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Tuesday, February 10, 2015

The Lord of Hate engages

This may explain why the pinkshirts are so remarkably shy about engaging with the Evil Legion of Evil:
Dude, please. You’ve got 45 fucking Hugo nominations. Disqualify would be saying your opinion doesn’t count because you are a white male and have privilege. Shit. Looking at that picture you’ve got Santa Privilege.

Instead the fact that one dude has 45 nominations is a pretty damned good indicator that your little pond has gone stagnant. That isn’t disqualification. That is stating the obvious. I said you guys were a tiny little clique, but I didn’t realize it was that inbred. That is something so absurd that when I learned your blog had 28 it blew my mind. It was so ridiculous that when somebody else pointed out that you actually have FORTY FIVE in total, I didn’t believe them. I scoffed at first. Even me, the guy who started this big open public conversation we’re finally having about the Hugos being broken, thought to myself, naw, that’s impossible. There’s no freaking way they’d give some individual 45 nominations and 9 Hugos.

Nope.

So, then when a guy with 45 Hugo noms writes about me, what… What are you up to now? Six? Eight articles about Sad Puppies? And in said articles misconstrues damn near everything, and repeatedly assures his readers, don’t worry, comrades, the system is fine, system is our friend, and only bad people work outside of system… Well, that’s just fishy.

It isn’t disqualification to note that somebody benefiting directly from a broken system might be in favor of said system. In your case it is just extra pathetic and kind of sad. It also explains why you seem to actually believe that I’m driven by a desire to get a trophy. I really don’t want your people’s approval and I truly don’t give a shit about me winning (and don’t worry, if I’m nominated again, I will prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt).

“No wonder you won’t engage”

Engage what? You specifically? Your bullshit is no different than the other narrative bullshit, so I respond to them in mass. Honestly Glyer 45 Hugos, internet arguing is a spectator sport, frankly your 28 Hugo Fanzine doesn’t have enough traffic for me to justify the time responding there (Which is why, I’m going to cut and paste this response over to Facebook when I’m done).

I’m kind of busy engaging the entire SJW internet to spend much time worrying about your bad Shakespeare. But it shows what an interesting selective memory you’ve got there. I’ve written in depth and rather openly about what I’m doing. You write about it and make shit up to explain to your clique what their narrative should be. I’ve repeatedly written since clarifying things, but you just ignore, and make more shit up about what I *really* meant.

And I didn’t bother with your last one, because I don’t think Dogberry was compiling links to actual quotes of his opponents being assholes.

But while I’m thinking about it, here is an interesting thought on “engaging”. Do you realize that in all this time, and all this controversy, not a single one of my opponents has actually taken the time to contact me to speak about this directly? I’ve been contacted by a bunch of people who are secretly on my side, and I’ve been contacted by many moderate fence sitters and people genuinely concerned for the future of the Hugos. But the side opposed to what I'm doing? None. None of the interview places, none of the award winning fanzines, none of the SJW bloggers with their fingers on the pulse of fandom. Zip. Zero. No engagement, just ignore what I actually say and do, and make up bullshit instead.
Now, I've talked to Mike Glyer via email and he actually strikes me as being on the saner and more reasonable side of Pink SF. I may not share his taste in authors, but he does a credible job of keeping fandom informed of what is going on in the science fiction world. Nothing wrong with that. He doesn't have 45 Hugo nominations because he lobbied for them, but because people in fandom liked what he was doing. Unlike the Scalziettes, he clearly recognizes that Brad wants to save the Hugo Awards from themselves and that I could not be any less interested in winning approval from the SF rabbits.

And therein lies the problem. If even the more reasonable and clear-sighted people on the other side, even those among the very few willing to communicate directly with us, are unable to see what we, and a considerable number of science fiction and fantasy readers, very clearly see as a genre-killing cancer at work, then there isn't any form of rational compromise possible.

Which, of course, may well be the case. If so, time and technology are on our side. It's not going to be us eradicating them, but rather, the fact that the gatekeepers who formerly enabled them are going out of business. We'll know the game is over when those who attacked us as vile and so forth come crawling to us, hat in hand, begging for the opportunities that they denied us when they were in power.

Not that it is all about revenge. I've never cared about cons and fandom. It's not my scene. And perhaps that is what many of them hate most about us. We legitimately don't care what they do, what they think, or what they say.

UPDATE: We have detente! Larry has come out firmly in favor of reading books for which one votes and Mike concurs:
I don’t have to say this but I think he means it. If the rest of the people behind Sad Puppies 3 take his statement to heart, and don’t just treat it as some kind of dogwhistle, they will end up enriching the award’s representation instead of merely doing a hack on it.
How fortunate that everyone supporting Rabid Puppies has read Tom Kratman, Steve Rzasa, and John C. Wright. And anyone who hasn't, the situation is easily rectified given the links provided.

Labels: ,

51 Comments:

Blogger Krul February 10, 2015 4:13 PM  

Larry Correia is responding to this comment:

Mike Glyer - Disqualify, disqualify, disqualify! And to think, you used to to disdain these tactics, too.

No wonder you won’t engage — an advocate of Sad Puppies has no counter to someone who says people should have read the things these nominate — and what’s more, they should believe what they nominate is worth an award.


"Disqualify, disqualify, disqualify"... now where have I heard that before?

Anonymous Leonidas February 10, 2015 4:14 PM  

Doing our little part for superversion over here...

My fledgling publishing company has a new short story out for pre-order on Amazon. We made it a hard rule when we started the company that we won't publish anything "subversive" even though not everything we publish necessarily has to be "superversive." So the new short story... not particularly superversive.

Yet I woke up this morning to find that, in Amazon's Kindle rankings, it was pulling ahead of a little gem entitled "Seed of the White Wolf (BBW Interracial Pregnancy Billionaire Romance)." Yes, we're beating out the bestiality porn!

And as a brand new publisher with little content, it's not exactly like we're doing amazing sales either. Takeaway for the readers: it is ridiculously easy to beat them. All it takes is to show up and try.

OpenID malcolmthecynic February 10, 2015 4:15 PM  

I think this comment (in response to a guy claiming that you think that black people aren't fully human and that throwing acid in women's faces isn't a real problem) is even better: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/02/09/sad-puppies-3-update/#comment-106976

Anonymous Stilicho February 10, 2015 4:46 PM  

wait, didn't he actually "accuse" the admitted savage of being more "human"?

Blogger Migly February 10, 2015 4:47 PM  

I understand why Vox considers me a pinkshirt, though if I'm in that camp it's only because the besieging army has catapulted my body over the walls.... I think in ordinary circumstances they would not let me in.

Blogger Vox February 10, 2015 5:00 PM  

I understand why Vox considers me a pinkshirt, though if I'm in that camp it's only because the besieging army has catapulted my body over the walls.

I suddenly feel like Sir Launcelot... sorry, sorry, I do get carried away. I have to admit, I don't actually know much about your preferences in SF. If I falsely characterized you, I do apologize.

Anonymous Giuseppe February 10, 2015 5:04 PM  

We legitametely don't care what they do, what they think, or what they say.

Precisely. This is both our greatest strength, and in a way, also our greatest weakness (or at least, it has been mine).

Anonymous patrick kelly February 10, 2015 5:15 PM  

"If your lips don’t move while you read, it really doesn’t take that long to make it through the shorts, and most of us have already read the suggested novels."

Hah !...now that's some award winning cruelty right there...or at least it should be....who gives out those awards anyway?

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 10, 2015 5:18 PM  

If even the more reasonable and clear-sighted people on the other side, even those among the very few willing to communicate directly with us, are unable to see what we, and a considerable number of science fiction and fantasy readers, very clearly see as a genre-killing cancer at work, then there isn't any form of rational compromise possible.

A more humble person might wonder if what he thinks he sees is in fact there.

The Kids These Days are, if polling it to be trusted, more "pink" in social attitudes than us Old Fogies. (I'm 48, so I can say that.)

I would be curious as to where on the pink / blue side the YA market is. Curious because that's growing by leaps and bounds and that's where the Hugo voters of 20 years from now will come from.

Blogger S1AL February 10, 2015 5:25 PM  

Kids and young adults are *always* more liberal, because they have less life experience.

Anonymous DT February 10, 2015 5:28 PM  

engaging with the Evil Legion of Evil:

I always preferred the term Guild of Calamitous Intent.

Blogger YIH February 10, 2015 5:32 PM  

Krul:
Another little gem from Correia:
At this point you’ve shoved so much stuff up there that I don’t know if you could fit another Hugo. How do those gerbils breathe?
Insert obligatory Richard Gere joke here.

Blogger Marissa February 10, 2015 5:37 PM  

I would be curious as to where on the pink / blue side the YA market is. Curious because that's growing by leaps and bounds and that's where the Hugo voters of 20 years from now will come from.

More necrobestial love triangles and redone fairy tales than there are now?

Blogger Chris Scena February 10, 2015 5:39 PM  

Chris Gerrib,

Can't remember who said it (a little research says it is attributed to many over the years in many forms) and this is not a direct quote, but I think this bears mention:

"If you are young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are middle-aged and not a conservative, you have no brain."

No shock that all those young people start pink. Exposure to the real world (working for what you want, paying taxes, life isn't fair) and they start turning more blue. At least the smart ones do.

Blogger Marissa February 10, 2015 5:43 PM  

Number 15 on Kindle's Science Fiction and Fantasy:

Bear Seeking Bride: Travis: (BBW Mail Order Bride Paranormal Shape Shifter Romance) (Bear Canyon Brides Book 1)

Shudder.

Anonymous Leonidas February 10, 2015 6:03 PM  

Number 15 on Kindle's Science Fiction and Fantasy:

Bear Seeking Bride: Travis: (BBW Mail Order Bride Paranormal Shape Shifter Romance) (Bear Canyon Brides Book 1)

Shudder.


New target to beat.

Blogger Vox February 10, 2015 6:03 PM  

A more humble person might wonder if what he thinks he sees is in fact there.

No, not when those who deny it repeatedly demonstrate themselves to be liars and deceivers. I'm not one of those liable to fail the Soloman Asch test. I know what I see is there.

I would be curious as to where on the pink / blue side the YA market is.

I would assume heavily Pink. Boys are playing video games and women are intellectually retreating to either kiddy lit or retarded porn. Neither men nor boys are reading Twilight and Hunger Games.

Anonymous Daniel February 10, 2015 6:05 PM  

The Kids These Days are, if polling it to be trusted, more "pink" in social attitudes than us Old Fogies.

YA generally trends liberal, and has historically done so - remember the Pinballs, VC Andrews or whatever the hell that was, and The Outsiders? To put it bluntly, it is because kids are quite naturally selfish and stupid. Most of them grow out of it by the time they have to make money and pay serious taxes.

In fact, the first blue YA novel I ever read was The Sleeping Dragon, and it was a damn shock to the system it was so outside of the norm.

Daniel Pinkwater's Young Adult Novel was a send-up of the muddle-headed stereotypical nonsense that tends to mark the YA market. I wouldn't use it much as a barometer for what they'll read as grown-ups.

If anything, they'll split off into a liberal and conservative faction and fight over whose adoration for Harry Potter is based on more sound first principles.

Anonymous Earl February 10, 2015 6:11 PM  

I read the letter and the female captive in Syria wrote today and could not understand most of what the hell she was saying because she does not write in my language. yes we both speak English. Perhaps SJWs can Not understand us Evil Bastards in the same way

Blogger S1AL February 10, 2015 6:16 PM  

Interesting side-note: YA tie-in fiction actually tends to lean fairly conservative, even in comparison to is adult counterparts. See: Jedi Academy.

Anonymous Daniel February 10, 2015 6:29 PM  

I wish Mike Glyer had a thousand Hugos. He's a better writer and more coherent about the genre than any of the last decades fiction winners. Despite his blind spots, he's done a remarkable job of chronicling the SF publishing industry, even if he has pretty much missed the decent original stories of the past five years or so.

Having said, that, those blind spots are doozies, and the fact that he was upset that the SFWA got rid of their Bulletin staff...and yet continues to trust the ones who made it happen, is what's going to eventually get him in trouble.

He seems amused and baffled by the straightforward Larry Correia. He should be worrying less about Correia and more about what he can possibly do to keep him from being shunned by McCreepy, McRapey, Delany & Sons Transgendered Woman Power, Inc. Because that would probably sting.

Ask Mike Resnick.

Anonymous LLC February 10, 2015 6:40 PM  

VD, according to my wife (who teaches), the biggest problem in getting books to read is finding something decent for them to read. Huge swathes of YA fiction right now is pink and unappealing for boys. When she gets her hands on something good, the boys (at least some of them) tend to devour it.

Blogger Krul February 10, 2015 7:08 PM  

OT: Anti-Defamation League attacks GamerGate

According to the ADF's brochure, teachers of grades 11-12 are instructed to show students a video of Anita Sarkeesian's TED talk and have them read her article from the NY Times. They are also divided into small groups and instructed to list "ways that sexism is perpetuated in gaming" and to answer the question "What can we do about it?"

Anonymous Leonidas February 10, 2015 7:27 PM  

Neither men nor boys are reading Twilight and Hunger Games.

My wife and I were discussing this after we watched the last Hunger Games movie. She asked my what I thought, to which I gave the honest answer, "OK but nowhere near as amazing as everyone seems to think."

Part of my explanation is that the themes of the movie, while interesting, are seriously dumbed down versions of themes that have been prevalent in hard/deep SFF for a long time - at least in the blue version. But now that it's dumbed down enough for the YA market, most of today's seriously undereducated adults are actually able to grasp the concepts and/or pay attention to it, so it goes mainstream. In a way it's good - there are ideas in that series that really need to go mainstream. But to me it's all old hat because it's so dumbed down.

Same thing with Harry Potter. Good stuff, not as great as its fandom makes it out to be. But then, there are two kinds of Harry Potter fans: the kind who grew up and moved on to deeper SFF and the kind who are perpetually stuck in the YA world. The latter is much more prevalent, and largely obese, over "educated" single cat ladies, and they're incapable of grasping anything beyond YA. I'm pretty sure I personally saw half of them at Universal Studios in the Harry Potter section a few weeks ago. Bleh.

We won't even talk about that necrobestiality series you mentioned. Bleh.

Blogger S1AL February 10, 2015 7:35 PM  

@Leonidas - I have to say that the first movie (haven't seen the others) was a notable improvement on the book. I was amazed that people were able to buy the setting as "future America." But Collins does pacing very well, which is probably why it was so popular. Thoughts?

Anonymous Leonidas February 10, 2015 7:39 PM  

@S1AL: I enjoyed the movies somewhat... but not enough, yet, to have motivated me to go back and actually read the books. Sorry, can't comment there. Other than to say that I think, in general, YA books translate better to the 2-hour movie format than non-YA novels do. The shorter length and simpler format just works better when you have such limited screen time.

Anonymous Mr Compromise February 10, 2015 8:11 PM  

he actually strikes me as being on the saner and more reasonable side of Pink SF

No Such Thing.

Blogger Rantor February 10, 2015 8:16 PM  

@Leonidas, what is the name of your story?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 10, 2015 8:29 PM  

Damn pretty soon even conservatives will realize that there is nothing to the left beyond their rhetoric. If it weren't for conservatives telling us what liberals really mean instead of what they are really saying then we would live in a sane world instead of Obama's Butt Sex Crusade.

Anonymous DaveD February 10, 2015 9:00 PM  

For the record, the Michael Vey series is doing pretty well. It features a male protagonist. He may not be an Alpha but at least boys have a well written, sci-fi story where the boy is the hero and not the bumbling side kick or the love interest. The library at the school where I teach says its more popular that Divergent or Hunger Games. The librarian even wondered aloud why it wasn't getting a movie when these other books are. I didn't have the heart to tell her.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 10, 2015 9:51 PM  

The Nick Mamatas quotes mentioned in the comments are interesting to see. I sometimes wonder if he's really some sort of deep-cover agent trying to demolish the rabbits from within, or if he's really the snark-spouting smug SJW he claims to be. After all, he's the one who covered for Requires Hate and her various sockpuppets (and still is covering for her).

Anonymous Leonidas February 10, 2015 10:00 PM  

@Rantor: not actually my story, just published by me. The story is entitled "Second Chances" by K Bethany Sawyer, a very, very old friend of mine. My wife has a story up, as well, entitled "Wishing Only Wounds the Heart." Both are short stories, which is also why they're cheap. We have a D20 campaign supplement coming out next month and we're in the process of putting together a couple of anthologies. My wife and I are both hoping to have our first novels out by the end of the year. Unlike the two stories we have out right now, my first novel *IS* explicitly superversive... but I also think it's actually a decent story. For whatever my opinion on my own story is worth.

And for what it's worth, climbing the sales ranks there... it's amazing how few sales it takes to actually get up there on the short stories sales list. Everywhere else I'm playing it up like it's a major accomplishment, but around here, well, I'm pretty sure Vox already knows just how laughable it actually is.

And that's actually the main reason I commented in the first place: to let everyone else know just how ridiculously easy it is to work the way up these lists. I mean really, stupidly, ridiculously easy. These guys are simply *NOT* selling very much, and THAT is why they're so scared of us. It's really, really laughable.

Anonymous Leonidas February 10, 2015 10:03 PM  

And FWIW, that's also all why I haven't been commenting much here lately. Because I'm putting all that together on top of my day job and running my dojo... so, busy. Very busy. But the best kind of busy. :)

Blogger bob k. mando February 10, 2015 10:20 PM  

Migly February 10, 2015 4:47 PM
I understand why Vox considers me a pinkshirt, though if I'm in that camp it's only because the besieging army has catapulted my body over the walls.... I think in ordinary circumstances they would not let me in.



you list three books as your all time favorite SF on your profile:
Doomsday Book by Connie Willis
Way Station by Clifford Simak
Borders of Infinity by Lois McMaster Bujold

with the ENTIRE scifi oeuvre to choose from ... you picked Willis and Bujold.

just so we're clear, you're saying that these works are better than Dune, Foundation, Amber, Armor, Earthsea, Starship Troopers / Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Ender, Hammer, MiddleEarth, Draka, Count to the Eschaton, Bolo, Heechee, Ardneh, Alliance-Union and Ringworld?

to name just a few?

you're Pink.



Chris Gerrib February 10, 2015 5:18 PM
The Kids These Days are, if polling it to be trusted, more "pink" in social attitudes than us Old Fogies.



well ... duh?

this ( the Pinkification of America ) has been going on since the introduction of compulsory public schooling in the late 1800s.

you've got over 100 years of data, all across the Western world.

how long is it going to take you to figure out that the Overton Window is being driven, intentionally, to the Left?

Anonymous Donn February 10, 2015 10:37 PM  

All culture for the left is about the Overton window. We need to be pushing it the other way.

Blogger Migly February 10, 2015 11:02 PM  

Bob K. Mando: If you think my preferences are pink, fine. You made me realize, however, if you ask me for my "favorites", "best sf ever", or "what I'd recommend if I was trying to interest somebody in sf" you'll get three different lists. Favorites has to do with the stories' personal emotional impact on me. Best SF ever would be something like DUNE, "'Repent Harlequin!' Said The Ticktockman", and "Who Goes There?" Stories I'd recommend to get people to read sf would be "Flowers for Algernon", "The Veldt," Clarke's "The Star," Laumer's "Long Remembered Thunder" or DOUBLE STAR.

Blogger William Hughes February 10, 2015 11:03 PM  

Way station! I'm digging that one out for a reread! Been way too long.

Blogger ray February 10, 2015 11:12 PM  

They should be fans but they want to be writers. They should be planets but they want to be stars. No wonder they demand equality.

OpenID drmauser February 10, 2015 11:18 PM  

When I reblogged at my own Wordpress the comment I made on File 770, Glyer came over and replied:

I’m glad you perceived I am mocking Sad Puppies 3. I decided mockery was the most effective tool at my disposal for awakening people to the reality that any moral or ethical basis they might claim for their choices is undercut by the fundamentally dishonest act of bloc voting for a bunch of stuff they haven’t read or seen.

On the other hand, people who have read stories by Correia or anybody else on that list and loved those works — I think their opinion is as good as any other voter’s.


Why he thinks Corriea's fans wouldn't have read Correia's works by default? I think that attitude leads to the remarks Larry made in response to him.

Maybe it's projection, he can't imagine anyone on his side reading the SP3 candidates, so he can't imagine Larry's side does either.

I replied to him : I would have to add though, that if you think voting en-bloc for works they haven’t read is unethical, you should feel similarly about the even larger, and successful act of bloc voting AGAINST works, and encouraging people to vote against them without reading them, even though they’ve been provided for free in the package. but I didn't get a direct answer, although the next day he made a head-scratchingly odd comment thanking me for conceding his point.

Blogger bob k. mando February 10, 2015 11:30 PM  

I decided mockery was the most effective tool at my disposal


Pink.

not to mention, lying about anyone advocating to vote WITHOUT reading.

Blogger Migly February 10, 2015 11:50 PM  

Bob, I've been reading this blog for two years and thought the Dread Ilk generally held themselves to a higher standard of argument than that.

I've never said Sad Puppies _advocated_ voting without reading. What I have said is that Sad Puppies argued people should vote, told people how to get a membership, how much it would cost, the benefits like access to the Hugo Voter Packet, and recommended a slate of nominees, going into all this detail without ever suggesting people ought to read and judge before nominating. And I don't think that point was lost on anybody.

I'm sure the authors involved did want people to buy and read their works. Isn't that what all author blogs are about? Once there's a whole slate, however, full of stuff you can only read if you buy back issues of Analog or the books from the publisher or Amazon... Again, the inference isn't lost on anybody that they aren't being asked to wait til they've tracked it all down before acting on the message.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 11, 2015 12:00 AM  

The Kids These Days are, if polling it to be trusted, more "pink" in social attitudes than us Old Fogies.

Of course kids are more closed-minded than us old fogies, as they generally haven't been around long enough to have reality punch gaping holes in their world view to let in the fresh air.

Anonymous Leonidas February 11, 2015 12:06 AM  

Again, the inference isn't lost on anybody that they aren't being asked to wait til they've tracked it all down before acting on the message.

It was lost on me. But then, that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

infer: deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

In other words, inferring is an active verb - an action that is performed by the listener or reader, not by the author or speaker. If you mean, on the other hand, that the Sad Puppies Team meant to imply that people should vote without reading, that's different.

But I honestly don't think that's true - I think you inadvertently used the correct word. I never, ever would have considered voting for anything I hadn't read. I'm with Correia on this one - it's just not something you have to say. And so I never inferred such a thing from any of the Sad Puppies campaigns. And I also don't think that the Evil League of Evil ever actually meant to imply any such thing.

I'm going to suggest that perhaps you are inferring such a thing where it doesn't actually exist, and that - as inferences usually do - it says more about the reader than it does about the authors. I admit that I suggest this about a person whom I'd never even heard of before today.

But never, not once, not anywhere in any of the three Sad Puppies campaigns has anyone ever suggested that anybody vote for a slate of candidates without actually reading them. Go back to the very beginning and it has always been presented as a "for your consideration" slate, heavy on the "hey, this is what we think, and we think it's a good list" but light (er, nonexistent) on the "vote the party line or else."

If you see that there, you brought it with you.

Anonymous Leonidas February 11, 2015 12:11 AM  

Once there's a whole slate, however, full of stuff you can only read if you buy back issues of Analog or the books from the publisher or Amazon...

What exactly are you trying to argue here? That anybody making a Hugo recommendation should only be able to recommend works that are available in the public domain? That's ludicrous. Almost anything that's recommended will be something that someone will have to pay to read...

Unless, you know, you visit a library. Or borrow it from a friend. Or happen to have already read it. But that applies to everything.

And by the nature of the awards, you're looking at stuff published less than 14 months ago. Tracking down back issues shouldn't be that hard - and again, that applies to ANYTHING you might nominate or recommend.

Really, man... you brought this with you and now you're just grasping at straws to assign it to the authors instead of to yourself.

Anonymous Laz February 11, 2015 12:30 AM  

OT: Wheel of Time TV pilot- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvNYIEN1vIg#t=107

Really crappy recording. Billy Zane plays one of the Forsaken. Very slow but, they have to build some kind of back story. I couldn't stand anymore talking but, would probably watch when they have some action. I'd like to see how they visualize balefire.

I wonder if they drag it out like the books how many years they could go? 40? Better yet, why don't they bring in another writer to do eleventy more books.

bonus: Produced by Billy Zane and the Moondragon sisters.

Blogger GK Chesterton February 11, 2015 1:50 AM  

@ Daniel,

I don't know if I would call Guardians of the Flame "blue" at all. I liked it but it isn't blue. And that was a loooooooooong time ago so I might be misremembering it.

@Bob K Mando,

Why Armor in your rebuttal? I read Armor and Vampires and while I viewed Vampires as better both seemed flat. I tend to be more Poe/Lovecraft in my horror tastes and I read them a long time ago. Should I read them again? I wouldn't place them with the rest of your rebuttal list.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 11, 2015 3:05 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 11, 2015 3:10 AM  

OT: What is with facebook? RT.com is reporting FB is challenging (NA) native americant name (feather not dot) for names like brown eyes. FB questions if NA's are using real/fake names. Racist FB.

Anonymous Big Bill February 11, 2015 8:33 AM  

Why do they all sound so uneducated? What's with the "dudes" and such? Does it make them feel "down wit' da hood"? Does speaking with an adult voice, with clarity and concision, feel inauthentic or mannered?

Anonymous Alexander February 11, 2015 9:14 AM  

This is absolutely not true.

I remember a post from VD that he no longer cared what you did after linking to several SJWs who were overtly stating their intention of not reading sad puppies and just giving them 'no award'. Even Scalzi got in on that with 'well obviously, I wouldn't read a book I wasn't comfortable with .'

But *I* read everything I voted for. And I will this year. Hell - the nice thing about our side is we want to read everything, do you *really* think we feel threatened by If you were a Dinosaur, my Love? The absolute best thing we can do is expose such to sunlight.

But this is good. First they said we didn't exist. We do. Then they said we are only a few idiots on the edge and have no pulling power. They were wrong. Then the books we nominated just aren't objectively good. They are. So now we exist, in significant numbers, and our nominations are legitimate... but we're being mean by not giving the SJW works a fair shot too.

Oh, okay then.

Blogger bob k. mando February 12, 2015 9:39 AM  

Migly February 10, 2015 11:50 PM
and thought the Dread Ilk generally held themselves to a higher standard of argument than that.



a - leading with Disqualify is Pink. we insult each other plenty around here but we LEAD with the dialectic destruction of what passes with for your 'argument'

b - if you've been reading here for two years, you know damn well who i am, i'm in the top 5 ( by quantity ) commentators
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/01/comment-champions.html


heck, four years ago Vox put up a post on my defenstration of Cabal.



Migly February 10, 2015 11:50 PM
going into all this detail without ever suggesting people ought to read and judge before nominating.



flagrant misrepresentation of reality. Pink.

http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/02/10/sad-puppies-3-update-2-1-addendum-to-prior-update/
"I responded with a few quotes where I did encourage people to read for themselves, form their own opinions, choose for themselves, and basically how you Wrong Kind of Fans are just going to do whatever the hell you feel like anyway."



Migly February 10, 2015 11:50 PM
Once there's a whole slate



There are TWO slates! TWO!
[ / Picard ]

however shall i decide between the conflicting orders of my multiple Masters?

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/02/rabid-puppies-2015.html

so, clearly, this is an organized attempt by scary Right Wing Republicunts to swamp the Hugo noms with organized block voting .... that somehow isn't very organized.

i mean, i can read between the lines just as well as you can.



Migly February 10, 2015 11:50 PM
Once there's a whole slate, however, full of stuff you can only read if you buy back issues of Analog or the books from the publisher or Amazon




because there are no libraries where Migly lives?

because Migly hasn't discovered the intarwebs yet?
http://www.analogsf.com/E-Analog.shtml

frankly, if problem solving of this minimal aptitude is beyond you, you probably aren't tall enough for this blog.



S1AL February 10, 2015 7:35 PM
But Collins does pacing very well



pacing is Dan Brown's forte. the books themselves are ineffably stupid but he does a very good job of hurtling the reader forward at a frenetic pace.



Laz February 11, 2015 12:30 AM
OT: Wheel of Time TV
...
Really crappy recording.


that's what a 48 hour production cycle looks like. and the producer died in a car accident right afterwards ( possibly fatigue related given his blog posts ), so it's unlikely this is going to continue forward unless Zane or somebody else pushes this.

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1268831




GK Chesterton February 11, 2015 1:50 AM
Why Armor in your rebuttal?




a - Easter Egg is Easter Egg
b - whatever else you want to call it, 'Armor' is pretty Blue
c - it amazes me that THIRTY YEARS after 'Armor' was published ( 1984 ), i can still find as many Steakley books ( one ) on the mass market shelves as JC Wright books. DAW is finding this 'Starship Troopers' knockoff profitable or they wouldn't keep printing it.

http://www.penguin.com/search/steakley?_qry=steakley

i also find it sad that bookstores usually only have one of Wright's books on the shelves ... but that's a whole nother post.



GK Chesterton February 11, 2015 1:50 AM
I read Armor and Vampires and while I viewed Vampires as better both seemed flat. I tend to be more Poe/Lovecraft in my horror tastes and I read them a long time ago. Should I read them again?



nah.

Armor has some pretty serious flaws, i agree. it's almost more interesting as a pastiche of Troopers than as a book qua book.

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