Vox Popoli: The face of the Devil

The Church of England is marking a new era in its history as the Rev Libby Lane becomes the first woman to be ordained as a bishop. More than 100 members of the episcopate from England and other parts of the worldwide Anglican Church will lay hands on the 48-year-old vicar from Hale, Greater Manchester, to formally consecrate her during a service at York Minster. The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu will anoint her with oil in an ancient tradition tracing its origins to the prophets of the Old Testament.

The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Rev Justin Welby, will also be present, alongside female bishops from churches in other parts of the world.

The consecration marks the conclusion of a decades-long wrangle over the role of women in leadership in the established Church, the last great institution of British public life to open itself to full gender equality.

Does that look like someone who is sobered by the burden of assuming spiritual leadership? Or the smirking triumph of someone who has finally managed to corrupt a once-great institution?

As the Church of England finally succumbs to its entryist invaders, we can safely predict that the church leaders will be disappointed in their expectations: "Church leaders hope it will mark a moment of reconciliation between traditionalists and reformers on the issue."

It won't. It marks the death knell of the Church of England. The "new era" that is marked is the end.

Labels: Christianity

284 Comments:

ThirdMonkey January 26, 2015 3:08 PM: I believe the problem has arisen because we have a "divorce" ministry, and the class has turned into an echo chamber/bitching session. Their teenage kids are out of control, they want their yard mowed, and are bitter that they aren't haaaapppyy once they bought into the eat/pray/love nonsense. They come to the church office asking for help, and I think our pastor would rather pass the buck than lay down the Truth with these women. Also, I see a lack of older men/women teaching younger men/women, as our Sunday School classes are broken down by age. Despite having a membership of over 1,000 people, I have no real relationship with anyone 20 years older than myself. None of the older members want to disciple young marrieds in an effort to prevent divorce in the first place. OTOH, who would want to be discipled by a boomer career woman?

Didn't mean to hijack the the thread. Thanks for the prayers. Please resume the catholic/protestant/monogomy/polygomy antichrist mole discussion.
Stg58 / Animal Mother January 26, 2015 3:12 PM: To me, polygamy is merely seeking biblical justification to have lots of sex. I live sex just as much as the next guy with testosterone pumping through his veins. So, that's fine, but just admit: you like lots of trim.

Personally, if I were to be pro polygamy I'd be looking for threesomes on a regular basis.
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 3:14 PM: That's where "those held under your right hand" come in, Stg.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 3:15 PM: By the way, if the problem were celibacy, there should have been a lot of priests caught with women and girls. After all, we here know that only about 2% of men are homosexual, right? So let's say that 50% of priests were homosexual -- a staggering 2500% higher than expected -- then 50% of the abuse cases should have been with girls. But they weren't. Something like 80% were with boys, and almost always post-pubescent boys.

It was a homosexual problem, not a celibacy problem. This should go without saying, but: allowing a homosexual to marry a woman isn't going to keep him from molesting teenage boys if that's his urge. If anything, it'll make it easier for him to hide it by providing him with a beard.

Catholic dioceses have learned their lesson, and have been keeping the gays out for the most part these last couple decades. These churches that are embracing them and having gay-married pastors are going to go through the same reckoning someday, assuming the media doesn't help them cover it up.
Owen January 26, 2015 3:21 PM: Catholic dioceses have learned their lesson, and have been keeping the gays out for the most part these last couple decades.

Certainly explains the high level of African and South American priests in US parishes. If you're going to squeeze out gays, better have a deep bench.

Something about that sentence unnerves me.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 3:23 PM: For those wanting documentation that the Catholic priest abuse numbers weren't any worse than other denominations, here's the first link I came up with, and the money quote:

“There is no plausible evidence that Catholic priests are gangs of sexual predators, as they are being portrayed,” said Pennsylvania State University Prof. Philip Jenkins, eminent religion and history scholar, and a non-Catholic who’s studied the church’s abuse problems for 20 years.

Jenkins said there has been no formal study comparing denominations for rates of child abuse. However, insurers have been assessing the risks since they began offering riders on liability policies in the 1980s. Two of the largest insurers report no higher risks in covering Catholic churches than Protestant denominations.

Personally, I don't think "We're just as bad as everyone else!" is all that much to brag about, but there it is.
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 3:26 PM: Our real sin, Cail, was in the coverup, as it often is. If the church had claimed extraterritoriality, then tried the fuckers and burned them at the stake, or at least defrocked and excomunicated them, it would have been copacetic.
Corvinus January 26, 2015 3:30 PM: The first thing her smile made me think of was the Grinch, when he has an evil thought and his smile creeps up around his eyes.

@cailcorishev
Thread winner.
Stg58 / Animal Mother January 26, 2015 3:34 PM: Hey I'm the thread winner, Corvinus. Rycamor said so.
Owen January 26, 2015 3:35 PM: Hey I'm the thread winner, Corvinus. Rycamor said so.

