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Wednesday, July 16, 2014

Pinkshirts running amok

No doubt they'll be completely astonished when their sales collapse by 80 percent:
Marvel is excited to announce an all-new era for the God of Thunder in brand new series, THOR, written by Jason Aaron complimented with art from Russell Dauterman. This October, Marvel Comics evolves once again in one of the most shocking and exciting changes ever to shake one of the “big three” of Captain America, Iron Man and Thor. No longer is the classic Thunder God able to hold the mighty hammer, Mjölnir, and a brand new female hero will emerge worthy of the name THOR.

Series writer Jason Aaron emphasizes, “This is not She-Thor. This is not Lady Thor. This is not Thorita. This is THOR. This is the THOR of the Marvel Universe. But it’s unlike any Thor we’ve ever seen before.”
THOR is the latest in the ever-growing and long list of female-centric titles that continues to invite new readers into the Marvel Universe.
The astonishing thing is that these people actually believe they are the creative ones. Why not turn the WONDER WOMAN into a cross-dressing man? Why not transform the SUPERMAN into a monkey? Why not change the CAPTAIN AMERICA into a buck private in the Armed Forces of the United Nations?

Intentionally or unconsciously, they confuse self-parody with creativity. They tear down and think they are engaged in creative destruction, only what they rebuild is nothing but a cheap and ugly mockery of what stood there before.

Labels: , ,

245 Comments:

1 – 200 of 245 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 9:08 AM  

this is literally marketing suicide. Study after study has proven that boys will not watch or read comics or cartoons that are about or for girls... but girls do and will read and watch comics and cartoons about and for boys.

Basically marvel has just thrown 80% of its readership away.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 16, 2014 9:11 AM  

Not really new or creative. Back in the 80's, Marvel replaced the blonde, Nordic human Thor with a horse faced, swarthy alien named Beta Ray Bill.

Nick Fury was transformed from a white WW2 commando turned spy into Samuel Jackson.
There was a Captain America story where we learned that blond, white boy Steve Rogers wasn't the first Cap. That honor was held by an oppressed black man experimented on in a Tuskegee like medical test.

Anonymous vevets July 16, 2014 9:15 AM  

Yeah, Nate, but just think of all the potential unleashed by giving girlz that the Unreal is really,really neat!
And good effing grief, autocorrect just corrected my first typing of" girlz" to" childhood". No agenda there, no sir.

Blogger Shimshon July 16, 2014 9:18 AM  

I think, beyond the obvious agenda the pinkshirts keep pushing, these guys think they're Joss Whedon. Note to idiots: Joss Whedon has moved past Buffy, and Firefly, and...never mind (and I enjoyed both shows).

Anonymous Daniel July 16, 2014 9:19 AM  

Wonder Woman and Batgirl are two of DC's lowest-selling "feature" titles of long-standing heroes and those are their only titles (compare to Batman, who has several titles of his own, each one of them selling 3 to 4 times more than either of the big girls titles. In fact, when DC changed "Batman and Robin" to "Batman and Batgirl" sales plummeted). Power Girl's most well known superpower is double-ds on an otherwise size 2, and she doesn't move books.

Lady Thorette is a ridiculous publicity move, but terrible business. Comics suck nowadays, not because they are childish and universal and semi-literate (like the good old days) but because they are "edgy" and pc and "adult".

Anonymous Saul Alinsky July 16, 2014 9:19 AM  

Ha ha. Joke's on you...

Sales is not the metric they use to keep score.

Anonymous Hardhat July 16, 2014 9:21 AM  

Their PR Department must finally have ran out of "XYZ Superhero is Gay" press releases:

http://nypost.com/2012/06/01/dc-comics-green-lantern-relaunched-as-gay-superhero/

Anonymous Axeman July 16, 2014 9:21 AM  

And Spiderman was ethnicitized back 2011. However, sales were not very good.

Anonymous Alexander July 16, 2014 9:22 AM  

I for one look forward to 1776 with Jenny Adams, Belle Franklin, and Tammy Jefferson singing about writing the first Charter of Equality, which protects people of all genders, races, and religions and seizes the evil southern states away from the evil cismale overlords.

Then we'll know equality.

Anonymous SixtusVIth July 16, 2014 9:22 AM  

Study after study has proven that boys will not watch or read comics or cartoons that are about or for girls...

Mostly correct, but boys will watch/read if the "girls" are put into a stereotypically male plot and are given stereotypically male behavioral features. c.f. Ripley in Aliens, and a host of poorly done imitations trying to be "ass kicking women" and failing to understand that all tough female characters are really male characters in women's bodies, placed in situations where their nominal gender doesn't matter and disappears from consciousness.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 9:24 AM  

to be fair, this is not the first time someone other than Thor has been able to lift Mjölnir:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Ray_Bill


you notice though, that Simonson didn't actually say that 'old Thor' was no longer worthy. he just gave the new character a new hammer.

the 'innovation' here is that the Thor identity is no longer intrinsic to the person but is now invested in the object. it is as if the ability to fly *and the name* were dependent on who was holding Dumbo's feather ...

i'll leave it to others to explain what the purpose of this abstraction might be, that they are so desirous of showing that ability is related to external rather than intrinsic factors.


i'm also curious as by what metric Thorita is supposed to be 'worthy' to heft the hammer. somehow, i doubt that the new guys have the grasp of the situation that Simonson does:
"So I thought, well that means someone else can pick up this hammer and get this power, if they're worthy! ... This is the most powerful weapon of the Norse gods. This hammer is a killing weapon. It's used to kill Frost Giants and others. So, Superman couldn't pick it up, cause he's never going to kill anyone, and the hammer knows that. Captain America, he's too patriotic. He's too much a symbol of America to be chosen by this Norse artifact. So he couldn't get it. So I created Bill because he's noble, and he's designed to kill. He's got a great purpose as a warrior, and also the noble ability. That makes him "worthy" whatever that may be."



you notice how the new movies are diametrically opposed to the +1000 years understanding of the character and Norse society?

in the movies, Thor is cast out of Asgard why? for fighting? but Valhalla is the home and final reward of warriors who died in glorious battle? how does that make any damn sense whatsoever?

otoh, the movies DO conform to modern progressive 'morality' so everything is hunkydory.

Anonymous YIH July 16, 2014 9:25 AM  

I'm glad you brought this up. When I came across this yesterday first my chin dropped, then I was sorely tempted to mention this as an 'OT'.
I didn't.
I suspect what is happening is a fading comic book business is doing cheap stunts in a desperate attempt to 'shout above the noise'.

Anonymous Stilicho July 16, 2014 9:25 AM  

Loki strikes again.

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 9:29 AM  

"Sales is not the metric they use to keep score."

joke's on them.. either they respond to the sales drop or they die. Either way is ok with me.

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 9:30 AM  

"to be fair, this is not the first time someone other than Thor has been able to lift Mjölnir:"

That wasn't the first time either. Cap picked up the hammer too.

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 9:34 AM  

Also.. When Cap picked up the hammer he didn't become Thor. The notion that the persona of Thor is in the hammer is not new... in fact it was the original premise of the comic. But if they were being consistent the female character would turn into a male thunder God.

And the fact that they didn't do this just proves that they are bigoted against Trans people.

Anonymous Viking July 16, 2014 9:35 AM  

I probably don't have to tell anyone who my favorite Marvel hero WAS. Damn this pisses me off.

Anonymous Roundtine July 16, 2014 9:36 AM  

Batman will team up with Blade and kill them all.

Anonymous Porky July 16, 2014 9:36 AM  

They tear down and think they are engaged in creative destruction, only what they rebuild is nothing but a cheap and ugly mockery of what stood there before.

Rap music in a nutshell.

Anonymous Roundtine July 16, 2014 9:40 AM  

And the fact that they didn't do this just proves that they are bigoted against Trans people.

4chan did #endfathersday. Why not #marvelistransphobic. I'm pretty sure female THOR would be gone by the end of next week.

Anonymous Eowyn July 16, 2014 9:41 AM  

Imagine coming across a man punching himself in the crotch over and over. Then he looks up at you through his years and grins. When you plead with him to stop, he simply continues to punch himself in the crotch.

That is basically how Marvel is acting.

Blogger JDC July 16, 2014 9:41 AM  

As the inscription states, only those deemed worthy by the enchantments of Mjolnir may even lift the hammer. Those who are worthy of wielding Mjolnir gain all of Thor's powers (with the exception of the godblast). Other than Thor, some others who have been able to wield Mjolnir include: Awesome Android, Beta Ray Bill, Captain America, Red Norvell, Thunderstrike, and Wonder Man. As Thor's ancenstry Odin, Bor and Buri can also wield Mjolnir. The cyborg clone of Thor known as Ragnarok was also able to pick up an alternate universe version of Mjolnir when he and the Thunderbolts traveled to another universe. (Reference: A very nerdy website).

Quote: THOR is the latest in the ever-growing and long list of female-centric titles that continues to invite new readers into the Marvel Universe.

They should add that they are simultaneously inviting a minority while slamming the door on the majority.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 9:43 AM  

Nate July 16, 2014 9:30 AM
That wasn't the first time either. Cap picked up the hammer too.



both Simonson and wiki assert that Bill was the first 'other' ( by issue 340 ) while Cap didn't lift it until ep 390, although even this is not true. Odin and the dwarves who forged the hammer both held Mjölnir *prior to* Thor.

Anonymous MPC July 16, 2014 9:43 AM  

This still doesn't top the fact that the latest Archie comic features the titular character being shot and killed while trying to defend the life of his BEST GAY FRIEND who was campaigning for more gun control. To which Millenials have replied, "Who the fuck is Archie?"

They haven't revealed who the shooter is yet. I hope they do a Vince Russo style swerve where it turns out that it was Jughead, who was secretly gay and wanted Archie for himself.

Blogger IM2L844 July 16, 2014 9:44 AM  

They tear down and think they are engaged in creative destruction, only what they rebuild is nothing but a cheap and ugly mockery of what stood there before.

Yep. There's wide swath of applicable wisdom in that one little sentence.

Blogger JDC July 16, 2014 9:45 AM  

The website I referenced is in error - "Wonder Man" should read "Wonder Woman." I'm surprised the pinkshirts didn't catch that one. What terrible misogyny.

