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Saturday, January 24, 2015

The faux sociopaths

John C. Wright explains that the Left is evil, not stupid:
Leftists are people who have a conscience but act like sociopaths. If the Leftist were really a sociopath, he would not need excuses, justifications, and rationalizations to fill his yammering mouth and empty his wrathful brain.

Please note also that this behavior only surfaces on matters where the Leftist has turned Left and turned off his brain in a vain attempt to turn off his conscience, which he wrongly believes to be lodged in the brain. A Leftist can be a good coworker, even a good friend, if you stick to topics where the Leftist brain-parasite called guilt does not take root and bloom like ghastly fungi expanding from his hypothalamus and medulla oblongata to suck up all his gray matter and ooze sinuously out of eyes, nostrils, mouth, ears.

I have talked with social Leftists about economic issues, for example, without triggering their brain-fungi response. The Leftist will mouth the normal sounding American ideals about Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness provided you do not crowd him too closely to ask him what those things mean, or why their heroes Che and Mao and crystal meth dealer Matthew Shepard slain by his gay lover and fellow drug dealer Aaron McKinney fit into the idea of the American Way, then and only then will the brain fungi erupt, and the human-shaped skull be cracked and flung aside, revealing the fleshy lobes and convolutions of the nonhuman being beneath.

Leftists are reasonable and decent people except in their particular areas of sensitivity, by which I mean, of course, where they are hiding their smothering guilt, and — this point bears emphasizing — not all of them are sensitive about the same thing, because not all of them sold the same section of their brains to the Fungi from Yuggoth for the same reason.

No one has sold all his brain, and no one is an entirely self consistent Leftist, so what triggers one Leftist into frothing inanity is not what triggers another. But the behavior once triggered is the same. That behavior is flight from reason.

As stated above, Leftism is what you get when you stop reasoning.

Their reasoning is marred and crippled because they mar and cripple reason so that reason will not operate properly. They want reason not to operate properly because reason shows them a truth that they cannot abide. They cannot abide the truth because the truth condemns them. Truth condemns them because they do evil.
We are all potential Leftists. We are all capable of rationalizing away our own particular sins. How good I am, because I am not a glutton, says the slender whore. How good I am, because I am not a slut, says the obese woman as she stuffs her face. How good I am, because I am not a murderer, says the homosexual. How good I am, because I am not a thief, says the killer.

It is only when attention is drawn to their own particular sin, to OUR own sin, that the human mind goes haywire, because it is hard to look at yourself in the mirror and say: "I am a sinner. I am corrupt. I am fallen short of the glory of God."

And yet, whether we admit it or not, we have.

We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left. We are only more sane because we do not run from our sins, we do not hide from them, and we know better than to try to justify them. But we commit them, all the same. Don't pretend otherwise, for doing so is the first step on the path to becoming differently and incompletely sane.

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142 Comments:

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis January 24, 2015 7:12 PM  

for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Anonymous PA January 24, 2015 7:44 PM  

I can't get past Leftists' gratuitous hate of regular whites.

Blogger James Dixon January 24, 2015 7:53 PM  

> But we commit them, all the same. Don't pretend otherwise, for doing so is the first step on the path to becoming differently and incompletely sane.

The 1928 Book of Common Prayer, Morning Prayer service, A General Confession:

ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father; We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep. We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against thy holy laws. We have left undone those things which we ought to have done; And we have done those things which we ought not to have done; And there is no health in us.

That seems to sum it up pretty well.

Anonymous Corvinus January 24, 2015 7:56 PM  

Leftoids are nice people except when discussing the only things that matter.

But we commit them, all the same. Don't pretend otherwise, for doing so is the first step on the path to becoming differently and incompletely sane.

Sin makes you crazy. And if you're a Catholic, confession/penance is literally the most important sacrament for you to do correctly.

I can't get past Leftists' gratuitous hate of regular whites.

@PA I suspect it's because European man brought Christianity to the rest of the world, and they'll never, ever forgive him for doing that.

Blogger Log January 24, 2015 7:57 PM  

So the Right is just as evil, not better, but saner. But saner isn't better.

But somehow the Right is, of course, better, otherwise we'd be on the Left. But the betterness of the Right does not consist in its improved sanity over the left.

Blogger James Dixon January 24, 2015 8:06 PM  

> But saner isn't better.

Depends on what you mean by better. In God's view, no. But we do have a better grasp of reality, and that does tend to produce better outcomes.

Anonymous Open Minded Caring January 24, 2015 8:07 PM  

You Christianists are very bad human beings. All of you.

Jesus votes Democrat.

Blogger WATYF January 24, 2015 8:14 PM  

But saner isn't better.

Did you reason your way to this conclusion?

WATYF

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot(Ret.) January 24, 2015 8:20 PM  

Well if God can love the Jews,
He can love anybody,
even me.

DannyR

Anonymous Giuseppe January 24, 2015 8:20 PM  

VD,
Glad you ended it as you did. As I was reading I was thinking "WTF? I don't deny my sins. Revelled in a few or more maybe, but never denied them."
The defining characteristic of the rabbit is hypocrisy.

Blogger Log January 24, 2015 8:22 PM  

We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left. We are only more sane because we do not run from our sins, we do not hide from them, and we know better than to try to justify them.

I read the OP.

What is the Right except "We Will (Sometimes) Not Be Ruled (By You)," and what is the Left except "We Will (Always) Rule (You)"?

The third way is not believed in.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Blogger Remo January 24, 2015 8:23 PM  

OMC. There isn't voting in heaven as GODS heaven is perfect. Voting only matters when you have a choice between sub-optimal outcomes which doesn't happen in heaven. Jesus doesn't vote - he is King - and he does the will of the father whose judgement is not subject to majority rabbit approval. Oh and the devil won't let you vote either so just get that whole nothing notion out of your head

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 8:28 PM  

Self-flaggelation, however, is not the solution. Especially in public. It is unseemly, something a Mohammedan might indulge in, like conspicuous public prayer rituals.

I would suggest, however, that if one is so inclined, they should use implements that draw blood.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 24, 2015 8:51 PM  

To VD or anyone engaged in this battle against the left:

Has anyone noticed how the Left relishes finding embarassing observations of the Right and then broadcasting it loudly and in the most venomous and acrid fashion? It's almost as if I'm quite literally watching demons lash out at an exorcist when I see them spew out their hateful insults.

I propose that whenever you witness one of these lunatics pointing out something on the Right, you return the favor and point out something on the Left that ought to embarass them.

These tongue-in-cheek assaults should be met. Even if you are not a Republican, try to realize that when the Left attacks Republicans, they are actually attacking you in most cases.

Blogger Log January 24, 2015 8:57 PM  

In other words, do unto them what they do to you.

That'll serve them.

Matthew 7:12
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Luke 6:46
46 ¶And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 8:59 PM  

I was going to say something like " If you have not read the whole thing yet, you should do so now." but now I have a confession instead. I have sinned a grievous sin. I had not yet bookmarked Mr. Wright's site in my "favorites" thingy.

Great googly-moogly, that is powerful stuff.

"Word fetishes"..... the whole thing reminded me of Elijah's demonstration on Mt. Carmel:

At noon, Elijah began taunting the people about their false god. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened." So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention. The people continued dancing throughout the day....

And the longer no response was obtained, the louder they cried, and began flagellating themselves.

Shizzle, I was so busy in praise I almost forgot to bookmark.....now worries, done!

Anonymous kh123 January 24, 2015 9:06 PM  

It's big, it's heavy, it's wood.

