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Wednesday, March 04, 2015

The future looks less than bright

 So much for the self-esteem theory of education:
There was this test. And it was daunting. It was like the SAT or ACT -- which many American millennials are no doubt familiar with, as they are on track to be the best educated generation in history -- except this test was not about getting into college. This exam, given in 23 countries, assessed the thinking abilities and workplace skills of adults. It focused on literacy, math and technological problem-solving. The goal was to figure out how prepared people are to work in a complex, modern society.

And U.S. millennials performed horribly.

That might even be an understatement, given the extent of the American shortcomings. No matter how you sliced the data – by class, by race, by education – young Americans were laggards compared to their international peers. In every subject, U.S. millennials ranked at the bottom or very close to it, according to a new study by testing company ETS.

“We were taken aback,” said ETS researcher Anita Sands. “We tend to think millennials are really savvy in this area. But that’s not what we are seeing.”

The test is called the PIAAC test. It was developed by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, better known as the OECD. The test was meant to assess adult skill levels. It was administered worldwide to people ages 16 to 65. The results came out two years ago and barely caused a ripple. But recently ETS went back and delved into the data to look at how  millennials did as a group. After all, they’re the future – and, in America, they're poised to claim the title of largest generation from the baby boomers.

U.S. millennials, defined as people 16 to 34 years old, were supposed to be different. They’re digital natives. They get it. High achievement is part of their makeup. But the ETS study found signs of trouble, with its authors warning that the nation was at a crossroads: “We can decide to accept the current levels of mediocrity and inequality or we can decide to address the skills challenge head on.”

The challenge is that, in literacy, U.S. millennials scored higher than only three countries. In math, Americans ranked last. In technical problem-saving, they were second from the bottom.
This isn't surprising to me. Generation X had to understand its toys in order to play with them. There is nothing creative about a tablet or a smartphone. You can't do anything on it. It's basically a dumb terminal on the mainframe of the Internet. These digital natives are actually digital cargo cultists, comfortably familiar using things they don't actually know the first thing about.  As far as they're concerned, it might as well be magic.

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234 Comments:

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Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 3:46 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous millennial March 04, 2015 3:46 PM  

I'm a millennial, and although I'm doing pretty well for myself I had to laugh at Vox's last comment. It is true. Everything might as well be magic for young people.

Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 3:49 PM  

"The challenge is that, in literacy, U.S. millennials scored higher than only three countries. In math, Americans ranked last. In technical problem-saving, they were second from the bottom."

Reason number 6,782 to educate your kids at home with people who really care about how their kids make the letter "G" or detect a logical fallacy.

Anonymous Earl March 04, 2015 3:50 PM  

The hours I spent building a machine and then configuring windows using DOS in order to run The Elder Scrolls I: Arena on my parents Compaq...

Blogger SirHamster March 04, 2015 3:51 PM  

Everything might as well be magic for young people.

What, getting exposed to radiation isn't going to give me super powers or the ability to time travel?

Anonymous Axe Head March 04, 2015 3:51 PM  

Arthur C. Clarke's third "law": Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Anonymous Amok Time March 04, 2015 3:52 PM  

Well and Diversity!!

Blogger MATT March 04, 2015 3:53 PM  

I am curious to see how they controlled for race.

Anonymous Mike M. March 04, 2015 3:54 PM  

"These digital natives are actually digital cargo cultists, comfortably familiar using things they don't actually know the first thing about. As far as they're concerned, it might as well be magic."

Which means that the handful of engineers are going to be regarded as supermen. As an engineer, this may have some advantages. :-)

Blogger Midnight Avenue J March 04, 2015 3:55 PM  

I'm sure the answer is moar educashun. And the earlier, the better.

Mandatory free pre-school and grad school for all. You can never get them too early or keep them too long.

(Having worked for ETS, I'm fairly certain this will be an arm of their policy recos)

Anonymous JN March 04, 2015 3:58 PM  

That's Apples product model. Beautiful magic boxes of various sizes.

Anonymous dh March 04, 2015 4:02 PM  

I have to agree that Millennial are terrible people, just in general. We are basically ruined. The tinkerer spirit has been ruined, the idea of manliness has been ruined.

Anonymous Stilicho March 04, 2015 4:08 PM  

I have to agree that Millennial are terrible people, just in general. We are basically ruined. The tinkerer spirit has been ruined, the idea of manliness has been ruined.

I thought you were over 30

Anonymous Athor Pel March 04, 2015 4:09 PM  

Questions for the young programmers out there, answer one or as many as you want. Many of the questions are related so read them all and see if they motivate you to tell some story. Please don't constrained to answer them all in detail.

Do you worry about running out of memory?
Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?
Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?
Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?
Do you know what a memory leak is?
Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?
Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?
How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?
How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?
Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?

How many classes in college were you forced to learn a new operating system, new software and the course materials all at the same time for that one class? This question will likely smoke out some GenX folks.

Now for the old guys out there. Answer those same questions, as many or as few as you want as it fits your story.

I think the difference in answers will illustrate some things and be entertaining as well.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J March 04, 2015 4:14 PM  

I know a few millenials, working hard to get into or finish grad school so they can get the good paying jobs they were promised, and each and every one is full of angst and woe over their student debt and aren't sure how they'll pay it all back. They talk of delaying marriage and family because weddings and children are too expensive.

I've noticed this: it's all about the package for them. They want a nice/good/secure X, and a nice/good/secure X is expensive but since it will be nice/good etc., it's worth it no matter the cost of time, opportunity, or money. They lack an ability to critically reflect on or appreciate the true value of what they are buying with their time and money. Many of them are of limited intellect and yet are pissing away borrowed dollars on grad-level education in fields like psychology, social work, criminal justice, and teaching.

In some ways, I can't blame them 100%. They've been told most of their young lives that education meant achievement and led to wealth, and it's given them a distorted view of what is required for success.

Blogger S1AL March 04, 2015 4:14 PM  

I'm assuming Athor Pel is getting at the level of automation that's present in the modern programming specifically, and society generally.

And it's a little bit absurd. The little programming I did in college was all about putting the right pieces in the right places; there was almost nothing about understanding it.

Anonymous DT March 04, 2015 4:15 PM  

What, getting exposed to radiation isn't going to give me super powers or the ability to time travel?

I don't see why not since it can apparently cause abiogenesis and evolution from a single cell to a human being.

That's Apples product model. Beautiful magic boxes of various sizes.

I don't know how hard I would pick on them. UNIX and a rather nice C/C++/objC IDE are part of every Mac and have been since OS X's first beta release. You have to have the incentive to actually use them though.

Blogger KDeRosa March 04, 2015 4:16 PM  

I'd be careful about drawing any conclusions from this "study". The U.S. Has a large black and Hispanic population. The other OECD countries do not. Not surprisingly the scores have not been disaggregated. This obviously pulls down the US scores. The OECD has been playing this game for years with PISA. It's just another leftist game to make the left leaning countries look good and the relatively right leaning countries look bad.

Anonymous Stilicho March 04, 2015 4:17 PM  

What's with these attempts to define millennials more broadly than other generations? Boomer 45-65, X 65-85, millennial 85-05. Yet lately I see boomer 45-65, X 65-80, and Millenial 80-?. One recent article I read used this method of calculation to decrease the size of gen X relative to Boomers and Millennials in order to emphasize the importance of the latter. It seems a bit odd to define admittedly arbitrary generational cohorts by different time criteria.

Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 4:18 PM  

OH fun, a test:

(Old Guy)

Do you worry about running out of memory? Not until I am in my 80s

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?

I have never written code.

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?

Nope. Never wrote a program.

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?

Huh?

Do you know what a memory leak is?

See the previous answer.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?

Nope. see number 2.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?

Can't say that I have.

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?

I don't think ever.

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?

Not tall enough for this ride.

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?

See number 2.

How many classes in college were you forced to learn a new operating system, new software and the course materials all at the same time for that one class?

No computers in my classes.

Blogger Noah B March 04, 2015 4:21 PM  

Android tablets and phones do present some great possibilities for tinkerers, but I don't see many people doing that. Most people haven't even rooted their devices, much less loaded custom ROMs and programmed their own apps.

Anonymous Apollo March 04, 2015 4:23 PM  

which many American millennials are no doubt familiar with, as they are on track to be the best educated generation in history

I'm assuming they are declaring millenials as the "best educated generation in history" based on the amount of time they are spending in "educational" institutions and the overall percentage of the group who are attending those institutions, and not based on the difficulty of the curriculum or the actual standard of skills and knowledge they attain.

Anonymous Starbuck March 04, 2015 4:23 PM  

Generation X had to understand its toys in order to play with them. Vox Day

HAHAHA.. oh man, you crack me up sometimes. Gen X in general understanding its toys. They aren't much different then the mellinals. Not all.. but a LOT.

Do you worry about running out of memory?
Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?
Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?
Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?
Do you know what a memory leak is?
Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?
Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?
How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?
How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?
Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?


Good grief... Try that stuff in assembler.. heh.

Anonymous psuedotsuga March 04, 2015 4:25 PM  

Vox, your last sentences put the boot to the "moar technology for educashun" fetish that infects schools in the USA. It really is a cargo cult...as is a lot of leftist thinking (such as reasons for the 2007 housing market implosion, where the idea was to enable more people to "own" houses, since owning a house automagically gave you middle class values and thinking.)
KDeRosa's comments are also spot on-- the USA is a large conglomerate of cultures whereas most European countries are nowhere near the same mix of cultures and ethnicities and economic classes.

Anonymous JN March 04, 2015 4:27 PM  

@DT

That was meant from the consumer side. If you want a computer and don't want to learn how it works you can't get anything better than a Mac. If you really want to explore the depths, Linux is probably your bag. You want a little of both? Windows/PC.

Blogger kurt9 March 04, 2015 4:30 PM  

Was this survey controlled by race and social-economic background?

Blogger CM March 04, 2015 4:32 PM  

Not going to claim to be a brilliant programmer. I enjoy it. I'm good at logic and theoretical math (not great, but good). I also went to a small liberal arts college that killed its engineering dept the year before I arrived and the killed its comp sci degree my sr. Year.... so... this is more to give you info you asked for. I'm 31 and scored a 1300 on the SAT in 2001.

Do you worry about running out of memory?
no. There's a lot of it these days. Since I mostly code small applications with a business bent, not really a huge concern.

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?

No.

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?

I don't think i understand this question :p. In college, we had a brief assignment with actually assigning memory location, but I have never done this in practice.

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?

Yes. Even with my small programs, being inefficient or irresponsible with my resources bothers me.

Do you know what a memory leak is?
yes.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?
nope... actually when working at LM, I did. But my responsibilities had a minimal impact on cpu.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?
yes... because some other software designer made poor use of their resources... like EA...

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?

I actually have a program with a class and function library that I'm working on now...

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?

A couple times. Once at LM, and for my current program.

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?

