is, it makes their dill pickles delicious.

Anonymous bw1 April 30, 2014 11:02 PM  

"Mormon God I view only as horribly mistaken (to the degree of there being no salvation) attempt to worship Yahweh...However, the Muslim god I view as an attempt for an utterly alien object of worship to usurp the name and status of Yahweh."

Actually, historically and in terms of their relationship to Christianity, there's very little difference between Mohammed and Joseph Smith.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 30, 2014 11:30 PM  

There's nothing wrong with a private business meeting market demand.

Unless the market being met is demanded by your cultural enemies, in which case... well, thirty years ago, who cares? These days? Apparently it's game on.

Declare.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 01, 2014 12:08 AM  

Try. We will erase your family tree.

Impotent internet tuff gai is impotent.

Blogger Mint May 01, 2014 12:33 AM  

Living in a country with the largest Muslim population albeit the moderate ones, I have to deal with all things Halal, from my make up, medicine (even shoes!) to food I eat everyday. Meat sold for public come from butchers that have Halal certification done. How the minority deal with this? Well, we provide what we need ourselves of course. There are pig farm you can buy your porky delight, and of course open your own restaurant.

Other things, well it's not so easy to avoid it. National chain restaurant, make up, medicine *must* declare their Halal-ness. In cases where the concentration of Christians are so small in number that opening up a restaurant catering for Non Muslim is a business madness, no way out but Halal. In that regard Christians here just shrug it off and better remind themselves that Kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17)
There were cases of riot when someone found out one well known shoes brand have pig skin as their material, or when one time a well known artist chided for promoting a medicine found out has an ingredient that can tracked back to pig oil or something.

Anonymous Rex Little May 01, 2014 1:10 AM  

If you want other reasons to avoid Subway. . .

Blogger Tommy Hass May 01, 2014 1:49 AM  

"somebody suggests deporting muslims back to their homelands."

He suggested burning mosques. This is how you deal with people who burn your houses of worship for not eating your pork. Maybe you ought to do the same.

Also, you don't actually believe that I wasn't just venting, do you. (although burning mosques would lead to violence, I can guarantee you that)

"That explains why all the restaurants in my town, which is nearly 50% Catholic, only serve fish on Fridays.

Oh wait, they don't do that at all. I guess you're an idiot."

Your analogy is strange. My point was that there is literally no harm done to Christians. Eating halal food isn't against Christian beliefs unless I'm mistaken. However, eating non halal food more or less IS against Islamic beliefs.

I guess it is retarded that they eliminate pork, as the presence of pork at Subway doesn't remove beef or poultry. But removing pork doesn't make it so that non muslims cannot eat at Subway anymore.

So it is a silly thing to do, but ultimately doesn't deprive Christians/atheists all that much unless you are obligate pork eaters.

Blogger Markku May 01, 2014 4:10 AM  

Also, you don't actually believe that I wasn't just venting, do you.

I'm a bit confused about the double negative, but yes, killing my family is what I'd expect of you.

Blogger Markku May 01, 2014 4:36 AM  

Or, well, trying. But I obviously won't discuss strategic issues such as their actual preparedness for such a scenario.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 01, 2014 6:08 AM  

Also, you don't actually believe that I wasn't just venting, do you.

Spavined sentence structure aside: I afford the religion of honor killings, acid attacks and forced cliterectomies exactly the level and stripe of regard it merits.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp May 01, 2014 6:36 AM  

So little time. So much stupid.

I despair at times, I do confess it.

Anonymous Bob Sacamano May 01, 2014 6:49 AM  

"Islam says to go out into the Dar al-Harb and force all to convert or die; Jews and Christians ( 'people of the book' in muslim parlance ) are permitted to 'submit' through jizya. but Islam still requires them to be ruled by a Caliph."

Says the lunatic Christian jihadist. Because God on my side.

Listen, there are tens of millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims who go about their business and do not repeatedly and openly advocate "open season" on other religions.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 01, 2014 7:28 AM  

Christian jihadist

No such animal. Words mean things, ultimately.

Anonymous Mark Call May 01, 2014 9:05 AM  

The Bible says that pig is "not food". That has not changed, and God has not redesigned the bodies of either pigs nor men in the last 2000 years. And the fact that some people have tried to twists Acts 10 (read it, Kefa/Peter TELLS people the meaning of his dream!) doesn't change that.

