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Thursday, May 15, 2014

ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS

Today we are officially announcing the publication of ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS, a curriculum created by Dr. Sarah Salviander, a research scientist whose areas of particular interest are quasars and supermassive black holes. She is a research scientist at the University of Texas, is one of the authors of "Evolution of the Black Hole Mass – Galaxy Bulge Relationship for Quasars in the Sloan Digital Sky Survey Data Release 7" and "Narrow Emission Lines as Surrogates for σ * in Low- to Moderate-z QSOs" in addition to many other scientific papers, and teaches classes as a visiting professor of physics at Southwestern University. Dr. Salviander describes the new curriculum at Castalia House:

"Look around the web for a high-quality, modern-science astronomy homeschool course and you won’t find much. There are a handful of scripture-based astronomy courses that seem to cover little more than the seasons and motions of the night sky, and one very expensive software-based curriculum. I realized there was a need for a comprehensive, modern, and affordable astronomy homeschool curriculum, and set out to develop one based on my years of teaching astronomy at the university level. A couple of years ago, I mentioned this in an offhand way to Vox Day; it turns out Vox had been contemplating offering a series of affordable, electronically-available homeschool curricula, and so we began to discuss the possibility of making astrophysics the first of many such courses."

 So we are pleased to announce ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS, the first offering in the Castalia Homeschool line. The curriculum is available only through the Castalia House store and costs less than $60.00. No further expenditures are necessary for the course as the textbook is available online, although we recently received permission to publish the primary textbook and will soon offer it accordingly at an affordable price. Our objective is to keep the price of all curricula under $100.

The curriculum is designed for students aged 13+. It has been described as "a top-notch astronomy curriculum" by Laurie Bluedorn, author of Trivium Pursuit. As per suggestions from the readers of this blog, sample PDFs from all four books of the curriculum have been made available for free download on the relevant product listing of the Castalia House store. If you are, or if you know, a homeschool mother of teenagers now preparing the fall course schedule, I encourage you to take a close look at ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS and consider using it for the next school year.

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126 Comments:

Blogger IM2L844 May 15, 2014 9:16 AM  

I have to say it's given me pleasure to witness the unfolding of this. I may just get it for myself.

Blogger Nate May 15, 2014 9:20 AM  

Big day. Congrats to everyone involved.

Anonymous Daniel May 15, 2014 9:27 AM  

Rock on, Stickwick! I'm not the target audience, but just having bought and read the biblical supplement last week, it is obvious that this thing has at least two secondary audiences: amateur astronomers and science fiction writers.

(And a third one, for what it is worth though that may be a fairly limited market: science-based metaphysicist redneck Christian demimystics.)

Anonymous Josh May 15, 2014 9:34 AM  

Congrats y'all.

I'm sure the ilk have a number of prospective students.

Anonymous bob k. mando May 15, 2014 9:41 AM  

i'm a Luddite.

gimme a heads up when the dead tree comes out.

Anonymous MendoScot May 15, 2014 9:42 AM  

Congratulations, Stickwick! I'll run it by my teenager, see if she bites. A question though, is the astronomy section compatible with Southern latitudes (~33°S)?

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 9:51 AM  

gimme a heads up when the dead tree comes out.

It's pdf. As in, the format targeted for printing. I'd understand why you'd want a novel to look nice and professional in your bookshelf, because it's going to look pretty much the same after you're through with it. But why would you pay so much extra for a book that you're just going to write notes all over the first time you take the course?

Anonymous Salt May 15, 2014 9:52 AM  

Only having looked at the Tables of Contents, elements of this course appear relevant to Celestial Navigation, especially in understanding Tables such as H.O. 229 or 249 and their use with a sextant, UTC (formerly Zulu time), running fixes, etc.

Congrats Stickwick.

Anonymous Anonymous May 15, 2014 9:53 AM  

This is great! My daughter is finishing her second year of biology next year so that she can take the AP test but this is a definite consideration for her senior year. I'll get the word out to my homeschooling friends.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 15, 2014 9:55 AM  

I'm curious is there any new old school, hard science fiction talent on the horizon? A new Larry Niven or James Hogan?

Anonymous Harold Carper May 15, 2014 10:02 AM  

Excellent! Congratulations to both Sarah and Castalia House.

Anonymous Curlytop May 15, 2014 10:17 AM  

Congratulations, Stickwick! I have been waiting patiently for this ever since you mentioned it on this blog. I have several home educating families who have asked me to keep them posted on your progress. Will pass this link onto them as well as my Home educating group. Thank you for sharing your expertise in this field to the home-educating community.

Anonymous Jeanne May 15, 2014 10:26 AM  

Let me just say that I was one of the early reviewers for this curriculum and it is fantastic! $60.00 for this is a damn good deal. I would expect to have to pay much more for what you get. It is put together so well! This is a 5 star homeschooling science curriculum, and those are not easy to come by, especially at this price.

Blogger Nate May 15, 2014 10:30 AM  

now we just have to sit and wait for the first review one star review that dismisses the whole curriculum because the planet on the cover is obviously mars and mars doesn't have rings and also the light is reflecting at the wrong angle for mars as well.

Anonymous Anonymous May 15, 2014 10:33 AM  

I did a quick search, and it looks like you can get a 500-page PDF printed and coil-bound for $20 or less. That'd make the total cost of the main student book $40 or less, which is still very reasonable.

Anonymous VD May 15, 2014 10:41 AM  

gimme a heads up when the dead tree comes out.

It won't any time soon. It doesn't make any sense from a price perspective. I'm not saying we never will; if it gets broadly adopted we will almost have to do so. But at the moment, buying it and taking the file to a Kinkos is probably your best bet.

Anonymous Josh May 15, 2014 10:56 AM  

So...a misogynist anti-science sexist is editing and publishing a SCIENCE textbook written by a FEMALE SCIENTIST?

Verily, rabbit heads will explode upon hearing this news.

Anonymous bob k. mando May 15, 2014 10:58 AM  

Markku May 15, 2014 9:51 AM
But why would you pay so much extra for a book that you're just going to write notes all over the first time you take the course?




what part of "I'm a Luddite" are you failing to understand? seems pretty straightforward to me.

now if you'll excuse me, i need to go put some feed in the hamster farm that's powering my electrical generator.

Anonymous Josh May 15, 2014 11:03 AM  

I'm pretty sure most homeschoolers would rather have the pdf and print it out.

Blogger Nate May 15, 2014 11:06 AM  

"what part of "I'm a Luddite" are you failing to understand? seems pretty straightforward to me."

Luddite perhaps... but for crying out loud we have had "print" buttons in our OS's for going on 50 years now.

print the damned thing yourself... three hole punch it.. and put it in a 99 cent 3 ring binder.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 11:17 AM  

what part of "I'm a Luddite" are you failing to understand?

Well, typically one is a Luddite with respect to a book for at least one of two reasons:

1) A physical book is a stylistic statement, for its quaintness. Visitors don't, after all, see your e-book library.
2) Some consider it more comfortable to read, due to its size and resolution.

