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Tuesday, January 13, 2015

ESR on gun control

Eric S. Raymond reviews and recommends Gun Control in the Third Reich:
It is commonly argued today that civilian firearms can do nothing to prevent tyranny because the armed citizen is helpless against the military and law-enforcement machinery of the modern state. But the Nazis never believed this; Adolf Hitler said in 1942 “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered [...] peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.

Halbrook shows how the Nazis treated the Germans themselves as “conquered people”; they took the prospect of armed resistance very seriously and acted with brutal efficiency to thwart it it by disarming any civilian they identified as a political enemy or potential rebel. In this they were successful; while armed anti-Nazi resistance movements sprung up all over the rest of Europe, there were none in Germany where weapon controls had been tightest.

The Nazis built their edifice of repression on a law of the preceding Weimar Republic requiring universal weapons registration. The law’s architects realized that these records could be dangerous in the hands of “extremist groups” and required them to be securely stored at police stations. This proved extremely convenient for the Nazis, who used the registration records as a targeting list.

The lesson for today is clear: the individual right to bear arms has to be defended with zeal even when a nation’s political circumstances look relatively benign. By the time the will to repression takes visible form, opposing gun control has already been deferred too long.
And it is only argued by those who know nothing of 4GW. There are sufficient guns even in most "gun-controlled" European countries to wipe out the soldiery and the police forces overnight.

Although it must be noted that the very concept of "gun control" is bordering on being completely outdated, thanks to 3D printing technology. Perhaps that is why the globalist elite is not only increasingly anti-democratic, but anti-technology as well.

Labels: ,

70 Comments:

Anonymous sawtooth January 13, 2015 12:09 PM  

Science leads to technology; technology leads to...

...instant guns! Just add powder and stir.

Lefties why, oh why do you hate science?

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 January 13, 2015 12:12 PM  

"It is commonly argued today that civilian firearms can do nothing to prevent tyranny because the armed citizen is helpless against the military and law-enforcement machinery of the modern state."
Once upon a time (ie)The United States of America were known as "The Colonies".
Several "countries" loudly claimed "I'm in charge here....."

CaptDMO

Anonymous Jonathan January 13, 2015 12:21 PM  

The goal isn't for the citizenry to resist the military and police by themselves but give the military and police an incentive to side against the government.

Blogger 2harddrive January 13, 2015 12:23 PM  

Senator Thomas Dodd modeled the US Gun Control Act of 1968 on the Nazi Weapons Law, amended in 1938. Link here: http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/GCA_68.htm

Anonymous Sam the Man January 13, 2015 12:24 PM  

Hate to say this Vox, but that info is wrong.

The NAZI's actually made weapon laws less controlling; in the 1928 weapons law all firearms and ammunition acquisitions required a permit (ammo could only be bought for arm permitted), in the 1938 law these restrictions were relaxed. The only arm requiring a permit were psitols. Rifles, shotguns and ammunition could after 1938 be freely bought without any permit. Certain classes of folks were exempt such a NAZI party members, police, railroad officials, soldiers, etc.

Now after the night of broken glass (November 1938) I think Jews were excluded from all weapons ownership, but I am not sure how this affected half-Jews and what not I am not sure.

OpenID simplytimothy January 13, 2015 12:30 PM  

but anti-technology as well.

It is this that worries me. I do not know, but I suspect that "technology control" is already being implemented; I fear that the open-source strategy cannot match--in the near term--the pace of the arms race.

We know the NSA spies and lies about it. We know that cops use Stingray cell-phone tower emulators to intercept calls. We know that the centralized state has broken the Tor network and has tools to--while not breaking encryption--break the tools used to encrypt and bypass the encryption. We know that some hi-value CNC machines phone-home their physical location. We know that cars are being black-boxed. That facial recognition software and behavioral software can detect 'pre-crime'.

Solving that problem is a big issue for our day.

An idea I have is to use what we have as our means of communication. Currently, the Intenet transports packets of information. Well, a car is a packet. a person is a packet. A almond joy* candy bar is a packet. If we can devise a means for these 'packets' to contain information and a means of transfering information between them from source(s) to destination(s) then TPTB have a problem.

A man buys an almond joy at the gas station, information carried by the almond joy wrapper and the man is exchanged; the man gets in his car and the same exchange takes place. Two men pass each other in the street--info exchanged, the almond joy wrapper is thrown away, picked up by a garbage truck, transported....


Hopefully superb minds are focused on the problem and working in the interests of freedom and humanity.



*Almond Joys are the perfect halloween treat. Many kids don't like them and pass them over, which means I get to eat them. I also "appear" generous while being totally self indulgent.

Anonymous JP January 13, 2015 12:41 PM  

In South Africa, it is estimated that there are between 2 and 9 times more illegal guns in the hands of criminals than in the hands of the military. And we modeled our stupidly strict Firearms Control Act on Canada's, with a little bit of Australia thrown in.

If the major gangs across our country decided to form a united front, they could easily kick the SANDF's ass. They might only have 10% of the skill of our soldiers, but they have 10 times the numbers. It gets even worse when one keeps in mind that most of the military personnel don't actually fight, they perform support roles.

I assume the same applies to western countries.

OpenID simplytimothy January 13, 2015 12:54 PM  

I assume the same applies to western countries.

Not in Free America. http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/12/something-funny-happened-on-the-way-to-the-tyranny/


Blogger Krul January 13, 2015 1:11 PM  

JP - If the major gangs across our country decided to form a united front, they could easily kick the SANDF's ass. They might only have 10% of the skill of our soldiers, but they have 10 times the numbers.

"CAN YOU DIG IT?"

OpenID luagha January 13, 2015 1:21 PM  

Sam the man, you are mistaking the letter of the law for the manner of its enforcement.

I would think that Obama would have taught you better.

OpenID genericviews January 13, 2015 1:22 PM  

...thanks to 3D printing technology

GAH! Every time I see that, I want to take a hostage. 3d technology doesn't make guns better than a Jr High machine shop. Making simple guns is EASY. No need for complex 3D printers making plastic parts. The US Army almost included 3d printers as a serious future threat until i educated them on how guns made in factories are how it is done. Computerized CNC, milling and lathes are how you make guns today and anyone can have these in their basement.

but also, 3D printers are now on the shelf at home Depot. ($2300, consumables extra), so go have fun.

Finally, people in the police state easily forget that in a police state, the police have guns. So there is always a supply. All Bubby Patriot needs to do is get himself a job at the police station.

Anonymous Shorr Khan January 13, 2015 1:29 PM  

The anti-technology tendencies of authoritarian regimes was a part of Pournelle's CoDominium SF stories. The CoDominium was so concerned about the potentially destabilizing influence of new weapons technology, that they virtually eliminated all technological development.

Part of this was the licensing and regulation of scientists and engineers.

Anonymous DeepThought January 13, 2015 1:30 PM  

I know this is not the right place but can you comment on this article?

http://www.infowars.com/economist-world-leaders-will-exploit-charlie-hebdo-to-eliminate-encryption/

Anonymous Corvinus January 13, 2015 1:35 PM  

Although it must be noted that the very concept of "gun control" is bordering on being completely outdated, thanks to 3D printing technology.

And will be completely outdated, once we're able to print working ammunition.

Anonymous patrick kelly January 13, 2015 1:40 PM  

"They might only have 10% of the skill of our soldiers, but they have 10 times the numbers."

I honestly think a nominally trained, disciplined force can take on 10-1 odds against a vibrant, criminal mob, 100-1 would be a draw.....

Anonymous MendoScot January 13, 2015 1:41 PM  

Hate to say this Vox, but that info is wrong.

Source?