And as a friend of mine likes to say, "Jesus Christ did not die on the cross so you could eat a ham sandwich!".

(And, yes, VD - a restaurant that didn't have non-foods on their menu, whether we're talking GMO'd Franken-soy or morpho-corn, or pork, or shellfish, or Fukushima oysters -- is one I'd thankfully patronize. ESPECIALLY if the owners studied Scripture, rather than the koran.)



Nevertheless, the irony here is thick:

Subway (and most here, sadly) could care less what the Bible has to say about food, and only evidently notice when a bogus religion serving "another master" manages to actually get one thing right.

There's something really twisted about that.

As the old saying goes, "even a blind big occasionally finds an acorn... But it's still not food."

Anonymous bob k. mando May 01, 2014 9:23 AM  

Tommy Hass May 01, 2014 1:49 AM
Also, you don't actually believe that I wasn't just venting, do you.



venting? that's just 'venting'?

oh yeah, you're a muslim living in Turkey. you can play the 'minority' card and idiots like Sacamano will show up to defend you.

whereas, if you were a white man in the west saying the exact same thing the other way, Sacamano would be claiming you were a racist ( racist because Sacamano is too fucking stupid to draw a distinction between race and religion ) pig.


1,500 years of jihadist suicide attacks, sword conversions and slaving raids. from Mohammed himself onwards.

a mohammedan threatens MORE of it
...
and i'm supposed to 'know' he's joking.

oh yeah, i covered taqqiyah and you going "religion of peace" already.

it's almost like i didn't call your shot before you tried to make it.



Bob Sacamano May 01, 2014 6:49 AM
Says the lunatic Christian jihadist.



you will now point out where *i* advocated jihad or you will retract.

not that you even know what jihad means, you doofus retard.



Bob Sacamano May 01, 2014 6:49 AM
Listen, there are tens of millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims



and there are ~1.6 billion Muslims.

so, by your own metric, even if i assume a hundred and sixty million peaceful Muslims, i still have +90% of a billion violent muslims to deal with.

note that i don't actually think there are 1.4 billion violent muslims, i'm just running with your incompetent numbers.

in truth, i have every expectation that a majority of muslims are like Tommy here.

all mouth, no suicide vest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMsU9Ex-kJY

but he'll still be happy to stand around in a crowd and encourage all the others to get their hands bloody.

and when you have a population of 1.6 billion, even 1% going violent gives you an army of suicide bombers 16 million strong.


but you keep calling me 'racist'.

i'm sure they'll make allowances for you when they start rounding up atheists and forcing them to kiss the Koran or die.

OpenID Judged by my Peers May 01, 2014 9:28 AM  

Mark Class - "The Bible says that pig is "not food"."

Do you say this because pigs are not kosher (unfit to eat)? Or does the Bible specifically say they are not food? I tried Googling it, but all it told me was that pigs are friends, not food.

Anonymous Mark Call May 01, 2014 9:35 AM  

PS> Markku --

This is SOOOOO WRONG that, even though OT, it MUST be corrected:

Also, what were the only Old Testament laws that were reiterated to gentile Christians of New Covenant era? There's just three of them."
(re: Act 15:29)

NO! Read the whole chapter and story in context, and resist the fallacy of taking one verse out of context and twisting it to fit something else.

The terms are "NECESSARY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT CONDITIONS!"

Why is that so obvious? Why did they all agree that letter was good? And why does v 19 use the active present tense to describe those "turning to God" from among the pagan nations? Because it was -- just like it still is -- a work in progress. A 'walk', if you will. And it STARTS with a few first steps, and "coming in the Door." And one you ENTER via the 'strait gate' the point is to learn to WALK the "strait path".

Few do, if you recall, and assumptions like that are a big part of the reason why: Repentance ( "t'shuvah" in Biblical Hebrew) is just the BEGINNING.

Don't ignore the key verse 15:21, about the fact that the instruction of YHVH (aka "torah", His instruction, which includes "the Books of Moses", or Torah capitalized) was taught "in every city," on "every Sabbath."

START with "these necessary things." (v 28)

How will you then "do well"? By learning the rest!

Talk about an "xtian fallacy." Why take a class if you don't plan to learn anything beyond the pre-requisites?