It's better than bad, it's... Wait a minute...

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 9:16 PM  

if he were open to persuasion by reason, he would not be a Leftist, which is the state of pretending you have a mental disease so as to avoid introspection.

J.C.W.

This sums up the Shut up Demo post.

"I am so fragile, if you persist, I shall break....." Bring in the fainting couch!"

Blogger Shibes Meadow January 24, 2015 9:20 PM  

As a Catholic, I thank God for the Sacrament of Penance, aka Reconciliation aka Confession. I find that when I sin, I become -- for lack of a better term -- "unplugged" from God. And once that happens, I am toast. My ability to resist temptation drops to zero. My prayer life ceases. All that was good in me shuts down, replaced by Guilt -- and, of course, the craving to sin again.

Imagine a person that has been so severely injured that his body has lost the ability to breathe and pump its own blood. Left to itself, this body is nothing but meat, and will soon perish forever, and the soul of the man that was once united with it will depart. But hook that body up to a hospital life-support system and suddenly breath enters into its lungs, blood begins to flow through its veins -- and suddenly the possibility exists that the soul associated with that body might be saved.

This crude analogy is, I think, a good model for what happens when we are saved by Christ. We are all injured by Original Sin. Due to that injury, our lives are winding down; left untreated, we will soon die, and our souls will be lost forever.

But "Baptism now saves you" [1 Pet. 3:20-21]: when we are "plugged in" to the Church via the Sacrament of Baptism, it is as if an injured body is connected to a life support system. The spiral into death is arrested; the possibility for salvation exists. As long as our sinful bodies are united with Christ via the Sacraments, we have every hope that we may someday become well -- that is, be made perfect, which is what Paradise means.

Sin is a disconnection. It is as if a person on life support were to reach out and jerk the power cord of his own life support machine out of the socket. The minute the connection is broken, we begin to weaken and die again. Only when we ask a nurse for help -- that is, we confess our sins to a priest of the Church as our Lord instructed [John 20:21–23] -- can that nurse plug the machine in again and connect us to the source of our life.. [MOAR]

Blogger Shibes Meadow January 24, 2015 9:21 PM  

This is only an analogy, and not a particularly apt one at that. But I have found out through personal experience just how true the restorative power of sacramental confession is. I have never had much problem with the World or the Devil; the World does not interest me, and I actively hate the Devil. My problem has always been the Flesh. I am a very carnal person, and I have always been prey to the vices of the flesh. When I was single, I was a very active fornicator; after I became a husband, my adultery in the flesh stopped, but the dirty mind behind it remained as active as ever. Because of this, I have often fallen into periods of self-indulgence of these private lusts, with all the spiritual and physical self-abuse they entail.

But over the years God, His mother, and his saints have come to my aid. So long as I remain in communion with Christ via the Church, and I "pray without ceasing" [1 Thessalonians 5:17, Ephesians 6:18, Luke 21:36] to my saints and angels, to Saint Mary, and to Christ, God supplies me the strength to resist these disordered impulses. The minute I break that communion, the strength disappears. It is obviously all Him and none of me.

There is a reason that the Sacrament of Communion is denied to those who are in a state of objective mortal sin: it is that there can be no union between one's own dead flesh and the Living Bread that is the Flesh and Blood of the Lord. Giving the Lord's Body and Blood to an unrepentant sinner is like stuffing bread into the mouth of a corpse: it does not nourish, and it dishonors the Bread. Only when one is in communion with Christ can one receive His Body and Blood through the Sacrament of Communion; only a living body can eat. When I am not in communion with Christ I become like a corpse; when that link is restored, only then can I eat that which can make me live forever.

And this is why I thank God that the Sacrament of Penance is there: it is the only way by which I can repent, restore the communion between Christ and myself, and gain thereby the strength to live another day.

I AM the true vine; and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; as I also have kept my Father's commandments, and do abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be filled.

This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you.
[John 15:1-12]

Anonymous John Scalzi's Brain January 24, 2015 9:22 PM  

Thanks for the advice, Vox.

I owe you a blowjob.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2015 9:40 PM  

@ John Scalzi' Brain > blowjob

And we will require it of you upon your Lawn, in the presence of your wife, and your daughter, and your poor dog.

Anonymous Snickers January 24, 2015 10:56 PM  

We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left. We are only more sane because we do not run from our sins, we do not hide from them, and we know better than to try to justify them. But we commit them, all the same. Don't pretend otherwise, for doing so is the first step on the path to becoming differently and incompletely sane.

We sinners of the right, the christian sinners on the right, have our sins forgiven. Eventually, we should stop committing them, through the sanctifying act of the holy spirit working in and on us. There should be a qualitative difference for the better.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 24, 2015 11:10 PM  

PA: "I can't get past Leftists' gratuitous hate of regular whites."

To the extent that Jews define leftism as well as liberalism, this is inevitable.

Without such influence, there need be no such hatred. Jack London was a leftist, and he did not hate whites. Many others had similar attitudes.

Anonymous GK Chesterton January 24, 2015 11:21 PM  

"We sinners of the right, the christian sinners on the right, have our sins forgiven. "

We catholics ones you mean. Those outside of Rome (like Vox) are hellbound, unfortunately.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 24, 2015 11:24 PM  

The problems of leftism arise when you decide that it is better to be relatively egalitarian in some sense, and reject the existing authorities, including rejecting their moral authority over you. A question for someone in this situation is: "what is the first, most essential thing that I should try to salvage from this wreck?"

The problems of rightism are deferred. You endorse relative inegalitarianism in some sense, and the established authorities, including their moral authority over you. All is well as long as there is no evidence that the authorities are corrupt, or worse, not on the side you think they are supposed to be on.

Blogger Markku January 24, 2015 11:58 PM  

We catholics ones you mean.

Typical Catholic dishonesty. You people make me sick. You know perfectly well he doesn't mean that.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 12:00 AM  

You are free to believe it, but not free to claim that Vox means what you know he doesn't.

Anonymous Sensei January 25, 2015 12:48 AM  

(English is a strange language. "X, you mean" usually means "X, I mean")

Blogger John Wright January 25, 2015 12:55 AM  

I am amused by this contrast:
Vox: "We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left."

Brain Fungi from planet Yuggoth: "You Christianists are very bad human beings. All of you."

Why in the world would the Brain Fungi think that agreeing with Vox Day -- that all men are sinners -- is some sort of rebuke or rebuttal?

But, as I said in my original post, I would bet a dollar that the Brain Fungi, if you asked him about some other topic, gardening, let us say, or car repair or video gaming, he could answer in clear and coherent sentences and not make a damned fool of himself.

(and I used the word damned here in full awareness of its dreadful theological weight. We are reading the words of a man who would rather throw himself into a lake of eternal fire than bow the knee to his Creator, be forgiven, be healed, and gain paradise.)

Blogger John Wright January 25, 2015 12:59 AM  

"Jesus votes Democrat."

If I may quote that eternal font of wisdom, Monty Pythons' Flying Circus, "You don't vote for kings."

Likewise, kings don't vote, nor does the King of Kings.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 1:02 AM  

That little comment was such a perfect storm of SJW stupidity in such few words (including the name), that my money is on it being parody from someone on our side.

Blogger Thordaddy January 25, 2015 1:19 AM  

Vox...

I ask you to not allow any individual to appear to speak for "me," uncommented, from what should be an errant IP address... Especially since it would seem to suggest an intent to sabotage my unlimited posting privilege.

