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Saturday, March 21, 2015

#Comicgate

Dare we dream of a response to the SJWs in the comics world?
CB: And how will you react if and when they tell you some of your art is “problematic?”

EL: I don’t need to do a thing. I’m in charge here. Readers can buy what I’m selling or not. Ideally that’s what it should be. A candy bar company makes a candy bar and you can buy it or not. Those are your two choices. The internet assumes there are two other options: that candy bars can be pulled off the shelves and returned to their manufacturers unsold or that those buying candy bars can stipulate the ingredients. You want to make a different comic book? Make one of your own. You can buy the one I produce or you can not buy it, but you can’t dictate what goes on inside those pages. One guy makes that call.

CB: Lastly Erik, what do you think the long term effects will be if the comic industry continues to acquiesce to these sort of demands?

EL: The slippery slope is a return to the Comics Code. That, or some other kind of censoring body who knows better than the rest of us. Movies have gone in a direction where everything is pre-screened to an audience who weighs in on them and decides what’s good or bad and changes are made accordingly. The danger of taking cues from the audience is pablum like Star Wars Episode I where fans weighed in on what they wanted, George Lucas gave them what he thought they wanted and then they hated what he gave them. The audience is not wiser than the creative people. If they were better writers and artists than those in the field, they would be employed in the field. They’re mouthy amateurs and their suggestions should largely be treated like the witless ramblings of an insane person.

Years ago, Stan Lee instituted a new policy because of a number of letters from readers. Some vocal fans had complained that continued stories were problematic. Since distribution was spotty at best, many readers often missed chapters of continued stories and so they asked that Marvel stop producing continued stories. And so they did. The policy went into effect and a few months later all of their books were self-contained. And then another batch of mail came in complaining about the simple, dull one-part stories throughout the line. And so that policy was tossed out the window.

The danger is in thinking that the vocal few represent the entirety of your audience. They don’t. And so what we’re getting is situations like Jim Lee giving Wonder Woman pants in the Justice League because readers demanded it, then getting rid of them because other readers demanded it, all before the pants version saw print! These publishers are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to please everybody and not knowing who to listen to, and I can’t help but feel that a lot of the people yelling and screaming aren’t buying the comics, pants or no pants.
 #GamerGate has changed the rules. Blue SF is on the rise and the pinkshirts are reeling in dismay. All it takes is for one creator in an industry - just one - to stand up and say "I will create what I want to create" in order to inspire others to do the same.

Labels:

80 Comments:

Anonymous Scintan March 21, 2015 1:18 PM  

The audience is not wiser than the creative people.

Actually, they usually are, at least at the margins. That's the problem.

Anonymous Earl March 21, 2015 1:20 PM  

Isn't Larsen a beardy old white male though?

Blogger hank.jim March 21, 2015 1:45 PM  

Did the creatives decide to turn Thor into a woman?

George Lucas had no excuse for Star Wars 3 (6). He ruined his original vision by tampering with the trilogy. His creativity burnt out a long time ago.

Anonymous Mr. A is Mr. A March 21, 2015 1:54 PM  

Larsen is also an Obama-supporting Leftist, but doesn't make him less of a lightning rod for the SJWs. Much of the Gamergate confrontation has also been Red-on-Red. The goal is to destroy the grip of the SWJs (and like-thinkers) wherever it appears. We may find out along the way that some political barriers are more porous than others in this endeavor.

Anonymous Difster March 21, 2015 2:02 PM  

Does Castalia House have any plans on going in to the comic business?

Anonymous CBG March 21, 2015 2:11 PM  

What do you make of the news that the new Thor seems to be selling very well -- indeed, better than before?

Blogger Vox March 21, 2015 2:11 PM  

Does Castalia House have any plans on going in to the comic business?

No.

What do you make of the news that the new Thor seems to be selling very well -- indeed, better than before?

SJWs always lie.

Blogger wrf3 March 21, 2015 2:13 PM  

The internet assumes there are two other options: that candy bars can be pulled off the shelves and returned to their manufacturers unsold or that those buying candy bars can stipulate the ingredients.

It's entirely reasonable to legislate that no candy bar be made with harmful ingredients and that if some escape the factory that they be pulled from the shelves.

We think that this is how food should be regulated and comics and other media are food for the mind.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 21, 2015 2:17 PM  

I first started reading comics in the pre-internet world of my childhood. I will badly date myself by admitting that this was shortly after Neal Adams started preaching constantly through DC Comics.

Around fourteen/fifteen I decided it was all just a bunch of luchadores and melodrama and packed them away. I was hoping one of them might be worth something someday. Turns out I had a decent eye for future value. Yay little me!

Ten years later I took an interest again when the independents first made an impact in specialty stores. I was a big fan of Sandman because I was still young enough to think it was deep and I was hoping that it was going to open the door to better things. It didn't.

The whole industry is controlled by SJW Gammas and supported by entryists. And the entire market is dependent on middle aged Gen Xers and elderly Aquarians.

But I don't think it's dead, just comatose. I suspect that tablets may change the game, mostly by slaying the comics SJW gatekeepers. At least I hope so.

Blogger MATT March 21, 2015 2:19 PM  

Hank.jim technically speaking, he wasnt transformed into a woman. Nick Fury, turned evil, whispered something into his ear and he was no longer worthy of the hammer, and someone also chopped off his arm. Then some unidentified broad picked it up. He still fights and kicks ass with an axe.

Blogger Alexander Thompson March 21, 2015 2:21 PM  

He will be drummed out of the big two like Dixon was for not praising the sodomites. The comic companies are lost.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit March 21, 2015 2:23 PM  

What do you make of the news that the new Thor seems to be selling very well -- indeed, better than before?
SJWs always lie.


Indeed. Figures show the controversy increased sales of the first issue then it witnessed the greatest crash in sales up to #6 of any Thor title ever. So, lying by omission CBG. QED.

Anonymous CBG March 21, 2015 2:24 PM  

Well, then the SJWs have infiltrated Comichron (http://www.comichron.com) and are messing with the raw data. The new Thor was introduced in Oct 2014. #1 issues get a lot of collectors, and that issue clearly reflects that. But sales have been pretty strong since then, and higher than a few issues chosen at random from 2013 - 2014. Not CRAZY higher, but higher -- at a minimum, fans aren't running away from the title.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit March 21, 2015 2:30 PM  

chosen at random from 2013 - 2014
The figures I saw were comparing like for like - not cherry-picking for effect. We know you lie - go somewhere else to do it please.

Anonymous Leonidas March 21, 2015 2:37 PM  

What do you make of the news that the new Thor seems to be selling very well -- indeed, better than before?

It's entirely possible that it is selling better than before due to a combination of poor sales before plus all of the publicity the title has gotten due to the change.

It won't last, though. When the publicity blitz fades and the novelty wears off the sales will tank even lower.

Blogger MATT March 21, 2015 2:38 PM  

"He will be drummed out of the big two like Dixon was for not praising the sodomites. The comic companies are lost."

Erik Larsen hasnt worked for either company in 2 decades, and was head publisher at Image comics for a few years before stepping down to make his comics again. Hes an industry mainstay with a strong fanbase. Theres nothing they can do to him.

Anonymous Mr. A is Mr. A March 21, 2015 2:41 PM  

@CBG -- Uncertain about the present, but Marvel has had exclusive deals with Diamond (the sole US comic book distributor; comic book stores get their books from Diamond) in the past, and likely has other channel deals with bookstores for graphic novels. Unless there is an objective body that tracks monthly sales figures, how can one know if there is any channel stuffing and dumping occurring? Is there an objective source of magazine distribution figures?

Blogger MATT March 21, 2015 2:48 PM  

http://blog.timesunion.com/comicbooks/crunching-the-comic-sales-numbers/2984/

That site is one of many explaining comic book sales calculations .

Anonymous CBG March 21, 2015 3:00 PM  

You don't like random? Fine, we won't do random. Here's a look at all of Thor's sales from Oct 2010 to the present. (Source: Comichron.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lessmhKNZNVp_0lB0EEhxaQcRDpuQJ9PfGb3wFjcFac/edit?usp=sharing

It's pretty clear from these numbers that Thor is a troubled title in general -- they restarted it in Apr 2011, and then again in Nov 2012, and in both cases there was a rapid decline after the debut issue. Female Thor has only five issues accounted for, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it followed the path set by earlier Thors. But the descent certainly doesn't seem to be as rapid. And those who claim that Female Thor is currently outselling recent iterations of Male Thor certainly have a good case for saying so.

Blogger YIH March 21, 2015 3:06 PM  

EL: The slippery slope is a return to the Comics Code.
Yes, it is that bad; The Comics Code was both the most restrictive and longest-lived of them.
It literally banned horror, sharply curtailed violence (it watered down Westerns so much it killed that genre), banned any foul language (including *&^^%$#@!) and restricted the appearance of women (Betty and Veronica could no longer appear in bikinis or tight clothing).
So restrictive in fact, it took lobbying from the Nixon White House to persuade them to allow anti-drug stories to appear:
But Code administrator Leonard Darvin "was ill" at the time of the Spider-Man story,[12] and acting administrator John L. Goldwater, publisher of Archie Comics, refused to grant Code approval based on the depiction of narcotics being used, regardless of the context,[12]
Although, to be honest, not only couldn't a Comics Code work today (online publishing) the SJW's couldn't kill comic books no matter what they do.
The publisher probably don't turn a profit on any comic book sales - Disney likely makes more money off one popcorn cart in one theme park than all of Marvel's comic book sales.
They publish only to retain the rights, the movies and merchandise is where the money comes from.

