The CDC hid the data
It's looking as if the vaccine conspiracy theorists were correct after all. Dr. Hooker's use of an incorrect method to tease out the data appears to have been irrelevant as it looks like he knew exactly what the CDC was hiding from the start thanks to his recorded conversations with Dr. Thompson of the CDC:
Dr. Thompson admits that "there have always been recognized risks for vaccination", but strongly implies that "the risks associated with receipt of those vaccines" has not been properly conveyed. Those who are upset with the damage this revelation will likely cause to vaccine rates have no one to blame but the pro-vaccine scientists; the idea that deceiving parents in order to get them to vaccinate their children was a viable long-term strategy is, to put it mildly, incorrect. Once trust is broken, it is gone; this calls into question far more than the safety of the MMR vaccine for male Africans.
Logic 1, Science 0. Or rather, "Science". Because, as I've been repeatedly pointing out, statistical analysis is not science.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM W. THOMPSON, Ph.D., REGARDING THE 2004 ARTICLE EXAMINING THE POSSIBILITY OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MMR VACCINE AND AUTISMThat's an open admission, from a senior scientist, that the CDC actively engages in statistical fraud and therefore cannot be trusted with regards to ANYTHING it says related to vaccines. This doesn't mean that all vaccines are necessarily useless or do more harm than good, but it does prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that any arguments that rely upon CDC data have to be junked.
My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998.
I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.
I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.
My concern has been the decision to omit relevant findings in a particular study for a particular sub group for a particular vaccine. There have always been recognized risks for vaccination and I believe it is the responsibility of the CDC to properly convey the risks associated with receipt of those vaccines.
I have had many discussions with Dr. Brian Hooker over the last 10 months regarding studies the CDC has carried out regarding vaccines and neurodevelopmental outcomes including autism spectrum disorders. I share his belief that CDC decision-making and analyses should be transparent. I was not, however, aware that he was recording any of our conversations, nor was I given any choice regarding whether my name would be made public or my voice would be put on the Internet.
Dr. Thompson admits that "there have always been recognized risks for vaccination", but strongly implies that "the risks associated with receipt of those vaccines" has not been properly conveyed. Those who are upset with the damage this revelation will likely cause to vaccine rates have no one to blame but the pro-vaccine scientists; the idea that deceiving parents in order to get them to vaccinate their children was a viable long-term strategy is, to put it mildly, incorrect. Once trust is broken, it is gone; this calls into question far more than the safety of the MMR vaccine for male Africans.
Logic 1, Science 0. Or rather, "Science". Because, as I've been repeatedly pointing out, statistical analysis is not science.
Labels: conspiracy, science, vaccines
104 Comments:
"Related to vaccines??" Being awfully generous, aren't you?
This is the same organization that has launched a significant amount of anti-gun propaganda and outright fraudulent "studies" designed to convince people they're safer being unarmed. All lies, of course.
There's no reason to trust the CDC any more than the IRS, DOJ, or Pentagon.
And yet, he still goes on to inform us that he's certain that the individual costs are worth the greater good, and we should trust him cause he just won an award!
Ass-saving. Gratifying one one level I suppose, but the important thing to take away is that these people don't change, they're just sorry they got caught. Clean house, show the old guard no quarter.
another case of "hide the decline" ... for the bestest of motives, naturally.
I found Thompson's letter to the head of the CDC particularly damning. He knew that the results would harm the "all or nothing" marketing approach taken by the CDC vis a vis vaccines and wrote the letter to his boss so she could mitigate the damage. Instead, she apparently chose to suppress the results and tamper with the data.
outweighed by their individual and societal benefits
I'm sure individuals negatively affected will take great comfort in the benefit of their now condition to society.
What bothers me is that there is so little risk of most diseases with vaccines available that it makes sense, in most cases, to delay the US vaccination schedule by a year or two and reduce the number of simultaneous vaccinations.
how dare you deny the science? you Luddites!
actually, having looked at the vids for the EU theory of comets ... i have to say ... i don't know that EU is correct.
but it's blatantly obvious that the dominant 'slushball comet' theory is ludicrous simply from a materials engineering perspective.
i'm starting to think that TexArcane has a point when he keeps repeating that "manboons are not a learning animal".
Why was the data fiddled with? Does it have to do with the fact that it showed a disproportionate impact on black males?
SCIENCE, I WILL AVENGE YOU!