Oh, great.

Another thread devolves into the classic, "Who won the thread? Stg58 or cail?"

Man, every stinking Monday, like clockwork.
Stilicho January 26, 2015 3:36 PM: tried the fuckers and burned them at the stake

Green wood or seasoned?
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 3:37 PM: I'd have to consult with a biblical scholar on that one, Stil.
Outlaw X January 26, 2015 3:39 PM: why don't she just have the mole removed?
Anonymous January 26, 2015 3:40 PM: In regards to the widows, each deacon has been assigned one or two widows to take care of. Our Senior Pastor and the Chairmen of the Deacons sees the "need" to add single moms and unwed women 25yrs and up to the list.

Assigning a man to care personally for an unwed 25-year-old woman? Sounds like a great opportunity, if you know what I mean and I think you do (nudge, nudge).

Seriously, do people think at all anymore?
Owen January 26, 2015 3:40 PM: I'm sure the mole is asking the same thing. What self-respecting (and likely self-aware) mole wants to be associated with that?
JohnR January 26, 2015 3:46 PM: Is that Lemmy's sister?
Anonymous January 26, 2015 3:51 PM: Our real sin, Cail, was in the coverup, as it often is.

Agreed. Especially since covering it up generally meant moving the priest elsewhere, where he could start again, making things worse. There was a common belief among modern psychologists at the time that therapy would cure it. So they'd send the priest off to get his head shrunk until he was "cured," and then drop him back into circulation. A priest who molested a friend of mine had been caught a couple times before; each time he'd be very sorry and get help and they'd be convinced he wouldn't do it again. Heck, he probably believed it, and he'd hold out for a few years, but it wouldn't last.
Mr. Tzu January 26, 2015 3:54 PM: I look forward to her sermons from: 1 Corinthians 14:34
34 Women[a] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

Teach me Rev Libby Lane, I need your council.
JartStar January 26, 2015 4:13 PM: Kratman is correct, the cover-up was the real scandal and why the RCC continues to pay victims today and will possibly do so for decades to come. The hierarchical structure and the secretive, arguably even closed nature of the clergy combined to allow molesters to be moved and continue their evil rather than properly disciplined and prosecuted. The appeals to insurance claims aren't very helpful because an important aspect of the scandal was quietly paying victims off for decades, which of course there'd be no insurance claims on record.

This scandal cannot be duplicated by Protestantism even if the exact same number of clergy was homosexual (20-40% 1980s), and were the same percentage of pedophiles simply because the structure isn't there to hide and move them.

So far the Vatican has admitted to paying $2.2 billion just in America and as many 100,000 victims.

This isn't an "anti-Catholic rant", and I suggest anyone who has interest in this look at the facts and learn how and why it has come about. BTW, while this scandal most certainly emptied the pews in some dioceses this isn't even the number one reason people are leaving the RCC today, but ultimately this thread isn't about the RCC directly but I wanted to present some of the pieces the puzzle of a great evil the RCC propagated against children since people continue to throw out the molestation jokes at the RCC's expense. The RCC is paying for and will continue to pay for its sins in this manner both monetarily and in reputation for a long time.
Stg58 / Animal Mother January 26, 2015 4:14 PM: I relinquish my claim to thread winner. John wins it, in my opinion.

"Is that Lemmy's sister?"

Amazing. Cail can take third place.
Steve January 26, 2015 4:34 PM: Ugly as sin.
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 4:38 PM: Jart:

Only about 15k demonstrable. The 100k I suspect come from the sort of prog terror-math that sees skyrocketing AIDS epidemics and a burgeoning rape crisis. And 2.2 bil over 15k people, or about 100k each after legal fees, is probably enough to have enticed the bulk of the victims out to make a claim.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 4:40 PM: JartStar, for what it's worth, I wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic numbers were higher during that era, for the reasons you mentioned and the one I did: homosexual infiltration. As for the insurance numbers, it might be worth noting that many accusations for abuse in the 70s/80s weren't made until 2002 or so. Up until then, I think many victims really didn't want to come forward, or thought the statute of limitations wouldn't allow them, until they saw others getting paid substantial amounts. (And no, I don't begrudge them what they got; I just wish it'd been taken out on the abusers and their bishops; maybe a pound of flesh per $100K that their flocks had to pony up.)