Blogger Markku May 01, 2014 10:57 AM  

Yeah... I remember you, MC. And I most assuredly AM going to ignore you.

OpenID cailcorishev May 01, 2014 10:59 AM  

Pork is an excellent food, and very versatile. Another thing about hogs is that they're good for self-sufficiency. You can raise a couple pigs in a pretty small space, feeding them all your kitchen scraps, without a large investment. Many people, even in town, used to raise a couple porkers in a pen the back yard. (A thousand hogs in a building smell bad; a couple in a pen outside don't.)

Compare that to cattle, which need to be raised on at least an acre of grass each if you want them to be healthy and provide good beef. Other grazers like sheep and goats don't need as much space as cattle, but still considerable. Slaughtering a hog isn't a small job, but a family can do it in a day and wind up with a couple hundred pounds of meat, and the curing process involved in making bacon and ham helps preserve it.

The elites don't want us self-sufficient, so it's no surprise they'd want to wean us away from pork.

Blogger Markku May 01, 2014 11:01 AM  

However, for my part, you are still free to do your shtick. Can't speak for Vox, though.

Anonymous Mark Call May 01, 2014 12:30 PM  

Just like to seem to ignore Scripture, evidently, Markku.

Nevertheless, I know that there are many among the Ilk, who will "study, to show themselves approved," and who can actually read it for THEMSELVES. Occasionally, iron really DOES sharpen iron. It's why we're here.

Anonymous Mark Call May 01, 2014 12:33 PM  

'Pork is an excellent food."

Well, that settles it. I guess God should've just asked YOU, Cailcorishev.

Anonymous Mark Call May 01, 2014 12:57 PM  

And - far more importantly - and seriously, this one:

Do you say this because pigs are not kosher (unfit to eat)? Or does the Bible specifically say they are not food? I tried Googling it, but all it told me was that pigs are friends, not food.

The Bible specifically says they are not food, through quite a few witnesses, including the obvious ones like Leviticus chapter 11 and Deuteronomy 14, and all those other places (including Matthew 5:17-19) that say the Messiah never changed so much as the smallest part of what He Himself Wrote, so long as "heaven and earth" still exist. (check that out for yourself, too. They're all still here.)

"Kosher" is technically a bit different (based on what the rabbis say, which - just like the popes - is not quite the same thing as what Scripture does; meat + milk for the obvious example).

And like I said above, read Peter's dream (Acts 10, esp. v 28, where he tells those who "don't get it" that the dream is NOT about food at all - it's about MEN.) Doesn't it seem a bit odd that IF "Jesus had declared all foods clean," that Peter would've know that, and maybe had a pork chop? Yet he says clearly in v 14 that he had NEVER done so - even after walking daily with His Lord, eating with Him, and seeing His resurrection.

Hmm. Maybe he didn't get the memo. Same goes for Shaul (Paul).

But the CONTEXT doesn't fit our "modern understanding" until you realize that these guys would have no more considered "pork" to be food than you would the brown s--t that the dog left in the back yard, even if somebody was to tell you how good it tastes fried with eggs. When THEY wrote the word "food", it simply did not include things they knew God had said weren't to be eaten.

Want another dozen plus witnesses? That our Creator, Who Wrote the manual, knew what's better for us than those who call Him a liar?

- EVERY major pandemic affecting man has always come through swine. (Now, with genetic weaponization, via gene splicing, we can wreak even more havoc, however.)

- Pigs eat dead things. They, like shellfish, are "bottom feeders," designed to be the first rung on the recycling ladder. They don't sweat, they have "effluent tubes" running down their legs (ask a pig farmer) which will kill them if they become plugged, and trichinosis is the LEAST of the issues about their "not-food-ism." Look up enzymes in their "meat" like "cadaverene" and "putrescene".

- Their DNA is very close to that of man. (Coincidentally, check Lev, Deut, etc again - people are "not kosher to eat", either.) That is why so many diseases (plagues - that word makes a good Bible search, too, for study) readily "jump the species barrier" to man.

- Finally, check out the latest "indicator" in the current news. Baby pig diarrhea is the new epidemic killing off animals all over Amerika. Maybe there's a message there, for "those with eyes to see," and "ears to hear."



PS> When it comes to Scripture, JbmP, Google is prolly about the LAST place you wanna trust. ;)

Don't believe me, however, be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11) -- search it out for yourself, see if it's true. And ask yourself just WHICH "Scripture" Paul was referring to there. Hint: Some will tell you it's "old" and "done away with." The Bible says they're liars.

Anonymous Mark Call May 01, 2014 1:00 PM  

Oh, and finally -- for all who would rather ignore the Truth and "choose that in which YHVH does not delight"...

check out the last chapter in Isaiah. (66, for the lazy)

See if a dozen or so things don't jump right out at ya...

And - note that it's got NUTHIN' to do with the koran, either.

Anonymous Bob Sacamano May 01, 2014 7:38 PM  

“whereas, if you were a white man in the west saying the exact same thing the other way, Sacamano would be claiming you were a racist.”


Except as it was demonstrably proven in an epic 540+ post entitled “Am I A Racist”, there is no such thing as racism or racist. It’s just slogan, empty rhetoric. The concept is devoid of any meaning or meaningful context.


“note that i don't actually think there are 1.4 billion violent muslims...”


No, you just believe that Islam demands that all convert or die.


“and when you have a population of 1.6 billion, even 1% going violent gives you an army of suicide bombers 16 million strong.”

Which, by this metric, means that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, law-abiding citizens, as I correctly stated. And you wildly assume that there is even 1% who will actually engage in killing themselves and others in the name of Allah. In essence, you're throwing your own fecal matter on the wall of Jesus Christ.


"1,500 years of jihadist suicide attacks, sword conversions and slaving raids. from Mohammed himself onwards."

On par with 2000 years of Christian charity in the form of missionary purges, smallpox blankets, and crusading slaveholders, for starters.

Anonymous Luke May 01, 2014 7:45 PM  

Actually, Bob, when Muslims currently residing in Western countries are polled, large percentages, sometimes even majorities, support the imposition of Sharia law there. Further, there are substantial numbers of Muslims who not only think very highly of the suicide bombers and such, but knowingly contribute money, etc., to organizations they know full well fund the bombers. For every bomber, there are multiple givers of food, housing, etc. to aid them. Due to this, and the impossibility of discerning which Muslim is which type, any nonMuslim nation that wishes to endure needs to expel all known Muslims, without apology or delay.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 01, 2014 8:20 PM  

More "peaceful, law-abiding Muslims," acting out the tenets of their savage faith:

For two weeks, retired teacher Samson Dawah prayed for news of his niece Saratu, who was among more than 230 schoolgirls snatched by Boko Haram militants in the north-eastern Nigerian village of Chibok. Then on Monday the agonising silence was broken.

When Dawah called together his extended family members to give an update, he asked that the most elderly not attend, fearing they would not be able to cope with what he had to say. "We have heard from members of the forest community where they took the girls. They said there had been mass marriages and the girls are being shared out as wives among the Boko Haram militants," Dawah told his relatives.

[...]

On the night of the abduction, militants showed up at the boarding school dressed in Nigerian military uniforms. They told the girls that they were there to take them to safety. “They said, ‘Don’t worry. Nothing will happen to you,’ ” Sanya told me. The men took food and other supplies from the school and then set the building on fire. They herded the girls into trucks and onto motorcycles. At first, the girls, while alarmed and nervous, believed that they were in safe hands. When the men started shooting their guns into the air and shouting “Allahu Akbar,” Sanya told me, she realized that the men were not who they said they were. She started begging God for help; she watched several girls jump out of the truck that they were in.

Peaceful. Law-abiding.

OpenID cailcorishev May 01, 2014 8:28 PM  

Soon after 9/11, and before the Bush administration started blathering about the "religion of peace" and all criticism of Islam was placed out-of-bounds, there was a report that said at least 80% of mosques in the US are funded by Saudi Arabia and of the hard-core militant Wahabbi sect of Islam. These are not live-and-let-live Muslims, to the extent that such exist anyway.

