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Monday, March 16, 2015

The real OU scandal

Instapundit points out that the media is focusing on the wrong scandal at Oklahoma:
It has been a bad spell for the University of Oklahoma. First, some members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity were videotaped singing a racist song on a bus, and a video went public. Then OU President David Boren kicked the fraternity off campus and summarily expelled two of the fraternity members.

You may think it's unfair for me to treat these two incidents as comparable, and if you do think that you're right: The difference is that David Boren broke the law, while the fraternity brothers merely behaved badly.

As a state institution, the University of Oklahoma is constrained by the Constitution. Among other things, that means that it must respect the free speech guarantees contained in the First Amendment, even if that speech is repugnant. Just because the university doesn't like what students say, thinks it's hateful, or worries that it will produce an unpleasant atmosphere on campus, doesn't grant it the authority to punish people for speaking. One would think that Boren — a former U.S. senator who took an oath to uphold the Constitution when he was sworn into office — would know better. Apparently not.
Singing racist songs may be impolite. It may be jackassery. But it is Constitutionally protected free speech. Not allowing blacks into your fraternity may be rude. It may be boorish. But it is Constitutionally protected free association.

Meanwhile, OSU deserves to get its pants sued off and David Boren should be fired by the university immediately. As Glenn rightly points out, OU didn't expel a black football player who beat up a girl so badly that he literally broke her face. But they expelled two white students for engaging in legal and Constitutionally-protected behavior.

Labels:

83 Comments:

Anonymous DrTorch March 16, 2015 1:03 PM  

Talking about the football player only muddies the issue IMO.

Fact is, those students pay tuition, and their parents paid taxes for OU to exist. They have Constitutional protection, and a contractual right to attend classes.

Boren should be fired immediately.

Anonymous Offended Sooner March 16, 2015 1:06 PM  

You seem to use the initials OSU to describe the University of Oklahoma. OSU is Oklahoma State University and OU is the University of Oklahoma.

They are different institutions. Just about anyone strongly associated with one might be offended at being confused with the other.

Blogger Marissa March 16, 2015 1:11 PM  

There were two black members in the fraternity.

Blogger Azimus March 16, 2015 1:14 PM  

VD:
But it is Constitutionally protected free association.


This is no loaded/troll question: what would you point to in a sentence, to describe Free Association in the Constitution? Right of Assembly?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 16, 2015 1:16 PM  

Outsourcing moral outrage to Black racial bigots such as the left is doing in this case is pure short term thinking especially for the blacks who will soon be disqualified by the SJWs.

Blogger Cluttermonkey March 16, 2015 1:17 PM  

They are different institutions. Just about anyone strongly associated with one might be offended at being confused with the other.

Since when did people start being 'offended' at some honest mistake or typo? And what does you being offended or threatening/taking offence on someone else's behalf change anything? You honestly can't expect strangers on the internet to care the way your mommy does when you cry, do you?

Blogger luagha March 16, 2015 1:19 PM  

Wikipedia sez (at the moment):

The United States Supreme Court held in NAACP v. Alabama that the freedom of association is an essential part of the Freedom of Speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others.
...
Expressive associations are groups that engage in activities protected by the First Amendment – speech, assembly, press, petitioning government for a redress of grievances, and the free exercise of religion. In Roberts v. United States Jaycees, the Supreme Court held that associations may not exclude people for reasons unrelated to the group's expression. However, in the subsequent decisions of Hurley v. Irish-American Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Group of Boston, the Court ruled that a group may exclude people from membership if their presence would affect the group's ability to advocate a particular point of view.

So, while not expressly listed, freedom of speech directly implies freedom of association.

Anonymous jack March 16, 2015 1:24 PM  

I had forgotten about that black OU player. Yeah, he helps the bottom line so a free pass. Then, too, so do tuition paying students. Frat guys do some stupid things; when I was at university I lived the floor below the Delta social group. They were not quite a frat but were in all but name. This was in the 60's and those guys were probably, or could have been, the model for the Animal House dudes. No caca here.
I agree: OU should be sued up then back down the street. And, yes, the President should be 'encouraged' to take a hike. It could have been handled with some quiet counseling sessions. I guess the PC, victim, mantra has its death hold around our necks.

Anonymous jack March 16, 2015 1:26 PM  

Thanks luagha. that was informative!

