ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2019 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, September 05, 2014

Vibrancy on video



Don't think you'll be left out of the fun, ladies. This is why you must carry. If both those victims had had compact .357s, there would be five fewer predators out there looking for kicks through beating up white people. Remember, vibrants never fight fair, so you always have to be prepared to deal with at least three of them at a time, and four is the safer assumption. Or, as in this case, five.

If you're armed, it's actually better if there is more than one attacker because it's that much less likely that the pro-diversity crowd will try to concoct a case against you. Just don't pull a Bernie Goetz and shoot anyone in the back or when they're already down.

Even if you can't carry a gun for some reason, a serrated three-inch blade on your keychain will be enough to address the first attacker. Get the blade out, keep your hand out of sight as the first attacker comes in, stay low, drive in with your left shoulder, rear hand in and up, and the attacker should be out of commission before he even knows you're armed. Don't try to warn them off, because when outnumbered you want surprise on your side. Vibrants tend to be cowardly, as you can see by the way they dart in and out when they attack, so they're probably not going to stick around after the first guy goes down. But don't pause and wait for them to run off, move in and take out the second one as soon as the first one is incapacitated.

The guy actually acquitted himself fairly well, but the key mistake he initially made was to try to pretend the predators weren't there and hope they would just pass by. Never ignore groups of vibrants, especially not at night, and not when they are approaching from behind you. If you whirl around, aggressively meet their eyes and stand there in silence watching them, they will usually slink off in search of less dangerous prey. Remember, most blacks are even more frightened of whites than whites are scared of blacks because they have been raised on scary stories about white racism and oppression since they were small. Use the fear.

The very last thing they want to see is a cold smile that says: "Why, hello there, Mr. Vibrant. I have been waiting my entire life for someone to give me this excuse."

Labels:

295 Comments:

1 – 200 of 295 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous meowmix September 05, 2014 12:33 PM  

Vox, this guy is right up your alley
:)

http://jamesmsama.com/2014/08/25/a-letter-to-anyone-who-has-ever-felt-unappreciated/

Anonymous Musashi September 05, 2014 12:35 PM  

...and this is why everyone hates them.

Anonymous dh September 05, 2014 12:38 PM  

Get the blade out, keep your hand out of sight as the first attacker comes in, stay low, drive in with your left shoulder, rear hand in and up, and the attacker should be out of commission before he even knows you're armed. Don't try to warn them off

Excellent advice. A long time ago extremely similar tactic against a superior opponent, with a serrated fixed bayonet, through the bottom of a throat and up into the base of the brain. Immediate death for the first attacker followed by hasty escape. Even a marginally sharp blade with about 15-25 lbs of pressure will easily pierce bone (coming out is a different matter).

Surprise is a powerful, powerful weapon. These people never expect you to strike first or hard.

Anonymous JCB September 05, 2014 12:40 PM  

I actually have to give some credit to that woman. She ran right into the fray when her boyfriend was being mauled by a pack of feral savages. She's a keeper.

Anonymous PA September 05, 2014 12:40 PM  

Absent a gun or a serrated blade, driving a one-inch car key into the assailant's face will take him out.

Blogger pdwalker September 05, 2014 12:41 PM  

"maximum violence" should be your first reaction when attacked by a group of thugs.

Anonymous dh September 05, 2014 12:41 PM  

Also, this guy and his lady friend should have heard Derbyshires' advice. Prescient.

Anonymous Soonertroll September 05, 2014 12:43 PM  

Wow! What a couple of racist cops.

Anonymous z September 05, 2014 12:44 PM  

First time I've seen cops doing something useful in a youtube video.

Anonymous dh September 05, 2014 12:45 PM  

I actually have to give some credit to that woman. She ran right into the fray when her boyfriend was being mauled by a pack of feral savages. She's a keeper.

Yeah I have mixed feelings on this. There are only low probability outcomes. If the boyfriend was down and out, her separating herself and running is the best possible outcome probability wise. However, if the boyfriend has a fighting chance, she is best to try to pick off one of the orbiters and either take him down or remove him from the equation by being a punching bag. In this case, she did the only best high probability thing, which was to provide some interference for the boyfriend, keep the pressure on the attackers, and decrease the odds that the boyfriend would be the center of a stomping. The pressure of an additional participant likely prevented the attackers from focusing solely on the single target for maximal damage.

Anonymous hygate September 05, 2014 12:47 PM  

If you're armed, it's actually better if there is more than one attacker because it's that much less likely that the pro-diversity crowd will try to concoct a case against you.

Not sure if that is true any longer. I seem to recall a case not long ago where a "yout" was killed in the commission of a robbery, armed robbery, and the "yout's" relatives were upset that the victim didn't just give him the money. Cause if they had then the "yout" would still be alive.

Anonymous Ugh September 05, 2014 12:47 PM  

Not being aware that pack was behind them... BIG MISTAKE.

Anonymous rho September 05, 2014 12:49 PM  

Absent a gun or a serrated blade, driving a one-inch car key into the assailant's face will take him out.

I would think that would be hard to do quickly, unless you walk around with your keys in your hand.

Even if this guy was armed, he would have a harder time drawing a weapon since he was set upon quickly and from behind. VD's point about awareness and alertness is the key takeaway from this assault.

Anonymous Oy September 05, 2014 12:49 PM  

OF COURSE she is holding her fscking phone! She was probably looking at that instead of being aware of her environment.

Anonymous hygate September 05, 2014 12:50 PM  

Of course that didn't actually fly with anyone. But I think it gives you some idea about the mindset. I try to rob you, at gunpoint, but if you fight back you are oppressing me.

Anonymous dh September 05, 2014 12:51 PM  

rho I think that's probably important. Situation awareness is key. It looks like an enclosed alley, two ways. Very dangerous to go down into. I think the attackers did not pick their target all that well. This was far closer of a call than they are probably used to.

Anonymous JCB September 05, 2014 12:53 PM  

Google streetview for this location shows a gentrified area of downtown Springfield, Mo. with a bunch of SWPL stores & restaurants/bars. The mistake these two made was walking through that bank drive through alley in the middle of the night, though that's also the likely reason this was caught on film.

Anonymous fish September 05, 2014 12:54 PM  

I bet all those guys are honor stoodintz.

Anonymous rho September 05, 2014 12:54 PM  

rho I think that's probably important. Situation awareness is key. It looks like an enclosed alley, two ways. Very dangerous to go down into. I think the attackers did not pick their target all that well. This was far closer of a call than they are probably used to.

To that point, let's congratulate the birth of two new race realists. Happy Birthday, you two!

Blogger GK Chesterton September 05, 2014 12:55 PM  

I agree the gal did well. She was obviously outmatched but helped split the cowardly attackers and possibly saved the guys life. And he did extremely well considering the odds and the surprise attack. The last guy did look white though...wanna be gangsta.

And even props for the cops who come to the scene blindingly fast all things considered.

Blogger flambeaux September 05, 2014 12:55 PM  

VD: Just curious about why you specifically mention a serrated edge?

Anonymous Hunsdon September 05, 2014 12:56 PM  

Condition white kills. (No, condition white isn't a racial thing, it's Col. Cooper's color code. Ask Nate.)

Anonymous fish September 05, 2014 12:56 PM  

Oh yeah....when should we expect Eric Holders press conference announcing a thorough investigation?

Anonymous VD September 05, 2014 12:57 PM  

Just curious about why you specifically mention a serrated edge?

Same reason steak knives have them. You're going to be using it to rip through flesh, fat, and muscle. A little sawing may be necessary.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey September 05, 2014 12:58 PM  

I highly recommend Extreme Close Quarters Concepts for these type of situations. You will be tired, dirty, and sore, and you will get your ass kicked throughout the 2 1/2 days of training.

Shivworks
ECQC Video

Anonymous John C. Wrong September 05, 2014 1:00 PM  

"Even if you can't carry a gun for some reason, a serrated three-inch blade on your keychain will be enough to address the first attacker. Get the blade out, keep your hand out of sight as the first attacker comes in, stay low, drive in with your left shoulder, rear hand in and up, and the attacker should be out of commission before he even knows you're armed."

So.... only having a green-belt in karate ... and not being a strong visual thinker... Can you walk me through this again steps 1-5? Where do you stab them actually in this case? Head/throat/body?

Anonymous Challenger Grim September 05, 2014 1:02 PM  

I actually have to give some credit to that woman. She ran right into the fray when her boyfriend was being mauled by a pack of feral savages. She's a keeper.

I'm surprised Vox didn't bring this up. Notice in the video she seems to leap into the middle like a warrior gal, right up until slugged in the face, then she's a big more hesitant about involving herself. Forget race realists, I think we saw the birth of a gender realist too.

Though you are right, she is a keeper.

Anonymous John C. Wrong September 05, 2014 1:02 PM  

Also, just so I'm sure, "Vibrant" = black? Or vibrant = black and hispanic? Does this distinction even matter for the tactics you describer?

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 1:02 PM  

if you were a dinosaur, my love ...

you'd be a racist for killing all of those wonderfully vibrant youths who get good grades and hope to go to college someday.

Anonymous Don September 05, 2014 1:03 PM  

Blades even short ones are illegal in some places make sure you know the laws of your community. If you're using a lockback make sure that it works and has enough of a grip that you don't slice your own fingers off if it sticks on the way in. Seen that kind of wounds lots of time. Make sure you can open it with one hand and you are familiar with it in your hand.

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 1:03 PM  

And Springfield MO is only 4% black.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 1:04 PM  

"Surprise is a powerful, powerful weapon. These people never expect you to strike first or hard".

"The very last thing they want to see is a cold smile that says: 'Why, hello there, Mr. Vibrant. I have been waiting my entire life for someone to give me this excuse.'"

Contradictory? Please reconcile.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 1:04 PM  

Blacks fight in groups because they are cowards one-on-one. I was attacked by half-a-dozen on the street, stuck my pistol my pistol in the fact of the Big Mouth, and they were gone. Once they got around the corner they started cursing me. Around the corner.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 1:06 PM  

John C. Wrong September 05, 2014 1:00 PM
Where do you stab them actually in this case? Head/throat/body?



you'd probably stick the blade in your own eye socket.

best if we just outlaw all edged weapons.

it's for your own protection, you see.

