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Thursday, January 15, 2015

Speaking of hunting trolls

Gotcha, NTA. You weren't kidding about the north, eh? Turns out my theory last night was wrong.

Labels:

88 Comments:

Blogger automatthew January 15, 2015 7:26 PM  

"eh".

Anonymous The NTA January 15, 2015 7:42 PM  

Say what now?

But seriously, why even say specific things when you are almost always wrong?

Blogger automatthew January 15, 2015 7:45 PM  

Don't call me buddy, guy.

Anonymous VD January 15, 2015 8:17 PM  

But seriously, why even say specific things when you are almost always wrong?

Futile attempts to deflect. You know, Yama tried that too. Doesn't work with me. Unlike Markku, I seldom play the guessing game. For example, I now know where Phoenician works, what bus he takes to work, his heritage, the names of his family members, and so forth. He still lurks around here, you know, but since he stopped harassing me, there has been no need to take it any further.

Sure, I was wrong about him being Scott Lynch, but that was based on a single synchronicity. You, my Canadian friend, are in Ontario. You're on a quasi-dynamic IP, but I have your provider, just as I had Yama's, which is all I need. And while you can try lying about it, like he did, it won't do you any good. That's all I have yet, but then, I've only been on it for two days.

Now, do you really need me to take it further or are you satisfied yet? I note that in Canada, there is no legal distinction between stalking and cyberstalking.

"The use of technology to stalk and harass has been a growing concern in Canada over the last few years. Not only does it present unique investigatory and evidentiary challenges to police officers and prosecutors, but it also exposes and subjects victims to new types of harms. To date in Canada, because section 264 of the Criminal Code is not restricted to a specific method of communication, it has not been necessary to update it for it to apply to emerging technologies."

Anonymous Donn January 15, 2015 8:27 PM  

So is NTA banned?

Anonymous nta January 15, 2015 8:27 PM  

You, my Canadian friend, are in Ontario

Couldn't be more wrong.

I'm not worried about Canadian law, but unless you explicitly ask me not to comment on your blog (which you've not done, you super intelligence, you), then I'd lay off the implied legal threats.

Anonymous kkklam January 15, 2015 8:31 PM  

NTA ... post your IP address if you did nothing wrong. I double dare ya.

Blogger automatthew January 15, 2015 8:33 PM  

NTA, are you Job's goat? If so, it doesn't have to be like this.

Anonymous Not Canadian Troll January 15, 2015 8:37 PM  

kkklam; why would I? Vox apparently knows it and thinks I'm Canadian for some reason.

Anonymous kkklam January 15, 2015 8:43 PM  

NTA.., you scared, pussy?

Anonymous NTA January 15, 2015 8:54 PM  

kkklam. No. Are you 16?

Blogger automatthew January 15, 2015 8:54 PM  

Google finds no sign that kkklam has commented here before. Is NTA double dog daring himself?

Anonymous VD January 15, 2015 8:56 PM  

So is NTA banned?

No. He hasn't done anything except deny some readily confirmable facts and posture a bit.

Couldn't be more wrong.

That's what Yama said too. Admittedly, I did think you were Phoenician at first, since he was on the same post at almost the same time. But then you popped up again on the other one, and then a third, and now a fourth time.

Now, it could be a massive coincidence, but with every comment you leave here, the more certain I can be.

I'm not worried about Canadian law, but unless you explicitly ask me not to comment on your blog (which you've not done, you super intelligence, you), then I'd lay off the implied legal threats.

Oh, you would, would you? And when you're so certain that Yama hasn't had the police speak to him too. Of course, you can't be stalking because I haven't banned you. Don't give me a reason to do so and you need not worry about it.

Vox apparently knows it and thinks I'm Canadian for some reason.

I have no idea if you're Canadian or not. But I know your Internet provider is.

Anonymous kkklam January 15, 2015 8:59 PM  

Vox can see my IP. He has my permission to post my and NTA's IP adresss for oublic review. I live in DC, am posting this on my phone. So how about it NTA? Ready to go public, baby?

Anonymous NTA January 15, 2015 9:13 PM  

I did think you were Phoenician at first

Your ego makes you dumb.

Don't give me a reason to do so and you need not worry about it.

Vox, I'm not worried a bit. The second you ban me I will no longer post here under any name.

But I know your Internet provider is.

And yet they are not. Not their parent company, no holding compay. I have no doubt there's some router or something in Canada, maybe, but it's funny how what you know is irrelevant. I could be in Qatar. Or Milan. But the fact is you haven't a clue, and what is worse is I've literally done nothing to hide my IP. You are simply a poseur.

Anonymous S.H. January 15, 2015 9:30 PM  

poseur

Anonymous Soga January 15, 2015 9:37 PM  

Next time, NTA, try spelling "poser" like an American if you want to disguise your location better.

I mean, really, you trolls really are that easy.

Anonymous NTA January 15, 2015 9:39 PM  

Soga. OK, not in America (maybe). Way to pin-point my location!!! You're like the NSA!!!

Fucking retards, all of you.

Blogger automatthew January 15, 2015 9:42 PM  

"Not their parent company, no holding compay. I have no doubt there's some router or something in Canada, maybe, but it's funny how what you know is irrelevant."

You were in quite the hurry to type that out, it seems.

Blogger automatthew January 15, 2015 9:43 PM  

"poseur" is one of his hallmarks, as "dipshit" was for Phoenician. Now let's see how long NTA can refrain from using it.

Anonymous fp January 15, 2015 9:46 PM  

It's time to unleash NTA's nemesis... Markku.

Anonymous NTA January 15, 2015 9:50 PM  

fp; Markku already gave it his best shot.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2015 10:01 PM  

How many times do I have to say this? I'm not Troll Hunter: Nemesis. I have never used any tools to find trolls. I'm just completely not a party in this. If you people keep saying he is me, you are denying credit to whom it is actually due.

Blogger bob k. mando January 15, 2015 10:02 PM  

his best shot? no, that's not his best shot.

it's a game he plays with himself, to see how good his pattern recognition is WITHOUT using back end tools.

Blogger Mekadave January 15, 2015 10:16 PM  

Where's my popcorn? I love seeing trolls get taken down.

*munch, munch*

Anonymous Troll Hunter: Nemesis January 15, 2015 10:29 PM  

Have you considered the possibility that I might be a group mind composed of the entirety of the Dread Ilk?

Blogger Markku January 15, 2015 10:30 PM  

Sounds gay.

Blogger bob k. mando January 15, 2015 10:30 PM  

a ... "Hive Mind" ... as it were?

Blogger bob k. mando January 15, 2015 10:32 PM  

not a good idear for a Finn to be talking about teh Gay.

http://newnownext.mtvnimages.com/2014/04/Tom-of-Finland-stamp.jpg

Anonymous Troll Hunter: Nemesis January 15, 2015 10:35 PM  

The reality is quite boring, involving two of my least favorite technologies: XML and SQL.

Anonymous Troll Hunger: Nemesis January 15, 2015 10:36 PM  

When I think of Finns, I think of this.

Anonymous BurnSide January 15, 2015 10:39 PM  

I can't count the number of times I have seen this exact series of events go down on various internet spaces, and it always seems to go down in the exact same way. The sameness of the behavior really is fascinating. They will deny and bluff and deny and bluff and then boom, excrement in the fan. Although this is the first time I have seen it ended by the badges. Usually it just ends in a doxxing and public shaming.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2015 10:40 PM  

You will also at this moment in time find some interesting pointers about the country of origin, in the obvious place.

Anonymous Toby Temple January 15, 2015 10:48 PM  

So now NTA wants the attention now.

Markku. Looks like you get a second chance.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2015 11:07 PM  

No, I'm not getting to it again. As I said, I thought it was all in good humor when we originally went through it. He progressively turned into a cunt as it went on, and I didn't notice it at first. I'll leave this to the other fellow, or Vox might officially ban him. Doesn't concern me.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2015 11:26 PM  

And heads up, Yama tweeted. So, clearly he has internet access somewhere at this moment. Check your comment sections, you who have been harassed.

Anonymous Soga January 15, 2015 11:43 PM  

Honestly... trolls these days have really brought trolling down from the fine art that it used to be. As The Joker would say, we need a better class of trolls.

I mean, when you flame people on the second post, you're really not doing that well as a troll. Trolling is about pulling people's strings, getting them involved in land wars in Asia with each other, and possibly even the site administrators or moderators, all without being caught. The finest trolls in history are these who were the subtlest and yet, the most lethal. Subterfuge made trolling an art form.

But you postmodernist trolls, much like postmodernist artists, just shit over your canvas and call it art. It's not art. It's shit. You're shit. You should feel bad about yourself. Actually, given recent revelations about the psychology of trolls, you probably already feel bad about yourself. And you're probably gay and stuck in the closet and hate yourself because you can't like girls like a normal man.

Anonymous Doug Wardell January 15, 2015 11:56 PM  

I'll take a wild stab and guess that TH:N is esr, though I don't expect confirmation. Either way, I have little doubt that Vox knows multiple people capable at tracing origins of posters who are not going to extreme lengths to mask their origin, and perhaps even then.

Anonymous Jonathan January 16, 2015 12:13 AM  

@ Doug Wardell

Yeah, esr often uses "boring" as a way of dismissing something.

Anonymous Jonathan January 16, 2015 12:38 AM  

Yamamanama's every post and comment is just dripping with Archer references. Yikes, now I'm beginning to wonder if something's wrong with me

Anonymous Rhys January 16, 2015 12:44 AM  

For my bet I'll say TH:N is Ender having some fun and NTA is actually supposed to be multiple trolls using the same username to throw everyone off except one of them posted too many comments in a row without letting another use the name and thus gave himself away.

Blogger Mekadave January 16, 2015 12:45 AM  

Huh... Yama pre-emptively blocked me on Twitter and I'd never interacted with him there (that I can remember, anyway). He must've blocked everyone using #DreadIlk or something along those lines, I guess? Too bad for him I can still log out of Twitter and read his profile. :-p

Anonymous kh123 January 16, 2015 12:51 AM  

...No no, Jonathan, it's when someone from here mentions they like something, and it coincides with whatever's on his own playlist, thus leading to public weeping and gnashing of teeth.

See: Muse.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 1:19 AM  

kh123. Two separate things. When Yama talks about something out of the blue, and not to us in particular, he talks about Archer. Occasionally things concerning the Wildlife center, occasionally anime, occasionally certain genres of music (esp. noise), but most of all Archer.

On the other hand, he has certain hot-buttons that he will respond to with almost comical reliability. If you suspect someone of being Yama, just try one of the buttons. Not directly to him - that would be too transparent - but to someone else. If he sees it, he can not resist reacting to it.

One of them is Muse. One is Doug TenNapel. More will probably come to mind after some thought. Also, if he talks about Bob K. Mando or James May (who doesn't even write here anymore) when it isn't relevant, it's Yama. If he uses any insult about Vox's writing that involves the word "elves", it's Yama.

Blogger Mekadave January 16, 2015 1:51 AM  

Yama's also completely unable to resist criticizing any work of Shadowdancer's: art, writing or otherwise. If her work is being discussed, there's a good chance he'll appear and say how terrible it is.

Blogger Student in Blue January 16, 2015 2:07 AM  

@Markku
[...](esp. noise)[...]

Wait... I'm feeling a bit incredulous here, but there's someone who actually enjoys that aural fecal matter?

I mean, I've always pondered if someone has to be mentally damaged to enjoy that genre, but this is my first time incidentally running into someone who enjoys it (instead of youtube comments on noise tracks themselves).

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 2:10 AM  

Yep. Merzbow is one of his favorites. Also a hot-button to speak your mind about Merzbow.

Anonymous rho January 16, 2015 2:13 AM  

I thought all trolls knew enough to go through proxies to mask their IP.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 2:24 AM  

Also, I have had that very same thought about noise. I think it is the same psychological trait that, in its full-blown form would lead to full-blown masochism, in a lesser form leads to liking noise music.

Let's compare to heavy metal. If you are an utterly unaggressive person - I mean in reality, not hiding it in passive-aggressiveness - are you going to like heavy metal? Not likely, I'd say. The genre is an artistic expression of aggression. It brings those feelings to surface, which can be an addictive experience. You get a rush of adrenaline. But only if those feelings were indeed there to be brought out.

Same with masochism and noise. You have a vague understanding that you are a sinner against some cosmic law, whether you identify it as from God or as something else, and you recognize that there is just something RIGHT about you experiencing pain. You subconsciously realize that things are in the right order in the universe when you are paying for your sins by experiencing pain.

If the impulse is very great, you're probably going to cut yourself with razors. If it is mild, it might find noise music as its outlet.

Blogger Nate January 16, 2015 8:04 AM  

"I thought all trolls knew enough to go through proxies to mask their IP."

no.

Most trolls are trolling because they are psychologically damaged. proper net security requires to much hassle for them to deal with because they lack impulse control.

I mean its not hard to hide your identity on the net if you want to. just use public wifi in towns you don't live in. if a stateline is close by... cross it and use the mcdonalds over there occasionally.

it would complicate the troll hunt considerably.

but again... that requires impulse control... and an ability to grasp that your victim may actually pose a threat to you. These are things unavailable to trolls.

Blogger njartist January 16, 2015 8:04 AM  

@ Markku January 16, 2015 2:24 AM
Also, I have had that very same thought about noise.
Curious. When I moved back to N.C., I discovered that a friend had worked with some Noise punks over the years- even been a sound gatherer and roadie. I order to understand what it was, I looked at a few youtube videos: there appears to be a foul spirit behind it; it is more than just sounds: something perverse accompanies it.

Blogger bob k. mando January 16, 2015 8:39 AM  

Markku January 16, 2015 1:19 AM
Also, if he talks about Bob K. Mando or James May (who doesn't even write here anymore) when it isn't relevant, it's Yama.



Yamamalamadingdong ... James May ... and me.

now there's a juxtaposition to make you feel insecure.

Blogger Student in Blue January 16, 2015 8:44 AM  

@Markku
I think it is the same psychological trait that, in its full-blown form would lead to full-blown masochism, in a lesser form leads to liking noise music.

I'm not entirely convinced. Not so much that your theory is invalid, but my pet theory is more appealing to me.

It seems to me that it's more out of a sense of paranoia and conspiracy - that the brain is constructing narratives from scant to zero details, and the zero structure in noise becomes a hidden message or "this is what the artist meant!". Much in the sense that Yama has his own view of reality that ignores and rejects evidence, in an almost suicidal manner. In a heavier case, it becomes full-blown psychopathy, seeing things that aren't there.

I'd rant more on it but I have to go. :)

Blogger Bodichi January 16, 2015 8:45 AM  

@ njartist

I feel old for saying this, but what is "Noise"? Is it like dubstep or drop step or what ever that crap skillex does? Can you point to some specific videos on you tube (all I ask for is search terms, no links please)?

Anonymous a January 16, 2015 8:51 AM  

Question for Vox:

Did you deal with the police forbid Andrew from ALL internet activity? Or just that he promised not to harrass/troll/etc?

Just curious because I don't to annoy you with reports of activing like the tweet below unless it was specifically against your deal:

https://twitter.com/pure_impure/status/555930490621145090

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 8:54 AM  

Bodichi: Go to YouTube, search for Merzbow, then just click anything. You may want (as in, you most assuredly will want) to have your volume at low.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 8:57 AM  

Did you deal with the police forbid Andrew from ALL internet activity?

He is not, at least yet, categorically banned from internet. The tweet is fine. Of course if he continues to annoy the police department, I'm sure that might change.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 9:08 AM  

My suspicion is, though, that eventually the police will conclude that the only line that is so simple that even he is able to understand it, is "use the internet, and you'll go to prison". But we're not there yet.

Anonymous Del Griffith January 16, 2015 9:38 AM  

Merzbow - irritating white noise. I could see how a mentally ill person could enjoy it. Silly gimmick. "Music" for the empty souls of this world.

Anonymous coltrane's ghost January 16, 2015 9:39 AM  

@Markku
@Student in Blue

The masochism explanation of the enjoyment of noise makes no sense when one considers synth-ambient stuff (e.g. Koner, Tietchens, etc.). It's an example of perhaps the purest noise 'music', in that it's beyond atonal and not remotely rhythmic. Unless you consider boredom pain, but not everyone listening is bored. The paranoiac explanation may describe a set of navel-gazers, but not everyone is looking for "meaning" in noise. And then, why complain? Noise has been an invaluable component of rock, jazz, and other mainstream genres; it's silly to discount the whole enterprise as masochistic or paranoid. In conjunction with music, noise can exercise the emotions powerfully. Outside of real music, noise has its own beauty; it compels one closer to the pure sound, as opposed to getting 'lost' in harmonic and rhythmic patterns. It's like enjoying colors or textures, totally divorced from that which is colored or textured. Of course, the ocean surf and wind through the trees are nothing but noise, but we don't suspect nature sounds enthusiasts to be deranged.