Hypothesis: The incidence of scientific misconduct rises in direct correlation to the amount of grant money available.
Exactly, from the start Hooker and Wakefield were saying that a CDC researcher was admitting that the CDC committed fraud by removing children from data so as to hide a possible statistical correlation between vaccines and autism.
And all we got from Myers and Gorski and others including a science fiction author was...blah, blah, Hooker is bad...blah, blah, Wakefield is bad...blah blah. And how does any of that change the existence of a CDC researcher admitting...against his own interest mind you...that he and others committed fraud?
I am sure we will hear from the CDC and Gorski about how this all can't possibly mean anything because William Thompson...well, I am sure they will come up with a way to drag his name through the mud. The CIA once suggested Edward Snowden was bad because he took a picture of his butt.
HHS has awarded families money in the past for autism caused by vaccination. In the USA, you cannot sue vaccine manufacturers or doctors for the nasty side-effects of vaccines. Instead, you have a taxpayer-funded court system run by HHS who settles on behalf of the big corporations who make vaccines.
So vaccine manufacturers have little incentive to manufacture safe vaccines or ensure that their product does not cause significant harm. Couple that with widespread corporate-government nepotism, and you shouldn't be surprised with stories like this.
Disqualify!
Vaccine science is in disarray.
Fraud, misconduct, and corruption.
There's only one thing left to do now....
SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!
It's an interesting admission, and I'm very glad to see it get some sunlight, but I do feel that it's a good time to examine the political and institutional role played in this decision, rather than get into speculation on the impact this will have on the data treatment... at least, until the data can be re-treated statistically with a more detailed discussion of materials and methods.
"Statistically significant" does not mean what most think it means. At the core, as many here know, it simply means that there's relatedness between data AS MEASURED BY YOUR CHOICE IN TEST... which is why the choice in statistical battery is biased in favor of desired outcome. This is exactly why double-blind testing is so valuable, and so hated, and also so misleading, as conformation bias is still extant at the analytical end.
Still, relatedness does not imply a relationship, except that between the statistics and the data. I'm happy to see the comments thus far reflective of the wider implications of this, and not the usual lowbrow exclamations from the anti-vax crowd. Regardless of the details, this can have a great positive impact on the rigorousness of future studies.
He also argues against a straw man. Nobody says vaccines should never be given. The question always has been when should they be given? A vaccine injected into a 3-year-old may have a larger effect than a 5-year-old: what if we delayed vaccination until kindergarden, would that still protect the public? Nobody knows because nobody is willing to do an actual scientific experiment with different test groups. Might as well rely on goat entrails.
@DavidK
A butt picture?
This changes everything.
There's not one reason to believe this doctor. Not a single one. You can find anecdotes about anything. The facts still show vaccines are safe.
Vaccines are for the ill-informed coward.
As a kid, I was shot up with everything from Salk Intramuscular to TB to Diptheria vax. No autism so far at age 49.
Which proves nothing, but my kids get vaccinated anyway.
Semi-off topic, but sort of on topic....
I signed up for a 9 week (free course) at EdX that teaches Statistics and R at the same time. The datasets they will be using are "health science"
The course description is
here
Vaccines be safe becuz I had all them and I be gr8.
Quelle suprise.
Because there is no financial incentive to find out which kids are at elevated risk of negative outcomes from vaccination, thanks to taxpayer-funded settlement money, no one will do the research. If we could accurately predict how a child would tolerate a given vaccine, they'd be much safer, and thus more useful.
Heck, if we focused in on making our vaccines the best they could possibly be instead of pushing parents to vaccinate for VZV at 18 months (which is utterly ridiculous), this would be much less controversial. Instead, people are rightly losing trust in the medical profession, which has placed ideology and paternalism above the welfare and sacred trust of its patients.
"Yes, I will have two of those Chinese vaccines and one of the Filipino vaccines... no I do not mind that they were cooked in the same vats as the rabies and parvo batches..."
Which proves nothing, but my kids get vaccinated anyway.
So did mine, but on my (and my rather oovy-groovy doctor's) schedule, not the CDC's.
Perhaps I was just a bit jaundiced about the whole thing because I was strongly, strongly, pressured on multiple occasions to give my newborn infant the Hep B vaccine while I was still in the hospital recovering from childbirth. Only to have the recommendation be withdrawn six months later due to problems with the vaccine (excessive mercury, I think? It was a long time ago.)
