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Tuesday, March 24, 2015

Onward and upward

An ex-Gamma writes the fourth, and probably the most important, section in his Graduating Gamma series at Alpha Game:
There is no man on the planet more intellectually dishonest than a Gamma, as even an Omega has enough self-awareness to avoid being a buffoon at social event and will instead stay at home and play computer games. Everything from a Gamma is a con or a presented image, because behind that shell is a scared, miserable boy who uses whatever tools are at his disposal to build the Gamma Delusion Bubble. The Gamma Delusion Bubble shields the Gamma from somehow and some way ever being wrong about anything, as there is no being wrong about “something”, there is only being a wrong “person”. His identity is so tied up in his opinions about everything, including himself, that any slip-up is a catastrophe which must be avoided at all costs.
I've learned a tremendous amount from this series, some of which I've even been able to apply here. The most important thing for me has been the explanation of a) why Gammas like Scalzi, Brayton, and Myers flee from public debate when they are so otherwise argumentative and contentious, and, b) why it is almost impossible to get a Gamma to admit that he is wrong without him going through every definition in the dictionary, every pedantic nitpick, and every contortion in the Kama Sutra in order to avoid it no matter how obvious it is to you and everyone else.

Some of you have noticed that I've gotten increasingly intolerant of rhetorical arguments, particularly pseudo-dialectical ones, of late. This is because I now understand that there is no real prospect of normal dialectical closure if the other party shows repeated signs of being a Gamma and is engaging in customary Gamma argumentation. Chief among these signs are false summaries, digressions into motivation and psychological diagnosis, appeals to emotion, the production of ad hoc definitions, and the targeting of strawmen rather than the actual statements made. If you happen to be aware that you are prone to utilizing any of those rhetorical tactics, I would strongly recommend that you read the linked article, because you're not going to find much toleration for them here.

Labels:

178 Comments:

Anonymous p-dawg March 24, 2015 12:11 PM  

Are ad hominem attacks (the real kind, not just name calling) okay? I'm just asking, you know, for a friend.

Anonymous VD March 24, 2015 12:14 PM  

As long as they're accompanied by relevant and substantive arguments. They're not acceptable in lieu of them.

Anonymous Sevron March 24, 2015 12:15 PM  

One of the major turning points for me came when, walking home to the dorms one night, I saw a couple having fun on a park bench (she was standing on the back of it and he was holding her as she leaned), and I was so powerfully struck by a wave of hatred that I couldn't deny it. I couldn't lie to myself that I hated them for no other reason than they were happy and had each other, and I had nobody. And that made me a bad person.

So I started going to the gym pretty often. I told myself, well these stupid ungrateful bitches love men with muscles so much, I'll get some muscles. That's not exactly not being gamma, but it was a start for me. I guess it's like any other change, you have to hit rock bottom first and then want to pull yourself out.

Anonymous Aquila Aquilonis March 24, 2015 12:27 PM  

Are there any alphas on the other side?

Anonymous Toz March 24, 2015 12:39 PM  

Thought:

A lot of gamma behavior mirrors immature female behavior.

Pro/Con?

Anonymous Anonymous March 24, 2015 12:50 PM  

Jeremiah says: "so what you're saying is..... " LOL

Blogger Mrs. Blessed March 24, 2015 12:53 PM  

It sounds like gammas are narcissists. The disassociation from reality, the fundamental self-loathing, the inability to incorporate feedback all point to basic NPD. A wonderful book about NPD, for those inclined, is The Mirror Effect, by Drew Pinsky (http://www.amazon.com/Mirror-Effect-Celebrity-Narcissism-Seducing-ebook/dp/B001NLKWVM/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1427215003). I know, I know, I did not expect much from "Dr. Drew," but the book is remarkably both academic and practical.

Unlike most pop psychology books that discuss NPD, Pinsky's does not suggest that the narcissist is untreatable and must be expunged from the lives of friends and relatives. He discusses the origins of NPD (early childhood trauma) and provides practical advice for correcting narcissistic tendencies, especially in children and adolescents. A lot of this advice is similar to VD’s advice for treating gamma behavior in male children (“force him to admit that he was wrong when he was wrong,” “call him on his revisionist histories,” etc.).

If the behavior that VD defines as “gamma” is actually male narcissism, that might also explain why it reads as so very feminine, because NPD is much more prevalent in women than men. Anyway, I thought I would through this out there.

~~Mrs. Blessed

Anonymous Porky March 24, 2015 12:59 PM  

Ye suffer fools gladly, for ye yourself are wise!

Blogger skiballa March 24, 2015 12:59 PM  

I don't think it's that they're all narcissists, I think it's a side effect of moral relativism, extended adolescence, and some of the other aspects of modern society.

Anonymous Harsh March 24, 2015 1:12 PM  

A lot of gamma behavior mirrors immature female behavior.

It does seem that gammas are psychologically like females in many respects from their craving for status to their use of rhetoric and emotional assault in place of dialect to their general immunity to rational thought.

Blogger Bodichi March 24, 2015 1:15 PM  

@Sevron

Brother,

" I couldn't lie to myself that I hated them for no other reason than they were happy and had each other, and I had nobody. And that made me a bad person. "

You hated and used that hate as fuel to better yourself. From one Omega to another you are not Gamma any more. Keep using that hate until you don't need it anymore.

That hate can do amazing things.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 24, 2015 1:21 PM  

You're going to be annoyed with me, but I'm going to tell you this anyway...

You create a dichotomy between the rhetorical and the dialectical as if they were the only categories of argument, and yeah, the distinction is not without its uses. But what you forget is that there is a third category: the mystical. And I'm not talking about stupid New Age fake mysticism, I'm talking about the real thing. The problem with it of course, is that in strict terms mysticism is very hard to identify, falsify, or prove, so a lot of people, rather reasonably, come to the conclusion that it's bullshit. But it isn't. Some kinds are, but some kinds aren't, and those kinds are among the most valuable types of knowledge the human mind can possess. But they aren't easy to attain, and there are a lot of obstacles. One way you can tell a real mystic instead of a bullshit one, is by enquiring what sort of obstacles he's encountered in discovering the Way. It's a little like VD's trick of asking a martial artist how many bones he's broken. Real mystics have broken many spiritual bones.

Anonymous Jill March 24, 2015 1:22 PM  

"NPD is much more prevalent in women than men." Do you have stats? All the articles I've read (using peer reviewed studies) have said this disorder is more common in men. I was just doing some (amateur, writing-related) research on this. But more to the point, I doubt that all Gammas have NPD. There is undoubtedly a crossover, or that point at which the self-protectionary measures cross the line into a disordered level of entitlement and exaggerated self-importance.

Anonymous Sevron March 24, 2015 1:25 PM  

@Bodichi

That was a long time ago for me, about 15 years. I never become super studly, but I don't sweat moving boxes around and can pick up my wife easily enough. I did indeed use the hate to fuel me, and then when I didn't need it anymore, I put it down. At some point, it changed from being the heat that kept me alive to just this incredible weight I was carrying around for nothing. Actually, I acarried it around longer than I should have.

While in being anonymously honest, I would like to second the article's main point, about needing to admit when you're wrong and when you don't know. I was greatly helped out in this by my job. I'm an engineer, so if I lie about something, the company could lose customers, or tons of money outright, or somebody could get hurt/killed. When you're a new engineer, nobody trusts your opinion or takes your word for anything, so you must make absolutely sure that you're right before opening your pie hole. Being an Engineer By God was more important to me than anything else, so I would eat any amount of shit to not mess that up. And once I saw that being ignorant or wrong wasn't greatly looked down upon professionally- just make sure you fix it- I felt safer doing that in my personal life.

Anonymous Earl March 24, 2015 1:27 PM  

Aquila, you mean alphas that became gammas? I saw this happen in the military once. A superstar NCO that everyone looked up to, a real hard charger and great leader, got ratted out by his dependapotamus for adultery. He was busted down 2 or 3 grades and just went to hell, got bitter and useless, contentious and weak. Deluded. Pathetic. It was very sad.

Although there is room for a more Calvinistic response: the alpha cum gamma was never an alpha to begin with. Perseverance of the alpha doctrine.

Blogger Bodichi March 24, 2015 1:31 PM  

@Sevron

"Actually, I carried it around longer than I should have."

Amen. Once you are around people who genuinely likely you and those you can trust, you don't have to investigate everything as a trick to humiliate you. Once you become physically able those who would have singled you out for attack no longer do.

You are right, holding on to it too long becomes detrimental.

Anonymous VD March 24, 2015 1:32 PM  

You create a dichotomy between the rhetorical and the dialectical as if they were the only categories of argument, and yeah, the distinction is not without its uses. But what you forget is that there is a third category: the mystical.

Good lord, shut up already, Siddhartha. Are you off your meds or something today? Take it up with Aristotle, not me.

Anonymous Athor Pel March 24, 2015 1:40 PM  

"scoobius dubious March 24, 2015 1:21 PM
You're going to be annoyed with me, but I'm going to tell you this anyway...

You create a dichotomy between the rhetorical and the dialectical as if they were the only categories of argument, and yeah, the distinction is not without its uses. But what you forget is that there is a third category: the mystical.
..."



You're just bright enough to entertain the thought that a new idea in your head has merit. Good for you.

But you really need to think harder and longer on any ideas floting around in your head before you blurt them out in public. Do some research and actually find out what mankind has written down before you were born and then put forth the utmost effort to understand it. You might begin entertaining ideas of true merit thereby.

In the future ask yourself a simple question, is it a good idea because I had it or is it good on its own. Naw, that isn't the question, the real question you should ask is whether other people will give a shit about your new idea. If you have the even an inkling that they might not then you would be better off not sharing.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 24, 2015 1:51 PM  

They seem self disqualifying

Anonymous Trimegistus March 24, 2015 1:53 PM  

More and more I think that Gamma and "liberal" (or "Progressive") are synonyms. All the traits you describe about Gammas are characteristics of the political Left side. They place inordinate importance on displaying the correct opinions (hence their fondness for bumper stickers and Twitter), in a way that conservatives don't.

When a conservative puts six or eight anti-abortion bumperstickers on his car, it's because he's really really opposed to abortion and hopes to persuade others to his way of thinking. When a liberal puts six or eight different bumperstickers (Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Silence Fox News, Coexist, etc.) it's not to change minds, it's to advertise that the liberal has the right opinions.

And because so much status and identity are bound up in that display, they literally cannot tolerate any challenge. Hence the rise of "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces" and the thicker and thicker armoring of the liberal ideological bubble.

In short, liberal = Gamma. I don't know if there are conservative Gammas, but they are certainly less common -- maybe the right-wing equivalent are Omegas instead.

Blogger Doom March 24, 2015 2:01 PM  

Questions, many. The problem I have with this last, is knowing alphas (and sigmas). These latter are quite wrong, often. And, to prove points, they will drive this wrongness through the ranks, and enforce it. From their "fellows", right on through their women, children. I have seen a known incorrect idea, or principle, or other object chosen specifically because it is wrong, and known to be wrong by all parties, specifically because it is wrong. The point of the process is to prove that the king can have no clothes and still be king. How then, does this differ from the gamma.

And, please, if you can't keep up, don't step up. Either you see and understand or you are guessing. Yes, I have my own ideas. I just want to see if even one other has any clue. Don't even think to tell me it isn't a truth. If you do, someone should find your strings, cut them, and hold you over the fire to roast your feet, dumping you in a corner when your lesson is learned or they tire of the process. I would, but am just too tired too often these days.

Anonymous p-dawg March 24, 2015 2:04 PM  

@VD: Noted. They're more fun when delivered along with substantive arguments anyway. At least, that's my opinion. I'm a fan of the Gore Vidal quote, "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." Not sure where that puts me in the High School hierarchy. I suspect I'm still in the 'overconfident midwit' category, but that's something I've been working on overcoming for a while. I aspire someday to just plain midwit, content with my lot.

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 2:18 PM  

@Trimegistus
Gamma is not necessarily left-wing. The left-wing was coopted by Gammas after they infiltrated education and made certain ideas "right and wrong".

After Political Correctness came through and we were all told what were the right and wrong things to think, the party that sympathized most with the "correct thoughts" would gather all the Gammas since they're terrified of being out-grouped.

I've seen a right-wing Gamma, but they are rare compared to left-wing Gammas.

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 2:21 PM  

@Trimegistus
Continuing on with that thought, I wouldn't be surprised if Gammas flocked to the Republican party during McCarthyism, due to the fear of being outgrouped.

Then again, just because one is in the Republican party doesn't make one right-wing, so there is that...

Anonymous Salt March 24, 2015 2:28 PM  

Doom, there are people who think they are right and there are those who are; the former being most aggravating to the latter.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 2:29 PM  

"Chief among these signs are false summaries, digressions into motivation and psychological diagnosis, appeals to emotion, the production of ad hoc definitions, and the targeting of strawmen rather than the actual statements made. If you happen to be aware that you are prone to utilizing any of those rhetorical tactics, I would strongly recommend that you read the linked article, because you're not going to find much toleration for them here."

Serious question...

How likely is it that the person that resorts to this sort of thing as a default is self-aware enough to realize it?

Do gammas know they are gammaing?

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 2:30 PM  

"In short, liberal = Gamma."

no. plenty of conservatives are gammas as well.

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 2:34 PM  

"Do gammas know they are gammaing?"

They must know. I just don't see how they couldn't. I think where they go wrong is in believing that these tactics are far more effective than they actually are. They think they're being very clever and winning debates, but all they're managing to do is make themselves look like dishonest fools.

Blogger JartStar March 24, 2015 2:36 PM  

How likely is it that the person that resorts to this sort of thing as a default is self-aware enough to realize it?

Zero.

Do gammas know they are gammaing?

No. Though they are highly self conscious of their social status and so they know something is wrong, but not exactly what due to constant self deception. As soon as they leave their self deception bubble they are already on the way out of being a Gamma, though old habits are hard to shake.

Blogger Double E March 24, 2015 2:37 PM  

I've encountered a fair number of people who embody the Gamma behavior in their argumentative reasoning and debate style, but don't really fit the gamma mold in the other aspects of their life, at least not outwardly. Like they probably wouldn't back down from a physical confrontation. But they argue the same way - strawmen, moving the goalpost, total snark and disqualification instead of actual arguments. And of course a total refusal to ever say "i don't know" or "I was wrong"

Not sure why you would call these beings.

Blogger JartStar March 24, 2015 2:44 PM  

The point of the process is to prove that the king can have no clothes and still be king. How then, does this differ from the gamma.

Most certainly Alphas can and do make mistakes, but the big difference is that they are leaders by might, not right. A Gamma can only lead other Gammas unless by right. You can have a Gamma king, but never a Gamma leader of men.

Blogger John March 24, 2015 2:48 PM  

I wonder if gamma could present as a psychiatric disorder to doctors unaware of the psychosocial hierarchy among men, because the gamma pattern - narcissism, an inability to admit fault, rage at those who correct their wrong ideas, and clinging to delusions in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence - fits my adopted son perfectly. We've been taking him to the psych'ists for years. Their diagnoses have come back as clinical depression, anxiety disorder, PTSD, and bipolar, with hints of something worse. Perhaps the new drugs they try never work beyond a short period explainable by the placebo effect, for anything other than his ADHD symptoms (and yes, he demonstrably has that disorder, over-diagnosed as it may be for the convenience of the maleducated propagandists) because he's simply a miserable gamma bitch, and there is no medication to treat a personality. It would explain so much.

Anonymous Michael Maier March 24, 2015 2:48 PM  

Nate March 24, 2015 2:30 PM "In short, liberal = Gamma."

no. plenty of conservatives are gammas as well.


Too true. Aren't they usually Presidential candidates though?

But seriously, I've put as many conservatives into cognitive dissonance panic mode as liberals.

They get their "principles" from Rush Limbaugh. It's pathetic to observe how unthinking they are. They sure feel superior to Democrats, though.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 2:51 PM  

They get their "principles" from Rush Limbaugh.

Which principles are those?

Anonymous Salt March 24, 2015 2:53 PM  

The ones' stamped "DITTO".

Blogger JartStar March 24, 2015 2:54 PM  

Not sure why you would call these beings.

If they have a wife and kids and are otherwise pretty normal then they are Deltas with Gamma tendencies. A military analogy might work here: a high ranking Delta is a sergeant and a low ranking Delta is the private which people don't dislike, but can be a little annoying. They are all enlisted men with different abilities. The Gamma is lucky not to be dishonorably discharged and has probably already had a general discharge (or worse), and the Omega never volunteered in the first place.

Anonymous DavidKathome March 24, 2015 2:57 PM  

That describes most of the people who I can really remember arguing with me on the internet, because it takes so long to argue with them, correcting their strawmans, refuting new tangents, etc. I assume there is only a small percentage of Gammas, but they are more likely to get into an argument in the first place. Of all the people of that type, most were men, but I do remember one woman who was like that.

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 2:58 PM  

Which principles are those?

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANTEST ELECTION EVAR!!!

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 2:58 PM  

Too true. Aren't they usually Presidential candidates though?

No. How many presidential candidates have hideously ugly wives?

Blogger Bodichi March 24, 2015 2:59 PM  

@ Jartstar

Going to disagree with you moderately. I have seen gammas in the NCO ranks and the officer ranks. They are the ones who got where they were through working the warren, not through leadership.

Not sure if you are aware but females don't take the same PT test as men do. Some men get profiles that allow them to stay in the military and not take parts of the PT test. This can lead to people getting promoted who have no business getting promoted.


Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 3:02 PM  

"No. How many presidential candidates have hideously ugly wives?"

Is this a trick question? Does our current president no longer qualify as a candidate since he actually won an election?

Blogger JartStar March 24, 2015 3:02 PM  

Bodichi,

The analogy probably best works in wartime when it matters much more, but it is still imperfect. I have no doubt that Gammas know how to work in the system in the military.

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 3:04 PM  

Is this a trick question? Does our current president no longer qualify as a candidate since he actually won an election?

Well there is the whole Obama lambda theory.

And Michele Obama is more attractive than many black women for the simple reason she's not morbidly obese.

Anonymous Sevron March 24, 2015 3:04 PM  

@Student in Blue

Making ideas right and wrong used to really resonate with me. I would try to work out some nebulous bit of navel gazing to my much-more-normal brother, and I remember frequently reaching the end and saying "But j can't figure out which is right and which is wrong". Then he would usually say something like "Holy shit not everything is right and wrong people disagree about stuff all the time what's wrong with you" and I would quietly mutter "Everything is either right or wrong, it's only the stupid and ignorant who disagree grumble grumble".

Sorry for taking about myself, these articles have just really been hitting home. I didn't know I was gamma at the time, I just knew I had to change. I really think Vox is doing a big service here. I wish this had existed when I hit bottom, it might have made life a lot easier for me. It's one thing to know that you need to change, it's another to know why and in what way.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 3:05 PM  

Salt, Josh, those are slogans, neither of which is used by Rush. While they may, may reflect unthinking agreement, they may also reflect thoughtful agreement. More to the point, what principles does Rush endorse that you (and I include Michael here) that you find objectionable?

As for this one THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANTEST ELECTION EVAR!!! it can certainly be attributed to National Review types, but Limbaugh wouldn't even endorse Romney last time around. The most he could bring himself to say was that Obama was probably worse but it was hard to discern any difference between the two liberal candidates.

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 3:05 PM  

Josh, when was the last time you had your eyes checked?

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 3:07 PM  

Dude looks like a lady

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 3:07 PM  

"But seriously, I've put as many conservatives into cognitive dissonance panic mode as liberals."

Yep.

All ya have to do is criticize a cop.

Anonymous Athor Pel March 24, 2015 3:08 PM  

"John March 24, 2015 2:48 PM
... my adopted son
... drugs they try never work
... he's simply a miserable gamma bitch
... It would explain so much.
"



This comment is such a downer I distilled it down to the essentials. If you're having a bad day you can read this and know your life really isn't all that bad. Unless you're a miserable gamma bitch.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 3:09 PM  

"Josh, when was the last time you had your eyes checked?"

no one is saying she isn't manly... or profoundly reminicent of the Missing Link.

But it goes without saying that she is in fact more attractive than the giant blobs sliding their slippered feet across the floor of walmart.

Blogger Bodichi March 24, 2015 3:09 PM  

@ Jartstar

I agree, wartime promotions where results matter and not working the system would agree more with the framework you have outlined.

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 3:10 PM  

Josh, when was the last time you had your eyes checked?

Dude, 4/5 of black women are obese per the cdc.

Michele Obama is not obese.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 3:12 PM  


Michele Obama is not obese.


Just big boned

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 3:13 PM  

More to the point, what principles does Rush endorse that you (and I include Michael here) that you find objectionable?

Is Rush a supporter of the patriot act and the goal war on terror? What about warrantless wiretapping and torture? Fractional reserve banking?

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 3:14 PM  

Just big boned

To quote Eric Cartman:

BEEFCAKE! BEEFCAKE!

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 3:15 PM  

"Just big boned"

You know morbidly obese when you see it. She's not it.

Anonymous Porky March 24, 2015 3:16 PM  

giant blobs sliding their slippered feet across the floor of walmart.

Now why'd you have to bring Walmart into it?

Do you hate low prices and friendly service or something?

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 3:18 PM  

@JartStar

As a slightly different point of view, I don't think those particular men being mentioned are necessarily deltas with gamma tendencies, but straight up deltas.

They may argue like gammas but that's because that's how they were taught, and that's what seems to work. That's what is seen on TV, that's what is seen in movies, and as such that is what the average man is trained to believe is normal.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 3:19 PM  

Is Rush a supporter of the patriot act and the goal war on terror? What about warrantless wiretapping and torture? Fractional reserve banking?

A qualified yes (he believes that it gives too much power to gov't which is, naturally, abusing it), yes in theory...not as much in practice, no, sometimes, and no. He's an actual conservative and, while he may be wrong on some things, he's no liberal pretending to conservatism a la O'Reilly et al at Fox News.

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 24, 2015 3:22 PM  

"Good lord, shut up already, Siddhartha. Are you off your meds or something today? Take it up with Aristotle, not me."

I do have to admit that's quite funny, but I also have to say it's unfair. Your blog can be purposed for whatever you want, it's yours after all and not mine. But I always thought you guys were interested in good conversation, which is what interests me. If all you're interested in is unilateral declarations, then expect to see less of me. That's fine too but j'ai les regrettes.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 3:22 PM  

"Do you hate low prices and friendly service or something?"

if I was talking about some place with low prices and friendly service I would've said Dollar General.

Walmart is staffed by assholes.

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 3:25 PM  

@Sevron

I think it's more important to keep in mind that it's not necessarily "right vs wrong" being more important to the Gamma, but rather identifying what is "right" so that the Gamma is never found out to be wrong.

Consensus is the keyword for Gammas, as well as the moral guideline. The more Gamma the person, the more of a moral relativist they are.

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 3:26 PM  

You know morbidly obese when you see it. She's not it.

Okay, she's attractive in a not morbidly obese next best thing to the missing link manly sort of way.

Anonymous Trimegistus March 24, 2015 3:29 PM  

Josh: so what? You're sounding exactly like a Gamma liberal here, concerned about whether someone has the "correct" opinions. Does Rush back up his positions with reasoned argument, or at least impassioned rhetoric? Does he tolerate disagreement? The answer is yes to both. He may not be a pure enough conservative to suit you, but that doesn't mean you can exile him from the warren.

"Reasonable men may disagree" is a sentiment which has vanished from modern political discourse. When men concerned with politics were not womanish Gammas, they recognized that a man may disagree with you without being a bad person. Politics is after all a matter of priorities, and all men have different priorities.

It's only with the switch to the Gamma rabbit-warren style of politics, in which positions are no longer one man's reasoned (or foolish) opinions but a badge of identity that it has become impossible for men to have friendly political disagreements.

Blogger Rabbi B March 24, 2015 3:31 PM  

"If all you're interested in is unilateral declarations, then expect to see less of me. That's fine too but j'ai les regrettes."

I think you're already missing us.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW March 24, 2015 3:36 PM  

Never believe something until it has been officially denied:

Germanwings A320 crash not a terrorist act

Of course it was just an accident.

Blogger JartStar March 24, 2015 3:41 PM  

scoob,

Changing your handle to silly names or phrases when making a comment is buffoonery. When you engage in buffoonery don't expect people to take you seriously.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 3:43 PM  

" But I always thought you guys were interested in good conversation, which is what interests me. If all you're interested in is unilateral declarations, then expect to see less of me. That's fine too but j'ai les regrettes."

Scoob... what we find particularly grating is that you fein to criticize that which you do not understand... then accuse us of the same.

Anonymous Athor Pel March 24, 2015 3:49 PM  

"Porky March 24, 2015 3:16 PM
giant blobs sliding their slippered feet across the floor of walmart.

Now why'd you have to bring Walmart into it?

Do you hate low prices and friendly service or something?
"



Ok, now we know you live in Bentonville Arkansas.

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 3:56 PM  

Stilicho, I'm just going from memory, but isn't Rush still all in favor of the war on drugs despite his past drug use? Hasn't he trashed Ron Paul consistently over the years?

I still listen to him occasionally and I don't find myself disagreeing with him too often, but my impression is that he carefully picks his battles and prefers to focus on those issues where he is likely to get widespread agreement from his audience. Rush is, after all, operating a massive commercial enterprise, and alienating listeners would reduce his profits. He at least acts more conservative than some leftist puke like O'Reilly, but he is much more of an entertainer than a leader.

Blogger Corvinus March 24, 2015 3:58 PM  

"In short, liberal = Gamma."

no. plenty of conservatives are gammas as well.


Rabid neocons are a good example.

Anonymous GreyS March 24, 2015 4:01 PM  

I'm a member of a sort of unofficial club which has an online forum and this article and VD's summary perfectly describe one of the guys with whom I used to have constant run-ins.

He routinely snipes at several of the males as well as any of the females who don't agree with him, especially the females who call b.s. on his faux and pandering feminism. We got into it a few times and I beat him handily at whatever we were arguing about and ever since he has basically stalked me trying again and again to make me look bad.

After several frustrating discussions, I learned to not bother getting on the merry-go-round with him because he does all those-- refusal to admit being wrong, "false summaries, digressions into motivation and psychological diagnosis, appeals to emotion, the production of ad hoc definitions, and the targeting of strawmen rather than the actual statements made" etc. Now I either act as if he doesn't exist, off-handedly dismiss him, or ruthlessly blast or make fun of him. The reactions I get vary from shock that I would treat a fellow member that way (it is a very nice group of people), to a few joining in against the guy, to private messages of support and almost jubilation about smacking the idiot down.

I don't get mad anymore because I don't get frustrated trying to have an actual dialogue. Although I still sometimes want to fly to his state and punch him for not being a man.

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 4:01 PM  

@Nate
I'm more slowly getting annoyed with several pages of "graciously" bowing away from a good conversation despite being urged so by Vox.

@scoobius dubious
How is it that you rail against unilateral declarations yet back out when called upon?

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 4:07 PM  

"Ok, now we know you live in Bentonville Arkansas."

Not so sir... I can assure you it is widespread phenomenon

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 4:08 PM  

"@Nate
I'm more slowly getting annoyed with several pages of "graciously" bowing away from a good conversation despite being urged so by Vox."

What? You don't like the "I could totally own you right now but I'm not going to because it would be rude" routine?

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 4:10 PM  

People.. I will guarantee you there are great example of gamma in every political ideology you can imagine with every political position.

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 4:12 PM  

A qualified yes (he believes that it gives too much power to gov't which is, naturally, abusing it), yes in theory...not as much in practice, no, sometimes, and no. He's an actual conservative and, while he may be wrong on some things, he's no liberal pretending to conservatism a la O'Reilly et al at Fox News.

Thanks. I haven't listened to Rush in a decade, I remember him being primarily a Bush cheerleader.

Blogger Rabbi B March 24, 2015 4:14 PM  

"What? You don't like the "I could totally own you right now but I'm not going to because it would be rude" routine?"

Just a flesh wound! Let's call it a draw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikssfUhAlgg

Blogger Josh March 24, 2015 4:14 PM  

Josh: so what? You're sounding exactly like a Gamma liberal here, concerned about whether someone has the "correct" opinions.

Wtf are you talking about?

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 4:17 PM  

but isn't Rush still all in favor of the war on drugs despite his past drug use?
I don't know.

Hasn't he trashed Ron Paul consistently over the years?
He has criticized his foreign policy stance as naive, but I'm not aware of personal attacks. I do think he has specifically agreed with him on some economic issues.

my impression is that he carefully picks his battles and prefers to focus on those issues where he is likely to get widespread agreement from his audience... he is much more of an entertainer than a leader.

He has been a leader, in recent years, of the movement away from the GOP/RINO establishment. His disgust with gutless wonders like Boehner and McConnell is visceral, palpable, and audible. The man has a large soapbox and he uses it to shape opinion where he can. It will be interesting to see where he comes down in the GOP primaries. For nearly thirty years, he has urged conservatives to run as conservatives with limited success. You'd think that after 25 years of left of center presidents, some candidate would be willing to try it.

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 4:22 PM  

"He has been a leader, in recent years, of the movement away from the GOP/RINO establishment. His disgust with gutless wonders like Boehner and McConnell is visceral, palpable, and audible."

Good point there, and he does deserve credit for that. He seemed genuinely excited by Ted Cruz's announcement to run. But there are some things about Cruz that alarm me, like his hawkishness and his connections with Goldman Sachs. I don't get the impression that Rush even sees those as problems.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 4:27 PM  

I remember him being primarily a Bush cheerleader

He was. He is now thoroughly disillusioned with the GOP leadership. I get the impression that he's sick and tired of carrying water for RINO's posing as conservatives. He has said good things about Rand, Walker, and Cruz as well. He is firmly against: "moderate" GOP candidates, immigration (although he avoids explicitly denigrating legal immigration), taxes, spending (except defense), bailouts, welfare,special treatment for minorities, feminism, abortion, and (I think) Jeb Bush.

There's usually more to agree with than disagree and he's a useful ally.

Blogger SirHamster March 24, 2015 4:27 PM  

In short, liberal = Gamma. I don't know if there are conservative Gammas, but they are certainly less common -- maybe the right-wing equivalent are Omegas instead.

There probably are quite a few. White knights can be found amongst tradcons, and white knights are gamma.

Me, I've always been an American conservative politically, but definitely belonged on the gamma part of the spectrum for most of my youth.

Though when one considers that much of American conservatism has embraced yesterday's progressive innovation; perhaps that just reinforces your point.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 4:29 PM  

I don't get the impression that Rush even sees those as problems.

I think you are correct. With the exception of GS being a bailout recipient. Other than that, I don't think he has a problem with them.

Anonymous Viidad March 24, 2015 4:37 PM  

Rush is a traitor libtard. He actively opposed Clinton, then actively ran interference for Bush. Just another flavor of big government shill. I quit listening after I realized his "principles" were malleable according to which team was in power.

Anonymous VD March 24, 2015 4:39 PM  

How likely is it that the person that resorts to this sort of thing as a default is self-aware enough to realize it? Do gammas know they are gammaing?

I defer to the resident expert. Apparently not. The thing that is amazing is how long they will carry a grudge and wait to take their shot. That doesn't strike me as particularly self-aware behavior. Remember, they have unusually developed skills at self-delusion.

Anonymous Salt March 24, 2015 4:45 PM  

Rush is a traitor libtard. He actively opposed Clinton, then actively ran interference for Bush. Just another flavor of big government shill.

I wouldn't call him a LibTard by any means, but he has moved across the fence a few times in the past on some issues.

Rush's problem is that he's genuinely given the benefit of the doubt where it never should have been given. At times I think it's caused him great angst, felt betrayed after carrying their water. Rush is one of those who hasn't looked the truth in the eye. Rush still has hope where, given what's been on acceptable to the right offer from the Rs, none exists.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 4:47 PM  

I quit listening after I realized his "principles" were malleable according to which team was in power.

He shows signs of a road-to-Damascus enlightenment. He used to support the party line pretty consistently, but I think he opposed the no child left behind fiasco and the medicare part D expansion under Bush. I haven't heard anything but criticism of GOP leadership from him in years. The acid test will be how he treats a Republican President in 2017. By which time, you'll probably be known as Iixdad.

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 4:51 PM  

@Stilicho
Psst, I think you mean "viii".

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 4:52 PM  

This is all coming back rather slowly. I do remember Rush being a cheerleader for Bush in his first term, but IIRC he opposed Bush's amnesty bill in 2005 or 2006.

Blogger Doom March 24, 2015 5:01 PM  

Salt,

Bullshit. Everyone is wrong. It's a matter of how wrong, and success, or enough of it in one area, gives cover for the rest of the failings. I have shoved "wrong" right through, over, under, past, others, causing compliance until it became the new "right", before. I have done that to prove a point, to others or myself, or to give cover. My guess is that gammas just can't do that, preferring to simply believe they are right, though just as often they aren't anyway. Bleh. All hail the king, baby. As I said, if you can't keep up, don't step up.

Blogger Mrs. Blessed March 24, 2015 5:03 PM  

Hi, Jill! You wrote, “Do you have stats? All the articles I've read (using peer reviewed studies) have said this disorder is more common in men. I was just doing some (amateur, writing-related) research on this.”

You are right. In looking through my Kindle, I found this from The Mirror Effect: “…we compared our celebrity data to that gathered by psychologists Joshua Foster, Keith Campbell, and Jean Twenge, who administered the NPI to a very large cross section of people in the United States (2,546 participants). Their data, published in 2003, showed the average NPI score for all participants was 15.3, with the average American males scoring higher than females.”

I have been reading too many books on narcissistic mothers. :)

~~Mrs. Blessed

Blogger Corvinus March 24, 2015 5:03 PM  

He is firmly against: "moderate" GOP candidates, immigration (although he avoids explicitly denigrating legal immigration),

An annoyingly large number of Republicans are like that: legal immigration good, only illegal aliens bad. Because racist. In fact, Cruz wanted to triple legal immigration back during the last attempt at Congressional amnesty. There are only a few American analogues to European far-right immigration restrictionists, like Jeff Sessions.

taxes, spending (except defense),

Heh. Except "defense". If anything, that needs to be cut back more than even the Democrats have pushed for.

bailouts, welfare,special treatment for minorities, feminism, abortion, and (I think) Jeb Bush.

If jebbie is nominated, he'll fall right in line and support him, just like with every other Establishment bonehead the Republicans nominate. And if he's elected President, Rush will consider him untouchable, just as with W.

Anonymous JustAnotherGuyWitha1911 March 24, 2015 5:07 PM  

Michelle Obama isn't fat
nope, she's just big boned
there was was a CNN story all about about that
but, throw her in water
she'd sink like a stone
and Barry and Reg would finally have
all the time they need to be alone

"...even an Omega has enough self-awareness to avoid being a buffoon at social event and will instead stay at home and play computer games."

Christ, Vox, ain't that the damn truth. That shit just blows up in you face.

Thank god for the Trese. Bros. Now I never have to leave the house.

http://www.tresebrothers.com/

They make upgraded old school games for android platforms, kindle and the like, albeit somewhat quirky, and the difficulty scales up like crazy, the head dev Cory keeps the rule set somewhat opaque, but, man, some much fun. I like Star Traders RPG the best, but they have Sid Meir Pirate Game, a Shadow Run Game, Space Hulk game, as well as a 4X game that I am going to try next.

We are, indeed, living in the age of miracles.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 5:08 PM  

Psst, I think you mean "viii".

Lol. no I meant ixdad, but screwed it up. He works fast when he's not listening to the radio or producing podcasts and he's probably got one cooking already.

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 5:10 PM  

@Stilicho
He works fast[...]
That is true. I had to stop for a moment when I finally processed that that he's on his seventh kid. Yeesh.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 5:11 PM  


If jebbie is nominated, he'll fall right in line and support him, just like with every other Establishment bonehead the Republicans nominate. And if he's elected President, Rush will consider him untouchable, just as with W.


Well, that's conditionally testable. Given his treatment of Romney (basically "I oppose Obama, but I cannot support Romney"), I think you're wrong.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 5:17 PM  

Yeesh

That's a crapload of diapers...

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 5:19 PM  

Hey, 22 more to go and you can be xxxdad

Blogger Student in Blue March 24, 2015 5:20 PM  

That's a crapload of diapers...
Ba-dum tish!

Blogger rumpole5 March 24, 2015 5:27 PM  

I had to delve into psychological issues a great deal in my work. My understanding is that personality disorders are intractable, and if Gamma behavior is an aspect of a narcissistic PD, it is unlikely that such a one can change, except in the most learned superficial way. The fact that VD is taking so much time on these "Gamma rescue" posts gives lie to the notion that he is a genuine cruelty artist. He's the bonus medicus administering a dose of bitter medicine. A man of some hope and faith. Certainly more than I can claim. I have much more of an Original sin/Lord of the flies view of the human moral condition. It is refreshing to have that challenged.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 24, 2015 5:40 PM  

Stilicho: "...it can certainly be attributed to National Review types..."

Just checking: by a "National Review type" do you include the sort of person who sometimes works there for a while before getting cast out in ignominy, like John Derbyshire, Ann Coulter and Joseph Sobran, for having said something politically incorrect, or do you mean National Review "lifers" who will believe, say and do anything, to anybody, to stay within the National Review gang and not have to stand alone?

Anonymous Bill White March 24, 2015 5:45 PM  

Want a perfect lens into gamma behavior and to laugh your ass off? Ask VD why America should be for Christians and Whites only. He he responds, watch the logic and form of argument used. You'll feel a little dirty and slimy reading the slippery contortions, but it will be funny and instructive.

Blogger slarrow March 24, 2015 5:50 PM  

Well, go ahead, Bill. Ask him. Pin him to the wall for the erudition and enlightenment for all to see. Instruct us on the ways of the Gamma.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 24, 2015 5:50 PM  

Bill White: "Ask VD why America should be for Christians and Whites only."

Has the oppressed Red Man said that America should be for Christians and Whites only? Where? Can you give us a link to that?

If the Red Man did not say that, your calumny brings a tear to his eye -- but doesn't prove anything about his mode of argument, only yours.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 5:59 PM  

"Want a perfect lens into gamma behavior and to laugh your ass off? Ask VD why America should be for Christians and Whites only. He he responds, watch the logic and form of argument used. You'll feel a little dirty and slimy reading the slippery contortions, but it will be funny and instructive."

You fucking fool.

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 6:01 PM  

You fucking fool.

You got that right. Bill's brought the intramural squad. Hope I'm not out of popcorn.

Anonymous Bill White March 24, 2015 6:05 PM  

Titus. See "4G Coming to America"

Nate, calm....calm. You are so emotional.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 6:10 PM  

"Nate, calm....calm. You are so emotional."

No one is emotional. You're simply a god damn moron saying god damn moronic things. For fucks sake... you're talking about a halfbreed hispanic native american. he's more interested in Japanese and Italian culture than anything you would likely describe as "white".

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 24, 2015 6:10 PM  

"NPD is much more prevalent in women than men."----Don't forget about the lambdas.
"In short, liberal = Gamma." Think about how women like nice orderly colored inside the lines stuff and that is the Politically Correct kool aid that gets dispensed.

"When a liberal puts six or eight different bumperstickers"~Lesbians often have their entire car's backside filled with stickers.

"Michele Obama is not obese." ~Michele Obama is not female. Fixt it for you.

"Rush still all in favor of the war on drugs despite his past drug use?"~He was addicted to prescription pain killers not snorting coke off 14yo boys penises at the DNC convention. If he is still against drugs it means he realized it was a mistake, like alcoholics vs. Alcohol

"Not sure if you are aware but females don't take the same PT test as men do" ~Even with that they hold special department of Nursing PT tests so women can pass one to be allowed to be promoted, since they cant be promoted while flagged. The military also would send non Asian minority nurses that failed their boards 3 times to another state for another 3 tries. A 20yo woman and 50yo man could finish the run portion at the exact same time where the woman would pass and the man fail.

"It's a little like VD's trick of asking a martial artist how many bones he's broken."
Is that for your own bones or other peoples? Some martial arts have people hitting concrete or rocks to harden their hands. There are also iron neck and chest exercises. In many cases soft tissue injuries take longer to heal than broken bones with modern medicine.

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 6:13 PM  

Titus. See "4G Coming to America"

Funny how you can seemingly post to a forum yet can't do a simple cut and paste. Of what in "4G Coming to America" do you point at?

Blogger slarrow March 24, 2015 6:20 PM  

Vox, it might be worth a post (here or at Alpha Game) to consider how those of different social-sexual ranks react to being called a Gamma (if you haven't done one I've already missed.) My suspicion would be Alpha: conflict, Beta: cheerful disagreement, Delta: worried fear, Omega: depression, Sigma: contempt, Lambda: fabulous!

The contrast, of course, is to the Gamma-called-Gamma response of "ha, I'm so much better than you that I don't have to prove it, because you're the real Gamma here." Seen a lot of that in these parts the last few days.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 24, 2015 6:21 PM  

Bill White: "Ask VD why America should be for Christians and Whites only."

Bill White: "Titus. See "4G Coming to America""

4GW coming to America doesn't look to me to assert the position you assume, because there's a difference between who owns a piece of land (like a private park) and who is or should be permitted to be there. That the park is owned by whites and Christians doesn't imply a sign that says "only whites and Christians allowed in this park". Others, such as Indians in their reservations, may properly be allowed.

But, there's no need for me to argue what Vox's words mean; he can do so himself, and he seems to enjoy that sort of thing.

Anonymous Athor Pel March 24, 2015 6:40 PM  

" Nate March 24, 2015 4:07 PM

"Ok, now we know you live in Bentonville Arkansas."

Not so sir... I can assure you it is widespread phenomenon
"



Bentonville is Walmart headquarters.

Anonymous VD March 24, 2015 6:44 PM  

The contrast, of course, is to the Gamma-called-Gamma response of "ha, I'm so much better than you that I don't have to prove it, because you're the real Gamma here." Seen a lot of that in these parts the last few days.

Yes, "I know you are but what am I" is always an effective dialectic response, isn't it. They're such hapless status-chasers. You can literally invent a term and watch them jump through hoops trying to claim it applies to them, or doesn't apply to them, depending upon whether you indicate that it is desirable.

Here is the important question, Bill White. Are you a Flooper?

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 24, 2015 6:47 PM  

Ask VD why America should be for Christians and Whites only.

For fuck's sake! The man just read an article on Gamma behavior and his spinal reflex was to display it.

Chief among these signs are false summaries, digressions into motivation and psychological diagnosis, appeals to emotion, the production of ad hoc definitions, and the targeting of strawmen rather than the actual statements made.

"So what you are saying is..."

"What you mean is..."

"So what you actually think about (whatever) is..."

Insert. Strawman. Here. And just fucking pretend that's what he said.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales March 24, 2015 6:50 PM  

If someone ever came to you with the meme that the GOP hates the poor or that if you can buy a senator, you don't need a tax break, what's the proper rhetorical response to such drivel and what's the proper dialectical response?

Blogger Rabbi B March 24, 2015 6:54 PM  

"The man just read an article on Gamma behavior and his spinal reflex was to display it."

These Gamma-related posts are the gifts that just keep on giving. Truly remarkable - they're like Gamma-nip.

Blogger rumpole5 March 24, 2015 6:54 PM  

"there's no need for me to argue what Vox's words mean; he can do so himself, and he seems to enjoy that sort of thing."

Duhyathink? Thanks for the chuckle.

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 6:56 PM  

If someone ever came to you with the meme that the GOP hates the poor or that if you can buy a senator, you don't need a tax break, what's the proper rhetorical response to such drivel and what's the proper dialectical response?

I'd probably agree with them as I haven't seen much out of the GOP to indicate otherwise.

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 7:01 PM  

Dems pretend to help the poor with welfare, the GOP pretend to help them with jobs. Both parties attack private property rights, sound money, and freedom in general while supporting free trade, open borders, and other various forms of massive corporate welfare.

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 7:03 PM  

You could flip it one way, Emmanuel. Tell them the GOP loves the poor; so much so they enjoy making more of them.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales March 24, 2015 7:08 PM  

@Salt

But isn't that what the the dems do through high taxation and the welfare hammock?

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 7:12 PM  

Of course. Without getting into it, Noah B skimmed it for you.

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 7:16 PM  

Also, you could reply that if you can buy a Senator, you're going to get a tax break one way or the other. That's why our tax code is so complex. As just one example, a few years back International Paper made more money on renewable fuels tax credits than they did from normal operations.

Blogger Noah B March 24, 2015 7:19 PM  

Actually I don't think that loophole was written specifically for them, but the point still stands: the tax code is written with loopholes that the super-rich can take advantage of that normal people can't.

Blogger Corvinus March 24, 2015 7:22 PM  

"The man just read an article on Gamma behavior and his spinal reflex was to display it."

These Gamma-related posts are the gifts that just keep on giving. Truly remarkable - they're like Gamma-nip.


It's rapidly getting into "too many to keep track of" territory.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 7:24 PM  

"Bentonville is Walmart headquarters."

***chuckle***

why would think I would know that?

Blogger Salt March 24, 2015 7:24 PM  

Have some real fun. Write your (House) Congress Critter thanking him for his helping job creation in that you finally got a job at 30hrs/wk at min wage. Bet you get a bloviating letter back, yada yada yada extolling his hard work and how much he cares, and at the bottom will be a form for sending in a campaign contribution; return bulk mail envelope included.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 7:27 PM  

"Alpha: conflict, Beta: cheerful disagreement, Delta: worried fear, Omega: depression, Sigma: contempt, Lambda: fabulous! "

Remember that Alpha's can destroy a challenger in many ways. The Alpha and Sigma would both confront the accuser... but their techniques would range from punching him in the throat to simply smirking while subtly pointing out the two 10s hanging on his arms.

OpenID simplytimothy March 24, 2015 7:32 PM  

Chief among these signs are false summaries, digressions into motivation and psychological diagnosis, appeals to emotion, the production of ad hoc definitions, and the targeting of strawmen rather than the actual statements made.

So! You are saying that gammas can't comment rationally is that it? What the heck made you even consider writing such a thing? Pride? Malice? For the love of science and all that is rational show a little human compassion for your fellow man. Besides Rhetoric is Dialectic because both are logic. Get it? Logic=Rhetoric=Dialectic.

a crap, that's all I got. I was trying to see if I could incorporate all the markers into one comment. and I ran out of gas at the straw man argument.

cheers.




Anonymous Krul March 24, 2015 7:34 PM  

simplytimothy, you're such a Flooper.

Blogger S1AL March 24, 2015 7:35 PM  

"His identity is so tied up in his opinions about everything, including himself, that any slip-up is a catastrophe which must be avoided at all costs."

It took me years and years to catch onto this, and I still didn't understand how all of the characteristics went together until I read a few things on VP/AG and combined it with the Proverbs about fools.

Actually, that would be an interesting column topic: how Proverbs addresses this issue over and over again. Though that does poke holes in the idea that modern anonymity is primarily responsible. Those ugly facts are mugging my beautiful theories again.

Anonymous Stilicho March 24, 2015 7:36 PM  

@Titus. I refer to the "lifers".

Anonymous Harsh March 24, 2015 7:42 PM  

Want a perfect lens into gamma behavior and to laugh your ass off? Ask VD why America should be for Christians and Whites only. He he responds, watch the logic and form of argument used. You'll feel a little dirty and slimy reading the slippery contortions, but it will be funny and instructive.

Specifically what argument of Vox's do you find a "slippery contortion"? I could use a good laugh.

Blogger mmaier2112 March 24, 2015 7:48 PM  

Stilicho March 24, 2015 2:51 PM
They get their "principles" from Rush Limbaugh.

Which principles are those?


I'll take that as a direct question.

"principle" ... in quotes.

They don't have any principles. They hear Rush or their preacher or the local AM Repuke tell them what to think and that's what they think.

Which is why their self-perceived "superiority" over Democrats is so amusing to me. They call liberals stupid and lockstep voters without realizing they function in the exact same manner, just for the other team.

Anonymous VD March 24, 2015 7:58 PM  

Excellent! So Vox Day, in the interest of avoiding all things gamma, you owe me an apology for your rush to judgement and your abusive words towards me. I'd like a retraction of the assorted obscenities you used. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and spoke rather politely to you. You did not repay the favor.

No, you insane old whore, you're a troll and a cyberstalker. You've been banned from both blogs and you are trespassing. Now go away and stay away.

Specifically what argument of Vox's do you find a "slippery contortion"? I could use a good laugh.

He doesn't. The whole thing is his Gamma imagination. He's most likely Dr. Torch, who is banned.

Blogger Rabbi B March 24, 2015 8:15 PM  

" . . . who is banned."

Getting yourself banned from VP and/or AG may soon become another reliable Gamma identifier, right up there with "It seems you're saying that . . ."

What kind of special talent must one possess to get himself banned from here? Impressive.

Anonymous Varenius March 24, 2015 8:19 PM  

Somewhat OT: I keep running into a disproportional number of Gammas who are into neo-paganism (ie. Wicca and the like). Why might they be drawn to this?

OpenID simplytimothy March 24, 2015 8:21 PM  

simplytimothy, you're such a Flooper.

I had to look it up. thanks

@Vox

This gamma thing has been a great time saver and I appreciate your work in this area. I have a tendency to fixate on a statement and drill down on that until the dialectic shows it true or false while assuming good faith by my 'opponent'. By doing this, I would trap myself in gamma-land and would have to chew my way out, red in tooth and claw. By defining these markers, you have already saved me a lot of wasted thought engaging the type of people who cannot/will not reason in good faith.

Anonymous Feh March 24, 2015 8:22 PM  

I keep running into a disproportional number of Gammas who are into neo-paganism (ie. Wicca and the like). Why might they be drawn to this?

It is weak-minded feminine bullshit.

Anonymous Viidad March 24, 2015 8:40 PM  

@Feh

Yes. neo-paganism is usually feminist to the core. Mother Earth/Ishtar/Gaia crap.

BRING BACK VALHALLA!

Anonymous Viidad March 24, 2015 8:47 PM  

In regards to Rush, I admit - I haven't listened to him in over a decade except for short periods of time where I was at someone else's place and heard him talking positively about the Ryan plan to fix the economy.

My description of that "cure": pretend you're ten million dollars in debt yet only make $25k a year. You decide to quit picking up a cup of Starbucks on the way to work and put that towards the principle, then praise yourself for coming up with a brilliant way to reduce your debt load.

I need to start working "it sounds like you're saying..." in my arguments. Now I'm finding it everywhere and laughing, thanks to the series of Gamma essays. Always hated that wheedling tone. Not falling for it anymore.

"Paul Ryan, it sounds like you're saying you just don't understand economics, unfunded obligations and exponential equations... it would be really sad if people thought you understood WTF you're talking about and actually followed your prescription..."

Anonymous Viidad March 24, 2015 8:51 PM  

"lixdad"

Sounds bad, but could also mean I was up to 59 children. I could handle that; however, I'd probably need a few more wives.

And homeschooling would be a bear... it's already tough on my wife to manage teaching the core subjects, not to mention Latin and the Catechisms to our modest assortment of future leaders... while nursing a baby and homesteading.

Might have to buy us a maid or two.

Blogger Nate March 24, 2015 8:52 PM  

Its ok Viidad.. almost always you were using it to set up a joke. No harm in that.

Blogger Corvinus March 24, 2015 9:21 PM  

Well, that's conditionally testable. Given his treatment of Romney (basically "I oppose Obama, but I cannot support Romney"), I think you're wrong.

@Stilicho
I'll grant that Rush does at least make a show of being skeptical of Establishment RINOs at times, but the ability of Republicans to fall in line behind duh Preziduntt, if he has an R next to his name, has never been anything to bet against.

Blogger Corvinus March 24, 2015 9:23 PM  

Somewhat OT: I keep running into a disproportional number of Gammas who are into neo-paganism (ie. Wicca and the like). Why might they be drawn to this?

@Varenius
Simple: wicca is hipster, and hipsters are Gamma.

Anonymous Cinco March 24, 2015 10:00 PM  

"But what you forget is that there is a third category: the mystical."

Who are these people and why do they make me spit my rum out!?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 24, 2015 10:02 PM  

Rabbi B: "Getting yourself banned from VP and/or AG may soon become another reliable Gamma identifier, right up there with "It seems you're saying that . . ."

What kind of special talent must one possess to get himself banned from here? Impressive. "

No. All it takes is talking back, or responding to trolling.

Anonymous Trimegistus March 24, 2015 10:51 PM  

Wicca/paganism is also free of any objective moral code. It boils down to "do what you want but try to be nice" without any real specifics. Perfect for people who can't admit any failings but are also selfish and lazy.

Anonymous no one of consequence March 24, 2015 11:19 PM  

"No. All it takes is talking back, or responding to trolling."

Or being an old horny stalker, like gg/yttik/insanitybytes

Blogger automatthew March 24, 2015 11:25 PM  

slarrow: "Beta: cheerful disagreement, Delta: worried fear"

As someone straddling that divide, I can confirm your assessment. First reaction would be cheerful disagreement (le mot juste), but later I would do a little soul searching to see if I might actually be acting Gamma.

Anonymous no one of consequence March 24, 2015 11:29 PM  

You're banned, gg. Stop posting.

Blogger IM2L844 March 24, 2015 11:43 PM  

This was a fun read. A lot of Phil Millers (Will Forte in Last Man on Earth) showed up. Gamma-nip indeed, Rabbi B.

Anonymous n.o.o.c. March 25, 2015 12:15 AM  

Just ignore gg, everyone. Her comments go straight into spam, and yours in reply will get deleted.

Anonymous Gamma World March 25, 2015 12:16 AM  

Then what's with the "Only a gamma..." stuff?

Anonymous n.o.o.c. March 25, 2015 12:19 AM  

Gamma World: Then what's with the "Only a gamma..." stuff?

She has the hots for Vox, and she's trying to get his attention in any way possible. Probably she got fat again and her husband is ignoring her.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 25, 2015 12:23 AM  

I suspect Gammas can be pefectly successful and resonable as long as their reality distortion vortex isn't threatened. If nobody around them challenges the fantasy they've concocted in a way they can't ignore, they tend to carry on very well. They only fall apart when they're confronted with something incompatible with their self-image that they can't rationalize away. Of course, the lack of feedback will eventualy do them in, but until then, they can be functional.

Scoob, either lay off the hooch and sober up, or pound a few more drinks and pass out. One or the other please, in your current state you are insufferable.

Regarding Rush Limbaugh, I'll just observe that he is right about a lot of things, wrong about a bunch more. But overall, he's more on our side than against it. He may not measure up to your personal political perfection, but he probalby did more for traditional ideas than any of us commenting here, if for no other reason than he let millions of people know they weren't actualy lone voices wailing in the wilderness.

Nobody's perfect. Your heroes will all have feet of clay, so when they stumble, don't sneer at them in disgust. Help them get back up if you can.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 25, 2015 12:55 AM  

no one of consequence: "Or being an old horny stalker, like gg/yttik/insanitybytes"

Still not seeing either "special talent" or "impressive".

Anonymous Jack Amok March 25, 2015 1:20 AM  

I suspect Gammas can be pefectly successful and resonable as long as their reality distortion vortex isn't threatened. If nobody around them challenges the fantasy they've concocted...

Though (and at the risk of talking to myself) it occurs to me in light of a recent thread that Gammas will often self-destruct and imagine a challenge that never actually happened.

Anonymous kh123 March 25, 2015 1:36 AM  

" But I always thought you guys were interested in good conversation, which is what interests me."

Blogger Noah B March 25, 2015 1:56 AM  

Though (and at the risk of talking to myself) it occurs to me in light of a recent thread that Gammas will often self-destruct and imagine a challenge that never actually happened.

It's certainly looking that way isn't it?

Anonymous n.o.o.c. March 25, 2015 2:02 AM  

insanitybytes22, you're not welcome here. Stop commenting.

Blogger Noah B March 25, 2015 3:07 AM  

OT --

1st White House Recon

100 bucks says she can shoulder press more than the pres

Blogger Brad Andrews March 25, 2015 3:28 AM  

you're not going to find much toleration for them here.

I am late to this, but I had to note this made me laugh. This site is not known for its toleration!

Blogger Brad Andrews March 25, 2015 3:28 AM  

you're not going to find much toleration for them here.

I am late to this, but I had to note this made me laugh. This site is not known for its toleration!

Anonymous aeou March 25, 2015 4:26 AM  

Brad, it should be. This is one of the most diverse and tolerant blogs I know of. Where else are you going to get faggots, catholics, Muslims, Jews and white nationalists in the same thread? Maybe 8chan or some hate forums but those are lacking in moderation and a good signal to noise ratio. The only thing lacking here is a resident SJW.

Anonymous Smokey March 25, 2015 6:31 AM  

Where else are you going to get faggots, catholics, Muslims, Jews and white nationalists in the same thread?

There is a Muslim commenting here?

Who?

Anonymous bill March 25, 2015 6:37 AM  

"The only thing lacking here is a resident SJW. "

Also, a black person.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 25, 2015 6:50 AM  

Smokey: "There is a Muslim commenting here?

Who?"

Tommy Hass.

OpenID simplytimothy March 25, 2015 7:40 AM  

I have listened to Rush a handful of times since the Tom Delay era; I last less than one segment each time. The battle has moved well beyond him; he is doing an able job holding down the mess hall, but that is not enough.

OpenID cailcorishev March 25, 2015 7:59 AM  

I keep running into a disproportional number of Gammas who are into neo-paganism (ie. Wicca and the like). Why might they be drawn to this?

They've heard the women get naked at their rites and are generally an easy lay.

Anonymous Clay March 25, 2015 8:51 AM  

I'll bes blak. I am a Congo prince.

Blogger Rabbi B March 25, 2015 9:02 AM  

@Titus Didius Tacitus

Just being ironical. But I suspect you knew that already.

VD is pretty patient with the trolls who inevitably out themselves and manage to get themselves banned, usually by 'trying to work out their issues for our entertainment'.

'Impressive' in an amusing way. I mean it's a blog where folks comment anonymously (for the most part) under a pseudonym. You would think people would behave themselves with basic manners. I wonder how much the brazenness of some would diminish in face to face 'discourse'?

The visceral reactions of some also attests to the substantive nature of many of the discussions taking place here on a regular basis not to mention the high volume of traffic and the high quality of most of the discourse here.

Anonymous Anubis March 25, 2015 10:36 AM  

Smokey: "There is a Muslim commenting here?Who?"Tommy Hass.

A muslim from Germany would likely be turk or black. Do turks count as sand n_gg_rs?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 25, 2015 4:11 PM  

Rabbi B March: "But I suspect you knew that already."

;)

Anonymous Discard March 26, 2015 3:54 PM  

Were decent, honest White men to control the microphone, gammas would all be on our side. Safe conformity and a perch to look down on others are their real needs.

Blogger MrNiceguy March 27, 2015 7:07 PM  

Klingon Warriors would fight to the death for the opportunity to suckle blood-milk from her teats.

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