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Wednesday, August 13, 2014

A lesson in atheist social autism

I saw this conversation come up in my Notifications on Twitter today:
Francis Begbie ‏@BegbieBegbie
I think there's something to @voxday 's theory on atheism and social skills: Look at Myers response in the comments.

Preston S. Brooks ‏@Rebel_Bill
That's beyond a lack of social skills, that's almost into the realm of autism.
I had no idea what they were talking about, so I went over to Pharyngula and saw that PZ, fresh from correctly criticizing Richard Dawkins for failing to understand that you can't complain about people reacting emotionally when you intentionally push their emotional buttons with rhetoric intended to do just that, had somehow decided that the coverage of Robin Williams's suicide was a wonderful opportunity to strike a morally superior prose and preen about his supposed  a) lack of interest in celebrities and b) deep concern for people of African descent. The response referenced above:
Celebrity culture. Fuck it. These people do not have an emotional connection to Robin Williams, the man; it’s fine to like the actor/comedian and enjoy his work, but look at this thread, and my twitter feed: people are freaking out that someone pointed out that the obsession with celebrity is getting in the way of caring about things that matter. I’m mainly feeling that I should have been more rude, because asking me to have been nicer about the dead famous guy is completely missing the point.
But it's not PZ's social autism that amuses me. I've known his AQ score indicates basic lack of empathy since 2008; my observations concerning the connection between atheism and social autism in TIA even prompted at least two scientific studies. What amuses me is PZ's transparent hypocrisy.
I'm sorry to report that comedian Robin Williams has committed suicide, an event of great import and grief to his family. But his sacrifice has been a great boon to the the news cycle and the electoral machinery — thank God that we have a tragedy involving a wealthy white man to drag us away from the depressing news about brown people. I mean, really: young 18 year old black man gunned down for walking in the street vs. 63 year old white comedian killing himself?
That is from the first of two posts about Robin Williams at Pharyngula. The number of posts about Michael Brown's death on Pharyngula and the subsequent black unrest in Ferguson, MO in the five days since his death? ZERO. PZ is not only empathetically obtuse, he is observably guilty of the very act he was attempting to portray himself as being above.

Of course, PZ is smart enough to know that the reason that the media doesn't cover the deaths of young black men is because doing so would shatter their attempts to sell the myth of racial equality. If the media did what he feigns to want, he would accuse them of racism, because if every death of a young black man was covered in the same intense detail as Robin Williams's death, there would be more nationwide demand for interning all male African-Americans between the ages of 15 and 30 than there ever was for interning Japanese-Americans.

Labels: ,

151 Comments:

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 9:11 AM  

I read PZ's blog once... and I came away deeply regretful that I had only two palms to bury my face in.

Anonymous DrTorch August 13, 2014 9:17 AM  

My AQ must be high, b/c I understand Myers' points.

I think he's more than a little paranoid about his belief that the media wants to distract people from Brown's death: the US news media loves covering, or even fabricating, stories of raciss....but Myers' disdain for the cult of personality has merit.

Anonymous Salt August 13, 2014 9:19 AM  

Black men killing and being killed has been normalized. Nothing new there, not even the rioting; euphamism for looting.

There was, though, only one Robin Williams.

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2014 9:21 AM  

These people do not have an emotional connection to Robin Williams, the man

And most of the people freaking out over the Michael Brown shooting have no emotional connection to Michael Brown, the man.

I am not particularly broken up about either death. As someone whose life has been touched personally and deeply by depression, addiction, and suicide, I perhaps feel more sympathy for Williams and his family, and more of an emotional pull towards his story than Brown.

But, I'm just a white woman. Not a rich one, but white nonetheless. One out of two gets me lumped into the "rich, white" category of those who don't care about being shot while black.

Blogger buzzardist August 13, 2014 9:31 AM  

So lemme get this straight, PZ. I'm not supposed to be sad about the death of one person because I didn't know him, even if his movies, television, and comedy gave me a lot of entertainment, and instead I'm supposed to be angry about the death of someone whom I completely don't know. Indeed, I'm even supposed to feel ashamed about my sadness for the former?

Right....

And I'm supposed to feel angry about this black guy from Missouri because a white cop happened to be the one who killed him, while I'm supposed to completely ignore the other scores of black men killed by other black men this summer alone.

Yeah, sorry, not seeing the logic here.

Blogger darkdoc August 13, 2014 9:37 AM  

Why should it be either one or the other, and not both, two completely unrelated events? Fargin icehole PZ.

Anonymous Susan August 13, 2014 9:37 AM  

You echo my sentiments exactly Cranberry. I also find it mildly amusing PZ and company can't see the irony of their slam against while people and Robin Williams when they can apply the very same complaint to Brown.

Nate, I have felt the same way after reading some of the rabbity stuff that VD finds to link to. Especially the sf/f pink bunny slippers stuff.

Blogger James Dixon August 13, 2014 9:41 AM  

> Of course, PZ is smart enough to know that the reason that the media doesn't cover the deaths of young black men...

Something that happens dozens of time a day around the country doesn't qualify as news.

> ...but Myers' disdain for the cult of personality has merit.

Recognizing that Williams was a comic genius does not classify as engaging in a "cult of personality".

