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Friday, February 13, 2015

They really are THAT arrogant

I don't think I'll be working with Hollywood anytime soon:
We’re not gonna lie, after watching the cringe-worthy “Iliad” scene from J.Lo’s new movie “The Boy Next Door” we wept for humanity a bit. Then, like the rest of the world we wondered “How the heck did this happen? Is Hollywood really that stupid?”

In case you missed it, the awful scene shows J.Lo’s hunky love interest / psychotic neighbor giving her a “first edition” copy of Homer’s The Iliad. You know, that epic 3,000-year-old-ish poem he wrote. The one in which the oldest version, called the Venetus A, dates back to the 10th century? Yeah. The “first edition” seen in the movie is clearly not 3,000 years old.

We just couldn’t let it go (seriously, The Iliad? Pick ANY other book), so we contacted the screenwriter, Barbara Curry, a former Assistant U.S. Attorney, and asked her point blank: “WTF happened?”

Turns out writers aren’t that dumb. But Hollywood producers are.

“Much of my original script was rewritten by the producers and the director. I was not given the opportunity to participate in the production of this movie,” Curry told Fusion. “As for the first edition ‘Iliad’ reference in the movie, that was not something I wrote in my original script,” she says.
As a publisher of other folks novels, I will have a responsibility to be polite if options of those novels are pursued. But if anyone EXCEPT the guys who produce A Game of Thrones contacts me again about my own books, I am going to tell them, as before, the answer is no. And if they make the mistake of asking me why, I I will absolutely tell them that I have zero interest in working with retards with no respect for the Western canon.

I watched a documentary on a day in the production of A Game of Thrones and it confirmed for me that I prefer the game industry. There is a LOT of carpentry involved, among other things; it is insane how many people and moving parts are required in order to produce a show of that quality. And then to think how readily they will throw all that sort of effort away because some arrogant executive philistine is uneducated really boggles the mind

Labels:

129 Comments:

Anonymous kh123 February 13, 2015 4:12 PM  

Prodeucers and executards, as is said.

"Fix it in post" is another favorite.

Winning is had all of the time.

Also, when passing the buck: Now that's an executive decision.

Anonymous scoobius dubious February 13, 2015 4:12 PM  

Well, come on, two things...

First off, a "first edition" of the Iliad could be taken to simply mean a first edition of a particular translation. I'm not a book collector, but if I was I'd be delighted to own a first edition of the excellent Fagles translation. And it's a popular translation, so a first edition presumably exists. There are lots of famous older translations of the Iliad; if you had say a first edition of Pope's, that would be a valuable thing indeed. Which is a way of saying that the scene isn't necessarily retarded. It might be (haven't seen the damn thing) but it's not inevitable.

Second, a film is about conveying information in order to advance a story, it isn't a talk show where William friggin Buckley corrects your pronunciation. The story point here presumably is to establish that the guy is literate and has enough money to buy first editions of classy books, and enough regard for J.Lo to part with a particularly tasty one. Nothing wrong with that. Very often directors and producers understand what a movie really is, much better than a writer like Curry.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 February 13, 2015 4:18 PM  

Ok, "New Rules"
Each and every departure from the originally agreed "first script" will be considered a "change order".
Each "change order" will be billed @ 25,000 (units), payable to the author before ANY further production ensues. Subsequent returns to the originally agreed upon "interpretation" will ALSO be deemed a subsequent "change order".
Alternatively, producers can pay triple the original agreed fee to the author for the removal of the author's name, likeness, and title, from the production, and "create" what ever the hell they want, sans the reputation of the plagiarized author.
So feel free to go ahead and ask producers, and ESPECIALLY actors, how they Feeeel about paying for their "helpful suggestions" in polishing their "craft".

CaptDMO

Anonymous Stephen J. February 13, 2015 4:21 PM  

"Each and every departure from the originally agreed "first script" will be considered a "change order"."

Understandable but impossible. Scripts go through too many changes necessitated by production considerations, like the decision to combine two minor characters from a first draft into one character in a second in order to save time and speaking-parts budget, or the need to dump a scene when a location permission falls through.

Blogger MATT February 13, 2015 4:23 PM  

JLo is gross.

Anonymous Anubis February 13, 2015 4:26 PM  

Its not Homer's iliad but the SJW revamp. It has bisexual wereseals, & bronies in it.

Anonymous Jill February 13, 2015 4:27 PM  

I'm a big, big fan of Pope. I search out cool antique book sales (and drool, as I don't have the money for them), and there was one recently for a first edition of a Pope translation of the Iliad, published in 1700. With several volumes to it, it's going for $5000. Part of the interest is, of course, that Pope is one of the greats of the English language--but also that his translations have been trashed by some scholars. That just makes the work all the more fascinating, though, which drives up the value (aside from the age). What is particularly appalling about that scene is the combination of bad acting, bad music, and JLo's character's curious lack of commentary on what translation it is and what the publishing date was.

Blogger Chris Scena February 13, 2015 4:29 PM  

Scoobius, are you trolling? Simply not that bright? If the kid new it was a first edition of a certain type, that would come out in the explanation. Obviously, the screenwriters had no clue, hence it is not in the dialogue (or they thought the audience too stupid to know the difference and hey, it is a JLo movie).

What this presents to the audience is a lack of credentials/reality. When suspension of belief is lost, the audience is lost and the story is ruined. Instead of making the guy seem literate, it makes him seem an idiot.

Blogger hank.jim February 13, 2015 4:36 PM  

The movie already appears "cringe-worthy" from the preview alone. I would never watch JLo as a cougar despite the fact that it suits her and true in real life. And it also speaks the perception that JLo is an airhead. She does things spontaneously and everything is a dare and a lie.