Anonymous Del Griffith January 16, 2015 9:40 AM  

Any bets on how long before yama screws up?

Blogger luagha January 16, 2015 10:45 AM  

As an aside, this weekend is the big furry con on the West coast. Yama may be under different stressors than usual.

Anonymous Giuseppe January 16, 2015 11:20 AM  

Coltrane's Ghost,
Bullshit. Noise, like all postmodernist "art" is just shit. I mean as in toxic fecal matter. It serves no purpose, unless you count raping souls and minds a purpose.

Anonymous VD January 16, 2015 12:45 PM  

Did you deal with the police forbid Andrew from ALL internet activity? Or just that he promised not to harrass/troll/etc?

I don't know the precise arrangement. They do want to know about all indications of his internet activity; I reported the tweet to them.

Anonymous a January 16, 2015 1:26 PM  

"Any bets on how long before yama screws up?"

My bet is by January 19.

You've got a crippled guy in a wheelchair who spent 12 years trolling people...

What else does he have but his compulsion?

And appartently he is still on the Internet.

It's like having an alchoholic at the bar... "Yeah, I'll just have one sip ... just one beer... that's all... OK maybe another..."

His mom or whoever is being a real fuck by not keeping him offline completely.

If you're a drug addict, don't do drugs. Got a porn addiction? Don't look at porn.

Compulsive trollers won't stop at one tweet, or a few comments...

Anonymous Clark Bianco January 16, 2015 2:07 PM  

@Markku & VS: The problem is, you cannot be banned from the internet without a court order. The police cannot just unilaterally prevent you from posting on the internet or having access to the internet. Being barred from accessing the internet is a criminal punishment in the USA, not a civil punishment, and requires a conviction under an existing criminal statute that has that condition as a penalty.

Barring such a criminal conviction, it's impossible for the police to keep Yama from the internet. And should they try to do so without a criminal conviction, it would be an incredible violation of the 1st Amendment according to current caselaw. It's tough to legally even keep convicted sexual offenders off the internet if they are not on probation; lifetime or year-long bans on internet access are frequently overturned

Realistically, the only way to keep Yama on ice is to have him convicted of a crime and imprisoned or to have him removed by the court to permanent incarceration in a mental institution. Which do you plan to do?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 16, 2015 2:34 PM  

How soon can metal competency be diagnosed, reviewed, explored, etc.? I would not even know the order the courts here would take, he'd have to be under a docs care complete with therapy then have a hearing of sorts - I dont know.

Continued coverage on the matter is required.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 2:45 PM  

Which do you plan to do?

How would someone "plan" to do that? The next step is to press charges, if it continues. It's up to the proper authorities whether they will incarcerate or place in a mental institution.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2015 2:59 PM  

The ball is in the police department's court now. There is no need to plan for anything anymore. Just provide the documentation they have asked for, and if it looks like the only option, then press charges. It's all basically riding along now.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 16, 2015 3:29 PM  

This serves as a good example to the rest of us; provide the evidence to help/give police work lighter. Vox's method provided clarity and history. I think this is going to be a swift court decision, it might take time but the courts are swifter than some imagine.

Anonymous NTA January 16, 2015 6:37 PM  

Hmmmmmmmm, Marshfield PD could not confirm any complaint by a Theodore Beale for an Andrew Marston, because you know... unfalsifilable...

Blogger Student in Blue January 16, 2015 6:47 PM  

@coltrane's ghost
The paranoiac explanation may describe a set of navel-gazers, but not everyone is looking for "meaning" in noise.

It's foolish to assume that everyone will be listening to a certain genre or even a certain piece of music for the same reasons.

Saying that "paranoic noise" is invalid as a theory because not *everyone* is into it for that reason is an extension of that thought. The main point of having a theory like this is whether or not it'll cover the vast majority because outliers do exist (and help to prove the rule of thumb).

And then, why complain? Noise has been an invaluable component of rock, jazz, and other mainstream genres; it's silly to discount the whole enterprise as masochistic or paranoid.

I believe you are either conflating terms here, or are using a different term of "noise" than what I am. How are you using the word "noise" in this situation?

