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Sunday, August 17, 2014

Hugo Awards 2014

This is an open thread to discuss the Hugo Awards being given out this today at 2 PM EST. Go ahead and give your predictions and post the winners as they come in. I don't know if I'll be around or not.

UPDATE: Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Tor editor, self-admitted racist, and confirmed anuraphile, is nothing but pure class:

P Nielsen Hayden ‏@pnh 27m
Good luck to most of the Hugo nominees tonight! Except for one particular would-be fascist, to whom bad cess and embarrassing skin diseases.

UPDATE 2: Ginjer Buchanan won the Editor Long Form award. If Toni Weisskopf didn't win that, it's safe to conclude things will go according to the usual form.

UPDATE 3: A true travesty! Dinopornia is denied the double! We're expected to believe that gay Asian angst is the best that science fiction has to offer in short form these days. And they wonder why subscriptions have declined precipitously.

UPDATE 4: Lady Astronaut wins Best Novelette. Why is "Lady Editor" deemed unforgivable sexism, but "Lady Astronaut" deemed perfectly fine? Trying to be brave here and remind myself it's really an honor just to be nominated....

UPDATE 5: The pinkshirts are celebrating. James Worrad tweets: "Said it yourself, bitch: we're the guardians of the galaxy." #DiversityInSF #hugoawards" What galaxy is that, the gay angsty one?

UPDATE 6: Yergh. Stross wins for Equoid. That's genuinely nasty. These are some seriously disturbed people here. Of course, they're the same people who gave a lifetime achievement award to Marion Zimmer Bradley.

UPDATE 7: Wow, Ancillary Justice beat out Wheel of Time. Well, at least it's not as embarrassing as Redshirts, although I have no doubt in future years people will wonder how it managed to win so many awards. It should be interesting to see how the voting went. I'll post the numbers here in a bit.

RESULTS: It's official. I am more hated than Larry. Take that, International Lord of Hate. 6th in a five-man race! That's totally going in the bio.

WARBOUND 1161
NO AWARD  1052

NO AWARD 1232
OPERA VITA AETERNA 855

"The Chaplain's Legacy" actually came in third in the initial vote, but the peculiarities of the Hugo vote dropped it back to fourth. And "The Exchange Officers" finished fourth. Toni Weisskopf actually had the most first-place votes initially, 384 to 359, but again, the voting system dropped her back and she came in second, 678-474.

Good show, everyone. I can honestly say that I have never had so much fun losing an award.

165 Comments:

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 1:40 PM  

It seems pretty clear that Dino-Pr0n is going to win it's award. It's basically an affirmative action award for the authoress.

Anonymous Sun Xhu August 17, 2014 1:44 PM  

I don't know if I'll be around or not.

I think VD already has had news of the results, and is quickly jetting to LonCon to personally accept the award.

Just to see the expressions on the Toad's face, first-hand. ;)

Anonymous Steve August 17, 2014 1:46 PM  

Good luck. It'd really rustle some SJW jimmies if anyone from the Evil League of Evil won :)

If Jurassic Twat wins, meh. The pinkies can give each other awards all they want, people still won't buy their stories.

Anonymous Knight August 17, 2014 1:50 PM  

"P Nielsen Hayden ‏@pnh 27m
Good luck to most of the Hugo nominees tonight! Except for one particular would-be fascist, to whom bad cess and embarrassing skin diseases."

All the charm in the world doesn't seem to matter. You just can't win some folks over.

Anonymous ivvenalis August 17, 2014 1:59 PM  

This seems like as good a place as any to post this. From a used bookstore a few days ago.

http://imgur.com/hnSqiq9

Blogger Jon Bromfield August 17, 2014 2:00 PM  

The online streaming will begin at noon PST, I believe. Hope they've solved the technical problems experienced at the Retro Hugos last Thursday (no or inaudible audio), but the real time comments were much more entertaining than the show.

Expecting pandemonium and wrist slashing to break out when Larry and/or Vox wins!

Blogger Manach August 17, 2014 2:15 PM  

As other posters mentioned, the sound problems in the retro-hugos did give the ceremony a rather farcical air.

Blogger Doorstop August 17, 2014 2:17 PM  

Good luck to everyone in the Evil League of Evil. Been looking forward to this day and feeling a bit of withdrawal ever since voting closed last month. The website says the award ceremony starts at "20:00 (8 PM) British Summer Time" (GMT+1:00), which means 3pm EDT here in Michigan...plenty of time to know the results before going to watch Expendables 3 with a buddy tonight.

Anonymous Obvious August 17, 2014 2:58 PM  

So have we figured out the official line for when they don't win? Are we going with Rabbits don't know good literature, or the normal cry of Pinko censorship?

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 2:58 PM  

dh, since you are apparently catastrophically misinformed about Qt, then I'll just cross-post just this once, in case you are no longer reading the original thread.

---

Qt has absolutely no connection whatsoever to Microsoft. Zero. From wikipedia:

Digia is a Finnish software company quoted on the Helsinki Stock Exchange, and is listed on NASDAQ OMX Helsinki (DIG1V). (...) In 2011, Digia acquired the commercial licensing business for Qt from Nokia.[2][3] This was followed in August 2012, by Digia acquiring Qt from Nokia.

Anonymous Dh August 17, 2014 3:00 PM  

Marku- thanks I did not know. I still dislike kde but not for this reasons.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 3:13 PM  

I shudder at the thought of Microsoft having managed to get its greedy fingers on my favorite framework. Luckily, it was put out of their reach at the eleventh hour.