Anonymous Heh September 05, 2014 1:07 PM  

Where do you stab them actually in this case? Head/throat/body?

Yes.

Anonymous Musashi September 05, 2014 1:07 PM  

It might be best to acknowledge that there is but one way of dealing with these creatures.

Adjust personal thought patterns to accommodate a "kill it now" mindset.

Train accordingly.

Anonymous John C. Wrong September 05, 2014 1:08 PM  

I think we all know where bob k. sticks it... especially into black guys.

Anonymous Salt September 05, 2014 1:08 PM  

Contradictory? Please reconcile.

What contradiction. It's the look in the gator's eyes just prior to striking.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 1:11 PM  

Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 1:04 PM
Contradictory? Please reconcile.



the second case requires situational awareness, such that you face them down before they initiate the strike run.

however, there's nothing about the latter advice which precludes you from standing with dominant side back and prepping the knife OUT OF SIGHT.

in fact, if you lock eyes with them, they're going to be LESS aware of what your hands are doing around waist level anyways. that happens when their attention is focused from your neck up.

Blogger Dirtnapninja September 05, 2014 1:11 PM  

A group of aspiring rappers no doubt

Anonymous rho September 05, 2014 1:12 PM  

"Surprise is a powerful, powerful weapon. These people never expect you to strike first or hard".

"The very last thing they want to see is a cold smile that says: 'Why, hello there, Mr. Vibrant. I have been waiting my entire life for someone to give me this excuse.'"

Contradictory? Please reconcile.


Two different people, reconciliation unnecessary.

Blogger totenhenchen September 05, 2014 1:14 PM  

Hit whatever toy can until you have time and space to go for the face.

Anonymous kh123 September 05, 2014 1:15 PM  

John Singleton... paging Mr. John Singleton to inform us on the evils of ghetto gentrification and how wrongheaded this guy would've been to assume that he was about to be assaulted.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 1:15 PM  

John C. Wrong September 05, 2014 1:08 PM
I think we all know where bob k. sticks it... especially into black guys.



so, you just said black guys are bottoms?

how is this not racist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9hIZe6cF68



Heh September 05, 2014 1:07 PM
Yes.



i wouldn't bother taking him seriously. he's striking me as quite "Tad-wife" like.


Anonymous Paul Sacramento September 05, 2014 1:16 PM  

Situation awareness is everything.
In terms of learning hoe to actually fight with a knife or gun VS knife and/or gun: Die Less Often by The Dog Brothers of the Dog Brothers MA fame ( full contact stick fighting).

Anonymous Cash September 05, 2014 1:17 PM  

We should have picked our own cotton,

Blogger Eowyn September 05, 2014 1:18 PM  

I have a black friend that likes to tell me that she's just so scared that her little brother is going to get shot some day. She completely glosses over the fact that he's a thug and have been arrested twice for a assault. What I don't tell her is that I agree with her. He WILL get shot someday because he will jump the wrong person. It's inevitable, given the way this country is heading for a race war.

Anonymous Porky September 05, 2014 1:20 PM  

I love how at :30 the guy picks up the cell phone while getting kicked in the ribs.

Just couldn't wait to tweet about what just happened.

Anonymous Koi September 05, 2014 1:20 PM  

For those that know, what can I search for that will help me locate a training center in my area? I'm in Baton Rouge, LA and there are a lot of belt factories, like most places.

Blogger David W. Rankin Jr. September 05, 2014 1:20 PM  

If the guy was thinking at all, he looks like he was thinking "keep walking and get out of the way". The correct response here would have been "make up a pretense and step back against the wall". I have psychological issues with people right behind me and I walk slower than most people, so I naturally tend to let people pass me anyway. There's been several times when I've turned aside and made eye contact, and the person behind me breaks contact and leaves "too quickly".

Once the fight started, the only criticism I can place with with the Miss. Her early response trying to run interference for her boyfriend was probably the best she could do. However, she doesn't keep going long enough. As Vox et. al. have pointed out, women have a tendency to want to quit fighting too quickly. She is walking around stunned with one of the best weapons a person could have in a dirty fight: a high heel. Instead of going into a panicked fugue for the second half of the fight, she should have taken off that other heel, and gone for the neck or face of one of the people hitting her man. Two against three, and I think the crew runs much faster.

I'm more of a fan of subcompact autoloaders than snub revolvers, but I think neither was going to be of great use here; the bad guys were too close. That said, reaching towards the strong side or the small of the back gets bad guys attention really, really quickly....

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 1:25 PM  

Memo to self:

The "Just Keep Walking and Looking Forward And They Will Probably Pass Us By" method is not useful in a concrete tunnel.

Blogger totenhenchen September 05, 2014 1:26 PM  

Twenty years ago or so I got gang stomped by about eight Mexicans. I'm 6'2" and 250 lbs and was wearing a heavy leather jacket and they were all tiny and drunk. At some point I tripped over one of them and went down, after which I basically just went fetal and covered my head. I managed to kick one of them in the balls, but they continued the stomping for a bit until they heard police sirens a few blocks away. All the while, ten or twelve able bodied proto-SWPLs looked on, pleading with them to stop...

Anonymous Carlotta September 05, 2014 1:31 PM  

@Jcb

And more then once at that.

Blogger Bike Bubba September 05, 2014 1:31 PM  

I wonder if the girl had her phone out because she was calling the cops. They may have had more situational awareness than we're giving them credit for.

And heckuva fighter for a little guy and gal, too. Just a darned shame that they didn't help some thugs assume room temperature.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 1:33 PM  

GreyS September 05, 2014 1:03 PM
And Springfield MO is only 4% black.



and, aside from the DV videos ( which i did not look at ), every single 'crime' vid posted involves ... blacks.

shocking, i know.

maybe white people ( ~88% of population ) are just smart enough to do their crimes off camera?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/2970000.html


oh, wait, here's a white chick punching a cop while a black guy gets arrested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWyNK-zu2kI&t=3m50s

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 1:34 PM  

"Where do you stab them actually in this case? Head/throat/body? "

It takes a lot more force to achieve good penetration when stabbing someone than most noobs expect, or so I've been told. Stabbing > slashing.

Here's a good book on the subject with a simple, no frills approach. It focuses on one simple but effective technique suitable for most fights.

Anonymous Carlotta September 05, 2014 1:35 PM  

Grandma alway carried a large rock in the purse and could swing like a major league baller just for this type of situation.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 1:35 PM  

Wow, look at those prices. You can also find it in ebook format for a bit less.

Blogger John Williams September 05, 2014 1:37 PM  

So.... only having a green-belt in karate ... and not being a strong visual thinker... Can you walk me through this again steps 1-5?
This was taught to me by a SEAL. Hold the knife, grip in your palm, blade up along your forearm. The attacker will never see it. Concealment and unknown advantage are key. Now think middle block, you'll slice him performing the block. If he gets in, danger close, it's real easy to come in under the ribs with it.

Now go to Bane's site and read his posts on knife fighting. He valued a knife that one could make grip changes with, reliably, while covered in blood. Need to practice that, use some hamburger, get the knife bloody, check it grip, change the grip, don't like it, buy a new knife. Rinse and repeat. Toss an orange in the air, stab it. Do it again till it's a smooth efficient motion. Straight lines, natural lines, slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Half the reason they got jumped was because they were walking along in Condition White, totally clueless (actually I think they were pretending to be clueless thinking it would keep them safe), but if they were armed, they would have been walking like armed people, aware of their surroundings, hands on their weapons if threatened, considering the best way to deter any potential aggressers.

Anonymous paleopaleo September 05, 2014 1:40 PM  

The difficulty of carrying a blade is the number of freaking metal detectors one must pass through these days. Whenever I travel to a vibrant area it's usually for a concert, sporting event, exhibition, etc.

Everyone should practice getting up off the ground fast as lightning. Get a weighted vest and do 50 reps every day as fast as you're able. ANd if you're life is on the line go full berserker.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 1:40 PM  

I think this video underlines the need for more BBs in the gun. Five in a .357 mag snubbie might do one or two dudes really good (assuming good hits), but should they decide to get uppity or realize you're empty, you're pretty much SOL. Sure the .357 and five will do most situations. I just like to be sure. Better idea is 10-20 semi auto rounds with a reload or two containing 19-33 rounds each. That said from a guy using the XD45 with 11 to 14 + 2 to 6 reloads of 13 each. And all handloads :-)

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 1:41 PM  

I've been around knives enough to know that they would be an absolute top notch weapon only after I passed through a long stage of learning and preparation.

Without spending serious time with the blade, I'd cut the heck out of myself if I tried using it on someone in close quarters.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 05, 2014 1:45 PM  

@ Thirdmonkey re: ECQC

Looks similar to what I learned in Haganah. Defend by attacking quickly, intensely, and as decisively as possible.

What we did was not quite as dirty or full contact/speed most of the time, but very tiring and painful at times.

I have no illusions about being close to a bad ass now (had to take a break after 6 months), but it was a great reality check about my limitations and expectations about what any real fight might be like.

Anonymous Sgt polite September 05, 2014 1:45 PM  

Jim Grover, aka Kelly McCann's "Jim Grover's Combatives Series: Volumes 1-3" is an excellent streamlined COMBATIVES (not martial arts) course for self -defense. His "Kembative Knife: A Minimalist Knife Curriculum Under Duress" DVD is good too.
Sammy Franco's Window Maker program is even more streamlined and pretty easy to train on a Body Opponent Bag (BOB).
As an aging GenXer who took years of escrima, which is a great art, I find myself paring things down to simple combatives.

Anonymous DrRansom September 05, 2014 1:45 PM  

If you're planning on carrying a blade, train with it like you would a gun. In addition to knowing the difference between vital and non-vital targets, and timers vs. switches, the only way to internalize real threat vectors from a weapons platform is to train with them and see them in a controlled environment prior to being exposed to them for the first time - and under the effects of large amounts of adrenaline.

Filipino MA systems are the best at this, with Sayoc Kali and Atienza Kali being the best I've been exposed to.

