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Saturday, January 24, 2015

Anti-Europeanists

This celebration of Islamic expansion in Europe may explain why the French and British people haven't been shedding many tears over Jews targeted by Muslims in Europe:
Rabbi Baruch Efrati, a yeshiva head and community rabbi in the West Bank settlement of Efrat, believes that the Islamization of Europe is actually a good thing.

"With the help of God, the gentiles there will adopt a healthier life with a lot of modesty and integrity, and not like the hypocritical Christianity which appears pure but is fundamentally corrupt," he explained.

Rabbi Efrati was asked to discuss the issue by an oriental studies student, who inquired on Judaism's stand toward the process Europe has been going through in recent years. Following the election of a hijab-wearing Muslim woman as the mayor of the Bosnian city of Visoko for the first time in continent's history, the student asked the rabbi on the Kipa website: "How do we fight the Islamization of Europe and return it to the hands of Christians and moderates?"

Efrati wrote in response that the Islamization of Europe was better than a Christian Europe for ethical and theological reasons – as a punishment against Christians for persecuting the Jews and the fact that Christianity, as opposed to Islam, is considered "idolatry" from a halachic point of view....

"Europe is losing its identity in favor of another people and another religion, and there will be no remnants and survivors from the impurity of Christianity, which shed a lot of blood it won't be able to atone for."
One would have thought the Jews might have learned from the Granada Massacre and the Reconquista that betting on the Mahometans isn't the smart thing to do. Meanwhile, David Goldberg declares that he has nothing to say to anyone in Europe:
It’s been so long since Europeans took their own national identity seriously that it’s hard for them to remember why it is that they can’t stand the sort of Jew who represents the Jewish future. One has to put them on the proverbial couch and coax it out of them: Europeans hate Jews because European national identity from the outset was a dreadful parody of Jewish identity.... I speak three European languages apart from English and have nothing to say to anybody in any of them.
I used to like reading Goldberg back when he was Spengler. Now... what is he even trying to say?

Labels: ,

137 Comments:

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami January 24, 2015 3:13 AM  

And somehow these "highly intelligent" people can never figure out why everybody hates them.

Anonymous An Israeli January 24, 2015 3:23 AM  

VD,

I've never heard of this rabbi, and I know of no Israeli who shares his views about Europe. The comments to his article seem to indicate other Israelis also abhor his position.

However, this rabbi has nothing to do with Jew hatred in Europe. Europeans have hated Jews for centuries, before Israel, before zionism, before mass muslim immigration to Europe. They always find another excuse for it.

As for not caring that Jews are targeted, the reason is that it gives Christians the illusion that they themselves will not be targeted. As long as this illusion holds, they don't have to take action against Islamic terrorism.

As for what Goldberg says, he has a point: Europeans (especially leftist-elites) like the groveling, apologetic Jew who is busy shedding any Jewishness that may cling to him. They dislike the patriotic, proud, and ready-to-fight Jew. They dislike Israel because it is the national embodiment of the latter kind of Jew.



Anonymous kh123 January 24, 2015 3:39 AM  

"...the Islamization of Europe was better than a Christian Europe for ethical and theological reasons – as a punishment against Christians for persecuting the Jews..."

Sounds quite a bit like (IIRC) Finsbury Mosque's Abu Hamza, Islam's answer to Cap't Ahab, Popeye, and Maximilian all rolled into one. His spiel was that the wreckage from the Challenger explosion having fallen on Palestine... Texas was as much a clear sign of divine judgment on the Jews as it was on the West.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 3:52 AM  

@ An Israeli

> They dislike the patriotic, proud, and ready-to-fight Jew. They dislike Israel because it is the national embodiment of the latter kind of Jew.

Everybody loves dead Jews, which is why they go to worship at Auschwitz every year. (hat-tip to Rabbi Tovia Singer)

But seriously folks, isn't Goldman saying he has nothing to say to Pro-EU Europeans? I may be reading it wrong, but he sounds like he is a nationalist sympathizer.

the Europeans grew weary of their contentious national identities. They agreed to become nothing in particular. Patriotism is an obscenity in Germany, a joke in Italy, a curse in Spain, a relic in England, and a faux pas in France. To declare one’s self a Jewish patriot, a Zionist, transgresses the boundary of civilized discourse in today’s Europe.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 3:55 AM  

Efrati wrote in response that the Islamization of Europe was better than a Christian Europe for ethical and theological reasons – as a punishment against Christians for persecuting the Jews and the fact that Christianity, as opposed to Islam, is considered "idolatry" from a halachic point of view....

Hey, don't spill the beans YET. We always knew that what you were about, but don't put it on RECORD.

Anonymous kh123 January 24, 2015 3:57 AM  

...Columbia.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 24, 2015 4:13 AM  

These hebes egos are writing checks that their bodies can't cash. Europeans jealous of jews? Seriously? These clowns have never built anything! They couldn't put up a ready made tent to save their lives and they believe they built a Civilization?
These cretins will never rule the World. Their projection of their weaknesses onto us and their wild delusions of grandeur show just how insane they are.
Whom Gods destroy, they first drive Mad. These guys are done. Its about time to stick a fork in them.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 4:28 AM  

On further review, the statement by Goldman and R. Efrati also share some similarities, the difference being Goldman does not praise Islam.

And they differ in that R. Efrati did not think he was speaking for public consumption, whereas Goldman was.

Anonymous An Israeli January 24, 2015 4:38 AM  

But seriously folks, isn't Goldman saying he has nothing to say to Pro-EU Europeans? I may be reading it wrong, but he sounds like he is a nationalist sympathizer.

That's the way I read it too. I think he would have no problem speaking with Nigel Farage, or his counterparts on the continent.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 24, 2015 4:46 AM  

The jews are only natonalist when it comes to themselves. For Whites, they want deracinated and dispossessed if not dead. Make no mistake, they HATE us. Its envy. They want to be like Europeans who can conquer the world and build Civilizations and Empires, but they never will. Just look at the Palestine Experiment and thats all you need to know about them. No matter how much money they print they're too cheap to spend it. They lie, cheat and steal and can't understand why anyone has a problem with it.
Clueless.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 4:46 AM  

No, it is European nationalists, not pro-EU Europeans, that he expresses his loathing for.

You'll get a much better picture by reading the entire text, but here's a few examples:

"In the past, each European nation that fancied itself God’s instrument on earth set out to humiliate, expel, or even exterminate the Jews, for how could France or Spain or Russia or Germany be the Chosen Nation when the Jews claimed that status?"

"One learns this most clearly from the great German-Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig, who argued the secret of European identity was the desire of every nation to be chosen in the flesh. As I wrote in this space on the anniversary of the First World War, “The unquiet urge of each nation to be chosen in its own skin began with the first conversion of Europe’s pagans; it was embedded in European Christendom at its founding. Christian chroniclers cast the newly-baptized European monarchs in the role of biblical kings, and their nations in the role of the biblical Israel."

---

I don't know what his feelings are about EU, but he clearly hates the European nations.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 4:57 AM  

> I don't know what his feelings are about EU, but he clearly hates the European nations.

He IS a proponent of American Exceptionalism, so maybe. The question is, what will he do if/when America goes the way of Europe?

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:01 AM  

What do you mean, "maybe"? He's pretty clear about hating the nations.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 5:03 AM  

Then why does he go on to decry the pro-Eu revulsion of nationalists?

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:04 AM  

Can you put that sentence in a simpler way? It has so many words that reverse the meaning that it is making my head spin.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:09 AM  

I mean, the way I read it, it asks "why does he speak against the nationalists' hatred of the EU?" To which, I'd go, because he hates the nations, DUH!

