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Wednesday, December 17, 2014

Deutschland gegen Islam

The German and international media is going to have no more success disqualifying PEGIDA than the UK media has had in disqualifying UKIP or the French media has had in disqualifying National Front:
Its members have been dubbed the “pinstriped Nazis” and they refer to their demonstrations as “evening strolls” through German cities. But on Monday night, an estimated 15,000 people joined Pegida, or Patriotic Europeans Against Islamisation of the West, in a march through Dresden carrying banners bearing slogans such as “Zero tolerance towards criminal asylum seekers”, “Protect our homeland” and “Stop the Islamisation”.

Lutz Bachmann, the head of Pegida, a nascent anti-foreigner campaign group, led the crowds, either waving or draped in German flags, in barking chants of “Wir sind das Volk”, or “We are the people”, the slogan adopted by protesters in the historic “Monday demonstrations” against the East German government in the runup to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Associating themselves with the freedom demonstrations has given Pegida protests an air of moral respectability even though there are hundreds of rightwing extremists in their midst, as well as established groups of hooligans who are known to the police, according to Germany’s federal office for the protection of the constitution.

“The instigators are unmistakably rightwing extremists,” a federal spokesman said.

It was the ninth week in a row that Pegida had taken its protest on to the city’s streets in the eastern German state of Saxony.

Its first march, advertised on Facebook and other social media, attracted just 200 supporters. By last week the figure had risen to 10,000. By Monday night it had grown to an estimated 15,000.
Nine weeks to go from 200 to 15,000. At that rate, by the middle of next year they'll be on the verge of throwing the traitoress Merkel out on her fat ass. Once the first anti-immigrant party takes power and people see how much better things are with the Third World flow going the proper way, the other electorates will rapidly follow suit.

That's why you've got the English media freaking out about the rise of anti-immigrant parties in France, Germany and Sweden. Christendom will rise again. It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader. Christianity doesn't need numbers. It just needs the faith of a mustard seed.

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136 Comments:

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 12:48 PM  

"Christendom will rise again. It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader"

It has seen its best days....by centuries. That said, it's incorrect to call any western country "anti-christian" as we here so often. Christianity is alive, well, rich and well ensconced. It's just that it doesn't have real political power anymore for any number of good reasons.

Anonymous joe doakes December 17, 2014 12:54 PM  

Hooligans? What kind of bad acts are talking about: burning cars in the banlieue, beheading soldiers on city streets, or slaughtering schoolchildren? Or is their crime one of failing to genuflect to suicidal political correctness?

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2014 12:55 PM  

> It has seen its best days....by centuries

Keep telling yourself that, Carol. I'm sure it gives you comfort on those dark, lonely nights.

Anonymous Severian December 17, 2014 12:57 PM  

"Rightwing extremists," eh? Well that's interesting. I wonder if they've thought this one through. If it's "rightwing" to be in favor of immigration restriction -- or, more basically, to be loyal to one's country -- then by definition it's "leftwing" to be....?

In trying to demonize their opponents, they've basically made their own position synonymous with "treason." How long will it be before that comes around to bite them?

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 1:01 PM  

"It has seen its best days....by centuries . . . It's just that it doesn't have real political power anymore . . "

That's good ... these are not 'political' problems ...

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 1:02 PM  

"Keep telling yourself that, Carol. I'm sure it gives you comfort on those dark, lonely nights."

I'm not bashing christianity. I'm just saying...it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 1:07 PM  

" . . . it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs."

You need to explain this, I think.

Anonymous DrTorch December 17, 2014 1:08 PM  

Christendom will rise again

I assume you mean in the West, and I hope you're right. But in the US the churches are embracing the invasion. They are begging to be run over.

Anonymous Quartermaster December 17, 2014 1:10 PM  

Carol, methinks you need to get out more. The anti-Christian uprising we see among the queers and feminazis in the US argues otherwise. When you are doing your best to kill something with fire it's obvious you fear it. Their true father fears it to the core of his being.

Blogger grendel December 17, 2014 1:16 PM  

The reformation began the shift of Christendom into 4GW. True the RC church lost a modicum of control, but that's not a bad thing. They are a failed state, bloated and corrupt. Printing technology put a bible in the hand of anyone who wanted one, and there's no going back. Christendom lives in millions of hearts. Hearts which know that though the denominations can betray their sacred trust by endorsing every kind of evil, our true King will never betray us. Christ is our shepherd, and he can not be struck, therefore His sheep cannot be scattered.

Anonymous zen0 December 17, 2014 1:20 PM  

It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader

To be fair, we must recall, that this was expected by Jesus, who told them(in Mark 14) this would happen in order to fulfill Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn my hand upon the little ones.

They all affirmed they would die first, when told this, but it was ordained.

Recall also, they had not yet received the Holy Spirit, and were unaware that the Kingdom was to be a spiritual one.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 17, 2014 1:24 PM  

Very interesting to see these marches in Dresden, given some of the history involved. One would expect the former Ossies to be less nationalistic, but it appears the exact opposite is the fact.

Perhaps people who were young when the DDR collapsed can see long term issues more clearly than those who grew up in the West?

Or maybe seeing 200 people marching in favor of the Volk had a resonance in the East with those who got up on the Wall back in 1991. The numbers don't lie.

It would be grand to see Mrs. Boobs, er, the elected leader of Germany that is, tossed out of office. But I'd settle for now with a Lander election going native.

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2014 1:26 PM  

> I'm just saying...it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs.

An we're just say: No, it hasn't.

Anonymous Corvinus December 17, 2014 1:31 PM  

Christendom will rise again. It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader. Christianity doesn't need numbers. It just needs the faith of a mustard seed.

+1

Anonymous Alexander December 17, 2014 1:33 PM  

The great thing about this goes over most people's heads, but any snide remark hinting that Germans have no right to 1) free speech 2) protesting national policy or 3) national sovereignty, because Holocaust...

... misses the fact that the vast majority of these immigrants are Turks. I think the Greeks and Armenians might have a word or two to say about letting in large amounts of that particular tribe into your territory.

Anonymous Corvinus December 17, 2014 1:34 PM  

It's just that it doesn't have real political power anymore for any number of good reasons.

@Carol Martin
Yeah, "good reasons" such as phaggit marriage. I gotcha.

Anonymous daddynichol December 17, 2014 1:37 PM  

I eagerly await the face to face confrontation between the 3rd worlders and the Pegida with the German authorities in between . Fun times, indeed.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 1:38 PM  

I'm just saying...it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs.

Depends on how you're using worldly.

Blogger benedictsanctus December 17, 2014 1:40 PM  

"Printing technology put a bible in the hand of anyone who wanted one, and there's no going back."

The reformation actually made everyone a little pope, able to interpret the Scriptures for themselves, thus we see the confusion in doctrine and interpretation that we do today. I would even go so far as to say that it sowed the seeds of moral relativism (if the Word of God is open to private interpretation, then why not morality?)

Anonymous Sensei December 17, 2014 1:42 PM  

I'm just saying...it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs.

Beijing regards the (rapidly growing) church in China as a threat to the state and has started closing churches.
Various nations in Africa make laws based on the Bible.
Putin has assiduously courted the Russian Orthodox Church.
The Pope is in the news every day.

One wonders what you mean by "worldly affairs." Of course, if by "world" you mean "the post-christian world," then yes, things will appear to be on the decline.

(But even in the West, there's the beginnings of some revival happening in Europe.. apparently a culture can go so post-christian they eventually get tired of it and start coming back around. Good stuff happening in France and even Sweden)

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 17, 2014 1:44 PM  

Very interesting to see these marches in Dresden, given some of the history involved. One would expect the former Ossies to be less nationalistic, but it appears the exact opposite is the fact.

Perhaps people who were young when the DDR collapsed can see long term issues more clearly than those who grew up in the West?

Or maybe seeing 200 people marching in favor of the Volk had a resonance in the East with those who got up on the Wall back in 1991. The numbers don't lie.

It would be grand to see Mrs. Boobs, er, the elected leader of Germany that is, tossed out of office. But I'd settle for now with a Lander election going native.

Anonymous ZhukovG December 17, 2014 1:46 PM  

I know I am asking a lot of the ilk, but could we just this once discuss the desirable resurrection of Christendom in Europe without an off topic replay of the Wars of Religion.

All Christians, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox, should be praying for revival in Europe. Europe is where the battle for the West will be won or lost, not the USA.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 17, 2014 1:47 PM  

Oops, wrong buffer.

Ilkoids, snapping at the bait cast into this pond by someone obviously trolling for flames may not be the most productive pastime.

And it would be grand if this did not degenerate into yet another "Rome or Die" thread.

Are these requests too much to ask?

Blogger JCclimber December 17, 2014 1:51 PM  

" . . . it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs."

For which I humbly thank God every single day. They are called the "Dark Ages" because the Roman Catholic Church made it illegal to own a Bible, robbing the common people of the Light. Hence, the name Dark.

Of course, they didn't enforce the ban themselves, they used their power over the secular rulers to make sure what they said was done, at least until Luther and other giants of faith came along and challenged that monopoly of power.

But given the prophecies of Revelation and Daniel, I am certain that the RCC will rise to worldwide power again, and will make sure their will is enforced as it once was.

For the good of everyone, for the children, for morality, for Vicarius Filiis Dei.

Blogger Chiva December 17, 2014 1:51 PM  

"All Christians, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox, should be praying for revival in Europe"

I very much agree.

Blogger JCclimber December 17, 2014 1:55 PM  

Reading that article the other day, I immediately noticed the DISQUALIFY heavily laced throughout, in every paragraph.

Hooligans. Far right extremists. By the way, how come they didn't point out any of the myriad of crimes that these hooligans are committing during these protest marches? I mean, if they have hundreds of hooligans in their midst, there must be acts of violence and mayhem, otherwise why mention them at all?

They are getting desperate.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 1:59 PM  

The reformation actually made everyone a little pope, able to interpret the Scriptures for themselves, thus we see the confusion in doctrine and interpretation that we do today. I would even go so far as to say that it sowed the seeds of moral relativism (if the Word of God is open to private interpretation, then why not morality?)

You're wrong. Shut up.

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 2:00 PM  

"Carol, methinks you need to get out more. The anti-Christian uprising we see among the queers and feminazis in the US argues otherwise."

Someone choosing not to embrace or believe Christian doctrine and someone opposing government promotion of christian doctrine isn't "anti-christian" any more than someone who does not embrace muslim theology or government support for muslim doctrine is anti-muslim.

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 2:04 PM  

"It's just that it doesn't have real political power anymore for any number of good reasons.

@Carol Martin
Yeah, "good reasons" such as phaggit marriage. I gotcha."

"Phaggit Marriage" is a result of christianity not having real political power, not the reason it doesn't have real political power.

Anonymous ZhukovG December 17, 2014 2:14 PM  

It’s good to see the German people growing a backbone again.

The tone of the article makes it clear that the European Unionists and other assorted Progressives are a bit shocked by the unexpected level of opposition to their program.

I also noted is some pictures of the demonstration some Christian crosses being displayed. Though I doubt most of the crowd has more than a vestigial connection to their ancestral faith, one has to start somewhere.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 2:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 2:16 PM  

" . . . not having real political power."

Hence my earlier comment and request for a more detailed explanation i.e. support for your assertions.

I could be mis-reading the post, but I think Vox's point: "It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader. Christianity doesn't need numbers. It just needs the faith of a mustard seed." is not about wielding political power and influence. I don't think the 11 frightened,cowardly men wielded a tremendous amount of 'political' influence.

Christians might find themselves dragged before the political authorities of their day, but that is far cry from trying to wield 'political influence' as your termed it. I think Vox and several others have a little more insight into where the battles are ultimately going to be fought and won.

Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer. (II Timothy)

Oh ... and please elaborate on your first point ... thanks!!

Anonymous kbroge December 17, 2014 2:18 PM  

I'm not bashing christianity. I'm just saying...it's seen its heyday in terms of influence in worldly affairs.

--We should be so lucky!

--Last time I checked, there were 50-60 million American evangelicals who:

a) push enormous political power, financial support and rhetorical cover to the Israelis,

b) while electing Republicans who support immivasion, off-shore American industrial power, and let the richest 5% of the country rape the middle class

(potayto/potahto: you're allowed to vote Democrat, if you'd rather see the bottom 20% of the country financially rape the middle class),

c) Oh, and--did you notice how the current "vicar of Christ" has been exhorting Europeans to welcome foreigners in, now that they're not reproducing so much?

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pope-francis-accept-immigrants-jobs/2014/11/25/id/609405/

Long story short: the remaining "worldly" power that Christianity exerts in the West is--to put it mildly-- a disaster for the West.

I'm very happy--grateful, even--that the German resistance is emerging in national/racial/civilizational terms, rather than in religious ones.

Anonymous Jamsco December 17, 2014 2:19 PM  

" At that rate, by the middle of next year they'll be on the verge of throwing the traitoress Merkel out"

I did the math. At this rate, by May all of the people in Germany (including the Islamics and Merkel) will be a part of this organization (plus an imported 30 million nonGermans).

I hope that helps!

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 2:25 PM  

"Christians might find themselves dragged before the political authorities of their day, but that is far cry from trying to wield 'political influence' as your termed it. I think Vox and several others have a little more insight into where the battles are ultimately going to be fought and won."

There's no hauling of Christians anywhere in the West, let alone in the U.S. However, the history of the christian community working night and day to install their unique principles into law and attempting to force their principles to govern how others act with the force of law is long and storied.

Religion has been a very active force in politics and the affairs of men. The power of Christianity here on earth is literally defined by the the degree to which Christianity and its principles and quirks are written into law.

My point is that those days are largely over and we certainly will never see the Christian ideology wield the kind of power here that it once did.

Blogger Sean Carnegie December 17, 2014 2:29 PM  

It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader. Christianity doesn't need numbers. It just needs the faith of a mustard seed.

This may be one of the most profound things I've read on this blog in the 3 years or so I've been reading.

Anonymous Cail Corishev December 17, 2014 2:32 PM  

It has seen its best days....by centuries. That said, it's incorrect to call any western country "anti-christian" as we here so often. Christianity is alive, well, rich and well ensconced. It's just that it doesn't have real political power anymore for any number of good reasons.

It's been a while since I've seen that many incorrect statements packed into such a short paragraph. Even the parts that sound like compliments are wrong. Impressive.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 17, 2014 2:36 PM  

Reading that article the other day, I immediately noticed the DISQUALIFY heavily laced throughout, in every paragraph.

Hooligans. Far right extremists. By the way, how come they didn't point out any of the myriad of crimes that these hooligans are committing during these protest marches? I mean, if they have hundreds of hooligans in their midst, there must be acts of violence and mayhem, otherwise why mention them at all?


It will be interesting to see if something like that occurs in the future. Say, some newcomers to the march that no one knows decide to burn a car in a prominent platz. Not that any security forces in Europe or elsewhere have ever attempted to discredit a movement by inserting agents into it to commit crimes, oh, no.

Blogger Krul December 17, 2014 2:37 PM  

Associating themselves with the freedom demonstrations has given Pegida protests an air of moral respectability even though there are hundreds of rightwing extremists in their midst

Mainstream media today uses the phrase "rightwing extremist" with the same casual contempt that once accompanied words like "communist" back in the '50s.

In the coming decades, I expect the essential policies and assumptions of so-called "rightwing extremism" to become the default mainstream positions in the West, just as de facto leftwing extremism went from fringe to mainstream in the latter half of the 20th century.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 2:39 PM  

I did the math. At this rate, by May all of the people in Germany (including the Islamics and Merkel) will be a part of this organization (plus an imported 30 million nonGermans).

I hope that helps!


You win the internets today, my friend.

Blogger benedictsanctus December 17, 2014 2:39 PM  

@ ZhukovG, A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents, and others

That's cool. I'm Roman Catholic, and when I read unflattering remarks made about that which I love, I feel the urge to step up in her defense.

@ Sean Carnegie
"This may be one of the most profound things I've read on this blog in the 3 years or so I've been reading."

I wholeheartedly agree.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 2:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 2:40 PM  

"The power of Christianity here on earth is literally defined by the the degree to which Christianity and its principles and quirks are written into law."

You're joking, right? I think it's defined, in part, by the degree its adherents are willing to imitate the faith and follow in the footsteps of the aforementioned 11 men (among countless others) and who are committed to living lives that are valiant for and faithful to the Truth. Oh, and there is also this: Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit ....

Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum December 17, 2014 2:43 PM  

For which I humbly thank God every single day. They are called the "Dark Ages" because the Roman Catholic Church made it illegal to own a Bible, robbing the common people of the Light

You realize that those Bibles were copied by hand and were therefore incredibly expensive, right?

If there was just one copy of Sacred Scriptures in town, and the nearest other copy was 100 miles away, and you could only get to it at as fast as a horse could run, and there were robbers and bandits along that road to that other copy, and there was a severely limited amount of paper, parchment, or papyrus around to make another copy, you're damn right that the local Ecclesiastical Authority will make it illegal for just anyone to own it.

The Word of Almighty God doesn't belong to just those who can afford to buy a copy of it. It doesn't belong to you, or me, or anyone else. It belongs to the Church that compiled it, and only She has the right to interpret it.

Don't put your 21st century conditions onto 5th century people.

You're wrong. Shut up.

The Reformation DID make everyone their own Pope. You can deny it all you want, it doesn't change the fact that one person within Protestantism can come up with a totally ahistorical and unorthodox view from their own personal reading of Scripture, and there is no one authority that everyone can agree to follow that can tell them otherwise.

Anonymous Peter Blood December 17, 2014 2:47 PM  

Vox, I do like the cut of your jib.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 17, 2014 2:49 PM  


That's cool. I'm Roman Catholic, and when I read unflattering remarks made about that which I love, I feel the urge to step up in her defense.


Clearly others feel the same way on the other side of the intra-Christian divide. So we get tit for tat for tit for tat for tit for tat here until the original topic is buried under a landslide of "is not!" "is so!".

Is refighting the 30 years war really a good idea? Seriously? No other issues of higher priority?

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 2:50 PM  

"Oh, and there is also this: Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit ...."

That's doctrine....not reality. I'm talking about practical impact and power, not personal faith.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper December 17, 2014 2:54 PM  

A quibble, this isn't Christendom rising but something much older. Europa . Europa is rising. And not a moment too soon.

Blogger Krul December 17, 2014 2:55 PM  

They are called the "Dark Ages" because the Roman Catholic Church made it illegal to own a Bible, robbing the common people of the Light.

Is it really true that the RCC made it illegal to own a Bible in the Middle Ages? I've heard this before, but never seen a source for the claim.

Anonymous DrTorch December 17, 2014 2:57 PM  

it doesn't change the fact that one person within Protestantism can come up with a totally ahistorical and unorthodox view from their own personal reading of Scripture

True. But it's worse when the centralized Pope does it, and RC history, and current events, provide plenty of examples of that.

Oh, and since RC parishioners do the same thing, along w/ RC universities, you lose even that bit of the platform.

So Josh was giving you a loving bit of advice.

Blogger JartStar December 17, 2014 2:58 PM  

That's doctrine....not reality. I'm talking about practical impact and power, not personal faith.

Paging Dr. Circular Reasoning...

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 2:58 PM  

"That's doctrine....not reality."

The doctrine defines, reveals and reflects reality.

" . . .practical impact and power."

Yeah, nothing practical or powerful demonstrated at all by the aforementioned 11 men or their 'personal' faith.

Blogger Chris Mallory December 17, 2014 3:00 PM  

"Jesus Christ DID make everyone their own Pope"
FIFY

Christians are told to come boldly before the Throne of God, not to kneel before a pervert in a black suit.
The Church is built upon the knowledge that Jesus Christ is "... the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
We only have one priest, Jesus Christ. The earthly priesthood was ended when the Temple Veil was torn.

Anonymous Quartermaster December 17, 2014 3:02 PM  

Chris, Peter disagreed with you. All believers are priests. I think he would be surprised if some one told him that he was the first Bishop of Rome, however. The only time he got to Rome was when Nero brought him there to kill him.

Anonymous paleopaleo December 17, 2014 3:10 PM  

Amen Vox, preach it brother!

Blogger benedictsanctus December 17, 2014 3:11 PM  

@ A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents,

I get what you're saying about the tit-for-tat; it ends up being a waste of time in the end when it's all about winning and not exploring the truth; I was just saying why I jumped in there in the first place.

However, if you are going to talk about Christendom rising again, then I don't see how you can avoid these inter-Christian sect arguments. They have never been resolved, and a just "live-and-let-live attitude" has existed since then. I am of the opinion that Christendom fracturing into so many different denominations, sect, traditions (what have you) set us on the path to where we are at today.

You and others have expressed that you want this thread to focus on what is going on in Europe; I was just saying "ok, I see your point, and I'll respect that." I was just letting you know why I jumped in in the first place.

Anonymous Cail Corishev December 17, 2014 3:19 PM  

Is it really true that the RCC made it illegal to own a Bible in the Middle Ages?

Not that I'm aware of, but it's hard to prove a negative. I'm sure if it's true, the person who made the claim will be along to back it up.

He may be thinking of the fact that the Church, for a long time, didn't authorize translations into languages other than Latin. There were (are) good reasons for that, but obviously it made it harder for non-scholars to do at-home bible study.

Anyway, as a Catholic who believes in the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (No Salvation Outside the Church), I welcome the efforts of my separated Protestant brethren to resist the infidel hordes, and reject attempts by trolls to make us fight amongst ourselves.

Anonymous Roundtine December 17, 2014 3:22 PM  

My hope is with UKIP, because it's the only foreign nation with real influence on the U.S. If they win big, GOP idiots might wake up.

Blogger JCclimber December 17, 2014 3:25 PM  

They are called the "Dark Ages" because the Roman Catholic Church made it illegal to own a Bible, robbing the common people of the Light.

Is it really true that the RCC made it illegal to own a Bible in the Middle Ages? I've heard this before, but never seen a source for the claim.

I'd suggest looking up the Waldenses and Huguenots history. Even the heavily cleaned up version of their histories shows the blood letting.

I see someone up above trying to justify the death sentence for copying, by hand, some of the scriptures and having it on your possession or in your home. Because scarcity or something. Sorry buddy, the RCC did not write nor assemble the Bible.

Also, look up the history of John Wycliffe.
Jan Hus.
William Tyndale.

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 3:26 PM  

"Yeah, nothing practical or powerful demonstrated at all by the aforementioned 11 men or their 'personal' faith."

And despite all that "power" of the 11, the worldly power of Christianity has continued to decline. If this wasn't the case, no one would be talking about a revival.

Anonymous Anonymous December 17, 2014 3:29 PM  

How "Nazi" is Pegida actually? Like "racist" being thrown around indiscriminately, it loses its meaning when every person or movement must be "Nazi" if it doesn't fall in line with Progressive/corporacratic aims.

Regards,
David Smith

Blogger JCclimber December 17, 2014 3:30 PM  

Don't worry Cail, the mainstream Protestant denominations are jumping all over themselves to reunite with the Mother Church.
You see, the reformation was all just a big misunderstanding, a little tiff amongst brothers. We shouldn't let little things like doctrine and sola scriptura get in the way of POWER, POWER, and MOAR POWER to make sure that the tide of Islam is turned back, abortion is finally condemned, and adultery and marriage are restored to biblical standards.

Because that's they way Jesus would do it. He was all about seizing earthly political power, amassing fortunes, and making sure everyone conformed to His teachings.

Anonymous Stilicho December 17, 2014 3:30 PM  

The Word of Almighty God doesn't belong to just those who can afford to buy a copy of it.
True.

It doesn't belong to you, or me, or anyone else. It belongs to the Church that compiled it, and only She has the right to interpret it.

If there was just one copy of Sacred Scriptures in town, and the nearest other copy was 100 miles away, and you could only get to it at as fast as a horse could run, and there were robbers and bandits along that road to that other copy, and there was a severely limited amount of paper, parchment, or papyrus around to make another copy, you're damn right that the local Ecclesiastical Authority will make it illegal for just anyone to own it.

Nonsense, you don't make scripture available to everyone by restricting ownership of copies anymore than you form a government on the basis of strange women lying in ponds distributing swords. You would have had a valid argument if you claimed that the RCC restricted ownership because it wanted to control the content and make sure that copies were accurate lest any heresies creep in through bad scribing or translation. Markku likes to point out some of those from time to time (from the koine greek IIRC).
False. It is referred to as God's word for a reason. Note the placement of the apostrophe.




Anonymous Big Bill December 17, 2014 3:31 PM  

"Lutz Bachmann, the head of Pegida, a nascent anti-foreigner campaign group, led the crowds, either waving or draped in German flags, in barking chants of “Wir sind das Volk”, or “We are the people”, the slogan adopted by protesters in the historic “Monday demonstrations” against the East German government in the runup to the fall of the Berlin Wall."

"We are the People"! I like that!

When the MSM publishes articles about "America getting dumber" my response will be "The 'New Americans' are dumb (and dumber). But 'We are the People' and we put men on the moon with slide rules and crew cuts in less than a decade."

And now I am off to order my "We are the People" sweatshirt!

Anonymous Stilicho December 17, 2014 3:32 PM  

Oops, lost part of my comment

It doesn't belong to you, or me, or anyone else. It belongs to the Church that compiled it, and only She has the right to interpret it.

False. It is referred to as God's word for a reason.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 3:34 PM  

But 'We are the People' and we put men on the moon with slide rules and crew cuts in less than a decade."

Ah hell...

Blogger J Curtis December 17, 2014 3:35 PM  

How in the hell did they determine that demonstraors were 'right wing'? Did they quiz them on monetary policy, comparative economic systems and reducing the size of government?

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2014 3:40 PM  

> Someone choosing not to embrace or believe Christian doctrine and someone opposing government promotion of christian doctrine isn't "anti-christian"

No, but they are non-Christian. So what makes them competent to comment on Christian matters?

> There's no hauling of Christians anywhere in the West, let alone in the U.S.

Sure there isn't Carol. We can read the news. Apparently you can't.

Blogger Beefy Levinson December 17, 2014 3:40 PM  

The American RCC hierarchy welcomes invasion as a constant influx of Catholic Mexicans props up their sagging attendance numbers and stops them from having to ask themselves hard questions about how they run the Church.

Anonymous Quartermaster December 17, 2014 3:44 PM  

"Is it really true that the RCC made it illegal to own a Bible in the Middle Ages?"

Yes, that's true. IIRC, private ownership of scripture was illegal in Italy until the early 20th century. It did not get much enforcement effort as it could not be enforced short of tyrannical acts.

Also, translating scripture into the vernacular carried a death sentence if you were caught. Tyndale was coaxed back to England and put to death. Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and burned just to make a point.

I don't fight with Catholics unless they pick the fight (they did over at NRO and I got user name ban for daring to defend myself).

JC, I have no idea where you are getting the idea that "mainstream" protestant denominations are jumping all over themselves to get back to the RCC. They aren't. There are a few obstreperous people calling for it, but it is not widespread as you seem to think. The hard core of Evangelicals are in no way interested. The reformation was not a mistake. Not even close.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 3:48 PM  

J Curtis: "How in the hell did they determine that demonstraors were 'right wing'? Did they quiz them on monetary policy, comparative economic systems and reducing the size of government?"

They don't need to.

The Moderateness of the Far Right & the Extremism of Immigration.

Recently I decided to investigate the ideas and policies of some of the political parties designated in the media as both “extreme” and “right-wing.” Since the parties that are so labelled exist primarily in Europe, the main search phrase I used was “Extreme Right-Wing Parties in Europe.” What struck me right away is that the only reason a political party in Europe is called “extremist,” “xenophobic,” or “ultra conservative” is its opposition to high immigration numbers — irrespective of overall platform. I was also puzzled by the fact that both the left and the “moderate” right-wing media use these inaccurate labels.

(Detailed descriptions of platforms follow. Read the whole thing.)

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 3:49 PM  

"And despite all that "power" of the 11, the worldly power of Christianity has continued to decline."

True .... if the 11 entrusted their efforts to horses, chariots, and the thighs of men.

Yet that is one of the main points of the post that seems to be a bit lost on you. Vox argued that it's not about the numbers (i.e. strength in numbers or quantifiable influence or clout, political or otherwise). He also implied that it's not even about the greatness or perfection of the 11 men.

By casually dismissing the 'power' of the eleven, you also dismiss the Source of that power. That Source has historically, deliberately, and consistently orchestrated long odds. To wit: Noah, Joshua and Caleb, Gideon, David, Esther, . . . and the eleven.

Again, it's not about the numbers, but the Math is clearly on our side.

Blogger Krul December 17, 2014 3:53 PM  

Yes, that's true. IIRC, private ownership of scripture was illegal in Italy until the early 20th century.

Thanks, but was that a RCC law, meant to apply to all Christians, or a secular Italy law?

Also, translating scripture into the vernacular carried a death sentence if you were caught. Tyndale was coaxed back to England and put to death. Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and burned just to make a point.

I'm not so sure about that. Take a look at this. There were several English translations of Bible books in the Middle Ages, with the earliest being Venerable Bede's in the 7th century. Wycliffe was condemned for his association with the Peasant's revolt, and Tyndale (who is not strictly relevant since he was born in 1494, long after the Middle Ages) was condemned for alleged heretical mistranslations, not for the translation itself.

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2014 3:58 PM  

> My point is that those days are largely over and we certainly will never see the Christian ideology wield the kind of power here that it once did.

Never is a long time, Carol.

Blogger Salt December 17, 2014 3:59 PM  

the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (No Salvation Outside the Church)

Agreed, with appropriate reference to John 3:16 as defining just what the Church is.

Blogger Danby December 17, 2014 4:00 PM  

to himself: Stay out of the sectarian fight. STtay out of the sectarian fight. Stay out of the sectarian fight.
@A. B. Prosper
No, Germans are not marching for Europa. German exist. The French exist. Britons and Bretons exist.
Europa does not exist. It is the failed pipe dram of the failed Fourth French Republic.

"Europa uber alles!" is exactly the sort of magical thinking that is killing the West.

We live next door to each other! We have different languages, attitudes and cultures! We have nothing in common but proximity! We're just the same!

Do you even know any Germans? Germans might be happy being ruled by Americans, or even the French, given the right circumstances. Germans would never be happy being ruled by Greeks or Italians, or Spaniards, or especially Turks.

Blogger JartStar December 17, 2014 4:02 PM  

Never is a long time, Carol.

"we" in that sentence could refer to the readers of this blog, and not "we" as in the collective human race outside of our lifetimes so in that case I'm inclined to agree. Of course Carol is so sloppy it might also refer to him (her?) and a pet cat.

Anonymous Student in Blue December 17, 2014 4:09 PM  

My, what a marvelous conversation we have here on the rise of unrest of native populations due to immigration.

It would be a shame if people couldn't resist themselves and interjected Protestant vs Catholicism where it wasn't, or continued said topic. I've certainly seen far, far too many of those and they never go anywhere, so I'm crossing my fingers!

@Josh
Ah hell...

He's a boomer, isn't he?

...It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

Funny how when there's a movement like this, the thought on display here is to just hop on the bandwagon and claim it's all about how amazing their generation was ('We put men on the moon!') rather than native vs immigrant.

Anonymous zen0 December 17, 2014 4:10 PM  

From where I sit, the protestant and catholic systems are all just part of the bi-factional Neo-Babalonian power structure. Just like Reps & Dems, it is a method of suppressing the Truth.

The age of the internet is the last time one should fear bible study. The resources are immense.

Getting back to the original topic........... isn't Tommy Hass in Germany, or am I mistaken? If he is, the timing of the demonstrations is interesting, given some recent threads he has been in.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 4:11 PM  

Europa does not exist. It is the failed pipe dram of the failed Fourth French Republic.

"Europa uber alles!" is exactly the sort of magical thinking that is killing the West.


Here here!

And White Solidarity is the same sort of magical thinking.

Blogger Krul December 17, 2014 4:11 PM  

From Wiki, I get the impression that the RCC didn't care if people owned or translated the Bible unless the translator was also involved in anti-clerical populism or reform movements, in which case they and their books were condemned for heresy.