Anonymous not a Scot March 16, 2015 1:29 PM  

The problem with fraternities is they're full of men. If the SJWs had their way, colleges would ban all fraternities but one: Lamda Lamda Lamda.

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 March 16, 2015 1:31 PM  

Since when did people start being 'offended' at some honest mistake or typo?

New to the Internet, are you?

Blogger Edd Jobs March 16, 2015 1:34 PM  

Azimus:
This is no loaded/troll question: what would you point to in a sentence, to describe Free Association in the Constitution?

“It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the ‘liberty’ assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech.” -NAACP v. Patterson, 357 U.S. 449 (1958)

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 16, 2015 1:40 PM  

I saw a commenter elsewhere posting that there was 4 felons on the OU football team, does anyone have data on the other 3 in case someone tries to disqualify me for mentioning it? So much for the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Since when did people start being 'offended' at some honest mistake or typo?

Obviously you have never meet the gay fashion police that go up to strangers to point out mistakes like wearing white after labor day. If you do go ahead and bitch slap them for me.

Blogger Noah B March 16, 2015 1:44 PM  

Amen. An institution receiving public money has no right to restrict free speech. If they were a fully private institution it would be a different matter, but there would still be incredible hypocrisy in the disparity of treatment of the white fraternity members and the black football player.

Blogger Ghost March 16, 2015 1:49 PM  

Clark retweeted one guy who nailed it: "only education can eradicate racism." RACIST CHANT "EXPEL THE RACISTS!"

Blogger Marissa March 16, 2015 1:51 PM  

I saw a commenter elsewhere posting that there was 4 felons on the OU football team, does anyone have data on the other 3 in case someone tries to disqualify me for mentioning it? So much for the soft bigotry of low expectations.

I don't think any of the players have been convicted, and maybe only Mixon has actually been charged (not even sure of that). Mixon filed charges against the woman he punched, claiming he punched her in self-defense after she attacked him. There are also Frank Shannon and Dorial Green-Beckham, who've been accused, but there were no charges filed against either.

Obviously you have never meet the gay fashion police that go up to strangers to point out mistakes like wearing white after labor day.

Why are these fashion laws applicable everywhere? It makes sense in the Northeast. In Texas, the months of September and October have temperatures comparable to NE summertime.

Anonymous DrTorch March 16, 2015 1:53 PM  

Unfortunately, there was little outrage over this incident from last year

http://www.ohio.com/sports/kent-state/kent-state-wrestler-sam-wheeler-suspended-for-anti-gay-tweets-1.465623

Kent State redshirt sophomore Sam Wheeler from Copley High School was indefinitely suspended from the wrestling team Monday after posting homophobic comments on Twitter.

even though the principles are the same.

Blogger Noah B March 16, 2015 1:56 PM  

Why are these fashion laws applicable everywhere? It makes sense in the Northeast. In Texas, the months of September and October have temperatures comparable to NE summertime.

Soldiers deployed in winter combat conditions also frequently ignore this rule.

Anonymous Gecko March 16, 2015 2:00 PM  

I assume Vox is aware of this and is merely using Reductio ad Absurdum to hoist them on their own petards, as well we should, but...

I don't think what Boren did was actually unConstitutional. Ridiculous case law aside, "Congress shall make no law" does not include "Universities shall not." Not that I expect much of schools, but loose interpretations like that are what gets God PCed out of school among other things.

Anonymous Keep Smiling March 16, 2015 2:06 PM  

Are we completely sure that the "Chant" wasn't just them singing a current Rap Song. I am pretty sure you can hear the same words being blasted out over the sound systems in a fair number of dorm rooms pretty much day or night.

Blogger Ghost March 16, 2015 2:10 PM  

It's a state school that takes federal funds. It can't kick kids out for non-threatening speech. If kids in the state's school can't speak openly without fear of expulsion, then what good is the first amendment? What does it protect? With that logic, cops can beat you for calling them pigs, and they haven't violated your first amendment rights, because congress didn't pass a law.

Blogger Danby March 16, 2015 2:12 PM  

@Gecko,
The courts have long held that the 14th amendment extends the protection of the Bills of Rights to conduct by the states as well as the fedgov.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 16, 2015 2:16 PM  

If fraternities wish to avoid these kinds of things in the future, they need to start providing a value to the college. Right now, football players make money for the university, which is probably the player wasn't expelled, even though he should have been. When you get down to it, the deans are all about the bottom line. The only reason those students were expelled was because they broke a moral code and there was no downside to expelling them.