But the true sin of the white Christian is his rejection of being a genuine white Supremacist.

White Christian = white Supremacist...

And any white Christian who rejects the above equation as false is the worst kind of sinner because he is actually no Christian at all, but mere liberal/leftist charlatan.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 1:27 AM  

Thordaddy: One can only see IP's if one is on the watch for them, so that cannot actually be done with reasonable effort. But if you will commit to always being logged in to your profile when you comment, then I can delete any messages I see that were posted using name/URL instead of being logged in.

Anonymous Jonathan January 25, 2015 1:43 AM  

I owe you a blowjob.

One wonders as to the size of Scalzi's wife's strap-on.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 25, 2015 1:51 AM  

John Wright: "If I may quote that eternal font of wisdom, Monty Pythons' Flying Circus, "You don't vote for kings."

You can quote the Pythons, but you can't make them correct. Voting for kings is a normal and proper thing. Many Australians voted for a queen and her heirs and successors according to law, over a republic.

The Romanovs got their start by being voted in also. As did Boris Godunov before them. And if you'll look at the arrangements of the Russian parliament, and many other parliaments, you'll see that the king may not vote (avoiding the scandal of a king being voted down) but the least you can say is that the king took good care that his friends voted for him.

Blogger Thordaddy January 25, 2015 1:51 AM  

Markku...

I believe I have ALWAYS commented HERE using my google handle. Thanks.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 1:55 AM  

I believe I have ALWAYS commented HERE using my google handle. Thanks.

That might be true, I don't know, I'm just saying that if you now forget to log in, and then get your comment deleted, don't blame me.

Blogger SirThermite January 25, 2015 2:26 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SirThermite January 25, 2015 2:48 AM  

The third way is not believed in

@ Log

Do YOU believe the literal interpretation of 1 John 3:9 that you're touting? If so, would you claim you are born of God and therefore you cannot and do not sin anymore? These are direct questions, and per the rules of the blog you are required to answer.

I'm guessing that you do still sin. I'm also fairly certain that you lack even the minuscule amount of faith that Jesus said would be required to move a mountain into the sea. But so do I, and as far as I know, so does every Christian who has ever lived. So what exactly are you criticizing?

Blogger Log January 25, 2015 2:59 AM  

Yes, and yes.

Blogger Log January 25, 2015 3:12 AM  

I will point out that those questions were not relevant to the topic at hand - tu quoque, after all, is a rhetorical trick - but I have answered. If this conversation continues, as it has in the past, into a series of personal slights and insults against me, as opposed to addressing the principles I am speaking of, then I will choose freely whether to respond or not.

Anonymous frenchy January 25, 2015 3:21 AM  

This gets my vote for "Best Blog Sermon".

As someone else has said, "When you throw a brick into a crowd of people, and someone screams out. That's the person who got hit."

Anonymous Eric Holder's PR dept January 25, 2015 3:42 AM  

OT, remember the post about crime rates per race. Well this pic says a lot about the who counts as a white offender:

http://8ch.net/b/src/1422173178239.jpg

Anonymous VD January 25, 2015 3:49 AM  

I ask you to not allow any individual to appear to speak for "me," uncommented, from what should be an errant IP address...

No one is allowed to use another's regular ID here. If you see it, point it out. And log in before commenting, that helps us see it.

Blogger Log January 25, 2015 3:52 AM  

And what, exactly, am I criticizing? I don't know that I am criticizing, but rather pointing out the third way for those who feel inclined to try walking in it.

For example, Christ plainly taught that we should do to everyone whatever we want others to do to us, going as far as to say this was the law and the prophets - meaning, as I take it, it is the fundamental principle upon which all the law and the teachings of the holy prophets are founded; it is the whole of the law. I find it difficult to believe, though I have to concede it is possible, that being struck twice as hard, or being forced to assent to someone's declaration of possession of truth on pain of ridicule and reviling, is something any human would want done to them.

How much more courage does it take, one wonders, to smite one's enemies, to see them driven before one, and to hear the lamentation of the women, as opposed to following the teachings in Luke 6? I know the Lord's teachings - those things he delivered by his own mouth - don't gratify the ego, but they do something else. They lay a foundation whereby one's enemies may cease, eventually, to be one's enemies, and they also make it so that one is no longer an enemy to one's enemies.

That is the third way.

John 8:51
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Anonymous Peter Garstig January 25, 2015 4:12 AM  

Thtat's why I find the oddest thing in existence in our world is a Left Christian.

Blogger Shibes Meadow January 25, 2015 5:15 AM  

Peter Garstig January 25, 2015 4:12 AM: That's why I find the oddest thing in existence in our world is a Left Christian.

"The leftist Catholic is correct in discovering in the bourgeois the rich man of the parable, but is mistaken in identifying the militant proletariat with the poor of the Gospel." - Don Colacho, #717

New post up at the Shibes blog, BTW.

Blogger ScuzzaMan January 25, 2015 5:29 AM  

A couple of points:

Peasants don't vote for Kings. But if "Good King John" had refused to sign the magna carta the barons would have cut off his head and elected one of themselves as the new king.

It might not have been a ballot-box job as we know elections today, but it would have been an electioni of a king.

Regardiing the sins of the Right and not justifying them, it may be true that "we here" do not do this, but many on the Right do just that. They justify the homicidally (and suicidally) aggressive expansionary wars of the US Imperium on the basis of "we were attacked!" and "terrorism" and "militant extremists" and "national interests" and "regional stability" and "UN Security Council" and etc and etc and etc.

You always know you are being lied to when the liar gives you a laundry list of excuses. The honest man answers once and doesn't typically care if you accept the explanation or not, but the liar is compelled by their guilt to convince you.

"The wicked flee when no man pursues, but the righteous is bold as a lion"

Blogger ScuzzaMan January 25, 2015 5:34 AM  

Leftist politics (i.e. socialism and communism) are attempts to justify Christian ethics without resort to God.

Since this is impossible, leftist politics are inevitably damaging to the nation and the culture in which they are attempted.

They are also attempts to IMPOSE Christian ethics, which is another contradiction that destroys any good that might come of persuading people to accept them. Christianity, and Christian ethics, concern the choices of the individual.

"Let my people go!" ... so that they may worship me.

No system of compulsion will enter the kingdom of God, nor any who have constructed and/or operated one.

Blogger SirThermite January 25, 2015 6:16 AM  

@ Log

Tu quoque would be arguing that sin is not sinful because a sinner claims it is sinful. I've done no such thing. But if you state that Mormon converts can no longer defecate, and imply that you are a Mormon, then obviously I'm going to be curious and ask some questions, especially if the original blog post was about how both Left and Right still defecate but Leftist pretend they don't...


Anonymous Sensei January 25, 2015 6:25 AM  

We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left.

I sincerely hope this is recognized before the pendulum which is about to swing back gains too much momentum, but I fear history suggests it will not be. Unlike many here I can't look forward to what's coming, some will receive what they so richly deserve but more ignorant sheep will be caught up in the crossfire. The world has never been otherwise.

Anonymous Clay January 25, 2015 7:10 AM  

Oh, let 'm suck on this. Maybe they'll all choke:
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul

12 so that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

13 ¶ Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon themselves to invoke over those who had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.

14 (And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew and prince of the priests, who did so.)

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with, but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them and overcame them and prevailed against them so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

18 And many that believed came, confessing and declaring their deeds.

19 In the same manner many who had practiced vain arts brought their books together and burned them before everyone, and they counted the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

20 So the word of God grew mightily and prevailed.

Anonymous Clay January 25, 2015 7:22 AM  

And no....I'm not a Holy Roller, and have never been known to quote scripture on this blog.