I find the conflation of "the vaccine schedule seems excessive" with "hur, dur, the Neanderthals are saying vaccines don't work! Sky wizard! Bronze-age religion!" to be disingenuous at best and exceedingly distasteful in any event. (Perhaps I am unusually un-rabbitty for a female, but trying to stampede me just makes me more stubbornly contrarian.)
'Eff 'em all. My kid, my choice. *extends middle fingers*
SkinDeep wrote:
There's not one reason to believe this doctor. Not a single one. You can find anecdotes about anything. The facts still show vaccines are safe.
Since there has never been a true scientific study of the effects of MMR vaccines, there are no fact, merely suppositions based on anecdotal evidence. You should get your "facts" straight.
swiftfoxmark2 wrote:
Instead, you have a taxpayer-funded court system run by HHS who settles on behalf of the big corporations who make vaccines.
Does the US Constitution permit the Executive Branch to have a court system apart from the Judicial Branch now? I must have missed that amendment. Is it really a court, or is it an administrative procedure? Is it documented in the CFR?
I know that the IRS has a "tax court" which is really not a court at all, but an administrative procedure with the trappings of court. If you are not satisfied with the results of "tax court", you can still get a real trial, although they discourage you with threats and lies.
And I bet many of you have your pets vaccinated every year too. What a joke. Only a fool would believe you need an annual rabies vaccination. One a lifetime is good. Two in a lifetime is a sure thing.
The sheeple stand for nothing.
Take the HPV vaccine and then turn up sterile... hmmmmmm... or miscarry every baby from tat point forward.
And the true believers all say "there is no relationship between the two". There is no hope I am afraid. Too many of you believe when they urinate on you it is really raining.
"My colleagues and supervisors at the CDC have been entirely professional since this matter became public. In fact, I received a performance-based award after this story came out. "
Makes me wonder how Dr. Thompson defines "professional".
@skindeep: You can find facts on anything as well.
Evaluating the truth of those facts is the issue, and your fact-fu is weak.
@Shibes: You did not get the modern MMR vaccine. You got the one still produced in chicken eggs. This is not what your kids get. They get the one produced in human diploid cells (fetal stem cells from an aborted fetus in 1968), and contains protein fragments (blood albumen: dna fragments, cellular material, etc.) that easily pass the blood-brain barrier because, well, they are human proteins. Just like things called prions, which cause scrapie, BSE, and chronic wasting sickness.
So, yeah, yay MMR!
Citizen: "So tell me again why I have to take off my pants and let you do things to me when paying my taxes"
Bureaucrat: "It's the law so just do as you are told and shut your yap".
Citizen: "Yes sir"
A friend of mine who happens to be a doctor "might" have told me (possibly I dreamt this, I drink a lot) that they have race specific cancer inducing virus'(according to his brother who works at the CDC) and you would have to be an idiot to get a flu vaccine.
My Dr. friend has never gotten a flu vaccine by the way although he gives them when people insist. These men are both Hispanic by the way, that is if this really happened and I am not just joking around.
"What bothers me is that there is so little risk of most diseases with vaccines available that it makes sense, in most cases, to delay the US vaccination schedule by a year or two and reduce the number of simultaneous vaccinations."
How little is the risk from your new Guatemalan/Honduran/illegal neighbors?
So let me get this straight, the flu vaccine contains three strains of flu that were selected over two years ago on the basis they were predicted to be the predominant flu strain going around two years after they were chosen, even though by their own admission they rarely get it right.
"Yeah... go ahead and give it to me, even if it gives me Guilliam Barre Syndrome and paralyzes me from the neck down and I never fully recover or die. It is definitely worth it to insure I don't miss a couple of days of work".
Stupid sheeple!
Hey, I notice the free vaccines are available at CVS right now.
Start lining up ladies. Don't want to get sick now do we.
This comment has been removed by the author.
One of the things that continues to baffle me about instapundit and many on the right is how
TSA? evil
IRS? evil
EPA? evil
DHS? evil
Sec of Ed? evil
HUD? evil
NLRB? evil
SSA? wasteful
...
CDC? beyond reproach
How is it you can go through the entire alphabet soup and see systemic incompetence/corruption yet somehow SOMEHOW, find one agency that is without flaw.