Mjolnir Comic Vine

Anonymous buzzcut July 16, 2014 9:46 AM  

"So like, the other day I went to Starbuck's, and I ordered a skinny decaf latte, and the girl behind the counter said, 'Name?' just like that, like that's a question or something, so I said 'Thorina'. So she was all, 'Your name is Thorina? Really?!?' So I thought, 'Yes, bitch. Thorina. Deal with it!' But I like totally didn't say that, cause there were people behind me, but I could feel the hammer, like, giving me power or something, so I looked right at her name tag, and I said, "Business. Yours. Mind it, Becki." And it totally worked! She shut up, and wrote "Thorina" on the side of my cup with a Sharpie. I felt bad, so I put a dollar in the tip jar, but it was totally worth it. Then I thought, 'You go, grrl!', and I high-fived myself, mentally."

Anonymous Trimegistus July 16, 2014 9:48 AM  

1. Publicity stunt. He'll be back in about a year.
2. Cheesecake.

Anonymous YIH July 16, 2014 9:48 AM  

'Saul Alinsky':
Sales is not the metric they use to keep score.
I don't doubt you; I came across this table in regards to Archie Comics:
That leaves us with two comics. These are the Total Paid and/or Requested Circulation figures that Archie files with the government. The first number is the Average No. Copies Each Issue During Preceding 12 Months; the second is No. Copies of Single Issue Published Nearest to Filing Date.
Title Average Nearest Issue Total Published (Nearest) % Sold of Published
Archie 11,098 11,003 27,668 40%
Betty & Veronica 8,680 9,825 22,631 43%
Kevin Keller 5,532 6,075 15,530 39%
Click the link to see that table in it's original formatting.
In a nutshell, they ain't printing that much - and selling less than half of what they do print!

Blogger Glen Filthie July 16, 2014 9:49 AM  

Stand back, Vox. Let Ol' Doc Filthie take your blog through some high speed aerobatics! Get out your puke bags, girls!
You Yanks think CNN and ABC are leftwing propaganda tools? Behold the Canadian BROADcasting Corporation!!! It is a pulpit for leftwing faggots, feminists, and Marxist fools who couldn't get jobs slinging coffee in Starbucks! Here is what they say about it!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/the-goddess-of-thunder-marvel-comics-unveils-new-female-thor-1.2707447

Oh. My. God. A muslim superhero...? Didjya see that flit gossiping with the chick with the bad haircut...? Ulp....oh chit, I think I'm gonna hurl...!!!!

GAH! But ya know...a female Thor might make for an excellent porno/comedy flick...

Anonymous Stilicho July 16, 2014 9:50 AM  


Intentionally or unconsciously, they confuse self-parody with creativity. They tear down and think they are engaged in creative destruction, only what they rebuild is nothing but a cheap and ugly mockery of what stood there before.


It is a small step from Autumn People to orcish hordes.

Anonymous Stickwick July 16, 2014 9:54 AM  

The salt in the wound is that the reason there's a new, female Thor is that the old, male one was no longer worthy of the hammer. The writers couldn't have him retire or go to another dimension or die, no, he has to be unworthy in order for the female character to replace him.

SixtusVIth: Mostly correct, but boys will watch/read if the "girls" are put into a stereotypically male plot and are given stereotypically male behavioral features. c.f. Ripley in Aliens, and a host of poorly done imitations trying to be "ass kicking women" and failing to understand that all tough female characters are really male characters in women's bodies, placed in situations where their nominal gender doesn't matter and disappears from consciousness.

Ripley wasn't stereotypically male, at least not in the first two Alien movies. She was emotional, she was completely ineffectual against Ash when he was beating her up, and she was terrified as she prepared to abandon ship -- this is all stuff that would never be portrayed in a female action/sci-fi character these days, and that's what made her so compelling. Nobody watches Aliens for Vasquez, who is stereotypically male; they watch it for Ripley, who is the kind of woman I think a lot of men prefer -- realistically tough and courageous within the boundaries of being female.

Anonymous Barko Ramius July 16, 2014 9:59 AM  

I use to thumb through Archie comics to check out the chick renderings. They were done well and I was young and full o beans.
So Archie took one for team homo..thats hilarious. Bet the shooter turns out to be a White guy, rather than the more statistically accurate vibrant.
Is there no threshold these pinkshirts wont lea across?

Blogger Crowhill July 16, 2014 10:02 AM  

So the message here is that the way for a woman to succeed is to appropriate the accomplishments of a man.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 10:03 AM  

Nate July 16, 2014 9:34 AM
The notion that the persona of Thor is in the hammer is not new... in fact it was the original premise of the comic.



uhhh, i don't think that's quite correct. Thor's identity and abilities were HIDDEN by Odin's curse unless Blake pounded his walking stick on the ground. it's not that he didn't have his powers, it's that he couldn't access them due to Odin's interference.

more to the point, WHEN others lifted the hammer Thor did NOT get divested of his own natural abilities and have them transferred to others. yes, they often got snazzy costume flair for lifting it and, of course, the powers of the hammer itself. but that's not quite the same thing.

but we are talking about Stan Lee, so i'm not going to be surprised if somebody digs up some ancient storyline from the 1960s where just that did happen.

Anonymous MontyDraxel July 16, 2014 10:05 AM  

Anyone that reads a comic book past the age of 16, as entertainment and not nostalgia, should be mocked.

But we see adults glued to cartoons, my little pony and superhero movies. The theory that young boys are being poisoned (inadvertently or internationally) through hormones seems to be more likely a real thing. Tens of millions of women pissing female birth control down into the water supply, xenoestrogens from industrial plastics, hormone-laden food - like a mass conspiracy to cripple testosterone. Add in young boys no longer playing outside...

It would go a long way to explaining the pussification of western nations.

Anonymous Michael July 16, 2014 10:08 AM  

Unreal. PC agenda run amok.

Get this: they're going to have the comic character Archie die taking a bullet for his homosexual best friend, Keller, "a married military veteran and newly elected senator who's pushing for more gun control in Riverdale after his husband was involved in a shooting."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/07/14/Comic-Character-Archie-To-Die-Taking-Bullet-For-Gay-Friend

I also recall hearing about Hollywood turning Spiderman and Superman into homosexuals.

Though they like to fancy themselves enlightened and progressive, these people are heathens pushing a godless agenda. That's why you'll note that militant feminists, homosexuals and secular-atheists form a united front against Christianity, the source of all our human rights, moral dignity and true progress. The more society is led down the path of moral relativism, materialism, debauchery and Marxism, the further it strays from God and thus resembles a totalitarian hell.

Anonymous Will Best July 16, 2014 10:11 AM  

This must be how Joss Weadon plans on adding females to Avengers 3

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 10:12 AM  

"uhhh, i don't think that's quite correct. Thor's identity and abilities were HIDDEN by Odin's curse unless Blake pounded his walking stick on the ground. it's not that he didn't have his powers, it's that he couldn't access them due to Odin's interference."

BOB YOU IGNORANT SLUT!

It was a setup for the tranny joke man... Jesus you fucking comic nerds and your minutia...

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 10:13 AM  

"This must be how Joss Weadon plans on adding females to Avengers 3"

Scarlet Witch.

Anonymous Stickwick July 16, 2014 10:15 AM  

"Saul Alinsky": Ha ha. Joke's on you...

Sales is not the metric they use to keep score.


Quite. I think it was John Nolte who first started pounding the idea with conservatives that it's not all about the money. So, what is it about? And why should we care if progressives succeed in effectively killing off yet another superhero? Consider this quote by C.S. Lewis: “Since it is so likely that [children] will meet cruel enemies, let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage. Otherwise you are making their destiny not brighter but darker.”

Anonymous Michael July 16, 2014 10:16 AM  

MontyDrexel, "Anyone that reads a comic book past the age of 16, as entertainment and not nostalgia, should be mocked."

I disagree. Regardless, the objective is obviously to corrupt the minds of children so that they grow up as obedient serfs with no moral compass.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 10:17 AM  

Nate July 16, 2014 10:12 AM
Scarlet Witch.



comic nerds? where? i don't see any.

Blogger James Dixon July 16, 2014 10:17 AM  

> ...and a brand new female hero will emerge worthy of the name THOR.

They already had one. She went by the name "Storm".

> ... to be fair, this is not the first time someone other than Thor has been able to lift Mjölnir:

Cap was able to lift the hammer in one story, IIRC.

> That wasn't the first time either. Cap picked up the hammer too.

I thought Bill came before the time Cap did it. But that was 20 or so years ago, and my memory may be faulty. I haven't picked up a Marvel comic since the early 90's.

> ... Odin and the dwarves who forged the hammer both held Mjölnir *prior to* Thor.

The hammer hadn't been enchanted yet when the dwarves carried it, and Odin is the one who enchanted it. Per, the Marvel mythos, of course.

Blogger Bill Solomon July 16, 2014 10:18 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger IM2L844 July 16, 2014 10:19 AM  

And good effing grief, autocorrect just corrected my first typing of" girlz" to" childhood". No agenda there, no sir.

They'll no doubt soon be removing the override feature from that one.

Anonymous Porphyry July 16, 2014 10:19 AM  

The whole point of the Thor figure in comic books is that he's somewhat more high and noble than other super heroes, and the editors enjoy bringing him down to size, just like Dickens enjoyed bringing down the myth in general. I wouldn't be surprised to see "The Adventures of Thor and Puppies: a fun Trip to the Mall" soon.

Anonymous PA July 16, 2014 10:22 AM  

Pearl Jam, and possibly Grunge as a whole nose dove when Eddie Vedder surmised that young rock fans want to listen to sings about old women and unhaaapy girlfriends.

Anonymous Heh July 16, 2014 10:24 AM  

Many years ago my buddy and I were in a coffee shop and the barista was a total flamer whose name tag said "Thor".

Oh what a fine time we had with that one afterward -- "boy my ass is Thor from last night" etc.

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 10:24 AM  

"comic nerds? where? i don't see any."

Actually I just saw it on the hype for avengers 3.

Anonymous Idle Spectator July 16, 2014 10:28 AM  

Why not turn the WONDER WOMAN into a cross-dressing man? Why not transform the SUPERMAN into a monkey? Why not change the CAPTAIN AMERICA into a buck private in the Armed Forces of the United Nations?

Why not, indeed? That's why you are the soup intelligence. The wheels are always turning.

Anonymous hygate July 16, 2014 10:30 AM  

Didn't Sarah Hoyt describe this dynamic in regards to magazine publishing just a few weeks ago?

When the enterprise is dying because you are offering poorly written propaganda that can't be sold to anyone but hard leftists, the solution is not to start offering something that appeals to a broader audience, it is to go even harder left.

That way you still get invited to the right parties and when the enterprise fails it isn't because of you! It's because people are phillistines. And you get rewarded with an another job where you can destroy another enterprise.

Anonymous damaged justice July 16, 2014 10:32 AM  

And of course the pinks will learn nothing from the last time a woman wielded Mjolnir (see WHAT IF? Volume 2, #66, geekfendi).