But for a textbook with exercises, 1 doesn't really apply. I mean, surely you don't put your used workbooks on your bookshelf? And for number two, the format is precisely chosen to be pdf because we expect most customers to print it. Which leads to advantage number 2 exactly like if you bought it in the physical form in the first place.

No, what I suspect is that you wouldn't be in the target audience anyway. You just want to grandstand in favor of physical books, in the hope that we'll be more inclined to do hardcopies of books that you DO intend to buy.

I could be wrong, but there it is.

Blogger Lud VanB May 15, 2014 11:17 AM  

what exactly is the use of a biblical supplement to an astronomy/astrophysics course?

Blogger Russell May 15, 2014 11:22 AM  

Congratulations to both Sarah and Castalia House!

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 11:23 AM  

what exactly is the use of a biblical supplement to an astronomy/astrophysics course?

It's for Christian homeschoolers (that is, most of them) who want to be able to answer the children's inevitable questions about how this all fits in with the Bible. The other books don't refer to any religious things at all, and this is by design; if you hold the standard secular view, then you simply don't purchase the Biblical supplement, and then there is no Christianity to bother you. That's why we made it a separate book.

But since I'm in the mood for voicing suspicions, I suspect that your sensibilities are still offended by the fact that we offer it at all.

Blogger JDC May 15, 2014 11:31 AM  

Good question Lud - because as every reasonable and practical person knows as axiomatic truth - no Christian has ever, in the history of time, been versed in science.

Except for Moses Maimonides, Isaac Newton, Hugh Ross, Gerald Schroeder, John Philoponus, Rabanus Maurus, Leo the Mathematician, William of Conches, Roger Bacon, William of Ockham, Nicolaus Copernicus, Michael Servetus, Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Robert Boyle, Gottfried Leibniz, Mary Anning, Gregor Mendel, Louis Pasteur, Lord Kelvin, George Washington Carver, Max Planck, Nicola Cabibbo, Mary Higby Schweitzer...and these are only the individuals I (in my limited Christian non-science mind) have read at one time.

But aside from these good people, no Christian has ever been able to do science.

Blogger JDC May 15, 2014 11:36 AM  

Congrats - I look forward to digging into this, and preparing lessons for the little ones. The rabbits will squeal, and Bill Nye and those who follow his views will continue to decry Christianity as the death knell of science while simultaneously demonstrating willful misunderstandings about the Christian faith.

Blogger Lud VanB May 15, 2014 12:01 PM  

"But since I'm in the mood for voicing suspicions, I suspect that your sensibilities are still offended by the fact that we offer it at all."

no...I was merely curious as to why it was in a separate volume and now I know.

Anonymous Edjamacator May 15, 2014 12:03 PM  

Taking a look, too. Sounds good. Mine is much too young now, but will keep the info.

Blogger Lud VanB May 15, 2014 12:05 PM  

"Good question Lud - because as every reasonable and practical person knows as axiomatic truth - no Christian has ever, in the history of time, been versed in science."

I was not making any such allegation. Many of the greatest minds in the various fields of science were deeply religious people. What made them great however was that they had the honesty not to try and force a square peg into a round hole simply because the round hole happened to be a cherished book to them.

Anonymous Vidad May 15, 2014 12:16 PM  

BRAVO!!!

Anonymous Incurvatus May 15, 2014 12:17 PM  

I still marvel at Dr. Russell Humphrey's accurately predicting the magnetic field strength of Mercury, Uranus, Mars, Pluto, and Neptune before they were measured by spacecraft. (Pluto won't be verified by New Horizons until 2015). Humphrey's model? Gen 1 and 2 Peter 3: Planets were formed out of water. He calculated the field which would exist if the mass of the planet started out as water and all the tiny magnetic fields of the H2O molecules were aligned.
Prediction + observations = Science.

Anonymous JohnR May 15, 2014 12:20 PM  

Why the requirement for separate lab/activity book and exam book for each child?

Won't most people simply buy it and share amongst the children as they are able to study the curriculum?

A co-op teacher could just buy the lab/activity book and print it out and charge each child the cost of printing or for testing, just print out the test.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 15, 2014 12:22 PM  

Astronomy Domine!

O-le!

Blogger JDC May 15, 2014 12:30 PM  

I was not making any such allegation.

My assumption was wrong and I apologize.

Anonymous JI May 15, 2014 12:34 PM  

Sounds good. My daughter is 13 and has nothing like this in school. I majored in Astronomy as an undergrad (got out of the field after that), so have been interested in finding something like this to share with her. And, like Dr. Salviander said, there really wasn't anything out there that was quite right. Thanks for bringing this out, Vox.

Anonymous VD May 15, 2014 12:38 PM  

Why the requirement for separate lab/activity book and exam book for each child?

So that we can make money. This is one of the best and least expensive curricula available and you're going to complain that it's not even cheaper? Seriously?

Won't most people simply buy it and share amongst the children as they are able to study the curriculum?

Not if they intend to abide by our terms.

A co-op teacher could just buy the lab/activity book and print it out and charge each child the cost of printing or for testing, just print out the test.

Really? Wow, we never thought of that possibility! We should probably DRM it!

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 12:40 PM  

Thanks for the comments, all.

MendoScot: A question though, is the astronomy section compatible with Southern latitudes (~33°S)?

Off the top of my head, there are two lab activities that would need to be changed for the Southern Hemisphere. If there's some interest, I can go ahead and try to work something out for those activities.

Josh: So...a misogynist anti-science sexist is editing and publishing a SCIENCE textbook written by a FEMALE SCIENTIST?

Heh. I gotta say, Vox has always taken me seriously as a scientist and a commenter here, and has been incredibly supportive throughout the development of the curriculum. Ironically, Vox has treated me more like an "equal" than a lot of people who worship at the altar of equality.

JDC: Good question Lud - because as every reasonable and practical person knows as axiomatic truth - no Christian has ever, in the history of time, been versed in science.

… Gerald Schroeder …


Your point is well made, but just FYI Schroeder is Jewish.

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 12:42 PM  

Lud VanB: What made them great however was that they had the honesty not to try and force a square peg into a round hole simply because the round hole happened to be a cherished book to them.

No, my silly little friend, that's not what made them great. You want to believe that they were scientists six days a week and Christian only on Sunday, but the undeniable fact is that all of those scientists were motivated by their Christian faith to search for God's truth. Take, for instance, two of the greatest scientists of all time. Newton was so devoted to his faith that he viewed his scientific work as a form of true worship; and Lemaître, father of the big bang, liked his hypothesis because it was consistent with Genesis.

Anonymous WaterBoy May 15, 2014 12:44 PM  

Congrats, y'all!

Blogger JDC May 15, 2014 12:46 PM  

Your point is well made, but just FYI Schroeder is Jewish.

I read "The Hidden Face of God" and "The Science of God," - one would think I would have caught my own error. When Schroeder writes, "A single consciousness, an all-encompassing wisdom pervades the universe," I guess I was left out of the wisdom part.