In conjunction with music, noise can exercise the emotions powerfully.

Noise in this sense is like silence in music - used properly it is a powerful counterpoint and invaluable as a tool. If a piece of music is nothing but silence... it is not music. Likewise, if a piece of music is nothing but noise...

Outside of real music, noise has its own beauty; it compels one closer to the pure sound, as opposed to getting 'lost' in harmonic and rhythmic patterns. It's like enjoying colors or textures, totally divorced from that which is colored or textured.

This ventures closer into being a post-modern thought of art - that the experience is what matters, and that there is no point in any internal logic, even sometimes going so far as to treat that internal logic as detrimental. Hence getting "'lost' in harmonic and rhythmic patterns".

Postmodernism pretty much requires a rewriting of your brain in order to enjoy it. You have to train yourself, rewire yourself in order to understand and enjoy.

And as it is a rewiring and retraining, the listener is now mentally altered to be much like the psychologically damaged (Yama).

Of course, the ocean surf and wind through the trees are nothing but noise, but we don't suspect nature sounds enthusiasts to be deranged.

Yes, but do you know what is different from "ocean surf" and "wind through trees" from the noise genre music I've listened to?

There is an internal logic in nature that humans find beautiful. Really, that is a large part of what the concept of "beauty" is.

Anonymous Trollslayer January 16, 2015 8:35 PM  

NTA... post the first initial, last name of the officer you spoke with. Answer this direct question, per this blog's rules,

Anonymous NTA January 16, 2015 9:15 PM  

M Donahugh

Anonymous zen0 January 16, 2015 11:44 PM  

@ coltranes ghost

Of course, the ocean surf and wind through the trees are nothing but noise, but we don't suspect nature sounds enthusiasts to be deranged.

I have to take exception to this statement. The ocean surf and the wind through the trees have identifiable patterns, more akin to classical music than crass industrial cacophony. I am surrounded daily by ocean and wind, so I claim that I know whereof I speak. I have also spent time in the cacophony of industry, so I know the difference.

Get out to truly natural space and the noise you hear will be the blood rushing in your ears, and nothing else, and you will wish it would stop so you could by silence be soothed.

The Jazz greats like Coltrane played the silence... the notes were just a means to an end.

Blogger J Van Stry January 17, 2015 12:01 AM  

NTA,

You remind me of the people who say 'they arrested the wrong man' when the police nab the serial killer. You'd think the sudden halt in murders would kind of make it clear that they got the right man.

I haven't seen Andrew/Yama around here, or in any of the other places that I've seen him usually go to attack people. If he was still around to do it, he'd be all over this like white on rice. I know because I was one of the people he used to attack. His not being here is the biggest proof that he's on some kind of restriction.

Anonymous coltrane's ghost January 17, 2015 2:40 AM  

@Student in Blue

It's foolish to assume that everyone will be listening to a certain genre or even a certain piece of music for the same reasons.

My sole prompting for offering the perspective of potentially sane noise enthusiasts.

How are you using the word "noise" in this situation?

Broadly, and for all I know, unconventionally. Non-melodic, non-harmonic, non-rhythmic sound, particularly incorporating random or pseudo-random variation, whether banging on the piano keys or a whitish hiss, slowly modulating over an hour (perhaps the purer noise). In the two example genres, noise can be a component in music, like Hendrix's howling feedback, or overt and entire, like Coltrane's Interstellar Space.

[pure noise] is not music

Agreed.

This ventures closer into being a post-modern thought of art

My bit about being lost in pattern was a little tongue in cheek. One can make a distinction between pure experience and ordered layers above that. And one can choose to enjoy the raw, primitive substrate or the harmony which utilizes it. The logic is not detrimental at all; I, as an apparent outlier, don't regret order in music. Sometimes it's just interesting to try focusing on the substrate. It does require some practice, like anything else in which the attention is methodically redirected (e.g. wine tasting).

Yes, but do you know what is different from "ocean surf" and "wind through trees" from the noise genre music I've listened to?

The beauty and order of Nature are neither disparaged nor denied when we correctly identify wind as beautiful noise. I admit I have not detected the patterns in wind of which zen0 wrote.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit January 17, 2015 3:32 AM  

NTA's tick is lying:
It always lies and assume the rest of the world is always lying too. What a sad, dark-hearted way to live.