I started looking up the controversy after the last thread. Interesting reading about another guy Thorsen here. Without knowing more, having the researcher indicted for misappropriating funds does not on it's face suggest that the studies he produced were tainted. But given the other revelations about suppressing data, they should be checked.
if the anti anti-vax people really want to see people getting shots they would argue for the public health benefit of getting B-12 shots. But there's no money in that.
http://www.naturalnews.com/046644_MMR_vaccine_autism_scientific_fraud.html
"As we reported back in 2011, Thorsen had previously worked for the CDC, overseeing millions of dollars' worth of grant money that we now know was used to prop up the myth that vaccines are safe. The CDC had long perpetuated this myth, so it was in the agency's best interests to quell public fears by generating a series of studies to this end.
Thorsen was later caught stealing money from the CDC and using it in his home country of Denmark to produce the infamous "Denmark Study," the holy grail that supposedly settled, once and for all, the vaccine-autism debate. Except it didn't. Thorsen was indicted by a federal grand jury in Atlanta, Georgia, on charges of wire fraud, money laundering and defrauding research institutions of grant money."
The vaccine apologists will keep their ears firmly closed to this information.
"That's an open admission, from a senior scientist, that the CDC actively engages in statistical fraud ..."
-------------------------------------------------------
Define 'statistically significant', Vox. That 'fraud' may well have been an honest mistake made with the best of intentions. Let us consider a similar situation.
Statistically speaking, the science fiction community contains an inordinate amount of fans and writers that are
- queers
- pedos
- plagiarists
- sexual predators
- misc. other sexually and mentally disturbed Marxists and turdies
Based on that information is it safe to say there is a link between preference for SF/F fiction and deviant or otherwise erratic minds?
I personally think that would be premature at this point. But 20 years from now? Who knows? Do we start diverting time, resources, and $$$$$ to investigate this? Want to make that decision and sign your name to it for all posterity...?
This man is speaking with 20/20 hindsight. He is NOT admitting that the vaccines cause autism - he is saying that there is statistical information that MAY indicate a link that was left out of the data. There is a huge difference between the two.
Until we know the mechanics of that link between autism and immunization we still have nothing to go on. Refusing to be immunized would be like you consenting to chemical castration because you are involved with the SF community. We really want to separate our science and statistics and understand the limitations of each.
Not that I care - I have long thought the human race could benefit from a program aimed at culling the stupid. If liberals and stupid people want to kill themselves with easily preventable diseases I am all for it! HAR HAR HAR!!!
This is how good propaganda works. The useful idiots are trained like monkeys to regurgitate terms about the opposition as tinfoil hat, Kooks, black helicopter crowd. Then thinking they are superior they make fun of the critical thinkers among themselves and laugh at them because it makes them feel like the cool or in-crowd. They do this 5 to 10 years then one day a bomb like this is dropped on them. Now they are confused, they can either admit they were wrong or move the bar in which moving the bar is the most favored of the two. So now in their little insecure pissant brains they can maintain their superiority. I have no use for that type, but for the former who can actually say I was wrong and ya'll were right I have hope for. If you are the bar mover not only are of no use to me but are dangerous to societies in general, deadly type dangerous.
My mother got Guilliam Barre from the swine flu vaccine. She was in the hospital over a year, paralyzed from the neck down. She died from colon cancer, which an inordinate amount of people who got the swine flu vaccine, then Guilliam Barre Syndrome, acquired. Just icing on the cake I guess.
A friend of the family's son came very close to dying last year when he got his flu vaccine. He went right from the doctors office to the hospital. It was touch and go but he pulled through after a couple of days of wondering if he would.
I could go on an on but I can't due to legal concerns. Needless to say I guess some consider the victims of the vaccine INDUSTRY $$$ the "tinfoil hat crowd".
Keep taking your vaccines and living in fear of the boogeyman. I guess you like being manipulated. Look around you at the near moron population that infests us. How do YOU explain it?
Update to prior post:
I should be thankful though. My mother didn't get the swine flu.
I stand corrected. My mistake.
Statistically speaking, the science fiction community contains an inordinate amount of fans and writers that are
- queers
- pedos
- plagiarists
- sexual predators
- misc. other sexually and mentally disturbed Marxists and turdies
- blood thirsty injuns?
My IQ was officially measured to be 130+ in 1971. It has declined over the years, of course.
On the other hand, I get better-looking each year. I've also lost a lot of weight. Vaccines to blame?