No. I'm partially glad about this. I'm bizzarely organized in my code compared to what I've seen from other programmers. I thought it was a defect and have only recently realized its a good habit. However, now, I wish I had spent more time reading and understanding other people's handiwork.

How many classes in college were you forced to learn a new operating system, new software and the course materials all at the same time for that one class?

We learned c++ with a cygwin shell. Don't think that counts, but its the closest to a new os I can get.

Blogger YIH March 04, 2015 4:33 PM  

Here in Florida the talk is about curtailing the extensive publik skool testing (a legacy of Gov. Bush).
I'm sure race is part of the reason why, but it's also fatigue and because of skool district grading - which has declined in recent years across the board.

Blogger toadbile March 04, 2015 4:37 PM  

Just took their life skills test.
I feel skillful.
I can read a graph!
I can navigate a web site!
"Which of these employers is looking for night shift workers." Ooooh, that one! click.
Skillful.
I can also change a tire, change a diaper, evict a derelict, pluck a chicken and harvest peaches but that's difficult to test with an on-line survey. No idea how our youngsters compare to Europe's in actual life skills. This tested the ability to shop and surf the net and read a bit.

Blogger Noah B March 04, 2015 4:43 PM  

Decompiling is great, but deprogramming is even better.

Anonymous Jill March 04, 2015 4:45 PM  

This is why my first homeschool graduate tested in the 99th percentile in math and not that much lower in other subjects. Yes, I AM bragging. But I also knew it wasn't a great feat.

Blogger ChicagoRefugee March 04, 2015 4:46 PM  

So where can I go to see the break out by race, because I, for one, am not entirely trusting MSM reporters when they tell me the results are equally horrible across all demographic groups?

Blogger YIH March 04, 2015 4:47 PM  

OT: Have you seen one of these yet Vox?.
Something like it seems to have infected Canukistan as well.

Blogger CM March 04, 2015 4:48 PM  

I can also change a tire, change a diaper, evict a derelict, pluck a chicken and harvest peaches but that's difficult to test with an on-line survey.

Seriously... I can care for children, clean my house, and clean the u-bu-bend in my sinks. I cannot garden and keep a plant alive to save my life.

THAT is a life skill.

Blogger ChicagoRefugee March 04, 2015 4:49 PM  

which many American millennials are no doubt familiar with, as they are on track to be the best educated generation in history

Yeah, I'm thinking the word "best" in that sentence should more truthfully replaced with the word "most." Unfortunately, TPTB fail to understand that those two word are not, in fact, synonyms.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz March 04, 2015 4:53 PM  

I may need to get duct tape out for my head.

Here I was expecting some hard science, math, or analytical skills, but what I got was "identify which online job posting is looking for a night shift!"

ayeah...

Anonymous Jasper March 04, 2015 4:54 PM  

I looked at the seven sample questions on the OECD website. To me, they seemed easy, but it would also be easy to make a mistake on two or three of them. (On one question, it is not clear whether the test makers expect the answer to be 84,000 € / month, or 84.0 thousand € / month.)

Unfortunately, the test is filled with Blue Pill propaganda.

The test authors don't understand that longer education leads to delayed families, which leads to fewer children, which leads to the death of nations. Much of their ballyhooed "9% increase in GDP per capita" per "extra year of education of the population" is due to reducing the denominator (the total population), not increasing the numerator (total monetized production). The test authors don't say to what extent the "extra years of education" is just measuring national IQ, or is actually measuring benefits of education. Here is a quote from one of the sample questions:

"Tackle Gender Gap to Boost Growth

"Breaking down barriers to gender equality in education, employment and entrepreneurship would create new sources of economic of economic growth and help make better use of everyone's skills, according to a new report by the OECD, an organization of some 34 countries promoting policies to improve economic and social well being.

"Overall, good progress has been made in education, increased educational attainment is responsible for half of the GDP growth across the OECD over the last 50 years. Every extra year of education of the population leads to an average increase of around 9% in GDP per capita, says the report. More progress will be essential for countries to benefit from the economic contributions women can make and to not waste the years of investment in the education of girls and young women. Ensuring that more girls have access to higher levels of education is also key for developing countries.

"Employment rates are 13 percentage points lower for women than for men in OECD countries. As Figure 1 shows, gender differences in employment rates vary considerably in different regions of the world. Women are also much more likely to work part-time. Better and more affordable child care and more flexible work conditions are key to helping women to be in paid work or increase hours and work full time, says the report.

"Pay gaps also remain stubbornly high. On average in OECD countries, women earn 16% less than men…"

Blogger JartStar March 04, 2015 4:54 PM  

Since we are burning Millennials today I'll go ahead and throw my log in the fire. Millennials have made no significant impact in artistic design in culture. The Boomers gave us the psychedelic style, pop art, and the horrors of 70s design. Gen-X gave us the grunge look in clothes, graphics, typography, and now Gen-X has developed user interfaces like Metro (love it or hate it).

Millennials have given us tattoo art.

This is significant because youth movements typically drive art movements and they've contributed nothing new of significance. The entire retro and hipster look is simply a rip-off of other generational designs. The one small area of art in which strides have been made is in computer game art concept designs and many of the best illustrators today paint digital pictures and do a great job, but this hardly carries over into the culture at large. It's not that Millennials have given us bad art, they haven't given any at all.


Blogger frigger611 March 04, 2015 4:55 PM  

I've encountered a number of youngsters in the workplace over the past few years who were, at times, awed by my random displays of knowledge of history and science (which I regard as just slightly above average).
But at the same time they do not see the need in our modern age to "learn" stuff, or just "commit stuff to memory" when Google can give you any answer you want in 1 second (with a good broadband connection).
Some, quite literally, regard most schooling as a waste of time. They imagine that they will land a job one day where they "sit at a desk" and "work from the computer."
Beyond this they have no real grasp of how the world works.

Blogger RC March 04, 2015 4:56 PM  

I don't get as concerned with increased abstraction when solving problems. Back in the day, a good programmer had to know these things. Maybe the best still do, but a programmer can make a solid living and produce good apps without programming in assembler, without worrying about properly linking the objects to not exceed addressable memory, and without worrying that recursive calls will run the operating system into the ditch. Now, the truest of true geek is still going to want to know but you don't have to know to get the vast majority of jobs done. I can't run a slide rule yet the old codgers always told me it was important. I never missed it.

Anonymous neal March 04, 2015 4:57 PM  

Live outside ALB, NM. Bunch of kids in fifth grade complaining about seventh grade math, backed by the teacher unions.

What passes for math these days is something to bring tears.

Almost like, protesting against a chance not to stay stupid.

I was tutoring these dumbasses in calculus when I was in third grade. Gave up. When money runs out, the intelligence has to fend for itself. Civil service, politics. I miss when MIT and CalTech actually meant something. Even Oxford is just crap.

Blogger Noah B March 04, 2015 5:02 PM  

"Maybe the best still do, but a programmer can make a solid living and produce good apps without programming in assembler, without worrying about properly linking the objects to not exceed addressable memory, and without worrying that recursive calls will run the operating system into the ditch."

That's fine as long as you don't mind spending eternity in hell.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis March 04, 2015 5:02 PM  

I have to agree that Millennial are terrible people, just in general. We are basically ruined. The tinkerer spirit has been ruined, the idea of manliness has been ruined.

Not totally ruined, I've seen a marked increase in the desire to be a tinkerer and develop tradition manliness. It is still a very small percentage but it has grown within the generation. I mean, for all it's faults and self gratification that is what the whole manosphere movement is, isn't it.

Anonymous DT March 04, 2015 5:03 PM  

That was meant from the consumer side. If you want a computer and don't want to learn how it works you can't get anything better than a Mac. If you really want to explore the depths, Linux is probably your bag. You want a little of both? Windows/PC.

That was my point though. If you're so inclined, you can 'explore the depths' to almost the same degree on OS X that you can on Linux. For 15 years now Apple...thanks to OS X's NeXT heritage...has been shipping an awesome set of developer tools, and providing online documentation and training, for free to anyone inclined to actually learn how things work.

They beat Microsoft in this regard, at least up until the free editions of Visual Studio .NET were made available. And even then, .NET holds your hand more then obj. C (which is good and bad).

But you are correct that if you want to ignore all of this, you can. You can own a Mac for years and never touch Terminal much less Xcode.

Anonymous ivvenalis March 04, 2015 5:04 PM  

More like so much for the fungible-human theory of demographics.

I stopped reading the article and just clicked over to the study after the article used the term "PS-TRE" and didn't define it (it actually took a few tries to find the definition: Problem Solving in a Technologically Rich Environment). The tables on the ETS webpage are an absolute mess; they're not sorted and there's some strange terms and markup on some of them.

@MATT: They didn't publish it, but it says in the study that they plan to break down the data by various characteristics and release another document later. Bold prediction: ETS Study Reveals Hispanic, African-American Students Still Lagging Behind. The article, but not the study, suggested the usual breakdown, although American whites were still below the OECD average.

There is some talk in the study about the US number having the highest variance of any of the OECD countries. Yawn, except that they did not that the 90th percentile of US scores was lower than the 90th percentile of any other country except Spain; that's actually somewhat alarming.

Blogger Jonathan Bennett March 04, 2015 5:06 PM  

I run a small IT business, and have thought quite a bit about the ease of use vs actual user knowledge. I blame Microsoft for being a leader in the simplification trend. Apple has seen and raised their bet. It's a sad commentary on the state of computer science that most of the computer certifications are a joke. (A+ and the rest of comptia certs, as well as all the Microsoft certs)

In order to simplify the complex, something must be left out. The solution, then, is systems that don't obscure the details. I'm convinced that the Maker movement, Open Source software, and Linux are the only hope for the future of tech.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 04, 2015 5:07 PM  

There is nothing creative about a tablet or a smartphone. You can't do anything on it. It's basically a dumb terminal on the mainframe of the Internet. These digital natives are actually digital cargo cultists, comfortably familiar using things they don't actually know the first thing about.

If Steve Jobs had lived long enough to see the Apple Car built, it would have been delivered to it's buyers with the hood welded shut.

Steve Jobs secretly hated his customers. No one under any circumstances was allowed to tinker with his creations.

Apple drones on and on about creativity but the end user is completely locked out of the system. No genuine creativity required. thank you. But interestingly all Apple customers beleive they are quite creative indeed.

If you wanted real creativity in the 1980s forget about anything from Cupertino. You got a Commodore C64. Now that little giant did reward creativity in a big way.

There is a reason eastern Europe became the hub of internet crime. Programmers in the former Warsaw Pact all started out in the 1990s on C64 clones.

Anonymous ivvenalis March 04, 2015 5:11 PM  

I haven't actually had to code anything in years, but I used to do embedded coding. With that in mind:

Do you worry about running out of memory?
Yes

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?
No.

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?
Yes

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?
No.

Do you know what a memory leak is?
Failure to release allocated system memory.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?
Eh...no, not really.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?
No.