I disagree with VD in that I do not like serrated blades for carry (if you want post-penetration damage, then train in post-penetration techniques, rather than relying on the serrations, which can also get caught in things, and can effectively lessen your force multiplier), but agree absolutely that a blade is just as or more effective of a combatives platform than a gun with the right people/situations.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 1:51 PM  

I like this one.

However, it's illegal to carry pretty much everywhere. Even when you have a CHL, it's still illegal to carry a decent knife in most places.

Blogger Scuzzaman September 05, 2014 1:52 PM  

You can see why the girl should have been carrying, too. She was almost completely ignored until she jumped in.

But standing off and picking a couple of them off would have been both more effective and more attention-getting than what she did.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 05, 2014 1:55 PM  

"You can see why the girl should have been carrying, too."

A co-worker told me their strategy was to both carry, but he would scream and beg like a little girl to distract them from her drawing and shooting.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 1:57 PM  

First, I'm not an expert in knives, but I don't agree on the serrations. I've gutted a lot of deer. I think a good quality blade that is razor sharp is best, but I will yield to more informed opinions. Unless you are cutting bone, serrations I think are a hindrance.

Second, the woman was ready to fight, but she took pretty good punch. She could have been killed for her trouble. If I run the scenario through my head, I see my woman getting her and the kids the hell out of there while I take on the bad guys.

Have any of the ilk discussed this type of thing as in "what do we do if.." with their spouse? I haven't, and I suppose I should. I don't have any vibrants around where I live. The only time I've been in a situation that was cause for concern was when we went to Minneapolis, and in hindsight I was extremely stupid. Not allowed to carry there. I've since decided there isn't anything there I need to ever go back for.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 1:58 PM  

VD's last piece of advice in this column is spot on. I went to school at UC Berkeley and had to live in shit neighborhoods of vibrancy in Berkeley and Oakland. I learned very quickly that if I stood up straight and confident, returned the stares and gave a look that said "My lucky night, I haven't killed one of you fuckers in weeks" they would look away and go find a White Sheep.

Don't be a white sheep.

Be a White Wolf.

Anonymous Sgt Polite September 05, 2014 1:58 PM  

Regarding GreyS Comment about needing a lot of preparation for knifework:
As I said I trained in escrima for many years, which is one of the better knife systems out there. One of my instructors was a Corrections Officer, and while he taught us the fancy lines and moves, he also taught us the most common and dangerous knife attacks were the simple prison style ones like Slap and Tap, The Sewing Machine, etc. these can be learned in a day.
"Combative Pistol Jim Grover's Guide to Extreme Close-Quarters Shooting" covers the 4 basic prison knife attacks and how you can use them for close-quarter pistol work too.

Anonymous Don September 05, 2014 2:02 PM  

Sgt Polite - Corrections officers usually see a fair amount of knife work. They should know what works and simplest is best.

Blogger Guitar Man September 05, 2014 2:03 PM  

I need to brush up on my self-defense. That stated, on rare occasion my job takes me to unseemly places such as Newark or Brooklyn. I'm very aware of my surroundings in those areas, and on heightened alert. I grew up in a rather vibrant neighborhood myself. I remarked to a co-worker that I never felt comfortable walking from my car to the client's office in Newark, with the amount of "youths" hanging on the corner, often staring at me. I always returned the stare. Co-worker insinuated that I was racist. Eh, stupid SWPL who thinks the world is fine. We had another co-worker lose her nephew a couple weeks ago. Knowing where she grew up, and the fact that she's black, I mentioned to the other co-worker that he was likely gunned down. He thought that was racist too. Well, I was right.

I grew up in the hood, but I'm not comfortable there, and I avoid certain areas as much as possible. I also don't think much good comes from urban areas late at night no matter how safe that area seems.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 05, 2014 2:03 PM  

"Have any of the ilk discussed this type of thing as in "what do we do if.." with their spouse?"

This is the first step in preparation, being willing to think about, discuss and plan how to fight for your lives.

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 2:05 PM  

You can see why the girl should have been carrying, too. She was almost completely ignored until she jumped in

That's a great point. I didn't think of that. All the more reason to get her really really trained and comfortable-- so she hits the correct person(s). Blam blam blam. End of situation.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 2:06 PM  

Serrations create pressure concentrations where a blade comes into contact with a surface, decreasing the amount of force that is necessary to begin cutting. Serrations are good.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 05, 2014 2:08 PM  

"Have any of the ilk discussed this type of thing as in "what do we do if.." with their spouse? "

First steps in preparation, think about, discuss, and plan how to fight for your lives.

Anonymous Captain_Caveman September 05, 2014 2:09 PM  

If there is a reputation out there, use it. Black people tend to have the reputation for effective group skirmishes. They use it. A lot. White people tend to be like kobolds (for the gamers out there): If you see three, you can take them. If there is just one, and you out number him fivefold, be afraid. Very afraid. Even Carlos Mencia joked on this stereotype.

Anonymous Heh September 05, 2014 2:10 PM  

i wouldn't bother taking him seriously. he's striking me as quite "Tad-wife" like.

Yeah, I know. Mainly I wanted to make a snarky response.

Stab 'em wherever you can, as many times as you can.

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 2:10 PM  

thanks for that Sgt P

While thinking I was comfortable with a knife, I cut myself pretty good two separate times which taught me to not let my head get further along than my hands in that regard. But it also taught me that knifes can easily do some real stinkin' damage and would be useful if learned properly.

Anonymous Sgt. Polite September 05, 2014 2:11 PM  

Don-I wasn't at the time, but I am a Corrections Officer now. I work at the county level and fortunately, while we have found a few shanks, none have been used. My instructor though had seen plenty of action.
As for serrated knives, they look more intimidating, they leave messier wounds, but they can hang up on things while slashing.
Serrated knives are also more of a pain to SHARPEN than straight.
I like the Tops Wolf Pup Black Micarta Handle Tactical Knife. It's an easily concealable fixed blade knife with a 2.5 inch blade and an easy to carry holster. Under $60 at Amazon.

Anonymous ? September 05, 2014 2:12 PM  

White people tend to be like kobolds (for the gamers out there): If you see three, you can take them. If there is just one, and you out number him fivefold, be afraid.

I don't get it.

Anonymous DrRansom September 05, 2014 2:13 PM  

Serrations create pressure concentrations where a blade comes into contact with a surface, decreasing the amount of force that is necessary to begin cutting. Serrations are good.

That assumes that the edge is the intended cutting surface, as opposed to the point. Slashing in essence is considerably less effective at hitting any kind of target beneath skin/clothing/skinny jeans/etc., and slash wounds are shallower and have less stopping power as a general rule. For that reason, serrations are not good. As Giraffe notes above, a razor sharp blade is optimal, whether skinning deer or popping arteries.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 2:14 PM  

Have a gun.

One pop from anything and they are running for the hills, a 22 would have ended that deal in a hurry.

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 2:15 PM  

Have any of the ilk discussed this type of thing as in "what do we do if.." with their spouse?

We have quite a bit. Most of it comes down to awareness. The vast majoirty of situations are avoidable. That guy should never have walked into that tunnel, let alone with his girl. He should have been very aware of the pack of hounds watching or following him and stayed out in the open.

(add any dozen better choices while watching that video).

Anonymous Yeah September 05, 2014 2:16 PM  

One pop from anything and they are running for the hills, a 22 would have ended that deal in a hurry.

If they're on you like five chimps on a bunch of bananas, it is challenging to draw and engage. Be a shame to hit your girlfriend who just waded in to help... but if it's that or get stomped to death, so be it...

Anonymous Harsh September 05, 2014 2:19 PM  

So.... only having a green-belt in karate ...

Pussy. I could kick your ass. Drunk.

Anonymous Captain_Caveman September 05, 2014 2:19 PM  

I don't get it.

It is a Dungeons & Dragons reference to a race of trap-making monsters. If twenty are seen, then it is a troop movement, and easy to wipe out. If only one is spotted, then there are traps everywhere, and the lone kobold was waiting for you, anticipating your rather excruciating death.

Anonymous Rolf September 05, 2014 2:21 PM  

As my knife instructor said, do the "choo-choo train" motion with your knife hand. Shoulders up, chin down, off hand high to block and protect the head/neck, keep the knife-hand with a saber-grip in fairly high and close, then any time something gets close to your body, start a circular motion with the knife, slicing out high then down and back, so it looks like your arm is the drive piston on a train wheel, and keep going, like a sewing machine. With a sharp knife they might not even feel it, you need to make them bleed them out. Exsanguination takes time, so hurry it along by making as many cuts as you can, then let them dance around taunting you, hemorrhaging, while you back off, cover up, or deal with the next one. A sharp Spyderco knife, like a Delica or Salt, can do amazing things in a hurry. Oh, and get training with it.

Anonymous rho September 05, 2014 2:21 PM  

The knife technique I read (many years ago) was to grip it like Norman Bates in Psycho with the edge pointed away from you. The argument was that even when you're in a defensive posture the pointy bit is away from your body, and that if you end up in a wrestling match for the weapon it is harder to shove it back at you where it can hurt you. It's not a good grip for stabbing, unless you do go full Psycho shower scene, but stabbing is also a good way to lose the weapon if it gets stuck.

The points about training are the most important. Some homespun knife kata invented on the spot is a great way to get hurt and look retarded while doing it.

Anonymous Cash September 05, 2014 2:22 PM  

.357 or some other strong revolver if you want the element of surprise.
They will shoot out of pockets, purses, sweaters, shirts, hats. Your attacker never has to see the gun. This is why I prefer a revolver and I am willing to give up the extra capacity.

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 2:24 PM  

As for serrated knives, they look more intimidating, they leave messier wounds, but they can hang up on things while slashing.

I would guess that razor sharp slashing moves on to the next target very easily. I'd hate to get caught up spending time freeing my knife from someone's jacket or whatever.

What is the normal fight reaction in getting badly cut like that? It seems to me that the person getting cut badly would just want OUT of the situation immediately. Or is it a case of adrenaline masks that for a little while? Man, when I got cut it was like my whole world stopped. I wasn't in a fight but...