If I offended anyone, you have my apologies.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 25, 2015 8:14 AM  

Why would anyone want to argue with a Leftist? Are you a masochist? The insane are not insane because they are misguided, they are insane because they are deluded. Trying to get the deluded to see the truth is like trying to bring a rabid dog to water!
The insane have not risen though logic, but by appeals to hatred and envy. You will not beat them with arguments, because they did not get their supports with facts but through the hatreds and envies of their underclass of the lazy, stupid and perverse.
The lazy, stupid and perverse want none of your truth, because the truth hurts them. They suck, they know they suck, they want someone to lie to them and tell them they have worth when they are worthless.
If you want to play this game, you have to know the rules. They cheat. They Lie. They steal. You can't play the game by the rules. First they slander you, then they attack you. When they attack you, you kill them. When they're dead, you win.

Anonymous Jeigh Di January 25, 2015 8:46 AM  

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I am saved"
I'm whispering "I was lost"
That is why I chose this way.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
And need someone to be my guide.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say..."I am a Christian”
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are all too visible,
But God believes I'm worth it.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain
I have my share of heartaches
Which is why I speak His name.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority.
I only know I'm loved.
- Carol Wimmer

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 25, 2015 9:30 AM  

Probably not what a lefty says but how it was a lefty was indoctrinated into his/her/its cult is more intellectually interesting.

Contra all the conservative or rightist intellectuals there are simply IMO no left intellectuals remaining on the planet or their scripts are seriously dated and dog eared (if 'Murka collapsed because of the high fructose corn syrup shortage of 2015 would Chomsky be relevant?)

Its all propaganda and rhetoric, to ask them to explain themselves in a calm rational intellectual manner is to provoke panic or the Fungi as noted.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar January 25, 2015 9:35 AM  

Please don't ruin Lovecraft by using his terms to describe Leftists. The Yuggoth are actually highly intelligent, but alien. These cretins are only alien in their laughable minds by adopting other races and cultures as their own. Xenophobia is normal, its Xenophilia that's insane.
Just call them crazy. Obscure Twentieth Century Authors are way over their pay grade.

Anonymous GK Chesterton January 25, 2015 9:47 AM  

"Typical Catholic dishonesty. You people make me sick" << Typical hellbound spawn of Martin Luther.

Anonymous paradox January 25, 2015 9:48 AM  

And we Orthodox are hellbound too? Romans... sheesh...

Anonymous Rhys January 25, 2015 10:01 AM  

Many Australians voted for a queen and her heirs and successors according to law, over a republic.

False. Australians voted to retain our current system rather than move to a new, inherently corrupt, system.

Australia continues to keep the same governing system we've had since Federation because no better system has been proposed. The Australian political system allows for the post of Governor General who is chosen to be, theoretically, independent and whose duty is threefold; ceremonial, signing laws into power (symbolic) and removing the head of the Australian nation if ever called for. It is a check against tyranny that many are loathe to part with.
In the previous referendum the model proposed shifted the balance of power further in favour of the concentrated hands of the parliament and out of the people's hands. The referendum was not a vote to become a republic, but to become a democracy with a president chosen by parliament and not the people. It was this people voted against.
Would having the president directly chosen by the people be better? Looking at America I'd be hesitant to choose that option since it has reduced politics to little more than a personality vote (though in the last ten years Australian media has started doing the same [never forget Abbot is literally the devil]).
And that is the crux of the matter. Our governing system currently works and we are reluctant to change it for something untried, regardless of how we view the royal family (and if they turn out to be kiddie fiddlers how shocked would you honestly be) we'll keep voting against proposed 'republics.'*

Republic is a word that gets tossed around that few really understand. If we have a referendum to ditch the royals in favour of a Jefferson style republic than I'll vote yes but until then I'll vote to stick with what works until it stops working.

OpenID cailcorishev January 25, 2015 10:24 AM  

Typical hellbound spawn...

The real Chesterton managed to write entire books about heretics without being a big jerkweed about it. You're sullying the name.

Anonymous GK Chesterton January 25, 2015 10:29 AM  

"The real Chesterton managed to write entire books about heretics" << Yes. He proved the "Sola Scriptura" types are devils and scum.

Blogger JDC January 25, 2015 10:37 AM  

Yes. He proved the "Sola Scriptura" types are devils and scum.

So, its only the 'sola scriptura' types that are hellbound? What about the Orthodox? What about Anglicans?

Blogger JDC January 25, 2015 10:40 AM  

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)

There G.K...you have been publicly 'woed.'

OpenID cailcorishev January 25, 2015 10:53 AM  

Yes. He proved the "Sola Scriptura" types are devils and scum.

And then he threw it in their faces and called them names, right? Oh wait, no, he won them over with wit and intelligence. I guess if you don't have those in your toolkit....

But that's all I'll say about it; probably poked the troll too long already.

Blogger automatthew January 25, 2015 11:23 AM  

Vox: "No one is allowed to use another's regular ID here. If you see it, point it out. And log in before commenting, that helps us see it."

That should go without saying, but it might be good to add it explicitly to The Rules.

Blogger automatthew January 25, 2015 11:27 AM  

Speaking of which, we already have a regular commenter using the name "GK Chesterton", one who signs into Blogger.

So you should pick a different name if you're not that guy.

Anonymous GKC January 25, 2015 11:55 AM  

" Oh wait, no, he won them over " << Won them over away from what?

Anonymous Gapeseed January 25, 2015 12:01 PM  

"Typical Catholic dishonesty. You people make me sick" << Typical hellbound spawn of Martin Luther.

The real Chesterton would know, of course, that the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is not solely reserved for Catholics.

If I may quote the Catechism: "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." If you love God with all your being and and love your neighbor with fervor, you are on the path of salvation. Your attempts to sow discord hectoring non-Catholics is most likely another dishonest and deceitful leftist attempt to troll, which in a roundabout way is the point of the post.

Anonymous Clay January 25, 2015 12:11 PM  

"paradox January 25, 2015 9:48 AM
And we Orthodox are hellbound too? Romans... sheesh.."

Oh, take a pill. Paradox. We'll save you for the last sacrificial slaughtering, and dance ball too!

You should eat a little more..

Anonymous GKC January 25, 2015 12:24 PM  

"who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized " << Does not include most heretics including Baptists, calvinists, amish, mormons, evangelicals, adventists, "bible churches" etc., i.e. most so-called American "christians" (who are really churchians) who cannot claim any direct continuous succession to the real Church. Don't believe me? Ask them. Ask Vox Day, for example, how his baptism has any connection to a bishop?

(I will note the only exceptions could be Orthodox or Anglican. But even most of them are churchians.)

"are on the path of salvation. " << Yet the path is not the conclusion, is it? The original claim was that non-Catholics are automatically saved. I pointed out this error. Of course, the anti-Catholic bigotry in this forum was exposed.

I appear to only be guilty of not pussyfooting around exposing the frauds in NRx.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 12:24 PM  

Typical hellbound spawn of Martin Luther.

To be clear, that opinion doesn't offend me, and that would be hypocritical anyway since I hold a similar one myself.

But dishonest rhetorical tactics do.

Anonymous IM2L844 January 25, 2015 12:29 PM  

We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left.

I sincerely hope this is recognized before the pendulum which is about to swing back gains too much momentum, but I fear history suggests it will not be.