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?
I'm going to say no--only out of convenience, not necessity.

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?
Yes, interestingly as a result of modding MineCraft, which required working with decompiled code.

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?
No.

Anonymous Greg March 04, 2015 5:12 PM  

@toadbile

They were odd questions. But, with no preparation, I got it all right.

That's what really worries me - that US millennials can't manage a simple test like that.

There was also a bit of the usual SJW propaganda thrown - a nice touch.

Anonymous patrick kelly March 04, 2015 5:13 PM  

@Athor Pel re: programming

Much older than millennials ...

I'm not going to answer in detail. Long ago coding good ole' C for the PS1 I had to worry about learning to use the memory management written by someone else, and understand it enough to do so.

Today most of my development is MS Dev Studio ASP.NET C# writing Web UI for Windows Server OS app using an SQL DB. I don't have access to control much having to do with memory at all.

I do have to worry about running out of it occasionally. That's why I'm busy porting an older, 32-bit single threaded server app to 64-bit multi-threaded services. Our current stuff can and has run out of resources, and we have used some VM voodoo to work around it for now. My little piece of the pie still doesn't have anything directly to do with managing memory.


and that's fine with me...

Blogger Giraffe March 04, 2015 5:20 PM  

Mere competence is going to be handsomely rewarded with good salaries, and likely severely punished with high income taxes.

Blogger CM March 04, 2015 5:20 PM  

Apple drones on and on about creativity but the end user is completely locked out of the system. No genuine creativity required. thank you. But interestingly all Apple customers beleive they are quite creative indeed.

I think their definition of creativity is narrower than yours.

Artists largely don't do tech unless absolutely nenecessary to get the job done. Apple makes it unnecessary. So artist/I hate tech/throw paint sponges at my walls types get to be more "creative"

I would recommend a mac to my mother in law. Less for her to screw up. It's a testament to my engineer father in law's patience that he hasn't gotten her one :p

Anonymous Anubis March 04, 2015 5:22 PM  

I could have swore I read 1-2 years ago that if everyone in the US except Asians scored at the average for whites that the US would be 2nd place in math on the PISA international test. Are they counting Hispanics as white in this test because they where separate for PIS?

Blogger Northern Hamlet March 04, 2015 5:22 PM  

First question on that test and I closed the tab. You have to be kidding me... They did poorly on that?

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 5:22 PM  

Stilicho March 04, 2015 4:08 PM
I thought you were over 30



i wouldn't be too concerned about it, dh is ESL.




Midnight Avenue J March 04, 2015 4:14 PM
They talk of delaying marriage and family because weddings ... are too expensive.



bullshit. it's your duty to point out to them that there is nothing necessary or Christian about all that Bridezilla crap.

all Christianity requires is a public ceremony before the church. you don't even have to cater.

if non-religious, there is no reason to get married and there is certainly no reason to do more than visit a justice of the peace. and frankly, marriage for a non-religious man is the equivalent of putting a shotgun in your mouth and waiting for it to go off.

also, you can't get anything like your purchase price out of diamond rings. get plain gold rings and 'invest' ( as in, the true meaning of the word ) the saved money in the new household.

if the woman won't agree to this, if she demands her 'princess' wedding then he needs to kick that bitch to the curb. she's not worth a fuck.

and no, there's no discussion, there's no bargaining, there's no pleading. tell her, "There are more girls on the girl tree, I'll find one who is serious about starting a family."

if the couple are so poor off financially that they're having to "delay marriage" because of the cost of the ceremony THE BRIDE DEMANDS ...

*shakes head*



Midnight Avenue J March 04, 2015 4:14 PM
Many of them are of limited intellect and yet are pissing away borrowed dollars on grad-level education



a - i suspect most are more lacking in wisdom than intellect
b - regardless, grad school shouldn't even be an option if they are that poorly endowed in the intellect / wisdom departments.

yet another indictment of modern higher ed.

Blogger Rantor March 04, 2015 5:33 PM  

They no longer require the 1-10 addition, subtraction, multiplication and division tables in my county. Things everyone at my elementary mastered.

They stopped teaching cursive writing. They allow calculators in algebra, calculus, etc. My generation didn't have that option. I fear we understood the math better than the high tech kids.

I am thinking the conspiracy theorists were right. The whole US education system is intentionally dumbing down the population.

Blogger Nate March 04, 2015 5:40 PM  

" These digital natives are actually digital cargo cultists, comfortably familiar using things they don't actually know the first thing about. As far as they're concerned, it might as well be magic."

ding ding ding

Exactly.

touching an icon is not the same thing as making a boot disk.

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 5:40 PM  

"They stopped teaching cursive writing."

Yeah, what's up with that? This strikes me as one of the more odd omissions I've seen. Because, texting? What is so subversive about cursive?

Anonymous Sevron March 04, 2015 5:41 PM  

Steve Sailor digs into OECD numbers quite a bit. If I recall correctly, our races score higher than every other country's races (our Asians out score Chinese Asians, our Blacks out score Africa's Vlacks, etc), but we have so many Blacks and Hispanics that our averages are in the toilet. I could see about digging up links to his analysis, if anybody cares.

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 5:44 PM  

The future looks less than bright


of course, you are aware that Timbuk was being sarcastic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qrriKcwvlY

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 04, 2015 5:47 PM  

Anyone know if SAT's were required under homeschooling in certain states 15 to 20 years ago? I wonder what was required back then for the HS paper? Screw tests. I used to opt out of tests stating I am not prepared. I wasn't wasting any time on a pointless edu back then.

Yeah, yeah, jump through the hoops, rebel against the decadence, throw a fit over cultural disasters of the 1980's into the 1990's, avoid the idiot movies, stupid classes like multicultural public speaking 102 while shutting it all out so I could enjoy my youth.

Anonymous Anubis March 04, 2015 5:48 PM  

18. Why doesn't PIAAC report differences between minorities in the U.S. and minorities in other countries?

Each country can collect data for subgroups of the population that have national importance. In some countries, these subgroups are identified by language usage, in other countries they are distinguished by tribal affiliation. In the United States, different racial and ethnic subgroups are of national importance. However, categories of race and ethnicity are social and cultural categories that differ greatly across countries. As a result, they cannot be accurately compared across countries.

That answered my question. Please show me the nation where blacks beat anyone else in math if race cant be compared? I get that some black nations have lower average IQs than others but its really disingenuous.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 04, 2015 5:52 PM  

Speaking of the end of cursive writing, (a tool in creating your own unique handwriting, a signature is a work of art that is why any stamp of individuality must be ended per the murderers in the murder machine) the kids or cogs to follow are going to refuse to do the military or be unfit for combat.

Blogger SirHamster March 04, 2015 5:54 PM  

Yeah, what's up with that? This strikes me as one of the more odd omissions I've seen. Because, texting? What is so subversive about cursive?

Aesthetics, perhaps? Got to uglify everything for the Modern Man.

Blogger Marissa March 04, 2015 5:57 PM  

What is so subversive about cursive?

Cursive is an easy way to learn to write, especially for small, unskilled hands. I'll tell you a story my coworker told me. He has a daughter learning long division at a school which uses Common Core. Remember learning long division? You make the little box with only the top and left side? You put the usually larger number inside the box and the smaller number to left of the box. And then you do all the subtracting under the larger number? I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well enough. Instead of using simple subtraction, my coworker's daughter was taught some base ten calculating monstrosity, significantly more difficult than anything I remember learning. I don't think we learned base ten until my high school advanced second algebra class (back in 2004).

They don't want kids to learn these things. If you know how to do math, you'll be more successful in life, especially at things like taking out loans and credit cards (one hopes). They don't want successful learned students. It is basically a way to waste a whole lot of children's time not teaching them anything.

Anonymous Rhys March 04, 2015 5:58 PM  

Arthur C. Clarke's third "law": Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

That was stolen from Heinlein. It was part of the plot of The Day After Tomorrow AKA the Sixth Column, an early Heinlein serial that was later novelised.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 04, 2015 5:59 PM  

Forget the retail sales and hours of studying some kids do in prepping for testing. What happens when or if the younger gens cannot fill in a circle with a pencil on a test? What happens when they are lost without a cell phone and text speak? Can we even rely on them to fill in the blanks or fill in the circles?

Blogger Marissa March 04, 2015 6:02 PM  

Also, I am a Millenial. I was pushed very hard to go to college. I wasn't actually pushed to really understand what I learned or to appreciate knowledge as an end in itself. It was more like achievement unlocking in video games. You read X number of books to get the Scholastic prize, not to learn anything from the books (unless they're teaching anti-Western values).

If you think about it, public schooling is actually really creepy. You drop your child(ren) off for 7-10 hours a day (depending on sports) with total strangers, or someone you met maybe once or twice. Much of your children's interaction is with completely unknown adults, people you've never met and likely will never meet. People whose intentions you don't know and will never know. Parents put less effort into learning about their children's teachers and daycare providers than they put into vetting the babysitter.

Blogger CM March 04, 2015 6:03 PM  

Anyone know if SAT's were required under homeschooling in certain states 15 to 20 years ago?

I was homeschooled in MS in Florida. I was required to take the state grammar test (only one the administrator had known to get a perfect score... yeay Moby Dick dictation!) All state tests were mandatory. College prep (sat and act) were not required even in public schools. They WERE required for college admission.

Anonymous Sensei March 04, 2015 6:06 PM  

"You didn't build that" = "Our education policy was supposed to ensure you weren't able to..."

OpenID cailcorishev March 04, 2015 6:08 PM  

If you wanted real creativity in the 1980s forget about anything from Cupertino. You got a Commodore C64.

The thing about my C128 was that it was possible to know what was going on in the thing. I had the hardware manual and knew all the important memory addresses, the registers and flags in the CPUs (yes, it had two!), and so on. I understood the thing.

The systems I have now, I don't understand most of what's going on inside them. I'm not sure it's possible to, with all the different subsystems there are, many of which are proprietary black boxes. Even the keyboard is "smart." Then there are several layers of abstraction before you get up to anything you see on screen.

Of course, these new systems are about a billion times more powerful than that C128, so there's that. But I don't feel the same urge to tinker with them and try to understand them beyond what I need to use them as tools in getting work done, because where would you start?

Blogger MATT March 04, 2015 6:11 PM  

@Marissa It never occurred to me to describe it as "creepy". I imagine it would help when trying to convince mothers using a word women use all the time. The emotional connotations are too much to ignore.

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 6:11 PM  

"If you think about it, public schooling is actually really creepy. You drop your child(ren) off for 7-10 hours a day (depending on sports) with total strangers, or someone you met maybe once or twice."

Don't forget the bells which tell you when to stop paying any attention.

It's been a number of years, but I remember John Gatto addressing a number of these issues in works such as 'Underground Education', 'A Different Kind of Teacher', et al.

No one should let schooling get in the way of their education.

