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Monday, March 30, 2015

Engagement is impossible

The other day, I visited Mike Glyer's File 770 in response to his post that Sad Puppies 4 has been announced, with the infamous Kate the Impaler taking up the black flag from Brad Torgersen.
Kate the Impaler, of the Evil Legion of Evil, will be picking up the banner for Sad Puppies 4 and running with it. I even promised not to impale anyone with it (it’s such a pretty flag, and getting blood and… stuff… all over it would make those poor sad puppies even more sad. Even the Evil Legion of Evil has standards, you know. We’re completely against letting Sad Puppies stay sad. We want them to be happy).

There won’t be much action from Sad Puppies 4 for quite some time, but rest assured I will be lurking in the shadows looking for worthy candidates for the campaign to End Puppy-Related Sadness. When the time is right, announcements will be made and campaigning will begin in earnest. In the meantime, I shall rub my hands together and practice my evil cackle.
This is good news, of course, for those of you who were unable to join the Legion in the Sad Puppies 3 campaign. In any event, I explained that a number of the commenters had some fairly basic misconceptions about Sad Puppies in the following manner.

With all due respect, Mr. Fitch, I suggest that a popular movement led by a woman named “Kate the Impaler” is not overly concerned with an appearance of dignity. In fact, her appellation tends to suggest what the members of the movement believe can be done with those historical concerns about professional dignity.

As for the notion of being scorned, well, that’s the benefit of having been roundly scorned before. It renders one immune. They had one bullet. It’s been fired. And it is worth noting that Sad Puppies are simply following the advice of Mr. John Scalzi.

“Change the Hugos by nominating, voting and participating, or (much more slowly and far less reliably) actively making your case to the people who are nominating, voting and participating. As a pro tip, explicitly or implicitly disparaging their intelligence, taste or standing to make choices when you try to do that is unlikely to persuade them to decide anything other than that you’re probably an asshole.”
– John Scalzi, April 5, 2013


After answering a number of questions, correcting still more misconceptions, ignoring numerous passive-aggressive shots at me, and deflecting Andrew Marston's usual nonsense, that led to this comment from one Martin Wisse:
Vox Day loves to play the victim, loves to fall back on his 1/8 Cherokee princess ancestory when called on his racism and it’s never, ever his fault that people are mean to him, despite his long and sordid history of being a racist, sexist gobshite.

He doesn’t care about science fiction, not even to the extent a Correira or Torgedsen still care about it, he just cares about sticking it to the liberals in his head.

What the Sad Puppies are doing is just your bog standard wingnut culture war, fighting an imagined persecution of their “art” when the truth is that their work is at best mediocre and worse, not nearly as popular of that of their perceived enemies. It burns them up inside to have Redshirts winning the Hugo and optioned for a tv show.
On top of that, James May posted a Twitter stream at Brad Torgersen's site by some of the very people who were "engaging" with me at File 770. As you can see, they don't appear to have been doing so in good faith:
Cora Buhlert ?@CoraBuhlert 3h3 hours ago @PrinceJvstin @shaunduke @SFReviewsnet Are we talking about VD vomitting all over File770?

Paul Weimer ?@PrinceJvstin 3h3 hours ago @CoraBuhlert @shaunduke @SFReviewsnet yes, and how I’m crazy for trying to engage with him.

Cora Buhlert ?@CoraBuhlert 3h3 hours ago @PrinceJvstin @shaunduke @SFReviewsnet I tried to engage with these people, too, at first, but I really think they’re beyond engaging.

shaunduke ?@shaunduke 2h2 hours ago @CoraBuhlert @PrinceJvstin @SFReviewsnet It would be nice if one could reasonably expect an actual engagement, but you can’t, really.

Paul Weimer ?@PrinceJvstin 2h2 hours ago @shaunduke @CoraBuhlert @SFReviewsnet I’ve tried. Lord knows I have tried

shaunduke ‏@shaunduke 3h3 hours ago @PrinceJvstin @SFReviewsnet After all, calling him out for being racist and sexist is just fact. He is both of those things.”
Setting aside the observable absurdity of calling someone racist then openly mocking his Native American heritage, what is important is for us to understand that there is no point in even trying to engage with these SJWs because they quite clearly believe that we are beyond engagement.

Well and good. That is a feature, not a bug, as far as I am concerned. There is no reason to bother trying to convince them otherwise, as we shall simply cease to engage with them. When the SJWs whine and complain and cry and beg for mercy, they will hear nothing from us. From now on, let the only engagement we give them be the bottoms of our boots treading upon their fat, tear-stained, and screaming faces.

You can smell the SJW fear already. And however acrid and reminiscent of Cheetohs it may be, the scent is sweet indeed:
If there is proof on the Gator thing (and it is certainly wretchedly plausible, since Beale threw in with them early in one of his desperate bids for fanboys) I will be angry, and a little frightened, since coming to the attention of that particular group has proved very unsafe.

At the same time--and this is the part that frustrates me--a vote from someone who wants to watch the world burn is just as good as a vote from someone who read and agonized and voted for books they loved, and the judges can't distinguish because then we careen down the slippery slope--and the extra maddening bit is that there doesn't seem to be anything to DO about it!

How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community? 
They had one bullet. Or rather, they thought they did. It turned out to be a blank. What's amusing is that last year they were busy victory-dancing and babbling about how upset the Sad Puppies were about our failure to win any awards. I said, entirely truthfully, that I didn't give a damn about awards. I never have. Perhaps now they are starting to understand that I do not lie.

And I didn't throw in with GamerGate. GamerGate is MY community. It has been for my entire life. GamerGate is my brothers and my sisters. And while I'm not the smallest billy goat in #GamerGate, I've certainly got some big brothers who are much bigger and badder than me.

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82 Comments:

Blogger Double E March 30, 2015 3:09 PM  

Gotta love this part:

"How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community? "

How, Indeed?

Hilarious to see the smoke coming out of their ears when the ULTIMATE NULLIFIER of group banishment was used and all it did was elicit a collective "pssh" from their enemies.

Anonymous MrGreenMan March 30, 2015 3:16 PM  

Call me a liberal all you want, but I believe that the English had a legitimate claim that Henry V was going to enforce to the French Crown. Those misogynists who want to assault your heritage and claim that women are just chattel and incapable of passing on nationality are just the worst human beings ever and need to check their privilege.

Anonymous Alexander March 30, 2015 3:17 PM  

"I can stomp on a thing you care about because you caring about it gives me power over you," is the entire modus operandi.

Her projection on gamergate is something else.

Blogger Krul March 30, 2015 3:19 PM  

"Gator"? Is that they're name for #gamergate supporters?

I like it. Alligators make awesome mascots.

Which reminds me, I need some new boots...

Blogger bob k. mando March 30, 2015 3:20 PM  

It would be nice if one could reasonably expect an actual engagement, but you can’t, really.



i'm having a hard time not reading that as a re-phrasing of "I'm not going to sleep with them, although i'd kinda like too."

Anonymous Varenius March 30, 2015 3:24 PM  

Vox Day loves to play the victim, loves to fall back on his 1/8 Cherokee princess ancestory when called on his racism and it’s never, ever his fault that people are mean to him, despite his long and sordid history of being a racist, sexist gobshite

They really have no clue where you're coming from, do they, Vox?

Blogger Markku March 30, 2015 3:25 PM  

Ursula doesn't know what to do? Well, here's a novel idea: Change the Hugos by nominating, voting and participating, or (much more slowly and far less reliably) actively making your case to the people who are nominating, voting and participating.

Blogger bob k. mando March 30, 2015 3:25 PM  

also, yes, the 'ultimate disqualifier' of being associated with GamerGate is quite hilarious.

who the hell did these dumbshits think we'd be associating with? you assholes publish ~10 "Gamers are Dead" articles in the space of two days and you think we aren't going to notice that this is a coordinated put up job?

no? that was a purely natural and random happenstance?

oh, so the almost total dearth of 'Gamers are Dead' articles since that week is ... ?

boredom? fatigue? you noticed your lying wasn't working?

help me out here.

Anonymous Sheila March 30, 2015 3:27 PM  

"How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community? "
Double E, that struck me as well. They cannot comprehend anyone NOT wanting to be part of their "community" with its rules and thought and speech controls. What makes them feel safe makes normal people feel stifled. The only possible engagement with such creatures is a hostile one, which can be accomplished simply by existing and standing one's ground, rather than slinking off into the shadows.

Anonymous Scintan March 30, 2015 3:30 PM  

I found Hayden's post trying to differentiate a slate of works from a slate of works, in order to use said difference as a justification, to be even more amusing.

Blogger AmyJ March 30, 2015 3:31 PM  

Engage? Please. They're like fat kids dipping their toes in the water, afraid that it might be cold and wet. They simply run away and claim it's no use, might as well not even try.

Anonymous Randy M March 30, 2015 3:33 PM  

I dunno. I've seen some members of this community, its collective weight would truly be staggering.

Blogger Noah B March 30, 2015 3:34 PM  

At the same time--and this is the part that frustrates me--a vote from someone who wants to watch the world burn is just as good as a vote from someone who read and agonized and voted for books they loved, and the judges can't distinguish because then we careen down the slippery slope--and the extra maddening bit is that there doesn't seem to be anything to DO about it!

One almost gets the impression these folk don't care for democracy.

Anonymous Alexander March 30, 2015 3:35 PM  

It must be quite a serious issue though, because if there's one thing the SJW community has, it's its weight.

If that's not enough, I'm not sure what to recommend.

Anonymous Nathan March 30, 2015 3:39 PM  

Please, oh, please, bring in GamerGate proper to this fight. I want to see InternetAristocrat, Sargon of Akkad, ShortFatOtaku, CameraLady, and all the dozens of others who went digging for connections and digging for corruption to start looking into literary SFF.

Anonymous Mike M. March 30, 2015 3:41 PM  

It occurs to me that the SJWs are missing a chance to counterattack by agreeing and amplifying. Pick a couple of items off the Sad Puppies or Rabid Puppies slate, and say, "Yes, this is surely worthy of a Hugo nomination."

Anonymous kfg March 30, 2015 3:43 PM  

As someone with 1/8 Transylvanian princess ancestry, and possibly related to the man himself, all I can say to Kate's appropriation of the eponym is - start taking heads Kate. Start taking heads.

And speaking of heads, Ursula's is a box full of shorts.

Anonymous Goodnight March 30, 2015 3:44 PM  

"How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community? "

Yes, this shows a remarkable lack of introspection. Shun them! Shun them! Shun them! Hey...why aren't they listening to us?

Blogger bob k. mando March 30, 2015 3:45 PM  

Mike M. March 30, 2015 3:41 PM
It occurs to me that the SJWs are missing a chance to counterattack by agreeing and amplifying.



you're a tricksy little hobbit, aren't youses?

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 30, 2015 3:45 PM  

If there is proof on the Gator thing (and it is certainly wretchedly plausible, since Beale threw in with them early in one of his desperate bids for fanboys) I will be angry, and a little frightened, since coming to the attention of that particular group has proved very unsafe.

Yes, it's quite terrifying. You might have numerous unasked for pizzas delivered to your house! Even worse, someone might give your phone number to a used car dealership saying your interested in a car! Clearly the Gators are life threatening.

Blogger Krul March 30, 2015 3:50 PM  

"How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community?"

The interesting thing about this is that it shows 1) a conscious intention to use community disapproval to control others' behavior, 2) the assumption that such social control is normal and effective, and of course 3) utter helplessness when such social control proves ineffective. Sums up the "rabbit" perspective nicely, I think.

Blogger Chiva March 30, 2015 3:55 PM  

"a vote from someone who wants to watch the world burn is just as good as a vote from someone who read and agonized and voted for books they loved"

Sniffle, sniffle. Damn that equality stuff.

Blogger Corvinus March 30, 2015 4:01 PM  

The interesting thing about this is that it shows 1) a conscious intention to use community disapproval to control others' behavior, 2) the assumption that such social control is normal and effective, and of course 3) utter helplessness when such social control proves ineffective. Sums up the "rabbit" perspective nicely, I think.

Heh. Like when ugly feminists use the "I'm not gonna sleep with you" disqualify, then wonder why their target remains completely indifferent.

Blogger ajw308 March 30, 2015 4:02 PM  

...start taking heads Kate. Start taking heads.
I read "Start staking heads Kate. Start staking heads."

That just sounds so much more feminine and dainty.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 30, 2015 4:06 PM  

If any of those twits could come close to Wright's "One Bright Star" or Kratman's "Big Boys" level I would be surprised, but my guess is that they are SyFyction bad, Sharnado bad.

Blogger Student in Blue March 30, 2015 4:08 PM  

That just sounds so much more feminine and dainty.

I blame Buffy, that "staking" is a feminine-sounding, dainty verb.

Anonymous beerme March 30, 2015 4:14 PM  

I find the idea that the general population of SF/F readers should concede the Hugos and create our own awards laughable. Yet that is what these entryists declare we should do instead of taking back what was lost to a small minority. Do they not understand that entryism only works when you can bar the doors behind you? Since they cannot bar the doors due to the way WorldCon membership is structured, they are the ones who need to create their own awards where their fragile flowers can blossom undisturbed by the general masses.

One of the commenters from the original post seems to understand part of the issue, but fails to understand that their small community can only dominate the majority only as long as the majority doesn't care or is barred from entry.
At the same time--and this is the part that frustrates me--a vote from someone who wants to watch the world burn is just as good as a vote from someone who read and agonized and voted for books they loved, and the judges can't distinguish because then we careen down the slippery slope--and the extra maddening bit is that there doesn't seem to be anything to DO about it!
The discouraging thing--among a bouquet of discouraging things--is that literary SF, when you get right down to it, is a very small world. 8,000 people at a Worldcon was considered extraordinary.

Their fantasy world only reigned supreme due to the real world not noticing it. The real world has taken notice and consequences will never be the same.

Blogger Noah B March 30, 2015 4:15 PM  

"How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community?"

They're threatening to sit on you Vox! It's a death threat!

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis March 30, 2015 4:22 PM  

If there is proof on the Gator thing (and it is certainly wretchedly plausible, since Beale threw in with them early in one of his desperate bids for fanboys) I will be angry, and a little frightened, since coming to the attention of that particular group has proved very unsafe.

I love this because it perfectly displays both an unthinking mentality and the rabbit one. They have constantly harped on and on about how they are unfrightened because gamergate is "unsafe" yet they have no concrete evidence whatsoever. There is strong circumstantial evidence that Wu lied about having to flee her home, Anita did not cancel her talk at a university because of #gamergate but because the university refused to ban students from attending who had conceal carry license, and every incidence of genuine harassment by "gamergaters" turned out to be either outright SJWs masqueraders or trolls who themselves were uncovered by actual members of gamergate.

It seems like individuals who are of the rabbit mentality take the claims of other rabbits who are higher in their consulted victim/elitist hierarchy, and they never bother to investigate them for themselves. It is also abundantly clear that they really do not pay attention to the outside world in any meaningful sense. They bitch and moan about microaggressions and they become incensed when every other normal rational person points to Africa/Asia/South America and states the obvious about how absurd their complaints are relative to the rest of the world.

Anonymous Anubis March 30, 2015 4:25 PM  

"a vote from someone who wants to watch the world burn is just as good as a vote from someone who read and agonized and voted for books they loved"

This racist wants Voter ID and literacy tests as a requirement to vote. Is there a way we can selectively quote and turn the rabbits on her?

"when ugly feminists use the "I'm not gonna sleep with you" disqualify, then wonder why their target remains completely indifferent."
Yet there never seems to be enough beer to make them seem nice.

Anonymous Anubis March 30, 2015 4:28 PM  

"How do you bring the weight of community disapproval on someone who isn't part of the community?" They're threatening to sit on you Vox! It's a death threat!

There is a lot of gravity to that threat.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 30, 2015 4:28 PM  

It burns them up inside to have Redshirts winning the Hugo and optioned for a tv show.

It doesn't burn us. It embarrasses us. Look Old Man's War wasn't great but in an off year it could have been a plausible win. It was about as good as Fountains of Paradise.

Red Shirts however, was at best competently mediocre. I suspect strongly that the only reason it won, was that most of the people who voted for it hadn't read it. It would have been hard to vote for otherwise.

But Tor promoted it. Jonathon Coulton sang an unamusing song about it. Various reviewers said they all liked it. But the only reason it won a Hugo was the hype. Anyone who actually read it would have been embarrassed about admitting they voted for the damn thing.

As for the TV series. It's on cable. Basic Cable. This ain't Game of Thrones here. It' going to be a limited series on FX. Which means Scalzi will temporarily be taking money from Rupert Murdoch. It will probably be enough for him to start a TV career. It won't be a great career but will be all his, I wish him joy of it.

Regardless, Red Shirts is an embarrassment to the Hugo awards. A symptom of severe inbreeding, in a dynasty that is in terminal decline.

Blogger Dystopic March 30, 2015 4:32 PM  

Scalzi has a certain annoying writing style in his blog posts and other non-fiction. It's overly pedantic and almost autistic, like he's fumbling through the dictionary trying to find words that make him look smart.

Anonymous beerme March 30, 2015 4:36 PM  

@Cataline Sergius Excellent response.

I also wish Scalzi well with his TV career and actually think writing one or multiple shows for SyFy would be a good fit for him.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 30, 2015 4:37 PM  

Actually we have done the Hugo's reputation a considerable good.

For a long time a lot of prominent writers, were muttering privately or (in John Ringo's case) in public that there was a lot vote suppression going on in the Hugos.

The Sad Puppies have been a very effective audit of the system. We can now say with absolute certainty there is no voter suppression in the Hugo Awards.

They should be grateful we've restored their reputation.

Anonymous WaterBoy March 30, 2015 4:46 PM  

Vox: "The other day, I visited Mike Glynn's File 770..."

Correction: Mike Glyer

Kate: "There won’t be much action from Sad Puppies 4 for quite some time, but rest assured I will be lurking in the shadows looking for worthy candidates for the campaign to End Puppy-Related Sadness."

This should put lie to the belief that SP is only about winning awards, since the campaign for next year has begun before any winners -- or even nominees -- for this year have even been officially announced.

Should...but it won't.

Anonymous Daniel March 30, 2015 5:10 PM  

How? Oh how? How many rabbits does it take to stuff the the throats of these big bad wolves before they choke? Why do they keep eating us? We are fatter than ever, yet still they swallow us whole!

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus March 30, 2015 5:14 PM  

Vox is 1/8 Cherokee?

Free scholarships, baby!

Blogger Salt March 30, 2015 5:31 PM  

Red Shirts however, was at best competently mediocre. I suspect strongly that the only reason it won, was that most of the people who voted for it hadn't read it.

One commenter at File 770 said

"The general vibe I got from most of the sf/f forums I belong to was that a lot of people thought Scalzi won for being Scalzi."

Blogger Brad Andrews March 30, 2015 5:46 PM  

Fanboys?

How many of those at Scalzi's site, for example, regularly disagree with him? How many here never disagree with Vox on something? How many are vocal about it?

I haven't read Scalzi's site much, but I get the idea he would ban and likely delete such arguments. Here you just get ignored in most cases.

Blogger Shibes Meadow March 30, 2015 5:57 PM  

I respect our host, but when he's wrong about something, I note it. The fact that this is permitted, even welcomed at times, is the main reason that this combox is the only one to which I devote any of my extremely limited free time. It's so refreshing to find an online conversation that isn't populated by pissy little queers who can't abide any opinion other than their own.

Anonymous Steve March 30, 2015 6:04 PM  

a vote from someone who wants to watch the world burn is just as good as a vote from someone who read and agonized and voted for books they loved, and the judges can't distinguish because then we careen down the slippery slope--and the extra maddening bit is that there doesn't seem to be anything to DO about it!

Why so serious?

Anonymous malcolm March 30, 2015 6:11 PM  

Maybe I'm not reading clearly, but there are no comments from Vox in this thread: http://file770.com/?p=21617

Have they been deleted, or was vox responding elsewhere?

Blogger Kate Paulk March 30, 2015 6:21 PM  

I've got to say I find it amusing to see the smattering of "who the heck is this Kate Paulk person?" comments. You'd almost think they were looking for a way to invalidate SP4 based on who's running it (and are kind of frustrated that they've found a nobody with next to no chance of nomination so there's no way they can claim it's ego or something).

Never mind taking or staking heads. The SJW in-crowd is busily impaling itself without any help from me.

Anonymous Nathan March 30, 2015 6:25 PM  

"It burns them up inside to have Redshirts winning the Hugo and optioned for a tv show."

So has Monster Hunter International. Big deal. Until it's scheduled, an option means little. And, given the Wheel of Time stunt on TV, I'd be more scared than thrilled if I was Scalzi, since even being shown on TV is little assurance of quality.

Anonymous Geoff March 30, 2015 6:46 PM  

The Academy Awards analogy is apt in a way. The Academy was completely captured by SJWs a long time ago. The Hugo's are in danger of suffering a similar fate if not for the efforts of the puppies.

Anonymous Lee Hwang March 30, 2015 6:51 PM  

Gamergate has minorities in fact alot of silent but active american asians and american blacks, you know.
Most of us consider ourselves american first.
If you're cool with minorities who are willing to assimilate , defend capitalism, and free speech.
We'll get along just fine.

Good Luck Dealing with the SJW's in Sci-Fi,
I'm personally looking forward to day some one as skilled as Terry Prachett rises up again.

Anonymous kfg March 30, 2015 6:52 PM  

"The SJW in-crowd is busily impaling itself without any help from me."

The schadenfreude would be more satisfying if they weren't so blinkered that they can't see that the petard they are hoist on was made by their own hands.

Anonymous Steve March 30, 2015 6:53 PM  

"It burns them up inside to have Redshirts winning the Hugo and optioned for a tv show."

I paid good money for Redshirts. And, while it didn't "burn me up" to find I had been hoodwinked into thinking its Hugo award (and all the praise it got on sites like iO9) meant that it was good, I did feel slightly annoyed to have wasted my time and money. I've read cheapo 99p self published efforts on Kindle that had howling errors in the spelling and punctuation, yet were more entertaining.

And I read that book all the way to the end, long after it stopped being mildly amusing and just became a tedious slog. I like to get my money's worth.

If somebody wants to make a TV show of a less-funny Galaxy Quest knockoff? No skin off my nose. Most TV is shit. Not sure why I'd be annoyed at somebody making a show I have no plans to watch. I'm not burned up at the fact that Jersey Shore exists, and by all accounts that show is more objectionable than Redshirts could ever be.

It's even possible some decent writers might be able to make something decent out of the premise, though I doubt it. Galaxy Quest has already been done, and aside from a few other memorable works like Red Dwarf and Hitchiker's Guide, comedy science fiction is a sparsely populated sub-genre for a reason - there's only so many lols to be milked out of it.

Anonymous Dr. Brooklyn March 30, 2015 7:06 PM  

I just made the mistake of skimming half the thread on that link. Wow. The circle jerk is real and painful to even glance at from a ways off.

Blogger Vox March 30, 2015 7:07 PM  

Gamergate has minorities in fact alot of silent but active american asians and american blacks, you know.

I am a Native American, Lee.

Anonymous Anonymouse March 30, 2015 7:37 PM  

"and deflecting Andrew Marston's usual nonsense"

WAIT. I thought you, Marston, his family and local police made a deal to keep Marston off the interwebs. Was this a feint or bluff on your part? Is Marston breaking his deal, and if so...where are the local police or your lawyer?

Blogger Vox March 30, 2015 7:41 PM  

WAIT. I thought you, Marston, his family and local police made a deal to keep Marston off the interwebs. Was this a feint or bluff on your part? Is Marston breaking his deal, and if so...where are the local police or your lawyer?

That's really none of your fucking business, is it? And no, it was neither feint nor bluff on my part. Have you seen Marston here since then?

It is not cyberstalking for someone to post their opinions on sites that are not mine. That's not saying he can't cross other lines, or be held accountable in other ways.

Anonymous Daniel March 30, 2015 7:42 PM  

Ha! SJWs are self-impaling! Like science!

Blogger Noah B March 30, 2015 7:51 PM  

Hey the thread's been going awhile so I hope you all don't mind my dropping in something totally OT. A few months ago in one of the American Sniper posts, a commenter named Ryan ATL mentioned the show Generation Kill and the fact that it was relatively unknown. So I checked it out, and I thought it was exceptionally well done. Probably not something to watch with the wife/girlfriend in most cases, but I think most of you who haven't seen it would like it.

Anonymous bw March 30, 2015 8:26 PM  

then openly mocking his Native American heritage

Because they don't give a damn about what they openly claim they do.
They are what they claim to hate.

Anonymous Trimegistus March 30, 2015 8:31 PM  

One thing I've noticed as I read lots of blogs across the political spectrum: the "right-wing" (for lack of a better term) blogs tend to have better commenter communities. You see actual discussion, disagreement, and debate.

On the "left-wing" blogs, not so much. Lots of vigorous agreement with each other, the blog owners laying down the law, and shaming language for anyone who deviates.

It's a shame. For a long time I've searched for a lefty blog which actually welcomes genuine debate. Not trolling, not flaming, but actual exchange of ideas. Nada. They're willing to transmit but not receive.

Blogger automatthew March 30, 2015 8:41 PM  

"Wait. I thought ..."

Three word Gamma tell.

Blogger mmaier2112 March 30, 2015 8:47 PM  

If Scalzi's fiction writing is as bad as his blogging and Twittering, then his utter failure in TV can only help the medium.

I am utterly tired of sniping cowards, overly impressed with their own efforts to be clever. It's not clever, it's pissy and annoying.

Anonymous trainwreck March 30, 2015 8:49 PM  

...but tens of thousands of my blog readers don’t.

But you don't know what "tens of thousands of [your] blog readers" think. You know what Nate and Josh and maybe 30 others think.

You also presume that each of your views/day is not Daniel clicking F5 repeatedly, because he's waiting breathlessly for some Bob K. Mandoism.

You also presume that a large percentage of your "blog readers" aren't just hear for the trainwreck.

Anonymous fartwreck March 30, 2015 8:56 PM  

I am hear to here the hear and now.

Blogger bob k. mando March 30, 2015 9:00 PM  

Kate Paulk March 30, 2015 6:21 PM
The SJW in-crowd is busily impaling itself without any help from me.


"Phrasing!"


trainwreck March 30, 2015 8:49 PM
because he's waiting breathlessly for some Bob K. Mandoism.



sweet. i'm in the lexicon now.

Ilkicon?

don't forget, "bob k. 'never been to college' mando".

Anonymous VD March 30, 2015 9:02 PM  

You also presume that a large percentage of your "blog readers" aren't just hear for the trainwreck.

Probably because the tens of thousands of books they collectively buy indicates your ridiculous interpretation is wrong. The site traffic is hardly the only data point.

We just released a book today. It's in the top 2,000 on Amazon, #1 in its category. Not bad for, what, 32 people supporting a fairly esoteric work.

Anonymous tranewreck March 30, 2015 9:36 PM  

It's in the top 2,000 on Amazon

And that would be ~30 sales/day. It also has Jerry Pournell and Martin Van Crevald's names attached to it, so don't equate sales with "on VDs side I HATE Scalzi!!!"

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 30, 2015 9:59 PM  

... aren't just hear for the trainwreck.

Christ!

Remember when we used to get literate trolls around here.

News flash! Even though the spell checker isn't flashing, it doesn't mean you've automatically picked the right word. Train wreck is two words by the way.

Demeaning to be set upon by morons.

Anonymous CK March 30, 2015 10:07 PM  

Vox is like the Darth Vader in the SJW's universe using the dark side of the force to their chagrin. Lol.

Anonymous CK March 30, 2015 10:15 PM  

"Because they don't give a damn about what they openly claim they do.
They are what they claim to hate."

This. It's just big talk with them that's why Obozo serenaded them like a ditzy broad.

Blogger James Beech March 30, 2015 10:40 PM  

There's a million of us just like VD. Who don't give a fuck about your judgemental snark, just like VD.

We're getting stronger everyday. We talk more everyday. You don't always even know we're there, but we haunt the same conventions you do, and we quietly judge you every time you mouthbreath about microaggressions or proudly declare your sexist racist thoughts about white privilege.

Blogger maniacprovost March 30, 2015 10:56 PM  

don't equate sales with "on VDs side I HATE Scalzi!!!"

What does disliking Scalzi have to do with reading books we want to read? Ok, I think this guy has sufficiently disqualified himself as "irrational gamma argued type 3".

Blogger James Dixon March 30, 2015 11:01 PM  

> Have they been deleted, or was vox responding elsewhere?

Did you click on the "Older Comments" link?

Anonymous NateM March 30, 2015 11:30 PM  

"Vox Day loves to play the victim, loves to fall back on his 1/8 Cherokee princess ancestory"

That is just offensive. Whatever percent native Vox may be, he's 100% Princess!

Anonymous Red Comet March 30, 2015 11:48 PM  

You could cut the paranoia around these SJWs with a knife, it's so thick.

They need to quit living on the internet and get back in touch with reality. I guarantee that would restore more of their sanity and perspective than all the money they've wasted to date on shrinks and blues.

Anonymous rubberducky March 31, 2015 12:51 AM  

These SJWs are mightily concerned about "engaging" with people, whatever that is. They don't even seem to know what that means, except to the extent that they profess failure at it. They eagerly fail to "engage" with everybody not in the warren, it would seem.

I for one can't imagine "engaging" with VD, as much as I admire him. Now, were he Keira Knightley, Megan Fox, or some such hottie, I might entertain it. But, in lieu of that, I'm happy to just read his commentary.

That's enough stimulation.

Anonymous IndecisiveEvidence March 31, 2015 12:56 AM  

Confession: Tranewrek is absolutely right. I just sit here F5ing for the next bit of spiraling narration from Doom's life or bob k mando dropping truth bombs. This is roughly 9000 times a day. Sorry I didn't speak up sooner Vox.

I am just impressed how Tranerekr was able to see through me so readily. What a clairvoyant fellow.

Anonymous jack March 31, 2015 1:06 AM  

All I know for sure is that I wait with barely controlled patience for the next Kratman Peace series release, the new one by Stephenson due out in a month or two, the sequel by Rolf concerning the intelligent Armadillo ship, the next Wright, Beale, and a handful of other DECENT writers, not these pink wanabes.
My literary needs are few. A decent story to escape into, an interesting non-fiction to spur the mind a little, things like that.

Blogger doofus March 31, 2015 2:40 AM  

"My guess is that they are SyFyction bad, Sharknado bad."

Don't go badmouthing Sharknado. It is a movie that is so consciously bad that it ranks right up there with some of the great cinematic achievements. Heck, if the SJW crowd could be that self-referentially camp about themselves, they would probably be able to actually keep the awards under control forever. But they lack both the introspective ability and the sense of humor that allows one to make fun of oneself.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 31, 2015 3:07 AM  

"The general vibe I got from most of the sf/f forums I belong to was that a lot of people thought Scalzi won for being Scalzi."

That is possibly the most damning statement anyone could make about the current state of SF/F.

Anonymous kh123 March 31, 2015 3:13 AM  

"Train wreck is two words by the way."

Don't be too harsh, given that they're likely mouthing it as "twain weck." This is a place of encouragement, after all.

Anonymous cheddarman March 31, 2015 8:55 AM  

"Kate the Impaler" sounds like the name of a confident kick ass woman. She should be welcomed into the ranks of science fiction writers.

Blogger FALPhil March 31, 2015 9:46 AM  

They need to quit living on the internet and get back in touch with reality. I guarantee that would restore more of their sanity and perspective than all the money they've wasted to date on shrinks and blues.

This is something I have noticed all over the web. The most vehement SJWs generally have the most comments. It is like they are glued to the keyboard, compulsively reading every comment and sifting it through the SJW filter.

However, I do not think that getting away will restore their sanity. I think the reason that they become SJWs in the first place is a lack of sanity.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit March 31, 2015 11:48 AM  

Vox's page views are somehow fake, #GamerGate is a bunch of sockpuppets
SJWs like tranewreck (sic.) live on lies and assume everyone else does. They just make shit up to match their feelz. They can't handle that reality does not respect their feelz and they will go to their (early, diabetic induced) graves denying what is is font of their own eyes.

One of the worst things about the internet is the echo-chamber effect that these retards get to experience that would never happen IRL since they A. Never go outside and B. Even if they did, they'd have no chance of finding anyone who agrees with their nonsense in a 100 mile radius (unless they live in SF or parts of NY).

Blogger Poor Guy April 26, 2015 6:14 PM  

It is just so sad and frustrating that the judges can't distinguish the "good" guys from the "bad" guys!

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