Blogger Noah B March 16, 2015 2:17 PM  

You beat me to it, Danby.

Anonymous Anonymous March 16, 2015 2:19 PM  

I don't think what Boren did was actually unConstitutional. Ridiculous case law aside, "Congress shall make no law" does not include "Universities shall not."

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. While absolutely correct in the words you describe, the standard interpretation is that no government entity can restrict the first amendment (i.e. Congress can't do it, and neither can State congresses). The University of Oklahoma is a state institution, so, again, constitutional protections have, almost as a standard, extended to state bureaucracies/entities (i.e. Congress can't do it, the EPA can't do it, state congresses can't do it, state departments of environmental quality can't do it, and so on).

A private school could certainly do what OU did (and while it muddies the waters somewhat if that private school accepts federal funds, it probably wouldn't in this case). But state universites, like state (or local) police, state/local bureaucrats, and federal bureaucrats, are restricted from limiting constitutional rights.

anonymousse

Anonymous dsgntd_plyr March 16, 2015 2:25 PM  

OU is a state school. A part of the OK government. They are bound by the Constitution like all other government agencies.

Blogger Josh March 16, 2015 2:27 PM  

If fraternities wish to avoid these kinds of things in the future, they need to start providing a value to the college.

Who do you think donates money to the school and employs its graduates?

Anonymous dh March 16, 2015 2:29 PM  

Are we completely sure that the "Chant" wasn't just them singing a current Rap Song. I am pretty sure you can hear the same words being blasted out over the sound systems in a fair number of dorm rooms pretty much day or night.

This is actually really brilliant way to white knight. Just have a bunch of white kids appropriate word for word rap lyrics.

Anonymous Alexander March 16, 2015 2:30 PM  

Out: Fraternities are just full of old money good old boys who get to party for four years because great-grand daddy has his name on the library.

In: Fraternities need to start contributing financially to the school!

Anonymous Alexander March 16, 2015 2:32 PM  

On the other hand...

The idea that people who are economic parasites should be given no leeway for their bad behavior by the rest of society... please, tell me more.

Anonymous Porky March 16, 2015 2:34 PM  

Is BGS actually Doug Dannger?

Blogger Noah B March 16, 2015 2:36 PM  

"This is actually really brilliant way to white knight. Just have a bunch of white kids appropriate word for word rap lyrics."

The SJW's already have that covered. The response is something along the lines of, "But it's racist when you say it!"

Blogger Azimus March 16, 2015 2:40 PM  

luagha, Edd Jobs, thank you. I had understood generally the argument from the 1st amendment, but the 14th amendment was surprising. Thank you!

Anonymous Enlightenator March 16, 2015 2:42 PM  

Swiftfoxmark2:

Frats already provide value. Aren't their members the most generous donors to universities? As well as being the most active athletic boosters?

Blogger Josh March 16, 2015 3:00 PM  

Are we completely sure that the "Chant" wasn't just them singing a current Rap Song.

Yes. Have you seen the video in question?

Please tell me which rap song contains these lyrics:

There will never be a nigger at SAE
you can hang ‘em from a tree
but they’ll never sign with me
there will never be a nigger at SAE



I am pretty sure you can hear the same words being blasted out over the sound systems in a fair number of dorm rooms pretty much day or night.


Again, tell me which rap songs talk about hanging niggers from trees.

Blogger Chris Mallory March 16, 2015 3:07 PM  

"Again, tell me which rap songs talk about hanging niggers from trees."

Would it have been more to your liking if they had talked about "bustin a cap" instead of hanging?

Anonymous Will Best March 16, 2015 3:10 PM  

I don't think what Boren did was actually unConstitutional. Ridiculous case law aside, "Congress shall make no law" does not include "Universities shall not."

This is idiotic. Congress cannot create an entity that can then violate the constitution. And regardless of what you think of 14th Amendment incorporation doctrine (Bill of Rights being applied to the states), the Oklahoma state legislature suffers a similar fate via the Oklahoma Constitution:

Section II-22

"Every person may freely speak, write, or publish his sentiments
on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right;
and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of
speech or of the press.
In all criminal prosecutions for libel,
the truth of the matter alleged to be libelous may be given in
evidence to the jury, and if it shall appear to the jury that the
matter charged as libelous be true, and was written or published
with good motives and for justifiable ends, the party shall be
acquitted."