Blogger MATT March 04, 2015 6:15 PM  

Things are looking good for the Future Founders. Your honeschooled chikdren or perhaps grandchildren wont have much competition. Just sheep to be manipulated into fighting the next revolution.

Anonymous HalibetLector March 04, 2015 6:15 PM  

I thought you were over 30

I'm 30 and I'm a millennial. The birth date range differs, but most agree it's either 1980-2000 or 1983-2001 or some variation thereof.

I'm also a web developer and online game developer. This should be interesting. I don't really have a single story that ties everything together, so I'll just answer one by one.

Do you worry about running out of memory?

In games, hell yes. Doesn't matter which platform (mobile, flash, html5) if you're doing anything more complicated than match3 you're going to hit a memory cap. In web development, hell no. But I do have to worry about accidentally crashing people's browsers.

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?

Without it crashing?

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?

About as much as you can in flash and mobile. I know very little about memory management since the languages used on the web are all garbage collected, but I'm starting to learn. I've gotten disenchanted with all things internet and have started to shift to desktop applications. After 20 years of using a computer, my day to day experience is worse than it was 10 years ago. Everything's so much slower and it's bugging the hell out of me.

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?

Not really. I only profile an app if it's unusually slow, which is a high bar to clear on the web.

Do you know what a memory leak is?

My comp sci professor will be happy to know that I do indeed know what a memory leak is. It's where you allocate memory that's never deallocated, even after you've finished using it. The longer the program runs, the more memory it takes until it eats it all. Like pocky at an anime convention.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?

Both games and web, yes. The expectation on the web is for everything to be dynamic and behave as if it were native. That requires a lot of dom manipulation, which is expensive CPU-wise. Especially with modern day single page web frameworks.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?

Every day. It makes me jealous of Tex Arcane who recently stumbled over not one, but two HP 9000 Superdome supercomputers. They're outdated, but still impressively fast compared to a mac pro.

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?

Never. Every young punk trying to make a name for himself writes a library or framework. Web development in particular is drownining in the stuff.

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?

Documents? I know not of what you speak. ;) Not for hardware or compiled software, but source code base? All the damned time. Web developers are not known for their stellar documentation habits.

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?

No. Why in all that is holy would you have to do that? Did they lose the code in a hard drive crash, but were able to contact a customer to get the binary?

How many classes in college were you forced to learn a new operating system, new software and the course materials all at the same time for that one class?

Most of them. At various points, we were forced to learn *nix (don't remember which one), Solaris, C++, scheme, lisp, and java. And we had no language specific classes. Our AI class was in lisp. I forget which one was in scheme, but that class also required us to learn Solaris. Compilers was in java. Intro and Operating Systems was in C++. Compilers and Operating Systems were also the same semester because whoever designed the comp sci cirriculum at my college was a sadist. I went to an engineering college, so I was in good company.

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 6:16 PM  

Rabbi B March 04, 2015 5:40 PM
What is so subversive about cursive?



conservatives are no good at marketing.

tell the kids you're teaching them Subversive Cursive and that they can use cursive writing to communicate to each other in secret.



Marissa March 04, 2015 6:02 PM
If you think about it, public schooling is actually really creepy.



yes, yes, come to the Dark Side. feel our power flow through you.
[ /Emperor Palpatine ]

Blogger Marissa March 04, 2015 6:20 PM  

It never occurred to me to describe it as "creepy". I imagine it would help when trying to convince mothers using a word women use all the time. The emotional connotations are too much to ignore.

Exactly my goal. It is a type of social shaming that I think would be more effective than the "you spend more time on vetting the babysitter than your children's schoolteachers" logical argument. Many women are credentialists who think the university system and school district already vetted the schoolteachers, so that's a dead end.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 04, 2015 6:21 PM  

I think it must be election time again because another wave of Americans falling behind in schrewl has been released. More money for teachers who can't read past third grade level and more computers to download porn and rap videos for Rachel Genteal's 54 siblings is needed right now! 777 Trillion Dollars is just not enough to teach monkeys calculus Uncle Scrooge! Break open your Money Bin and show me the money honkey!

Blogger Marissa March 04, 2015 6:25 PM  

yes, yes, come to the Dark Side. feel our power flow through you.
[ /Emperor Palpatine ]


Heh, you got it, Darth Mando. My husband and I will not send our (future) children to public school and made this resolution more than 2 years ago (before we were married). He was completely homeschooled so it's a real thrill to hear about his upbringing.

I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning.

Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 6:33 PM  

"Aesthetics, perhaps?"

Certainly a factor. We live in a very impersonal age. Who writes in cursive on their computers? Just looks dumb.

When I think of cursive I think of handwritten letters, notes and other personal correspondence. Writing a letter by hand also takes more time and effort, which says something else about the nature of our relationships and what we think of one another. When we receive a hand-written note or letter, we inherently now (most especially today) that
this person expended some extra time and effort to do so.

I also remember when learning to write cursive was kind of like a right of passage of sorts. It was how the adults wrote. On the aesthetics side, there is something about seeing old letters written by grandparents, parents, etc. in their unique hand. Maybe neglecting the cursive is just one more way of exorcising the personal and the human.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 6:34 PM  

Cursive was crap. The moment we were allowed to text if we wanted, was the moment my hand stopped getting tired while writing. The only reason for the existence of cursive was running ink. You wanted to lift the pen from the paper as little as possible because of that. It's an archaic monstrosity that should only have value as a curiosity anymore.

Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 6:35 PM  

@Markku

Philistine.

Anonymous cheddarman March 04, 2015 6:39 PM  

"I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning." - Marissa

Agreed. You send adults into battle, not children

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 6:40 PM  

Finnistine

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 6:40 PM  

It's an excuse for sacrificing your children for fun & profit.

Blogger Azimus March 04, 2015 6:41 PM  

Marissa March 04, 2015 6:25 PM
I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning.


Sending untrained children into the teeth of evil as some sort of delusional witness should be a crime. These are the same kind of jags who will never witness to anyone under any circumstances and tsk tsk the people who do for making others feel uncomfortable. Horrible people.

Blogger Eric March 04, 2015 6:43 PM  

In some ways, I can't blame them 100%. They've been told most of their young lives that education meant achievement and led to wealth, and it's given them a distorted view of what is required for success.

The problem is blue collar jobs have mostly disappeared and the low end is swamped with illegals. If you don't want to sell drugs or live hand-to-mouth you have basically four options: college, the skilled trades, the military, start your own business.

I'm not sure going with the skilled trades is a good play. It's fine right now, but the illegals are already starting to depress wages for people doing, say, plumbing and electrical. And starting your own business without a lot of starting capital isn't something your average person is cut out for.

Blogger Azimus March 04, 2015 6:44 PM  

MATT March 04, 2015 6:15 PM Things are looking good for the Future Founders. Your honeschooled chikdren or perhaps grandchildren wont have much competition. Just sheep to be manipulated into fighting the next revolution.

There is an interesting assumption here: does homeschooling in the US work well to properly educate children, or does it simply work much better than the idiot factory? How to US homeschooled compare to German public schooled, or Japanese for that matter? I ask because I have no idea and want to know of the underlying assumption is correct. If the public schools are putting out slave drones, and all we're putting out is slave drone overseers... I guess I'd like to know that and push for a world class education for my children.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 6:50 PM  

Tell you what: If you guys get a running ink pen, or better yet, a feather pen, then write cursive all you want. Because those things make sense together. A pencil or a ball-point and cursive, don't.

Blogger Chiva March 04, 2015 6:51 PM  

"I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning."

Very much agree. My wife and I did not agree with that reasoning. We home schooled our children till they entered either Junior College or University.

Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 6:52 PM  

" . . but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses."

Yeah, because children are so naturally good at it. That 'philosophy' nauseates me every time I hear it. I am going to pass my children through the fires of Molech on the off chance that the pagans may get swept up in a revival that is due to my child's awe-inspiring witness. Pleaaaaazzzze! It's hard enough educating and instilling values into my children let alone having to compete the values of those mental institutions masquerading as schools. "Medication time!" No, thanks.

Children go to school to learn not teach and, believe me, they will learn. Let them learn to be lights under our tutelage. Ironically, their light shines much brighter by keeping them home.

Blogger SirHamster March 04, 2015 6:53 PM  

"Tell you what: If you guys get a running ink pen, or better yet, a feather pen, then write cursive all you want. Because those things make sense together. A pencil or a ball-point and cursive, don't."

Do you print your signatures? Using cursive is more than just the technology of writing utensils.

Anonymous Augustina March 04, 2015 6:54 PM  

They should all get trophies!!

Anonymous Will Best March 04, 2015 6:54 PM  

It's not that Millennials have given us bad art, they haven't given any at all.

The oldest millennial is 35 if you are being expansive and 30 if you are restrictive. You are comparing people with 2-4 times the time to create to people that are just getting started. And of course the further away you are from it, the less you are exposed to it.

---

They say it is controlled for race in the main article, but that doesn't make any sense considering they generally don't administer these tests to black nations. And of course Hispanic is not a race, so I suspect we are being dragged down by our invaders from the south.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 6:56 PM  

Sure, cursive can serve as a good template for developing your signature. So, there's that.

Blogger Eric March 04, 2015 6:56 PM  

...as they are on track to be the best educated generation in history...

Nonsense. They're hardly educated at all. It's depressing considering the time and money they've spent.

Blogger Azimus March 04, 2015 6:57 PM  

Eric March 04, 2015 6:43 PM
If you don't want to sell drugs or live hand-to-mouth you have basically four options: college, the skilled trades, the military, start your own business.


The college ship has sailed. Credentialism is devouring itself and will implode at some point, probably when the debt penalty outpaces the life-long earnings bonus, and we are on a very aggressive vector to cross that point soon.

The military ship is on its way down too. The military is down-sizing and down-costing. They act like they are desperate for people but its only because they don't want career military people anymore. Just today I was talking with someone with 6yrs in the army, around 28yrs old (not sure how old) trying to get back in who said the recruiter was not interested in them at all, even though they said they'd do anything.

Starting your own business: I don't recall our world rank, but I had thought I read the US was around the 50th best place to start a small business. The regulations and barriers of entry are staggering. My sister closed her Etsy store making "natural" or "safe" baby diapers because she was going to be required to test every lot of material by law for mercury content. She bought 30yds of material at a time from the local fabric shop, so she couldn't afford it and didn't want to be noncompliant with the law, so she shut down. That's just at the microbusiness level, I can't imagine small or medium business levels - the game is rigged for the players who are already at the table.

That leaves skilled trades. Not a great option but a comfortable life: some maintenance/machinist type guys I know work their FT jobs and buy junker homes on the side, fix them up and then rent them out. If you hump it in your 20's, you can be quite comfortable by your 40's and retire well - if the axe doesn't get you. Since the millenials apparently know nothing about technology, that may not be a problem. Of the four options you mentioned, for every man the skilled trades (and I emphasize industrial skilled trades) are probably the best way to go.

