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Saturday, July 19, 2014

Killer cops

In fairness to the NYPD, it can hardly be denied that the cigarettes the man was unlawfully selling might have caused them cancer by secondhand smoke, thereby presenting an imminent threat that required an immediate resort to the use of lethal force to stop him:
A man has died during an arrest in New York during which a police officer was captured on an amateur camera appearing to put his arm around his neck. Eric Garner, 43, died outside a beauty salon in Staten Island, one of New York City's five boroughs. He had a heart attack as he struggled with officers trying to arrest him on suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes, police said.

Partial video of the confrontation obtained by the New York Daily News shows an officer placing what appears to be a choke hold on the 6ft 3, 25st man who can be heard complaining that he cannot breathe.

Four police officers help bring the man down and he apparently loses conciousness. The video shows the officer who apparently choked Mr Garner using his hands to push Mr Garner's face into the sidewalk. 
What are the chances that any of these killer cops lose their jobs or serve a single day in prison for killing a man for cigarettes? Is there a negative probability math to calculate degrees of certainty concerning a non-event not happening?

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187 Comments:

Anonymous Geoff-UK July 19, 2014 9:12 AM  

Thank goodness none of the four cops were hurt by the unarmed assailant!

Blogger FALPhil July 19, 2014 9:16 AM  

If you are going to sell untaxed cigarettes in a police state, you should understand the risks.

Anonymous Idle Spectator July 19, 2014 9:16 AM  

STOP RESISTING asthmatic dead man!

Anonymous Wanderer July 19, 2014 9:27 AM  

We are all just potential collateral damage.

Anonymous Porky July 19, 2014 9:33 AM  

That Jonah Hill and Channing Tatum are hilarious together.

Blogger Tommy Hass July 19, 2014 9:34 AM  

I know this one was a darkie, but considering his age and his "crime", what kind of fucktard would even bother to do this?

5 years at minimum.

Blogger RC July 19, 2014 9:35 AM  

Yes, rule of law is well and truly dead for our overlords. Earlier this summer on the lake I frequent a water patrol officer was taking in a kid for suspicion of boating under the influence. The kid was handcuffed and somehow ended up in the water. Being handcuffed, drowned, the officer failing to secure the kid's lifejacket. The kid is dead and the officer is back at work. If a non-LOE makes such a mistake it's an easy involuntary manslaughter conviction (and rightly so) along with a civil lawsuit. Life is cheap if you're a popo.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 9:36 AM  

hey... remember back when people got arrested peacefully without getting the living hell beat out of them?

ah the good ol' days...

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 9:37 AM  

there have always been asshole cops ( the sheriff of Nottingham, fer instance ) but it takes Improvamentated Murica to train them ALL to be assholes.

this is an outgrowth of the 'Seize and maintain control of the situation at all costs' doctrine.

Anonymous Big Bill July 19, 2014 9:40 AM  

Why did he struggle when they said, "you are under arrest." Or were they plain clothes and he did not believe they were cops?

Anonymous mookie July 19, 2014 9:44 AM  

That's the same thing they did to my boy Radio Raheem!

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 9:49 AM  

another thing i like, you notice how the first thing that happens after the cops figure out they've murdered him is they start clearing people off of their own property?

the guy videoing says he's on his front stoop, that he lives at this apartment. does the pig ask for id or verification to that effect? no.

just back the fuck up or we'll do for you what we just did for this guy here.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2014 9:51 AM  

untaxed cigarete bites can be pretti nasti.

Anonymous Godfrey July 19, 2014 9:51 AM  

Why doesn't the MSM consider this racisss? ... oh yeah, it was government goons in unifomrs and it can't be used to further the statist agenda.

Anonymous Hunsdon July 19, 2014 9:54 AM  

Only a fascist like Vox would object to agents of the state extrajudicially murdering an uppity minority.

Oh, wait.

Anonymous Salt July 19, 2014 9:54 AM  

Patrick J. Lynch, president of the powerful Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, cautioned against drawing conclusions before the results of the official probe were released.

Yes, the goodwill and kindly feeling displayed by the police... how wonderful they were.


Blogger Tommy Hass July 19, 2014 10:07 AM  

And instead of focusing on genuine issues, those leftard faggots will drone about "gay marriage" or Whor.

Anonymous Noah B. July 19, 2014 10:09 AM  

The probability that the involved NYPD officers will receive promotions or citations for bravery is distinctly non-zero.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 10:14 AM  

"Mr Garner has been arrested 31 times since 1988 on charges such as drug possession, selling untaxed cigarettes and assault, police said."

But, yeah, they should have been more polite with a struggling suspect, maybe give him a massage to calm him down.

Anonymous Harsh July 19, 2014 10:16 AM  

I think I heard a cop shout "put down your gun!" as he choked the lifeless body.

Anonymous Idle Spectator July 19, 2014 10:27 AM  

Seriously, what the fuck is going on with the cops? They've gotten much worse in just the past 5 - 8 years.

Is it the bad economy? The new and improved vibrancy? The current militarization? The internet exposure? All of the above?

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 10:27 AM  

Godfrey July 19, 2014 9:51 AM
Why doesn't the MSM consider this racisss? ... oh yeah, it was government goons in unifomrs and it can't be used to further the statist agenda.




no, it was DE BLASIO's goons. that's the salient distinction. if there was a Repug mayor ( Giuliani for instance ), you can be sure there'd be hell to pay.

otoh, one must wonder if De Blasio has decided to jettison his campaign slogans about reigning the cops in.



Big Bill July 19, 2014 9:40 AM
Why did he struggle when they said, "you are under arrest." Or were they plain clothes and he did not believe they were cops?



he knew they were cops. from the dialogue, he knew the first cop that apprehended him personally.

was it the smartest thing in the world? no.

otoh, he was making no effort to run away or attack the officers. imo, the proper course of action would have been for the cops ( after multiple backups were there ) to tell him that they were going to search him and if they found nothing that they would release him.

that puts paid to the possibility that the 'fighting' was street theater as an excuse for all three to be standing together, allows the cops to enforce the law and results in no further harassment.

watching 'Lawrence' last night. that movie is just rife with really smart character interplay.

Lawrence accuses Allenby and Dryden of being liars, and the response was one of the greatest pieces of disqualification you'll ever see:
"If we've been telling lies, you've been telling half-lies. A man who tells lies, like me, merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it. "

this is not actually a syllogism but it mimics syllogistic form.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 10:30 AM  

Idle Spectator July 19, 2014 10:27 AM
The new and improved vibrancy? The current militarization?



these. also the violence inherent in the drug war.

those are the 'intellectual' justifications used for training the cadets in police academy to use overwhelming force at the slightest hint of non-cooperation.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 10:30 AM  

"Mr Garner has been arrested 31 times since 1988 on charges such as drug possession, selling untaxed cigarettes and assault, police said."

...Hold on. He's been ARRESTED, but how many times was he CONVICTED? How many times was he even tried?

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 10:37 AM  

roger u July 19, 2014 10:14 AM
But, yeah, they should have been more polite with a struggling suspect, maybe give him a massage to calm him down.



there's a difference between taking every opportunity you've got to escalate the situation ( current practice ) and treating people with minimal respect.

maybe you'd like to get shot for texting during the previews in a movie theater?
http://www.wwgp1050.com/2014/07/11/retired-police-captain-in-florida-movie-theater-shooting-released-on-bail/

Anonymous Scintan July 19, 2014 10:40 AM  

"But, yeah, they should have been more polite with a struggling suspect, maybe give him a massage to calm him down."

They used a banned choke hold, and they drove his head into the pavement. One need not be "more polite" in order to avoid breaking the rules and endangering lives.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 10:44 AM  

So, your position is that an entire generation of cops has decided to pick on this dude for no reason? That seems more likely to you than he's a career criminal who specializes in selling stolen cigarettes?

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 10:50 AM  

Scintan said,
"They used a banned choke hold, and they drove his head into the pavement. One need not be "more polite" in order to avoid breaking the rules and endangering lives."

You'll have to elaborate on the banned choke hold statement, I didn't see that in the article.

As for driving his head into the pavement, holding a struggling person's head down is the easiest way to control them, from what I can tell, its pretty standard.

Anonymous Anonymous July 19, 2014 10:57 AM  

Why did he struggle when they said, "you are under arrest."

What makes you sure they did? Since you asked if they were plainclothes, you obviously didn't read the article or watch the video. The article says the police arrived while the deceased was breaking up a fight between two other guys, and claimed they saw him selling cigarettes. I'm not sure how you sell cigarettes while you're breaking up a fight, but okay. Then in the video you see him telling the police that he wasn't selling anything, and he's tired of them harassing him. A witness said he also told them he wasn't feeling well. He's very agitated, probably partly from just breaking up a fight and partly because he knows he's about to get arrested again. The two cops are standing to either side of him so he can't watch them both at once, which I'm sure is helping him calm down.

Then the video jumps forward to when they're moving in on him, and he's telling the one in front not to touch him and pulling his hands away when the cop reaches for them. Maybe that counts as resisting; I don't know. At that point the cop behind him puts an arm around his throat and pulls him down. Maybe before they moved in they told him he was under arrest, but we don't see that.

Based on his record, I'd guess the cops have wrestled with him before, and since he was already worked up from the fight, they figured they might as well get him down in a hurry and save themselves some sweat. Guess they showed him.

Anonymous Scintan July 19, 2014 11:01 AM  

You'll have to elaborate on the banned choke hold statement, I didn't see that in the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/nyregion/staten-island-man-dies-after-he-is-put-in-chokehold-during-arrest.html?ref=nyregion&_r=1

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 11:04 AM  

"So, your position is that an entire generation of cops has decided to pick on this dude for no reason? That seems more likely to you than he's a career criminal who specializes in selling stolen cigarettes?"

