ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Sunday, March 22, 2015

4GW coming to America

The USA is about to discover the distinct military disadvantages of permitting a massive Fifth Column of immigrants in its midst:
A division of ISIS published a 'kill list' containing the names, photos and addresses of 100 US military members online and called upon its 'brothers residing in America' to kill them. The list was posted online by the 'Islamic State Hacking Division'. The group claimed it hacked several military servers, databases and emails to obtain the information.

The ISHD said it wants 'lone wolf' attackers to go after the military members and 'kill them wherever you find them'.

The list did appear to match up with information which was available online, TheBlaze reported.

The posting read: 'With the huge amount of data we have from various different servers and databases, we have decided to leak 100 addresses so that our brothers in America can deal with you. And now we have made it easy for you by giving you addresses, all you need to do is take the final step, so what are you waiting for? Kill them in their own lands, behead them in their own homes, stab them to death as they walk their streets thinking that they are safe.'
Notice how even ISIS recognizes that which neither the Democratic nor Republican parties are willing to admit. America is land that belongs to white Christian people of European descent, (only after being conquered and taken from my people, of course), it is not part of the Dar al-Islam, and it does not belong to the ISIS "brothers in America" who have invaded it or to the millions of other alien immigrants who presently reside in it. Not yet, anyhow. And perhaps not ever.

Perhaps after members of the US military begin dying in their own lands, Americans will begin to take the concept of defending their own lands, and their own people, seriously.

Labels: ,

105 Comments:

Blogger Johan March 22, 2015 12:04 PM  

If there are a couple videos of beheadings of military members being beheaded in America, I bet that the gloves will start to come off...

Anonymous Salt March 22, 2015 12:09 PM  

Read yesterday that police are needing people. Not enough Americans applying so they're looking at immigrants to carry the badge and the gun. This should work so well, don't you think?

Anonymous FP March 22, 2015 12:10 PM  

Bah, no big deal! We can just hire some new immigrant cops to help protect the homeland.

Via Drudge:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/21/immigrant-police-officers/70236828/

Blogger James Dixon March 22, 2015 12:30 PM  

But then we have people telling us right here in these forums just a couple of days ago that " It should be painfully obvious that there is zero 4GW threat in America today".

> I bet that the gloves will start to come off...

Not as long as Obama is in charge they won't. He knows which side he's on.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 22, 2015 12:33 PM  

A division of ISIS published a 'kill list' containing the names, photos and addresses of 100 US military members online...

The list was posted online by the 'Islamic State Hacking Division'.

The group claimed it hacked several military servers, databases and emails to obtain the information.


Freely translated from the Arabic: Islamic State Hacking Division, read their Facebook accounts.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey March 22, 2015 12:35 PM  

It's time to start targeting these people--and those who defend them--at home.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey March 22, 2015 12:36 PM  

If there are a couple videos of beheadings of military members being beheaded in America, I bet that the gloves will start to come off...

Yes, and not soon enough! Once videos of Muslims, Africans, SJWs getting tortured and killed make the rounds, expect all hell to break loose.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 22, 2015 12:37 PM  

Not as long as Obama is in charge they won't. He knows which side he's on.

If anything it will be an excuse to come down on, "domestic extremists." Tea Partiers, gun shop owners and so on.

Blogger Ingemar March 22, 2015 12:43 PM  

During my darker moments, I've pondered that the best way to cripple the US military psychologically is to go after the families of deployed service members. The reasoning is that "if they're over there to protect us here, but it's not working, they will lose hope."

Anonymous A Visitor March 22, 2015 12:44 PM  

I'd love to see one of these fools try it. Not only would he most likely fail/die in the process, the uproar would be so great that Dear Leader would have to acquiesce, lest his legacy be even more tarnished and/or he end up impeached, tried and convicted.

Blogger Johan March 22, 2015 12:46 PM  

>During my darker moments, I've pondered that the best way to cripple the US military psychologically is to go after the families of deployed service members. The reasoning is that "if they're over there to protect us here, but it's not working, they will lose hope."

If that started to happen, I'm guessing that massacres would become common place overseas.

Anonymous PA March 22, 2015 12:46 PM  

There already was the beheading of UK fusilier Lee Rigby on the street of London. Nothing changed.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 22, 2015 12:46 PM  

The Caliphate's motivation for terrorism in the US is simple if odd to us. They are desperate for a war with the United States.

“The Islamic State has attached great importance to the Syrian city of Dabiq, near Aleppo. It named its propaganda magazine after the town, and celebrated madly when (at great cost) it conquered Dabiq’s strategically unimportant plains. It is here, the Prophet reportedly said, that the armies of Rome will set up their camp. The armies of Islam will meet them, and Dabiq will be Rome’s Waterloo or its Antietam...


... Now that it has taken Dabiq, the Islamic State awaits the arrival of an enemy army there, whose defeat will initiate the countdown to the apocalypse.”


That my friends it where America comes in. You see the Caliphate is supposed to defeat the armies of Rome. This next bit is complicated so bear with me.


The Salafist version of the apocalypse goes something like this. The armies of the Caliph defeats the armies Rome on the Plains of Dabiq. The Caliphate then proceeds to sweep all before them until in Eastern Iran a (sort of) Anti-Christ arises; the Dajjal. The Dajjal will hammer the Caliphate until there are only 5,000 of the faithful remaining hold up in Jerusalem. Just as the Dajjal is about to destroy them, Jesus Christ will return to Earth and spear him.


Anonymous RS March 22, 2015 12:58 PM  

VD wrote - "Perhaps after members of the US military begin dying in their own lands, Americans will begin to take the concept of defending their own lands, and their own people, seriously."

