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Tuesday, February 17, 2015

McRapey supports Sad Puppies!

Or rather, Brad's right to put forth a list of recommended nominees as he has done. What Scalzi is actually trying to do is stake out a position in the middle ground in response to the post to which I linked yesterday while covering his ample backside in a deluge of rhetoric, but in the end, he's admitting that what Larry and Brad have done is every bit as legal as his own shenanigans in parleying a few dubious Best Fan Writer nominations into an eventual Best Novel win were.
First, go read this. This is only one dude, to be clear, but his defensive, angry and utterly terrified lament is part and parcel with a chunk of science fiction and fantasy fandom and authors who want to position themselves as a last redoubt against… well, something, anyway. It essentially boils down to “The wrong people are in control of things! We must take it back! Attaaaaaaaack!” It’s almost endearing in its foot-stompy-ness; I’d love to give this fellow a hug and tell him everything will be all right, but I’m sure that would be an affront to his concept of What Is Allowed, so I won’t.

Instead let me make a few comments about the argument, such as it is. Much of this stuff I addressed last year when a similar kvetch appeared, but let me add some more notes to the pile.
Rhetorical blather to assuage the rabbits. Notice how the Chief Rabbit really hammers the "scared" theme. It's the one thing rabbits can understand. "We not afraid! No! HIM afraid! Him not-rabbit. Him LONELY!"
1. The fellow above asserts that fans of his particular ilk must “take back” conventions and awards from all the awful, nasty people who currently infest them, as if this requires some great, heroic effort. In fact “taking back” a convention goes a little something like this:

Scene: CONVENTION REGISTRATION. ANGRY DUDE goes up to CON STAFFER at the registration desk.

Angry Dude: I AM HERE TO TAKE BACK THIS CONVENTION AND THE CULTURE THAT SO DESPERATELY CRIES OUT FOR MY INTERVENTION

Con Staffer: Okay, that’ll be $50 for the convention membership.

(Angry Dude pays his money)

Con Staffer: Great, here’s your program and badge. Have a great con!

Angry Dude: …

I mean, everyone gets this, right? That conventions, generally speaking, are open to anyone who pays to attend? That the convention will be delighted to take your money? And that so long as one does not go out of one’s way to be a complete assbag to other convention goers, the convention staff or the hotel employees, one will be completely welcome as part of the convention membership? That being the case, it’s difficult to see why conventions need to be “taken back” — they were never actually taken away.

But the conventions are run by awful, nasty people! Well, no, the small local conventions (and some of the midsized ones, like Worldcon) are run by volunteers, i.e., people willing to show up on a regular basis and do the work of running a convention, in participation with others. These volunteers, at least in my experience, which at this point is considerable, are not awful, nasty people — they’re regular folks who enjoy putting on a convention. The thing is, it’s work; people who are into conrunning to make, say, a political statement, won’t last long, because their political points are swamped by practical considerations like, oh, arguing with a hotel about room blocks and whether or not any other groups will be taking up meeting rooms.

(Larger cons, like Comic-cons, are increasingly run by professional organizations, which are another kettle of fish — but even at that level there are volunteers, and they are also not awful, nasty people. They’re people who like participating.)

But the participants are awful, nasty people with agendas! That “problem” is solved by going to the convention programming people and both volunteering to be on panels and offering suggestions for programming topics. Hard as it may be to believe, programming staffers actually do want a range of topics that will appeal to a diverse audience, so that everyone who attends has something they’d be interested in. Try it!

Speaking as someone who once was in charge of a small convention open to the public, i.e., the Nebula Awards Weekend (I would note I was only nominally in charge — in fact the convention was run and staffed by super-competent volunteers), my position to anyone who wanted to come and experience our convention was: Awesome! See you there. Because why wouldn’t it be?

Again, science fiction and fantasy conventions can’t be “taken back” — they were, and are, open to everyone. I understand the “take back” rhetoric appeals to the “Aaaaugh! Our way of life is under attack” crowd, but the separation between the rhetoric and reality of things is pretty wide. Anyone who really believes conventions will be shocked and dismayed to get more paying members and attendees fundamentally does not grasp how conventions, you know, actually work.
(shakes head, blinks, wakes up) Yikes, that was tedious. Remember, professional writer there, don't try this at home. Anyhow, it is good to know that WorldCon is pleased with all the new supporting members Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies have been bringing into the fold. Now, what is all the bitching and crying about?


2. Likewise, the “taking back” of awards, which in this case is understood to mean the Hugo Awards almost exclusively — I don’t often hear of anyone complaining that, say, the Prometheus Award has been hijacked by awful, nasty people, despite the fact that this most libertarian of all science fiction and fantasy awards is regularly won by people who are not even remotely libertarian; shit, Cory Doctorow’s won it three times and he’s as pinko as they come.