Could be wrong, though. A Papal law expert, I am not.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 4:12 PM  

From where I sit, the protestant and catholic systems are all just part of the bi-factional Neo-Babalonian power structure. Just like Reps & Dems, it is a method of suppressing the Truth.

Thus saith the orthodox?

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 4:13 PM  

"Again, it's not about the numbers, but the Math is clearly on our side. "

Maybe this is why christianity has lost so much influence in the west. It's adherents don't understand that where power and influence is concerned, it's all about numbers that mean something and that can be put to use. The problem is that the numbers it used to use to influence and control no longer add up for many people and the Mission Christians haven't been able to find a new set of numbers that work as the world continues to modernize.

Blogger JCclimber December 17, 2014 4:14 PM  

"JC, I have no idea where you are getting the idea that "mainstream" protestant denominations are jumping all over themselves to get back to the RCC. They aren't. There are a few obstreperous people calling for it, but it is not widespread as you seem to think. The hard core of Evangelicals are in no way interested. The reformation was not a mistake. Not even close."

Right. Look, if you want to believe that, go ahead. But the protestants here on this site, how many of them are finding all kinds of positive things to say about the RCC church, the pope, their standards on marriage, how much good they did, apologizing for the Inquisition (it only killed a few hundred people, it was targeting jews who were trying to overthrow the government, the church actually was a voice of moderation who kept the secular authorities in check, etc.). The Dark Ages weren't actually dark. And so forth.

We have the Evangelicals and Catholics together (1994).
The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (Lutherans, and Methodists joined in 2006)
Another one:
"After about six years of dialogue, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Reformed Church in America, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the Christian Reformed Church in North America, and the United Church of Christ signed a document recognizing each other's liturgical rites of baptism.

Tony Palmer's video message from the Pope to the Pentecostals.

And on it goes.

Anonymous Mrs. Carol Martin December 17, 2014 4:15 PM  

""we" in that sentence could refer to the readers of this blog, and not "we" as in the collective human race outside of our lifetimes..."

Collective human race...obviously.

Anonymous Student in Blue December 17, 2014 4:15 PM  

@Josh
And White Solidarity is the same sort of magical thinking.

Just ask Nate if white people up north are the same as down south. :)

Blogger JCclimber December 17, 2014 4:15 PM  

But, back to the original post, I don't blame the Germans for getting tired of the invasion, I agree with them.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper December 17, 2014 4:18 PM  

Danby. . I agree that Europa as a single political unity is not going to happen either by a revival of the ideology of the 4th republic or by a revival of a Catholic faith or the spread of Orthodox for that matter,. Europa is the idea that Europe belongs to Europeans which BTW do not include most Turks, Muslims or in many cases Gypsies or Jews for that matter. It might include Southern Europeans but as you said, the cultures are too different for one to rule another

Have you seen SDU: Salute to the European youth BTW?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR-lAGj_dlQ

Despite the emphasis on the European Union, this is about the identity of Europe being for people of European decent instead of the multi-cult bureaucrats of Brussels and the Cathedral. The video works around hate speech laws but its saying "These are our countries, not yours." That's how I see Europa,

As for the US its not going to be running Europe much longer, we did to a high degree post war but the US is now Latin American not a European outpost and baring a cultural reversal, civil war, whatever, within a few years will no more run Europe than Mexico or Brazil.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 4:20 PM  

"The problem is that the numbers it used to use to influence and control no longer add up for many people . . ."

I sympathize with you, Carol .... math is hard.

Anonymous Ostar December 17, 2014 4:23 PM  

It's absolutely ludicrous to ever count out a faith that began with just eleven frightened, cowardly men who abandoned their leader. Christianity doesn't need numbers. It just needs the faith of a mustard seed.

This may be one of the most profound things I've read on this blog in the 3 years or so I've been reading.

Agreed...

Anonymous bob k. mando December 17, 2014 4:28 PM  

clearly, we have a Rammstein song that needs new lyrics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTNtBK8t4ic

if nothing else, just to make Till's hipster SJW head explode.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 4:37 PM  

Europa does not exist. It is the failed pipe dram of the failed Fourth French Republic.

"Europa uber alles!" is exactly the sort of magical thinking that is killing the West.


Josh: "Here here!

And White Solidarity is the same sort of magical thinking."

In that case, as Pris the Replicant said, "then we're stupid and we'll die."

But I don't think so. And I know there's no reward for assuming so.

Anonymous Scipio Africanus December 17, 2014 4:45 PM  

Carol Martin,

Once the Christian Church wakes up and throws out the idiot women and emasculated male leadership, it will again be the religion of badass godly men like Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 4:53 PM  

In that case, as Pris the Replicant said, "then we're stupid and we'll die."

But I don't think so. And I know there's no reward for assuming so.


I'm not sure if you're American or not, but understanding that whites are not blacks and Australians are not Americans is not hard. The universal brotherhood of whites is just as silly of an idea as the universal brotherhood of man.

Anonymous Stilicho December 17, 2014 4:54 PM  

Getting back to the original topic........... isn't Tommy Hass in Germany, or am I mistaken? If he is, the timing of the demonstrations is interesting, given some recent threads he has been in.

but but but... he was invited! Pay no attention to thousands in the streets, ignore your lying eyes... Dammit the Germans want him there...just ask him.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 4:57 PM  

Anyone know where Tommy is?

I hope he didn't take advantage of any free train rides...

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 5:02 PM  

Josh: "I'm not sure if you're American or not, but understanding that whites are not blacks and Australians are not Americans is not hard. The universal brotherhood of whites is just as silly of an idea as the universal brotherhood of man."

The universal brotherhood of man is an in-group with no out-groups, a coin with only one side. It's a logical impossibility.

Anonymous Carol Martin December 17, 2014 5:03 PM  

Scorpio,

If you are holding your breath, stop now. The Christian Church is well awake already and the women are its only hope.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 5:10 PM  

"If you are holding your breath, stop now. The Christian Church is well awake already and the women are its only hope."

Oh boy . . .

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 17, 2014 5:11 PM  

bob k. mando
clearly, we have a Rammstein song that needs new lyrics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTNtBK8t4ic


Thread win.

Blogger JartStar December 17, 2014 5:13 PM  

Carol Martin = Tad?

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 5:15 PM  

I thought for a minute it read 'women are its only dopes' ...

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 5:15 PM  

Got my glasses on now ..... that's better.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 5:16 PM  

"If you are holding your breath, stop now."

Exhales.

Blogger Rabbi B December 17, 2014 5:19 PM  

"The Christian Church is well awake already and the women are its only hope."

Well . . . they do have the numbers . . .

Anonymous BB December 17, 2014 5:26 PM  

I can't speak for all the west, as my experience is mainly with the Netherlands and Germany. The political dynamics of the west's incumbent American custodian are probably different from those of its colonial, EU-nese periphery.


In its infancy, the post-Stalinist left knew that control of public discourse was key to winning the culture war. Think of Gramsci and Alinsky. Look at the tactics of the 68' protests: wrong-thinking people were pushed out of their institutions, to be replaced by correct-thinking ones.

But this triumph, complete though as it was, has long since passed. MPAI, and whatever combat savvy the left may have had decades ago, its average acolyte today is reduced to uttering 'racist' or 'fascist' whenever it manages to deduce an instance of crimethink in its vicinity. They're not even capable of throwing a Marcusean 'authoritarian' in there (probably too polysyllabic). I am sometimes reminded of a herd of cows all raising their heads in unison upon my entering their limited field of vision. Vox often points out the left's boundness-to rhetoric/inability-to-dialectic, but in these moments the r-types seem to reveal a basic Pavlovian conditioning that is closer to mere biochemistry than any higher mental faculties.

As long as it had a monopoly on the zeitgeist, the left could afford to be amorphous. I take it that in the US the umbrella term of 'liberalism' is used, but this has no clear analogy in Europe: social democracy? Anti-fascism? LGBT-Human-Rights-Malala-Dreams-from-my-fatherism? There was no need for a label, but benefits from being intangible - being harder to grasp meant being harder to attack, which I imagine must have been hell for traditional/reactionary types in pre-internet times.

No longer. The results of leftist policies are out in the open - the replacement of ethnic Europeans; the destruction of our culture and traditions; the selling-out of our economic future & the besmirching of our holy places (a bare-chested Soros-Femenite disturbed last year's Christmas service in Cologne - I dare her to try again this year). The absurdity of what passes for leftist alliance making collapses under the slightest of scrutiny - a cabal of amygdala-challenged perverts & dellusional chosen people in charge of dead-eyed Africans, perfumed sodomists and Muslim peasant foot troops is no opposition, but a joke that cannot keep even keep burgfrieden, much less stand up to this simplest of thruths: "Wir sind das Volk."

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 5:27 PM  

Titus' Law:

As an online discussion touching on the possibility of Christianity attaining dominating political power grows longer, with a denominationally diverse group of Christians participating, the probability of a sectarian brawl breaking out approaches 1.

Christianity can thrive and even dominate culturally again in white nations that are at present going under.

But some other basis for solidarity that will be required. One that does not imply that the winners might burn the losers at the stake. (Or otherwise treat them as they would not wish to be treated.)

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 5:31 PM  

BB, I hope you are right.

Anonymous Scipio Africanus December 17, 2014 5:41 PM  

"If you are holding your breath, stop now. The Christian Church is well awake already and the women are its only hope." - Carol Martin

Carol, that was so funny, I could not hold my breath because I was laughing so hard.

I suppose your next statement will be something like "dont worry, Charlene Martel is going to show and open a dialog with the muslims, and get tthem to talk about their feelings, and everything will be ok."

Anonymous Shut Up, Tad December 17, 2014 5:49 PM  

I knew Carol Martin, Tad, and you are NO Carol Martin.
Now spell potato, if you dare.

Blogger Josh December 17, 2014 5:51 PM  

Christianity can thrive and even dominate culturally again in white nations that are at present going under.

But some other basis for solidarity that will be required. One that does not imply that the winners might burn the losers at the stake. (Or otherwise treat them as they would not wish to be treated.)


I don't see why, for example, the Germans should find solidarity with the French in order to save Germany. Why can't Germany save itself by itself?

Blogger njartist December 17, 2014 5:59 PM  

@ Krul December 17, 2014 2:55 PM
Rome did ban the bible

If you had read either books Mohamed and Charlemagne or its sequel, you would know that the bible was very common among a literate population before the seventh century when Islam conquered North Africa and cut off the supply of papyrus for paper making.

Blogger Sam Hall December 17, 2014 6:20 PM  

A.B. Prosper said
"Have you seen SDU: Salute to the European youth BTW?"

Reminds me of this
Tomorrow belongs to me

Hope it doesn't turn out the same way.

Anonymous BB December 17, 2014 6:41 PM  

@ Josh

Because Germans fighting for their own are nationalistic pigs. As are French, Dutch, Italians etc.

Individually, we are easily demoralized as chauvinists. Look at the last 20 years: the forces of 'good' could always claim the moral high ground by virtue of their cosmopolitanism (EU-integration; NATO-expansion; 'axis of the willing'; a Spanish poster once stated here that in his country, leftist policies were always advertised as 'the way the Scandinavians are doing it').

Whether we like it or not, the moralistic urge is powerful in our people. Indeed, in the absence of a strong tribalism it is probably the singlemost important motivator we have.

This is why we cannot let the left monopolize this resource. At the risk of sounding trivial, but seeing how our neighbors were suffering from the exact same plights as we was a huge eye-opener for me. It wasn't that we Germans were all racists. It wasn't that we're all hopeless crypto-nazis, micro-aggressing against enriching and superior vibrants, or whatever the ideologues would have us believe. No, because we have allies in this struggle, our cause is right.

Maybe this point is harder to see for the more purely K-selected among us. But when I first heard of the French Identitarians 2 years ago, I instinctively knew that in time, the politically correct status quo would be swept away for exactly this reason.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 6:49 PM  

BB's answer is also mine.

We can do this, but not each nation alone.

Blogger Krul December 17, 2014 7:08 PM  

njartist, thanks for the link.

However, the earliest prohibitions listed are from 1199 and 1229 AD, the midst of the 12th century Renaissance, not a time that could reasonably be called the "Dark Ages". If these are in fact the earliest prohibitions, then Christians were free to own and translate the Bible for around 800 years (from synods and Vulgate).

So it is clear from those references that the RCC did condemn the ownership and translation of the Bible, but it's not clear that it did so in the early Middle Ages. Apparently it didn't do so until rivals to its power and status as an institution arose in the form of Cathars, Lollards, and so on.

Blogger Joshua_D December 17, 2014 7:17 PM  

Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 5:27 PM

Titus' Law:

As an online discussion touching on the possibility of Christianity attaining dominating political power grows longer, with a denominationally diverse group of Christians participating, the probability of a sectarian brawl breaking out approaches 1.


This is funnier than Carol's comment about women.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 7:56 PM  

Titus' Law was meant to be funny.

But look at the threads here and at many other blogs and tell me if you don't also see truth in it.

Blogger Viisaus December 17, 2014 8:16 PM  

We simply need a new pious Reformation, this time against the egalitarian heresy. Purging the Liberal infiltrators from the churches would a logical process to go alongside with the overthrow of Liberal governments.

The equality-dogma cannot be found in the Bible, or in the traditions of the early church. (No forced abolitionism, or democracy, or female suffrage.)

The Bible-believing Protestants should not have much trouble, after having lost the paralyzing fear of men, in considering egalitarianism to be an un-Scriptural, Pharisaical "tradition of men." That's what it really is - a very popular worldly position that people have simply gotten used to associating with Christianity, but without Biblical support. An unholy tradition of men.

That alone would be enough Scriptural basis for an anti-equality Reformation.

Blogger Joshua_D December 17, 2014 8:21 PM  

Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 7:56 PM

Titus' Law was meant to be funny.

But look at the threads here and at many other blogs and tell me if you don't also see truth in it.


Certainly, I see the truth in it.

Anonymous Quartermaster December 17, 2014 9:37 PM  

"Right. Look, if you want to believe that, go ahead."

JC, you can think anything you like. But ECT kicked up a massive firestorm and many of those that signed backed off pretty quick. A few tried to revive it later, but there was very little interest. There are a few mainline heretics that would go along, but very few.

Anonymous Quartermaster December 17, 2014 9:44 PM  

"...Tyndale (who is not strictly relevant since he was born in 1494, long after the Middle Ages) was condemned for alleged heretical mistranslations."

Krul, that's rather novel to me. Something I've never seen in any of the histories of the time. Regardless, the RCC reacted rather violently against anyone they thought was challenging them in any way if the hierarchy thought it might result in a loss of power for them. Heresy was a common cover charge they used to hide what they were actually doing.

Anonymous Carol Martin December 18, 2014 12:12 AM  

"We simply need a new pious Reformation, this time against the egalitarian heresy. Purging the Liberal infiltrators from the churches would a logical process to go alongside with the overthrow of Liberal governments."

Excellent, Sir. A perfect prescription to completely empty the churches and reduce it not only to inconsequential in the world, but to complete powerlessness.

Blogger Da_Truth_Hurts December 18, 2014 12:25 AM  

The medium we're writing on is allowing ideas and movements to flourish across borders at scope and scale never seen before, in spite of (not because of) state involvement.

Once nations across Europe pull the plug and try to limit twitter and such, when the inevitable pushback against the muslim savages reaches larger sizes - in that moment it'll all go up in flames.

Anonymous Student in Blue December 18, 2014 12:36 AM  

@Carol Martin
You have a weird fixation on the Church's earthly power, and not its piety. In essence, you are advocating for a continued distortion of the Gospel just so warm bodies can fill the seats.

Anonymous Not Mike Godwin December 18, 2014 12:41 AM  

Titus Didius Tacitus December 17, 2014 5:27 PM

Titus' Law:

As an online discussion touching on the possibility of Christianity attaining dominating political power grows longer, with a denominationally diverse group of Christians participating, the probability of a sectarian brawl breaking out approaches 1.


You are just like Hitler.

Anonymous Carol Martin December 18, 2014 12:49 AM  

"You have a weird fixation on the Church's earthly power, and not its piety. In essence, you are advocating for a continued distortion of the Gospel just so warm bodies can fill the seats."

If you think there isn't an intimate connection between levels of piety and the Church's earthly power, then you haven't been paying attention. In every era and at every time and in every place the church and its most fervent members have always worked to use piety to wield political power.

Anonymous kh123 December 18, 2014 12:59 AM  

In other words, Christendom wields less worldly power at present, because it's not denying worldliness enough. At present.

Or something.

Anonymous kh123 December 18, 2014 1:07 AM  

...It's almost akin to saying the church hasn't mastered Satan yet, since they haven't quite delved deep enough into demonology to figure out how to curse and control the lesser buggers of Legion beyond the basic exhortations given in Scripture.

Anonymous Wyrd December 18, 2014 2:00 AM  

In every era and at every time and in every place the church and its most fervent members have always worked to use piety to wield political power.

Yes, The Cathedral. Staffed with many women per your prior-proclaimed prerequisite.

Blogger JCclimber December 18, 2014 2:57 AM  

hey now, that's an unfair characterization of what Carol is saying.

She's saying that a focus on holding to doctrine and ridding churches of churchians will - "Excellent, Sir. A perfect prescription to completely empty the churches and reduce it not only to inconsequential in the world, but to complete powerlessness." Well, actually I guess that does sound like what she is saying.

Although, history shows that even a 2/3 purge (or greater) results in explosive church growth as MEN start bringing themselves and their entire families.....because someone is showing some balls.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 18, 2014 4:26 AM  

Not Mike Godwin: "You are just like Hitler."

That was nearly inevitable in a thread of this length.

(Well played.)

Blogger James Dixon December 18, 2014 4:31 AM  

> Carol Martin = Tad?

Probably. The style is the same.

Anonymous Michael December 18, 2014 9:02 AM  

joe doakes, "Hooligans? What kind of bad acts are talking about: burning cars in the banlieue, beheading soldiers on city streets, or slaughtering schoolchildren? Or is their crime one of failing to genuflect to suicidal political correctness?"

^ This. Anyone opposing the agenda to dissolve the national sovereignty of predominantly Christian nations is automatically demonized by the establishment.

Anonymous kaflick December 18, 2014 12:10 PM  

> The universal brotherhood of man is an in-group
> with no out-groups, a coin with only one side. It's
> a logical impossibility.

It is not an impossibility, it is true now. Are you saying all brothers agree and get along?

The brotherhood of man does not say we will get along, it says that we should love our brothers and try to do what's right for them. That includes tough love and physical restraint to keep them from harming others.

Remember that civil wars are the worst.


Anonymous Eye of Horus December 20, 2014 5:33 AM  

Brotherhood of the Damned is more what you have now. If you don't Love your Race, then you don't care for your Family or your Children. Globalism is farcical in its inanity. Believing nothing, aspiring to nothing, just a cheap pack RAT that like shiny objects.
Men are the spirit of God made flesh. Your enemies are soulless meat puppets with no past and NO FUTURE. Their dreams of power are a pipe dream of hopeless dead-eyed fantasizers who see nothing and perceive nothing.
There is no World. There are Nations and there are lands. Two nations can never be one, any more than two languages can merge into one tongue. Multiculturalism is Empire without power or growth. It is a Cancer that consumes the Soul and withers away all Life...

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