So does that mean you'd be returning back to Minnesota? Or anywhere else in the U.S.? I'm sure Nate would welcome you to the compound.

Blogger James Dixon March 22, 2015 1:08 PM  

> So does that mean you'd be returning back to Minnesota? Or anywhere else in the U.S.?

Coming soon, to a reservation near you... :)

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey March 22, 2015 1:11 PM  

On the plus side, this will certainly assist in the formation of private security companies, militias, and White paramilitary groups, and will facilitate the 'turning' of sympathetic Whites in the security forces and intelligence services.

Anonymous EH March 22, 2015 1:15 PM  

The Islamic State has a ways to go before it presents nearly the threat of our home-grown killers. Reposted from my comment at Heartiste:

I just found out that one of my better friends, Joe Hrulka, was shot and killed just after leaving a bar in the Little Five Points neighborhood of Atlanta (the “counterculture” tourist district).

According to the majority-Black Atlanta Police Department, many years 100% of the homicide arrests are of Blacks. Talking to the delusional post-wall snowflake who gave me the news, even trying to lead up to the idea that we could guess some characteristics of the killers was met with panicked delusional equalism: “you can’t judge a book by its cover – judgement is wrong, blah, whine, blah…”. My old grey-dreadlock ex-felon friend sitting next to me could only shake his head at her.

Later, in the cafe-bar filled with the fat freak cast of the “burlesque” show intermission from the attached theater, I ran into one of the old white uber-SJWs from the Quaker meeting (he ran the bail fund for the Atlanta’s Ferguson protests). His face fell as I showed him the picture of the suspects cashing out on their armed robbery spree:
murder robbery

I thought about going to Meeting today, and reading aloud one of the anti-white screeds from their “anti-racism” propaganda table, substituting “Jew” for “white” as I read, but it wouldn’t do me or them much good.

Anonymous Difster March 22, 2015 1:16 PM  

The first one of these guys that gets killed is going to incite some serious backlash.

There's more of us (white Christian males), we're smarter, and we're better armed.

Anonymous Red Comet March 22, 2015 1:20 PM  

There already was the beheading of UK fusilier Lee Rigby on the street of London. Nothing changed.

That's because he was just one victim. Given time and Islamic violence (both inevitable) eventually everyone in Britain will know someone raped or killed by Islam.

That's when things will change because, unfortunately, the bread and circuses will content most people until the situation they've been ignoring affects them personally.

A major sign of changes will be when big time SJW fanatics change their tune to one of national/racial/cultural solidarity.

Anonymous Mike M. March 22, 2015 1:25 PM  

An attack in CONUS would have many ramifications. Especially since people here assume they are 100% safe. Shatter that, and the repercussions reverberate throughout society.

The painful part will be the switch to a war footing...and the attempts of the Left to exploit it for their own ends.

For example, the logical response to the news that several dozen hostiles are loose in the nation is for citizens to arm themselves. We've got them heavily outnumbered, one-for-one trades are a win. But getting current laws and regulations set up to support this will be a fight...and the Left will do their best to justify more restrictions. Which won't work to fight the enemy....but that is not the intent of the Left.

Anonymous old coyote March 22, 2015 1:42 PM  

can we please have access to this list to send on to our servicemen (ok women too) and for oathkeepers. thanks. apologies for not being up to speed with tech to post a link: since christian warriors are extinct (except for zionists), we need to find a sect of warrior islam to claim faith with- e.g. the chechnya special volunteer forces vowing to defend russia's leader with their lives. not sure if we want to offer this to our current country's leader, but maybe some new leader can be found after the SHTF.

Blogger darkdoc March 22, 2015 1:43 PM  

I think Obama is the one to be concerned for safety.

He has pretty thoroughly pissed off the Israeli's and they do tend to get even.

The Secret Service is not what they once were.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 22, 2015 1:47 PM  

Mike M.: "The painful part will be the switch to a war footing...and the attempts of the Left to exploit it for their own ends."

This might require a War on Religious Extremism (meaning Christianity), an intensified War on Antisemitism (meaning all criticism of space lizards and all opposition to their preferred policies), increased efforts to strengthen America (and all other white countries) etc. And what is our greatest strength? Diversity!

That's not to say that social justice warrior drones will always win the day. But their attack paths are already mapped.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales March 22, 2015 1:48 PM  

What about the Ft. Hood shooting? Nothing's really changed since then, though I admit, labeling it work place violence and its uniqueness as that kind of event may have had something to do with it.

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami March 22, 2015 1:50 PM  

PA: There already was the beheading of UK fusilier Lee Rigby on the street of London. Nothing changed.
Red Comet: That's because he was just one victim.

Just one victim, who was savagely slaughtered on a public street in broad daylight, in view of witnesses and cameras. If that doesn't slap some fucking sense into everyone over there, then nothing will. Not ten beheadings nor a thousand. IIRC that incident also resulted in more arrests for Thinkcrime Againist [sic] Diversity, than for the killing (just like the Rotherham rape gangs).



> I bet that the gloves will start to come off...
James Dixon: Not as long as Obama is in charge they won't. He knows which side he's on.

We know too. And he's not the one wearing the gloves.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 1:55 PM  

I fear even (especially?) the gung ho defenders of the homeland are woefully naive. You're opposed by the rankest opportunists in history. People with no morals, no understanding, no fear of consequences, no knowledge of God, no compunction in sending hundred of thousands of your country men to kill and be killed all around the world.

Literally, ALL around the world.

The US military presence on this planet cannot be described as anything less than an imperial full court press. It is already far larger than the British Empire and is rapidly approaching the same level of rampant lies, thievery, and murder on an industrial scale.