Anonymous The Millennial Falcon March 04, 2015 6:57 PM  

Millennials tend to be too hyper for the dominant artistic media. Our best stuff so far has been in the cartoon space. Pendleton Ward and the Brothers Chaps have shown real talent. But the Xers are still in their primes and dominating the scene.

Blogger Carnivore March 04, 2015 6:58 PM  

Millennials in the workplace training.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0o9clVQu8

OpenID cailcorishev March 04, 2015 7:02 PM  

The problem with cursive, at least in my experience, is that it's not like riding a bike: if you don't use it, you lose it. When are kids going to use it enough these days to retain the skill? Schools seem determined to have them do all their work on computer or tablet these days.

I'm enough of a curmudgeon to want kids to do it just because we did; but if they're not going to be writing on paper every day, it's probably a waste of time to teach it. My signature is two capital letters each followed by a squiggly line, and that works fine.

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 7:03 PM  

@ Marissa

I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning.

Especially when the pagan masses get to witness to these good children, using their hot chicks like Moabite women were used on Hebrew men.

OpenID cailcorishev March 04, 2015 7:06 PM  

The only reason for the existence of cursive was running ink.

The other advantage was that it's somewhat faster than printing. But if you need speed, you're better off typing or using some form of shorthand, so cursive still loses.

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 7:08 PM  

Eric March 04, 2015 6:43 PM
If you don't want to sell drugs or live hand-to-mouth you have basically four options: college, the skilled trades, the military, start your own business.


You forgot working for the ever-expanding .gov. Civil servantry abounds.

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 7:09 PM  

yeah, X'ers, we don't ask for much.

just that all the rest of you generations admit you suck.

Blogger subject by design March 04, 2015 7:10 PM  

I've been reading John Taylor Gatto and I've come to a couple of conclusions. Americans think that schooling is the same as education. So if a person has a lot of schooling he is somehow highly educated. My other conclusion is that if a child was kept from school, even if his parents make no attempt to educate him, he won't end up dumber than his schooled neighbors. The schools are designed to turn out stupid people, it isn't a bug, it's a feature as far as the designers are concerned.

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 7:12 PM  

> so cursive still loses.

Unless you are talking about a memento of some kind. Nothing printed compares to a hand written note.

Anonymous tiredofitall March 04, 2015 7:17 PM  

"After all, they’re the future – and, in America, they're poised to claim the title of largest generation from the baby boomers."

Baby boomers version 2.0?

"As far as they're concerned, it might as well be magic." - VD

Which explains why so many younger people don't seem to get that once you put something online it is FOREVER.

My neighbor's daughter aged 31 complained about how a naked pic she'd sent her boyfriend somehow wound up on a porn site. His response was forthright, "It's your own damn fault for putting something out there you didn't want everybody to see."

Anonymous Billy March 04, 2015 7:23 PM  

I agree. To much shouldn't be read into this. When a study is released who reveals the south lags behind in education, excels in infant mortality, highest stds etc. When the study is adjusted for demographics, the whites in the south are on par with Scandinavia. I think the report reflects our slide into the 3rd world via immigration and the shrinking founding anglo stock.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 7:24 PM  

The problem with cursive, at least in my experience, is that it's not like riding a bike: if you don't use it, you lose it.

Challenge accepted.

That's roughly how it always looked.

Blogger Crude March 04, 2015 7:26 PM  

U.S. millennials, defined as people 16 to 34 years old,

Since fucking when.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz March 04, 2015 7:28 PM  

@ Bob Mando

That is sigworthy.

Anonymous Billy March 04, 2015 7:30 PM  

I'm in favor of cursive. I think it was of a reflection of our architecture, clothing styles, artwork. It was/is an expression of a more refined, cultured and more moral people. It meant more than saving time and ink. I wouldn't like to see it pissed away, like we've done to practically everything we have that was worth a fuck.

Blogger grendel March 04, 2015 7:31 PM  

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/gatto/gatto-uhae-pre.html

Someone say John Gatto? I've been devouring this book over the past few days. It explains the who, how and why of our educational system's intentional enstupidation of the nation's youth.

And I'll tell y'all what, if you think you can blow off what's happening because you think only the vibrants are dragging the scores down, but your precious "White" folk are doing ok educationally: you're wrong as can be.

Blogger Corvinus March 04, 2015 7:31 PM  

They say it is controlled for race in the main article, but that doesn't make any sense considering they generally don't administer these tests to black nations. And of course Hispanic is not a race, so I suspect we are being dragged down by our invaders from the south.

@Will Best
If they don't have Hispanics explicitly mentioned separately, and only have "white" and "black", then yes, they lumped Hispanics in with whites. Like the crappy CIA Factbook stating the USA is 80% white, or the FBI's most wanted list calling Mexican drug lords "white".

And because the Hispanic population is much younger than the (European) white, this effect is amplified among the Millennials.

Anonymous Donn March 04, 2015 7:34 PM  

Cargo Cult. That is exactly it. My grandfather could build a house from laying down the lines for the foundation to finishing the roof and build all the furniture and cabinetry inside, electrical, plumbing, you name it. Same for working on his car or tractor or shoeing a horse etc. He was Heinlein's generalist plus he loved sci fi.

For modern kids it's all "Oomphel in the Sky".

Anonymous Billy March 04, 2015 7:37 PM  

I've read John Gatto. His books, videos had a measurable influence on my thinking. His thoughts on public education convinced me to move my youngins to private school. It was one of the best decisions.

Blogger Noah B March 04, 2015 7:42 PM  

"Cursive was crap. The moment we were allowed to text if we wanted, was the moment my hand stopped getting tired while writing."

Total agreement here. I refused to learn to write in cursive because it seemed pointless, and the only consequence was that I didn't get straight A's in the third grade. So in 1985, the real world value of learning to write in cursive was a small handful of jelly beans. Today I doubt it's even that much.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 04, 2015 7:43 PM  

Nothing on why England and Ireland are worse.

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 7:44 PM  

"My grandfather could build a house from laying down the lines for the foundation to finishing the roof and build all the furniture and cabinetry inside, electrical, plumbing, you name it."

Gatto talks about this type of thing. He spoke of a 'school' back east somewhere (I am in the West) where you spend several months building a house or a boat from scratch.

"If the truth were told, in my 30 years teaching in New York City, sometimes teaching prosperous white kids instead of Harlem kids, sometimes a mixed bag of middle class kids, I never hear a single student – white or black – speak spontaneously of the U.S. space program. When the Challenger space shuttle blew up there was a momentary flicker of curiosity, but even that passed in an instant. Going to the moon didn't matter, it turned out, though the government threw 100 billion dollars into the effort."

"A lot of things don't matter that are supposed to; one of them is well-funded government schools. Saying that may be considered irresponsible by people who don't know the difference between schooling and education, but over 100 academic studies have tried to show any compelling connection between money and learning and not one has succeeded. Right from the beginning schoolmen told us that money would buy results and we all believed it. So, between 1960 and 1992 the U.S. tripled the number of constant dollars given to schools. Yet after 12,000 hours of government schooling one out of five Americans can't read the directions on a medicine bottle.
After 12,000 hours of government schooling one out of five Americans can't read the directions on a medicine bottle."

"After 12,000 hours of compulsory training at the hands of nearly 100 government-certified men and women, many high school graduates have no skills to trade for an income or even any skills with which to talk to each other. They can't change a flat, read a book, repair a faucet, install a light, follow directions for the use of a word processor, build a wall, make change reliably, be alone with themselves or keep their marriages together. The situation is considerably worse than journalists have discerned. I know, because I lived in it for 30 years as a teacher."

- John T. Gatto

Blogger dw March 04, 2015 7:45 PM  

"Since fucking when."

1982-2004 are the birth years of Millennials. So really it should "11-33 year olds..."

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 7:45 PM  

@ Markku

Challenge accepted.

That's roughly how it always looked.


Who wrote THAT?

Stephen Hawking?

Anonymous Peter Pan March 04, 2015 7:45 PM  

There is an interesting assumption here: does homeschooling in the US work well to properly educate children, or does it simply work much better than the idiot factory? How to US homeschooled compare to German public schooled, or Japanese for that matter?

As a homeschooled millennial, I think I can answer that a bit. My education is far better than most of my peers. However, when I entered college I observed that often enough the Asian and European students had a slightly better grasp on mathematical and scientific fundamentals than I did. I believe this is in part because I lacked teachers who specialized in specific scientific subjects while homeschooling and had no one to explain the things which I did not understand. My teachers were, after all, my parents, one of whom had never gone beyond a high school education. Regardless, my own conclusion is that homeschooling is overall on par with European and Asian education, with the caveat that it is dependent on how the parents guide their children's studies... I say this because I have met some really dumb homeschoolers in my time.

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 7:47 PM  

"I refused to learn to write in cursive because it seemed pointless . . ."

Precisely.

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 7:49 PM  

Who wrote THAT?

Stephen Hawking?


+1

Anonymous bob k. mando March 04, 2015 7:55 PM  

My barely legible scribblings in crayon often cause people to ask, "do you do that to be subversive?" and I am forced to admit that no, it's because I am a homosexual retard. They always get uncomfortable at that point and hasten to assure me that there's nothing wrong with being "twice exceptional", whatever that means.

Anonymous RatDog March 04, 2015 7:55 PM  

I'm GenX. An electrical power engineer by trade. My boss, who is an old school structural engineer looks at my generation the same way.

Example: He still writes his own custom code in BASIC to do structural design. He understands all the ins and outs. My generation? When I do a load flow analysis, I don't remember the specific algorithm to do it that we used in grad school. I just plug in all the variables in EZPower or ETAP and voila, out comes the analysis for me.

Back in undergrad school, we learned some about embedded coding and assembly code. But now, when I design something out in the garage, chips and memory are so cheap I don't care at all about memory management or putting in the time to make it just so. It's a case of economics.

I remember a C++ class where we had to write some code to make a drop down menu. I was thrilled when I learned that you could just import a class to do it for you.

Anonymous Harsh March 04, 2015 7:56 PM  

yeah, X'ers, we don't ask for much.

just that all the rest of you generations admit you suck.


Heh, heh. Second.

Anonymous dantealiegri March 04, 2015 7:58 PM  

I hate to break it to some people, but bad programmers are the reason we have so many security vulnerabilities right now.
Automated Systems will never outfox stupid developers.

@AthorPel

age: 34

Do you worry about running out of memory? Yes.
Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it? Yes
Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote? sbrk
Do you worry about your program having a memory leak? Yes
Do you know what a memory leak is? Yes
Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU? Yes
Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower? Every day.
How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library? 100k+ lines of C/C++
How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed? Of course.
Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job? Over 2 man years wasted so far.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 04, 2015 7:59 PM  

I don't know why you're all so excited about this? All I learned in school was that most people are stupid. Nobody actually thinks about anything and most of their beliefs are just cliches they heard from older kids or the boob tube.
Most of my knowledge came from independent reading, hobbies and outside interests. The drivel in school was mostly crap. Charles Dickens used to be considered doggerel. He wrote serials in London rags which is why his stories are so ridiculously long and drawn out, because he was paid by the word and not the content. Back in those days most newspapers ran serials to fill pages because hardly anything sensational happened to interest anyone. Today Dickens is considered Literature!
Growing up my hobby of reading and collecting comic books was laughed at by my mother as a waste of time, and today they're the basis for multimillion dollar movies!
Progress?

