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Friday, February 27, 2015

Why we fight

Because this is what happens when you don't:
Karen Memery (like memory but with an e as she explains), is just such a seamstress. She is the titular narrator of Elizabeth Bear’s latest steampunk adventure, Karen Memory (with an o and not an e). A prostitute at the Hôtel Ma Cherie, a high-class bordello in Seattle Rapid City in the late 1800s, Memery is dissatisfied with her job and her johns, longing for the prairie life she gave up when her father died....

Bear also gleefully subverts gender roles in Karen Memory. Not just with Karen and Priya’s lesbian relationship. She also introduces Crispin, the gay bouncer at the Hôtel Ma Cherie, and Miss Francina, one of the seamstresses who has a select client base. As Karen puts it:

    “…the thing about Miss Francina is that Miss Francina’s got a pecker under her dress. But that ain’t nothing but God’s rude joke. She’s one of us girls every way that matters, and handy for a bouncer besides.”

So not only do we have three prominent gay characters, including the main protagonist and her love interest, but we also have a transgender character — the first I’ve run into in a 19th Century setting. And Karen’s plainspoken acceptance of Miss Francina, and those other societal outcasts who gravitate to the Hôtel Ma Cherie is probably the most refreshing part of the book.

Indeed, one of the major themes of Karen Memory seems to be the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm. Bear puts a variety of alternative lifestyles and minority role models on display, and fervently asserts that they too can be heroes in a fantasy novel. Madame Damnable in her quest for leadership of Seattle Rapid City against Bantle; the African-American Marshal Reeves, who has risen to a place of leadership despite his race (and actually Madame Damnable as well – Karen makes it clear that the powerful madame is also African-American by blood, if not by appearance); and Priya and Karen’s blossoming relationship, forbidden both as same-sex and interracial, are all examples.
Does that sounds like "loads of fun" to you? Because reading about a dissatisfied whore while being subjected to a sermon on the importance of diversity in sexual orientation, race, and transgenderism sounds about as much fun as listening to to SJWs drone on NPR about intersectionalism. I would genuinely rather read an IMF paper on the monetary policy of Zambia  or Newton's Principia. In Latin.

Loads of fun. That's what they want to bring to the game industry too. Loads of fun. Now, you can either submit to this SJW shit, or you can help us keep it out of games and take back science fiction. What will it be?

UPDATE: Bandai Namco sensitively responds to SJW concerns by providing new armor for female characters Ivy and Amy. Happy now?

No, apparently not.

Labels: ,

154 Comments:

Anonymous Bleh February 27, 2015 12:20 PM  

It's about what you would expect from a beast like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bear#mediaviewer/File:Elizabeth_Bear_at_Eurocon_2011.jpg

Blogger lubertdas February 27, 2015 12:22 PM  

Wow, that read like a parody of SJW chick-lit...

WHO READS THIS STUFF?!?!!?

Not me...

Blogger Jim February 27, 2015 12:23 PM  

I had fun reading that kind of story only once, as part of my undergraduate career where the only English course available to meet core requirements was loaded with this SJW crap. I had fun by turning the SJW tools of deconstruction against them and so revealed the whole course-load as a subversive tirade against the entire sham. It was fun watching the professor's head explode.

Blogger IM2L844 February 27, 2015 12:28 PM  

If it were a play I'm reasonably certain I would get kicked out of the theater for uproarious laughter in all the "wrong" places.

Blogger grendel February 27, 2015 12:28 PM  

If anyone needs me I'll be in the yard cutting logs into short pieces and long pieces.

Anonymous Rapid Offensive Unit February 27, 2015 12:30 PM  

"Indeed, one of the major themes of Karen Memory seems to be the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm."

Yeah. In civilization built by dominant white males. Lets subvert that, I'm sure alternative would be just fabulous. Something vibrant and diversive like Detroit.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 27, 2015 12:34 PM  

Nothing like seeing the private fantasies of a crazy cat lady on full display in her book.

Blogger Josh February 27, 2015 12:34 PM  

She apparently also won a Hugo for something called "Shoggoths in Bloom"

Anonymous SeventhSon February 27, 2015 12:34 PM  

I love that they never notice that they're essentially having all their little tokens LARP as straight white folk. Oh, the irony.

Anonymous Steve February 27, 2015 12:36 PM  

Never heard of Elizabeth Bear before.

So I was curious, and googled her.

Shockingly, light is not her friend.

What is it with physically repellent people and their obsession with lionising outcasts and freaks?

Anonymous Amigo February 27, 2015 12:37 PM  

She looks a lot like her boyfriend. He has longer better hair though.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 27, 2015 12:38 PM  

Elizabeth Bear was marked out for special attention from the PC-hate squads back in RaceFail. Nothing was too small to escape their notice. When Bear referred to extended writing sessions as "death marches" she was first denounced for failing to respect American POWs taken at Bataan, then Filipino POWs, and then Cherokees. Hilarity ensued.

She seems to have worked overtime to cover her bases here (trans- lesbian POC), but when complaints are just made up nonsense your always guilty.
I predict Bear will be denounced islamophobia and basic hatred of pyro-sexual otherkin. I'm so triggered by her! And she named the character "Memery" which is to say mammery, so she's a tit. Bear is boobophobic! Argh, moar triggering!

Anonymous Kosminski February 27, 2015 12:39 PM  

Let us not be so hasty. I could have lots of fun with people like these.

Anonymous Stilicho February 27, 2015 12:41 PM  

Why no were-manatees? Too white?

Anonymous DJJ February 27, 2015 12:42 PM  

What a surprise, published by Tor.

Anonymous fish February 27, 2015 12:45 PM  

It's about what you would expect from a beast like this:

....yep.....the only thing missing is the fur.

Blogger frigger611 February 27, 2015 12:47 PM  

Jesus, help me. Every day I discover something new that convinces me that the culture can't get any lower. We are beset on all sides by sewage and pestilence of the mind. I'm gonna go inventory my stockpile of ammo and beans.

I mean, since they're openly declaring this white male paradigm has to be subverted n' all.

Anonymous Steve February 27, 2015 12:47 PM  

Swiftfoxmark2 - Nothing like seeing the private fantasies of a crazy cat lady on full display in her book.

Ah, but however hard to look at a lady may be, there's usually a man equally as thirsty.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 12:51 PM  

Well, having bought the book based on the author's reading of the first chapter at Windycon, I read stuff like this. Chapter 1 was pretty active, ending with a shoot-out and a bad guy trying to use some kind of mind-control device.

Oh, and Bass Reeves is a real historical figure.

Anonymous Noah B. February 27, 2015 12:53 PM  

"....yep.....the only thing missing is the fur."

Careful, I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 27, 2015 12:53 PM  

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/theory-feminists-are-masculinized-phenotypic-morphs/

Feminists are masculinized phenotypic morphs

Anonymous MrGreenMan February 27, 2015 12:54 PM  

Their crime is - at this point, it is so incredibly boring.

Yes, yes, we know - you want to offend middle class sensibilities. We've seen it before. There is no new offense. It is so incredibly boring and has reached the level of the banal.

Yes, yes, here's a gay character where there shouldn't be one. Are you shocked? Yes, yes, here's a woman character where you expected a man. Are you shocked? Yes, yes, here's a man where you expected a woman. Are you shocked? Yes, yes, third gender, genderqueer, parts-don't-match-personality. Are you shocked?

No, not shocked - incredibly bored.

Blogger Joshua Dyal February 27, 2015 12:54 PM  

Whoops! I was responding to this: What is it with physically repellent people and their obsession with lionising outcasts and freaks?

Anonymous GreyS February 27, 2015 12:59 PM  

The worst offense here is that it is utterly and painfully unimaginative. The lack of depth and the color-by-numbers obviousness can only appeal to small numbers of people, while the SJW cheerleading clique plays the SFF version of The Emperors New Clothes.

Seriously-- how can readership not drop off when crap like this is what is promoted?

Blogger Scott Rassbach February 27, 2015 1:01 PM  

Further in the Tor promotional blog, there was this excerpt:

“That big, industrial, ridiculous, totally overengineered, souped-up-to-Jesus Singer… The one that Priya and Lizzie had been hot-rodding for weeks, with the ornamental metal plates all over the armature, and Miss Lizzie’s diesel engine welded in beside the hydraulics.”

'souped-up' is from the 1920s, Hot-rodding from the 1940s. The Diesel engine didn't come into use until the 1900s.