Thing is, most ordinary Americans don't know many Muslims. I don't know any, personally. Most people know one who works in their office, or that one family who has a kid in their school, and they seem like nice enough folks if a little strict and standoffish. But it's not like they're hanging out with them to watch football on weekends, so they don't know that much about what they really think about things. (How many people who knew the studiously inoffensive Barack Obama around the office would have guessed he attended a church where the pastor ranted "God damn America"?) So as with most things, we get our beliefs about Muslims from TV, where they get the religion-of-peace filter and we're told that the nasty ones are the exception.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 01, 2014 8:34 PM  

Tennessee Imam Preaches Jihad: "Jews and Christians are Filthy"

Qadhi quotes Muhammad saying: “I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify la illaha illa Allah [there is no god but Allah].” He also says: “The life and property of a mushrik [one who worships others besides Allah] holds no value in the state of jihad... which means if they don’t say la illaha illa Allah, their lives and property are halal” — that is, they can lawfully be seized by Muslims.

Five bucks says there's no slightest hint of condemnation for this sort of hatred and intolerance anywhere on ANY of the blog sites or Twitter feeds authored by Scalzi, Hines, Jemisin, Kowal, McGuire or the Twin Tor Toadlings, as of the time/date stamp of this this posting. Any takers...?

Anonymous Bob Sacamano May 01, 2014 9:30 PM  

"there was a report that said at least 80% of mosques in the US are funded by Saudi Arabia and of the hard-core militant Wahabbi sect of Islam."

That estimation is fraudulent at its core when it was reported in 1999.

"I don't know where he came up with that," says Ingrid Mattson, a Hartford Seminary professor and vice president of the Islamic Society of North America. African-Americans alone account for a third of the mosques, she notes, "and they clearly are not Wahhabis." The CAIR-Hartford study found that about 20 percent of mosques say they interpret the Koran literally, but 7 in 10 follow a more nuanced, non-fundamentalist approach."

On the October 31, 2001, broadcast of CNN International's Q&A, then-Muslim Public Affairs Council senior adviser Maher Hathout was asked about Kabbani's claim, to which he responded by saying that he "disagree[d]" and that "[w]e had requested him to prove them or to retract them, he did neither."


"when Muslims currently residing in Western countries are polled, large percentages, sometimes even majorities, support the imposition of Sharia law there."

September 7, 2011--Like many Americans, members of the American Islamic Leadership Coalition (AILC) have been observing the efforts of a growing number of state legislatures, which are seeking to address the incompatibility of various shari‘ah court systems around the world with the principles and foundations of our Constitutional republic and its laws. As American Muslims, we believe that the law should treat people of all faiths equally, while protecting Muslims and non-Muslims alike from extremist attempts to use the legal instrument of shari‘ah (also known as Islamic jurisprudence, or fiqh) to incubate, within the West, a highly politicized and dangerous understanding of Islam that is generally known as “Islamism,” or “radical Islam.”

Try again.


"Five bucks says there's no slightest hint of condemnation for this sort of hatred."

The imam is a nut job.

August 2012--In Oklahoma City, vandals defaced the Grand Mosque, firing paintball guns at it while it was filled with worshippers. In Lombard, Ill., a "MacGyver bomb" hit the window of an Islamic school that was being used for evening prayer. The soda bottle, filled with chemicals and aluminum foil that react to make an explosion, did not break the window and exploded outside, so worshippers were rattled but not hurt. In Hayward, Calif., four teenagers were arrested after vandalizing a mosque by throwing lemons, oranges, eggs, and firing BB guns.

A donut says there's no slightest hint of condemnation for this sort of hatred from...Speaker-To-SFWAs.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 01, 2014 10:20 PM  

A donut says there's no slightest hint of condemnation for this sort of hatred from...Speaker-To-SFWAs.

I neither applaud nor condemn unsourced, unlinked (and, thus, unsubstantiated) assertions. Only dishonest brokers refuse to provide same... "Bob Sacamano."

Nothing about the schoolgirls sexually enslaved in the name of Allah? Nothing about the crucifixions (referenced and sourced earlier), in the name of Allah? See this face? This is my shocked face.

Anonymous Bob Sacamano May 02, 2014 12:42 AM  

"I neither applaud nor condemn unsourced, unlinked (and, thus, unsubstantiated) assertions. Only dishonest brokers refuse to provide same."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/17/13321512-attacks-on-us-mosques-prompt-muslim-security-concerns?lite


I give you kudos for endorsing such savage behavior by "civilized" peoples rather outright denouncing these actions, as if they were "made up". Now go to church on Sunday and praise to Jesus that your religion is "superior" to other religions.