Anonymous Alexander August 13, 2014 9:49 AM  

Robin Williams is dead but at least the train is OK.

Blogger Iowahine August 13, 2014 9:57 AM  

Is PZ going for page count or is he really that obtuse?

Anonymous Garrett August 13, 2014 10:01 AM  

Blacks have clearly demonstrated that they can get the US Attorney General, FBI and Liberal Hate Machine to charge in like the cavalry on their side on any issue by simply starting a riot and burning things. They are shooting at police helicopters in Missouri and who is the FBI investigating? The local police in Ferguson. LOL

If we had a real government that served all people, the government would certainly charge into Ferguson, but they would be whooping black ass and arresting rioters by the hundreds and allow the local police to do their job. This hasn't happened since the mid 60's when blacks first realized they could burn down cities and still garner massive sympathy from liberal whites who live worlds apart from the mayhem. Paul Kersey at SBPDL nailed it with his term Black Run America.

Jessie Jackson reminded us white folks this week that there is a Ferguson near everyone, and unfortunately as long as the Government and media provide air support for the black underclass, all Americans have to live with this very real terrorist threat coming from Mr. Jackson and the black community.

With Trayvon 2.0 coming just 2 years after the first event, I'm guessing before long America is going to be embroiled in a non-stop No Justice No Peace black terror campaign in all areas with any significant black population. Knock-out game spread quickly after Trayvon 1.0, imagine what the future holds as the anti-white hate hysteria continues to boil over and liberal media tricksters keep turning up the heat, amplifying events like lil Trayvon while ignoring the ongoing epidemic of black on white crimes motivated by hate but never charged with hate.

If blacks cannot be made to live by our rules, we will be forced to live by theirs.

Blogger Iowahine August 13, 2014 10:01 AM  

I didn't slog through that trough, so I guess - like Eliza I'm asking you guys to do the heavy lifting - but did any of PZ's commenters point out he wasn't moved to blog about Brown until he thought he could score some PC points, no matter how trite?

Anonymous Roundtine August 13, 2014 10:07 AM  

For a second I thought he meant all the brown people dying of Ebola. Or the brown people being beheaded in Iraq.

You could make a long list of things people will mourn more than a complete stranger. Discontinued McDonald's menu items and TV shows, etc.

Anonymous FrankNorman August 13, 2014 10:07 AM  

fresh from correctly criticizing Richard Dawkins for failing to understand that you can't complain about people reacting emotionally when you intentionally push their emotional buttons with rhetoric intended to do just that

Is that stupidity on Dawkins' part, or malice?
Deliberately provoking people to anger and then acting as if wronged when they do get angry is a well-known trolling game by Narcissists.

Anonymous Michael August 13, 2014 10:14 AM  

"I mean, really: young 18 year old black man gunned down for walking in the street vs. 63 year old white comedian killing himself?"

Oh? And what of the thousands who are murdered in black-on-black crimes, predominantly in liberal cesspools such as Chicago and the like? Where's all this self-righteous indignation when concerning incidents of blacks killing whites occur?

While on the subject of atheism, over at Atheism Analyzed, Stan mentioned how his personal Facebook account was suddenly shut off. Is this yet another example of rank hypocrisy by the vocal advocates of all things equality and tolerance?

http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.com/2014/08/my-personal-facebook-account-has-been.html

Blogger Iowahine August 13, 2014 10:18 AM  

@FrankNorman: Deliberately provoking people to anger and then acting as if wronged when they do get angry is a well-known trolling game by Narcissists.

. . . and addicts/alcoholics.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 10:24 AM  

Garrett,
If the govt served all people, over half of the police force would be rotting in solitary on their way to the gas chamber. I have no sympathy for rioters, but fuck tha police.

Pz is an opportunistic hack. And as much as I hate it, I understand the news. Beloved funny man ends his own life? That's shocking. Cop murdering a kid in cold blood in broad daylight? Dog bites man.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 10:30 AM  

"Oh? And what of the thousands who are murdered in black-on-black crimes, predominantly in liberal cesspools such as Chicago and the like?"

Well, those kids aren't being killed with my tax dollars in my name. Gang members don't steal from you and then have the audacity to try and tell you that it's for your own good.

Kelly Thomas was white. That didn't stop the police from murdering him, either.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 10:33 AM  

Popcorn time?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 August 13, 2014 10:34 AM  

Deliberately provoking people to anger and then acting as if wronged when they do get angry is a well-known trolling game by Narcissists.

It appears to be happening here right now. Anyone want to break out the rat poison?

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 10:40 AM  

No, swift. Read the topic of the post again. Real life proof in the comment section is a nice bonus.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 10:42 AM  

It got nuked...

Oh well. I had my hopes..

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 10:45 AM  

Jason goes his own way, guys. Unlike the rest of you manginas.
/sarc

Anonymous Porky August 13, 2014 10:45 AM  

One might think that PZ would have something nice to say about a fellow progressive who championed liberal causes and who portrayed feminists, queers and cross dressers with such alacrity.

Nope. Just chew him up like one feral hog eating the carcass of another feral hog.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 13, 2014 10:45 AM  

Markku and/or Vox,

You can nuke my response to Jason as well. Not really needed anymore.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 10:45 AM  

No need for that, Hamlet. The boy's a retarded atheist attention whore. Nothing more.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 10:47 AM  

"It got nuked."