This was supposed to take place in ... late 1800s? 1880 or so? Language and tech don't match up at all. That, in and of itself, makes me not want to read it. I get it's fantasy, but 'souped-up' and 'diesel' are both contextual words (souped-up from supercharger, Diesel is a guy's name). Even alternate history should have some research to it. Rename it a paraffin oil engine if you want to backdate it.

Anonymous Rabbi B February 27, 2015 1:05 PM  

"Why we fight . . . [b]ecause this is what happens when you don't . . ."

I can't help seeing Biblical parallels which not only serve in highlighting the spirit of these usurpers, but which also provide a template for how to deal with these cowards:

When the enemies of Judah and Benjamin heard that the exiles were building a temple for the L--rd, the G-d of Israel, they came to Zerubbabel and to the heads of the families and said, “Let us help you build because, like you, we seek your G-d and have been sacrificing to him since the time of Esarhaddon king of Assyria, who brought us here.”

"But Zerubbabel, Joshua and the rest of the heads of the families of Israel answered, “You have no part with us in building a temple to our G-d. We alone will build it for the L-rd, the G-d of Israel, as King Cyrus, the king of Persia, commanded us.”

"Then the peoples around them set out to discourage the people of Judah and make them afraid to go on building. They bribed officials to work against them and frustrate their plans during the entire reign of Cyrus king of Persia and down to the reign of Darius king of Persia" (Ezra 4)

BS . . . they are not like us, they do not seek what we do, and they are in NO WAY interested in helping us build anything. THEY HAVE NO PART WITH US, and that is a drum we need to continue beating relentlessly.

They are scheming to harm us and our reply should be no different:

"But they were scheming to harm me; so I sent messengers to them with this reply: “I am carrying on a great project and cannot go down. Why should the work stop while I leave it and go down to you?” Four times they sent me the same message, and each time I gave them the same answer."

I sent him this reply: “Nothing like what you are saying is happening; you are just making it up out of your head.”
They were all trying to frighten us, thinking, “Their hands will get too weak for the work, and it will not be completed.”(Nehemiah 6)

Vox is right, we need to strap on our weapons with a sword in one hand and a trowel in the other. Like modern-day Nehemiah's, we should never be intimidated even for one moment. If we hold fast and FINISH what we have started, with a tenacious determination to repair the ruins, they will lose all of their self confidence and retreat.

"Then, the fifth time, Sanballat sent his aide to me with the same message . . . I sent him this reply: “Nothing like what you are saying is happening; you are just making it up out of your head.”

It really is that simple. Delusional people making all manner of things up out of their heads, intoxicated by their own importance and 'moral' superiority.

"But I said, “Should a man like me run away? Or should someone like me go into the temple to save his life? I will not go!”" (Nehemiah 6)

Should Dread Ilk like us run away? I think not.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2015 1:08 PM  

" I would genuinely rather read an IMF paper on the monetary policy of Zambia"

hey now... its fantasy... and I guarantee its a comedy.

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 1:10 PM  

Tor needs to reverse their name. False advertising issues and all.


"Why no were-manatees?"

Given the author, the fun would be overloaded by that point.

Blogger Chiva February 27, 2015 1:10 PM  

@Rabbi B. Nicely said.

Anonymous Sheila February 27, 2015 1:12 PM  

This stuff is everywhere. I've recently tried reading some survivalist/prepper fiction. Aside from the generally poor quality of writing, every last one has tatooed, White biker gangs as the bad guys preying on people during TEOTWAWKI, plus a magic negro or two in case the reader hasn't gotten the message loud and clear. There is literally no genre of fiction that is free of this rot.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2015 1:12 PM  

Jesus... didn't these idiots see Rocky Horror?

This isn't new or cutting edge. Its been going on since the fucking 70s.

Blogger hank.jim February 27, 2015 1:19 PM  

Who will read such a book? It will indeed have a small audience who likes such crap. It seems like it covers all the bases. It's a new project that Patricia Arquette can option to make right with all the women, gays, lesbians, transgenders, and race diversity people that she offended on Oscarina Night.

Anonymous Stilicho February 27, 2015 1:20 PM  

didn't these idiots see Rocky Horror?

Sure, but they thought no one else had seen it so it could be safely copied and claimed as an original perspective. So brave.

Blogger Danby February 27, 2015 1:28 PM  

So the synopsis above lists 3 Blacks.

In 19th century Seattle.

About 3x the actual Black population, and all of them women.

The whores of 19th Century Seattle were Indian and Asian. Not mostly, not overwhelmingly, entirely. Any white woman who made it to the far NW before the Alaska Gold Rush didn't have to turn tricks. She would have her pick of sugar daddies, including marriage if she were so inclined.

And Black women simply didn't exist. Period.

But I guess Seattle is trendy, and queer as a fruitbat these days, so we'll set the story there. It's like setting a story about a bunch of abolitionists in 1820's Selma Alabama.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2015 1:31 PM  

"It's like setting a story about a bunch of abolitionists in 1820's Selma Alabama."

Not to derail here... but there were a bunch of abolitionist organizations based in the south... an argument could be made that most of them were based in the South... and the slavery debate was certainly alive and rolling in the 1820s.

OpenID genericviews February 27, 2015 1:31 PM  

Because reading about a dissatisfied whore while being subjected to a sermon on the importance of diversity in sexual orientation, race, and transgenderism ...

All it needs to become the next classic Sci-Fi epic is a few laser beams and a "fully functional" android.

Anonymous Ain February 27, 2015 1:39 PM  

These people are impossible to parody.

Anonymous hygate February 27, 2015 1:41 PM  

It is ranked #25 under the catagory steampunk on Amazon. So I clicked the link to steampunk best sellers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/3559312011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_4_last#2

Those book covers are for romance novels. Is this what we have come to? Sweet meteorite of doom smash us into dust now.

Anonymous Stilicho February 27, 2015 1:44 PM  

It is ranked #25 under the catagory steampunk on Amazon.

Steamypunk?

Anonymous Severian February 27, 2015 1:44 PM  

love that they never notice that they're essentially having all their little tokens LARP as straight white folk. Oh, the irony.

What's sad is, you could make a decently entertaining story with this kind of "subversive" element front and center. What if, say, you had a kind of ship-based culture like in CJ Cherryh's "Company Wars," where clans of people live for generations on sub-light-speed freighters. A hermaphrodite prostitute that could switch sexes at will -- bioengineering of some sort -- might be a handy thing to have aboard, and could get into all kinds of intrigues. Real cloak-and-dagger stuff, switching between sexes. Ok, so it's maybe not a great premise, but wouldn't you at least consider reading it if the hermaphrodite was an assassin or something? And you got Larry Correia in to write all the gun parts? Better than this "it's the Old West, but everyone's gay and they have cars for some reason" stuff, no?

Anonymous ? February 27, 2015 1:45 PM  

This was supposed to take place in ... late 1800s? 1880 or so? Language and tech don't match up at all.

In "steampunk" you can pretend technology got invented earlier than it really did, I guess.

Blogger automatthew February 27, 2015 1:45 PM  

Nate: "Not to derail here…"

Too late. I'm already listening to Hoyt Axton's performance of "I'm a good old rebel".

Anonymous Leonidas February 27, 2015 1:45 PM  

That excerpt in the original post somehow contains 5 paragraphs with 334 words and nothing about any actual plot. Does anything actually happen in this book?

Wow, that read like a parody of SJW chick-lit...

It really is becoming hard to tell the parody from the reality.

Anonymous jack February 27, 2015 1:48 PM  

It was physically painful to read that excerpt. I wanted to cry for civilization.
After Nate's comment about abolitionists in the old South, I want to google up or find some reference material on that. Never considered that part of our Southern heritage.
Interesting.

Blogger luagha February 27, 2015 1:50 PM  

Unsurprisingly, Terry Pratchett already did this ten thousand times better in 'Monstrous Regiment.'

Spoiler warning: Everyone in Monstrous Regiment is cross-dressing. Everyone.

Because drag is always funny, that's why.

Anonymous hygate February 27, 2015 1:55 PM  

Its chicklit, you just know its mostly everybody talking about feelings.

How they feel, how they think someone else feels, how they feel about how someone else feels, how they feel about the fact that someone doesn't feel what they want them to feel, their feeling concerning their childhood, their feelings concerning their father, their feeling concerning their mother and siblings (the bitches), their feelings concerning their friends, their feeling concerning their enemies, their feeling concerning the shop girl who they barely know.

And then, and only then will some small amount of action occur, and by action I mean some mishap that would not have happened if people had communicated actual useful information to each other, after which there will be 50 additional pages on how everyone feels about what happened.

Anonymous Nathanael February 27, 2015 2:10 PM  

"After Nate's comment about abolitionists in the old South, I want to google up or find some reference material on that. Never considered that part of our Southern heritage.
Interesting."