Blogger Student in Blue February 13, 2015 4:37 PM  

Obviously, the screenwriters had no clue, hence it is not in the dialogue

You must have missed this part from the article:

Turns out writers aren’t that dumb. But Hollywood producers are.

“Much of my original script was rewritten by the producers and the director.

OpenID cailcorishev February 13, 2015 4:40 PM  

In one of Orson Scott Card's audiobook afterwords, he talked about the process of turning Ender's Game into a film (before it actually happened). He had a few absolute requirements: he didn't want Ender played more than 12 years old, and he didn't want them shoehorning a romance into it. He said that several times it got as far as negotiations and a contract, and then he'd find buried in the contract somewhere a clause that gave them the option of ignoring those requirements. For instance, it might say up front that Ender wouldn't be over 12, but later it'd say something like, "If the producers are unable to find a suitable actor in that age range, they reserve the right to raise the age." Just blatant loopholes for all his deal-breakers.

So after rejecting several attempts because they all tried to pull that kind of stuff, he finally found producers who agreed to his limits -- and they still ended up with a 16-year-old actor for Ender (though at least I don't think they said he was that old), and squeezed in a hint of romance. You can't trust them, and it seems you can't stop them once they have the film rights.

Anonymous Tom February 13, 2015 4:41 PM  

Who is going to make a 3D modeled, realistic computer generated Lord of the Rings or Hobbit that is completely accurate to Tolkien's original? That's what we need.

No carpentry there...

Anonymous scooby's been working for the... drug squad February 13, 2015 4:51 PM  

"If the kid new it was a first edition of a certain type, that would come out in the explanation."

Obviously you have no idea how a movie scene works. It's a MOVIE (and one I won't be seeing), not a class on literary history. I can imagine a guy who's in love with a girl he thinks doesn't share his erudition, giving her the gift and saying "I want you to have this, it's a first edition of the Iliad" -- GIRL: Aw, that's so nice! -- instead of saying "It's a first edition of the Robert Fitzgerald translation, highly valued for its combination of linguistic gracefulness and naked aggression." GIRL: (SNORES)

Let's rewrite the scene using music. GUY: I want you to hear this. It's my favorite pianist playing Mozart. GIRL: Wow, thank you!

Now let's do it your way:
GUY: I want you to hear this. It's Vladimir Horowitz playing the Piano Concerto in A Major, K. 488, his 1975 recording, not the inferior 1966.
GIRL: (SNORES)
AUDIENCE: Whaaaaaat?

See my point?

Anonymous Stephen J. February 13, 2015 4:52 PM  

"So after rejecting several attempts because they all tried to pull that kind of stuff, he finally found producers who agreed to his limits -- and they still ended up with a 16-year-old actor for Ender (though at least I don't think they said he was that old), and squeezed in a hint of romance."

To be fair, the roster of age-appropriate child actors who could play a role like Ender Wiggin is extremely thin on the ground. I'd want room to go a little outside those parameters too. The romance idea I have less sympathy for, but it's worth pointing out that highly successful films which have absolutely no element of romance or sexual tension in them are also few and far between, so it's not surprising that producers are unwilling to deliberately exclude a big potential audience draw from their content.

I have as low an opinion of untrustworthy producers as anybody, and I am very sympathetic to Card's preferences, but the fact remains: when somebody who's in the business of making and selling stuff tells you what's likely and what's not likely to sell, and what will make something easier or harder to make, it's usually sensible to listen to them. I suspect quite a lot of Card's fans would rather have a good film adaptation which actually got made rather than a perfect adaptation which didn't.

Anonymous Anonymous February 13, 2015 4:53 PM  

From director Rob Cohen's IMDB biography:

"Graduated from Harvard University"

Weep, fair Harvard.

Anonymous Harrumph February 13, 2015 4:58 PM  

Bet she didn't even read it.

Blogger Chris Scena February 13, 2015 4:58 PM  

Scoobius, I concede the point about it being a movie that needs to flow and not be bogged down in minutiae.

But I still agree with Vox that because they (whoever pushed the final product) made a blatantly stupid mistake (if they had said a Dickens first edition, few would have blinked) and lost credibility.

Anonymous Porky February 13, 2015 5:00 PM  

I just found a first edition Illiad on ebay for 850 bucks w/free shipping.

So out of curiosity, let's see who wrote that snarky article for Fusion:

Taryn Hillin is Fusion's love and sex writer, with a large focus on the science of relationships. She also loves dogs, Bourbon barrel-aged beers and popcorn -- not necessarily in that order.

Critical thinking, folks. It takes only a few minutes.


OpenID cailcorishev February 13, 2015 5:01 PM  

To be fair, the roster of age-appropriate child actors who could play a role like Ender Wiggin is extremely thin on the ground.

No doubt, and I actually thought the kid they got did a good job with what they gave him. The casting of Bonzo as a little person, on the other hand....

It's just an example showing that, even if you try to control the process, and even if you think you're contractually covered, they'll probably wiggle out somehow and make the movie they want to make. That might be for the better, but it might also leave you looking for a way to remove your name from it.

Blogger August February 13, 2015 5:14 PM  

Do unto the Indy film scene that which you have done with sci-fi.

Get something shown at Cannes. Many SJWs think they have talent in this direction. I have no doubt you could cause some epileptic fits. Extra points for fitting in AC's narcissist highjack into the movie and giving most of the people there a stroke on opening night.

Blogger Ken February 13, 2015 5:17 PM  

Not just the casting of Bonzo as small, but of Ender as HUGE! The kid is the tallest person in the school - save for a few older children.