You are right to be concerned about this. I fear that many well meaning, but naïve Christians will be sucked into some thinly veiled brand of anti-liberal neopaganism like Aleksandr Dugin's Fourth Political Theory. After all, MPAI.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 25, 2015 12:30 PM  

OT: Police body cams might not be the best way to show that police are racist.

Blogger Log January 25, 2015 12:36 PM  

@SirThermite,

Another example of tu quoque would be this.

1. If I used a scripture to establish a point, and
2. I myself did not abide that particular point, then
3. I would be a hypocrite and my point could rhetorically be dismissed without further analysis.

Please forgive me, but that looked to be exactly where you were going.

I'm not plugging the merits of my particular sect of Christianity over any other - yes, I am Mormon (LDS) - I am asking those who have courage among Vox's readership to try, as an experiment, taking the Lord's teachings literally and do what he said to do. See what happens.

Instead of punching back twice as hard, try persuasion, longsuffering, meekness, mildness, kindness, pure knowledge, turning the other cheek, not reviling, and so forth. You might find that you can help restore sanity to the world not by raking your enemies over the coals but by absorbing the blows and returning good for evil.

That's all. My point is encouraging all to be doers of the word, not hearers only. Be Christians by obeying the King, don't merely fly his flag, claim his colors, and deny him by flouting his law publicly.

Anonymous GK-CS January 25, 2015 12:36 PM  

As the Catholic church losses more and more influence due to among other things; scandal, the more hysterical and off-the-hook insane certain Catholics become.

Anonymous GKC January 25, 2015 12:52 PM  

"As the Catholic church losses more and more influence due to among other things; scandal, the more hysterical and off-the-hook insane certain Catholics become."

I did not write this fraud. I demand this comment be removed immediately.

Matthew 16:13-20

Anonymous GKC January 25, 2015 12:53 PM  

"Typical Catholic dishonesty."

Fraud.

Anonymous GK-CS January 25, 2015 12:57 PM  

GK-CS is not your handle GKC.

"Demand" to your hearts content.

Anonymous GK-CS January 25, 2015 12:59 PM  

BTW "GK"=GK Chesterton. CS= CS Lewis.

Anonymous Gapeseed January 25, 2015 12:59 PM  

As the Catholic church losses more and more influence due to among other things; scandal, the more hysterical and off-the-hook insane certain Catholics become.

Eh, I think he's just a troll looking to sow discord and drive a wedge between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians on this site. At the risk of using the No True Scotsman device, no true fan of G.K. Chesterton's wit and sublime intellect would misuse Church teachings to cudgel non-Catholics in such a blunt and heretical fashion.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 12:59 PM  

Your demand has been given the appropriate amount of consideration, GKC, and has been rejected.

Anonymous VD January 25, 2015 1:01 PM  

I did not write this fraud. I demand this comment be removed immediately.

You can shut the fuck up, GKC. If you don't start behaving in a more civil manner and stop bringing such disrepute on your church, I'll spam you. And you will NOT make any demands of me or I'll grant express permission to anyone who wants to post anti-Papal propaganda using your handle every time you comment.

Got it?

Anonymous VD January 25, 2015 1:03 PM  

I appear to only be guilty of not pussyfooting around exposing the frauds in NRx.

No, I pronounce you guilty of being a complete prick thus far. If you can't stop calling people names, you're not going to be commenting here much longer.

It is possible to have theological discussions without insults, you know.

Anonymous VD January 25, 2015 1:05 PM  

the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is not solely reserved for Catholics.

The current Pope appears just about ready to announce that Muslims and Jews can take communion.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 1:12 PM  

I'm kind of in a pinch here, because on the one hand, GKC is in line with my impression of Catholics, but on the other, it is indeed a possibility that he is a Protestant troll.

So, I call John C. Wright as an expert witness. If it is his professional opinion that GKC is a troll, then I will treat him as such.

Anonymous Gapeseed January 25, 2015 1:20 PM  

The current Pope appears just about ready to announce that Muslims and Jews can take communion.

Pope Francis's English is poor, so I have been holding out hope that the problem is miscommunication more than anything else, with his Italian pronouncements more in line with Church teachings. I take it that your Italian vantage affords you a view that blunts this optimism.

Anonymous Gapeseed January 25, 2015 1:32 PM  

I'm kind of in a pinch here, because on the one hand, GKC is in line with my impression of Catholics, but on the other, it is indeed a possibility that he is a Protestant troll.

Whether he is Christian by birth, I doubt the guy is Christian in practice or even a Churchian. And regarding his putative Catholicism, as a middle-age practicing Catholic who knows plenty of other Catholics (including Opus Dei), I really don't know anybody nearly as strident in attitude against non-Catholic Christians. If he is sincere, then he is a relic from some time long past. Most likely, though, he wrapped himself in a Chesterton moniker to lend himself bona fides in order to make trouble.

Anonymous GKC January 25, 2015 1:44 PM  

Gapeseed should stick to his Knights of Columbus lodge. Anyone else can find me on Twitter if you want to learn real NRx. Thus per request, I am done here.

Blogger Shibes Meadow January 25, 2015 2:17 PM  

GKC, I am so far to the Right I make Franco look like a member of MoveOn.org, and in my opinion you are poor example of a reactionary. A true reactionary abides by the ancient manners of our people, and does not display the vulgar behavior of our enemies.

As for being Catholic: I am a Trad and I know many Trads, and not one of them behaves as you do.

I call Troll.

Anonymous GKC January 25, 2015 2:33 PM  

Disqualify me as you will. NRx marches on, as does the Holy Church. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

Blogger Proud Feminist G January 25, 2015 3:28 PM  

I support gay rights like my babe Ariana Grande, love her

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 3:44 PM  

I think you did the gay thing twice in a row, Me Guerrero. Wasn't there supposed to be the Buddhist-thing in between? You might be running out of balance.

OpenID cailcorishev January 25, 2015 3:49 PM  

I'm kind of in a pinch here, because on the one hand, GKC is in line with my impression of Catholics, but on the other, it is indeed a possibility that he is a Protestant troll.

He's the very definition of a troll, regardless of his personal beliefs. The guy who comes into alt.fan.james.kirk and yells "Picard rules; Kirk drools!" is a troll by definition, even if he couldn't pick either man out of a lineup.

OpenID cailcorishev January 25, 2015 3:55 PM  

The current Pope appears just about ready to announce that Muslims and Jews can take communion.

Heh. I'd like to say he won't go that far, but....

I read today that he's surprised that his statements on family size have been misunderstood/misinterpreted. So apparently he's been asleep for the past 50 years.

I'm starting to think the guy just isn't very bright. Like really, really not-bright.

Anonymous paradox January 25, 2015 6:06 PM  

Clay, was the question address to you? No... go run along now and go play with an altar boy.

Anonymous PTR January 25, 2015 6:17 PM  

Markku January 25, 2015 1:12 PM
I'm kind of in a pinch here, because on the one hand, GKC is in line with my impression of Catholics.


How many Catholics do you actually know?

Anonymous Didas Kalos January 25, 2015 7:54 PM  

Leftists are deceived because they are in darkness and do not love the truth. Sinners on the 'right' are also deceived because they don't love the truth. Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

2 Peter 1:4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If you are a believer and are born again, you are not the same as a sinner. We are raised up together IN Christ.

Oh, and BTW, God does not have a 'mother.' He's God, and there is no other.

Blogger rumpole5 January 25, 2015 8:14 PM  

Parody and joke?