Blogger Jason Rennie March 04, 2015 7:59 PM  

@AthorPel

I'll play

Do you worry about running out of memory?

Not currently but sure in the past. C# on a PC is great, C on a little Stellaris not so much.

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?

Yep

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?

Yep, I assume you mean built a memory manager that used brk or something not just Malloc/free

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?

Not on C#, but yeah in the past.

Do you know what a memory leak is?

Yep.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?

In the past yes. Not so much on a PC today.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?

Yep


How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?

I think so. I've written libraries.

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?

In the current job working with outsources code #£#¥¥%€%£##€%

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?

Nope

How many classes in college were you forced to learn a new operating system, new software and the course materials all at the same time for that one class?

A couple of times. Things were pretty standard either Unix flavour or Windows.

I'm 39.

Anonymous Harsh March 04, 2015 7:59 PM  

1982-2004 are the birth years of Millennials. So really it should "11-33 year olds..."

Not that there's a hard-and-fast rule to the breakdown of generations but I like dividing them into 20-year segments. Boomers from 1945 to 1964, X'ers from 1965 to 1984, Millenials from 1985 to 2004, etc. It also has the advantage of placing me in Gen X.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 8:02 PM  

Who wrote THAT?

Stephen Hawking?


+1


Haters gonna hate

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 8:03 PM  

" . . workplace skills of adults."

Indeed.

Just a little more Gatto:

Once upon a time, nobody of ambition would allow a son to reach his teen years without going on a long, solitary adventure referred to as “the grand tour,” a complex jaunt through Europe (usually), equipped with introductions to meet family friends. And bunk/feed with them for a spell. Lowlier families often exchanged kids, also if equally quite adventuresome.

During my school teaching years, I made great efforts to substitute adventures for each student for memorized schoolworks, with my enthusiastic blessings and far-reaching positive results in academic areas as well as personality; often a significant adventure opened a refreshing new perspective for the kid on what had been a stale, negative outlook—as if the adventure had unplugged the soul.

Denying our sons and daughters experience and adventures was the principal tool in the Prussian strategy to artificially extend their childhoods, making them easier to manage.

The immortal story of the David and Nicki Colfax family, four teenage boys, all of whom became world-famous by winning full-tuition Harvard scholarships without taking tests or even attending school. Instead they pioneered a self-sufficient life in the mountains north of San Francisco, building their own home, bringing water to it, insulating it, growing food, logging, building roads, rearing and breeding animals—all self-taught.

http://unschooling.com/homeeducationmagazine/we-need-adventure-more-than-we-need-algebra-by-john-taylor-gatto/

Blogger Vox March 04, 2015 8:04 PM  

I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning.

It is. And it's about as effective as the Children's Crusade was at retaking the Holy Land in the Middle Ages.

Blogger Nate March 04, 2015 8:04 PM  

Do you worry about running out of memory? Are you kidding? My first program was on a 128k device using sprites with a tape recorder for memory.

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it? No. That was never an option.

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote? 128k computer. programing in Basic. Are you kidding?

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak? Yes. Old habits die hard.

Do you know what a memory leak is? Yes.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU? Yes. Old habits die hard.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower? Yes. Tons.

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library? Yes.

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed? If I wanted to play a computer game... I had to create it myself.

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job? No.

To sum up...

Shut up.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 8:06 PM  

Shut up.

Not every question is a challenge.

Blogger Corvinus March 04, 2015 8:10 PM  

I've heard an argument from certain Christians who say they know the schools are really terrible, but they send their good children in as a witness to unwashed, pagan masses. That seems like really bad reasoning.

It is. And it's about as effective as the Children's Crusade was at retaking the Holy Land in the Middle Ages.


My take: it's definitely a bad idea while the children are young, but going to State U., or even limited high school, shouldn't pose a problem.

Anonymous Toby Temple March 04, 2015 8:11 PM  

There are times that I wonder if ever my hand will have the endurance to write paragraphs in a single notebook page.

Filling up a full bond paper size form with a pen is already an inconvenience.

Anonymous Rabbi B March 04, 2015 8:13 PM  

http://imageserver.moviepilot.com/hawkingwwe-aliens-asteroids-ourselves-stephen-hawking-outlines-biggest-threat-to-humanity.jpeg?width=640&height=402

That's it. Markku, I am putting you down for an ACAT (Assistive Context Aware Toolkit) this Christmas.

Blogger Noah B March 04, 2015 8:16 PM  

I would be very reluctant to take someone who has been homeschooled and put them into just about any high school.

Anonymous RedJack March 04, 2015 8:17 PM  

I have had a number of younger people brag that that they don't own any books, can't hook up their own TV's, and can barely fill up their own cars.

What is worse is that I have a new chem E, fresh out of college, who has never seen one of the basic refrerence's of the industry. Namely, Perry's Chemicial Engineering Handbook. When I asked about enthalpy, saturted steam, and how the boiling point changes under a vaccum, she said "We were told to just Google that".

Now, she is smart, and is catching on, but I have to teach here stuff I literally learned my freshmen year. What has happened?

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 8:19 PM  

bob k. mando March 04, 2015 7:55 PM
My barely legible scribblings in crayon



Comic Sans is bad enough as a font. how did you force your computer to default to a crayon text?

and aren't you competent enough to fix that?



bob k. mando March 04, 2015 7:55 PM
and I am forced to admit that no, it's because I am a homosexual retard.



you're going to insult me by calling me queer?

doesn't that violate your SJW mores?

oh, sorry, i forgot. you all don't have any morals ... you just pretend too.

now if you'll excuse me, it's time to insult some Gen Y's.

Anonymous Toby Temple March 04, 2015 8:21 PM  

What has happened?

This happened -> "We were told to just Google that".

It looks like my generation( or most of my generation) lost the desire to use our long term memory bin in our brains.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 8:21 PM  

Hmm. I'm almost certain that was Andrew.

Blogger Noah B March 04, 2015 8:24 PM  

I've seen quite a few hot chicks in engineering fields who knew next to nothing about it because there was always some sucker who would do the work for them. And why study all semester for a physical chemistry final when you can just cry?

Blogger Rabbi B March 04, 2015 8:24 PM  

"We were told to just Google that".

The OP in a proverbial nutshell. Oy.

Blogger Nate March 04, 2015 8:26 PM  

"Not every question is a challenge."

...

***skeptical look***

...

***places hand on sidearm***

Easy Finn.

Blogger James Dixon March 04, 2015 8:30 PM  

> ...just that all the rest of you generations admit you suck.

All generations suck. But some suck much worse than others.

Anonymous Jake March 04, 2015 8:41 PM  

Not sure if someone's already pointed this out, and I'm not even trying to challenge the point (most millennials are dumb), but we should keep in mind the source here.

This is a testing company, who probably exists solely thanks to mandatory schooling at US gov. schools. It's not exactly surprising that they'd find we need more money spent on US gov. schools. Most here would know is absurd, but thankfully the folks here aren't exactly representative of the population at large.

Blogger grendel March 04, 2015 8:44 PM  

"I don't know why you're all so excited about this? All I learned in school was that most people are stupid. Nobody actually thinks about anything and most of their beliefs are just cliches they heard from older kids or the boob tube."

That is the curriculum! That is the plan! The elite consciously decided to use school to make you lose faith in the intelligence and goodness of your fellow man so that you would acquiesce to state control. If most people are idiots, then they clearly need to be ruled over by their betters, don't they? That's how they subverted the American ideal of self-rule and self-determination. Follow the link, read Gatto, it's free. And it includes mild Calvinism bashing, and I know that will pique a bunch of y'alls interest

Blogger Corvinus March 04, 2015 8:49 PM  

@Noah B

I would be very reluctant to take someone who has been homeschooled and put them into just about any high school.

I suppose it would depend upon how skeptical of mainstream society, PC, Cultural Marxism, etc., the homeschooler has been raised to be.

I've seen quite a few hot chicks in engineering fields who knew next to nothing about it because there was always some sucker who would do the work for them. And why study all semester for a physical chemistry final when you can just cry?

It's obvious to me that the women are just trolling for MRS degrees.

Anonymous Jake March 04, 2015 8:52 PM  

"Follow the link, read Gatto, it's free."

It was ~ 9 years ago now that some member of the Ilk posted a link to Gatto's book. Which I read in full... I don't think he was right on everything, but it's a immensely valuable and eye-opening book. I think well enough of it that the dead-tree version sits in my library today...

Anonymous hapsbug peasant March 04, 2015 8:53 PM  

@Athor Pel

Older^w Middle aged programmer here. All but one answer is a yes (the exception is decompile).

Anonymous Atombum March 04, 2015 9:04 PM  

I remember when I learned to program a VCR. I was a wonder to my parents, as `radio` was just getting `legs` when they were young. A nephew mocked me last year for buying a .45 wheelgun while he got a .40 auto. Yet when we had the net go down one night, I had to show him how to load and watch a dvd on his mothers` laptop. He only knew about tablets.

Blogger Student in Blue March 04, 2015 9:15 PM  

@Athor Pel
I completed almost 4 years of college for Comp Sci before I dropped out due to no money. I still remember quite a bit, but I haven't actually coded in quite some time.

>Do you worry about running out of memory?
Only if I was trying to modify ROMs for console systems. But functionally I've never had to, because by the time I was starting doing my learning we were using C# and a bit of Pascal and even by senior year we hadn't touched on how to manually handle memory, which ticked me off quite a bit about the program.
>Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?
Yes because I was trying to see if I could, and what would happen if I did.
>Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?
No.
>Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?
Yes.
>Do you know what a memory leak is?
With a 95% surety.
>Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?
Not really. From what I understand the vast majority of programming that bogs down a computer system is all in the graphics and that was also something not touched on. There's no point in kvetching about the time complexity of the searching algorithm when it's only searching a small set and some moron is loading up gigabytes of bitmaps.
>Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?
Only personally, and for simulating purposes.
>How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?
Never during class. Another point of consternation, especially when I wanted help on "Hey when should I use X library vs Y library and how can I dig past all the clutter it has in its code to actually figure out how it does things?". I don't think DLLs were very well explained either.
>How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?
Never.
>Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?
I've never been hired for programming purposes. Oh, a networking job sure, and various other stuff, but never for programming.

I almost think my years at college were a waste. Almost, however.