Anonymous ApolloK August 17, 2014 3:14 PM  

Uggh... Ken Burns Effect fail on the livestream

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:19 PM  

Yeah, right, because embarrassing skin diseases always stop fascists from tossing allies like Hayden into the ovens. Hayden should be wishing a weight-loss program on himself. Yes, he'll fit more easily through the gas chamber doors, but he should be able to outrun his brethren when Jeff Bezos finally sends his stormtroopers after them.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:20 PM  

Awards started at 8:16. For a moment there, I wondered if No Award had been named guest emcee.

Anonymous Anonymous August 17, 2014 3:21 PM  

bad cess and skin disease?

What kind of passive aggressive douche says such things? This guy must routinely look at himself naked in the mirror to see if his penis is still attached.

Anonymous Stilicho August 17, 2014 3:22 PM  

The best result would be enough wins for the rabbits to become complacent and cocky. It would reinforce their notion that they are a majority.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:22 PM  

Two straight years and the Hugos can't get their science fictiony high-tech text messaging system to synchronize! Worldcon needs a Monolith.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:24 PM  

Ha ha ha ha! The first thing the emcees acknowledge is that not all of the audience may identify as male or female!

Blogger Tommy Hass August 17, 2014 3:27 PM  

How can a small state, limited government guy like Vox be a fascist?

I mean, if he wants to call him an inconsiderate asshole, why does he not go ahead and say as much. NOOO, it has to be some sort of pseudo political term that puts him in league with ole Adolf.

Anonymous UnCouth August 17, 2014 3:28 PM  

It's a heifer, by a nose.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:28 PM  

The finalists for the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer are:

Wesley Chu
Max Gladstone*
Ramez Naam*
Sofia Samatar*
Benjanun Sriduangkaew

Winner is Sofia Samatar.

Never heard of any of them.

Blogger JS August 17, 2014 3:28 PM  

As John C. Wright so eloquently put it the other day:

"The first thing to realize is the the word has been etiolated by the Left to refer to anything they dislike, including, but not limited to, populist military dictatorships, constitutional monarchies, absolute monarchies, plutocracies, limited-government-style constitutional republics, English-style class systems, and various other forms of government which are mutually exclusive. Hence, when used by a Leftist, the word means ‘enemy’ and overlooks that fascism is merely one brand of Leftist secular doctrines of socialist utopian thinking."

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:30 PM  

I for one can not identify much of the audience as male or female. Sofia didn't go to the awards, so some...person...possibly even a cisperson with blue hair accepted the award for him/her/it/sliding scale/damien walter.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:32 PM  

Another girl wins best fan artist. Isn't there, so a dude (although one who may or may not identify as such) came to pick it up. These awards are so prestigious that the winners send servants to pick them up.

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 3:33 PM  

Safe space. he said safe space.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:35 PM  

A different chick picks up for Fan Writer. Boy, I bet these fan winners are really busy working on their next free fanzine to pay to not show up for the most prestigious award in fandom.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:36 PM  

Just found out that the winner of fan artist is literally and physically provably a teenage girl. McRapey has got to be so jealous.

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 3:41 PM  

Imagine her with a beard? Ah, okay.

[begins choking]

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 3:41 PM  

What kind of physical proving are we talking here, Daniel?

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:43 PM  

There have been four awards given. None of the winners bothered to show up. Perhaps fandom doesn't really merit a spot on the program.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:44 PM  

What kind of physical proving are we talking here, Daniel?

The usual bit: birth certificate and a note from her doctor, plus a permission slip from Damien Walter.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

Blogger JS August 17, 2014 3:47 PM  

Getting close to the first award that will give a bit of a signal to how we can expect things to go. If Toni Weisskopf wins it's going to be an interesting rest of the ceremony

Anonymous NateM August 17, 2014 3:47 PM  

"I think VD already has had news of the results, and is quickly jetting to LonCon to personally accept the award."

Only if he makes a musical entrance singing Hooked on a feeling "

Blogger buzzardist August 17, 2014 3:48 PM  

Daniel,

These are also fan awards, and most don't live in Britain. Traveling to London is expensive, more so for people who aren't profiting from their hobbies. Give them a pass.

On the other hand, if best novelist doesn't show up, that says something.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:52 PM  

Okay. Its all fan and media awards for another hour. I realize now why these rabbits can give themselves awards in perpetuity: no one else wants them.

Blogger Krul August 17, 2014 3:52 PM  

When are they going to get to the Evil League of Evil?

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 3:53 PM  

I'm back in time for the fun. Based on the early returns, I think it looks like a good night for the pinkshirts, with the likely exception of the Wheel of Time.

Anonymous David of One August 17, 2014 3:53 PM  

Do you want to watch? http://www.ustream.tv/hugo-awards

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 3:54 PM  

On the other hand, if best novelist doesn't show up, that says something.

In fairness, I expect he's dead.

Blogger Kryten 2X4B 523P August 17, 2014 3:54 PM  

Damien Walter ‏@damiengwalter 4 mins
2014 has been an AMAZING year for inclusiveness in SF fandom, that’s rightly reflected in this year’s #hugoawards

With a bit of luck he'll be eating those words later.....

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 3:58 PM  

Buzzardist, the Hugos have already given them a pass. I just think it is a complete waste of time to give out a flotilla of "on behalf" awards. The Oscars has a bunch of stuff they give out the day before at a Holiday Inn or something. L. Ron Hubbard's Writers of the Future contest deals with amateurs way better: they pay for their trip! and give them a writing workshop.

When the Scientologists are treating nobodies better than your Award Ceremony, maybe it is time to take the fan awards out of the Gala, is all I'm saying. An announcement that "we will be shipping the following fan hugos to the winners (and name the winners and nominees)" would have been sufficient.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 4:04 PM  

Best Professional Artist just went to a girl who isn't there to accept. Kind of funny that sci fi can't attract women even by giving them awards... I think Hayden and Kramer just need to splurge and get themselves a white van. They can call it vandom to make it seem acceptable.

Anonymous Obvious August 17, 2014 4:05 PM  

Toni didn't win?!

Blogger JS August 17, 2014 4:06 PM  

Toni didn't win, looks like it's going to be a long night of rabbit victories

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 4:06 PM  

Toni Weisskopf did not win Best Editor. I believe Vox has called it: Pinkshirts didn't No Award themselves out of their own awards.

This time.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 4:08 PM  

It is a night of puppy-related sadness.

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 4:09 PM  

Toni didn't win, looks like it's going to be a long night of rabbit victories

Yes, which you may recall is what both Larry and I expected.

Blogger Beefy Levinson August 17, 2014 4:09 PM  

I, for one, am amused by the idea of Vox entering the convention with WWE style pyrotechnics and theme song.

Anonymous zeonxavier August 17, 2014 4:10 PM  

I wonder if they would allow Senor Correia to verify that the votes were tabulated correctly?

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 4:10 PM  

Lets see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Anonymous Knight August 17, 2014 4:10 PM  

Do you have to buy your clothes at Goodwill to attend the Hugo Awards? Is that some sort of requirement?

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 4:12 PM  

Lets see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

We will. I just want to see the PDF. One must commend them for releasing it so promptly. They were amazingly good about that with the 1939 awards.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 4:16 PM  

What is going to be very interesting in this little experiment is both the vote counts and the impact of No Award votes. I assume that will be posted somewhere?

Blogger Vox August 17, 2014 4:21 PM  

What is going to be very interesting in this little experiment is both the vote counts and the impact of No Award votes. I assume that will be posted somewhere?

They'll have it up as soon as Best Novel is announced. I'll post the major results here. My expectation is that Larry, Brad, Toni, and I will fare well in the first vote that includes all five nominees, coming in second or third, then subsequently falling away to last place, probably behind No Award in my case and possibly Larry's.

That was the pattern I observed with Ayn Rand.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 4:35 PM  

What I don't really understand is this: How would I, as a reader, even BEGIN to assess who is deserving of an editor award. I mean, with Vox as our editor in chief, I can see the process while it happens. But if it weren't the case, then what would I be looking at?

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 4:44 PM  

got lots of screen shots of the chat stream

Blogger pyrrhus August 17, 2014 4:45 PM  

The Lady Astronaut from Mars.....

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 4:49 PM  

got lots of screen shots of the chat stream

If there is anything amusing, type it up and send it here. I'll post it tomorrow.

Blogger pyrrhus August 17, 2014 4:51 PM  

Is Jo Fletcher a person or a place....

Anonymous trev006 August 17, 2014 4:59 PM  

Man. Ancillary Justice won this thing? I'm surprised, I thought Tor would have been relentless in pimping WoT for the win. Then again, an organized campaign is a hard thing to beat, whatever the field of endeavor.

But Warbound hasn't stopped being good- quite the opposite. Good try anyways, lads.

Blogger pyrrhus August 17, 2014 5:03 PM  

"Lady Astronaut from Mars" sounds like a spoof.

Blogger Jon Bromfield August 17, 2014 5:04 PM  

Only real surprise to me was that the dino revenge porn didn't win. I thought it was a shoo-in.

Anonymous JB August 17, 2014 5:10 PM  

Details are up now:
http://loncon3.org/hugos/2014%20Hugo%20awards%20full%20details.pdf

Vox, does that mean you need c 1,500 votes to pretty much guarantee winning a category?

Anonymous Steve August 17, 2014 5:10 PM  

trev006 - So say we all! Warbound is awesome. The entire Grimnoir cycle is great. I'm not usually keen on fantasy or alternate history stories but I was hooked from the start and binge-read my way through all three of those books.

Anonymous Anonymous August 17, 2014 5:11 PM  

by Potatohead

couple of interesting bits from comments in UStream

5:58 ustreamer-024094: lol, crawl back into your 17th century hovels, Vox fans

5:59 ustreamer-557603: sff in terminal decline because the misogynist, racist neocons that ruled it in the past don't win awards :(

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 5:11 PM  

Nothing Earth shattering in the chat stream. This one though -

"4:55 ustreamer-557603: the irony of vox fans touting story over message"

It was quite civil, actually. A few censored here and there.

Anonymous Wyrd August 17, 2014 5:20 PM  

UPDATE 5: The pinkshirts are celebrating. James Worrad tweets: "Said it yourself, bitch: we're the guardians of the galaxy." #DiversityInSF #hugoawards" What galaxy is that, the gay angsty one?

You owe me a new keyboard, Vox.

Anonymous JB August 17, 2014 5:20 PM  

You have to be a proper ignoramus to call Vox a neocon. I'd take offense if I were the evil lord of evil...

Blogger Retrenched August 17, 2014 5:22 PM  

So, um, congratulations Vox, I guess?

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 5:23 PM  

Twitter is where the action is going to be.

"SFReviews.net/SFF180 ‏@SFReviewsnet 11m

In the novelette category, Vox not only lost to a woman, he lost to "No Award." http://loncon3.org/hugos/2014%20Hugo%20awards%20full%20details.pdf …"

Anonymous Obvious August 17, 2014 5:24 PM  

My expectation is that Larry, Brad, Toni, and I will fare well in the first vote that includes all five nominees, coming in second or third, then subsequently falling away to last place, probably behind No Award in my case and possibly Larry's.

Or, that you'll all be consistently near the bottom and at no point be anywhere close to winning. Except for Toni Weisskopf.

Anonymous Stickwick August 17, 2014 5:29 PM  

Daniel: Two straight years and the Hugos can't get their science fictiony high-tech text messaging system to synchronize! Worldcon needs a Monolith.

First things first. The secret is to bang the rocks together, guys.

Anonymous Alexander August 17, 2014 5:31 PM  

Well, the fun's not over yet. No doubt very soon our friend Damien will close the ceremonies with a masterful performance.

Anonymous Doug Wardell August 17, 2014 5:33 PM  

Well that sucks. I guess we'll just have to try harder next year. That or establish a new set of awards that actually prioritizes outstanding work above all else.

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 5:34 PM  

"Gav Mc ‏@Antihippy 1m

First #hugoawards this of note I've noticed is resounding no to the fascism block vote. Which is nice. :)"



Anonymous trev006 August 17, 2014 5:39 PM  

Well, Vox me old china, I know you're emotionally devastated by your loss at the Hugo's, but cheer up! You got more nominations that Rachel Swirsky, and she is a Nambula award winner.

/going to hell

Anonymous B Lewis August 17, 2014 5:41 PM  

2014 has been an AMAZING year for inclusiveness in SF fandom, Sadly, it has been a less than amazing year for quality science fiction storytelling.

Anonymous NateM August 17, 2014 5:42 PM  

Damien Walter ‏@damiengwalter 23m
Here is the full breakdown of votes for #hugoawards humiliating reading for vote riggers http://loncon3.org/hugos/2014%20Hugo%20awards%20full%20details.pdf …

Yes cause Vox coming in 6th of 5 candidates demonstrates OUR side's vote rigging prowess

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 5:43 PM  

That or establish a new set of awards that actually prioritizes outstanding work above all else.

I WOULD say that I think we should just vote with our wallets, and leave the rabbits to celebrate each other.

But then, someone might credibly say that I'm not in the best position to grandstand in this...

Anonymous Bz August 17, 2014 5:47 PM  

I'm sure P Nielsen Hayden, High Priest of the toad god Tsathoggua after all, meant it as a felicitation.

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 5:48 PM  

Yes cause Vox coming in 6th of 5 candidates demonstrates OUR side's vote rigging prowess

Well, now we know. Sorry Larry, they hate Vox more than you.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2014 5:49 PM  

Oblivious says:

Or, that you'll all be consistently near the bottom and at no point be anywhere close to winning. Except for Toni Weisskopf.

Except that they have proven that it is nothing but a popularity contest that was rigged by the rabbits this year.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 5:51 PM  

Except that they have proven that it is nothing but a popularity contest that was rigged by the rabbits this year.

That's just silly. The fact that a certain type of reader is much more likely to fork out the money for the membership, is not rigging. It's just the nature of the award.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 17, 2014 5:53 PM  

Why are you even bothering with these skin rashes? How can you even acknowledge them? They're sniveling little Randalls (Disney's Recess) or Wormtongues.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 5:53 PM  

I'd except Larry's final conclusion of the experiment to be that there was no evidence of foul play.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 5:57 PM  

Why are you even bothering with these skin rashes? How can you even acknowledge them?

Hey, Vox never ASKED to be nominated. But since he WAS nominated, then this was a source of quite long-term lulz with no cost, and almost no effort.

Blogger pyrrhus August 17, 2014 5:57 PM  

London is about as marxist as you can get in the western world...no surprises

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2014 5:58 PM  

That's just silly. The fact that a certain type of reader is much more likely to fork out the money for the membership, is not rigging. It's just the nature of the award.

You are right. I should have left it at: It's nothing but a popularity contest.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 17, 2014 6:01 PM  

I mean, aren't these "men" ashamed to prance and snark like teenaged girls?

Blogger Jon Bromfield August 17, 2014 6:05 PM  

By watching the attendees and goings-on at Loncon3, I see I haven't missed anything by not attending any cons since 1980.

Question: are there any cons (in the US) that members of the Ilk might actually enjoy?

Anonymous Knight August 17, 2014 6:15 PM  

I don't think it's silly to presume that extra votes were bought somewhere along the way to ensure certain wins.

That said, I don't particularly care. People can spend their money however they want, in my opinion. Overall though, I'm more than willing to accept that most of the voters really enjoyed Ancillary Justice.

Anonymous Doug Wardell August 17, 2014 6:19 PM  

Markku August 17, 2014 5:43 PM

I WOULD say that I think we should just vote with our wallets, and leave the rabbits to celebrate each other.

But then, someone might credibly say that I'm not in the best position to grandstand in this...


I agree, but I also think there's something to be said for holding up a mirror to the political nonsense and saying, "this is the work which actually deserved to win this year." Awards are what the left is using to claim value for their nonsense which they can't make any real money off of. It seems like we should be able to invalidate that tool somehow.

Anonymous Philalethes August 17, 2014 6:27 PM  

Well, as a former SF fan from the late Golden Age (mid-50s thru mid-60s, attended every Worldcon 1960–68 except London), I can only say: This situation is pathetic. I guess the comment quoted above summed it up: "the irony of vox fans touting story over message". The message is where it's at, to hell with story!

I didn't actually read much of the material up for vote, just a few of the novelettes 'cause I wanted to see what was competing with "Opera Vita Aeterna". That the latter – a well-done story by any honest measure, and one that I especially liked – lost out (decisively, even) to "No Award" only brings into stark relief what has happened to a field of "literature" that once showed real promise for both creativity and quality. Compare these bits of labored, "message"-burdened fluff with the real stories that were award Hugos in the years I was reading SF/F.

I hardly ever spend money on fiction – I figure the public library, supported by my tax dollars, can take care of my needs there – but I've actually gone ahead and bought A Throne of Bones, based on my enjoyment of the related works that have been offered for free download. (Thanks for making it available as an ebook, outside Amazon's walled garden.)

I WOULD say that I think we should just vote with our wallets, and leave the rabbits to celebrate each other.

Yes, just keep on publishing quality, er, stories and let the chips – and dollars, markkaa, bitcoins, etc. – fall where they may.

I'd except Larry's final conclusion of the experiment to be that there was no evidence of foul play.

No, no foul play. The Masses have never cared about quality. The SF/F world didn't used to be dominated by this mindless, infantile herd mentality, but now apparently it is.

(Btw, I'm browsing and posting on this thread using Pale Moon. I don't expect my non-use of Firefox to make any big difference, since I use Safari 90% of the time anyway, but it's nice to have a different alternative for when I need it. And I note that PM seems to be significantly faster than Safari, at least for the little I've done with it so far.)

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 6:34 PM  

"P Nielsen Hayden ‏@pnh 27m
Good luck to most of the Hugo nominees tonight! Except for one particular would-be fascist, to whom bad cess and embarrassing skin diseases. "

Its fascinating that the pink shirts feel comfortable insulting diseased people... who have conditions which they have no control over.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 6:36 PM  

No, no foul play.

But what I mean is, that was the stated purpose of the experiment. To see if the system reacts to Larry's little suggestions on what books might deserve a vote, in a way that implies more riggedness than what is inherent to it due to the kind of voters it tends to attract. I think he will conclude that there was no such evidence, and the system is indeed just the way it appears on the surface.

Anonymous wyattearth August 17, 2014 6:38 PM  

are there any cons (in the US) that members of the Ilk might actually enjoy?

Guncon?
Bourboncon?
ATFcon?

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 6:38 PM  

Neocon?

Anonymous Knight August 17, 2014 6:42 PM  

There are a handful of small cons in North Carolina that I enjoy.

Blogger tweell August 17, 2014 6:47 PM  

LibertyCon

Anonymous Rico August 17, 2014 6:48 PM  

Wow, John Scalzi is about the most contemptible cunt I have ever seen. I have never believed in violence except in self defense, and sadly I still do. But boy if Im not going to fuck with him in every way legally possible if I ever see him at a convention.

Anonymous B Lewis August 17, 2014 6:50 PM  

Jon Bromfield: forget SF conventions. No one attends them except the Grey People. Instead, go to anime conventions. The fans are mostly bright, fun, and there are lots of single girls, many wearing skin-tight and/or highly-revealing costumes*. Add to this the heavy drinking and (assuming you are of lax morals and are in with the right crowd) all-night kinky sex parties and you've got a winner.

Plus, anime is the "bluest" of Blue media by far. Political Correctness is not a Japanese strong point. (No country that could produce a hit like Strike Witches could be doctrinaire and stuffy as the soulless creatures who run US/UK SF&F).

There's no shortage of faggotry in anime (the fandom or the medium), but (aside from the American end of the biz) it's good-natured, non-political faggotry for the most part. As a 25-year veteran of the US anime industry, I urge you to attend an anime convention in your area ASAP.

* ALWAYS ask for legal ID before beginning any relationship with a girl at any anime convention.

Anonymous Salt August 17, 2014 7:01 PM  

"D Franklin ‏@Daniel_Libris 6m

2014 #HugoAwards: a giant FUCK YOU to the bigots of the Sad Puppy slate and their bigoted fuckwittery. Well done, voters!"

Suc wit! We're quaking in our boots.

Anonymous Turd Ferguson August 17, 2014 7:02 PM  

Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Tor editor, self-admitted racist, and confirmed anuraphile, is nothing but pure class:

Well, Vox, you get what you give.

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 7:11 PM  

These people are really going to be surprised. It was way, way closer than they think it should be. 5th place by 400 votes is a target.

It is entirely likely that that Loncon will be the high water marker for voters for 5-7 years. It was a huge convention. Wherever it is next (has it been decided?) will certainly end up with fewer attendees and fewer voters.

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 7:18 PM  

Vox, you get what you give.

You really haven't followed who started what, have you. Do you really think I ever paid any attention at all to either John Scalzi or NK Jemisin until they started attacking me? I didn't even know who either of them were.

Anonymous Turd Furgeson August 17, 2014 7:22 PM  

Vox, who started what is irrelvant, you've been an asshole ( AWCA if you like) since the beginning.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 7:26 PM  

"Vox, who started what is irrelvant, you've been an asshole ( AWCA if you like) since the beginning."

actually if you go back to the original dust up, which is still there for the viewing, you'll see Vox and Scalzi were actually on the same side of the argument. It was a discussion about professional organizations using politics as a litmus test for membership and Scalzi was very much against it.

but while Vox was civil to Scalzi... Scalzi continually insulted Vox... even while defending his right to say whatever it was he was saying.

Anonymous Rick Moen August 17, 2014 7:28 PM  

"Good show, everyone. I can honestly say that I have never had so much fun losing an award."

You have a real sense of style, sir. Bravo.

But you're missing a fun convention, I'll have you know.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 7:33 PM  

Vox, who started what is irrelvant, you've been an asshole ( AWCA if you like) since the beginning.

And the point is? A good example is Jemisin. She goes to a conference, and says that VD is not only bad, but so bad that the fact that some people agree with him is an existential problem to people like her. VD responds directly to that intimation.

JS has done a fine job exposing himself as extremely thin skinned. It is not shameful to want to be recognized, and to feel hurt when you aren't. It is also perfectly reasonable to say that a person is not entirely troubled by being an outcast. I think it shows tremendous character for VD to do what he does. There is little doubt in my mind that he could have go down a road of commerical success with his talents, like other mid-list or bestselling authors in that camp. But it's fairly obvious that JS probably shares VD's feelings on a number of matters, but cares too much for career to be true to his beliefs. A person who is so at ease and racially well-adjusted doesn't choose to raise his family in the whitest town of the whitest county of one of the whitest states in the country for no particular reason at all, after all. The very fact that JS and his many cohorts don't live in Detroit, Camden, or Compton demonstrates vividly all that we need to know.

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 7:39 PM  

Vox, who started what is irrelvant, you've been an asshole ( AWCA if you like) since the beginning.

You and I will simply have to disagree on the idea that the initiation is irrelevant. They could have avoided all of this simply by leaving me alone. They didn't. Their choice. Now they get to deal with it.

Anonymous Philalethes August 17, 2014 7:39 PM  

who started what is irrelvant

No, it's not. I certainly would not have handled the situation as VD has, but I don't argue with his way – it's his, and he doesn't seem to mind dealing with the consequences. I recognize that while I dislike fighting, some people enjoy it – takes all kinds – but in all the years I've been reading VD, I haven't seen him attack anybody who hadn't asked for it.

These people attacked him, having apparently decided that because he expresses views not shared by the unthinking herd, that puts him beyond some pale, and thus the rules of "fairness" etc. that they claim to champion can be set aside. The hypocrisy of their behavior is glaring – in this and so many other areas – and it's clear that the kind of gentle handling somebody like me would give them will not get through to them at all. Apparently even VD's bluntness has not brought them to ask themselves if they make any sense at all either. But they've gotten what they deserve, no more, no less. Reality is what's real, not some idiotic dreamworld.

Anonymous Turd Ferguson August 17, 2014 7:41 PM  

She goes to a conference, and says that VD is not only bad, but so bad that the fact that some people agree with him is an existential problem to people like her.

And why she thinks he's bad has nothing at all to do with anything Vox has said or done in the past, right?

The rest of your comment, TL:DR

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 7:41 PM  

VD, correction, they don't have to deal with it since they don't even acknowledge you exist, remember?

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 7:43 PM  

T.F. - I see. Well, the type of person who can't read 125 words is not really someone to be concerned with when talking about authorship or literature.

The problem is not that Jemisin disagrees with VD, it's that she wants to other everyone who does not agree with her worldview, which places her own self at the center of all civilization.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2014 7:46 PM  

Well that sucks. I guess we'll just have to try harder next year. That or establish a new set of awards that actually prioritizes outstanding work above all else.

Doug, you are missing the point entirely. Awards for quality are for the most part, a left wing invention. There is a reason why the retro hugo is a retro hugo! Back when science fiction was good, no one needed awards to tell them what was great.

Larry was just proving this point in a very hilarious way. This in no way sucks. It actually would have ruined the "awards are left-wing propaganda" thesis had any of the sad puppies won.

The only thing disappointing is that the dark horse No Award did not make a stronger showing.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 7:47 PM  

"And why she thinks he's bad has nothing at all to do with anything Vox has said or done in the past, right? "

Given that she was attacking Vox before he even knew who she was... I have to conclude that you're either ignorant... or you live in some bizarre space time distortion where effects happen before they are caused.

See... The Half Savage was attacking Vox literally years before he called her a Half-Savage.

Therefore you cannot blame her opinion on anything Vox did...because that opinion existed before he had done it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 17, 2014 7:48 PM  

I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE!!

I DO NOT WANT TO FUCKING LIVE!!!


How the fuck am I expected to live in a world where: If You Were a Dinosaur My Love COMES IN FUCKING SECOND?!?!?!!?!?

Does no one remember the haunting, stark beauty of her teaching her T-Rex lover * the scents of those men? Those gins soaked men who......wait...wait...Where the hell was he, that he got beat down by gin soaked men?

I mean beer soaked sure. Whiskey soaked not a problem in the least, easily done, almost required in fact. But gin soaked men?!

I can only think of two places where that is even possible.

Either her three toed boy toy got a can of whup ass opened up on him in a country club in the Hamptons, by a bunch Plymouth swilling Edward Herman types who answer to the call-signs like; Binky and Scooter.

Or he had had some seriously disappointed customers in a glory hole booth on Fire Island.

Okay, that just takes the romance right out the story so far as I'm concerned. Not to be hetro-phylumrd and cis-specied here. But I don't just don't swing that way. Fuck her, she deserved to lose!



(I am assuming it was a T-Rex and not some Hadrosaurida. Given Swirsky's weight problem an apatosaurus isn't out of the question here but her heart seemed to be set on one of the greater carnivores.)

Anonymous Terd Furgeson August 17, 2014 7:52 PM  

dh: Well, the type of person who can't read 125 words ...

Well, I guess the TL part was really accurate, but I could tell it was just going to be you gushing about Vox and whining about Scalzi as per ad nauseam, so...

Nate: See... The Half Savage was attacking Vox literally years before he called her a Half-Savage...

Do you think Vox has been an asshole in a vacuum for all these years?

Blogger Tommy Hass August 17, 2014 7:55 PM  

"Vox, who started what is irrelvant"

No, it really isn't.

Anonymous Philalethes August 17, 2014 7:57 PM  

The rest of your comment, TL:DR

How convenient that you can simply give yourself permission to ignore anything that you're unable to answer.

I truly have difficulty understanding how people like you can come here and provide such perfect examples of everything VD talks about, and somehow remain blissfully unaware of what you're doing. Unlike some, I don't despise you – I don't despise anyone, it's against my religion – but I'm sorry for you. I feel embarrassed on your behalf. Please get a clue and stop making such a fool of yourself. Give me a break.

Addendum to comment above: Don't poke a bear with a stick unless you're prepared to be savaged. That's just common sense – or it used to be common, anyway.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 7:58 PM  

"Do you think Vox has been an asshole in a vacuum for all these years?"

Perhaps you could provide some examples of him being an asshole... and explain why that should result in justifying The Half-Savage's position... that would be helpful.

Blogger Tommy Hass August 17, 2014 7:58 PM  

"And why she thinks he's bad has nothing at all to do with anything Vox has said or done in the past, right?"

Hey moron: stating that black people are uncivilzed scum (something he never even said btw) wouldn't really be that far of the mark as anyone who has ever lived among large numbers of them will testify.

Anonymous Turd August 17, 2014 8:04 PM  

Tommy Hass, there it is. Thanks!

Anonymous Philalethes August 17, 2014 8:04 PM  

who started what is irrelvant

You don't remember when you were a kid and some bully hit you for no reason and you fought back, and then the lazy "adults" in the neighborhood punished both of you for "fighting"? I sure do. I thought that sort of thing was "unfair" (in the true meaning of the word), and I still do. It certainly does matter "who started it", if you have any honest interest in real fairness.

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 8:15 PM  

Tommy Hass, there it is. Thanks!

Which we know almost all of SF/F authors agree with, since they go out of there way to avoid living in diverse areas. JS and Jemisin aren't exactly neighbors, you know.

The closest they come is visiting a convention in a high-rise hotel in Detroit, and then congratulating themselves for being diverse.

It's the same old privileged, middle and upper-middle class white people writing stories and giving themselves awards. The fact that they've now branched out to sometimes give the same awards to women is not revolutionary or surprising.

Anonymous T Ferg August 17, 2014 8:20 PM  

Dh; seriously, what is it with you and Scalzi? Not healthy, man...

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 8:31 PM  

Do you think Vox has been an asshole in a vacuum for all these years?

Look, I don't pretend to be a nice guy. I'm not. I'm not cute and cuddly. But here is the thing: if you know someone is an asshole who competes and fights as readily as breathes, how stupid do you have to be to decide, "Hey, now that's just the sort of person I want to attack! This is going to go really well for me!"

Anonymous Fregy August 17, 2014 8:33 PM  

It didn't really not work out for her...

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 8:34 PM  

It's the same old privileged, middle and upper-middle class white people writing stories and giving themselves awards.

And denying them to Indians, the racist bastards.

Anonymous Fergy August 17, 2014 8:34 PM  

Tough guy...

Anonymous Knight August 17, 2014 8:34 PM  

Turd Furgeson wrote: "Vox, who started what is irrelvant..."

Turd Furgeson also wrote: "Well, Vox, you get what you give."

Anonymous VD August 17, 2014 8:48 PM  

Tough guy...

That's what is amusing. You little dweebs always think words matter. As it happens, I am legitimately tough. I played nearly five minutes with my knee laid open to the bone one game, because I didn't even notice it until a teammate pointed it out, and I played in the next game with a bandage over the stitches. Another time, I won a ringfight after having my nose broken in the initial exchange.

But you think that by sarcastically saying "tough guy" that is somehow going to magically eliminate those experiences? You think by mocking and taunting I'm going to begin to question myself? It simply doesn't work like that.

Anonymous Turd August 17, 2014 8:56 PM  

Wow, that is sad that you would have to resort to an awesome sports story after having it pointed out that you had no negative effect on your Internet foes...

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 8:59 PM  

" You think by mocking and taunting I'm going to begin to question myself? It simply doesn't work like that."

People that need a Special Designated "safe space" at Cons want to question your toughness.

Beauty.

Anonymous Terd August 17, 2014 9:03 PM  

a sad puppy

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 9:14 PM  

"Wow, that is sad that you would have to resort to an awesome sports story after having it pointed out that you had no negative effect on your Internet foes..."

What is sad about siting two examples of real toughness?

Blogger Bogey August 17, 2014 9:16 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Bogey August 17, 2014 9:18 PM  

UPDATE 5: The pinkshirts are celebrating. James Worrad tweets: "Said it yourself, bitch: we're the guardians of the galaxy." #DiversityInSF #hugoawards" What galaxy is that, the gay angsty one?

The picture of Worrad peeing on the Tardis was pretty classy.

Julie Dillon and Sarah Webb were well deserving of the "Best artist" categories. And lo and behold Webb is actually an aspiring artist. A real "fan" artist, as opposed to a narcissistic pro seeking recognition.

Anonymous Harsh August 17, 2014 9:29 PM  

I mean, aren't these "men" ashamed to prance and snark like teenaged girls?

No, they are evidently not ashamed. Worrad revels in his prissiness. As does Damien "Government Subsidized" Walter. Scalzi's infatuation with his teen-aged daughter perfect sense in that light. She's everything he aspires to be.

Blogger rcocean August 17, 2014 9:36 PM  

Point made. The awards are based on politics and who likes who - not quality. Further, an incredibly small number of people decide them. Another blow to the Hugo awards credibility.

Anonymous Harsh August 17, 2014 9:37 PM  

Tough guy...

I for one would truly love to see you say that to Vox's face, fat boy.

Anonymous Tard Furgeson August 17, 2014 9:43 PM  

I can fit a zucchini up my bottom.

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 9:50 PM  

What is it with my interest in JS? I am interested to see how he works. The way to be successful is to act as though you are successful. JS has an admirable career path, and it's not unfeasible that he'll end up very famous, and very rich, and in the top niche of writers with routine best sellers topping the sales list.

I would like to someday be a successful author and so following cataloging very carefully his decisions and paths is very important to me. Unlike Larry or Vox, I am happy to produce whatever will sell. My personal politics or beliefs are entirely irrelevant to that equation.

Anonymous dh August 17, 2014 9:51 PM  

Nate, its just not a safe space. They need an extrajudicial process to get rid of people who somehow, mentally, bother them.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 9:58 PM  

'Nate, its just not a safe space. They need an extrajudicial process to get rid of people who somehow, mentally, bother them."

Quite right. You'd be bloody insane to go to a Con these days.

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 10:01 PM  

and I'm still waiting to hear why siting examples of actual physical toughness is sad.

Blogger James Dixon August 17, 2014 10:09 PM  

> after having it pointed out that you had no negative effect on your Internet foes...

If this sequence of events qualifies as "no negative effect", next time should be fascinating.

Blogger Markku August 17, 2014 10:10 PM  

Wow, that is sad

Wowjustwow, sosad.

Is there an actual, progressive playbook? I want it.

Blogger James Dixon August 17, 2014 10:11 PM  

> ...and I'm still waiting to hear why siting examples...

Citing, Nate, not siting. You're not asking them to put it in a location. :)

Anonymous Harsh August 17, 2014 10:14 PM  

I can fit a zucchini up my bottom.

The rabbits always turn to sexual perversion sooner or later. It's fascinating.

Anonymous Josh August 17, 2014 10:15 PM  

Is there an actual, progressive playbook? I want it.

GRAMSCI, FRANKFURT SCHOOL, ALINSKY RULES FOR RADICALS, JOURNOLIST...

Blogger Nate August 17, 2014 10:20 PM  

"You're not asking them to put it in a location. :)"

oh yeah... you're right. Also... Fuck you James.

Blogger James Dixon August 17, 2014 10:25 PM  

> Also... Fuck you James.

Glad to be of assistance, Nate. :)

Anonymous furg August 17, 2014 10:27 PM  

Marrku, it is but disqualify disqualify disqualify all you want

Anonymous gay SF proud August 17, 2014 11:22 PM  

LIKE BUSH CHENEY YOU FASCISTS ARE IN DUSTBIN OF HISTORY... GAY SF FOREVER

Anonymous Harsh August 17, 2014 11:33 PM  

LIKE BUSH CHENEY YOU FASCISTS ARE IN DUSTBIN OF HISTORY... GAY SF FOREVER

Ah, it's Tad. Hi, Tad!

Anonymous Kareem Abdul Jabar August 17, 2014 11:35 PM  


By focusing on just the racial aspect, the discussion becomes about whether Michael Brown’s death—or that of the other three unarmed black men who were killed by police in the U.S. within that month—is about discrimination or about police justification. Then we’ll argue about whether there isn’t just as much black-against-white racism in the U.S. as there is white-against-black. (Yes, there is. But, in general, white-against-black economically impacts the future of the black community. Black-against-white has almost no measurable social impact.)

Then we’ll start debating whether or not the police in America are themselves an endangered minority who are also discriminated against based on their color—blue. (Yes, they are. There are many factors to consider before condemning police, including political pressures, inadequate training, and arcane policies.) Then we’ll question whether blacks are more often shot because they more often commit crimes. (In fact, studies show that blacks are targeted more often in some cities, like New York City. It’s difficult to get a bigger national picture because studies are woefully inadequate. The Department of Justice study shows that in the U.S. between 2003 and 2009, among arrest-related deaths there’s very little difference among blacks, whites, or Latinos. However, the study doesn’t tell us how many were unarmed.)

This fist-shaking of everyone’s racial agenda distracts America from the larger issue that the targets of police overreaction are based less on skin color and more on an even worse Ebola-level affliction: being poor. Of course, to many in America, being a person of color is synonymous with being poor, and being poor is synonymous with being a criminal. Ironically, this misperception is true even among the poor.

And that’s how the status quo wants it.

The U.S. Census Report finds that 50 million Americans are poor. Fifty million voters is a powerful block if they ever organized in an effort to pursue their common economic goals. So, it’s crucial that those in the wealthiest One Percent keep the poor fractured by distracting them with emotional issues like immigration, abortion and gun control so they never stop to wonder how they got so screwed over for so long.

One way to keep these 50 million fractured is through disinformation. PunditFact’s recent scorecard on network news concluded that at Fox and Fox News Channel, 60 percent of claims are false. At NBC and MSNBC, 46 percent of claims were deemed false. That’s the “news,” folks! During the Ferguson riots, Fox News ran a black and white photo of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., with the bold caption: “Forgetting MLK’s Message/Protestors in Missouri Turn to Violence.” Did they run such a caption when either Presidents Bush invaded Iraq: “Forgetting Jesus Christ’s Message/U.S. Forgets to Turn Cheek and Kills Thousands”?

Anonymous Tad Furgeson August 17, 2014 11:48 PM  

I can fit a zucchini up my bottom.

The rabbits always turn to sexual perversion sooner or later. It's fascinating.


An amazingly huge zucchini, I tells ya.

Anonymous Harsh August 18, 2014 12:33 AM  

An amazingly huge zucchini, I tells ya.

It's none of my business if you want to revel in your mental illness.

Anonymous Lowly Lurker August 18, 2014 1:00 AM  

OT (but on the topic of pink shirts):

Five Guys Burgers and Fries

Blogger Doorstop August 18, 2014 2:41 AM  

Well, at least my #1 picks for "Best Graphic Story" (“Time” by Randall Munroe, the creator of of xkcd) and "Best Fan Artist" (Sarah Webb) won awards...same goes for "Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form" (Game of Thrones “The Rains of Castamere”) though in all fairness I didn't watch any of the other nominated TV episodes. And Vox will always be "Hugo Nominated"...if any pinkshirts claim otherwise, may water fall on them from nowhere as 6-foot tall T-Rex's eviscerate them.

Anonymous Porky August 18, 2014 10:25 AM  

People that need a Special Designated "safe space" at Cons want to question your toughness.

This is a thing?

Blogger tom August 18, 2014 2:16 PM  

You may be interested in Cory Doctorow getting his 2 words in at http://boingboing.net/2014/08/18/2014-hugo-awards.html Scalzi reflects on the disastrous attempt to increase the prominence of reactionary SF at the awards, which included an effort to secure an award for a dreadful story by an avowed racist.

Blogger James Dixon August 18, 2014 9:33 PM  

> Cory Doctorow getting his 2 words in...

Sigh, I would have thought better of Cory. Oh well, you learn a lot from these things.

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