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 8:29 PM  

He's the very definition of a troll, regardless of his personal beliefs.

My original wording was "Protestant troll". If he's just an asshole, then I'm not going to censor his opinions. The same rules will apply, as apply to anyone.

But if he is preaching something where he actually believes the opposite, then THAT I will have a lot less patience for.

How many Catholics do you actually know?

None. There are very few here. 8,000 Catholics in the country, making up 0.15% in terms of percentage.

Anonymous Corvinus January 25, 2015 10:07 PM  

As for being Catholic: I am a Trad and I know many Trads, and not one of them behaves as you do.

I call Troll.


I'll second Shibes here.

I'll also add that we Trads have to put up with a lot of BS from mainstream blue-pill Catholics who think we're nuts, so I can fully see them acting in that manner. The blogger Mark Shea at Catholic and Enjoying It! is a great example of a blue-pill Catholic who ridicules Trads.

Anonymous Corvinus January 25, 2015 10:11 PM  

None. There are very few here. 8,000 Catholics in the country, making up 0.15% in terms of percentage.

I don't know if Timo Soini is a Trad, but what I do know about him, I like.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 25, 2015 10:13 PM  

Lord keep my foot from slipping, deliver me from the ill intent, please deliver from another 2013 and 2014. Defend me or allow me the chance instanding to defend myself, amen.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 25, 2015 10:15 PM  

Because I cannot bear one step further in this world, either take me home or allow me to continue my battle. Until then. amen.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 10:16 PM  

I don't think so. I checked, he has addressed the contents of his beliefs once, with one sentence: "I believe what the Church believes."

At this point, one would expect a Trad to make a distinction.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 10:21 PM  

And by "Church" he uses a word that only refers to a particular denomination. That word doesn't refer to "body of Christ", like the English one also does. Only the word seurakunta has both meanings.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 10:24 PM  

However, the distinction between Trads and the rest might be meaningless over here. When a religious community is a vanishingly small minority somewhere, they have a tendency to be hardcore.

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 10:39 PM  

The big problem here is that when anyone hears the word Catholic, I can promise that the first mental association they have is "paedofile". But the Orthodox don't have that baggage, yet are very similar in their trappings. So, everyone who is attracted to the historicity is going to think, "Ok, there's those Orthodox guys over there, and there's the guys that makes everyone go "paedophile" in their minds when they hear I'm one of them, over here. Gee whiz, Orthodox or paedophiles, Orthodox or paedophiles...?"

Anonymous Randy January 25, 2015 11:49 PM  

"As for being Catholic: I am a Trad and I know many Trads, and not one of them behaves as you do."

No shit about Trolls.

See here for Covinus calling protestants...
"heretics" "shitlibs" "filth"

voxday.blogspot.com/2014/10/sam-harris-is-still-genocidal-maniac.html?m=1

Sock puppet fuck.

Anonymous Randy January 25, 2015 11:52 PM  

Did you chane your tune or just your sock-puppet names, Corvinus??

voxday.blogspot.com/2014/10/sam-harris-is-still-genocidal-maniac.html?m=1

Anonymous Randy January 25, 2015 11:57 PM  

Corvinus October 13, 2014 4:48 PM

"Protestantism is fundamentally a shitlib enterprise."

Blogger Markku January 25, 2015 11:58 PM  

There are other exclusivist denominations here, and that behavior is nothing out of the ordinary. Not adequate evidence to call troll. At least not in the original meaning, which implies that he actually believes the opposite of what he is saying.

Anonymous Corvinus January 26, 2015 2:34 AM  

Corvinus October 13, 2014 4:48 PM

"Protestantism is fundamentally a shitlib enterprise."


Well, it is. And I don't hesitate to call out attacks on Catholicism by Protestants (aside from third-grade trolling and mouthing off, which I generally don't bother with). Markku wasn't attacking Catholicism, so that situation didn't apply here.

In addition, trying to make the case for Catholicism to Protestants -- who, after all, were for the most part raised as such from childhood -- is rather difficult these days due to the scandalous things that the so-called "Catholic" hierarchy and so-called "Pope" Francis say every single day, so I have to deal with each situation as it comes.

Gratuitous put-downs such as "you're going to hell" may likely be true, but I'm not convinced that trolling people like that works, to say the least. It lacks tact, provides no real helpful information, is rather childish, and they've most likely heard it before anyway.

Anonymous PTR January 26, 2015 2:43 AM  

Markku January 25, 2015 8:29 PM

How many Catholics do you actually know?

None. There are very few here. 8,000 Catholics in the country, making up 0.15% in terms of percentage."

So your experience of Catholics is contributors here and the pedophilia scandal? I'd call that a little bit thin for making a conclusion about what Catholics are like.

Also your original reason for being angry with GKC was misplaced. When he wrote "what (Vox) really meant was ..." he was using an English convention (at least in my part of the Anglosphere) which effectively states - no your're wrong it's this ...", like when other contributors quote a revised passage and add "there fixed it for you".


Anonymous PTR January 26, 2015 2:47 AM  

Corvinus January 26, 2015 2:34 AM
Corvinus October 13, 2014 4:48 PM

"Protestantism is fundamentally a shitlib enterprise."

Well, it is. And I don't hesitate to call out attacks on Catholicism by Protestants (aside from third-grade trolling and mouthing off, which I generally don't bother with). Markku wasn't attacking Catholicism, so that situation didn't apply here.


Except he said that he believed something similar to GKCs claim that all protestants are hell bound - only the other way around, of course. Hardly an endorsement of Catholicism.

Anonymous Corvinus January 26, 2015 2:59 AM  

Except he said that he believed something similar to GKCs claim that all protestants are hell bound - only the other way around, of course. Hardly an endorsement of Catholicism.

I saw that, but even though he was obviously peeved, it was rather gentle given the circumstances. I assumed he believed that anyway; after all, it's liberal Protestants who don't think people go to hell, even Catholics...

The most we can do is hope that he and other Protestants get a niggling doubt about the foundations of their novelty. Conversion isn't easy... you have to come to terms that you were raised from birth in the wrong religion. But it does happen.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 26, 2015 7:50 AM  

When in the area, RCC was locked when I tried enter, sometimes its open, there is daily mass.

Anonymous FrankNorman January 26, 2015 8:42 AM  

So... do Roman Catholics believe that they're the only ones going to heaven, or not?

Corvinus - are you a Sedevacantist?

Blogger John Wright January 26, 2015 9:45 AM  

"So... do Roman Catholics believe that they're the only ones going to heaven, or not? "

Not. Dante says Trajan is in Heaven, and he is a Roman Catholic.

We say that there is no salvation outside the Church, but we also say that we do not know exactly where the boundaries of the Church fall.

Indeed, as a formal and official teaching of the Church, anyone who says and teaches that no one outside the formal boundaries of the Church is saved can be excommunicated for so saying -- in which case, he had better hope he is wrong on that point.

See the Boston Heresy case: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mcnamarasblog/2009/02/leonard-feeney-and-the-boston-heresy-case.html

http://www.academia.edu/2703679/Salvation_Outside_the_Church_Leonard_Feeney_and_the_Boston_Heresy_Case

Blogger John Wright January 26, 2015 9:51 AM  

"The current Pope appears just about ready to announce that Muslims and Jews can take communion."

The newspapermen and leftist propagandists (but I repeat myself) who went to such extraordinary efforts to create this impression are even now being rewarded by the Lowerarchy by Uncle Screwtape that honest men have been brought to this opinion by their efforts.