I was very disappointed by the movie, and oddly, for a reason that seems trivial: in the book, the official term for the aliens is "Formics," but everyone refers to them as "Buggers." In the movie, EVERYONE calls them "Formics," even the kids. It was a stupid departure.

As was the fact that Battle and Command School seemed to take a grand total of maybe 3 months to train Ender and the kids. That book should have been broken into two movies to do it justice.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 13, 2015 5:19 PM  

Well shoot. Just read up on Bill Corbett's amazing adventure with Hollywood when he co-wrote the script for Meet Dave.

Meat Dave

Anonymous Jon Bromfield February 13, 2015 5:21 PM  

It would be very difficult to use an actual twelve-year-old boy to play Ender. Major films take about five to six months to shoot, and twelve-year-old boys can change a whole lot in six months! During the filming of the recent Peter Pan movie, Jeremy Sumpter grew so much they had to re-film a lot of scenes. You can actually see his face change from boy to teenager, and because films are not shot sequentially scene to scene, it's a bit disconcerting.

Blogger Marissa February 13, 2015 5:22 PM  

But let’s be more generous than that. Let’s just say that the boy gave her a rare first edition of an English translation of Homer’s epic poem. There are some famous ones out there: John Dryden, Alexander Pope, Matthew Arnold. A first edition of any one of those could conceivably be worth quite a bit of money, and who knows? Maybe someone would find one in a garage sale somewhere.

Red Line Poets Series FlyerUnfortunately, the book pictured isn’t even that. It’s an edition of Homer’s Iliad published by Thomas J. Crowell & Co. for their Red Line Poets series. I own copies of their editions of Percy’s Shelley’s works and of Byron’s works. The photo to the right is of a flyer stuck inside my edition of Shelley that advertises the series. While it is a nineteenth-century edition, Crowell & Co. having published all 45 titles in the Red Line Poets series by 1882, they originally sold for $1.25 each and typically go for around $8.00 in used bookstores today. The Red Line edition of the Iliad sold for $4.00 at the time because it was bound in calfskin. It might really go for $1.00 in a garage sale, and it’s certainly attractive and would make a nice gift, but no one’s going to empty their bank accounts for one. You can read more about different Red Line Poets editions on this University of Iowa page.


Link

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 13, 2015 5:22 PM  

I do worry about what MHI will look like should Entertainment One ever decide to move forward with a movie or show.

Anonymous Will Best February 13, 2015 5:26 PM  

You can't trust them, and it seems you can't stop them once they have the film rights.

I heard they couldn't take a dump without JKRs permission. Then again she was still in the middle of writing it while they were producing the movies. Which might also explain why Martin's work is getting a solid effort.

To be fair, the roster of age-appropriate child actors who could play a role like Ender Wiggin is extremely thin on the ground.

Which is why they basically had open casting calls for the whole of the United Kingdom when trying to find children for those movies.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar February 13, 2015 5:26 PM  

Isn't this filmed aimed at minorities? They wouldn't know Homer's Iliad if it was a Graphic Novel by Frank Miller! Maybe it was another passive aggressive stab at Whites? The target audience probably doesn't read the labels on their food or medicine though.
Apparently the Dinosaur Media has another brilliant plan. They're going to now produce TV and movies aimed at minorities to stave off bankruptcy. Rupert Fokks Muhdick has just hit it rich by making a black soap about the amazing back story of hippity-hop producers that have the largest black audience ever! Cold Syrup manufacturers and Malt Liquor bottlers are just running to pay hundreds of dollars for ads on this sure-fire moneymaker that may break even if there's a fire at the studio covered by enormous insurance...

Anonymous Will Best February 13, 2015 5:34 PM  

I get not wanting to get bogged down in details. But they could just say "an old translation" "a medieval translation" "a 400 year old translation" or any number of other choices which would have conveyed the value and age of the book without sounding stupid.

Anonymous Peter February 13, 2015 5:35 PM  

I don't know Vox. I'd like to think the producers were actually making the script more true to life. J. Lo's highly intelligent character wouldn't know the difference:

" If you find yourself in conversation with a highly educated woman, entertain yourself by making up something ridiculous, like the Nemean Dialogues of Socrates, the Decepticon of Ovid, or Lord Byron's epic poem, The Walrus and the Butterfly. More often than not, a highly educated woman will not only claim to be familiar with these nonexistent works, but will actually claim to have read them in college for one class or another."

Anonymous Daniel February 13, 2015 6:01 PM  

Next you'll tell me there's no basement in the Alamo.

Anonymous Noah B. February 13, 2015 6:03 PM  

"JLo is gross."

Mmmmm, taco flavored kisses. And the Iliad part sounds like one of the more believable aspects of the plot.

OpenID cailcorishev February 13, 2015 6:04 PM  

In the movie, EVERYONE calls them "Formics," even the kids. It was a stupid departure.

It was, but as I understand it, that one's on Card, who switched to "Formics" in the books -- either because of the very different meaning of "bugger" in the UK, or because he didn't want readers thinking of the mindless Starship Troopers movie "bugs," according to different sources I've seen.

Anonymous Noah B. February 13, 2015 6:04 PM  

"Isn't this filmed aimed at minorities?"

No, it's still a book

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 13, 2015 6:06 PM  

I admit, I don't know the answer, but is there any way that it could be reasonable that they're talking about a first English edition, at least? Maybe?

Trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt here.

Blogger Cataline Sergius February 13, 2015 6:12 PM  

As Hollywood stupidity goes this is pretty minor.

If you want real dumb watch network cop shows.

NCIS had that famous scene, where a computer is getting "hacked," and Goth Chick and her Supervisor are both fighting the hacker by using the same keyboard. Think about the epic level of contagious dumb that was on display in that scene. In the unlikely even that any of you reading this are unfamiliar with computers, a keyboard is the part of the computer that is like a typewriter. Two people cannot use the same typewriter. A fact know everywhere except Hollywood.

Then there was the gamer episode of NCIS where a guy walks into the scene, looks at wallpaper on the Gamer Girl's monitor and asks, "is that a twelve core?" This was in 2009. From there we got to find out that Gamer Grrl has "the high score in virtually every massively multiplayer online role-playing game." Okay that would require her to be putting in about 1200 hours per week on gaming. Which might be difficult, since there are only 168 hours in a week. The amount of contemptuous stupidity packed into that sentence is terrifying.

Anonymous Noah B. February 13, 2015 6:12 PM  

"Trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt here."

Maybe they're talking about a different Iliad.

Blogger Daniel February 13, 2015 6:20 PM  

What's less realistic is that JLo still finds him attractive after discovering that he frequents garages sales.

Blogger Vox February 13, 2015 6:28 PM  

It's just an example showing that, even if you try to control the process, and even if you think you're contractually covered, they'll probably wiggle out somehow and make the movie they want to make.

I don't work with weasels. No interest in that. If I see a fat contract with clauses now, I just throw it in the trash and walk. I've personally experienced how little respect those sort of people have for agreements, even if it is clearly written down in black and white.

Blogger Hammerli280 February 13, 2015 6:44 PM  

Castalia House Productions. Do it in house. The Quantum Mortis stories would do pretty well on film.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet February 13, 2015 6:46 PM  

For those saying there could have at least been some supporting dialogue...

I recently gave someone an important gift with a rich symbolic history. I made no mention of its importance not will I ever. I leave that for them to one day discover on their own.

Now maybe I'm not your typical gift giver, but I can't be alone in this practice.

Also, I never thought I'd be defending J.Lo... It must be the Leftist Kool-aid.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 13, 2015 6:50 PM  

I'm so thrilled the trailer is gone from youtube, now if only the 50 shades trailer would go away forever. If youtube is going to promote those two moron movies I demand they bring back trailers for the the 1990's Whore and Kids. Yeah, yeah, click skip it but JoL's idiot movie trailer replays and replays.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 6:51 PM  

Now maybe I'm not your typical gift giver, but I can't be alone in this practice.

If a gift (especially literature) needs to be explained, it's the wrong gift.

Anonymous Trimegistus February 13, 2015 6:53 PM  

Let's be honest here. It's not that they're "THAT arrogant." It's that they're "THAT stupid."

Our country — our civilization — are in the hands of people who are really kind of stupid, but believe they are the cleverest ones around.

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 7:09 PM  

@ Northern Hamlet: I recently gave someone an important gift with a rich symbolic history. I made no mention of its importance not will I ever. I leave that for them to one day discover on their own.

You see? If THAT was in a movie, the audience would be hammered over the head with explanatory emotive dialogue. Even more so if it was a TV series.

Anonymous scoobius dubious February 13, 2015 7:26 PM  

"If THAT was in a movie, the audience would be hammered over the head with explanatory emotive dialogue."

Depends what kind of movie they're trying to make, and what sort of audience they're trying to reach. If it's J.Lo in some hack-job wannabe blockbuster*, then yes. If it's Jennifer Lawrence in a Wes Anderson movie, then no. Also depends what sort of meaning the scene is trying to convey.

* -- I can't believe what a train-wreck J.Lo's film career has been. She's actually a very good actress -- take a look at "Out of Sight" if you don't believe me -- but she keeps choosing all the wrong projects. "Maid in Manhattan"? Was she out of her freakin' mind?

Girlfriend, listen to me. Fire your people.

(btw, can we start calling Jennifer Lawrence J.Law?)

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 7:27 PM  

"I just found a first edition Illiad on ebay for 850 bucks w/free shipping."

first edition in English would be dated 1583, but it would seem prudent to make the distinction to avoid looking like a moron.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 7:28 PM  

Wow.
Guys, this one isn't hard at all. And there's nothing wrong with the movie. He said "First Edition", he didn't say, "I bought you a book that's 3000 years old." The first edition could simply mean that he has the first one from the 10 century.
How is this supposed to be sooooo crazy.
To my idiot friend who posts Vox Day drivel on facebook that comes up in my news feed, I hope you know how stupid you look now.
"Jennifer Lopez movies: Stupid Movies for Stupid People"., cute.
The only stupid person is the one who's assuming that the boy next door is actually giving her a 3000 year old book.

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 7:32 PM  

Angry Sarah- "The first edition could simply mean that he has the first one from the 10 century."

I hope you realize now how stupid YOU look. Have a great day

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 7:34 PM  

NateM, don't go running off.
Explain what you mean. This video is making it seem like he has a 3000 year old book. Where did she even say that?

Anonymous Godfrey February 13, 2015 7:34 PM  

I think it's a matter of talent. There are very few truly talented people in Hollywood. It's too inbred. Nepotism reigns supreme. There just isn’t anything of depth being produced.

It's said that we live in interesting times. This is true, but unfortunately it's full of thoroughly boring people. And that’s the greatest crime of the Left, they’re so horribly boring.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 7:38 PM  

LOL!!! you little boys have nothing except being a hater towards an accomplished woman.
You boys think that she's saying first edition in the sense of a book from 3000 years ago.
This is priceless. Wonder if I could buy this for a buck at a garage sale.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 7:38 PM  

Wow.

Exactly. How you managed to navigate here with reading comprehension that poor... I'm without words.

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 7:42 PM  

Well Sarah, the fact that even a book from the 10th century, prior to the invention of the printing press would have to be hand copied would itself mean that book would be incredibly valuable. Just picking on out of the Wikipedia list of books from the 10th century, Praecepta Militaria or shows a piece of Byzantine literature that would be quite rare outside a museum. Also the during that time Modern English wasn't spoken, MIddle English would have been the closest equivalent of the modern language we use. The closest equivalent to modern English wasn't in use until at least 1400, 4-500 years after that time. So I reiterate making that statement, to anyone who knows anything, makes you look like an idiot.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 7:43 PM  

D.Lane and little NateM all you have done is try to make fun of me but neither have actually addressed my claims.
"I'm without words", little boy, it's a shame you actually were without words.

And I'll say again: she NEVER said a 3000 year old book. She said the FIRST edition. And if the FIRST edition was written in the 10TH century then that's clearly what she's referring too.

haters.

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 7:45 PM  

Apparently you aren't took accomplished at being acquainted with reality, or using a simple search to reveal the errors in your own statement before venting your spleen to strangers in an attempt to prove your worth.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 7:46 PM  

Uhhh.... dummy, it's not like she said she COULD read it. So the printing press wasn't around in the 10th century. BIG FUCKING DEAL! So he gave her one that's hand written in a language she might not be able to read. And she never said "I can't wait to read this".
You fucking twit!

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 7:47 PM  

All you asked me to do is prove why I saw you as an idiot from your statements. Though now you're doing a fair job of demonstrating it to everyone. Nice fighting retreat though.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 7:52 PM  

Oh okay, little boy. "Fighting retreat", little boy? Not quite. I'm demonstrating that you're a fool quite nicely, precious.

Blogger Josh February 13, 2015 7:54 PM  

Angry Sarah is angry

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 7:55 PM  

Sarah, You Ignorant Slut. Not only did you show you have no idea about 1) Books 2) Printing 3) Language 4)History 5) Having a fully functional brain, you're now trying to mask that by attacking those that point it out. Please do point out where I have failed to meet that burden of proof of showing that your statements show a hilarious lack of knowledge of what you speak of and i'll be glad to correct myself. You are attempting to re frame the argument to what you MEANT to say rather than what was actually said. Trust me, you won't be the first or last Smooth Brain to come here all full of fury attempting to do so.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 7:57 PM  

D.Lane and little NateM all you have done is try to make fun of me but neither have actually addressed my claims.
"I'm without words", little boy, it's a shame you actually were without words.


It would be difficult to illustrate your incomprehension of the discussion any more effectively than your own, uh, "contributions." I'm sure the Ilk will excuse my lack of desire to attempt the needless and impossible, GG.

Blogger CM February 13, 2015 7:57 PM  

Angry Sarah,

Not that I'm unaccustomed to having my sex shamed by tools and trolls like you, but please shut up.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 8:01 PM  

He hands her a book. She says it's the first edition. He says he found it at a garage sale.

There's nothing wrong with any of this.
She never said "it's a 3000 year old book".
First edition could mean that it's from the 10th century.

It seems like the only ax you guys have to grind is that he would say he found it at a garage sale. But guess what? Lots of people put things in garage sales that they have no idea of the worth.

OpenID cailcorishev February 13, 2015 8:02 PM  

Is this the debut of TransTad?

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 8:04 PM  

If you find a 10th century original manuscript at a garage sale, please direct me there. And then explain to me why in God's name a reasonable person would think someone would buy a book in a language, which only scholars in medieval literature could read, as a gift.

Anonymous bluto February 13, 2015 8:05 PM  

Single pages of 10th century books, especially significant ones like the Iliad are generally part of the prized collection of museums and are kept under special conditions (gloved hands, single pages turned exceedingly carefully, never, ever flipped through, and are usually kept under dark glass or in windowless rooms).

They're not something anyone short of a billionaire gives as a gift, and even then they'd be given in much tighter conditions than shown.

Anonymous Harsh February 13, 2015 8:07 PM  

She never said "it's a 3000 year old book".
First edition could mean that it's from the 10th century.


The clear implication is that it's a 3000 year old book. Are you that dense?

Blogger ManiaC Provost February 13, 2015 8:14 PM  

So, anyway, some parts of the Ender's Game movie were pulled off pretty well. The Giant's Castle and hive queen were integrated nicely. Still, overall, I wouldn't mind waiting another 20 years for a better version.

And I would sell out to Hollywood no problem.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 8:17 PM  

NateM, here's where our confusion is. She said "First Edition", you're interpreting that has her saying "Original Manuscript". You do know that "First Edition" doesn't mean "Original Manuscript", right?

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 8:22 PM  

i'll start again.. Sloooooowly

"The first edition could simply mean that he has the first one from the 10 century.
How is this supposed to be sooooo crazy."

How this is crazy, is that that book would not only be unreadable, but also still priceless as Bluto pointed out. This is why you've been getting beat up, because you make these statements and don't realize why they sound dumb. Would it be Original in that it was the first one, well no. But it would still be individually created and highly rare. As Harsh pointed out the implication of First Edition is "Original", meaning 3000 years. So either way you look at it, it is a ridiculous piece of dialogue

Anonymous Harsh February 13, 2015 8:23 PM  

You do know that "First Edition" doesn't mean "Original Manuscript", right?

You don't seem to know what either term means.

Blogger ManiaC Provost February 13, 2015 8:25 PM  

Angry Sarah, I concur with your analysis of the scene. True, an esoteric reading of the subtext may be required, but that very duality - resonating with different audiences on diverse levels - merely adds depth to an already sophisticated cinematic experience.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 8:30 PM  

She said "First Edition", you're interpreting that has her saying "Original Manuscript". You do know that "First Edition" doesn't mean "Original Manuscript", right?

Her character is a lit professor. If the scene were written to convey a translation, the line would have indicated that it was the first edition of X translation. It didn't.

Now, let's give the responsible parties the benefit of the doubt. Even IF they didn't mean it as it was received, they are still incompetent for not having noticed an error of such obvious significance.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet February 13, 2015 8:32 PM  

She said "First Edition", you're interpreting that has her saying "Original Manuscript".

I was going to say we were being trolled...

But this is too stupid, just hilariously stupid. Who knew they had first editions back then? Maybe it even had the original dust jacket.

Anonymous Soga February 13, 2015 8:34 PM  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edition_%28book%29#First_edition

From Wikipedia, looks like a first edition is the first of a print run of a book. So, the first edition of the Iliad is not the same as the original manuscript.

Nevertheless, according to the University of Chicago Library, the first printed edition of Iliad went out in 1488. That's still too old.

Anonymous Sensei February 13, 2015 8:34 PM  

It seems like the only ax you guys have to grind is that he would say he found it at a garage sale. But guess what? Lots of people put things in garage sales that they have no idea of the worth.

*composes self, wipes away tears of mirth*

She's right guys, she's right. I'm going to start combing the local sidewalk sales, could be a first edition paperback of Bello Gallico in there somewhere...

Anonymous scoobius dubious February 13, 2015 8:38 PM  

Oh for pete's sake you people.

Angry Sarah -- you are right of course that her saying it's a first edition (not "the" first edition, the distinction matters) doesn't make her stupid and doesn't make the scene stupid. Where you go off the rails is with this silly nonsense about the 10th century. An "edition" means an iteration of a press run. Books from the 10th century were not printed. Therefore they do not have editions. What she means is that it's a first edition of a certain translation. I haven't seen the scene, but she probably just looks at the frontispiece page where the printing information would be, and sees that it's a first edition -- valuable, but not priceless.

So you're right on your main point, but wrong on the details, and being stubbornly pig-headed about it.

And please, if you're going to insult people (it's an art form around here), try to come up with something funnier than "little boy". Nothing says "I'm an idiot" faster than a lame, unfunny insult.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 8:39 PM  

She's right guys, she's right. I'm going to start combing the local sidewalk sales, could be a first edition paperback of Bello Gallico in there somewhere...

Reminds me of the time I stumbled upon a discarded thumb drive containing the only existing .wav of Socrates' first debate. You just never know...

Anonymous tiredofitall February 13, 2015 8:40 PM  

"So feel free to go ahead and ask producers, and ESPECIALLY actors, how they Feeeel about paying for their "helpful suggestions" in polishing their "craft"." - CaptDMO

There was a story I heard about some director (can't remember who, can't be arsed to look right now) who gladly took meetings with producers to hear their suggestions. As the producer would yammer on about changing this, or that the director would passively listen and occasionally tick off a check mark on a slip of paper. At the end of the meeting the producer finally asked, "I noticed you kept making check marks while I was talking, what was that about?"

The director said, "Oh it's a standard clause in my contract, every time a producer tries to make any suggestions I get 10 grand added to my salary." He showed the producer the slip of paper covered in check marks and happily walked away.

Anonymous Angry Sarah February 13, 2015 8:42 PM  

Feel good teaming up on a girl??
I'm fine admitting my mistakes. I still don't get what's so outlandish of getting a very obscure book at a garage. It happens. There's a guy who dug gold from out of his backyard in the UK from the Roman Empire.
But, you might want to turn down the insults. FWIW, I'm not the only one who thought that there wasn't an error. ManiaC Provost also said he agreed with me. but you didn't attack him.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 8:46 PM  

But, you might want to turn down the insults.

You opened with insults. What did you expect, "How can we help you?"

Feel good teaming up on a girl??

Indifferent.


Anonymous tiredofitall February 13, 2015 8:47 PM  

"She's right guys, she's right. I'm going to start combing the local sidewalk sales, could be a first edition paperback of Bello Gallico in there somewhere..." - Sensei

While you're doing that could you keep an eye on the lookout for a galley copy of the Malleus Maleficarum for me?

Anonymous Feather Times a Feather February 13, 2015 8:51 PM  

"Feel good teaming up on a girl??"

Wait, what's this "but I'm only a girl!" shit? I thought youse was all equal and stuff.

Anonymous Harsh February 13, 2015 8:52 PM  

Feel good teaming up on a girl??

Aren't you one of those strong, independent women?

I'm fine admitting my mistakes.

No, you're clearly not.

But, you might want to turn down the insults.

Unintended irony?

FWIW, I'm not the only one who thought that there wasn't an error.

There clearly was an error, but you've yet to stumble upon it.

Anonymous Harsh February 13, 2015 8:57 PM  

There's a guy who dug gold from out of his backyard in the UK from the Roman Empire.

But was it first edition gold?

Anonymous scoobius dubious February 13, 2015 8:58 PM  

"I still don't get what's so outlandish of getting a very obscure book at a garage."

There's nothing outlandish about that. The original point of dispute was whether it made a character sound stupid to call a copy of the Iliad "a first edition". That wasn't even Vox's point, he was talking about the way Hollywood butchers a writer's work.

You realize you came charging in here like a bull. It's not advisable, because there are a LOT of matadors around here. But maybe you'll come to your senses and learn how to play in this sandbox. It's fine to insult people, but it helps to be right.

Anonymous dame scooby dench February 13, 2015 9:00 PM  

"But was it first edition gold?"

Finally! We have a thread winner. That certainly took a while.

Anonymous Scooter February 13, 2015 9:43 PM  

I think you'd be surprised to find that there are a lot of talented execs who give good development notes and know how to trust the creatives and writers.

I thought this was a good year for studio movies overall: Guardians of the Galaxy, Fury, Edge of Tomorrow, and Dawn of the Planet of the Apes were all solid.

Anonymous kfg February 13, 2015 9:49 PM  

If he really cared about her he would have gone to a bookseller and coughed up for an autograph.

I've seen the scene. The book is quite obviously a perfectly ordinary, modern English printing.

She does discover it's a first edition only when she opens it and reads the fact. The scene isn't actually stupid at all, except perhaps that she would have known that the particular edition wasn't really all that special, or expensive. People who are not book people, however, might simply assume that a 19th century book is necessarily rare and expensive. They aren't.

Angry Sarah, however, is both angry and stupid.

Anonymous film critic February 13, 2015 9:53 PM  

"Second, a film is about conveying information in order to advance a story, it isn't a talk show where William friggin Buckley corrects your pronunciation."

Exactly. Vox is making a mountain out of a molehill due to his irrational fear of Hollywood.

"I will absolutely tell them that I have zero interest in working with retards with no respect for the Western canon."

Puhleeze. What planet do you live on? There are retards everywhere on planet earth. Vox go big or go home.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 13, 2015 10:02 PM  

Also, both 50 shades and jlo's charater mis-matches, both men are not the least bit attractive, poor casting.

It is like pairing off a sarah silverman or sharon stone to any man from cheers in a movie. its all stupid but pple here love stupid so they can have their emo porn.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 13, 2015 10:03 PM  

One day Vox will make his own movie according to his script/correct history etc.,

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 10:09 PM  

@ film critic

Puhleeze. What planet do you live on? There are retards everywhere on planet earth. Vox go big or go home.

My cousin cleans pools in L.A. I visit once in awhile. Actually, he has a lot of pools in Beverly Hills, and has for decades.

These retards are a cut above.

Anonymous Harsh February 13, 2015 10:16 PM  

Exactly. Vox is making a mountain out of a molehill due to his irrational fear of Hollywood.

I read Vox's comments three times and I can't find where he expresses fear. Please point it out.

Anonymous kfg February 13, 2015 10:16 PM  

OK, I actually have sitting on my desk, right now, a first (paperback) edition of the Iliad, which is, what do you know, autographed; I've ruined my own joke.

I got it from Fitzgerald in '75.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 13, 2015 10:23 PM  

Nazi Nostalgia

Certainly seems to evince more talent than Picasso.

Anonymous Discard February 13, 2015 10:25 PM  

Ken: To "bugger" is to sodomize, in British slang, isn't it? Maybe that's why it was changed.

Anonymous Discard February 13, 2015 10:26 PM  

Scooter: "Fury" sucked.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 10:31 PM  

"Fury" sucked

What was wrong with Fury, outside of Brad Pitt becoming all but invisible on that machine gun at the end?

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 10:37 PM  

> Ken: To "bugger" is to sodomize, in British slang, isn't it? Maybe that's why it was changed.

That is true. However, to call a person a "bugger" is different. It does not mean they are ones who indulge in buggery, at least not physically.

My own sainted mum called me a bugger once.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 13, 2015 10:43 PM  

That is true. However, to call a person a "bugger" is different. It does not mean they are ones who indulge in buggery, at least not physically.

Indeed. For example, "poor bugger" is more like "poor beggar" in sentiment.

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 10:47 PM  

> What was wrong with Fury, outside of Brad Pitt becoming all but invisible on that machine gun at the end?


Sort of like Bataan (1943)


Robert Taylor is on the machine gun firing in the last scene and they zoom in on the machine gun barrel, closer and closer, until it finally stops firing, and you know the jigs up! At least they did in the actual movie. These are just stills. Funny how that works.

If that is what it was like, they stole it.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 10:58 PM  

If that is what it was like, they stole it.

[SPOILERS, YO!] Nothing so implausible.

He merely gave off the impression that a possible outcome of the writing was the total annihilation of the Nazi ground forces that surrounded the tank. That was until he was picked off from a stone's throw by a sniper who, evidently, was in no particular hurry.

Anonymous Scooter February 13, 2015 10:58 PM  

Cool tank battles, a Christian character who wasn't a pussy or a pedophile, all centered around a story of brotherhood. Whats not to like

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 11:12 PM  

@ D. Lane

Nothing so implausible.

Wait a minute. Its the same thing only slightly different, a variation on a theme. like
The Goldberg Variations by Johan Sebastian Bach.

Anonymous Discard February 13, 2015 11:21 PM  

Germans with panzerfausts couldn't take out a Sherman tank.
At night, Germans allowed themselves to be gunned down like Zulus, charging right at a machine gun, rather than circling around the tank.
German with a scoped rifle shooting at Brad Pitt from about 30 feet.
No Germans shooting at Brad Pitt with standard rifles, when he is silhouetted by a burning building.
Brad Pitt being shot three times by said German with scoped rifle and still making it back inside the tank with a crate of .30 cal. ammo.
Five (four?) Shermans charging a German Panther (Tiger?) across an open field like the Light Brigade.

There's more where this came from.

Anonymous Trimegistus February 13, 2015 11:23 PM  

How are things at the wildlife center, "Sarah"?

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 11:26 PM  

It's a variation on a theme, yes. But the arrangement had a requisite higher suspension of disbelief than what's conveyed by those stills.

If I didn't know better, I would have sworn he injected himself with a lethal pathogen prior to manning the gun, just so the Nazi's wouldn't know what to shoot.

Blogger Josh February 13, 2015 11:29 PM  

It's more likely that Sarah is Tad or Ann Morgan

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 11:30 PM  

@ Discard

There's more where this came from.

I feel your pain, but everyone's pain is relative, that is, for a viewer of a film to be involved, it must present to them PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY so they can have faith in the story.

The older or more informed one gets, the less plausible deniability is possible, and enjoyment of entertainments suffers.

Anonymous zen0 February 13, 2015 11:35 PM  

@ D. Lane

> If I didn't know better, I would have sworn he injected himself with a lethal pathogen prior to manning the gun, just so the Nazi's wouldn't know what to shoot.

Ok. You win. I have no idea what that means.

Anonymous Discard February 13, 2015 11:35 PM  

It may be that the "First Edition" comment was a joke by the screenwriter. Some movies have lots of in jokes. Some in jokes are for other Hollywood people, some are for others who are familiar with the topic, and some, perhaps this one, are for to people who know something about the book trade.

Anonymous Shut Up, Tad February 13, 2015 11:38 PM  

@ Josh

It's more likely that Sarah is Tad or Ann Morgan

I know its not Tad, and I think Ann Morgan has a different M.O.

Could be a Marsten variation or a virgin.

Blogger D. Lane February 13, 2015 11:39 PM  

Ok. You win. I have no idea what that means.

World War Z (film) reference. It suffices to say the "enemy" completely ignores Pitt at the end of that film, too.

Anonymous Anubis February 13, 2015 11:42 PM  

"Two people cannot use the same typewriter. A fact know everywhere except Hollywood."

Having dealt with a bureaucracy this weekend I should point out that not only is such a thing possible but they might make good workers do that so affirmative action tokens don't look bad.

Anonymous Discard February 13, 2015 11:50 PM  

zen0: Sorry to piss on the parade. I just wish that Hollywood would try to tell a story straight.

Anonymous NateM February 13, 2015 11:54 PM  

I dunno, Ann Morgan would have doubled and tripled down on it and cited some unrelated degree as a reason why shy really knows more than the person would just explained why she's wrong.

Blogger Ken February 13, 2015 11:58 PM  

"Ken: To "bugger" is to sodomize, in British slang, isn't it? Maybe that's why it was changed."

Hmmm...insert standard "All Actors Are Gay" joke, here.

Seriously, though, most kids are pretty unfamiliar with the etymology of the word - most Americans, regardless of age, actually - and given that in times of war, nations give their enemies derisive nicknames, "Bugger" is both descriptive and appropriately insulting.

But I guess Hollywood wouldn't see the value of taking the fear out of the enemy by mocking them. C'est la vie.

Anonymous Stickwick February 14, 2015 12:04 AM  

Feel good teaming up on a girl??

Our new friend breezes in here with insults and foul language, and then when the tables are ever so mildly turned, she goes into the "wittle girl" retreat. I dunno, this is almost too on the nose to be anything other than uninspired performance art.

Anonymous zen0 February 14, 2015 12:07 AM  

@ Discard Sorry to piss on the parade.

I think your criticism is justified, it is just that they have made the calculation that you and your ilk do not affect the bottom line, and therefore are redundant.

It is a familiar theme in all walks of life.

Anonymous zen0 February 14, 2015 12:11 AM  

@ Stickwick: I dunno, this is almost too on the nose to be anything other than uninspired performance art.

Or inspired artlessness. The commitment is there, but not the talent.

Anonymous Discard February 14, 2015 12:28 AM  

Zen0: You're right about the bottom line. I saw the movie "Patton" as a guest of an officer in a theater full of the First (?) Armored Division. Apparently these these things can be done right, because nobody complained about the tank stuff. But there aren't enough tank men to make or break a movie.

I'm a sucker for movies with planes and ships and big crawly machines, but I'm always disappointed. Call it "battered moviegoer syndrome".

Anonymous kh123 February 14, 2015 2:17 AM  

Might I suggest that someone needs some audition time on the casting couch.

Blogger Jack Morrow February 14, 2015 6:56 AM  

For a humourous example of what Hollywood producers do with even older and more famous written source material, see ...And God Spoke.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 14, 2015 7:01 AM  

For tank hobbyists there is always the Israeli movie "Tank", not much action of the tank itself but if you want to watch a pretty good movie about tankers spoken in Hebrew it might be your one.

IMO the Western Canon does not need to be defended from Hollywood it needs to be inflicted upon Hollywood, the counter attack begins.

Anonymous Anonymous February 14, 2015 10:39 AM  

Perhaps the male character KNEW it couldn't be a fist edition and was trolling j-lo.

--hale

Blogger Marissa February 14, 2015 5:33 PM  

"Cool tank battles, a Christian character who wasn't a pussy or a pedophile, all centered around a story of brotherhood. Whats not to like"

Some good symbolism too, death (SS) on a pale horse at the beginning, the crossroads they die at, at the end looks like a cross from the last aerial shot. I've read crossroads are where suicides were buried as they're considered the closest thing to sacred ground and that was a suicide mission.

Anonymous Anonymous Cowherd February 15, 2015 1:03 AM  

The reason that the Gotham Police went underground at the same time is because it was rejected as too stupid by the director of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Luckily for the producer he had a more accommodating director for whatever Batman that was.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 15, 2015 3:12 PM  

Jennie from da Block totes readz Homeric Greek, cuz it's all about keepin' it real y'all. Peace out all y'all bronze-armored Achaeans.

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