One thing that annoys me about it is that now everyone who volunteers for any work in the Church -- even something as innocuous as passing around the collection basket during Mass -- has to take the anti-abuse class. The class isn't as bad as I expected, but they insist on saying it had nothing to do with sexual orientation and that anyone's as likely to be an molester as anyone else, and that's simply not true (it's reminiscent of the "anyone can get AIDS" nonsense, which was peddled for the same reason, of course). And it's not like all the documentation we're saving up to prove that we all took the class will make any difference if there's another scandal -- as if the courts and the media will say, "Oh, you did your best to prevent it this time? Well done, then, never mind." No, we'll get hammered again regardless, so we should be doing whatever we can to keep deviants out in the first place, not trying to cover our legal liability.
Other Josh January 26, 2015 4:53 PM: @ThirdMonkey

Before your meeting tonight, read 1 Timothy 5:3-16. The Apostle Paul makes it very clear what widows the church should minister to, and what widows the church should not minister to. Show this passage to the men at your church. If they choose to follow God's clearly revealed will, all will be well. If they choose to reject God's clearly revealed will, you need to find yourself a new church - their true nature will have been revealed to you. God bless!
Anonymous January 26, 2015 5:17 PM: Mr. JartStar:

You posted in part:

"The RCC is paying for and will continue to pay for its sins in this manner both monetarily and in reputation for a long time. "

I do not think so.

The Catholic Bishops are not paying. The U.S. Taxpayer is - at least according to the British Magazine "The Economist".

The Economist estimates that the U.S> Bishops get only about 15% if their budget from the pews (and spend only about 6% of budget on parishes) and get the rest from State and federal government.

This year for instance the bishops' admin body (USCCB) had a starting budget of @ $170 million. About $70-million of which was from the feds.

As for reputation Pope Francis is currently the world's superstar. Reportedly 6-million turned out for just one of his Masses in the PI. He has been asked to address Congress. And Elton John has called for Holy Father Francis to be raised to the status of "Saint".

I think there is more to the great Scandal than meets the eye.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
dfordoom January 26, 2015 5:17 PM: Also, if anythng, priests diddling kids is an indictment of homosexuals, not catholics.

Agreed. The problem is that homosexuals have been infiltrating the churches for decades. This is what tolerance of homosexuality always leads to.
Johnny Caustic January 26, 2015 5:25 PM: why don't she just have the mole removed?

It's not one mole. Take a closer look at the photo.

I didn't notice all the other moles until I examined the photo the second time. Check out the profile of her nose, then for the coup de grace, closely examine her left nostril. It's true that the big brown one is particularly disgusting. But even if she removed it, up close she still wouldn't be a 3.
Tommy Hass January 26, 2015 5:26 PM: "By the way, if the problem were celibacy, there should have been a lot of priests caught with women and girls. After all, we here know that only about 2% of men are homosexual, right? So let's say that 50% of priests were homosexual -- a staggering 2500% higher than expected -- then 50% of the abuse cases should have been with girls. But they weren't. Something like 80% were with boys, and almost always post-pubescent boys.

It was a homosexual problem, not a celibacy problem. This should go without saying, but: allowing a homosexual to marry a woman isn't going to keep him from molesting teenage boys if that's his urge. If anything, it'll make it easier for him to hide it by providing him with a beard."

Allowing priests to marry women will rob homosexuals of plausible deniability that they get when celibacy is still enforced.

"I'm not a fudge packer mom, I just found my calling as a priest!"

"Uh, son, priests can marry now. That excuse don't fly."

"Oh..."

Suddenly, homos stop bothering with the priesthood, unless they are truly committed.
Stilicho January 26, 2015 5:27 PM: @ Richard Comerford, well if you've got the federal gov't and Elton John on your side as well as being "the world's superstar"... what could go possibly go wrong?
Tommy Hass January 26, 2015 5:33 PM: Seriously, you cannot tell me that they didn't pick this warthog on purpose.

She looks like she took a daily facial deep poor cleanse in the Ganges. Brrrr....
Anonymous January 26, 2015 5:39 PM: Mr. Stilicho:

Thank you for your reply wherein you posted in part:

"if you've got the federal gov't and Elton John on your side as well as being "the world's superstar"... what could go possibly go wrong?"

In a word: everything. Before he resigned Pope Benedict called for the world's Bishops to stop taking money from governments.

There is a danger of Bishops who are paid by government of becoming government ministers rather than shepherds of souls.

IMO Bishops as Ministers of State tend to adopt the culture's values rather than Christ's Gospel.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Quadko January 26, 2015 6:07 PM: Not that Protestants live up to this standard any better than Catholics and Orthodox, but I've thought applying the leadership qualification that a church leader must have raised respectful believing kids in a stable marriage before they are proven to lead in the Body of Christ would be a fantastic filter for leadership. It means our (biblical) elders would indeed be elders in all good senses of the word.