Anonymous VD May 15, 2014 12:51 PM  

Ironically, Vox has treated me more like an "equal" than a lot of people who worship at the altar of equality.

Stickwick, shhhh! They'll take my He Man Woman Haters Club card away!

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 12:51 PM  

JDC: I read "The Hidden Face of God" and "The Science of God," - one would think I would have caught my own error.

Meh, no biggie. By the way, I highly recommend his latest book, God According to God. Among many interesting points, Schroeder brings the Book of John into the discussion to show that the Bible says the laws of nature predate the universe.

Blogger Leatherwing May 15, 2014 1:00 PM  

what part of "I'm a Luddite" are you failing to understand? seems pretty straightforward to me.

Unless Vox transcribed that message from a strip of paper he unrolled from the leg of a carrier pigeon, you are a bad Luddite.

Blogger Lud VanB May 15, 2014 1:10 PM  

"No, my silly little friend, that's not what made them great. You want to believe that they were scientists six days a week and Christian only on Sunday, but the undeniable fact is that all of those scientists were motivated by their Christian faith to search for God's truth. Take, for instance, two of the greatest scientists of all time. Newton was so devoted to his faith that he viewed his scientific work as a form of true worship; and Lemaître, father of the big bang, liked his hypothesis because it was consistent with Genesis. "

No they were Christians 7 days a week but as men of science they understood that trying to fit the observable universe into a literal interpretation of the bible while remaining honest about their findings was simply not possible and so they had the moral fortitude to recognize that the bible was not a history book but rather a collection of parables and allegories designed to carry a message with which they agreed. That was also the position of both Lyell and Darwin btw.

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 1:20 PM  

VD: Stickwick, shhhh! They'll take my He Man Woman Haters Club card away!

Which would, no doubt, be even more devastating than being expelled from the SFWA.

Lud VanB: No they were Christians 7 days a week but as men of science they understood that trying to fit the observable universe into a literal interpretation of the bible while remaining honest about their findings was simply not possible and so they had the moral fortitude to recognize that the bible was not a history book but rather a collection of parables and allegories designed to carry a message with which they agreed.

LOL. Okay, Lud, I'll play along. Please cite your evidence for this claim.

Blogger IM2L844 May 15, 2014 1:39 PM  

...and these are only the individuals I (in my limited Christian non-science mind) have read at one time.

I know I bring this up a couple times a year, but IMHO, if you haven't read Blaise Pascal, who, by the way, was home-schooled, you're missing out, JDC.

Anonymous bob k. mando May 15, 2014 1:41 PM  

Markku May 15, 2014 11:17 AM
Visitors don't, after all, see your e-book library.



i can't remember the last time a visitor saw my library. because it's in storage.


Markku May 15, 2014 11:17 AM
No, what I suspect is that you wouldn't be in the target audience anyway. You just want to grandstand in favor of physical books, in the hope that we'll be more inclined to do hardcopies of books that you DO intend to buy.

I could be wrong, but there it is.



i've never taken any courses in astronomy and i've been given to understand from previous discussion that there's some decent math in the books as well.

given my natural curiosity ( was reading extensively in encyclopedias and dictionaries by 6 ), why WOULDN'T i be in the target audience?


am i hoping that dead tree publishing becomes a regular facet of Castalia house product? sure.

when you spend a lot of time on the road the convenience and portability and note taking ability and readability for a paper book is hard to beat.

i damn sure don't want to try reading that on my phone.



Nate May 15, 2014 11:06 AM
print the damned thing yourself... three hole punch it.. and put it in a 99 cent 3 ring binder.



alliteratively, i'm also lazy.




Josh May 15, 2014 10:56 AM
So...a misogynist anti-science sexist is editing and publishing a SCIENCE textbook written by a FEMALE SCIENTIST?



you forgot 'racist'.

being as Stickwick is nominally white while Vox is Nipponese ( which explains why he's so short ) or Mex depending on how he feels today, he can still be racist against her.



Leatherwing May 15, 2014 1:00 PM
you are a bad Luddite.



like the Amish ( whom i've seen using gas powered lawn mowers ), it's not that i don't progress ...

it's just that i'm way, WAY behind you guys.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 2:01 PM  

i damn sure don't want to try reading that on my phone.

Unlike the others, this one is intended to be either printed, or read with a LARGE reader. But still preferably printed.

So, the hard copies of the other books are still coming, and in the works at this very moment, but probably not of this book. Because the percentage of people whose needs aren't satisfied with either self-printed, or printed in a cheap print-on-demand service copy, and who are willing to fork out the extra money, is probably so small.

Anonymous Wendy May 15, 2014 2:13 PM  

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of rabbits (sic) suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."

Blogger WarKicker May 15, 2014 2:55 PM  

Congrats Stickwick! Buying the curriculum this evening for my teenager when I get home from work.

Blogger JartStar May 15, 2014 3:02 PM  

Lud,

To correct a common misunderstanding of the term “read the Bible literally” doesn’t mean you force your framework of reading on the text as everything in the Bible is literal historical reporting as in you think the parable of the prodigal son is literal history told by Jesus and you wonder what the son’s name was.

A literal reading of the Bible is reading the parts of the books described as history as history, allegory as allegory, parables as parables, etc.

If you approach the Bible with the framework that it is all allegory, metaphors, and parables (even the history) then _you_ are at fault by forcing your preconceived framework on it. In this instance the post-Enlightenment Rationalism view of the Bible (it’s all allegory and myth) is just as guilty as the Medieval “Four Senses” reading for being flawed, but for different reasons.

Blogger Outlaw X May 15, 2014 3:02 PM  

That is excellent. The fact that 26 Percent of Americans Say the Sun Revolves Around the Earth is a sad state of affairs. I would like to thank Castalia House and Dr. Sarah Salviander actually making a positive effort to properly educate our children. They are our the future. Not properly educating our children is a crime.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco May 15, 2014 3:10 PM  

"But why would you pay so much extra for a book that you're just going to write notes all over the first time you take the course?"

Because it's the best way to read any book: How to Mark a Book.

Anonymous Incurvatus May 15, 2014 3:37 PM  

JartStar - great point. An accurate term to describe it is "literalistic." When Jesus said, "If your eye offends thee, pluck it out," the literalistic reader demands that eyes be plucked out.

The best heuristic to read the Bible is to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Let clear passages interpret difficult ones. Respect context, context, context. Let the New Testament explain the Old. Read history as history, poetry as poetry, prophecy as prophecy. Don't let descriptive texts turn into prescriptive texts. (Such as God commanding the Israelites to do XYZ means all of humanity must therefore do XYZ.) Understand the Bible is 66 books with ultimately one Author.

Anonymous Abraham Lincoln May 15, 2014 3:42 PM  

"Off the top of my head, there are two lab activities that would need to be changed for the Southern Hemisphere."

The North wins again!

Will QM: The Programmed Mind ever be in the CH store?

