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Sunday, February 08, 2015

More measles facts

The US goverment reports more killed by measles vaccinations than by measles in the USA:
While those opposing mandatory vaccination for measles are widely portrayed as ignorant and even dangerous by some officials, pundits and even news media accounts, Centers for Disease Control records reveal a startling truth – while no one has died of measles in the U.S. in the last 12 years, 108 have died as a result of the adverse effects of the vaccine in that same time period.

The death statistics are recorded by Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, or VAERS, which captures only a small percentage of the actual number of deaths and other adverse reactions to the vaccine. In addition, 96 of the 108 deaths in that 12-year time period were a result of the MMR vaccine, now the preferred shot for measles immunization.
Now, it's important not to exaggerate the relative risks involved. Nine deaths per year is still considerably less than the 248 per year I estimate would result from a completely unvaccinated situation. However, given the fact that some countries, such as the UK, have historically seen LOWER rates of measles incidence at moderate levels of vaccine coverage, it is entirely possible that the optimal risk-minimization level of vaccination for measles is considerably below 100 percent.

This may sound counter-intuitive, but a vaccination regime that prioritized testing for vaccine susceptibility and excluded those children deemed likely to experience an adverse reaction would almost certainly meet considerably less virulent opposition than the present one, let alone the more oppressive regime envisioned by some of the more rabid pro-vaxxers. Providing an alternative delayed schedule and stretching it out would almost surely help in this regard as well. The fact is that if you're genuinely concerned about the falling vaccine uptake, the very last thing you should support is doubling-down on the public pressure and propaganda approach. It not only isn't working, it is observably backfiring.

No amount of propaganda is going to convince anyone who has seen, with their own eyes, an adverse reaction, or had one described to them. And adverse reactions most certainly do happen. That's a fact, and the sooner the pro-vaccine community accepts it and stops trying to hide it, the sooner a more effective solution can be found.

Nothing creates more fear, uncertainty, and doubt than shaded truths and a blanket refusal to answer obvious questions. Rhetoric is no answer for serious doubts, be they reasonable or unreasonable. And as for increasing the pressure via legal means, it shouldn't take a vast amount of foresight to anticipate what sort of adverse reactions are going to occur if doctors begin forcibly administering vaccines to children without parental consent and a child subsequently experiences a fatal adverse reaction.

One unanticipated outcome of forced vaccinations could well be the complete refusal of medical professionals to administer them.

Labels:

47 Comments:

Anonymous zen0 February 08, 2015 12:11 PM  

Another related article, also from WND:

Vaccine Hysteria

Anonymous liljoe February 08, 2015 12:19 PM  

Fun to watch the Washington lapdog press attempt to ridicule anyone who dares challenge the consensus that vaccines should be given to all with or without consent and are completely safe. even while a major network anchor man is continuously exposed as a liar.

you really can't make this stuff up.

Blogger bob k. mando February 08, 2015 12:39 PM  

liljoe February 08, 2015 12:19 PM
even while a major network anchor man is continuously exposed as a liar.



only the historically illiterate are unaware that the news media has been captured by the Marxists and commie symps at least since Duranty and the Holodomor.

with all the lying that that entails.

any objections that you might raise wrt to Brian Williams will simply be discounted as 'self correcting journalism', because he has been forced to step back.

so, you see, Williams is No True Reporter ...

Blogger James Dixon February 08, 2015 12:41 PM  

> And as for increasing the pressure via legal means, it shouldn't take a vast amount of foresight to anticipate what sort of adverse reactions are going to occur if doctors begin forcibly administering vaccines to children without parental consent and a child subsequently experiences a fatal adverse reaction.

And it doesn't take a whole lot of foresight to determine the likely reactions if those legal means fail. But then foresight does seem to be lacking amongst some folks nowadays, doesn't it?

Blogger Bluntobj Winz February 08, 2015 12:43 PM  

Delightful points!

Basically anyone advocating forced vaccinations is a babykiller. It's all for the children, after all.

Obamacare has opened many gates to hell, one is that the government can make decisions in regard to health mandatory. Eugenics can't be far behind, in the name of cost and the children.

Blogger bob k. mando February 08, 2015 12:44 PM  

tangentially on point, Stephen Glass is also No True Reporter ...
http://www.steynonline.com/6794/shattered-glass

Anonymous liljoe February 08, 2015 12:48 PM  

so you're saying Zimmerman is not a wife beater, and he told 911 he looks black, as in, he up to no good?

Blogger kurt9 February 08, 2015 12:52 PM  

One unanticipated outcome of forced vaccinations could well be the complete refusal of medical professionals to administer them.

Or a dramatic increase in home schooling. I believe the way the pro-vax people want to make vaccination mandatory is to tie it to enrollment in both public and private schools. There is really no other practical method for enforcing compliance.

Blogger wrf3 February 08, 2015 1:04 PM  

Oh, what the heck. Let's stir the pot with the economic benefits of vaccines. Note that I have no idea about the qualitity of the stastics, and they aren't the primary point of the article.

Anonymous takin' a look February 08, 2015 1:27 PM  

All good points Vox. So, the way to protect your kids is to give them healthy organic foods, preferably paleo, with treats like full fat yogurt mixed with fruit. Fat, fat and more fat, those brains, bones and bellies need it. Let them get dirty playing outside and give them daily baths. Two parent and/or extended family home. Homeschool or die, (goes without saying) Kill your Talmudvision (nature shows and educational material excepted I guess). Rural or small homogenous town setting. Teach them gardening and small livestock care. Mechanical repair, lathing, welding, darning, etc.

What have I missed? I'm not being sarcastic here, this insanity is a prelude to Codex Alimentarius which ties in with the medical/pharma industry.

Anonymous Steve February 08, 2015 1:31 PM  

I had measles as a boy, it wasn't as bad as chickenpox. For some reason the NHS routinely vaccinates against measles now, but not chickenpox.

Anonymous Curtis February 08, 2015 1:36 PM  

If you have any questions about the lying, cheating, thieving criminals in Washington DC, simply spend the next 8 minutes watching this “bureaucrat” squirm in his chair with guilt. Can you say crocodile tears? I knew you could. Be sure and allow the “hysteria” being whipped up over the measles to drive your car to the nearest inoculation center and have all your family injected with a serum that permanently changes your body chemistry.

http://youtu.be/kMeU-818-YA

http://thedailycoin.org/?p=17976#sthash.wHhxCOa9.ug42foPC.dpbs

Anonymous Will Best February 08, 2015 1:39 PM  

The Placebo is consider unethical for whatever reason, but has anybody ever bothered to compare the risk/efficacy between MMR and the individual shots. I can't see how that would be unethical. Over 6 months give 1 group MMR and 2 placebos, and the other group 1 for each disease.

And really that is my issue with these cocktail drugs. It could be 1 part of the cocktail is perfectly fine but another part isn't.

Then again, if there are 3 times the adverse reactions from the individual groups as there is from the cocktail. People are going to seriously cut down on the number of vaccines they put in their body as that would indicate a problem with the whole process.

Anonymous takin' a look February 08, 2015 1:41 PM  

-wrf3

That Scott Santens is one deluded idiot. Most people in poverty are quite happy in their circumstances. They spend much of their non working hours (if they even work) in endless entertainments or petty dramas when they could be cracking books or watching educational videos. I'm not even talking about the criminals among them.

Blogger S1AL February 08, 2015 1:57 PM  

Now this is a stance I can fully support.

Blogger S1AL February 08, 2015 2:01 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 08, 2015 2:13 PM  

Now this is a stance I can fully support.

Frankly, who cares what you fully support! Are you in a position of authority?

Anonymous The other skeptic February 08, 2015 2:15 PM  

Oh, what the heck. Let's stir the pot with the economic benefits of vaccines. Note that I have no idea about the qualitity of the stastics, and they aren't the primary point of the article.

There is no doubt that the economic benefits to those companies producing vaccines is large, especially since it seems they cannot e sued for any harmful side-effects.

Blogger bob k. mando February 08, 2015 2:46 PM  

Will Best February 08, 2015 1:39 PM
The Placebo is consider unethical for whatever reason



because they are liars and oathbreakers.

you CANNOT KNOW whether the substance that you are injecting is beneficial or harmful until AFTER it has passed through double blind trials.

can saline injections cause harm? to my knowledge, this has never been shown.

so.

simply in order to know that they are "doing no harm", they MUST conduct studies in comparison to placebo ...

Anonymous Stilicho February 08, 2015 3:17 PM  

If doctors start forcibly administering vaccines without parental consent, those doctors will start experiencing an epidemic of lead poisoning. Unexpectedly.

Some days I think the primary purpose of government is to increase the supply of human stupidity. They couldn't be producing so much of it by accident could they?

Blogger LysanderSpooner February 08, 2015 3:33 PM  

Hitlery dun it:


http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB106091266280731300

Anonymous wEz February 08, 2015 3:37 PM  

It would be beneficial to see just how much healthy immune systems, clean water, good nutrition, and sound sanitation practices play a part in thwarting off without the need for vaccines. The ingredient list for many of these vaccines is down-right scary. Herd mentality gives pro vaxers an excuse for any and everything. It's really sad that they fear studies, accountability, and transparency, while at the same time calling everyone who doubts stupid as they continue to toe the line saying "just trust us".

Anonymous Anubis February 08, 2015 3:41 PM  

"can saline injections cause harm? to my knowledge, this has never been shown."

There is a higher than zero chance of getting a blot clot from any blood draw or injection into a vein and that clot going to the brain or heart. With the exception of problems happening with the first vaccines that ever came out, its hard to get good data as any side affect more than one day latter might be written off. The Link on the WND article takes you to the VAERS database but gives a 404 link broken, but I was able to figure out how to get the data.

"For some reason the NHS routinely vaccinates against measles now, but not chickenpox."
The chickenpox vaccine is new and dare I say not proven for long term immunity.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 08, 2015 4:24 PM  

This paper on the Crystal structure of measles virus hemagglutinin provides insight into effective vaccines says:

Attachment proteins of many paramyxoviruses (those belonging to the genera Respirovirus, Rubulavirus, and Avulavirus) have both hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (NA) activities and are thus called hemagglutinin–neuramidases (HNs). HNs recognize sialic acid-containing cell surface molecules as receptors and, upon receptor binding, promote fusion activity of the F protein, thereby allowing the virus to penetrate the cell membrane.

This suggests to me that the most effective way to combat the Measles virus is good health, which leads to the production of sialic-acid bearing mucus in the air-ways, which acts as an effective decoy for the measles virus. Even if the HA on the Measles virus' surface does not bind well to Sialic acid, by expressing the the signaling lymphocyte activation molecule (SLAM),CD46, and nectin-4 in their mucus, people could be just as immune.

I suspect that vaccination has no effect or a very limited effect compared to good health.

See here for more info: http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fmicb.2011.00247/full

It is curious, too, that the first paper says:

Although the molecular basis for the single serotype nature of MV and successful vaccines has been unclear, the knowledge will provide insight into better vaccine design for various infectious diseases.

Anonymous farmer Tom February 08, 2015 4:53 PM  

zen0, The lady who wrote that WND article ran for governor of Iowa as a libertarian. I voted for her. The establishment Repuke won again.

She's awesome though.

Blogger Corvinus February 08, 2015 5:00 PM  

The Placebo is consider unethical for whatever reason, but has anybody ever bothered to compare the risk/efficacy between MMR and the individual shots. I can't see how that would be unethical. Over 6 months give 1 group MMR and 2 placebos, and the other group 1 for each disease.

And really that is my issue with these cocktail drugs. It could be 1 part of the cocktail is perfectly fine but another part isn't.

Then again, if there are 3 times the adverse reactions from the individual groups as there is from the cocktail. People are going to seriously cut down on the number of vaccines they put in their body as that would indicate a problem with the whole process.


I don't understand why they administer cocktail shots like that, both DPT and MMR. Only reason I can think of is that Big Pharma has a standardized formula and it's cheaper for them. But in both cases, you have deadly diseases (diphtheria, tetanus, and rubella in the case of fetuses in pregnant women) mixed in with more innocuous ones (pertussis, measles, mumps).

I think it's safe to conclude that if the vaccine kills more people than the disease, that particular vaccine should be removed from circulation. Especially if the vaccine isn't even 100% effective (as with the flu shots they offer every year).

Anonymous DT February 08, 2015 5:01 PM  

...while no one has died of measles in the U.S. in the last 12 years, 108 have died as a result of the adverse effects of the vaccine in that same time period.

In fairness it should be noted that VAERS is not sufficient to establish cause and effect. Now I'm not saying that those deaths have nothing to do with vaccines. Only that we are unsure of the precise number of deaths and complications from vaccines. Which is why there should be more research; testing and evaluation before administration to any child; and far more detailed investigation and tracking with any deaths that occur shortly after vaccination.

The fact is that if you're genuinely concerned about the falling vaccine uptake, the very last thing you should support is doubling-down on the public pressure and propaganda approach. It not only isn't working, it is observably backfiring.

The money quote. However, we are ultimately dealing with politicians. They are generally mid-wits or worse. They are binary thinkers who have a tendency to run to the use of force to solve anything they perceive to be a problem. Which is anything that threatens their re-election, or which can possibly be seized for their paycheck.

And they are being screamed at by parents who often completely turn off whatever critical thinking kills they have when it comes to questions like this because "if it saves just one child!" Though I have some sympathy for them and their fears, as opposed to the politicians. Parental irrationality is at least driven by love for a helpless human being.

Blogger bob k. mando February 08, 2015 6:09 PM  

Anubis February 08, 2015 3:41 PM
There is a higher than zero chance of getting a blot clot from any blood draw or injection into a vein and that clot going to the brain or heart.



yes, true, "non-zero".

which is why we have people dying in droves every time the Red Cross does a blood drive. which is why they're always doing blood drives, because noone wants to participate.

and man, they just stack bodies up behind the Plasma clinics.

in fact, by that criteria, no one should EVER get an injection or fluid draw ... unless already deathly ill.

thanks for playing.

Blogger Harold February 08, 2015 7:42 PM  

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp Snopes disagrees with you about no one dying from measles in the U.S. in the last 12 years. They have 4 deaths.

Blogger S1AL February 08, 2015 8:52 PM  

"Frankly, who cares what you fully support! Are you in a position of authority?"


-Right back at you. But please, be more salty about me expressing an opinion.

Anonymous rtp February 08, 2015 9:12 PM  

I thought you had run away S1AL

Anonymous The other skeptic February 08, 2015 10:12 PM  

But please, be more salty about me expressing an opinion.

Your opinions and assholes are similar. Will that do?

Blogger S1AL February 08, 2015 10:42 PM  

"Your opinions and assholes are similar. Will that do?"

- You like them both?

Blogger automatthew February 08, 2015 11:07 PM  

You're fairly new here, Preston. Do you think you ought to be scrapping with the old-timers?

Blogger S1AL February 08, 2015 11:11 PM  

"You're fairly new here, Preston. Do you think you ought to be scrapping with the old-timers?"

More fun that way. Gives me a chance to feel out the more vocal individuals. Also, twitter? Or did you link me using a less obvious source?

Blogger Tallawampus February 09, 2015 2:41 AM  

I really love the Ilk and this site, but this vaccine thing is like finger nails on a blackboard to me. Vox is just dragging the red anti-vaccine cape in front of the pro-vaccine bull for fun and excitement, but a lot of you guys posting here - and I’ve been reading without posting for about a year now - are hysterical about vaccines. I use hysterical purposefully, with every bit of its historical nuance.

I've been a pediatrician for 10 years and I think that I’ve seen more kids under one year old vaccinated in the last 10 years than most of you have seen vaccinated in your lifetimes. Hands on with each one of them and follow up for several years afterwards. In my experience and not relying on government or drug company studies I can say that vaccines are very low risk. Not no risk, nothing is completely safe, but I haven’t been seeing kids dropping dead or even having side effects like you guys seem to think happens so frequently.

The last “bad reaction” to a vaccine in my clinic was about 6 months ago, a baby got hives after his 4 month shots. One dose of Benadryl and he was fine. Prior to that I had an 11 year old faint after her shots maybe 5 years ago. And yes, I know, what about 30 years from now? Or 40? I have no idea and neither do you. I’m 45 years old and I got every vaccine they had when I was a kid – including the vaccine for smallpox – and more when I was in the Army and so far I’m fine.

And as far as the risks of vaccines, pfft. If you think vaccines are dangerous, do you worry about the dangers of driving your kids around in the car? Cars are way more dangerous to children than vaccines. You guys are screaming about “Saving the children!” and the dangers of vaccines with as much logical thought as the idiots who want gun control.

I’m not some apparatchik. My politics are best described as classic liberalism and I live and work in a nice conservative western state where we still have cowboys - real cowboys, not country music singer types. So no, I don’t support government mandating vaccination. Parental choice is fine. My clinic does have a mandatory vaccine policy which we're up front about so it's no surprise. If you don't want vaccines or you want some odd home grown vaccine schedule then you can choose to go somewhere else. No one is forced to do anything.


Blogger bob k. mando February 09, 2015 2:45 AM  

S1AL February 08, 2015 10:42 PM
- You like them both?


you've bent over in front of us often enough that you'd think you would have figured out that we're not interested by now.

but you know what they say;
hope springs eternal in the bosom of the desperate and needy.

OpenID artisanaltoadshall February 09, 2015 5:30 AM  

@Tallawampus
My clinic does have a mandatory vaccine policy which we're up front about so it's no surprise. If you don't want vaccines or you want some odd home grown vaccine schedule then you can choose to go somewhere else. No one is forced to do anything.

You seem to think that people have a choice in the matter. If one is receiving government benefits (especially for the children) then they discover enrollment in a comprehensive vaccine program is mandatory. Yes, one can play the religious belief card at some area schools, but school systems are fighting back.

Your anecdotal experience does not take into account several things and you're effectively saying "I don't see it, therefore it doesn't exist." First, no vaccine is safety tested as used except maybe tetanus. There are a number of very valid concerns that children with reactions to vaccines that do not show the reaction immediately (which was your example) are misdiagnosed when the reaction occurs at a later point because of the widespread belief by physicians like you that vaccines are safe. Therefore, it must be something else.

I have written enough study protocols that I can pretty much assure you that even if I can't figure out a way to design the study in such a way to make the compound look safe, I bet I can find somebody who can. While the FDA has some bright people, they are politically driven and some of them in surprising levels are not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. When it comes to the FDA and drug approval, cash and politics talk and ethics walk. Look up Stanislaw Burzynski for proof of that. Look at his study results and then try to tell me that if it was your kid you wouldn't get on a plane for Houston. Its such an outrageous example they even made a movie about it.

Vaccines are a HUGE cash cow for Big Pharma because of so many government mandates and people keep having kids every year. Vaccines are considered part of the accepted level of care so insurance companies automatically cover them. The Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association is still (I think) the largest contributor to election funds in Washington. If you think that doesn't have an influence on policy, you've just proved those vaccines you got actually did injure your brain.

This leads to one of the flaws of the AMA/FDA/NIH system of doing research. If the study doesn't get done, the possible results never get published. Therefore, when you search the literature, you only get one side of the story. I can tell you from experience that the NIH is incredibly politicized and they don't tolerate direct assaults on conventional wisdom, unless it's to intentionally skew the data in some area of alternative research. It isn't difficult to adopt a methodology to prove the study premiss will fail. Either the research is profit driven (Big Pharma) or grant-driven. As to the profit-driven research, look at how many studies proved smoking was healthy.

I'll leave you with one last point in the vaccine story. Polio was *cured* with high doses of intravenous sodium ascorbate by a doctor named Frederick Klenner in the 1940s and the details and methodology were published in the July 1949 issue of the Journal of Southern Medicine and Surgery (209). Here's an easy link to a reprint: http://nutri.com/49/

Everybody wants to bow and worship at the feet of Saulk, but the fact is, you can't patent a vitamin. There should have been one hell of a celebration in 1949, but no, there's no way to make an obscene profit on a vitamin. In 1949 Klenner published in and presented a paper to the American Medical Association detailing the complete cure of 60 out of 60 of his patients with polio using intravenous sodium ascorbate injection. He was ignored because they were waiting for a vaccine so they could make some real money. I lay the responsibility of every polio case during the 1950s at the feet of the American medical establishment, which was and is driven by Big Pharma

OpenID jeffwriting February 09, 2015 9:56 AM  

I don't think only the Drug companies are making the money. A doctor we visited with before our child was born, when expressing his outrage that we didn't just follow the 'herd' blurted out, I sell 300K of vaccines every year and see no reactions.
That got me thinking.
A well baby visit is really a visit for shots.
Keeps the doctors offices full.
When we show up once for a checkup, all the kids in the office were on a first name basis with the staff.

Blogger S1AL February 09, 2015 10:07 AM  

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=YczYVMj4N861yASgrIDwAg&url=http://www.who.int/immunization/programmes_systems/financing/analyses/en/briefcase_vacproduction.pdf&ved=0CC8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEKpu5BrFIttuDIPzakVySEeGpXlw&sig2=2NTshIa4jZz8_cfr4NC0oQ


I'm not sure if this is entirely accurate, but it claims vaccines are 2% of the total pharmaceutical market. Given the amount that the average first-world individual spends on painkillers alone, that sounds reasonable.


@bob k. Mando - I... Don't think anyone actually says that.

Anonymous Michael Maier February 09, 2015 11:20 AM  

jeffwriting February 09, 2015 9:56 AM I don't think only the Drug companies are making the money. A doctor we visited with before our child was born, when expressing his outrage that we didn't just follow the 'herd' blurted out, I sell 300K of vaccines every year and see no reactions.
That got me thinking.
A well baby visit is really a visit for shots.
Keeps the doctors offices full.
When we show up once for a checkup, all the kids in the office were on a first name basis with the staff.


I have never understood a "well baby visit". If your baby's well, why take it to a disease-ridden office?

I'm thinking of skipping my physical this year. I was paranoid about my blood work but since going more paleo, it's been fine. I can feel when things are wrong.

Blogger Marissa February 09, 2015 1:11 PM  

Look up Stanislaw Burzynski for proof of that. Look at his study results and then try to tell me that if it was your kid you wouldn't get on a plane for Houston. Its such an outrageous example they even made a movie about it.

I had no idea that guy was for real. I drive by his building a lot on I-10. I might have to look into it in the future considering I live on the "carcinogenic coast".

Blogger Tallawampus February 09, 2015 3:38 PM  

Only the government schools require vaccinations, no other “government benefits” that I know of require vaccinations. Unless being in the military is a benefit as all active duty military personnel are required to be vaccinated. I’m not a fan of government schools and my children don’t attend them. I’m with you on this. I’m perfectly willing to agree that vaccinations are an individual decision and shouldn’t be forced by the government.

I did NOT say that vaccines are safe, so you are willfully misinterpreting what I wrote. I wrote that the benefits outweigh the risks. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in medicine is risk free. I could look in your ear with my otoscope and rupture your eardrum. I could jam my tongue depressor through your soft palate. Those are absurd but real examples. I’m definitely not perfect and I’ve missed diagnoses – and made misdiagnoses – before. I’m sure I will again. Please enlighten me about what I’m missing instead of being vague.

I’d never heard of this Stanislaw Burzynski guy before now. He makes his own drug, sells his treatment for profit and claims it works with studies he does himself. He does exactly what Big Pharma does but on a smaller scale. Why do you believe him? He has a vested financial interest in selling his product just like Big Pharma. You can’t discount one without discounting the other.

As for the studies, yup, they can be manipulated just like statistics. That’s why you have to read things with a jaundiced eye. I agree with you. But somewhere, sometime you have to make a decision based on what evidence you can find. I am suspicious of your ability to discern good vs bad evidence based on your support of Dr. Burzynski. He is just as dirty as Big Pharma and the government.

I read your link about vitamin C. It’s fun to read that old stuff sometimes since the language and terms and disease processes were understood and discussed differently then – I’m not being dismissive, just an observation. I certainly wouldn’t base any treatments on this single paper. What he is presenting is just as anecdotal as my vaccine experiences. 60/60 cure rate for polio? Where is his data on all 60 patients? What controls did he use? Was there any attempt at making it double blinded and placebo controlled? Again, you are accepting blindly from this guy what you won’t accept from others.

Also, just a bit of reality, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. His list of things he can cure with Vitamin C – polio, diphtheria, herpes simplex, herpes zoster, influenza, viral encephalitis (which is nonspecific), measles and mumps just in this one paper - is so long, and his cure rates are so high that it doesn’t pass my initial sniff test. Heck in another paper (cited below) he also claims vitamin C cures snake bite, burns, mononucleosis, chronic carbon monoxide poisoning, barbiturate poisoning, high cholesterol, lockjaw, infectious hepatitis, corneal ulcers and heat stroke.

Really. It doesn't sound suspicious at all.

Linus Pauling thought vitamin C cured cancer from what I can find he couldn't prove it.

You don’t support your case against vaccines very well. I only have anecdotal evidence and it’s still more believable than what you have.

Here’s the other paper of Klenner's I read:

Journal of Applied Nutrition Vol. 23, No's 3 & 4, Winter 1971
Observations On the Dose and Administration of Ascorbic Acid When Employed Beyond the Range Of A Vitamin In Human Pathology
Frederick R. Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P.

Anonymous Stilicho February 09, 2015 5:22 PM  

while no one has died of measles in the U.S. in the last 12 years, 108 have died as a result of the adverse effects of the vaccine in that same time period.

Has anyone seen any stats on how many cases of measles were treated in the U.S. in this same period?

Anonymous Stilicho February 09, 2015 5:33 PM  

From the CDC:

During 2001-2011, 911 measles cases were reported.[22] The median number of measles cases reported per year was 62 (range: 37-220 cases/year). Measles incidence has continuously remained below one case per million since 1997. The majority of measles cases were unvaccinated (65%) or had unknown vaccination status (20%).

So... a mean of about 91 cases per year, at least 15% of which and possibly as high as 35% had received a vaccination. No deaths due to contracting measles, including in the unvaccinated (65%) cases.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 10, 2015 12:40 AM  

It has to be asked, it seems to me, why people think that vaccination can work for viruses for the following reason.

Viruses have very few surface molecules. Two or three in the case of H1N1 (three because while 80+% is Hemagglutin, the rest is mostly Neuraminidase with one molecule being a transport channel.)

Given that these same molecules are used in normal cellular functions or close analogues are, how can the immune system recognize that they are foreign?

I am interested in details or pointers to papers that explicate that.

Blogger Doug February 11, 2015 9:17 AM  

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.long
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S236.long

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