It would become harder to make a career out of ministry, but that isn't a bad thing in my book, either, given the entire Church's track record through history. Only people trustworthy around children, sufficiently sexed, proven practical teachers, and able to cope with life's surprises sufficiently to keep a family afloat and together, plus the godliness and non-leadership service standards; that would be a different body of Christ no matter what organizational splinters make it up.
Stg58 / Animal Mother January 26, 2015 6:13 PM: An elder in my church was benched for that exact reason, Quadko.
Akulkis January 26, 2015 6:33 PM: "The funny thing is a strong conservative pope could simply roll out the red carpet for a ton of disenfranchised non-Churchian protestantsand clean up. But of course our new SJW one will simply screw it up.

Good times!"

The problem there is that the Roman church has been churchian since the 1400's, if not earlier.
TheCitadel January 26, 2015 6:35 PM: Indeed. ABSOLUTE HERESY, and her inner ugliness is reflected in her appearance. Praise God for the man who interrupted what she no doubt considered her 'special day' by denouncing her in the church.

Women CANNOT be priests. This is a usurpation of Tradition and an insult to thousands of years of Christian teaching!

Libby Lane, you wart, unless you resign and repent, you are damned for this mockery alone. God does not tolerate liars and deceivers such as you.

May the Lord strike this 'church' down and a new church, faithful to the commands of God be blessed with growth.

Feminazis destroy everything, and few are more sadistic than the fugly whores of Britain who maintain power positions.
Quadko January 26, 2015 6:47 PM: @Stg58 / Animal Mother: I'm impressed. That's a healthy sign, glad the are out there!
Scintan January 26, 2015 7:02 PM: Vox Popoli, the site where a picture of someone who looks to be Willem Dafoe's lesbian sister, leads to an earnest discussion of polygamy.

This is why I keep coming back here, year after year: This place has logic and thought chains that are almost as bizarre and twisted as my own.
MendoScot January 26, 2015 7:29 PM: A Catholic pedophile or an Anglican lesbian.

Shall we vote for our preference?
rubberducky January 26, 2015 7:31 PM: A few years ago I had the heavy duty to attend funereal services for an Anglican friend of mine who tragically took his own life. Scuttling into my pew, I noticed the priest was female, and I wondered how she'd handle this particularly thorny problem, for what a problem it was, both emotional and theological.

What she came up with astounded me. She claimed that some problems were not only beyond human understanding, but that they were beyond even God's. That ordeal confirmed my already growing suspicion that the CoE was effectively spent as a relevant force, about to devolve into emotional driven gobbled-gook. Then, they elected that Druid dude as Archbishop of Canterbury, and the parade became a horrorshow. Then they even rewarded a bugger who left his wife and child to shack up with his male lover by making him a bishop, and sent out a documentary about that to all their parishes about how great he was for being true to himself.

They're done alright. Been done. As I knew on that day when I reflected the heretical preaching of the first female priest I ever encountered.
Jonathan January 26, 2015 7:36 PM: ugly as sin

No physical human imperfect can approach the ugliness of sin.
Titus Didius Tacitus January 26, 2015 8:07 PM: Over and over, corruption is from the top down.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 8:21 PM: Mr. MendoScot:

You posted in part:

"Shall we vote for our preference?"

Or would Almighty God want us to pray for the salvation of their immortal souls instead?

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Zimri January 26, 2015 8:22 PM: I am reminded of a DS9 episode, "Strange Bedfellows".

The kai (pope) Winn Adami serves the Bajorian prophets: these are transdimensional aliens living in a wormhole, so... prophets of the "celestial temple". But there are rival aliens cast out from this temple / wormhole. And Adami, being a status-hungry Nurse Ratched (srsly, played by the same actress), now receives these rebel angels' visions.

She goes to one of our protagonists and confesses tearfully that she wants to serve the true prophets. She is told, it was power that got her to this mess; to be loved by the true prophets, she must renounce power.

This bishop is Winn Adami on her way to power.
Giuseppe January 26, 2015 8:25 PM: Tom Kratman,
regarding your query on Biblical source re: Matthew 19:6 -
I have an interlinear Greek Bible, but for this sort of thing I go to the Aramaic interlinear, the Peshitta Bible compiled by Rev. David Bausch (it also reads right to left).

The passage in question is Matthew 19:5 and 19:6 and word for word translation from Aramaic reads as follows:

19:5 And he said - because of - this - shall leave - a man - his father - and his mother - and shall cleave - to his wife - and they shall be - two of them - one - flesh

19:6 Therefore - not - they were - two - but - one - flesh - the things - therefore - that God - has united - a son of man - not - let separate

I read that as you being right basically.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 8:44 PM: Mr. Akulkis:

You posted in part:

"The problem there is that the Roman church has been churchian since the 1400's, if not earlier."

Perhaps even earlier than that.

At the foot of the Cross stood only one of the Twelve. Of the remaining: one had betrayed Him, one had denied Him 3-times, one doubted Him; and the rest hid in fear.