Anonymous charles May 15, 2014 3:56 PM  

I am an adult, and am inclined to get it for myself.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 3:56 PM  

No they were Christians 7 days a week but as men of science they understood that trying to fit the observable universe into a literal interpretation of the bible while remaining honest about their findings was simply not possible and so they had the moral fortitude to recognize that the bible was not a history book but rather a collection of parables and allegories designed to carry a message with which they agreed.

Spoilers follow. Consider yourself warned.

Seriously. Avert your eyes now, the easily spoiled!

...

...


Stickwick isn't a Young Earth Creationist either.

You see, literal vs. non-literal is usually a false dilemma. Whoever uses those words, usually tries to present the options as either every single sentence in the Bible being intended to be read in the literal sense, or else it's all just men writing about their flawed understanding of this "god" they've heard from their predecessors.

But there is a middle ground: That some of it is literal, some of it is metaphorical and some of it is poetic language. And you figure out which it is exactly like you'd figure it out if you were provided whatever random text, and asked that same question.

Even any given newspaper is likely to contain both literal and metaphorical language, and you'll have no problem distinguishing between the two. Nor would you be at all inclined to ask the question, "do I read this newspaper metaphorically or literally?"

The only problem with the Bible is that we are so far removed from the time of its writing, that we have a harder time noticing the cues.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 4:00 PM  

Will QM: The Programmed Mind ever be in the CH store?

Whether or not to enroll a book in the Kindle Select program, is always decided for a window of three next months. It requires Amazon exclusivity for all electronic editions for that time, but gives the publisher certain benefits.

When the sales dashboard tells us that those benefits are no longer worth the exclusivity, we will then take it out of the program.

However, if you simply wish to have the .epub file of the book, and you don't have an absolute principle of never giving your money to Amazon, then you'll get the .epub free of charge by purchasing the Kindle edition and emailing us the receipt.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 4:02 PM  

Emailing to books@castaliahouse.com , that is.

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 4:28 PM  

Excellent points, JartStar and Markku, about the meaning of "literal" in the context of exegesis.

Markku: The only problem with the Bible is that we are so far removed from the time of its writing, that we have a harder time noticing the cues.

What makes it especially difficult is that ancient languages have far fewer words than modern English. Ancient Hebrew, for instance, only had a few thousand words. Compare with modern English, which has approximately a million. Establishing context is extremely important in deciphering the cues; but, as you pointed out, we're about 3500 years removed from the time of writing of Genesis.

charles: I am an adult, and am inclined to get it for myself.

Great! I encourage any adult who is interested in learning astronomy and astrophysics to use the curriculum. It's less expensive -- and probably more rigorous -- than a community college course.

Blogger Clint May 15, 2014 4:41 PM  

Congrats to Stickwick for a great curriculum. Great timing for us, as my 17 year old daughter has been asking to take an astronomy course. Looks like this will be in our near future.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 5:00 PM  

I am approaching 60, and I plan to buy a copy.

Also for my girlfriend. She is planning to take it to the local Home School groups that she used and to the local Christian School groups here in the Austin / Round Rock area.

Her son went to UT and got caught up in the Dawkins craze. As I get to know him better I think things like this will make it easier to educate him again that there is not a conflict between science and God.

And also get what seems to be a good course in to the hands of those who can use it best.

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 5:17 PM  

Pinakeli, I appreciate the effort to spread the curriculum around.

You could direct your GF's son to my ministry's website, SixDay Science, where I have quite a bit of material on the Bible and modern science. Also, I am available to give science and faith talks at local churches in the Austin area. In fact, I'm giving a couple of talks at a Ratio Christi apologetics conference in late September at Austin Ridge Bible Church, so keep an eye out and maybe y'all want to sign up to attend.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 5:25 PM  

@Stickwick

Definitely! When I told her about you posting here and some of our chats she really wants to meet you if possible. I think she wants to get some advice on how to approach her son on this.

She was a lot less concerned when she finally told me that Dawkins reached him and I laughed out loud.

And BTW, I just bought all four and have finished downloading them. I expect to start reading next week after I get back from my dad's this weekend.

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 5:39 PM  

Pinakeli -- and any folks in the Austin area -- I am happy to meet with you. In fact, if anyone wants to arrange a local Ilk science-and-faith get-together, let me know. My email address is on my website.

She was a lot less concerned when she finally told me that Dawkins reached him and I laughed out loud.

Heh, yeah. As Vox said in his book, The Irrational Atheist, these guys are the clowns of reason. I can certainly help disabuse the young man of any silly notions he might have gotten from Dawkins about physics/astronomy and faith.

And BTW, I just bought all four and have finished downloading them. I expect to start reading next week after I get back from my dad's this weekend.

Super! Thanks to all who have downloaded the curriculum so far!

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 5:48 PM  

I think she wants to get some advice on how to approach her son on this.

I'd say, ask the son to compose his best shot for the Dawkins world view, if he indeed thinks that is is more likely to be true than the Christian one. Make a case in the form of text. Both sides have permission to seek whatever assistance from third-party sources.

And reversing the burden of proof and requiring the Christian side to make the case instead is an admission of agnosticism instead, Not compatible with Dawkins' position, who claims to have probability on his side. A legitimate play, but at least then we'll know where he stands.

Either he goes on record to set himself against Dawkins and profess agnosticism, or else he should be willing to defend his view.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 5:49 PM  

We've only been dating six months, so I don't know here kids that well yet. Both our dads are asking when the wedding will be, so I think we have approval from both sides if we decide that way.

I think we may just have to arrange such a get together. It sounds like it would be a lot of fun. If others of the Ilk in the Austin area are interested I'll see about arranging a meeting place.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 5:51 PM  

However, since we also claim to have probability on our side, it is legitimate to ask us to make arguments also. But what is not legitimate for someone who holds Dawkins' position, is to demand that we are the only ones who make positive arguments. Only the true agnostic can ask that.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 5:56 PM  

Markku,

I think her problem is more along the lines of not thinking on her feet like I do. She thinks of a come back about a day later. I have the advantage of having worked the show floor at trade and air shows, as well as live radio and improv comedy. I keep telling her, just know your subject, and knock down his hero first. Make him defend his position be default.

I think once he sees that science and God are not antagonists, only some of the more insecure practitioners are, he will start to think about his early training.

If I'm with her when this come up I think we will be a lot better prepared. I did get her a copy of TIA a few months ago and she finally got up the nerve to start it.

Anonymous Uncle Fester May 15, 2014 5:57 PM  

I'd be interested in a get-together of the Texas Ilk.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 5:59 PM  

I think her problem is more along the lines of not thinking on her feet like I do.

Precisely why I suggest composing the case as text, with unlimited time and third-party support. After all, the truth is what it is, independent of how quickly a particular person happens to think on his feet.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 6:02 PM  

And refusal to do so, considering that fact, sounds suspiciously like not really believing the facts are what one claims them to be, but simply of hedging one's bets on the fact that one is better at rhetoric than the opponent.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 6:22 PM  

I think she is just scared. It was quite a shock to her last year when he told her. It led to her coming back to the Sunday School class for seniors where we met. I suggested she read TIA and Gerald Schroeder. She still tells people how amazed she is to meet someone who read Schroeder at a Baptist Church.