Yes, over two-thirds of anti-slavery societies were in the South. Calling them "abolitionist" isn't strictly accurate, since Abolitionism implied a whole range of social views beyond merely being anti-slavery. Southern anti-slavery societies tended to focus more on the detrimental effect slavery had on free white labor, not wanting to live around Africans, and trying to return them to Africa as opposed to the Yankee Aboltionists' moral pontificating about the inherent eviliness of white Southerners, wanting slaverowners mass murdered by a slave uprising, and calling for complete social equality between the races.

OpenID The Practical Conservative February 27, 2015 2:29 PM  

Danby, you're wrong. Seattle's most prominent brothel was started by a German woman and there were white Seattle prostitutes. I'm local enough to be familiar with the history of this region. There were almost no black men or women though, that is accurate to the late 19th century for the region. What blacks there were mostly farmed far from city centers.

The book is selling briskly, which is surprising for steampunk (tends to not have huge sales in general), but we'll see how it goes a couple months from now. I agree that all the sexual deviance is silly, but steampunk has mostly gone in that direction at the expense of interesting alt-history exploration. It's one of the reasons historical fiction writers are not the biggest fans of the genre, it makes it hard for their detail-oriented audiences to find them in searches.

Anonymous BigGaySteve February 27, 2015 2:33 PM  

Reading the last article I was glad I have never had to lie like Pim Fortuyn did about having black boyfriends. The bouncers in gay bars are a joke. Many gays would rather be victims than hurt their attackers, or even admit the race of attackers. I suspect their single moms told them not to fight back. SJWs don't like gays that actually defend themselves because its never against STR8 YT church going men.

I was banned from one gay bar for bringing the police to them. It was a new bar about 30 min farther away from the ones I usually go to & a grandpa Moses(their best customer) rooffied my friend. The bouncers claimed he just drank too much and the bouncers just did posturing to try to intimidate me, but he is a type 1 diabetic so getting passed out drunk in 10 min while being groped by a white haired man was not likely. Because of conflict avoidance my friend didn't want to press charges, but at least cops had a name/face if someone else was a victim.

We went back there a couple weeks later and the bouncers told me I was banned for bringing the cops in. The victim was not banned, grandpa Moses was not banned, the heroine physique guy that shot a cell phone video wasn't banned, I was banned because I was the only one that made it a problem. I am 6'3", with broad shoulders & used my outdoor voice for the interaction. My friend the victim didn't want to make a scene but since I was banned anyway I said "you guys are just bouncers, is there a manager here with balls enough to leave a message on my voicemail that I am banned for brining the cops in" You know that posturing doesn't work on anyone that has won a street fight, I was sucker punched by a pack of n1ggers while unarmed and still won the fight." "after I drop him off I will come back to either the parking lot or the street to warn people about grandpa Moses trying to roofie pretty boys, you will have to call the cops to stop me".

Of course we just went to another bar & didn't go back but I did contact the cop from before to let her know about it. The bouncers looked like they needed a feinting couch. The bar closed about a year later. SJWs like gay bouncers posture but are not prepared for a punch in the face. If you send your kids to martial arts, even if they end up being gay they wont be SJW gay.

"I get it's fantasy, but 'souped-up' and 'diesel' are both contextual words "
Diesel is a type of lesbian similar to biker dykes.

Anonymous Rabbi B February 27, 2015 2:38 PM  

Even non-Biblical sources can prove instructive:

"An Afghan refugee reads verses of the Quran during the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan, in a mosque on the outskirts of Islamabad, Pakistan, Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2012. Muslims throughout the world are marking the month of Ramadan, the holiest month in Islamic calendar.

Koffar (unbelievers) do not have a right to know what Islam teaches.

1.) It is sinful for Muslims to take non-Muslims as friends or protectors unless it is for the purpose of using the non-Muslims to accomplish the goals of Islam. It is not a sin if Muslims “make taqiyya” – use deception – to protect themselves or Islam.

2.) Muslims must lie if it is the only way to achieve an obligatory goal of Islam, especially the maqasid al-sharia, the ultimate goal.

3.) The most important goal Muslims must achieve is to spread deen, the worship of Allah through Islam.

4.) It is sinful for Muslims to allow non-Muslims to look down on Muslims or Islam in any way.

5.) Finally, the purpose of ghayra violence [up to and including honor killing] is to al-amr bi al-ma’ruf wa al-nahy ‘an al-munkar – to enjoin good and forbid evil as defined by the moral rules of sharia.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2015/02/27/6-eye-opening-things-you-might-not-have-known-about-islam-from-a-top-shariah-lawyer/#full

Do these tactics sound familiar? Easy enough to do the algebra:

1.) It is sinful for SJWs to take non-SJWs as friends or protectors unless it is for the purpose of using the non-SJWs to accomplish the goals of Entryism. It is not a sin if SJWs “make taqiyya” – use deception – to protect themselves or Entryism.

2.) SJWs must lie if it is the only way to achieve an obligatory goal of Entryism, especially the maqasid al-sharia, Social Justice, the ultimate goal.

3.) The most important goal SJWs must achieve is to spread deen, the religion of Social Justice through Entryism.

4.) It is sinful for SJWs to allow non-SJWs to look down on SJWs or Entryism in any way.

5.) Finally, the purpose of ghayra violence [up to and including honor killing] is to al-amr bi al-ma’ruf wa al-nahy ‘an al-munkar – to enjoin good and forbid evil as defined by the moral rules of Social Justice.

Anonymous Daniel February 27, 2015 2:56 PM  

It actually does sound like loads to me. But maybe I'm confusing it with a constipated woman screaming in agony. On the bright side, you can use it as authentic lady pain sounds as required by Sarkeesian. If SJWs are good at anything, it is making irritating noise.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2015 3:04 PM  

You know the Japanese totally give a damn what yankee roundeye girl thinks.

Anonymous Stilicho February 27, 2015 3:17 PM  

That's rather insightful, Rabbi, and it helps explain why those birds tend to flock together.

Anonymous Noah B. February 27, 2015 3:18 PM  

She doesn't want to upset the Japanese, they eat whales over there.

Anonymous Corvinus February 27, 2015 3:21 PM  

UPDATE: Bandai Namco sensitively responds to SJW concerns by providing new armor for female characters Ivy and Amy. Happy now?

The good old Japs sending an ever-so-polite "f*** you" to the SJWs. Gotta love 'em.

Anonymous Stilicho February 27, 2015 3:21 PM  

@ Rabbi B: Secular Jihadi Wannabes

Blogger Rabbi B February 27, 2015 3:23 PM  

"Secular Jihadi Wannabes"

+1

Anonymous Big Bill February 27, 2015 3:27 PM  

I rather like the softening up. She is teaching SJWs that you don't have to chop off your one-eyed-wonder-worm to be a for-real transsexual. Of course you don't have to _dress_ like a stereotypical woman to be a woman either (as crew cut bull dykes will gladly tell you.

So, combining the two together, you can keep your junk like a regular guy, dress like a regular guy, chase broads like a regular guy, and _still_ be a female. All because you feel like a girl "deep down inside".

You can instantly go from being a cis het white oppressor male to a no-conversion bull dyke lesbian transexual simply by telling people you "feel like a girl deep down inside."

Pretty cool. Instant victimhood.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 3:53 PM  

So, Bass Reeves was a real person (see my link above), and the most famous historical prostitute in Seattle was born in Germany and ran an upscale brothel with educated white women.

But actually interjecting facts into fiction is " this SJW shit." Got it.

Anonymous Longo February 27, 2015 3:59 PM  

I would genuinely rather read an IMF paper on the monetary policy of Zambia or Newton's Principia. In Latin.

So go ahead and do so. I thought you just wanted to be left alone to read/write right-wing sci-fi. What is the problem with others reading/writing liberal sci-fi?

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 4:00 PM  

But actually interjecting facts into fiction is " this SJW shit." Got it.

Playing passive-aggressive and obtuse isn't attractive to women, Chris. What is "this SJW shit" is "gleefully subverts gender roles" and "the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm" which is "one of the major themes of Karen Memory".

I know you're not as stupid as you are pretending to be here. So precisely what do you hope to accomplish by playing dumb?

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 4:01 PM  

What is the problem with others reading/writing liberal sci-fi?

Pretending it isn't liberal sci-fi.

Anonymous Stickwick February 27, 2015 4:05 PM  

Geez, it just never stops, does it?