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 9:20 PM  

@ Markku

haters gonna hate

We need to talk

Blogger frigger611 March 04, 2015 9:34 PM  

Calligraphy is an art form with the written word. Cursive writing is like a distant, less artful cousin, but it allows for much more fluid use of the muscles in the hand, fingers, wrist and forearm when compared to printing letters because you need to lift your hand from the page far more infrequently.
Also, there is something very personal introduced to the written word when one uses cursive rather than printing. There are various sorts of curls, swoops, and flourishes used in between individual letters that give character and render the form as a recognizable SIGNATURE.
I suspect that since our culture has traditionally, (and for centuries), respected property (and therefore contracts and contract law) a signature that can be recognized as coming from one individual hand has always been a very important feature.
If you cannot render your name in cursive you're a dullard. So what does the dullard do when he arrives at the end of the contract where he is asked to pen his name, and one line reads "sign" and another reads "print?"

What am I saying? If you cannot write your name in cursive, it is highly unlikely that anyone would ever want to enter into a contract with you. But then, you could always scratch a big "X" on the page and have some learned bureaucrat vouch for you with a signature of his own.

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 9:50 PM  

> I suspect that since our culture has traditionally, (and for centuries), respected property (and therefore contracts and contract law) a signature that can be recognized as coming from one individual hand has always been a very important feature.

My father used to tell me I should develop a distinctive signature. Instead it was a standard cursive type. It got more personalized as time went on, but not like the old guys did. They had way more flourish. Harder to forge.

Blogger James Higham March 04, 2015 9:56 PM  

Not just over there - it's a corollary to the dumbing down over here. A level, GCSE - dumbed down to keep up the quotas.

Blogger bob k. mando March 04, 2015 9:56 PM  

Markku March 04, 2015 8:06 PM
Not every question is a challenge.




be vewwy, vewwy quiet.

alphas gonna amog.



Markku March 04, 2015 8:21 PM
Hmm. I'm almost certain that was Andrew.



if so, i need to attract a better class of stalker.

Anonymous 0007 March 04, 2015 10:02 PM  

The point of learning cursive back then was to be able to read historical letters and to communicate one's thoughts to one's peers - get back to me on how well that texting thing works out for you when the electrons in the system decide they don't want to go there anymore...
That said back when I was doing my college work I discovered that I could print faster and more legibly than I could write in cursive. Of course all my work was done when the only computers around took up half a room and used punch cards and pin boards.

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 10:05 PM  

I see. What we call texting, you call printing. Ok, substute all my references to the former with the latter.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar March 04, 2015 10:09 PM  

grendel, I haven't lost faith in my fellow man, but most people are not as smart as those on Vox Populi. That's not a bad thing. Education that teaches people to read and write and do basic math is all most people need. This crap about trying to educate everyone so they can read philosophy and do calculus is some bullshit socialist utopian fantasy that is used to subsidize worthless government programs to uplift apes that are merely annoyed by facts.
Plato's Republic is a wonderful work of fiction, where society is ruled by a Philosopher King that guides a race of supermen towards perfection. However, in the real world most people just need a strong back a couple of acres of farmland and a loving family to be happy.
We are at the end of an era. The Weimar Republic of America is crumbling. At the end is either Hitler or Stalin. I prefer Hitler to Stalin personally. Freedom requires a price that most people are not willing to pay. In the future this will change, but now my main concern is survival for myself and my family.
The Roman Empire has fallen. This is the new age of barbarism. Be Conan. Crush your enemies, see them flee before you and listen to the lamentations of their women. Civilization will be rebuilt, but now is the Age of Heroes where only the strong and tough will live to tell the tale...

Anonymous The other skeptic March 04, 2015 10:36 PM  

Do you know what a memory leak is?

Isn't that when you have core memory and a mouse takes a leak in there so you get a short and the wires melt causing the metal to leak out the bottom of the case?

(We had a DG Nova in one of my classes and we had to key in the boot loader on the front panel ... these days it is 64-bit all the way suckers! Well, except for the the occasional FPGA things for fun.)

Anonymous The other skeptic March 04, 2015 10:38 PM  

I see. What we call texting, you call printing.

So what do you call Sexting? Penthouse?

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 10:39 PM  

Markku March 04, 2015 8:21 PM
Hmm. I'm almost certain that was Andrew.


Isn't he supposed to be incarcerated or something?
Who cares if he is a gimp. Let him be a gimp in lockup.

Anonymous Discard March 04, 2015 10:43 PM  

My father was a draftsman who had beautiful printing, so as my father's son, I refused to learn cursive. But when I was in the service, to my surprise, he wrote to me in a neat and legible cursive. To him, printing was business and cursive was personal. It was one of the beauties of civilization. Clearly, it has no place in America anymore.

Anonymous Discard March 04, 2015 10:47 PM  

I passed my math teacher's certification test with a pencil. When students brought calculators, I forbade them. Don't think I could get away with than nowadays.

Anonymous Anonymous March 04, 2015 10:47 PM  

What is this! The world of specialization! What happened with "Master of All Trades but Master Of Non?

Anonymous Discard March 04, 2015 10:53 PM  

That's "Jack of all trades".

Anonymous Discard March 04, 2015 10:55 PM  

Any social statistics that do not sort by race, including Hispanic, are deliberate deceptions.
Which is not to say that Whites kids are getting an education worthy of the name.

Anonymous dh March 04, 2015 11:01 PM  

Maybe I am not Millenial. According to Wikipedia, I was born right at the end of Generation X. I guess this is good then?

Blogger Markku March 04, 2015 11:04 PM  

Quote: They looked at race – white and Asian Americans did better, but still fell behind similar top performers in other countries and below the OECD average.

The Hispanic hypothesis doesn't work, because there are no Hispanic Asians.

Anonymous Soup zen0 March 04, 2015 11:06 PM  

Also, that is "Master of None"

No soup for you.

Anonymous zen0 March 04, 2015 11:29 PM  

OT.......... Ethiopian road system

Libertarian Traffic Control

And no one gets killed.

Blogger Student in Blue March 04, 2015 11:37 PM  

Link missing, zen0.

Blogger Outlaw X March 04, 2015 11:43 PM  

About 15 years ago a friend handed me a note with directions and he used printing. I said what's this printing sh*t we back in third grade. He told me at his work some of them had problems reading cursive. I just shook my head and forgot about it. As time went on Working for the government I started getting complaints about my writing and my boss told me it was the cursive, some of the new people (minorities) had problems reading it. Now I have been printing so long I don't know if I can still write cursive?

Blogger WildClaw March 04, 2015 11:46 PM  

Hmmm. I go to a public school with a slightly over 80% white population. It's not too bad, but for some reason a lot of the kids complain that it's too hard. I suppose that's a good thing, so it will at least be challenging academically and will at least dissuade the dumb kids from taking AP classes. Anyway, the English and Social Studies Department are dominated by leftists. I chose not to take AP Macroeconmics because frankly, I didn't want to use Krugman's textbook. The assigned reading all has an obvious leftist slant to it, but I'll do what the teachers want me to do anyway. I had given up on the idea that the main idea of school is education. History classes (and to a limited extent, honors English) are usually fine, but most of the classes focus on pure memorization instead of critical thinking. That knowledge can be easily forgotten after the test. Even with English and history, it is still much safer to echo the teacher's opinion on your essay (grade-wise, at least). Schooling is merely a stepping stone for college. Students don't necessarily study to learn things, but rather to improve their chances of getting into that college of their dreams.

As to the question of putting religious kids into secular public schools, they're definitely dangers. Teachers are seen as authority figures and since they went to college, they must know a lot! From both teachers and peers, the student might be tricked into thinking that secular leftism will liberate them from the "bonds" of Traditional Christian society. Since I grew up in the South, most of my peers were Christian REpublicans, so I didn't go full leftism until 8th or 9th grade. But by the end of my freshman year, I started reading more conservative articles and found that those ideas, although not pretty, had more truth in the world. To be honest, my faith and adherence to the Bible was the only thing holding me back from being a full out liberal.

I can't program worth shi*, so that's a no to all of Athor's questions.

American millenials are definitely aren't the best educated. Maybe their education cost the most, but I don't see much benefits. As I've said before, everything learned is forgotten after the final exam (except for math and English for some kids). This doesn't only apply to minorities. It applies to white kids too. The average composition of an AP class is 55% white, 10% black, ~5% Hispanic, and about 30% Asian at my school. Why are whites underrepresented in AP classes? I think it's because the problem with education applies to them too. When schooling and PC ideas take priority over a well-rounded education, msot kids don't get educated. In my German class, the evidence is rampant. I'm in my 3rd year of German and there are some kids who forget to put verb in 2nd position, forget to conjugate verbs, or forget grammar concepts learned 2 months ago. This really convinced me that kids wanted As, not education.

As for my generation, feminism and PC have made it social suicide to openly express my opinions, and I can only wonder how many of my peers share my views. SLightly OT, but it annoys the crap out of me when I see kids attached to their phones 24/7. Why can't they find someone to talk to face to face?

Anonymous Jack Amok March 04, 2015 11:46 PM  

Since we are burning Millennials today I'll go ahead and throw my log in the fire. Millennials have made no significant impact in artistic design in culture.

Y'know, now that you mention it, seems like most innovation in music is coming from Gen-Xers in their 40's.

The oldest millennial is 35 if you are being expansive and 30 if you are restrictive.

Elvis was 2 days past his 21st birthday when he recorded "Heartbreak Hotel." Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were 21 when they recorded "Satisfaction." Cobain was 23 when Nirvana recorded "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Fitzgerald published The Great Gatsby when he was 29. Orson Welles was 23 when he scared the country with his War of the Worlds broadcast. Norman Rockwell was the art editor for Boy's Life magazine at 19.

Millennials are plenty old enough to be making artistic contributions.

Blogger WildClaw March 04, 2015 11:52 PM  

Most of the kids don't have any employable skills and they don't have well-though college /carreer plans for the future. They have bought into the "you must go to college and get a degree (any degree!) because the future requires it" mantra. AS a result, community service, music, Student government positions, etc. are mainly sought after to give you that slight edge over your competitors, not out of genuine interest or goodness. I've been lucky to escape the influence and mindset that has infected my peers. (I'm planning to go to a four-year college before going to dental school. After my internship, I'll probably for work for an already established dentist before starting my own business). Student loans need to be payed back and only certain degrees an do that. Education is an investment that needs a realistic cost/benefit and risk/reward analysis for every individual.

Anonymous Mr. Rational March 04, 2015 11:56 PM  

Do you worry about running out of memory?

Not in years.

Have you ever written code that exceeded the memory space allotted for it?

Not lately, but I've corrected a lot of code that did.  VAX to 80286 is a world of difference.

Have you ever explicitly controlled the memory space in a program you wrote?

Many times.

Do you worry about your program having a memory leak?

Not unless I have to use malloc() and free(), or higher-level analogues.

Do you know what a memory leak is?

A-yup.

Do you worry about writing code that bogs down the CPU?