I told her that when I felt God to move me to bring it up, or if it comes up in conversation with him I will jump in and help. He is young and smart. I think he will come around.

Then we need to work on his wife.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 6:25 PM  

And I noticed no Facebook share button on the Castialia site, so I had to make a post by hand. Going to try to talk about this on the show if we can ever get a studio operational again. (Long story, corruption within IRN, some are going to jail).

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 6:29 PM  

And I noticed no Facebook share button on the Castialia site

That sounds so millennial.

CH is robustly GenX.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 6:38 PM  

I think she is just scared

The Greg Koukl strategy is of supreme importance.

Don't panic; ask questions to gather information, then find answers and respond at your leisure. Truth does not depend on how quickly you can answer a question.

While you don't have your response ready yet, just ask more questions and gather more information. Chances are that by the time you're ready, you'll have plenty of delicious contradictions to address, in addition to your responses.

But first of all, don't panic. Especially the questions "what do you mean by that?" and "how did you come to that conclusion?" are extremely useful.

Blogger Pinakeli May 15, 2014 6:55 PM  

Markku May 15, 2014 6:29 PM

And I noticed no Facebook share button on the Castialia site

That sounds so millennial.

CH is robustly GenX.


Hey! We old farts have to talk to each other so we can gang up on the youngsters when they are wrong!

Besides, any publicity is good, right?

Anonymous Harsh May 15, 2014 7:08 PM  

LOL. Okay, Lud, I'll play along. Please cite your evidence for this claim.

You know he won't. Lud lobs hand grenades and runs away like the coward he is.

Blogger Markku May 15, 2014 7:11 PM  

runs away like the coward he is.

In his defense, he's French.

Anonymous JK May 15, 2014 7:19 PM  

Stickwick,
I am in the southern hemisphere (latitude 29) so I too would appreciate an update if you find the time.
Started with two of my kids and so far it is great. Cheers.

Anonymous Dave May 15, 2014 7:21 PM  

I'm in agreement with Charles: I am an adult, and am inclined to get it for myself.

I have no experience with homeschooling courses however I presume most homeschoolers set their own pace of study. When you say this is a 36-week course approximately how many hours of classwork/study would you estimate?

Anonymous kh123 May 15, 2014 8:07 PM  

"...lobs hand grenades and runs..."

Physics, not physical impossibilities.

Anonymous kh123 May 15, 2014 8:12 PM  

...Perhaps Lud ought to buy the course if he's that invested in critiquing any sort of Christian cosmological framework. Money where the mouth is, as the saying goes.

Anonymous Stickwick May 15, 2014 8:47 PM  

Harsh: You know he won't. Lud lobs hand grenades and runs away like the coward he is.

Yeah, figures, but I was actually hoping he'd try to come up with something.

Dave: When you say this is a 36-week course approximately how many hours of classwork/study would you estimate?

It's roughly one hour per day, assuming a 5-day study week.

Blogger Lud VanB May 15, 2014 10:23 PM  

Apologies for my absence, the French coward (apparently?) has returned...so...lets see now.

"You see, literal vs. non-literal is usually a false dilemma. Whoever uses those words, usually tries to present the options as either every single sentence in the Bible being intended to be read in the literal sense, or else it's all just men writing about their flawed understanding of this "god" they've heard from their predecessors."

well it all depends on who you talk to I suppose. For the Kent Hovinds and Ken Hams of this world, every single word of the bible is meant to be taken literally. I understand that not everyone thinks or believes as they do but even the mildest old earth creationists out there believe in parts of the bible as history that simply are not true. The exodus, the military conquest of Canaan, the book of Daniel just to name a few.

"What makes it especially difficult is that ancient languages have far fewer words than modern English. Ancient Hebrew, for instance, only had a few thousand words. Compare with modern English, which has approximately a million. Establishing context is extremely important in deciphering the cues; but, as you pointed out, we're about 3500 years removed from the time of writing of Genesis. "

why would that matter? the stories of the book of Genesis are complete nonsense when taken literally. From the creation to the global flood, to the tower of Babel to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah including the completely ridiculous long ages of many of the protagonists of those stories...they only make sense as fiction. Otherwise, it like picking up a Spiderman movie thinking you re watching a documentary.

Blogger Beau May 15, 2014 11:06 PM  

Congratulations Stickwick and Castalia House.

Anonymous kh123 May 15, 2014 11:10 PM  

...And look, the post even provides a link to purchase said publication. There it is. One click away. Money, mouth.... meet the ease of internet purchasing.

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 2:04 AM  

One question I've not seen asked on this thread: anyone know of a link to Sarah Salviander's biography? ("Doctors" completed medical school and earned M.D.s; she only has a Ph.D.)

I am mildly curious if this woman follows my general guideline of what to expect when a woman sports post-baccalaureate schooling ("Education" degrees not counting as education at all IMO, at any level). That is, "a master's = not much of a family, and a Ph.D. = not much of a family". I'll go out on a limb here and predict directly that she is below replacement level reproductively, e.g., bore less than 3 children.

P.S. I'm not against Castalia House offering homeschooling products for sale, quite the opposite. My two preschoolers (22 months) are going to be homeschooled, and will need some more materials soon. A phonics-based help with reading is something we'd buy pretty quickly.

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 2:27 AM  

Sorry. That's "a Ph.D. (usually) means NO family".

Anonymous Strange Aeons May 16, 2014 2:38 AM  

Hi Stickwick -
In the few years I've been quietly lurking on VP, I've always enjoyed your input. I'm glad to see you have written this book, but was wondering if you had written anything else geared more towards the adult whose knowledge of astrophysics is limited but finds the subject interesting? To date I've only read Hugh Ross' book ("Why the Universe is the Way it is") and random astronomy-related articles here and there. I am among those who prefer dead trees, but am not opposed to buying a file and taking it to Kinko's if necessary, as Vox suggested to another commenter.

Anonymous #typical lefty May 16, 2014 2:45 AM  

She ia obviously a sock puppet. Dont yoythink this is going too car to prove ypu ha e women readers

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 2:56 AM  

Strange Aeons, I suggest you look at some of Isaac Asimov's nonfiction.

Anonymous Strange Aeons May 16, 2014 3:05 AM  

Thank you Luke, I will take that suggestion under sincere advisement and add it to the list.

Anonymous Saint Revolution May 16, 2014 3:41 AM  

Very cool.

Took astronomy in college as an elective course and always wished I would have never sold some of the coolest textbooks I owned back then. Was a great escapism from my "pragmatic" grueling triple degree curriculum.

Might buy this just as a refresher for self...and to have the books. The author apparently has the "pedigrees" and experience.

Love that cover.