Things have not changed much it seems to me.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Zimri January 26, 2015 8:50 PM: Richard W Comerford, technically Judah the Twin (Thomas) hadn't publicly doubted him YET. That was after the Resurrection when Thomas voiced his opinion.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 9:05 PM: Mr. Zimri:

Thank you for your reply wherein you posted in part:

"technically Judah the Twin (Thomas) hadn't publicly doubted him YET."

Even I, The Great Dummy, know that. But I like the flow of it.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Anubis January 26, 2015 9:28 PM: "Vox Popoli, the site where a picture of someone who looks to be Willem Dafoe's lesbian sister, leads to an earnest discussion of polygamy."

Catch 22. You can have 50 wives but they all look as bad as her.
Bro. Longtail January 26, 2015 9:45 PM: Is the appointment of this woman really an insurmountable threat to the continued existence of the Church of England.

I can't believe that after 248 comments no one has said it yet, but perhaps you lot are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 10:14 PM: Bro. Longtail:

You posted in part:

"Is the appointment of this woman really an insurmountable threat to the continued existence of the Church of England."

The Church of England is a State sanctioned and funded institution. Its bosses are part of the ruling establishment. It will exist as long as the English ruling class want it to exist.

The appointment of a pagan priestess to be a minor boss in what amounts to a secular department of government is, perhaps, not really worth much commentary.

Other than that the pagan priestess is really, really ugly.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 10:19 PM: "I have an interlinear Greek Bible, but for this sort of thing I go to the Aramaic interlinear, the Peshitta Bible compiled by Rev. David Bausch (it also reads right to left)."

You might find it interesting, Giuseppe, that in 91 I ran a Christian town - actually Catholic since coming back into full communion with Rome,15 or so years prior - in Northern Iraq, where the church was dated 1938, IIRC, but the foundations were probably pre-Christian, and where mass was said, and hymns were sung, in Aramaic. Interesting experience all around, nice, nice people (Assyrians), but totally demilitarized and helpless.

I don't know if I'm right or not. As mentioned, I don't have a necessary moral problem with polygamy, but don't think it works well, generally, and am at a loss how the mortal can be one flesh with two parts. God can do this. Us? Not so obviously.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 10:20 PM: The Devil? Shit, He's a better looking guy, even if he has a hoof.

- Andromalius
Holmwood January 26, 2015 10:44 PM: Please do pray for those Anglicans who still struggle at the thought of swimming the Tiber, foaming with much blood as it is.

@Col. Kratman, thank you for what you've said on the subject of Anglicanism vs RC. It is historically informed, thoughtful, and welcoming to at least this Anglican.

I do respectfully disagree with the view of "creaky and shallow", at least on the shallow part, but such disagreement is but a footnote now.

rubberducky said:
Then, they elected that Druid dude as Archbishop of Canterbury,

No, no, no, no sir! The Druid was foisted on the Church by Tony Blair who converted to Roman Catholicism the nanosecond he stopped being PM. The idea that he was elected betrays a profound ignorance of how the CofE (and one of the world's two (?) official theocracies) works.

BTW, Blair converting to RC is emphatically not a hit on my good brothers across the Tiber in Col. Kratman's felicitous phrase, simply a note that whatever was in Blair's mind, it was unlikely to be the best theological interests of the CofE anymore than his premiership was in the best interests of the typical Englishman.

For myself? I look at the waters of the Tiber. I see brothers on the other side, beckoning. I see fire and brimstone on my side, likely significantly more than on the other bank.
Rabbi B January 26, 2015 10:49 PM: This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabbi B January 26, 2015 10:51 PM: This comment has been removed by the author.
Bro. Longtail January 26, 2015 10:53 PM: Mr. Comerford….way to suck all the funny out of my joke! The line you quoted from me about an 'insurmountable threat' was but a set up to my punch line about making 'a mountain out of a molehill'.

Frankly, I look at this new Anglican bishop and just think, "Holy Moley"
And the punch lines just keep a'comin'.
Rabbi B January 26, 2015 11:04 PM: And I sucked out the last gasp ... nice one Bro. Longtail :)
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 11:21 PM: Holmwood:

The creaky and shallow part is a sense I have that Anglicans felt all along that, however necessary the break was in geopoltical terms, theologically it was unsound and that much of what they did, after that, was a reflection that they really weren't entirely comfortable with the split. But that's just a sense I have, not something I am certain is correct. I note, though, in support, that a substantial minority refused to convert, despite disadvntages, and reconversions back to RC have been notable amongst the upper classes. I am thinking specificallty of Charles Spencer-Churchill, but I think there have been rather more than that. Further, while I cannot say that all the best English theologians were Catholic, one can't help but notice how many of them were, and that even some of those who were not flirted with or at least considered the change.

Finally, I suspect that the Roman Church would be better with the purer parts of England back in it, and the English Church would be infinitely better off back in full communion with Rome.
Tom Kratman January 26, 2015 11:24 PM: "For myself? I look at the waters of the Tiber. I see brothers on the other side, beckoning. I see fire and brimstone on my side, likely significantly more than on the other bank. "

Oh, and I'd be _most_surprised if there weren't a Swiss Guardsman with a life preserver on a rope waiting to toss it to you, to help you across, should you need it.
Anonymous January 26, 2015 11:36 PM: Brother L

Apologies

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Titus Didius Tacitus January 26, 2015 11:49 PM: Richard W Comerford: "The Church of England is a State sanctioned and funded institution. Its bosses are part of the ruling establishment. It will exist as long as the English ruling class want it to exist."

Right.

Henry's church worked because he was still a Christian, even though he was also a tyrant. That is a workable model (after the death of the tyrant), not too different from Russian Orthodoxy.

But Russian Orthodoxy was stifled when the government of Russia was 80-85% Jewish (according to Putin) and many churches were destroyed but not even one synagogue. And now that England has a lot of Jewish moral leadership in its ruling class, the Church of England is getting the cultural Marxist treatment, which is more corrupting than economic Marxism.

In principle an English Putin could restore the dignity of the national church in England as Putin has done it in Russia, but first you need a revolution, and (before or after the revolution) you need an exodus of Jews to Israel and other countries, such as gave Russia a limited amount of relief (even though the oligarchs are still there), and in England far more than in Russia the new Christian king would have to get involved in the affairs of the polluted church and impose a clean-up.

The best hope for Henry's church would be another Henry.
Titus Didius Tacitus January 27, 2015 12:07 AM: Richard W Comerford: "The appointment of a pagan priestess to be a minor boss in what amounts to a secular department of government is, perhaps, not really worth much commentary.

Other than that the pagan priestess is really, really ugly."

That's no pagan priestess.

I find it hard to imagine that the Vestal Virgins would have tolerated her company. They played their part in a religion with rules, and the death penalty should they fall short of the required standard, and also a religion with a strict division of sacred responsibilities by sex, hence the need for their role.

Not all priestesses were as pure as the Vestals, and there's more than one way a woman in (some) pagan temples might have been serving the cause. But the Rev. Libby Lane isn't well qualified as a temple prostitute either.
Anonymous January 27, 2015 12:11 AM: She reminds me of someone.
Anonymous January 27, 2015 12:32 AM: Mr. Titus Didius Tacitus:

Thank you for your replies.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Anonymous January 27, 2015 12:38 AM: Re: CofE Bishops Male & Female

To the best of my knowledge the CofE Bishops in the UK and USA do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity, True God and True Man, Who died on the Cross for our sins, rose on the third day and now sits at the right hand of the Father waiting to judge us.

If I am wrong kindly correct me.

God bless

Richard W Comerford
Holmwood January 27, 2015 12:44 AM: @Col Kratman, thanks for the responses. To clarify (at the risk of boring you and others) I can agree with you on creaky, partly, for the reasons you suggest. Shallow, no.

Perhaps precisely as a reaction to the peculiar fusion of conditions ultimately forming the Anglican Church, most intelligent Anglicans I know [conceded, a limited sample] have thought and read very deeply on matters theological, historical, and spiritual.

I recently read of the battle to retain Malta [against the Muslims, not the Germans], and the way that the [recent, under a generation ago] Anglican departure had weakened the united Knights of Christendom. If I were a certain species of writer, I'd say it "filled me with sorrow". I'll say it made me sad and mad.

You're right about many of the most thoughtful English theologians... and writers. Look alone at Tolkien.

This now departs from swimming the Tiber to simply look historically at the Church of England. And sure, here I argue.

Something magnificent happened there. The War against Slavery; the very idea that one could battle this.

Something subtle and different about the Church created room for rapid and beneficial change that itself influenced other nations, and the Romans.

It's not for nothing that the wealthiest nations tend to have common law, and the poorest Napoleonic. Perhaps unconnected to Church, but interesting.

And yet. And yet. Here we stand. You are right in nearly all that you say, I think particularly in the argument that the Roman Church would be better off with England back in the Communion.

I liked your image of the Swiss Guardsman throwing a lifeline.

Thank you, good sir.
-Holmwood
Tom Kratman January 27, 2015 1:43 AM: Well..I'll give you another one; at the time it happened, the Protestant Reformation was a good thing...for the Roman Catholic Church, which had drifted quite a bit and was in need of a shake up. As for "shallow," it may be a semantic thing, but the break itself strikes me as internally more apparent than real, with much of the attitude, much of the doctrine, and much of the ritual retained; much moreso, in any case, than most other Protestant churches did. And, then too, it is, "Anglican Catholic," is it not?