Anonymous SFWA Reader July 16, 2014 10:34 AM  

Can we at least get a *SPOILER ALERT* next time? Common courtesy!

"Why not turn the WONDER WOMAN into a cross-dressing man? Why not transform the SUPERMAN into a monkey? Why not change the CAPTAIN AMERICA into a buck private in the Armed Forces of the United Nation"

Anonymous YIH July 16, 2014 10:37 AM  

Axeman:
And Spiderman was ethnicitized back 2011. However, sales were not very good.
Yup, they even turned Spidey into Trayvon.
You think I'm kidding don't you?
Caution: image host may have porn ads.

Anonymous Michael Maier July 16, 2014 10:38 AM  

James Dixon July 16, 2014 10:17 AM > ...and a brand new female hero will emerge worthy of the name THOR.

They already had one. She went by the name "Storm".



Nope. Never happened. (Sadly, even Marvel's "executive director" is making this same moronic assertion.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 10:39 AM  

Nate July 16, 2014 10:24 AM
Actually I just saw it on the hype for avengers 3.



[ Spockbrow ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Sdxrkyui8

Blogger Hanns Strudle extra gooey July 16, 2014 10:41 AM  

Vince Russo name drop = thread winner!

Anonymous Randy M July 16, 2014 10:43 AM  

"Loki strikes again."

This thread is definately crying out for a triumphant mocking from Loki of Asgard.

Blogger Chiva July 16, 2014 10:45 AM  

I read about this new THOR yesterday and thought it was a joke being played out. But I am dumbfounded to learn it is for real.

My first thought on this is just think of the story-lines that can be generated about her sexuality and gender choices. You know it will go there.

Anonymous Logan July 16, 2014 10:51 AM  

You know what, I'm perfectly fine with Thor being a woman. You know why? Cause I saw the last 300 movie, and that movie, like, TOTALLY convinced me that chicks can kick ass just as well as guys.

Anonymous Creativity Inc. July 16, 2014 10:53 AM  

This movie/TV show/comic book script idea is available for anyone who takes it ... provided you pay me 5% of gross:

Take the 1980s TV show "Diff'rent Strokes" but re-imagine it where Phillip Drummond is a single mom, and Arnold and Willis are both gay.

NOW THERE IS A REBOOT!

Blogger Mekadave July 16, 2014 10:56 AM  

Sigh... so apparently Marvel's YET AGAIN forgotten the mid-90's lesson of the Spider-Man Clone story arc retcon disaster. Those who don't learn from history.....

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 July 16, 2014 10:56 AM  

Eh, this is less than nothing until they swap out the guy playing Thor for a chick playing Whor in the movies.
No one reads the source material anymore, they only go to the movies and watch the TV shows.
Then, if they want to complain, they'll compare the movie or TV show to the source material's wiki page to inform their rant.
Until Charlize Theron is cast with a hammer in Avengers 9: A Collection of Paychecks, it's just another stunt, right along with every death of a superhero, the Mexican Spiderman, the tea-party hatin' Captian America, and on and on and on.
Don't mean shit till it appears in the movie.

Blogger Zaklog the Great July 16, 2014 10:59 AM  

@damaged justice

I'm glad you mentioned Rogue wielding Mjolnir in What If?. It saved me the embarrassment of being the only comics nerd here.

Anonymous Joseph Dooley July 16, 2014 11:04 AM  

A study shows 3% of Americans identity as LGBT, implying a 3% representation in comics, novels, movies, etc. This goes about it all wrong. The actual ratio of LGBT characters should be at least 10%, as in a 10% tithe to the LGBT gods.

Anonymous p-dawg July 16, 2014 11:07 AM  

@nate: Boys won't watch cartoons aimed at girls, eh? Methinks you should do a google search for "Bronies" and prepare to eat those words. Then probably throw them back up if you're still looking at bronies.

Anonymous Aptronym July 16, 2014 11:09 AM  

@JDC:
"The website I referenced is in error - "Wonder Man" should read "Wonder Woman." I'm surprised the pinkshirts didn't catch that one. What terrible misogyny."

No, Wonder Woman is a DC character. Wonder Man belongs to Marvel and bears almost no resemblance. It's just one of those oddities from the old days, like DC having a hero named Captain Marvel. Why Wonder Man would be able to life Mjolnir, however, I have no idea.

Blogger Dwight House July 16, 2014 11:10 AM  

Mostly correct, but boys will watch/read if the "girls" are put into a stereotypically male plot and are given stereotypically male behavioral features. c.f. Ripley in Aliens, and a host of poorly done imitations trying to be "ass kicking women" and failing to understand that all tough female characters are really male characters in women's bodies, placed in situations where their nominal gender doesn't matter and disappears from consciousness.
OR, if the reader/viewer has no first-hand knowledge of a the gender-strength differences of the wildly different species that is the protagonist of the story. See My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.

Anonymous Brother Thomas July 16, 2014 11:11 AM  

Test

Anonymous The Truth July 16, 2014 11:13 AM  

I would watch Kat Dennings play a female Thor. But then again, she has awesome boobies, so I'd watch her in pretty much anything.

Blogger James Dixon July 16, 2014 11:13 AM  

> Nope. Never happened.

She never used Thor's hammer, no. But there was an Asgardian crossover arc in which she wielded a similar hammer created by Loki, I believe.

See http://marvel.wikia.com/Ororo_Munroe_%28Earth-616%29

While vacationing with the kids later, the group was subsequently captured by the
Asgardian trickster God, Loki. After witnessing her battle hordes of demons, Loki sought to use Storm in one of his schemes to discredit his half-brother, the Thunder God Thor, by giving her a hammer, Stormcaster, that would restore her abilities and making her the new Goddess of Thunder. With the aid of the X-Men and the New Mutants, Storm was able to reject Loki's gifts, thus thwarting his plan.

> I'm glad you mentioned Rogue wielding Mjolnir in What If?.

That must have been after I stopped reading.

Anonymous Aptronym July 16, 2014 11:17 AM  

@Nate:
"And the fact that they didn't do this just proves that they are bigoted against Trans people."

They beat you to the punch. A few years ago, Loki was running around as a woman due to a botched resurrection. (All part of the plan, naturally.) Eventually he regained his old body, died again, came back as a child, and then aged up to teenager. Make of that what you will.

Blogger The Remnant July 16, 2014 11:21 AM  

A buddy of mine is a Thor fanatic who dresses up in full costume for all those conventions. Even though he's a lefty feminist, he's now bellowing his outrage on Facebook.

Anonymous Daniel July 16, 2014 11:24 AM  

While Hulk is more consistently focused on identity issues (Bruce Banner - Grey Hulk - Green Hulk - Mr. Fixit - all different Gamma (both radiation and sociosexual) identities of a fatherless son), Tales of Mystery (Thor's first appearance) have traditionally used Thor's identity of "worthiness" many times before. But...Thorina or whatever they aren't calling her should either hate being a woman or despise godhood. That would be the only storyline that has any meaning.

And She-Hulk was some pretty funny stuff for kids. Marvel discrediting her comic (which, again, sold poorly compared to male hero titles, even though half of it was a spoof on the uberwoman) to promote their tired "strong woman, man's job" publicity stunt just shows you how much these Gammas from another (single) mother really hate women.

They are just being creepy. What sort of sickos fantasize about their chicks dressed up as the Thunder God?

Anonymous YIH July 16, 2014 11:31 AM  

Joesph Dooley:
A study shows 3% of Americans identity as LGBT
Not even that many;
Yesterday, a new survey of nearly 35,000 adult Americans by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came out. Guess what?:

Based on the 2013 NHIS data, 96.6% of adults identified as straight, 1.6% identified as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% identified as bisexual. The remaining 1.1% of adults identified as ‘‘something else,’’ stated ‘‘I don’t know the answer,’’ or refused to provide an answer.
Link to .pdf

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 11:31 AM  

Aptronym July 16, 2014 11:17 AM
They beat you to the punch. A few years ago, Loki was running around as a woman due to a botched resurrection.



*facepalm*

at this point i just feel sorry for our Loki. i mean, he could kind of get away with pooh-poohing Sturlson given that he wasn't technically spoofing the Norse trickster god but rather the Marvel characterization thereof.

problem being, he's not in much better hands at Marvel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_%28comics%29#Mighty_Avengers

Blogger Joshua Dyal July 16, 2014 11:33 AM  

And Spiderman was ethnicitized back 2011. However, sales were not very good.

I surmised that that would be the case, but I've had a hard time finding corroborating evidence. Do you know of any?

Anonymous Jack Amok July 16, 2014 11:37 AM  

Sales is not the metric they use to keep score.

Perhaps Argentina should have kept score with a metric other than goals. But they still would have lost, because the world keeps score with goals.

But Huckleberry is right, nobody reads them anyway. My son is 12. He's never been into comics, and neither have any of his friends. Too many video games to play. He thinks the movies are okay, but has zero interest in the 'source material.'

For myself, I couldn't give two-fifths of a tinker's damn about any of these "milieu by committee' projects. It's fanfic run riot.

Anonymous David July 16, 2014 11:37 AM  

Marvel is constantly trying to reinvent itself to increase sales, I still remember all the changes in the 1980s that they eventually all undid, and again the changes in the 1990s. Very little sticks because the change is unpopular. Beta Ray Bill, however, was a change that actually could have stayed though. My understanding was his Thor comic book was selling better than Thor. Until an idiot at Marvel decided that Beta Ray Bill was taking sales away from Thor.

Assuming She-Thor doesn't sell well, it will quietly be dropped.

Anonymous rienzi July 16, 2014 11:38 AM  

I must admit that I am somewhat amazed by this thread, and all the comments. People still read comic books?

I'm an old guy, but way back in the early sixties, NOBODY read these things except the absolute worst of the Omegas and Gammas. The ultimate losers of the small Alabama city I lived in. No Alpha, Beta, Sigma, or even Delta would have been caught dead with a comic book. You would have been ridiculed for the rest of your life. You would probably have been better off coming out as gay.

Have things changed that much? Is this sort of geeky loserness now acceptable? It would go a long way to explaining the way things are now.

Anonymous DrTorch July 16, 2014 11:40 AM  

Didn't Thor become a woman in the Earth X series?

I have to re-read that.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 11:40 AM  

I'm OK with making Thor a woman.

As long as Mjolnir becomes a rolling pin. -- Iowahawk

Anonymous Aptronym July 16, 2014 11:45 AM  

Thor has had a disturbing trend of feminization over the last few years. Asgard is currently being ruled by the "All-Mother" after Odin stepped out: the goddess trio of Gaea, Freyja, and Idunn acting as joint rulers. They renamed the realm "Asgardia" and reformed it into a republic of sorts, ridding the comic of its last traces of the icky patriarchy.

In that light, a female Thor was almost inevitable. The question is whether it's for the good of the comic or the good of the agenda. All signs point to the latter. Thor losing his hammer makes perfect sense as a dramatic arc, and I doubt his replacement will last longer than a year, but this just seems like an excuse for Marvel to fire up the hype machine and show off its progressive credentials.

And that's terrible.

Blogger Nate July 16, 2014 11:48 AM  

'They beat you to the punch. A few years ago, Loki was running around as a woman due to a botched resurrection. "

Except that Loki the Norse God was known to run around as a mortal woman in mythology... so that is actually consistent.

Anonymous David July 16, 2014 11:51 AM  

I'm an old guy, but way back in the early sixties, NOBODY read these things except the absolute worst...
Have things changed that much?


That was 50 years ago. Yes things have changed. Comic books lost some(but not all) of the "loser" quality and geek isn't always "bad". Comic book popularity peaked probably in the 1990s. Today it is having a bit of a resurgence because of the high quality movies.

Anonymous JoeyWheels July 16, 2014 11:51 AM  

I collected off and on throughout the 80's; stopped while I was in college, then started again in the early 90's.
As a one-time aspiring comicbook artist, my collection always leaned towards the quality of the art.
In the early 2000s I started up again during the wave known as "Good Girl Art"; a niche popularized by artists such as Adam Hughes, Joseph Michale Linsner, Mike Deodato, Jr., J. Scott Campbell and others that focused on the buxom(!) uber-heroine.

This is pure stunt casting so that the artist working on this book can draw a hot chick in armor. Joe Quesada (Marvel's Chief Creative Officer) has no shame.

Nothing new has come from The (former) House of Ideas in a long time. When they do catch lightning in a bottle, they tinker with it until it dies. i.e., the Danny Ketch version of Ghost Rider with Mark Texiera handling the art chores.

Anonymous CrisisEraDynamo July 16, 2014 11:51 AM  

@ rienzi

Whiskey at his blog stated that comic books don't make much money at all. According to the post, they're even less relevant now than they were in your day.

Blogger Brad Andrews July 16, 2014 11:52 AM  

They are trying to shove this crud down our throats, which is probably one of their great fantasies.

Anonymous Michael Maier July 16, 2014 11:53 AM  

James Dixon July 16, 2014 11:13 AM > Nope. Never happened.

She never used Thor's hammer, no. But there was an Asgardian crossover arc in which she wielded a similar hammer created by Loki, I believe.



I knew it was X-Men Annual 9 without looking it up.

And there's no reason to believe Loki could or would make a hammer anything like Mjolnir.

1) It was Loki. Why would he enchant the hammer as Odin did even were he able to? (No reason to think he WAS able, either.) There would be nothing to gain by his doing so.

2) Storm destroyed the hammer when rejecting Loki's offer. Nuff said.

Anonymous B Lewis July 16, 2014 11:53 AM  

I worked in the comic book industry as a writer, artist, and editor back in the 1990s. I can assure you that comic books as such have not been profitable since the 1960s. That's right: the companies that own all the major superheroes (Time Warner and Disney) haven't made a dime off publishing comics themselves in decades. The comics are published at a loss in order to a) feed the publicity/hype machine (see Lady Thor, above) and b) to maintain the various copyrights and trademarks. This latter is why we see the occasional reboot/reimagining of an old or lesser-known character (e.g., Red Ryder) -- characters that go out of print risk slipping into public domain territory.

As a comics professional, I have spent many, many hours in green rooms and bars with other pros, and I can guarantee you that 99 out of 100 of them are hardcore Lefties. They're not puppets of some nefarious propaganda conspiracy -- they really and sincerely believe that America is populated by illiterate snake-handling fundie wingnuts who are ready to march homos, feminists, blacks, and Jews into camps and force everybody else to go to church every day. They honestly and sincerely believe that evil corporations (not including Time Warner or Disney of course) and rich Right-wing business types commit most of the crime in this country, that most rape, robbery, and violence are committed by white gun nuts, that America's blacks and Hispanics live lives of vibrant but peaceful dignity in peaceful neighborhoods terrorized by white drug overlords and racist George Zimmerman- type vigilantes, and that the only solution for these problems is a strong, socialist government that will confiscate guns, silence Rush Limbaugh, institute reparations for blacks, lock up any "haters", and provide a free living at middle-class standards to all Americans (including foreigners), with wealth and fame available to those "mutants" whose special creative powers and deep insights into Things As They Really Are give them the right to rise above hoi polloi.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist July 16, 2014 11:56 AM  

Just wait until Issue #2, when it's revealed that the new Thor is actually a pre-op transsexual.

Mjolnir ain't the only hammer that "she" is swinging!

Expect lots of teachable moments! Lots and lots and lots of them.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey July 16, 2014 11:58 AM  

WHOR.

Anonymous DavidK July 16, 2014 12:04 PM  

I worked in the comic book industry as a writer, artist, and editor back in the 1990s. I can assure you that comic books as such have not been profitable since the 1960s.

Lewis, I have to defer to your knowledge in this area, but I do have one question. I recall the major comic craze in the 1990s, when guys were buying multiple issues of every comic and the comic book publishers were selling all sorts of variant covers to feed the market. When that crashed, Marvel either declared bankruptcy or almost declared bankruptcy. Are you saying even at the height of that bubble, they weren't making money on those comics?

Today, with everything owned by the big conglomerates, I see that the comics don't make money, but the movies do. The movies pick up the ideas and storylines from the comics, so at this point, the comics are just idea generators for future movies. Lots of crap, but the movies only need to cherry pick the good stuff.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 12:05 PM  

Women will never read comic books.

Women in general simply do not focus on the visual like men do.

Storytelling by sequential art is generally distracting and annoying and to the female sex. Classic example, my wife loves Neil Gaiman’s work. Her first copy of Good Omens is little more than a collection of pages in a ziplock bag but she has never been able to get into Sandman or Hellblazer or Black Orchid. She has tried repeatedly and she is done trying.

Trying to make inroads into a market that will never exist is a waste of time, money and resources. Not that Libprogs won’t keep trying.

What does it matter to Marvel comics anyway? They are now owned by Disney, the annual loss (and it’s always a loss) they inflict on the House of Mouse is little more than a rounding error to them. They can afford to be PC idiots.

Anonymous Aptronym July 16, 2014 12:05 PM  

"Except that Loki the Norse God was known to run around as a mortal woman in mythology... so that is actually consistent."

I need to read some of the original myths. From what I've heard, it's a good thing they haven't done Sleipnir in the comics.

Anonymous paul031164 July 16, 2014 12:12 PM  

IIRC, Thor is one of the only characters based on a god. An actual historically mythological figure of spiritual worship. Has Marvel given any consideration to the fact that there are still people who revere the figures of the Norse pantheon? What about the "cultural appropriation" implications?

See what happens? The Odin worshipers need to take their cue from the Mohammedans. The minute you stop splitting skulls with axes, they lose respect for you, and then it's all nothing but work, work, work...

I can now only wait with baited breath for their depictions of the adventures of the new, culturally improved (approved?) versions of "Super She-Mohammed", "Buddhette" and "Lady Kachinka", now with moar bewbs!

Anonymous damaged justice July 16, 2014 12:13 PM  

DavidK, the 90's was also a golden age of sorts for fans of true diversity. Self-publishing had taken off thanks in part to Dave Sim's relentless promotion of the concept (he hadn't yet alienated the majority of his readership by "coming out" as a non-rabbit; see "the infamous issue #186"). Looking back, I'd describe it as akin to Neal Stephenson's observation in IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE COMMAND LINE, where he states:

"Some of Disney's older properties, such as Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, and Alice in Wonderland, came out of books. But the authors' names are rarely if ever mentioned, and you can't buy the original books at the Disney store. If you could, they would all seem old and queer, like very bad knockoffs of the purer, more authentic Disney versions. Compared to more recent productions like Beauty and the Beast and Mulan, the Disney movies based on these books (particularly Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan) seem deeply bizarre, and not wholly appropriate for children. That stands to reason, because Lewis Carroll and J.M. Barrie were very strange men, and such is the nature of the written word that their personal strangeness shines straight through all the layers of Disneyfication like x-rays through a wall."

The boom of the Internet and gradual decline of all print media is hardly the biggest contributer to independent comics' subsequent decline, but I'll leave that analysis to sharper minds than my own.

Anonymous Campo de Saints July 16, 2014 12:14 PM  

You must have missed the new Hercules movie starring a guy who's 50% Polynesian.

Let them have it all, what difference could it make at this point?

Anonymous Don July 16, 2014 12:14 PM  

Where the hell is Loki? This has his name written all over it.

First, let me say unequivocally I am a Christian. However, I am thinking that for once just once, it would very humorous and instructive if the Norse pagan gods were real. Since accusing a man of being feminine is one of the worst insults to the old Norse, I imagine that Stan Lee and everyone else involved in making Thor essentially a sissy-boy would be getting struck by lightning. And you know what? I'd be okay with that.

Anonymous kh123 July 16, 2014 12:14 PM  

Depending on the division, Marvel tends to have a very strict hierarchy in terms of those who dictate the story (the executards tend to have a heavy hand in the writing) vs. artists. The one dictates, and never deems to soil themselves with having to deal with the other. Which, in the long run, benefits the artists, since anyone who worked under Eichmann can reasonably say that they never actually met the man, they simply followed orders and made the trains run on time.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey July 16, 2014 12:18 PM  

if the Norse pagan gods were real

"If"? lol

Anonymous Don July 16, 2014 12:20 PM  

Hell if Richardo Montalban can play a Sikh, The Rock can play a Greek. I'd rather see the Rock as Hercules than a female Thor any day.

Anonymous Don July 16, 2014 12:23 PM  

if the Norse pagan gods were real

"If"? lol


Good lord, don't tell me you take time off your 'Most Interesting Man in the World' thing to hold blóts and pour perfectly good beer on the ground?

Anonymous Harsh July 16, 2014 12:26 PM  

Well, Thor was always kind of gay to begin with so...

Blogger Feather Blade July 16, 2014 12:37 PM  

Women will never read comic books.

Depends on the comic books. Japanese comics, I believe, are quite popular among women. (Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that women do read comics, and among women who read comics, Japanese ones are more popular than American ones.) Of course, those that are more popular tend to be more romantically focused, so...

Anonymous Boise Youngster July 16, 2014 12:40 PM  

"if the Norse pagan gods were real..."If"? lol"

They are the creatures known as banksters.


"They can afford to be PC idiots."

In the end, Marvel is simply employing their creative liberty. They truly don't care if their detractors THINK their work is "self-parody".



Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 12:40 PM  

I suspect that this has more to do with the peculiarities of Pink Shirt/Omega fantasies than it does feminism.

For some odd reason, there is a large contingent of omegas out there who are really, really turned on by the idea of muscle-bound women who could mop the floor with them.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 12:41 PM  

They are the creatures known as banksters.

Especially the one known as "Loki"

Anonymous hygate July 16, 2014 12:42 PM  

"Compared to more recent productions like Beauty and the Beast and Mulan, the Disney movies based on these books (particularly Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan) seem deeply bizarre, and not wholly appropriate for children. "

Perhaps because our societies mores have changed. What was considered appropriate for children in previous generations is no longer considered so. For instance, in Dumbo the titular character discovers his ability to fly after getting pass-out drunk. And this does not occur off screen. Its unlikely that such a scene would make its way into a childrens's movie today. I think we can be pretty sure because of the uproar over "underage drinking" that arose over a scene where it is suggested that Hermione is slight tipsy after drinking some butter beer.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 16, 2014 12:43 PM  

I imagine that Stan Lee and everyone else involved in making Thor essentially a sissy-boy would be getting struck by lightning.

Maybe the ilk can rent a warehouse somewhere near the Marvel HQ building and construct a giant Tesla coil...

Anonymous pseudotsuga July 16, 2014 12:43 PM  

It's more "gang-sign" culture--you gotta make the signs to show that you're running in the right 'hood.

Blogger James Dixon July 16, 2014 12:46 PM  

> t was Loki. Why would he enchant the hammer as Odin did even were he able to?

He couldn't. That doesn't mean Storm couldn't wield the true hammer if she tried. Within the context of the comic, she was almost certainly worthy.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 12:46 PM  

@ Feather Blade

I admit I am painting in broad strokes.

On the other hand. Manga is it's own very, very strange thing. And even there...

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 12:47 PM  

DavidK July 16, 2014 12:04 PM
Are you saying even at the height of that bubble, they weren't making money on those comics?



agreed. Todd McFarlane notoriously made himself a millionaire off of his comic work before he shifted into licensing and general entertainment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_McFarlane
"Upon release, Spawn No. 1 sold 1.7 million copies" @ $1.95 cover price in 1992. even if McFarlane only got a 25 cent cut on each sale, that single issue alone made him $400k +.

Sim also did/is doing quite well with Cerebus.

otoh, they tend to be the exceptions and monthly sales volume has collapsed relative to that period. compared to the sales volume of the 50s and 60s ( contrary to whatever rienzi may think, when comics were priced at a level that children could actually afford them sales ran to well north of a 1/2 million issues on a monthly basis.

http://zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/comic_sales.html


Lewis is correct about the general trend but there certainly were people making good money off of these things as recently as the 90s.

Anonymous Amok Time July 16, 2014 12:49 PM  

"...only what they rebuild is nothing but a cheap and ugly mockery of what stood there before."

As a long time comic book collector, these lapses in creative sense, has prompted me to never buy a new comic again. I will stick to the Gold and Silver eras. I will have none of this "Pink" crap. Yes, kill off Archie Andrews, make Thor a girl and while you are at it,I am sure Bruce Wayne is a cross-dresser!

Blogger Karl July 16, 2014 12:52 PM  

from the pink sf/f comic universe

"Mark Farinas revisits the world of the original series in his fan fiction webcomic, whose official title seems to be … Star Trek. He’s no stranger to Trek, having created the cheeky animated “Klingon Propaganda” video that resembles something produced by North Korea. There’s a red, white and black color palette and a children’s choir and everything. He’s also involved with Starship Exeter, a fan film with TV-accurate sets and costumes."

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2014/06/the-original-star-trek-is-back-in-webcomic-form/#more-187587

http://trekcomic.com/comic/2013-04-01/ and go forward a few panels . . gay captain and first officer are screwing and debating the morality of turkey shooting Romulans that don't have warp drive.

Anonymous Brother Thomas July 16, 2014 12:53 PM  

Anyone know if Marvel created Captain American per request of the predecessor of the CIA, the OSS (Office of Strategic Services)?

Blogger jimmy-jimbo July 16, 2014 12:54 PM  

The Marvel's Agents of SHIELD had a "Lady Sif of Asgard" in episode 15. I wonder why they can't just have a secondary character instead of remaking Thor as a woman. Thor is distinctly male. Of all characters, Thor is not one to switch into female. Loki is more feminine and is almost like a male version of Maleficent.

Let's stop remaking classic Marvel characters into something they are not.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 1:02 PM  

Wonder Woman has suffered under the PC pen nearly as much as Thor.

Staring life as the BDSM fantasy of polygamist and lie detector inventor William Moulton Marston. She has gone from a WWII pinup girl up to the Justice League's official secretary. A depowered but empowered kung fu princess in the 1970s to today's Xena clone.

Wonder Woman has her own film in the works. It will be a disaster.

And for one reason, as ridiculous as that show was, Lynda Carter still owns the part.

Lynda Carter was well cast as Wonder Woman for one reason. She had no sex appeal. No intrinsic allurement. Don't get me wrong, she had a killer a body but on the screen she seemed more asexual than Sheldon Cooper. The sparks never flew, with anyone. She just didn't come across as interested.

That totally worked for Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman’s sexuality has always been a problem. Until recently, you could still dance around the fact that for three thousand years Diana lived on an island populated solely by women. Not anymore.

However DC/Warner stoutly maintains that A. She did not 'experiment' and B. she's straight and 'interested.' Which presents the problem of feminine hypergamy. What man can Wonder Woman look up to?

Steve Trevor? Face it, he was the male Lois Lane. Who could expect her to be attracted to an idiot, she has to keep rescuing.

Recently DC Comics gave up altogether and just had her start dating Superman.

Superman's...uh...romantic difficulties were covered by Larry Niven's classic; Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex. Enough said.

If this was the grand culmination of a fiery passion that had been building for decades that would be one thing. But it's not. It looks like a 'friends with benefits' relationship that hooked up because there was no one else available.

Neither Wonderful or Super. It's just sad.

Anonymous Racialist Heretic July 16, 2014 1:06 PM  

LOL @ grown men seriously discussing comic book characters.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 1:16 PM  

yarp. just about as silly as grown men seriously discussing science fiction and fantasy.

Anonymous Average Comic Book Reader July 16, 2014 1:21 PM  

Soccer is gay.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 16, 2014 1:22 PM  

"Anyone know if Marvel created Captain American per request of the predecessor of the CIA, the OSS (Office of Strategic Services)?"

Cap was supposedly created by a member of the Tribe in 1940 and was first published in March, 1941.

The OSS dates to June 1942, with Donovan taking a position as "Coordinator of Information" in July 1941.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 1:22 PM  

@ Racialist Heretic

As an all encompassing witty riposte LOL is exclusively reserved for thirteen year old girls. Just so you know.

Anonymous B Lewis July 16, 2014 1:23 PM  

DavidK: I worked at Malibu/Marvel during the height of the Collectors' Bubble, 1993-1994. Although sales for certain single issues (e.g. reboots, stunt covers, titles by then-hip artists, etc.) we're high, overall comic book sales were at low levels compared even to the previous bubble (the Direct Market Boom, c. 1986) and miniscule in comparison to Silver Age levels. The reason: no kids. White people more or less quit having children in the early 1970s, leaving a vast absence of literate children by the 1980s. This is the infamous Baby Bust. Add to that the invention of the electronic game console in its modern sense (e.g. the Atari 128) and the PC and suddey there were other things little white kids could do to have fun besides -- yuck! -- reading some stupid comic book.

Wit the advent of the Internet Era c. 1993 there was no one left in the comic book market but adults -- either collectors or niche audiences (e.g. Robotech fandom). I and my partners started our own indy production studio in 1994 to provide services to IP owners seeking to market comics to their niches. We did very well, but the writing was on the wall: the Internet, which had now reached the Netscape Age, now provided a medium with browser software sophisticated enough (and bandwidth cheap enough) to satisfy even the niche market reader. I got out of comics in 1996 because there was no longer any money in it. I moved on to anime vocal performance and advertising art; my partners either went into TV animation or got out of the biz entirely.

I love comics. I always have and I always will. But American comics are dead, and they are never coming back. Why ? Because the America that created them is dead, and it is never coming back.

If it makes you feel any better, manga sales are slumping year by year as well. Oh, manga itself is still as popular as ever; it's just that everybody reads it via keitai now instead of on paper.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 1:25 PM  

Lynda Carter was well cast as Wonder Woman for one reason. She had no sex appeal.

Did you even watch that show? Sex appeal is ALL she had.

She ran like a girl. Her kung fu moves were painful to watch. If she wasn't flirting and showing off her body there would be no point watching that stupid show at all.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 1:43 PM  

@ newrebeluniv

Did you even watch that show? Sex appeal is ALL she had.

Are you sure? Think about it. Really think about it.

Name one episode where the sparks flew between her and...well anybody really? I can't think of single episode where she had a romantic attachment where sex might be on the line.

Well...There was that one fight scene between her and that Gorilla-Monster but really...

Blogger John Wright July 16, 2014 1:44 PM  

@ Cataline Sergius

From one 'shipper' to another: I say Wonder Woman and Batman FTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w6khbl-uXw

And, yes, I am a total fanboy of comics. By which I mean, I read them thirty years ago, and I like Bruce Timm's work in bringing them to the small screen, Joss Whedan's work bringing them to the big screen.

I will still buy reprints of Jack Kirby comics from the 60's, or the Marvel Premier run on Doctor Strange, but for decades the comic world has been dead to me.

Anonymous Athor Pel July 16, 2014 1:47 PM  

" The RemnantJuly 16, 2014 11:21 AM
A buddy of mine is a Thor fanatic who dresses up in full costume for all those conventions. Even though he's a lefty feminist, he's now bellowing his outrage on Facebook."



I don't know why he's so bent out of shape. Women are cosplaying feminized versions of male characters all the time.

Heck, from what I've seen, having another version of the same character is something cosplayers love. It gives them a chance to build another costume.

I don't guess your buddy is hip on adding cross-dressing to his cosplay experience.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 1:56 PM  

"Since accusing a man of being feminine is one of the worst insults to the old Norse"

I'm sure it's so, but if so why is one of Thor's most famous stories the one where he dresses up like a woman to fool the giants with his golden hair and get his hammer back?

