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Thursday, March 19, 2015

Boys vs women

So tonight Ender's team played a friendly against a women's 1st league team. Ender's team are juniors, which means they are between the ages of 15 and 18; essentially a high school varsity team. 1st league is the top female level below the professional teams.

Out of curiosity, I timed it. Despite the boys mostly showboating and ball-hogging against a defense with 9 players in the box, the boys nearly had a tap-in goal in the first 30 seconds. And it took 9 minutes before the ball crossed midfield in possession of the women. It was 8-0 at halftime, at which point the coaches put some of our first team players who had finished their practice in with the women, and had some of the players switch teams. That made it a little more interesting for everyone.

Ender played the second half for the boys and only let in one goal, but it was against one of the first team men. So, when you hear people trying to tell you that women can compete with men in anything athletic, you'll know they're not to be taken seriously.

And to put it in perspective, this was the junior team that lost 5-1 to the men's first team. Which lost to our veterans team. It's not that the women couldn't play, they were actually pretty sound both technically and tactically. But they just played at a much slower speed. You'd see a woman with a 10-foot lead on the ball, and yet the boy would still get to the ball first. The boys didn't really use their strength or size advantage, merely the speed differential was sufficient to render the game uncompetitive.

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186 Comments:

Anonymous NFL4Life March 19, 2015 5:20 PM  

Is this post about soccer? Is your son gay? Why does he play a queer "sport" mate? As Ann Coulter says, it id downright unAmerican.

Blogger MATT March 19, 2015 5:23 PM  

How did the women react afterwards?

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 19, 2015 5:27 PM  

NationalFelonLegioin4Life- That goes against the rules of the blog. But even gays don't want a guy that will drop down on the ground and cry when another guy comes within 10' of him like PRO soccer. Enjoy your game of steroid abusing felons while you fantasize about what goes on in their locker room.

Two boys vs women articles in a row, did the women try to flash there breasts to get control of the ball?

Even the best women's pro sports can barely compete against boys.
These two links show two sets of track and field records. This one is for female world record holders: (http://trackandfield.about.com/od/worldrecords/tp/Women-s-world-records.htm)
… and this one is for U.S. amateur high school boys: (https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/records/30-records/277-mens-outdoor-high-school-records)

Blogger Vox March 19, 2015 5:32 PM  

How did the women react afterwards?

Everything was very friendly. There were no surprises. Two of the girls had played with the boys growing up.

Blogger MATT March 19, 2015 5:35 PM  

Were the girls hot? Do you have pictures?

Blogger JDC March 19, 2015 5:39 PM  

@MATT - I think you are confusing this with the preceding, "Equality in Sentencing" post.

Blogger Corvinus March 19, 2015 5:49 PM  

It's not that the women couldn't play, they were actually pretty sound both technically and tactically. But they just played at a much slower speed.

As I noticed a few months ago for the first time, WNBA basketball is like NBA basketball at half speed.

Anonymous Salt March 19, 2015 5:52 PM  

Even in golf the men tee off further. It's only the short game where the odds get equal. In soccer, if a woman has enough leg strength perhaps a penalty kick might be equal odds.

OpenID cailcorishev March 19, 2015 6:11 PM  

Heck, in freaking billiards there's a huge difference between the men and women pros. Not just on the break, where strength matters, but also on delicate shots. The men basically never miss, and always leave the cue ball where they want it. I've played guys in amateur beer leagues who could compete with the pro women.

Blogger Doom March 19, 2015 6:31 PM  

And there is more. A woman I was recently speaking with burned herself. I asked if she had been boiling pasta, or making water for tea. Her whole forearm, a quarter around, was badly burned. Nope, the hot water out of the faucet, which can't be boiling or it wouldn't work. I stir my pasta, while it is boiling, with my hands sometimes. I take eggs out of boiling water by hand. Fragile creatures. Unless other men also can't do that either?

Blogger valiance. March 19, 2015 6:39 PM  

I always enjoy the posts about the physical differences between the sexes. Your realtalk on this issue is part of what got me to read the blog. Hope the block quotes aren't too long.

national review article from 2008 covers this well: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/225402/olympian-political-correctness-todd-gallagher

"the women’s Olympic record in the 100 meters, set in 1988 by superstar Florence Griffith-Joyner, is virtually identical to the U.S. record for 14-year-old boys"

"Nor is the 100 meters an aberration. In sport after sport, evidence shows that the top female professional athletes in the world are on par with the best American 14- and 15-year-old boys."

"Direct competition between women and boys tends to confirm the gap: the women’s Olympic hockey team has lost to boys’ high school junior-varsity teams; the women’s Olympic soccer team has lost to club teams of 15-year-old boys, the Colorado Silver Bullets professional baseball team has lost to American Legion squads — the list goes on and on."

and D&D players might enjoy this: http://rolesrules.blogspot.com/2012/02/ad-gender-differences-not-big-enough.html

"2.5% of women are physically stronger than the average man, and 2.5% of men are less strong than the average woman. If you assume that the male is the norm for the D&D character (and given the premises of this discussion, hey, why not?), this translates to a -6 penalty to female Strength, so that the top 2.5th percentile cutoff of the female distribution (3d6 roll of 17+) matches the top 50th percentile cutoff of the male one (3d6 roll of 11+)"

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2015 6:40 PM  

At the club level women started showing up to compete against me in the 60's and I was willing to accept them at face value.

It didn't take long, however, before I stopped taking them seriously, and they started asking for their own division for exactly the same reason.

Anonymous Nobles March 19, 2015 6:41 PM  

>" I take eggs out of boiling water by hand."

That's a bit extreme. I splash boiling water on myself on occasion. It hurts. I rinse my hand under cold water and get on with things. My wife gets splashed with boiling water and shrieks like you wouldn't believe. I know she wants sympathy, but I also think she legitimately feels it more than I do. Not sure what that's all about.

Anonymous Salt March 19, 2015 6:42 PM  

Doom, you need help. Know what temp water boils at?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 19, 2015 6:47 PM  

Alright, good game, it appears the speed differential decided things.

Oh dear, Salt, Doom, depending upon the severity of the burn silver colloidal cream is helpful in healing and pain relief. It will also or usually in time, fade a scar.

Blogger valiance. March 19, 2015 6:48 PM  

@Nobles: women simply feel (most sorts of) pain more acutely than men do. Well established physiological difference. e.g. from a 2013 review from the British Journal of Anaesthesia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23794645

"The expansive body of literature in this area clearly suggests that men and women differ in their responses to pain, with increased pain sensitivity and risk for clinical pain commonly being observed among women."

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2015 6:49 PM  

" . . . silver colloidal cream is helpful in healing and pain relief."

But skin responds best to zinc.

Anonymous Salt March 19, 2015 6:50 PM  

LP 999/Eliza, he does it on a (i guess) regular basis. Look at what he said, " Unless other men also can't do that either?"

Doom, you'd be great on camping trips. "Here, hold this marsmallow in the fire a moment."

Anonymous Northern Observer March 19, 2015 6:51 PM  

Similar to the 'Best' Women's hockey team in the world:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/u-women-hockey-team-scrimmaging-against-high-school-170704740--oly.html

Anonymous Michael of Charlotte March 19, 2015 6:53 PM  

Sorry Vox, I simply don't believe it. I'm going to need pics of the female team to be sure it happened.

Blogger Hrodgar March 19, 2015 6:53 PM  

I heard this something like third hand, and haven't bothered to look further into it, so take it with a grain of salt. But a guy I know read an article someplace that quoted a man who had undergone the necessary mutilations to take on a facsimile of the female form. Apparently the mutilatee claimed one of the biggest differences he noticed as we underwent the various hormone treatments was increase in sensitivity of touch. It was easier to make fine distinctions by feel, but his pain tolerance dropped through the floor.

Like I said, not sure if that's true or not. But it meshes with my experience.

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2015 6:55 PM  

" I'm going to need pics of the female team to be sure it happened. "

Naked, to be sure they're female.

Anonymous Nobles March 19, 2015 6:56 PM  

So, maybe childbirth isn't so painful after all...

Anonymous Anubis March 19, 2015 6:57 PM  

I wonder I so many people using dishwashers instead of washing by hand matters for these boiling water tests. I recall the first things I did in a college biology lab was put one arm in an ice water bucket the other in a hot water bucket until you adapt to them, then put both arms in a lukewarm bucket to realize how subjective observations are, since the same water felt different to each arm. Its always amazing to hear women talk like kickboxing with other women with pads on means they could win a bar fight with a guy.

Anonymous WaterBoy March 19, 2015 6:59 PM  

Doom: "Unless other men also can't do that either?"

Sure, if I hold 'em under cold tap water for a few seconds first. That, and being at higher altitude lowers the boiling point a few degrees.

Still, men also have the capacity for inventing these things called tools, so we don't have to.

Anonymous Earl March 19, 2015 7:04 PM  

How do women do against men in poker?

Blogger SirHamster March 19, 2015 7:15 PM  

Still, men also have the capacity for inventing these things called tools, so we don't have to.

But how else do you get bragging rights for dipping your hand into molten lead?