"Nothing about the schoolgirls sexually enslaved in the name of Allah? Nothing about the crucifixions (referenced and sourced earlier), in the name of Allah?"

Yes, the perverted version of Islam. What, you think these barbaric acts represent an entire faith? Hardly.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 02, 2014 1:07 AM  

I give you kudos for endorsing such savage behavior by "civilized" peoples

Liar. Fail.

Now go to church on Sunday and praise to Jesus that your religion is "superior" to other religions.

You have no clue whatsoever as to the nature of my faith, or even if I in fact have one. Fail.

Yes, the perverted version of Islam.

A "perverted version" adhered to (and promulgated) by millions of claimants to the (so-called) "religion of peace," worldwide. Fail.

How humiliating... for you.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 02, 2014 1:28 AM  

Five bucks says there's no slightest hint of condemnation for this sort of hatred and intolerance anywhere on ANY of the blog sites or Twitter feeds authored by Scalzi, Hines, Jemisin, Kowal, McGuire or the Twin Tor Toadlings, as of the time/date stamp of this this posting. Any takers...?

... annnnnnnnnnnnnd, hearkening back to the original point: a quick check-through of the aforementioned reveals that I scored a flawless 7 for 7. Quelle surprise.

Anonymous Bob Sacamano May 02, 2014 6:19 AM  

I provided several instances of anti-Christian behavior. Your response? "Liar, fail". Most assuredly, you are not a Christian. And if you don't embrace any faith, well, the Dread Ilk don't take kindly to atheists.


Seek wisdom, my friend...

James 1:5--"If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking."

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 02, 2014 6:29 AM  

I provided several instances of anti-Christian behavior. Your response? "Liar, fail".

You baldly stated that I "endorsed savage behavior by 'civilized' peoples." This was, and is, a lie; that makes you, sadly, a liar. Humiliating, I know, to have that pointed out, incontrovertibly, in front of everyone else assembled... but: no one's fault your own, ultimately. Cope. Deal.

Most assuredly, you are not a Christian.

Most assuredly, you pulled that, steaming, out from your hindquarters. Keep it; I have neither need nor use for it.

Seek wisdom

Seek the ability to argue logically, and to support your contentions honestly. At present, demonstrably, you are capable of neither.

Anonymous Bob Sacamano May 02, 2014 8:31 PM  

Everyone, let’s welcome back AnonAgain!


“You baldly stated that I "endorsed savage behavior by 'civilized' peoples."

You pronounce that Scalzi and company lack any moral compass for their refusal to denounce the words of a fanatical Muslim, then proceed to remain noticeably silent when inhumane, violent, and anti-Christian actions are undertaken against members of the Islamic faith. You are a hypocrite and a liar who wholeheartedly endorses savagery. I even provided the link as requested as proof and...still silence on your part. Listen, we get it. You despise Islam.

A Christian proudly states their faith. A Christian without hesitation calls out against sin. You are not a Christian. Please seek forgiveness.


“Seek the ability to argue logically, and to support your contentions honestly. At present, demonstrably, you are capable of neither.”

Indeed, the telltale sign that AnonAgain is back. Have the last word...we know you will. You can’t help yourself, you are an attention whore.


“Humiliating, I know, to have that pointed out, incontrovertibly, in front of everyone else assembled.”

Another indication the poster is AnonAgain. Delusional and irrational. Great combination.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 02, 2014 11:28 PM  

You are a hypocrite and a liar who wholeheartedly endorses savagery.

Liar.

You are not a Christian.

Liar.

Another indication the poster is AnonAgain.

Liar.

That's all you get. That's all you merit.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 02, 2014 11:39 PM  

Vox, you can easily determine whether or not I am, in fact, "AnonAgain"; or whether I have ever posted here under any I.D. other than "Speaker-To-SFWAs"; or whether, in fact, I have ever posted here from any other ISP or computer. If either of these statements are true, then please do reveal them to be so, by all means.

I have no reason to fear the truth.

Anonymous Speaker-To-SFWAs May 03, 2014 2:26 AM  

ADDENDUM: I am also perfectly happy and willing to share any personal information with Vox, via e-mail, the better that he might most readily ascertain, to his complete satisfaction, that I am both who and what I say I am.

I am sending him my personal e-mail, to use (or not) for contact, as he sees fit.

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