Further proof of a kind and loving God.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 13, 2014 10:47 AM  

Toby Temple, what an odd little creature he is.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 10:48 AM  

If you want the observe the creature's nature, go to Alpha Game.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 10:49 AM  

*TO. not the. dammit!!!

Anonymous VD August 13, 2014 10:50 AM  

Popcorn time?

No, just a butthurt atheist MGTOW troll from AG. He makes PZ look smart and perceptive by comparison. Spammed.

My AQ must be high, b/c I understand Myers' points.

So does everyone. It's not a hard point to understand. It's not incorrect, it's merely obtuse, insensitive, and indicative of an inability to empathize with normal human emotions.

And, as I pointed out, in this case it is also hypocritical, since PZ expressed no concerns about Michael Brown in the previous five days either.

Is PZ going for page count or is he really that obtuse?

He's really that obtuse. He's got a 140+ IQ and an Asperger's Quotient score of 24, which is closer to Asperger's (32) than it is to the normal average (15). His readers are quite Aspy too, they reported an average of 27.8.

Anonymous Skindeep August 13, 2014 10:55 AM  

Social Autism is something you made up out of thin air and hatred, Vox. Its not a real thing.

Anonymous Salt August 13, 2014 11:00 AM  

Williams daughter has something to say about such people as PZ...

During her tribute to her father, Zelda referred to the hurtful messages with stereotypical Williams wit. "As for those who are sending negativity, know that some small, giggling part of him is sending a flock of pigeons to your house to poop on your car," she wrote. "Right after you’ve had it washed. After all, he loved to laugh too."


PZ, check your car!

Anonymous Michael August 13, 2014 11:06 AM  

Ghost, your argument is specious at best. Much of the inner city gang members live off government assistance, i.e. your tax dollars, though that's purely symptomatic of the larger issue. Because of the victim-hood perpetuated by the media and special interest groups, black communities believe that all of their failures and setbacks are the consequence of social stop-gaps created by the cunning evil white man (a stereotype to be sure), designed purely to prevent them from succeeding and therefore entitling them to a never-ending laundry list of special treatment, entitlements and hand outs. Thus the emotionally-charged rhetoric of race-baiters such as Sharpton who agitate animosity at every opportunity. It's not by sheer coincidence that practically any time the black community perceives some sort of social injustice, they resort to violence, looting and rioting, which in turn only fuels people's stereotypes about them. One might speculate that the government has a vested interest in maintaining racial tensions as far as possible so as to foster civil unrest, but whatever.

As far as the cops go, they've mutated into an organized gang acting with near-impunity. One only need see the local police in Ferguson, MO dressed in full military camo carrying rifles to understand what is really going on. There's no valid reason for them to dress up in quasi-military fashion unless they mean to go to war with the public.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:11 AM  

Look! It's back!

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 11:12 AM  

The blogs with racing spam comment is better than any of Jason's comments.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:15 AM  

Dominic Saltarelli. See. You're not a real atheists. Its time to cry now.

Anonymous Salt August 13, 2014 11:16 AM  

Aspie gonna aspie.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 13, 2014 11:18 AM  

Jason, you didn't make any argument. If the point was to display your emotions... well that one came across loud and clear. There certainly hasn't been any logic, let alone at every turn.

Blogger RandalThorn August 13, 2014 11:19 AM  

Vox, please, can we keep him? He (???) is so cute.

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 11:19 AM  

It's such a mystery why Jason doesn't have a girlfriend

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:19 AM  

It has feelings.. interesting!

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 11:20 AM  

If the retards from AlphaGame are going to try to comment here we're going to have to post border guards.

Anonymous Bz August 13, 2014 11:21 AM  

"Jessie Jackson reminded us white folks this week that there is a Ferguson near everyone"

And can we bulldoze it? YES WE CAN! (sorry)

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 11:23 AM  

We are seeing a live action lesson in atheist social autism.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:24 AM  

If the retards from AlphaGame are going to try to comment here we're going to have to post border guards.

Where's Markku? That bastard is late!!

Anonymous Soga August 13, 2014 11:24 AM  

Is this how atheists debate?

I don't know what's worse, "uh uh uh the niggers is not able to survive" or this Jason's idea of debating.

Anonymous Michael Falk, Autistic Reporter August 13, 2014 11:28 AM  



The truth is....the train is fine!

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 11:28 AM  

Michael,
Which part was specious? They don't collect food stamps for killing each other. This pig is on paid vacation after executing that kid.

Also, generally speaking, when there's a witness or two, the black killer goes to jail. Kelly Thomas was beaten to death on video camera by police for the crime of contempt of cop. If you want to say you don't care about Michael Brown because he was probably going to get shot by another black some other day, make that case. But to dismiss anger at state sanctioned gangland style executions because "blacks do it too!" is foolish at best, and ideologically complicit at worst.

Anonymous Salt August 13, 2014 11:30 AM  

Emotions run deep with this one.

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 11:31 AM  

Jason, I would encourage you to read The Irrational Atheist. A warning, though, you might find yourself working as a male prostitute in Nevada afterwards.

Anonymous VD August 13, 2014 11:32 AM  

Vox, please, can we keep him? He (???) is so cute.

Not a chance. He's the most incontinent troll I've ever seen.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:32 AM  

And then... its gone....

Anonymous VD August 13, 2014 11:34 AM  

Social Autism is something you made up out of thin air and hatred, Vox. Its not a real thing.

You're incorrect. Both the Boston University study and the other one supported my hypothesis. Why do you hate science, why?

Blogger Doom August 13, 2014 11:34 AM  

Okay, fine. I might have been rude about the suicide over at AG. And yet, I am thinking the shooting, was, probably, somehow, legit. I favor both, to great distress in the hand-wringing communities.

Personally I am hoping for a conflagration in the region, so as to impose a crack down and a lead in to deportation for not just illegals, but some so-called current American citizens. I'm not above it, I just don't really think either are important enough to bother blogging about, at this time, personally.

Just in case that judgment was being pointed at me, or whether my motives were likewise being questioned. Clarity.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:39 AM  

There you have it. Gravity doesn't exist! Because puhpuhpuhliticized science!!!

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 11:45 AM  

Personally, I've always thought we should repeal the law of gravity. No one voted for it, and it's holding us down.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet August 13, 2014 11:45 AM  

a green ecofascist

My head just spun. Never thought I'd see the day Vox was asked if he was a green ecofascist.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 13, 2014 11:45 AM  

"Social Autism is something you made up out of thin air and hatred, Vox. Its not a real thing."

Observe something, describe it, give it a label. That's what Vox did.

Some would call that science, but science would involve someone else applying some other observable and repeatable criteria to falsify it.

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 11:47 AM  

'Not a chance. He's the most incontinent troll I've ever seen."

indeed. For sheer spectacle its impressive though.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 11:47 AM  

What's a green ecofacist? Any examples? Is Al Gore one?

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 11:48 AM  

Doom,
If the pig didn't have a badge, shooting someone in the back from 35 ft away (which is what the pigs are claiming) who is unarmed could possibly be justified... how exactly?

Or is it just the badge that gets your boot licker all drooly?

Anonymous Michael August 13, 2014 11:50 AM  

Ghost, they collect freebies because they choose to and because the government allows them to. That the cops go on paid suspension, wrong as it is, doesn't change reality. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There are instances where people whose skin color is not black also get shot or beaten to death by cops. However, only one race goes around creating riots and mayhem in response and that is the black community. Tell me from what principle is it derived that if a person is shot dead by police, presumably because of race, that gives the rest of the community license to raise hell, go on a looting spree and burn the town to the ground? In what way does throwing a temper tantrum resolve the issue at hand and serve justice? The cop in question remains unscathed, after all.

Anonymous Gary Johnston August 13, 2014 11:56 AM  

Shut up, jason.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 12:08 PM  

Michael,
I think we're arguing the same thing. I'm not excusing the looters and rioters, I'm saying that when police murder someone, they invariably look at the rest of us and scream, "I did it for you!" Black on black crime isn't as big of a deal as cop on citizen crime to me, because I'm not black, and I'm a citizen. When the crips shoot the bloods, they aren't doing it with my taxes. Yes, a lot if them are on govt assistance. But they aren't being trained by the govt to murder, rape, or steal from anyone who doesn't share their costume.

And again, it's a bigger deal because they always get away with it. I would understand the looting and rioting if they were burning city hall or physically attacking police (not condone, understand) instead of the quick stop, but vibrants gonna vibrant. And honestly, I don't think race had anything to do with this kids murder. He simply failed to properly prostrate himself in front of His Majesty's men.

Much like that female cop vox blogged about awhile ago that shot a suspect for calling her a bitch, this has nothing to do with race. It's all about power. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find out that the cop who shot brown is a POC.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn August 13, 2014 12:09 PM  

First, he bids you make him shut up, and then, in the very next breath, complains that shutting him up is censorship and effeminate.

How charming.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 13, 2014 12:10 PM  

You want proof of Atheist Social Autism.

Not a single mention of Lauren Bacall's passing.

Disgusting philistines.

There was a woman who knew how a widow was supposed to be a widow: i.e. scandalously.


"I fought for that part; I wanted it badly. I took a lower salary, I did everything. Grace Kelly said, ‘I’ll never forgive you for playing that part. It was written for me.’ She got the prince, I got the part.."

--Lauren fucking Bacall

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 12:11 PM  

And yet, I am thinking the shooting, was, probably, somehow, legit.

I see you do not subscribe to the maxim NWA was right...

Anonymous Carlotta August 13, 2014 12:11 PM  

Doesn't PZ now qualify as an anti-semite? Let's not miss this opportunity.

Anonymous Sigmund Freud Jr. August 13, 2014 12:12 PM  

"And make me"

It's official, Josh is 12.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 12:13 PM  

After reading all his comments at AG, does anyone else think it's a possibility that Jason's last name is Jones, and he just went with the typo?

Blogger Giraffe August 13, 2014 12:13 PM  

I do have some concerns about cops shooting people of any color that don't need shooting. I'm not saying the Brown situation is an example of this, I haven't followed it. Nevertheless, the press covers that just as objectively as they do race issues. That isn't PZ"s angle I bet, he's all about the poor African American people and loves cops unless they shoot minorities.

As for Williams, if he doesn't want to be here...