I promise that the minute my children are diagnosed with vaccine-related autism I will post the news here and humbly eat all the crow that is served to me.
There is a better way than vaccines, etc. Live a healthy life, eat right, have faith, believe on our Lord and Savior and die of old age having been healthy up to the last breath.
You don't have to have diabetes, fibromyalgia, heart disease, cancer, cysts, strokes, paralysis, etc..
Health is not found at the doctors office. Death and disease is found there but keep putting your faith in a man who is in a profession infested with the unhealthy and ill informed who only knows one thing, what chemical can I put in your body today.
You baby boomers are the worst by far. The church of medicine has replaced the Church of the Almighty God.
"There's not one reason to believe this doctor. Not a single one. You can find anecdotes about anything. The facts still show vaccines are safe."
Please tell me this is a parody of a pro-vaxer.
Facts and anecdotes are generally interchangeable. The methods you use to analyse these facts is non-trivial.
Vox's conclusion is entirely correct. We simply cannot trust the CDC on this issue (or perhaps any other). If you have non-circular evidence that vaccines are safe and effective then you are welcome to provide it. But no matter what, you cannot trust the CDC.
There's not one reason to believe this doctor. Not a single one. You can find anecdotes about anything. The facts still show vaccines are safe.
The facts are provided by the organization for which there is now expert eyewitness testimony concerning its suppression of statistical data. Which means they are not reliable.
You were already wrong about Hooker. Now you want to double-down and say Thompson is lying too?
"How is it you can go through the entire alphabet soup and see systemic incompetence/corruption yet somehow SOMEHOW, find one agency that is without flaw."
There is no God, only medicine, and doctors are His prophets.
Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.
Anybody that believes this should consider all those wounded or killed in the line of duty true heroes and insist that there be a national holiday recognizing their sacrifices for humanity.
If 1 vaccine is good and safe, then 5 vaccines must be "gooder and safer"... so 100 vaccines must be the "goodest and safest"...
Of course no one who can think critically would accept this... but too many of you have suspended critical thinking out of fear and faith in the "experts".
Thank goodness the vaccine manufacturers do their work for the goodwill of all men, not for profit.
Keep taking the shots you baby boomers. Hell, there aren't 10% of you who are healthy by age 60. I just go to the store and look at all of the dead eyed stares of baby boomers riding in automated shopping carts drooling and wetting on themselves, slurring their speech at the register. What's up with that?
Where is your spirit man?
The high priest of the church of medicine and free drugs is all anyone cares about now.
We are the sickest, fattest, most grotesque civilization ever in existence, and we have the "best" medical care available and utilized by the largest number of people in the history of humanity.
Go to the doctors office and see footless, legless, grotesque, obese, drooling zombies waiting to see their high priest to receive absolution out of the magic pill bottle.
Need I say more.
Republicans invented AIDS to murder gays and blacks
The high priest of the church of medicine and free drugs is all anyone cares about now.
We are the sickest, fattest, most grotesque civilization ever in existence, and we have the "best" medical care available and utilized by the largest number of people in the history of humanity.
Go to the doctors office and see footless, legless, grotesque, obese, drooling zombies waiting to see their high priest to receive absolution out of the magic pill bottle.
.......
I suggest you should pitch that on on indiegogo or gofundme as a video game theme. My bet is you get $$millions.
Glen Filthie: Define 'statistically significant', Vox. That 'fraud' may well have been an honest mistake made with the best of intentions. Let us consider a similar situation.
It doesn't sound like you read the statement, which is clearly a legally sufficient admission that material facts were omitted from the report. Peddle your stupid nonsense elsewhere.
And the people who take vaccines believe psyco-active pharmakeia is all they need to be "happy"... Let me just level out those brain chemicals with nothing but a crapshoot of brain altering chemicals and I will achieve nirvana so says the high priest of pharmakeia.
Lucifer, you are good at what you do best, deceive, I must admit. A whole generation has accepted this as their gospel, almost... one amputated limb, one bypass, one kidney, one homicide, one's sanity, one suicide at a time.
Simplytimothy, the modern trendy likes his video games fantastical.
Reality won't sell.
Tiny Tim:
Keep on talking. You're really selling me on your argument.
"Keep on talking. You're really selling me on your argument."
You are just seeing the beginning of the backlash.
I'm saying there's not a reason to pay them any attention other than you'd for some reason like to believe them. That's because you're prone to believing conspiracy theories.