My husband and I watch The Walking Dead, mostly just to see where the story is going. We give it the MST3K treatment, and it has its moments. There hasn't been a whole lot of SJW nonsense -- I can buy that the women can neutralize zombies in large numbers, because these particular zombies are very slow, very brittle, and about as difficult to dispatch as herd of sleeping aardvarks. But now we've been slammed into SJW territory with the last episode, which revealed that a new character is gay. How do we find out he's gay? He walks over and gives his lover a big, wet, romantic kiss. That's the last episode I'll be watching. It'll be interesting to see if viewership is at all affected by this.

Blogger Chris Scena February 27, 2015 4:17 PM  

Stickwick,

I had that happen with Penny Dreadful on Showtime. Strange show, somewhat interesting, but about the third or fourth episode, big gay kiss (then implied sex with cuddling afterward) that made absolutely no sense. I haven't watched it since and will not again in the future.

I have no problem with gay characters. I have a big problem with gay characters being shoved down my throat just to show them being there.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 4:24 PM  

Vox:

One of the Sad Puppies defenders argued that SPs weren't against the white-washing of history. I linked him to here.

I'm not playing dumb. I'm pointing out that history as taught by high school football coaches is flawed. Gays, blacks and women played significant roles in history but got literally written out of that history.

Anonymous Salt February 27, 2015 4:31 PM  

But now we've been slammed into SJW territory with the last episode, which revealed that a new character is gay. How do we find out he's gay? He walks over and gives his lover a big, wet, romantic kiss.

Yeah. Bit of a sudden stunner. I was informed that these characters are in the comic or whatever; not thrown in just because.

Blogger toadbile February 27, 2015 4:40 PM  

"Shoggoths in Bloom" was about how the lovecraftian beasties were a created slave race of the Old Ones and therefore only a Black Man with Authentic Slave Blood (TM) could possibly understand their plight and set them free. Pushy white guilt; last thing by Bear i ever read.

Every contemporary TV show (i am t0ld by reliable viewers) has a gay couple who are infallibly perfect in style, morals, kindness, ethics, beauty, wealth and grace. They are in every case perfect humans, which is to say they are not human at all. They have no faults and are not even allowed faults lest the writers be accuse of homophobia for daring to depict a gay character with some human weakness (see Silence of the Lambs.) This is not like Mrs Minerva (1942) wherein "he is the only nazi we have" so he has to be a totally evil nazi, or like the one and only american indian in so many movies being the stoic, heroic, indomitable, animal-charming nature god - in Dances with Wolves we finally saw enough Indian characters that some of them could be fools or even assholes. But no matter how many gays are on the screen they must all be perfect. I will expect that the same conventions apply to pink SF gays.

Going out to where i buried the TV in '96 to pile on a couple more rocks.


Anonymous Longo February 27, 2015 4:43 PM  

Pretending it isn't liberal sci-fi.

Who's doing that? Certainly not Bear.

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 4:54 PM  

" I'm pointing out that history as taught by high school football coaches is flawed. "

So you're saying that the physically stronger, mentally fit and goal-determined don't ultimately win out over the weaker, socially dysfunctional, and short-time preferenced, and that natural selection doesn't work out in the end. In other words, are you denying evolution as taught as an historic fact?...

OpenID littl3x February 27, 2015 4:56 PM  

I think this is in the "don't like/don't read" category.

Reading about prostitutes, gay or otherwise, doesn't appeal to mea. and quite frankly, I don't understand why people like to write about them. But I don't think that the fact that it has been published is that big of a concern. As long as they aren't pressuring people to buy it, then I don't care. We can make our own stuff, and as you've shown, you do make your own stuff.

I know that SJWS like to push people around and make demands, and I know that the poison institutions, but this is a little different. If something gets published, and there is a market for it, who am I to try to force them to not publish it?

Blogger Daniel February 27, 2015 4:56 PM  

I have a big problem with gay characters being shoved down my throat just to show them being there.

Yeah, but the other aperture isn't any more pleasant. That's where its going next.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 27, 2015 5:04 PM  

My husband and I watch The Walking Dead, mostly just to see where the story is going. We give it the MST3K treatment, and it has its moments. There hasn't been a whole lot of SJW nonsense -- I can buy that the women can neutralize zombies in large numbers, because these particular zombies are very slow, very brittle, and about as difficult to dispatch as herd of sleeping aardvarks. But now we've been slammed into SJW territory with the last episode, which revealed that a new character is gay. How do we find out he's gay? He walks over and gives his lover a big, wet, romantic kiss. That's the last episode I'll be watching. It'll be interesting to see if viewership is at all affected by this.

Sadly those two characters were in the graphic novel and both were gay lovers, although in the graphic novel it wasn't revealed until one of them died.

Did you miss last season with the lesbian couple? One of them is still alive and kicking too. She'll probably find a new fling in the Alexandria safe-zone.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 5:05 PM  

So you're saying that the physically stronger, mentally fit and goal-determined don't ultimately win out over the weaker, socially dysfunctional, and short-time preferenced, you're assuming that the non- straight white men are weaker, etc.

In any case, the validity of your assumption is not at issue. All those "socially dysfunctional" etc. people did in fact make contributions to society. There was in fact a black US Marshall running around in the American West and there was in fact a high-class whorehouse in Seattle, the madam of which made enough money to become one of the wealthiest people in the city.

Chris Scena - how is the gay character "shoved down your throat?" It's one character out of a herd of them who shows up. The only way said character could be less obtrusive would be to not appear at all.

Blogger Franz Lionheart February 27, 2015 5:08 PM  

New armor for female characters Ivy and Amy. Happy now? No, apparently not.

Too much clothing. She wears much more than "just shoes". The solution is clear:

We need to send the SJW harpies to Germany, to Austria, to Tyrol for (Après) Skiing. Should help them relax, let their hair down:

Hey! Sie hatte nur noch Schuhe an!

Anonymous Scythian Arrows February 27, 2015 5:10 PM  

Reading "subversion of the dominant white male paradigm" gave me the horrid mental image of several bespectacled, short-haired, presumably female shoggoths high-fiving each other for being 3edgy5me, in between guttural outbursts of "U GO GRRRRRLZ" and the inhalation of cupcakes.

If I wanted to spend money to be bored to death by way of word salad, I'd just go back to college.

Blogger borderwalker February 27, 2015 5:13 PM  

Chris, do you know what "outlier" means?
Chris, do you know the difference between "anecdote" and "data"?

Danby's original statment is easy to falsify because it's absolute ("Not mostly, not overwhelmingly, entirely.")

Even if "the most famous ... prostitute in Seattle was born in Germany", it doesn't change the fact that 1880's Seattle prostitutes were mostly Asian and Indian, or the simple fact of Lou Graham's elite clientele and high social status made her, by definition, an outlier.

Yes, there was a black Marshal. A famous one. There may have even been more than one black Marshal (eventually), but the article you linked to also states that Reeves was the "first African=American deputy west of the Mississisppi River. Again, by definition, an outlier.


I'm pointing out that history as taught by high school football coaches is flawed.

All history is flawed. Amazing insight there.

Gays, blacks and women played significant roles in history...

For some values of "significant", I supposed so.

...but got written out of that history.

I've never been able to figure out how people who were so marginalized and so oppressed contributed so much to history that their contributions had to be concealed.

It is more like their contributions were minor (limited by their oppressed, marginalized state), and get left out of the broad, generalized histories appropriate for school-aged children and, as you so elegantly put it, "...taught by high school football coaches"? (The best history teacher I had in all 12 years of public education was a football coach. Guess that's an outlier, too.)

For example, does a history of the American Civil War appropriate for high school really need to mention the women who fought dressed as men, since there were no more than a dozen among the hundreds of thousands who fought on both sides? If so, why? To make the girls feel better about themselves.

Anonymous A. Nonymous February 27, 2015 5:18 PM  

I'm not playing dumb.

No, you're just flat-out dumb.

Blogger S1AL February 27, 2015 5:20 PM  

Chris, how is it, if these people were "literally written out of that history," that we know about them?

Furthermore, as I pointed out in threads on sites ranging from Brad's to yours to file770, you are actually inventing - contrary to visible reality - instance in which this "whitewashing" is occurring. Thus far you have failed to accurately identify a single source... Your only comment on that in this thread is indicating that Reeves was an historical figure; I don't see anywhere here where that was disputed.

In rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are personally whitewashing movies and books by making assumptions or forgetting contrary evidence and then you are projecting that habit onto other people.

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 5:20 PM  

I'm not playing dumb. I'm pointing out that history as taught by high school football coaches is flawed. Gays, blacks and women played significant roles in history but got literally written out of that history.