Its called pattern recognition. In every single case we find police not just arresting people... but beating the shit out of them while doing so. Resistence and circumstances have nothing to do with it. You like to pretend that this happened because this is one bad person. Ok... how about the 30 something female pediatrician in Nashville? She's trying to help a mother save her new born baby that is locked in a hot car... and the fucking cop beats the shit out of her and arrests her for "attempting to break a window" and "resisting arrest". Ultimately the fire fighters on scene had to break the window to get the baby out anyway.

So a doctor gets the shit beat out of her in front of her own practice... in front of her own staff and her own patients... and what did the cop get?

No disciplinary action at all.

None.

Thankfully his dumbass will cost the city of nashville about 500k in damages though.

So please tell me how this 100 pound chick doctor was a REAL threat to the poor cop who was just trying to do his job.

or better yet... spare me the bullshit and open your eyes.

Anonymous Anonymous July 19, 2014 11:09 AM  

So, your position is that an entire generation of cops has decided to pick on this dude for no reason?

No, my position is that these particular cops spotted a guy breaking a minor law that shouldn't even be a law, and in the process of going through the motions of racking up his 32nd arrest for which he'd probably be let walk like all the others, they decided to subdue him with the same level of force they'd use on an escaped murderer.

I mean, did you see the guy? If they didn't take him down with a choke-hold, what was he going to do, run away? He'd drop in ten yards. The problem is that they escalate as quickly and as far as they think they can get away with, and it's starting to get people killed at an alarming rate. That some of them are minor criminals doesn't make it okay.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:12 AM  

'He referred to police rules that forbid chokeholds and define them as including “any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.” '

It would seem that his intake of air was not too hindered as he was able to say, "I can't breathe" over and over according to the story.

Blogger FALPhil July 19, 2014 11:14 AM  

So, your position is that an entire generation of cops has decided to pick on this dude for no reason? That seems more likely to you than he's a career criminal who specializes in selling stolen cigarettes?
I'm with Nate. The better question is, does selling untaxed cigarettes impose the death sentence?

Anonymous Scintan July 19, 2014 11:16 AM  

It would seem that his intake of air was not too hindered as he was able to say, "I can't breathe" over and over according to the story.

OK, you've got to be trolling. I refuse to believe you're this stupid.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 19, 2014 11:19 AM  

" he's a career criminal who specializes in selling stolen cigarettes?"

No, not stolen cigarettes. Something much much worse in the eyes of the government, UNTAXED cigarettes. Not giving the robber chief his bribe is a crime only slightly below disrespecting one of his goons.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:20 AM  

Nate,
How many hundreds of thousands of people have been arrested so far this year? how many of those arrests have you read about? Pattern recognition would say that the media is focusing on bad cops to get emotional people like you riled up to sell some newspaper and generate some page views. These victims are a commodity and you're the buyer.

cailcorishev,
"No, my position is that these particular cops spotted a guy breaking a minor law that shouldn't even be a law"
What do you think "untaxed cigarettes" are? how does one acquire "untaxed cigarettes"? they "fall of the back of a truck." So, you are saying that theft should not be a crime.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:21 AM  

So, your position is that an entire generation of cops has decided to pick on this dude for no reason? That seems more likely to you than he's a career criminal who specializes in selling stolen cigarettes?

Is this directed to me?

I'm not taking any position without having all the facts. I'm noticing some potential weasel-wording and pointing it out. They're basically saying, "We've gotten into it with this guy plenty of times before," but not actually saying whether they were ever in the right when they did.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:23 AM  

It would seem that his intake of air was not too hindered as he was able to say, "I can't breathe" over and over according to the story.

...

You do know that sudden shortness of breath is a major symptom of a heart attack, don't you? The thing he DIED from?

Blogger Chris Mallory July 19, 2014 11:24 AM  

"It would seem that his intake of air was not too hindered as he was able to say, "I can't breathe" over and over according to the story."

"OK, you've got to be trolling. I refuse to believe you're this stupid."

If you can speak, you are getting enough air through your airway to breathe. The person is in trouble when they start turning blue and can only gesture. Or that is what the EMT teaching the Red Cross First Aid class told us.

Blogger RC July 19, 2014 11:24 AM  

It would seem that his intake of air was not too hindered as he was able to say, "I can't breathe" over and over according to the story. - roger u

Based upon SWPL indoctrination since childhood, it really is hard to flip the switch and realize that something is terribly wrong in police circles. But look at your own comment: You're implying that he really could breathe because he could get a few words, yet he is dead. The evidence is overwhelming. He is dead.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:24 AM  

Sigyn,
Do you know where to look for criminal records in NY? My state has a public database of offender records, but I couldn't find one for NY.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 19, 2014 11:27 AM  

"What do you think "untaxed cigarettes" are? how does one acquire "untaxed cigarettes"? they "fall of the back of a truck." So, you are saying that theft should not be a crime."

You buy them out of state or from an Indian reservation. Illinois has a law that if you are caught with more than 3 cartons of cigarettes in your car from out of state you are "bootlegging". So, if you buy 4 cartons of cheap cigs in Kentucky and drive up I-24, the state of Illinois says you are a criminal with "untaxed" cigarettes.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:27 AM  

"You do know that sudden shortness of breath is a major symptom of a heart attack, don't you? The thing he DIED from?"

Now cops are supposed to diagnose medical issues, too? C'mon, first thing somebody choked says is "I can't breathe."

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 11:27 AM  

roger u July 19, 2014 10:44 AM
So, your position is that an entire generation of cops has decided to pick on this dude for no reason?



my position is that an entire generation of cops has been trained to be assholes.


my position is that i've had a cop decide that i was an easy mark to meet his traffic ticket quota because the first time he pulled me over i declined an offer to look at the radar gun.

so, about four months later he pulled me over again ( highly distinctive car ) and FALSELY accused me ( i know exactly where he picked me up visually and it wasn't physically possible that i was ) of speeding. i said, " we're going to go look at that radar gun right now" and started opening my door.

he instructed me to get back in my car and told me that *i* didn't want to escalate the situation or he "might have to arrest me".

he "let me go" with a verbal warning.

i guess i was exercising my white privilege. note how the pig threatened me with false arrest in order to prevent me from verifying that he had no evidence whatsoever against me while WHEN HE HAD EVIDENCE he invited me back to his car.


that's not the only time a cop has fucked up and then threatened to arrest me to cover it.



roger u July 19, 2014 10:50 AM
You'll have to elaborate on the banned choke hold statement, I didn't see that in the article.


in the other linked article:
"dangerous maneuver that was banned by the New York Police Department more than 20 years ago"

chokes are not banned in all jurisdictions ... but they have been forever in NYC.


frankly, i think the choke hold was likely irrelevant. it looks to me more like it was having three officers sitting on him for an extended period that killed him.

however, this cop killed this man with an action that is clearly illegal in this jurisdiction.

ask yourself this: if someone dies because you were DUI, what's going to happen to you? what if you were DUI on the job and killed somebody? you think you're going to lose your job as well as go to jail?

something else to think about:
they were accusing him of selling untaxed cigarettes. did they find any?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:28 AM  

How many hundreds of thousands of people have been arrested so far this year? how many of those arrests have you read about? Pattern recognition would say that the media is focusing on bad cops to get emotional people like you riled up to sell some newspaper< and generate some page views. These victims are a commodity and you're the buyer.

"Move along, now, move along. Nothin' to see here."

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:29 AM  

Chris mallory,
Good point, I didn't think of that. Doesn't change the fact that he knew he was breaking the law.

Anonymous Scintan July 19, 2014 11:31 AM  

If you can speak, you are getting enough air through your airway to breathe. The person is in trouble when they start turning blue and can only gesture. Or that is what the EMT teaching the Red Cross First Aid class told us.

Getting enough air to occasionally blurt out "I can't breathe" is not the same as being able to breathe freely, and does not mean that you're not being choked out. That's what a lifetime of wresting and fighting has taught many of us.

In this case, the choke hold is BANNED in the first place. The police used a BANNED action in order to arrest a man for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes.

Some of you people scare me with how far you'll go to excuse the police.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:33 AM  

bob k mando
"my position is that an entire generation of cops has been trained to be assholes."
Of course they're assholes, their job is to impose their will on other assholes. Shrinking violets need not apply.

The DUI comparison is pretty good, so that cop should be fired.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:37 AM  

Do you know where to look for criminal records in NY? My state has a public database of offender records, but I couldn't find one for NY.

You could start from Google.

Now cops are supposed to diagnose medical issues, too? C'mon, first thing somebody choked says is "I can't breathe."

No, I expect cops to use common sense. For instance, I expect them not to go choke-slamming people over "untaxed cigarettes". Also, I expect them to know something about the law--at least more than a dumb housewife knows.

Out of curiosity, have you ever been choked so you couldn't breathe?

Anonymous Don July 19, 2014 11:38 AM  

Looks like the guy had heart failure due to positioning and stress. Actually fairly common don't put a big fat guy on his stomach after exertion and stress with his hands cuffed behind him.

The guy wasn't having problems with his airway. He felt SOB because he was having a heart attack.

Blogger Retrenched July 19, 2014 11:40 AM  

When they say "no smoking", they really, really, REALLY fucking mean no smoking.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 11:40 AM  

roger u July 19, 2014 11:20 AM
What do you think "untaxed cigarettes" are? how does one acquire "untaxed cigarettes"? they "fall of the back of a truck."



no you dumbfuck, that's "selling stolen property".

'untaxed cigarettes' are directly imported from the Carolinas or someplace else with minimal tobacco tax into a high tax jurisdiction like NYC without going through the 'normal' importation and sales procedures.

here's how it's done. on a trip down south, you stop in SC and buy a trunkload of cigarettes. then you continue up I-95 into NYC. then you sell cigs out of the back of your car.

THAT'S an 'untaxed cigarette'.

occasionally you'll see a report of an entire semi load getting confiscated ( hint: if it was stolen they'd be returned to their rightful owner ) because that's what they're doing.



roger u July 19, 2014 11:27 AM
Now cops are supposed to diagnose medical issues, too? C'mon, first thing somebody choked says is "I can't breathe."



how bout, the first thing the cop is NOT supposed to do is choke anyone?


note that you are now conceding the fact that the cop was breaking the law AND killed someone ... and you're still making excuses for the cop.

you want to tell me how many people Eric Garner murdered?

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:41 AM  

Sigyn,
Yes I have been choked so I couldn't breathe, its unpleasant.

I did a google search and only got articles about the incident, I then searched for NY departments of justice, public safety, etc but I couldn't fin a searchable database. I am curious to know his conviction history, maybe somebody reading here knows where to look?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:41 AM  

Looks like the guy had heart failure due to positioning and stress. Actually fairly common don't put a big fat guy on his stomach after exertion and stress with his hands cuffed behind him.

The guy wasn't having problems with his airway. He felt SOB because he was having a heart attack.


This would be that "common sense" thing I was talking about, roger. Look real close.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:44 AM  

bob k mando, I concede that the officer used a choke hold, which is prohibited. I am not conceding that he died from it, that's for the medical examiner to decide.

Anonymous sawtooth July 19, 2014 11:44 AM  

Too bad the guy wasn't selling (untaxed) heroin.

Then he would still be breathing and could go back to dealing in short order.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 11:45 AM  

Sigyn,
Not being a giant fat ass myself, I am unfamiliar with issues faced by the morbidly obese.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 11:46 AM  

roger u July 19, 2014 11:33 AM
Of course they're assholes, their job is to impose their will on other assholes.



newsflash: i'm an asshole and deserve to be treated like violently manhandled even when i've broken no law.

well, okay. i am kind of obnoxious.




roger u July 19, 2014 11:33 AM
The DUI comparison is pretty good, so that cop should be fired.



that's not the problem, roger.

the problem is, you've made us beat your head in to even get to the point of admitting basic justice.

until YOU and a lot more of your friends start demanding that cops be held accountable for these kinds of things there will be no improvement.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 11:48 AM  

Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:37 AM
at least more than a dumb housewife knows.



*psssst*

next time throw in 'barefoot and formerly pregnant in the kitchen'.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:50 AM  

Roger, in answer to your question:

Got $65?

Yes I have been choked so I couldn't breathe, its unpleasant.

So have I. My first words on the other side of it were NOT "I can't breathe". (It was actually more like "You bastard", but that's beside the point.)

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 11:51 AM  

"How many hundreds of thousands of people have been arrested so far this year? how many of those arrests have you read about? Pattern recognition would say that the media is focusing on bad cops to get emotional people like you riled up to sell some newspaper and generate some page views. These victims are a commodity and you're the buyer."

if my experience were limited to the news cycle that would a valid point. however I happen to know that this statement is total bullshit because the vast majority of the beatings go unreported. The only reason anyone found out about that doctor is the fact that she sued the shit out of Nashville.

Now... Roger... how we KNOW this is not abnormal... is the fact that the officer was not punished.

All the charges were dropped. Everyone involved admits he was wrong to arrest her. But he was not disciplined at all for beating the shit out of her.

There is only one possible conclusion Roger. Beating the shit out of people is expected and condoned.

Now... pull your head out of your ass... or just shut up. I really don't care. If there some cop who's dick you like to suck.... maybe you should go back to that.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 11:54 AM  

Not being a giant fat ass myself, I am unfamiliar with issues faced by the morbidly obese.

Neither am I, never have been, but I still know. And in a nation of fat people, you'd think the cops would know.

next time throw in 'barefoot and formerly pregnant in the kitchen'.

Once and future, bob. Royal lines need establishing and stuff.

Anonymous Steve July 19, 2014 11:59 AM  

Last week some Palestinian "American" was involved in a protest in the West Bank against Israel (which involved sling shots and rocks). The Israeli cops caught him and beat him but did not kill him or come close to killing him. Of course our State Department demanded an investigation, condemned the beating. Does our State Department and political class have ANY idea what goes on in this country day by day - and not even against people slinging rocks against the police? Or is it that they simply do not care.

Anonymous Huey Freeman July 19, 2014 12:02 PM  

Vox, when it comes to talking about cops, you're no different than atheists talking about religion. It's like your brain shuts off or something. The video is obviously edited, suspiciously right as they're ready to arrest him (maybe they were trying to peacefully bring him in and the fat man threatened the cop, but the video edited that part out, we'll never know). Application of lethal force? nice play on words. The fact that he died when the cops brought him down the ground is not lethal force, per say, lethal force. Application of lethal force would be the intent of using lethal force, which was not this case. In this case, they brought him to the ground and he died.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:02 PM  

Does our State Department and political class have ANY idea what goes on in this country day by day - and not even against people slinging rocks against the police? Or is it that they simply do not care.

If they cared, they would spend more time looking at why, despite Chicago's gun ban, black children in Chicago keep getting shot.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 12:03 PM  

bob k mando
"the problem is, you've made us beat your head in to even get to the point of admitting basic justice."
I was going by the article linked in the post. Until somebody linked to the other article, I had no way of knowing choke holds were prohibited. So, one cop violated department regulations and should be punished according to those regs.

"until YOU and a lot more of your friends start demanding that cops be held accountable for these kinds of things there will be no improvement."

I agree with this, but your painting all cops with the same brush is no better. The majority of the 600k or so cops in the country are not doing this.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:07 PM  

maybe they were trying to peacefully bring him in and the fat man threatened the cop, but the video edited that part out, we'll never know

And maybe they bought him dinner and took him out for a movie before engaging in a rough makeout session.

Yeah, Vox, what are you, some kind of homophobe?

Anonymous DT July 19, 2014 12:08 PM  

He had a heart attack as he struggled with officers trying to arrest him on suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes, police said.

Why did we bother with our war for independence from England again?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:11 PM  

The majority of the 600k or so cops in the country are not doing this.

There's a point at which silence becomes assent, and refusal to act becomes complicity. Where that point lies is debatable, but their JOB is to protect people from the bad guys. If they want to be the good guys again, they need to start cleaning house--even if it's only blowing the whistle on their in-house criminals.

They need to figure out whose side they're on and then ACT like it.

Anonymous DT July 19, 2014 12:14 PM  

(maybe they were trying to peacefully bring him in and the fat man threatened the cop, but the video edited that part out, we'll never know).

Maybe our government shouldn't be taxing every single thing we produce, buy, or do. And maybe our government shouldn't use violent force against those who skip out on paying those taxes.

Application of lethal force? nice play on words. The fact that he died when the cops brought him down the ground is not lethal force, per say, lethal force.

I would agree. Which is why they should go to prison on involuntary manslaughter convictions, and not murder convictions.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 12:14 PM  

"Of course they're assholes, their job is to impose their will on other assholes. "

No you moron. their job is to impose their will on you. Not "other assholes". You. Until you get that through your idiot skull you will be part of the problem.

And do remember...

When it comes time to solve The Problem... we won't have any guilt about lining your dumb ass against the wall right next to them.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 12:14 PM  

Sigyn,
' My first words on the other side of it were NOT "I can't breathe".' That was my point, he wasn't actually being choked out, in hindsight, we know he was probably having a heart attack, but on the scene, I would think he was just trying to get me to let go.

NC has a free public database of offenders. I'm nor curious enough to spend my money !

"And in a nation of fat people, you'd think the cops would know."
I would assume they have had some training along those lines, too. I would also assume there are some guidelines for hand cuffing obese suspects.

Nate,
" however I happen to know that this statement is total bullshit because the vast majority of the beatings go unreported."

How many beatings are there and cite your sources, please.



Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 12:15 PM  

this woman was an asshole and deserved to be treated like an asshole. how dare anyone protest pigs violating the 2nd and 4th?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpHkR2KaTLw

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 12:17 PM  

'I agree with this, but your painting all cops with the same brush is no better. The majority of the 600k or so cops in the country are not doing this. "

There is a mountain of evidence to support the opposite of this claim... and only wishful thinking to support it.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 12:20 PM  

Nate,
"No you moron. their job is to impose their will on you. Not "other assholes". You. Until you get that through your idiot skull you will be part of the problem."

I have never had any problems with cops. Of course, I'm not a criminal and I treat everybody politely.

"When it comes time to solve The Problem... we won't have any guilt about lining your dumb ass against the wall right next to them."

Idle threat. If libertarians were the type to take action, they would have already.

Anonymous horsewithnonick July 19, 2014 12:24 PM  

roger, you ignorant slut.

Let this sink into your head for a minute - had the cop not been using a prohibited tactic to subdue a man suspected of a nonviolent offense, and the overweight man had complained of acute shortness of breath after a period of fairly heavy exertion, it would have been possible to diagnose the actual cause, instead of holding the poor sonofabitch down until he DIED.

Anonymous Anonymous July 19, 2014 12:27 PM  

Some of you people scare me with how far you'll go to excuse the police.

Yes. It's now been implied that he pretty much deserved what he got because he A) has been arrested before, B) might have committed a tax crime, C) didn't obey the cops quickly enough, and D) was fat and stupid.

Maybe everyone should be arrested at least once in his life. Maybe that would help people be less clueless and righteous about it.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:28 PM  

I have never had any problems with cops. Of course, I'm not a criminal and I treat everybody politely.

You are just spoiling for a fight today, aren't you?