As someone properly mentioned above, any such attacks will be used to crank up the security state and put people like you in cages. Sure, some of you will go down guns blazing. They will "lone nutter" your corpses faster than CNN can broadcast the White House press release.

You cannot defeat these people using their weapons. And if you could, you would soon become worse than they. It is tempting to look at the rise of imperial America as nothing more than another cycle of history. This is a horrific misreading; this cycle is unlike any other before it. These people are determined to rule the whole planet. They are working by stealth, by economic pressure, by naked force, by terrorism, by their many wars on nouns, by SJW rhetoric, by any tool that comes to hand, and they believe they can and will succeed in their intention.

I agree with them.

I say this not because I am a fatalist - I am not - nor because I think they will "win" - I do not - nor because I want to encourage anyone to resign themselves to serving these neopagan monomaniacs and their sycophants.

I say this only because it is the truth. As our host put it not long ago:

"Chose ye this day whom ye shall serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 22, 2015 1:56 PM  

My take on the majority of the comments here is that for all the talk of 4GW you folks are for the most part forming the line and ready to charge and that basically means you are for the most part at 0.5GW.

So Yes and No to your question, the State is being de-legitimized, but the conservatives refuse to believe it.

Blogger Robert What? March 22, 2015 1:57 PM  

Couldn't they put Obama, Pelosi, Durban, Schumer, and a bunch of other parasites on the list instead? That list I think a lot of Americans could get behind.

Blogger IM2L844 March 22, 2015 1:59 PM  

The problem is that this will be occurring in the context of a confluence of factors just as the white girl bleed a lot movement among blacks is gaining momentum. The mainstream media won't be able to contain this crap forever and the SJW chickens will eventually come home to roost.

People will be begging for a police state before all is said and done. I don't see any way around it...unless, of course, the Starbuck's initiative smooths everything over before things get out of hand.

Anonymous WowJustWow March 22, 2015 2:20 PM  

I can't believe I still have to preach this sermon.

Folks, the America that stood for Western Christian civilization and the interests of white, Christian people died years ago. I am not an "American". You are not an "American". There is no such thing as an "American" any more. I am a U.S. citizen and passport holder (and taxpayer), but that is simply a legal accident of my birth; the power clique that controls the former United States does not represent the interests of me or anyone who looks, speaks, or believes as I do.

I am a Catholic first, then a member of my family, then a Texan, and it is my Church, my kin, and my state that have first claim on my loyalties. I will defend these and none other against all comers.

If you are likewise white, Christian, and loyal to the society created by same, you'd better come to grips with the fact that both "America" (that is, the majority in this country) and the Federal Entity consider you, not ISIS, to be their prime Enemy.

Act accordingly.

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 2:22 PM  

they believe they can and will succeed in their intention.

I agree with them.

I say this not because I am a fatalist - I am not - nor because I think they will "win" - I do not - nor because I want to encourage anyone to resign themselves to serving these neopagan monomaniacs and their sycophants.

I say this only because it is the truth.


Your pre-mils, bless your hearts, are very predictable; once the fighting starts, you will come around.



Anonymous Clay March 22, 2015 2:24 PM  

Oh Boy.

I just hope they do start their stupidity, so I can also get me a mount of some stupid jihadi on the wall, just next to my Russian Boar.

Tho, I'd have to have the jihadi shaved, post mortem

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 2:28 PM  

You pessimists.

Start asking yourselves what victory looks like and start working for that.

FedGov is losing legitimacy with its citizens by the day; If ISIS pulls this off it will lose internal legitimacy and start eating itself.

What do we want when the parasites have consumed themselves?

God, Freedom, Liberty, Justice, i.e. the American way.

If not us, who?

When you lay dying and look back without bias or pretense, will you approve of your work or regret your inaction?

We are blessed to live in such times.

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami March 22, 2015 2:28 PM  

IM2L8,

The Starbucks campaign has already ended..

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 2:30 PM  

Oh Boy.

I just hope they do start their stupidity, so I can also get me a mount of some stupid jihadi on the wall, just next to my Russian Boar.

Tho, I'd have to have the jihadi shaved, post mortem


See! That's what freedom looks like. That is who we are.

Anonymous Angry March 22, 2015 2:30 PM  

What this is is perfect. This is just the kind of scattershot activity the country needs.

I know a lot of people here admire Anders Breivik, but his attack was very misconceived. Going after the Leftists and the SJW was not the way to start. What he should have done was gone after several Mosques in Norway instead. That would have accomplished a great deal more.

There a few reasons for this.

First, Moslems have no sense of proportionality. They hit hard and wide in retaliation for any attacks against them. Their style of battle is to act as an enemy tribe and attack another tribe. All of the enemy is fair game.

Second, the Left would never allow an attacker of Moslems to be labeled as crazy. Brievik accomplished little because the Norwegian government pigeonholed him as mentally ill. No Western government would allow anti-Muslim violence to be seen as crazy. They would trumpet the killer as a killer of Muslims.

In doing so, the Jihad would explode in its viciousness, creating a perfect storm. You have Muslims killing people in the streets, while the government is busy trying to whitewash Muslim activities, while others are responding in kind toward Muslims atrocities. Most importantly, you want the public thinking about their murdered relatives while the SJW is blathering about tolerance.

Breivik's problem was that he prematurely set off the Night of Long Knives before the Kristallnacht. The public is not going care about the children of leftists being killed. Breivik's activities come after the social chaos is well under way.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 22, 2015 2:39 PM  

I notice that one of them is a woman. Said to be the CO of the USS O'Kane.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 2:45 PM  

Right, a Christian who thinks serving the Prince of Peace means taking up the weapons of his enemies.

Of course, some of "us" will come around, but so will some of your lot. I do not know if you have the honesty to admit that we predicted this long before it happened and adjust your opinions accordingly, but it could happen. After all, we've never met.

However, you read more like Saul than Paul. I hope the road to Damascus awaits you before the end.

Anonymous Believer March 22, 2015 2:45 PM  

You can't simply declare a country Belongs to a certain type of people without reason and expect any thing more than derision to ensue.

Anonymous Clay March 22, 2015 2:50 PM  

Oh, Holy Cheese.

I'll let you guys (or gals) fight this crap out. I found it by mistake while Googling.

http://www.warhistoryfans.com/reason-for-japan-not-invading-continental-us-152362.html

Anonymous Clay March 22, 2015 3:04 PM  

I apologize I didn't realize that site was so old and defunct.

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 3:07 PM  

Right, a Christian who thinks serving the Prince of Peace means taking up the weapons of his enemies.

Of course, some of "us" will come around, but so will some of your lot. I do not know if you have the honesty to admit that we predicted this long before it happened and adjust your opinions accordingly, but it could happen. After all, we've never met.

However, you read more like Saul than Paul. I hope the road to Damascus awaits you before the end.


@SuzzaMan I assume you are addressing me.

Do you denounce Charles Martel and Jean de la Valette for taking up the sword and defending Christendom ?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 22, 2015 3:13 PM  

ScuzzaMan: "I say this not because I am a fatalist - I am not - nor because I think they will "win" - I do not - nor because I want to encourage anyone to resign themselves to serving these neopagan monomaniacs and their sycophants."

Are you afraid to say who really rules over you? You will not find them pouring libations to Zeus.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 3:21 PM  

I denounce very few people. But I also doubt they were solely motivated by the desire to serve God. I could be wrong: maybe God did speak to them and tell them to take up the sword. But I personally doubt it more than I doubt he told George Bush to invade Iraq. People seem to be adept at fighting each other with or without religious pretexts.

Be that as it may, Christ's statements on the subject were quite emphatic: my Kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight.

Sure some impute contrary meaning to statements like "I came not to bring peace but a sword" but to do that they have to ignore the biblical use of the symbol of a sword, and hold fast to a dubious imputation in the face of a direct statement.

It's very poor exegesis.

Titus; milk for babies, meat for adults. One meets few adults on the internetz ...

Anonymous LES March 22, 2015 3:28 PM  

I am a newbie at 4GW and am reading William Lind's book "On War."
While googling a particular column to send to a friend I came across this criticism of 4GW by Dr. Echevarria. Has anyone critiqued this?

FOURTH-GENERATION WAR AND OTHER MYTHS

Anonymous paradox March 22, 2015 3:32 PM  

Proto 4G has already started last week in Ferguson with the cop shootings. When the cast members of Planet of the Apes start shooting at the cops' families it will be 4G warfare. I look for ISIS start heavily proselytizing to blacks.

Blogger Corvinus March 22, 2015 3:33 PM  

Ft. Hood and Lee Rigby didn't do squat; I am dubious that ISIS actually carrying out its hit list will do so either.

At least, there need to be a whole slough of such incidents before we see demands for a Muslim Exclusion Act crop up in the mainstream.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 3:34 PM  

"This publication is a work of the United States Government."

No government has ever told the truth about war. None, ever.

Governments employ court intellectuals to buttress their claims to legitimate exercise of power over their citizens.

Blogger James Dixon March 22, 2015 3:43 PM  

> I say this only because it is the truth.

So your crystal ball is fully functional then, huh? So who's going to win the Kentucky Derby this year? I'd like to get an early bet in.

Anonymous Clay March 22, 2015 3:48 PM  

Hey Scuzzaman. We gotta kill SOMEBODY!

Look at all the money we spend.

You should rethink your position on who lives, and who doesn't.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 22, 2015 3:55 PM  

ScuzzaMan, Christians may not murder but they may kill in defense and in righteous war. A war against Muslims who have attacked our lands is about the most righteous war possible since these people are evil and heretical alike.

The trick to not becoming the enemy than is to not be Vlad Tepez however tempting. The Dragon was a great warrior for Christendom but he certainly used the weapons of the enemy which I think put a stain on his soul. Maybe it was necessary and it sure worked but dare I say it, it was unchristian. Instead we should be Charles Martel and Jean de la Valette and John Sobieski and fight with what honor we can muster while we can.

This alas rules out my preferred solution ERRB weapons and lots of them at least for now but so be it.

Now as to the topic at hand, a lot of killing would trigger the US but it would take a lot more than one or two that have aspects of workplace violence and can easily be swept under the rug as we've seen with Fort Hood or in Oklahoma and unlike the UK it wouldn't be easy, 3/5 of States have must issue and as in Oklahoma, Americans fight back

It will also require a bit moire economic stress before anything big happens on either side.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 3:55 PM  

James, you're welcome to enumerate all the reasons you think this imperial cycle is just like every cycle before it.

The people involved have been telling us of their intentions for decades, and their reach and their control and their mendacity and their bloodthirsty savagery have all increased markedly in my lifetime.

If you're capable of an argument, make one. If you wont, I well feel free to ignore you henceforth.

Blogger Noah B March 22, 2015 3:58 PM  

"The Secret Service is not what they once were."

And lately it looks like many of them don't even care about their mission anymore. I can't be the only one noticing this.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 4:03 PM  

A.B.Prosper: I dont hold with just war theory. The Muslims are invading because we invited them over wholesale, and they getting violent because we've been fomenting violence in their countries for decades. We've actively recruited, armed, trained, and funded the most bloodthirsty extremists (i.e. AQ and IS (gotta keep those nyms short and sweet for the 10 o'clock news)) and let them loose.

This is the last conflict anyone could conclude is a just war. If anything, it is just that we keep on getting what we're going to keep on getting for being idiot enough to stand idly by - while we're not cheering - and let our governments deliberately and openly destroy our civilisation.

No government has ever told the truth about war, and all government claim "but we were ATTACKED!" ... It is so predictably stupid, but they keep doing it because it works. It is the adult version of "but He started it!"

I call bullshit on the lot of them. There's a reason why the first principle of analysing war is this:

"Truth is the first casualty of war"

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 4:04 PM  

@ScuzzaMan

Can you repeat the doctrinal cases for taking up the sword? Are you aware of them? They are quite strong and I believe stronger than yours; I accept that you may reject them, but it is simple politeness to be aware of the position of those who you denounce.

This catholic discussion on The death penalty has relevant bearing on our discussion as the issues are directly transferable to war.

This issue is important because it is an example of Clausewitz's friction. When it is time to fight, your position will be an obstacle to that, hence my pre-mil quip.

I am open to changing my position should evidence support it, but your case has not done so.

Anonymous LES March 22, 2015 4:05 PM  

OT: SJW Method Applied to Gluten

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 4:09 PM  

Biblically, there's only been a handful of wars you might conclude were justified, i.e. when God tells you to wipe a nation out, man, woman, child and beast, then who can argue with him?

But he hasn't done that for a very long time. See also my response to A.B.Prosper. As I said, I dont hold with just war theory at all. No, I am not going to make your argument for you. I dont agree with the death penalty - anyone aware of the US "justice" system ought to be able to discern why - and I dont agree the logic is transferable either. I will neither make your argument for you nor blithely accept your axioms unexamined.

Make your case, or don't.

Nice try, though!

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 4:11 PM  

P.S. I have not denounced anyone in this thread, yet you claim I have. You dont do your reputation for honest argument any good by repeating this.

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 4:13 PM  

We've actively recruited, armed, trained, and funded the most bloodthirsty extremists (i.e. AQ and IS (gotta keep those nyms short and sweet for the 10 o'clock news)) and let them loose.

This is the last conflict anyone could conclude is a just war. If anything, it is just that we keep on getting what we're going to keep on getting for being idiot enough to stand idly by - while we're not cheering - and let our governments deliberately and openly destroy our civilisation.



That "We've" is the problem;it explains a lot; I sympathise. I use the term "They" as "They" do not support our civilisation either although they purport to govern us.

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 4:16 PM  

Make your case, or don't.

It is you who must convince me. You have failed.

Anonymous CK March 22, 2015 4:18 PM  

"Sure some impute contrary meaning to statements like "I came not to bring peace but a sword" but to do that they have to ignore the biblical use of the symbol of a sword, and hold fast to a dubious imputation in the face of a direct statement."

But what about "the Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force"? Wickedness loves passivity and even thrives on it.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 4:19 PM  

Please yourself.

Regarding we and they, you're right. But too many of us really are them, or stupidly cheering them on. I dont identify myself with them in character, intent, or belief, but only as an accident of birth: I am a westerner living in a western nation.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler March 22, 2015 4:19 PM  

Never happen, Vox. The young population of America males are metrosexuals, more than half unfit to serve. We have illegal Mexicans, Aztecs and Mayan Indians becoming police officers!

America is a mess and growing.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 4:23 PM  

CK, who said anything about passivity? My bible says "overcome evil with good".

Does that mean I should redefine evil so "it's evil when THEY do it but good when WE do it!" (You do know that is what our governments say, right? Are they good? Just? God-fearing and law-abiding?

What about that quote? did he follow it by saying "so fight, kill, burn, until you make heaven on earth!"

The printer must have bungled my version ...

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 4:33 PM  

A related issue is ISIS targeting the Tech Elite

From this, we should assume ISIS will attack other "elites" in culture, industry, television and government; perhaps they already have a list.

Anonymous Anubis March 22, 2015 4:35 PM  

"If there are a couple videos of beheadings of military members being beheaded in America,"

Lee Rigby's death would have been covered up had not the video of "alley akbra" gone viral before the news hour. Looking up gay Steve's claims about the muslim black serial killer of gays in multiple states you have to get data from outside the US to confirm it.

OpenID simplytimothy March 22, 2015 4:35 PM  

@ScuzzaMan

To conflate late 20'th early 21'st century American centralized government with Western Civilisation is a mistake.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 4:45 PM  

@simplytimothy: make your argument, or dont.

But you're (A) changing the subject, and (B) making shit up, since I didn't do that.

You're not helping yourself. The readers here are very astute, and they know flimflam when they see it.

Anonymous CK March 22, 2015 4:56 PM  

"CK, who said anything about passivity? My bible says "overcome evil with good".

You'll have to pardon my argumentation as its not very good. But you said " I am a westerner living in a western nation." A nation built on violence. You or your ancestors wouldn't even be here any other way.

Blogger dfordoom March 22, 2015 4:56 PM  

Cataline Sergius said: If anything it will be an excuse to come down on, "domestic extremists." Tea Partiers, gun shop owners and so on.

Exactly. Expect a massive clampdown on ThoughtCrime. And the First Amendment won't help you. The government won't need to lead the crackdown on ThoughtCrime - the corporations that dominate the internet will do it for them. Expect drastic tightening up of Terms of Service on social network and blogging sites.

Anonymous CK March 22, 2015 5:02 PM  

"Does that mean I should redefine evil so "it's evil when THEY do it but good when WE do it!" (You do know that is what our governments say, right? Are they good? Just? God-fearing and law-abiding?"

. Sometimes it isn't a matter of morals but of survival which is a primary instinct.

