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Saturday, December 27, 2014

Save the planet, log the Amazon

ESR observes that if we want to end global warming, the most effective thing we can do is pave the rainforests:
For decades – and I do mean decades – I’ve been saying that any environmentalist who is really serious about reducing fossil-fuel use and CO2 emission should be agitating to switch the power infrastructure to using nuclear plants for the baseload as fast as possible.

But when the facts change, I change my mind. I was wrong. There is new, direct, observational evidence that the most effective thing we could do to reduce CO2 levels in the atmosphere is pave over the tropical rainforests.

Don’t believe me? Look at this map of CO2 emissions by region. It’s brand-new data from NASA’s just-lofted Orbiting Carbon Observatory.
It should be amusing to see how fast the green crowd spins around and declares that global warming is no longer an emergency requiring IMMEDIATE ACTION!

It's a pity about the jaguars, but I never liked sloths and spider monkeys anyhow.

Labels:

62 Comments:

Anonymous hygate December 27, 2014 1:05 PM  

Already happening.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/12/23/video-wh-science-advisor-says-man-made-global-warming-saving-us-from-another-ice-age/

Anonymous Mike M. December 27, 2014 1:09 PM  

Nothing wrong with sloths.

The real cure to global warming is reduction of the human population. SJWs, feminazis, Communists, and other examples of leftist troublemakers have no redeeming value. Why not exterminate them? For the children. Whack a Leftist, save the whales!

Blogger Edd Jobs December 27, 2014 1:12 PM  

And cut down old growth (slow growth) forests, replacing them with newly planted trees that will absorb CO2 as they rapidly grow. By locking up the excess carbon in paper bags destined for landfills we can reduce the presense of that dangerous substance in our atmosphere.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey December 27, 2014 1:34 PM  

"SJWs, feminazis, Communists, and other examples of leftist troublemakers have no redeeming value."

True, they're a nuisance, but the real growth in population is in Africa and Asia.

Anonymous kfg December 27, 2014 1:41 PM  

Don't forget to kill all the ruminants.

Anonymous Harsh December 27, 2014 1:42 PM  

Damn trees are sucking up all the oxygen.

Blogger MendoScot December 27, 2014 1:52 PM  

It's a pity about the jaguars, but I never liked sloths and spider monkeys anyhow.

Kitty lover!

And what's wrong with Megatherium? Apart from being extinct.

As far as we know.

Blogger Leahn Novash December 27, 2014 2:15 PM  

ESR is wrong. The article says the emissions are of biomass burning, likely the cleaning up of fields for agriculture. It's got little to do with trees.

Anonymous Statists are so dull December 27, 2014 2:16 PM  

[OT] @Admin - in case no one is looking at older posts - the Mammoth Hunter post just got spammed with porn links by a Yama-esk creature

Blogger D. Lane December 27, 2014 2:17 PM  

How will this impact the market for premium flooring?

Anonymous Corvinus December 27, 2014 2:30 PM  

That, plus deindustrialize China.

Anonymous jack December 27, 2014 2:32 PM  

And, I thought all this time, that the rainforest areas fixed so much O2 that, to lose them, would endanger planet Earth. So, if paving the rainforest will do so much good we should pave over Yellowstone, all of northern California, Oregon, Washington State and the the bulk of the pine forest in the South.

/S

Blogger automatthew December 27, 2014 2:34 PM  

ESR is wrong. The article says the emissions are of biomass burning, likely the cleaning up of fields for agriculture. It's got little to do with trees.

He addresses that in the post, short bus.

The official line on this is that the high carbon emission we’re seeing are produced by burning of biomass associated with the current Southern Hemisphere planting season. But there are two features of the data that make this rather obvious nonsense.

Blogger rycamor December 27, 2014 2:35 PM  

@Leahn: ESR's comments: "Here is a known thing: the error bar in the estimates of CO2 from biomass decay exceeds the entire amount of CO2 emission attributed to humans."

And biomass decay doesn't necessarily mean burning. It can come from any regular, natural decay of dead trees and plants, especially in old-growth forests. BTW this is why it is an incredibly short-sighted human mistake to prevent all forest fires across the board. Burning leads to a quick release of CO2, followed by a lot of carbon sequestration in the soil, followed by a boom in new growth, which consumes huge amounts of CO2 and produces oxygen.

Ergo, as a gardener I question the fundamental premise that CO2 is a bad thing. Two great questions to ask warming-zealot scientists: 1. Is the global temperature higher than it has ever been in history? 2. Are the CO2 levels higher than they have ever been in history? Even in recorded human history we know the answer for both of these is "no", and there is evidence of much higher temperatures and CO2 levels in pre-recorded history.

It's almost as if the Earth has its own dampening method for dealing with such things: higher temps and higher CO2 lead to higher new growth, which leads to lower CO2, which then slows down new growth, etc...

Which is of course why I and (I'm sure) ESR are not really in favor of the tongue-in-cheek recommendation to pave the Amazon, but the point is to mock the save-the-world nutcases who actually think their handwringing will make any difference in the long run.

Anonymous Northy December 27, 2014 2:39 PM  

Maybe I'm reading too much into this but... Does anyone else notice how the CO2 emissions are highest in the areas inhabited by non-whites? Brazil (brown), Africa (black), Indonesia (brown) and the Northern half of China (Asian). Meanwhile, Europe, and North America have either none or negligible levels.

This must scare the living daylights out of the SJW "scientists". I recall years ago that they were saying that Western countries needed to, essentially, de-industrialize. When I asked them about China, they said that the Chinese have not been industrialized as long as we have been and so they should be allowed to continue. Besides - "Knowledge Economy!!!".

Blogger rycamor December 27, 2014 2:52 PM  

@Northy, I think there is definitely some sense to this. Less industrialized societies use a lot more fire as part of the daily routine. And a standard open fire is ridiculously inefficient for cooking or cleaning, as most of the heat is lost in all directions.

Also, burning fields or piles of biomass is considered a horrible thing in Western society, but is an old way to revitalize the soil when you can't afford expensive fertilizers. This is ancient farming knowledge that is just now being rediscovered by the West. Google "biochar".

Blogger rycamor December 27, 2014 2:57 PM  

Just yesterday I was at Silver Springs State Park in Florida, and a ranger told us that the FL parks system has begun a series of controlled burns through all park forests in order to restore Florida's traditional ecosystem (tall trees and low vegetation has been taken over by lots of medium-sized non-native vegetation due to our preservation and fire-prevention efforts).

Blogger IM2L844 December 27, 2014 3:02 PM  

Joni Mitchell was ahead of her time.

Anonymous Daniel December 27, 2014 3:23 PM  

Biomass burning? What's the Dunham Horror up to now?

Blogger rycamor December 27, 2014 3:31 PM  

Actually, one shudders to think how much carbon is sequestered in the bodies of obese Americans. If they all got fit in the same year, I suspect the released CO2 would create a new rainforest over the continental USA.

Anonymous Tar Heel December 27, 2014 3:52 PM  

I don't think there's a better example of how sin bends and twists things than in the greenie movement. A perfectly Christian desire to be a responsible steward of God's creation (which is best expressed via protection of private property) becomes a waffling between blind panic and control freakishness. One side is more pagan in essence, and the other more atheistic. Either the planet is our selectively wrathful mother, or it's a fragile, thin bubble keeping out the void. Such binary thinking is ultimately anti-human and anti-Christ, as a shifting, changing thing such as the planet allows for multiple, personal solutions, and obeys its own law of supply and demand, which man cannot fully dictate, and yet would be wise to game in some ways.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan December 27, 2014 3:57 PM  

Would mowing down the rainforest to plant soybeans (for biofuel) work as well as paving it?

Cuz I think it's happening.

Anonymous Terd Ferguson December 27, 2014 4:31 PM  

This is brilliant, from Scalzi...

Essentially, Beale escapes punishment here because he’s failed to be important enough to be harmful.

I'm pretty sure Vox would have found this on his own, since we know he reads Scalzi obsessively, but still.

Blogger The CronoLink December 27, 2014 4:52 PM  

I'm pretty sure Vox would have found this on his own, since we know he reads Scalzi obsessively, but still.

He doesn't, his commenters notify him of such, just like you did, dumbo.

Anonymous Terd Ferguson December 27, 2014 4:57 PM  

Chronos; little subtlies in phrasing and timing would tell us differently.

Anonymous maniacprovost December 27, 2014 4:59 PM  

Despite the smug censoring of dissent, petty manipulation of mobs, and deceitful social justice mongering, the most offensive thing Scalzi's ever done is still Zoe's Tale.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 4:59 PM  

rycamor December 27, 2014 2:57 PM
a ranger told us that the FL parks system has begun a series of controlled burns through all park forests



if you notice, Brazilian Pepper trees really don't seem to do well out on the flats or in the swamps. however, they go nuts right next to mowed areas like ... the border of the interstate shoulders. or the edge of your lawn bordering an uncleared lot.

another thing about pepper trees, they REALLY don't like being burned. i was around the Palm Bay area several years ago when they had that drought and all the fires. native Fla vegetation came right back in the next growing season. pepper trees stayed dead.

pulling pepp trees up when you find them on your property is always a good idea, but there's nothing like a good burn to wipe them out.


Scalzi...
Essentially, Beale escapes punishment here because he’s failed to be important enough to be harmful.



*sigh* you sorry bastard, you made me read that essay.

the TL:DNR version of Scalzi's argument is that it's a horrible, terrible thing AND A LIE when Vox quotes words that Scalzi has written ...
but when Scalzi lies about conservatives being 'rapists', that's perfectly okay.

otoh, Scalzi has degenerated to the point where he is converting tweets into blog posts and calling it 'content'.

gotta love the new subtitle he has up on the page:
"I'VE BLED WORDS ONTO A PAGE FOR YOU"

yeah, you're just working your fingers to bloody nubs there, Johnny.



Scalzi
About US politics I wrote almost nothing because to be blunt, in general the best I could manage out this nation’s politics this last year was an exasperated eyeroll.


bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

as Obama said, the mid-term election was about his policies. aren't you happy with his policies? don't you support his policies, widdle Johnny?

no? then how are you not a racist?

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 5:06 PM  

no one of consequence December 25, 2014 12:34 AM
So what you've seen might be explicable by these concerns. And I'm the one who's been baleeting your baleet comments after unspamming your actual content.


this

*twitch*

makes no sense.

content posts are getting spammed, but posts in which i simply repost "baleet protection" have to be manually binned?

*deep breath*

blogspot commenting for the win.



no one of consequence December 25, 2014 12:52 AM
1. It's better if the trolls don't know which regulars have mod privs.



no argument there.



no one of consequence December 25, 2014 12:52 AM
2. I don't want people giving extra credence to the comments made under my usual name.



*points and laughs*
[ /Nelson }

yeah, whatever. we crap on Vox and he owns the place.

you think having mod rights is going to slow any of us up, you need to put the crack pipe down.

:3



no one of consequence December 25, 2014 12:52 AM
And then we'll be best buddies.



oh, you silver tongued, sweet talking devil. did someone tell you i was a cheap date?

*wink*

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 5:07 PM  

baleet protection?

Anonymous Sarcophilus December 27, 2014 5:14 PM  

Lots of vegetation = lots of rotting vegetation. And animals eating the vegetation.

At least the polar bears are safe , no tons of CO2 from the tundra.

Anonymous Harsh December 27, 2014 5:16 PM  

I'm pretty sure Vox would have found this on his own, since we know he reads Scalzi obsessively, but still.

I'm keep hearing that Vox obsessively reads Scalzi's blog and yet see nothing in the way of evidence to prove that this is so, and yet Scalzi's minions and sycophants are constantly on this blog slinging their pseudo-intellectual nonsense. A bigger case of projection I have yet to witness.

Anonymous Mudz December 27, 2014 5:22 PM  

@ Terd Ferguson

You're a terrible provocateur. Your post was so overt in it's insincerity you might as well as tagged it [/sarcasm].

Anonymous Daniel H December 27, 2014 5:33 PM  

The Amazon needs more immigration, that's the solution. It's the solution for everything.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit December 27, 2014 5:34 PM  

@Turd Ferguson
Without any context sounds like a typical wabbit squee - probably happens too often to be noteworthy. You life must be pretty dull & empty to bring it up here.

Anonymous Orville December 27, 2014 5:43 PM  

And this is just the first of the data sets. Wait until they get to the growing season in the northern hemisphere. I'd be interested in seeing that.

The vegans and their damnable veggies are killing the planet.

Anonymous n.o.o.c. December 27, 2014 5:48 PM  

you think having mod rights is going to slow any of us up, you need to put the crack pipe down.

Your solipsism is showing, bob. You laid out the case in your original comment on the matter: someone Vox trusts to moderate must be something something I stopped reading. Many men are influenced by such things; not all of them are weak-minded.

It's better for everyone if Westley goes masked.

Anonymous n.o.o.c. December 27, 2014 5:50 PM  

bob k mando: blogspot commenting for the win.

The horror is unfathomable. The admin console is ludicrously bad. It's like democracy.

Anonymous Student in Blue December 27, 2014 5:50 PM  

@Turd Ferguson
Echoing what 'Shut up rabbit' said, there's nothing of note in a throwaway insult. Do you go over to Scalzi's blog and do your best to inform him everytime Vox mentions how Scalzi is a self-admitted rapist?

No?

Then why are you wasting our time with one sentence? Why does Vox get this 'privilege' and Scalzi doesn't?

Anonymous zen0 December 27, 2014 6:58 PM  

Meanwhile, back at the topic

Politically correct climate change orthodoxy has completely destroyed our ability to think rationally about the environment. – Richard Tol

Blogger grendel December 27, 2014 8:14 PM  

Surprised Kratman hasn't checked in to say "I don't like spiders and snakes."

And the spider monkey I hate most is the one in the sparkly vampire movie. Pave Forks, WA. Preferably with glass.

Blogger rycamor December 27, 2014 8:31 PM  

zen0 December 27, 2014 6:58 PM

Meanwhile, back at the topic

Politically correct climate change orthodoxy has completely destroyed our ability to think rationally about the environment. – Richard Tol


Interesting that he brings up the Precautionary Principle. Seems to me the best precautionary principle would be to do nothing, since we don't really know whether a) things really are getting warmer, or b) whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. So, do nothing except what we should already be doing: making industry as efficient, profitable, and decentralized as possible. Ergo, get government out of industry, since it is obvious that government is the primary cause of centralization and inefficiency in business. Along with that, get government out of protecting and subsidizing giant farming conglomerates and bad farming practices that have become the standard in our time.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 27, 2014 8:54 PM  

Seems to me the best precautionary principle would be to do nothing

You mean, stop adding CO2, CH4, N2O, CF4, SF6 and a bunch of other gases to the atmosphere until we're certain that they're doing no harm?  I agree 100%!

Wait, you mean KEEP adding all that stuff until we're sure (to whose satisfaction?) that they ARE doing harm?  That's sure not precautionary.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 9:16 PM  

n.o.o.c. December 27, 2014 5:48 PM
Your solipsism is showing, bob.



accusations of solipsism? gotta be a chick, what with all that projection.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 9:16 PM  

baleen protection?

