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Friday, August 29, 2014

PZ admits he's wrong

And then promptly proceeds to dig the hole deeper. Based on his National Merit status, he's got to have the raw cognitive capacity to do better, but it's sometimes hard to believe because he so regularly renders himself functionally stupid. It's as if he's got some sort of religious derangement syndrome that handicaps his intellectual faculties. 

"The other day, I said that his book, The Irrational Atheist, was self-published. I was wrong. He actually bamboozled a publisher into taking it on."

As one might expect, PZ is characteristically gracious about admitting his error. TIA was originally headed for publication by Crown Forum when a bigger name, David Berlinski, proposed a similar book just as Crown was on the verge of sending me a contract to write it. The editor decided, reasonably enough, that one book on the topic would be sufficient for their needs and chose Berlinski over me. I gave Glenn at BenBella a call to see if he was interested and he snapped it up right away. No bamboozling was required. It seems strange to have to explain this, but most publishers are very happy to receive book proposals on interesting subjects from popular bloggers. I've had standing offers from publishers who are pretty much willing to publish whatever non-fiction I want to write for years.

One of the few remaining Pharyngulans is so desperate to try to DISQUALIFY me that he suggested I paid BenBella Books to have it published. Never mind the obvious fact that I had previously contributed to several BenBella anthologies. Or the 100+ reviews and the fact that after six years, the Kindle ranking for TIA is still respectable at  "#28 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Religion & Spirituality > Atheism" 

The Devil's Delusion, on the other hand is at  #42 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Religion & Spirituality > Atheism. But it has 237 reviews, so one has to conclude that Jed made a reasonable call in going with Berlinski. I suspect TIA might have done even better than TDD did with the benefit of Crown's marketing muscle behind it, but I can't criticize the decision, even in in retrospect. Remember, the call had to be made prior to either book actually being written.

"I said it was ridiculous for him to claim that he was cited in scientific publications, when what he was really doing was claiming that people who didn’t cite him at all were actually citing him. It’s bizarre, but he’s doubling down. He claims that Scott Atran was using his ‘data’ about the number of religious wars, which he had to have gotten from his book. I think we can safely lay this one to rest: Vox Day/Theodore Beale is not the source of any data or hypothesis published by Scott Atran in Nature."

Who said anything about Scott Atran in Nature? PZ brought up Atran, not me. Look, I don't read Nature. I don't follow Scott Atran. I don't hunt for references to my historical proof that religion doesn't cause war. People simply happen to send me news about things they think might be of interest to me on a regular basis. The only reference I ever noticed myself was the recent one in the New York Times. Anyhow, as was brought to my attention two years ago, I was the original source of the data Atran cited in a 2012 article called "God and the Ivory Tower".
Moreover, the chief complaint against religion -- that it is history's prime instigator of intergroup conflict -- does not withstand scrutiny. Religious issues motivate only a small minority of recorded wars. The Encyclopedia of Wars surveyed 1,763 violent conflicts across history; only 123 (7 percent) were religious"
- "God and the Ivory Tower", August 6, 2012
"He claims to have inspired other studies.... Strange. I am not autistic to any noticeable degree, and have never been diagnosed as such. That makes it odd to claim I am the inspiration for a “hypothesis”."

It's a little more noticeable than PZ thinks. Self-awareness is not his strong suit. From a 2007 post entitled The socially autistic atheist: "Based on Wired Magazine's observation that atheists tend to be quarrelsome, socially challenged men, to say nothing of the unpleasant personalities of leading public atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Michel Onfray, one could reasonably hypothesize that there is likely to be a strong correlation between Asperger's and atheism. It's by no means a scientific test, but it is interesting to note the coincidence that 59 of the virulent atheists over at Dr. PZ Myers place report an average score on the Asperger's Quotient test of 27.8. And this does not include the two individuals who actually have Asperger's but did not report any test results."

As PZ himself said: "I took the test and scored a 24, an “average math contest winner.” You need a 32 to suggest Asperger’s, and a 15 is the average. So there. I don’t have Asperger’s, I’m just cruel and insensitive."

Hence the term "socially autistic" rather than "autistic". The adjective modifies the noun. It's not surprising PZ's AQ score is higher than the norm on the autism spectrum because he is observably a "quarrelsome, socially challenged" man. I scored 14, by the way. Unlike PZ, I possess empathy, athletic experience, and social skills that help temper my high intelligence. I'm not as literal and pedantic as one might conclude from reading the blog, that is just an artifact of having had scores of people like PZ scouring my every written word looking for something, anything, to attack and use to DISQUALIFY for over a decade.

"Most importantly, there is no citation of Theodore Beale, or Vox Day, or The Irrational Atheist, or ‘that misogynistic asshole on the internet’. You’d think this would be rather obvious: you don’t get to count it as a citation if you aren’t cited."

I was curious when I saw a report of the study in the news, so I emailed one of the authors and asked her if her team had derived the hypothesis from TIA or from this blog. She emailed me back, confirmed that they had in fact gotten it from TIA, and asked if I would like to be cited. I thanked her and told her it wasn't necessary because I was merely curious if it was sheer coincidence or not. I'm not a scientist and I'm not at all concerned about petty scientistic credential games. I'm certainly not concerned with their little rules about who get to take credit and how. The facts are what they are. I deal in reality, not scientistry.

"And the final damning straw: the much vaunted paper by Hooker that claims a vaccination/autism link, that was promoted by Vox Day, has been retracted. He’s basically wrong about everything."

No. I have not been wrong about anything he's addressed here. I am smarter than PZ Myers and one reason he hates me is that I demonstrate this so easily every single time he pushes his godless corpulence up from the ground long enough to get slapped down again. The reason Dr. Hooker's paper was retracted was not because it was flawed, but because he obtained much more conclusive proof of his claim that the CDC was hiding apparent evidence of a specific vaccination/autism link.

On the very same day that PZ was erroneously claiming I was wrong about this "final damning straw", Dr. William Thompson, a senior scientist at the CDC, issued a statement through his lawyer proving that I was right to take Dr. Hooker's assertion about statistical fraud at the CDC seriously.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-AUGUST 27,2014

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM W. THOMPSON, Ph.D., REGARDING THE 2004 ARTICLE EXAMINING THE POSSIBILITY OF A RELATIONSHIP  BETWEEN  MMR VACCINE AND AUTISM
PZ Myers must be a remarkably dishonest man on the basis of his long-held, oft-expressed opinion that I am prone to dishonesty. One would think that after all these years of nipping at my ankles, he would have learned by now that while I do occasionally make mistakes, and I do occasionally take at face value reports that turn out to be false, I do not lie when I am writing on the blog. Not because I'm perfectly honest, but because I'm not perfectly stupid.