Anonymous Stilicho March 22, 2015 5:09 PM  

Pacifist... still tastes like chicken.

@clay, don't shave it, it's like a tom... the beard is a trophy in its own right

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 22, 2015 5:10 PM  

@CK; regarding my existence, you cannot possibly know that. In spite of the violence we inflict daily in places like Iraq etc, most people ehre are still alive. Indeed their populations are growing.

Viktor Frankl wrote a book about his experiences surviving in a concentration camp. In it he makes this apt observation:

"Man is not an animal. Between the stimulus and the response, a man has a choice."

I do not give primacy to instinct, although I understand many do. So I reject your argument in toto.

Anonymous CK March 22, 2015 5:14 PM  

"So I reject your argument in toto."

That's fine. I just don't think your pacifism is practical especially in light of history and mans nature.

Anonymous CK March 22, 2015 5:23 PM  

"Man is not an animal. Between the stimulus and the response, a man has a choice."

You can exercise you "choice" in the concentration camp meanwhile I'll fight and kill the enemy and then liberate you from the camp...

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 22, 2015 5:34 PM  

scuzzaman, note I do favor not invading the Middle East and I can even agree that we did bring some of this trouble on ourselves by being in their lands and by allowing them in ours.

That said I do not think Islam can coexist with the West or our values for very long. Even if we had let them alone and kept them out , sooner or later they'll try and invade, History shows a pattern of this and for Christians and possibly Jews depending on the sect it means slavery or extermination and for non Christians, only extermination.

That is not acceptable and if it came to use surviving and using awful methods or slavery and extermination, I'd choose the former and I do not believe that long term its a false dichotomy. Either Islam modernizes or secularizes or eventually our cultures will clash and if the West is to survive we may have to do the kind of stomach churning things or ancestors did.

Anonymous Anonymous March 22, 2015 6:13 PM  

It's not just Christians that would fight against the Muslims. Believe it or not, the Muslims have made plenty of enemies over centuries of invasions and bloodshed. The Jews are obvious as those who would fight against them.

But the Sikhs dislike Muslims even more than the Christians do. The Hindus I'm not too sure about.

Growing up a Sikh, though no longer a Sikh, I can tell you multiple times my parents making it very clear "never marry a Muslim". It was probably worse than marrying a black person to them.

The Sikhs practically formed their identity after fighting wars against the Muslim invaders. It's why those that drink Amrit, carry daggers with them wherever they go. Always be prepared to defend yourself and your land, was something that was made clear to them after Muslims started killing them en masse.

I didn't get why my parents disliked Muslims so much before. I thought "they have nothing to do with those Muslims 400 years ago". But after reading into the Muslim holy texts, from the Hadith, to the Quran, and seeing for my own eyes what they are doing, it's very clear that they are just being good Muslims. It's what they do.

Blogger James Dixon March 22, 2015 7:11 PM  

> James, you're welcome to enumerate all the reasons you think this imperial cycle is just like every cycle before it.

Where did I claim it was? You're the one predicting the future and claiming it as truth. I merely asked for a more useful example of same.

> If you're capable of an argument, make one. If you wont, I well feel free to ignore you henceforth.

I don't have to make an argument to point out that prognosticating is not a valid one. And ignoring me is always your prerogative. barring rule #2 situations.

Anonymous Harsh March 22, 2015 7:48 PM  

If there are a couple videos of beheadings of military members being beheaded in America, I bet that the gloves will start to come off...

No, absolutely false. If all 100 of the service members on the list were killed tomorrow, the Obama administration would step up their bombing campaign in the ME for a few months and then it would all quietly disappear from the news. There would be no deportation of Muslims. There would be no action in the USA at all save for some perfunctory changes in TSA rules, no-fly lists, etc. As a nation and culture we don't want to fight this war yet and 100 deaths aren't going to change squat.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 22, 2015 7:52 PM  

Perhaps after members of the US military begin dying in their own lands, Americans will begin to take the concept of defending their own lands, and their own people, seriously.

First we should say that anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white, and that "diversity" is code for w-word g-word thing-that-shall-not-be-mentioned.

As long as anti-white violence can be redefined as part of a morally licit struggle against racism, it's tough to do anything.

As long as everybody who matters agrees that "diversity" matters more than the lives of military personnel, it's tough to do anything.

(And my favorite illustrative clip from General George Casey on the Fort Hood jihad killings has been removed from YouTube. Of course there are longer clips -- but people don't watch longer clips. And that's another way Team Anti-White wins: a combination of media control and simple tactics like moving important topics to the back pages while hyping trivia, as Mickey Kaus explained.)

Anonymous Curtis March 22, 2015 7:53 PM  

Ima gonna fight da Booslims!

Why don't you people start with your own government?

You think the Booslim is more capable of destroying your libertard and freedumb than your own government?

Americans have brought this on themselves.

No we didident!

Anonymous Bobbala March 22, 2015 8:06 PM  

Could this be the mohammedans first mistake or can we count on the military survivors groveling about how this was the act of radical islam, not "true islam"?

ROFLOL

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 22, 2015 9:34 PM  

1,700 little white girls gang raped by 3rd world moslems in Rotherham UK say hi. Despite that and the beheadings of the soldier by his barracks and a grandmother in her garden in broad daylight they still are not kicking the savages out. If cops are willing to ignore the gang rapes of 1,700 little girls what will they do to help adults? In die verse cities cop don't bother investigating crimes when both victim and criminal are in the victim Olympics because one victim group will cry out no matter what you do, arrest a gay basher and the sows come out saying "he a good boi he didndu nutting"

Those 1,700 little white girls had the Leftist Labour party helping cover up the crime. The 3 beheaded male neighbors of the Boston marathon moslems got no air time, nor did Mohammad Ali brown who targeted gays for serial killing. Every video on that White Girl Bleed A Lot site would be news for months if the races where reversed.