Anonymous Scintan March 21, 2015 3:16 PM  

Female Thor has only five issues accounted for, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it followed the path set by earlier Thors. But the descent certainly doesn't seem to be as rapid.

Using the data you supplied:

It's following almost the exact same pattern as its predecessor.

Big first issue
Huge dropoff second issue
Lesser dropoff third issue
essential flat-line for multiple issues following

The previous run (Thor God of Thunder) was at 47% of peak after issue 5, and 46% after issue 6

The current run (Female Thor) is at 46% of peak after issue 5.

According to the numbers, and assuming I didn't mistype into the calculator, the decline, as a percentage, has been essentially the same.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit March 21, 2015 3:19 PM  

But the descent certainly doesn't seem to be as rapid.
Sorry, but the figure you provide yourself show that it is declining more rapidly
Mighty Thor #5 = 54% #1
Thor God of Thunder #5 = 47% #1
Female Thor #5 = 46% #1

But you feel it isn't so thats OK

Anonymous CBG March 21, 2015 3:21 PM  

Fair enough. But it's starting that decline from a slightly higher plateau -- 150M this time, compared to 100M the last couple of times. Maybe the falloff will become steeper, or maybe it will level out this slightly higher level. I dunno. At the absolute barest minimum, Female Thor is a long way from a disaster, and fans are certainly not fleeing from the very idea of it.

Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 3:23 PM  

choosing George Lucas as an example is about as intellectually questionable as you can get.

okay, MAYBE you can make a case that Ep 1 would have been at least mediocre had George ignored test audience opinion.

that still does not explain all of George's ass-tarded edits ( Han shot last! ) and CGI inserts ( Han jumps up and tail on Jabba's tail and NO CONSEQUENCES ) in new releases of Ep4.

let's be honest, even the original theatrical run release of Ep4 was not 'great art'. it was still great fun though.

and George went out of his way to ruin that.

Anonymous Mr. A is Mr. A March 21, 2015 3:24 PM  

@MATT -- Thanks for the link and info. ICv2 and Comic Buyers' Guide -- hmm, not smelling much independence here, especially from CBG -- say, that's interesting set of initials in this thread.

Anonymous vox is a shitstain March 21, 2015 3:25 PM  

I wish people like you would fall into a volcano and die. The human race would be better without shitheads like you, vox. Fuck off and die already. You, and your fans.

Blogger Vox March 21, 2015 3:28 PM  

I wish people like you would fall into a volcano and die. The human race would be better without shitheads like you, vox. Fuck off and die already. You, and your fans.

I'm always impressed with the depth of the other side's rhetoric. What's funny is they insist that they are the intelligent ones.

Anonymous Red Comet March 21, 2015 3:31 PM  

Larsen has always been outspoken in the comics scene with little regard for what people think of him.

He was one of the few creators willing to publicly bash Neil Gaiman over Gaiman's questionable dealings with Marvel to essentially steal ownership of the Marvelman/Miracleman character from Todd McFarlane (McFarlane is Larsen's business partner in Image Comics).

A few other points of interest:

-Pandering to the tumblr crowd is an exercise in futility. The Batgirl comic is designed to do this and that recent cover controversy is actually just the latest one for that book. They invent a new outrage every few weeks. Why, you'd almost think the place was full of mentally unstable weirdos or something.

-The Thor comics sales gloating is based on short term sales. The general trend in comic book sales is a high selling first few issues from #1 and then a regular percentage drop month on month. The big companies generally do stunts for a big new #1 relaunch when sales slide to a certain level. A better comparison would be after the new Thor has at least a year's worth of issues published.

-The SJWs in comics are scared to death of Gamergate. Some SJW comics journos tried to blame a recent controversy (really an ex-comics blogger's attention whoring) on a Hillary Clinton style Vast Gamegate Conspiracy.

I've also seen certain sites and boards actually type it as "G*mergate" or "G@mergate" so their posts won't show up on google searches.

Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 3:33 PM  

Scintan March 21, 2015 3:16 PM
It's following almost the exact same pattern as its predecessor.

Big first issue
Huge dropoff second issue
Lesser dropoff third issue
essential flat-line for multiple issues following



uh, that pattern has been the exact same for every title ever since 'investors' discovered comics. that goes back at least to the 1980s and applies to all titles regardless of publisher and content.

it applies to new Superman / Spiderman / Batman titles just as much as it applies to Squirrel Girl.

as such, the important thing for the long term survival of the title is the long term avg sales. basically, the carrying throughput post issue 5.

in the good old days, if a title couldn't carry +100k issues, in was in serious danger of getting cut. nowadays, there's only something like 5 titles in the entire market that sell 6 figures without a promotional gimmick.

as such, CBGs point about absolute sales is very critical. bimbo Thor may well be over the sales threshold for continued publishing where older Thor titles were not.

however, i would say that 6 issues in is still too early to tell. let's see where they're at after a year.

Blogger MATT March 21, 2015 3:37 PM  

The rabbits use feminine weasely pursed lips words. "Shit head". "Shit stain", resorting to expressions you hear from junior high students. I imagine their bobble heads bouncing with abandon as they type, their anuses clenched and their stupid faces scrunched permanently.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit March 21, 2015 3:37 PM  

What's funny is they insist that they are the intelligent ones.

Speaking of which, did you catch Wesley and Scalzi giggling that #GamerGate supporters don't go to college - while ignoring the fact that the only college Mr Crusher ever went ti was Starfleet Academy?

Blogger MATT March 21, 2015 3:38 PM  

What were the fans demaning Lucas give them with Episode 1? Dont tell me it was a patois spewing token stand-in.

Anonymous tiredofitall March 21, 2015 3:39 PM  

Aw...it turns out "http://voxisashitstain.com/" isn't a real address. I kinda wanted to see it to find out exactly how cuckoo-nutty-muffins the author of that post was.

And to see how long they could keep the act up. The Pox Vay site only lasted 4 1/2 months to my recollection before it was shuttered and deleted by its owner.

Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 3:40 PM  

Red Comet March 21, 2015 3:31 PM
He was one of the few creators willing to publicly bash Neil Gaiman over Gaiman's questionable dealings with Marvel to essentially steal ownership of the Marvelman/Miracleman character from Todd McFarlane



a - it takes no 'courage' to take the side of your BUSINESS PARTNER

b - it's my understanding that the person from whom McFarlane purchased the US MiracleMan rights never, you know, actually owned them.

which means that McFarlane failed to do his due diligence before purchasing. even so, what the seller did is a crime.

but McFarlane needs to be going after the guy he paid money too, not whining about Marvel.

"It later emerged that Dez Skinn and Quality Communications had neglected to purchase the rights to Marvelman from the beginning, meaning that the sale of those rights to Eclipse and subsequently to McFarlane was illegitimate in any case."

Anonymous Scintan March 21, 2015 3:47 PM  

uh, that pattern has been the exact same for every title ever since 'investors' discovered comics.

Take it up with the guy tho whom I was responding. I was only pointing out that his claim about Female Thor's sales declining at a slower rate was incorrect.

Comics lost me a long time back, except for a very rare binge, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. The ruination of my two favorites, Spiderman and Thor, just means that I won't be bothering to return.

Anonymous Harsh March 21, 2015 4:10 PM  

#WonderWomanNeedsPants

Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 4:13 PM  

Scintan March 21, 2015 3:47 PM
Take it up with the guy tho whom I was responding. I was only pointing out that his claim about Female Thor's sales declining at a slower rate was incorrect.


that was an unforced error on his part, especially considering he introduced it.

but the tenor of all of his previous posts was that 'sales' were better ... which seems to be true. and relevant.

however, his own Comichron data indicates that the entire comics market is up +20% year over year on 2014.

once you back out that 'market gain', bimbo Thor still seems to be up slightly vs the previous iteration #5.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 21, 2015 4:34 PM  

Erik Larsen is ridiculing fans, and he comes close to blaming them for silly decisions that creators make when they wildly over-react to fan requests.

GamerGate creators are on good terms with the fans of their games; the problem is with social justice warriors in the media.

It's different.

If Erik Larsen was saying, "we like what we create, and our paying audience likes what we create, but the problem is with corrupt reviewers," then it would be the same.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera March 21, 2015 4:43 PM  

I'm not generally a comic book person, but I think it would be a great format for the adventures of Menelaus Montrose.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera March 21, 2015 4:46 PM  

Regarding SJWs, it's almost as if there should be some sort of information exchange mechanism by which people demonstrate, individually, which scarce goods they'd prefer to have over others, and in what quantities...

Ah, too bad about the socialism though, I think Mises wrote a book about that.

Blogger MATT March 21, 2015 4:56 PM  

Erik larsen iant ridiculing them. Hes rightly criticizing creators for sucking their fans asses and cowering before the gods of political correctness. In both scenarios, the fans are miserable bd complacent . So just do what yu want. Let the sales speak for themselves

Blogger Vox March 21, 2015 4:58 PM  

The SJWs in comics are scared to death of Gamergate.

Just wait a few weeks. They've got more to be scared of. Because we can reclaim lost territory.

Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 5:04 PM  

wrf3 March 21, 2015 2:13 PM
It's entirely reasonable to legislate that no candy bar be made with harmful ingredients and that if some escape the factory that they be pulled from the shelves.

We think that this is how food should be regulated and comics and other media are food for the mind.


a couple of threads back, it was asked if Marissa had made the stupidest comment in the last week on VP. ( i would say no, since her assertion was based on ignorance AND she was willing to drop it when corrected )

so, now we've got wrf3 advocating for legislation and .gov control of which thoughts are permissible to be available to the public.

so much for the 1st Amendment.

too bad this place doesn't offer polls.

Anonymous ENthePeasant March 21, 2015 5:25 PM  

That certainly explains why movies suck so bad.

Anonymous Will Best March 21, 2015 5:40 PM  

He will be drummed out of the big two like Dixon was for not praising the sodomites. The comic companies are lost.

The comic book companies at this point exist to maintain copyright and trademark production for Time Warner and Disney so that they can milk the movie franchises. Generating quality content hasn't been a concern for years.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 21, 2015 6:03 PM  

MATT: "Erik larsen iant ridiculing them."

Anyone can read the whole interview and decide for themselves, if, on balance, Erik Larsen is ridiculing "mouthy amateurs and their suggestions [that] should largely be treated like the witless ramblings of an insane person."

Anonymous kh123 March 21, 2015 6:10 PM  

"so, now we've got wrf3 advocating for legislation and .gov control of which thoughts are permissible to be available to the public.

Coming soon: John Calvin of Mars Hill.

Blogger Feather Blade March 21, 2015 6:20 PM  

This situation is what the fan-fiction tag "don't like, don't read" was made for.

The SJWs are in full control of which stories they allow themselves to see. They have no right to censor an artists free expression simply because they dislike the content.

*snerk* Boy it's hard to say that with a straight face. I remember 20 years ago when so-called liberals were using that same argument against conservatives.

Anonymous Red Comet March 21, 2015 6:43 PM  

a - it takes no 'courage' to take the side of your BUSINESS PARTNER

I never said it did.

b - it's my understanding that the person from whom McFarlane purchased the US MiracleMan rights never, you know, actually owned them.

That's not the truth. The real truth is that no one is actually 100% certain about the legal rights, but most of them are 100% certain they don't have the money to go up against the Mouse for years in court.

If you still think this situation is cut-and-dried then ask yourself: why haven't charges been pressed against Dez Skinn? Why has Todd McFarlane not sued the people from whom he bought the rights?

Anonymous kfg March 21, 2015 7:35 PM  

"so, now we've got wrf3 advocating for legislation and .gov control of which thoughts are permissible to be available to the public."

Because: Food poisoning.

Anonymous ComixCruncher March 21, 2015 7:50 PM  

The new Thor's retailer orders are inflated by variant covers. Each issue comes with multiple covers. I'd guess the actual sales (which we don't ever really know) are much lower. My local store has big stacks of all the issues, including #1. In comparison the orders on the black Captain America are over 70% down from their first issue.

Anonymous Steve March 21, 2015 8:01 PM  

Slightly related: it seems every other brain-damaged Tumblrina or denizen of similar SJWish digital swamps, such as EverydayFeminism, is a "comic artist" or "cartoonist".

Ignoring the message for a second and focusing on their 'talent': it ranges from being able to draw crude stick figures that look like something Helen Keller might have produced if she had access to MS Paint and cheap meth, to crude line drawings that a reasonably diligent 11 year old child could easily replicate.

And here's the punchline: many of them have paid good money - or at least, gotten into debt - to get degrees in Comic Art, or similar fine arts qualifications.

All that time and money spent, and they still can't produce anything as artistically competent as the average autistic brony's Rule 34 MLP fap drawings.

In every sense, SJW's are broken, useless people. They'd literally starve to death if we, the normal folks, stopped feeding them.

Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 9:24 PM  

Red Comet March 21, 2015 6:43 P
I never said it did.



then i fail to see any basis for your characterization of Larson's partner defense as courageous.



Red Comet March 21, 2015 6:43 P
The real truth is that no one is actually 100% certain about the legal rights,



this is absolute bullshit.

for certain, Dez Skinn and Mick Anglo knew the truth. Alan Moore thinks he knows enough of the truth:
"“Mick Anglo had always owned the copyright, that it had never been owned by L. Miller & Son, and that they had not gone bankrupt, but had concluded their affairs quietly in 1963 .... Basically, Mick Anglo had been robbed of his ownership of [Marvelman].” According to Moore, “I was not on the best of terms with Dez Skinn by the end of the Warrior experience. I didn’t trust the man, and my opinion — for what that is worth — is that there was knowing deceit involved in the Marvelman decision.”"


when offered a straight up chance to document the position, Skinn ... begs off?
http://majorspoilers.com/2010/12/23/interview-the-past-present-and-future-of-dez-skinn/
" I know exactly what happened, my memory isn’t addled by age, drugs or booze, and I never throw anything away, so I’ve reams of paperwork about virtually everything. But I fail to see why everything should be so public, it’s about the product."


so. reams of documentation. can't be assed to provide it as evidence. let's all move on. oh, and he doesn't like lawyers ( who would have been involved in Anglo selling him the rights in the first place ).

uh huh.

you'll notice that Marvel DID actually pay Anglo for the rights to his work.

imagine that, a creator being compensated for his creation.

also, Anglo continued to produce MarvelMan work after leaving L.Miller. so now you have to answer the question as to why L.Miller was NOT defending their supposed copyright against Anglo.

i would also note that the assertion that L.Miller filed for bankruptcy would be fairly easy for a UK Ilk to very / falsify.

if, as Moore states, that never happened then WE KNOW that Skinn couldn't have purchased the rights from the office of the Official Receiver. also, that purchase would be public record.

we don't have to ask permission from Skinn to see these records. so, where are they?


Blogger bob k. mando March 21, 2015 9:24 PM  

Red Comet March 21, 2015 6:43 P
but most of them are 100% certain they don't have the money to go up against the Mouse for years in court.
If you still think this situation is cut-and-dried then ask yourself: why haven't charges been pressed against Dez Skinn? Why has Todd McFarlane not sued the people from whom he bought the rights?


a - McFarlane only paid $25,000 for the rights. it's hard to imagine a scenario in which he could recover more than his damages of ... $25k. how much lawyer time could that pay for? yeah, that's what i thought.
b - Eclipse went bankrupt in 95. they 'bought' what they thought were the rights in good faith. McFarlane paid 25k for ALL of the Eclipse IP. what portion of that 25k should be assigned to the value of MiracleMan?
c - Skinn and Anglo ( now dead ) are both, you know, in England. if McFarlane is going bring effective civil suit against Skinn, where does he have to go? even more expense.
d - you might ask why Anglo never did anything? how the hell do you think Anglo is going to afford coming to the States to defend his copyright? they didn't make reams of money in the 50s/60s doing comics like they did in the 80s.


i note that Gaiman also seems to think that Skinn didn't own the rights.



ComixCruncher March 21, 2015 7:50 PM
The new Thor's retailer orders are inflated by variant covers.



it's important to note that we are NOT looking at sales numbers. we are looking at distribution shipping numbers which are being used as a proxy for sales.

gimmicks like variant covers may work for a little while. another consideration would be that there are a lot of Gamma / Omega shop owners who buy the title because vagina and Feminism.

that's why i would wait a ~year for the sales to shake out.

even male Feminists aren't going to be able to carry this title by over-ordering if it doesn't start to sell through.

Anonymous Jim Milo March 21, 2015 9:32 PM  

Shut up rabbit: Yeah, I saw that. Then he demonstrated he knows SFA about law by claiming that labeling Richard Dawkins a rape apologist (he was abused himself) isn't defamation.

Then, about a hour later, the Block Bot shut down.

Insert Napoleon quote about not interrupting the enemy when making a mistake.

Anonymous Jim Milo March 21, 2015 9:34 PM  

MATT: All the shit- talk does is make them sound like Jim Lahey from the Trailer Park Boys. They don't realize how dumb they sound.

Anonymous zen0 March 21, 2015 9:38 PM  

vox is a shitstain March 21, 2015 3:25 PM
I wish people like you would fall into a volcano and die. The human race would be better without shitheads like you, vox. Fuck off and die already. You, and your fans.


oh, ouch! I think you need to work on your "outrage" vectors a little more here. Try and present something a little more original with a bit of a twist, and something with a little more insight into the actual weaknesses of the opponent, if you can actually identify any, being a moron and all.

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 21, 2015 9:43 PM  

"He will be drummed out of the big two like Dixon was for not praising the sodomites. "

Perhaps he can praise the sodomites over at gaypatriot to get back in their good graces.

"Slightly related: it seems every other brain-damaged Tumblrina or denizen of similar SJWish digital swamps, such as EverydayFeminism, is a "comic artist" or "cartoonist"...many of them have paid good...debt - to get degrees in Comic Art"

So many gays drink the kool aid thinking they can do art.

I have had an epiphany, gay bottoms are naturally socialist just like no kid career woman cat ladies because they are both on the wrong side of supply & demand. I had never thought about it before but they both want men redistributed to them.

Anonymous zen0 March 21, 2015 9:46 PM  

@ Jim Milo

All the shit- talk does is make them sound like Jim Lahey from the Trailer Park Boys.

Yah, but they do not have the art of it.

Fer instance: Trailer Park Boys - Mr. Lahey's Shit Metaphors

"He grew up as a little shit spark from the old shit flint hen he turned into a shit bonfire and then, driven by the winds of his monumental ignorance, he turned into a raging shit firestorm. If I get to be married to Barb, I'll have total control of Sunnyvale and then I can unleash a shitnami tidal wave that will engulf Ricky and extinguish his shit flames forever. And, with any luck, he'll drown in the undershit of that wave....shit waves."

Anonymous zen0 March 21, 2015 10:00 PM  

@ Big Gay Steve

I have had an epiphany, gay bottoms are naturally socialist just like no kid career woman cat ladies because they are both on the wrong side of supply & demand. I had never thought about it before but they both want men redistributed to them.

You're a gem. Is this why homosexuals are attracted to National Socialism? Or is that some other thing.

Also, did you know that Sufi Islam considers pederasty a spiritual pursuit?

Blogger Joshua Dyal March 21, 2015 10:12 PM  

We think that this is how food should be regulated

No, "we" don't.

Blogger Joshua Dyal March 21, 2015 10:16 PM  

The publisher probably don't turn a profit on any comic book sales - Disney likely makes more money off one popcorn cart in one theme park than all of Marvel's comic book sales.
They publish only to retain the rights, the movies and merchandise is where the money comes from.


Comics is a moribund industry. Manga has been eating them alive since the 90s at least.

Anonymous Feh March 21, 2015 10:30 PM  

Predictable enough.

http://thepunditpress.com/2015/03/21/person-putting-whites-only-stickers-around-austin-turns-out-to-be-liberal-social-justice-warrior/

Blogger maniacprovost March 21, 2015 10:48 PM  

I'd rather read volume 31 of the latest repetitive baseball manga than Vagina Thor.

Anonymous Mudz March 21, 2015 11:19 PM  

I don't know how the sales are doing, but I do think there will be people who keep buying bad comics for the same reason they keep watching a TV show, because maybe it'll get better, and what else are they going to do? There's no alternative 'Thor' title to follow.

I can say though, that I went and read two popular Thor runs, "God of Thunder" by the same writer, and JMS' Thor. Even when it annoyed me on a theological level, that was pre-guaranteed, and the stories were still interesting and entertaining (I was bummed the God-butcher wasn't the angel Death, though. That would have been cool.)

Then I read the first four issues of She-Thor, and the difference in quality was staggering. It's like they weren't even trying to make her interesting. She's so apathetic she might as well not exist anyway.
And even Thor was whiny and weird.

The art's hilarious too. Thor always looking like he just snuffed a dog's butt.

I will still always laugh that the hammer had to literally re-write its enchantment on the spot to justify this most arbitrary of developments..
'No, it totally says she, see it's right here! I'm all for that equality thing, really!' Maybe it was worried it'd be sued for sexism.

I think maybe DC/Marvel just aren't sure how to write interesting and appealing women in this category. I found WW about as dull as She-Thor. They're likely sabotaged by the fact they keep trying to write them into men's roles, or bow to a foolish political agenda.

The amount of LGBT agenda in DC is ridiculous. I couldn't even list all the examples if I tried, because it's thematic at this point. DC is gay comics.

Anonymous Smokey March 22, 2015 1:01 AM  

I never understood why people keep poo-pooing Jim Balent's Catwoman drawings. They weren't really any more cheese-cakey than how other artists draw Catwoman, and if I see one more idiot blather on about "unrealistic poses", I'm going to smash something. Maybe it would help if somebody took the liberty of taking photographs of themselves in those "unrealistic poses". If a goddamn man could pose like that with no trouble, feminists have no excuse. Unless they are just too fat.

I think maybe DC/Marvel just aren't sure how to write interesting and appealing women in this category. I found WW about as dull as She-Thor. They're likely sabotaged by the fact they keep trying to write them into men's roles, or bow to a foolish political agenda.

Maybe a bit off-topic, Mudz, but are you the Super-Mudz guy that got into an argument with the Wonder Woman morons, er, fans on Comic Vine? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Anonymous Mudz March 22, 2015 1:40 AM  

@ Smokey

Yep! The same guy. I always go by Mudz/SuperMudz on the net. I was actually curious if anyone was following that site.

I have to say it's probably the most unproductive forum I've ever commented on. The pretentiousness quotient is ludicrously high, and at least a couple of the WW forum-goers appear to actually be entirely self-aware saboteurs of the industry in the name of feminism, which I find interesting.

5 pages just to convey 'I want Superman to stop being a pussy'. Yeesh.

Kind of a shame I was there to pass a friendly message to the writers. It might actually have been entertaining to go to war on the site. The sacrifices I'm forced to make, sometimes.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 22, 2015 1:43 AM  

Maybe it would help if somebody took the liberty of taking photographs of themselves in those "unrealistic poses".

McRapey and McCreepy already thought of that.

Anonymous Clay March 22, 2015 2:09 AM  

I apologize for going OT, but, hey Nate...Do you have an opinion on this?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/03/20/army-and-marine-corps-still-disagree-over-m16-m4-bullet.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=3

Just curiosity.

Anonymous Bait In The Bunny Trap March 22, 2015 2:20 AM  

OMG. I just read where that Sam Elliot just admitted he was a closet homosexual! All the girls must be in mourning.

(not really, just a poke, so to say)

Blogger Brad Andrews March 22, 2015 3:16 AM  

Anyone know what Fury whispered into Thor's ear? All I can find is speculation. Was it ever spelled out?

====

Comparing the female thor sales against the poor recent rewrites of Thor doesn't prove much. It was a poor reboot before that, with Asgard coming down to Earth. That made absolutely no sense in my view. So selling better than that would not be much of an achievement.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit March 22, 2015 4:13 AM  

Anyone know what Fury whispered into Thor's ear?

"They're going to reboot you as a black, trans, lesbian." ?

Blogger Hermit March 22, 2015 7:20 AM  

The argument here is similar to the one against democracy.
If someone is ill would you trust a medic who know what to do or would you have a bunch of people vote about what to do.
The audience is no wiser than the creative writers, this is also true for the electorate.
In fact the more the electorate was extended the more it elected unacceptable leaders with the only quality of being good in emotional propaganda.

Blogger Lovekraft March 22, 2015 9:23 AM  

i for one would like to see MGTOW-type stories in comics, where 'heroes' are fighting against statists who meddle and undermine their choices, via sending thugs/villains to interfere. Wolverine for example should never be dealing with 'feeeeelings' as it totally undermines his main attraction to readers. He would be the first to call out any sjw-type attitude.

Blogger Lovekraft March 22, 2015 9:28 AM  

If you want to see a true red piller in comics, check out Dave Sim's Cerebus. His essay in issue #186 (I think) called '15 impossible things to believe before breakfast' is an excellent summary of prog criticism.

Anonymous Smokey March 22, 2015 9:50 AM  

Wolverine for example should never be dealing with 'feeeeelings' as it totally undermines his main attraction to readers. He would be the first to call out any sjw-type attitude.

It's really kind of sad what happened to Wolverine. He used to be this "don't-give-a-fuck" gritty badass, then somewhere around the early 2000's, Marvel started to slowly neuter him. As a result, he became this Daddy figure to a bunch of mutant brats, instead of just slicing up mothafuckas like a boss in some back alley of a crime-infested slum.

The pretentiousness quotient is ludicrously high, and at least a couple of the WW forum-goers appear to actually be entirely self-aware saboteurs of the industry in the name of feminism, which I find interesting.

FoamBorn? Yeah, she (I think it's a she) sounds like a pitch-perfect parody of a radical feminist most of the time. Except she's deathly serious about it.

Anonymous Tom B March 22, 2015 10:06 AM  

All it would take is one? Hmmmm......

I wrote a motion picture screenplay back in 1998. I entered that screenplay into the Austin Heart of Film screenwriting contest and was a semi-finalist. I landed the attention of a lit agency called Smith Entertainment, who pushed my script through the studios (meeting moderate interest with a few producers) before going under six months later. So ended the dream of Hollywood.

I have been contemplating dusting the script off and finding a young artist who wants to break into the industry to partner up on a graphic novel base on that screenplay, with the idea that if it were successful I had two more story ideas based on the same character (a former special forces soldier turned Catholic Priest)

I don't know if Graphic Novels are something Vox and Castalia House want to get into, but if someone among the Ilk is an artist or knows someone looking to do comic book art I'd be interested in hearing from them. And I guarantee to piss off the SJW's if we do it.

Anonymous Hrw-500 March 22, 2015 10:18 AM  

>http://thepunditpress.com/2015/03/21/person-putting-whites-only-stickers-around-austin-turns-out-to-be-liberal-social-justice-warrior/

I guess he won't try the same stunt in Camden, Ferguson, Selma, Newark.... ;-)

Anonymous The other skeptic March 22, 2015 11:37 AM  

He continued, “And they got this poor girl coming out here talkin’ ’bout, ‘it hurt my feelings!’ Man, who cares about your feelings, man? Seriously?”

That's pretty ballsy stuff. I am sure he would like to say those things in Ferguson or in Iraq.

Anonymous Donn March 22, 2015 12:28 PM  

Wolverine was always about feelings. Rage, killing people, and fucking up shit (although I am not sure that property damage is a feeling per se). I think Wolverine driven by animal instincts and feelings is the best wolverine.

Although the Miller short run with Kitty Pride and all the ninja stuff was pretty cool.

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