But yet again, you can’t “take back” the Hugos because they were never taken away. If you pay your membership fee to the Worldcon, you can nominate for the award and vote for which works and people you want to see recognized. All it takes is money and an interest; if you follow the rules for nominating and voting, then everything is fine and dandy. Thus voting for the Hugo is neither complicated, nor a revolutionary act.

Bear in mind that the Hugo voting set-up is fairly robust; the preferential ballot means it’s difficult for something that’s been nominated for reasons other than actual admiration of the work (including to stick a thumb into the eyes of people you don’t like) to then walk away with an award. People have tested this principle over the years; they tended to come away from the process with their work listed below “no award.” Which is as it should be. This also makes the Hugos hard to “take back.” It doesn’t matter how well a work (or its author) conforms to one’s political inclinations; if the work itself simply isn’t that good, the award will go to a different nominee that is better, at least in the minds of the majority of those who are voting.

The fellow above says if his little partisan group can’t “take back” the awards, then they should destroy them. Well, certainly there is a way to do that, and indeed here’s the only way to do that: by nominating, and then somehow forcing a win by, works that are manifestly sub-par, simply to make a political (or whatever) point. This is the suicide bomber approach: You’re willing to go up in flames as long as you get to do a bit of collateral damage as you go. The problem with this approach is that, one, it shows that you’re actually just an asshole, and two, it doesn’t actively improve the position of your little partisan group, vis a vis recognition other than the very limited “oh, those are the childish foot-stompers who had a temper tantrum over the Hugos.” Which is a dubious distinction.

With that said: Providing reading lists of excellent works with a particular social or political slant? Sure, why not? Speaking as someone who has been both a nominee and a winner of various genre awards, I am utterly unafraid of the competition for eyeballs and votes — which is why, moons ago, I created the modern version of the Hugo Voter’s Packet, so that there would be a better chance of voters making an informed choice. Speaking as someone who nominates and votes for awards, I’m happy to be pointed in the direction of works I might not otherwise have known about. So this is all good, in my view. And should a worthy work by someone whose personal politics are not mine win a Hugo? Groovy by me. It’s happened before. It’s likely to happen again. I may have even nominated or voted for the work.

But to repeat: None of this contitutes “taking back” anything — it merely means you are participating in a process that was always open to you. And, I don’t know. Do you want a participation medal or something? A pat on the head? It seems to me that most of the people nominating and voting for the Hugos are doing it with a minimum of fuss. If it makes you feel important by making a big deal out of doing a thing you’ve always been able to do — and that anyone with an interest and $50 has been able to do — then shine on, you crazy diamonds. But don’t be surprised if no one else is really that impressed. Seriously: join the club, we’ve been doing this for a while now.
First of all, no one runs around claiming the Prometheus Award is the epitome of excellence in science fiction. Unlike the Hugo, it is supposed to be an openly political award. As for shining, we're shining on like Collective Soul. If anyone has a problem with that, hey, now you can take it up with McRapey. He's up and he's down with the Puppies. Uh wa ah ah ah....
3. Also a bit of paranoid fantasy: The idea that because the wrong people are somehow in charge of publishing and the avenues of distribution, this is keeping authors (and fans, I suppose) of a certain political inclination down. This has always been a bit of a confusing point to me — how this little partisan group can both claim to be victimized by the publishing machine and yet still crow incessantly about the bestsellers in their midst. Pick a narrative, dudes, internal consistency is a thing.

Better yet, clue into reality, which is: The marketplace is diverse and can (and does!) support all sorts of flavors of science fiction and fantasy. In this (actually real) narrative, authors of all political and social stripes are bestsellers, because they are addressing slightly different (and possibly overlapping) audience sets. Likewise, there are authors of all politicial and social stripes who sell less well, or not at all. Because in the real world, the politics and social positions of an author don’t correlate to units sold.

With the exception of publishing houses that specifically have a political/cultural slant baked into their mission statements, publishing houses are pretty damn agnostic about the politics of their authors. The same publishing house that publishes me publishes John C. Wright; the same publishing house that publishes John Ringo publishes Eric Flint. What do publishing houses like? Authors who sell. Because selling is the name of the game.

Here’s a true fact for you: When I turn in The End of All Things, I will be out of contract with Tor Books; I owe them no more books at this point. What do you think would happen if I walked over to Baen Books and said, hey, I wanna work with you? Here’s what would happen: The sound of a flurry of contract pages being shipped overnight to my agent. And do you know what would happen if John Ringo went out of contract with Baen and decided to take a walk to Tor? The same damn noise. And in both cases, who would argue, financially, with the publishers’ actions? John Ringo would make a nice chunk of change for Tor; I’m pretty sure I could do the same for Baen. Don’t kid yourself; this is not an ideologically pure business we’re in.

(And yes, in fact, I would entertain an offer from Baen, if it came. It would need many zeros in it, mind you. But that would be the case with any publisher at this point.)

Likewise, I don’t care how supposedly ideologically in sync you are with your publisher; if you’re not selling, sooner or later, out you go. These are businesses, not charities.

But let’s say, just for shits and giggles, that one ideologically pure faction somehow seized control of all the traditional means of publishing science fiction and fantasy, freezing out everyone they deemed impure. What then? One, some other traditional publisher, not previously into science fiction, would see all the money left on the table and start up a science fiction line to address the unsated audience. Two, you would see the emergence of at least a couple of smaller publishing houses to fill the market. Three, some of the more successful writers who were frozen out, the ones with established fan bases, could very easily set up shop on their own and self-publish, either permanently or until the traditional publishing situation got itself sorted out.

All of which is to say: Yeah, the paranoid fantasy of awful, nasty people controlling the genre is just that: Paranoid fantasy. Now, I understand that if you’re an author of a certain politicial stripe who is not selling well, or a fan who doesn’t like the types of science fiction and fantasy that other people who are not you seem to like, this paranoid fantasy has its appeal, especially if you’re feeling beset politically/socially in other areas of your life as well. And that’s too bad for you, and maybe you’d like a hearty fist-bump and an assurance that all will be well. But it doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day, no matter who you are, there will always be the sort of science fiction and fantasy you like available to you. Because — no offense — you are not unique. What you like is probably liked by other people, too. There are enough of you to make a market. That market will be addressed.

Again, I am genuinely flummoxed why so many people who are ostensibly so in love with the concept of free markets appear to have a genuinely difficult time with this. It’s not all illuminati, people. It never was.

Unlike McRapey and company, we can do the math. We know that science fiction sales and advances have been declining precipitously. We know perfectly well that the gatekeepers of traditional publishing are SJWs, who are publishing SJW fiction that doesn't sell as much new as the classic racist/sexist/homophobic Campbellian stuff that the likes of Charles Stross decry STILL sells today.
4. And this is why, fundamentally, the whole “take back the genre” bit is just complete nonsense. It can never be “taken back,” it will never be “taken back,” and it’s doubtful there was ever a “back” to go to. The genre product market is resistant to ideological culling, and the social fabric of science fiction fandom is designed at its root to accomodate rather than exclude. No one can exclude anyone else from science fiction and fantasy fandom when the entrance requirement is, literally, an interest in the genre, or some particular aspect of it. You can’t exclude people from conventions that require only a membership fee to attend. Even SFWA has opened up to self-publishing professional authors now, because it recognized that the professional market has changed. To suggest that the genre contract to fit the demands of any one segment of it doesn’t make sense, commercially or socially. It won’t be done. It would be foolish to do so.

The most this little partisan group (or those who identify with it) can do is assert that they are the true fans of the genre, not anyone else. To which the best and most correct response is: Whatever, dude. Shout it all you like. But you’re wrong, and at the end of the day, you’re not even a side of the genre, you’re just a part. And either you’re participating with everyone else in what the genre is today, or you’re off to the side wailing like a toddler who has been told he can’t have a lollipop. If you want to participate, come on in. If you think you’re going to swamp the conversation, you’re likely in for a surprise. But if you want to be part of it, then be a part of it. The secret is, you already are, and always have been.

If you don’t want to participate, well. Wail for your lolly all you like, then, if it makes you happy. The rest of us can get along without you just fine.
Who is wailing? Not us. We're participating like a boss. We're participating and we're perpetrating even more heavily than we were last year, when our participation was greeted with shrieks and protests and tears and outrage. But it's good to know that Johnny is welcoming us with such open arms. Because we're here. So if you're registered to nominate, don't forget to review Rabid Puppies before you do so.

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73 Comments:

Anonymous Noah B. February 17, 2015 3:46 PM  

"In that case, what is all the bitching and crying about?"

Bitches gonna bitch. BTW, is there a significant chance of your recommendations changing from this point, and if not, is there any other reason to wait to deliver our nominations?

Blogger Joshua_D February 17, 2015 3:47 PM  

"It’s almost endearing in its foot-stompy-ness;" I read that and I want to punch him in the face. "I’d love to give this fellow a hug", and then I want to kick him in the balls ... if he has any.

Blogger Vox February 17, 2015 3:49 PM  

BTW, is there a significant chance of your recommendations changing from this point, and if not, is there any other reason to wait to deliver our nominations?

Nope, go ahead. And you can change them at any time, so don't worry about it. Go, thou, and perpetrate like a boss.

Anonymous MrGreenMan February 17, 2015 3:50 PM  

Just a minor thing, but something I cannot stand about the SJW lexicon:

What is it with words like "assbag"?

We've had the whole range of them: -hat, -canoe, -bag.

They all use them. It's one of their in-group signifiers. It's like they took the 80s preoccupation with "butthead" and think they have to somehow top it.

I remember hearing from a guy out of the Navy who had assembled the warheads in the presence of a screaming admiral as part of his weekly drill, and so had conditioned his entire life around order and routine, many times that profanity, especially inventive profanity, is just a tell for a weak argument and a disorderly mind. So I see repeated all the time.

Blogger JCclimber February 17, 2015 4:01 PM  

I'll say this for McRapey, he can at least write, unlike some of the vibrancy and other SJWs out there.

Granted, his writing is chock full of snark and mischaracterizations, but not bad.

Here is the biggest problem of all with his piece. Facts. Not a single fact cited about how Sci Fi and Fantasy are selling well, and improving sales of books. Nor how the traditional stronghold of science fiction - young males, is still a huge portion of the buying audience.

And why is his article light on facts and heavy on rhetoric, snark, and name calling? Because the facts are not on his side. He even "missed" the opportunity to brag about how well the sales of his latest book are going. I wonder why?

Blogger Student in Blue February 17, 2015 4:08 PM  

He's up and he's down with the Puppies. Uh wa ah ah ah....

I have the largest grimace on my face right now, and shaking my head with narrowed eyes.

Blogger AmyJ February 17, 2015 4:19 PM  

All his blather about inclusiveness and how no one is excluded...I wonder how he reconciled that with his whole "I won't renew my membership if VD isn't kicked out" temper tantrum?

Anonymous Susan February 17, 2015 4:19 PM  

Reading Scalzi stuff anymore, I think of him more as a McSissy. His blog writing has not only not improved over the years, but there are middle school girls out there who could write tougher responses than he is doing now.
It's like witnessing a bunch of tween girls sitting in the lunchroom talking.
What's up with the Indian(feather not dot) dialog today? Good post.

Blogger Krul February 17, 2015 4:21 PM  

JCclimber - Here is the biggest problem of all with his piece. Facts.

Here is the second biggest. Verbosity.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 17, 2015 4:28 PM  

The most this little partisan group (or those who identify with it) can do is assert that they are the true fans of the genre, not anyone else.

Correct.

Look at the sales numbers. They don't even buy their own garbage. Not that I blame them. Its awful. They certainly don't buy or produce Science Fiction, just SyFy. I was in B&N today, the shelves were packed with unsold Steam Punk crap. Steam Punk is for goths that have discovered brown.

The only stuff that seems to move at all is marked Doctor Who or Star Wars.

Anonymous Earl February 17, 2015 4:29 PM  

It appears that Fiver has seen the bulldozers coming and is taking steps to move the warren.

Anonymous jack February 17, 2015 4:32 PM  

I don't think I can go any longer on popcorn and bourbon than I am now; sans a lottery win. The really sad thing is I may give out of money for popcorn before all this is over. [my brother might be good for a loan....]

Blogger Student in Blue February 17, 2015 4:34 PM  

@Susan
What's up with the Indian(feather not dot) dialog today? Good post.
At best guess, I would say he's down with the sickness.

Blogger Student in Blue February 17, 2015 4:36 PM  

It's probably left him a little disturbed.

Blogger Krul February 17, 2015 4:37 PM  

Student in Blue - I would say he's down with the sickness.

Smallpox?

Blogger Student in Blue February 17, 2015 4:44 PM  

@Krul
With Voxemort, you think any pox he uses are small?

Anonymous NorthernHamlet February 17, 2015 4:49 PM  

If you want to participate, come on in. [...] But if you want to be part of it, then be a part of it. The secret is, you already are, and always have been.

All that delegitimizing and snark aside, is this the "apology" phase of the fight?

"Dude, stop beating me up already, I give up, we are always friends! I'm sorry! "

Blogger JartStar February 17, 2015 4:54 PM  

Scalzi is calming the warren down in this post, but more importantly positioning himself in a way to say the door was always open and the Blue Sci-fi crowd was always welcome. This is a significant change compared to the open hostility he showed in the past. Look how he's now trying to make public overtures to the Baen crowd. Who knows what has gone on behind closed doors with this issue?

I think he's starting to capitulate under the pressure, but he's still trying to play both sides.

Anonymous Apollo February 17, 2015 5:00 PM  

Ugh, I couldn't make it through all that drivel. How many times does he feel he needs to repeat that "taking back" point before people absorb it?

To me, the point of sad puppies seems simple, to raise awareness of and combat the genre-damaging use of science fiction literature as a propaganda tool by lefitists, by promoting work that is written to entertain. Conferences and awards and whatever are not the goal, but just a means to this end. This seems like Scalzi squirting squid ink all over everything in order to distract from this simple premise.

Also, I don't know if its just me, but is anyone else just... irritated... by reading Scalzis passive aggressive meandering nonsense? He comes off like a bitchy teenage girl at a slumber party. Why exactly do so many people like his writing?

Blogger Vox February 17, 2015 5:05 PM  

This seems like Scalzi squirting squid ink all over everything in order to distract from this simple premise.

That is exactly what it is. He knows we are destroying his base, so he's trying to reposition while retaining leadership of the warren. His next step is to try to make friends with Larry, John, and Brad while trying to divide them from those he knows will never accept him.

Meanwhile, he's trying to leap from Tor, which has taken him as far as it can, to a mainstream publisher.

Blogger JartStar February 17, 2015 5:05 PM  

Why exactly do so many people like his writing?

Because they relate to him and his personality. He's something of a hero to the chubby, sci-fi, Star Trek, non-dating crowd as he looks like them, talks like them, loves Star Trek and geek culture, but is financially successful and has a wife.

Anonymous tiredofitall February 17, 2015 5:20 PM  

"Meanwhile, he's trying to leap from Tor" - VD

As long as he does it from the top floor, and takes the toad of tor and her "male" concubine with him, I'm all for it.

Blogger grendel February 17, 2015 5:22 PM  

He's admitting he didn't sell any books and Tor is going to let him go. Nobody gets fired for being too awesome. Larry Correia still has about a dozen books on contract.

Blogger grendel February 17, 2015 5:26 PM  

"Meanwhile, he's trying to leap from Tor, which has taken him as far as it can, to a mainstream publisher."

Really? Is he too big for Tor? I interpreted it the opposite way.

Anonymous Fran February 17, 2015 5:28 PM  

I really got to stop using the word "Dude".

Blogger Giraffe February 17, 2015 5:46 PM  

What then? One, some other traditional publisher, not previously into science fiction, would see all the money left on the table and start up a science fiction line to address the unsated audience.

Would they name it Castalia House, John?

Anonymous zen0 February 17, 2015 5:50 PM  

@ Apollo:

He comes off like a bitchy teenage girl at a slumber party.

He calls his blog "Whatever". That's VALSPEAK

the word " What.....Ever!" occurs shortly after the 1 minute mark
Maybe his wife is a Valley girl?

Anonymous zen0 February 17, 2015 5:52 PM  

> I really got to stop using the word "Dude".

What.Everrr.

Blogger JCclimber February 17, 2015 6:02 PM  

"(And yes, in fact, I would entertain an offer from Baen, if it came. It would need many zeros in it, mind you. But that would be the case with any publisher at this point.)"

"Two, you would see the emergence of at least a couple of smaller publishing houses to fill the market. Three, some of the more successful writers who were frozen out, the ones with established fan bases, could very easily set up shop on their own and self-publish, either permanently or until the traditional publishing situation got itself sorted out."

I just realized, Scalzi is making a pitch to Castalia House! Does he realize that his third option is already in play? And is this his "flag planting" so that in a few years he can say that he predicted the demise of the traditional publishing model? Because I see the trend, and the trend isn't too bright for the future of the traditional publishers.

For decades now, I have seen mostly crap in the big chain bookstores in the Science Fiction section. Also, how many of us remember when they used to keep the Science Fiction and Fantasy sections separate? I remember my irritation the first time I noticed a bunch of fantasy books mixed in with the Sci Fi. And I liked both sections, but they are not the same thing at all.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 17, 2015 6:09 PM  

Meanwhile, he's trying to leap from Tor, which has taken him as far as it can, to a mainstream publisher.

I'd thought that myself, when I saw that he slid from Heinlein pastiche to Crichton pastiche.

How long until he suddenly comes out against Global Warming, I do wonder?

Anonymous Apollo February 17, 2015 6:24 PM  

That is exactly what it is. He knows we are destroying his base, so he's trying to reposition while retaining leadership of the warren.

Well, the passive aggressive snarky misrepresentation of the concerns of the opposition can only help in that regard....

Because they relate to him and his personality. He's something of a hero to the chubby, sci-fi, Star Trek, non-dating crowd as he looks like them, talks like them, loves Star Trek and geek culture, but is financially successful and has a wife.

How sad is your community when people like that are your hero?

He calls his blog "Whatever". That's VALSPEAK

the word " What.....Ever!" occurs shortly after the 1 minute mark
Maybe his wife is a Valley girl?


Yes, good example.

Blogger Feather Blade February 17, 2015 6:34 PM  

Pick a narrative, dudes, internal consistency is a thing.

This coming from an SJW is just precious. The "superior minority oppressed by inferior majority" is their schtick!

Blogger Feather Blade February 17, 2015 6:35 PM  

Also, it's good to see that he has an excellent grasp of what's going on... he's just kind of misidentified which character is doing what part.

OpenID everybodyhatesscott February 17, 2015 6:44 PM  

I don't know if you've expounded on this before but
1. what's with the declaring anybody who disagrees with them as "angry" The amount of times I've been called angry when "amused" is a more proper response amuses me.
2. The excessive explanations for things that don't require excessive explanations. Why do they always do this?

Anonymous VD February 17, 2015 7:05 PM  

1. what's with the declaring anybody who disagrees with them as "angry" The amount of times I've been called angry when "amused" is a more proper response amuses me.

Angry and afraid are how rabbits feel when they are losing. You have to be losing for them to feel that they are right, so therefore you must be losing, and therefore feeling angry and afraid, no matter how you might happen to observably look or speak. If you are not feeling angry and afraid, then they are losing, and they can't be losing or they will feel angry and afraid. When rabbits argue, whoever can make the other feel angry and afraid wins.

That's why they always try to isolate you. Because then you will feel angry and afraid, which means you have lost.

2. The excessive explanations for things that don't require excessive explanations. Why do they always do this?

To disguise the fact that they can't present coherent dialectical arguments. It's easier to see if they just hurl a short rhetorical attack. But if they meander all over the place, concoct imaginary dialogues, provide various examples, and so forth, it's hard to even pay attention, let alone dig through it all and see that there is nothing of substance there.

How does Scalzi wanting to hug someone make his point, even if it were true? It doesn't. It's just more rhetorical rabbit floor-thumping. Scalzi NOT afraid. Him afraid AND lonely. Ergo Scalzi right. Scalzi can comfort. GOOD chief rabbit!

Anonymous genuine Scalzi fan February 17, 2015 7:14 PM  

You dudebros are so filled with hate. Why the hostility? Is it because you jocks found out life continued after high school, and we found a voice while all you have is hate, homophobia and racism??

Anonymous Bz February 17, 2015 7:14 PM  

I take it we actually have always been allied with Oceania and only wreckers would claim otherwise?

OT: I finally got my AWAKE hardcover. Ho ho ho. Very nice. And acid free paper too? Excellent.

Blogger ManiaC Provost February 17, 2015 7:21 PM  

genuine Scalzi fan, why do you read hate here? No one here hates Scalzi, unless they
1) Read Zoe's Tale
2) Posted a comment on Whatever and were personally insulted by him, or
3) Suffered a tort instigated by him.

This is merely a polite discussion of why Scalzi chooses to patronize and attack Sci -Fi fans in his blog post, excerpted above.

Anonymous Apollo February 17, 2015 7:22 PM  

what's with the declaring anybody who disagrees with them as "angry" The amount of times I've been called angry when "amused" is a more proper response amuses me.

Its intended to make you look unreasonable, out of control and reactive. Your supposed anger is meant to diminish the validity of your claims.

The excessive explanations for things that don't require excessive explanations. Why do they always do this?

Squid ink. Distraction. A seemingly convincing argument supporting an irrelevant point appears as a win to those who aren't examining your argument critically.

Anonymous zen0 February 17, 2015 7:23 PM  

@ genuine Scalzi fan

You dudebros are so filled with hate. Why the hostility? Is it because you jocks found out life continued after high school, and we found a voice while all you have is hate, homophobia and racism??

Look, if you need a hug, just ask. We are here for you.

Blogger pate357 February 17, 2015 7:47 PM  

He can't POSSIBLY even BEGIN to fathom what these fellows are on about. But, hey, WHATEVER. Doesn't bother him. Not. At. All.
I like the part where he says people who work at these cons in order to make political noise don't last because it's so much work. Those people would crawl over broken glass to signal Goodthink.

Blogger James Sullivan February 17, 2015 7:49 PM  

Cataline Sergius said:

"...the shelves were packed with unsold Steam Punk crap. Steam Punk is for goths that have discovered brown."

That right there.

It's one of those that I've always kind of known but never put into words.

Awesome.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 17, 2015 7:52 PM  

@ genuine Scalzi fan

Poor, poor thing. Curl up in your pajamas right here and have some hot cocoa. It's cold outside.

Anonymous Daniel February 17, 2015 7:58 PM  

Only sexists would presume their unseen opponents to be dudebros.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet February 17, 2015 8:15 PM  

genuine Scalzi fan,

You dudebros are so filled with hate. Why the hostility? Is it because you jocks found out life continued after high school, and we found a voice while all you have is hate, homophobia and racism??

You'll find I don't agree with many here on homosexuality or race politics. Yet, what little I've read of Scalzi here has shown him to be irritating and untalented.

Why is it important for you to have a voice? Why do you even care if anyone hears you?

Anonymous Nathan February 17, 2015 8:24 PM  

"You dudebros are so filled with hate. Why the hostility? Is it because you jocks found out life continued after high school, and we found a voice while all you have is hate, homophobia and racism??"

Sounds like projection to me.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 17, 2015 8:46 PM  

I like the studied pose of nonchalant bemusement that is projected in this blort of squid ink. "Oh, sure, we share cons, we always shared cons, u mad, bro?" it contrasts so interestingly with the hyperventilation of last year.

Does he pay himself by the word? I'm wondering.

Anonymous Giuseppe February 17, 2015 9:10 PM  

For me it's the inherent hypocrisy. Lies wired in right at the DNA level. If you can actually force yourself to read through his tedious bullshit while retaining a dialectic mind, the absolute absence of any shame at essentially doing a 180 at any/all given points while pretending that was always the intended direction of travel is... Well... I may be a heathen savage, but something noble in me thinks that thing, whatever it is called, should be wiped out from the Universe. It's not hatred that motivates the root of that sensation. A sense of hygene maybe. But I prefer to think it's a natural alignment with truth, honesty and beauty and all that is good.

Scalzi, his "writing" and his "thinking" are, like soap operas, one of the surest signs that evil actually exists as a thing in itself. It's the undefined, fog-fart incessant mild stench of rot, that if allowed to permeate your vicinity, inevitably makes everything smell of stale fat-man farts. And once you accept stale fat-man fart humidity as normal, well, the concentration camps are just around the corner.

Blogger Bogey February 17, 2015 9:15 PM  

Anyone ever check if Scalzi is a registered sex offender?

Blogger Bogey February 17, 2015 9:16 PM  

Sounds like projection to me.

That's what I'm reading from Scalzi too.

Anonymous kfg February 17, 2015 9:37 PM  

"Is it because you jocks . . ."

I've commented on this before, you see how they have now classified sci-fi geeks, nerds and gamers as a form of jock?

Of course in some next breath they will project and declare that we are filled with hate because the jocks picked on us in high school.

Blogger pdwalker February 17, 2015 9:52 PM  

If I hadn't been told who it was, I would have thought that those excerpts were written by an immature 14 year old girl.

That's fine, if you're a 14 year old girl.

Coming from a supposedly mature man? Not so much.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 17, 2015 9:58 PM  

For me it's the inherent hypocrisy. Lies wired in right at the DNA level. If you can actually force yourself to read through his tedious bullshit while retaining a dialectic mind, the absolute absence of any shame at essentially doing a 180 at any/all given points while pretending that was always the intended direction of travel is... Well... I may be a heathen savage, but something noble in me thinks that thing, whatever it is called, should be wiped out from the Universe. It's not hatred that motivates the root of that sensation. A sense of hygene maybe. But I prefer to think it's a natural alignment with truth, honesty and beauty and all that is good.

As AC says, he's the camouflaged cuttlefish. K-selected individuals always feel contempt at those who exhibit this kind of shifty, dishonest behavior. It's inherent.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 17, 2015 10:03 PM  

The thing is, it’s work; people who are into conrunning to make, say, a political statement, won’t last long, because their political points are swamped by practical considerations like, oh, arguing with a hotel about room blocks and whether or not any other groups will be taking up meeting rooms.

Of course that's the precise situation where a loon with an agenda will be in charge. People just doing it for the fun won't stick with it when it gets un-fun, but the SJW with an axe to grind will step up and take over.

Question is, is Scalzi too dumb to see that or too mendacious to admit it?

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 17, 2015 10:09 PM  

I tried to read that blog post. Scalzi really writes for a living?

I seem to recall he was claiming not to care about Sad Puppies in '14 too. At the same time wasn't he also offering tips on how to vote down Sad Puppies nominees with the "no award" tactic?

If all is well in fandom, then why worry whether the puppies are sad or angry? Wouldn't a more logical response in that case be something along the lines of, "There's doubtless good stuff in the Rabid Puppies slate, go thou, read and judge for oneself."

Really there's nothing here except a rather poor attempt at mockery from Scalzi. The SJW clique has been running internet lynch mobs for years (ask William Sanders, Jean Rabe, Jerry Pournelle, and so many others). Now Scalzi's clowning around, snarking about how anybody is welcome to participate. It's mind-boggling, but so bizarrely off-base that I think it may come to be considered classic Scalzi.

Anonymous Steve February 17, 2015 10:11 PM  

"Also, I don't know if its just me, but is anyone else just... irritated... by reading Scalzis passive aggressive meandering nonsense? He comes off like a bitchy teenage girl at a slumber party. Why exactly do so many people like his writing?"

Sounds like a fag...want to punch him in the face...multiple times.

"I've commented on this before, you see how they have now classified sci-fi geeks, nerds and gamers as a form of jock"

GWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Me,a jock? Lolololol.

Only if you consider banging chicks a sport.







Which I do.

"You dudebros are so filled with hate. Why the hostility? Is it because you jocks found out life continued after high school, and we found a voice while all you have is hate, homophobia and racism??"

Are you saying this stuff about us because you suck black cock,dude?

Blogger MidKnight February 17, 2015 10:17 PM  

@zen0

Look, if you need a hug, just ask. We are here for you.

Priceless.

@Guisseppe

For me it's the inherent hypocrisy. Lies wired in right at the DNA level.

One of the few things that really does get me angry are sophistry and bullshit.

"Love" how he talks about how inclusive the cons and such are - with much snark - while ignoring "safe spaces" threats, boycott accusations, etc.

The man is fundamentally dishonest, and despite overtures to baen, and Baen publishing everything from Kratman to lackey and Flint, not sure they'd take him in.

Anonymous zen0 February 17, 2015 10:18 PM  

@ Bogey

Anyone ever check if Scalzi is a registered sex offender?

Dudebro, everyone is a sex offender. You just will not know what type you are until the State finds you to be an annoyance and wants to shut you up.

Blogger Desiderius February 17, 2015 10:18 PM  

Joshua,

"the absolute absence of any shame at essentially doing a 180 at any/all given points while pretending that was always the intended direction of travel is..."

The Lord of Lies at work...

"Lies wired in right at the DNA level."

We all have that capacity, at the DNA level. I sometimes wonder if this sort of consistent behavior is what the ancients described as demonic possession.

Blogger S1AL February 17, 2015 10:22 PM  

"Steam Punk is for goths that have discovered brown."

The only good steampunk I've ever seen is Girl Genius... and it's also a font of fantastic social interaction motifs.

I just read the comments thread on Whatever. There's a whole lot of "I don't get it..." posts there, which does explain quite a bit. And the levels of projection are somewhere between "staggering" and "you must be trolling."

Anonymous kfg February 17, 2015 10:27 PM  

"GWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Me,a jock? Lolololol. "

Very peculiar, isn't it? It's one of the first things that leapt out at me from the back room chatter of the anti-gamergaters. They brought it to the fore on Gamers Must Die Day ( a date which will live in infamy).

You're the enemy, therefore scary, therefore a predator, therefore a jock. It's how the rabbit mind works and the only reality they can perceive.

Anonymous JRL February 17, 2015 10:29 PM  

I think we need to steer this conversation back toward racism. Publishing houses with strong minority leadership need to be sought out and their work advanced.

Equality - it's a moral imperative.

Blogger TheCitadel February 17, 2015 11:27 PM  

Scalzi may have just lost his mind, which will likely only result in an increase in his power.

Anonymous Daniel February 17, 2015 11:50 PM  

Funny, this is how he pitched Tor in the first place: by alerting them to an educational blog post that informed them about his availability for a contract and his unsold book. Tor overpaid and he's trying to get them to renew at the old rate, would be my guess.

Then again, "0,000.00" is technically a lot of zeroes.

Anonymous Daniel February 17, 2015 11:55 PM  

Guess what John Scalzi just publically gave up for Lent?

Ego searching.

Blogger IM2L844 February 18, 2015 1:05 AM  

Put the bottle down, John. Friends don't let friends drink and write rambling nonsensical rants. Oh, we're not friends? Carry on then.

Anonymous Clay February 18, 2015 1:18 AM  

Mm. This is almost adult perversity. Who gives a fuck?

Anonymous Clay February 18, 2015 1:39 AM  

BTW, Vox...I saw a Rhodeisian Ridgeback in the finals of it's class nite before last. He had a long, swinging tail...are they cropped by some peoples?

Anonymous Clay February 18, 2015 1:46 AM  

Sorry...I meant docking.

Blogger JCclimber February 18, 2015 1:31 PM  

Yes, he is completely lying about who continues to volunteer for these types of activities.

I'm chairman of a school board. I get zero financial compensation for all the work that it requires, including the unsavory task of hiring and counseling underperforming teachers and firing them and interacting with angry parents.

You think I'm giving up all these hours every month, 12 months a year, for fun?

The school is expressly chartered as a mission outreach of a sister church (we're not even members of that particular church but share the denomination). You see, this is mission outreach to non-Christians (less than 5% of the student body come from Christian homes). I'm serving the cause of my Lord, so while it may not be fun, it contains a lot of joy.

If I was doing this for fun, I would have quit after the first board meeting.

Scalzi is a lying, cowardly fool.

Blogger automatthew February 18, 2015 5:18 PM  

JCclimber, firing useless teachers sounds like immense fun to me.

Anonymous tiredofitall February 18, 2015 6:28 PM  

"Scalzi is a lying, cowardly fool." - JCclimber

You left out cross-dresser and admitted rapist.

Blogger MrNiceguy February 19, 2015 1:01 PM  

Angry and afraid are how rabbits feel when they are losing. You have to be losing for them to feel that they are right, so therefore you must be losing, and therefore feeling angry and afraid, no matter how you might happen to observably look or speak.
Which explains why so many SJW attacks end with "-phobic". If they can explain away their opposition as fear-driven, then, A) they can pretend the opposition is losing, and, B) they can pretend that they are the brave ones.

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