Is that the Crowley book? If so, highest recomendations. The man has no great name to speak of, or not yet, anyway, but he can write history and make it come alive. For whatever it may be worth, there were alleged to be English and German protestants at Lepanto. Mercenaries? Perhaps, but then so were many.
Discard January 27, 2015 2:27 AM: Dr John Sentamu, Archbishop of York, is a Black fellow, not an Englishman.
Giuseppe January 27, 2015 3:50 AM: Tom Kratman,
Very interesting. By the way, I left you a reply on the other thread, it also an offer of posting you a book. PM me if you want it. Just started your desert called peace book.
Joshua Sinistar January 27, 2015 5:14 AM: I don't want to speak for God, but I can clarify the polygamy issue. The concept of marriage is entirely for the benefit of children who need parents to guide and take care of them. Polygamy is allowed to keep men from abandoning wives when they get old. The current custom of throwing first wives away after they become old is why polygamy is OK. The idea is when your wife gets old and you are tempted to leave for greener pastures, you have the option of adding a younger wife, and still keep your old one. This harem shit is just people not understanding the purpose of these laws and using them for things they weren't supposed to do.
Anonymous January 27, 2015 5:26 AM: @Cail Corishev

Its not the homosexual pedophilia that is the most major problem but the coverup. If those kiddy-fiddlers weren't shielded from judgment by people in the church at the time. Then the damage from the scandals wouldn't have been as damaging.

If the lavender mafia had nowhere to hide then they cannot continue in the Catholic church with impunity.
Tom Kratman January 27, 2015 8:30 AM: Answered in that thread. And, by all means, send it Giuseppe. For various reasons I am several hundred books behind in my reading, so I cannot say when I will be able to read it. Enjoy ADCP, but note that it's really only half a book. I was at over half a million words and Toni Weisskopf said, "Too hard to bind; cut it in half." The other half is Carnifex.
Tom Kratman January 27, 2015 8:56 AM: That's _a_ reason, Joshua, but not the only reason. The other reason is that men who want second (etc.) "wives" and younger "wives," and can afford them (or, increasingly, can get the state to pay for them for him), will have them notwithstanding any law to the contrary, and notwithstanding that the girls won't actually _be_ wives with all the legal protections of being wives for themselves and their children. Legal polygamy is, therefore, to some extent, a recognition that men are frequently faithless shits and are, perhaps, designed to be so.

You can see an echo of this in Latin law and culture, where it is pretty much expected that rich men will have second families, and where bastardy has nothing to do with whether a father and mother are married, but with whether he recognizes her children as his, gives them his name, and thus understakes, legally, morally, and as a matter of public duty and social prestige to support them, discipline them, and educate and raise them.
Tom Kratman January 27, 2015 9:10 AM: Oh, and that some of that is going to be driven by shortage of men / excess women caused by losses in war.

I thought about this wrt Carrera's war, in the ADCP series, and had him decide that widow's pensions would continue for the wives of the men killed, even if she found another man, provided said man was also in the legions. That's part under the table veteran's benefit, part education of the next generation, part cost saving by consolidating support facilities (medical and such), and part recognition that it's going to happen anyway - pipes must, after all, be cleaned, and ashes hauled - so why not regulate it for everyone's benefit. It also ties into the virgnity bonus (which drives Chris Nuttall absolutely batshit), whereby a young bride to be, the bans having been posted, can, in her own discretion, present herself to a legion doctor and get certified as a virgin x months prior to marriage. If she is so certified, upon marriage she - not her husband, not her family, _she_ - gets a gift from the legions, a check sufficient to cover the DP on a small house.

How's that for social engineering in an illiberal vein?
Anonymous January 27, 2015 9:28 AM: Its not the homosexual pedophilia that is the most major problem but the coverup.

Right, but without the homosexual infiltration in the first place, there's never a coverup.

And it wasn't pedophilia. That plays into the lie. This was just homosexual men having sex with the kind of very young men they tend to be attracted to. "Normal" homosexuality, in other words, but that fact had to be obscured.

If a 40-year-old man running a girls' boarding school got caught playing around with a couple of 15- and 16-year-olds, you wouldn't call him a pedophile; you'd call him a dirty old man.
Joshua Sinistar January 27, 2015 4:46 PM: The one real improvement that Islam made is the permanent removal of these so-called womens' rights that have made women the enemy of men and driven the socialists farther than they could have ever gone in Islam. There are two things that are completely disastrous for a society: an excess male population who are unmarried and loose women. Womens' rights have caused many men to give up on marriage entirely, and left women to ride the cock carousel until their value reaches zero. The Islamic system that makes women subservient to their fathers and then their husbands totally destroys the grrl power feminists and prevents most of the damage that has happened when women started voting for assholes like Bill Clinton and resident Evil in the White House right now. It also eliminates this damn stupid tolerate the foreigner and pity the poor bum who wants to kill you crap. A multitude of evils could be eliminated by eliminating womens' rights.
Dystopic January 27, 2015 5:27 PM: I am reminded of the burning which featured heavily in Victoria.
Ezra January 27, 2015 9:48 PM: Just going to leave this here, in case it hasn't been seen yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpib4R0mkoA
ChicagoRefugee January 27, 2015 11:30 PM: "The RCC is paying for and will continue to pay for its sins in this manner both monetarily and in reputation for a long time. "

I do not think so.