You absolutely are playing dumb. And now you're being dishonest. You didn't point anything out. You made a false and disingenuous claim about what "this SJW shit" is.

Do you admit that "this SJW shit" is what "gleefully subverts gender roles" and "the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm"?

Yes or no?

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 5:23 PM  

"you're assuming that the non- straight white men are weaker, etc. "

There's the story, and then there's the real world. Both were brought up in the article. That's what's being discussed here.

"In any case, the validity of your assumption is not at issue."

Come on. You didn't even try historical contingency as a disqualifier, even after I left a nice bit of bait there at the tail end.

But please, avoid answering direct questions by skirting around the issue, by all means.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 5:27 PM  

Borderwalker - I think you've moved the goalposts a bit. (Actually, a lot.) The original post was "OMG, this book has all these impossible characters in it!"

Then, I and a couple of others, using 5 minutes worth of Google, said, "well, no, actually a lot of them were real people or based on same."

Now, your post is "but these were only a few outliers!"

Fine, they are outliers. But despite oppression, they existed, which makes one wonder how many would have existed had entire classes of people not exist. Secondly, most novels end up being about outliers. Reading a book about an ordinary dirt farmer farming dirt ordinarily would be God-awful boring.

No, we want to read about the character who did something extraordinary. In fact, I recall somebody did a comic book series about a "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen."

For example, does a history of the American Civil War appropriate for high school really need to mention the women who fought dressed as men, since there were no more than a dozen Google tells me 400-750. We don't know, since many of them didn't get caught. If so, why? - Because it's the truth? Why is the simple truth - a one-line statement that "several hundred women dressed as men and fought" so threatening?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 27, 2015 5:28 PM  

Of course women or whomever isn't happy or satisfied, they are not capable or normal to be happy. Hence, there will be ZERO COOPERATION AND SUBMISSION to their nonsense.

The 'reading above' was trashtastic and nauseating to point of counter acting my phengren. Same sex, mixed this/that, lez, whores, brothels, what is the point of Memery's work - No what, reading comp fail, steam punk advent-r? A review of what, she should shope her work to mainstream tv, give it to MSNBC as well. They can have a reading roundtable celebrating all the diversity and lack of racism.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 27, 2015 5:29 PM  

Oh wait I forgot, women fail STEM + hg. (History and mappies like geography.)

Anonymous Eric Ashley February 27, 2015 5:31 PM  

One would think, considering what a slaughterhouse the ACW was, that staying out of the madness would make women feel better about themselves. At least it used too.

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 5:31 PM  

But, wait. A thought.

If these non-outlier pillars of society - too numerous and accomplished to mention here - were written out of history, and history is ultimately written by the victors....


Dear God. No.

Y U NO HISTORICAL, ALCIBIADES.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 5:32 PM  

S1AL - from the original post (emphasis mine) "Because reading about a dissatisfied whore while being subjected to a sermon on the importance of diversity in sexual orientation, race, and transgenderism"

Kh123 - Your assumption that gays and women aren't goal-oriented is flawed, rendering the rest of your statement meaningless.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 27, 2015 5:32 PM  

I wasn't going to bring the clothing issue around again but these days women wear open panel undies or webbed meaning no center thong string. See Fredericks of Hollywood.com

Overall, red is impressive (a little occultist) to some but cute outfits. Far superior than my ideas.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 27, 2015 5:35 PM  

Some women and the GLT, etc., have plenty of ambition, the problem is it mostly likely produces more STD's and broken lives.

Oh sure, they are hardworking. Great, lets give the Post Americants all women, gay men, the trans-types. Let them set public policy starting with books, arts, gaming, etc., they'd fail.

Anonymous Stickwick February 27, 2015 5:36 PM  

swiftfoxmark2: Sadly those two characters were in the graphic novel and both were gay lovers, although in the graphic novel it wasn't revealed until one of them died.

The thing is, I don't really care if there are gay characters in a story. What I don't like is: a) making them unrealistically virtuous, powerful, smart, heroic, etc., just to show how much better they are than the hetero characters; b) any open sexual stuff, like romantic kissing, implied sex, etc.; c) the big "Haha, guess what? They were GAY, take THAT!" reveal at some critical point in the story. The writers try to invest you in the characters without giving you this information, and instead of revealing it in some organic way, they spring it on you in some jarring way or at a point where you have to go back and revise everything you were led to believe about those characters.

Did you miss last season with the lesbian couple? One of them is still alive and kicking too. She'll probably find a new fling in the Alexandria safe-zone.

I completely forgot about that. I remember rolling my eyes at it, but somehow the portrayal of post-apocalyptic lesbians wasn't as off-putting as the big reveal in the last episode.

Blogger S1AL February 27, 2015 5:41 PM  

Chris - and, once again, you've failed to understand the difference between "diversity" and "the importance of diversity." Furthermore, there's the hilarious fact that this woman couldn't be bothered to research the *actual* demographic diversity of the Northwest and instead inserted historically-inaccurate characters. There's a *lot* of fascinating history with regards to the Oregon Territory. I was born there. I know what the people look like. My church in Portland had alternative services on Saturdays for Korean immigrants.

But *that's not the point.*

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 5:41 PM  

"Your assumption that gays and women aren't goal-oriented..."

Ah yes, fecundity. I keep forgetting how small a part that plays in historical terms.

Because this time, things will be different.

Blogger Danby February 27, 2015 5:43 PM  

@Chris Gerrib
Lou Graham arrived in Seattle just in time for the Yukon gold rush. If you look at my comment, you will see that I specifically excluded that time period.

Marshall Reeves lived and worked in the Indian Territory, and never went to Seattle in his life.

In the 1880 census in Seattle listed 17 Negroes.

Not including Bass Reeves.

Seattle was the least-Black place on Earth in the late 19th century. Hell, even into the 1970s.

I grew up there. Take your google-Fu and shove it.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 5:46 PM  

S1AL - please, educate me on "the difference between "diversity" and "the importance of diversity."

couldn't be bothered to research the *actual* demographic diversity of the Northwest if you had gotten as far as the end of chapter 1, you would have found out that the women who cause the first gunfight were both Asian.

You would have also noted that we're talking about Seattle, not Portland. In any event, the whole point of "alternate history" is to take what happened and change it up.

Blogger S1AL February 27, 2015 5:51 PM  

You need to be educated on the difference between quantifiable reality and moral philosophy? Really?

I was referencing the insertion of black characters for no reason, in a location where that makes no sense.

And if you were at all aware of the layout of Oregon and Washington, you would understand that the difference between Portland and Seattle is negligible. I mentioned Portland because I was born there. I have visited Seattle many times, as recently as 3 years ago.

Anonymous Scythian Arrows February 27, 2015 5:51 PM  

Chris, just admit it, you want to fill SF with diversity hires and claim it is something groundbreaking.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 5:52 PM  

Danby - again, had you read chapter 1, you'd know that the story is set during the 1890s - when Seattle was raising the streets but hadn't raised the buildings. I'm not sure where you get 3 blacks - Priya is Asian. As I pointed out above, the whole point of alternate history is to change some facets of it. In any event, Reeves is in town pursuing a fugitive, not permanently.

Blogger Danby February 27, 2015 6:01 PM  

@Chris,
"had you read chapter 1"

Why on earth would I do that? I already have a church. If I want to be preached to I'll go there. If I want to be preached AT, and to have someone to tell me I'm evil because I'm white and Christian, I'll just shoot myself instead.

And in 1900, the Black population of Seattle was all the way up to 423.

So where's the white washing? You've been asked several times for specifics, and instead you throw out another claim, and some abuse.

Blogger Marissa February 27, 2015 6:09 PM  

Reading about prostitutes, gay or otherwise, doesn't appeal to mea. and quite frankly, I don't understand why people like to write about them. But I don't think that the fact that it has been published is that big of a concern.

Brothels are in nearly every TV show on HBO. It's an obsession to normalize something as fun and hip that is clearly old as the hills and depressing as hell.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 6:11 PM  

Danby - the original post complained about racial inaccuracies. There are two (2) characters whose race is mentioned - one who happens to be a historical figure and one who apparently "passes" for white. How much more specific do I need to be?

In any event, there were blacks in Seattle, so why is it a problem if we see a couple of them in a novel?

Blogger luagha February 27, 2015 6:20 PM  

'Science fiction' usually involves one big scientific difference and then extrapolation from there. If an author introduces too many scientific changes that are unrelated from one another, he usually ends up with a mishmash.

In the same way, 'alternate history' relies on one change and the necessary extrapolations from there. If an author makes too many changes that are unrelated to one another, he usually ends up with a mishmash.

It's okay to have one black Federal Marshall. It's not to have ten.
It's okay to have one female samurai, obviously based on Tomoe Gozen from 'The Tale Of The Heike'. It's not okay to squadrons of them.

When you hit three unrelated anachronisms, the reader is forced to go, "Okay, now you're just shitting me," and lose suspension of disbelief.

Blogger Nate February 27, 2015 6:20 PM  

"After Nate's comment about abolitionists in the old South, I want to google up or find some reference material on that. Never considered that part of our Southern heritage.
Interesting."

Very few people in the South were actually pro-slavery. Most, including plantation owners, didn't like slavery at all. The problem was figuring out how to end it. it was a huge problem. There was a big camp that believed that a startegic mistake in ending slavery would end up with cities in America turning into black populated hell holes that would ultimately turn america into a police state do to the violence it would take to control the freed slaves.

...

awkward...

Anonymous Joe Author February 27, 2015 6:27 PM  

“Now, you can either submit to this SJW shit, or you can help us keep it out of games and take back science fiction. What will it be?”

No one has to submit to anything. It really doesn’t matter if Karen Memery is ugly, or that Anita Sarkeesian is batshit insane.

Keep "Pink SF" out of the material YOU create? Absolutely. Keep it out of science fiction? You can try, but there will always be someone who will peddle what they want to produce. Buy it, don’t buy it. Like it, don’t like it.

Ultimately, authors and game creators have the liberty to create what they want to create, the way it has been or the way that it should be.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 6:32 PM  

If the majority of the South was against slavery, why, in the South Carolina Declaration of Secession, are the only reasons given for leaving the Union ones pertaining to slavery?

If most people didn't like slavery, why is "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals" an issue? Or " they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States" (creating abolitionist societies) a reason to leave the Union.

(All quotes directly from document linked above.)

Blogger Marissa February 27, 2015 6:35 PM  

There was a big camp that believed that a startegic mistake in ending slavery would end up with cities in America turning into black populated hell holes that would ultimately turn america into a police state do to the violence it would take to control the freed slaves.

Huh, it's not like that didn't pan out exactly as expected.

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 6:40 PM  

No one has to submit to anything. It really doesn’t matter if Karen Memery is ugly, or that Anita Sarkeesian is batshit insane.... Ultimately, authors and game creators have the liberty to create what they want to create, the way it has been or the way that it should be.

Welcome to #GamerGate. You really don't seem to understand how this works. Pink SF and the SJWs are attempting to drive out everything they don't approve of because they can't compete with it. The level playing field you support means they lose, most Pink SF fades back into the margins and romance sections, and games stay pretty much as they are.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW February 27, 2015 6:42 PM  

If the majority of the South was against slavery, why, in the South Carolina Declaration of Secession, are the only reasons given for leaving the Union ones pertaining to slavery?

There is good evidence that the majority of Americans are against open borders.

How is it that those who call themselves our leaders only seem to talk about more immigration?

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 6:42 PM  

In any event, there were blacks in Seattle, so why is it a problem if we see a couple of them in a novel?

Because the statistical improbability is such that it makes it obvious the author has an ideological agenda.

Now answer the question, Chris. This is the second time I've asked you. Do you admit that "this SJW shit" is what "gleefully subverts gender roles" and "the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm"?

Yes or no?

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 6:43 PM  

Pink SF and the SJWs are attempting to drive out everything they don't approve of - how is this book driving anything out? You are free to not read it and/or consume something more to your liking.

Blogger Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 6:52 PM  

Vox - I have not read past chapter 1. I suspect a novel in which the protagonist is a hooker does not treat men very nicely. Why is this a problem? Why must everything support the "dominant white male paradigm?" If it's dominant, why does it need support?

statistical improbability - I grew up in a town with maybe 20 blacks. They all knew each other and the 3 in my high school hung out together.

Curious but not an SJW - so millions of Southerners, including the plantation owners AKA political and economic leaders, went to war to defend an institution they disliked? And when, in late 1864 after a disastrous war, Lincoln offered to end the war and pay the South for slaves, they said no?

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 7:13 PM  

"...And thus, the kicking against nature's goads ceased, and the city repented of its ways. And only after STD figures plummeted did they realize that like much in life, the blessings of peace are hidden in the violence of action which births them, the pederast mayor of the city having been wiped clean from the face of the earth by both constituent and confectionery."


Simply some changing of facets. Thinking of calling it either Rainbow Unchained or A Twinkie in Milk.

Blogger Marissa February 27, 2015 7:14 PM  

Two more comments and you still can't answer the question, Chris.

I suspect a novel in which the protagonist is a hooker does not treat men very nicely.

Don't be coy, it's "dominant white male paradigm", not "men" in general.

This is why people even like you are insufferable.

Anonymous Steve February 27, 2015 7:18 PM  

Chris Gerrib - In fact, I recall somebody did a comic book series about a "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen."

Dibs on "The League of Extraordinary Victims".

Starring:

Sheena, the warrior-lesbian and leader of the crew. A badass woman Marine with the strength of 10 men or 50 Scalzis.

Ink-splotch, the genderqueer trans* two-spirit man-womyn who harnesses the uncanny power of gender pronouns to fight crime.

Muslor, the Moslem were-selkie, who uses his Religion of Peace martial arts training to behead Islamophobic Christians, before transforming into a selkie and fellating himself.

Requires Disdain - Vietnamese prostitute by day, ace computer hacker and Tumblr blogger by night.

Melaninoma - Her secret identity is K. "Temper" Bradford, a science fiction authoress with literally dozens of loyal readers. But when the bat-signal shines, she dons the mantle of Melaninoma, the world's greatest racial grievance detective.

The Hinesophile - little is known about this mysterious bald avenger, other than he drives a windowless van and is legally barred from going within 50 yards of a school.

Snarfzi - the comedy sidekick. A chubby little fellow who the heroes keep around for lulz, even when he feebly tries to hump the womens' legs.

I'll accept my Hugo award in cash.

Anonymous TWS February 27, 2015 7:24 PM  

My family was on the rez at the time except my great grandfather worked in the shipyards. Their were blacks. Damn few but they were well behaved and not the former slaves you'd find later. Later they resented the freed slaves etc that came later.

You want to write about blacks in Seattle during the thirties or Chinese during the railroad or goldrush eras fine you'll find plenty.

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 7:33 PM  

I have not read past chapter 1. I suspect a novel in which the protagonist is a hooker does not treat men very nicely. Why is this a problem? Why must everything support the "dominant white male paradigm?" If it's dominant, why does it need support?

I didn't say everything had to support anything. The reviewer, not me, said it is a work of subversion, both of gender roles and dominant paradigms. That means it is a work of destruction. It is consciously attempting to destroy our civilization and traditional concepts we hold to be of value.

Despite reading only that one chapter, you were previously able to declare what you believed "this SJW shit" to be. You claimed that it was "actually interjecting facts into fiction." Now, suddenly you are going to pretend that you aren't able to do so? No. You can't play your little conflict-avoidant games here, Chris. There is no point playing dumb or disingenuous with me. You already know it won't work.

You have a choice. Face direct conflict and risk losing, or avoid it, run away and lose face in front of everyone. You may not believe it, but the former is much more respected here and elsewhere.

So, for the third time, ANSWER THE QUESTION. Do you admit that "this SJW shit" is what "gleefully subverts gender roles" and "the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm"?

Yes or no? You can explain your answer however you like, but either begin with YES or NO, or slink away and do whatever it is that the conflict-avoidant do when they can't even answer a simple and straightforward question.

Anonymous Donn February 27, 2015 7:57 PM  

I don't see how that armor protects from anything but STDs (assuming of course that it functions as a chastity belt).

Blogger bob k. mando February 27, 2015 8:04 PM  

Because this is what happens when you don't:


and continues on through to Folsom Street.

http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/

Blogger Eric February 27, 2015 8:05 PM  

Whenever I bring up the Neo-Victorians from Stephenson's The Diamond Age, invariably the person I"m talking to says something along the lines of "You know, I would move there in a heartbeat."

That says more to me than any glowing review of what-the-hell-sexual stories.

Blogger James Schardt February 27, 2015 8:07 PM  

Vox, I've read the book. I honestly do not think that reviewer did. For example: Rapid city is not just a steampunk Seattle. It's an amalgamation of what you'd find in Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, and San Francisco. If the reviewer read the Author's Note at the end of the book she would have known that.

I'm planning on reviewing the book on the Otherwhere Gazette (I really need to get on that). I'll cover the supposed politics here as I'm going to try to keep them out of the actual review.

There are two black men in the book: Crispin the bouncer and Bass Reeves. Crispin I have a minor issue with. I see no reason to have made him gay. Whatever. He doesn't really do anything anyways. Bass Reeves was a real US Marshal and is believed to have been the basis for the Lone Ranger. Elizabeth Bear goes full Lone Ranger and gives him a Cherokee deputy named Tomoatooah. Tomoatooah is a lot like Tonto except he doesn't use pidgin English and isn't a punching bag.

Miss Francina is the other male that works at the brothel. Having a transexual in the book does help part of the plot. No, transsexuals are not "accepted" in Rapid City. At one point they come to arrest him because it's a guy in a dress. Madame Damnable gets mad at the cops, not because they are looking for a tranny, but because she had bribed them to look the other way and they weren't. Yeah, real subversive.

Priya is a Mary Sue.

The sewing machine is absurd.

I enjoyed the story but I think it could have been done better. If I had to rate it I'd give it three out of five stars.

Blogger bob k. mando February 27, 2015 8:20 PM  

from 1967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2UNcDHa5ao

notice the fascination even then with screwing each other in public spaces

Anonymous A Reader February 27, 2015 8:29 PM  

This book will be eligible for awards next year.

If this book wins the Hugo, then that would be a sign of the terrible state of science fiction. I must just abandon science fiction.
If it only gets nominated, it might not be so bad.
If the book doesn't get nominated at all, that would give hope for the future. Worldcon 2016 will be held in Kansas City, where the crowd will be more to right that the folks up in London.

Anonymous BigGaySteve February 27, 2015 8:43 PM  

"Gays, blacks and women played significant roles in history but got literally written out of that history. There was in fact a black US Marshall running around in the American West and there was in fact a high-class whorehouse in Seattle, the madam of which made enough money to become one of the wealthiest people in the city."

I am going to be honest there have been gay people who did great things but there is a limit to what can be taught. Middle school kids don't need to know that Davinci had a 15yo boyfriend in the twilight of his life. They don't need to know Oscar Wilde & Allen Turing both got in trouble because they where mean to their underage boyfriends. There are very few good gay role models in history, and SJW are against self defense so they wont teach about the Band of Thebes. There is no need to teach about prostitutes or drug dealers while those are illegal careers.

Oddly the most realistic gay character on TV is on Backstrom the gay hustler druggie. I used to work a job with a lot of travel where I would stay at a place for 1/4 of a year at a time or more. It was a task for Diogenes to find a gay in Miami & DC that didn't do drugs. One of my friends said I should move back to San Antonio because as long as you have a job you can get an 18yo Mexican boyfriend, but I couldn't find a good one or one that didn't do drugs even in my early 20s. Avoiding druggie boyfriends is not just a licensure issue anymore given the new property seizure rules. Any gay party can have casual sex even if someone's kids are attending. Here is 4 kids of LGBT speaking out against marriage.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/8/gay-couples-children-oppose-same-sex-marriage-tell/
"Dawn Stefanowicz said her gay father was so preoccupied with sex that when she was in high school and brought home a male classmate, both her father and his lover propositioned him for sex."

Davinci, Plato, Aristotle contributed to society but we don't need Marquis de Sade details taught to kids. If kids are gay they will figure things out on their own. As someone else here once said "Have you ever seen a black as smart as seen on TV?" I am going to say no even though the Soros Kool Aid says gays need black equality to get equal rights. Most black inventions have been disproved as myths. Some of us realize the left wants to use us to beat others over the head, in the form of useful idiots. http://www.gaypatriot.net/2015/02/23/obama-regime-panders-to-gay-progs-by-creating-useless-postion/
.

Anonymous George of the Jungle February 27, 2015 8:57 PM  

Borderwalker, your response is correct. Leftists in general, and SJW's in particular bend over backwards (or is is forewards?) to pretend that history's outliers somehow had more effect on later events than did the other 99.99%. We see this repeatedly from leftist trolls on this blog. It is an SJW conceit, and because it requires reality-avoidance, you will never be able to cut through the illogical feelings of the troll.

Anonymous zen0 February 27, 2015 9:04 PM  

@ BigGaySteve

One of my friends said I should move back to San Antonio because as long as you have a job you can get an 18yo Mexican boyfriend, but I couldn't find a good one or one that didn't do drugs even in my early 20s. Avoiding druggie boyfriends is not just a licensure issue anymore given the new property seizure rules.

Once you get on the perversion train, BGS, it seems petty to complain about the seating arrangements, yes?

Anonymous Heh February 27, 2015 9:08 PM  

If I want to be preached AT, and to have someone to tell me I'm evil because I'm white and Christian, I'll just shoot myself instead.

Actually you should point the gun in the other direction -- i.e., at the source of the problem.

Anonymous Bah February 27, 2015 9:11 PM  

Gays, blacks and women played significant roles in history but got literally written out of that history.

Horseshit.

And self-refuting.

If they were written out of history, you would be unable to demonstrate that they played a "significant role", because the sources needed to support that claim would not exist.

Anonymous zen0 February 27, 2015 9:23 PM  

@ Vox

Yes or no? You can explain your answer however you like, but either begin with YES or NO, or slink away and do whatever it is that the conflict-avoidant do when they can't even answer a simple and straightforward question.

@ Chris Gerrib

Vox - I have not read past chapter one


EPIC MASSIVE OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE ON BOARD....FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slink away and be honorable.

Its not in you, is it?

Blogger James Schardt February 27, 2015 9:25 PM  

Chris,

Karen Memory is about as subversive as a prank phone call.

Heck, the main character is a staunch Republican.

Anonymous zen0 February 27, 2015 9:29 PM  

@ Chris Gerrib

(I'll avoid using the four-letter words I learned in the Navy but I think you get my gist.)

I don't think that is all that you "learned" in the navy, is it , Chris?

(Isn't there a song about that?)

Blogger JartStar February 27, 2015 9:33 PM  

Chris you aren't fooling anyone here with your dodging. We all see through it. Be a man. Answer the question: Yes or No.

Being wrong isn't the worst thing that can happen to you, sulking in intellectual dishonesty is much, much worse.

Blogger Vox February 27, 2015 9:34 PM  

Man, Chris, could you BE more of a Gamma male? Until you answer the question, you cannot comment here. I gave you three chances to answer a very clear and straightforward question, and you evaded and avoided it every time.

Chris, I understand your passive-aggressive and conflict-avoidant mentality. It's common; there are an entire set of recent posts about it at Alpha Game by an ex-Gamma. But what you don't realize is that being seen to be wrong is nothing to be afraid of. You actually lose more respect in everyone's eyes when you run away like this because you're afraid of being shown to be wrong than you do when it actually happens.

You're not fooling anyone when you say you don't care. If you didn't care, you'd just answer the question, you would not engage in all these conflict-avoidant gymnastics.

Anonymous zen0 February 27, 2015 9:36 PM  

@ James Schardt

Heck, the main character is a staunch Republican.

If you mean someone totally committed to fainting in the face of conflict staunch, then yes, a Republican it is .

Anonymous zen0 February 27, 2015 9:44 PM  

You actually lose more respect in everyone's eyes when you run away like this because you're afraid of being shown to be wrong than you do when it actually happens.

Not only that, but if one cannot admit they were wrong, how the frig will they learn anything? It will be an endless loop of fail. A lake of fire of suckness.

I might be wrong about this, but I think not.

Blogger James Schardt February 27, 2015 9:53 PM  

zen0,

Actually, I was thinking about how she praises the election of Rutherford B. Hayes.

Blogger JartStar February 27, 2015 9:54 PM  

zen0,

You can't ever change or learn anything if you can never admit you are wrong. Being wrong is part of adult intellectual life. Hell, being very, very wrong about stuff is part of life.

Chris,

You are probably still reading this and all I can say is that being wrong about something doesn't negate you as a person, or destroy your credibility for all time, or even mean you aren't welcome here. I've personally apologized to people online here when wrong and made wrong assumptions and bad arguments. That's how it goes.

You want to change something in your life tonight? Take a step you've probably never taken? Come back and answer that question.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 27, 2015 10:18 PM  

From the review:
Indeed, one of the major themes of Karen Memory seems to be the subversion of the dominant white male paradigm. Bear puts a variety of alternative lifestyles and minority role models on display, and fervently asserts that they too can be heroes in a fantasy novel. Madame Damnable in her quest for leadership of Seattle Rapid City against Bantle; the African-American Marshal Reeves, who has risen to a place of leadership despite his race (and actually Madame Damnable as well – Karen makes it clear that the powerful madame is also African-American by blood, if not by appearance); and Priya and Karen’s blossoming relationship, forbidden both as same-sex and interracial, are all examples.

The subversion of the dominant white male paradigm is the key here. Now I have not read the book, so I can't say if it's entertaining or not. But I have had a look at this review. The reviewer's go-to is not the value to the reader for diversion, but that this work is enlightening. Memory Hole is foremost about undermining white male power (real or perceived).

Now there's no accounting for taste. But if someone tells me a work is an example of Socialist Realism, I expect it's a piece of Stalinist propaganda. When I hear that a book subverts the white male paradigm, I expect PC propaganda.

And with propaganda it's always about the political. The reviewer is telling the readers they are a morally superior set compared to troglodytic ilk that read stuff like Louis L'Amour or Ian Fleming. Bear's readers are just BETTER than you, because diversity.

The ultimate goal of the propaganda is to reinforce the PC-paradigm among the PC-drones, and to make more drones. If you are an impressionable straight white male, this crap erodes your consciousness of your self-worth. It is pretty much Frantz Fanon trying to hotwire your mind, to insert a leftist colonial regime over your tastes and your desires, to turn you into John Scalzi, only with a smaller yard.

If someone really likes Memory Hole, good for them. If you think you are a better person than me because you like Memory Hole, you can kiss my white male paradigm. I'm fighting to de-colonize the minds of other straight white males.

Anonymous zen0 February 27, 2015 10:28 PM  

@ Culture War Draftee

I'm fighting to de-colonize the minds of other straight white males.

Rest assured, the really straight white males are ok.

Long time preference. Its like having to listen to female bullshit for an eternity until common sense kicks in. Usually the next day. And then the stupid shit starts again.

Its the cross we bear.

Blogger S1AL February 27, 2015 10:43 PM  

"Obvious factual errors"

That's a truly amusing statement coming from someone incapable of admitting when he is incorrect about any fact. Really, tell me again how there were no black people in pirate movie before 2005... or how the declaration of independence is the "founding" document of America.

But hey, now I know it's not just me you to whom you won't admit being wrong.

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 11:04 PM  

"Nobody has refuted (or really even addressed) them."

It's difficult to when there are so many well thought out facets to your rhetoric. Observe this Moebius loop of a Gerrib syllogism and watch brains explode Scanners-style:

No history but from the victors; we know of those who are marginal; therefore the evil whitewash is complete.

Y U NO GET THIS?

Anonymous kh123 February 27, 2015 11:11 PM  

...And besides Chris, if the book is that riveting, why are you wasting time commenting here instead of getting past Chapter 1 in your Steamboy-meets-Deadwood emo porn.

Blogger Corvinus February 27, 2015 11:14 PM  

Vox- I'm done talking to you. If you don't want me to comment here, get me banned. Otherwise, fuck off. If you think that's conflict avoidance, whatever. Why I should give a damn about the opinion of a one-name wonder is beyond me.

JartStar - if I wanted to avoid conflict, I'd not be posting here. Regarding "answer the question" - see my reply to Vox. I started here by pointing out obvious factual errors. Nobody has refuted (or really even addressed) them.


@Chris Gerrib
What obvious factual error? Your point about it being based on a real character?

That's not the problem. We don't give a f*ck what real-life perverts the book was based on. The problem is the book's agenda, as Vox has pointed out to you repeatedly.

Or do you deny that the book has an agenda?

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 27, 2015 11:38 PM  

@zen0

Rest assured, the really straight white males are ok.

OK, I'll just have another beer then. I was being a bit dramatic, albeit in an absurd manner.

I do think people who don't know better end up buying this crap because it's conformist. All their friends are dreadfully serious about diversity or whatever, so they must be too. The warren replicates itself somehow.

And there are certain portions of the populace that could be called the swing vote. I'm pretty lazy, but every so often I like to throw some sickeners into public discourse for the benefit of the undecided. Hey, I'm only a draftee.

Anonymous Wyrd February 27, 2015 11:54 PM  

Vox- I'm done talking to you.

Returning to Wright's blog to shit all over it again, are you?

Anonymous Scintan February 28, 2015 12:22 AM  

And brave Sir Robin will now bravely run away.

Blogger JDC February 28, 2015 12:31 AM  

Vox- I'm done talking to you. If you don't want me to comment here, get me banned. Otherwise, fuck off. If you think that's conflict avoidance, whatever. Why I should give a damn about the opinion of a one-name wonder is beyond me.

Just read this...somewhere...

Gamma: can't tolerate disagreement or criticism, bitchy, cowardly, puts himself in situations he is not equipped to handle. The political is personal, the technical is personal, everything is personal. Runs from direct confrontation.

Now, what sort of man would you rather be? And observe the Gamma is totally unprepared for his disrespect to meet with a dominant response. Unlike an Alpha, he doesn't fight, unlike a Beta or Delta, he doesn't submit. He flees.

Blogger Desiderius February 28, 2015 12:32 AM  

"But *that's not the point.*"

Yeah, the point for Chris and friends is creating a make-believe world where they get to be the hero, then convincing themselves it's the real world.

Way to save the children from those evil jingoistic history teachers, Chris. I happen to know hundreds of history teachers - the last of that breed among them retired in 1991. If you didn't have your head entirely up your ass, you'd know that the problem now runs entirely the opposite direction.

Globalists rule, nativists drool, and UMC parents want their kids to be on the winning team. That means so long Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, and Neil Armstrong, hello whatever half-baked world culture nonsense is in vogue this week at the Ed School/SJW mailing list. If any other indigenous culture were being nuked like this, you'd cry to the high heavens. It's being done to your own and you bring out the Don Quixote act. Pathetic.

Blogger Desiderius February 28, 2015 12:57 AM  

CWD,

"I was being a bit dramatic, albeit in an absurd manner."

Still, damn fine writing. Look forward to reading more.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee February 28, 2015 1:01 AM  

Desiderius,
Thank you sir, I'll be here all week.

Blogger Desiderius February 28, 2015 1:07 AM  

zen0,

"Not only that, but if one cannot admit they were wrong, how the frig will they learn anything? It will be an endless loop of fail. A lake of fire of suckness."

Yep. The function of the Gospel is to save Man from that very fate. We all fall short of the Glory of God. "But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8

"No one should be ashamed to admit they are wrong, which is but saying, in other words, that they are wiser today than they were yesterday."

- Pope

Anonymous Daniel February 28, 2015 1:20 AM  

Good grief have AG and VP gotten hit with another Gamma virus recently or what? Just answer the question Chris. You accepted the rules of the blog upon posting. Why don't you just follow them? It doesn't take a PhD to comprehend them.

I wonder if the SJW hive getting smoked out is causing this most recent dissonance among the placard-holding Gammas or something. I honestly hope it wakes a few of them up, but I'll content myself with their girlish screams instead.

Don't worry Anita: the pain sort, not the orgasm sort.

Blogger bob k. mando February 28, 2015 1:34 AM  

Chris Gerrib February 27, 2015 10:25 PM
If you think that's conflict avoidance, whatever. Why I should give a damn about the opinion of a one-name wonder is beyond me.



quick everyone, to the Fainting Couch!

for the Gerrib has looked upon us, and found us wanting.

how shall i ever live with the shame?

Blogger Didact February 28, 2015 4:53 AM  

Ivy Valentine's amazingly absurd outfits are a great reason to be a gamer. I personally have never played the Soul Calibur games, but it is always great fun to see what Project Soul are willing to do with the outfits on the women. And in Ivy's case, they just keep getting more skimpy, more outlandish, and more awesome.

Which is a very good thing indeed, because this is exactly what causes SJW heads to turn into spontaneously combustible IEDs.

Blogger James Dixon February 28, 2015 8:14 AM  

> No, apparently not.

Hey, even someone like her can serve a purpose. Witchcraft looks like it might be worth checking out.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 28, 2015 10:48 AM  

Curious but not an SJW - so millions of Southerners, including the plantation owners AKA political and economic leaders, went to war to defend an institution they disliked? And when, in late 1864 after a disastrous war, Lincoln offered to end the war and pay the South for slaves, they said no?

Why is it that Chris Gerrib is unaware of reality

After all, the majority of Americans did not want to get involved in WWI but those who stood to benefit did and were able to exploit events the way they wanted.

Anonymous James Schardt March 03, 2015 9:13 PM  

If anyone is still monitoring this thread, I read the marketing points for Elizabeth Bear's book out of the Tor catalog. I am now 90% certain the author of the above review only read the marketing and never cracked the book. I hope I'm not committing a faux pas by saying my own review is now up on the Otherwhere Gazette.

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