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Sunday, March 01, 2015

Another response to Anita Sarkeesian

Sam Roberts of Reaxxion carefully considers Anita Sarkeesian's list of recommendations to "make games less shitty for women". This was #3 on his list of eloquent, well-reasoned, and above all, illustrative responses:
Have female characters of various body types

My response: No.

The temptation is always to say that Ms. Sarkeesian misrepresents the gaming industry, that there are actually plenty of female-friendly games, or that characters like the ones above are “strong women”, whom feminists should love.  This is the wrong answer.  By making this argument, you’re implicitly agreeing with Sarkeesian and her like that games need to be feminist-friendly; you’re just disagreeing on how feminist-friendly they are right now.  And once you’ve agreed with her there, you’ve given her the power to dictate what is and isn’t allowed.  After all, who’s going to know better about what games are SJW-friendly—you, or a women’s studies major?

The only response is this: If you don’t like games with big-boobed girls, don’t play them.
There is nothing to discuss. I speak only for myself, but my opinion happens to be shared by nearly ever game designer and game developer in the industry, regardless of whether they are Left, Right, or somewhere in the middle. We make the games we want to make. We play the games we want to play. If Anita Sarkeesian, or anyone else, wants to see different games made, then she is welcome to make her own. We're not going to do it.

Frankly, these ladies all look a bit beefy to me. Where are all the slender, snake-hipped girls with cheekbones you can shave with and BMIs of 17? Surely this is the rankest misogyny by bearded, round-bellied patriarchs!

Labels: , ,

85 Comments:

Blogger Ghost March 01, 2015 1:19 PM  

Wasn't it the left who always screamed at the Moral Majority, "if you don't like it, change the channel!"?

Blogger John Rampton March 01, 2015 1:20 PM  

Remember the line, if you don't like abortion, don't have one?

Anonymous pseudotsuga March 01, 2015 1:22 PM  

Y'know, I think World of Tanks needs some of them wimmen...We can strap some kitten armor onto the Jagdpanzers and then get Tank Girl (tm) to stand in the hatches directing fire.
And Minecraft needs wimmen, too.I'm sure 8-bit breasts will be excellent Creeper bait...(heh! Creeper!)

Blogger Ghost March 01, 2015 1:34 PM  

John,
Now, it's, "if you don't like abortion, fuck you, pay for mine."

Anonymous Heh March 01, 2015 1:35 PM  

A video game of Girls und Panzer would be awesome!

Blogger Nate March 01, 2015 1:49 PM  

No.

Its easy to say. It really is. And in fact.. you deltas and gammas should really try it sometime. And no gammas... you should not expand on your "no" with all of your special amazing reasoning. They answer is just "no". No debate. No discussion. No.

"But don't you think"

No.

"But we have a right..."

No.

"But don't you want to..."

No.

It really is extremely entertaining to watch their heads explode when you do this.

Anonymous grey enlightenment March 01, 2015 2:05 PM  

pretty much no one is on Anita Sarkeesian's side, expect the sows who write for Salon. You go on Reddit and 4chan and you see the sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of gamers and game designers.

Blogger Salt March 01, 2015 2:12 PM  

grey enlightenment, 4chan got taken over by the SJW crowd so the gamers went to 8chan. Just saying.

Anonymous DissidentRight March 01, 2015 2:19 PM  

I don't like ugly girls, so why would I want ugly girls in a video game?

Anonymous Scintan March 01, 2015 2:26 PM  

Its easy to say. It really is. And in fact.. you deltas and gammas should really try it sometime. And no gammas... you should not expand on your "no" with all of your special amazing reasoning. They answer is just "no". No debate. No discussion. No.

It takes a certain kind of man to maintain a position of IDGAF in the face of significant opposition, though. I'm not talking about so-called Alphas, either, as they crumble time and again.

I do it but, then again, I really DGAF, and I find the reactions amusing as all get out.

Blogger Salt March 01, 2015 2:30 PM  

The world needs a game app where it's highly populated with ugly, fat, racially diverse SJWs. Of course, they're the targets and it's best score in allotted time at wiping them out by chosen means at start of game.

Blogger IM2L844 March 01, 2015 2:33 PM  

No!

This is exactly right. No buts. There really is no point in a discussion where axiomatic assent to an invalid premise is a prerequisite.

Blogger Noah B March 01, 2015 2:34 PM  

Oh, so these aren't your girls? That explains the brunettes.

Anonymous Anubis March 01, 2015 2:42 PM  

"No! This is exactly right. No buts."

Moderate buts are ok but the breasts should be bigger.

Anonymous VanDerMerwe March 01, 2015 2:45 PM  

Team Ninja must have taken SJW's concerns to heart. They introduced the petite, flat chested, gothic lolita, listed as 18 years old, Marie Rose.

Blogger IM2L844 March 01, 2015 2:49 PM  

Moderate buts are ok but the breasts should be bigger.

Nothing short of weapons grade breasts will do.

Anonymous fish March 01, 2015 2:50 PM  

I don't like ugly girls, so why would I want ugly girls in a video game?

Targets?

Anonymous fish March 01, 2015 3:00 PM  

Targets?

Crap....missed Salts addressing of this notion upthread!

Anonymous DissidentRight March 01, 2015 3:00 PM  

Targets?

Lol, touche.

Blogger dw March 01, 2015 3:01 PM  

There's a scene in one of the Left Behind books (Indwelling, I think) where one of the characters visits Heaven and witnesses Satan attempting to bargain with the Lord and demand that He surrender humanity over to him.

The Lord's response? "No" to every single accusation and demand. He says "No" and interrupts every one of his demands until he's removed from the scene.

The writers of those books understood what the winning response is. You don't negotiate, you don't compromise, you don't bargain, you don't do anything with evil except deny it's place. You say "No".

OpenID mattse001 March 01, 2015 3:10 PM  

Yeah...I guess I wouldn't kick them out of bed for eating crackers.
But I'd still make them go fix me a sammich.

Blogger David March 01, 2015 3:11 PM  

If certain games can't be produced (because they supposedly induce Badthink, i.e., misogyny, in men) then some books should not be written for the same reason.

This isn't about entertainment, it's about book-burning.

Sark and her fellow travelers are overt totalitarians.

Anonymous karsten March 01, 2015 3:13 PM  

"Where are all the slender, snake-hipped girls with cheekbones you can shave with and BMIs of 17"

Barf.

Just my opinion, but I think the body types in that graphic are pretty much perfect (esp. the girl second from the left), and just right for female game characters.

Anonymous Viidad March 01, 2015 3:23 PM  

Too chunky for me. My gal is 5'7", 112 lbs. Much better.

Anonymous Aus Köln March 01, 2015 3:30 PM  

Nope...I'm with karsten on this one. I picked the same one....second from the left. Completely appropriate.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 01, 2015 4:02 PM  

(NO! Look, if the men wanted something interesting in fashion I point designers to 2ne1's "can't nobody", "I'm the best" or "I dont care." Cute edgy outfits, see Bom.

5;5 107's are need not apply or bother. But! In some outlets the skinnies are accepted. although I need to slim down.)

Dark Souls 2 has a few slut gear outfits but nothing cute. only in new game 2 or 3 allows or rewards either sex with various gear. in the event you wish to change your gender you can hop into a coffin to be reborn. Who thought of that? Not a woman.

Anita does not understand, gaming is for and by MEN not usurping, henhouzin' chics with no idea of anything. can she program, build intricate backgrounds, design weapons, know of lore to incorporate into a game? Nope. Didn't think so. Or does she?

Anonymous BioShock Jock March 01, 2015 4:07 PM  

Anita Sarkeesian so needs to be parodied in the next Grand Theft Auto game. Though by the time that's released the heifer will be forgotten. She's not bad looking overall. Plus she's probably one of the biggest skanks you could imagine in her private life. Which is fine, we aren't living in Talbian country. In some weird way it seems so-called professional womynist types are the biggest tramps.

Anonymous Mike March 01, 2015 4:08 PM  

"If you don’t like games with big-boobed girls, don’t play them."

But that's not the way of the SJW. If they don't like it, you can't do it.

Blogger Salt March 01, 2015 4:10 PM  

Far left for me.

"Red on the head, fire in the hole!"

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 01, 2015 4:28 PM  

How they must hate Kate Upton. Personally I avoid denigrating any one on their looks, IMO very little upside to that tactic

Anonymous Anonymous March 01, 2015 5:04 PM  

Hello, Mr. Vox;

You were the only reason I ever visited WND. Discovered this place about 18 months past.
Great writing/thinking, by both you, and the "ilk". Keep up the good work. If I have something
worth saying, I'll figure out how to register...... Until then, delete away..........

Anonymous Harsh March 01, 2015 5:06 PM  

But that's not the way of the SJW. If they don't like it, you can't do it.

If they don't like it, you shouldn't want to do it.

Blogger Nate March 01, 2015 5:17 PM  

"Too chunky for me. My gal is 5'7", 112 lbs. Much better."


bleh.

5'4 120. Tits and Ass weigh something after all... and if you don't what tits and ass... well you're basically screwing a 13 year old boy.

Blogger rycamor March 01, 2015 5:18 PM  

Frankly, these ladies all look a bit beefy to me. Where are all the slender, snake-hipped girls with cheekbones you can shave with and BMIs of 17? Surely this is the rankest misogyny by bearded, round-bellied patriarchs!

Really. How is this an "unrealistic standard of beauty"? Maybe the breasts are a little bigger than average, but other than that, these body types are quite attainable for most women with moderate exercise and diet.

When the SJWs speak about female "body types", what they are really talking about is female self-discipline types. We are all supposed to favor those with low self-discipline these days. Just another sign of societal crumbling.

Blogger rycamor March 01, 2015 5:35 PM  

Nate March 01, 2015 5:17 PM

"Too chunky for me. My gal is 5'7", 112 lbs. Much better."


bleh.

5'4 120. Tits and Ass weigh something after all... and if you don't what tits and ass... well you're basically screwing a 13 year old boy.


Mine tends more toward the latter, but either type can be sweet, as long as there's some hourglass shape going on. That's an absolute must.

Blogger Noah B March 01, 2015 5:43 PM  

An interesting black knight approach would be to have some "people of different body types" but make appropriate adjustments to strength, agility, endurance, etc. Really drive home the point that your character isn't going to do well in combat if she can't run more than a few steps without getting winded, falls frequently when she tries to run, and can't swing a weapon of any appreciable weight/won't pick up a gun because she doesn't believe in them.

IOW, force people who want to actually succeed in the game to acknowledge reality and choose an avatar that could realistically perform well.

Anonymous Mike M. March 01, 2015 5:44 PM  

"Where are all the slender, snake-hipped girls with cheekbones you can shave with and BMIs of 17?"

Vox, I thought you married that one. Not that I blame you.

Seriously, it's worth pointing out that the male characters in these games are all built like Adonis...instead of Quasimodo. Nobody wants to play the ugly.

Blogger rycamor March 01, 2015 6:03 PM  

Noah B March 01, 2015 5:43 PM

An interesting black knight approach would be to have some "people of different body types" but make appropriate adjustments to strength, agility, endurance, etc. Really drive home the point that your character isn't going to do well in combat if she can't run more than a few steps without getting winded, falls frequently when she tries to run, and can't swing a weapon of any appreciable weight/won't pick up a gun because she doesn't believe in them.


That could be hilarious. As in People of Walmart hilarious.

Blogger Noah B March 01, 2015 6:12 PM  

"As in People of Walmart hilarious."

Add in rycamor's brilliant title, and this could be a gold mine.

Anonymous Dan in Tx March 01, 2015 6:19 PM  

Heh: "A video game of Girls und Panzer would be awesome!"

Panzer Vor! With Nishizumi Chan leading from the commander's hatch. I'm in!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 01, 2015 6:24 PM  

And the girls in the picture are all very "white." As white as all the large breasted white women featured in this year's Super Bowl festivities. I thought the SJW fools would have said something about that but I guess white women sell and that trumps some people's opinion on social justice.

Blogger Noah B March 01, 2015 6:30 PM  

I didn't realize the "People of Wal-Mart" thing had been done before. It's so hard to be original these days.

Anonymous Harsh March 01, 2015 6:42 PM  

As white as all the large breasted white women featured in this year's Super Bowl festivities. I thought the SJW fools would have said something about that but I guess white women sell and that trumps some people's opinion on social justice.

Sorry, I got distracted after you said "large breasted white women". What were we talking about again?

Blogger frigger611 March 01, 2015 7:29 PM  

When the SJWs speak about female "body types", what they are really talking about is female self-discipline types. - rycamor

This is brilliant. Nice one, r!

Blogger Zimri March 01, 2015 7:38 PM  

And the girls in the picture are all very "white."

The one on the far left could be Mediterranean.

But yeah, none of those girls should be allowed onto the beach for very long.

Anonymous Will Best March 01, 2015 7:50 PM  

And the girls in the picture are all very "white." As white as all the large breasted white women featured in this year's Super Bowl festivities. I thought the SJW fools would have said something about that but I guess white women sell and that trumps some people's opinion on social justice.

Were you talking about the commercials or the half time show. Because the halftime show was chuck full of diversity. Lenny Kravitz, Missy Elliot, and of course the united colors backup dancers.

Blogger Captain Atom March 01, 2015 8:15 PM  

World of Tanks just added female crews, you win them in the new ongoing mission structure starting with the StuG IV.

The upcoming Armored Warfare will have them from the get go.

Anonymous pseudotsuga March 01, 2015 9:17 PM  

Captain Atom--will those tank crews be extra angry at certain times of the month?

Anonymous Leonidas March 01, 2015 10:03 PM  

Hilarious. My wife was actually a bigger fan of the Dead or Alive volleyball games than any of my male friends were because she enjoyed collecting accessories for the cute girls. Although DOAX2's bounce algorithm and, ahem, huge tracts of land, were a little too ridiculous for either one of us (to this day I still think they might have been intentional self parody).

Blogger ChicagoRefugee March 01, 2015 10:14 PM  

When the SJWs speak about female "body types", what they are really talking about is female self-discipline types. - rycamor

This is brilliant. Nice one, r!


Uh, no. Speaking as someone whose ancestors were presumably eastern European peasant farmers, hip bones and rib cages are generally impervious to body weight changes.

Not all women are ectomorphs; mesomorphs come in XX as well as XY configurations. Some of us are just genetically destined to more closely resemble the buxom barmaid with baby-birthing hips rather than the slim elegant aristocrat. (Proposed thesis title for SJW types: Always the Barmaid; Class and Body Type in English Literature.)

/solipsism

Blogger frigger611 March 01, 2015 10:20 PM  

Those girls do look a bit beefy. I prefer them more slender and agile.

About a dozen years ago I started up a relationship with a girl who admitted she was taking spinning classes.

And in my (somewhat dirty) mind I was exclaiming (Yes!!! Score!!) and at the same time wondering (they really have CLASSES for that?)

Imagine the big let-down when I learned it was just an exercise class where you pedal a stationary bicycle.

Blogger frigger611 March 01, 2015 10:27 PM  

ChicagoRefugee, that's a fair point.

But it doesn't change the fact that there exits FAR TOO MUCH excuse-making in our culture, and not enough of taking responsibility for one's actions, and the consequences of our poor choices and bad habits.

Whatever body type we have a predisposition for, we can improve ourselves with diet and exercise, which require self discipline.

So I find rycamor's sagacity exceedingly relevant.


Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 01, 2015 10:31 PM  

Why the short ugly hair?

Blogger Zimri March 01, 2015 10:55 PM  

Eliza: They're all dressed for riding b!txh on motorbikes. I guess they don't want their dreads getting caught on the back wheel.

Blogger rycamor March 01, 2015 11:06 PM  

ChicagoRefugee March 01, 2015 10:14 PM

When the SJWs speak about female "body types", what they are really talking about is female self-discipline types. - rycamor

This is brilliant. Nice one, r!

Uh, no. Speaking as someone whose ancestors were presumably eastern European peasant farmers, hip bones and rib cages are generally impervious to body weight changes.


I know there are different body types. But any of them can be fit for that body type. Big boned hips are only about 3-4 inches wider than small-boned, more or less. The center-right chick with black hair in the pic above has "big-boned" hips. Yes, rib cages are of a certain size and there's no changing that, but there ain't no such thing as a waist-bone.

I've seen slim little wisps of girls in their 20s turn into what looks like "big-boned" plenty of times.

So my point still stands. Different "body types" in modern SJW parlance has nothing to do with bone structure but that spectrum between self-indulgence and self-discipline.

Anonymous commander427 March 01, 2015 11:43 PM  

Heh: "A video game of Girls und Panzer would be awesome!"

They did release a Girls und Panzer game for the Ps Vita, and it looks like utter crap. They also made a table top game that might be better. I wonder what SJWs like Sarkeesian would think of Girls und Panzer. The show has an almost entirely female cast in roles that should be performed by men, but also has "oppressive body standards" and is actually entertaining.

Blogger bob k. mando March 01, 2015 11:46 PM  

LP 999/Eliza March 01, 2015 10:31 PM
Why the short ugly hair?



long hair is no more suitable for combat than it is as an accoutrement in a machine shop.

ie - if you want to get killed, keep it long so you can get it hung up in something.


OT, is Fred plagiarizing me by reading comments at this blog? he just posted an essay recommending limiting the franchise to +140 iqs.

boo, hiss, raciss, sexiss.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/IntelligentVote.shtml

Blogger Akulkis March 01, 2015 11:50 PM  

Anything more than C just sags and looks like a sack of shit.

Blogger Markku March 02, 2015 12:41 AM  

Although DOAX2's bounce algorithm

I just read an article on breast physics, though I can't recall where. But it's actually a complicated problem. The bone-spring animation system that's currently used for animating video game characters, works for all other body parts except breasts. They could be simulated in a physically accurate way, but it would be computationally too expensive for real time rendering.

Maybe this might be a good opportunity for Nvidia. Extend the hardware-accelerated PhysX processing unit with realistic breast physics. Gee, I wonder if nerds might be interested?

Blogger SQT March 02, 2015 12:49 AM  

. Some of us are just genetically destined to more closely resemble the buxom barmaid with baby-birthing hips rather than the slim elegant aristocrat.

I *wish* I was the buxom type. I wish I was the girl who gained weight in her boobs rather than her belly. I have to stay slim or I look awful. My sister-in-law, on the other hand, can weigh a good 30lbs more and be called buxom rather than fat. I hate it. ((fume)) Jealous? Damn right I am.

Blogger Markku March 02, 2015 12:51 AM  

Also, release a free technology demo where you get to bounce boobs for science. But sadly, it only works if you have a supported Nvidia card.

Anonymous Viidad March 02, 2015 12:52 AM  

@Nate

You can keep yours. No wonder you like to drink.

Anonymous Susan March 02, 2015 12:54 AM  

That is exactly what the one in the back row looks like she is experiencing. Regarding the "all white girls" comments, the one with the red belt looks like she could be a representative of the ghetto booty brigade. They actually are all good looking women.
Although silver head looks like she is flashing the one finger muslim sign though, allbeit sideways.

Blogger Akulkis March 02, 2015 1:03 AM  

"My sister-in-law, on the other hand, can weigh a good 30lbs more and be called buxom rather than fat. "

Yeah, but such admirers are generally immature idiots... who indulge women with low self discipline.....why?... because guys like that are losers, and want to hang out with loser women.

Your situation forces you to maintain self-discipline... which means, generally, self-disciplined men will notice your form and appreciate it.

Blogger Bogey March 02, 2015 1:20 AM  

There's a whole fetish dedicated to BBWs but I don't think those guys play or make video games.

Anonymous Clay March 02, 2015 2:03 AM  

Though I try to avoid agreeing with Nate too much, he is correct:

"Too chunky for me. My gal is 5'7", 112 lbs. Much better."


bleh.

5'4 120. Tits and Ass weigh something after all... and if you don't what tits and ass... well you're basically screwing a 13 year old boy.

So. That's that.

And....My pot-metal mini-14 just wasted 5 hogs in your adopted state.

Anonymous Crusader Corim. March 02, 2015 8:00 AM  

5'0", 95lbs. Unless you can reverse curl her, it isn't even fun.

Blogger CM March 02, 2015 8:13 AM  

I'm fat. And pregnant. Bowling ball tummy ' s anyone?

It's ok. It's attractive to the guy who made it ;)

Back to researching post partum compression therapy...

Blogger SQT March 02, 2015 9:18 AM  

Your situation forces you to maintain self-discipline... which means, generally, self-disciplined men will notice your form and appreciate it.

I guess that's true. I have been with my husband for 20-years while my SIL is currently living with her fifth live-in "love of her life". So, I guess discipline does pay off in the end.

Blogger S1AL March 02, 2015 11:09 AM  

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that guys tend to prefer women who more closely resemble their own body types (willowy vs curvy, etc).

Blogger Anthony March 02, 2015 1:21 PM  

If you want to tie them up in rhetorical knots, ask them why feminists, who are supposedly for equality, haven't complained about the lack of different male body types in games. After all, aren't pudgy, non-athletic men just as likely to have their ego damaged by seeing all those ultra-fit, highly-muscled men running around in video games?

Blogger CM March 02, 2015 4:12 PM  

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that guys tend to prefer women who more closely resemble their own body types (willowy vs curvy, etc).

Really? I'd see that with narcissistic men, but jack sprat and his wife sure are common.

I'd think a man more likely to find a body type not like theirs to be attractive. Of course with exception.

When my husband is in shape, he is very triangular (Johnny bravo style). I'm a bottom heavy hour glass (not quite pear shaped... though 3 pregnancies have messed with that a bit).

I DO think a man is attracted to (or content with) the same discipline he has. So a fit guy is going to want a fit wife while a couch potato would be content with a couch potato.

Blogger S1AL March 02, 2015 5:23 PM  

"Really? I'd see that with narcissistic men, but jack sprat and his wife sure are common."

I'd chalk that one up to lack of options rather than preference, given the people I know in those kinds of pairings.

But if you watch guys who do have options, they seem to match up with girls who lean towards their own morphic types... that doesn't mean exactly the same, but rather degrees of separation. So the Endomorphic guy is gonna prefer curvier women than the ecto-meso.

But that might just be perception bias talking. I'd be interested to know if anyone has actually done a study in that direction. I was only able to find ones that talked about the averaged "ideal," which is basically the opposite of what I want.

Blogger James Dixon March 02, 2015 5:43 PM  

> After all, aren't pudgy, non-athletic men just as likely to have their ego damaged by seeing all those ultra-fit, highly-muscled men running around in video games?

You asking at the wrong place. Why don't your try asking at whatever.scalzi.com? I'm sure they would know more about it than we do.

Blogger Danby March 02, 2015 6:44 PM  

you want what you shoose to want. preferences are not inborn.
I had direct experience of this when my wife was undergoing chemo 5 years ago. One of the side-effects of chemo was, contrary to our expectations, weight gain, which we were told is rather common.

So as an exercise in emotional self-discipline, I highly recommend maintaining sexual attraction to a bald, mutilated, seriously overweight woman who smells of death, has temporarily lost 30 IQ points, and is about as emotionally brittle as it's possible to get.

It's no fun, but you will realize that, like many other things you think are inborn, it's all a matter of choice.

Duty is a stern master.

Anonymous Joe Author March 03, 2015 12:25 AM  

“We make the games we want to make. We play the games we want to play. If Anita Sarkeesian, or anyone else, wants to see different games made, then she is welcome to make her own. We're not going to do it.”


Completely agree. She is certifiably insane. Now apply the same logic to the “Pink SF’ers”. They can create what they want to create. NO gatekeeping. You can certainly try to shut them down by shaming them or outright seeking to destroy them. In the end, they have the liberty to write what they want to and attempt to sell it to their consumers, perhaps making a profit in the process.


“If certain games can't be produced (because they supposedly induce Badthink, i.e., misogyny, in men) then some books should not be written for the same reason.”

Exactly. If Pink SF books or games can’t be produced (since they allegedly are anti-civilization) or efforts are made to ensure that can’t be produced (can we say gatekeeping), then these materials should not be authored for the same reason.

Blogger Markku March 03, 2015 4:28 AM  

Exactly. If Pink SF books or games can’t be produced (since they allegedly are anti-civilization) or efforts are made to ensure that can’t be produced (can we say gatekeeping), then these materials should not be authored for the same reason.

None of us are trying to prevent the publication of Pink SF/F, and I don't know where you have got this idea from, that we are. We believe that if things are again left to pure market forces, then there will be a tiny fringe of SJW SF/F (hardcore Pink SF/F), a larger but still minority market segment of romantic SF/F aimed at women (we might call this innocuous Pink SF/F), and a majority of traditional (or "blue") SF/F.

If this turns out to not be the case, then we might find it distasteful, and mutter to ourselves how Most People Are Idiots, but we will not attempt to put any gatekeepers in place to prevent its publication. We will be perfectly content with mocking it, and that is more for entertainment than cultural war.

Blogger Markku March 03, 2015 10:45 AM  

As Vox has often stated, we want to be Fox News. We want to grab a hilariously underserved market segment, and just by virtue of having so little competition in it, dominate the entirety of the market. That is the extent of our plan. It doesn't involve genre totalitarism.

Sadly, there is Baen. It is a force to be reckoned with.

The Greedy Capitalist in me hopes it gets subverted by SJW's. The Nice Guy in me says, this segment is big enough for both of us.

Anonymous Joe Author March 03, 2015 11:41 PM  

“It doesn't involve genre totalitarism.”

Deftly stated, sir, but observably cornering the market through a virtual monopoly will inevitably lead to the desired outcome. More power to you to achieve your noble objective, because everyone knows that Pink SF is morally reprehensible—their stories “destroy Western Civilization”; their characters represent “insane and societally suicidal ideas”. Since this “genre” is inherently sinful, there is “justification” to cleanse the world from such an abomination. How can something this evil continue to be allowed to be produced? So people can contend that Pink SF and Blue SF will be able to “co-exist”—but the bottom line is that Sarkeesianesque strategies will be employed overtly and covertly to remove any and all vestiges of Pink SF literature. Fox News indeed!

Don’t try to kid yourself. Just be honest. If Pink SF was obliterated, you would be perfectly content. That’s fine, no problem here on my part, because in the end, it doesn’t matter. People will create what they want. People will consume what they want, regardless of “pure market forces”.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 12:17 AM  

Of course, if it were obliterated by the market for it going to zero. I would be veritably giddy. But if it were attempted any other way, it would attract the lure of the forbidden fruit. And that would be short-sighted indeed.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 12:19 AM  

By "pure market forces" I meant "what people would buy, if left to themselves without any coercive manipulation of the supply."

Blogger Desiderius March 04, 2015 12:50 AM  

Joe Author,

"How can something this evil continue to be allowed to be produced?"

Because it's a free fucking country, dipshit. What are you trying to accomplish with this sophistry?

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 1:03 AM  

The unintended consequences of the sort of censorship he suggests are always much worse than the short-term good it might do.

Anonymous Joe Author March 05, 2015 1:01 AM  

"The unintended consequences of the sort of censorship he suggests are always much worse than the short-term good it might do."

Unintended? No, it is absolutely premeditated. Listen, Pink SF is Cultural Marxism at its core, and Cultural Marxism is immoral and evil, at least that’s what people here say.

Regardless, read what you want, write what you want.

Blogger Markku March 05, 2015 3:12 AM  

Unintended?

Yes. The consequences being that it raises the attractiveness of the forbidden material through the lure of the forbidden fruit, and that when you put a mechanism in place that will do the gatekeeping, you will have very little control over it in the long run. Chances are it will turn on you.

Hence, one does not forbid material except for exceptionally good reasons. Child porn applies, due to the way it is produced. Pink SF/F doesn't.

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