Anonymous Anubis March 19, 2015 7:16 PM  

"did the women try to flash there breasts to get control of the ball"

The last time I was in Italy was in the 90s do women shave their armpits now?

Anonymous zen0 March 19, 2015 7:22 PM  

@ Doom

Nope, the hot water out of the faucet, which can't be boiling or it wouldn't work. I stir my pasta, while it is boiling, with my hands sometimes. I take eggs out of boiling water by hand.

Where do you live, Mt. Everest?

Blogger Chris Mallory March 19, 2015 7:26 PM  

15-18 year old males are not "boys". They are young men.

Blogger Seneca March 19, 2015 7:28 PM  

Women pro golfers put SIGNIFICANTLY worse then men pros.

"The most striking statistical difference in 10 years' worth of accumulated data from male and female tour professionals isn't the 30-yard edge in driving distance. It's how much better the men putt. The best male putters take about half a stroke less per round on the greens than their female counterparts."

Blogger Nate March 19, 2015 7:29 PM  

" As Ann Coulter says, it id downright unAmerican."

Vox doesn't live in america... and his son isn't american.

You'd blithering idiot.

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2015 7:32 PM  

"15-18 year old males are not "boys". They are young men."

Didn't I say that on the other side of the record?

Blogger Nate March 19, 2015 7:34 PM  

the most bizarre hollywood myth is not that women are strong... its that they are faster than men and can use their speed to defeat men.

Blogger JDC March 19, 2015 7:39 PM  

its that they are faster than men and can use their speed to defeat men.

It makes the Avenger's movie almost unwatchable...seeing 5'3'' Scarlet Johansen take out a group of armed men. For some reason movies love to have the gals perform the "jump on their necks" and throw them to the ground rendering them unconscious move. Works in porn (as I have been told)...not so much in action movies.

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2015 7:50 PM  

The best I can figure is that they squeaked through Physics for Poets with a D, but failed biology. They can figure the inertia, but not the power.

Anonymous starr March 19, 2015 7:55 PM  

The result is similar to what I have seen, there was a friendly game between a women's team in the national league against a boy's U/16 state team. Before the game I figured the boys would win but that it would be somewhat competitive, but even boys at that age were just way in to fast in their speed and ball movement for the women to cope. The game ended up something like 15-0 with the boys basically knocking the ball around and showing off their tricks in the second half. The women never got control of the ball more than 30m from their goal, except when they kicked off after each goal.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 19, 2015 7:55 PM  

Hard to believe that even in calcio, physical ability is such an advantage. You would think that with sufficient skill, you could rout your physical superiors in this sport, but they would have to be literal first time players of the sport. Absilute scrubs. I even a little ability is there, the faster ones will win.

Btw Vox, do you still believe that the average man could kick Rousey's ass? People in MMA forums claim that she could "make you her bitch". I know they are full of shit, but the claim that normal men could beat a peak female with an ocean of difference in skill seems hard to swallow.

For one, Judo is about balance. One doesn't need to be stronger than someone, to trip them. Two, the rear naked choke is a pretty strength immune submission, meaning, you cannot just power your way outta that. At least most guys couldn't.

Small male fighters flyweights would crush lots of big guys who never fought. If they can overcome the physical disadvantages, couldn't women? I mean, surely you don't think you could beat Demetrius Johnson, right? Arguably, the difference between the average guy and Rousey is like between you and DJ. (or not?)

I am tempted to make a thread at sherdog.net that there is a blogger claiming that he could crush Rousey, pointing to one of your posts about her. I really want to see you take them apart (or them, you I suppose).

Blogger Lyman L Solo March 19, 2015 8:04 PM  

Dungeons & Dragons: just give the women 2d6 to roll for strength. Probably should do the same for hobbits.

Anonymous Stingray March 19, 2015 8:05 PM  

How do women do against men in poker?

I don't believe a woman has ever even made it to the final table in the World Series of Poker.

Anonymous MendoScot March 19, 2015 8:06 PM  

Doom, you need help. Know what temp water boils at?

If he's fast, it's good. If he's not ...

Anonymous snapper john mc March 19, 2015 8:09 PM  

Boys vs Women, or, just another soccer match.

Anonymous NFL4Life March 19, 2015 8:26 PM  

"Vox doesn't live in america... and his son isn't american."

The Good Lord invented the NFL rules and America, if the NFL was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me, mate. God bless the USA. Besides, God gave us hands for a reason... soccer is the sport of gays and neocons.

Blogger Josh March 19, 2015 8:29 PM  

if the NFL was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me, mate.

You dumbass heretic, everyone knows Jesus is a fan of SEC football.

Anonymous Will Best March 19, 2015 8:33 PM  

I recall reading that the US Olympic women's hockey team practices against high school boys because the college teams were so far out of their league.

Were the girls hot? Do you have pictures?

Nothing shapes a woman's body quite like soccer. I know the cheerleaders get all the attention, but when I was in high school, I don't think there was a woman less than a 9 on the women's varsity soccer team.

Anonymous VD March 19, 2015 8:38 PM  

Vox, do you still believe that the average man could kick Rousey's ass? People in MMA forums claim that she could "make you her bitch". I know they are full of shit, but the claim that normal men could beat a peak female with an ocean of difference in skill seems hard to swallow.

Absolutely. Again, you cannot fathom the speed difference unless you watch it in action. I had to caution Ender about kicking a goal kick to a wide open defender because it took her so long to control it, turn, and kick it upfield that an attacker who was 15 yards away would be on her and block the ball before she could do it. If she'd been a boy, she'd have been wide open. Being a woman, she was effectively covered.

Another time, the star of the boy's team took on FOUR defenders and went right through them. One, two, three, four. He can't reliably get past a single men's team defender or the better boys' team defenders.

Small male fighters flyweights would crush lots of big guys who never fought. If they can overcome the physical disadvantages, couldn't women? I mean, surely you don't think you could beat Demetrius Johnson, right? Arguably, the difference between the average guy and Rousey is like between you and DJ. (or not?)

The comparison doesn't hold. The smaller guys are MUCH faster than the big guys. Rousey is not only smaller, she is slower too. As for Johnson, I wouldn't count me out. I may be middle-aged, but I'm a former D1 100m sprinter and I am trained to fight. He's still faster and he's still much better, but I outweigh him by 70 pounds and I can literally curl him ten times. I wouldn't be at all afraid to get in the ring with him, and I'm not sure he'd be willing to get in the ring with someone my size, strength, and speed. I know people seem to think I'm small, but I'm the size of an NFL cornerback.

He might well beat me, but he'd probably have to tire me out to do it. And I'd only need to connect once to knock him out and quite possibly break something. There is a very good reason for weight classes, and you do not ever see flyweights fight light heavyweights.

Blogger Jehu March 19, 2015 8:38 PM  

You're talking about a 2-3 sigma delta between means there, which probably puts the range where a given man is stronger/faster/etc than any woman who has ever lived somewhere in the 3-4 sigma range.

Most authors try to fudge this in their writing---some of the more honest ones in contemporary fiction write like the delta is on the order of 1 sigma (SM Stirling comes to mind). One sigma differences people talk about how you can 'work harder' or be 'more skilled' to overcome it and aren't totally talking out their asses. Two sigma deltas are just plain sick to overcome and three is insane.

Here would be a real world building author challenge. Write a world that doesn't blow the verisimilitude budget where the delta between men and women really is only say +1 sigma. All cultures in the world are profoundly shaped by that central difference, especially the more hostile the environment is (you can do a lot of agriculture in most of Africa with center of the curve female strength and capability, not so in most of Europe).

Anonymous JCB March 19, 2015 8:45 PM  

Barbara Enright is the only female to make the final table in the main event. It was back when the field was much smaller. There are a few females who are legit and win at the big stakes, like Jen Harman, but you can count them on one hand.

Blogger JohnR219 March 19, 2015 8:47 PM  

Stingray: Barbara Enright has made it to a final table once. The only woman to do so.

Nate: Aren't Vox and Spacebunny both American? Wouldn't that make Ender an American? I don't believe Italy has birthright citizenship.

Blogger JohnR219 March 19, 2015 8:48 PM  

Dammit JCB. You beat me by 2 minutes while I was researching it...

Blogger ajw308 March 19, 2015 8:58 PM  

@JDC, The thought of Scarlet Johansen wrapping her legs around one's neck is tantalizing, especially once one's suspends belief, which is kinda necessary to watch a lot of movies.

Anonymous Anubis March 19, 2015 9:14 PM  

"Two, the rear naked choke is a pretty strength immune submission, meaning, you cannot just power your way outta that. At least most guys couldn't. "

That's where iron neck comes in the easiest iron body part test to pass.

Blogger dw March 19, 2015 9:15 PM  

In the Marvel universe, Black Widow was given the same serum Captain America had. They never explain it in the movies, but it's part of the canon.

Blogger dw March 19, 2015 9:19 PM  

"Vox doesn't live in america... and his son isn't american."

That's retarded. Both Vox and SB are American, therefore their son is American. Being born in a different country at best just makes you a citizen.

Anonymous Will Best March 19, 2015 9:24 PM  

In the Marvel universe, Black Widow was given the same serum Captain America had. They never explain it in the movies, but it's part of the canon.

It was retconned in sometime in the last decade.

---

Seems sort of silly to compare the current crop of women to men though. Everybody knows the future of women's sports belongs to the transgendered.

With Johnson and Johnson now exploiting a teen "woman" as their spokesman for clean and clear its only a matter of time before the Olympic committee has to let some man who cut his dick off compete.

Blogger MATT March 19, 2015 9:24 PM  

Ronda Rousey would have to somehow get the guy in a particularly painful submission or choke. If she gets hit in the head, shes going to feel it. For this fantasy match to be discussed meaningfully, it must be assumed the man is trying to hurt her. Not roll around with her and try to get her to tap. Male fighters resort to ground game, grappling etc because they know a knockout isnt so easy when you're both standing and can block. Against a woman it would be much easier.

Anonymous zen0 March 19, 2015 9:30 PM  

@ NFL4Life

God gave us hands for a reason...

In Soccer, hands are used for emotive gesturing, poking people in the eye, expressing fake sympathy for a fake injury, and subtle changes of trajectory of the ball..

My favorite is the hands palm up, arms fully extended down, spine erect, eyes bugged out, meaning WTF!!??

I think the NFL would do well to adopt this practice.

Blogger dw March 19, 2015 9:32 PM  

"It was retconned in sometime in the last decade."

Which is odd, you'd think they would want to keep her normal as a way of making a statement.

Blogger stevo March 19, 2015 9:33 PM  

That's the one thing we can't compare

Anonymous RBS March 19, 2015 9:48 PM  

With examples such as yours being rather easy to find, I find tedious the men who have bought into the propaganda that women can do anything a man can do EQUALLY well. Doesn't anyone have to take a basic biology class in high school anymore? Another example: at my Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gym a man who outranks me, out sizes me, and who is significantly stronger than me was commenting on how strong I am. I shrugged and said, "Sure, for a girl I am strong." He was offended that I had even implied any sort of biological inequality, despite his own surprise at my strength.

Blogger stevo March 19, 2015 10:07 PM  

That's the one thing we can't compare

Blogger MATT March 19, 2015 10:10 PM  

RBS, theres a video on youtube of Rousey practicing with a much larger man and its like watching an adult with a particularly determined child at best. All the talk of magic techniques allowing a woman or smaller man damage a larger stronger attacker is dangerous. In a bar or wherever and the bigger guy is just squaring in your face, you can get the jump on him but unless oure right on too of him and choking him out or gouging an eye out, youll need to be ready for him to retaliate. Its just not realistic. Womens self defense classes should offer "Shooting Range Fridays".

Anonymous Stingray March 19, 2015 10:14 PM  

JCB and JohnR219,

Ahh. Thank you for the correction.

Anonymous HalibetLector March 19, 2015 10:14 PM  

Doesn't anyone have to take a basic biology class in high school anymore?

I went to public HS in the 90s and 2 areas that were never covered in any of my science classes were human anatomy and physics. When I took physics in college, the professor had to explain the Pythagorean theorem because at least half the class didn't know how to calculate the hypotenuse of a right triangle. By the by, most of that class went on to become engineers. They're the people building your roads, bridges, cars and airplanes.

OpenID cailcorishev March 19, 2015 11:22 PM  

Two sigma deltas are just plain sick to overcome and three is insane.

When you put it in those terms, it's no wonder the gap is so large. Expecting a woman to compete physically against men is like expecting a 100-IQ kid to be faster at algebra than a 160-IQ kid, as long as he practices a lot.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother March 19, 2015 11:29 PM  

Turn your head to the side when being choked. You'll last longer. Rousey's rear naked choke could be broken by grabbing the back of her head if you're flexible enough and pulling her over your shoulder. That's how I remove my oldest yard ape from my neck.

Anonymous AT March 19, 2015 11:45 PM  

@Corvinus:
As I noticed a few months ago for the first time, WNBA basketball is like NBA basketball at half speed.

WNBA basketball is more like over-40 men's league, with smaller, weaker players.

I was a decent, but not great leaper. At 6 feet and 215 lbs, when I was 22 I could dunk anything I could palm and had a vertical leap of 29-30 inches. At 43 (same weight) my standing vertical is about 22 inches. I was a solid double-double starter on a small private high school team.

For comparison, the average WNBA player has a vertical leap of 21 inches, is slightly under 6 feet tall, and weighs about 165.


Blogger Double E March 19, 2015 11:48 PM  

the rhonda rousey whiners need to understand the difference between the average man, and the average fighter.

As someody who has choked out people that weight 100lbs more than me, and been defeated by people who barely weigh 100lbs, I have no doubt in my mind that Rousey would stand a legit chance against some random dude sitting behind a cubicle.

however That does not mean a fight against any male on any MMA organization roster would be anything other than a mercifully short bloodbath.

Anonymous dc red dogs March 19, 2015 11:50 PM  

News flash, Humans who walk around 24-7 with the equipment and the hydraulics necessary to gestate babies for 9 months are less agile at almost all sports than people who do not walk around with that equipment.
There's more too it than that, of course. Mutual respect should always be shown, but it often isn't, because we are a society - right wing, left wing, there is little difference - that glories in its unawareness of the imperatives of fertility. This is not a bell curve issue, this is the issue that has ruined horse racing, where only relative midgets who never faced the challenge of growing up and growing tall are allowed to compete as the human factor. Yes I think it is low-class, and, even worse, irreligious, to set a group of young females to athletically compete against a group of young males. Maybe it will be acceptable in the next world, or at the old folks' home. Not in this world, though.

Anonymous kfg March 20, 2015 12:02 AM  

" . . . this is the issue that has ruined horse racing, where only relative midgets . . . . are allowed to compete . . ."

In same sense that what has ruined American football is that relative midgets are not allowed to compete.

Anonymous NateM March 20, 2015 12:25 AM  

"Nope, the hot water out of the faucet, which can't be boiling or it wouldn't work. I stir my pasta, while it is boiling, with my hands sometimes. I take eggs out of boiling water by hand."

TinyTim, is that you?

"Jesus is a fan of SEC football"

I believe you have him confused with Satan again

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit March 20, 2015 1:32 AM  

Nah. All Rousey needs to win a legit fight against a guy is a CCR. :-)

I've done martial arts off and on all my life, and it's cured me of any notion that the whole "kick ass girl" phenom in the media is anything other than a lie. And a dangerous one at that. Unless the über trained femme uses her skill to put enough distance between herself and her opponent to put several rounds in the guy, she's toast.

I'm old now, but I can recall being young, fit and in good form, and just barely being able to move the stationary bag with a kick. Then some n00b guy no bigger than me would flatten the thing with one kick.

As a side note, comparing gals in a sport to guys in a sport won't do to predict the outcome of a fight. Women aren't wired for pointless winning at some ultimately irrelevant game (yes, I know you gents don't feel that way about futbol or poker. That's the point) but, they're also far less honorable in a fight than the average guy ( as we should be. Guys have no business beating up on women, and gals have no business fighting unless we can't avoid it.)

Also football is way more fun to play and to watch than futbol, but the game is still a test of speed, strength and skill. It's only in the US that it's that girls have colonized it.

Blogger Doom March 20, 2015 1:35 AM  

Salt,

212, I think. Save at altitude, then it is higher. Where I live it is higher, though not sure how much. Why do I need help if I am the one who can pull eggs out of boiling water? I guess that means that you can't? Bleh... Just checking. Or perhaps you really don't believe. Believe, or don't. I'll show you on any given day. For a dollar.

Blogger MATT March 20, 2015 1:38 AM  

Ok Double E lets say she gets the jump on the guy and takes his legs out from under him. What next?

And how did a 100 lb..person..defeat you? And in what?

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 2:06 AM  

Grappling. Submission wrestling / brazilian jiu jitsu.

The power even moderate grappling skills can give you over a completely untrained person has to be experienced to believe. And if they are even close to you in strength you can toy with them like they are a child. After training for a while you can feel god-like against somebody who has never trained before, even if they are WAY bigger. (I have personally choked out people that weighed around 100lbs more than me.

When it comes to striking, any style, even the most untrained newbie has a general idea of what their opponent is trying to do, and what they are trying to do. In grappling, an untrained person has no idea what you are trying to do, or how to stop it, and certain instinctual actions actually make their position worse and makes it easier to defeat them.

Now, even a few months of training can let somebody know what you are trying to do, and that is where their strength advantage can come into play. So grappling can simultaneously make weight advantages seem meaningless, or magnify them. The difference is whether they know what they are doing.

Anybody who thinks rousey could defeat any even mediocre male fighter at any weight class is irredeemably stupid. But at the same time, anybody who thinks there is no way she could possibly beat some random 180lb dude who doesn't train or work out has never fought somebody elite who is way smaller than you.

I've fought guys who i could have strict-pressed over head for reps (and i'm only 165 lbs) who straight up embarrassed me while holding a conversation with somebody else and not breaking a sweat.

Blogger Doom March 20, 2015 3:01 AM  

Double E,

You mean wrestling? In some cases, yes. When my brother became a wrestler, he became able to force a draw. But only as a male. I had him in height, but was skinny so we were closer in weight. I believe the competition might go to a wrestler, in male to male, but not for a female. It took everything my brother had, and he took some harsh hits getting into position. Couldn't keep a double nelson on me either, so learned other ways. A female wouldn't have had a chance. I'm calling bunk.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:20 AM  

Calling bunk on what? That any woman could defeat any man, ever?

you're right that "a" female wouldn't have a chance. Just like any random 180 pound dude couldn't have won UFC 1 either. Of course I'm not talking about any random chick, gimme a break.

But are you literally implying that no woman can ever defeat a man? That a woman who has spent 20 years training in various martial arts, who is probably 6 or more standard deviations above the mean in terms of fighting ability for women would have no chance against an average totally untrained man? That's just ignorant.

Because you could draw with your brother after a he had semester of wrestling is just not the same thing as somebody who has years of elite grappling experience.

I have personally seen women beat men, and I have seen plenty of guys beat other guys who had a much larger strength and size difference over them than the average man would have over Rousey.

I recently saw an article that stated the average untrained man has a 1RM bench of only 135, squat of 125, and deadlift of 155. You are telling me it is totally impossible that a woman who's entire life revolves around fighting would have no chance against such a schlub? Now I'm the one who has to call bunk.

Blogger Mint March 20, 2015 3:48 AM  

I don't think this fact, as easily observed as it is, makes a different to SJWs.

An American man who questioning why I am not feminist, once asked why I did not believe in equality. He played tennis, so I said, if women are men's equal why there are separate tours (ATP and WTA) and different match for each gender? Why can't Nadal go against Ana Ivanovic for Australian Open for instance.

I don't think it changed his mind. Physical inequality, Intelligent inequality, whatever evidence. When I admitted that that I am not smarter than him or most men, he said probably that's not because of me being a female. The cognitive dissonance even most pronounce when I show him study about Race and IQ. He said maybe it's true but probably best to not mention it. Is there any value to mention that Race X is smarter than Race Y?

Well, he is an atheist. So..

Anonymous bigger, stronger, faster March 20, 2015 4:21 AM  

Sadly the article is gone for now, but here are some excerpts,

My interviews with female professionals and others in the world of women’s sports confirmed the importance of boys’ physical development at that age. Aaron Heifitz, the publicist for the U.S. national women’s soccer team, described how the women’s squad performs against the best youth club players in Southern California: “The boys’ 13s we can handle pretty consistently, but when the boys start really developing at 14, and especially 15, that’s when you start to see real separation and they pass even the best women’s players. They’re just bigger, stronger, and faster.”

And 14-15 year old boys' records are better than women's,

Nor is the 100 meters an aberration. In sport after sport, evidence shows that the top female professional athletes in the world are on par with the best American 14- and 15-year-old boys. Nearly every female Olympic record in speed, strength, and endurance events falls between the records set by the best American 14- and 15-year-old boys.

and quite a few of the latter have been on steroids and are now considered unbreakables.

As distance runner Joan Nesbit Mabe puts it, “a man can only become a faster man. A woman can become a man and get faster. They have a double boost. A woman who becomes more male, she’s basically not a woman.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2011/08/unbreakable.html

Also regarding Rousey and the likes,

http://endofwomen.blogspot.com/2015/03/steroids-are-new-skinny.html

Anonymous bigger, stronger, faster March 20, 2015 4:38 AM  

Strange, it said that 'your comment was published' but it doesn't show up on a refresh.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 5:36 AM  

That is Vox's claim, yes, that the average untrained man would beat Rousey. Me, I don't have a position. But indeed the discussion is about untrained.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 5:56 AM  

Is there any value to mention that Race X is smarter than Race Y?

As an opening gambit to regularly pound on the fact that you don't run away from any truth because of feelbad but he does it as a policy. You don't want a philosophy that mandates conceit.

Blogger Vox March 20, 2015 9:02 AM  

But are you literally implying that no woman can ever defeat a man? That a woman who has spent 20 years training in various martial arts, who is probably 6 or more standard deviations above the mean in terms of fighting ability for women would have no chance against an average totally untrained man? That's just ignorant.

No, it's not ignorant. I totally concur. Rousey would be just about killed by the average man. If she thought she could beat one, she'd be up for it. But she isn't, even though it would be worth millions to her.

Why doesn't she do it when she's shooting her mouth off about beating trained fighters. Hell, they could make a whole TV series about it. Each week, a new guy off the street gets in the ring with Ronda and gets his ass kicked.

Blogger JDC March 20, 2015 9:27 AM  

I'd very interested to see how she did against an average guy, and suspect she would get trounced (although Joe Rogan disagrees). I wrestled in high school and lift weights (although I am an ancient 45), so I believe I'd perform just fine. My problem would be that she is trained in submissions. I got into the ring with a buddy who is a trained amateur MMA fighter. I took him down immediately, and he promptly choked me out. For 10 minutes I couldn't even remember what happened or where I was. I think her only chance would be executing a quick submission - which she is very good at (arm bars seem to be her preferred method).

Vox, you just came up with a brilliant idea for a new show...although they did something similar to this in Boogie Nights.

Blogger CM March 20, 2015 9:40 AM  

So, maybe childbirth isn't so painful after all...

Childbirth has other things going on that dull the pain receptors and alter our perception of reality.

Last delivery, i remember the pain in my rear from laying in bed for too long more than the contractions.

Oxytocin is a miracle hormone.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 10:01 AM  

"But are you literally implying that no woman can ever defeat a man? That a woman who has spent 20 years training in various martial arts, who is probably 6 or more standard deviations above the mean in terms of fighting ability for women would have no chance against an average totally untrained man? That's just ignorant. "

Have you ever punched a woman? or had a woman try to punch you?

I'm 40. I'm a shadow of my former self.. and there is not even the slightest hint of a doubt that I beat Rousey to death if I chose to.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 10:04 AM  

Rousey.. like every other female fighter on the planet... is slow as all hell.

Blogger JDC March 20, 2015 10:24 AM  

I think you are discounting how weak some men actually are. If memory serves, I recall the reports of at least one young woman who can lift more than her father.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 10:25 AM  

The original setup presented by Hass specifies "average" man for the match.

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 10:50 AM  

The last UFC had another female undercard. The winner was an undefeated female boxing and kickboxing world champ (her opponent was a "scrappy" rug muncher). They were ranked #6 and #10 or something. It was painful to watch. That's the quality of competition Rousey routinely faces and beats. Sloooow punches, telegraphed kicks, inability to read and adjust to the other opponent's move. She is the best fighter in a really, really bad field.

My ex tried to physically take something from my oldest son, (13 at the time). He just played the resistance game until she grew tired. He later said it was sheer fear of what would happen if he hurt her that kept him from pushing his 120 lbs mom to the ground and pinning her. He was taller, heavier, stronger, faster, and more naturally aggressive. I worry she won't learn her lesson and she will do something stupid, forcing a reaction from him.

It's not hyperbole. It's been recounted here time and again. A 13-14 year old boys is the match for an in-shape woman (my ex does work out a lot). Put him through puberty, build average muscle for ten years, and do the "average" workout most guys do and run scenarios through your head.

She looks really tough because her competition is on par with 14 year old boys.

Anonymous Donn March 20, 2015 11:02 AM  

We had a local woman martial artist claim she held off a man for half an hour while he attacked her. I called bullshit thirty years ago. She was 120#s tops and taught the worst bullshido I have ever seen.

People cannot understand the fact that the occasional female victories are fluke one-off events. Sure, women have beaten men, mostly through sheer luck, bad conditioning/condition of the guy, (drunk, high, already beaten up, sleeping, old age etc). Or because the guy stands and lets the woman hit him.

And to top this off this is an activity that involves betting and fixed fights. Every pro fight since John L. Sullivan has had the fix in. If there were a Rousy/'Dude' fight the guy would lose because the money would be huge.

Authors like SM Stirling make their bread and butter writing about Xena Lesbian Princess. He's not going to say. 'No, sorry there's no way in hell a woman could hold her own in actual physical combat, much less make it a profession' Some people write about lawyers some about lesbian Amazons.

I've heard and seen women who have beaten men but it's so rare that I've seen more 'unicorns' displayed by carnivals and circuses.

Blogger Vox March 20, 2015 11:10 AM  

The average American man in his thirties is 5'9" and 179 pounds. Rousey is 5'6" and 135 pounds. She'd be giving up three inches and 44 pounds. And she'd be slower.

No way.

Anonymous meh March 20, 2015 11:11 AM  

" As Ann Coulter says, it id downright unAmerican."

I like Coulter sometimes, she sometimes goes off the reservation in anti-neo-con directions, moreso than most "conservative" pundits, but on this topic she is a total loon. She said no American who watches soccer has an American born great-grandparent, which is just nonsense. I have native born American great-grandparents, and I know lots of other American soccer fans who do as well. The idea that the only people in America watching soccer are recent immigrants is laughable. The first college football game was a soccer game (modified Football Association rules), between Princeton and Rutgers in 1869 and there have been professional soccer clubs/leagues in this country since the 1880s/1890s. By the 1920s and 30s exhibition matches against visiting European teams were drawing crowds in the 30-50,000 range. Those soccer fans back in the 1920s have had great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren in America by now. Millions of them. And that isn't counting the many more recent converts to soccer fandom whose ancestors have been here just as long as Coulter's have. On this topic, Anne Coulter is a fool.

As to differences between male and female soccer players, only someone blinded by ignorance or dislike of soccer would not realize that the same sexual differences at play in, say, basketball apply equally in soccer. And it isn't just a difference in skill vs. physical strength and speed. Women's soccer, most Americans don't realize, is a fairly recent sport in terms of female participation. It used to be a male-only sport. Which is why the US Women's national team used to beat up on other countries women teams by extremely lopsided scores, even - especially - from countries where soccer was the number one sport. And these same USWNT teams would lose, badly, to junior high boys teams who weren't nearly as skilled or experienced as they were, but were much stronger and faster. The best female soccer team in the world literally could not beat any randomly picked team of boys you could select anywhere.

Name your sport, with few exceptions this holds true, the women's game is slower and less physical. There is a reason men and women don't compete together; there are exceptions, for instance equestrianism where the object is to control the horse and the physical size, speed and strength of the rider matter much less than skill in controlling the horse.

Consider field hockey; this is another sport which most Americans don't realize was mostly only a man's sport until relatively recently. It is simply an accident of history that field hockey was introduced to the USA as a women's sport: it wasn't like that everywhere else. Watch Olympic field hockey: same rules for both men and women, but like basketball and soccer, men and women don't compete against each other as it is no contest. Watch a women's field hockey match. Then watch a men's field hockey. The men whack the ball much further than the women, they are faster, everything is quicker. Just like soccer and basketball.

Also always watch the Australia vs Netherlands women's field hockey matches. I have never seen so many tall and shapely blondes, on both teams, in my life. Wow.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 11:22 AM  

"The average American man in his thirties is 5'9" and 179 pounds. Rousey is 5'6" and 135 pounds. She'd be giving up three inches and 44 pounds. And she'd be slower.

No way."

And unlike Rousey... we've been fighting since we were 6 years old. Sure she's trained a lot... but what people do in the octagon and what people do on the street are very very different things.

Rousey is going to, for example expect you to protect your back. So what happens to her when she makes an aggressive move based on that prediction.. and you give her your back because you know there is nothing she can do with it? Right. She leaves her self open to all kinds of pain and injury.

She's slower.. smaller.. and weaker.

All the training and knowledge in the world won't help her against even an average man. Much less an aggressive man that likes to fight.

She'd wake up chained to a spike in his yard... wondering if he was gonna fuck her now or later.

Blogger Joshua Dyal March 20, 2015 11:39 AM  

I like Coulter sometimes, she sometimes goes off the reservation in anti-neo-con directions, moreso than most "conservative" pundits, but on this topic she is a total loon.

Nah, it's just hyperbole, not lunacy.

That said, I think she's directionally correct about the reasons why SJWs are so anxious for Americans to like soccer, and push it on us so hard when for the most part, America still remains ambivalent about the sport.

OpenID cailcorishev March 20, 2015 11:59 AM  

Hell, they could make a whole TV series about it. Each week, a new guy off the street gets in the ring with Ronda and gets his ass kicked.

Yeah, can you imagine what a hit that would be? Women would love it. They could do sort of a feminist Running Man thing, where they bring in "deadbeat dads" and let her destroy them. It couldn't miss -- unless we're right and some fat 40-year-old accountant would actually knock her out or pin her.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 12:09 PM  

"What people do in the octagon and what people do on the street are very very different things."

Ah yes, the old "MMA is a sport, not a real fight" trope. A favorite of keyboard warriors, mcdojo adherents and others who like to make dubious Internet claims about their own fighting prowess.

But maybe Nate is legit. What is your course of action, Nate, after Rousey takes your back, a position you bizarrely claim, she can't do anything with?

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 12:15 PM  

"unless we're right and some fat 40-year-old accountant would actually knock her out or pin her."

Pin her? A lot of you guys are really showing your ass in this thread. Ever seen an MMA fight decided by pin?

Blogger denizenofgoo March 20, 2015 12:16 PM  

"It is simply an accident of history that field hockey was introduced to the USA as a women's sport"

You can thank gaia for Title IX. The glorious start of herstory of women's sports equality took some cunning though,

She said: "I don't want you to lobby. Because if you lobby, people will ask questions about this bill, and they will find out what it would really do." ... And she was absolutely right. It was quite a big break that no one was watching.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/06/how-title-ix-sneakily-revolutionized-womens-sports/258708/

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 12:27 PM  

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/rogan-defends-his-comments-about-rousey-2962281

I implore you guys to make an account there and to debate these guys.

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 12:31 PM  

Pin her? A lot of you guys are really showing your ass in this thread. Ever seen an MMA fight decided by pin?

No one is saying that's how fights are concluded.

However, once, pinned, the elbows would rain down.

How long would she last when a grown man has her pinned and in position to receive punch after punch and elbow after elbow?

She is fighting opponents with the strength/quickness of 13 year old boys and not even particularly big ones, like my son.

Few have even commented on what effect testosterone has in fighting, which should stop the conversation cold.

Anonymous HalibetLector March 20, 2015 12:32 PM  

unless we're right and some fat 40-year-old accountant would actually knock her out or pin her.

Then they could air it on Spike. It would be a hit show in no time. I'd watch it.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 12:32 PM  

OK guys, now you're being full of it.

Nate, you would be drooling on the floor, unconscious if she gets your back. You can't out muscle a rear naked choke unless you're 200 lbs of muscle.

Moreover, Rousey isn't actually 135 lbs. She is probably around 150 lbs, but cuts weight. hell, she might be 160 lbs too, Im not sure.

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 12:33 PM  

I implore you guys to make an account there and to debate these guys.

Why? Rogan's a part of the promotion machine. He's not interested in facts.

Her own mother, also accomplished in female martial arts competition, has called for people to stop this nonsense before her daughter does something stupid and gets very, very hurt.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 12:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 12:41 PM  

"How long would she last when a grown man has her pinned?"

Well, that depends ENTIRELY on whether she's mounted or has her guard. Both situations might involve her with her back on the mat, but there is an ocean of difference between the two positions from a strategic/leverage standpoint. If you don't already know why this is, then you don't have any idea what you are talking about. I would guess she has at least 20 different armbar setups from closed guard.

Then there's the little problem of getting her "pinned" (again, depending on what you mean by that). If you're dumb enough to, for instance, give up your back on purpose as Nate suggests, that is unlikely to happen, regardless of size/strength difference.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 12:44 PM  

"You can't out muscle a rear naked choke unless you're 200 lbs of muscle."

Thank you Tommy. Not even then, really. Even a total beast would have to know an effective defense to avoid an RNC after a back take.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 12:49 PM  

"No, it's not ignorant. I totally concur. Rousey would be just about killed by the average man."

By the average man who has had no combat training whatsoever?

It seems to be accepted around here that pro level women athletes are on par with high school level male athletes. Well the average totally untrained man is way way below the level of a high school athlete. I think you've forgotten just how pathetic the totally untrained man really is. I'm taking about the John Scalzis of the world here, guys who can't out-bench their 12 year old daughters, and would gas-out unwrapping their big macs. Rousey would certainly be stronger than him. Would he maybe be faster? probably but he would also be giving up decades of experience, and probably shockingly actually have a strength DIS-advantage.

So the question is, you think 50 (soft) lbs and a speed advantage is enough to overcome that kind of skill deficit? I have seen proof that it is not.

YOu heard it here first, john scalzi would lose to ronda rousey.


"Why doesn't she do it when she's shooting her mouth off about beating trained fighters. Hell, they could make a whole TV series about it. Each week, a new guy off the street gets in the ring with Ronda and gets his ass kicked."

If you have watched even 10 minutes of interviews with her, you have to know she is totally insane. I guarantee if it were up to her she would be stupid enough to do it. The UFC would never allow it though, they have nothing to gain by her barely beating or losing to some Scalzi-like specimen.

I have personally seen women beat men (its a damn rarity but it is possible) and they weren't even totally untrained. I have also seen men defeat other men who had a much larger size and strength advantage over them than the average man does over rousey.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 12:51 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ-CmaRKVY0

Woman fighter fighting a man in a no holds barred fight.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 12:55 PM  

That woman was beaten by Rousey within 15 seconds btw.

"Her own mother, also accomplished in female martial arts competition, has called for people to stop this nonsense before her daughter does something stupid and gets very, very hurt."

Yeah, against trained athletes in the bantamweight division. MMA rookies are less dangerous.

Also, Rogan doesn't actually post there.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 12:57 PM  

"How long would she last when a grown man has her pinned and in position to receive punch after punch and elbow after elbow?"

Have you ever participated in BJJ or submission wrestling before?

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 1:02 PM  

Woman fighter fighting a man in a no holds barred fight.

You're effin joking, right?

the fight was clearly staged. He didn't fight her. He resisted her. How many "punches" did he throw? I counted three and, given how he played the rest of the fight, I'd wager they were pulled punches.

C'mon, man. Look at the speed and effectiveness of her punches. An average guy is not getting hurt from that shit.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 1:03 PM  

He was holding back on his feet, but he seemed to be genuinely struggling when on his back.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 1:05 PM  

C'mon, man. Look at the speed and effectiveness of her punches.

Yeah, all the time I was wondering if she is actually trying to hit him, or if it is for demonstration purposes, like "this could have been a hit, so it counts for one point" or something.

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 1:08 PM  

He was holding back on his feet, but he seemed to be genuinely struggling when on his back.

Look at the speed of her punches and how he casually pulls away from them. Look at his complete lack of intensity in his eyes/face.

When on the ground, he does nothing to break free. It's not "lack of ground game." It's letting her practice on him until he gives up the arm bar.

Look at when he's on top. Who just stays on top and throws a punch once every ten-fifteen seconds if they're taking the fight seriously or felt they were seriously over-matched when pinned earlier?

That fight looks staged, likely to give her ranking and get the gym noticed.

Blogger luagha March 20, 2015 1:09 PM  

Probably a good time to look up Andy Kaufman and Jerry "the King' Lawler's wrestle-a-woman series.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 1:21 PM  

Owen, you and Nate have direct questions pending. Here's one more:

"Who just stays on top and throws a punch once every ten-fifteen seconds ..."

When he was on top, what submission was he being threatened with?

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 1:24 PM  

lordabacus,
I'll let you know when you can tell me what to do or say.

Anyone looking to legitimize that video is either deeply delusional or just having fun with the crowd.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 1:26 PM  

Yeah, I haven't watched many of these, but that video was outright comedic

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 1:29 PM  

"I'll let you know when you can tell me what to do or say."

I have attempted neither. I merely pointed out that you have not answered a direct question from Double E, and now you have dodged one from me as well. I would not presume to tell you what to do with said information.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 1:44 PM  

With crickets from Owen and Nate, I'm tempted to redirect this question to Markku: When he was on top, what submission was he being threatened with?

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 1:46 PM  

I don't understand the question. Is "he" supposed to be "she"? And I know literally nothing about the sport. Never even heard the rules. I simply take Tommy at his word that this is supposed to be a no-holds-barred fight, and as such, it looks comedic.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 1:47 PM  

I mean, when you have her down, you OBVIOUSLY hit her until she loses consciousness, and then you figure out something to do with her.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 1:53 PM  

Come on guys, you don't know the triangle choke? :D

Tbf, I'm starting to believe that this is staged too. Look how easily he sweeps her from mount. Brute force, doesn't look very technical.

However, he looked genuinely troubled when she had side control, but that's because side control is hard as hell to get out of.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 1:55 PM  

Markku, I appreciate your responding in a forthright manner.

No, I meant "he." 2:00-2:45 in the video. Owen was complaining about that the dude didn't punch enough in that situation. That position is pretty common in BJJ/submission grappling, and anyone familiar with it and the threat it poses for the person on top would understand why punching from it is risky and ineffective.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 1:57 PM  

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/rogan-defends-his-comments-about-rousey-2962281/showpost.php?p=104402135&postcount=220

"Has any woman fucked you?

And if so, how much did she charge you?



Most people accused of white knighting simply are not insanely insecure about their masculinity. You should try it sometime."

Gamma?

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 1:59 PM  

lordabacus,
The point is that anyone, skilled or unskilled, watching that fight knows it's a farce. It was either a training session for her, a "hype video" to get her bigger payouts/ranking, or a staged fight for entertainment purposes.

Do you seriously think a trained male fighter, with a clear 40 lbs muscle advantage, entered a fight with the strategy of "walk around, let her hit me, let her get on top to try out her ground game, give her time on the bottom to work on more technique, then quickly give up the arm bar?"

You want to dissect it? Have at it.

It's a training video, man.

Anonymous G.Veil March 20, 2015 2:00 PM  

As far as sports goes the idea a woman could compete with a guy is absurd. In high school I competed in football, basketball, wrestling, track and field, and soccer. Aside from football and soccer I was a pretty average male player, just another guy if you will and there wasn't a varsity female player who could have laid spit on me. I even scrimmaged against some of them and just abused them at will it wasn't even fair. I could post up their center like I was Shaq in his prime, and if not for the QB having pity on her I would have caught more than 21 passes for 291 yrds and 4 TDs (unofficial count on the yards). Soccer was even worse because if you charged toward them when they had the ball they'd panic and do something stupid which led to a lot of defensive mistakes on their part and easy scores by us. They're is nothing women can do about it, we're bigger, faster, stronger, and we love the competition. The thing I remember about that football scrimmage is when I was defending her she was so damn nervous and scared. I let her catch a pass and when she tried to run past me I just laid her out and the sheer horror of even my own teammates that I'd do that. But the tactic worked cause she was terrified of catching passes the rest of the day and dropped several wide open one's cause I'd just started playing safety and patrolling the middle of the field. A man would've been angry that I'd laid him out when he was already going out of bounds, he would've wanted the ball, he would've run harder and faster and demanded the ball. She looked like a deer in headlights and shrunk from the fight because that's what women are naturally inclined to do. Is that all women? No, but it's the overwhelming majority of them.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:01 PM  

It may be staged, but my purpose with the triangle quiz (thanks for giving the game away, Tommy) was merely to figure out if my interlocutors knew enough about what they were seeing to evaluate it competently. I think I have my answer. If you can' identify a triangle choke, probably not a good idea to make claims about who can beat/submit whom in a fight.

And Markku, for research purposes, try this: find your nearest BJJ gym. Ask if they have a female purple belt or higher and if she would be willing to put you in a triangle and let you try to punch your way out. See who loses consciousness first.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:03 PM  

Do you think it likely that they would allow me to punch at full strength? Honest question, I have no idea.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:04 PM  

But what I mean is, with the intent to hospitalize or kill, as would be my instinct.

Blogger Owen March 20, 2015 2:12 PM  

I think I have my answer. If you can' identify a triangle choke, probably not a good idea to make claims about who can beat/submit whom in a fight.

Yes, because only people who can recognize that have ever been in fights.

I'll raise you one.

Anyone who think a clearly slower, weaker opponent threatens a trained male fighter with a clear physical advantage shouldn't be trusted on who would win fights.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:14 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:15 PM  

I mean, I have never done contact sports, so I don't know how to hit any other way. Sister has, and it is my understanding that they do a lot of work to first remove that instinct. So, I would have literally no idea what would happen. I mean, as far as I can tell, it could be "ok, now I have this dead woman on the floor, now what?"

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:15 PM  

Markku: I honestly don't know. BJJ gyms are not quite as geared toward challenge match stuff like as they used to be. I'm pretty sure a male fighter, even one whom you outweigh by a lot, would be cool with it. If someone knows how to put a triangle on correctly, you have about 4-5 seconds to get off your punches, which will be to the midsection because you won't be able to reach their face. So if you can kill/hospitalize someone with one or two punches to the hips in a position where you have no leverage, you may be the greatest striker who has ever lived.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:17 PM  

I'm pretty sure a male fighter, even one whom you outweigh by a lot, would be cool with it

Ah, I see. I have no doubt about THAT. I assumed we were talking about female.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:19 PM  

I also assumed it would be the starting position seen in the video, not a hold that already happened.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:23 PM  

"Because only people who can recognize that have ever been in fights."

Again, you attribute to me statement/claims I have not made. I never claimed you have never been in a fight. You may be able to kick my ass, for all I know. But when you start making predictions about what's gonna happen when Rousey fights random dudes, I think it reasonable to expect you to know something about what techniques she may use, since (1) it is there that she will have her advantage and (2) a lot of BJJ techniques are proven to effectively negate significant size/strength advantages

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 2:32 PM  

Markku, you lose consciousness quickly. Like 5 seconds. And most of your power comes from leverage. You can only use your arms when punching from there. A 5'2'' 120 lbs woman would survive your arm punches for 5 seconds unless you are Semmy Schilt.

Most hard punches come from weight shifts. You can't shift your weight much from there.

I think we should put it this way: many men could crush Rousey after a couple of months of training. But without any previous experience...you think Ender and the others would've crushed the women if this was the first time they saw a ball?

Well, then again, only few men have never fought in their lives up to that point.

Btw:

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/rogan-defends-his-comments-about-rousey-2962281/showpost.php?p=104420023&postcount=278

"Been thinking about it a lot &, although it would be close, I think Rousey could definitely beat a Polar Bear.

I know a Polar Bear has a size & strength advantage but it doesnt know grappling. If u dont know BJJ it literally feels like you're drowning. Her technique would just be too much"

Mah nigga.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 2:34 PM  

Should've said Wolf or Leopard.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:36 PM  

The big problem is that I have literally zero idea about how fragile or resilient women are, because I've never hit them. I did recently pick up my sister and did squats holding her, because I didn't have my weights (I was visiting parents) so that gives me some idea about controlling their body weight (really damned easy). And I would say I'm probably weaker than average.

Now, I don't know, maybe they know some tricks to prevent me from simply picking her up, and then dropping my body weight on her on the canvas. I don't have a dog in this fight, as I said right from the start. I don't know.

But I do know that there is a chance that it might go very badly.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:38 PM  

you think Ender and the others would've crushed the women if this was the first time they saw a ball?

No, but see, that's just the difference between other sports and this. Other sports are really restrictive. You can't just go "ok, I'll just hit the defender unconscious and then get the ball". There are rules to prevent such things. But it is my understanding about MMA that you CAN do pretty much what you would do in a street fight.

Blogger SirHamster March 20, 2015 2:43 PM  

Do you seriously think a trained male fighter, with a clear 40 lbs muscle advantage, entered a fight with the strategy of "walk around, let her hit me, let her get on top to try out her ground game, give her time on the bottom to work on more technique, then quickly give up the arm bar?"

Not a trained fighter, but did not get the sense of no holds barred from the man.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:43 PM  

Other sports are like "ok, now do this weird system of things, completely alien to your previous instincts". But everyone has some instincts about how to fight. They don't start from level zero. Probably nowhere NEAR level zero.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:46 PM  

"then dropping my body weight on her on the canvas"

Probably your best bet, which is why slamming is not allowed in strictly BJJ competition, but of course you were previously claiming that you could punch your way out of this. Slamming your way out is another kettle of fish.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:47 PM  

"Probably nowhere NEAR level zero."

Actually, most people are a lot closer to zero than they think.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-average-male-4000-less-effective-in-fights,36321/

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 2:47 PM  

"But maybe Nate is legit. What is your course of action, Nate, after Rousey takes your back, a position you bizarrely claim, she can't do anything with?"

My position is she would never get my back.

The point is she trains to fight in the octagon where people have tendencies. She looks for those tendencies and anticipates them. Street fights don't work that way.

My position is... if it did go to ground with her on top... rather than going full guard.. the man would flip and give her his back... which would surprise her... and because she's surprised... and slow.. and weak... by the time she could react and apply that choke... she'd be thrown off and summarily beaten to a pulp. I've seen BJJ guys and wrestlers both have the same things happen to them... but in those cases they were guys and they recovered fairly quickly and didn't make the same mistake again.

as for the read naked...

I've seen men simply rip smaller men off them in a rear naked choke. I've seen men whose damn neck were so big someone her size simply could not apply the choke in the first place.

I've been in several rear naked chokes. And yes... the best way to beat them is to not get in them... but when there are no rules... you'd be surprised how many options you have for breaking it. Ripping off finger nails for example is just one of several options.

You're grossly over stating the potency of the hold. leverage matters... but strength can over come leverage at some point. even at 150... which I doubt very seriously she weighs... most men can throw her around without a problem. Again... my hands are far far stronger than hers... I'm just gonna start breaking her fingers until she realizes its a good idea to let go.

One more story... I know of a farm boy at a bar that has 2 big bouncers on him. He was face down on the ground. One bouncer had him in a kimura... the other was just playing lead blanket to help hold him down.

The dude just got more and more pissed off until he did what amounts to a one armed push up and threw both of them off. A third bouncer came in after that and they were finally able to keep him down.

That doesn't mean the kimura isn't effective. it means at some point... strength beats leverage.

Blogger Tommy Hass March 20, 2015 2:48 PM  

No really, you can't. Can't stomp, can't kick to the head if on the groung, biting, headbutts, lots of other things.

It needs to be said that sport fighters are ar less formidable on the street, than in the cage. Not always enough to make a difference, but still...

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:49 PM  

Probably your best bet, which is why slamming is not allowed in strictly BJJ competition, but of course you were previously claiming that you could punch your way out of this

I didn't claim I could. I don't know if I could. Which is exactly why I asked if you thought if they'd let me test that, with a woman, at the level you mentioned. I merely pointed out that at no point, when the man had the upper hand, was he even trying to at least stun her with punches. It looked very much like he was specifically told that he cannot punch. At least not the head.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 2:52 PM  

Actually, most people are a lot closer to zero than they think.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-average-male-4000-less-effective-in-fights,36321/


Is this a joke, or are you not aware of what TheOnion is?

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 2:53 PM  

"Markku, you lose consciousness quickly. Like 5 seconds."

You're making a lot of assumptions Tommy.

1) perfectly locked choke. Which is highly unlikly.

2) you're forgetting the strength advantage and a much stronger, bigger neck than she's used to dealing with.

3) You're forgetting that you're used to seeing men choke men.. not girls choke men.

4) You're forgetting that a man can simply grab her weak little arms and rip them off of him.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 2:56 PM  

"No really, you can't. Can't stomp, can't kick to the head if on the groung, biting, headbutts, lots of other things."

which is another reason the hold isn't that effective in a street situation. She's never had to worry about someone stomping the inside of her knee... or smashing her feet... or simply breaking her fingers. Not to mention... as the Finn said... simply throwing yourself onto your back... smashing her into the floor.

This isn't even remotely a problem folks.

Blogger lordabacus March 20, 2015 2:59 PM  

Good Lord, of course I know what The Onion is. I happen to find that bit of satire relevant to our conversation. Yeesh.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:00 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBL7YUTRlpk

This was in competition, so it's unlikely that the guy wasn't 'really' trying. He may not be good, but he is far from totally untrained.

Anybody want to tell me that a woman who is 20X the fighter that girl is would not have a chance against a john scalzi- esque totally untrained man just because you add striking to the mix?

Most untrained guys can not grapple or even strike for 2 minutes without being totally gassed.

Add to that the average untrained man would likely actually be WEAKER than Rousey, (http://www.livestrong.com/article/380767-how-much-weight-can-the-average-man-lift/) and would have NO idea what she was trying to do or how to stop it.

I'm not even saying she WOULD win, just that she certainly could. ANybody saying she would have no chance, what are you basing that on? The 40 lb weight advantage the average guy would have? the speed advantage for the first 2 minutes before they are totally gassed?

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 3:01 PM  

Ah, well, I didn't mean to get out of the hold. What I think I would try first would be to punch over my shoulder at full strenght, while simultaneously bringing my other hand against my elbow to give it even more speed and force. At the same time, I would push my body quickly backwards, which would bring her head temporarily closer. I think a direct hit to the face, assisted by the other hand, would be enough to break the hold.

I meant, and actual fight with Rousey or someone similar. What I think I would try would be to just walk up to her, pick her up, then drop her and my body on the canvas. I don't know how that would play out, but that would me my instinctive response.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:02 PM  

Nate you said:

"You're making a lot of assumptions Tommy.

1) perfectly locked choke. Which is highly unlikly.

2) you're forgetting the strength advantage and a much stronger, bigger neck than she's used to dealing with.

3) You're forgetting that you're used to seeing men choke men.. not girls choke men.

4) You're forgetting that a man can simply grab her weak little arms and rip them off of him."

What evidence do you have that the totally untrained average man meets points 2-4?

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:11 PM  

"Ah, well, I didn't mean to get out of the hold. What I think I would try first would be to punch over my shoulder at full strenght, while simultaneously bringing my other hand against my elbow to give it even more speed and force. At the same time, I would push my body quickly backwards, which would bring her head temporarily closer. I think a direct hit to the face, assisted by the other hand, would be enough to break the hold.

I meant, and actual fight with Rousey or someone similar. What I think I would try would be to just walk up to her, pick her up, then drop her and my body on the canvas. I don't know how that would play out, but that would me my instinctive response."

Step 1; Train submission grappling or jiu jitsu, or MMA for 6 months

Step 2: laugh at what you just wrote

Step 3. ???

Step 4: Profit

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 3:13 PM  

Again, are they going to let me train against women, where the weight differential is what it would be against Rousey? Of course these tactics don't work against a man, unless maybe if he is really tiny.

Anonymous kfg March 20, 2015 3:13 PM  

Luke Harper & Gender Equality

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:15 PM  

"Again, are they going to let me train against women, where the weight differential is what it would be against Rousey? Of course these tactics don't work against a man, unless maybe if he is really tiny."

If there are women in the gym yes. They won't work against tiny guys who are skilled either, that's my point.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 3:15 PM  

"Anybody want to tell me that a woman who is 20X the fighter that girl is would not have a chance against a john scalzi- esque totally untrained man just because you add striking to the mix?"

Yes. You seem to see average untrained man and think "John Scalzi". Maybe where you live. 'round these parts the average untrained man is about 5'9 and 190 and works for a living... and while he's by definition untrained... he's fought a lot.

Consider myself. I'm 5'9... 185... fairly close to average. I bench 5 reps at 220 and leg press 800. If you looked at me... you would probably call me average.

John Scalzi isn't average. John Scalzi is pathetic. Most men do some kind of physical activity.. running.. biking.. God help her... lifting.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:18 PM  

Seriously, weren't the "why doesn't the guy that outweighs him by 100 lbs just pick him up and slam him?" questions answered with UFC 1?

And those were other trained, PRO fighters. And I'm talking about way less of a weight advantage, maybe no strength advantage, and a way WAY bigger gap in skills.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 3:21 PM  

"Step 1; Train submission grappling or jiu jitsu, or MMA for 6 months

Step 2: laugh at what you just wrote

Step 3. ???

Step 4: Profit"

its funny... I've got a couple friends that fight low level MMA... regional events... one in 15 -1 with 7 subs and 5 knock outs.

I've never trained a minute. I roll with them periodically just to fool around. And yes... at least once I have done exactly what Marrku described. He rushed me... I grabbed him picked him up and dropped him on his head and went full lead blanket.

His response was to bitch that I cheated because you can't slam.

Pussy.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:22 PM  



"Consider myself. I'm 5'9... 185... fairly close to average. I bench 5 reps at 220 and leg press 800. If you looked at me... you would probably call me average. "

Wrong, the average man doesn't bench at all. Regardless of what the people "round your parts" may do.

You may be fairly close to average size and weight, but the average man has not touched a barbell in years, maybe ever.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 20, 2015 3:22 PM  

Markku: "But it is my understanding about MMA that you CAN do pretty much what you would do in a street fight."

MMA: The Rules, in a fairly amusing seventeen minutes.

A naive, untrained fighter would be in considerable danger of doing something illegal, such as using an illegal vertical elbow in a situation where they had to use a cage-legal not-quite-vertical elbow, or incorrectly kicking a downed opponent instead of correctly kicking a downed opponent, or head-butting an opponent in the gut, or saying a dirty word to an opponent while trash-talking them.

Or, if determined to avoid everything that might be illegal, they could hesitate themselves into paralysis. ("What is a grounded opponent; is it three points of contact? What can I do now; can I grab that convenient hank of hair? Can I grab that extended hand; what is the correct number of fingers that I have to grab? Can I just grab the glove?")

For fairness, one should assume that both fighters get the usual talks on the rules, and a couple of months to train in fighting only with techniques that don't break them.

Lacking that, an experienced female fighter would have a good chance to beat a naive male fighter -- on disqualification.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:23 PM  

"His response was to bitch that I cheated because you can't slam."

What MMA organization doesn't allow slams? I call BS on that one

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 3:23 PM  

"Seriously, weren't the "why doesn't the guy that outweighs him by 100 lbs just pick him up and slam him?" questions answered with UFC 1?"

Hey man... Rampage is on the phone. He wants to talk to you. He says you should watch more MMA.

Slams happen a lot.

They don't happen more mainly because of weight class.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:24 PM  

"For fairness, one should assume that both fighters get the usual talks on the rules, and a couple of months to train in fighting only with techniques that don't break them."

Titus, What the hell are you talking about? My whole point is UNTRAINED.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 3:27 PM  

"Hey man... Rampage is on the phone. He wants to talk to you. He says you should watch more MMA.

Slams happen a lot.

They don't happen more mainly because of weight class."

Hello Mcfly? anybody in there? WHat part of UNTRAINED can you people not get through your skulls?

If you are going to compare pro fighter and former UFC light-heavyweight CHAMPION Rampage Jackson to a totally untrained man, then I am wasting my time having this discussion with you.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 3:28 PM  

"What MMA organization doesn't allow slams? I call BS on that one"

We were just playing around. we weren't even at his gym we were at the place where he teaches TKD part time to make extra cash. he's a younger guy... 20.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 3:48 PM  

"Hello Mcfly? anybody in there? WHat part of UNTRAINED can you people not get through your skulls?'

The amazing thing here is you think an untrained man can't pick someone up and throw them.

Untrained /= Total Pussy

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 3:50 PM  

The best thing Rousey could do, and I think this would be effective if she was humble enough to actually do it... is to pull guard.

I believe she could control the distance long enough to stay conscience and let the guy burn himself out.

Now there is a good possibility he'd break some bones in the process.. but it would still be a draw in the real world.. and a draw in the real world.. is a win.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 4:23 PM  

Ok Nate, we obviously aren't using the same idea of average man, so what is your source for the physical capabilities of what you understand to be the average UNTRAINED man?

OpenID cailcorishev March 20, 2015 4:37 PM  

My ex tried to physically take something from my oldest son, (13 at the time). He just played the resistance game until she grew tired.

I don't have a link or any evidence, but I read somewhere that the average boy surpasses his mother in strength at age 6. At first that seemed crazy, but then I thought about it: they weren't saying size or reach, just raw strength (can't remember if it was overall or upper-body). And most women aren't tough farm wives these days; they're incredibly soft, having never done anything harder than jogging or yoga. So the average woman losing at arm-wrestling to her 7-year-old son? Yeah, I can buy that, actually.

Ever seen an MMA fight decided by pin?

What has that to do with it? We're talking about a gimmick, not a real fight. I haven't seen an NBA game decided by a shot bounced off a guy's head either, but I've seen the Globetrotters do it. I said "pin" because I assumed the fat 40-year-old accountant might be too nice to try to hit her in the face, so he'd probably try to grapple with her. Dunno if he could actually pin her, but way to miss the point.

Anonymous Baseball Savant March 20, 2015 4:39 PM  

"One more story... I know of a farm boy at a bar that has 2 big bouncers on him. He was face down on the ground. One bouncer had him in a kimura... the other was just playing lead blanket to help hold him down.

The dude just got more and more pissed off until he did what amounts to a one armed push up and threw both of them off. A third bouncer came in after that and they were finally able to keep him down."

This is a cool story. I've actually had bouncers come up to me and ask me to help them out if something happened and I wasn't part of it. I'm 5'10/270lbs and the 270lbs isn't fat. I'm friendly with a few bouncers and I asked them once what would happen if I was the one they had to pin down. They all told me they'd try to get 4-5 guys to hold me down and hope I wasn't completely out of my mind.

Anonymous Tom March 20, 2015 4:42 PM  

I watched a UFC fight where Matt Hughes was put in a triangle choke by another fighter and he was able to stand up and slam the other fighter into the mat hard enough to knock him out. Pretty sure ny halfway athletic male could do the same to a 135 lb female.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 4:43 PM  

"They all told me they'd try to get 4-5 guys to hold me down and hope I wasn't completely out of my mind. "

brother.. you why God invented firearms. no offense.

No way I would tangle with a guy like you.

Blogger Nate March 20, 2015 4:45 PM  

"Ok Nate, we obviously aren't using the same idea of average man, so what is your source for the physical capabilities of what you understand to be the average UNTRAINED man?"

Just observation. What I see and interact with every day. Take that with a grain of salt... because I live in the rural south.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 20, 2015 4:48 PM  

Double E: "Titus, What the hell are you talking about?"

The rules. That there are lots of them.

Blogger Double E March 20, 2015 5:01 PM  

"Just observation. What I see and interact with every day. Take that with a grain of salt... because I live in the rural south."

Fair enough. All though not including all the grass-eating big city fairies has to skew the results a bit.

I was basing it off of this article because i couldn't find anything else: http://www.livestrong.com/article/380767-how-much-weight-can-the-average-man-lift/

I don't know where they got that data.

In terms of overall fighting ability of the untrained opponent, I am just basing it off my own personal experience in the jiu jitsu gym. I have seen some insane size and strength deficits overcome by elite grapplers.

Blogger John Wright March 20, 2015 5:12 PM  

"How do women do against men in poker?"

My guy friends will not play poker with gal friends, on the grounds that women can always read their tells.

OpenID cailcorishev March 20, 2015 5:17 PM  

Nah, it's just hyperbole, not lunacy.

Obviously, but no surprise that blog asspies would take her literally. She's correct in general. For 40 years, I've been hearing about how we Americans must like soccer (and use the metric system) because that's the way of the world, and we're uncultured buffoons if we don't follow suit. I kinda enjoy the sport myself (though I was terrible at it), but that sort of snooty pressure breeds resistance.

For what it's worth, those were liberal Americans (mostly schoolteachers) pushing us. I have no idea whether the rest of the world cares whether Americans like soccer. I'd think they'd prefer we didn't; why would they want a US league to have the money to buy up the world's best players? Seems like they should be glad we have the NFL.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 8:11 PM  

Yeah, I understand the reasoning. Why choose soccer in a culture where American Football is default? Well, because it is perceived as safer, obviously. And therein lies the unamerican.


But the reasoning doesn't apply, nor is it supposed to apply, in a culture where soccer (known as football) is the default manly man's sport.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 8:14 PM  

And where American Football, known as yankeefootie, is known as a strange quirk sport, the rules of which nobody knows nor wants to.

Blogger Markku March 20, 2015 8:31 PM  

Mention the sport to any European, and you'll get the same response.

Why in God's Holy Hell is this called football and not handball? Y U NO MAEK SENS?!

Anonymous Anonymous Cowherd March 21, 2015 9:54 PM  

Average female Marine cannot do 2 pullups

Story and comments from those who have lived it.

At 135 lbs Ronda Rousey would probably have 27lbs of fat a male opponent 13.5lbs.

A Fallon Fox advantage it might be called?

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