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 4:40 AM  

Instrumental video for the astronomy lovers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MyaLePtcMM

(Enya's "Aldebaran" set to breathtaking deep space images from the Hubble Telescope)

Anonymous Stickwick May 16, 2014 8:09 AM  

Luke: One question I've not seen asked on this thread: anyone know of a link to Sarah Salviander's biography? ("Doctors" completed medical school and earned M.D.s; she only has a Ph.D.)

A physician has an M.D. "Doctor" is a title reserved for anyone with a doctorate, including a doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.).

In any case, what does it matter in terms of the quality of the product whether or not I have a family? Unless, that is, you have a personal rule against supporting any product or endeavor by a woman who has not done her Christian duty in producing a certain number of children, which is certainly your right.

I've been sufficiently forthright here at VP and at AG that most of the Ilk know what my personal story is with respect to children. If it's that important to you, you can simply ask me in a direct way.

Anonymous bob k. mando May 16, 2014 11:29 AM  

Luke May 16, 2014 2:04 AM
"Doctors" completed medical school and earned M.D.s; she only has a Ph.D.)



you're an idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate#United_States

Blogger Lud VanB May 16, 2014 2:38 PM  

"LOL. Okay, Lud, I'll play along. Please cite your evidence for this claim. "

Well in the case of Charles Lyell, who live and died a devout Christian, he often wrote about the need to separate geology from biblical narratives because they simply did not match up. IT was obvious to him that none of the geological features in England were lending themselves to a global flood in recent history (i.e. a few thousand years ago). He even had trouble accepting Darwin's view on human evolution because of his Christian beliefs but he eventually endorsed them. The bible does not allow for a long earth history. It's quite clear that its narrative confines itself to a few thousands of years at most. And yet for Lyell, his observations were showing him a world that had a rich and ancient history recorded in its features. But for all of that, he never stopped believing in the Christian message.

Anonymous kh123 May 16, 2014 5:43 PM  

With his epitaph being Gott mit uns in a reopened Orthodox plot in Kuibyshev.

For anyone wanting to see devout, read the introduction to Principles. One could argue for as blanket a model as catastrophism was, it merely carried over into its antithesis, i.e. uniformitarianism. For after all, wouldn't it be fair to say that Lyell was simply another species of the Mosaic naturalist at the time?...

Anonymous The CronoLink May 16, 2014 8:21 PM  

Congrats, Stickwick and Castalia.

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 8:55 PM  

Stickwick, I did not know that you were this "Sarah", or that the latter woman even had anything to do with the Ilk. Neither do I remember how many children you have exactly. I believe you have some, but not very many?

After seeing loads of ill-read sub-110 IQ holders of Ph.D.s in various fuzzy studies loftily call themselves "DOCTAH BLOWCEFUS", I remain steadfast in my refusal to consider anything but an M.D. graduate of a Western medical school a "doctor". That said, I respect the brains and long-focused effort it took you to get your hard-science degrees (chemist/chem E, are you?), one more than I have. That said, I am saddened by your choice of what you would have had to have made a priority during most of your 20s. There are plenty of involuntarily under-employed graduate-degree-holding chemists in the U.S. (largely male). There are too few mothers with your intelligence who bore and properly raised large families. I wish you had married, begun bearing children (>=4 at least, before age 28), and been a SAHM by 22 tops. The men whose would have been in those grad school places and job(s) you took (not saying you stole them, just didn't get BC you were in them) cannot have shifted gears and done those in your stead. And the decline in the U.S. (social and demographic) continues. Sigh.

A (closely paraphrased) quote from the liberal Phillip Longman's "The Return of Patriarchy": "Without endorsing it, a society that limits women's life choices to prostitute, nun, or married mother raising children, has happened upon a reliable way to keep up its population (and quality thereof)". I would find much value in the day that any reasonably (not even "as") qualified native-born American man (especially if married, and ESPECIALLY married with minor children) could show up in a workplace where traditional men's work is being done, and claim a woman's job. She should either be in traditional, humble woman's work, or making a home for a man (and, ideally, a family). Men can't be women, and women make lousy men no matter how they might try. We don't have enough women genuinely trying to live women's lives. (An unmarried woman working in a professional job traditionally held by men is economically a male, however attractive she might be and heterosexual her erotic tastes.)

If large enough hammers for a return to sex-role normalcy aren't voluntarily found, IMO odds are that reality will provide them soon enough. Best of all is to get off the Titanic/Lusitania/Gustloff at dockside; via lifeboat is rather less desirable; worst of all is to be swimming in cold water at night tens or hundreds of miles from shore while injured, trying to fight downward suction from the ship sinking immediately below you. (Alternatively, think of Mises' "Crack-up boom" after gross credit inflation, and the futility of attempts by governments to avoid it...)

Anonymous Stickwick May 16, 2014 9:29 PM  

So, we have one guy -- what Sheldon Cooper would call one of the "dirt people" -- who believed that the Bible didn't match up with his work. Unless you have many more such examples -- especially from the field of physics -- this is a very poor basis from which to make a blanket statement that Christian men of science realized they couldn't "fit the observable universe into a literal interpretation of the bible."

The bible does not allow for a long earth history.

So, you're effectively taking the position of the young earth creationist. This isn't the proper forum for a discussion about the age of the earth, but suffice it to say that this statement is utterly and completely wrong. If you're interested in how a literal interpretation of Genesis is in agreement with modern science, see here.

Anonymous Stickwick May 16, 2014 9:38 PM  

Luke, I'm not sure why you think I have a degree in chem -- as indicated above, I have a Ph.D. in astrophysics.

I have two daughters -- one died about a year and a half ago, the other is five months old and I am her SAHM. You are not alone in your wish that I had spent my younger years having more children, but what's done is done, and I will use my education and intelligence to minister to my fellow Christians.

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 10:09 PM  

bob k. mando May 16, 2014 11:29 AM

Luke May 16, 2014 2:04 AM
"Doctors" completed medical school and earned M.D.s; she only has a Ph.D.)


"you're an idiot. (sic)

Look! Someone else who thinks they can control my social decisions. Just because someone (not presently holding a loaded firearm to my nose) may claim a title does not mean I am compelled to recognize it. I don't enunciate aloud the word after the hyphen in hyphenated surnames or hyphenated nationalities. I consider a woman with a hyphenated surname to not really be married, to have held her fingers crossed behind her at the wedding, to have wanted her husband to be married to her, but not to be married to him, and I will not write nor speak the second part of her claimed name. Likewise, someone with a hyphenated nationality, i.e., Spixico-American, I figure them to be incompletely loyal to the nation, and round down, deeming their name to be an incomplete mathematical expression, where the hyphen is a subtraction symbol. I finish the calculation, and subtract out the "American" part, leaving them in my estimation just a foreigner, one who probably needs to go home, right now, and permanently. Ditto for chiropractors; they want the status and income with having gone to bone-doctor school and nerve-doctor school (also called "medical school + orthopedic residency + neurologist residency) without actually qualifying for admission to, and graduating from, that school and those programs. I deem them poseurs, fakes, charlatans, legal scammers, and would neither hire one, nor call them "doctor".