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 2:25 PM  

"Slashing in essence is considerably less effective at hitting any kind of target beneath skin/clothing/skinny jeans/etc., and slash wounds are shallower and have less stopping power as a general rule."

Stabbing is the most effective way to incapacitate with a knife. But it's slower than slashing, and you may have an opportunity to get in a slash or two before you get a chance to stab. An opponent that's been slashed is just a little easier to deal with than one that hasn't been.

"For that reason, serrations are not good."

That conclusion does not logically follow. Serrations aren't going to prevent you from stabbing, or even slow you down to any measurable extent.

Anonymous Porphyry September 05, 2014 2:26 PM  

Fucking cowards, 5 against 1 skinny white boy? What kind of street cred do you get for that? It's like they actually hate being here.

Anonymous JI September 05, 2014 2:26 PM  

I had a friend who lived east of East St. Louis back in the day when that was a truly horrific place. He was a redneck who drove a raised-up redneck pickup. He was also crazy, and carried a full auto Uzi in the seat pouch in front of him because he wanted the vibrants to attack him. For several years, he commuted daily through East St. Louis, back and forth from home and his job in St. Louis, Mo. He would deliberately go through the worst areas, slowly, just waiting and hoping for that excuse. Nope, after several years he moved without a single incident, in spite of constant violence in that area. Vibrants can indeed smell danger, and this guy reeked of it.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 2:32 PM  

For what it is worth, some people cut through the sternum and the pelvic bone when dressing a deer with only a very sharp knife. What does a heart surgeon use to cut the sternum? We amateur surgeons should imitate the pros.

I'd go with a blade at least 3.5 inches long, straight, double edged, and fairly strong. Do as VD said, use the elment of surprise, and get a good jab into the first place that offers itself, preferably something vital. If the rest of them don't run off after that, well sorry about your luck.

You aren't gong to grab his arm with one hand and hold it while sawing it off with the other. You are going for a stab, get that blade warm and wet. I don't see what serrations do for you here.

Anonymous Jolofry September 05, 2014 2:32 PM  

I've read some things about criminal behavior. The biggest thing about them is that they're like scavengers, the tend to go for the weakest prey. They tend to go after lone folks who mare distracted and don't seem to pose a threat. The best method of dealing with them is, of course, to avoid them. But if you can't, arm yourself and make sure you know everything about your weapon, how to use it and when you should/can.

I'm unfortunately unprepared myself but I also live in a safe area. I might, however, have to interact more with "diversity" in the future as part of my job, so I should probably build myself up.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 2:36 PM  

I would guess that razor sharp slashing moves on to the next target very easily. I'd hate to get caught up spending time freeing my knife from someone's jacket or whatever.

As others noted, I don't think slashing is the best move. Easier to block and take the force out of it. It is not a sword. A jab on the other hand is tough to block when it is coming point first. It would be easier to miss, which is why you want surprise.

VD, did any of your martial arts training deal with knives?

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 2:37 PM  

Bob K Mando

Thanks, I gets it now!

Another question:

If your girl is packing is it better she wave the gun/blow off a warning round first? Remember, as in this case, you may be under surveillance, plugging one or more of these predators right away may put you in the slammer or lose everything to the vibrants (or their families) a lawsuit, or both. That's "justice" in America today.

However, better that than dead?

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 2:38 PM  

This is starting to turn a 9mm vs 4X debated. The best knife is the one you actually have at hand. The first rule of gun fighting is have a gun.

Anonymous Sgt. Polite September 05, 2014 2:38 PM  

Noah- Your forgetting another component over serrated vs. none. The LEGAL aftermath. I love my old Sypderco serrated Endura, I love my combo edge Benchmade Advanced Folding Combat Knife (sadly no longer made). But I'd rather not have an Officer or worse, a JURY looking at those scary looking evil knives. I'd rather they see my sedate Spyderco straight edge Tenacious.
Remember, juries are filled by the likes that voted for Obama twice.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 2:39 PM  

"I don't see what serrations do for you here."

To me the serrations aren't critical, but I like them. What is critical is having a sharp point centered on the long axis of the knife, the way a dagger or stiletto does. So many hunting or survival knives have curved points that make it impractical to use them for stabbing. Avoid those.

Anonymous DrRansom September 05, 2014 2:40 PM  

Stabbing is the most effective way to incapacitate with a knife.
True. Which is the goal when someone is attacking you.

But it's slower than slashing, and you may have an opportunity to get in a slash or two before you get a chance to stab. An opponent that's been slashed is just a little easier to deal with than one that hasn't been.

No, it's not slower, and no, there is no guarantee that a slashed opponent is easier to deal with in any way - slash wounds are generally not that painful, don't incapacitate at all, and if the opponent isn't horrified, they can potentially become more aggressive and less likely to flee, they can become more slippery and harder to control, and they can also get their blood all over you, and trust me, you don't want that.

In any case, if you don't concede both of those statements, can you provide proof of both?

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 2:43 PM  

If your girl is packing is it better she wave the gun/blow off a warning round first? Remember, as in this case, you may be under surveillance, plugging one or more of these predators right away may put you in the slammer or lose everything to the vibrants (or their families) a lawsuit, or both. That's "justice" in America today.

If you have to get your gun out it is time to use it. To the law, firing warning shots will just mean that the situation wasn't serious enough to warrant the use of a gun. Also, if any vibrants are carrying, you are wasting ammunition and providing them with the vital information of who to shoot first. You'd be better off with a couple on the ground before they figure that out.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 2:47 PM  

What is critical is having a sharp point centered on the long axis of the knife, the way a dagger or stiletto does. So many hunting or survival knives have curved points that make it impractical to use them for stabbing. Avoid those.

Makes sense.

Anonymous Harold September 05, 2014 2:52 PM  

Feminism is male culture appropriation.

Anonymous dh September 05, 2014 2:53 PM  

"Have any of the ilk discussed this type of thing as in "what do we do if.." with their spouse? "

I honestly have the concern that my wife, who often carries, would be on camera walking around over the wounded doing an double-tap for each attacker. She takes the concept of stand your ground quite seriously, as in, stand your ground, flaunt your ground, brandish your ground, and if necessary, cover your ground with shell casing.

I think deep down she would love to take it to a jury vote... to much television.

Blogger Danby September 05, 2014 2:56 PM  

1) too many people seem to have not noticed that the primary goal in the situation is to STOP the attack, not to punish the attackers. In that sense, just having a pistol visible makes the whole thing go away. These guys were just looking to f*** up a honky, not actually get in a fight. Just having a knife probably wouldn't help, but stabbing the first attacker definitely would. From that perspective, which knife (or gun) is the most deadly isn't the point. It's the intimidation factor.

2) Most people aren't going to invest the time or money to train properly. That's just facts, people are lazy and stupid. So Vox' advice is a good generic approach on how to deal with this situation when you don't have the training.

3) I agree with the poster above who said "use your reputation." Why don't the Blacks in Boston cause trouble like the ones in St Louis or LA? Because they know from experience the Irish will hunt them down and kill them. I grew up in a very bad locale, and have spent time in the most violent and crime-ridden parts of my state. I've never had a problem, except from drug dealers trying to get me to buy their wares. I learned early to carry myself in a way that sets off the alert sensors of bad guys (and good girls, which had it's own benefits).

Anonymous Cash September 05, 2014 2:57 PM  

"If your girl is packing is it better she wave the gun/blow off a warning round first?"

Hell no. Ain't nobody got time for that. Or the bullets.

Anonymous Azimus September 05, 2014 2:58 PM  

How fast can a cop run? Guessing at the age and fitness and movement restrictions of the uniform, 12mph? The thugs committed to the attack at 04s, cops run through scene at 39s. At 12mph, they could cover about 600ft. What I'm wondering is if the patrol was already tailing these guys. Not knowing anything about the location, it seems at least likely given they had to be less than 1000ft away when the incident began. If that is the case, is it a VERY powerful argument against patrol-as-deterrance, and the fact that you are on your own in terms of personal protection.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 3:00 PM  

Giraffe,

I always thought it was Conventional Wisdom that by just showing your gun most thugs are so cowardly that it should defuse the situation.

But can you imagine the uproar in certain quarters if in the video the gal pulls out her piece and dispassionately plugs one or more right off? Sure, we'd all cheer, but I bet she'd be in jail and the vibrant's family would be living in her house. Still, better than being in the ground, but my handgun instructor always says that you do EVERYTHING you can NOT to file your gun because your life will change forever, and not for the better, if you do.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 3:03 PM  

"In that sense, just having a pistol visible makes the whole thing go away."

If you are counting on someone being afraid when you pull your pistol, you are going to be scared. They will see it. You will hesitate and you will die.

Anonymous Azimus September 05, 2014 3:06 PM  

As for what the woman should've done - if she knew that the cops were close, flight in their direction would probably have been the best choice. That said, general flight would not be a good option because with her outfit (nice gams by the way) escape was not viable, so sticking together probably made the most sense since without a troublesome man around to harrass them, no doubt the attackers mood would've quickly shifted to more amorous aspirations. She did about the best she could for herself under the circumstances. Without audio, I'm guessing she discontinued her "interference" when the foot patrol announced its presence.

That said, my girls will be trained in self defense when they are 14, and they will get maybe a .32 automatic or 9mm when they graduate high school. Or maybe when they're 16. They'll get the CCP when they graduate... can minors carry?

Anonymous Dan in Tx September 05, 2014 3:06 PM  

My daddy always said to not pull a gun unless your intention is to shoot the person in front of you. I stand by that advice. Otherwise, it's a good way to get it shoved up your ass.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 3:07 PM  

1) too many people seem to have not noticed that the primary goal in the situation is to STOP the attack, not to punish the attackers. In that sense, just having a pistol visible makes the whole thing go away. These guys were just looking to f*** up a honky, not actually get in a fight. Just having a knife probably wouldn't help, but stabbing the first attacker definitely would. From that perspective, which knife (or gun) is the most deadly isn't the point. It's the intimidation factor.

This is true, until you get the guy(s) hopped up on drugs or something. Use the intimidation, but don't rely on it.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 3:14 PM  

I don't get it.

It's kind of a joke. TV Tropes calls it Conservation of Ninjutsu: "In any martial arts fight, there is only a finite amount of ninjutsu available to each side in a given encounter. As a result, one Ninja is a deadly threat, but an army of them are cannon fodder."

It's the same in other arenas: if you come up against a whole bunch of interchangeable guys, they'll be pitiful individually. But if you come up against a single guy, he'll be stronger than the whole bunch was.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 3:28 PM  

if you were a dinosaur, my love, you'd conceal carry 40 knives in your mouth.

making cunnilingus somewhat problematic ... but you don't really want to be doing that with the HPV infection rates anyways.


Noah B. September 05, 2014 2:25 PM
But it's slower than slashing, and you may have an opportunity to get in a slash or two before you get a chance to stab.



not very damn likely.

what part of the knife is furthest from your body, giving you the greatest reach? point or edge?

which kind of motion extends your range the furthest, lunge with push-stab or sweeping slash?

the stab is the attack you make on someone just out of range as you try to close distance OR as they come in.

the slash is a counter to someone who is already inside your guard / point.

of course you can always transpose attack types if you want to get fancy and things are likely to get hectic in a 1 vs 5 anywho.


but if you're trying to get fancy in a 1 v 5, you deserve to get killed.



Rolf September 05, 2014 2:21 PM
With a sharp knife they might not even feel it,



hell, they might not feel it simply due to adrenaline dump.

and, as anybody who has cut themselves on a razor or glass, sometimes it does indeed take a bit of time for the pain to register.



GreyS September 05, 2014 2:24 PM
Man, when I got cut it was like my whole world stopped.



you were aware that you got cut AND you weren't previously target fixated.

i've cut myself many a time and not even been aware i was bleeding. stood up underneath an open dump truck door one time and about brained myself.

didn't realize i was bleeding til my shirt started getting soaked.



Giraffe September 05, 2014 2:36 PM
It is not a sword.



doesn't matter. the stab is still the preferred attack with sword ( ignoring the specific case of the japanese katana which is designed specifically FOR the slashing attack ).

if your opponent is skewered on the 6" of your blade out there at the point and your arm is fully extended it's pretty damn hard for him to even reach your vitals.

take a fencing class sometime. there are three types of fencing:
epee
foil
saber

epee and foil do not even score the edge of the blade. even with saber, point attacks are still the primary threat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing#Weapons


Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 2:37 PM
If your girl is packing is it better she wave the gun/blow off a warning round first?



absolutely NOT.

you can show the gun ( do NOT draw ) if they're +30' away.

but by the time you draw, you should have ALREADY made the judgment that you were in a fight for your life. make every round count, if you can.



Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 2:37 PM
That's "justice" in America today.



re-read Vox's post and read up on what specifically got Goetz put away.

Bernie didn't pay the piper for defending himself.

he got criminal and civil convictions for gratuitous shooting after the thugs were down and disabled.

Anonymous TexMexFlex September 05, 2014 3:29 PM  

RELATED post here:

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/09/05/self-defense-situational-awareness/

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 05, 2014 3:30 PM  

'tucky Packrat and all

In this scenario, in a corridor and a pack is behind you, the only option is the pretend to do something and put yourselves against the wall?

Obviously, the pretend time can be used to get the knife on the ready (concealed from the approaching herd) or better to get to the quick draw of a handgun.

Someone mentioned she may have been calling 911. I am not sure that I would call 911. Maybe get the 91 dialed with the finger on the last 1 ... if no handgun.

Anything else?

Anonymous patrick kelly September 05, 2014 3:31 PM  

"I always thought it was Conventional Wisdom that by just showing your gun most thugs are so cowardly that it should defuse the situation."

no,no,no.... 1000x no.....

In most jurisdictions if the circumstances do not legally warrant use of deadly force, it is not legal to show or "brandish" a deadly weapon either.

My CHL instructor, a retired LEO drilled this into us over and over again. Once you draw a weapon and do not fire to stop the threat, many things can happen, most of them are not in your favor.

That's also why re: shootings by police suggestions about "why didn't they just shoot him in the leg/arm or "shoot the knife out of his hand" (yes, seriously, I've heard this). If it wasn't legally justified to shoot them center mass to stop them, it also was not legal to shoot them at all.

I'm not writing this to defend LEO use of force, just to inform. Once a cop has drawn his weapon,he has already determined (right or wrong) he is legally justified to use deadly force.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet September 05, 2014 3:34 PM  

Vox,

Never ignore groups of vibrants, especially not at night, and not when they are approaching from behind you. If you whirl around, aggressively meet their eyes and stand there in silence watching them, they will usually slink off in search of less dangerous prey.

This is not true. At least from my experience, which is almost exactly like the video on several occasions, you still get your ass beat. They're in a group, and they know they can overpower you even if you fight back.

Now, what is the legality of shooting all of those men right there? This is a serious question. I'm newer to firearms and want to understand what to do in these sorts of situations... since they've happened to me.

If I recalled, Nate said you can't fire into a crowd. What about this situation?

Blogger Revelation Means Hope September 05, 2014 3:34 PM  

If one of the two had been packing, they would have had much higher awareness of their environment and their body language would have shown it.

And if you pull out your weapon in a fight situation, it is only for the purpose of using it for the most massively devastating effect immediately.

Warning shots are for (life) losers. Unless by warning shot you mean warning the other 4 thugs that one of their pack is now out of the picture. Odds are that the woman in a panicky adrenaline charged situation (or man for that matter) is going to miss with the first shot anyway. So there's your warning shot.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 05, 2014 3:39 PM  

TO echo what has been said, if the handgun comes out it is not for showing, it is for using. And the only warning shot is fired into the first person needing shot.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 3:39 PM  

"the slash is a counter to someone who is already inside your guard / point."

Exactly. It's more of a defensive move, performed at closer range, with a sweep instead of a forward-and-reverse movement. Undoubtedly faster. And it's a knife we're talking about -- a pocketknife, a dagger in the best case -- not a rapier. You don't lead or effectively extend your range with such a small knife, and if you attempt this you risk having it taken from you. Better to lead with your weak hand and use it for striking and grappling, keeping the knife your strong hand to stab or slash when the opportunity arises.

Anonymous Kel-Tec PF9 September 05, 2014 3:40 PM  

@Azimus-- minors can't carry handguns. Federal Law requires you to be 21 to own a handgun. (Fed Law gets broken all the time, I know-- but that won't help you if you catch a case!)

For the love of God, do NOT brandish a firearm. It's a felony.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 3:40 PM  

dh September 05, 2014 2:53 PM
I think deep down she would love to take it to a jury vote... to much television.



being a woman, there's a good chance she'd get away with it. women get off scot free for murdering their husbands in their sleep.

better if she doesn't seem to be calm, cool and collected though.




Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 3:00 PM
but my handgun instructor always says that you do EVERYTHING you can NOT to file your gun because your life will change forever, and not for the better, if you do.



true enough. best case scenario, you've killed somebody and are uninjured. that alone is going to bring psych consequences.



Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 3:00 PM
I always thought it was Conventional Wisdom that by just showing your gun most thugs are so cowardly that it should defuse the situation.



yes, this is part of the "carry yourself as if YOU are the threat" posture. most of those polar bear hunters don't like polar bears who have teeth and are willing to use them.

but be aware of how fast a confident, aggressive attacker can flip the tables on you.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=166019

a knife wielder will beat / kill a holstered gun almost every time if he's inside 20'. and that's against someone who knows how to use a gun.

Blogger Danby September 05, 2014 3:42 PM  

@Azimus,
It is illegal under Federal law for a person under 18 years of age to own a pistol. They can't even buy ammo designated as pistol ammo. So a 17 year old can buy .50 BAR, but not .380 acp. The law saw passed in the 1990's along with the temporary "assault weapons" ban.

I'm not sure about carrying, but it would be problematic in most jurisdictions.

This makes no sense, in any way, but when you're legislating on feelgood instead of thinking, that's what you get.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 3:44 PM  

I always thought it was Conventional Wisdom that by just showing your gun most thugs are so cowardly that it should defuse the situation.

It probably does, 70% of the time. There is a certain percentage of the time that showing a pair of kings will get the other guy to fold. But you've tipped your hand. Sometimes you have just showed the opposition that he's got the winning hand. In the context of the vibrants, your wife just showed that SHE is the primary threat and they shoot her first if things get kinetic. She's got her gun out and she's not shooting.... Maybe she's afraid to.

If pulls her gun, and they shit themselves and run, she can always halt the trigger pulling process. If they are not running she better be shooting.

I've never read Sun Tzu but I'm sure he'd say you don't want the other side to know what your play is, even if you think you have the advantage.

Anonymous jay c September 05, 2014 3:45 PM  

The CHL class I attended taught never to fire a warning shot. Always shoot for center of body mass to minimize possibility of collateral damage. Warning shots are almost always illegal (reckless endangerment or discharging a firearm in city limits or something along those lines) since you won't necessarily know where the bullet will stop.

As for hand to hand, my limited martial arts training didn't teach me nearly as much as the few fights I was in as a kid. 1) Know you are in a fight. 2) Be in the fight. 3) Be bigger and badder than the other guy or at least make him think you are. 4) If there's no way out, go all in.

Anonymous Daniel September 05, 2014 3:47 PM  

NorthernHamlet, the two victims would have been well within their legal rights to shoot each one of them to death, with the exception of mopping up the severely wounded and obviously incapacitated. This was not a public crowd by any definition.

Blogger subject by design September 05, 2014 3:47 PM  

We talk about these things as a family and train. Of course, we are more likely to be practicing what to do about an active shooter in church than about how to act in a dark alley at night, because we don't go into dark alleys at night. Stupid.

Blogger Longstreet September 05, 2014 3:50 PM  

She takes the concept of stand your ground quite seriously, as in, stand your ground, flaunt your ground, brandish your ground, and if necessary, cover your ground with shell casing.
Sounds like a keeper.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey September 05, 2014 3:56 PM  

@NorthernHamlet

What is seen in the video is what can legally be described as "disparity of force." The vibrants do not appear to be armed with any weapons, but the advantage of numbers over the two SWPLs is so great that if the unarmed assault continues, they could suffer serious physical injury or even death. This can also be the case if the attacker is much larger and stronger, able-bodied attacking handicapped or elderly, skilled fighter against an unskilled figher, etc. The fact that there are several attackers against just two victims puts them at a severe disadvantage.

At the point where there is a disparity of force such that the victims could not reasonably defend themselves from serious bodily injury and/or death:
1. Pull the damn trigger. Make your shots count.
2. Reload.
3. Pull the damn trigger again until the threat has stopped. Don't shoot to warn, hurt or kill. Shoot to stop the threat.
4. Call the police
5. STFU until your attorney advises you otherwise.

Anonymous clk September 05, 2014 4:03 PM  

"Once a cop has drawn his weapon,he has already determined (right or wrong) he is legally justified to use deadly force."

Cop are allowed the 1+ rule.. they are allowed to apply 1 level of force above what its occuring .... so if its an assault, they can apply deadly force.

Civilians ... it depends on the state.. in tx you can turn and shot into the crowd as long as you feel a little irritated... in ma you have to be already shot and dead before you are legally allowed to shot back.. so it depends on the state

This is a very real situation here .... the first level of defense was not to be there the second should have be awareness ... move to the wall to limit the geoemtry of the attack...

A gun might have helped but if you didnt see them coming you wouldnt be ready. Knives ?... i carry my trekker with me all the time but i would have to be up against it before i would start knife fighting...but atleast its not an evil looking knife ( swiss arrmy trekker with serrated one hand locking blades)

I think here would have been a good spot for pepper spray, stun baton or one of those telescoping steel rods.


Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 4:03 PM  

Justice in America, or at least California:

A friend of mine shot a bugler in his (not the bugler's, wiseguys!) home. Bugler lived, sued my friend, won.

Policeman told my friend: The next time you shoot a bugler in your home, make sure he's dead.

Comments, please.

Anonymous Agent Provocateur September 05, 2014 4:14 PM  

No one can comment until further details are provided, please. Preferably state, city, and if possible street address and number of firearms normally within the house.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 4:16 PM  

"Comments, please."

If you're in a state as backward as California, a shovel and some heavy-duty Glad bags are probably a good investment.

Anonymous clk September 05, 2014 4:18 PM  

Comments, please...

If you pull your gun, you better be the only one left to tell the story.

Judged by 12 or carried by 6 is what the local DA told me at the range.


Blogger Scuzzaman September 05, 2014 4:19 PM  

The next time you shoot a burglar in your home, don't live in California.

Anonymous clk September 05, 2014 4:22 PM  

No one can comment until further details are provided, please. Preferably state, city, and if possible street address and number of firearms normally within the house...


Do not tell anyone thus sort of information on the web... state is fine...

Anonymous Rolf September 05, 2014 4:23 PM  

Just as a for what it's worth, the defensive knife class I took was from InSights , with Greg Hamilton instructing. I've also "fought" for years in the SCA, including boffer-dagger (red paint) with fencing masks. A four inch long, half-inch deep slash bleeds a lot more than a 3" deep x 3/4" wide stab. Multiple slashs bleed faster. If you get in a headlock or similar, go for the support structures, i.e. hamstrings and major leg muscles. Always cut away from yourself. Serrations catch on things, but that's minor; he carries an unserrated blade mostly because of ease of sharpening, and sharp is good. Carry at least two knives on opposite sides- if you get jumped you may not be able to get to one of them. If you have two knives, they tend to focus on the one you hold out in front in your off hand, and miss the other one. Attitude makes a HUGE difference; figure you'll get messed up, accept that, and just mess him/them up more/faster/first, be aggressive, because predators don't like fighting other predators. Only carry a knife that is legal - most places have a 3" blade limit.
But guns are still better. :-)

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 4:25 PM  

Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 4:03 PM
A friend of mine shot a bugler in his (not the bugler's, wiseguys!)



that's one shitty horn player, that you're going to shoot him over it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhtr5J00ntA



Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 4:03 PM
Comments, please.



a - dead men do not testify
b - dead men do not sue
c - you don't talk to the cops without your lawyer present

these things are true no matter what jurisdiction you are in.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey September 05, 2014 4:25 PM  

"Cop are allowed the 1+ rule.. they are allowed to apply 1 level of force above what its occuring .... so if its an assault, they can apply deadly force."

Wrong.
A cop is not legally justified in using deadly force if he draws his weapon.
Police may use deadly force only if police have "probale cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Tennessee v. Garner. What cops sometimes get away with is another thing.

You cannot shoot into a crowd in TX if you are irritated. Sources, please. Also on your assertion regarding MA law.

Unless you are familiar with the effects of pepper spray, it does more harm to most people than good, because you're gonna get it on you, too. Most folks can't fight hyperventilating and trying to hold one eye open. An collapsible baton is better, but you better know how to use it.



Blogger Bike Bubba September 05, 2014 4:31 PM  

Jon, whether or not it's legal to shoot a burglar really depends on the state--you had me confused a minute writing "bugler". (so somebody came into his house, played "Reveille", and got shot? OK, maybe someone's REALLY not a morning person.....)

OK, seriously, what's going on is that most states allow you to use lethal force if you have reason to be in fear of death or grievous bodily harm. So the person is in the clear, criminally. But that still leaves a civil case, and that's where you want a good lawyer, as your friend now knows.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 4:31 PM  

Dying from blood loss is slow, unless you hit a major blood vessel, preferably an artery. Blood vessels are small targets. Lungs and diaphragm are much larger targets, and dropping a lung or paralyzing the diaphragm has rapid effect.

Anonymous a. scientist September 05, 2014 4:37 PM  

If wave a copy of a Noam Chomsky book, scream out that voted for Obama and recite Maya Angelou poems, science had proven this is 97% effective as a gun or knife.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 4:41 PM  

a - dead men do not testify
No, but sometimes a camera does
b - dead men do not sue
So there's not such thing as a wrongful death lawsuit?



these things are true no matter what jurisdiction you are in.

Anonymous rho September 05, 2014 4:43 PM  

Dying from blood loss is slow, unless you hit a major blood vessel, preferably an artery. Blood vessels are small targets. Lungs and diaphragm are much larger targets, and dropping a lung or paralyzing the diaphragm has rapid effect.

It's hard to penetrate the rib cage, which is why we have them.

Blogger Pseudotsuga September 05, 2014 4:45 PM  

Trigger warning--dark humor and punning ahead:
I think I might shoot a bugler in my house, too--bugles are shrill and annoying! I'd let a trumpeter go with just a warning, however.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 4:45 PM  

Bernhard Goetz did not shoot anyone on the ground. Standard media misconception. He was not convicted of anything except the weapons charge:

"Nine days later he surrendered to police and was eventually charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment, and several firearms offenses. A jury found him not guilty of all charges except for one count of carrying an unlicensed firearm, for which he served eight months of a one-year sentence."

Goetz's combative actions were nearly perfect considering bad light, a moving subway train, four opponents and a sprinkling of innocents to avoid hitting with collateral damage. The closest he got to shooting someone 'on the ground' was taking a second shot at the fellow who was closest to him while that person might have been in the process of trying to sit down. The entire conflict lasted 1.6 seconds including draw time and shooting 5 shots from a 5 shot revolver.

Where Goetz really screwed up was in talking to the police and giving them way too much information to try to hang him with.

As for knives, the serrations on a knife begin a rip, from which a cut can progress. If you are mister knife guy and keep your many knives on hand in expertly sharp condition, then you don't need serrations to start a cut on clothes/leather jackets/etc. But most of us are not in that position even if we are enough of knife guys to always be carrying one or two. The factory edge on a modern high-quality blade like the many advised in this thread will be more than good (I like Benchmades). A partially serrated, partially normal blade with a good point will have broad utility and you'll use it to open a lot more boxes and cut open a lot more plastic packaging than you'll use it to stab people... but if you always have it on hand, there it will be.

Anonymous hygate September 05, 2014 4:47 PM  

Those two people were very very lucky.

They were surrounded, in a concrete tunnel. Fleeing wasn't an option.

And the attackers were so close that even if they had been armed with handguns it is unlikely that they could have unholstered them in time.

Best bet, don't go into concrete tunnels.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 4:50 PM  

The 'one-plus' rule is a policy, not a law. It's a framework that some police academies teach prospective students and that prosecutors will sometimes use. But it's not codified in law.

The rule goes something like: If a single opponent attacks you unarmed, you should use your baton/pepper spray/taser; less-than-lethal attacks but still having the advantage. If a single opponent attacks you with a weapon like a knife, club, etc, then you go another step up, to full lethality and draw your pistol. Multiple opponents are another 'plus' so if outnumbered you should go straight to a deadly weapon.

But in all cases, it comes down to whatever might happen in court. How the officer is trained will be brought up in the court case, and used as explanation and justification.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 4:53 PM  

"It's hard to penetrate the rib cage, which is why we have them."

That depends greatly the blade shape and delivering a strike with the blade oriented correctly so that its edges don't hang up on bone. A narrower blade is a bit more forgiving of the the blade being turned improperly.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 4:55 PM  

Rolf September 05, 2014 4:23 PM
A four inch long, half-inch deep slash bleeds a lot more than a 3" deep x 3/4" wide stab.



waiting for somebody to bleed out from the extremities is all well and good 1 v 1. 5 v 1, you're just committing suicide if that's your strategy.

Vox's advice is primarily for those of intermediate awareness; ie - they walked into the alley before they were aware they were being followed but realized the threat before the attack.

( assuming he's right handed )
as others have said, the couple should have backed up to the wall with the chick on the guys left .

guy should be right side towards wall to conceal procurement of knife while staring down the chimps and using the left hand to gesture ( distract ) as mob approaches from what had been behind them.

rotate to face mob as the main threat moves towards perpendicular from the wall, while still trying to maintain concealment on the right hand until it becomes necessary to engage.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 5:02 PM  

NH,

You shoot until the threat has stopped, simple as that.

And in this case that was very likely to be one or two shots and then the youths would have been running away.

Running away=threat stopped; don’t shoot them in the back.

If they keep attacking, you keep shooting.

Here is the thing, if a group like that attacks you and is willing to die to get you, your F’ed. You’ve watched too many movies if you think otherwise. If they aren’t determined attackers, they will flee at the first shot fired.

Now, what is the legality of shooting all of those men right there?

They would have to keep coming for you to legally “shoot them all” and if they all kept coming you are likely dead, shot with your own gun. Five moving targets, simultaneously attack you with force…”shoot them all”, good luck.

Remember, its self-defense, they have to attack you first, dealing with five men attacking you at once isn’t going to be easy, you better hope they are F’ing around and don’t mean business.

Anonymous rho September 05, 2014 5:03 PM  

That depends greatly the blade shape and delivering a strike with the blade oriented correctly so that its edges don't hang up on bone. A narrower blade is a bit more forgiving of the the blade being turned improperly.

Assuming you don't hit the rib cage directly. Maybe a 50/50 chance of that happening?

It's astonishingly hard to kill a human. Suge Knight has enough lead in him to make a statue commemorating the time he dangled Vanilla Ice off a balcony.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 5:04 PM  

Giraffe September 05, 2014 4:41 PM
No, but sometimes a camera does



you're going to tell the cops about the camera in your own house? herp derp.

the only thing you should be saying is, "there's the body of the asshole who broke into my house and attacked me, please take care of the mess. i'm calling my lawyer now".


Giraffe September 05, 2014 4:41 PM
So there's not such thing as a wrongful death lawsuit?


from his family, possibly.

however, when the only available testimony is YOURS and he's in YOUR HOUSE with evidence of B&E
...
do we actually have to do the paint-by-numbers thing here?

sure, if you're in England the pigs will still prosecute you for shooting someone even given all that.

but there are very, VERY few places ( if any ) in the States where that would apply.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 5:06 PM  

Bugler....sheesh!

Damn my palsied hands!

But you guys have me in stitches!

Love this sight....er, SITE!

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 5:10 PM  

you're going to tell the cops about the camera in your own house? herp derp.

I wrote this in the context of the above video. If they had guns, shot the thugs, and then cleaned up the cripples because dead men don't testify, do you think they would have been aware there was a camera on them? Maybe, but probably not. Murder charges.

I'm not saying don't shoot. I'm saying shoot to stop the threat, not to silence the witnesses.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet September 05, 2014 5:13 PM  

rufusdog, thirdmonkey, daniel

Thank you.

Anonymous Krul September 05, 2014 5:13 PM  

Re: Bugler,

I used to be a bugler, and I'd like to correct a common misconception. The word is not pronounced "byoo-gler", the correct pronunciation rhymes with "smuggler". "Bugle", meaning the instrument and the act of playing said instrument, rhymes with "smuggle". Knowing this can increase your SMV.

It's like shrubbery. You know how a shrubbery salesman is a "shrubber", a person who plays the shrubbery is called a "shrubbler", and the act of playing shrubbery is called "shrubblery"? Same thing.

Anonymous Giraffe September 05, 2014 5:14 PM  

Justice in America, or at least California:

A friend of mine shot a bugler in his (not the bugler's, wiseguys!) home. Bugler lived, sued my friend, won.


The moral of the story: Don't live in California.

But, your friend is still alive, and that "bugler" will be watching where he toots his horn from now on. So there's that.

Anonymous clk September 05, 2014 5:16 PM  

"Wrong.
A cop is not legally justified in using deadly force if he draws his weapon.
Police may use deadly force only if police have "probale cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Tennessee v. Garner. What cops sometimes get away with is another "

Please see what luagha wrote... that is exactly how it is taught.


"You cannot shoot into a crowd in TX if you are irritated. Sources, please. Also on your assertion regarding MA law"... sure you can in texas.. as long as its not from a sissy plastic 9mm gun you are allowed and infact obligated to under texas law ..... provided its a crowd of yankees :)

.." i keepa pitchinn them.. you keepa missin them"

Anonymous patrick kelly September 05, 2014 5:16 PM  

"A cop is not legally justified in using deadly force if he draws his weapon."

I claimed that if a cop has drawn his weapon, he has decided (right or wrong) he is justified in using deadly force. Understand the difference?

If he admits to drawing his weapon when he was not legally justified to use deadly force, he has confessed to a crime in most jurisdictions afaik.

I suppose a cop could decide he doesn't care or know whether he is legally justified in drawing his weapon, but again, if he admits to it......

Anonymous Rodrigo Borgia September 05, 2014 5:17 PM  

Good advice from Vox on the knife thing. In most places you can't carry a handgun.

Serrations are good if you never care for your blade - they take a long long time to go dull.

The Folsom Prison shank stuff is very easy to learn, time tested and extremely difficult to effectively defend against. I've spent hundreds of hours defending knife attacks in training and the simple sewing machine attack is very difficult to stop.

Personally I really like the D3 protection Thumper where knives aren't legal. One shot stopper.

http://d3protection.com/17.html

Anonymous GreyS September 05, 2014 5:19 PM  

But can you imagine the uproar in certain quarters if in the video the gal pulls out her piece and dispassionately plugs one or more right off? Sure, we'd all cheer, but I bet she'd be in jail and the vibrant's family would be living in her house. Still, better than being in the ground, but my handgun instructor always says that you do EVERYTHING you can NOT to file your gun because your life will change forever, and not for the better, if you do.

Yep. The reality of the aftermath is that it had better be very clear cut that you had to shoot them. The way it works now is that you'd pretty much lose your whole life if you don't lose your actual life in the attack. The thing about close-quarter fighting (with knife or without) is that the numbers will matter in your favor as the aftermath unfolds. This is a pretty clear video but even a grainy video will be an asset in defense because all anyone will see is multiple attackers coming in, running out, coming in.

A video of a gun defense will be picked apart by a pro-vibrant prosecutor.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 5:24 PM  

"if he admits to it......"

He gets paid time off followed by a promotion?

Anonymous jay c September 05, 2014 5:27 PM  

I used to be a bugler, and I'd like to correct a common misconception. The word is not pronounced "byoo-gler", the correct pronunciation rhymes with "smuggler". "Bugle", meaning the instrument and the act of playing said instrument, rhymes with "smuggle". Knowing this can increase your SMV.

Hm. I'm not sure saying something that sounds a little too much like "I'm a buggerer" will increase your SMV anywhere but band camp and gay bars.

Anonymous RedJack September 05, 2014 5:27 PM  

First, if you don't want to be eaten, don't act like food.

I have had a few interesting calls that were ended like many here said. Make eye contact and don't act afraid. Most think "That white boy is crazy" and move along.

In other words, it is a predator prey relationship. They go for the weak target.

Anonymous John Bigbooté September 05, 2014 5:31 PM  

Amazing coincidence, but every one of the perps' names was Dindu Nuffin.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 5:32 PM  

Giraffe September 05, 2014 5:10 PM
I wrote this in the context of the above video.



but my response that you quoted was in *direct reply* to a specific question about home defense and allowing the perp to survive.

iow, it's a tangent to Vox's original post.


i've even heard it said that IF you kill a burglar and he falls outside the house, you should drag the body back inside.

i'd be a bit leery of that, though. in a People's Republic, that's likely going to get the prosecutor looking at you for tampering with evidence, at the least.


the "self defense in public" scenario is an entirely different animal and is far more likely to get you prosecuted if you are in one of the various People's Republics scattered around the US and use a gun or knife.

Missouri? i'm pretty sure you're fine.



Giraffe September 05, 2014 5:10 PM
If they had guns, shot the thugs, and then cleaned up the cripples because dead men don't testify, do you think they would have been aware there was a camera on them?



irrelevant. multiple people, including myself have already addressed the specific instance in the video. ie - you don't shoot them in the back but you DO keep shooting as long as they aren't retreating.


i could have sworn that one of the perps in the Goetz case said that Goetz had shot him while he was down. but then, it's not as if i'm shocked that a vibrant would lie.

Goetz was asking for trouble carrying an illegal weapon. that's a big ol shit sandwich no matter what jurisdiction you're in.

Blogger Bike Bubba September 05, 2014 5:36 PM  

You know, I don't know that a clear example of five people attacking two, followed by the two revealing to the five that they are armed, would necessarily get picked apart by a prosecutor. An interesting "tell" in the Ferguson MO case is that the DOJ has revealed not a case against the officer, but rather an investigation into "bias" of the department.

In other words, even Eric Holder may be capable of comprehending the fact that the coroner's report and other evidence suggest that the deceased chose a fight very, very foolishly. We'll see if that holds, but it's an interesting early sign.

Blogger Unknown September 05, 2014 5:42 PM  

Love this thread!

What about instead of carrying a knife you carried one of these.

https://www.google.com/search?q=awl+images&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS453US495&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=799&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_i0KVIHcDpKpogTVvYLQAQ&ved=0CCwQsAQ

Legal everywhere and lethal?

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 5:42 PM  

Krul September 05, 2014 5:13 PM
I used to be a bugler, and I'd like to correct a common misconception. The word is not pronounced "byoo-gler", the correct pronunciation rhymes with "smuggler".



clearly, this is related to buttling.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/buttle?q=buttling

blowing horns, polishing brass and servicing masters, you guys are all the same.

Anonymous p-dawg September 05, 2014 5:50 PM  

I recommend this knife.
If you can find a trench knife from WWI that would work, but they're not legal in most areas. Those are sometimes known as push-knives. They are meant for stabbing and for creating a complicated wound. You're not likely to harm yourself with them, but as with anything else, perfect practice makes perfect.

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 5:51 PM  

I may be an atheist, but Bernard Goetz is a saint.

- Noodles

Anonymous bob k. mando September 05, 2014 5:52 PM  

Jon Bromfield September 05, 2014 5:42 PM
What about instead of carrying a knife you carried one of these.



if legal, a knife is a far better tool for the job.

the problem with an awl is, have you ever seen a holster for one? no? how are you going to carry it without stabbing the hell out of yourself all the time?

an awl would be better than nothing. but there are lots of 'found weapons' that could be used in that case. a fork or keys, for instance. you notice that curb in the right side of the video?

grab a perp by the neck / throat, pivot him over your hip and smash him skull first into that concrete edge.

you may not split his skull wide open, but you've got a damn good chance of killing him outright just from that. he's certainly out of the fight and going to the hospital once the wahmbulance gets there.


that's the thing, in a modern society you're almost never more than a couple of steps from something that COULD BE used as a weapon. most people just don't think about using available tools.

Anonymous VD September 05, 2014 5:52 PM  

This is not true. At least from my experience, which is almost exactly like the video on several occasions, you still get your ass beat. They're in a group, and they know they can overpower you even if you fight back.

I suspect if they pull the "watchoo lookin' at" routine and you tell them: "I'm just wondering which one of you is going to be my Trayvon", they're not going to try anything.

But I wouldn't recommend it if you aren't carrying at least a .40.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 5:55 PM  

Glock 9mm > .40

Anonymous Anonymous September 05, 2014 5:59 PM  

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

True words.

- Noodles

Anonymous PA September 05, 2014 6:01 PM  

in a modern society you're almost never more than a couple of steps from something that COULD BE used as a weapon

As I said at the beginning of the thread, a simple cark key held between your thumb and forefinger can be jabbed into the assailant's face, taking him out.

You aren't always going to be carrying a knife, an awl, a Glock, a plus 4 damage battle axe, or a pair on nunchaks. But you always carry a pair of car keys with you. As soon as situational awareness tells you to get ready, you discreetly take your tiny, invisible in the dark keys and be ready to strike.

Anonymous Laz September 05, 2014 6:01 PM  

"Glock 9mm > .40"

I know Nate was waiting for this one.

Anonymous Noah B. September 05, 2014 6:04 PM  

The recoil is just so much more manageable. A .40 is way too much.

With a Glock 9mm you don't even have to put down your iPhone.

Facebook status: Shooting People

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 05, 2014 6:07 PM  

In that sense, just having a pistol visible makes the whole thing go away.

For God's sake consult an attorney regarding relevant case law before you start to carry.

True story. A woman has had a rough divorce but now has a new man. Old husband is Omega Male obsessed with her. Calls during the middle of the night. Shows up at her work place and tries to see her there. Gets run off by the cops for hanging around her car.

There is a restraining order against him

Finally shows up at their home and looks in through the window. New Man runs out of the house with a drawn pistol. Guess who is in the hotel with stripped sunlight courtesy of the county with a felony assault conviction for Brandishing?!?

True story. The woman was left to fend for herself against an obsessed Omega. While her man rotted in jail, unable to legally touch a firearm ever again.

The loud mouth at the Arlen Gun Club and Bait Shop is not a lawyer, don't listen to that idiot.

The reason that George Zimmerman is a free man is because he didn't brandish.

The litmus test is "in fear for your life." That is what your lawyer will have to sell.

Anonymous Laz September 05, 2014 6:07 PM  

Speaking of Bernie Goetz, I'm sure glad that I live in a state where they can't bring a civil suit if you're cleared of the charges.

Blogger subject by design September 05, 2014 6:13 PM  

Remember, its self-defense, they have to attack you first

Not technically correct. You don't have to be attacked, you must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent threat of serious bodily harm. Circumstances dictate the reasonableness of your belief. As a woman, if 5 vibrants surround me in an alley, it is reasonable for me to assume they pose an imminent threat to me and I could very easily make a case for why I had to start shooting. Overwhelming force means I can't wait for them to actually attack me. It gets technical and, of course, you have to convince a jury.

Anonymous Laz September 05, 2014 6:13 PM  

"Guess who is in the hotel with stripped sunlight courtesy of the county with a felony assault conviction for Brandishing?!? "

Threat of justifiable Force all depends on your specific state law.

Anonymous Clayton Bigsby September 05, 2014 6:13 PM  

“Remember, most blacks are even more frightened of whites than whites are scared of blacks because they have been raised on scary stories about white racism and oppression since they were small. Use the fear.”

1950’s advice doesn’t cut it for the 21st century.


“Never ignore groups of vibrants, especially not at night, and not when they are approaching from behind you.”

Sound advice if you are alone and in an area where crime is more likely to occur. Except...it’s niggers and spics. Get the language right or don’t comment on such matters. I suppose one's “Christian” sensibilities refrain people from using the proper verbiage.


“If you whirl around, aggressively meet their eyes and stand there in silence watching them, they will usually slink off in search of less dangerous prey.”

Unless you have a “rod” and/or have the personality to engage in such conduct, the best advice is to simply walk in a straight line with your eyes looking ahead. It is distinctly more probable that they will leave you alone. The statistics bear it out…hundreds of thousands of interactions per day between people of different races in an urban area, chiefly the downtown of a city, result in NON-CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.


“Get the blade out, keep your hand out of sight as the first attacker comes in, stay low, drive in with your left shoulder, rear hand in and up, and the attacker should be out of commission before he even knows you're armed.”

“Excellent advice.” For individuals who have been properly trained and executed such tactics in the field of battle, absolutely. For the 58 year-old-overweight white man who is scared of his own shadow, or the 32 year-old banister from Connecticut, no, it’s shit advice.

Men are generally betas, right?


“Vibrants tend to be cowardly.”

“Blacks fight in groups because they are cowards one-on-one.”

I suggest you go to South Central or the Bronx or the south side of Chicago for a re-education regarding their alleged cowardice.


“The pressure of an additional participant likely prevented the attackers from focusing solely on the single target for maximal damage.”

For this PARTICULAR group of youngsters. It is also likely that the person going all White Knight would enrage the attackers further and would get summarily pummeled.


"Why don't the Blacks in Boston cause trouble like the ones in St Louis or LA? Because they know from experience the Irish will hunt them down and kill them.”

Not quite. It’s because on average young blacks there leave white people alone. It’s the degenerates of the group—the minority—that engage in the curb stomping or drug pushing or raping or murdering or…

Anonymous BoysMom September 05, 2014 6:18 PM  

If you're a lady who wears a hat, I'd suggest wearing a hatpin (I don't know that men can get away with them). They don't register as 'weapon' to anyone. I haven't tested it at the courthouse yet, and I don't fly, but the post office doesn't notice.

I could use some Ilk advice: I've got a Church acquaintance I need to talk to who accidentally discharged his concealed carry piece into his foot a few days ago. He's one of our few men who volunteers with the Church kids (the teenagers, mostly), and because I didn't say no fast enough (Methodists) I'm in charge of the children's education committee. Makes a great object lesson for the kids on how not to, (round in the chamber, gun in the pocket, safety off or got bumped off, trigger snagged on something) but we were all surprised because really, of all people, he should have known better. I just want to be sure he'll have it secure in the future, because now the kids all know about it (front page of the paper two days running, top story on local news broadcasts), and in a group kids can be profoundly stupid.

Blogger jdwalker September 05, 2014 6:20 PM  

"To that point, let's congratulate the birth of two new race realists. Happy Birthday, you two!"

Not likely: http://www.ky3.com/news/local/new-video-assault-victim-speaks-out/21048998_27887998

Some people just refuse to learn.

Blogger Danby September 05, 2014 6:20 PM  

Dude, know your stereotypes. Blacks beat people. French Canadians stab them. Irish don't mind a fight, but if you take it too far, they will hunt you down and kill you. Italians send their mentally-challenged cousins.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 05, 2014 6:20 PM  

So long as we are starting this one again. Don't bother with .40. Those calibers are almost always built on a 9mm frame that have been scaled up. They don't seem to last very long.

It also negates the principle advantages of the 9mm namely magazine capacity and target tracking. Cops like .40 but they have a different tactical environment than either civilian or military. And they don't have to buy their own pistols.

If you are stuck in a liberal hell pit with magazine restrictions and can actually get a CPL. Go big, .45 or .357. Your choice good luck.

Other than that 9mm is the best all arounder.

Never forget, your pistol is only useful for fighting your way back to where ever you left your rifle.

Anonymous Salt September 05, 2014 6:22 PM  

BoysMom, it's called a holster.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 05, 2014 6:22 PM  

Threat of justifiable Force all depends on your specific state law.

All the more reason to consult a lawyer.

Blogger Hamilton September 05, 2014 6:24 PM  

I've done the same and things got verbal. Might have looked a little to hard. But verbal is better than a fight. When the potential attackers started yelling like monkeys I said nothing but didn't break eye contact. My expression was truly fearless because both times I was wearing a concealed Karh with a spare magazine.

Anonymous Salt September 05, 2014 6:26 PM  

BoysMom, it's called a holster.

Anonymous DrRansom September 05, 2014 6:31 PM  

Just as a for what it's worth, the defensive knife class I took was from InSights , with Greg Hamilton instructing. I've also "fought" for years in the SCA, including boffer-dagger (red paint) with fencing masks. A four inch long, half-inch deep slash bleeds a lot more than a 3" deep x 3/4" wide stab. Multiple slashs bleed faster.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Making generalizations about slashes bleeding more than puncture wounds is not only obviously false (depends on where the injury is placed), but kind of retarded - the kind of thing taught by someone who runs a "defensive" combatives class. Here's a hint - successful combatives are never defensive. It's simply a matter of determining the threshold of when you go on offense. Going on defense, losing your reactionary gap, waiting to see what happens, all great ways to get mauled or killed.

Further, "fighting" with things like boffer-daggers are not very good barometers or training for real blade combat, for the simple reason that you're not afraid of them. They're soft and you have padding on them, which will change your decision-making and risk-taking structures by an incredible amount - you will attempt and do things when playing with those toys that you'd never do when faced with even an aluminum or steel trainer, let alone a real blade.

FWIW, we call those "tactical dildos".

Blogger Hamilton September 05, 2014 6:35 PM  

Hard to attack a guy driving in a frigging truck. Walking around might have worked.

Blogger Hamilton September 05, 2014 6:40 PM  

For the same reason I never carry any guns that I have had modified in any way, especially the trigger. The prosecution would love for you to explain the thought process behind your decision to install a "hair trigger."

Blogger Glen Filthie September 05, 2014 6:42 PM  

Bravo, Vox.

As for you blacks - stuff like this is why we hate you - and often why we kill you.

1 – 200 of 295 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts