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Thursday, February 12, 2015

Mother up

Society doesn't need you getting a degree in Communications or Business or Peruvian Basket-weaving. It doesn't need you getting a STEM degree or learning to program so you can compete with cheap H1B imports from India. Society doesn't need you working at a local/state/federal government job in order to feed your four cats. Society doesn't need you "finding yourself" by jumping on the ALPHA carousel for ten years, then jumping off and trying to stick the landing with BETA in the three-year fertility window you've left yourself. Society doesn't need you trying to prove you're just as good as a low-performing, ineffectual man. Society needs you to be a) a woman, b) a wife, and c) a mother.
Back in 2004 the never-married rate for 25-29 year old White women was just under 37%, a number which remained roughly the same from 2002-2005.  Now less than half of all White women in their late 20s have ever married.

When I first started charting this the most recent data was from 2009.  At the time, I didn’t see compelling data backing up the notion that men were on a marriage strike.  I’m still not convinced that a “marriage strike” describes what we are seeing, but with five years of additional data it is obvious that we are undergoing a significant change in marriage patterns.
That whole shiny secular equalitarian society that the feminists assured you was right around the corner isn't real; it is less real and less functional than the It's A Small World ride at Disneyland. You're not going to be president, you're not going to be an astronaut, and no one needs you to be a soldier, a fireman, or a policeman.

Your future family needs you to be what you were created to be. A mother. And women know it, or so many of them wouldn't be zonked out of their greying gourds on psychotropic drugs in order to mask their dissatisfaction living life as ersatz men. The disease known as "women's rights" is literally killing women.

The math simply doesn't work. I know it's hard, Barbie, but run the damn numbers if you don't believe me. How are 0.75 male college graduates going to marry every female college graduate? Considering that men tend to prefer to marry less educated women, there isn't even one potential husband for every two of you. And if you think those of us who are married and have children are going to tell our children to support your saggy barren asses in old age, well, think again. The world of equalitarian feminism is a nightmare world for women, a world of loneliness, drugs, deprivation, and solitary death.

It's time to stop pushing young women into college, stop pushing them into pretending that they're going to have careers, stop encouraging them to jump on the carousel, and start telling them to mother up.

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258 Comments:

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Blogger Josh February 12, 2015 12:04 PM  

How are 0.75 male college graduates going to marry every female college graduate?

Harems.

Blogger Sleepy February 12, 2015 12:12 PM  

Yup, polygamy is the answer. But will the alphas want a contemporary woman even as a second-stringer?

Blogger AmyJ February 12, 2015 12:15 PM  

You forgot #LikeAGirl

OpenID taqiyyologist February 12, 2015 12:17 PM  

He's talking to you, Barnhardt.

Blogger Giraffe February 12, 2015 12:18 PM  

I don't think polygamy is the answer. For every extra wife a man has, there's a guy without one. That's a guy who has little reason to contribute to civilization. At best he doesn't contribute much. At worst, he starts raping and pillaging.

Blogger hank.jim February 12, 2015 12:19 PM  

It seems like the ultimate aim is getting married and having kids. Otherwise, why commit suicide? There are just too many distractions to keep women from their goals. Careers, sexual relationships, trips, and major dreams all keep women from nailing down a man. The timeline is wrong too. You can't achieve this by 30 because 30 is already too late.

This is the new reality timeline. You have to find marriagable men by end of college at 25. Marry by 26. First kid by 27. Delay career until after 35 after 3 kids. It is actually better to have major dreams and travelling within the context of marriage and kids.

Blogger Dewave February 12, 2015 12:20 PM  

Didn't the same crowd that brought us #LikeAGirl also bring us #mansplaining?

Blogger RC February 12, 2015 12:21 PM  

And people tell me regularly that I'm brutally straightforward. I hold not a candle to our intrepid host.

OpenID taqiyyologist February 12, 2015 12:24 PM  

Indeed, RC.

Barnhardt's like that, too. I would mother that up.

Anonymous Leonidas February 12, 2015 12:28 PM  

Considering that men tend to prefer to marry less educated women

And, at least as - if not more - importantly, that women tend to prefer to marry more educated men, and will not stay happy and satisfied if they do actually marry a less educated man.

Anonymous Jeanne February 12, 2015 12:31 PM  

"And if you think those of us who are married and have children are going to tell our children to support your saggy barren asses in old age, well, think again. "

I tell my teenage sons that if they ever encounter a woman who says she is a feminist or acts like a feminist, that they are not to even befriend such a woman, much less ever consider dating her. They are to treat any woman claiming to be a feminist or showing sympathy to feminists issues as if they are infected with a virulent strain of Ebola and to run like hell from them.

Anonymous clk February 12, 2015 12:35 PM  

VD ... What has changed to make marriage a good proposition for the man ? Is there anything that recommends marriage as good for the man ? .. to me .. your sending off a bunch of poor young men to slaughter, to live lives of misery in either marriage or a > 50% chance of divorce. I knew your were cruel .. this this borders on evil :)...

Sorry .. until the dynamics of marriage change I dont care what is good for society or women ... I would never recommend my sons get married and expose themselves to what happens after that fails.

Anonymous Anonymous February 12, 2015 12:36 PM  

Reality bites!

Once again, one potential silver lining - I'll stop short of calling it an inevitability - is that with the crash of this faux prosperity based on structural theft/fiat money, subsidized lifestyles that these "princesses" have led for decades, beginning with my own generation, the Baby Boomers, will fade into extinction for the most part simply because they serve no useful purpose.

At least, I certainly hope so!

Regards,
David Smith

Anonymous Curlytop February 12, 2015 12:37 PM  

PREACH!

You'd be surprised just how many in home-educating circles haven't grasped this fact either. I see so many families encouraging their 17 yr old "precious" onto the college debt, carousel scene. The real howler is how many are encouraging them into the arts—both sons & daughters.

It's going to be a real rude awakening when they discover how many families with sons are teaching them these truths at a young age.

Time to "LadyUp," Women!

Anonymous sawtooth February 12, 2015 12:38 PM  

Alpha screwing career girls don't eventually turn into lonely, wine sipping cat strokers.
They turn into powerful and experienced cougars. Mentoring young nubile guys into the mysteries of pleasuring a woman.
(sarc)

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 12:40 PM  

What has changed to make marriage a good proposition for the man ? Is there anything that recommends marriage as good for the man ?

Society is dying. Men need children. All the rules and laws to which you refer no longer matter. We are now living in a lawless age of tooth and claw, it's just that most haven't recognized that reality yet. Men now control women the same way they did for millennia.

Sorry .. until the dynamics of marriage change I dont care what is good for society or women ... I would never recommend my sons get married and expose themselves to what happens after that fails.

Just as I don't care about you or your sons. You're nothing more than dead ends. None of you matter.

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 12:42 PM  

I would never recommend my sons get married and expose themselves to what happens after that fails.

If you raise your sons to be men then this risk is minimal.

Anonymous Vaccine myth denier February 12, 2015 12:43 PM  

They just need to move to Jamaica!

http://news.yahoo.com/caribbean-gender-gap-grows-women-rise-men-stagnate-050421731.html

Anonymous Curlytop February 12, 2015 12:48 PM  

@Leonidas
I was about to post the same. So correct. And if you EVER observe a couple where the wife has more education than the man...ooof, it's painful. The constant lording over how much SHE knows when in reality it doesn't remotely compared to the spouse who doesn't have as many sheets of paper...and debt.

@Jeanne
I'm doing more than that. I've started demonstrating the more subtle signs to look for given that mine have an aunt who would NEVER proclaim to be a feminist, yet she is the exact prototype discussed on Alpha Game. I've told them to listen to how women talk about family,marriage, and gender roles. At 13, second son has already connected the dots regarding a woman who will defensively shoot back with, "You're sexist" when he makes the accurate observation that the home in question is in fact, his uncle's—not hers. I beamed with pride that he simply shrugged his shoulders and gave a snappy retort with a polite smile.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 12:48 PM  

VD ... What has changed to make marriage a good proposition for the man ? Is there anything that recommends marriage as good for the man ? .. to me .. your sending off a bunch of poor young men to slaughter, to live lives of misery in either marriage or a > 50% chance of divorce. I knew your were cruel .. this this borders on evil :)...

What changes that? Good women, of course. Just because there's a lot of bad ones in our society doesn't mean that you can't find good ones. And the laws of supply and demand favor your sons. They'll need to be cautious to make sure that the drift in society towards feminism don't get them stuck in a bad situation, but there's plenty of reason to be of good cheer for the parents of boys today. I'm more worried about the situation facing my daughter, in many ways, than I am the one facing by boys.

Anonymous Jill February 12, 2015 12:48 PM  

I don't know what the matter is with people. They seem to have very limited imaginations of the future. Education is valuable in and of itself, but it does not have to be gotten from college. A woman can educate oneself at home, or she can get married, have children, and still go to college if she can find a way to fund it (scholarships, or what-have-you). They can also find a way to make money off their degrees from home if they use their imaginations. Careers don't need validation from the government-corporate world. People live in such strange binaries--ridiculous either/or scenarios. Meanwhile, nobody's having children in this country but the Duggars and their ilk, who are clearly superior breeders. The Duggars have had enough children to start their own nation. Now that's survival of the fittest in action. Who cares whether they are weird or people hate them? They're the future.

Anonymous Stickwick February 12, 2015 12:52 PM  

taqiyyologist: He's talking to you, Barnhardt.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but Barnhardt seems like the other side of the feminist coin. While I admire the fact that she's very principled and stands up for Western civilization, she's also disturbingly masculine. She apparently got several marriage proposals after her Koran-bacon-burning video. In response, she claimed that she's wholly unsuited for matrimony, and almost seemed proud of it. She seems far more interested in martyring herself and obtaining sainthood than in submitting to a husband and participating in the continuation of Western civilization.

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 12:54 PM  

stop encouraging them to jump on the carousel

Unless it's a hairy persian named Roosh.

Anonymous Anonymous February 12, 2015 12:54 PM  

If she won't give you her best years then don't be there for her worst.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 12:55 PM  

The highest and best purpose of a woman who is capable of going to law school is to have six kids who are capable of going to law school, and teaching them to do something useful instead.

We are going into the Great Cull. The old, lonely, and useless will demand that the fruitful and productive take care of them. The demand will be refused. As will the demands of the useless and fruitful. Harsh and ugly, but they asked for it.

Anonymous Jeanne February 12, 2015 12:56 PM  

I would never recommend my sons get married and expose themselves to what happens after that fails.

I do tell my sons to get married. I tell them to get married, and have lots of children. I tell them this is a noble and honorable thing to do.

I also tell them to only date women that are Christians and that hold to the biblical concept of marriage. That if a women does not believe in Ephesians 5:22-23, then they should not even date her. That if a women believes that divorce is permissible for any reason other than adultery, they are not to date her.

Anonymous Stickwick February 12, 2015 12:59 PM  

clk: a > 50% chance of divorce

It's bad out there, but not that bad. The divorce rate for first-time marriages peaked in the early 1980s at 40%, and has been dropping ever since. The 10-year survival rate of first-time marriages is now slightly over 70%.

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 1:01 PM  

We are going into the Great Cull. The old, lonely, and useless will demand that the fruitful and productive take care of them. The demand will be refused. As will the demands of the useless and fruitful.

You must be a lot of fun at parties, Discard.

OpenID taqiyyologist February 12, 2015 1:02 PM  

Disturbingly masculine.

Maybe because she ain't been completed, yet.

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 1:04 PM  

In response, she claimed that she's wholly unsuited for matrimony, and almost seemed proud of it. She seems far more interested in martyring herself and obtaining sainthood than in submitting to a husband and participating in the continuation of Western civilization.

She's the sort that historically belonged in a nunnery. And would be happiest there.

OpenID taqiyyologist February 12, 2015 1:04 PM  

That woman needs to mother up. All I'm sayin', besides, well, all I'm sayin'.

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 1:07 PM  

The problem is that marriage is a lose-lose proposition now.

Men have long run the risk of loosing everything - possessions and children.

With the changing divorce laws and rulings regarding alimony, women now risk being left without any income.

Married at 20 with kids at 22? Have fun when your husbands finds his true love at 40. No alimony, no child support (grown kids), no job, no education and no experience in the workforce.

Society might need women to go back to marrying and having kids young, but who would wants to personally accept the risks?

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 1:08 PM  

50% chance of divorce.

This is an ongoing myth that needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice. It's never been that high except among some very high risk groups. Throw in regular church attendance, premarital counseling, premarital chastity, and natural birth control and the rate is almost so low as to be negligible.

Anonymous Jeanne February 12, 2015 1:08 PM  

In short, I am raising my sons to look at feminism with utter contempt. To treat it and those who hold to its tenets as something akin to a pathological disease: to be avoided at all costs and utterly destroyed whenever possible. I am teaching them to be incredibly careful about dating and marriage, and that while marriage is holy and honorable, it is a lifetime commitment to be entered into ONLY with someone who believes in the biblical commandments regarding marriage.

I am hopefully that there are parents of daughters out there doing the same. While western civilization crumbles, we can win some small battles in the larger war... the odds are grim, but I am not without hope.

OpenID taqiyyologist February 12, 2015 1:09 PM  

Nun?

Ann?

No, I'm thinking.

Well, maybe hoping more than thinking.

Blogger RC February 12, 2015 1:09 PM  

Though their may not be many on a percentage basis, there are still many good young women available on an absolute numbers basis. I personally know of a dozen, all homeschooled with loving but strict fathers. Just yesterday I interviewed a gorgeous 23 year old woman for an office job, homeschooled, not interested in career, still living at home, just hoping to provide for herself until she finds a good man to start a family with. If my second son were a few years older...

Blogger Bodichi February 12, 2015 1:12 PM  

@After Omega,

"Society might need women to go back to marrying and having kids young, but who would wants to personally accept the risks?"

What risks? You made this silly statement, as if most women who married young had their husbands run out on them. Go to Dalrock's blog. 70%, do you understand that, 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Your argument has no basis in fact. Back it up or retract your baseless statement.

Blogger RC February 12, 2015 1:13 PM  

"In short, I am raising my sons to look at feminism with utter contempt. To treat it and those who hold to its tenets as something akin to a pathological disease: to be avoided at all costs and utterly destroyed whenever possible. I am teaching them to be incredibly careful about dating and marriage, and that while marriage is holy and honorable, it is a lifetime commitment to be entered into ONLY with someone who believes in the biblical commandments regarding marriage." - Jeanne

Where is your husband? You really don't have much to add if they're approaching adulthood.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 1:20 PM  

The highest and best purpose of a woman who is capable of going to law school is to have six kids who are capable of going to law school, and teaching them to do something useful instead.

Yes!

Anonymous DNW February 12, 2015 1:22 PM  

"It's time to stop pushing young women into college, stop pushing them into pretending that they're going to have careers, stop encouraging them to jump on the carousel, and start telling them to mother up."

Well, I wonder if allowing certain folks to weed themselves out before the whole train wrecks, might not be possible to pull off. [The same would naturally apply to borderline personality males]

Isn't depression inherited? Is it really in everyone's best interest to encourage a bunch of man-faced neurotics to mate and propagate their psychological and moral dysfunction ad infinitum?

Wouldn't it be better of if MoDo of the flapping feet and bitter brain, never found her "soaring eagle" equal?

This quote is something of a classic:

" Society doesn't need you working at a local/state/federal government job in order to feed your four cats."

But ... "positive liberty!"

Anonymous Earl February 12, 2015 1:24 PM  

Unfortunately any steps taken to change toward thebetter will be labeled as extreme right wing sharia-like oppression by nearly everyone including conservative Christians. The only way off this tail spinning burning wreckage is to eject. Hope you brought a parachute.

Anonymous Jeanne February 12, 2015 1:25 PM  

My husband teaches them the same exact thing. And further more, we model what we teach in our own home..

These are the types of things I tell them repeatedly while homeschooling when lessons drift to other tangential subjects, as they often do with teenagers. It is quiet easy to incorporate marriage lessons and advice into history class for example, or economics class...

I know the effect of a mother on her sons is often considered to be negligible and pointless after a certain age, but I believe her influence, if modeled in a Godly fashion and with words backed up by actions, can still play a role in a teenage boy's life.


Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 1:26 PM  

Curlytop: Anyone who tries to lord it over another because of the number of degrees they have hanging on the wall is an idiot. Einstein had no PhD. And any man who allows himself to be bullied by an over-degreed wife is also an idiot and pussywhipped as well.

Now, I have seen a man attached to a woman who is actually much smarter than he is.

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 1:26 PM  

The highest and best purpose of a woman who is capable of going to law school is to have six kids who are capable of going to law school, and teaching them to do something useful instead.

I just tweeted an abbreviated quote of this. Well said.

Anonymous DJJ February 12, 2015 1:26 PM  

Ann is getting pretty close to 40, so she's pretty much past the curve.

Anonymous Alexander February 12, 2015 1:28 PM  

Oh I dunno, France now has an explicitly Muslim political party. Sure it's 'very small' and obviously is something that no right thinking westerner should ever, ever, ever worry about.

But I suspect they'll have a number of interesting things to say regarding a woman's place. And hilariously, those thoughts are going to ensure a larger part of the future electorate.

So... we're passed the tipping point, and either Christians and Western secularists who at least recognize that the *western* in their name is culturally significant will come to terms with reality, or they won't and the hostile opposition will hit them in the face with it.

It's one thing to intellectually know that things that can't go on forever, won't, but it's nice to actually look out and see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 1:31 PM  

"Your future family needs you to be what you were created to be. A mother."

By this simplistic metric, men were created to be cheating philanderers, spreading there sees as far and wide as possible.

But of course there ain't no creating going on. The sexes weren't "meant" to do anything.

Your fiction bias is showing.

Anonymous Vaccine myth denier February 12, 2015 1:31 PM  

It's almost like there's a conspiracy to reduce the number of white people in the world.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 1:32 PM  

We only have two mouser cats left on a property that could use 5 or 6. One is fixed but the other is nearing her first heat cycle and is coming home smelling like the barn across the street. She knows what we need her for and is getting the job done. If only intelligent women would be that smart.

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 1:33 PM  

"Unfortunately any steps taken to change toward thebetter will be labeled as extreme right wing sharia-like oppression"

And for very good reasons.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 1:33 PM  

I see this whole thing as a giant trend marching women straight into polygamy. Several working women sharing one guy.

There really is no other way this ends.

Blogger Cadders February 12, 2015 1:37 PM  

TBH, I think the choice for women NOT to take care of the economy in the absence of men has all but disappeared.

The 'option' for women to 'work like men' has now reached the point that it has become an obligation.

It's the ONLY way that the feminist illusion can be maintained.

All the time women could displace men in the working world whilst men, as a group, continued to generate the wealth necessary to keep things ticking along, no one much cared if women gave up after a few years to have kids, or went part time to care for them, or switched to a lower paid, lower pressure job when things 'got hard', or retired early.

But that's over now. Too many men have been displaced, dis-incentived or impoverished by feminism for men, as a group, to keep the show on the road. They tried using huge amounts of debt, but we've reached the end of that road as well.

It's on women now to keep the edifice from crumbling. But more and more women are discovering that when you 'work like a man' you can expect to give birth to the same number of children as a man, and still more (especially the plainer women who in the past would have been wifed up) are starting to discover that trying to live like a man gets you about as much attention from the opposite sex as a man.

Women, as a group, will buckle long before they ever reach a point of sustaining a modern, advanced society. When it falls apart, men will be blamed, of course.

Just before women, camelion like as ever, start assuming traditional roles, whilst denying they ever believed in or supported feminism.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 1:37 PM  

Porky: You're wrong. I'm not a lot of fun at parties. On the rare occasions I go to a party, I usually find some other outlier to chat with in a corner.

Blogger YIH February 12, 2015 1:37 PM  

taqiyyologist:
Great blog you have there;
“He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?” Micah 6:8 KJV
That's the 'About' page. Click 'Home' and you get this:
Not Found

Apologies, but no results were found for the requested archive. Perhaps searching will help find a related post.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 1:42 PM  

Hank TR Too: If females were not created to have children, what are wombs for? What are breasts for? You might as well argue that dogs were not created to eat meat.

Blogger JartStar February 12, 2015 1:43 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Samuel Scott February 12, 2015 1:46 PM  

I'm biased because I work in digital
marcom, but communications degrees are important.

Since consumer spending makes up 70% of GDP, marketers are important. We get people in the door, then sales takes over. If you work from a company that sells a product or service, revenue from sales and marketing almost surely pays your salary.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 1:46 PM  

Curlytop: I dropped a phrase. I have seen men attached to women who are much smarter than they are. It is very painful to watch. He's dumb and she's an utter fool.

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 1:47 PM  

Bodichi - "70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Your argument has no basis in fact. Back it up or retract your baseless statement."

30% isn't baseless. It's a significant basis. Or would you better all of your assets in a game where you had a 30% chance of losing?

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 1:48 PM  

Porky: You're wrong. I'm not a lot of fun at parties. On the rare occasions I go to a party, I usually find some other outlier to chat with in a corner.

I think I know a guy just like you. Anyway, what you said is exactly what Porky was implying.

Blogger YIH February 12, 2015 1:49 PM  

Vox:
She's the sort that historically belonged in a nunnery. And would be happiest there.
Doubtful, she's all but called nunneries hotbeds of lesbianism.
I agree with others, her life's goal is to literally become a martyr.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 1:52 PM  

After Omega,
Do you have any evidence that the 30% of men initiating divorce do so after 20 years of marriage?
I think if you would look at the actual statistics of divorce initiated by men who have wives who have stayed home and raised children you might even agree the odds are worth the bet.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 1:57 PM  

Samuel Scott: A country that bases its economy on buying and selling trinkets while the rest of the world is making their shoes and steel will, sooner or later, be eaten by the shoemakers and steel men. The world doesn't need trinkets, but it does need shoes and steel.

Anonymous Earl February 12, 2015 1:57 PM  

Hi Hank. Welcome to the blog. How many children do you have?

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 1:59 PM  

Student in Blue: I know. I'm joking.

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 2:00 PM  

SarahsDaughter,

Nope. The 30% number isn't mine, it's Bodichi's. And it was for the over all number of divorces, not those after 20 years of marriage.

I fully agree that we need people, especially women, to marry and have kids younger. The problem is that the sacrifice and risk involved will mean that more and more men and women will not.

It's been disincentivised.

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 2:03 PM  

There really is no other way this ends.

Stepford. It's not that far off.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Google had a Stepford division working on this right now.

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 2:05 PM  

@Discard
If you had said something like "You're right, I'm no fun at parties. I wind up spending my time outside, in the bushes, looking in the window and panting heavily." then it'd be a lot more obvious to me you were joking.

As it is, what you put down was rather tame.

Anonymous BoysMom February 12, 2015 2:05 PM  

hank.jim 26 is way too old. 20 would be a better goal.

We need also to encourage our daughters to look at men who are at least a half-decade older than they are as marriage prospects, rather than the young men their own age, and our sons to look at girls at least half a decade younger, thus giving the young men time to gain some security to offer their wives and children. Our ancestors knew this.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 2:06 PM  

I see this whole thing as a giant trend marching women straight into polygamy. Several working women sharing one guy.

There really is no other way this ends.


Isaiah 4:1, guys. KJV "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach."

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 2:06 PM  

whenever you have a dirth of marriageable males in society... polygamy follows. That's a factual historical pattern.

It will happen. It is likely already happening.

Anonymous Stilicho February 12, 2015 2:07 PM  

Several working women sharing one guy.

Until one of them starts having children and staying at home. Then the claws (and perhaps the knives) come out. Sure, they might work to support a man, but they sure as hell won't work to support the brats of that other slut while she gets to stay at home with said brats.

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 2:12 PM  

@SarahsDaughter
Why are you even bothering to argue from that direction? The very basis of his argument is mindbogglingly stupid.

As if you can reduce 30% divorce initiations from men without also increasing the 70% divorce initiations from women... it's patently absurd and awful logic.

The entire point of the 70% figure was that women are the ones making marriage risky, so it's by far in their hands how risky they want to make marriage.

This is seriously 3 Stooges logic.

Blogger Bodichi February 12, 2015 2:12 PM  

@After Omega

"Nope. The 30% number isn't mine, it's Bodichi's."

If I say 2+2=4 does that become mine as well? Does my assertion of facts or truth make the facts and truth mine to own? If I say the acceleration of gravity is 9.8 mps^2 do I own that?

70% of divorces initiated by women is a fact. It's truth is asserted in that you will not even put up a flimsy argument against it.

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 2:15 PM  

We are going into the Great Cull. The old, lonely, and useless will demand that the fruitful and productive take care of them. The demand will be refused. As will the demands of the useless and fruitful.

I'm seriously tempted toward going speed-dating and using this as an opener.

Anonymous Trimegistus February 12, 2015 2:16 PM  

Einstein got his Ph.D. in 1905.

Blogger hank.jim February 12, 2015 2:18 PM  

The stats say women initiate 2/3rd of divorces, that's 66%, slightly less than 70%. I suspect a rounding up of the stats. I don't disbelieve women do initiate a majority of the divorces. Few dispute the stats.

Anonymous cheddarman February 12, 2015 2:19 PM  

"She's the sort that historically belonged in a nunnery. And would be happiest there."

Sister Mary Barnhardt...she would be totally badass in black...

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 2:22 PM  

Student in Blue: Porky is right. I'm not really a lot of fun at parties, including this one. I guess my jokes are just too tame for this crowd.

Speaking of humor, what have you got against the Stooges, the greatest Jews in a couple millennia?

Anonymous Curlytop February 12, 2015 2:24 PM  

@Discard
No argument here regarding both of your replies to me....

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 2:25 PM  

Stepford. It's not that far off.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Google had a Stepford division working on this right now.


What is your idea about what Google would do? I'm thinking of a better version of anti-depressant, so more of a pharmaceutical "solution".

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 2:27 PM  

Trimegistus: Dr Einstein? I stand corrected. But the point stands, even if the example does not. Degrees are not education, they are schooling.

Blogger Owen February 12, 2015 2:29 PM  

whenever you have a dirth of marriageable males in society... polygamy follows. That's a factual historical pattern.

It will happen. It is likely already happening.


Let's take a trip to the welfare office. I'll introduce you to five women with children from the same guy(s).

Anonymous Anonymous February 12, 2015 2:32 PM  

In response, she claimed that she's wholly unsuited for matrimony, and almost seemed proud of it. She seems far more interested in martyring herself and obtaining sainthood than in submitting to a husband and participating in the continuation of Western civilization.

Vox: "She's the sort that historically belonged in a nunnery. And would be happiest there."

Jeremiah Says: I've had an email exchange with her on the subject of leaving the military rather than accepting a comission. I get a similar vibe. I send several paragraphs and get back one line.
She's cordial of course, but no man can compare to Jesus. She should've been a bride to Christ methinks.

Anonymous BoysMom February 12, 2015 2:35 PM  

Just out of curiosity, would you ilk consider an action that would've resulted in the death penalty back then but doesn't now a legitimate reason for divorce? (Lev. 20:27, for example.)

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 2:37 PM  

Not surprisingly, the boomers have the worst divorce rate at 41%. Overall, though, over 70% of all women are still married to their first husband.

The 50% myth was SJW propoganda.

Anonymous Porky February 12, 2015 2:39 PM  

What is your idea about what Google would do?

A robot that looks like Katy Perry, makes hot wings, brews her own beer, and yells out "You're the greatest, Porky!"

Anonymous Earl February 12, 2015 2:42 PM  

No legit reason for divorce except a wife's sexual immorality and even then it is detestable. Not even imprisonment or mental illness is an excuse for divorce. Death however frees one to remarry, especially if it is a young widow.

Them's the breaks, Jesus followers.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 12, 2015 2:43 PM  

We need also to encourage our daughters to look at men who are at least a half-decade older than they are as marriage prospects, rather than the young men their own age, and our sons to look at girls at least half a decade younger, thus giving the young men time to gain some security to offer their wives and children. Our ancestors knew this.

And those men are just supposed to stuff their sexual desires in that time? Pretty stupid idea, unless you want to go back to child brides with the 20 year old marrying a 10 year old.

And the idea that women are at huge risk in marriage is laughable. Do a bit more research before trotting out the "evil cheating man" canard. It is more likely she would become unhappy and then find a way to blame her husband rather than him doing anything to deserve divorce.

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 2:45 PM  

Bodichi - "It's truth is asserted in that you will not even put up a flimsy argument against it"

Dude, it's all yours man. I never argued that it's not 70% women initiating divorces.

You can have 2 + 2 as well.

Anonymous Earl February 12, 2015 2:46 PM  

Google would never program such a creature. It will be a woman in name only. When it hears you pray it will beg to sodomize an angel with a smartdildo powered by Android OS.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 12, 2015 2:47 PM  

Earl,

Jesus was asked whether a man could divorce his wife for any reason. He did not answer what options a woman had. The Scripture does not say more, though I would agree that the principle is one man and one woman for life.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey February 12, 2015 2:47 PM  

Well said, Vox. Young women need to hear these truths. I meet enough single, childless women in their 30s-50s to know the pathetic fate that awaits their if they don't mother up.

Anonymous PSacramento February 12, 2015 2:48 PM  

The bible doesn't always comment explicitly on matters, but on divorce Christ does:
Matthew 19:
3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7 They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 He *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Matthew 5 also of course.

Anonymous Truth is Racisssssss February 12, 2015 2:49 PM  

Just because White women aren't getting married, doesn't mean they're not having babies. Drop by the local Wal-Mart and see all the fat White chicks with mulatto babies loading up their EBT cards.

Blogger Iowahine February 12, 2015 2:52 PM  

VD: Men now control women the same way they did for millennia.

Amen.

Anonymous clk February 12, 2015 2:52 PM  

VD says "Society is dying. Men need children. All the rules and laws to which you refer no longer matter. We are now living in a lawless age of tooth and claw, it's just that most haven't recognized that reality yet. Men now control women the same way they did for millennia."

You know .. just because wine is plentiful in Italy and delightful doesnt mean that you should drink so much of it so that you cant reply intelligently. I dont understand whats going on with you .. at times.. it seems as if you are not even the same person. I hope you are ok but I worry that you are working yourself into a point of view that will lead you to bad ends. Societies are always changing: up, peak, down. .. reality ..past the cold hard equations of math, your reality and my reality dont have to match and yet both are correct.

VD says "Just as I don't care about you or your sons. You're nothing more than dead ends. None of you matter."

A verdict on humanity yes ...and a judgement perhaps on your personal journey of enlightement .. although I think differently and while I admit I have nothing in the way of a mathematical proof for this --- I dont share your opinion..

Peace.

Anonymous Earl February 12, 2015 2:53 PM  

Did I say something wrong?

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 2:54 PM  

Why are you even bothering to argue from that direction? The very basis of his argument is mindbogglingly stupid.

Of course it is, but you would be surprised how many feminist men say the same thing. That a woman is risking too much by not getting her degree and having an income source. That men will leave them when something better comes along (projection?). That the lifestyle women like me have chosen is simply lazy and not well thought out, we're wasting our life, our opportunities and our example puts other women at risk. Our daughters are being held back by our archaic parenting and "spiritual abuse". They shriek that we are "fundamentalists" "part of a quiver full movement" etc.

Of course the statistics do not corroborate this but to a group who, as I've been told by one of its members, "doesn't believe in logic" (not kidding) statistics just don't matter much less reason.

Blogger YIH February 12, 2015 2:57 PM  

Truth is racissssssss:
Just because White women aren't getting married, doesn't mean they're not having babies. Drop by the local Wal-Mart and see all the fat White chicks with mulatto babies loading up their EBT cards.
An example.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 2:57 PM  

Brad Andrews: My guess is that, historically, men in their early twenties screwed whores or town sluts before they married. And women waited for marriage, or kept very close track of their menstrual cycles. Clearly, the level of promiscuity that exists now did not exist in the past, before birth control, legal abortion, and penicillin.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 3:02 PM  

He did not answer what options a woman had

Sure He did, 1 Corinthians 7.

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 3:04 PM  

Speaking of humor, what have you got against the Stooges, the greatest Jews in a couple millennia?

A couple millennia? Did you perhaps forget of a Jew named Jesus from Nazareth? Even if you don't agree with what He said, there's no doubting the impact He's had.

But either way, I was misremembering correctly. I was thinking of the Abbott & Costello skit where 13 x 7 = 28. I just misattributed it.

Anonymous Will Best February 12, 2015 3:05 PM  

I was about to post the same. So correct. And if you EVER observe a couple where the wife has more education than the man...ooof, it's painful

This hasn't been my experience, but then 2/3rds of the time when I see a woman with more education than a man, the man was in the military. Ie. former marine, now fireman wife is doctor. The women are all highly deferential to these types of men. I also find that education doesn't matter when the husband earns more than the woman. Ie. STEM bachelors degree men pulling high-5s don't seem to have problems with their master in psychology/education social worker/school teacher wives.

The recipe I find most common for disaster is same quality of grad degree (both lawyers, both masters). Women in these relationships have the hardest time submitting to their husbands.

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 3:05 PM  

A robot that looks like Katy Perry, makes hot wings, brews her own beer, and yells out "You're the greatest, Porky!"

LOL, I didn't even think of robots. Duh, Stepford. I was thinking more like a brain chip. Seems cheaper.

Anonymous dh February 12, 2015 3:07 PM  

Clearly, the level of promiscuity that exists now did not exist in the past, before birth control, legal abortion, and penicillin

Depending on where and when you look, the promiscuity was usually much lower - fewer partners, except for whores. There are some records that suggest women who whores who were infertile for either artificial or naturally occurring reasons had 10+ partners a day.

Otherwise, there was pre-martial sex, but not typically promiscuity. A non-virgin woman who eventually married may have been with 1 or 2 other men before her wedding. It would be unusual for this knowledge to get out and for the woman to still be considered a suitable marriage prospect.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 3:08 PM  

Just out of curiosity, would you ilk consider an action that would've resulted in the death penalty back then but doesn't now a legitimate reason for divorce? (Lev. 20:27, for example.)

No, not for a woman to be able to divorce her husband. And remember, the paper that the State gives women seeking legal divorce does not inform God of her divorce.

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 3:09 PM  

@SarahsDaughter

I'm not saying to be silent, I'm saying that you're better off coming from a different direction.

Such as, using a combination of rhetoric and dialectic, instead of just logic. After all, what use is using only statistics and logic against people who "doesn't believe in logic"?

Blogger John Wright February 12, 2015 3:18 PM  

"The sexes weren't "meant" to do anything. "

I am puzzled as to how the modern mind can be de-educated to such a state where someone can look at a bird's wing and say, "this organ is not meant for flight" or at an eyeball and say, "this organ is not meant for receiving sight through lightwaves" or look at the physiology, psychology, and historical record of behavior of womankind for all of history and prehistory and say, "This sex is not meant to bear and nurse the child, nor to cleave to the man who fathers them, nor to reproduce the race."

Fool. Look at what makes women happy, and you will see what they were meant for. Selfishness is not what makes them happy, not in the long run. Love is.

So, once again, the Church is correct on the nature of male and female reality, sexual morality, love and marriage whereas the modern world who rejects the Church is contorted into the spine-snapping posture needed to insert one's own head into the anal cavity, where unclean matter fills eye and ear and insulates them from reality.

No one is surprised save those who share that posture.

Anonymous rho February 12, 2015 3:18 PM  

Along with "mother up," we need to bring back "it's not real parenting until you're outnumbered."

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 3:20 PM  

It would have been nice to hear this kind of thing as a child instead of college, career, independence!! ... ::crickets:: Nothing about being a wife and mother.

Anonymous BigGaySteve February 12, 2015 3:21 PM  

"Sure it's 'very small' and obviously is something that no right thinking westerner should ever, ever, ever worry about."

That's what Serbs in their homeland of Kosovo thought before Slick Willey Clinton switched his war on women to Serbian civilian targets.

I have had enough str8 friends and acquaintances to know most gay marriages would be a contest in who can quit their job first to collect alimony. There are already gays willing to get HIV on purpose, called bug chasers, that do it so they can claim victim status and lay about on social security disability. It seems like most surgeons I have meet are paying alimony, with their long hours the 1/2 of high pay for nothing must be too tempting to women. If gay marriage existed I would be divorced at least 4 times and paying alimony along with having assets split.

"You must be a lot of fun at parties, Discard. "
Acquire currency including hidden physical gold/silver. Fortunately the ratio of bottoms/tops means I can get away with wearing thought crime t-shirts in the summer.

Anonymous BigGaySteve February 12, 2015 3:23 PM  

map- BigGaySteve, You can buy sodium triphosphate at the paint store? How much do you add to the laundry or dishwasher?

Its sold as cleaning powder in the paint aisle, I looked its actually tri sodium phosphate TSP that I have. I use for lawful intended purposes, No True strike Scotsman strike Gay would warm the globe just to have nicer looking cloths despite that by not having kids I would impact the environment less if I sank 25 oil tankers, than some crack hoe that cranks out 18 kids.I usually buy it at the home depot. Its currently sold for washing walls before you paint. Make sure to check the box as a page I looked on said some states allow TSP to be put on the label when there are no phosphates in it(green box). Here are some people giving info that don't care about global warming, all hail Bathhouse Barry.
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?154481-Add-tsp-to-laundry-and-dishwasher-to-clean
http://poppyjuice-poppy.blogspot.com/2013/05/adding-trisodium-phospate-to-your.html
http://www.dishwasherdetergentphosphate.com/make-your-own-phosphate-dishwasher-detergent/

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 3:23 PM  

You know .. just because wine is plentiful in Italy and delightful doesnt mean that you should drink so much of it so that you cant reply intelligently. I dont understand whats going on with you .. at times.. it seems as if you are not even the same person.

The fact that you are too stupid to follow does not make my reply unintelligent.

A verdict on humanity yes ...and a judgement perhaps on your personal journey of enlightement .. although I think differently and while I admit I have nothing in the way of a mathematical proof for this --- I dont share your opinion..

You've said you don't give a damn about society. So be it, but why should society or anyone else, including me, give a damn about you? You don't matter and your sons don't matter. They're not going to marry, on your advice, so you and your line will die out. You're irrelevant, sooner or later.

Leave this discussion about the future to those whose genes will be around for it, dead end. Because the future belongs to those who show up for it.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 3:25 PM  

"Until one of them starts having children and staying at home. Then the claws (and perhaps the knives) come out. Sure, they might work to support a man, but they sure as hell won't work to support the brats of that other slut while she gets to stay at home with said brats."

Hardly. Women are far more practical than you give them credit for. In fact it would work quite differently than you think. Some will prefer to stay home and some will prefer to work. in some cases all of them will work.. in most cases it will be a mix of both.. and all of them will consider themselves to be "having it all".

Anonymous cheddarman February 12, 2015 3:49 PM  

I am in Vox' amen corner here, but it will require more than facts and logic to speak to multitude of the female rationalization hamsters. Destitute, formerly strong and independent women begging for bread would make the best of object lessons.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 3:49 PM  

"It would have been nice to hear this kind of thing as a child instead of college, career, independence!! ... ::crickets:: Nothing about being a wife and mother."

where did you grow up?

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 3:50 PM  

'I am in Vox' amen corner here, but it will require more than facts and logic to speak to multitude of the female rationalization hamsters"

You'd be surprised. You should remember... Vox is just telling them what all of them already know on some level... and he's telling them what the vast majority of them want to hear.

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 3:59 PM  

Women are looking for permission to do what they want. They have rival desires. The church and Christian families are failing their daughters by not giving them permission to prioritize being wives and daughters.

Do you talk about college and career more than marriage and children with your daughters? Then you're failing them.

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 4:00 PM  

Nate, multiple states, mostly suburban southeast Florida. No matter where I grew up, I would have had the same parents. And I doubt the public school teachers were pushing anything different either.

Blogger automatthew February 12, 2015 4:02 PM  

We who have been talking about the "Jew" stuff are off topic, and likely to get reprimanded. I'm out.

Blogger Miss Carnivorous February 12, 2015 4:02 PM  

I once dated a Russian guy who told me that Russian women appreciated men because they lost so many of them in wars. He told me that American women took their men for granted, acted as if they hated, or didn't need men, and that many Russian women (and others) were ready to appreciate our men for us, and that our men are highly desirable by world standards. American men treat women as intelligent, sentient beings worthy of love, respect and consideration.

Anonymous RamBam Thank You Ma'am February 12, 2015 4:13 PM  

The church and Christian families are failing their daughters by not giving them permission to prioritize being wives and daughters.

I know quite a few Christian families who are emphasizing the prioritizing of college and careers for their daughters. They know not what they do.

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 4:13 PM  

I once dated a Russian guy who told me that Russian women appreciated men because they lost so many of them in wars. He told me that American women took their men for granted, acted as if they hated, or didn't need men, and that many Russian women (and others) were ready to appreciate our men for us, and that our men are highly desirable by world standards.

And it isn't a new thing. American women would sneak into POW camps holding German prisoners in the U.S. during WW2.

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 4:18 PM  

Student in Blue. "This is seriously 3 Stooges logic."

Wow. You just don't get it do you?

Even if the brainwashing were to end today, there is still reality that people have to deal with.

Should women get married and have kids younger? Yes. Yes, dipshit, yes. Will they? Not like they used to. Why? A bunch of reasons, including a significant chance that their husbands will leave them.

It's just like mothers working. Should they work and leave their kids with strangers? No. Will they? Yes. Why? Because, reality. It's far different for a single income family today than it used to be.

Both are absolutely what is needed (stay at home moms and women marrying younger and having kids younger) but the risk and sacrifices necessary mean that the numbers aren't going to return to what they use to be any time soon.

Anonymous Stickwick February 12, 2015 4:21 PM  

Discard: The highest and best purpose of a woman who is capable of going to law school is to have six kids who are capable of going to law school, and teaching them to do something useful instead.

Women hate to be left out -- that envy is a good part of what's driving feminism. So, you tell a modern intelligent woman that the best purpose she has is to forget law school and have six kids, out of which only the boys will go on to law school and the girls will go on to likewise produce only male law students, etc. and she's going to think she's supposed to be shutting out generations of women from doing anything but producing children. The males, meanwhile, will go on to make names and careers for themselves, while the women are nobodies and all but forgotten. I've heard this many times, and have no idea how to respond to it. I want to encourage my own daughter to marry and have children while she's young, but I have no adequate response to her if she comes back at me with this.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 4:25 PM  

I think I'd rather send a son off to war than a daughter to college. At the very least, send her to the local Jr college to learn a skill first. Hopefully, she'll meet a nice fellow studying to be a transmission mechanic or cabinetmaker, or even a future engineer taking all his lower division classes on the cheap. And if she must, let her enter Big State U at age 21 rather than age 18.

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 4:25 PM  

The males, meanwhile, will go on to make names and careers for themselves, while the women are nobodies and all but forgotten. I've heard this many times, and have no idea how to respond to it. I want to encourage my own daughter to marry and have children while she's young, but I have no adequate response to her if she comes back at me with this.

My recommendation: You're not going to make a name for yourself by imitating men, and at best, becoming an inferior pseudo-man. And you're going to risk your chance to have a happy life with a husband and children for that. Why would you trade something that will make you happy for something that will make you miserable?

Do you think any man would be dumb enough to do that? Play the cards you're dealt. Scribbling on them and pretending that they're different than they are isn't going to fool anyone.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 4:27 PM  

Women hate to be left out -- that envy is a good part of what's driving feminism. So, you tell a modern intelligent woman that the best purpose she has is to forget law school and have six kids, out of which only the boys will go on to law school and the girls will go on to likewise produce only male law students, etc. and she's going to think she's supposed to be shutting out generations of women from doing anything but producing children. The males, meanwhile, will go on to make names and careers for themselves, while the women are nobodies and all but forgotten. I've heard this many times, and have no idea how to respond to it. I want to encourage my own daughter to marry and have children while she's young, but I have no adequate response to her if she comes back at me with this.

It's quite simple, in my opinion. In heaven... or heck, even in your Golden Years after you retire... what will your career have mattered to those left behind? When you retire and quit your job, whomever you work for will go on pretty much as if you never existed, unless you are an entrepreneur or work for a family-owned business, of course. Within a few weeks, people will barely remember you existed.

Do you think the children of an involved mother will say the same of the investment that she put into them?

In addition; your primary purpose isn't your only purpose. Both my wife and my mother got involved in satisfying careers as the children started aging a bit. My wife's still at the beginning, in most respects, of hers; my mothers' at the end. It's a false binary to suggest that women who stay at home to have children will never do anything but produce children.

Anonymous BoysMom February 12, 2015 4:30 PM  

Brad Andrews, you appear to think I was saying something about men cheating. I've no idea where you got that from. I'm talking about holding down a job, having a couple months of rent in the bank, not living in Daddy's house on Daddy's dime under Daddy's care right up until the day he gets married like she ideally does. I also don't see that it's any big deal to ask a young man to wait until he gets married at twenty-three or so to become sexually active--that puts her at eighteen with five years of age difference. Maybe I'm wrong about that, being a woman. Maybe younger for both would be better. I do know that there are a lot of eleven and twelve-year-old girls chasing my twelve-year-old son, and he is simply not interested yet.

As far as my question: the latter part of SarahsDaughter's answer is pretty close to what I told my Sunday School class--high school. I thought it was a rather interesting question--after all the spouse of the demon-consorting would've been a widow or widower back then . . .

Blogger SirHamster February 12, 2015 4:30 PM  

I know the effect of a mother on her sons is often considered to be negligible and pointless after a certain age, but I believe her influence, if modeled in a Godly fashion and with words backed up by actions, can still play a role in a teenage boy's life.

It's the difference between the extremes of, "I want a girl like my mom is with my dad" and "Not getting married, I might end up with someone like my mom."

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 4:30 PM  

And, to make an observation that's somewhat topical for this particular site; there are of course many worthwhile pursuits that can be done at home. Just ask Stephanie Meyer if being a stay-at-home mom caused her to fail to make a name for herself!

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 4:31 PM  

John Wright: "I am puzzled..."

Of course you are. That's what results from trying to explain reality with answers arising from fiction.

Blogger SirHamster February 12, 2015 4:33 PM  

The males, meanwhile, will go on to make names and careers for themselves, while the women are nobodies and all but forgotten.

Start naming those billions of remembered men, as opposed to their forgotten wives.

Forgotten men are forgotten on a much deeper level than any forgotten mother.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 4:35 PM  

"The males, meanwhile, will go on to make names and careers for themselves, while the women are nobodies and all but forgotten. "

This is just laughable. mothers have been historically revered. the idea that they are all but forgotten is ludicrous. Forgotten by who?

And exactly what men make names for themselves? How many factory workers do you actually know?

And since when do we give a damn if someone has made a name?

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 4:36 PM  

In fact, Stephanie Meyers' case is of particular interest. Assuming Wikipedia is correctly quoting her, she thought of going to law school. Once her oldest son was born, she immediately abandoned any plan or attempt to really do anything other than raise him.

Although she found that she had sufficient free time to turn to other pursuits; namely writing.

I see something similar with my female co-workers, most of whom have of course already waited too long to get married and have kids under the delusion that their careers will make them happy. I'm amused (although not surprised) to see them crank out a couple in very short order as their biological clocks are ticking at incredible volume, decide after a year of two of returning after maternity leave that their career suddenly isn't very important to them after all, and migrating to part time, or simply quitting altogether.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 4:38 PM  

This notion that a career is the peak goal in life is pure feminist penis envy.

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 4:44 PM  

This notion that a career is the peak goal in life is pure feminist penis envy.

It's also projection. A lot of men have a career so they can have a family. They might enjoy that career, but it's not the summit of their existence.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 4:44 PM  

This notion that a career is the peak goal in life is pure feminist penis envy.

Indeed. My wife and I quickly reached together a number of conclusions: 1) Careers aren't that exciting. Mostly, it's a combination of tedium and stress, with only a few peak moments of any kind of significant satisfaction. 2) I'm much more psychologically equipped to deal with what a career actually entails, or at least a career that pays enough to keep afford my wife the opportunity to be at home. Likewise, 3) I'm profoundly unsuited psychologically to raise the children on a day to day basis, or be at home with him for an extended period of time.

We may be very stereotypical in terms of attitude and aptitude, but clearly we've found that traditional gender roles were the only roles for us that made any kind of sense at all.

Not that we ever considered anything else, really. But under the barrage of indoctrination we both received from our cultural Marxist public education, it was gratifying to see how easily, naturally, and obviously God's way of doing things fell into place for us.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 4:49 PM  

Stickwick: Boys should not be going to law school either, they should be learning something useful. Now, if girls really want to become plumbers, let they try. If they can stick it out and become engineers, so be it. Far and away, they will choose women's traditional work instead, nursing and teaching, cooking and mothering.
Now, if your daughter really wants to be a scientist, and not a science administrator, you may not have an argument. But there's no reason to send her to an academic sex resort just to occupy her time for four years, and then become an over-credentialed secretary.

And how is it that rearing superior children is for nobodies? That's feminist propaganda.
And how many men go on to make names and careers for themselves? More feminist propaganda. You ever hear of Eugene Rankins? Just a man who went to work and loved his wife and kids, taught his sons to fish and let his daughter cover their garage door with her murals. Are he and his wife nobodies? Are their eight(?) grandchildren nobodies? By what corrupt values?

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis February 12, 2015 4:50 PM  

I think the Ilk need to have a contest to see who can produce the most descendants.

Blogger Marissa February 12, 2015 5:00 PM  

I think the Ilk need to have a contest to see who can produce the most descendants.

Western civilization-style, not like Cromartie.

Anonymous tiredofitall February 12, 2015 5:05 PM  

"By this simplistic metric, men were created to be cheating philanderers, spreading there sees as far and wide as possible." - Hank TR Too

Well f*cking DUH! Yes, men were created to spread their seed. It wasn't until religion appeared that the license was limited to one woman to be fruitful with.

Dammit I'm agnostic and I get this concept, how the hell don't you?!?!

OpenID cailcorishev February 12, 2015 5:08 PM  

This notion that a career is the peak goal in life is pure feminist penis envy.

Yes. For most men, a career is a way to reliably put food on the table, nothing more. Only a few are able to do something they enjoy enough that they'd do it for free, and only a tiny number of those ever make a "name" for themselves that will be remembered longer than it takes for their seat to grow cold.

Ask yourself, if a relative died and left a trust fund that would provide you with $1000/week cash (or whatever you consider a comfortable income), would you continue going to your job? Most men wouldn't. Sure, you'd keep busy doing something, but probably not punching a clock for someone else, if that's what you're doing now. That being the case, how is a "career" in an office somewhere something anyone should envy?

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 5:13 PM  

@After Omega
Will they? Not like they used to. Why? A bunch of reasons, including a significant chance that their husbands will leave them.

Here's where the absolutely retarded logic is.

Your justification for women being concerned that husbands will leave them is by using the 30% figure, which is that 30% of all divorces are initiated by men. So, following your logic, in order for women to be incentivized to marry, 0% of all divorces should be initiated by men... which means that 100% of all divorces should be initiated by women.

Which changes literally nothing about the actual rate of divorces, just who's pointing fingers.

This, of course, does not jive with actual history, in which women were marrying, and divorces weren't 100% initiated by women.

Do I need to hold your hand any further?

Anonymous Stingray February 12, 2015 5:14 PM  

That being the case, how is a "career" in an office somewhere something anyone should envy?

It's not the career that is envied. It's the recognition for it.

We women crave recognition and mothers simply don't get that much any more. One must be very grounded in reality to not want that recognition any more and even then, it will creep up on you. Finding and marrying a man whom truly respects one for being a mother will also go a very long way. But it is a niggling thing that must be fought against regardless.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 5:19 PM  

"It's not the career that is envied. It's the recognition for it.

We women crave recognition and mothers simply don't get that much any more. "

No. This is pure grass-is-greener envy. feminists of old had all kinds of bizarre ideas of where power comes from and where happiness comes from. They marketed those ideas. Women fell for it.

But no matter the marketing... once you buy their product and it fails to make you happy... you realize they are full of shit.

Mothers are pedastalized. They always have been and always will be. I would wager the word "saint" is applied to mothers more than any other group.

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 5:20 PM  

@Stingray
It's not the career that is envied. It's the recognition for it.

I would argue that, in addition, it is also the connection with other people, i.e. the sense of community, that is also intoxicating.

When the neighborhood around you seems cold and distant, doesn't the prospect of peers in the workplace make a career so much more appealing?

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 5:21 PM  

"But it is a niggling thing that must be fought against regardless."

That's why you join the Garden Club darlin'. You women are always dreaming up some organization of busy bodies to do this or that and recognizing each other for it.

You'll figure it out.

I promise.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 5:30 PM  

"
I would argue that, in addition, it is also the connection with other people, i.e. the sense of community, that is also intoxicating.

When the neighborhood around you seems cold and distant, doesn't the prospect of peers in the workplace make a career so much more appealing?"

Where does this idiotic notion that people that don't work have no social lives come from? I mean honestly... do you see your friends and social more when you're at work... or when you're off?

See where we're going here?

Anonymous Stickwick February 12, 2015 5:36 PM  

Nate: This is just laughable. mothers have been historically revered. the idea that they are all but forgotten is ludicrous. Forgotten by who? And exactly what men make names for themselves? How many factory workers do you actually know?

Well, that's just it. It's like when you ask an atheist if he worries about death, and he says, nah, all these people I know will remember me, so I'll live on in a sense. All you have to do to pierce that bubble is to ask them what their great-grandparents' names were. If you think about the billions of people who have ever lived, and the fact that maybe 10 to 100 historical names are immediately recognizable to the vast majority of people living today, the notion that making a name for yourself matters collapses.

One major problem is that motherhood is no longer revered. I suspect that to most people, "matriarch" just means "single mother." Most of the women I know who are my age have Boomer mothers whom they either despise or pity, and I think that's messed up my entire generation as far as prioritizing motherhood.

This notion that a career is the peak goal in life is pure feminist penis envy.

Yes, it is. As I said, much of what drives feminism is envy. If you want to understand why women behave the way they do, it's almost always because they hate to be left out of something -- even if it's something they're not really that interested in. It's like my cat; she only wants into a particular room because I've just now closed the door.

My problem is that, to some extent, I suffer from this envy. Not in a hateful way, but in a longing sort of way. From my perspective, the male world is much more enjoyable and interesting than the female world. I know, just purely from a logical point of view, that regardless of how anyone feels about it, women must be mothers in order for Western civilization to continue. I suspect that most women would be happier this way, too. But I see this resistance with my colleagues with regard to the way they're raising their daughters. With my own daughter, I know it's important for her to marry and have children young, and so I have to start preparing her for that as soon as possible. But I no more know how to do that than I know how to respond to my colleagues, because I'm so personally conflicted about it.

[By the way, I'm not trying to be a solipsistic snowflake here and make this all about me. I realize this is my own personal problem, but I consider a lot of you friends, in a way, and have gotten some pretty good insights and advice here in the past, so that's why I'm spilling my guts here.]

Anonymous Stingray February 12, 2015 5:39 PM  

You'll figure it out.

I promise.


Thank you, Nate. But I'm not worried about me. I do have it figured out and my support system is rock solid. But so many woman just can't see it. Validation, especially the short term, intense kind, is fleeting. They need to find for themselves the Truth. And while many still do pedestailze mothers (though it seems to be a whole lot of single mothers. Traditional mothers? We seem to scare people), sadly, those aren't the people women want it from. Logical or not, it is what it is .

A Student in Blue,

I am not the best person to ask that question as I'm not much for peers in a working environment and work never appealed to me. For other women? Maybe, for women more extroverted, but it always seems more of a ruse to me. More of an excuse to work rather than what they might really want.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 5:40 PM  

Look... even radical feminists know that if you give women the choice... the vast majority of them will choose to stay home and pop out babies.

That's just a fact.

And thus... winning this particular battle is not going to be that difficult.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 5:43 PM  

My husband and I were just discussing the most unique situation we've had in life. Several of us military families paid the price to live in South Korea with our husbands without sponsorship. We were close with three of those families (17 of us all together). We all lived in the exact same apartment complex of 600 sq ft apartments. Those of us who had children had to home school because none of us could afford the private schools. We all made the exact same amount of money and none of us wives could work (we couldn't afford the work Visa). Everyday after we'd cleaned our apartments and did our laundry and school lessons, the four of us wives and our children would walk to the camp, ride the bus to the gym, meet the guys for lunch, and then we did some light shopping as we walked home and parted ways. It was like a little socialist utopia. We all lived at the same level and even if we wanted to, could not strive for more (we are all Christian too).

We found out what happens when women in isolated groups have no stress, no envy, no yearning for more, just a gratefulness that they are able to be with their husbands on this deployment. There was very little drama and the other three families all left the country expecting another baby.

Feminism is all about MORE - it feeds one of the most difficult sins for women to turn away from - coveting.

Blogger Student in Blue February 12, 2015 5:47 PM  

@Nate
Where does this idiotic notion that people that don't work have no social lives come from?

It comes from, in my experience, a heavy intertwining of work and social life. That is, when the majority of people you hang out with is only from work, and I've been seeing it all the time among my coworkers.

Anonymous Stingray February 12, 2015 5:50 PM  

But I no more know how to do that than I know how to respond to my colleagues

You teach her that he calling to be a wife and a mother transcends that longing to be in the male world. That just adding that simple feminine presence willl alter what you so admire about it. That, surprisingly, by being feminine and following her calling that she will be far more welcome in that world of men than by trying to break into it in any feminist fashion.

We've both had the experience of being welcomed in certain situations with men and I bet that your experience is much the same as mine. By learning, listening and partaking wisely, we are welcomed. We can do that as mothers and wives. We just have to know when we are welcome and when to help the men be themselves with other men (cook, clean, etc) and when to wisely stay the heck out of the way. Teach your daughter that by learning to be a fully feminine woman, she will be able to witness more of the world of men than she would ever see in attempting to be pseudo man.

Helping men is the key to what you are looking to teach your daughter. Using her brains that she undoubtably has to help will bring her more respect and admiration than anything else. She shouldn't do it to gain these things, but they will be a likely natural recourse.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 5:52 PM  

"That is, when the majority of people you hang out with is only from work, and I've been seeing it all the time among my coworkers."

and maybe there are individuals who are sad enough to live this way... but my experience is... you don't usually work with your friends. People at work.. are the idiots you work with. You don't want to hang out with the outside of work.

friends are neighbors... buddies with similar hobbies you met through those hobbies... or church.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 5:56 PM  

"You teach her that he calling to be a wife and a mother transcends that longing to be in the male world."

its a lot easier than that. You just show her the thousands of examples of super career girls who dumped their career the instant staying home and popping out babies became an option.

Anonymous Stickwick February 12, 2015 5:57 PM  

Thank you, Stingray. That helps a lot with regard to what to tell my daughter. I guess there's not much I can say to my colleagues, because I strongly suspect they're operating from a different perspective, which is competitiveness.

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 6:05 PM  

" If you think about the billions of people who have ever lived, and the fact that maybe 10 to 100 historical names are immediately recognizable to the vast majority of people living today, the notion that making a name for yourself matters collapses."

It's about making a name for your self in your lifetime, not for future generations.

Women should focus on childbearing if that's what fulfills them, not because its supposedly good for society. The same metric is applied to men. And the notion men and women can't both have a career and a family is absurd. They can if they want.

Too many of you are participating in a religious circle jerk.

Anonymous Eric the Red February 12, 2015 6:05 PM  

After Omega: "With the changing divorce laws and rulings regarding alimony, women now risk being left without any income."

As per the rules of this blog, I call on you to back that up. In point of fact, the divorce laws for the vast bulk of this country are so misandrous, so onerous against the man, that suicide rates for divorced men have risen. Most such men see no way out from a situation in which the woman uses the State as a surrogate male to punish her ex for the rest of his life.

Yes, a real male has to man up, and also find a Christian woman that bears not the slightest resemblance to the typical American feminazi. However, most young single males will still hesitate to marry in a leftist totalitarian state called the USSA.

Read it and weep....

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 6:10 PM  

"So, you tell a modern intelligent woman that the best purpose she has is to forget law school and have six kids, out of which only the boys will go on to law school and the girls will go on to likewise produce only male law students, etc. and she's going to think she's supposed to be shutting out generations of women from doing anything but producing children. The males, meanwhile, will go on to make names and careers for themselves, while the women are nobodies and all but forgotten. I've heard this many times, and have no idea how to respond to it"

The response is simple:

"The people telling you that are idiots. Do what you want.

Anonymous Eric the Red February 12, 2015 6:15 PM  

"Hank TR Too": Too many of you are participating in a religious circle jerk.

Obviously yet another leftist troll on this blog, spouting the typical banal leftist meme: "You can have it all baby, oh and by the way, religion is for dummies."

Blogger SirHamster February 12, 2015 6:15 PM  

And the notion men and women can't both have a career and a family is absurd. They can if they want.

I'm sure all of those lonely cat ladies will be ecstatic to learn that they have what they want.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 6:27 PM  

"It's about making a name for your self in your lifetime, not for future generations. "

No fool. Its about putting food on the table.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 6:29 PM  

"And the notion men and women can't both have a career and a family is absurd. They can if they want. "

So... what you're saying is... you really suck at math.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 12, 2015 6:31 PM  

The women are too weak, too brainwashed, there is little hope of retaking or stomping out a satanic worldview that worships death.

Don't worry! One day the kids might revolt; burn those resumes, rip up their degrees and walk away from their debt - no matter the repercussions.

OpenID cailcorishev February 12, 2015 6:39 PM  

In a way, I could understand if women in 1950 envied men their careers. After all, they didn't know what really went on in those offices and factories. Maybe the guys were working a couple hours and partying the rest of the day, and that's why they kept it to themselves.

But now that women have been having "careers" for a couple generations, shouldn't they have figured out that regular work -- especially the kind of jobs they do -- mostly sucks? Shouldn't the experiment be over by now, with women saying, "Yeah, never mind, we think we'll pass on punching a clock for 40-50 hours a week and watching the government take a third of it, for a jerk boss who's so annoying we need to stop for a couple drinks on the way home so we don't yell at our families. You guys can have it back. We'll be at home, ironing your shirts while we watch our favorite TV shows. Please?"

It's not the career that is envied. It's the recognition for it.

Interesting. It doesn't seem to me that the amount and quality of recognition available from a typical job compares to Mother's Day alone, but I could be missing something.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 12, 2015 6:42 PM  

Discard,

I don't think most men were sleeping around for that long. You tend to pick up not so wonderful diseases when you do that. I know this is glossed over today, but the stories of someone dying of syphilis were notable because they were rare.

Nate,

and all of them will consider themselves to be "having it all".

Not necessarily. They may do it out of necessity, but your are painting today's world on a future one. Things will be different and women will do what they must, not necessarily what they enjoy. Note that the Biblical section talking of that noted it was a curse and that the women were desperate. Polygamy is a rare thing for most in society. A few leading men may get multiple wives, but eventually enough wives will want exclusivity again to settle for that.

I have no idea on the time table for the start or end of the transition.

BoysMom,

I was responding to the statement that a man should marry someone a decade younger. That would require a 13 year old in your example. I am not completely convinced that waiting until even 23 is ideal for most. Our modern system is far off the norm of societies that considered boys to be men at 13. Allowing for "teenagers" is idiotic and a big part of the problem. Marrying at 13 is likely not the normal answer, but waiting at least a decade more doesn't have much merit either.

You also have no idea about the intensity of the sexual drive in a young man from 16-23. That is a LONG WAY OFF for most.

The Apostle Paul said it was better to marry than burn with passion. I think he had a point. You may not want to commit the mirror mistake that men should stuff the urge that long in many/most cases.

Stickwick,

You are the scientist, right? Do you think your daughter will take what you say more than what you do? Just curious. Time will tell either way.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 6:43 PM  

Hank TR Too wants Western Civilization to collapse, and never revive. Given his premises, everything he says is right.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 12, 2015 6:44 PM  

One big problem here is that we are about to have a third generation of women who were raised by single mothers.

These women have no model for living with a husband at all. Consequently they have no clue how to have a marriage.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 6:47 PM  

" Polygamy is a rare thing for most in society."

indeed. never the less that is where the arrow is pointing. The idea that women will be miserable just slights women.

they will not be. Some will but some always are. For the most part... they'll be fine.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 12, 2015 6:54 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 12, 2015 6:56 PM  

Polygamy is a rare thing for most in society.

There is an argument to be made that polygamy is our default state.

According to geneticists, Throughout the full 80,000 or so years of our species 80% of all women have reproduced. Only 40% of all men have.

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 7:00 PM  

"No fool. Its about putting food on the table."

And in your case, it' all about learning one day how to follow a thread on the internet. You didn't reproduce...did you????

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 7:06 PM  

Brad Andrews: My assumption is that there was much less extramarital sex going on in past centuries comes from what I know of the consequences of promiscuity today. Before modern medicine could mitigate the costs of random sex, those who screwed widely and often would have to pay those costs. Were rates of venereal disease in 1800 higher than herpes rates today? Were bastardy rates higher? If not, sexual restraint was the reason.
I understand that, in Western Europe, men typically married in their mid-twenties, women in their early twenties. Somehow, they controlled themselves from the age of 16, and the poor village tramp was there to take the edge off things if necessary. Fucking like a college student was simply not an option for most people. Take away modern medicine and sexual moderation would make a swift comeback among the more intelligent.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 12, 2015 7:09 PM  

There is an argument to be made that polygamy is our default state.

According to geneticists, Throughout the full 80,000 or so years of our species 80% of all women have reproduced. Only 40% of all men have.


Some claim that. I remain skeptical.

Either way though, it could only happen if so many men were getting killed off in wars and doing other dangerous things. Having a bunch of males without a connection like marriage is not a great idea. All that energy will go somewhere, and no one could play first person shooters 500 years ago!

I do look at the Biblical examples as one view. A few instances of polygamy are noted, but they were still the exception. David had many wives, but Uriah only had a single one, for example.

Anonymous Viidad February 12, 2015 7:09 PM  

"I think the Ilk need to have a contest to see who can produce the most descendants."

I'm going to win, mofos.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 12, 2015 7:10 PM  

Discard,

You make my point then about why having most men wait until 25+ is not a bright idea.

Anonymous Viidad February 12, 2015 7:13 PM  

As for divorce stats, since when are statistics completely deterministic?

Folks hate Calvinism because they feel it's awful that God might CONTROL EVERYONE... but then will often turn around and talk about how risky it is to get married because STATISTICS SAY...

Look, you make your own choices. Statistics say all kinds of things. MPAI. Pattern recognition goes a long ways towards avoiding divorce, as does being a strong man. If you listen to what "everybody" says and don't pick a good gal for a wife, you'll be higher risk; but even then, many men can avoid problems by having a spine.

Women desire to be led by a good and strong man. If they cry over something dumb, don't get in a big argument. Just shrug and tell them to go to bed and get a good night's sleep.

Anonymous Discard February 12, 2015 7:14 PM  

Brad Andrews: Agreed, but 20 is too young, as a rule. Are you familiar with the Hajnal Line?

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 7:15 PM  

"I'm going to win, mofos."

He's got two on me... and that's saying something.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 7:16 PM  

" A few instances of polygamy are noted, but they were still the exception."

it was common enough that God made laws about it.

Blogger Vox February 12, 2015 7:24 PM  

And the notion men and women can't both have a career and a family is absurd. They can if they want.

No, they can't. You're clearly uninformed with regards to the relevant statistics. I deleted your last comment because you are being obnoxious. Do it again and I'll start spamming you.

Anonymous A Visitor February 12, 2015 7:31 PM  

" Society doesn't need you "finding yourself" by jumping on the ALPHA carousel for ten years, then jumping off and trying to stick the landing with BETA in the three-year fertility window you've left yourself. Society doesn't need you trying to prove you're just as good as a low-performing, ineffectual man. Society needs you to be a) a woman, b) a wife, and c) a mother."

What women do not understand is that (and I'm only speaking personally here though I suspect it very well could be aggregate amongst us as well) we, as men, view a women who has multiple sexual partners as a risky investment at best. Every man you've slept with (i.e. the higher your N count is) degrades you in our eyes, both from a moral standpoint (will you honor your wedding vows, not cheat on us?) to a practical standpoint (will you really be good wife AND mother material?). Marry early to a quality man, if you can. It'll save you a) from riding the alpha carousel and b) from that nagging sensation as you're going to hit the wall.

Having it all is one of the biggest lies perpetuated on society in the 20th century, as it affects women which in turn affects men. Case in point: my parents were married by 25, my brother by 26, my sister by 26, and that only leaves myself (wrong side of 25), and a younger sister who is post-21, early 20's. How many women are going to go into their 30s not married? You really can't have it all. Eventually nature takes its course and you can not have children. There are probably very few couples who genuinely enjoy not having children. The rest that say they enjoy it are lying and my heart goes out to them. We have to start to turn this tide, at the local level.

"You forgot #LikeAGirl" Hahhaha!

"He's talking to you, Barnhardt." She was born in the '70s. Her time has most likely passed.

"Didn't the same crowd that brought us #LikeAGirl also bring us #mansplaining?"

Wasn't mansplainning a parody?

"This is the new reality timeline. You have to find marriagable men by end of college at 25. Marry by 26. First kid by 27. Delay career until after 35 after 3 kids. It is actually better to have major dreams and travelling within the context of marriage and kids."

Right.

"your sending off a bunch of poor young men to slaughter, to live lives of misery in either marriage or a > 50% chance of divorce." The 50% chance of divorce has been debunked. That was the rate back in the 1980's. It's dropped since then. Still, a revisal of divorce law that would make it more equitable may serve as a deterrent to those considering divorce in the first place. Take one of the stories from Drudge today that 17% of blacks between the (IIRC) 2-14 age range, something like that, live with both parents.

"The constant lording over how much SHE knows when in reality it doesn't remotely compared to the spouse who doesn't have as many sheets of paper...and debt." The exception does not disprove the rule: best friends are husband wife, we've know each other since teens. Husband went to college, wife transferred to join him, they got married right before our junior year started. Husband did a year in Afghanistan, got his bachelor's shortly thereafter, now runs a conversion optimization firm. Wife is an MD, OBGYN, going on her 2nd year of residency soon. She's never lorded it over him, thankfully, and doubt she would, not her style. Nonetheless, aggregately that generally does not bode well.

"What changes that? Good women, of course. Just because there's a lot of bad ones in our society doesn't mean that you can't find good ones."' They're hard to find but worth it. A buddy in LA found one and I may have one on the line myself. They take time but they're worth it.

Anonymous A Visitor February 12, 2015 7:33 PM  

"Education is valuable in and of itself, but it does not have to be gotten from college." Sometimes the most valuable people are those that never went to college: think Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, your blue collar folk whom without the world wouldn't survive the next oil change. OJT, if done right, IMHO can supplant a formal education any day of the week.

"The Duggars have had enough children to start their own nation. Now that's survival of the fittest in action. Who cares whether they are weird or people hate them? They're the future." People probably hate them because a) having large families is not the "right thing" to do per societal norms (speaks volumes about our republic's society) b) they're Christian. Having said that as Vox often says, "The future belongs to those who show up."

"she's also disturbingly masculine." She is and I'm sure that's attractive to some men. Perhaps they see her as a woman who is an embodiment of what Western women once were aggregately and, therefore, worth marrying. Please note, that's intended as disrespect towards any of the quality women amongst the Ilk or the Ilk's families. Can't even believe I had to say that. It is pretty pathetic the state of the average American male nowadays: feminized, cowardly, weak (physically, mentally, morally).

"In response, she claimed that she's wholly unsuited for matrimony, and almost seemed proud of it. She seems far more interested in martyring herself and obtaining sainthood than in submitting to a husband and participating in the continuation of Western civilization." That's pretty dead on accurate Stickwick.

"Unless it's a hairy persian named Roosh." Even then Roosh is just destroying himself the same. Months ago, maybe it was on AG, read that Roosh felt like something was missing despite all the sex he's had.

"She's the sort that historically belonged in a nunnery. And would be happiest there." Agreed, Vox. There still is time for her to join one of the more hardcore orders. Then again, perhaps she is doing best as a lay person. Who knows?

"Just yesterday I interviewed a gorgeous 23 year old woman for an office job, homeschooled, not interested in career, still living at home, just hoping to provide for herself until she finds a good man to start a family with." Location, denomination?

Anonymous A Visitor February 12, 2015 7:34 PM  

"I see this whole thing as a giant trend marching women straight into polygamy. Several working women sharing one guy.

There really is no other way this ends."

What about a pendulum swinging back? Or, if the pendulum is broken people carry it back to monogamy and women marrying young.

"Just out of curiosity, would you ilk consider an action that would've resulted in the death penalty back then but doesn't now a legitimate reason for divorce? (Lev. 20:27, for example.)"

I personally would not due to Catholic teaching on divorce. That'd be a bad situation, nonetheless, to be in.

"Clearly, the level of promiscuity that exists now did not exist in the past, before birth control, legal abortion, and penicillin"

Slut shaming also played a factor.

"I know quite a few Christian families who are emphasizing the prioritizing of college and careers for their daughters. They know not what they do."

Exactly! It's amazing what one discovers even about one's faith after looking into, despite having gone to Christian schools for grade and high school. Why would it be a surprise that they wouldn't make the same mistake re: women and their role?

One of the nice things about knowing people from outside the U.S. is you get a true feel of how off we are in some, important respects. For example, a Honduran buddy has no problem with saying, "A woman's proper place is the kitchen." Or two women I knew from France and Spain who actually seemed to be willing to submit to the authority of men (their faith may have played a part, too).

"American women would sneak into POW camps holding German prisoners in the U.S. during WW2." This is the first I've heard of that. If that's true, no reason to doubt that, they should've been sentenced to prison for giving aid and comfort to the enemy (the WII equivalent). Anyone know if that was punishable by death back then?

"Women hate to be left out -- that envy is a good part of what's driving feminism." Then you have family members who have swallowed feminism hook, line, and sinker and wonder, "How in the hell are we going to get them to snap out of it?"

"even in your Golden Years after you retire... what will your career have mattered to those left behind? When you retire and quit your job, whomever you work for will go on pretty much as if you never existed, unless you are an entrepreneur or work for a family-owned business, of course. Within a few weeks, people will barely remember you existed."

How many of both sexes don't realize that? As far as careers, keep your eyes on the prize: family, progeny, and most importantly, Heaven. Temporally do what you can in your career the best you can but do not let it become your life.

Anonymous A Visitor February 12, 2015 7:34 PM  

"Careers aren't that exciting. Mostly, it's a combination of tedium and stress, with only a few peak moments of any kind of significant satisfaction." As my father said, there's only one aspect of his that he likes and he's been doing it as long as I've been alive.

"I think the Ilk need to have a contest to see who can produce the most descendants." Let me find a quality woman, give me ten years, and I'll see if you can beat my ten. ALLONS!

"Ask yourself, if a relative died and left a trust fund that would provide you with $1000/week cash (or whatever you consider a comfortable income), would you continue going to your job?"

Cail, I'm in the beginning stage of my current career path and looking to do something else. If I had $1000/week cash (or whatever) of I won the Powerball jackpot tomorrow (currently over $400 million), I'd just drop out of the workforce, get a solid financial advisor, buy $1 mil in gold, $1 mil in silver, $ 1 mil in lead, keep $3 mil in cash, and do something with the rest. To any woman who seriously believes men genuinely LOVE their careers, you are sorely sorely mistaken.

"I would wager the word "saint" is applied to mothers more than any other group." Apparently, Zoidberg's mother was.

"My problem is that, to some extent, I suffer from this envy. Not in a hateful way, but in a longing sort of way." We all do, Stickwick! Some of just envy different things. Case in point: I envy my dad, brother, sister-in-law, sister and brother-in-law. They've got it together better than me. Just give it to God and keep going.

To quote Three Dog, "And now some music!"

Protip to the Ilk: avoid your comment getting chewed up by Blogger by using Notepad in Windows or TextEdit on OS X before dropping it into the box.

Anonymous A Visitor February 12, 2015 7:37 PM  

That should read as not intended as disrespect. My apologies for the error.

Anonymous Hank TR Too February 12, 2015 7:37 PM  

"No, they can't. You're clearly uninformed with regards to the relevant statistics."

How do we explain the millions that in fact do?

Blogger Brad Andrews February 12, 2015 7:42 PM  

Discard,

Are you familiar with the Hajnal Line?

I have never heard of it. I am still not convinced 20 is the earliest a man should marry. Focus men on being adults even earlier has merit in addition to providing a Biblical sexual outlet. We don't have the balance right on that today, but the principle remains.

Nate,

it was common enough that God made laws about it.

Laws cover many things. That doesn't mean they are all common. Most men did not have 2 or more wives. Supporting them would have been a challenge as well.

It could be easier today for one many to have many wives if all or most of them worked, but that is not likely sustainable for the long run. The principle of one man and one woman being the optimum remains. Men fall short of the plan in many ways, but that doesn't make it not worth aiming at the plan.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 7:56 PM  

Laws cover many things. That doesn't mean they are all common. Most men did not have 2 or more wives.

You missed the point. Being common; i.e., being an element in society didn't mean that most people participated it. You could say that cloistered orders were common in primarily Catholic societies, for example. That doesn't mean that most people were monks or nuns, just that for the majority of the history of the Catholic faith, they've existed.

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 12, 2015 8:10 PM  

I've heard that polygamy was the exception during OT times but don't know where to read about it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Anonymous tiredofitall February 12, 2015 8:14 PM  

I think the Ilk need to have a contest to see who can produce the most descendants.

"I'm going to win, mofos." - Viidad

Or die trying, right?

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 8:18 PM  

Student in Blue - were you dropped on your head as a child? repeatedly?

I gave no justification. I gave a reason.

I didn't bring up the % of women who initiate divorces. I didn't even bring up the divorce rate (which if you would stop holding your breath you would have realized was a better point for you to focus on). If the divorce rate is about 40% and 30% of them are initiated by men, then that gives about a 12% chance that a woman will be divorced by her husband. Now, you may not think that that is significant (you probably don't since you didn't think 30% was) but lots of people would.

Percentages aside, (i.e. I didn't bring them up), my point was about the fact that an increasing number of jurisdictions do not recognize alimony any more - just child support.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 12, 2015 8:27 PM  

All that energy will go somewhere, and no one could play first person shooters 500 years ago!

No, they worked themselves to death as peasants.

Look its called being a Beta Male for a reason.

A more recent example, and one with very good numbers, was in Soviet Russia right after the Revolution. The Bolsheviks put all of Engels hideous ideas about life and family into effect. Divorce on demand, Abortion on demand. The Soviet policy (at first) was that all children belonged to the state, consequently all children would be raised by the state.

The result was that fifteen percent of the men started getting sixty percent of the women.

Unwanted babies flooded an orphanage system that war ravaged Russia couldn't support.

I leave it to you to look up how many of the males assumed drone status.

The Soviets revered course in couple of years, starting by making divorce all but impossible to attain.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 12, 2015 8:31 PM  

China's in the trough of that cycle right now too.

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 8:57 PM  

"I've heard that polygamy was the exception during OT times but don't know where to read about it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?"

Seriously? You're telling me you're a christian woman and you don't know about Leah and Rachael?

Blogger Nate February 12, 2015 8:59 PM  

"How do we explain the millions that in fact do?"

They only exist in your otherwise empty head.

Anonymous After Omega February 12, 2015 9:01 PM  

Eric the Red - " As per the rules of this blog, I call on you to back that up."

heh. okay.

Now remember, my statement was about the changing divorce laws and rulings regarding alimony .

http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/alimony-states
"Many community property states do not allow permanent or temporary alimony. "
"Rehabilitative alimony is typically available, but rarely awarded, in community property states. If awarded, the duration of alimony payments is usually quite short and the amount rather small."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2011/07/12/in-many-states-alimony-reform-has-gone-too-far/2/
"In addition, there is an alimony cap of either $2500 per month or 20 percent of the payor’s monthly gross income, depending on which is less." - ooooooh 20%, easy street for life.
"Payments cannot exceed three years, " well, maybe not for life.
"unless the payee has a disability that prevents her from becoming self-supporting" oh wait, there's hope for the blue faced student. she would totally get the full ride for life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_law_in_Sweden
"The fundamental idea is that divorce effectively severs all forms of economic relations between spouses.[9] Each spouse is therefore individually responsible for his or her own financial support after divorce. Maintenance is seldom granted except in certain circumstances"

https://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2013/06/15/divorce-custody-child-support-and-alimony-in-denmark/
"Even if a party wasn’t working during the marriage, that is not relevant for determining alimony. If a person is able to work, he or she is expected to work rather than collect alimony"

The concept of being 'maintained in the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed' is disappearing. In the US, Canada and Europe.

..........

Eric the Red - " Most such men see no way out from a situation in which the woman uses the State as a surrogate male to punish her ex for the rest of his life. "

Now, as per the rules of this blog, and the power of GreySkull, I call on you to back that up. Especially the 'most' part. +50% please.





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