Anonymous Roundtine March 16, 2015 3:13 PM  

What do we want? Dead cops. What do we get? Dead cops, but only only whiny bitch ass white people complain about it.

What do we want? No niggers at SAE. What do we get? Well actually there are some black SAEs...so....GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR OUTRAGE

Anonymous Gecko March 16, 2015 3:23 PM  

Yes, I'm aware that people and courts interpret the Constitution that way. People also interpret the Second Amendment and others to mean things they not actually say. I'm just saying that those intrepretations require a deviation from the actual wording.

Regardless, if they're going to "stretch" the law to apply to schools in other ways, Boren should certainly be fired by the same standard.

Blogger IM2L844 March 16, 2015 3:24 PM  

*Laughs* Slaughtering sacred cows isn't just for sport anymore.

Anonymous wick March 16, 2015 3:29 PM  

This explodes the "Georgetown cocktail party" theory of white debasement. One would have thought that after his Washington career, Boren was secure in his status.

Anonymous beerme March 16, 2015 3:29 PM  

If fraternities wish to avoid these kinds of things in the future, they need to start providing a value to the college.
The value greek organizations provide to colleges won't be seen until they are eliminated. University administrations love to tout all of the community service and philanthropic activities that greek organizations do for the community. They love their money when given to the athletic boosters or as donations to the university.

Good luck to anyone thinking they can get that level of money and time from hipsters and SJWs. They will be the only ones left on campus as internet education cuts out the need for university credentials to get around Griggs v Duke Power.

Anonymous Will Best March 16, 2015 3:32 PM  

It is not an interpretation its math.

r not in Set of X
Y subset of X
r not in Set of Y

Blogger RobertT March 16, 2015 3:35 PM  

" Meanwhile, OSU deserves to get its pants sued off and David Boren should be fired by the university immediately. As Glenn rightly points out, OU didn't expel a black football player who beat up a girl so badly that he literally broke her face. But they expelled two white students for engaging in legal and Constitutionally-protected behavior. "

Correctomundo. Stories like this make you think "Here we go again." You get the impression you're the only one who hasn't lost their mind. I, for instance, always thought Silicon Valley was chock full of of flaming liberal SJWs. The loud ones are. But Business Insider recently reported Silicon Valley votes Republican. And most of the people I've met out there are fervent Christians, including some of the famous, high profile people. So all is not lost.

Blogger Danby March 16, 2015 3:36 PM  

@ G
It's certain that the intention of the 14th was to protect newly freed slaves from virtual re-enslavement by the state governments in the former confederacy. From there, it's not a stretch to interpret that to mean that the protections of the Bill of Rights for individual liberties are rights of the individual, more than merely restrictions on the federal legislative power. While there are other arguments and interpretations, they have not carried the day.
And under Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence, an interpretation would have to do violence to the text to justify overturning precedent.
At least, it would have to, unless the re-interpretation is leftist, then the standard is a mite looser. So, as a practical matter, the meaning is settled and would require federal legislation of amendment to be revisited.

Blogger Anthony March 16, 2015 3:37 PM  

Not allowing blacks into your fraternity may be rude. It may be boorish. But it is Constitutionally protected free association.

As I understand it, the fraternities at OU are on University property which they lease from the University. Therefore, they are covered by Federal and State anti-discrimination laws. The NAACP v Alabama case was about the State preventing certain people from associating, and thus does not create a right to *exclude* people from associating; the Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly says that organizations do not have the right to exclude all members of a protected class. So while SAE has the right to exclude any given black student, just as it has the right to exclude any given white student, it does not have the right to exclude all black students.

However, the University, as the fraternity's landlord, is (probably) bound by state landlord-tenant law, which in Oklahoma requires 5-day notice for eviction for breach of contract. As I understand it, the University gave the frat 24 or 48 hours to clear out, and locked the building. So unless the University has an exemption from general statewide landlord-tenant law, they're in violation of that, too. They're also probably in breach of contract.

Blogger Cluttermonkey March 16, 2015 3:41 PM  

Since when did people start being 'offended' at some honest mistake or typo?

New to the Internet, are you?


New to rhetorical questions are you?