And, in line with this policy, if someone doesn't have an M.D. from a Western medical school and can't make my life Hades, they don't get the word "Doctor" out of me. Want to be called "doctor", go get an M.D. Otherwise, you're "Mister", "Miss", or "Mrs.". (I don't use "Ms." either.)

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 10:15 PM  

Stickwick May 16, 2014 9:38 PM

"Luke, I'm not sure why you think I have a degree in chem -- as indicated above, I have a Ph.D. in astrophysics.

I have two daughters -- one died about a year and a half ago, the other is five months old"


Sorry, point taken. I worded that poorly.

I previously thought you had a chemistry or chem eng. degree, not having connected you with the astrophysicist author of the homeschooling piece.

Also, you HAD two daughters. After one sadly died (my condolences on your loss), your state became where you have ONE daughter. (I have had millions of ancestors, but the vast, vast majority of them, all of them over 84, are dead, such that I only have that small number currently living as relatives now.)

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 10:21 PM  

Apt "Dilbert" strip on the subject of claiming, and recognizing, names.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-05-28/

(Any nonliberal males here willing to call a feminist twat who legally changed her name to Ms. Bertha AllMenArePigsAndMustDie by her chosen name? Not me...)

Anonymous Stickwick May 16, 2014 10:31 PM  

I get the feeling you're loads of fun at parties, Luke.

Anonymous Luke May 16, 2014 10:53 PM  

Stickwick May 16, 2014 10:31 PM

" I get the feeling you're loads of fun at parties, Luke."

More with guys, Stickwick. I know loads of clever-in-a-rude/crude-way jokes that males unaccompanied by their SOs find amusing. Women, mainly just geekettes (whom I can impress with science/history chat). I'm unremarkable in appearance, so the sorority majors and I never had much to say to each other.

Blogger Lud VanB May 17, 2014 1:04 AM  

"So, we have one guy -- what Sheldon Cooper would call one of the "dirt people" -- who believed that the Bible didn't match up with his work"."

not believed...OBSERVED...observed among other things that none of the geology of England contained the record of a global flood within its features. That those features were the result of slow processes of transformation that had been ongoing since long before humans ever appeared on earth. the last time large parts of Britain was underwater was over 55 million years ago. That is what observation of the English landscape reveals.

"So, you're effectively taking the position of the young earth creationist. This isn't the proper forum for a discussion about the age of the earth, but suffice it to say that this statement is utterly and completely wrong. If you're interested in how a literal interpretation of Genesis is in agreement with modern science, see here. "

wow...just...wow...I m going to be charitable and assume that this was intended as jest.

Anonymous Luke May 17, 2014 1:14 AM  

I read your essay at the link you provided, Stickwick. My wife and I have some leftover frozen embryos. Want 1 or 2 (to go in a sub-age-30 gestational surrogate)? (Are mostly female,both ova donors early 20s, from blond/blond and blond/redhead genetic parents, all genetic parents blue-eyed, parental IQs average in 130s and 120s respectively, one w/ major science and/or math ability in both parents, other in one parent, both w/ athletic genetic mothers).

Anonymous Stickwick May 17, 2014 1:59 AM  

Lud, there's a difference between a global flood and a worldwide flood. The latter is what Genesis refers to, and a careful reading of the Bible indicates that "worldwide" refers only to the known world at that time, which would be the Mesopotamian. So, of course there would be no evidence of a catastrophic flood in England. And I really could not possibly care less if you take issue with this interpretation or not, so save your criticism.

As for the rest of your comment, I suspect you already know that I am not in jest. You've repeatedly shown yourself in these discussions to be in way over your head. It's unfortunate you do not think you have anything to learn from them.

Anonymous Stickwick May 17, 2014 2:05 AM  

Luke, thank you, but I am still apparently fertile, given the relative ease with which I conceived both times. However, my husband and I are not certain we want to try for another child. I mean, we were kind of pushing it with this last one -- it seems a bit unfair to saddle a child with parents who are going to be in their 60s by the time s/he's ready to leave home.

Anonymous Luke May 17, 2014 3:25 AM  

Stickwick, women REALLY shouldn't conceive their own (genetic) children past age 34 latest. There is something that kicks in there that is universal, can't be tested for, and can't be avoided (other than by using donor ova/donor embryos). Past that age, there is known to be a roughly one-to-one tradeoff of age of genetic mother/reduced life expectancy and vitality in daughters. As in, a 39-YO mother knocks about 5 years, or 7%, off the LE of any little babies that she'd want to put in Easter dresses and put bows in her hair. It's not that they kick off at 73 instead of 78 (or whatever) with everything the same before then. It's all through life that the kid is less healthy and more likely to die, by about that same percentage. This is a horrible thing to knowingly, avoidably, doing to a child. (It likely operates analogously on sons, but the research isn't that far yet.) No, I don't remember where I read this (have kicked myself mentally many times for not saving it). But, our fertility clinic doc confirmed it.

Oh, and you know what people who live relatively healthily to very, very old ages typically have in common? Very young mothers.

P.S. having another child (so you have more than one) would IMO be a kindness to the one you have already. The idea is that after you and your husband are gone, she's got someone that's immediate family. My wife and I are older parents, too, and we intentionally have two little ones. (Trying to talk the wife into just one more.) ;)

All the best to you.

Blogger Lud VanB May 17, 2014 9:11 AM  

"As for the rest of your comment, I suspect you already know that I am not in jest. You've repeatedly shown yourself in these discussions to be in way over your head. It's unfortunate you do not think you have anything to learn from them. "

Oh come now...what with the cherry picking of disparate factoids, the playing fast and loose with word definition and the mangling of general relativity, what is there for anyone to take issue with?

Anonymous Stickwick May 17, 2014 10:29 AM  

Lud, just give it up. You have no clue what you're talking about, which is why you're offering vague comments instead of detailed and substantive criticism. You're way out of your league here.

Anonymous bob k. mando May 17, 2014 11:00 AM  

Luke May 16, 2014 10:09 PM
Look! Someone else who thinks they can control my social decisions.



and this is what makes you an idiot.

it's not simply that you're ignorant of basic rules of the English language.

it's that you're obnoxious about trying to enforce your ad hoc and idiosyncratic usage on everyone else.

by telling Stickwick that she doesn't 'have the right' to call herself "Dr." you are functionally accusing her of educational and titular malfeasance. you are also accusing Vox and Castalia House of being too stupid to know the difference between people who are qualified for the title and those who are not.

as if med school is harder or requires more abstract thinking or is as beneficial to society as a theoretical physicist ... :rolleyes:

congratulations for being too short for this ride.

now, why don't you toddle along over to Jerry Pournelle's place and tell him that HE isn't qualified to use "Dr." either. cuz, you know, he's a doctor of psychology, not medical.

should you ever decide to stop lashing out in ignorance, "Dr." is also a valid appellation for someone with a divinity degree.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/doctor?s=t


or you can keep on keeping on being a douche. i don't really care.

Anonymous Biff May 17, 2014 12:03 PM  

Cataline Sergius- James Cambias did a good first novel recently, but if you want the old Niven back read Shipstar.