What reason was there ever to doubt the efficacy and safety of vaccines? Wakefield? Proven fraud.
Increased autism diagnosis? The way autism is diagnosed has changed and expanded. It's just as likely the rates of autism in the US are the same as ever, only the diagnostic rates have increased. Which is a good thing, not bad.
And there's no logic behind the hypothesis. There's no autism-causing agent in vaccines. There's not enough mercury in the collective vaccinations of children to cause neurodegeneration in mice, much less humans.
What is proven? Vaccines save millions of lives. Herd immunity is compromised by vaccine-refusers, making themselves more prone, as well as the general public, to life-threatening diseases.
Vaccine's are safe. Vaccine's are effective.
There's as much of a correlation between increased hamburger consumption and autism, as vaccines and autism. And an equal amount of logic behind hamburgers being a causative agent of autism. Which is none.
I tried injecting hamburgers directly into my veins, but, I dunno, somehow it just isn't the same as eating them.
jeezus Tiny. we get it.
OT, former CIA spook talks about strategic options for the mideast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRnXxrELhag&t=93m40s
I'm saying there's not a reason to pay them any attention other than you'd for some reason like to believe them.
Wrong Skindeep. We are not like you. We don't choose who to believe based on what we would like to believe. We follow the facts, and let the chips fall where they may.
What reason was there ever to doubt the efficacy and safety of vaccines? Wakefield? Proven fraud.
Wrong, David Lewis, a research microbiologist, reviewed the work in 2012 and concluded there was no fraud.
SkinDeep-couldnt disagree more. I have seen many kids in various places ive lived including my own relative, have autism. When I was a kid, 1 in a 100 were autistic in 5 places I lived in the US between ages 3-16. For my kids, living in the same number of places, the count is closer to 1 in 25. Look at the SSI /DDA roles for autistic children. they have skyrocketed in 10 years. Chart shows 50% increase from 2000-2010 in autistic kids getting SSI(with at least this much growth or more in families that werent aware that their autistic children qualified for SSI.)
Most of this occurs symptomatically after the first round of MMR shots. Have vaccines saved millions of lives? Maybe.Have vaccines caused autism when prior to shot reception the childrens cerebrosity was normal? Definitely. I know several families that this exact thing happened. That you say there is no scientific evidence is simply dishonest because there is data collected on this, outside of big pharma paid studies. Its called talk to your neighbor.
http://www.bazelon.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=eZaz6hw6dxI%3D&tabid=40
"When I was a kid, 1 in a 100 were autistic in 5 places I lived in the US between ages 3-16. For my kids, living in the same number of places, the count is closer to 1 in 25."
Right, but when you were a kid the way autism was diagnosed was narrower than by today's standards. And the disorder was less understood.
DavidK - Seriously? The guy was proven to be a fraud. Not claimed, proven. More than once, by many independent reviewers.
"Herd immunity is compromised ."
MOOOOO!
"Vaccine's are safe. Vaccine's are effective. "
Excellent. Then lets do a large scale double blind study with an unvaccinated control group so you can prove that.
Skindeep,
If many independent reviewers have debunked Wakefield, list them and let us, the Dread Ilk, evaluate these reviewers.
DavidK - Seriously?
David Lews was very serious.
The guy was proven to be a fraud.
Wrong again, that is not the conclusion found in 2012, by someone who actually reviewed the work. Something you never did.
Not claimed, proven.
Your claim, which, you have yet to prove.
More than once, by many independent reviewers.
Number of independent reviewers cited by myself: One, David Lewis.
Number of independent reviewers cited by SkinDeep: Zero.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP, BITCH (Skindeep)
Vaccine's are safe. Vaccine's are effective.
Yeah, we're not going to pay any attention to your groundless assertion's. And you'll probably never understand why.
Vaccine's are safe. Vaccine's are effective.
Drugs are safe. Drugs are effective.
Crack on ho's!
"It's just as likely the rates of autism in the US are the same as ever, only the diagnostic rates have increased"
So then what did doctors of 100 years ago call 7 year old children who couldn't talk, and smeared feces over the walls on a regular basis?
Perfectly normal?
If you think that the diagnoses have been systematically changed then that is fair enough, but you need to indicate what they used to call this condition rather than say that doctors of 100 years ago were so unbelievably stupid they didn't think it remotely strange that a teenager was still wearing nappies (you guys call them diapers).
The fact is if it existed 100 years ago then we would see conditions very similar to it noted by physicians of the time.
I can't believe these idiots.
I always thought the MMR/vaccine thing was hoaxery in the climate change mode.
Well, we'll see. If the sample size was small enough, it could be noise. Then again it might very well not be. Looks like it's time for somebody to try to reproduce some results.
I can't believe these idiots.
No, wait. Of course I can.
Vox, I may end up owing you an apology for thinking you were nuts on this one.
"Large scale double blind studies" regarding vaccines effectiveness will never be done. They could not get past an ethics review. These kinds of studies are only done when there is no reason to be confident of a benefit.
And, the truth is, very few advances in Medicine have required - or been discovered by - these kinds of studies. When penicillin first came out, no one who saw it working was interested in doing anything except mass producing more of it. Or surgery using non invasive scopes. At first, results were worse than older techniques but it was just so obvious that removing a gall bladder thru a few bandaid sized incisions was going to own the future over doing the same thing by cutting a 9 inch hole across the abdominal muscles.
Simplytimothy, the modern trendy likes his video games fantastical.
Reality won't sell.
Tiny Tim, tim...tim.
Here me out babe, trust me, there is $$millions in this for the right producer. I would be at Meyer's office but he is out kibbutzing for the war, so take this meeting as an opportunity for you to grow in the craft. We all need to grow--we are artists, its what we do.
See, Tiny Tim, you are looking at this wrong, its not "reality" we want, but "germs" and "serums" and microscopic stuff. Kind of line "finding Nemo" but in the bloodstream, nervous system and ganiculars.
Following me?
good.
Now! imagine you are a speedo clad mitachondria living in some hedge-fund trader's testicular fat as he sunbathes on Miami Beach...
" . . . its not "reality" we want, but "germs" and "serums" and . . ."
. . . Raquel Welch?
You gotta die of somethin' eventually.
" . . . its not "reality" we want, but "germs" and "serums" and . . ."
. . . Raquel Welch?
Yes, but, you don't know she is Raquel Welch because you are a mitochondrial germ living inside Raquel Welch's ganiculars.
Think film-noir and Body Heat but your are the communicable disease William Hurt gave to Kathleen Turner.
(takes long drag on cigar, then leans forward punctuating his point through wafting smoke)..
You gotta die of somethin' eventually.
Exactly!
So why not be the germ that kills the host?
The smart germs/mitochondrial/serums winners jump from host to host choosing who they will do in by means that cannot be said in polite company.
Its a winner!
I think I had 1 too many glasses of wine.
Good night.
> ...what if we delayed vaccination until kindergarden, would that still protect the public?
It seemed to work fine back in the 1960's when I got mine.
> You did not get the modern MMR vaccine.
True. The vaccine has changed considerably over the years.
> We simply cannot trust the CDC on this issue (or perhaps any other).
I'll take any other for $100, Alex. Just do some research on CFS;
> What is proven? Vaccines save millions of lives.
Nothing is proven. No proper studies have been done. We have no idea how many lives vaccines have saved. The most serious illness that was affected by vaccines was smallpox, and we no longer even vaccinate against it. The best argument might be made for the polio vaccine, but even it has drawbacks.
> Vaccine's are safe. Vaccine's are effective.
Again. No proper studies have been done. We don't actually know either is the case.
Herd immunity is compromised by vaccine-refusers, making themselves more prone, as well as the general public, to life-threatening diseases.
You don't even recognize the problems with this statement do you?
Didn't Cartoon Network already do that one, simplytimothy? Osmosis Jones, Wikipedia informs me.
Wow. Just wow.
Who cares if vaccines cause autism? The really important question that no one here is asking is: how do vaccines impact women, undocumented refugees, and the LGBTQI2LS/MFT community?
In case anyone is curious, here is the link to the press release where David Lewis said, and I quote, "There was no fraud committed by Dr. Wakefield."
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ongoing-investigations-by-dr-david-lewis-refute-fraud-findings-in-dr-andrew-wakefield-case-133649563.html
" . . . you are a mitochondrial germ living inside Raquel Welch's ganiculars.
Think film-noir and Body Heat. . ."
Well, to tell you the truth, I was thinking more along the lines of Fantastic Voyage and getting to body fluid wrestle with her.
I think I had 1 too many glasses of wine.
Don't underestimate the Tao of the cigar.