I also make a habit of doing the sort of look-before-you-leap research with which PZ never bothers. Which is why when he's saying one thing and I'm saying another, the very safe bet is on the latter.

Labels: ,

78 Comments:

Anonymous Toby Temple August 29, 2014 4:44 AM  

And PZ says..... "But... but.. um.. err.. oh fuck it!"

Is it really that hard for this old man to honestly admit his mistake?

Blogger Stefani Monaghan August 29, 2014 5:44 AM  

"Is it really that hard for this old man to admit his mistake?"

He scored 24 on the AQ. In other words, yes.

Anonymous Stilicho August 29, 2014 6:18 AM  

Yep. It's a common side effect of mid-wittery: such people are used to being right and have often never undertaken anything truly difficult and tend to think they are always right as well as being accustomed to being allowed to BS their way out of situations when they are caught out with overly complex obfuscation. Add in the social autism effect and you have a perfect storm of midwits running around like Ralphie Wiggum shouting "unpossible!" Whether there is a link between their behavior and adolescent booger consumption remains a topic of speculation.

Blogger Rantor August 29, 2014 6:19 AM  

As to being credited for your research on war, it seems to me that if TIA was the source, not mentioning it is plagiarism. I guess attributing it to the original source was considered sufficient. At least they offered and more importantly the truth got out.

Anonymous VD August 29, 2014 6:34 AM  

I guess attributing it to the original source was considered sufficient.

I have no doubt that they thought, erroneously, that the encyclopedia is the original source. I very much doubt that they read either TIA or Encyclopedia of Wars. I am 99 percent certain they just got it from Wikipedia. None of these people care enough about me one way or the other to bother.

Certain Wikipedia editors, on the other hand, are clearly determined to minimize literally everything I have ever done. I'm astonished that they haven't removed the reference to my Indian heritage yet. They kept trying to remove Psykosonik's Billboard chartings, which were right there on the Billboard site, so it's hardly surprising that they want to deny this.

Notice that it's not even in my Views; apparently my opinion of John Scalzi is more notable than a logical proof that observably settled a decades-old debate. But hey, that's Wikipedia. That's why I always double-check every thing I get from there.

Anonymous Saul Alinsky August 29, 2014 6:36 AM  

PZ beat down Ritz crackers. And Triscuits. He is an Alpha among wafers, crackers and other related processed food products. All felt his wrath of reason and science.

How can a man who assaults a cracker be considered socially austistic?

Blogger Hanns Strudle extra gooey August 29, 2014 7:14 AM  

I wonder if he's still feeling shsne and embarrassment from his lackluster performance on the Ray Comfort DVD, or is he still claiming clever edits?
Humans came from fish? Why does Hans need to take swimming lessons, PZ?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 29, 2014 7:26 AM  

What are PZ's thoughts on Islam? Does he believe the Koran is the literal word of allah? If he cannot answer them in an intellectual manner he is yet another fraud that crawled out of the leftist swamp of shit.

PZ should listen to his fellow lefties, the demographics are changing and to the atheists they had better pay attention to those footsteps behind them.

And what do muslims think of atheists like the clowns mentioned?

Anonymous DrTorch August 29, 2014 8:22 AM  

I think we can safely lay this one to rest That language alone, particularly w/ nothing of substance behind it, is a clear indication that he's lying and knows it. It's clear that only Aspie fan boys are reading that blog now, b/c no intelligent adult would find such prattle worth their time.

And b/c I'm such an interesting person, I have a similar "debate" going w/...wait for it...a biology teacher. Two years ago this person whined that their starting salary was below the market rate but they took the job for the benefits (which are now being taken away! WAH) I showed them that for 9 mos of work, they got the same pay as the market, plus their benefits.

Anyway, they brought it up again, and when I showed them the same numbers, they called me a liar for several reasons. Now it's just comical that each time they claim I'm lying, I post a link explicitly showing I've said nothing but truth.

Anonymous David of One August 29, 2014 8:26 AM  

Altogether interesting Vox ... PZ is very open about acknowledging you and your work. Although his acknowledgement is in the form denigration, he clearly demonstrates you've gotten his attention for sometime.

Maybe that debate between the two of you might still occur before he becomes too old and mentally feeble.

Blogger Glen Filthie August 29, 2014 8:28 AM  

"... but because he obtained much more conclusive proof of his claim that the CDC was hiding apparent evidence of a specific vaccination/autism link."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

One is tempted to wonder what other bastions of scientific medical devilry our crusading blogger will tear down next - armed as he is with a 150 IQ and a razor sharp wit! Dialysis? Blood transfusions? Organ transplants? The lumpen proles need your guidance to save themselves, Vox! Ohhhh those EVIL doctors, microbiologists and scientists!!!

LOL. I kinda think the days of inquisitions, burning witches and making Jews into scapegoats, soap, and lamp shades are over. If you hope to sell this hog wash to me (with my inferior 120~130 IQ) you are going to have to talk a little faster and polish a lot more turd....and even then it looks shakey for you.

Anonymous David of One August 29, 2014 8:31 AM  

Silly me ... I said "too old and mentally feeble" ... I should have said "before he dies" as certain thresholds have already been crossed.

Anonymous Freedmud August 29, 2014 8:40 AM  

All those words and not once did you even approach saying something meaningful. Just hooting and howling like an ape. That's kinda sad.

Anonymous Stilicho August 29, 2014 8:41 AM  

with my inferior 120~130 IQ

Yet you keep trying. That's commendable. It's not what you have, it's what you do with it that matters..

Anonymous Salt August 29, 2014 8:43 AM  

How can a man who assaults a cracker be considered socially austistic?

I believe it was a white cracker so PZ must feel socially justified.

Anonymous VD August 29, 2014 8:45 AM  

Maybe that debate between the two of you might still occur before he becomes too old and mentally feeble.

No, it won't happen. The whole "punching-down at crackpots" excuse was never anything more than cover for the fact that he knows I will crush him on any subject, even one in which he is legitimately an expert. I've spanked him every single time he's thought he had a case. There are genuinely people who think they're above debating popular bloggers, but the likes of PZ Myers and John Scalzi are not two of them. Gammas only debate people they are sure they can beat, they're too terrified of being exposed as failures to take on anyone who even has a chance of winning.

If you hope to sell this hog wash to me (with my inferior 120~130 IQ) you are going to have to talk a little faster and polish a lot more turd....and even then it looks shakey for you.

Only someone brutishly dumb enough to repeatedly type HAR HAR HAR would think that there is still anything to discuss. The CDC scientist openly admitted the very "hog wash" that you are still refusing to buy. I mean, why do you think he had his LAWYER release his statement, because he's so confident that he didn't do anything wrong?

The fact that you think anything looks "shakey" for me is an insult to your own intelligence. Stop being such a fucking midwit and learn to start actually using your above-average mind.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 August 29, 2014 9:05 AM  

just notes: worship God in spirit and in truth equals worship Truth in spirit and in truth.
Whether it's vaccines, climate change, gaytopia's social consequences, holocaust numbers, false flags, the neutering of mankind, [etc etc] there's one common thread - anti-Christ is an aversion to truth; whether it involves the inversion of facts, whether it's omissions or obfuscation, deletions or additions/ substitutions.

Dead ends. Always dead ends. Narcissism is "no room for God". A lot of different outfits but always the same tailor - from fig leaves to Lycra.

[ps. Jim Stone seems to be looking at practical advice to save your life when/ if Ebola comes to a town near you. I don't think the mainstream media will be covering it. ]

Anonymous Carlotta August 29, 2014 9:12 AM  

I wish your preference was to be cited. However, I think you simply enjoy toying with these fools.

Now that you are Native American, you should be overwhelmed with people wanting to cite you and hurling Raciss and White Privilege at PZ.

After all, he is just a fat white man trying to keep you down.

Anonymous Carlotta August 29, 2014 9:16 AM  

I wonder if he's still feeling shsne and embarrassment from his lackluster performance on the Ray Comfort DVD, or is he still claiming clever edits?




We saw this and were rolling with laughter. Seriously, his proof for evolution was "Uh, uh bacteria!"

I would love to see Vox travel the country doing ambush interviews with these guys. No warning, on camera. A more coherent version of stuttering John. We would have to disguise him though.....

Anonymous Freedmud August 29, 2014 9:17 AM  

I used to be a soft headed leftie, duly worshipping at each of the usual shibboleths. Including "of COURSE vaccines don't cause autism." I had never read up on the subject. I just assumed the answer and felt pride in it.

This is a sacred cow to the wannabe intelligentsia. The defense of this is likely going to be moe emotional than rational.

If there is one thing I want to figure out about human behavior it's how and why they pick these specific sacred cows to pour their energy and emotion in to. The consistency with which they do it and the fact that I can still "feel" the old soft headed ness trying to pull me to thoughtless positions on issues like these suggests to me there is some pattern to it all.

Or I'm still soft headed just of a different flavor.

Anonymous Carlotta August 29, 2014 9:19 AM  

[ps. Jim Stone seems to be looking at practical advice to save your life when/ if Ebola comes to a town near you. I don't think the mainstream media will be covering it. ]


Personally researching Artemisia and iron therapy which has been used against lung cancer and Malaria. Large doses of vitamin c ( pine needle tea) and benedryl for cytokine storms. Not a doctor. Just research.

Anonymous Salt August 29, 2014 9:20 AM  

how and why they pick these specific sacred cows to pour their energy and emotion in to

It's the inate need to worship.

Anonymous Flinders August 29, 2014 9:31 AM  

I scored 25 on that test and I thought I'd be higher.

On the vaccination stuff, you've mentioned before that there are certain vaccinations that you do recommend. The problem seems to be in particular with the US schedule. My daughter is currently getting vaccines (outside the US) but we had the option of spacing them out, which I chose to do. There also seems to be far less than that of the US schedules. I wish people would actually take a look at what you think rather then make blanket statements but I guess that is to be expected.

Blogger MidKnight August 29, 2014 9:32 AM  

Someone with a high AQ number (mine's pretty damn high) CAN learn to be much less of a pretentious ass than PZ is proving himself to be. But it requires leaving the academic cloister and spending significant time in the real world, with a merciless and impersonal mother nature, and people as smart or challenging where results matter, as in life-or-death matter, and teamwork is necessary.

It can be humbling - especially because book smarts tend to be as much an impediment, if not more, as a help. The way school systems and teachers reward behavior like PZ's doesn't help either.

Yeah, it can take a LOT longer to generate a working set of social rules, and still require an inordinate amount of time to figure out what people are feeling, but it can be done.

Blogger Glen Filthie August 29, 2014 9:56 AM  

"The CDC scientist openly admitted the very "hog wash" that you are still refusing to buy. I mean, why do you think he had his LAWYER release his statement, because he's so confident that he didn't do anything wrong?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

For this to be a crime there has to be a motive. The only one I can see is that this doctor feared (correctly) that the public would react to it negatively and start to panic - just as you are doing.

There are legions of otherwise intelligent men balking at immunization. They do that not knowing the first thing about statistics, microbiology, or vaccines. Do you even know what a vaccine is, Vox? Or how it works? Because I haven't seen ANY evidence so far that you do.

I asked you earlier to show me the stats, the methodology and the rest of your homework. You show me links to other self proclaimed experts and you put words into their mouths. Look man - do the work. If you are right I will eat that crow without salt. But I am not going to panic or start burning witches on your say-so.

Good grief, for a crime to be committed there has to be a motive. What did this guys stand to gain by suppressing the data? Jeez - could it be that he feared (correctly) that stupid people would get hold of it, panic, and stop immunizing themselves and their kids? That in doing so they would endanger themselves, their kids and each other?

The bastard!

HAR...er...NYUK NYUK NYUK!


Anonymous Will Best August 29, 2014 10:01 AM  

Pew had a survey out a few months back on Millennials, and it showed that Millennials were twice as likely to be Athiests (11%) as Gen X, Boomer, Silient (6,6,5).

If there is a correlation with Autism, that sort of puts a hole in the theory that Autism is just being diagnosised better.

Anonymous PZFan4Ever August 29, 2014 10:09 AM  

Do you guys know how much biology teachers make at a community college?

Huh?

$51,200 a year, plus benefits.

YOu guys are just jealous losers!!!!

Anonymous Zell August 29, 2014 10:10 AM  

Pew had a survey out a few months back on Millennials, and it showed that Millennials were twice as likely to be Athiests (11%) as Gen X, Boomer, Silient (6,6,5).

That's not 'atheists'. That's 'don't believe in God', which isn't the subset Vox zeroes in on. He categorizes mere irreligious and agnostics differently.

Anonymous Northern Observer August 29, 2014 10:13 AM  

"Scott Atran and others are, in fact, citing me,"

Can 'cite' mean both the act of using a quote (or data) from someone else and the act of attributing the quote/data?

Or is he confusing the two different acts? (I'm that's the first time that phrase has been used in reference to him)

Anonymous Northern Observer August 29, 2014 10:15 AM  

i.e. you did say that they cited you. He probably thinks that means that they also attributed the citation.

Anonymous Porky August 29, 2014 10:22 AM  

'Epic bitchslap' does not begin to describe this.

And the timing of the mea culpa press release is just sublime.

How's PZ's book doing on Amazon btw?

Anonymous the bandit August 29, 2014 10:26 AM  

i.e. you did say that they cited you. He probably thinks that means that they also attributed the citation.

Ding ding ding!

It was a trap.

Anonymous Porky August 29, 2014 10:29 AM  

What did this guys stand to gain by suppressing the data?

Probably keeping his job, for one.

Anonymous VD August 29, 2014 10:35 AM  

Can 'cite' mean both the act of using a quote (or data) from someone else and the act of attributing the quote/data?

Yes. PZ is using the word in the formal academic sense. Not being an academic, I was not.

1. to quote (a passage, book, author, etc.), especially as an authority: He cited the Constitution in his defense.
2. to mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example:

As per 2, Atran clearly cited the data I provided in TIA.

For this to be a crime there has to be a motive. The only one I can see is that this doctor feared (correctly) that the public would react to it negatively and start to panic - just as you are doing.

Retract your false claim, Filthie. I am not "starting to panic". I'm not even vaguely twitchy. Second, there is a crime whether you know the motive or not. That's why Dr. Thompson lawyered up before admitting what Dr. Hooker already had recorded.

I asked you earlier to show me the stats, the methodology and the rest of your homework. You show me links to other self proclaimed experts and you put words into their mouths. Look man - do the work.

No. Go do your own work. You have assumed a position without the scientific evidence you claim to require, you couldn't answer even the simplest science-related questions that others asked of you, and now you're demanding evidence to convince you to abandon a position you assumed sans evidence.

People like you are the reason I find midwits very, very difficult to tolerate. There is nothing to discuss. Case closed. The CDC is no longer a reliable source for anything anymore. As others have pointed out, it's like taking the BEA and BLS seriously. We know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that what they are saying is not true.

Anonymous Student in Blue August 29, 2014 10:47 AM  

There are legions of otherwise intelligent men balking at immunization. They do that not knowing the first thing about statistics, microbiology, or vaccines. Do you even know what a vaccine is, Vox? Or how it works? Because I haven't seen ANY evidence so far that you do.

Why do people keep doing this? Why!?

The moment anything hokey about one vaccine gets brought up, legions of people swarm to assume that it means that all vaccines and everything about them are incorrect, so therefore that one thing hokey about the one vaccine must be incorrect.

The topic that was brought up a couple of days ago is not immunization vs. anti-immunization. The topic is whether or not pushing for super, stupidly, early MMR vaccinations increased autism in black boys. The topic is the timing of those vaccinations and, based on how the CDC fudged with the data, how can you trust their timing of vaccination for anything else if that one was corrupt?

Good grief, for a crime to be committed there has to be a motive. What did this guys stand to gain by suppressing the data? Jeez - could it be that he feared (correctly) that stupid people would get hold of it, panic, and stop immunizing themselves and their kids? That in doing so they would endanger themselves, their kids and each other?

So if there's no motive, there's no crime? Involuntary manslaughter is not a crime anymore? Lying for a nice feelgood reason really isn't lying?

That's like saying committing a sin in the name of God isn't a sin.

Regardless of whether or not he had a Nice Good Reason for leaving out data intentionally that skewed his results - that's still dishonest and undermines science as a whole. That type of good intention sets back everyone by years.

Oh, and:

But I am not going to panic or start burning witches on your say-so.

Who the hell said we should do this?

Anonymous DrTorch August 29, 2014 10:54 AM  

For this to be a crime there has to be a motive

You should stop right now before you dig a deeper hole. But you won't, b/c that's what fools do.

Anonymous Caedryn August 29, 2014 11:01 AM  

Is the MMR vaccine actually required by day cares, preschools, or grade schools now? I am 27 and I wasn't required to get the MMR Vaccine till I moved into the dorms in college. Or is it just that it is so strongly pushed now that it is assumed to be required?

Anonymous DNW August 29, 2014 11:04 AM  

" I'm not as literal and pedantic as one might conclude from reading the blog, that is just an artifact of having had scores of people like PZ scouring my every written word looking for something, anything, to attack and use to DISQUALIFY for over a decade."


LOL

Yeah, defensive or anticipatory writing is, unfortunately, a must for someone in your position. Even a slight imprecision or off-handed method of expression will be seized upon. Not that they apply the same standard to themselves. The nihilist left generally grants itself an indulgence when it comes to being caught out in some blunder or falsehood. Sort of like Democrat politician philanderers.

Since the very concept of the "truth" is their enemy, and power accessed by any means, their only real value, they are inhibited neither by feelings of shame nor the restrictions imposed by a sense of honor.

Annoying little devils ... And one is entitled to take that more or less literally.

Anonymous Student in Blue August 29, 2014 11:06 AM  

Is the MMR vaccine actually required by day cares, preschools, or grade schools now? (...) Or is it just that it is so strongly pushed now that it is assumed to be required?
"MMR is one of the recommended childhood vaccines. Nearly all states require proof that a child has received MMR before starting school."
-National Institute of Health

Now, that's how it works in theory, but how it works in practice I cannot say. It sounded like people were able to delay the schedule and get only the first dose of MMR a bit before sending their kids off to school though.

Anonymous Porky August 29, 2014 11:07 AM  

The Filthie Scientific Method:

1) Observation
2) Hypothesis
3) Experiment
4) Analysis
5) Hide any data that leads to "scary" results.

Anonymous Didas Kalos August 29, 2014 11:16 AM  

In the meanwhile, the god haters are blaming more violence on the God of the Bible.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/danger-religious-fundamentalists-just-muslisms.html

Blogger jimmy-jimbo August 29, 2014 11:20 AM  

I don't comment on your takedowns, but this is a first. Well done.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 29, 2014 11:39 AM  

@Frredmud
If you DO figure it oit, I for one would be seriously interested in it. I mean, spend time and even some money on it interested. I do not suffer from leftardie softness, but I score a 28 on the AQ and that kind of softheadedness in others, as you call it, causes me considerable distress. If I can understand its origin, its nature, or some aspect of it that allows me to better grasp it beyond the relatively simple conclusion that it's mostly driven by the fear of being wrong and having to evolve enough to take responsibility for themselves to a higher degree, it would help me not let it get to me as much.

OpenID everybodyhatesscott August 29, 2014 11:40 AM  

Pew had a survey out a few months back on Millennials, and it showed that Millennials were twice as likely to be Athiests

Part of that is probably age. I'm an Older millenial. At 20, I was a harcore atheist and a bit of a socially autistic asshole. At 30, I wouldn't say I'm a believer but if I ever have children I'll raise them as Christians. I'm still working on the socially autistic asshole.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 29, 2014 11:41 AM  

Apologies for typos. Phone keyboard and big fingers and little spare time.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 29, 2014 12:04 PM  

@MidKnight
Thank you. Your explanation here explains perfectly something that has partially hidden my own partial Aspergers from me until relatively recently as well as the other disparity I noted that give my score of 28 AQ I still did not have the behaviours of most Aspie-like people in social contexts, yet also had some definite similarities. I grew up mostly pretty wild In Africa and that would fit both with my personal experience as well as your cogent explantion of how an Aspie can still be a non-asshole even if he is smart and possibly learn the teamwork part better, as that is sometimes a problem for me. Very useful comment. I just can't relate/get pissed off with Aspies who can't admit being wrong when they are wrong. I honestly believe that if properly understood the milder form of Aspergers is actually an evolutionary plus for humans, but no one has really done rhe kind of work on this rhat it would require to prove it. Anyway, people like PZ offend my Aspie side. I don't want to be clumped into the same ass-bucket as him. We may score similarly on the AQ but fuck him, he is a demonstrable liar! And by the way, I know why. Aspies are BAD at processing BAD emotions, and no one feels good about being wrong, but in my head, honesty trumps pretty much anything, and I have gone from being in a heated argument directly to full apology when proven wrong (it doesn't happen often. But it does happen. Being wrong I mean, the apology happens every time I see I am wrong).
The reality is Aspies are VERY emotional, (I should say sensitive really, the emotions come when people try to make them swallow false realities OR in PZ's case, swallow their own bad emotion [you are wrong PZ!]) and that's ok with positive emotions, but can lead from psychological problems all the way to homicide (though suicide is the norm) for negative emotions.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 29, 2014 12:21 PM  

"Good grief, for a crime to be committed there has to be a motive. What did this guys stand to gain by suppressing the data? Jeez - could it be that he feared (correctly) that stupid people would get hold of it, panic, and stop immunizing themselves and their kids? That in doing so they would endanger themselves, their kids and each other?"

For a start: strawman argument. No one said a crime was commited, though personally I think it was and I accept your strawman at face value: a crime was most definitely committed and he should have an army of lawyers. Criminal negligence is something I feel strongly about, and it should be punished. Failing it being mere negligence/incompetence it is scientific fraud of the first order.

Secondly, *I* will decide what is safe for me and mine. Not you, not some ex-spurt and not any piece of paper said ex-spurts may have bought to decorate their walls. Their job is simple: do experiments and report results. Honestly. As well as report the methods used. Honestly. Their conclusions may be given but are really quite superflous for anyone that has the capacity to read and think for themselves. Lying to me "for my own good" is never going to go well. Not for my own good, and even less for thine!

Anonymous Student in Blue August 29, 2014 12:35 PM  

"If there is one thing I want to figure out about human behavior it's how and why they pick these specific sacred cows to pour their energy and emotion in to. The consistency with which they do it and the fact that I can still "feel" the old soft headed ness trying to pull me to thoughtless positions on issues like these suggests to me there is some pattern to it all." (Freedmud)

"If you DO figure it oit, I for one would be seriously interested in it. (...) I do not suffer from leftardie softness, but I score a 28 on the AQ and that kind of softheadedness in others, as you call it, causes me considerable distress. If I can understand its origin, its nature, or some aspect of it that allows me to better grasp it beyond the relatively simple conclusion that it's mostly driven by the fear of being wrong and having to evolve enough to take responsibility for themselves to a higher degree, it would help me not let it get to me as much." (Giuseppe)

Allow me to provide my hypothesis.

On the first side, Giuseppe, consider what you label as "softheadedness". It's basically the same thing as emotive thinking, as Freedmud essentially pointed out, "The defense of this is likely going to be [more] emotional than rational."

It is my working hypothesis that people will rationalize with emotive reasoning what they cannot explain with rational thought. This stems from the desire to keep a consistent worldview.

To use an example from red pill/Game, 'swallowing' the red pill is very unpleasant, and can be quite traumatic as the individual is forced to change the very basic blocks of how they understand the world. Logically, rationally, understanding that women are different than men is laughably simple. But it's quite different to 'understand' that difference and still operate on the concept that 'everyone is the same', than it is to operate on the concept that 'everyone is different'. There's probably a word for the cornerstone of a worldview, but I do not know it.

So it should be quite understandable that changing the cornerstone of a worldview is very upsetting for the individual. It normally takes a traumatic event for the red pill to truly take. Therefore, whenever something comes up that doesn't quite fit someone's worldview, instead of changing the cornerstone and everything that rests on it, the first reaction is emotional since logic does not follow.

It is a preservation of someone's entire method of comprehending reality. Is it any wonder it is a great relief when any sort of facts come out that support the initial emotional reaction?

"The reality is Aspies are VERY emotional, (I should say sensitive really, the emotions come when people try to make them swallow false realities (...)" (Giuseppe)

Based on my opinion and what I've figured out so far, I would basically say that Aspies (and people with other forms of autism) respond to information that conflict with their worldview with explosively emotive reasoning, as they demand precision of themselves and the world around them. The higher the AQ, the more the emotive reasoning because the more important the precision: the more important that everything has to be in-line with the worldview.

Anyway, I'm continuing to write about tracking down the sacred cow, but I believe this much should be useful for you Giuseppe.

Anonymous Student in Blue August 29, 2014 1:10 PM  

To continue, because I guess I like yammering on or something:


Now, so far I've basically expanded what Giuseppe has said already. But, in response to Freedmud, how can we figure out what these sacred cows are? We'd have to understand what their cornerstone is, so to speak. What their motivations are, what thing they believe in that everything else hangs off of.

Accurately gauging people's motivations is not something that can be done at first glance. Hell, we have a hard time understanding exactly what it is that drives ourselves, because self-deception is horrendously easy and common. Instead, we have to look at actions.

How did that red pill maxim go? 'Don't listen to what she's saying, look at what she's doing?' The same applies here. What do they react the most violently to? Isn't it often bad things happening to those who cannot take care of themselves (or implied), as well as any sort of hint of corruption in science? There are other things, but these two apply here and now, and I believe apply to a majority of those reacting negatively to this piece.

Let's examine both of these. For the second, any sort of wrongdoing in science is written off as a one-off, a bad apple as it were. This would be fine except it keeps happening, and any line of questioning into whether or not the whole thing's corrupted met with disdain. It makes sense, as science is their religion. They react to allegations of corruption the same way members of the Roman Catholic church reacted to allegations of corruption when scandals broke out. The ones who shouted down questioners of corruption with emotive reasoning basically treated the Church itself as their religion.

And for the first, treatment of those who cannot defend themself (even if that status exists only in the mind of the one defending). This, to me, is simply a reflection of themself as a person. If bad things are happening to those who cannot defend, then they are not much of a person if they themselves are not out defending. But really, it's not about 'the children', it ends up being all about the defender. Hence, abortion, irresponsible mothers, things that really aren't about "the children" but are still shibboleths, because they are 'Things That Need Defending, Therefore Look At Me'.

Any questions about vaccines, which bring up Science™ and Me, The Great Defender And Person, gets hit with a double-whammy of emotional reaction.

There are still questions, but I think that's for another time.

Blogger Glen Filthie August 29, 2014 1:16 PM  

"Secondly, *I* will decide what is safe for me and mine. Not you, not some ex-spurt and not any piece of paper said ex-spurts may have bought to decorate their walls. Their job is simple: do experiments and report results. Honestly. As well as report the methods used. Honestly. Their conclusions may be given but are really quite superflous for anyone that has the capacity to read and think for themselves. Lying to me "for my own good" is never going to go well. Not for my own good, and even less for thine!"
---------------------------------------------------------------

That's all fine and dandy until your stupid decisions threaten me and my well being. In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned. Just sayin[ - and it's nothing personal. Just be prepared for a fight and be prepared to lose.

In this specific instance, though...hey - go for it! Just don't expect me to feel sorry for you or your kids when they come down with easily prevented diseases. The queers were outraged when I refused to sob or wail for them when they came down with HIV/AIDS. I laughed at them and by God I will laugh at you too.

Hmmmm. Should idiot parents be able to deny immunization to their children? I know some religious twits have tried to ban medics from doing blood transfusions and surgeries that went against their religion in the past - and they lost, thankfully. Will this issue go the same way?


The idea here is to make an informed decision. All I am seeing so far is a bunch of intellectual poseurs huffing and puffing and calling each other names, intentionally distorting what the other has to say, and wasting my time. I have taken your views under advisement, Vox - and will wait for more information before deciding on the worthiness of your opinion. It's the best I can do under the circumstances.

Anonymous Stilicho August 29, 2014 1:19 PM  

That's all fine and dandy until your stupid decisions threaten me and my well being. In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned. Just sayin[ - and it's nothing personal. Just be prepared for a fight and be prepared to lose.

Why do you want to compromise the herd immunity in return for a little short term gain for yourself?

Anonymous Stickwick August 29, 2014 1:37 PM  

Glen Filthie: That's all fine and dandy until your stupid decisions threaten me and my well being.

You're incoherent. On what basis do you assume Giuseppe would make a "stupid decision" when he's indicated that he bases his decision-making on reliable experimentation and truthfully-reported results?

Anonymous Joel P. August 29, 2014 1:39 PM  

In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned. Just sayin[ - and it's nothing personal. Just be prepared for a fight and be prepared to lose.

Yeah, yeah. You neocons are always such badasses on the internet. Real easy to talk like a tough guy when you know there's no real-world danger of your own ass being put on the line.

Anonymous Joel P. August 29, 2014 1:43 PM  

What are you going to do anyway, Glen? Force people to vaccinate themselves and their children, "law be damned"? And how do you think you're going to do that? At gun point?

Anonymous The Lion August 29, 2014 1:53 PM  

Just don't expect me to feel sorry for you or your kids when they come down with easily prevented diseases. The queers were outraged when I refused to sob or wail for them when they came down with HIV/AIDS. I laughed at them and by God I will laugh at you too.

Does anyone actually care whether you feel sorry for them or not? I have my doubts that people are turning to you for sorrow.

As far as "neutralizing [our] threat potential", do you have a list of children who didn't get the MMR in your area so you can actively hunt them down?

Blogger Glen Filthie August 29, 2014 1:54 PM  

Well...having thunk upon it a bit Stilicho...there would still be a threat potential from stupid people dropping dead in numbers for refusing to vaccinate themselves. Their corpses would then become incubators for other lethal diseases. That is the hell of pandemics - it isn't just the primary disease you have to worry about; it's the other diseases and vectors that come into play when people start dying in numbers and the herd's integrity is compromised.

Are you a mid-wit too? By golly - I LOVE that term. I could have been called a half wit or a nitwit - but somehow 'mid-wit' just sounds more insulting and humorous! It made my day! :)

But it's Friday, boys. The motorcycle and the autumn beckon. It's been a pleasure fighting with you - have yourselves a great weekend.

Anonymous Just On GP August 29, 2014 1:56 PM  

Glen - If you and your kids are vaccinated with vaccines you assert work, why would you and yours ever be at risk?

Serious question.

Anonymous Stilicho August 29, 2014 2:02 PM  

Are you a mid-wit too? By golly - I LOVE that term. I could have been called a half wit or a nitwit - but somehow 'mid-wit' just sounds more insulting and humorous! It made my day! :)

He keeps tryin'...bless his heart...

Anonymous GreyS August 29, 2014 2:05 PM  

Just don't expect me to feel sorry for you or your kids when they come down with easily prevented diseases.

Like autism?

Blogger James Dixon August 29, 2014 2:06 PM  

> He scored 24 on the AQ. In other words, yes.

I think that's right around the range I score, and I routinely have to admit I'm wrong here.
Vox admits he's wrong on a semi-regular basis.
Even Nate's been known to admit to a mistake a time or two.
AQ has little to do with it.

> Do you even know what a vaccine is, Vox? Or how it works? Because I haven't seen ANY evidence so far that you do.

By prompting the creation of the antibodies which fight off the real virus. This isn't your old high school, Glen.

> Good grief, for a crime to be committed there has to be a motive.

Nope. Harm done is harm done, whether there is intent or not. It's just that under common law, intent makes both the crime and punishment worse.

> In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned.

You're welcome to try, Glen.

Anonymous Student in Blue August 29, 2014 2:10 PM  

Dance, dance Mister Filthie. Dance away from all those questions.

That's all fine and dandy until your stupid decisions threaten me and my well being. In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned.

But how do you know if those decisions are actually threatening you and your well being if the data is false?

You don't. It's nothing more than blind faith if accountability is not held. And accountability means that when someone fudges data, there are consequences.

In this specific instance, though...hey - go for it! Just don't expect me to feel sorry for you or your kids when they come down with easily prevented diseases.

Are you stupid? How can you even claim to be a midwit if you automatically label anyone who disagrees with you as "anti-immunization"? Do you lack the mental brainpower to even comprehend that there might be more than two positions on a subject?

Even if you claim not to be dumb, you're still claiming that there are only two sides to this debate, despite evidence to the contrary, because you only address two sides.

The idea here is to make an informed decision.

And you cannot make an informed decision if the data is fudged!

All I am seeing so far is a bunch of intellectual poseurs huffing and puffing and calling each other names, intentionally distorting what the other has to say, and wasting my time. I have taken your views under advisement, Vox - and will wait for more information before deciding on the worthiness of your opinion. It's the best I can do under the circumstances.

Oh cut the bullshit. You avoid the subject harder than a cheating woman. You project harder too. You avoid the questions, throw out the insults first, reframe the topic and try to maintain airs of superiority while oh-so-bravely lancing all those imaginary "idiot parents" who "deny immunization to their children".

All in all, you're a disgusting human being. If only you were half as brave as the persona you like to effect, maybe then you wouldn't dodge questions.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 29, 2014 2:56 PM  

Glen Filthie August 29, 2014 9:56 AM
Good grief, for a crime to be committed there has to be a motive.



you are SUCH a damn fool.

have you never heard the expression "ignorance is not a defense against the law"?

IF you are unaware that a specific act is "illegal" how
THEN can you have 'intent' to break that law?

the dictum
1 - Means
2 - Motive ( intent )
3 - Opportunity

is shorthand created by prosecutors so they know what their goals are when going to trial. nothing more. it's certainly not a "legal requirement" for convincing a jury or judge that x committed y.




Student in Blue August 29, 2014 12:35 PM
This stems from the desire to keep a consistent worldview.



i'm sorry but i'm going to have to vehemently disagree.

one only has to look at the masses of people who make all kinds of exemptions for the behavior of those on their side while demanding the heads of anyone on an opposing 'team' for minor infractions.

this principle can be observed from Pee Wee Football all the way up to national elections and international negotiations.

this is NOT accidental.

this is seeking unearned advantage. and most times is willful and intentional.

and at it's heart, it is flagrantly INCONSISTENT.



Glen Filthie August 29, 2014 1:16 PM
In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned.



hey, Glen?

the Amish don't do the immunization thing.

i expect to hear news reports of you rampaging through Lancaster PA any day now sticking needles in every black hat you see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Health
"Overall cancer rates in the Amish population are 60 percent of the age-adjusted rate for Ohio and 56 percent of the national rate."



Just On GP August 29, 2014 1:56 PM
Serious question.



he's a blathering fucking retard.

Serious answer.

Anonymous Just On GP August 29, 2014 2:59 PM  

he's a blathering fucking retard.

Serious answer.


Well...
yeah.

If you want to look at it that way...

Anonymous MendoScot August 29, 2014 3:04 PM  

These twits never admit that they are wrong.

Even SH, after conceding the religion/war argument, went to calling it tribalism and, after a while, religion again.

Truth means nothing to them.

Anonymous Student in Blue August 29, 2014 3:04 PM  

and at it's heart, it is flagrantly INCONSISTENT.

That's why I said it was a desire to have a consistent worldview. When unfortunate facts pop up, emotive reasoning rationalize and paper over any of those mean ol' inconsistencies of real life.

this is NOT accidental.

this is seeking unearned advantage. and most times is willful and intentional.


Indeed, it is not accidental. But neither is it fully conscious.

By that, I mean that yes there are and will be people who, in full knowledge of their actions, lie and seek unearned advantage. But there are more people who, reacting blindly and from emotions, yet not accidentally, try to paper over inconvenient facts without consciously admitting to themselves that they lied.

Blogger Outlaw X August 29, 2014 4:01 PM  

That's all fine and dandy until your stupid decisions threaten me and my well being. In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned. Just sayin[ - and it's nothing personal. Just be prepared for a fight and be prepared to lose.

Do you realize what you just said?

Glen: "Did you get your Sars Vaccination?"
Outlaw" No, Don't trust the lying bastards"
Glen "you are a threat to me and my family now go get one or I am going to kill you."
Outlaw: "No."
Glen *puls gun and shoots Outlaw because he so fast Outlaw will lose*
Glen *walks into an Amish community with his 50 BMG*

Anonymous VD August 29, 2014 5:05 PM  

That's all fine and dandy until your stupid decisions threaten me and my well being. In that case you WILL toe the line and do what's best for the community or I will neutralize your threat potential and the law be damned. Just sayin[ - and it's nothing personal. Just be prepared for a fight and be prepared to lose.