For the record, Pope Francis says, teaches, and commands nothing in any slightest way different from what Pope Benedict did, or Pope John-Paul II, but for some reason the Press decided to praise and celebrate Francis but scorn and slander Benedict. Go figure.

Blogger John Wright January 26, 2015 10:05 AM  

"So, I call John C. Wright as an expert witness. If it is his professional opinion that GKC is a troll, then I will treat him as such."

I am not a mindreader. All I can say that I have never, not once, heard a Catholic speak this way about Protestants in such terms of hatred and spite in the ten years since I joined the Catholic Church. So I cannot say whether or not he is Catholic, but I can say two things:

First, he is not a Christian. I call upon Saint John the Evangelist as my witness for that: 1 John 2.

Second, Chesterton's book HERETICS does not mention Sola Scriptura even once. Chesterton there is gently pointing out, with wit and good humor, the limitations of the secular worldview: he smiles that the imperialism of Rudyard Kipling, the secularism of Bernard Shaw, the pessimism of HG Wells, and the too-tightlipped seriousness of Joseph McCabe.

The word has nothing to do with the controversy between Protestants and Catholics. It is a gentle condemnation from the romantic and magical Christian worldview of the unromantic, dull, and quotidian worldview of the modernists, secularists, and those who place faith in human progress.

Indeed, the word Sola Scriptura does not appear anywhere in Chesterton's book.

So, while I am not a mindreader, I am a fan of Chesterton, and I am perfectly convinced that this troll has never read the book HERETICS, not even a single word of it. When he says Chesterton criticizes Protestants in his book, the statement is utterly and outrageously false.

He may or may not be a Catholic, but he is surely a liar.
Mr. H. G. Wells

Anonymous Randy January 26, 2015 10:26 AM  

". All I can say that I have never, not once, heard a Catholic speak this way about Protestants in such terms of hatred and spite "

yet... yet...

Corvinus October 13, 2014 4:48 PM

"Protestantism is fundamentally a shitlib enterprise."

If you follow the link I posted above, you'll also see protestants described as "filth" and "heretics."

Maybe you two dudes need a talk.

OpenID cailcorishev January 26, 2015 10:28 AM  

We say that there is no salvation outside the Church, but we also say that we do not know exactly where the boundaries of the Church fall.

Exactly. EENS is Catholic doctrine; it's not something some traditionalist group dreamed up. But theologians have debated for centuries exactly what "outside the Church" means. Traditionally, membership in the Body of Christ was assumed to require baptism, but the Church recognizes any Trinitarian baptism (even non-Catholics can validly baptize, according to Church doctrine), and there was also baptism of desire, which (again traditionally) meant someone who truly wanted to be baptized but died before it could happen. Modernists interpret baptism of desire to include practically everyone except serial killers, on the theory that a goatherd in Tibet who's basically a decent sort surely would be baptized if he'd ever had the chance or heard of Jesus in the first place. (That might make you wonder why Jesus bothered to tell the Apostles to baptize all nations, but hey...)

Anyway, it's clear from centuries of teaching that the line isn't where the modernists put it; but exactly where it is, especially for individuals, no man can say for certain.

OpenID cailcorishev January 26, 2015 10:50 AM  

For the record, Pope Francis says, teaches, and commands nothing in any slightest way different from what Pope Benedict did, or Pope John-Paul II

That's a little optimistic. It's true that he says many orthodox things which are ignored by the media, and that his words are often twisted to seem to support leftist notions. But it's also true that he's much more sloppy about what he says than Benedict was, which gives them many more opportunities to do so. Just yesterday I read that he's "surprised" how his statement about families not having to breed like rabbits was misinterpreted. Surprised, really, still? He didn't see how that would be viewed and used? I could, the instant I saw the quote, and I'll bet you could too. No, it wasn't technically incorrect, but it was a terrible thing to say in the current climate and a terrible way to say it, and he should have known better.

The media did try to twist Benedict's words the same way, as shown when he theorized about how a prostitute with AIDS would be sinning less by using a condom than by giving people a deadly disease, and the media ran with "Pope approves condoms!" He just rarely gave them those opportunities.

A good number of bishops and priests now spend time doing damage control, explaining that the pope isn't about to change Church doctrine on homogamy/birth control/priestesses/whatever, despite what the media is saying he said. That's not a coincidence, and it is a change from the previous papacy.

Anonymous Corvinus January 26, 2015 11:27 AM  

@Randy
Well, we are supposed to be imitators of Jesus Christ. And there are times He was gracious to people, and there are others where He called people names such as "whited sepulchres filled with dead men's bones and all filthiness". So if I called Protestants "filth" and "heretics"... well, they are heretics, by definition. And if they're obstinate about it, making fun of Catholicism, and refusing to consider reasoned arguments -- and I said "reasoned arguments", not "insulting trolling" -- they're filth too, and should stop being filth.

It depends upon the context. It's not really that hard to figure out, unless you're a sperg.

Anonymous Randy January 26, 2015 11:49 AM  

Don't talk to me "Corvinus" ... (or whatever name you are using right now).

You can talk to Wright and Cailcorishev who claim Trolls like you don't exist.

". All I can say that I have never, not once, heard a Catholic speak this way about Protestants in such terms of hatred and spite "

Yet here you are...

Blogger Markku January 26, 2015 11:49 AM  

I am not a mindreader.

Well, the fact of the matter isn't really important, I just don't want anyone saying I deliberately let an "obvious" protestant troll give Catholics a bad name.

Blogger Markku January 26, 2015 11:53 AM  

well, they are heretics, by definition

"Heretic", as opposed to heterodox, not only means that the person believes something other than you believe to be orthodox, but also that the difference is great enough that they will go to hell. THAT doesn't follow from the definition unless you are begging the question.

Anonymous Corvinus January 26, 2015 12:26 PM  

@Randy
Quit sperging all over the thread. If you cannot understand context, or the proper definition of "hatred", or legitimate spite (as in response to Protestant idiocy). I cannot help you.

Anonymous Randy January 26, 2015 12:34 PM  

I am done talking about this Corvinus.

I'd be careful if I were you... trying to stir shit up like this.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 26, 2015 12:39 PM  

But it's also true that he's much more sloppy about what he says than Benedict was, which gives them many more opportunities to do so. Just yesterday I read that he's "surprised" how his statement about families not having to breed like rabbits was misinterpreted. Surprised, really, still? He didn't see how that would be viewed and used? I could, the instant I saw the quote, and I'll bet you could too.

I saw. But I also see how much the local cultural landscape can shape the understanding of rhetoric. Benedict had a prime spot from which he could view the reshaping of the post-modern rhetorical battlefield. Francis was oceans away, on a field with drastically different terrain.

I don't think Francis has had the chance to develop a good understanding of the terrain change. He is undergoing a baptism by fire, as far as I can tell. If he can analyze and adapt, he will do well, but he is struggling to identify the problem right now.

This Protestant hopes the Pope comes through his struggle and realizes the value of rhetorical clarity. Clarity is both a sword and a shield when wielded with humility. He seems to have a sufficient understanding of the power of humility -- at least to my eyes.

Pope Francis has my prayers and good wishes. May he not be swayed by evil whispers.

Blogger John Wright January 26, 2015 1:55 PM  

@"yet... yet..."

You are quoting the very man, Randy, whom I say I have never heard anyone else talk like, not even remotely. When I call Protestants 'heretics' (which, technically speaking, they are, as per the finding of the Council of Trent) I get hushed and scolded by my fellow Catholics.

I have met more Catholics who believe in Abortion than I have met Catholics who believe that Protestants are all horrible people rather than our fellow brothers in Christ. There has never before been such an ecumenical spirit in the Church. It is really quite extraordinary.

Blogger John Wright January 26, 2015 2:05 PM  

@ Randy "You can talk to Wright and Cailcorishev who claim Trolls like you don't exist."

I call bullshit. That is not what I said.

I said that I have never talked to, and I mean in real life, among my Catholic friends, while we are locking up Bibles and worshipping statues, heard anyone talk like this.

On the Internet you can find anything. I once came across a website proving that the sun was hollow.

However, none of the Catholic websites I have ever visited EVER contained language like what this troll uses. None. Not one. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I am not saying they do not exist. I am saying I, me, myself, this person here, have never seen them. Make of that what you will.

Makku called on me as an expert witness, but he did not establish whether I have expert credentials.

I can tell you what the official teaching of the Church is, and it contradicts what trollboy is saying.

Maybe he is a Catholic, maybe not. Our Church has her share of annoying loudmouths and jackasses, just like all churches. This guy speaks for no one but himself.

I say it again: I have never heard any other Catholic speak like him, in such terms of venom against Protestants. So there is not a huge wing of the Church who agrees with him.

The chance that he is an anticatholic mocking up what he pretends to be our attitude is better than even money, I'd say.

So, if your argument is "This troll must be a Catholic because the statement that no Catholics talk this way is false because this troll talks this way" is a formal logical error, a circular argument. It is, in fact, the reverse fallacy from the 'No true Scotsman' fallacy.

Anonymous Corvinus January 26, 2015 2:16 PM  

Oh I see now... apparently, some people (like Randy here) think I and GKC are the same person. Hence his suggestions I'm a troll changing my name.

I'll just assure everyone that I have never used any handle here other than this one.

Anonymous Randy January 26, 2015 2:20 PM  

I am confused, Mr. Wright. Are you saying Corvinus is a Troll, or Corvinus is same person as "GKC" above, or both?

Why not address Corvinus directly over his words rather than attacking me for pointing out the existence of Corvinus's words?

"The chance that he is an anticatholic mocking up what he pretends to be our attitude is better than even money, I'd say. "

Ask him yourself. He was active on this thread less than 3 hours ago. As I said, I am done speaking to that turd.

(and by the way, I'm Catholic).

Anonymous FrankNorman January 26, 2015 5:32 PM  

In an attempt to return to the proper topic...

One of the reasons why Leftists are so averse to ever admitting wrongdoing, I think, is that theirs is a world without forgiveness or mercy.

As Christians we know the words of Jesus: "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. and if he repents, forgive him."
And the words of the Apostle Paul: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord."

The Leftist rejects the Good News. In his worldview, the wages of sin is death, full stop. Any transgression against the laws of the Warren means expulsion. Hence the rejection of any moral standard that might show him to be in the wrong. The Rabbit is never in the wrong - being wrong would mean death! To accuse him of wrongdoing is an attempt to kill him, and only a horrible, evil person would want to do that!
Even when wrong exists, no Rabbit personally will admit blame. It's those other people. It's Society. It's the economic structures.
Collectivist morality is a means, for the Rabbit, of escaping personal responsibility, of shifting all the blame onto others - who of course therefore deserve to die!

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 26, 2015 8:01 PM  

We have a prominent RCC college here. One ash wednesday I was shopping and this student took her ashes walked up to me and said she led to share her ashes with me.

Later on that year I ran out of money at walmart (of all awful places) so I placed items back, again another student from that college paid the additional 45 in goods. I was buying basic stuff and put back 2 blankets but was sent home with them. Students all wear the insignia badgey thing.

On the other hand, when I tried to work for billy graham's corp hq in charlotte, I was denied employment 5 times. the RCC college here denied me employment at least 10 times. Americants dont want their own pple to have anything like AN INCOME. So in my illness I pity the college student in debt with degrees that will be burned one day,

I am promising, perhaps one day the youngest generation among us will shred their resumes, burn the degrees and refuse to pay inflated edu costs.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 26, 2015 8:06 PM  

Marred and distorted aptly describes the situation, the exterior is rational but their interior is the same as mine, we need Jesus Christ no more atheism, no more disorder.

Anonymous Cheech And Chong Found God January 26, 2015 9:01 PM  

“We are only more sane because we do not run from our sins, we do not hide from them, and we know better than to try to justify them.”

Conservatives fall into the same reasoning trap as liberals—others, not them, are not as “crazy”; we, not them, are more likely to be moral; us, not others, look inwardly at our conduct and make adjustments accordingly.

And leave it Corvinus to defile his own Christian faith by willingly engaging in anti-godly masculinity when he perpetually comments on such sites as Return of Kings and openly supports their hedonistic “virtues”.

Anonymous scoobius dubious January 28, 2015 10:57 AM  

"We sinners of the Right are no better than the sinners of the Left."

I apologize in advance for not having read this thread yet, it sounds like it's interesting. I just wanted to jump in on the above quote b/c I probably have something to say about it that isn't normally repped by the usual suspects.

I'm a mystic, but not in the retarded way. I can tell you that "the Left" is full of shit and deservedly so, but my sense is that "the Right" is split into several different parts, one of which is actually "Leftist" (whether they realize it or not), one of which is essentially meaningless (looking at YOU, Rand Paul/Boehner/Marco Rubio Cruz or whatever your fucking name is), one of which is interesting but has only taken baby-steps in defining itself, and one of which is fascinating but pretty much untenable in the real world (looking at YOU, Jim Donald).

Which is a long way of saying that while "the Left" is kind of an identifiable property, I'm really not sure I can say with any kind of confidence what "the Right" is. In my view "the Right" is just this sort of amorphous term for everybody who rejects "the Left", but they don't necessarily have their own coherence beyond that point.

Put it this way: Steve Sailer is kinda-sorta right. Paul Kersey is on to something, bless his pointed little head, but I'm not sure exactly what. Larry Auster (God rest his soul) was kinda-sorta right, a lot of the time but not always. Kievsky/MW is (or was; come back, dude!) right a lot of the time. The guy over at OD is -- um, well, interesting, I'll say that much. Roissy (or whatever the hell he calls himself these days) is.... well, I'd say problematic. There are differences. But yet we can all agree that Ta-nehisi Coates is kind of a retarded moron.

The point being that I'm not even sure at all what "the Right" is, except that it's not "the Left". And also that it's not, and can't be, the GOP or the Tea Party. Anybody got a more precise idea?

OpenID cailcorishev January 28, 2015 11:54 AM  

The point being that I'm not even sure at all what "the Right" is, except that it's not "the Left".

That's my conclusion: you have the Left, and then you have those opposed to the Left, which don't form any sort of coherent group. There is such a thing as right-wing in political terms going back to the French Revolution, where the Right was those supporting aristocracy and monarchy, but again, that was mostly a reaction. Nowadays, with the Left being dominant, everyone opposed to them gets called a right-winger, lumping together Randians with monarchists, atheist gamers with Amish farmers.

It makes sense when you remember that the goal of the Left is to destroy everything good. So different people will oppose it for different reasons, based on what "good" they want to defend. One guy's "good" is the family, another's is quality stories and games, another's is religious tradition. They may not like each other or respect each other's values (which is why there's never a "right-wing movement" to rival the left's), but they do have a common cause of not wanting to see everything good destroyed.

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