So I'd said a few days ago that I was suspicious of Vox's conclusions, but lacked the training to say why. Well, I still lack the training, but I know that when the original paper author comes out and says "Yup, we lied about the data," that pretty much settles the issue. All the people who wrote lengthy posts about how you weren't cited in Nature, or how the man who pointed all this out lacked the appropriate degrees, must be feeling pretty stupid right now. But for my part, I have no problem admitting it: You were right, and I was wrong, Vox.
So let me ask those of the mea culpa crowd, why did you believe the CDC before?
Seriously? What was giving you the warm and fuzzy?
The reality is bureaucrats lie... and often.
Once you grow up and accept the truth you will be set free to analyze rationally. Suspend your bias and let the truth reveal itself.
Truth is truth.. no more no less. As the atomic weight of oxygen is physical truth... no more no less.
Please, your government lies to you and doesn't discriminate. They lie across the board... and often.
"Please, your government lies to you and doesn't discriminate. They lie across the board... and often."
And they do discriminate as well. In a lawsuit with them right now over them doing just that.
Shit, maybe if they built a bamboo control tower a plane loaded with safe vaccines would land.
OT: More government conspiracy: to redistribute BoA settlement money to Democratic backers.
VD: "assertion's"
I laughed out loud.
Tiny Tim: "We are the sickest, fattest, most grotesque civilization ever in existence, and we have the "best" medical care available and utilized by the largest number of people in the history of humanity.
Go to the doctors office and see footless, legless, grotesque, obese, drooling zombies waiting to see their high priest to receive absolution out of the magic pill bottle."
Very well said. Damned right.
I have friends that are losing their memory, diabetic, overweight and on a long list of pharmaceuticals.
Getting healthy in many cases (terminal cancer, genetic diseases, etc. aside) simply requires self-control and a radical diet change. The answers are out there and they aren't in pill bottles.
in other 'abuse of power' news, gamer gets SWATted while live-streaming:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/popular-gamers-real-life-swat-raid-livestreamed-on-twitch/
notice how the first priority of the pigs is to get the stream shut down once they become aware of it?
notice their obnoxious and abusive attitudes EVEN THOUGH by the time they had reached the game station they should have observed enough data to already begin doubting that this was drug dealer?
Pardon me if this is a dumb question. What race are those fetal cells from? I just have this feeling it might be important.
Vox, I may end up owing you an apology for thinking you were nuts on this one.
Nah, you're hardly the first. And you won't be the last. See: Vox's First Law.
But for my part, I have no problem admitting it: You were right, and I was wrong, Vox.
Real men don't have any trouble doing so. Good of you to do it. The thing is that Hooker had previously said that he had Thompson's admission. That's a very strange thing to claim if you don't. I think he was trying to document what he already knew with the paper, but he didn't manage to do so in a conclusive manner.
Anyone believing anything out of the CDC probably also believes that the annual inflation figure is under 3% and the unemployment figure is 6.8%.
Maybe I should finally join Twitter so I can see Vox shit down Dr Scientist's throat.
The plot thickens: http://time.com/3222008/paper-questioning-cdc-autism-study-retracted/
I'm not sure why they would have retracted given that the author of the original paper in question admitted to the omission of data.
Science! So, so trustworthy...
Hm. I wonder why it's the black children especially that showed up with problems in the study.
Is it a genetic susceptibility, something like a predisposition to sickle-cell anemia that causes the reaction?
Is it just that more black women, when told by a governmental type to stick their baby with a needle, say, "Go ahead?"
If only someone could do a study. Maybe even an experiment.
I wonder why it's the black children especially that showed up with problems in the study.
My suspicion, and that is all it can be, is that it is due to Vitamin D deficiency. Unless you go out of your way to take supplemental Vitamin D3, you get most of your Vitamin D from your skin being exposed to sunlight. The darker your skin, the longer you have to be in the sun for that to happen. Hence blacks are often Vitamin D deficient, and this is also probably why they have higher cancer death rates.
Once again I have not the faintest clue whether these objections are in ANY way true or false.
The site Return of Kings just put up an article about HPV vaccines. Does anyone here know about the necessity of such a vaccine? The author mentions that men who enter the dating market later in life may not have built up an immunity to HPV, and unfortunately I am such a man, so is this something to worry about?
http://www.returnofkings.com/38710/hpv-vaccination-a-twisted-debate
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