Anonymous Luke May 17, 2014 7:14 PM  

bob k. mando May 17, 2014 11:00 AM

""Dr." is also a valid appellation for someone with a divinity degree."

Oh, like Jesse Jackson or anyone who sent 25 bucks to the Universal Life Church for a certificate that they're now an ordained minister with a divinity degree? Boy, your standards for a "doctor" are abyssally low. Do you even HAVE a term in your language that exclusively denotes someone who really has their E.coli together at the highest level of at least a hard science (e.g., not psychology or other social studies/liberal arts)? Here's a hint for you: The Medal of Honor didn't mean much until the Army stopped giving it out to entire regiments. You would use the term "doctor" to make any number of mouth-breathers feel less retarded, while stymying useful communication. It's akin IMO to letting pairs of rectal romeos force everyone to call them "married"; at a fundamental level, a type of intellectual dishonesty. Enjoy residing in your Malcolm Gladwell egalitarian fantasy; I won't be joining you there.

Anonymous bob k. mando May 17, 2014 7:31 PM  

Luke May 17, 2014 7:14 PM
Oh, like Jesse Jackson or anyone who sent 25 bucks to the Universal Life Church for a certificate that they're now an ordained minister with a divinity degree?



produce where i stated that mail order degrees were proper certifications or admit that you have lied about what i said.



Luke May 17, 2014 7:14 PM
Boy, your standards for a "doctor" are abyssally [ sic ] low.


a - they're not "my standards", douchecanoe.
b - because theoretical physics is sooooo much easier than general practitioner.

the definition is centuries old accepted usage IN ACCORD WITH the historical etymology of the word.


Origin:
1275–1325; Middle English docto ( u ) r (< Anglo-French ) < Latin, equivalent to doc ( ēre ) to teach + -tor

in point of fact, the usage of 'Doctor' for medical and veterinarian practitioners is the more RECENT development.


you will, of course, continue with your projection in the face of all documentation and keep asserting that WE are the ones trying to "control social decisions".

it's not a question of 'social decision'. it's a question of objective fact.

of course, to a lying sack of shit, objective fact has little import.

until you apologize for lying about what i said and, more importantly, apologize to Stickwick for FALSELY asserting that she is unqualified to use the title, we are done here.



Stickwick May 16, 2014 9:38 PM
I have two daughters -- one died about a year and a half ago



my condolences.

i don't remember seeing this back when it happened.

Anonymous Luke May 18, 2014 12:47 AM  

bob k. mando May 17, 2014 7:31 PM
Luke May 17, 2014 7:14 PM

"Oh, like Jesse Jackson or anyone who sent 25 bucks to the Universal Life Church for a certificate that they're now an ordained minister with a divinity degree?"


"produce where i stated that mail order degrees were proper certifications"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bob k. mando May 17, 2014 11:00 AM

"Dr." is also a valid appellation for someone with a divinity degree."

Nothing in the above sentence you posted was about the DDs having to be from Notre Dame, Haaavaaad, the Vatican, Westboro Baptist, or wherever you revere the HNICs.

Glad to clear that up for you.

Again: some one may claim a name, but I don't have to recognize their claim to that name. (Please read this as slowly as necessary.)

Now, piss off.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also do not recognize the appellation "Native American" when referring to the Asian-origin aborigines Columbus and his successors encountered here. Those people had to be beaten in war (and fortunately were) in order to create America. Had they won, there would be no America. Rather, they're defeated enemies that are here on sufferance, being neither exterminated nor driven away. Neither are they "indigenous", as NO humans originally evolved AFAWK in the New World. They're just slightly earlier emigrants from Asia. Frankly, if they cause enough trouble, it would be most reasonable IMO to send them home. If Russia/China/Mongolia don't want them (understandably), there is always a shortage of animal protein in Borneo and New Guinea, so there ARE places in the Orient to which they could be repatriated.

Anonymous kh123 May 18, 2014 3:33 AM  

Anyone who bothered to read it got the point the first time several comments up.

Anonymous VD May 18, 2014 2:44 PM  

I remain steadfast in my refusal to consider anything but an M.D. graduate of a Western medical school a "doctor".

Luke, nobody gives a damn what you think. You're steadfastly an idiot as well as a rude and parochial historical ignoramus. "Dottore" has been used as an honorific for centuries to refer to an educated man. In Italy, it often refers to a sufficiently erudite college graduate.

In fact, the PhD version of "doctor" predates the medical one. The etymology of the term relates to teaching, not medicine.

"1275–1325; Middle English docto(u)r (< Anglo-French) < Latin, equivalent to doc(ēre) to teach + -tor -tor"

Anonymous VD May 18, 2014 2:50 PM  

Now, piss off.

No, Luke, you're the one who is about to get his idiot ass spammed and banned.

Blogger JCclimber May 19, 2014 2:00 PM  

Stickwick,
you might want to revise the workbook with a note or similar disclaimer on those sections that would be difficult to perform in Southern Hemispheric regions. Until you can get around to revising the chapters. Or adding supplements to the curricula for those portions.

I am looking forward to purchasing this for myself (my son is under 10 years now), we recently went stargazing while in Yosemite and I really wanted to know more about what we were observing.

I'm sure I will especially appreciate the Christian supplement.

Blogger JCclimber May 19, 2014 2:07 PM  

Luke, what is truly amazing is that you hold opinions that are in the majority here, yet are managing to demonstrate an amazing lack of social skills.

Also, I don't give a crap about your opinion that a child conceived after age 34 will have a lower life expectancy (your claim, not mine). I suppose you also agree that those embryos that are tested and found to have diseases like Down's Syndrome or cystic fibrosis should be terminated, because that's what Jesus would do.

If my son (conceived before 34 but whatever) only lives to be 50 for some reason, but has a living and saving relationship with Jesus Christ when he dies, I am filled with joy. 50 years, 40 years, 30 years, or 120 years in this sin-filled cesspool of a world is not as important as what you do in those 50, 40, 30, or 120 years.

Anonymous Stickwick May 19, 2014 2:57 PM  

JCclimber: you might want to revise the workbook with a note or similar disclaimer on those sections that would be difficult to perform in Southern Hemispheric regions. Until you can get around to revising the chapters.

The textbook (which I did not write -- it was written by Nick Strobel) is generally applicable to anywhere in the world. It's just some of the activities in the Lab Book that will not apply to the Southern Hemisphere. IIRC, there are only 2-3 activities that need to be revised, so what we'll probably do for the next edition is offer two versions of each of those activities -- one for each hemisphere. In the meantime, I can offer a downloadable PDF of each of those activities for anyone in the SH who buys the curriculum.

If my son (conceived before 34 but whatever) only lives to be 50 for some reason, but has a living and saving relationship with Jesus Christ when he dies, I am filled with joy. 50 years, 40 years, 30 years, or 120 years in this sin-filled cesspool of a world is not as important as what you do in those 50, 40, 30, or 120 years.

Well said.

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