Dear Mr. Comerford,

I have a 15 year old son who is somewhat spiritually unmoored for one reason and another. Any mention of the Roman Catholic Church as a potential direction is met with utter disgust. He probably holds satanism in higher regard than the RCC. He didn't learn this at home, and it's all because of the child abuse scandals - in particular, the coverups.

You might also consider the case of Ireland which is undergoing something of an anti-cleric revolution in law triggered by, again, child abuse scandals.

I seem to recall something about millstones and the sea?

Don't let the celebrity effect of the current occupant of Peter's Chair fool you. Obama drew huge crowds too. How has that worked out for the US? How many among the pope's crowd do you think will turn up at mass for the next Holy Day of Obligation?

Tl;dr With all due respect, you're wrong. And turning the pope into a pop star won't fix it.
Anonymous January 28, 2015 12:38 AM: Mr. ChicagoRefugee:

Thank you for your reply wherein you posted in part:

"I have a 15 year old son who is somewhat spiritually unmoored for one reason and another."

I will remember your son's intention before the Blessed Sacrament.

and in part:

"You might also consider the case of Ireland "

I have. And the Church bureaucracy is doing quite well there, thank you.

"I seem to recall something about millstones and the sea?"

But punishment for our sins (and I am a great sinner) is not necessarily seen in this present life. We have to wait for Judgment Day.

and in part:

"Obama drew huge crowds too. How has that worked out for the US?"

It has worked out quite well for President Obama

and in part:

"How many among the pope's crowd do you think will turn up at mass for the next Holy Day of Obligation?"

We are I think talking at cross purposes. I am speaking of worldly, fleeting, power and influence. The Church bureaucracy has weathered the storm of the great scandal quite well. It has now at this moment, in worldly terms, even more power and money.

and in part:

"With all due respect, you're wrong."

I am due little, if any, respect but I am right
.
Do not believe me? Look at the Catholic Church bureaucracy budgets for 2015 in the USA and Germany.

and finally in part:

"And turning the pope into a pop star won't fix it."

Now you are wrong (in worldly terms). It HAS fixed it. Now the world's great and powerful hustle off to the Vatican for photo ops with Holy Father Francis. This is an extended Palm Sunday for the Pope.

Of course where the great and powerful will be on the Pope's Good Friday is anybody's guess; but certainly not at the foot of the Pope's Cross.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

And turning the pope into a pop star won't fix it.
Manveer Claire January 28, 2015 5:40 AM: For those that keep insinuating that celibacy leads to pedophilia, it doesn't. Pedophiles seek out jobs where they can get access to children. The priests that molest children had every intention of doing so before they became priests.

I don't see why it's so hard to comprehend. It has nothing to do with Catholicism or celibacy.
TheCitadel January 29, 2015 12:42 AM: Her appearance reflects her inner ugliness
Chris Gale January 29, 2015 3:47 AM: Firstly, I am not Anglican.... but I know many who are, and I think I understand what is going on.
The Anglican church used to be evangelical, as in it preached the Gospel. The first sermon preached in my country (NZ) was by an Anglican (Samuel Marsden) 200 years ago. And some communities kept that faith.

But in the West they got too broad. In NZ, we have had women bishops for a long time, women ministers in the Presbyterian Church, and the debate has moved to letting gays into those positions. Because equality.

Now, the African and Arab and Asian Anglicans think this is barmy and unscriptural. Interestingly, they have alive and growing churches. The liberal pagans who run the Western Anglican church think of them as pagan and primitive.

So... some observations.

1. Woman ministers have been a disaster. Not the people necessarily: I know some thoroughly decent women who have taken orders who probably have a greater faith than I. But men do not listen to them, and women gossip about them. The family gets subverted, and they do not know how to lead men.

2. The church gets caught up too much in social work and not the gospel. Women are brilliant at caring for kids and each other and teaching women and small groups.... but do not want to preach the hard parts of scripture, or read the difficult parts of the lectionary.

3. Men will lead anyway. Because there are more brilliant men (genetic spread of talent: there are far more stupid men as well) than women, and the church does select them well.

But the UK Anglicans are toast. Their rules imply the head of the church is the Queen, but the Act of Settlement made that head functionally the Prime Minister. Who has functionally been a pagan for generations.
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