Anonymous Krul August 13, 2014 12:15 PM  

Celebrity culture. Fuck it. These people do not have an emotional connection to Robin Williams, the man; it’s fine to like the actor/comedian and enjoy his work, but look at this thread, and my twitter feed: people are freaking out that someone pointed out that the obsession with celebrity is getting in the way of caring about things that matter.

What a pillock. It's natural to feel empathy for another person's pain when you become aware of it, and to feel sad when you've lost something - in this case a good man who improved our lives with his comedic performances. It's not "celebrity culture", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Anonymous Noah B. August 13, 2014 12:17 PM  

"If the pig didn't have a badge, shooting someone in the back from 35 ft away (which is what the pigs are claiming) who is unarmed could possibly be justified... how exactly?"

Fleeing felon rule. Whether or not the shooting was justified depends entirely on whether Michael Brown attacked the cop and tried to grab his gun. If Brown attempted to use deadly force against the cop, and then attempted to flee, then I think the shooting was at least morally justified. At that point, the cop had a choice between using deadly force to stop a fleeing felon or letting him go free into the community, possibly endangering the lives of others.

I do, however, think there's plenty of room to debate whether or not the cop is telling the truth about how the shooting happened.

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2014 12:17 PM  

I can't help offering Jason some sage advice from, yes, you all guessed it (and because I couldn't put it any better) .... the Rules of the Blog ...

1. You will be addressed in the style you choose. If you come in here slinging insults and acting disrespectfully, you will be treated with a contemptuous and derisive disdain that will, based on past experience, probably upset you. This is particularly true for visitors who are under the impression, mistaken or not, that they are far more intelligent than the average individual here. If instead, you elect to offer substantive and civil criticism, then you will meet with a similarly civil response . . . .the form the interaction will take is up to you.

Does nobody bother to read anymore? Sheeeesh .......

Anonymous Pellegri August 13, 2014 12:18 PM  

He's really that obtuse. He's got a 140+ IQ and an Asperger's Quotient score of 24, which is closer to Asperger's (32) than it is to the normal average (15). His readers are quite Aspy too, they reported an average of 27.8.

Oh wow. I score a 29, and I'm not this socially retarded.

Although the test also seemed to demonstrate a strong and not necessarily causative correlation between introversion and autism. I am sure there's literature on this and will go look it up when I get home this evening. Wonder if it matters what questions you answer "yes," too. Imaginative play, preferring isolation, and not being good at social chitchat seem like less autistic traits than not being able to read facial expressions. I'm surprised they're not weighted lower.

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 12:20 PM  

"Does nobody bother to read anymore? Sheeeesh ......."

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE RULES???

Mark it zero!

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 12:20 PM  

It's official, Josh is 12.

Dammit, how did you know?

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 12:22 PM  

I do, however, think there's plenty of room to debate whether or not the cop is telling the truth about how the shooting happened.

Given that the police response has been to say nothing and send in armored vehicles, I'm guessing the official story is wrong.

Blogger Russell August 13, 2014 12:26 PM  

"voxco's tyrannical choice"

I can him shaking with fury and spittle flying as he completely fails to understand the rules of a house guest and the host's civilized response to someone that insists on defecating on the carpet.

"Tyranny, man! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 12:27 PM  

IT'S THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!!!

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 12:29 PM  

Noah,
Thank you. I highly doubt the cops version, because they always lie. It's standard operating procedure. Legally, the fleeing felon rule might apply. However morally, it's rather dubious, as the officer, by all accounts, was attempting to arrest the kid for walking. At that point, the kid is defending himself from an abduction.

Anonymous Gary Johnston August 13, 2014 12:29 PM  

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE RULES???

Mark it zero!


Classic. And said with 1911 in hand...

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 12:30 PM  

Jason...

Tits or GTFO

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn, Emperor of Midgard August 13, 2014 12:31 PM  

And you wonder why I am so confident of victory, in the end.

Exhibit One: Jason Jonea.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 12:31 PM  

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lapd-shoot-and-kill-black-man-while-he-reportedly-lay-on-ground/

If I had a Twitter, I would start #DornerWasRight.

Anonymous Gary Johnston August 13, 2014 12:31 PM  

"Northern Hamlet, you probably haven't scorched his whole worldview to the ground as I have effectively done. "

Jason stop!
My sides are starting to hurt!!

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 12:35 PM  

Jason, have you met Eliza?

I think y'all would get along mahvelously dahling.

Anonymous Rex Little August 13, 2014 12:39 PM  

@Giraffe:
he [PZ] loves cops unless they shoot minorities.

I don't think so. From the linked post: "We’re supposed to want to believe the police, you know, yet all the evidence points to their status as a gang of militarized thugs."

(Who else do we know who regularly describes the police that way? Hint: PZ's head would probably explode at the idea of agreeing with him about anything.)

Blogger James Dixon August 13, 2014 12:40 PM  

Is Jason Asher after a bad LSD trip?

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 12:42 PM  

I want to say that Jason's idiocy is off topic... but it really isn't. Its more like... on topic performance art.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat August 13, 2014 12:42 PM  

Fleeing felon rule... If Brown attempted to use deadly force against the cop, and then attempted to flee, then I think the shooting was at least morally justified.

Mas Ayoob could tell a bunch of tales how this doesn't work; he's had to give expert testimony many a times to show that a bad guy was spun around on shot one, and then got shot in the back, because the prosecution was trying to prove that the perp/victim was instead running away.

Most states in the US give no justifiable defense to either cop or citizen for shooting a person disengaging and fleeing. (No, don't bring up "running towards someone else" or some such; that's different and we all know it.)

I would understand the looting and rioting if they were burning city hall or physically attacking police (not condone, understand) instead of the quick stop, but vibrants gonna vibrant.

I hate to pull an old AOL, but I have to second this one. If you have a beef with the Man, stick it to the Man. I can sympathize with a crew that wanted to tar and feather Mr. Mayor, or overthrow the modern Bastille. It might not be wise or even justified, but it's understandable. However, using the opportunity for the five-finger discount against the only people willing to provide you your necessities strikes me as terribly counter-productive.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn August 13, 2014 12:46 PM  

Is Jason Asher after a bad LSD trip?

Ah, no. Asher would dicker with you about the meaning of "is". Jason is merely obstreperous, and upset that his mother has a larger clientele in the Third Marine Division than he does.

Blogger James Dixon August 13, 2014 12:49 PM  

> Jason is merely obstreperous, and upset that his mother has a larger clientele in the Third Marine Division than he does.

I yield to your expertise and eloquence, Loki. :)

Blogger Chiva August 13, 2014 12:49 PM  

I was wondering who this Jason guy was (his comments were removed). Now I see. Interesting.

Anonymous Noah B. August 13, 2014 12:53 PM  

However morally, it's rather dubious, as the officer, by all accounts, was attempting to arrest the kid for walking. At that point, the kid is defending himself from an abduction.

That's not what happened "by all accounts." The police have at least claimed that the cop was pushed into his car, which would have given them cause to arrest Brown.

As prolific as cell phone cameras are, it's suspicious that no one has posted video of any of this. It's also suspicious that Ferguson police haven't released the audio from the shooting.

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2014 12:54 PM  

"AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE RULES???"

I have read the "Rules of the Blog" to my family on a number of occasions. There are a number of valuable lessons that are worth transmitting to this present generation. The principles expressed in the "Rules" have become an integral part of our homeschool curriculum .... specifically our rhetoric, writing, and reading courses ..... ah yes, those damn pesky rules which demand intelligent and substantive discourse ....

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 1:01 PM  

Jason...

Tits or GTFO

Anonymous Gary Johnston August 13, 2014 1:03 PM  

Did Jason just go Godwin on us?

That's hellalame.

Anonymous Krul August 13, 2014 1:07 PM  

The first time I glimpsed the handle "Jason Jonea", my mind read it as "Jason Gonorrhea". Prescience?

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2014 1:07 PM  

Waaaaiiiit for it ..... waiiiiit for it ....

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 1:09 PM  

Noah, you're right. I forgot a word. I meant that by all *credible* accounts. Even then, "pushing" is a felony because the little dick maggot has a badge?

And it's not suspicious at all that they haven't released the audio/dash cam evidence. Why would they release something they're trying to destroy?

And unless there were security cameras aimed at the streets, why would anyone be videoing a street with their cell phones? How many times have you gotten your camera ready just as the moment ends? 75% of the time, myself.

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 1:12 PM  

The ilk have a hard time when two of the groups they dislike are at odds. Ilk don't much care for vibrants... ilk don't much care for cops. The ilk that dislike cops more than vibrants go after the cops... the ilk that dislike vibrants more than cops go after the vibrants.

My take? Cops are in authority. Cops lie. Thus... until proven otherwise... the cop lied and is a murdering asshole.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn August 13, 2014 1:13 PM  

And it's not suspicious at all that they haven't released the audio/dash cam evidence. Why would they release something they're trying to destroy?

It was probably stored on the IRS e-mail server.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 1:15 PM  

Nate is picking up what I'm laying down.

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2014 1:16 PM  

"......please don't respond to the trolls .... just ignore them as someone will get around to deleting their comments as well as the comments of those who respond to them soon enough."

Momentary lapse of reason ... please forgive .... :)

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2014 1:17 PM  

My hypocrisy knows no bounds ....

Anonymous Alexander August 13, 2014 1:20 PM  

Nate, my take to that dilemma is:

Cops gonna cop. Now the idea that a vibrant youth would engage it some mischief worthy of being shot at is a reasonable one, but my gut reaction is that the cop was wrong until proven otherwise.

But then I have to ask, what did Taco Bell do? In this case in particular, I mean, since their day-to-day crimes against gastronomy are well documented...

Really though, they're two parts of the same problem. Remove the vibrants, remove the pretext for needing the cops.

Anonymous Porky August 13, 2014 1:20 PM  

Wow. Just wow.

Anonymous Alexander August 13, 2014 1:22 PM  

There's always Napoleon's solution of course and for us to feel and do nothing. And frankly, if nationwide blacks vs. police leads to widespread destruction in places like New York City and Los Angeles... there's an argument to be made that that's just an added bonus.

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 1:24 PM  

"Wow. Just wow." - Porky


I know right? Point proven.

Anonymous Michael Maier August 13, 2014 1:24 PM  

SHAMWow, even.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 1:27 PM  

But wait! There's more!

Anonymous FP August 13, 2014 1:28 PM  

"Mas Ayoob could tell a bunch of tales how this doesn't work;"

Indeed. Yet he also defended the cops in the Guerena case in Arizona. Look up his blog on the backwoods home site. Ayoob is/was a reserve cop in NH if I recall correctly. His response to critics on his blog was along the lines of "anyone who disagrees with me has a chip on their shoulder and maybe a parole officer".

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 1:33 PM  

My take? Cops are in authority. Cops lie. Thus... until proven otherwise... the cop lied and is a murdering asshole.

Preach

Blogger Nate August 13, 2014 1:37 PM  

"anyone who disagrees with me has a chip on their shoulder and maybe a parole officer".

Yep.

Debating him on anything was like debating a liberal. His first three choices of tactics were 1) disqualify 2) disqualify and 3) disqualify

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 1:46 PM  

Ok. Did someone count how many times the nuke button was pressed? Anyone?

Blogger Giraffe August 13, 2014 1:54 PM  

@ Rex.

Yes, a rush to judgement on my part.

Anonymous MPC August 13, 2014 1:56 PM  

RE: Ferguson Rioters, a video from a black man on the subject. Showing this to PoZzed Myers would probably give him a (long overdue) heart attack:

Black Man Goes on EPIC Rant Against Ferguson Rioters

Bible quotes! Real talk! Praise the Lord and pass the ammo, videos like this give me a glimmer of hope for humanity.

Anonymous scoobius dubious August 13, 2014 1:59 PM  

Man, I'm sorry I missed out on this Jason character. It looks like all his rants were deleted. Sounds like it was fun.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 2:02 PM  

Toby,
More than should be necessary for anyone over 12 and in possession of testosterone. I called it over at AG. Jason is Dave Fatrelle.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 2:04 PM  

Last I checked the mgtow thread on AG, he was still being just as... well, why ruin the surprise?

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 2:05 PM  

You mean Dave Futrelle, Ghost?

Blogger Markku August 13, 2014 2:14 PM  

I am happy to inform you that all Jason's messages remain out there, and can be found in the post "Saving civilization is not "manning up""

It is extremely entertaining stuff. Perhaps not at first, but if you watch him unravel and remain unentertained, then you are a hard audience indeed.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 2:16 PM  

Oh, did I misspell that? Nudge nudge, wink wink.

Blogger Markku August 13, 2014 2:17 PM  

Also, as was easy to guess, someone (not me) wrote an Encyclopedia Dramatica entry on Eliza.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 2:18 PM  

Though, I first saw it spelled that way at the chateau. I can be originally witty, but that one is stolen.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 13, 2014 2:26 PM  

Always picking on fat people, aren't we? heh

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 2:30 PM  

Only when they deserve it, Toby. Only when they deserve it.

Anonymous Don August 13, 2014 2:30 PM  

The guy up thread who related this to the collegiate debate winners is exactly correct. With no ability to respond rationally (not options plenty of options just no ability) they engage in totally ridiculous behavior.

I'd prefer the interpretive dance, drumming, and repetitions of 'niggers is queer' and 'a nigger can't survive' being performed in an impromptu manner to looting but when violence is on the table you can bet non-violence always off the table in these communities.

Anonymous Andy August 13, 2014 2:31 PM  

Of course PZ is wrong. I have never met Williams but DO have an emotional connection to him, he made me lauh and he made me cry.
Myers makes me want to shit.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat August 13, 2014 2:34 PM  

Debating him on anything was like debating a liberal. His first three choices of tactics were 1) disqualify 2) disqualify and 3) disqualify

Absolutely. One time he was bemoaning some of the lack of respect cops were getting, and I almost posted about how people didn't care because they were tired of being treated as the enemy. Almost, since I don't like casting my pearls (even if they're faded, worn-out imitations) before, well, you know. It just wasn't worth it.

That said, Ayoob is one of the top three or so in the field of expert testimony for shooting reconstruction, and talking about how shooting a person in the back usually gets you a trip on the murder trial roller-coaster. If the cop weren't wearing a badge, he absolutely would have.

I sure wouldn't put $5 down on him even facing a grand jury, and I absolutely wouldn't put $10 on him facing a trial, whether he should or not.

Anonymous GreyS August 13, 2014 2:47 PM  

Myers' disdain for the cult of personality has merit

A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and at times, worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise.

That doesn't describe Robin Williams at all. Just because a society gets to know someone through tv, film, and media doesn't mean they are worshiping him. Williams has been visible in these ways for decades. There is a certain level of getting to know a person through these means, regardless of whether or not we knew him on an intimate level as his family did.

Just as people overestimate their knowing and connection to/of a person from these sources, others dismiss any level of knowing and connection simply because that knowing was through tv, film, media.

If Robin Williams was a guy from down the street, who stopped by your front gate several times a year for decades and performed skits, comedy routines, talked about his personal life-- in other words do everything people have seen him do on tv etc-- even though through these walk-bys you didn't know him intimately and he didn't know you, you'd still know him at a certain level, and it would have nothing to do with worshiping him or idealizing him.


Blogger jaericho August 13, 2014 2:57 PM  

I am happy to inform you that all Jason's messages remain out there, and can be found in the post "Saving civilization is not "manning up""

I just read some of those comments. Just... ShamWow

Anonymous Noah B. August 13, 2014 3:23 PM  

"My take? Cops are in authority. Cops lie. Thus... until proven otherwise... the cop lied and is a murdering asshole."

I haven't seen any real evidence yet, so for me it just boils down to who you believe less. Might as well flip a coin.

Anonymous bb753 August 13, 2014 3:24 PM  

Robin Williams was broke, not rich. That's one of the reasons for his suicide. http://www.avoiceformen.com/avfm-editorial/did-the-family-courts-kill-robin-williams-or-was-it-just-us/

Anonymous Don August 13, 2014 3:44 PM  

Many middle aged men commit suicide over financial troubles. I wouldn't be surprised if it outnumbers the 'bullied gay teens' we're supposed to be up in arms about.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 3:48 PM  

If you haven't heard Dave Foley's interview on Joe Rogan about his divorce, and the ass raping the Canadian divorce courts put him through, it's enough to scare anyone away from marriage. If I find it on YouTube, I'll post it. Very, very similar to Robin Williams's ridiculous alimony payments.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 3:51 PM  

http://youtu.be/SaC-2lj6HNg
really should have just looked first. About 20 min long, and absolutely infuriating.

Anonymous Porky August 13, 2014 4:47 PM  

So LAPD just shot an unarmed retarded kid in the back while he was restrained on the ground.

I wonder if the cop's camera will suddenly develop "technical problems".

Anonymous Josh August 13, 2014 4:58 PM  

The worst part of outfitting our police officers as soldiers has been psychological. Give a man access to drones, tanks, and body armor, and he'll reasonably think that his job isn't simply to maintain peace, but to eradicate danger. Instead of protecting and serving, police are searching and destroying.

Deadspin.com

Anonymous Noah B. August 13, 2014 5:14 PM  

Reminds me of the BART shooting a few years ago, Porky. That cop served something like a year in prison for a downgraded offense like involuntary manslaughter, when cell phone video clearly indicated it was cold blooded murder. There, the cop slowly and calmly drew and fired his weapon into the back of a handcuffed man lying on the ground, and did not react after the weapon fired.

Instead of rendering aid to the victim, the other cops immediately began confiscating cell phones.

Blogger Ghost August 13, 2014 5:20 PM  

I remember that BART shooting. Oscar something was the victim. From every angle, that was murder. But badges grant murdering rights, I suppose.

Anonymous Noah B. August 13, 2014 5:26 PM  

One wonders what a police officer would need to do in order for an on-duty killing to be considered murder. Would sodomizing and cannibalizing the corpse be sufficient, or could that be considered justified under exigent circumstances?

Anonymous Noah B. August 13, 2014 5:33 PM  

Thanks again, Tyler.

Anonymous releases audio of Michael Brown shooting.

Blogger Markku August 13, 2014 5:53 PM  

One wonders what a police officer would need to do in order for an on-duty killing to be considered murder.

Shoot a higher-up officer. Intentionally or otherwise.

Blogger JACIII August 13, 2014 6:04 PM  

Williams hasn't been funny for decades and if you listen to much comedy lately you would discover it is so lockstep lefty that it makes the pinkshirts seem positively redneck.

I don't know what the gatekeeper situation could be in the comedic industry, but they make the dinosaur media pink SF editors look weak and uncommitted.

Blogger Outlaw X August 13, 2014 8:24 PM  

What JACIII said.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope August 13, 2014 8:48 PM  

I'm with Nate on this. I don't have to be a lover or hater of vibrants to know that cops lie. Every time where there is the slightest chance that they did something wrong, they lie.

Family friend was a deputy sheriff (he was in his mid-20's), and had to shoot a vibrant who refused to drop an AK in a parking lot of a bank. Did he need to cover up, make up a story, plant evidence, confiscate the bank camera footage, "lose" his dash cam recording? No. On the other hand, after he was quickly absolved of any wrongdoing (multiple witnesses, clear evidence, etc), within a couple years he quit and moved to another state.

I wonder if the blacks are starting to riot on a hair trigger because of the disappointment about getting one of their own in the White House, yet nothing really has changed, and the disconnect between the Oprah talking points and their day to day reality is making them angry.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp August 13, 2014 9:24 PM  

"because of the disappointment about getting one of their own in the White House, yet nothing really has changed"

The big problem of course is the magical-thinking expectations. When JFK was elected, the Irish (and Catholics and white-ethnics in general) were happy and proud because it signified that they were officially normal Americans, not outsiders. They didn't think Kennedy was going to give them all a free lifetime supply of corned beef and cabbage.

Blacks tend to have a very unrealistic sense of how politics really works, and what they're owed in terms of entitlements and slices of the pie. The adult response to BHO's election should have been "Great, now we have a seat at the big table, and the keys to the smoke-filled back room. We're players like everybody else." Instead, they wanted... well, I'm not sure I really understand what they thought Obama was going to do for them, but it has the faint whiff of cargo-cult mentality.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus August 14, 2014 8:37 AM  

Ghost: "I remember that BART shooting. Oscar something was the victim."

Oscar Grant.

Ghost: "From every angle, that was murder. But badges grant murdering rights, I suppose."

The police operate as pseudo-samurai with a right of "killing and going away", and courts honor that un-constitutional and un-legislated right.

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