Anonymous VD January 17, 2015 5:56 AM  

Hmmmmmmmm, Marshfield PD could not confirm any complaint by a Theodore Beale for an Andrew Marston, because you know... unfalsifilable...

(laughs) The amusing thing is that you probably think of yourself as being pro-science.

Anonymous Trollslayer January 17, 2015 8:38 AM  

Vox, did you speak with a M Donahugh recently?

or is NTA being a lying faggot nigger again?

Anonymous Quiet Guy January 17, 2015 10:17 AM  

Yamamanama got loose again. He commented on a blog at 2015-01-17 01:33 pm (UTC).

Blogger Markku January 17, 2015 10:31 AM  

Broadly, and for all I know, unconventionally. Non-melodic, non-harmonic, non-rhythmic sound, particularly incorporating random or pseudo-random variation, whether banging on the piano keys or a whitish hiss, slowly modulating over an hour (perhaps the purer noise). In the two example genres, noise can be a component in music, like Hendrix's howling feedback, or overt and entire, like Coltrane's Interstellar Space.

No, I quite like noise in THAT sense. When it plays the submissive part to where normal music is the master, then noise brings out the contrast. For example, take Muse's The 2nd Law: Unsustainable. It flirts at the edge of how far you can take it, but still stays within the confines.

I mean the genre where it's ALL noise. Did you actually listen to Merzbow?

Blogger Markku January 17, 2015 10:37 AM  

Let's put it this way: I like spicy food. It has a nice, serrated edge to the taste. But if someone just takes drops of pure capsaicin, I'll go dude, that guy is a masochist.

Blogger Student in Blue January 17, 2015 3:55 PM  

@coltrane's ghost
My sole prompting for offering the perspective of potentially sane noise enthusiasts.

That was your motive, yes, but you have yet to establish any sort of logic or argument why the outliers are sane. They may be 75% paranoid-in-various-stages and 25% masochistic-in-various-stages.

Broadly, and for all I know, unconventionally. [...] In the two example genres, noise can be a component in music, like Hendrix's howling feedback, or overt and entire, like Coltrane's Interstellar Space.

Yes, well, this is the problem here. You're conflating the noise genre with the use of noise as a tool. I think Markku addressed this particular bit rather well so I won't reinvent the wheel.

I will echo his question however. Did you actually listen to Merzbow?

I just listened to a "track" from Merzbow -- 'Minus Zero' is what it was called. It's interesting because the noise music I remembered was even more formless than this track. I can see how masochism would correlate with a fan of this work in particular.

I have to go now or else I'd rant more. This conflation of noise genre and noise as a tool is a crucial mistake however.

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Anonymous coltrane's ghost January 18, 2015 9:45 PM  

This conflation of noise genre and noise as a tool is a crucial mistake however

All right, I'll have one more go at this. The difference between noise as a tool and noise as a genre is abundantly clear to me, which should be obvious from my previous posts. I tried to show how even the naysayers may find noise tolerable or interesting in some form or another – even pure noise, in the case of crashing waves or rushing wind. For tolerable examples of the genre (which is itself unexpectedly broad, if there can be said to be only one), did you try the two suggested composers in my first post? I did listen to Merzbow, which is very familiar and not terribly interesting, though a bit fun in small doses. An hour would surely be unendurable. For those less exposed to the range of noise 'music', Merzbow-style stuff is mistakenly taken as representative of the whole.

[Y]ou have yet to establish any sort of logic or argument why the outliers are sane.

Aren't the outliers, whose existence your theory admits for, sane by definition, defying categorization as either masochistic or paranoid? Unless you have another diagnosis in mind, I'm not sure what I'm to defend against. Really, yours and zen0's insistence that there is pattern and order (that is, meaning) in the sound of wind serves as an excellent example of the paranoia you describe.

Anyway, as I don't aim to win converts, I'll now drop the matter.

Blogger Student in Blue January 19, 2015 2:25 PM  

It's several days past due where anyone is reading it anyway, so I'm dropping it as well.

Blogger Carlos Carrasco July 31, 2015 3:45 PM  

I opened a live journal blog less than a month ago. One of my five entries happened to be a review of Wright's "Transhuman and Subhuman" which garnered me a visit from your troll Yama.
Are you sure he's not the rabid one?

http://carlos-carrasco.livejournal.com/1348.html

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