Anonymous n.o.o.c. December 27, 2014 10:31 PM  

baleen protection?

Anonymous n.o.o.c. December 27, 2014 10:35 PM  

Do you comment at any other blogspot blogs, bob k. mando? If you've been spammed anywhere in the Blogger system, you're more likely to get spammed everywhere.

Anonymous kfg December 27, 2014 11:09 PM  

"I question the fundamental premise that CO2 is a bad thing."

You're either a bit slow, a bit young, or both. In junior high biology textbooks it used to be chapter one why, without CO2 in the atmosphere . . . everything . . . fucking . . . DIES.

The more advanced lesson was the that the atmospheric pollutant that is so noxious that it killed off 90% of life on Earth is . . . oxygen.

"Lots of vegetation = lots of rotting vegetation. And animals eating the vegetation."

It's called the Carbon Cycle; chapter one as per above. Don't they teach this shit any more? Are there really people to whom this is shocking news?

" . . . no tons of CO2 from the tundra."

In the winter. Shit tons of the stuff in the summer.

"The vegans and their damnable veggies are killing the planet."

Damn straight. Bucky did the Space Ship Earth math, what, 50, 60 years ago? Started straight in to eating all the grass eater he could after that.

As the old joke goes: I'm not going to eat that. That's what food eats.

Blogger Rantor December 27, 2014 11:10 PM  

But the Amazon rain forest is the earth's lungs... we won't be able to breathe... gasp cough couhg, say no more, cough

Anonymous FP December 27, 2014 11:25 PM  

"Whack a Leftist, save the whales!"

But then in 300 years a probe will show up singing leftist mating calls. We're doomed I tell ya.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 11:51 PM  

n.o.o.c. December 27, 2014 10:35 PM
Do you comment at any other blogspot blogs, bob k. mando? If you've been spammed anywhere in the Blogger system, you're more likely to get spammed everywhere.



this is the only place i comment regularly.

i suppose i could have po'd some weeny leftist, but if they did spam me i wouldn't know it because i didn't go back.

i have been barred from a forum, but i've never heard of any of those being tied into something like blogspot.

being that i didn't start getting spammed until the last month, i don't remember doing anything to anyone ... recently.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2014 11:51 PM  

ball peen protection.

what a dirty mind you have.

Blogger rycamor December 28, 2014 12:04 AM  

kfg December 27, 2014 11:09 PM

"I question the fundamental premise that CO2 is a bad thing."

You're either a bit slow, a bit young, or both. In junior high biology textbooks it used to be chapter one why, without CO2 in the atmosphere . . . everything . . . fucking . . . DIES.


No, you don't know how to read. I am QUESTIONING the assumption by the enviro idiots that CO2 is a bad thing. Ergo... on the same page as you, although obviously a paragraph or two ahead due to my superior reading comprehension.

Blogger rycamor December 28, 2014 12:09 AM  

Mr. Rational December 27, 2014 8:54 PM

Seems to me the best precautionary principle would be to do nothing

You mean, stop adding CO2, CH4, N2O, CF4, SF6 and a bunch of other gases to the atmosphere until we're certain that they're doing no harm? I agree 100%!

Wait, you mean KEEP adding all that stuff until we're sure (to whose satisfaction?) that they ARE doing harm? That's sure not precautionary.


Mr. Rational does not understand the nature of rationality.

When I say do nothing I obviously mean do not introduce giant sweeping changes to what is going on now, since we don't really know the effects of those changes, AND since sweeping changes initiated from the top down always have unintended consequences, much less rarely even accomplish their first-order intended purpose. Then secondarily, I said that we should encourage industry to do what it already naturally "wants" to do in the absence of economy-distorting government intervention, which is to increasingly figure out how to do more with less. If you really think we pollute more now than we did a century ago (per capita), you are sorely mistaken.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 28, 2014 12:41 AM  

Mr. Rational should stop breathing until the consensus is his exhaled CO2 is absolutely not doing any harm at all.

Anonymous kfg December 28, 2014 12:57 AM  

" I am QUESTIONING the assumption by the enviro idiots that CO2 is a bad thing. Ergo... on the same page as you . . ."

That's the way I read it. My response was a bit tongue in cheek, as it is not a question at all. It is a fact, a real fact, not a consensus '"fact", that CO2 is the gas of life on Earth. I was just venting and you happened to present a handy release valve for it. You personally were not the target.

And speaking of venting, if you don't want to see me spitting acid, don't bring up cows passing gas. I'm "in a mood" tonight.

Blogger rycamor December 28, 2014 1:31 AM  

@kfg, gotcha mate.

I suppose there might be a few enviro-whackos so confused that they really think that the "bad" CO2 levels means that ALL CO2 should be removed. Reminds me of a chemistry professor's story about a politician who had been part of a campaign to clean up industrial runoff in a river, where the companies involved had agreed to make all their runoff pH-neutral. At some social function the politician happened to run across one of the company presidents, and told him "This is just the beginning. I think it's still absolutely despicable that you people are getting away with a pH of 7, and I mean to put an end to it. Next I am campaigning for it to be reduced all the way to ZERO!"

Anonymous VD December 28, 2014 5:28 AM  

I'm pretty sure Vox would have found this on his own, since we know he reads Scalzi obsessively, but still.

I don't do anything of the sort. I haven't read any of his books since he emailed me When Androids Dream. I put that one down not long after the chapter-long fart joke. I've visited his blog twice in the last three months. I'm blocked from his Twitter feed and I don't circumvent the block except when something specific is drawn to my attention.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 28, 2014 8:35 AM  

Anything protected by Political Correctness is bound to be found out as total crap, I think that is the new Iron Law of the universe.

The weenies have extrapolated a hypothesis out into a certainty of doom in a morality tale protected from critique by PC.

Blogger rycamor December 28, 2014 10:13 AM  

The Politically Correct are the neo-puritans. More puritanical and self-righteous than the original puritans ever imagined being, and more terrified than ever that someone, somewhere, is enjoying life.

Anonymous Luke December 28, 2014 4:15 PM  

Rantor December 27, 2014 11:10 PM

"But the Amazon rain forest is the earth's lungs... we won't be able to breathe... gasp cough couhg, say no more, cough"

Horse hockey. The majority of photosynthesis occurs in the oceans.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 29, 2014 3:11 PM  

It is a fact, a real fact, not a consensus '"fact", that CO2 is the gas of life on Earth.

Life on earth can't exist without phosphorus or fixed nitrogen either, but I dare you to throw a whole bunch into your favorite body of water and not call the results "pollution".

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 29, 2014 3:13 PM  

Mr. Rational does not understand the nature of rationality.

rycamor is projecting, and also fails to understand the precautionary principle.

For an example with less ideological weight attached to it, take Scotchgard™.  The primary component of Scotchgard™ used to be perfluorooctanyl sulfonate (PFOS), an extremely durable molecule which turned up all over the environment and in all sorts of organisms, including humans.  Rather than wait for detrimental effects to be conclusively linked to PFOS, 3M voluntarily changed the formulation of Scotchgard™ to eliminate the highly-persistent compounds.  That was a precautionary action.

When I say do nothing I obviously mean do not introduce giant sweeping changes to what is going on now

Instead, you'd continue the giant sweeping changes being made to the concentration of many IR-active species in Earth's atmosphere.

since we don't really know the effects of those changes

They are already causing unintended (but predictable and predicted, since Arrhenius in 1896) consequences.

AND since sweeping changes initiated from the top down always have unintended consequences

It was just such a top-down change that halted the displacement of coal by nuclear power in the USA.  The replacement of the AEC by the NRC stopped a bottom-up sweep driven by the lower cost of nuclear under AEC rules.  The NRC amounted to a protection racket operating for the benefit of coal interests.

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