I guess the axioms "Cunning and trickery can beat strength and power" plus "Drag is always funny" beat 'one of the worst insults.'

Also, one of the awesome powers of Odin was that he could perform the healing magic of the bonecharm which previously only women could do because healing magic was women's magic. He learned it on the tree.

Being able to do both men's and women's magic is okay I guess.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben July 16, 2014 2:00 PM  

Another great series bites the dust.

When do you think the Hollywood insanity of remaking everything is going to end, especially the non-stop releases and re-releases of super hero movies?

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 2:01 PM  

Athor Pel July 16, 2014 1:47 PM
I don't know why he's so bent out of shape. Women are cosplaying feminized versions of male characters all the time.



yeah, but that's not 'official canon'.

some of the comic dweebs get rather unnaturally obsessed with the 'official history' of the character ... which probably amounts to ego conflation on the reader's part. whatever it is, it's clearly not healthy.



B Lewis July 16, 2014 1:23 PM
Although sales for certain single issues (e.g. reboots, stunt covers, titles by then-hip artists, etc.) we're high, overall comic book sales were at low levels compared even to the previous bubble (the Direct Market Boom, c. 1986) and miniscule in comparison to Silver Age levels.


this is an entirely different argument than you made in your first post.

" B Lewis July 16, 2014 11:53 AM
I can assure you that comic books as such have not been profitable since the 1960s
"

movies don't book a fraction of the attendance numbers that they did from the 30s to the 50s. they are, however, still very profitable.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 2:02 PM  

@ B Lewis

This raises the interesting question of; is there a new indy boom possibly on the horizon with the arrival of the iPad.

Keitai! It's not just for the Rising Sun anymore

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey July 16, 2014 2:04 PM  

Don, sounds like someone's jealous...

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 2:07 PM  

@ John Wright

I agree there was something workable there but that's is different.

I was talking about Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman.

Lynda Carter never once smoldered on screen. She had Smolder Deficit Disorder.

And SDD is a sad thing and tragic thing to see in a woman with a body that magnificent.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown July 16, 2014 2:10 PM  

@bob k. mando
"Beta_Ray_Bill"

If some lurker doesn't pick up this handle, I'm going to be very disappointed.

"he just gave the new character a new hammer."

I think you got that backwards, hoss.


@Stickwick
"Ripley wasn't stereotypically male, at least not in the first two Alien movies. She was emotional, she was completely ineffectual against Ash when he was beating her up, and she was terrified as she prepared to abandon ship -- this is all stuff that would never be portrayed in a female action/sci-fi character these days, and that's what made her so compelling. Nobody watches Aliens for Vasquez, who is stereotypically male; they watch it for Ripley, who is the kind of woman I think a lot of men prefer -- realistically tough and courageous within the boundaries of being female."

That's exactly how I remembered Ripley. Also, in Aliens (1986) she acted in a very maternal, protective and nurturing manner towards the little girl they found in the colony. Current Sci-Fi cinema would suck so much less if they'd stuck to this paradigm.

@ Cataline Sergius

Name one episode where the sparks flew between her and...well anybody really? I can't think of single episode where she had a romantic attachment where sex might be on the line.

Why do you assume that sparks have to fly with another character for Lynda Carter to be considered sexually appealing? She was ridiculously good looking, and blessed with feminine grace. For normal heterosexual males, that's all it takes.

Anonymous GreyS July 16, 2014 2:16 PM  

Say it out loud, gents: "My favorite comic book is getting less manly."

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 2:18 PM  

I recently watched the third Riddick movie. Mostly good, silly fun, going back to the feel of Pitch Black. But I had to roll my eyes several times because they cast Starbuck (and remember when that sex change was the buzz?) as a lesbian badass who swings her huge tits all over the screen while she beats guys up. It's just so predictable it's tiring. The first movie had a woman in a major role who was tough at times; but in a female way, not like an actress in a male role.

Anonymous Arcturus Rann July 16, 2014 2:19 PM  

I recall the major comic craze in the 1990s, when guys were buying multiple issues of every comic and the comic book publishers were selling all sorts of variant covers to feed the market. When that crashed, Marvel either declared bankruptcy or almost declared bankruptcy. Are you saying even at the height of that bubble, they weren't making money on those comics?


I can shed some light on this. I had just started working in the industry at the height of the "speculator market." When the rise of "dark and gritty" comic books started in the mid-to-late 80's most of these were only sold to Comic Book shops.

You couldn't go into Walgreen's and buy Watchmen or The Killing Joke or The Dark Knight Returns. The mainstream media latched on to these new, gritty stories as if they were a novelty, and when people went out to buy them they were in limited supply so the price went up to meet demand.


It was then that people realized that comic books were mainstreaming and that they could make money off of them, so comic books shops boomed. Marvel and DC liked the sales, so you started seeing them go dark and gritty with everything. Marvel pimped Wolverine and Punisher, Kraven the Hunter (sorta) killed Spider-Man, and DC killed off Robin, etc.

Fast forward to the mid-90's and the cult of personality got going. Artists like Todd Mcfarlane and Jim Lee became brands of their own. So when those guys left to start a new publishing house everyone was slobbering about it and buying up copies of Spawn by the thousands.


By the time I got into the business after high school the market had turned into everyone speculating on what new character or book was gonna be hot. So one speculator would buy hundreds of copies, and then the industry got the idea of variant copies, and then speculators bought hundreds of each variant. So when the gimmicks got stale and everyone realized that the "value" of these comic books was nonexistent because there were thousands of them out there and very few of them were good the whole thing went tits up and publishers who were once hot (Valiant, Malibu, etc.) were done for. That is how I got and lost my very first comic book job.


Even Marvel eventually declared bankruptcy. DC was only spared because of WB corporate ownership.


So yeah, publishers made money, but it was only in the short term gross. They were also spending a ton and using promotional dollars to promote series that did huge issue #1 sales and then disappeared.


I can also confirm that the vast majority of comic book creators are neo-liberal progressives who truly believe what they preach. It was ubiquitous in the 90's, but now it's off the rails. This is why Chuck Dixon, one of the best and best selling writers in comic books during the 90's and early 2000's can barely get a sniff in the industry anymore...he's a pro-gun conservative and there is now no place for him in it.

Anonymous corvinus July 16, 2014 2:20 PM  

They already made Heimdall, the "whitest of the gods", black, so this added insult to Norse mythology is par for the course, really.

Anonymous Don July 16, 2014 2:24 PM  

I don't always make offerings to imaginary Norse gods but when I do, I offer Dos Equis and Arapawa goats.

Anonymous Will Shuttermouth July 16, 2014 2:32 PM  

Thor is actually a democratic socialist. Unlike Hilter, who was the same ideology as evil Sarah Palin. Discuss.

Anonymous Ed July 16, 2014 2:36 PM  

I don't always make offerings to an imaginary Jewish god but when I do, I offer my firstborn son and 10% of my income.

Anonymous Trimegistus July 16, 2014 2:38 PM  

I think everyone needs to calm the hell down about this. It's a comic-book stunt, nothing more. Remember the "Death of Superman" comic? Remember how Superman died for good and there were never any more Superman comics or movies again, ever?

Now remember that Thor-with-a-dick has been the main character in two big hit movies, and that Marvel comics exists only as an IP factory for Disney. Think Disney's going to turn a character who generates cash as reliably as a magically-regenerating goat into a chick permanently?

No. I give it a year, tops. Then Thor-with-a-dick is back, just in time for whatever the next movie he's going to be in. Of course Thor-without-a-dick will hang around in the Marvel universe from now on, providing plenty of opportunities for cheesecake.

Anonymous Daniel July 16, 2014 2:41 PM  

Liberalism in comics. It was ubiquitous in the 90's, but now it's off the rails.

This. They are almost universally unreadable now. It is an echo chamber of pagan psychosis: Arkham Asylum is the new batmobile. Your timing of the descent from a lot of trash to complete propaganda occultism is dead on. Action oriented pro-UN American liberalism like 80s GI Joe would be considered right-wing evil in today's market.

Anonymous NateM July 16, 2014 2:44 PM  

She ran like a girl. Her kung fu moves were painful to watch. If she wasn't flirting and showing off her body there would be no point watching that stupid show at all."

So she was like a sexy Cannon?

Really the reason comics died is that they narrowed the focus long before the pc-ing. Through the bronze age all the comics became bmore Dark and Gritty so no young people could/Would read them. They just catered to the fanboys as they got older and never picked up a new audience of kids. Add to that a lot of people getting burned in the Death of Superman gimmick in the 90's (people bought them and other new titles thinking they were collectors items, when only the first printing was even worth the cover price)/and people started turning away. Add the pinkification and they went into a flat spin

Anonymous Jeigh Di July 16, 2014 2:46 PM  

MPC July 16, 2014 9:43 AM
This still doesn't top the fact that the latest Archie comic features the titular character being shot and killed while trying to defend the life of his BEST GAY FRIEND who was campaigning for more gun control. To which Millenials have replied, "Who the fuck is Archie?"

They haven't revealed who the shooter is yet. I hope they do a Vince Russo style swerve where it turns out that it was Jughead, who was secretly gay and wanted Archie for himself.

If it's Jughead, it's more likely that he's become a fundamentalist Christian and joined the Westboro Baptist.

Incidently, though I haven't seen it I understand that there is a Marvel / DC crossover which features Superman wielding Mjolnir and Captain America's shield.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 16, 2014 2:46 PM  

Superhero Comics used to mostly be for 14 year old boys. I ought to know,I was reading X-Men at that age. These days they are just a lib-tard wank fest and propaganda outlet and nostalgia for older geeks. A few younger people do read them but the medium is very far from the mainstream when I got my issues of X-Men at Safeway.

They've tried to reach out to the vibrant crowd with stuff like Ultimate Spider Man who is gay,Black and Puerto-Rican no less but its had no real impact on the Zeitgeist to speak of. The vibrants couldn't care less, the ones that read well really don't like being pandered to and despite what the Leftard think don't like gays either.

Warren Ellis tried it with his Extermis series for Iron Man as well ,with evil Whitey resisting the new reality or masters or whatever I saw the motion comic on Netflix. The writing was charitably pus.

Thorina is just stupid, Marvel still thinks Buffy and Xena are in and they aren't.

That said I'll just stick with the movies when I want Thor and while I found a lot of casting off putting, it was livable and the movies are mostly fun,

Blogger Feather Blade July 16, 2014 2:48 PM  

@ Cataline Sergius
Manga is it's own very, very strange thing. Bolded for truth.