Anonymous zen0 March 22, 2015 10:10 PM  

@Robert What

Couldn't they put Obama, Pelosi, Durban, Schumer, and a bunch of other parasites on the list instead? That list I think a lot of Americans could get behind..

Don't forget Boner. Makes one have to wonder who is actually in charge of this group.

Why the twin towers? The Pentegon? Why not White House and Congress????

Anonymous Hoss March 22, 2015 11:06 PM  

Only a relatively small population of America would fight back. The left certainly won't give a shit if it's only military personnel being taken out, and probably wouldn't care anyway since they probably think we deserve it (all that oppression/ imperialism/colonialism,etc., ya know). They won't care until the LGBT(Q) crowd starts getting targeted.

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 22, 2015 11:19 PM  

Hey Moossleemmss Chelsea Clinton drew a picture of Mohammad drawing a picture of Mohammad drawing a picture of Mohammad having sex with a pig.

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 22, 2015 11:25 PM  

"They won't care until the LGBT(Q) crowd starts getting targeted."

Black moslem serial killer of gays in 3 states media ignores. Now I cant find the daily mail article on him.

http://ninjapundit.blogspot.com/2014/08/no-cnn-coverage-of-ali-muhammad-brown.html

Blogger george strong March 22, 2015 11:47 PM  

BigGaySteve: the Rotterdam girls weren't innocent. They were mudsharks, same as thousands of worthless white girls in the US. Nobody likes white beta males.

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami March 22, 2015 11:57 PM  

"the Rotterdam girls weren't innocent. They were mudsharks"

Fuck yourself.

Anonymous A. Nonymous March 23, 2015 2:28 AM  

You can exercise you "choice" in the concentration camp meanwhile I'll fight and kill the enemy and then liberate you from the camp...

Leave him. He'll be happier there.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 23, 2015 2:49 AM  

With the cooperation of an evil ruling establishment, the Rotherham girls were terrorized:

They were ‘doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight, threatened with guns, made to witness brutally violent rapes and threatened they would be next if they told anyone’.
Some responded by hurting themselves or attempting suicide.
One repeatedly tried to throw herself in front of moving cars. Another despairingly told investigators: ‘What’s the point? I might as well be dead.’


Why should the establishment be regarded as completely evil? For one thing:

Police treated victims and their families as if they were to blame for the abuse, and took no action against the paedophiles...

Anonymous zippo March 23, 2015 7:21 AM  

"You can't simply declare a country Belongs to a certain type of people without reason"

Without reason? Without REASON?! Did you just say Without reason?

[CUE CIRCUS CLOWN MUSIC]

Blogger Tank March 23, 2015 8:34 AM  

Did not read all comments, but this sounds like a certain short story in a certain book LOL.

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 23, 2015 10:12 AM  

"BigGaySteve: the Rotterdam girls weren't innocent. They were mudsharks, same as thousands of worthless white girls in the US. Nobody likes white beta males. '

The 3rd world blacks do the same as US blacks get girls hooked on drugs for sex. If they where mudsharks they wouldn't be getting arrested by Labour supporting cops for hate crimes against their rapists.

OpenID simplytimothy March 23, 2015 4:30 PM  

Instapundit had this story this morning about a Christian vet returning to Iraq to defend Christians..

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lone-vet-returns-to-iraq-to-fight-isis-defend-christianity/

""I'm not here serving my country -- I'm here serving Christians," says former U.S. soldier Brett Felton, who returned to Iraq to train Christians how to defend themselves from ISIS"

I think it is commendable; I expect it will occur with increased frequency as the state continues to lose legitimacy.

Anonymous Eric the Red March 23, 2015 6:53 PM  

So, according to Scuzzaman, we are not freed by Christ, instead we are compelled to meekly submit ourselves to be slaves to the forces of evil. Maybe he can cart his ass over to some hot spot in the Mideast and try out his interpretation of Christian pacifism on the Moslems who are killing 10,000 Christians a year and persecuting millions more. If he survives, he can come back to this blog and write a nice little exegesis on how effective it all turned out to be.

Historically then note: Christian martyrs in Rome did nothing to turn Rome into a bastion of Christianity. Moslems were not expelled from Spain by Christians in sackcloth and ashes singing hymns in front of mosques. The history of the utter ineffectiveness of Christian passivity goes on and on, but hey, that's ok, Scuzzaman can push that meme down everyone's throat regardless of its Truth. Because in the final analysis, Christ didn't come to turn the other cheek, he came to declare the Truth.

Anonymous Eric the Red March 23, 2015 6:58 PM  

So, according to Scuzzaman, we are not freed by Christ, instead we are compelled to meekly submit ourselves to be slaves to the forces of evil. Maybe he can cart his ass over to some hot spot in the Mideast and try out his interpretation of Christian pacifism on the Moslems who are killing 10,000 Christians a year and persecuting millions more. If he survives, he can come back to this blog and write a nice little exegesis on how effective it all turned out to be.

Historically then note: Christian martyrs in Rome did nothing to turn Rome into a bastion of Christianity. Moslems were not expelled from Spain by Christians in sackcloth and ashes singing hymns in front of mosques. The history of the utter ineffectiveness of Christian passivity goes on and on, but hey, that's ok, Scuzzaman can push that meme down everyone's throat regardless of its Truth. Because in the final analysis, Christ didn't come to turn the other cheek, he came to declare the Truth.

Anonymous Eric the Red March 23, 2015 7:02 PM  

Christian mathematical note:

70 x 7 = 490

I think the SJW's with their chimpout shock troops, as well as the Moslems of the Religion of Pieces have far surpassed that figure.