Not lately, but I have had to count CPU cycles to make sure I'd be clear.

Have you ever wished you had more CPU horsepower?

A-yup.

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?

Forced?  Several times I've enjoyed it.

How often were you forced to create your own user documents based on your own investigations of the hardware, compiled software, and/or source code base that you were handed?

More than I can count offhand.  When design documents either didn't exist or weren't available, reverse-engineering them was the only option available.

Have you ever had to decompile a code base as the first task in a new job?

I've had to de-compile buggy compiler output as my first task in a new job.

Blogger WildClaw March 04, 2015 11:58 PM  

Here's conversation I had with a friend about a week or so ago. http://imgur.com/gallery/1MVAo/new

Blogger Outlaw X March 05, 2015 12:00 AM  

Yes to the test questions and have written manuals for software I wrote and software someone else wrote. Th State of Texas With some 150 field office are still using my users manual for software that was not specific to our work so they got me to figure it out and write a users manual.

Anonymous zen0 March 05, 2015 12:01 AM  

> Link missing, zen0.

oh ffs

retry:

Libertarian Traffic Control

No lights, no lanes, no casualties.....

Blogger Rabbi B March 05, 2015 12:03 AM  

"Millennials are plenty old enough to be making artistic contributions."

Among others . . .

David Farragut (born in 1801) was commissioned a midshipman in the United States Navy on December 17, 1810, at the age of nine. A prize master by the age of 12, Farragut fought in the War of 1812, serving under Captain David Porter. While serving aboard USS Essex, Farragut participated in the capture of HMS Alert on August 13, 1812 . . .



Blogger Rabbi B March 05, 2015 12:11 AM  

@zen0

Very instructive. The pedestrians were by far my favorite and the most impressive.

Anonymous Paranoid zen0 March 05, 2015 12:13 AM  

@ Wild Claw

Why can't they find someone to talk to face to face?

Dude, man, hey. Real faces are full of micro-aggressions, man . Nobody has to put up with that shit. Plus, it can't be documented for the thought police.

What are you on, man?

Anonymous zen0 March 05, 2015 12:15 AM  

> The pedestrians were by far my favorite and the most impressive.

Obviously people of great faith and co-ordination.

Anonymous Will Best March 05, 2015 12:17 AM  

Gatto talks about this type of thing. He spoke of a 'school' back east somewhere (I am in the West) where you spend several months building a house or a boat from scratch.

My high school had a course where the class built houses for HUD. Though most of the electrical and plumbing/gas was done by professionals, they were receiving training in those as well.

I passed my math teacher's certification test with a pencil. When students brought calculators, I forbade them. Don't think I could get away with than nowadays

A couple engineers on the floor came into my dorm room one day and asked to borrow my calculator. I gave them an odd look and said I don't have one. To which they responded "but you are a math major" to which I retorted.. "what does that have to do with math?" Although we did use MATLAB for a bunch of stuff in a couple courses.

Which also reminds me of the my physic final where we were allowed to bring in a crib sheet. And people had some rather elaborate crib sheets with every variation of every formula the entire semester. I have no idea how they found anything on those things. People thought I was nuts because I didn't have one. I got a bunch of "How could you not bring in a sheet?" to which I replied "You realize the entire class is based off 12 equations and in every problem you just take what they give you and chain those equations together until you get what they ask you for."

Quote: They looked at race – white and Asian Americans did better, but still fell behind similar top performers in other countries and below the OECD average.

The Hispanic hypothesis doesn't work, because there are no Hispanic Asians.


This isn't true. A Chinese guy I went to high school with married a Latina, and they have a child.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 05, 2015 12:19 AM  

Engineers print. Or rather, we letter.

Anonymous Rolf March 05, 2015 12:19 AM  

Vox, I think your comment it might as well be magic hits the nail squarely, but I think it's worse than that. The ruling class has become so divorced from reality that they think it's all magic, too. When Obama commanded his coding gnomes to go forth and implement Obamacare, I think he actually believed they could mutter their incantations about stacks and buffers and servers and megablaxons and whatnot and create such a golom such as he vaguely imagined it to be. He didn't need to know any of the dirty little details, such as the difference between "federal" and "state," because it would somehow magically take care of itself.

Just like people think it's trivial to push a button on their phone and talk to someone in the Australian outback, and every schmo has a website, they saw O-care as "just a website," having no comprehension at all of the difference between the front end interface look and the back-end server database details. It's magic to them. Making things happen is what slaves, servants, and coding gnomes, and the little people are for. They literally don't see that their will has nothing to do with reality and what people can actually do.

Our political class has a total cargo-cult mentality every bit as much as the millennials do. But the millennials will vote for the pol with the best-sounding vapid promise, not seeing the impossibility of them to actually be implemented.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 05, 2015 12:23 AM  

If Steve Jobs had lived long enough to see the Apple Car built, it would have been delivered to it's buyers with the hood welded shut.


A while back my wife's car (2009 vintage) blew a radiator hose while we were driving home from a date. Now, twenty years ago, I could've gotten us home with a roll of duct tape and a jug of water (had both in the car). But... this is the 21st Century. The radiator hose was buried in the engine compartemnt - to get at it I would have had to take out at a minimum the battery, the air filter, and some other thing I really didn't recognize. But never mind that - I couldn't even get at the radiator cap without a socket set to disassemble half the front wrap. Might as well have welded the hood shut.

We called Triple-A.

Idiotic engineering.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 05, 2015 12:25 AM  

How often have you been forced to write your own function/object library?

No, of course not. You just google for something, clone whatever looks interesting from git, and cut and paste some example code that calls it. If that doesn't do what you want, try blindly tweaking any parameters you see. if that still doesn't work, look for another git repo...

What was it Noah B said about spending eternity in Hell?

Blogger Rabbi B March 05, 2015 12:31 AM  

"My high school had a course where the class built houses for HUD."

Yep, gaining some practical life skills while using those skills to make a meaningful contribution to the lives of others.

More Gatto:

Its general principles were as follows:



Community service, because that was an easy way to find enough significant experiences acceptable to school bureaucrats for roughly 139 kids a week to have.



Among the services we participated in—all hard stuff—were:

i. Running a soup kitchen every Friday

ii. Attending to home-burnout victims, as needed, on call

iii. Inventing and testing new routines for day care centers

iv. Cleaning trash from parks

v. Peer tutoring in the kids’ original feeder-elementary schools

vi. Clearing knot weed from Riverside Park, cooking it to donate to charity kitchens

We responded with regularity to requests for assistance from neighborhood organizations; St. Luke’s hospital even requested us to double the number of volunteers we sent—on the grounds they did more and better quality service than their paid employees, a particular irony because at first they didn’t want ANY because of their age of thirteen! That compliment did not surprise me because I had seen again and again how grateful the young are when given release from the near-meaningless confinement of institutional classrooms.

Blogger Desiderius March 05, 2015 12:34 AM  

dh,

"Maybe I am not Millenial. According to Wikipedia, I was born right at the end of Generation X. I guess this is good then?"

You were educated before the PC bullshit went so over the top that it discredited all politics and even education itself in the minds of students. So there's that. There used to be enough liberalism in the leftism that it appealed to some critical minds like your own, but now most of the critical thinkers end up like Vox. The PC stuff is actually a tribal marker instead of an ideology, meant to signal readiness for corporate culture (including academia/gov which has been taken over by that culture). It's called "Left" by conservatives because they don't like it and they don't like the Left, but its a different animal and has in fact crowded out traditional leftism.

Blogger Desiderius March 05, 2015 12:43 AM  

Wildclaw,

"Anyway, the English and Social Studies Department are dominated by leftists. I chose not to take AP Macroeconmics because frankly, I didn't want to use Krugman's textbook. The assigned reading all has an obvious leftist slant to it, but I'll do what the teachers want me to do anyway. I had given up on the idea that the main idea of school is education. History classes (and to a limited extent, honors English) are usually fine, but most of the classes focus on pure memorization instead of critical thinking."

The irony of Common Core is that the Math is actually all about critical thinking, trial and error, figuring shit out over memorization (although basic skills like multiplication tables have been re-emphasized, look-up "automaticity"), but it's being undermined because of all the affirmative action hiring of math teachers to boost female representation in STEM. Your typical female math teacher was all about memorization and following instructions throughout her own education, so she's flummoxed by a curriculum that doesn't emphasize the things that got her where she is. Of course, the English/Social Studies standards are PC trash.

Anonymous kh123 March 05, 2015 12:50 AM  

"A Chinese guy I went to high school with married a Latina, and they have a child."

More than likely a neighbor of mine.

Anonymous Richard Camellion March 05, 2015 1:01 AM  

America is like a rambling old mansion weakened by Mestizo and Sub-Saharan African termite infestations and terribly ill prepared for the relentless Asian economic hurricane that will be pounding the Western world for the foreseeable future.
Economically, we have a horrible strength to weight ratio.
Gargantuan debts and an increasingly mentally weak population living in an optimistic retarded TV dreamworld.

Anonymous dh March 05, 2015 1:19 AM  

Des--

I am not under no illusions that the Jesuit education I received is anything but fairly hardcore leftism/marxist ideology that is quite popular in South America and now Rome, to an extent. But will always be grateful that I learned real math, took 4 years of Latin and 2 years of Greek, and learned enough of it so that I could translate from Latin into Greek and vice versa, at least for more basic texts. Learned biology and dissected things that used to be living. We read the Bible, even the icky parts, and learned enough about it's history and composition to easily refute your average idiot atheist without going back to the source. Class was structured and strict but joyful. We read real English literature, from Chaucer to Joyce to Twain to Steinbeck. The instruction was proud of Western civilization but never patriotic, and we spent a lot of time learning about failed cultural experiments and civilizations. We talked about evil as a real thing, that was attractive and piercing and present in daily life. My freshman year was the last year with a student smoking lounge. Senior year, someone took a swing at teacher, a Jesuit 30 years his senior, who deftly avoid it, cassock swaying smoothly, popped out two quick jabs and powerful cross that landed the offender on his backside, dazed and confused. There were no police, no appeals to the school board, no conferences. He cleaned out his locker, and we never saw him again. Class was disrupted for perhaps 5 minutes, total, which is the most I ever remember it being disrupted. Students regularly failed out. Seniors were expected to play an epic prank on the school, which was always funny, challenging, clever and harmless. I am eternally grateful for my parents for educating me in this manner, instead of sending me to the lions den. My father was at that time quite old, and he told me before his health really turned, that he regretted that my kids wouldn't be able to be educated the same way he was, and my grandfather was. I didn't understand what he meant, but I do now.

Anonymous Viidad March 05, 2015 1:20 AM  

I'm no technophile; however, I remember buying my first computer - a TRS-80 - with money I earned mowing lawns, then learning to write my own programs in Basic... and record them on cassette. I used to write stupid stuff for fun, like making a big smiley face in the middle of the screen with blinking colors and random beeps. It was a blast.

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