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:13 AM  

Or perhaps you have some fundamental misunderstanding of the EU, and think that "nationalist" means pro-EU, where in reality it means anti-EU.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 5:14 AM  

> Can you put that sentence in a simpler way

My bad. How about this?

He says:

the Europeans grew weary of their contentious national identities. They agreed to become nothing in particular. Patriotism is an obscenity in Germany, a joke in Italy, a curse in Spain, a relic in England, and a faux pas in France.

(They did not all agree to become nothing in particular.........the elites did.)

Then he says:

To declare one’s self a Jewish patriot, a Zionist, transgresses the boundary of civilized discourse in today’s Europe.

(Thereby establishing his credentials as a pro-nationalist.)

Now, if he is reserving the right of nationalism only for his own people, then we have a problem.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:15 AM  

"Now, if he is reserving the right of nationalism only for his own people, then we have a problem."

What the hell, zeno? He is very explicit about that. You didn't read the article, did you?

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:16 AM  

I mean, the article is quite comical because usually Jews try to HIDE the "nationalism for me, but not for thee" -game, but he outright states that.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 5:20 AM  

> You didn't read the article, did you?

Did so.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:21 AM  

Well, then I don't know what to say. I mean, everything he talks about is the nations, from before EU was even conceived. I cannot imagine how it could be read like you do.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 5:36 AM  

Goldman has written in praise of American nationalism, and Russian nationalism. He posits one of the causes of declining demographics of Europe and Islam as Postnationalim in his book How Civilizations Die , so maybe that has coloured my reading of the one column.


Anonymous Steve January 24, 2015 5:37 AM  

Europeans hate Jews because European national identity from the outset was a dreadful parody of Jewish identity

No idea what this is meant to mean.

But he seems to think Europeans are obsessed with Jews, as he is with Europeans.

But most Europeans spend about as much time thinking about Jews as they do Aleutian Islanders.

Strange, but true.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:40 AM  

No idea what this is meant to mean.

Again, read the article. He is very clear about what it means. He thinks European nations were originally founded out of envy towards Israel. They were founded because they wanted to all be the Chosen Nation.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:41 AM  

I repeat two quotes:


"In the past, each European nation that fancied itself God’s instrument on earth set out to humiliate, expel, or even exterminate the Jews, for how could France or Spain or Russia or Germany be the Chosen Nation when the Jews claimed that status?"

"One learns this most clearly from the great German-Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig, who argued the secret of European identity was the desire of every nation to be chosen in the flesh. As I wrote in this space on the anniversary of the First World War, “The unquiet urge of each nation to be chosen in its own skin began with the first conversion of Europe’s pagans; it was embedded in European Christendom at its founding. Christian chroniclers cast the newly-baptized European monarchs in the role of biblical kings, and their nations in the role of the biblical Israel."

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 5:46 AM  

I've never heard of this rabbi, and I know of no Israeli who shares his views about Europe.

That's great and all; the Israelis I know don't either. However, there are certainly a number of Jews in America and Europe who appear to harbor similar views as they have actively agitated to bring more Mahometans into both countries.


Now, if he is reserving the right of nationalism only for his own people, then we have a problem.

He is.

"In the past, each European nation that fancied itself God’s instrument on earth set out to humiliate, expel, or even exterminate the Jews, for how could France or Spain or Russia or Germany be the Chosen Nation when the Jews claimed that status?"

This doesn't bode well for the relationship between Jews and the "God has uniquely blessed America" crowd.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:48 AM  

There seems to be some North American mental disorder at play here, that allows you to read very plain words, yet refuse to believe their obvious meaning because it goes against your preconceived notions about Jews.

Anonymous Steve January 24, 2015 5:52 AM  

He thinks European nations were originally founded out of envy towards Israel. They were founded because they wanted to all be the Chosen Nation.

Oh. Well, that's retarded.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 5:52 AM  

Here is another article from October that covers similar territory:

Why Europe Is Irrational About Israel

Europe’s derangement has deeper roots. Post-nationalist Europeans, to be sure, distrust and despise all forms of nationalism. But Israeli nationalism does not offend Europe merely because it is one more kind of nationalism. From its founding, Europe has been haunted by the idea of Israel. Its first states emerged as an attempt to appropriate the election of Israel.

He does seem to have a boner for Europe.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 5:53 AM  

Oh. Well, that's retarded.

Roger that, Cpt. Obvious.

Anonymous Steve January 24, 2015 5:56 AM  

"In the past, each European nation that fancied itself God’s instrument on earth set out to humiliate, expel, or even exterminate the Jews, for how could France or Spain or Russia or Germany be the Chosen Nation when the Jews claimed that status?"

So, nothing to do with the Jews managing to piss off their hosts. I see.

The Europeans went to the expense and trouble of deporting them for abstract ideological reason, that nobody had heard of till now.

Right.

Blogger Rantor January 24, 2015 6:08 AM  

Let me see, Rome, which firmly had its foot on Israel's throat and great pride in an Empire ruled by a God-man, was jealous of Israel? Divine right of Kings is a notion predating Israel. Ancient Babylonian, Egyptian and Chinese rulers claimed divinity long before Israel had her first King. People powerful enough to rule vast empires often accepted praise as some sort of chosen person, demigod, or God.

There is an unhealthy conceit in people who imagine that others hate them for being better, when they may just hate them for being other.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 24, 2015 6:13 AM  

The Jews I've known maintain that the Jewish relationship with America is unique.

May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants — while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid. -- George Washington to the Newport Hebrew Congregation


But there was also this; "...the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

No king nor caliph nor khan ever demanded more from the Jewish people than George Washington did with that one sentence.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 6:23 AM  

Encyclopedia Britannica:

After the dissolution of the Roman Empire, the idea arose of Europe as one large church-state, called Christendom. Christendom was thought to consist of two distinct groups of functionaries: the sacerdotium, or ecclesiastical hierarchy, and the imperium, or secular leaders. In theory, these two groups complemented each other, attending to people’s spiritual and temporal needs, respectively....

Now add a tablespoon of Replacement Theology (supersessionism) and stir, and you get this........

Goldman: “The unquiet urge of each nation to be chosen in its own skin began with the first conversion of Europe’s pagans; it was embedded in European Christendom at its founding. Christian chroniclers cast the newly-baptized European monarchs in the role of biblical kings, and their nations in the role of the biblical Israel."

Blogger Sherwood family January 24, 2015 6:25 AM  

I've read this one and some of the others Goldman has written. Yep...his basic thesis is that Europe is a dying civilization but that the Jews are not. He has argued in various writings that Europe is dying because the Europeans have abandoned Christianity (and with it the Judaic underpinnings that made Europe successful) but his argument goes on to state, in essence, that European Christianity is basically a ersatz version of Jewish Chosen-ness and that as such there is nothing the Europeans can do about it since 1) they are not Chosen (but the Jews are) 2) attempts to be Chosen are mere imitations of the real thing and will be unsuccessful and 3) that when this imitation Chosen-ness proves unsuccessful there is nothing really left for Europeans to do but to choke on their bitterness and envy toward the Jews and engage in ever greater and more self-destructive displays of anti-Semitism.

But this strikes me as not only historically absurd but more an inverted projection of Goldman's own feelings toward Europe.

It is historically absurd because Hellenic civilization and Roman civilization rose more or less without Jewish input. Their institutions were found prior in time to any but the most rudimentary contact with the Jews. So Roman institutions and Greek institutions and achievements are NOT a parody or inferior copy of Jewish ones...they arose wholly separately from Jewish institutions.

It also appears to be an inverted projection of Goldman's own views (I may be misjudging him here). Goldman appears to view European culture (especially German culture of the late 19th century and early 20th century) as the pinnacle of human achievement: i.e. general literacy, cleanliness, order, philosophical thinking, scientific advancement, artistic improvement. All of these things are true of the Germany that existed in the late 19th century until WWI. And it is within this culture that Jews in Europe achieved their greatest literary, scientific, philosophical, and cultural attainments. Yet, in the aftermath of Germany's loss in WWI the Jews became viewed with suspicion in Germany and were eventually largely destroyed in the Holocaust or driven away.

Israel, in contrast, while possessing much that is scientifically advanced, has not produced great culture. It's art, music, literature, etc. are not particularly noted globally. There are some talented artists, musicians, writers in Israel but there is no culturally significant Israeli oeuvre. The place where Jewish attainments in culture are the greatest are in the U.S., despite the fact that the U.S. is almost completely gentile by population. There is something that is incongruous here. If the Jews are Chosen by God as a light to the gentiles, why is it only among the gentiles that they are capable of any notable cultural achievements? Amongst their own they essentially go about life normally like most people and their achievements (except for some in the scientific realm/technological realm) are largely unnoticed.

It seems that Goldman resents this reality. He appears to resent that fact that only as a kind of cultural remora are the Jews able to achieve greatness. His pronouncements on Europe's impending death seems to be a kind of perverse hope...if Europe dies and the gentiles (the European ones at any rate) cease to exist as nations, then the Jews will be preeminent. Their achievements and cultural importance will finally be able to stand on their own and the Jews will assume their rightful place as not only the Chosen people but the Chosen with no global peer.

Goldman has stated that for U.S. Christianity to survive it would have to Judaize. What exactly he means by that is not clear but he has in his columns at PJMedia made that statement.

In short: I think what Goldman expresses is more of a wish than a prediction. Reports of Europe's demise seem to me to be exaggerated despite Goldman's views to the contrary.





Blogger Rantor January 24, 2015 6:26 AM  

Rabbi Efrati must suffer some form of irrational hatred for the gentile as his article makes it clear that he blames all modern Christian Europeans for the programs and holocausts of the past. Many western nations have bent over backwards to make reparations and support independent Israel since the end of WWII. His ingratitude is showing.

I have no enmity for Israel, I believe it is the historical homeland of the twelve tribes. It is theirs.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 6:29 AM  

Was it Israel who asked to have a king like the Nations, or was it the Nations who asked to have a king like Israel?

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 6:36 AM  

Israel is the copycat here. The goyim were there first. Then, when God eventually granted them their wish after they whined enough, now they have the monopoly on the concept of kingdom? Doesn't work that way, pal.

Blogger Rantor January 24, 2015 6:39 AM  

Markku, exactly... Israel sought to be like the nations, and that was a sin.

Looking at the numbers, the world is 32% Christian, 23% Muslim, and 0.22% Jewish. The deceived Rabbi wants to see the end of western (nominal) Christianity in favor of global Muslim dominance? He thinks the Muslims are more honest?

Perhaps they are more honest in their hatred for Israel? What is this guy thinking with?

Anonymous An Israeli January 24, 2015 6:52 AM  

Rabbi Efrati must suffer some form of irrational hatred for the gentile as his article makes it clear that he blames all modern Christian Europeans for the programs and holocausts of the past. Many western nations have bent over backwards to make reparations and support independent Israel since the end of WWII. His ingratitude is showing.

This Israeli does not blame any current European Christian for what happened to the Jews in the past. To do so is silly.

However, the so-called support European nations have afforded Israel has been lukewarm and periodical at best.

I can give a few examples:

1. After 1967 France had a weapons embargo on Israel and even tried to avoid delivery of battleships Israel had already paid for.

2. In 1973, all European nations refused to allow American planes to land on their soil, en route to Israel. These planes were carrying crucial supplies to the Israeli Army which was at that time fighting for the life of the nation.

3. Just recently the UNGA passed a resolution calling on Israel to pay damages to Lebanon. What for? In the 2006 war, started by Hezbollah, the Lebanese militia, Israel damaged some oil tanks during that war. European countries voted for that resolution. They supported the aggressor, the country that initiated that war, and they call this friendship?

4. Just before the recent spate of Islamic terror attacks on France, France voted for the establishment of a Palestinian terror state on the flank of Israel, all this without demanding that the Palestinians declare that this will end their various claims vis-a-vis Israel.

5. European governments give approx. 100 million euros each year to a variety of NGOs and self-declared "Human Rights Organizations" which strive to destroy Israel through lawfare and other means.

The bottom line is that Europe is the most fickle of friends to Israel. It always says it supports us but its actions belie that sentiment.

The funny thing is that most Israelis like Europe and Europeans. We wish them to have strong, healthy, prosperous nations. They do not feel the same way about us.

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 7:18 AM  

The funny thing is that most Israelis like Europe and Europeans.

That is the perception I have had in my dealing with Israelis in Europe.

We wish them to have strong, healthy, prosperous nations.

I think most Europeans are less anti-Israel than they are anti-trouble in the Middle East. Remember, a lot of the PLO activity spilled over into Europe in the 1970s. If they are stupid about appeasement, that doesn't make them anti-Israeli. Remember, they were stupid about it at home too.

Anonymous Stilicho January 24, 2015 7:31 AM  

Goldberg just wants to hitch his wagon to whatever horse is currently in the lead. Right now he thinks it's China, so goodbye America. The whole Uber Juden thing is a bit bizarre, but seems like a secular variation on the Chosen People theme.

Anonymous Salt January 24, 2015 7:39 AM  

like the hypocritical Christianity which appears pure but is fundamentally corrupt - Rabbi Baruch Efrati

And why had the Israelis wandered about the Earth for so many generations? Markku is right. The Rabbi is not one to point fingers.

Blogger Hd Hammer January 24, 2015 7:41 AM  

"1. After 1967 France had a weapons embargo on Israel and even tried to avoid delivery of battleships Israel had already paid for."

What is it with France and refusals to deliver Navy vessels?

Blogger StevenInBrooklynNY January 24, 2015 7:46 AM  

This post and the comments are both fascinating and very disturbing. First, the rabbi cited strikes me as a wacko. He does not represent the views of any significant portion of orthodox Jews in Israel or elsewhere. Or any non-orthodox Jews. Yeah, there are bizarre Jews who think it'a necessary to Photoshop-out PM Merkel from images of a rally in Paris, but you're going to point to that at normative Judaism?

Goldman is anti-EU, and pro-nation state. He mourns the lack of identity in Europe. He laments the fact that Christianity has largely died in Europe. He is also saying that secular Europeans don't like Jews because Jews have and celebrate identity,

As for Chosen-ness and imitations of Chosen-ness, well, yeah, the Jews are still here, so maybe they were/are Chosen. Whatever. America was founded as the New Israel. As a Jew, am I offended by that? Flattered, maybe, but offended?

I just don't get how so many commenters ascribe an anti-Christian bent to Goldman. That's just weird of you commenters.

PS: Jews in Israel haven't created much? Really?!

Anonymous Stilicho January 24, 2015 7:57 AM  

NAJALT? Live by the group identity, die by the group identity.

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 7:58 AM  

He does not represent the views of any significant portion of orthodox Jews in Israel or elsewhere.

That's great and all, but so what? The rules of the game have been well established. If a Jew opens his mouth and says anything negative about Christians or the West, it's going to be rubbed in every Jewish face, repeatedly, and every Jew will be deemed collectively guilty of anti-Christian, anti-Western sentiment.

Sound familiar?

See, now you have a choice. You can try to marginalize me by attacking me as being anti-Semitic, which I am not, or you can start telling all the Jews who play that game that perhaps it is time to drop it. Because the Muslims have already learned to play it and now the Christians are picking it up as well.

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 7:59 AM  

What is it with France and refusals to deliver Navy vessels?

I would assume they're trying to hide the fact that they aren't actually done.

Blogger njartist January 24, 2015 8:15 AM  

The Jew now believes himself to be free of constraints to declare aloud what he truly believes about white Europeans; and given that the ten tribes of the Israelites are part of white Europeans - that includes Euro-Americans, this Jew is calling for the destruction of the Israelites as well; furthermore, it appears that the Jew believes the destruction is far enough along that he can exalt in it without consequences: just as he did in the 1920s when the Jew declared Communism to be Judaism.

Let them be given to the Babylonians once more.

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 8:15 AM  

There is a fundamental problem with the Jews, the Christians, and the seculars right now. Most of them don't realize that the Clash of Civilizations is genuinely upon us. The jihadists can certainly win. Their defeat is not guaranteed and the conflict will span generations, possibly centuries.

Many Jews and seculars still wrongly think they can take advantage of the jihadists to improve their long-term position vis-a-vis the Christians. But this is only true in the short-term, as the history of Islamic expansion indicates that moderate Islamic rule will turn extremist, which is why the descendants of the Jews who welcomed the Islamic expansion into Christian Spain eventually found themselves fleeing to Christian territory to escape the massacres that were much more comprehensive than the persecution their predecessors and descendants eventually faced.

The religious history of the world can be summarized in eight words which I shall presently keep to myself. How it plays out will tend to depend upon which of the four groups, Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Seculars, can best resist their historical tendency. Neither the Seculars nor the Jews will rule. And both will be much better off as respected minorities under Christian rule than eliminated under Islamic rule, even if they do not see it that way after centuries under Christendom.

Remember, the higher up the chain you go, the simpler the possible outcomes and strategies become. Grand Strategy is very simple and the available options are very limited.

Anonymous rienzi January 24, 2015 8:17 AM  

"Chosen" people. But "Chosen" to be what precisely? "A light to the nations?"

Almost without exception, the members of The Tribe I've known, have been proud as Lucifer, constantly chattering about their putative genius, modern day versions of Miles Gloriosus. When they think that no one but members of The Tribe are around, their comments on the goys would turn even the most committed dispenstionalist into a raving nazi.

My own theory is that they ARE "the chosen". God sought out the single worst group of people on the planet to show us that: "If I can love and have concern for these, the worst douchebags in history, never think that I can fail to love you, despite your many faults".

Anonymous Difster January 24, 2015 8:23 AM  

When the time comes for the next Great Purge, I don't think the Europeans are going to care whether you're Muslim or Jewish, you'll either be forced to leave or die.

Mandatory DNA tests anyone?

Blogger stats January 24, 2015 8:24 AM  

The funny thing is that most Israelis like Europe and Europeans. We wish them to have strong, healthy, prosperous nations. They do not feel the same way about us.

Perhaps, but your breathren in Europe and the US almost always seem to be behind the latest multiculture juggernaut. I think the assumption amongst many Europeans is that this is an effort by Jews to dilute white European power.

Anonymous MrGreenMan January 24, 2015 8:31 AM  

Sound like the views of Maimonides. Lots of Jews hate Christianity. This is a common belief among America Jews once you get far enough in conversation.

OpenID cailcorishev January 24, 2015 8:37 AM  

Goldman has stated that for U.S. Christianity to survive it would have to Judaize. What exactly he means by that is not clear but he has in his columns at PJMedia made that statement.

I'm curious about that too. I've known Christians who liked to follow some of the Old Covenant ways, like celebrating Passover. Somehow I don't suppose that's what he means, though. He probably just means "thinking and acting more like Jews" which comes down to whatever he thinks is superior about them.

Blogger Hd Hammer January 24, 2015 8:44 AM  

VD - "There is a fundamental problem with the Jews, the Christians, and the seculars right now. Most of them don't realize that the Clash of Civilizations is genuinely upon us"

And the first one to figure it out can properly plan for and the action in this clash. Although by then options will be limited.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 8:47 AM  

And the first one to figure it out can properly plan for and the action in this clash

I just pictured Putin with a little smirk on his face.

Blogger Hd Hammer January 24, 2015 8:52 AM  

@Markku - "I just pictured Putin with a little smirk on his face."

Yep, Putin may be baaaad Russian man, but heck does he look after his own!

Anonymous Difster January 24, 2015 8:53 AM  

I wonder if the guillotine is going to make a comeback in France?

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 8:54 AM  

Mjuslim? Njet, Rossiya never had any Mjuslim.

Blogger Rantor January 24, 2015 8:59 AM  

@An Israeli

Yes, many states do not agree with Israel and cause trouble. Nonetheless Israel has received billions in reparations from Germany since WWII, the latest I can find being $1B in 2013 to aid pensioners. The US provides billions in aid. A quick search of the internet reveals that Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Netherlands, Norway, etc. all set up some type of reparation program after the war, as did others.

You can argue whatever you want, but many countries in Western Europe and some of Eastern Europe took action to compensate the Jewish victims of the holocaust. In addition to money, formal apologies by heads of state were made. For some it will never be enough. They need to learn to forgive.

Finally, I do insist that Rabbi Efrati is wrong in thinking that a Muslim dominated world will be better for Israel, or that Muslims are more honest than Christians for that matter. BOth ideas are ridiculous.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 9:07 AM  

Mjaybe few Mjuslim once. Go somewhere. Rossiya nyet know. Mjaybe home. Disappear. Poof.

Anonymous Samuel Scott January 24, 2015 9:33 AM  

Meanwhile, Portugal (and Spain as well) is offering Jews <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.638515>the right to return after having expelled them centuries ago</a>.

Anonymous Orville January 24, 2015 9:44 AM  

Tangentially, I was amused by the latest designer yarmulke. It's a tiny little hairpiece matching your own hair color that you clip on over your hair. I guess Shatner can now be considered observant. The whole reason was fear of being targeted.

Next up invisibility cloak prayer shawls. Behold, the invisible jew.

OpenID simplytimothy January 24, 2015 9:57 AM  

One has to put them on the proverbial couch and coax it out of them: Europeans hate Jews because European national identity from the outset was a dreadful parody of Jewish identity. One learns this most clearly from the great German-Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig, who argued the secret of European identity was the desire of every nation to be chosen in the flesh.

erg.

Ok. let's look at Roxenzwieg

From death - from the fear of death - arises the perception of the transcendent, his book begins, and in the face of the fear of death, one proceeds - to life, as he avers in the book's last sentence. But the path to life requires a life outside of time, that is, the hope of immortality. Man cannot abide his mortal existence, cannot tolerate the fear of death, without the prospect of life eternal.

Is it true that fear is the driver?

Wittaker Chambers recalls a boyhood meeting with God, not via 'fear of death' but, rather, a field of thistles and goldfinches:

The other experience occurred in my early childhood. One day, I wandered off alone and found myself before a high hedge that I had never seen before. It was so tall that I could not see over it and so thick that I could not see through it. But by lying flat against the ground I wriggled between the privet stems.

I stood up, on the other side, in a field covered from end to end, as high as my head, with thistles, in full bloom. Clinging to the purple flowers, hovering over them, or twittering and dipping in flight, were dozens of goldfinches--little golden birds with black contrasting wings and caps. They did not pay the slightest attention to me, as if they had never seen a boy before.

The sight was so unexpected, the beauty was so absolute, that I thought I could not stand it and held to the hedge for support. Out loud, I sad: "God...."


It appears "The great German-Jewish theologian Franz Rosenzweig" missed something very important.

Anonymous gollum January 24, 2015 10:06 AM  

The religious history of the world can be summarized in eight words which I shall presently keep to myself.

If it guesses wrong, we eats them whole, precious.

Anonymous Arthur Ruppin January 24, 2015 10:21 AM  

And tons of other Jews say that the goyim are just the hand of god punishing the Jews for their faithlessness, and for their temerity in establishing a Jewish state in Israel. That "new state in Israel" thing is Moshiach's job.

What can we do on our end, An Israeli, to encourage Jews to make aliyah, reach their full potential as Jews, and stop living stunted, deformed lives in Exile? And what can we do to send yordim back home where they belong? Hitler went a bit too far, of course. I was thinking something more along the lines of an American Holot out in the Arizona desert as the "stick" and cash subsidies to leave (like the ones Netanyahu offers his Africans) as the "carrot".

What do you think? Any better ideas?

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 24, 2015 10:23 AM  

It amazes me that jews today still do that chosen schtick! Everyone now knows that the Israelites turned their backs on God and were handed into the hands of the Babylonians. From that they never recovered.
The Holy Land was the ancient Garden of Eden. Even poor Bible Scholars know that Eden was between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. They exist today in Iraq. Palestine is not even close to where Ancient Israel used to be.
They say they are Jews but they are not they are the Synagogue of Satan. So sayeth Jesus Christ in the Book of Revelations.
If they've been chosen its not by God. Maybe they can be the Lamb in this second act eh?

Anonymous Stilicho January 24, 2015 10:25 AM  

Meanwhile, Portugal (and Spain as well) is offering Jews href="http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.638515>the right to return after having expelled them centuries ago.

"It's a trrraaaap!" Adm. Ahkbar.

If it guesses wrong, we eats them whole, precious.

That's 9.

Blogger S1AL January 24, 2015 10:26 AM  

"My own theory is that they ARE "the chosen". God sought out the single worst group of people on the planet to show us that: "If I can love and have concern for these, the worst douchebags in history, never think that I can fail to love you, despite your many faults".


And the LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”

Blogger Sherwood family January 24, 2015 10:34 AM  

I think SteveInBrooklyn did not understand what I said. I did not say that Jews in Israel had not created much. They've obviously created a great deal and in my original comment I mentioned their involvement in technology. What I did say is that they have achieved little in the way of cultural significance outside of Israel. Jews who have achieved cultural significance have done so, with very few exceptions, as part of the diaspora, not among Israelis.

Hollywood...culturally significant...and no one underestimates Jewish influence there. Literature...for the most part in the United States and Western Europe. Music...lots of Jewish performers but the kind of music are they usually playing...is European or American.

Jews have probably done best in the Anglosphere but they have also made significant contributions elsewhere.

But they seem to do that the most...and this is the point I was trying to make...when attached to a gentile host society. Preferably a tolerant one.

Is it hard to be a minority religious group...yes...no doubt about it. But for whatever reason, Israel, as the Jewish homeland, is not the locus of Jewish achievement...European Christian societies (and I would argue that the United States largely falls into that category, with some caveats) are.

Or would anyone argue that the venerable Jewish communities in China or Yemen or Morocco or Iran or Iraq have made similar achievements?

Jews and Christians of European origin have produced more together than Jews in any other set of societies. Yes, Jews under the Ottomans and under Muslims in Spain did produce some things that were noteworthy but there is no comparison to that and Jews in Germany until WWII or in the United States, or France, or England have produced.

Have these same groups suffered discrimination...yes. But over all the track record for cultural achievement is greater in Christian European states than anywhere.

What I am trying to get at is that talking about Europeans as an ersatz Chosen group that will only ever be bitter at their failure to be Jewish is dumb on its face. Europeans have a conflicted past with Jews, no one argues otherwise. But Jews have done better overall within a Christian European context than in any other.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 24, 2015 10:37 AM  

Europe can't be saved by expelling or eradicating Muslims only; Jews must also be removed.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 24, 2015 10:38 AM  

Muslims and Jews out: liberation for Europe !

Anonymous Dan in Tx January 24, 2015 10:39 AM  

An Israeli : "However, the so-called support European nations have afforded Israel has been lukewarm and periodical at best....The bottom line is that Europe is the most fickle of friends to Israel. It always says it supports us but its actions belie that sentiment."

Yeah, like that whole USS Liberty thing never happened.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 24, 2015 10:39 AM  

Israel was stolen from the Palestinians. Anything not Palestinian was built with American money and American engineering. Without the British Empire these clowns would still be roaming in back alleys running drugs and prostitution.
I wouldn't consider Hollywood to be an achievement would you? Its had influence, but only because it has no competitors, and no its not because Jews are good at business. It has something to do with Legalized Counterfeiting Rings called Central Banks like the Federal Reserve that steals from everyone while ruining the world.

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 11:01 AM  

What I did say is that they have achieved little in the way of cultural significance outside of Israel.

I think the revival of Hebrew as a living language is a considerable cultural achievement. Even if it isn't of any significance outside of Israel.

Anonymous Samuel Scott January 24, 2015 11:10 AM  

Israel, in contrast, while possessing much that is scientifically advanced, has not produced great culture. It's art, music, literature, etc. are not particularly noted globally.

Acquaintances of mine here in Israel are classical musicians who travel with European orchestras. When I lived in Boston, I knew several Israelis who studied at Berklee College of Music -- and I think I remember reading once recently that the head of the college said that there's a lot of undeveloped talent in Israel.

That being said, there isn't a lot here as compared to other countries. It's hard for a country to invest decently in culture when a crapload of money has to go towards defense and tech. Guns and butter.

Anonymous Samuel Scott January 24, 2015 11:14 AM  

"My own theory is that they ARE "the chosen". God sought out the single worst group of people on the planet

Actually, you're not THAT far off in normative Jewish thought. There's a midrash -- an allegorical story -- that God offered all of the other nations of the world the Torah, and they all declined. God was like, "Ah, crap -- the lowly Jews are the world's only hope." God offers them the Torah and said if they don't accept it, he will destroy the world.

We took it. But the point of the story is for Jews always to remain humble. We were chosen last.

Anonymous Anubis January 24, 2015 11:20 AM  

"Israel, in contrast, while possessing much that is scientifically advanced,"

They have the best tech money can buy or can be stolen. Remember Einstein stole relativity from an Irish/Italian physicist.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother January 24, 2015 11:27 AM  

Anubis,

I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 24, 2015 11:54 AM  

"We will never forgive Europe's Christians for slaughtering millions of our children, women and elderly… Not just in the recent Holocaust, but throughout the generations, in a consistent manner which characterizes all factions of hypocritical Christianity…"

Clear enough.

The Holocaust made no difference. It was like scuffing the paint on an oncoming tank. As Jews here have often rightly boasted, very shortly after the Holocaust Jews were in charge of the whole "Western" world, with their own state to boot. As irrelevant as it was in power terms, it was even more irrelevant to Jewish intentions, which were fixed toward whites and Christians centuries before.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 24, 2015 12:02 PM  

Well...Islam's more reformed Judaism than anything else, anyway, so it's not unnatural for a Jew - perhaps especially an orthodox Jew - to think more highly of it at a theological level.

Also, there's a philosophical strain in Judaism that sees a particular cycle of events. IIRC, and I may not, fully, it goes something like this: sin against God, get punished, recognize the sin, recognize the righteousness of the punishment, request forgiveness / make atonement, be forgiven, with all that operating at a collective level. To some extent, Efrati may be thinking of, or unconsciously emoting on, all of that.

But then, too, there are pond scummy gallows bait and assholes in every group.

Anonymous Abie Gefiltefish January 24, 2015 12:20 PM  

"Israel was stolen from the Palestinians."

Yup. It is called "conquest". And the Jews hold Israel by "right of conquest". You point is ... what exactly?

Just like we killed our Indians and took their land, the Jews killed their "Indians" and took their land.

Settlers/colonists always want to do it peacefully in the beginning, but once the locals start resisting you really don't have a choice in the matter.

Massasoit was nice to the tiny Pilgrim colony in 1620. Whites made themselves useful to the Indians. But by 1675 after several thousand white settlers showed up, it was clear to Massasoit's son, Metacom (aka "King Philip"), that there was no end to these European refugees and that the lebensraum they were seeking could not be tolerated. So Metacom started King Philip's War and lost. In just 55 years things went from happy multiculturalism to a war of extermination.

Likewise Israel. It is the way of the world. The only proper response its follow your gut feel and exterminate the interlopers in the very beginning, but even that (as the history of the Jamestown plantation proves) can be difficult.

Demographics is destiny, as the Jewish colonists knew in Palestine and the American colonists knew in America.

Blogger Nate January 24, 2015 12:23 PM  

"Israel was stolen from the Palestinians."

Oh please. the Palestinians are the assholes of the arab world. The only reason the arabs want palestine to exist is so they have someplace to send the whiney helpless hapless palestinians in their own countries.

Plenty of folks from that part of the world would rather deal with jews than palestinians. My egyptian buddy refuses to even consider them human beings.

Anonymous paradox January 24, 2015 12:23 PM  

There is a fundamental problem with the Jews, the Christians, and the seculars right now. Most of them don't realize that the Clash of Civilizations is genuinely upon us.

Think it's more of a clash of three or four civilizations, the Jewish and secular are somewhat interchangeable. No the Jewish one doesn't have that many numbers as the Christian or Muslim ones. However, the Jewish element finds away to power in their host country.

Does no good for Christendom to pay attention to the Muslim threat only and not the other two.

Anonymous Abie Gefiltefish January 24, 2015 12:24 PM  

"Well...Islam's more reformed Judaism than anything else, anyway, so it's not unnatural for a Jew - perhaps especially an orthodox Jew - to think more highly of it at a theological level."

The Reform Jews (ca. 1900) called Christianity and Islam the two "daughter religions" of Judaism.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2015 12:49 PM  

Judaism ended in 70 AD, as foretold. Modern Jews hate God because He reached out the hand of reconciliation to the Gentile (i.e. The "Goy"). The Jew thought he was chosen to rule humanity, not redeem it. The modern Jew isn't in God's camp. He's chosen Lucifer and the world.

Blogger Shimshon January 24, 2015 12:50 PM  

@Sherwood family

There's a cultural shift going on, but it's less visible to an outsider.

What is the Jews' great "cultural" gift to humanity? The Torah (and further, the rest of the Jewish Bible).

No Jew who knows anything seriously disputes that Israel is once again the world center for Torah. Hopefully this will continue to increase, and spread into the nations, and we will return to our ancient reputation as the found of G-d's word in this world.

OpenID cailcorishev January 24, 2015 12:55 PM  

What is the Jews' great "cultural" gift to humanity? The Torah (and further, the rest of the Jewish Bible).

I continue to be entirely flummoxed as to why anyone finds Jews to be arrogant.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 1:02 PM  

The Reform Jews (ca. 1900) called Christianity and Islam the two "daughter religions" of Judaism.

Yeah, I think that's fair from their perspective. I mean, if we're going to not protest them considering Judaism still a valid religion, then of course that would logically follow.

Blogger Shimshon January 24, 2015 1:10 PM  

@cailcorishev Yes, because half the population of the world revering the Jews' Bible as the holy Word of G-d has nothing to do with what I just wrote.

The article about Rabbi Efrati is a few years old now. Even if he still sings the same tune, he is obviously astonishingly ignorant of Muslim-Jewish relations. Most Jews, even the Orthodox, do have an inappropriate level of respect the time our ancestors spent living among Muslims. Any "Golden Age" is almost certainly highly overrated, and lasted a very short time anyway.

Vox, by the way, I read recently about pre-WWII France, that it was virtually the only country in the world taking in large numbers of refugees, particularly Jews, from other lands threatened by the Nazis. The state even supported them monetarily. Taking up France's offer was not a smart long-term move in hindsight (but sensible at the time).

Blogger Josh January 24, 2015 1:14 PM  

The religious history of the world can be summarized in eight words which I shall presently keep to myself.

We must secure the existence of our people?

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 1:15 PM  

I read recently about pre-WWII France, that it was virtually the only country in the world taking in large numbers of refugees, particularly Jews, from other lands threatened by the Nazis. The state even supported them monetarily.

Yes, I know. Which makes one wonder why they've turned so strongly against the Jews only 60 years later. In part, it's the Algerians, of course. But it appears to be more than that.

It also raises the question about how long the USA will be Jew-friendly. It is also importing Muslims, after all.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 24, 2015 1:19 PM  

White people did not steal land from anyone. Another Jewish lie. Palestine was not a land of savages like America or Africa. It had a nascent civilization built by the Romans and held by the Ottomans. The Jews did not take land and build cities like settlers in America. They stole houses and estates from their owners using British courts and British troops. This is not legal under English Law, and the result of corruption by greedy Jews buying Judges and undermining laws like here in the United States with absurd crap like "gay marriage".
Theft is theft. Indians didn't have deeds going back hundreds of years that should have been recognized. Taking a house is nowhere the same as taking land and building a house.

Anonymous VD January 24, 2015 1:29 PM  

White people did not steal land from anyone.

Ahem. Yes, they most certainly did. My tribe's reservation is not the land they once held, from which they were forcibly ejected after successfully beating back the initial invasion.

Anonymous Samuel Scott January 24, 2015 1:32 PM  

The Jews did not take land and build cities like settlers in America. They stole houses and estates from their owners using British courts and British troops.

Tel Aviv, the major metropolis where I live, was started in 1909 as a few houses built on sand dunes.

Anonymous Obola January 24, 2015 1:49 PM  

Tel Aviv, the major metropolis where I live, was started in 1909 as a few houses built on sand dunes.

You didn't build that!

Blogger StevenInBrooklynNY January 24, 2015 2:14 PM  

"Israel was stolen from the Palestinians." Is a huge lie, if only because there are more "Palestinians" (a/k/a local Arabs) living in Israel today than there were "Palestinians" living in "Palestine" in 1947.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni January 24, 2015 2:29 PM  

I have a hard time thinking of Bismarck at the Hall of Mirrors in Versailles in Jan. 1871 surveying the coronation of the Emperor of the Germans and thinking to himself, "There, we've finally shown those dirty Juden what a real nation under God is like."
He had other things on his mind.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper January 24, 2015 2:51 PM  

While we are considering the problems at hand , do not forget the issue of the Africans .

Blogger Tom Kratman January 24, 2015 2:52 PM  

"The Reform Jews (ca. 1900) called Christianity and Islam the two "daughter religions" of Judaism."

No doubt. But Christians tend to see Islam as an offshoot of Christianity, if only because of time and scale: It came after, and it is huge. It isn't, though; it's reform Judaism, with some relatively minor Christian influences.

Blogger StevenInBrooklynNY January 24, 2015 3:02 PM  

FWIW, Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism are in the process of at least merging, and, seemingly, dying (at least as something distinct from a watered-down version of Orthodoxy).

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 3:29 PM  

Tel Aviv, the major metropolis where I live, was started in 1909 as a few houses built on sand dunes.

Save your breath, SS. Mr. Sinistar sounds unteachable.

If, however, he wishes to learn, he could try this link:

Mandate for Palestine & International Law

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 3:40 PM  

@ VD

My tribe's reservation is not the land they once held, from which they were forcibly ejected after successfully beating back the initial invasion.


Maybe you should look into the "Right of Return" thingy. Apparently, it is a universal right, according to the Jordanians and Egyptians that call themselves Palestinians.

Anonymous A. Nonymous January 24, 2015 4:06 PM  

I wonder if the guillotine is going to make a comeback in France?

They were using it all the way up to the abolition of capital punishment in the early 1980s, IIRC, and Le Pen has proposed a referendum on re-instituting the death penalty if the FN comes to power, so...

Anonymous gollum January 24, 2015 4:28 PM  

We must secure the existence of our people?

It is fresh? It is tasty?

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 4:38 PM  

This might be similar to what R. Efrat is thinking, only more articulate:

True Clash of Civilizations


Thus, the TRUE CONFLICT OF CIVILIZATIONS we all suffer and in which the West dies is its inner psychological conflict expressed by the increasing WAR by its ruling elites and their fictions against their own citizens. It is the establishment of a global police state using the bogie of jihad, real enough but enabled, deployed and protected by Esau. The pattern precisely follows the ancient drash in which “He [Esau] went to Yishmael and said to him, “Let us join together, I and you, and we will rule the whole world.” This is the ultimate game in which Esau imitates Ishmael, perhaps even taught him the concept of suicide by murder for a branch that attacks its root is a branch that will wither and die.

Doesn't sound much different than what is said here, on ZeroHedge, or other sites, does it? Except it's an observant Jew's perspective.

Blogger StevenInBrooklynNY January 24, 2015 6:42 PM  

I assure you, Orthodox/traditional Jews, and Islamo-wackos have little or nothing in common. The Rabbi's remarks are stupid and offensive.

Anonymous 11B January 24, 2015 6:52 PM  

He does not represent the views of any significant portion of orthodox Jews in Israel or elsewhere.

And Pastor Terry Jones has a congregation of just fifty. Yet he was plastered all over the news for what he said and did.

Blogger Rabbi B January 24, 2015 7:41 PM  

"One would have thought the Jews might have learned . . . that betting on the Mahometans isn't the smart thing to do."

Hmmm . . . How should we place our bets?

On the religion whose whose faithful adherents are committed to destroying the Jew and who believe that although the Jew may "hide behind the rock and tree, the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"

or . . .

On the religion, whose second central tenet is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." and whose adherents are taught to "Love their enemies, bless them that curse them, do good to them that hate them, and pray for them which despitefully use them, and persecute them."

My shekels are on the latter.

Blogger StevenInBrooklynNY January 24, 2015 7:57 PM  

And Pastor Terry Jones has a congregation of just fifty. Yet he was plastered all over the news for what he said and did.

Seriously? Jones is/was viewed as a bizarre, despicable freak, not a normative Christian.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 24, 2015 8:56 PM  

Shimshon: "What is the Jews' great "cultural" gift to humanity? The Torah (and further, the rest of the Jewish Bible)."

This I agree with.

For a pagan or atheist, it's even more impressive, or it ought to be. A fraud, or let's say a creative act, on this scale declares a people of genius. That's assuming we just say: "there is no such god; men did this." What question and answer comes next? "What kind of men? Wow."

From a pagan point of view it makes sense to say, "they must have had the help of a god." (Which, assuming polytheism, cannot be a truthful god, so we're discussing a god of deceit.) Still: wow.

Anonymous Discard January 25, 2015 12:28 AM  

I have to give David Goldberg some credit. He writes of "Real Americans" as being those who identify with the Founding Fathers. A lot better than identifying with Ellis Island, and a whole lot better than identifying with Israel, Mexico, or China. Nobody running for President today would ever admit that such a thing as "Real Americans" even exists.

Anonymous Discard January 25, 2015 12:33 AM  

An Israeli: A battleship is a great big thing with thick armor and very large guns, with at least a 12 inch (30 cm) bore. In 1967, France reneged on a deal to sell Israel a bunch of sea-going patrol boats. The Israelis later snatched them and sailed home. Perhaps you meant "warships", not "battleships".

Anonymous Discard January 25, 2015 12:37 AM  

Shimshon: Where did you read that France was the only country taking in refugees from Nazi Germany before WW2? Of 280,000 Jews who got out of Germany, 240,000 came to the U.S, according to Martin Gilbert, a very mainstream historian and a British Jew.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 25, 2015 12:58 AM  

"I used to like reading Goldberg back when he was Spengler. Now... what is he even trying to say?"

Die.

Anonymous takin' a look January 25, 2015 1:12 AM  

-Titus Didius Tacitus

Die

I don't think you are referring to tooling....

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 25, 2015 1:28 AM  

Nor to the singular of "dice"...

Blogger Shimshon January 25, 2015 2:22 AM  

@Discard

I said that France accepted refugees from countries threatened by Nazi Germany, which was not solely Germany itself. It also wasn't the only country. But it took in large numbers and even offered government assistance. It was called "Atlas of the Jewish World" (http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Jewish-World-Cultural/dp/0871960435) and on France it mentioned this little tidbit. Of course, it also mentioned the perplexity (in light of their pre-war generosity) of France's overzealous roundup of said Jews above and beyond even what the Nazis demanded. I was just skimming through it this last Shabbat.

Blogger glad2meetyou January 25, 2015 2:36 AM  

"Efrati wrote in response that the Islamization of Europe was better than a Christian Europe for ethical and theological reasons – as a punishment against Christians for persecuting the Jews"

This is especially stupid to me. You think the Muslims will persecute the Jews less? You'd rather have those who want to "wipe Israel off the map" in charge than those who created the Jewish nation? Bad bet, indeed.

Anonymous Discard January 25, 2015 3:01 AM  

Shimshon: You wrote that France was "…virtually the only country in the world taking in large numbers of refugees, particularly Jews, from other lands threatened by the Nazis."
The U.S. took in 240,000 Jewish refugees from Germany, the rest of the world, including France, took in another 40,000 jewish refugees from Germany.
The only other refugees from the Nazis before the war would have been from Austria or Czechoslovakia. How many would that have been?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 25, 2015 3:21 AM  

"I used to like reading Goldberg back when he was Spengler."

I liked him, before he took his mask off.

Behold the power of crypsis.

Blogger dfordoom January 25, 2015 3:28 AM  

They dislike the patriotic, proud, and ready-to-fight Jew. They dislike Israel because it is the national embodiment of the latter kind of Jew.

I think that's a valid point. Israel is prepared to defend its frontiers and its national identity. That's why the European surrender monkeys hate Israel. The Israelis understand that if you want to defend yourself guns and guts are more useful than group hugs. Modern western Europeans are not only sniveling cowards but hopelessly debauched and degenerate.

Blogger dfordoom January 25, 2015 3:46 AM  

Hollywood...culturally significant...and no one underestimates Jewish influence there. Literature...for the most part in the United States and Western Europe.

Given the degeneracy of the western literature and art of the past century and the moral sewer that is Hollywood that might not be such a strong argument.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 25, 2015 4:11 AM  

The jew would love for you to believe that his presence is responsible for everything good that ever happens, but only an idiot would listen to drivel like that. Why have they been forced out everywhere they have settled? Is it irrational hatred? That's their story, the story of the Biggest Liars on Earth.
Look what they have done for the United States of America. A once almost entirely White country which had freedom and unmatched prosperity is now a polyglot slum of ghetto dwellers who make the cities an urban jungle full of ruins and dead bodies. The Christian Religion that inspired the US Constitution and that everyone who is decended from the Founding Fathers cannot even be spoken of in public without vile jews suing and attacking you for it. You cannot bring a Holy Bible to a public school or University that now teaches homosexuality and tells your children that Satan is misunderstood. Your jobs have been shipped to China, and any that are left are given to filthy diseased foreigners that hate you.
Its SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND! Why do we HATE them?

Blogger Akulkis January 25, 2015 4:24 AM  

Goldman has stated that for U.S. Christianity to survive it would have to Judaize. What exactly he means by that is not clear but he has in his columns at PJMedia made that statement.

I'm curious about that too. I've known Christians who liked to follow some of the Old Covenant ways, like celebrating Passover. Somehow I don't suppose that's what he means, though. He probably just means "thinking and acting more like Jews" which comes down to whatever he thinks is superior about them.


He means go along with Jewish dictates and stop resisting, like the good little powerless prole he wants you and me to be.

Anonymous takin' a look January 25, 2015 4:56 AM  

It seems that the talmudists are getting more and more nervous.

Obama antisemite

The president said he understood the pressures that senators face from donors and others,but he urged the lawmakers to take the long view rather than make a move for short-term political gain, according to the senator.

Apparently "donors and others" is President Obama's sooper-secret code phrase for "da joooooooos"! I must not be in the know, because I wouldn't have read it that way. Darn it, what, do I need to attend a local jihadi cell as well as the neo nazis? I thought the local usury-free financial planning center would be good enough for my anti-semite credentials.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 25, 2015 6:19 AM  

Joshua Sinistar: "Why do we HATE them?"

But we don't.

Rather, they hate us, and put hateful words in our mouths, as David Goldberg does, to further our defamation, our unjust condemnation, and our destruction.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 25, 2015 7:17 AM  

Titus you're not a Roman. Romans hate anyone that hates them. I loved the Romans, they were realists. The reason Rome fell is because they were outnumbered by barbarians that were let into the gates by corrupt politicians who saw them as easy votes much like the traitors in America do today.
I'll tell you, what I told them. You cannot vote away this problem. You cannot stop the decay by appealing to the masses entrapped by the Bread and Circuses. Those enfeebled morons that are enthralled by the phony scandal of deflated footballs in the NFL are completely useless both to us and themselves. Most people won't do anything but follow where the herd goes. Only the few and the proud will ever pick up a gun and do what needs to be done. They are the ones I speak to, the others are just static. Coherence needs to be simple. Long-winded speeches are for politicians not generals.

Blogger ChicagoRefugee January 25, 2015 12:22 PM  

I've never heard of this rabbi, and I know of no Israeli who shares his views about Europe. The comments to his article seem to indicate other Israelis also abhor his position.

Okay, I'm late to the party (as usual!), but I wanted to comment on this. "An Israeli" apparently doesn't make a habit of reading The Jerusalem Post. At least half of the comments on any article even tangentially related to Europe are not-so-thinly-veiled vitriolic evil-wishing of the sort that would be considered hate speech in the EU were it directed at anyone other than pasty-skinned gentiles.

Yes, of course NAIALT - but unfortunately a significant number are. Rabbi Baruch Efrati is just more open about it; he seems to have commenced gloating a touch prematurely.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 25, 2015 2:02 PM  

ChicagoRefugee: "Okay, I'm late to the party (as usual!), but I wanted to comment on this. "An Israeli" apparently doesn't make a habit of reading The Jerusalem Post."

Apparently this is a Jewish trope. Dear Jewish friends who have expert knowledge on Jewish affairs and would never lead us astray are consistently oblivious to hateful Jewish attitudes toward whites and to the massive supporting evidence for the same.

If it is alleged that the Talmud teaches Jews that they should manipulate others to do the work for them, this shocking idea would need support, despite the Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel from 1973 to 1983, Ovadia Yosef, having declared the same. Oh, in that case "Very few people -- even religious people -- respect the Chief Rabbis in Israel." Well Ovadia Yosef only had 750,000 Jews show up for his funeral in 2013. What an inconvenient fact -- one can see how easily it would slip the mind. Rabbi Baruch Efrati, a yeshiva head is all for the replacement of Christians, you say? -- never heard of him either, but you can be sure his attitudes are totally unrepresentative and insignificant. Oh they aren't? Never mind, we'll catch you with some other lie next time.

Anonymous Feh January 25, 2015 11:36 PM  

Europeans (especially leftist-elites) like the groveling, apologetic Jew who is busy shedding any Jewishness that may cling to him. They dislike the patriotic, proud, and ready-to-fight Jew. They dislike Israel because it is the national embodiment of the latter kind of Jew.

What is interesting is that the Left (including the Juice) hate, hate, hate the patriotic, proud, and ready-to-fight European or North American.

They want to turn those patriotic, proud, and ready-to-fight Europeans and North Americans into groveling, apologetic creatures without any shred of pride in their European heritage.

In other words... they want to turn whitey into the (victim type) Jews.

Anonymous takin' a look January 26, 2015 1:13 AM  

-Titus Didius Tacticus

Apparently this is a Jewish trope. Dear Jewish friends who have expert knowledge on Jewish affairs and would never lead us astray are consistently oblivious to hateful Jewish attitudes toward whites and to the massive supporting evidence for the same.

If it is alleged that the Talmud teaches Jews that they should manipulate others to do the work for them, this shocking idea would need support, despite the Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel from 1973 to 1983, Ovadia Yosef, having declared the same. Oh, in that case "Very few people -- even religious people -- respect the Chief Rabbis in Israel." Well Ovadia Yosef only had 750,000 Jews show up for his funeral in 2013. What an inconvenient fact -- one can see how easily it would slip the mind. Rabbi Baruch Efrati, a yeshiva head is all for the replacement of Christians, you say? -- never heard of him either, but you can be sure his attitudes are totally unrepresentative and insignificant. Oh they aren't? Never mind, we'll catch you with some other lie next time.


-----This, fuckin' THIS.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 26, 2015 9:03 PM  

Sending aid to syria didn't work neither has these utterly ruinous foreign policies for a set of countries who are unreachable, unchanging.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 27, 2015 5:53 AM  

Did you all see the picture of the Leftist leader putting flowers on a monument to Greeks killed by Nazis? Ha, ha, ha! The shit is going to hit the fan sooner than I thought!
They're already doing the hollowcost schtick! The sellout of Greeks should be any minute now! SPARTA!

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 27, 2015 9:01 AM  

takin' a look, remember when Jewish commentators on this blog were shamelessly insisting that Jews, organized Jewry, the Israel lobby, and Israel would never want or ask for an American strike on Syria -- right alongside massive American Israel Public Affairs Committee lobbying, and an Israeli official saying Israel wants America to strike Syria?

Their reflexive strategy seems to be to lie shamelessly about hostile Jewish attitudes, trusting that (a) they're a chorus shouting down isolated individuals, and (b) nobody has the time, energy and focus to track down the evidence of so many lies, and even if they did, whites (not being as conflict-oriented as Jews) aren't going to read it all.

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