Time to get a move on, don't you think?

Anonymous Eric the Red March 23, 2015 7:04 PM  

Christian mathematical note:

70 x 7 = 490

I think the Cultural Marxists with their chimpout shock troops, as well as the Moslems of the Religion of Pieces have far surpassed that figure.

Time to get a move on, don't you think?

Blogger Akulkis March 23, 2015 11:55 PM  

Uh... ScuzzaMan is not worth liberating. Ass-kissing cowards deserve whatever hell they get.

Blogger ScuzzaMan March 24, 2015 10:21 PM  

You guys sure are funny. But I do notice it's pretty hard to scratch up an argument amongst the lot of you. Your fundamentally dishonest framing, your refusal to address the actual argument, and your circling back to take another passive-aggressive snipe on an irrelevant tangent: these behaviours have a label attached to them that our host says begins a giant G ...

A.B.Prosper is the exception amongst all the King-David-In-My-Own-Mind types in this thread.

It's a decision every man has to make for himself, A.B. If, as a Christian, you believe it is right to do violence to other men I wont condemn you, but I will try to persuade you otherwise. And I will never join you.

"Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the Lord our God."

When people claim to be Christians but fantasize about having "legitimate" cause to go to war, one has some grounds to question either their sincerity or their knowledge of the subjects. I'm not putting you in that category, that's not my point. The point is that self-reliance in an everyday sense is something that strengthens us, but pretending we can defend ourselves and those love better than God is a fatal error.

I'd recommend the sincere Christian ponder these words:

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill;"

I will not be practicing violence so I can do battle for God. I will be practicing charity so God will do battle for me. (That's the actual deal he offers us.)

And if he chooses not to, then I will answer as did Job:

"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him"

or the young hebrews before Nebuchadnezzar:

"16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up."

I think that gets it said.

Blogger Akulkis March 25, 2015 12:49 AM  

you're still a cowardly loser, and thus, not worth liberating.

OpenID simplytimothy March 25, 2015 3:07 PM  

@ScuzzaMan

Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the Lord our God."

This does not prohibit the use of horses and chariots. The old-testament is chock-full of the use of them and church history (including today) is full of examples of the christian use of the same. You confound the God ordained use of these tools with a trust in them. To use a counter-example. obama trusts in the use of the state to fulfill his goals, we trust in God and our state acts according to his principles. The former's faith is in the state, ours is in God and the state takes on the character of the people who wield the tool.

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

This is St. Paul speaking from jail, yes? Well God also spoke through Job speaking from sack-cloth and ashes. Is every Christian Job? Paul? Of course not. You conflate the particular instance as a general principle.


"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

That christian kid from Michigan following Christ to go defend His church in the middle east looks pretty foolish and weak compared to the might of the armies surrounding him. David wielding a sling looked damn foolish to, but he fought.

I will not be practicing violence so I can do battle for God. I will be practicing charity so God will do battle for me. (That's the actual deal he offers us.)

G.K. Chesterton contends that God's character is both the lion and the lamb and that the church was right to go to wars over points of doctrine. C.S. Lewis had Ransom kill the un-man in Perelanda. Both these Christians differed with your approach and, frankly, offer better arguments.

"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him"
Sure. God had just turned Satan on Job's ass as a lesson on God's soveriegnty and the nature of faith and the nature of the relationship between God and man. To conflate this with a principle of non-violence is ridiculous on its face.

This approach of yours, btw, is typical of a large number of protestants in America. Just my cursory reading of the matter has convinced me that it is wrong.



Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego...furnace...

Ehud, Eglon, sword and shit.

"Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord, and the Lord raised up for them a deliverer, Ehud, the son of Gera, the Benjaminite, a left-handed man. The people of Israel sent tribute by him to Eglon the king of Moab. 16 And Ehud made for himself a sword with two edges, a cubit[a] in length, and he bound it on his right thigh under his clothes. 17 And he presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab. Now Eglon was a very fat man. 18 And when Ehud had finished presenting the tribute, he sent away the people who carried the tribute. 19 But he himself turned back at the idols near Gilgal and said, “I have a secret message for you, O king.” And he commanded, “Silence.” And all his attendants went out from his presence. 20 And Ehud came to him as he was sitting alone in his cool roof chamber. And Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” And he arose from his seat. 21 And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. 22 And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out. 23 Then Ehud went out into the porch[b] and closed the doors of the roof chamber behind him and locked them."



I think that gets it said.

Yes, it is said often nowadays. it is a too common theology of emasculated christianity that disregards the whole counsel of God.











Blogger ScuzzaMan March 26, 2015 2:38 AM  

"You conflate the particular instance as a general principle. "

Just to correct you on this one point, it being entirely sufficient:

"Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition."

The problem is not that I wrongly conflate the particular as a general principle. No, explicitly these particulars were given to as as examples of the general principles to which we ought submit ourselves.

The problem is simply that you refuse, trusting in princes rather than God.

"It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in princes."

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help."

"For because thou hast trusted in thy works and in thy treasures, thou shalt also be taken: "

OpenID simplytimothy March 26, 2015 6:02 AM  

The problem is simply that you refuse, trusting in princes rather than God.

Retract that statement . I place no faith in men, only God.

Your scattershot verse quoting is no substitute for the substantive arguments I linked to earlier and I would be a fool to abide by your teachings as presented.

I am new to these ideas SuzzaMan, but even in my passing familiarity they have trumped every argument you have submitted.

My supposition that you American Evangelicals will be a source of Clausewitzian friction (in the moral sphere) is bearing out.

Expect more push back.

cheers.



Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts