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Saturday, September 20, 2014

Teach scientists not to rape

I found this New York Times article by a female scientist to be amusing on several levels:
My story is not unique. In July, Kathryn B. H. Clancy and her co-authors Robin G. Nelson, Julienne N. Rutherford and Katie Hinde published a survey of 666 field-based scientists in the journal PLoS One and reported that 26 percent of the female scientists surveyed had been sexually assaulted during fieldwork. Most of these women encountered this abuse very early in their careers, as trainees. The travel inherent to scientific fieldwork increases vulnerability as one struggles to work within unfamiliar and unpredictable conditions, but male respondents reported significantly less assault (6 percent).

I know several women with stories like mine, but more often it is the men of one’s own field team, one’s co-workers, who violate their female colleagues. The women surveyed by Dr. Clancy’s team stated that their “perpetrators were predominantly senior to them professionally within the research team.”
The first level is the way in which the actual behavior of scientists contrasts with the way laymen are supposed to trust them. Remember, we are supposed to believe that these scientists are individuals who will only report the true and proper results of the scientific process without any bias or dishonesty or corruption because they are trained to do so. So, what can we conclude from the fact that they can't go out into the field without raping their female colleagues? It would appear that they are not being taught not to rape, would it not?

Second, notice the way the woman blithely skips over the fact that the whole reason these "trainees" are brought along into the field in the first place is as science totty. Women in science, particularly attractive women in science, are handed every possible opportunity by their male superiors chiefly because those superiors are looking forward to the possibilities created by spending large quantities of time with them in exotic locations. It's not an accident that this attractive woman, pictured to the right, "landed a position as a professor before I even started to write my dissertation." She probably genuinely believes that her rapid advancement was solely because she was so "promising" and talented. This complete lack of self-awareness is perhaps understandable in a large-breasted weather girl, but it is both funny and sad that an otherwise accomplished scientist could be so inobservant.

Third, it would be very informative to know how many of the 74 percent of the female scientists surveyed voluntarily had sex with men "predominantly senior to them professionally within the research team." Based on what I know of female science majors, I would estimate at least three-quarters of them, and 100 percent of the attractive ones, did.

Of course, the push to encourage women in science is only going to cause more such sexual assaults to take place, which is one more reason why it is a bad idea. Science doesn't need more women, especially if more women in the field are going to help transform otherwise good male scientists into rapists and sex criminals.

Labels:

88 Comments:

Anonymous Laz September 20, 2014 4:16 AM  

"Your the smartest guy I ever met and your too stupid to see he made up his mind 10 minutes ago."

Anonymous Wyrd September 20, 2014 4:43 AM  

(OT):

Vox,

Thanks for not publishing Summa Elvetica decades earlier. If you had, I would have to deal with all my players wanting to have a dual-axe-wielding-with-gunpowder-named-Lodi dwarf in my campaign. Cheers!

Anonymous 204 September 20, 2014 4:52 AM  

I saw her picture before reading the entry and thought you were using it as an example of a woman who looked mad, rather than attractive.

Anonymous Roundtine September 20, 2014 5:04 AM  

First of all, rape is science. Second, a survey of 666 field-based scientists? Are they studying chicken blood splatter formations? She studied "brine that bleeds sideways" in Turkey. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see what is going on.

Anonymous Take the High Road September 20, 2014 5:38 AM  

"Of course, the push to encourage women in science is only going to cause more such sexual assaults to take place, which is one more reason why it is a bad idea." Nonsense. If more women entering science are accompanied by more males of color, rapes will slowly be reduced to nothing as white males are forced out. This is why feminists are so firmly allied with communities of color and so firmly in support of mass immigration from female-friendly places like Mexico and Somalia.

Anonymous T September 20, 2014 5:50 AM  

But I thought scientists were trained to be Lightworkers, Flower Children, the New Breed with evolved emotions from being indoctrinated at a sufficiently early age as to make scientific mind shaping feasible?

Blogger Michael Maier September 20, 2014 5:55 AM  

"I took my chances with the local police, and to be honest, I don’t know if it made matters better or worse. Each scientific field excursion needs an authority figure who has been clearly designated as someone whom women can tell."

Well that can never go sideways now, can it?

Anonymous zen0 September 20, 2014 6:07 AM  

And then, one day in the Mediterranean resort town of Antalya, instead of going to the marketplace with the group, I sat in a cafe to study some maps. It was broad daylight when I began walking back to the hotel, and a stranger pulled me into a stairwell — and then did some other things.

Which shall remain nameless. Maybe he tried to sell her a rug.
Be that as it may, when is sitting at a cafe or walking to your hotel alone at night "the workplace".

Anonymous Statists are so dull September 20, 2014 6:13 AM  

But I thought scientists were trained to be Lightworkers,...

They are but it's still a pathological, hierarchical structure so the most self-serving, insincere, abusive ones rise to the top by gaming the system.

The indoctrination leaves those at the bottom are even more socially ineffective than the average (it's basically school for adults for the rest of your life).

Anonymous Edgar September 20, 2014 6:18 AM  

You didn't make the most obvious point which is that they never publish parallel data for the men. What's the base rate here? Is this a lot, compared to what men cop? Maybe it is, for all I know it could well be. But who the hell knows?

Anonymous Statists are so dull September 20, 2014 6:21 AM  

...it's basically school for adults for the rest of your life...

Which explains the situation in the original article.
> Adult-aged child goes out playing without teacher or note from parents.
> Goes full retard. (A single white woman out-and-about alone in Muslim country? Come on. There are parts of my home town where a white woman would have to be an idiot to walk alone.)
> Pays price for naivety/stupidity.
> Looks to blame the rest of the world because they haven't learned to take personal responsibility for their own behavior.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 20, 2014 6:33 AM  

Here is the thing about woman with an IQ at least three standard deviations above the norm. They don't have interests, they have all consuming obsessions. They will constantly be walking into walls because they are in another world. They have no real sense of self awareness half the time. To put it mildly this creates a window of vulnerability.

I am or at least I was, familiar with Antalya, it's a resort town in Turkey, The population is mostly tourists from the shadier parts of the Med. Which makes it one of the more dangerous places for a woman in Turkey.

These women used to be given a decent safety brief about the dangers of field work. 'You are in the third fucking world and a woman on her own is viewed as unattended property to be claimed by any passerby'. More importantly, male grad students were expected to act as escort. I am sure that is all PC dust in the wind at this point.

Now we have reached, the very hazily defined assaults by “perpetrators were predominantly senior to them professionally within the research team.” Probably not Rape-rape but one of the new definitions of rape that includes any kind of regret at all, what so ever, on the woman's part.

Its a bit more complicated than, The Professor who views female grad students as one of the perks of the job and the Female Grad Student who thinks he will actually leave his wife for her, but its a decent enough frame of reference, if you haven't taken the Red Pill.

Anonymous Andy September 20, 2014 6:51 AM  

Isn't expecting to walk around a city in Turkey, as you would in America an awful example of white Colonialism? This lady is not understanding her white privilege and should check herself.

As an aside I would not have believed women are promoted above men just for being attractive unless I had seen it with my own eyes. And this is in Science.

Anonymous clk September 20, 2014 6:55 AM  

Look.. any time you run into a pretty female scientist or engineer you know without doubt that they got there based soley on thier looks ... i have watched it time and time again as they use sexuality to advance so the claim that they somehow dont know what qas happening in simlpky not true .. they know it, they use it and they benefit from it....

Anonymous dh September 20, 2014 7:22 AM  

I red this article, and the woman is not evne claiming rape. She is claiming an undescribed event that left blood under nails.

The other misleading aspect is that the underlying data only suggests a high rate of sexual harassment + sexual assault.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 September 20, 2014 7:27 AM  

The dick works!
rape is science --- It's comment like that why I keep coming back.

Let's see: Prostitution is how old? See the value in pointing out the obvious. Thanks.

I had a brand new 10 million dollar thought this afternoon. The rise of vandalism and the rise of multiculturalism follow the same time line trajectory.

Conservatives aren't "only right" - they are the only right.

Blogger James Higham September 20, 2014 7:38 AM  

Third, it would be very informative to know how many of the 74 percent of the female scientists surveyed voluntarily had sex with men ...

[Chuckle]

Anonymous Blox September 20, 2014 8:02 AM  

As a naive Archaeology major, it took me a couple of terms to figure out why I was never invited to intern on the regular trips to exotic Mediterranean digs, but rather the two hottest girls in class...

Anonymous NorthernHamlet September 20, 2014 8:08 AM  


I can confirm this: "These women used to be given a decent safety brief about the dangers of field work."

It may be different by school, but women were taught very directly to never be alone. The ones who ventured off, often paid for it. Some of them paid in a far harsher way than this girl... real rapes accompanied by real beatings... and not in any semi-public alleyway.

Having been in some nasty places, abroad and in the states... I would never allow my wife or daughter to walk alone.


Also, Vox,

this attractive woman, pictured to the right

False. 4 of 10, pushing it.

Anonymous Mr. Unintended Consequence September 20, 2014 8:08 AM  

"I like plants. I think about plants almost every hour of the day, and several hours of the night as well. I respect plants and I know there’s more to them than meets the eye... But it is rocks that were my first love and that continue to hold my heart captive. I love rocks with the unconditional love that you lavish upon a newborn baby."

How could you read that and not smile? That is some funny shit on so many levels I don't even care about the rest of the article. She loves rocks with the unconditional love that you lavish on a newborn baby? Really? I wonder what conclusions I might be able to draw from that? Does someone have lolcats at home in her efficiency apartment?

Crazy is as crazy does.

Blogger Jim September 20, 2014 8:15 AM  

BTW, what happened to the large-breasted weathergirls? Now they are all just large girls.

Anonymous Mr. Unintended Consequence September 20, 2014 8:16 AM  

"In August, Lego began selling a set called “Research Institute” that features three female scientist minifigures: a paleontologist, an astronomer and a chemist. I am well qualified in two of those fields, and I am here to say that playing with a different set of dolls will not adequately prepare your daughters for a career in science."

She closes the piece with all the mental stability with which it opened.

Newsflash: Legos do not prepare you for a life in Science. Write that someplace where you will remember it, like across your forehead in lipstick, weeping late at night, alone in your apartment but for a half gallon of Ben and Jerry's.

This woman makes the chick from Fatal Attraction look like the soul of probity.

Anonymous ... September 20, 2014 8:18 AM  

female scientists do it with bunson burners

Anonymous bob k. mando September 20, 2014 8:25 AM  

VD
...especially if more women in the field are going to help transform otherwise good male scientists into rapists and sex criminals.



see, there's your error.

ALL men are rapey mcrapists imbued and inured with rapey rape culture.

also, this reads to me something like that atheism conference "Would you like to get some coffee" sexual harassment deal.


"We rode in an air-conditioned bus for days while I stared out the window and scribbled notes about the roads and cataloged photos of the landscape."


THAT is 'science'? *cough* bullshit *cough*

Anonymous A Visitor September 20, 2014 8:29 AM  

OT: Cataline Sergius, on your comment at the sister post to this at AG you linked to Coupling twice. I hold you responsible for getting me hooked! I've already watched the first four episodes. Result!

Anonymous Tom B September 20, 2014 8:30 AM  

It's not an accident that this attractive woman, pictured to the right, "landed a position as a professor before I even started to write my dissertation."

True Story.

I graduated from USF in 2011 and began looking for work as an instructor. One of the women that graduated with me, we'll call her "C", was a former Tampa-area model who went back to school now that her modeling career was winding down (she's in her mid-30's now). She was competent, so its not like she was completely without skillz.

She got a job within 30 days of graduation teaching at a community college south of Tampa.

Me? Well as I have revealed here before, I spent 9 months after graduation without a job or a home, before finding a factory job - which ended when the company outsourced to Costa Rica, where I found another factory job, temp to perm, who had a hiring freeze when my year appointment was over. 145 applications to different colleges and only one interview, from a Saudi school who balked at my Religious Studies degree.

C was out of the college instructor/adjunct profession after her first term. She hated it. (She recommended me to her bosses, but it was clear they wanted her, because they offered her a raise to stay.) Two other schools in the area, when they found out she was available, offered her a spot. She declined, and is now happily married and has given birth to a baby girl.

C got her job without any letters of recommendation. I had three - including one from a very important Biblical archeologist.


Anonymous Claire Delton September 20, 2014 8:46 AM  

"Based on what I know of female science majors..."

This probably isn't the best barometer to determine much of anything.

"Science doesn't need more women, especially if more women in the field are going to help transform otherwise good male scientists into rapists and sex criminals."

If the mere presence of a woman in the field is able to transform a good man into a rapist, then I think we ought to have MORE women in the field. Clearly they have magic powers if simply by being their a good man turns bad. Who knows what other powers they possess that would be useful in the field. Turning base metals into gold? Seeing through solid rock?

Anonymous Sigyn September 20, 2014 8:48 AM  

OT but scary as hell:

The Unionists are acting like a conquering army in Scotland.

Half the news media outlets are claiming that the photos are from the 2011 London riots ("Riots? What riots?") while the other half are blaming Twitter for the riots that supposedly aren't happening.

Blogger Miles Gloriosus September 20, 2014 8:48 AM  

BRAVO!!!

I read that article in The New York Times and I almost puked, scientifically speaking.

Anonymous The Great Martini September 20, 2014 8:49 AM  

Frankly I wouldn't believe anything about that article until you read the underlying study with a magnifying lens. I was going to get around to it today but didn't. If you want to, you could save me the trouble. As Christina Sommers has pointed out, most of those studies involve criteria for harassment that includes verbal put-downs and sometimes even personal feelings of threat or vulnerability. Assault criteria probably have a little more meat to them, naturally. But read the fine print. I'm going to.

Anonymous VD September 20, 2014 8:50 AM  

This probably isn't the best barometer to determine much of anything.

Relevant knowledge possessed by a high-IQ mind? You prefer to place your bets on ignorance in the hands of the sub-normally intelligent?

You may wish to keep in mind that I have a Bachelor of Science degree.

Anonymous H September 20, 2014 8:58 AM  

Re: Attractiveness of the pictured woman

Remember that she is a scientist, so in the academia/lab setting you need to adjust the attractiveness scale for what male scientists would normally see. A somewhat related example would be anime convention girls, who may be a 6-8 in real life, but in the world of anime conventions become Aphrodite.

@Sigyn

Those Unionists are just acting like their fellow vibrants would.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 20, 2014 8:59 AM  

It was broad daylight when I began walking back to the hotel, and a stranger pulled me into a stairwell — and then did some other things. Perhaps an hour later I staggered out with his blood under my fingernails. I cannot describe what happened in a way you will understand, because I still do not understand it myself. I have been trying to understand it for almost 20 years.


uh, let me help you out, science babe.

an *HOUR LONG* encounter in a stair well has left her confused for 20 years.

it's called an 'orgasm', dearie. and you've got blood under your fingernails because you were scratching his back. it's damn sure not because you fought him off.

not many men are going to put up with getting scratched by a hellcat for 30+ minutes *in a rape situation*. he'll either give up and leave OR, more likely, immobilize or incapacitate you.

pro-tip ( just the tip ) for the ladies, if getting raped, vomit, piss and shit yourself. if he's still going at it, you might not going to have been making it out of this alive anyways.

to those who don't think she looks good; she's late 30s, at a minimum. quite likely over 40.

you need to handicap her looks both for the male nerds who infest the professoriat and for her age. when she was mid-20s, she would have practically blinded them.


this also explains why she's publishing this article NOW.

the guys USED to pay attention to her. she's not getting the same deferential treatment anymore ... so now that she can't benefit from it, she's calling them out for their 'sexism'.

Anonymous Andy September 20, 2014 9:10 AM  

Not really. What you have here is Protestant unionist scots fighting whilst drunk. Fighting of course drunk Catholic Scottish nationalists. Both sides will happily stab the other and anyone else who happens to be around.

Scotland has always been a divided nation, Catholic or Protestant, Highland or Lowland, mainland or islands, Unionist or Nationalist.

The vote was more about scabby benefit monkeys aka Nationalists bribing the workshy vs Unionism.

Anonymous No Logical Connection September 20, 2014 9:16 AM  

The guy in the alley was a scientist?

I'm as confused as she is.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 20, 2014 9:19 AM  

Reminds me of the pretty blonde rocket scientists in Eek the Cat: http://youtu.be/RJdzqDpbOz0

Anonymous Anonymous September 20, 2014 9:23 AM  

False. 4 of 10, pushing it.

A first glance, she looks somewhat attractive: long hair, clean skin, white teeth, symmetrical face, no sign of obesity -- better than most. There's something mannish about her face that becomes creepy on taking a longer look, though.

But at a gathering of science academics, which is the world that told her she was "promising" and put her on the fast-track to success, she probably looks like Miss America.

Anonymous Michael September 20, 2014 9:39 AM  

What a load of crap. Literally anything these days can be construed to mean "sexual assault," even just trying to socialize with a woman who isn't interested.

Women spend an inordinate amount of time and money trying to doll themselves up in order to make themselves feel attractive - thanks in no small part to social pressure and the media influence - then turn around and act insulted, even victimized(!), should guys notice. Well, you can't have it both ways: either you want to be attractive and all the attention that ensues, or you don't. Tell you what, ladies. If you're so put-off by attraction from the opposite sex, do away with all the cosmetics and revealing clothing and just walk around like unmade beds with nappy hair and bad hygiene.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of women who take part in these pathetic sexual crusades against men are in fact doing so only because they're unattractive and cannot get attention any other way. bob k. mando's latter post is likely an accurate appraisal of the situation.

Anonymous Anonymous September 20, 2014 10:07 AM  

Claire, I'm not sure if you're being subtly sarcastic or completely missed the point, but in case it's the latter, here's a clue: Vox doesn't actually think the presence of women turns good men into rapists.

The problem (okay, one problem) here is that she's conflating two completely different things: rape in a foreign land and office hanky-panky -- which have nothing to do with each other except that they involve sex.

She opens with a story of being raped by a stranger in a country where infidel women are seen as fair game. If you read between the lines a little, you can see how it happened: at first, she dressed modestly and stayed with the group to protect herself, but at some point she got to feeling safe and adventurous and wandered off alone for a bit of local color, and got a lot more than she expected. And her "it took me 20 years to understand it" shows a certain ambivalence. But still, as she tells it, a straightforward case of rape.

But then she tries to relate that to workplace "harassment," in which no one is being dragged into alleys or even into a broom closet against her will. Here's how it goes (and I don't even have to have a degree to know this, because I've lived on Earth around human beings for 40+ years): A professor or head of a lab spots a cutie coming up through the ranks and takes her under his wing, telling her how promising she is and promoting her ahead of male/ugly candidates. During long days/nights in the classroom/lab, he hits on her and implies the obvious quid pro quo (or she implies that she's looking for one). They start having sex, tacitly trading sex for academic/professional advancement. The girl may not be thrilled about the sex; and she probably wouldn't be having sex with the guy if not for the benefits; but as far as he can tell, she's just as happy with the trade-off as he is.

That's not rape. It may be prostitution, but it's not rape. Rape doesn't mean "sex you'd rather not be having if life were perfect." Or, if rape does mean that now, then you're going to find that men are at least as victimized and it won't be a special girl thing anymore, as we've been discussing at Alpha Game.

To equate the two in an article is simply dishonest. That's one thing coming from a rape victim who's still trying to come to terms with her feelings about that 20 years later -- obviously she has issues. But any decent editor should have caught that and objected, telling her she needs to choose a subject -- the danger of rape in foreign lands or workplace harassment -- and stick with it. The Times is basically taking advantage of her mental illness here.

Blogger Northern Hamlet September 20, 2014 10:11 AM  

cailcorishev,

There's something mannish about her face that becomes creepy on taking a longer look, though.

My impression as well. Can't handle the creepiness.

Anonymous Harsh September 20, 2014 10:24 AM  

Since we all know that in this day and age "sexual assault" means "any unwanted sexual advance by a man", I'm surprised the statistic isn't north of 90%.

Years ago my aunt, who studied biology as an undergraduate, had an affair while on a field trip with her married professor. Back then I thought it was more than a bit odd that an otherwise intelligent woman would do such a thing, but now it makes perfect sense.

Anonymous Save the West September 20, 2014 10:28 AM  

Well, she was being female at the time, so obviously she not only had it coming but enjoyed it. I lol'ed.

Women need to be kept at home, not out mingling with men and tempting them into "raping" them. The Muslims have the right idea.

Anonymous Godfrey September 20, 2014 10:41 AM  

What a massive scientific breakthrough! Males are attracted to females and want to procreate with them! Stop the presses! This is the scientific discovery of the century!

One would think that a scientist of all people would understand male/female dynamics and the urge to procreate.

What's next? Will scientists discover that physical and intellectual inequalities exist between individuals? Stay tuned for further shocking scientific discoveries!

Anonymous Corvinus September 20, 2014 10:44 AM  

this attractive woman, pictured to the right

False. 4 of 10, pushing it.


@NorthernHamlet
I suppose she could be a 7/10 with a bad picture. But yeah, more toward the middle of the bell curve.

I know several women with stories like mine, but more often it is the men of one’s own field team, one’s co-workers, who violate their female colleagues. The women surveyed by Dr. Clancy’s team stated that their “perpetrators were predominantly senior to them professionally within the research team.”

I saw a "female scientists are being looked at as sex objects" article a couple of weeks ago. Wasn't this one.

It's obvious that many women only get into science because a certain hawt scientist caught their eye and they decided to pursue him. The subject matter is only secondary, although obviously the women would have to be at least passable in it.

And as with any such situation, we can be pretty sure that those scientists who do get ratted on are either bumbling BETAs who creeped the women out, or ALPHAs who pumped-n-dumped them a la Julian Assange.

Blogger Dewave September 20, 2014 11:03 AM  

"Each scientific field excursion needs an authority figure who has been clearly designated as someone whom women can tell."

She is literally asking to be able to run to Daddy and 'tell' on the others.

Anonymous Shibes Meadow September 20, 2014 11:20 AM  

@H: Remember that she is a scientist, so in the academia/lab setting you need to adjust the attractiveness scale for what male scientists would normally see. A somewhat related example would be anime convention girls, who may be a 6-8 in real life, but in the world of anime conventions become Aphrodite.

Au contraire. As a twenty-year veteran of the anime convention scene (industry pro, not guest), I can say with confidence that anime convention girls consistently fall into the 7-9 Attractiveness Level range. Unfortunately for the average congoer, those 7-9 Attractiveness Level girls spend most of the convention in the Green Room and at private room parties with the likes of (old, married, Catholic, harmless) me. For pros who are not married (or not faithful) and who are flexible with regard to their sexual mores, an anime convention is a freaking erotic wonderland. As we used to say in the biz, "If you can't get laid at A-Kon, you might as well chop it off!"

Then, too, there's the age factor. Many of the Attractiveness Level 8+s at anime conventions are Too Young For You. Keep your eyes and hands (etc.) away from them.

Thankfully, the influence of J-culture in anime means that many anime congirls are partakers of typically Japanese attitudes towards sexual roles. In other words, behind every cannon-wielding Space Princess lies a blushing schoolgirl hoping that Sempai will notice her.

ところで、「H」が何を意味するか知っている。

Anonymous VD September 20, 2014 11:40 AM  

There's something mannish about her face that becomes creepy on taking a longer look, though.

Also, pointy elbows. 2/10. Would not bang.

Anonymous Feh September 20, 2014 12:18 PM  

You didn't make the most obvious point which is that they never publish parallel data for the men.

Also, they did not control for the rape rate in other professions.

Are there fewer scientist rapists than in other professions? I would tend to guess there are, based on the number of beta white knight and involuntary celibate science majors I knew in college.

Anonymous Feh September 20, 2014 12:21 PM  

As a naive Archaeology major, it took me a couple of terms to figure out why I was never invited to intern on the regular trips to exotic Mediterranean digs, but rather the two hottest girls in class...
--------------
I graduated from USF in 2011 and began looking for work as an instructor. One of the women that graduated with me, we'll call her "C", was a former Tampa-area model who went back to school now that her modeling career was winding down (she's in her mid-30's now). She was competent, so its not like she was completely without skillz.

She got a job within 30 days of graduation teaching at a community college south of Tampa.

Me? Well as I have revealed here before, I spent 9 months after graduation without a job or a home, before finding a factory job


I hope that both of you know that as white males, you are playing on the lowest difficulty setting!

Anonymous Feh September 20, 2014 12:25 PM  

Newsflash: Legos do not prepare you for a life in Science.

Well, shit, I got my son the Lego space shuttle, so he damn well better get accepted for astronaut training someday.

Anonymous Idle Spectator September 20, 2014 12:34 PM  

I raped my doctoral student.

With charm. It was penis-shaped.

Anonymous Azimus September 20, 2014 12:44 PM  

I was at the Museum of the Rockies recently, world renowned for their paleontology work and collection. In this museum, there is an interactive media center where among other things you can watch a birdseye view of a fossil being extracted from the rock by a field team - you know, chip chip chip dust dust dust. The timelapse went on in the background for 4-5 minutes, representing (I'm guessing) 2-3hrs of activity. I made the following observations:

1. No less than 8 different individuals were in the film, though the excavation size allowed only 2 people to work at a time. The oldest seen individual was a male in his 40's, and a similar age female. The rest were 20-something children.

2. Two or three people were lounging around the excavation at all times. Two of the women were highly attractive.

3. The two attractive women might've worked 20 minutes total between them. My only thought at the time was "you have come to this site, likely miles from a road and dozens of miles from a city, and you just sit there?" Dozens of miles from other human beings - yes that IS how a nerd would make his move....

Anonymous kh123 September 20, 2014 12:57 PM  

"...the excavation size allowed only 2 people to work at a time. The oldest seen individual was a male in his 40's, and a similar age female. The rest were 20-something children."

Talkorigins needs updating, and Pharyngula needs commenting. What you were witnessing was Science™.

"Two or three people were lounging around the excavation at all times. Two of the women were highly attractive. "

Again, Science™, in the process of being f*cking loved.

Anonymous Sigyn September 20, 2014 1:04 PM  

Hey, guys, is Stickwick ugly? Because I need to know, before I buy her book, whether she only got her job because she banged the entire department staff. No way I'm buying a book written by a know-nothing ho.

I mean, that's what you're saying.

Anonymous VD September 20, 2014 1:07 PM  

Because I need to know, before I buy her book, whether she only got her job because she banged the entire department staff.

Ah, Sigyn, you do understand that physics doesn't involve fieldwork, right? There is a pretty fundamental difference between the sort of female scientists who do physics and those who go in for marine biology or taking pictures of rocks.

Anonymous Azimus September 20, 2014 1:12 PM  

Question for those rating the attractiveness of the scientist woman above: is it purely a physical rating? And would a 2 of 10 indicate she is only more attractive than 20% of the population? And what are the bounds of the population she's being compared to, white-child-bearing age US women? Because no one who has ever had the misfortune to go to a Golden Corral or Old Country Buffet in the US in the last 10yrs should be giving this woman a 2. I'm not saying she's hot but by jingo her back doesn't jiggle when she walks...

Anonymous Sigyn September 20, 2014 1:16 PM  

Ah, Sigyn, you do understand that physics doesn't involve fieldwork, right?

Yes, and I also understand that the conversation has evolved past mere fieldwork, starting about here.

But whatever. Narrow the subject back down whenever it makes you happy.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Penn State Geology September 20, 2014 1:17 PM  

They are always taking my work for granite...

Anonymous Stickwick September 20, 2014 2:32 PM  

Well, I sorta do fieldwork, if you count observatories.

Anonymous Varenius September 20, 2014 2:47 PM  

cailcorishev: And her "it took me 20 years to understand it" shows a certain ambivalence.

Yep. I'm guessing that whatever happened, it wasn't entirely unwanted/coerced.

Anonymous Josh September 20, 2014 2:50 PM  

Question for those rating the attractiveness of the scientist woman above: is it purely a physical rating? And would a 2 of 10 indicate she is only more attractive than 20% of the population? And what are the bounds of the population she's being compared to, white-child-bearing age US women?

/facepalm

Anonymous Don September 20, 2014 3:36 PM  

@ Vox - It's her knees that are too sharp. Her elbows look a solid 4/10. What she does need is a fucking sandwich. I know you like yours a little thinner but good gravy I can see her ribs even without seeing them. Maybe some dessert too.

Anonymous Sigyn September 20, 2014 3:50 PM  

Well, I sorta do fieldwork, if you count observatories.

ZOMG YOU SCARLET WOMAN! *points quivering finger*

Blogger Rick67 September 20, 2014 4:33 PM  

And if some of these senior scientists who are male are devout Christians... would they be more or less likely to rape, assault, or try to have consensual sex with these junior science assistants who are female? And yet Christians are the threat to Science and Progress.

Anonymous Idle Spectator September 20, 2014 5:42 PM  

Well, I sorta do fieldwork, if you count observatories.

Don't you let him get you down! You need anything, like a long, nice, hug, you let me know.

Anonymous Mike M. September 20, 2014 5:44 PM  

As an engineer, I haven't seen incompetent women - but if you're attractive and female, it's hard not to get promoted at a pace that is scarcely credible.

Having attractive women around is good for morale. But promoting them beyond their merit is fatal.

Anonymous Anonymous September 20, 2014 5:48 PM  

Azimus, the "pointy elbows 2/10" thing is a joke. You see, every time someone in the manosphere posts a picture of a woman and says she's at all attractive, other guys start claiming she's far too ugly for them, finding whatever they can to nitpick about her appearance. She could be a Miss America contestant, and you'd still get guys complaining about her thin lips or pointy elbows and claiming she's a two-bagger. It's pretty obvious overcompensation.

As you say, she's not obese or hideous, so nowadays that puts her in the top half. The somewhat mannish features of her face (wild guess: high T likely in women who are more drawn to study rocks than to study people?) I didn't even notice until I'd been looking at her a while to find out what the nay-sayer was complaining about. She's still top-half easy.

Anonymous Mtclimbr September 20, 2014 5:54 PM  

666, huh?

Anonymous Dan the Man September 20, 2014 6:01 PM  

There's something mannish about her face that becomes creepy on taking a longer look, though.

It becomes creepy, not because of her mannish appearance, but because she has the eyes of a mentally unstable person. If the eyes are the window to the soul, she needs 200 mg or so of setraline daily. Her entire story should be treated with extreme skepticism.

Anonymous Giuseppe September 20, 2014 6:19 PM  

The "study" was done with "hundreds of respondents, recruited online"
Right.
Sounds like solid "science" to me.
I am so tired of all this SWJ bullshit trying to pass itself off as "serious" and "important", "work". It's sociology at best. And Sociology is not a science by any stretch of the wildest of imaginations.

Anonymous Feh September 20, 2014 6:39 PM  

Having attractive women around is good for morale. But promoting them beyond their merit is fatal.

Having attractive women around is bad for morale because they are ALWAYS promoted beyond their merit and cut miles of extra slack that no man or plain-looking woman would ever get.

Plus all too many of 'em expect other people to do their work for them.

Blogger Northern Hamlet September 20, 2014 9:15 PM  

Question for those rating the attractiveness of the scientist woman above: is it purely a physical rating? And would a 2 of 10 indicate she is only more attractive than 20% of the population? And what are the bounds of the population she's being compared to, white-child-bearing age US women?

It means if I'm going to have 10 drinks in the very near future, only 2 can remain before I'm like oh well, what the hell, why not? She'd have to clean up still though.

But in seriousness, it's looks but also the personality that has likely been shaped by them. She gets points for ok hair and not being a whale. However, the creepiness has probably been there a long time and gotten her a fair share of social problems. The stare alone screams that the interaction will be irritating and full of nuttiness.

Anonymous Stickwick September 20, 2014 9:15 PM  

Sigyn: ZOMG YOU SCARLET WOMAN! *points quivering finger*

I can't tell you how exciting and sexy it is to sit in a cold, dark control room on top of a mountain all by yourself for 12 hours straight. No wonder so many women go into this profession. ;^)

Idle Spectator: Don't you let him get you down! You need anything, like a long, nice, hug, you let me know.

That's great, but what I really need is for someone to take care of this big stack of work I have, with deadlines coming up and stuff. It would be totally awesome if you'd do it for me. And you don't even have to take the credit! Thx!

Anonymous Sigyn September 20, 2014 9:30 PM  

Don't you let him get you down! You need anything, like a long, nice, hug, you let me know.

Wilson? Is that you?

How are the...uh...yellow boxes treating you lately?

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic September 20, 2014 11:29 PM  

This woman is going insane, which is what happens to most women as they approach middle age.

Eighteen years ago, she was the young hotty getting picked up for rough sex in Turkey. Now, everybody's looking straight through her to the latest, youngest, grad-student hottie. So all of a sudden, it turns out she's just been RAPED for the past 18 years. Therefore, we urgently need to keep her rapacious male colleagues from having sex with all these newer, younger women.

Blogger CJ September 21, 2014 2:07 AM  

Gotta go with the commenters who noted that the picture shows what she looks like NOW. Twenty years ago she likely looked pretty good (even if the elevator didn't go all the way to the top).

Anonymous Rex Little September 21, 2014 2:12 AM  

any time you run into a pretty female scientist or engineer you know without doubt that they got there based soley on their looks

In my 36 years as an engineer, I had only one pretty female colleague. She was highly competent; in the 7 years we worked at the same company, I never heard anyone complain about her work.

Anonymous Rex Little September 21, 2014 2:15 AM  

By the way, Pharyngula has a thread up on this same topic, with (as you'd expect) a rather different viewpoint. I would find it amusing if some of the Ilk went over there and commented, and some of their people did so here.

Anonymous Idle Spectator September 21, 2014 1:27 PM  

That's great, but what I really need is for someone to take care of this big stack of work I have, with deadlines coming up and stuff. It would be totally awesome if you'd do it for me. And you don't even have to take the credit! Thx!

I think that is incredibly heroic and brave that you put yourself in that situation Stickwick. I can help. I think I need to show you my telescope.

Anonymous Stickwick September 21, 2014 2:03 PM  

Don't forget "amazing." It's axiomatic that any woman doing anything at any time is "amazing."

Anonymous The other skeptic September 21, 2014 2:05 PM  

Women are empowered by regulating the sale of acids, razor blades, guns and university professorships.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2014 5:44 PM  

6% of males being sexually assaulted during fieldwork ?????

I have trouble believing this. Have I led a sheltered existence or do they define sexual assault very broadly ?

AKAHorace

Blogger subject by design September 21, 2014 6:44 PM  

"Sexual assault is a pernicious and formidable barrier to women in science, partly because we have consistently gifted to it our silence. I have given it 18 years of my silence and I will not give it one day more."

What has she kept silent about? That she was sexually assaulted by a Turkish non-scientist while on a geriatric guided tour of Turkey? What does any of her personal story have to do with sexual assault within the sphere of science? So, if one of her Australian fellow-travelers had been pulled into an alley, it wouldn't have been related to science? Because the Australian was a mere tourist who didn't sketch the rocks while in Turkey? She should have also included an anecdote about her childhood trauma of putting down her favorite cat. It would have been as relevant to her point.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 21, 2014 10:20 PM  

No Logical Connection September 20, 2014 9:16 AM
The guy in the alley was a scientist?



your elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor, does it?

here, let me womansplain for you:
it was the RESPONSIBILITY of the male members of team to be her unpaid chaperone and bodyguards, at all times.

the fact that she got herself drug into a stairwell for the best ( also non-consensual ) sex of her life is their fault.

because they considered her to be a mature adult, capable of taking care of herself.

you see how this works?

Anonymous Maddog September 22, 2014 5:55 AM  

It's that Attractive White Female Privileged.

Funny thing is, It's obvious she talks about White Male Privilege but is oblivious(This being a so called professor) to how this so called privileged group has so many of it's members so willing and ready to by take there own brothers privilege and give it right to her.

This is a common event that isn't spoken of.

So yes, just in the name of fair play and waking up the pampered. The Attractive white female privilege needs to have a spot light shined on its naive insidious lunacy.

As It's been pampered for far to long and has created rampant bigotry only topped by its own hypocrisy.

Anonymous Thales September 22, 2014 9:43 AM  

Like they say, she's a 10 in the office, but a 6 anywhere else.

Blogger Akulkis September 22, 2014 11:25 PM  

As we used to say when I was deployed to Saudi Arabia..

She's an 8..... Saudi scale.

Blogger Microraptor zhaoianus November 19, 2016 12:23 PM  

I thought male scientists were "socially and sexually hapless gammas... slaving away in the laboratories."(1) Not that you would know, since it is obvious to any non-anencephalic that you are nothing but an utterly ignorant ü
pseudo-intellectual loser with severe delusions of grandeur, whose every single act reveal him to be an absolute idiot.
(1): http://voxday.blogspot.de/2016/10/mailvox-women-in-science.html

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