I was thinking about the sheThor thing this morning, and it occurred to me that it could work if:
...she were a quiet, modest, polite and feminine bog-standard human, and
...Mjolnir and the identity of Thor as a title were imposed upon her by external forces, and
...she rejects the idea outright, sticking to her normal human life (bonus points if Mjolnir randomly appears at her home and work, following her around like a lost puppy) until she has no choice but to become Thor, and
...makes it her mission to return Mjolnir to the rightful Thor as soon as humanly possible between assisting the Avengers, so that she can return to bog-standard-human life.

I doubt that Marvel artists and writers are constitutionally capable of doing this, but it would be an interesting change from your average SuperGrrrl.

Blogger Bogey July 16, 2014 2:48 PM  

My feelings best summed up in this drawing by Alex Ross.

Anonymous Bobby Trosclair July 16, 2014 2:49 PM  

"Except that Loki the Norse God was known to run around as a mortal woman in mythology... so that is actually consistent."

I need to read some of the original myths. From what I've heard, it's a good thing they haven't done Sleipnir in the comics."

If Marvel wanted to be true to history, they would have Odin running a death cult that hung people from gibbets as sacrifices to him. And Thor would have his ass handed to him at Geismar by St. Boniface after he prevented Thor's worshippers from sacrificing a young boy to him at the Thunder Oak, and THEN cut off his own manhood in shame, like a member (no pun intended) of the Wu Tang Clan.

Anonymous Facts July 16, 2014 2:51 PM  

"Superhero Comics used to mostly be for 14 year old boys."

Perhaps they remain the target market?

‘X-Men’ Director Bryan Singer Accused of Sexually Assaulting Underage Boy
http://www.thewrap.com/bryan-singer-accused-sexually-abusing-underage-boy/

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2014 2:53 PM  

@Gunnar von Cowtown

She was ridiculously good looking, and blessed with feminine grace. For normal heterosexual males, that's all it takes.

I respectfully disagree but this is simply a matter of personal preference. I can admire a fine form but if a woman is not interested, I am not interested.

Do not take this as criticism. It is not meant as such.

Blogger Bogey July 16, 2014 2:56 PM  

That was 50 years ago. Yes things have changed. Comic books lost some(but not all) of the "loser" quality and geek isn't always "bad". Comic book popularity peaked probably in the 1990s. Today it is having a bit of a resurgence because of the high quality movies.

The Ultimates, Ultimates II, Identity Crisis, and Anything by Robert Kirkman. The latest Avengers movies have more in common with the Ultimates than anything Stan Lee ever wrote.

Anonymous Athor Pel July 16, 2014 2:57 PM  

"Cataline SergiusJuly 16, 2014 2:02 PM
@ B Lewis

This raises the interesting question of; is there a new indy boom possibly on the horizon with the arrival of the iPad. "



There are some webcomics that I follow and those guys are making money. And they are doing it by self publishing on the web. From what I've seen their revenue comes from ads on their website and merchandizing their IP in various forms, typical t-shirt art, etc.. They also compile a few months of web output into printed form a few times a year.

In this case I'm talking about strip form comics (think newspaper comic strips) and not long form comic books filled with super heroes but the principals I'm talking about here apply across forms.

Funnily enough one of these webcomics has had a similar experience to Vox in regards to professional organizations. It wasn't so much a left vs. right political conflict but more about the old media vs. new media. The old guard said what he and others were doing couldn't be done, wouldn't make money and were not qualified to be members in the cartoonists professional society, while Scott and other artists were doing it anyway, and making a decent living, as professional cartoonists.

Blog post wherein Scott Kurtz Explains why he is done with trying to become a member of NCS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Kurtz

He even helped write a book on how to make a living as a webcomic creator.

The similarities of conflict between old and new media in both instances is too obvious for me not to point it out.

Anonymous Don July 16, 2014 2:58 PM  

Still not as weirdly PC as the O'Neil/Adams Green Lantern Green Arrow comics of the seventies. Trimegistus is right no way are they making a female 'Thor' movie. The mouse is not giving up a cash cow like that.

Anonymous Androsynth July 16, 2014 2:58 PM  

Also, in Aliens (1986) she acted in a very maternal, protective and nurturing manner towards the little girl they found in the colony. Current Sci-Fi cinema would suck so much less if they'd stuck to this paradigm.

In fact, Ripley's maternal instincts provided the thematic spine of the entire film (starting with the revelation at the beginning that her biological daughter had died of old age while Ripley was in hypersleep), and was contrasted against the Alien Queen's own maternal instincts to deliver the core conflict and climactic fight. You couldn't make Ripley a man without changing the entire film dramatically.

Anonymous kh123 July 16, 2014 2:58 PM  

I smell a third rate State Uni librarian trying to derail in the wings...

Actually, it's more than likely a different Ed. Nevermind.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown July 16, 2014 3:11 PM  

@Cataline Sergius

OK. Fair enough.

I have been thinking about your initial question, though. While it wasn't "sparks fly" in the traditional manner, I seem to recall a strong correlation between exposure to Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman and getting in big trouble with my parents when they came home and found the babysitter tied to a chair.

Smoldering enough for me!

Anonymous Michael Maier July 16, 2014 3:12 PM  

Androsynth July 16, 2014 2:58 PM Also, in Aliens (1986) she acted in a very maternal, protective and nurturing manner towards the little girl they found in the colony. Current Sci-Fi cinema would suck so much less if they'd stuck to this paradigm.

In fact, Ripley's maternal instincts provided the thematic spine of the entire film (starting with the revelation at the beginning that her biological daughter had died of old age while Ripley was in hypersleep),


Idiotic that they left that out of the "normal" cut of the film. It took almost no time onscreen and added a lot of depth to Ripley and why Newt mattered so much.

Anonymous Athor Pel July 16, 2014 3:21 PM  

" Cataline SergiusJuly 16, 2014 2:07 PM
...
Lynda Carter never once smoldered on screen. She had Smolder Deficit Disorder.

And SDD is a sad thing and tragic thing to see in a woman with a body that magnificent. "




Maybe I can offer some light on this. I certainly understand the point of view that all a woman needs to get the attention of most men is that she be physically beautiful. Yep, I watched plenty of Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman as a kid. I know attention.

I imagine SDD as being something like putting Joe Friday's personality, you know, from Dragnet, in a woman's body. Yeah, just the facts maam, just the facts.

I can also remember that Lynda Carter didn't have a personality that would show on a screen. She did her job, she recited her lines and looked good in the costume but beyond that..., a sparkling personality that could be captured on camera there was not.

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown July 16, 2014 3:56 PM  

@Androsynth & Michael Maier

Regarding Aliens (1986). Yeah, absolutely. You guys nailed it.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 3:58 PM  

Where the hell is Loki? This has his name written all over it.

I object strenuously to the idea that I would have thus avenged myself of all the slanderous fanfiction Marvel has put about, making me out to be some sort of effeminate fool who is ever foiled by brutish imbeciles and lowly mortals.

Though indeed, whoever concocted this scheme is shrewd, intelligent, and likely incredibly handsome and virile.

Eh-heh-heh-heh...What? Laughing? No, I was just clearing my throat.

Anonymous Sigyn July 16, 2014 4:02 PM  

Though indeed, whoever concocted this scheme is shrewd, intelligent, and likely incredibly handsome and virile.

You know, it's times like this that make me feel a little guilty about stroking his ego...

Anonymous Don July 16, 2014 4:03 PM  

It'll give me a chance to tell my kids the story of how Thor and Loki got his hammer back by disguising himself as Freya. Like John Wright said, 'Why couldn't they have used 'Valkerie' or 'Sif' as a female Thor until he could take over again. This has stunt all over it.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 4:06 PM  

You know, it's times like this that make me feel a little guilty about stroking his ego...

And yet you are so talented at stroking my "ego".

Anonymous Porphyry July 16, 2014 4:09 PM  

"I say Wonder Woman and Batman FTW." not to pick on Mr. Wright, but talk about characters being gay in movies. I mean all of Bruce Wayne's problems with women were definately cause of his parents. And that fact that he goes flying into the sunset with a gold digging dominatrix. Im sure it was just coincidence.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 4:10 PM  

It'll give me a chance to tell my kids the story of how Thor and Loki got his hammer back by disguising himself as Freya.

Oh, yes, that was one of my finer schemes. Thrym had been an annoyance for some time. I managed to dispose of him and make my brother dress as a woman in one go, and I got to be a hero in the process. I still have the photographs somewhere about, in case I ever need "leverage".

Good memories.

Anonymous Sigyn July 16, 2014 4:11 PM  

And yet you are so talented at stroking my "ego".

*sigh* Does everything have to be a dirty joke with you?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 4:15 PM  

*sigh* Does everything have to be a dirty joke with you?

Only so long as you put me in mind of country matters.

Blogger lordabacus July 16, 2014 4:19 PM  

Nice take on why the Thor-as-woman news is not really news.

http://www.norsemyth.org/2014/07/thor-is-dead.html

Anonymous Sigyn July 16, 2014 4:26 PM  

Only so long as you put me in mind of country matters.

It's a mixed blessing...

Anonymous DrTorch July 16, 2014 4:26 PM  


If it's Jughead, it's more likely that he's become a fundamentalist Christian and joined the Westboro Baptist.


Jughead was always the most clever one of the bunch, pranking everybody including the teachers.

Archie had very fun stories from the 60s-early 80s. But that fanbase dried up (just like it did for Binky etc). I think the baby bust is as good an explanation as any.

Incidently, though I haven't seen it I understand that there is a Marvel / DC crossover which features Superman wielding Mjolnir and Captain America's shield.

Yes, JLA/Avengers team up (#4). Good story, cover art (George Perez) was only fair at best IMO, although others like it.

http://www.comicvine.com/jlaavengers-4-the-brave-and-the-bold/4000-105427/

As for the story, it was good, and Grant Morrison totally blew it by not using Krona in his Final Crisis series. He was the perfect fit.

Anonymous Bobby Trosclair July 16, 2014 4:28 PM  

The PC crowd also ran Orson Scott Card out of his guest scripting gig at DC because of his stance against homosexual "marriage."

I suppose the best way to Black Knight this situation would be to start a movement of faux-pagans who object to Marvel's treatment of their deity, in the same way Moslems would object to depicting Mohammed as getting a sex-change. Start a Facebook Petition, the left loves those, and demand a boycott of all Marvel products and all products produced by Marvel's corporate ownership until they end their "insensitive" and hurtful" blasphemy against a pagan idol. While defaming Christians or Jews would likely be seen as "edgy" or "transgressive," and thus good, offending pagans is terra incognita for the PC left and they probably would have no idea how to handle it.

Anonymous Bobby Trosclair July 16, 2014 4:35 PM  

My understanding from reading between the lines on the news reports is that Archie's martyrdom for the cause of gay rights and against gun rights happens in the "Life with Archie" series, which depicts Archie as an adult who married (Veronica? Betty? Mr. Weatherby?). It won't affect the continuity of their other series, in which Archie is still a teen, who lives his life not knowing that he is going to die in the near future. So the publishers get a publicity blitz, but still get to use Archie and Jughead and their pals to sell their line of comics to...whom?

I have no idea who reads the Archie comics these days. A miniscule audience of gay comic book fans, perhaps, and OCD collector completists. Maybe parents who remember it as kids and grab one off a newstand to occupy their kids on a trip, having no idea what manner of degenerate perversity is portrayed within.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 4:42 PM  

Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 4:06 PM
And yet you are so talented at stroking my "ego".




ah well, you 'beat' me to it.

at least this way i can still make pretensions of respectability and moral uprightness.



Porphyry July 16, 2014 4:09 PM
And that fact that he goes flying into the sunset with a gold digging dominatrix. Im sure it was just coincidence.



actually, the WW + Bats thing is just a modern retcon to cover up his sordid history.
http://superdickery.com/images/stories/oneshot/smartbombstudios-justice.jpg

and, for anyone who doesn't know, Superman is a Dick.


Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 4:45 PM  

ah well, you 'beat' me to it.

Handily, no less.

Anonymous Sheila July 16, 2014 4:48 PM  

I have never been a comic-book reader, but I do remember skimming the old Archie comics (we're talking 1960s) at the 5 and 10 cent store while waiting around for my mother. I think a friend's brother may have had some, as well. That's the extent of my familiarity with Archie et al. We also have a pile of old Superman and Green Lantern comics that my son got from his uncle, who picked them up at some second-hand store. Mostly classic oldies - anything sexualized, we dumped (my kid was totally uninterested in that, besides being too young for it).

About 6 years ago, my son was really into Star Wars. In addition to watching the movies over and over again, he was collecting some of the figures. When we couldn't find a particular one he wanted at Target, we visited a comic-book store (I hadn't know of the existence of such previously). He was the ONLY CHILD on the premises. Everyone else, looking or buying, was an adult male. Not even 13-17 year olds, but at least 21 (by my judging of their appearance). I would classify the vast majority of them as NERDS.

When my husband read of Archie being killed while saving his gay best friend (he doesn't own a single comic nor has read any in all the years I've known him, so his memories are also from the 60s and 70s), he said "They can't even leave that untouched." I think that's the whole point here - it's not enough for leftists to destroy every institution you value, or rewrite the history, or even jail/kill those who won't submit. They're similarly determined to control not just your thoughts, but your memories. There is nothing of the original America they will leave untouched. Not even the simple childhood toys or memories - even those must be transformed to fit their narrative. It's not mere cultural destruction, it's the annihilation of an entire people and culture and all its collective memories.

Anonymous hygate July 16, 2014 5:12 PM  

" Superman is a Dick."

Just in case someone here hasn't heard this joke.

Two men are sitting drinking at a bar at the top of the Empire State Building, when the first man turns to the other and says "You know, last week I discovered that if you jump from the top of this building, the winds around the building are so intense that by the time you fall to the 10th floor, they carry you around the building and back into a window". The bartender just shakes his head in disapproval while wiping the bar.

The second guy says, "What, are you nuts? There's no way that could happen. "No, its true," the first man says. "Let me prove it to you." He gets up from the bar, jumps over the balcony, and plummets toward the street below. As he nears the 10th floor, the high winds whip him around the building and back into the 10th floor window and he takes the elevator back up to the bar.

He meets the second man, who looks quite astonished. "You know, I saw that with my own eyes, but that must have been a one time fluke." "No, I'll prove it again," says the first man as he jumps again. Just as he is hurtling toward the street, the 10th floor wind gently carries him around the building and into the window. Once upstairs he urges his fellow drinker to try it.

"Well, why not." the second guy says, "It works. I'll try it." He jumps over the balcony, plunges downward passes the 11th, 10th 9th, 8th, floors. . . . . and hits the sidewalk with a SPLAT.

Back upstairs the bartender turns to the other drinker and says, "You know Superman, you're a real jerk when you're drunk".

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 5:20 PM  

Men will read the shit out of it if she rides the stick end of the hammer.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 5:22 PM  

Gay Green Lantern and female Thor. Boycott and never go back, even when they change it.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 5:23 PM  

Archie is getting shot soon and killed (maybe already has) for defending his gay friend. Message: Don't defend your gay friend.

Anonymous Wyrd July 16, 2014 5:38 PM  

"Men will read the shit out of it if she rides the stick end of the hammer."

Don't get too excited. Mjolnir is notorious for having a short handle.

Anonymous Michael of Charlotte July 16, 2014 6:24 PM  

Related to the topic on hand, is there a way that I can read Batman from start to finish on a website somewhere? I was never into comic books as a kid, but I've grown to like the character / storyline a great deal. I'm open to paying for it if I don't have to shell a $100,000 for Batman #1 and such.

Anonymous Daniel July 16, 2014 6:24 PM  

Archie is getting shot soon and killed (maybe already has) for defending his gay friend. Message: Don't defend your gay friend.

The gay married Army friend? That's sort of like the Lambda equivalent of the Gamma who dies on his sword for a girl when she isn't paying attention. Doubt the dude needed ol' Arch to take the bullet for him, but now that he has...well...

fresh corpse.

Necrophilia rights now, Archie Comics! Get with the program!

Anonymous Red Comet July 16, 2014 6:33 PM  

This is just another stunt the comics companies periodically use to make up for year-on-year falling sales. They've done this exact storyline as far back as the early 80s when Thor got replaced for a couple months by a horse alien. Hell, they did it as recently as 2011.

Marvel's also doing this to find a use for Angela, the female character who will be replacing Thor. They paid a lot of money to Neil Gaiman for the character and now need to justify it when corporate review time comes up.

Buying the character from Gaiman is itself an interesting story involving the rights to different character called Marvelman and/or Miracleman.

Long story short: Gaiman and Marvel collaborated to cheat Spawn creator Todd McFarlane out of that character by holding part of the Spawn franchise hostage via lawsuits involving work Gaiman did for McFarlane back in the 90s.

Ever since reading up on this case I've believed Gaiman's public nice guy persona to be completely phony.

Anonymous Daniel July 16, 2014 6:37 PM  

Related to the topic on hand, is there a way that I can read Batman from start to finish on a website somewhere?

You'd think that would be relatively simple, I know, but no. The Golden Era ones are actually fairly lame for the era, although Batman uses a gun back then, so that's kind of fun. You can get those in Batman Chronicles.

However: and this misses some very good issues from the 1970s and pre-resurgence 1980s, but you could do worse than to read the following books in order:

-Batman: Year One - Frank Miller
-The Man who Laughs - Kind of a very late companion to the above.
-The Long Halloween - this one actually puts the Detective in Detective Comics
-Dark Victory
-Batman #408 - this single issue will clear up any later confusion you have about "the second robin"
-The Killing Joke - this one is pretty psycho, but it isn't a bad story, and has some critical stuff for the modern storyline.
-A Death in The Family - same as Killing Joke
-Arkham Asylum
Finally: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS - Picture Clint Eastwood (now) as Batman in 2021 dystopic Gotham. It is super cool: both disturbing and inspiring. Beautiful artwork in a dark atmosphere.

Truth be told, I like the 70s and 80s Batman - he's less nuanced (his torture is fairly conventional: over his deceased secret wife), but there's also less existentialism, which gets dull real fast in the non-great modern Batman stories. There are some Batman issues that are flat out slasher books nowadays, and you never had to deal with that in old DC books.

Blogger Brad Andrews July 16, 2014 6:44 PM  

Some torrents will have Batman comics in cbr format.

You can get runs of early comics and storylines in Trade Paper Back (Hardcover and softcover) or even Kindle format these days.

Some are not cheap, but have a fair number of comics. Amazon has a reasonable discount on the dead tree versions.

Blogger Brad Andrews July 16, 2014 6:48 PM  

This thread reminded me of the use of some humor in the Marvel Superheroes game. Speaking of the Scarlet Witch above: One character says "Scarlet Witch? It is the Scarlet Bit... Oh hi Wanda!" (That is her name.)

Lots of humorous parts, though I suspect that they are going to be driven by the demands to be PC and stick lots of homosexual characters throughout though. It may not impact gameplay much, but it is sad to see things shoved in.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 7:06 PM  

Don't get too excited. Mjolnir is notorious for having a short handle.

Well, is it notoriously wide?

Anonymous Wyrd July 16, 2014 7:29 PM  

Funny but the Eddas never addressed that aspect of the hammer.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2014 7:40 PM  

Can John Scalzi be the new tinkerbell fairy?

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2014 8:07 PM  

Loki Sjalfsainn July 16, 2014 4:45 PM
Handily, no less.



i would expect nothing else from a talented fisherman.

Anonymous Viking July 16, 2014 8:13 PM  

I remember reading Judge Dredd as a kid. It was shocking, I had to really study it, but there it was, right wing media. I had never ever seen that before and it was wild for a young teanager. WILD! But as a whole spider man etc. was also right wing, but not as in your face, a the Judge! It was exciting, different and ever so great. destroying that will ruin the business but that is good enough for them if they can't use it for their propaganda.

Anonymous pseudotsuga July 16, 2014 8:39 PM  

Soon we will be able to change these immortal lines from the Libellus Islandorum:
Vilkat goð greya: grey Þykkjumk Freyja. (translated: "I won't blaspheme the gods: (but) methinks Freyja is a bitch."
Now we can have the following:
Vilkat goð greya: grey Þykkjumk Þor!

Anonymous pseudotsuga July 16, 2014 8:44 PM  

(Well, pardon my dusty memory...that's actually Vilkat goð geyja: grey Þykkjumk Freyja. Typographic errors for the FAIL!

Anonymous Smokey July 16, 2014 9:23 PM  

I remember reading Judge Dredd as a kid.

Judge Dredd comics were awesome before Garth Ennis got his hands on them.

Also, as I recall, Dredd was intended as a parody of right-wingers by the usual suspects, but the writing was so sloppy, it had the opposite effect instead.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist July 16, 2014 9:37 PM  

Who would have guessed that Cherry Poptart would end up being the *least* degenerate of the "Archie" comic?

Anonymous Stickwick July 16, 2014 10:41 PM  

Loki Sjalfssfjsassafras: And yet you are so talented at stroking my "ego".

Sigyn: *sigh* Does everything have to be a dirty joke with you?

It's like that with semi-mortal husbands, too, alas.

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