Might as well ask if rabbits are gonna act as rabbits. Seeing as Vox and the Ilk have illustrated quite clearly that employing logic and facts or dialectic with the perpetually offended in search of a new emotional high is quite useless, I see no reason not to act accordingly

Blogger Thordaddy March 16, 2015 3:44 PM  

And yet the REAL DEBATE is whether the nigger actually exists and whether these fraternity "brothers" were in fact making a solemn vow to their white sorority "sisters" to keep the nigger out?

Even those on the "race-realist right" view this incident from the soft lense of anti-white Supremacy.

Blogger Outlaw X March 16, 2015 3:44 PM  

As Glenn rightly points out, OU didn't expel a black football player who beat up a girl so badly that he literally broke her face.

Vox you think that was because black or because football player?

Blogger Student in Blue March 16, 2015 3:52 PM  

Thordaddy... how do you manage to thoroughly make yourself look like an idiot everytime? All you had to do was just show up here and nod your head, maybe say "I told you so!", but instead you let everyone know that this is all really about black men's dicks, and you're very concerned about it.

Even when given a practically free win, you manage to throw the game.

Blogger Thordaddy March 16, 2015 4:08 PM  

Student in the blue...

Yes... But MORE to the point... This is about "white" self-annihilators who pretend that niggers do not actually exist (along with all other "good" liberals) to maim and murder white people as a matter of archetypical mandate. This symbiotic regression then "evolves" into an act of "liberation" from "white supremacy."

In short, clowns like the "student in the blue" get polar-bared naked by a mass of savage nigger and the media methodically transforms this violent degradation of an ANTI-WHITE SUPREMACIST into an act of liberation for "black" man... From white Supremacy... YOU... Student the the blue. No sheeet!

Blogger S1AL March 16, 2015 4:14 PM  

"If fraternities wish to avoid these kinds of things in the future, they need to start providing a value to the college."

Just because I don't think quite enough people have mentioned it: Fraternities (and sororities) provide *by far* more community service hours, donations, student government involvement, and activities involvement than non-Greek organizations or students. It's not even close.

Now, every Greek system has issues. But saying that they need to "start providing value" makes you seem like a petty member of the Proletariat whining about how those silly Bourgeoisie really need to kick in some capital for new businesses.
---

"So while SAE has the right to exclude any given black student, just as it has the right to exclude any given white student, it does not have the right to exclude all black students."

Yeah, this is virtually unenforceable, anyways. Not that it usually matters, since every campus with a Greek system is going to have a fraternity that welcomes minorities.

Blogger Maple Curtain March 16, 2015 4:15 PM  

What scandal? White men have no rights. What's this constitution of which you speak? All that matters is the will to power - direct consequence of female suffrage.

Blogger Student in Blue March 16, 2015 4:24 PM  

No Thordaddy, you just said this was really about black men, and what they might do to the wimmins.

I have to say, with the amount of effort you spend on this canard about supremacy and whatnot, it makes me believe you have some sort of deep-seated fetish. Are you a masochist Thordaddy? Do you secretly yearn for a chocolate injection?

I mean, you were the one who brought up the black men/white women angle without anyone else talking about it. It just leads one to believe you have those proclivities, given this fascination you have on black men.

I believe there are associations that band together likeminded men such as yourself. Maybe you'd find a home at GNAA, for instance.

Blogger praetorian March 16, 2015 4:26 PM  

The Incorporation doctrine is a recent innovation of the twentieth century. I don't think anyone who prefers the Anglo-Saxon approach to law needs to accept it. Reminds me of the Chesterton quote: "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."

That being said, as a practical matter, there is some Black Knighting to be done here, and let it be done well.

Anonymous Unadorned March 16, 2015 4:26 PM  

I’m surprised no one, as far as I know, has seen this as a good sign---the song that is.

All of the college age kids I know have been brain-washed by the social justice brown shirts since kindergarten. They’re true believers who have bought the message that racist white men are the pariah of the earth, and can never atone; and by the way, the white race is just a social construct. Or, at least, that’s what I thought. It actually gives me hope that there are young white men out there who aren’t afraid to say the N-word, even if in private.

Anonymous happy working woman March 16, 2015 4:48 PM  

Interesting how in this case penumbras are okay but when used to grant a right to choose or to outlaw sodomy laws, they're evidence of SCOTUS overreaching.

Just an observation because I have no horse in this race either way.

Anonymous tiredofitall March 16, 2015 5:11 PM  

"But they expelled two white students for engaging in legal and Constitutionally-protected behavior." - Vox

But...but they used words that cause feelbads, and that trumps everything else, right?