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother January 13, 2015 1:42 PM  

100-1 odds:

Blackhawk Down

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis January 13, 2015 1:44 PM  

It's interesting isn't it. When science fiction of days past portrayed a universe were 'machines' were banned, such as in Dune, it was always portrayed as a movement that arose from the masses. I am starting to wonder if/when an attempt like that is ever made if its less a populist movement and more an edict given by those in power.

Blogger Josh January 13, 2015 1:44 PM  

I know this is not the right place but can you comment on this article?

http://www.infowars.com/economist-world-leaders-will-exploit-charlie-hebdo-to-eliminate-encryption/


FALSE FLAG BLOWN COVER AS COVER!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 13, 2015 1:45 PM  

Corvinus: "And will be completely outdated, once we're able to print working ammunition."

Not completely. Suppressing firearms culture suppresses training, and training matters.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 January 13, 2015 1:57 PM  

I've heard that the Federal government has been holding back many fascinating technological developments largely due to corporatism since at least the 1970s.

It seems these days that the only technology that is allowed are those pre-approved by a bunch of pencil pushers whose primary motivation is envy.

Anonymous Anonymous January 13, 2015 1:59 PM  

Hate to say this Vox, but that info is wrong.

Source?

----------------------------

I notice that Eric S. Raymond provides no source for his claims, either about the German law or for his Hitler "quotation".

Blogger Owen January 13, 2015 2:02 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Owen January 13, 2015 2:04 PM  

I am starting to wonder if/when an attempt like that is ever made if its less a populist movement and more an edict given by those in power.

I'd wager the powerful make it seem like a populist movement.

Notice how, after any shooting, the powers-that-be called for a "national discussion" on guns. As if we haven't had a running conversation and it continues to trend towards freedom. They just ignore the facts and act as if "everyone" wants to have serious discussions on limitations.

Anonymous Daniel January 13, 2015 2:09 PM  

3D printing today is not the 3D printing of tomorrow. The Home Depot 3D printers are 8-track players compared to a projet 7000 HD. I know I wouldn't want to be shot with one. Hate for my last words to be...

"...is that plastic?"

Anonymous patrick kelly January 13, 2015 2:13 PM  

"eliminate-encryption"

I can only hope the beast will waste gazillions of cycles trying to do this...........

Blogger Josh January 13, 2015 2:19 PM  

I notice that Eric S. Raymond provides no source for his claims, either about the German law or for his Hitler "quotation".

Wouldn't his source be the book he reviewed?

Anonymous FP January 13, 2015 2:21 PM  

"WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!"

Indeed.

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-renews-bid-cybersecurity-law-155403546.html

OpenID genericviews January 13, 2015 2:35 PM  

If it's in Infowars, there is no need to comment on it. They are uniformly wrong about everything. It is almost as if they were infiltrated by government agents who posted absurdly conspiratorial stories on their site so that no one would take them seriously when they broke that really big story... (0_o)

As if this government needs an excuse to ram shit down our throats that we don't want.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 13, 2015 2:37 PM  

Once again Vox is wrong…period. Luagha: a portion of my family lived through that period in Germany: I know of what I speak of and how the laws were applied, you obviously do not. Mendoscot: here are the actual laws, You can look them up if you care to, I seem to recall reading at least the last two on line.

1919 Regulations on Weapons Ownership:

1928 Law on Firearms and Ammunition:

1938 German Weapons Act:

1938 Regulations against Jews' Possession of Weapons (11 Nov 1938)

As for application, Germans apply law as it is written. Prior to 1918 laws were done at the “land” level, corresponding to our states. In 1919 all civilian held arms were made illegal, though some FreiKorp retained their arms until the end of the various revolutions in 1923. After 1928 and prior to 1938 one needed a permit to buy a hunting rifle, target rifle, shotgun of any kind or ammunition for same. You could only purchase ammunition for an arm that you had a valid purchase permit for. Permits got a lot more difficult to get around 1930, after the recovery from the depression failed

Once the NAZI’s got in more working class folks were allowed to buy arms. After 1938 no permit was required for hunting rifles, target rifles (including military pattern) and shotguns. Further after the 1938 weapons act, one could buy ammunition for any arm you liked, including the many arms that had never been registered or turned in after 1919, but for which prior to 1938 it was illegal to buy ammunition for. The only arms that required a permit were pistols and only if you were not associated in some way with the party or government. End of the year saw Jews get screwed, no weapons of any kind allowed after the Paris assassination of an embassy chap by a disaffected German-Polish Jew.

Fact is, except for Jews, and foreigners, the laws were much more arms friendly in 1938 than they were in 1932.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 13, 2015 2:40 PM  

Not a pro-NAZI post by the way, the NAZI's used other very effective methods of controlling folks. Fact is though, most germns did nto see the extent of th police state the lived in, if you went along it appeared to be free, as long as you were not a Jew, communist, Gypsy or other offically detested group.

Anonymous Stilicho January 13, 2015 2:42 PM  

Fact is, except for Jews, and foreigners, the laws were much more arms friendly in 1938 than they were in 1932.

So, Democrats are worse on the issue of gun control than Hitler. Fascinating

OpenID luagha January 13, 2015 2:43 PM  

So you just agreed with Eric S. Raymond and the book, Gun Control In The Third Reich, Sam the man.

The law says one thing. The regulation directs it and perverts it for the efforts of the totalitarian regime. 'Undesirables' have their weapons confiscated, and 'good people' are encouraged to buy them, through proper channels. That's exactly the story in the book.

Anonymous Athor Pel January 13, 2015 2:44 PM  

Materials science will need to make one or two massive leaps if 3D printers ever hope to produce a truly useful projectile weapon. I'm including the sintered metal prototyping machines as well.

You want cheap guns for the masses? Use the same machine tools that have been used since the beginning, lathe, mill, & drill press. Decide on an easy to manufacture design. Create the jigs and guides. Get some steel and go to town.

There are people doing this right now, for shits and giggles. It's not rocket science.

Blogger Josh January 13, 2015 2:45 PM  

It is almost as if they were infiltrated by government agents who posted absurdly conspiratorial stories on their site so that no one would take them seriously when they broke that really big story... (0_o)

Clearly they are CIA disinfo psyops manipulating the people through MK ULTRA propaganda techniques.

Anonymous Stilicho January 13, 2015 2:48 PM  


Clearly they are CIA disinfo psyops manipulating the people through MK ULTRA propaganda techniques.


Now he let out a yell that'd curl yer hair
But before he could move I grabbed me a chair
And said "Now watch him Folks cause he's a furly dangerous man!"

"Well you may not know it but this man is a spy.
He's a undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan!"

He was still bent over holdin' on to his knee
But everybody else was lookin' and listenin' to me
And I laid it on thicker and heavier as I went

I said "Would you believe this man has gone as far
As tearing Wallace stickers off the bumpers of cars
And he voted for George McGovern for President."

"Well he's a friend of them long haired, hippy-type, pinko fags!
I betchya he's even got a commie flag
Tacked up on the wall inside of his garage."

"He's a snake in the grass, I tell ya guys
He may look dumb but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage"

Anonymous Invid January 13, 2015 2:54 PM  

We're all the firearms registered? Did the nazis use the registrations to target gun owners?
How is Vox wrong again?

OpenID genericviews January 13, 2015 2:56 PM  

Amen! AP

Blogger 2harddrive January 13, 2015 3:08 PM  

Attached is a link documenting a pathetic attempt by the rabbit people to employ hurled cans of food for self-defense: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/13/alabama-principal-seeks-cans-food-to-defend-against-intruders-790312695/?intcmp=latestnews

Anonymous Noah B. January 13, 2015 3:12 PM  

Where 3D printing really can be useful is in rapid mold-making. For directly manufacturing anything metallic, not so much.

Blogger Danby January 13, 2015 3:31 PM  

fairly complete plans can be found online to build a 9mm sub-machine gun using stock steel bearing and plumbing parts and a drill press. I've seen the plans, but not built the gun, because I don't yet feel the need to explain to the government shy I have a machine gun. and besides a tommy gun is not terribly useful except against a crowd.
Anyway, I have built a scary black rifle, machining the lower receiver myself on a friend's mill. It took three tries before I got all the way through without ruining it. His mill cost $1200 and has built a fair number of lower receivers. He's got one rifle for which he machined every part himself. It took a while, but he wasn't in a hurry.

And I've rebuilt quite a few rifles, including my current project, an SMLE in 303 British. My son is currently building a black powder Kentucky rifle. Every part manufactured by hand, including the pattern-welded barrel.

The SKS, the Gun That Won The Vietnam War, was largely manufactured in backyard workshops in southern China.

Blogger Danby January 13, 2015 3:35 PM  

And there's this:
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-review-firearm-anatomy-i-thompson-m1a1-submachine-gun/
Which is a very good text on not just how to build a particular gun, but how to design a gun.

Anonymous Borderline Anonymous January 13, 2015 3:40 PM  

Re: desktop gun printing.

One word: primers. Sabe?

Anonymous Sam the man January 13, 2015 4:04 PM  

Vox is wrong because the fundamental premise of this post is that the Nazis used the weapon law of 1928 to disarm Germans. They did not; in fact the final years of the Weimar republic 1930 to 1932 saw a tightening of permits. After 1934 permitting got a lot more permissive, followed by the removal of all long arms from the permitting process in 1938. That and the better economic conditions that existed from 1935 through 1938 meant that the rate of firearms ownership went up after 1938.

As to them having registration, they had point of sale registration in the 1938 law(dealer records), but there was not requirement for a permit, so all of the arms that had not been turned in in 1919 could once again be used and ammunition bought for them. There were considerable quantities of such arms. Prior to that if you had an unpermitted arm you could be arrested for it, (even hunting) and you could not buy ammunition for it. As such there was no formal registration, the system they had was markedly like what exists in the USA under the GCA of 1968 amended by the 1986 gun act. The comment about storage at a police station is some fantasy of the author.

Summary: The German gun laws went from a UK like system where every arm was permitted and you had to show reason, to a system where long arms could be purchased at a will and be freely used, as long as you were not a criminal, Jew, political enemy of the state etc. Control was exerted, but by other methods than disarmament, which was the fundamental premise of this post.

Regarding classes unable to buy arms: Pretty much similar to what you have in the USA where you cannot buy arms if you are a drug user, criminal, have dispute with your wife that has made it to the legal realm, or have somehow gotten your name on the formal list of folks who cannot own arms. Categories are different, but the concept is the same. The same is true of ever European nation and has been since at least the 1960s.

Anonymous paradox January 13, 2015 4:09 PM  

What is also forgotten is when the Allies took over Germany they instituted complete gun confiscation. So the Allies took any gun ownership as a serious threat to Allied occupation.

Blogger Matamoros January 13, 2015 4:09 PM  

Sam the Man: Hate to say this Vox, but that info is wrong.

Anonymous Source?

Here is the source:
Gun Control in Germany 1928-1945, William L. Pierce

Read at: https://archive.org/details/GunControlInGermany1928-1945

Anonymous paradox January 13, 2015 4:57 PM  

To which the Democrats are doing the same as the NSDAP, disarming political political opposition. I remember Gabby Giffords husband, Mark Kelly, was caught buying an AR-15.

Anonymous Anubis January 13, 2015 4:58 PM  

"Fact is, except for Jews, and foreigners, the laws were much more arms friendly in 1938 than they were in 1932."

Bath House Barry already gave out guns to Mexican drug dealers, he only wants Asians & Whites to have gun control so the vibrants will outgun them. Think O-Hole's IRS friendly to his cronies, harsh to anyone productive.

Anonymous Noah B. January 13, 2015 5:31 PM  

"One word: primers. Sabe?"

Baby stuff.

Anonymous TroperA January 13, 2015 6:02 PM  

genericviews: GAH! Every time I see that, I want to take a hostage. 3d technology doesn't make guns better than a Jr High machine shop. Making simple guns is EASY. No need for complex 3D printers making plastic parts. The US Army almost included 3d printers as a serious future threat until i educated them on how guns made in factories are how it is done. Computerized CNC, milling and lathes are how you make guns today and anyone can have these in their basement.

Which would you rather do? Invest thousands of dollars in an equipment shop and hundreds of hours learning milling and machining? Or go to the nearest Home Depot, buy an off the rack 3D printer, download a few files and "push button to make gun"? Which of these two skill sets would be more accessible and desirable to the average lazy American schlub?

Blogger Danby January 13, 2015 6:56 PM  

@TroperA
"Which would you rather do? Invest thousands of dollars in an equipment shop and hundreds of hours learning milling and machining? Or go to the nearest Home Depot, buy an off the rack 3D printer, download a few files and "push button to make gun"? Which of these two skill sets would be more accessible and desirable to the average lazy American schlub?"

This is ludicrous. Like I said, you can buy a decent millling machine for $1200. Compare that to a $5000 3d printer. A gun made in a machine shop is just as untraceable as one made on a 3d printer. For another $2000 in stepper motors and controllers, you can turn a cheap mill into a CNC mill. With less money and less work, you can get a gun that is actually functional. I've put about 1500 rounds through mine. My machinist friend has probably put 10000 through his. How many rounds is your plastic gun good for? How many rounds in 10 minutes? Ever burned you hand on a hot gun barrel?

Yes, MPAI and lazy to boot. Still, 3D printed guns are still a fantasy, and will remain so until there's a serious leap in technology. Even then, using real tools will be cheaper and likely easier.

Anonymous Anubis January 13, 2015 6:58 PM  

"Invest thousands of dollars in an equipment shop and hundreds of hours learning milling and machining?"

You could have a party with a couple like minded friends and rent a CNC machine and everyone make their own gun. They are called 80% build parties. Of course that requires friends that are willing to have a party without booze, drugs or sex, which writes off the left side of the bell curve.

Blogger Chris Mallory January 13, 2015 7:22 PM  

"You could have a party with a couple like minded friends and rent a CNC machine and everyone make their own gun. They are called 80% build parties."

ATF tried to put a squash on this method last week.
http://blog.princelaw.com/2015/01/03/atf-issues-first-ruling-of-the-new-year-is-it-the-end-of-80-lowers/

Anonymous Athor Pel January 13, 2015 7:56 PM  

Here's a step in the direction of truly useful 3D printed parts.

3d printer prints carbon fiber

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein January 13, 2015 10:19 PM  

@Stilicho

He ain't even got a garage. You can ask his wife.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 13, 2015 10:52 PM  

You want cheap guns for the masses? Use the same machine tools that have been used since the beginning, lathe, mill, & drill press. Decide on an easy to manufacture design. Create the jigs and guides. Get some steel and go to town.
3D printers will make excellent jig-makers in the very near future. Not to mention a good source for all the ancillary parts like grips and sights and magazines and...

Of course, that is in the future. I'm sitting here watching my 3d printer struggle to print a frame for an R/C car.

Blogger Ben January 13, 2015 11:04 PM  

Not only 3d printing in plastics or composites, but laser sintering out of steel and other metals is already becoming more and more viable too. This is already done to make extremely complex parts, or tooling for injection molding equipment, but like anything, it will just get cheaper with time. Solid Concepts made a 1911 like this--cool stuff.

Plus, CNC technology is getting really cheap and easy to source. My good friend built a miniature cnc in his basement just this year. There's never been a better time to be making stuff.

Blogger MidKnight January 13, 2015 11:31 PM  

@TontoBubbaGoldstein

Damn. Beat me to it

Anonymous A Reader January 14, 2015 12:05 AM  

The right to keep and bear arms is an insurance policy against tyranny.

When I make that point, gun control advocates usually ask me something like, "But how can you stand against the military might of a State?"

My reply is that if govt tyranny comes, it will be not just me in revolt, but many others, and irregular warfare can be effective.

Note: what I call irregular warfare is is what others might call 4th generation warfare.

Anonymous Uncle Buck January 14, 2015 12:33 AM  

Why do people assume the military will be in total support of the federal gov't?

Anonymous DC January 14, 2015 1:46 AM  

@Uncle Buck:

One example: Katrina
Gov't workers, including National Guard soldiers, disarmed the public. Don't expect it to be any different come any other major breakdown, either -- they'll all "just follow orders".

Blogger JP January 14, 2015 2:24 AM  

I honestly think a nominally trained, disciplined force can take on 10-1 odds against a vibrant, criminal mob, 100-1 would be a draw.....

That's not what happened in Iraq.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 14, 2015 6:04 AM  

Uncle Buck: "Why do people assume the military will be in total support of the federal gov't?"

First, history, with the army imposing integration. The soldiers have been there to break the will of white communities and impose anti-white politics in the past; the default assumption is, that will also be their role in future.

Second diversity matters more than the lives of soldiers: “Our diversity, not only in our Army, but in our country, is a strength. And as horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that’s worse,” Casey said.

Replaying this YouTube clip repeatedly should be a clarifying experience. It's less than thirty seconds. The general makes it very clear that "diversity" is essential everywhere and not just in the military.

Coups, for obvious reasons, are a well-studied phenomenon. There is a lot of history to consider on how soldiers act in time of conflicted loyalties. Senior officers count for a lot.

There are plenty of other reasons to think the American military is a fist that will smash what it is told to smash, but I'll leave them to subject experts.

Anonymous Uncle Buck January 14, 2015 10:27 AM  

"Gov't workers, including National Guard soldiers, disarmed the public."

As I recall it was armed FEMA that was disarming people but they were not having good luck in white neighborhoods. The National Guard, again if I remember correctly, were not trying to do so.

"Coups, for obvious reasons, are a well-studied phenomenon. There is a lot of history to consider on how soldiers act in time of conflicted loyalties. Senior officers count for a lot."

Have to consider if States decide to leave the Union, the number of disgruntled veterans being kicked to the curb, the number of axed senior officers for political reasons.

As for Gen Casey, nothing more than a modern day George McClellan in my opinion- and that may be only worth 2.5 cents due to inflation.

I believe a look at how the Romans fared with diversity shows how that works out in the end.

Anonymous DC January 14, 2015 11:20 AM  

Uncle Buck,

The people interviewed in this video disagree; police, National Guard, and Coast Guard are all mentioned as the perpetrators of illegal gun confiscations.

However, you'll probably never find any sort of written documentation of the actual orders to the various agencies to carry all this out, so I guess you could say, "they weren't really trying to disarm people", it just sort of....happened, didn't it?

Anonymous Nietzsche's Ghost January 14, 2015 11:51 AM  

Who are you folks planning on shooting, exactly?

Blogger Danby January 14, 2015 3:15 PM  

@Nietzsche's Ghost

you

Blogger ajw308 January 14, 2015 3:39 PM  

Why do people assume the military will be in total support of the federal gov't?
Because they pay them.

OpenID cailcorishev January 14, 2015 5:20 PM  

Why do people assume the military will be in total support of the federal gov't?

Experience. So far, the US military has bowed to every increasingly ridiculous and harmful idea that's come down the pike from the government. Sometimes they grumble and drag their feet a little, but that's it. And now that they've promoted women to the top ranks, compliance with future government directives will only come faster.

It's not an absolute. History shows armies do turn against their governments at times, of course. It usually comes down to lack of pay or someone else offering the commanders more in bribes, though. So like Ajw308 suggests, as long as the pay packets keep coming, there's no reason to think they won't keep following orders.

Anonymous Nietzsche's Ghost January 15, 2015 11:54 AM  

@Danby

Big talk. Little mind.

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