Just the sort of Internet Tuff Guy pose an idiot who repeatedly types HAR HAR HAR would be expected to say. He's full of hot air and couldn't even answer the most basic questions about the vaccine science to which he appealed.

I'm beginning to suspect he exaggerated his IQ.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 29, 2014 5:29 PM  

Student in Blue August 29, 2014 3:04 PM
But there are more people who, reacting blindly and from emotions, yet not accidentally, try to paper over inconvenient facts without consciously admitting to themselves that they lied.



but that's the heart of our disagreement.

you characterize this as "trying to maintain consistency in worldview".

i characterize this as "trying to maintain advantage which they know they don't deserve".

whether this is 'fully willful' or 'reflexive' or habit or something else is almost beside the point. it's people of low character behaving as you would expect.

the World Cup cannibalism episode is a perfect case in point.

the other Uruguayan players were accusing the Italian player of being 'dishonorable' for daring to talk publicly about being bitten while on the pitch.

they were attempting to:
1 - mitigate the flagrancy of the foul their team mate had committed
2 - intimidate the opposing player

would you care to guess what the attitude of the Uruguayan players would have been had the roles been reversed? do you seriously doubt that they would have been screaming for the Italian to be summarily ejected from the tournament?

do you seriously think that they are 'unaware' that they are trying to game the refs and sport administrators?

Anonymous bob k. mando August 29, 2014 5:43 PM  

further advances in Cultural Marxism:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/386202/how-college-board-politicized-us-history-stanley-kurtz

Anonymous automatthew August 29, 2014 6:52 PM  

"He's full of hot air and couldn't even answer the most basic questions about the vaccine science to which he appealed."

Did he ever answer your direct question the last time?

Anonymous bob k. mando August 29, 2014 7:33 PM  

automatthew August 29, 2014 6:52 PM
Did he ever answer your direct question the last time?



i believe Glen's all purpose answer is, "Libertarians be stoopid, yo. Hur Hur Hur."

Anonymous muh holocaust August 29, 2014 8:00 PM  

"and making Jews into scapegoats, soap, and lamp shades are over"

LOL even the believers have given up the ludicrous soap and lampshade stories

Anonymous LL August 29, 2014 8:12 PM  

Just on GP boiled it down to the simplest question...if you and yours are vaccinated and you believe wholeheartedly in vaccination, then what is the danger to you and your family? Hell, if you think they are so awesome, and "safe," even newborns in your family can get the whole host of first shots in the hospital before they are discharged after birth.

I always hear how those who don't vaccinate (or use a delayed schedule) put others at risk. How, exactly? If you accept the idea that 1 or 2 day old infants should not be vaccinated with DTaP, MMR, Polio, Hep B, Varicella, and Gardisil, where DO you deliineate the line? Where the CDC says? What if you are a balck family? Would you prefer to wait for that MMR to be safer for your black child which has a greater statistical risk of autism and KNOW that you should maybe wait, or would you prefer to just go along with the ever changing standards/time frames because....

Yes, I framed my comment as an emotional appeal because in the end, only we parents love our children more than anything and we parents will be the ones to wipe drool off our kids chins when they are brain damaged or have to fight a 6'1" 200lb 18 yr old manchild with severe autism and WE should be the ones to determine the vaccination schedule and which ones for our own family. Period

Anonymous Rhys August 29, 2014 11:31 PM  

"For this to be a crime there has to be a motive. "

Motive only matters on cop shows. IRL there are two legs to a crime, the guilty mind and the physical act. It doesn't matter why someone commits a crime all that matters is that they had the intention and committed the act

Anonymous hungrytales August 30, 2014 6:39 AM  

@Glen Filthie: actually you'd have a hard time arguing organ transplants and blood transfusions aren't modern forms of cannibalism (i.e. using flesh of other human beings for your own benefit)

Anonymous Giuseppe August 30, 2014 10:11 AM  

@VD and others responding to Glen Filthie.

I think at this point it is self evident that Glen is either a Troll (he is aware of his avoidance, logical fallacies and outright BS and is just doing it to entertain himself as well as possibly lash out unconsciously to those that somehow threaten his own sense of self/masculinity/globalist world-view) or he is a zombie (he has no brains, awareness of reality or ability to do logic, and wants to eat yours (yes all of them, the brains, the awareness, the reality and the logic))

Ergo he is a waste of time. And for my money, quite probably oxygen too.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 30, 2014 10:29 AM  

@bob k. Mando and @ student in blue

Thanks both for your contributions to my comment on Aspie behaviour vs zombies (people who seem to act without any respect for rhyme or reason to us Aspies and thus, ultimately seem to us to deserve no better than to be disposed of as the unthinking (and only-wrongly-feeling) zombies they act as)

Studend in blue did not really say anything new or that shed any light on this issue for me, and Bob k. Mando expressed quite clearly the sense of outrage that is often felt by me when people wilfully ignore reality.
The problem is that the "advantage" these people seek to preserve seems to me to be rooted in the most primitive, short term benefit only, thus rooted in their monkey-like neurology, which is almost incapable of considering long-term consequences.
As such, and if that is the case, is dealing with these people practically the same as continually hoping and expecting a chimp to do advanced calculus or fly a plane?
That thought may well be true, but it disturbs me a great deal because if true, I am not sure what the answer is other than to try to avoid such people. Something distressing in its own right because of personal reasons probably OT and in any case not fit for inclusion here. But that I'd be happy to discuss around a table while having a drink with some of the ilk.

The main problem with accepting they are simply zombies though is that I have, thanks to a lifetime of martial arts, many years of empirical evidence that when faced with immediate and painful consequences these "functional retards" suddenly jump up in IQ by a good 50 points and can now apparently make cogent logic instantly be part of their abilities.
I may be struggling with the very idea that at heart humans are really this....petty, small, corrupt... Any continuation of this topic is welcome and if you want to PM me please do so.

Anonymous Giuseppe August 30, 2014 10:38 AM  

"I'm beginning to suspect he exaggerated his IQ."

Also...despite many thinking he is an arrogant and merciless cruelty artist, I take this as evidence of VD's humanity, compassion, Christian charity and humility.
Because as far as I am concerned, being only a deist, and thus ignorant of God's mysterious ways, for my money, Glen has already repeatedly proven he is a complete fucktard. The inability, or worse, wilful avoidance, of the most basic honesty and logic clearly show he cannot be intelligent by any method we care to pick for measuring.

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