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 12:28 PM  

Nate,
"There is a mountain of evidence to support the opposite of this claim... and only wishful thinking to support it."

So, no facts?

Anonymous Anonymous July 19, 2014 12:31 PM  

The fact that he died when the cops brought him down the ground is not lethal force, per say, lethal force.

Oops. Trying to sound lawyer-y is not for amateurs.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 12:32 PM  

Sigyn,
I am just bothered by the groupthink exhibited when it cones to cops. The only other group I know with such a dim view of police are black people.

Cailcorishev,
I have been arrested once for driving with an expired license. The deputy was polite (as was I) and I was released an hour or so later on bond. The charges were dropped in court when I could prove that my license was not actually expired.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 12:41 PM  

roger u July 19, 2014 12:28 PM
So, no facts?



you retarded dumbfuck, go on youtube and google 'cop violence' or any related search term.

you don't have to pay for that.

Pro Libertate is also free;
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/



roger u July 19, 2014 12:32 PM
and I was released an hour or so later on bond. The charges were dropped in court when I could prove that my license was not actually expired.



holy shit, you are dumber than a box of rocks. you tell us that a cop FALSELY ARRESTED YOU over an 'expired license' but it's okay because he was polite?

when the FUCK did it become necessary to take a trip to jail over that?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:47 PM  

I am just bothered by the groupthink exhibited when it cones to cops. The only other group I know with such a dim view of police are black people.

Concern troll is concerned.

Anonymous Anonymous July 19, 2014 12:48 PM  

Roger, my one arrest was peaceful and friendly too. (I won't claim to have been innocent.) But the experience -- especially the attitude of the cops under the surface, and the way they unthinkingly followed nonsensical bureaucratic rules -- made me realize that it could have gone very differently very easily. If I hadn't been a well-dressed citizen in a nice part of town; if I'd had an 80 IQ and made a bad decision at any point in the process; if I'd been agitated about something else that just happened; if I'd had a bad experience with the cops a week before; if one of the cops had been having a bad day and decided to take it out on me....it could have gone very differently. And no one ever looks calm and reasonable after the fact once he's face down and cuffed.

If you want to talk about group-think, there's far more of it on the "if the cops had to get tough with you, you probably deserved it" side. I know because I used to think that way. Now my viewpoint is much more nuanced: I don't think every cop is out there beating people up for no reason, but many are going too far and there's a culture of covering it up -- partly because of that pro-cops group-think among most of the public and media.

People who think the media is anti-cop must not have watched TV for the past 30 years or so.

Blogger Retrenched July 19, 2014 12:49 PM  

Obvious troll is obviously trolling.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein July 19, 2014 12:49 PM  

In fairness to the NYPD, it can hardly be denied that the cigarettes the man was unlawfully selling might have caused them cancer by secondhand smoke, thereby presenting an imminent threat that required an immediate resort to the use of lethal force to stop him:

Does this mean Japan can engage in an offensive war on the USA's behalf?

Should Russia be worried about their east coast?

Anonymous A Visitor July 19, 2014 12:51 PM  

"He had a heart attack as he struggled with officers trying to arrest him on suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes, police said."

I watched the video and read the article in its entirety. The one thought I come away with is that the man weighed 400 lbs. and this was simply a question of when he was going to have that heart attack. The police, physically and with the added stress, were the catalyst that set it off.

Having said that, the police didn't need to drag him to the ground to arrest. He had quite a bit of girth but they could've as easily put him up against the building and handcuffed him. Note how fat some of the cops were too. Finally, he either was selling cigarettes illegally or he wasn't. If he was he deserved whatever punishment under NYC law.

"That Jonah Hill and Channing Tatum are hilarious together." That they are, saw it last night.

"Being handcuffed, drowned, the officer failing to secure the kid's lifejacket."

Granted, alcohol does make you more impervious to pain (I've been in one drunken fight, that was in high school, and won (had I not been drunk, I think I would've been in too much pain to win)) but you also lose your coordination. That's absurd on the officer's part. Having said that, did the kid not know how to swim? I've been drunk swimming in areas where I couldn't touch the bottom several times. You get winded easier but it's doable.

"Why did he struggle when they said, "you are under arrest." Or were they plain clothes and he did not believe they were cops?" That was his mistake right there. Even if he didn't believe them, they could've shown him their badges.

"Patrick J. Lynch, president of the powerful Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, cautioned against drawing conclusions before the results of the official probe were released." There was a video advert (three minutes in length) Taser made for its line of police cameras. It advertised that police with cameras recording are exonerated 90% of the time. Lynch, the facts seem to be pretty clear:

1) He probably was selling illegal cigarettes. Ergo, he deserved a citation or to be arrested. Being a fatass, the cops should've been a bit more gentle with him.

2) The reaction of your officers as the man was unconscious on the ground towards their fellow citizens (yes, their fellow citizens; not civilians) was pathetic.

"Mr Garner has been arrested 31 times since 1988 on charges such as drug possession, selling untaxed cigarettes and assault, police said. He was last arrested in May for selling untaxed cigarettes, court records show. Since 2009, he was arrested nine different times for selling such cigarettes, police said." He didn't look strong to me, just fat. They could've been a bit easier with him. Having said that, the man was a career criminal. Last time I heard, assault is a felony.

I echo Sigyn. How many times was he convicted?

"Is it the bad economy? The new and improved vibrancy? The current militarization? The internet exposure? All of the above?" All the above.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:55 PM  

when the FUCK did it become necessary to take a trip to jail over that?

True. I got tagged for an expired license once. It was three days after my birthday. The cop gave me a warning and told me that I could drive myself home or to the DMV right then, but I'd get a ticket if I did it again.

Not sure what he was pulling me over for, though. He never did say. Fortunately, he didn't search the car, because he'd have wondered why I had a hyperspace interpreter (sp?) in the trunk.

Anonymous Daniel July 19, 2014 12:57 PM  

What are the chances that the cigarettes go missing from evidence now that they aren't necessary to prosecute the dead man's suspected crime? Moonlight thugs gonna moonlight.

Anonymous rienzi July 19, 2014 12:58 PM  

Nate,
" however I happen to know that this statement is total bullshit because the vast majority of the beatings go unreported."

roger u: How many beatings are there and cite your sources, please.


In support of Nate, I offer my own experience of having the living sh*t kicked out of me by the French National Police in a case of mistaken identity.

I looked like Bret Favre after the NFC championship game against the Saints, only the bruises were pretty much over my entire body.

Report it? Don't make me laugh. American tourist complaining about the local cops. How far do think that would have gotten? Fu*k the police.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 19, 2014 1:00 PM  

Interpolator, Pet. Hyperspace interpolator. Do let's be accurate when we complain.

You ought not still be upset about that, by the bye. Yours was the only car with sufficient cargo space for it, and I assigned you a guard, no less.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 19, 2014 1:01 PM  

maybe you'd like to get shot for texting during the previews in a movie theater?

During previews? That's a bit harsh.

During the film? Works for me, though a captive bolt stunner would be better, no flash blindness.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 1:04 PM  

Um, no, I'm going to stay upset about that, my lord. You put Wilson in my car. He left chimichanga wrappers in my glove box (that I had to buy him so his mouth would be too full to shoot off and get me in trouble with the cop, thank you). He stuck gum in my tape deck!

GUM. Chewed by WILSON. Think about that.

And then you dropped a dude on it from an eighth-story window. I liked that car. I'm not sure why you think I'd be okay with that.

Anonymous Porky July 19, 2014 1:05 PM  

"The majority of the 600k or so cops in the country are not doing this."

A wildly unsupported and uninformed assertion.

Idiot, read the Knapp Commission report. It'll blow your mind. Or the more recent Mollen Commission report. It will make you want to vomit.

NYPD cops are almost all insanely corrupt. Have been for a hundred years.

Blogger Danby July 19, 2014 1:06 PM  

It's not that MOST cops are violent bullies, or even that MANY cops are. it's that no matter how many laws a cop breaks, no matter even if he commits plain old murder, he faces no consequences. At all. Even if it's a situation like the one recently in Texas where you have the officer, on camera, saying "I'm tired of dealing with this guy." and literally executing the victim. He was not arrested, was not fired, he was not even disciplined.

When you have an entire class of people who are allowed to beat, imprison, and murder the populace at whim, without penalty, you live in a police state. The fact that they haven't gone after you yet doesn't change that.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 19, 2014 1:06 PM  

I reimbursed you for all that, Sigyn. How like a woman, to hold a grudge over something so minor...

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 1:08 PM  

"Idle threat. If libertarians were the type to take action, they would have already."

I'm not a libertarian sugar tits. Most of the folks here aren't either.

Blogger RC July 19, 2014 1:12 PM  

"Being handcuffed, drowned, the officer failing to secure the kid's lifejacket."

Granted, alcohol does make you more impervious to pain (I've been in one drunken fight, that was in high school, and won (had I not been drunk, I think I would've been in too much pain to win)) but you also lose your coordination. That's absurd on the officer's part. Having said that, did the kid not know how to swim? I've been drunk swimming in areas where I couldn't touch the bottom several times. You get winded easier but it's doable." - Visitor

Perhaps I could have been clearer. The kid was handcuffed with his hands behind his back when he entered the water. When his life jacket slid over his head because it was improperly secured, he visited the bottom of the lake in 80 feet of water. To his credit, according to witnesses the officer did dive in to attempt a rescue, but that's beside the point. The kid is dead due to the officer's incompetence: involuntary manslaughter would be the charge for anyone else. As far as I know, he didn't even lose a leave day.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 1:13 PM  

Sigyn July 19, 2014 12:55 PM
The cop gave me a warning and told me that I could drive myself home or to the DMV right then, but I'd get a ticket if I did it again.



well, clearly, the cop evaluated roger as an asshole.

either that or you were exercising your Nordic goddess privilege.

more seriously, i understand that it's bureaucratic formality ( and ignoring that it's completely at the cops discretion ) but what PURPOSE is served by taking someone to jail, fingerprinting them and bonding them out over a technical violation which SHOULD BE between a written traffic citation / fine to a verbal warning and being allowed to go on your way?

i completely don't understand how this even got instituted.

yes, i am previously aware of it.

Anonymous FP July 19, 2014 1:13 PM  

"I have never had any problems with cops. Of course, I'm not a criminal and I treat everybody politely."

Thats cute. I'm not a criminal either but I've still had cops give me an attitude when they had no right to. Situations where if I gave back their attitude to them (golden rule right?) it would have "escalated" the situation and guys like you would call me a jerk at the least (and dumb). What does it say when the citizenry are held to a higher standard than our so called community protectors? Our "first responders"?

We're all criminals now, its just a matter of what little minor law or outright lie they can pin on you.

Anonymous Mr. Stubby July 19, 2014 1:14 PM  

He just broke up a fight before police approached him for selling untaxed loose cigarettes.

Loose cigs. Which means he probable bought a pack of cigs, which was taxed, broke open the pack of cigs, and sold each for so much a piece and didn't re-tax them and give the state its re-fair re-share.

How f*cking stupid.

And along comes the people with their hands on their crotches grinding their loins in orgasmic adulation in defense of the cops.

But I'm not a criminal! I don't buy a pack of cigarettes and re-sale them by the piece! And he didn't re-tax! The law is the law!

The corner market where I live just got busted for the same thing. Buy their own damn cigs, open them, and sell buy the piece. They got caught by some government functionary and told to stop that. They weren't making a healthy profit, just doing some of the poor folk in the neighborhood favor.

The law is the law and they shouldn't have hid those Jews!

They keep making law after law after law, and along comes the idiots, "But he broke the law!"

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 1:14 PM  

I'm not holding a grudge.

I'm just still not okay with it. And if I think about it, I get upset.

I mean, did I cry when those mutant gila monsters ate my first car? No. Did I get mad when you sent Wilson to round them up and he decided he was Hiccup from "How to Train Your Dragon"? No. Did I even get upset when you used that gravity-screw machine and kept levitating my skirt "quite by accident, you assured me"?

...Okay, yeah, that got me upset. BUT ANYWAY, you could stop making it sound like I'm some kind of hypersensitive PMS monster. I'm kind of justified.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 1:21 PM  

Sigyn July 19, 2014 1:14 PM
I'm just still not okay with it. And if I think about it, I get upset.
I mean, did I cry ...



Sigyn, the Alte of Asgard.

the NYPD is so notoriously corrupt, they made a major movie out of it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpico

Blogger JDC July 19, 2014 1:24 PM  

They unmistakably commanded the corpse to stop resisting so they are in the clear, clearly.

Blogger Danby July 19, 2014 1:33 PM  

FWIW, most states treat tax evasion as a more serious matter than violence. About 10 years ago, my wife's best friend was killed by a drunk driver. Guy blew 0.26 BAC, and was barely able to stand. He ran into her car at approximately 130 MPH and literally decapitated her with her steering wheel. He was convicted of vehicular homicide (essentially halfway between negligent manslaughter and 3rd degree murder) and sentenced to 30 months in prison. He was released after 18. About the same time there was a guy in our town who was convicted of registering his car out of state (in Oregon, where the taxes at the time were much lower). He was sentenced to a $10,000 fine and 60 months is prison. I'm not sure how much of that he served.

So yeah, tax evasion is much worse than killing people.

Blogger ajw308 July 19, 2014 1:42 PM  

That seems more likely to you than he's a career criminal who specializes in selling stolen cigarettes?
This one has been covered pretty well by the early rising Ilk, or at least the Ilk on the East Coast. They weren't stolen, just purchased in a state with lower tobacco taxes.

How you went from untaxed to stolen says something about your reading comprehension.

I live in a community of < 1/4 million and we have at least 1 cop who's job is to cycle through the gas stations and convienence stores and find untaxed cigarettes. Packs with the tax stamp less than 75% affixed (or some silly percentage, I'm not sure exactly what it is, though I've listened to the guy tell his stories) will generate fines and get the cigarettes confiscated under suspicion of being untaxed counterfeits.

It's all about the money and another union job, or two.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2014 1:52 PM  

Roger U thinks we are libertarians?

How cute.

Blogger ajw308 July 19, 2014 1:53 PM  

So yeah, tax evasion is much worse than killing people.
You're not the first to note that on this blog.

Go find the Jesse Ventura YouTube video where he tells of being the #3 guy in Cali Mongols, then seeing how politics works. He goes on to tell that the loyalty priorities in either power structure were the same:
1) The source of money,
2) The organization (mc or political party), lastly
3) Members.
The gangs will kill members who threaten the income, they'll befriend enemies who offer additional income.

It's more like the poor dumb bastard in the video forgot the rule that says "Don't interfere with the income of people who can kill you with impunity." Most of us understand this and don't even have to verbalize it.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 2:00 PM  

bob k mando
"holy shit, you are dumber than a box of rocks. you tell us that a cop FALSELY ARRESTED YOU over an 'expired license' but it's okay because he was polite?"

Jump to conclusions much? The license I handed the cop was old and expired. Why I had an old license in my wallet, I have never been able to figure out. The difference between my valid license and the old one was a motorcycle endorsement. After being released on bond, i mailed in a copy of my valid license and charges were dropped. So, I was not falsely arrested. The question is why DMV records aren't accessible by officers.

You consider youtube videos to be incontrovertible proof? And you call me a dumbfuck?

Porky,
"NYPD cops are almost all insanely corrupt. Have been for a hundred years."
NYPD may be a cesspool of corrupt cops, but they are a tiny percentage of the 600k or so I mentioned.

FP,
"Thats cute. I'm not a criminal either but I've still had cops give me an attitude when they had no right to."

Life's not fair and some people are assholes.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 2:18 PM  

Also... RogerU...

" In 1982, the federal government funded a "Police Services Study," in which over 12,000 randomly selected citizens were interviewed in three metropolitan areas. The study found that 13.6 percent of those surveyed claimed to have had cause to complain about police service (including verbal abuse, discourtesy and physical abuse) in the previous year. Yet only 30 percent of those who acknowledged such brutality filed formal complaints.[22] A 1998 Human Rights Watch report stated that in all 14 precincts it examined, the process of filing a complaint was "unnecessarily difficult and often intimidating."[23] "

There.

Wikipedia is so hard.

You're an idiot of the worst sort... a willful idiot who ignores the truth... because feelbad.

Anonymous Porky July 19, 2014 2:19 PM  

NYPD may be a cesspool of corrupt cops, but they are a tiny percentage of the 600k or so I mentioned.

Right. Cuz there's no way that could happen in LA. Or Chicago. Or Atlanta. Or Miami. Or San Francisco. Or Boston. Or Detroit. Or ....

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 2:26 PM  

Porky,
You bring up an interesting point. LA, Chicago, NY, all those places you mentioned are major metropolitan areas while I live in a small city. Could be that has something to do with both the problem and the media attention.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2014 2:27 PM  

Yes, Roger, the 40,000 sworn officers of the NYPD, whose corruption is so legendary that a movie starring Al "GRRRRREEEEAAATTT AASSSSS" Pacino was made 40 years ago to document it, only represent a tiny fraction of the 600,000 or so police officers in this country.

Ah, I have figured it out. Your real name is Dick Wolf.

Anonymous Harsh July 19, 2014 2:29 PM  

You bring up an interesting point. LA, Chicago, NY, all those places you mentioned are major metropolitan areas while I live in a small city.

And if Obama gets his way, vibrancy will soon come to your city, and then things will get... interesting.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 2:38 PM  

Sigyn, the Alte of Asgard.

You're just mad you don't have a hyperspace interminator.

You can have Wilson, though. Just wear earplugs.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2014 2:49 PM  

Does the Hyperspace Determinator come with flux capacitors?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 2:55 PM  

Does the Hyperspace Determinator come with flux capacitors?

Don't be silly. Flux capacitors are fictional.

Anonymous Hermione July 19, 2014 3:06 PM  

Delurking to share this, but I do wonder if the people excusing the police for killing a guy over a tax can come up with an acceptable defense of this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2677972/Toddler-disfigured-police-grenade-thrown-crib-leaves-hospital-month-suffering-horrific-injuries-require-surgeries.html.

I am surprised that didn't get more coverage than it did. I can't possibly imagine why people are getting suspicious of the cops, because police killing dogs, shooting at cars with infants inside, killing people over untaxed cigarettes, shooting children accidentally while trying to shoot dogs, and throwing grenades in baby cribs aren't *that* bad, right guys?

Blogger ajw308 July 19, 2014 3:27 PM  

The majority of the 600k or so cops in the country are not doing this.
Most Gernans were good, but they didn't stop the Nazi's, most Muslims are good (right?), but they're not stopping the militants, most Russians were good, but they didn't stop Stalin from slaughtering millions, ditto for the Chinese, Cambodians, etc. When there is an element of a group that is evil, the good majority is always irrelevant. It's no different for the cops. Good cops are irrelevant to this discussion as their lack of response shows.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 3:36 PM  

roger u July 19, 2014 2:00 PM
The question is why DMV records aren't accessible by officers.



they ARE.

but you're still avoiding the primary point:
on WHAT BASIS is the retard cop taking you to jail over an expired license?

WHY was that not a simple traffic citation with, at most, a requirement for you to walk home and get somebody else to drive your car home?

the very fact that you were taken to jail and had to bond out is abuse of authority.

but, ya know, he was polite so it's all good.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 3:48 PM  

bob k mando
This happened over ten years ago. The screen in the cops car only showed DOB, address and a motorcycle endorsement. It was the motorcycle endorsement that lent credibility to my argument since the expired license I handed him didn't have it. it was a weird situation, in the end, charges dropped, bond returned and a story to tell.

According to NC law, driving without a valid license is a class 2 misdemeanor punishable by a maximum fine of $1000 and a max jail sentence of 60 days.

Blogger dixiedog July 19, 2014 3:55 PM  

... but your painting all cops with the same brush is no better. The majority of the 600k or so cops in the country are not doing this.

roger u, check out Will Grigg's multiple, detailed exposes of corrupt, dirty, and/or murderous palladins of various states and localities across the United State.

He has written in-depth (and with linked info) about a boatload of cases of federal, state, and local police and prosecutors involved in all manner of blatant corruption, false arrests, murders, etc.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 19, 2014 4:04 PM  

Since Garner was black, the odds are considerably greater that the pale badge-gang bangers in question will be put through a legal colonoscopy and lose their nice pensions. They might still get away with it since the blackrobes making the rules of law tend to like to give the badge-gang carte-blanche for killing, but might have to find new jobs in Texas or elsewhere. If Garner had been a mere YT zek, it wouldn't have even made the nooz.

Anonymous Scintan July 19, 2014 4:05 PM  

A plainclothes NYPD cop violated department protocol by using a chokehold while handcuffing a Staten Island man who died following the arrest, Mayor de Blasio and Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said Friday.

That officer and another cop who arrested Eric Garner, 43, were both placed on desk duty following the controversial Thursday arrest, Bratton said at a press conference.

“The two officers who were engaged in the arrest of the deceased – one is an eight year veteran and the other is a four-year veteran – both officers have been assigned to desk duty pending the investigation,” Bratton said.

“There’s a very high chance that the officer who put him in a chokehold would lose his job,” said a law-enforcement source who is familiar with the investigation.

“It violates protocol. It violates a direct rule which is never to put somebody in a chokehold.”


http://nypost.com/2014/07/18/cops-who-put-man-in-fatal-chokehold-pulled-off-the-streets/


I'm sure the troll will have a suitable response to the mayor and police commissioner.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 19, 2014 4:08 PM  

"Some of you people scare me with how far you'll go to excuse the police"

Actually, I was pointing out that if you can talk, you do not have your airway obstructed to the point that you cannot breathe. You cannot talk without being able to inhale and exhale.

Personally, I would give every cop on scene a fair trial, then a public hanging.
But then I am zero tolerance on government employee misbehavior. Any government employee who breaks any law, rule, regulation, ordinance, or any other act of government enforced upon citizens should be found guilty of violation of the public trust, be hanged by the neck until dead, have all assets forfeited, and have their family made destitute. I don't care if it is a cop going 2 mph over the limit on the way to the doughnut shop or a gang of cops beating a man to death. If a government employee doesn't follow the law to the jot and tittle, then they should be hanged.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 4:21 PM  

Dixiedog,
I am familiar with the site you link to and its not one I have much respect for. That said, I did skim the post and it only mentions 3 episodes of bad conduct and one coward.

It does highlight some systematic problems within municipalities and police departments.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 4:23 PM  

roger u July 19, 2014 3:48 PM
The screen in the cops car only showed DOB, address and a motorcycle endorsement.



that's a problem with NC. the expiry of registration is in the same database as all the rest of that information.





roger u July 19, 2014 3:48 PM
According to NC law, driving without a valid license is a class 2 misdemeanor punishable by a maximum fine of $1000 and a max jail sentence of 60 days.



yeah? that's AFTER CONVICTION. you don't get convicted until you go to traffic court and see a judge.

and note that, by your characterization of that law, it DOESN'T MATTER whether your registration is valid or not. you're being punished for "driving without a valid license", of which you've already admitted guilt.

it was purely at the discretion of the cop to let you go IF he could find database documentation that your license was valid. just as it was his discretion to abuse his authority and take you to jail for a paperwork misdemeanor.



iow, you have no point.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 4:25 PM  

Scintan,
Am I the troll? Because I have already said that the officer who violated the department rules should be punished.


Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 4:26 PM  

I don't care if it is a cop going 2 mph over the limit on the way to the doughnut shop or a gang of cops beating a man to death. If a government employee doesn't follow the law to the jot and tittle, then they should be hanged.

A bit much. I just object to them being given latitude to commit outright murder while the rest of us get jailed for something so small as, say, not having our most current license on us.

Equal rights and all that jazz.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2014 4:33 PM  

Roger U,

Why don't you have much respect for Will Grigg?

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 4:35 PM  

bob k mando,
So, the cop should just tell me to appear in court and let me go without verifying my identity? An expired license is not considered a valid identification in NC, either.

I suppose I could have resisted and then posted here about how much a night stick hurts and how all cops deserve to die or something, but I'm not on a crusade. The truth is I was driving with an expired license and got caught which put me in a position to be subject to the discretion of the deputy. I imagine he though he'd find some pot or something, too, when he searched me.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 4:37 PM  

stg58/Animal Mother,
I have read his stuff that others linked to and he's to libertarian for me. I shouldn't have said I don't have much respect for him, he seem honest enough,I should have just said I disagree with him.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2014 4:43 PM  

Fair enough, Roger. What about him is too libertarian? Putting that aside, do you disagree with his documentation of police brutality across the country?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 4:46 PM  

So, the cop should just tell me to appear in court and let me go without verifying my identity?

They already do this for illegal immigrants all the time, so it's an established precedent.

Equal rights and all that jazz.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 19, 2014 4:54 PM  

Roger,

What department do you work for?


this is an outgrowth of the 'Seize and maintain control of the situation at all costs' doctrine.

Not to quibble Bob, but it's "at all costs to everyone else." Not so much at all costs to themselves. For instance, when someone unspotted is there shooting back (like a nutjob roaming a school or mall and shooting at the people "sheltering in place"), they tend to decide the scene doesn't need to be controlled just quite yet... But an unarmed man, alone against several cops? Oh, yeah, scene needs to be controlled.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 5:08 PM  

stg58/Animal Mother,
My problem with Grigg and others like him is that they only see negative and their language is clearly meant to be inflammatory; terms like police state and totalitarian are thrown around too lightly. While I will agree that we have been becoming more totalitarian over the last hundred or so years and that the police (and society as a whole) are becoming more coarse and violent, we are not yet N Korea. To Griggs, the US becoming N Korea is a foregone conclusion and it comes out in his writing. There's a certain glee about it and that bothers me.

Blogger Glen Filthie July 19, 2014 5:13 PM  

Sorry boys, Maybe it's the neocon in me - but the perp was given lawful orders by peace officers and he chose to resist. Them's the breaks, boys. There are cases of cops abusing their authority but this is not one of them.

Blogger Outlaw X July 19, 2014 5:14 PM  

They will pay for it, people always do and I mean in this life. The reason they seem to get away with it is you don't follow them around for the rest of their life. It's a story then it's over. But them that do such things will drag it around like a big heavy log chain for the rest of their life, some wondering how the chain got there and others realizing they are paying for what they did. The Lord does justice in this life as well as the next.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 5:22 PM  

"Sorry boys, Maybe it's the neocon in me - but the perp was given lawful orders by peace officers and he chose to resist. "

Everyone chooses to resist. Don't you know that dum dum?

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 5:29 PM  

Sorry boys, Maybe it's the neocon in me

Isn't that none of our business?

There are cases of cops abusing their authority but this is not one of them.

They have the authority to kill you for breaking up a fight.

Everyone chooses to resist. Don't you know that dum dum?

That reminds me of that perennial gag where the arrestee says, "You can't do this!" and the cop says, "Book him for resisting arrest."

Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 5:39 PM  

"There are cases of cops abusing their authority but this is not one of them."

Glen, like RogerU, is another one of the morons that thinks anyone that has any contact with the police is a law breaking scumbag. Otherwise he wouldn't be having any contact with the police.

Which is a great tactic if you want to avoid jury duty. When the judge asks if there is any reason you can't be objective about a case, just raise your hand and say, "I know they are all guilty. if they weren't all guilty they wouldn't be here."

Anonymous bob k. mando July 19, 2014 5:46 PM  

roger u July 19, 2014 4:35 PM
So, the cop should just tell me to appear in court and let me go without verifying my identity? An expired license is not considered a valid identification in NC, either.



yep, that's what you're telling us should be done in every case when someone leaves their license at home.

all that crap with him showing you his comp screen was just a dog and pony show, you deserved jail regardless.

you see how it's completely the officers discretion ....




roger u July 19, 2014 5:08 PM
are becoming more coarse and violent



blatantly false. violent crime rates and more specifically police fatality rates ( cop isn't even a top 10 most hazardous job ) have been going down for decades.

of course, now that we're near 50% minority and raising, that's likely to start going back the other way in the near future.



Glen Filthie July 19, 2014 5:13 PM
There are cases of cops abusing their authority but this is not one of them.


chokeholds are universally prohibited to NYPD.

this is an open and shut case of "cops abusing their authority".

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 5:51 PM  

Nate,
"Glen, like RogerU, is another one of the morons that thinks anyone that has any contact with the police is a law breaking scumbag. Otherwise he wouldn't be having any contact with the police. "

Obviously, that's not true since I have related my arrest and I am demonstrably not a law breaking scum bag. However, somebody who has been arrested 33 times over 26 years is, most likely, a career law breaking scumbag.

bob k mando,
"you see how it's completely the officers discretion ...."

Yeah, that's called "power," he had it, I didn't.

"violent crime rates and more specifically police fatality rates ( cop isn't even a top 10 most hazardous job ) have been going down for decades."

While incarceration rates shave been going up. Coincidence?


Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 6:12 PM  

However, somebody who has been arrested 33 times over 26 years is, most likely, a career law breaking scumbag.

Having stepped away from the discussion for a bit and come back to look at this again...

Even if this were true, how does this prove he was breaking any laws this time? And even if he were selling "untaxed cigarettes", how does that justify what the cops did to him?

While incarceration rates shave been going up. Coincidence?

No, assuming that the kids jailed for possessing someone else's prescription cough syrup would have eventually gone on a Robitussin-fueled rampage and killed all those cops.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 6:19 PM  

Sigyn,
"how does that justify what the cops did to him?"
You mean arrest him? That's what cop do.

"kids jailed for possessing someone else's prescription cough syrup "

This is BS. Nobody is in jail purely for possessing somebody else's cough syrup or for "non violent drug charges" unless they have prior convictions for worse things.


Blogger Nate July 19, 2014 6:24 PM  

"However, somebody who has been arrested 33 times over 26 years is, most likely, a career law breaking scumbag. "

That's just it. You ARE a law breaking scumbag. You just are to pig ignorant to realize it. You commit felonies almost every day. You just don't know it and no one has smashed your face in and drug you to jail because of it so you don't think about it.

There is no such thing as a law abiding citizen. it is literally impossible to do in today's society. So remember when you say "law breaking scumbag" you're talking about yourself.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 6:53 PM  

You mean arrest him? That's what cop do.

Well, if what happened in the original story is an ordinary arrest and "what cops do"...thanks for clarifying.

Blogger Outlaw X July 19, 2014 7:12 PM  

When the judge asks if there is any reason you can't be objective about a case, just raise your hand and say, "I know they are all guilty. if they weren't all guilty they wouldn't be here."

At my trial (DUI) the first question my lawer asked to the Jury was ponting at me, "Who here thinks my client is guity?" 80% of the hands went up. He then picked one out and asked her "Why do you think he is guilty?" Her aswer was "Because if he wasn't guilty he wouldn't be here." That was 15 years ago and no one was execused by the judge. When my lawyer came back and sat down I told him "It is over before it started."

They were not only 1gnorant of the law, but it flashed through my mind these people are going to one day regret this thinking when it happens to them or theirs. Jurists like to go home and brag to their friends how they put this guy away, I know because I sat on two criminal juries and one of the biggest concern of the individuals was "What will my friends think I "we let them off." I was disgusted because they were more interested in their reputation than justice. Be hopeful you are never set before a jury.

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 7:19 PM  

Outlaw X,
There was a line from some movie,"A trial is too important to be left up to 12 people to stupid to get out of jury duty" or something like that.



Anonymous hausfrau July 19, 2014 7:22 PM  

Roger u "This is BS. Nobody is in jail purely for possessing somebody else's cough syrup or for "non violent drug charges" unless they have prior convictions for worse things."

There are absolutely people in jail for innocently possessing Sudafed or whatever politicians have decided is the latest scourge. Once again Pro libertate covers this with the usual documentation linked to throughout the article. You are either willfully ignorant of how drug laws are used to entrap normal, non violent people or you live in a bubble. Private prisons that contract with governments are another driving force behind growing incarceration rates. They profit from each prisoner. The police unions and the prison guard unions thrive on criminalizing consensual, non-violent activities. More "criminals" = more arrests to justify their jobs and more civil asset forfeiture to pad their budgets.

Remember the kids for cash scandal? this happens all over. The majority of new prisoners are most certainly non-violent drug offenders as entrapping potheads is a hell of a lot easier and more profitable than going after violent felons.

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/search?q=sudafed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

http://www.jlc.org/current-initiatives/promoting-fairness-courts/luzerne-kids-cash-scandal

Anonymous FP July 19, 2014 7:22 PM  

"Life's not fair and some people are assholes."

Tell that to the gay marriage folks Roger. Their argument is all about equality and fairness. You're saying agents of the state are not required to follow the law.

Anonymous FP July 19, 2014 7:24 PM  

Roger, have you ever bought too much sudafed in a week? Here's a granny who has:

http://reason.com/blog/2009/09/28/hoosier-grandmother-arrested-f

Blogger Outlaw X July 19, 2014 7:28 PM  

One bit of advice. The prosecution works for the county or Sate and they stack the juries with the most likely to convict demographic at the front. You start with number 1 and go through the numbers (each side gets a fixed number of scratches). Have your lawyer ask questions like is my client guilty and watch the hands. It is the people at the back that are the ones that won't raise their hands. If you see this at this point you can have your lawyer tell the judge to shuffle the jury, and they have to do it. I believe in Texas you can do it twice.

Anonymous hausfrau July 19, 2014 7:36 PM  


There are perverse incentives within the system.


"Some states even pay private contractors to send inmates out of state. Alaska guarantees the GEO Group an 80 percent occupancy rate for its facility in Hudson, Colo. California promised to fill 90 percent of the beds at correctional facilities in Arizona, Oklahoma and Mississippi under contracts that expired in June. The facility in Eloy, Ariz., also houses prisoners from Hawaii. And Vermont ships some of its prisoners to a CCA-run facility in Beattyville, Ky."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/19/are-governments-incentivizing-longer-prison-terms/

Anonymous FP July 19, 2014 7:41 PM  

I think my favorite false charge these days is the "marijuna shake" one. The narco dog will of course smell some drugs, giving them pretext to search a car and when they find nothing, any leaves, dirt, seeds etc. is construed as leftover pot or "it looked like marijuana shake" but its just leaves and dirt tracked in by the driver/passengers they'll let you go.

Have you cleaned out your car recently Roger? Say, after the last time you went to the nursery for plants/yard materials?

Oh, and at least this Sheriff's Department is in the black budget wise: http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-mendocino-pot-20140526-story.html

Helps when you can shake people down for their cash.

Anonymous JW July 19, 2014 7:50 PM  

"roger u July 19, 2014 11:29 AM
Chris mallory,
Good point, I didn't think of that. Doesn't change the fact that he knew he was breaking the law."

Hi Chris, Where is your evidence that he knew he was breaking the law?

Do you know every law, rule, regulation, court interpretation, that is in effect in every town, city, county, state, country, that you travel in?

Some time back some TV talking head stated that on average every person breaks three felonies a day. When you have hundreds of laws, rules, regulations, etc. that you have no idea exist, how do you know you are not "breaking the law"?

Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 8:00 PM  

FP,
You said that some cops had given you "attitude" not that they violated the law.

hausfrau,
reading through the freedom in our time link:
Diane Avera's story is not entirely convincing, especially with her crack head son,

The other story is boiler plate end the war drugs drivel. For the record,I agree with Griggs that the war on drugs is not really being fought, or is being fought for profit.

In the Kids For Cash scandal, they were caught and punished. Hopefully, the victims will get a big settlement.

But if you're implying that all courts and prisons are corrupt, I could say the same thing about churches due to all of the pedophile priests/pastors and financial scandals. I can point to gross misconduct in any large institution. One example is not something happening "all the time."



Anonymous roger u July 19, 2014 8:09 PM  

FP,
from the linked article,"Because clearly the best way to prevent meth-addicted babies is to arrest women who buy cold medication for their grandchildren." The question is what is her grandson doing with it? How are the cops supposed to know that grandson isn't making meth.

There was an article a while ago about an old woman who shot by some black thugs. The article was a point and splutter about how violent black people are they'll even shoot grandma! Turns out grandma was running an illegal gambling parlor and these were two of her customers. The "can you believe they arrested granny!?" angle is a favorite of sensationalists.

JW,
He had been arrested for the same thing several times over the last decade and a half, he knew the law. Its in the story.

Blogger mmaier2112 July 19, 2014 8:21 PM  

roger u July 19, 2014 5:08 PM
To Griggs, the US becoming N Korea is a foregone conclusion and it comes out in his writing. There's a certain glee about it and that bothers me.


And with this you prove yourself dummer than a box of hair.

Anonymous Sigyn July 19, 2014 8:26 PM  

The question is what is her grandson doing with it? How are the cops supposed to know that grandson isn't making meth.

She was buying it for triplets. I think one could reasonably assume they'd tear through one box pretty quickly, even with normal use. That incident was clearly a group of people wanting to make arrests and convictions.

You're really reaching at this point.

He had been arrested for the same thing several times over the last decade and a half, he knew the law. Its in the story.

It's in the story that he'd been arrested, not that he'd ever been convicted. It's also not in the story that he was actually committing any crime, just that the cops wanted to arrest him--after applying some of their "legal authority", of course.

Now that I've repeated that several times and it doesn't seem to have sunk in, I shrug and go see what my husband is up to. He's guaranteed to be more fun.

Anonymous Anonymous July 19, 2014 9:07 PM  

But if you're implying that all courts and prisons are corrupt,

No one's implying that; that's a strawman you've invented so you can defend the cops from its extremism. Have fun with it, but it doesn't involve us.

We've implied -- we've said -- that there's a lot more corruption in the police today than most people who don't have to deal with them on a regular basis realize, that there's an us-versus-them culture in the cops that prevents the corrupt and sloppy ones from being punished and removed, and that this problem is getting worse fast.

The only absolutist here is you, who seem to sure that every person who undergoes multiple arrests must be a criminal, and that any time a cop looks bad there must be a good explanation. As long as you keep abiding by the laws as far as you know, and don't associate with the lower classes, and don't have some bad luck, maybe you'll be able to go on believing that.

Anonymous DT July 19, 2014 9:08 PM  

I live in a community of < 1/4 million and we have at least 1 cop who's job is to cycle through the gas stations and convienence stores and find untaxed cigarettes. Packs with the tax stamp less than 75% affixed (or some silly percentage, I'm not sure exactly what it is, though I've listened to the guy tell his stories) will generate fines and get the cigarettes confiscated under suspicion of being untaxed counterfeits.

The British are coming! The British are coming!

Oh...wait...wrong year. My bad.

Anonymous DT July 19, 2014 9:12 PM  

The question is what is her grandson doing with it? How are the cops supposed to know that grandson isn't making meth.

This has to be the most retarded comment I've read on any forum in the past 3 months. Are you a police officer?

Anonymous Porky July 19, 2014 9:47 PM  

You bring up an interesting point. LA, Chicago, NY, all those places you mentioned are major metropolitan areas while I live in a small city. Could be that has something to do with both the problem and the media attention.

So you think that cops are only corrupt in major metropolitan areas?

Anonymous hausfrau July 19, 2014 10:52 PM  

"Almost two-thirds of the agreements between county and local governments and private prison contractors have occupancy rate clauses, the study found. And in several states, those rates are sky-high: Three Arizona contracts require 100 percent occupancy; three Oklahoma contracts guarantee 98 percent occupancy. Two contracts in Louisiana guarantee that 96 percent of prison beds will be filled."

You're dismissing contractual obligations by states to maintain high rates of prison occupancy as "boiler plate drivel"? You really don't see how institutionalized corruption of this sort incentivizes false arrests or arrests of non-violent offenders for trivial offenses from the prosecutors office on down to the cop on the street?

Anonymous Mr. Stubby July 19, 2014 11:03 PM  

Hell, the Nazi's even expected the Jews to obey the law all the way to beyond the gas chambers.

It's the law! It must be all that is holy and righteous and virtuous!

Anonymous FP July 19, 2014 11:08 PM  

"FP,
You said that some cops had given you "attitude" not that they violated the law."

Sigh. If they can spit in my face and I have to kiss their boots in response, what makes you think they wont falsely arrest me to punish me. Cops with authority to end my life don't have to hold themselves to a high standard but I have to just take it?

Anonymous FP July 19, 2014 11:11 PM  

"The question is what is her grandson doing with it? How are the cops supposed to know that grandson isn't making meth. "

Its logic like this that lead Oregon to require prescriptions for sudafed, increasing the cost to average consumers at least triple. Yet, meth is still available in state via mexican cartels trucking it in.

Anonymous [name removed by NSA] July 20, 2014 12:14 AM  

This whole situation with the selling of "loosies" is a direct result of Bloomberg and the psychotic, anti tobacco, lefts war on cigarettes. The over taxation has created a boom in the illegal trafficking of smokes from out of state.
Back when I was a smoker you could go into any store and buy a loosie for a nickel. Today they sell for a dollar. At 13 dollars a pack, one can make a 7 dollar profit.
In this sh!t economy, it's not suprising a brother would be out there trying to make a buck. Ive seen these guys out in Brooklyn near subway entrances selling loosies. They seem to do alright.
Wait till it gets worse and the brothers start fighting back against the murdering pigs.

NWA was right.
Not surprised to see trolling pigs here. You see them in every police brutality/murder stories comment section.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 20, 2014 1:02 AM  

roger u July 19, 2014 5:51 PM
Yeah, that's called "power," he had it, I didn't.



because roger doesn't believe in the Bill of Rights. cuz that's just a useless old piece of paper scribbled on by sexist, homophobic cisprivileged dead white men.


roger u July 19, 2014 5:51 PM
While incarceration rates shave been going up. Coincidence?


not coincidence in the least.

you'd have been incarcerated had you not been able to bond out.

but you don't have a problem with that, so it's all good.

i suppose we could get into the percentage of prison pop that are non-violent drug offenders but, frankly, you aren't worth wasting the time.



roger u July 19, 2014 6:19 PM
You mean arrest him? That's what cop do.



this is what happens when you try to reason with an assmonger who's handle is a colloquialism for "Fuck You".

Anonymous Michael July 20, 2014 8:05 AM  

So why don't all the other citizens around the vicinity see what's happening and intervene to stop the assault by the police? I just don't understand. The only reason the police get away with this is because they gang up on one individual. Imagine if Americans actually stood together and prevented this abuse of power.

Anonymous MontyDraxel July 20, 2014 10:57 AM  

What happened to being a peace officer? Hand the guy a citation and move along.

Everyone should be terrified that the police are being militarized. There is no reason for small towns (or any town/city) to have an MRAP anti-IED armored troop carrier. http://the-libertarian.co.uk/small-town-receives-free-mrap-military-vehicle/

Unless they expect to be fighting an insurgency in the near future...

Anonymous Joe Friday July 20, 2014 11:12 AM  

In the end, the police will generally serve the community well by catching the bad guys. Perhaps the arm chair warriors here ought to a) walk the beat every night in their neighborhoods and b) serve on citizen police oversight committees.

Anonymous joe doakes July 20, 2014 11:45 AM  

In the olden days, cops who killed criminals were called Death Squad and they were Bad Guys. Maybe if we transfer these cops to DHS and assign them to the Quality of Life Panel, the Death Squad can join the Death Panel and become Good Guys. Might make a wonderful redemption story ala Darth Vader or Maleficent.

Blogger Miss Carnivorous July 20, 2014 12:08 PM  

I think Mr. Stubby is right and that the victim, and he is a victim, was selling single cigarettes out of a pack. I read about a family in the south that used to drive to a town to buy candy and resell it to rural residents who could not drive to town. Did they deserve the death penalty?? When I lived on Treasure Island naval base our commissary did not sell the cool candy, Bottle Caps, for instance. Kids from Hunter's Point in San Francisco where being bused onto the island to attend elementary school for purposes of desegregation. They used to sell us navy brats the "good stuff" candy for a small profit. Did they deserve the death penalty??

Anonymous damaged justice July 20, 2014 12:51 PM  

I assume Joe Friday believes there are "bad guys" other than people who aggress against life, liberty and property, who likewise deserve to be executed by the gun of the law.

Anonymous map July 20, 2014 3:21 PM  

"Everyone should be terrified that the police are being militarized. There is no reason for small towns (or any town/city) to have an MRAP anti-IED armored troop carrier. http://the-libertarian.co.uk/small-town-receives-free-mrap-military-vehicle/"

Of course, that is a lot of military gear under local control to be used against the feds.

Blogger Jefferson Selvy July 20, 2014 5:43 PM  

David Codrea's "Only Ones" files are an excellent source as well.

Anonymous Heaviside July 20, 2014 6:49 PM  

And people call National Socialist Germany a police state! Did you know that it had fewer cops per capita than either the modern FRG or our beloved USA?

What we need are secret police to keep the regular police on their toes.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 20, 2014 9:22 PM  

Because some people expect others to do the work.

http://www.copblock.org/
http://www.policemisconduct.net/
http://reason.com/topics/police-brutality

Anonymous Bill Gannon July 21, 2014 12:24 AM  

"I assume Joe Friday believes there are "bad guys" other than people who aggress against life, liberty and property, who likewise deserve to be executed by the gun of the law."

Most cops follow the law. Those don't get punished. Join a citizen board to keep "bad cops" in line if you are concerned.

Blogger automatthew July 21, 2014 1:12 AM  

"Most cops follow the law. Those don't get punished."

Punished with paid leave. Yep.

Anonymous Anonymous July 22, 2014 9:50 AM  


roger u/Joe Friday/Bill Gannon/similar,

Re: "Most police are honest"

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Exhibit D

Exhibit E

Now, some commentary about the increasing hostility of LE toward the citizenry they're supposed "to serve & protect" from The Left & The Right. And should you/your LE apologist compatriots decide to peddle the old 'LE's a dangerous job so cops need to be cut a lot of slack' line, take note of this item & this item.


Cassandra (of Troy)

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 22, 2014 10:28 AM  

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/07/the-story-surrounding-death-of-eric.html?m=1

...

“Plain and simple, the police were harassing an innocent man,” Orta said.

Orta insisted police were busting Garner because of a long prior relationship based on previous incidents, and no because of anything he was doing last Friday.

He said Garner had actually just arrived to the scene to break up a fight between strangers when police arrived.

“He intervened and broke up the fight, and that’s when the cops pulled up, let the two guys walk away and kept their attention toward him,” Orta said.

At the time of his arrest, Garner told the officers who confronted him that he had not done anything wrong, according to the video of the arrest.

“Every time you see me, you want to mess with me. I’m tired of it. It stops today,” Garner shouts. “I’m minding my business. Please just leave me alone.”

Anonymous Joe Friday July 23, 2014 12:26 AM  

Exhibit A--Law enforcement is honest in their lying, trickery, and other types of non-coercive methods to obtain a confession from a suspect.

Exhibit B--Law enforcement uses lying in their undercover investigations of child pornography, for example, in their efforts to be truthful to justice.

Exhibit C--Law enforcement, as a general rule, does not lie on the stand when asked direct questions about their investigation. They provide facts into evidence. It is up to the jury to determine whether that evidence is truthful or untruthful.

Exhibit D--Law enforcement does not lie when giving Miranda Rights.

Exhibit E--Law enforcement is not lying in this case, but merely presenting a more desired way to conduct business.


Indeed, deaths are increasingly rare for police officers because of new technology and new ways to diffuse potentially deadly situations. Your point?

Blogger Akulkis July 25, 2014 4:17 AM  

600k cops nationwide. Michigan alone has 700,000 deer hunters every November.

When this nation finally goes over the brink and starts engaging in internal violence, a lot of cops' last thoughts, as they lay on the side of the road, bleeding out, are going to be how they wished they hadn't pissed of their neighbors by spending so much time hassling ordinary people going about their business over some stupid technicality, just so they can replay their days of being high school hallway bully.

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