Anonymous soonerTroll March 16, 2015 5:27 PM  

I haven't read through the comments to this point, so if someone has written a synopsis of the punch to the girls face already I apologize.

The incident happen during last summer. The football player was then an incoming 19yrs old freshman, that recruiting services ranked among the elite high school running backs. The female student was a 20yrs old soph. While with different groups of friends at a cafe during the early hours of a sat the two got into a verbal argument, during which the female student slaped the FB player and he then sluged her in the face.
The FB player was charged with misdemeanor assault, and the university suspended him for a year, The soph student was a wf and obviously the footballer was a bm. If you want more details like names you can google the incident.

After the suspension most sooner football fans blamed the female student and claimed she provoked the player with a N-bomb. But media who saw the video said the FB player provoked the female student by calling her male friend she was with a faggot.
So that story has numerous angles to it.

Anonymous Hoss March 16, 2015 6:01 PM  

Boren's a democrat: that means that "living, breathing" document can be bent to suit whatever social justice needs the left wants at the time.

Blogger Thordaddy March 16, 2015 6:01 PM  

Student with the blues...

Do "niggers" exist AND should white men keep them away from all white females? The "chant" was an acknowledgement of both a REAL threat and REAL responsibility.

Only YOU entertain the homo-angle AND gladly defer to the race-realist's soft-peddled version of the narrative.

So although it was badspeak, they still had a right to say it.

The reality is that the "chant" is an off the cuff idenitarian battle cry.

Blogger Josh March 16, 2015 6:27 PM  

Would it have been more to your liking if they had talked about "bustin a cap" instead of hanging?

It's not about what I like or dislike, it's about whether or not the rap lyrics claim is a truthful one.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 16, 2015 6:33 PM  

Still waiting to hear about the Jewish roots of Sophocles, Euripides and Aeschylus. Or Solon and Augustus. Praxiteles? Democritus? Horace? Tacitus?

Blogger Josh March 16, 2015 6:34 PM  

I mean, you were the one who brought up the black men/white women angle without anyone else talking about it. It just leads one to believe you have those proclivities, given this fascination you have on black men.

While "Thor" daddy might very well "be" gay for that "exotic" "dark chocolate", the truth might just be that he was sweet on a girl who ran off and hooked up with a black dude.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 16, 2015 6:34 PM  

Apologies: wrong thread. An accident.

Anonymous NateM March 16, 2015 6:50 PM  

Perhaps Thordaddy is CuckDaddy?

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 16, 2015 7:15 PM  

"Just an observation because I have no horse in this race either way." "Perhaps Thordaddy is" http://www.gaypatriot.net/2015/03/16/meet-buttercup-the-gay-white-nationalist-brony/

Sorry I couldn't help it.
"Again, tell me which rap songs talk about hanging niggers from trees." "Would it have been more to your liking ... about "bustin a cap"

I always wondered it is was some down low thing to bust a cap in their ass. Have dated some Hispanics but never blacks.

Blogger S1AL March 16, 2015 7:24 PM  

Heh. Or maybe he's just lispy, and he wants everyone to know that he's very sore about the whole thing.

Anonymous bw March 16, 2015 7:48 PM  

The real OU scandal is its involvement with Arabs and OkBomb

Blogger Student in Blue March 16, 2015 8:35 PM  

Thordaddy, at least Steve (the Big Gay one) is out and proud about it. I understand it must be hard for those in your neo-Nazi shoes to admit they want to lap up some chocolate fondue, but for goodness' sakes man at least admit it. It should do wonders for your mental stability. I mean, we haven't quite rassled up and lynched BigGaySteve yet - he hasn't fondled anyone (without their consent) so I guess he's been a fine guest so far - so there's nothing stopping you!

But in interests of holding to the spirit of the blog rules, I'll answer your seemingly rhetorical question.
>Do "niggers" exist AND should white men keep them away from all white females?
Well since you enclosed "niggers" in quotations, I can only assume you're being metaphorical and not talking about them in a literal sense...

because any sane individual wouldn't abuse quotations in that way.

So you must be referring to the metaphorical "niggers", aka the people who are little above baboons in temperament and mental ability, not specifically black people. So yes, I believe you fit that bill. You are a "nigger". And you should be kept away from all white females by everyone. Hell, you should be kept away from the black, asian, indian, and every other women too.

How peculiar. It appears not only do you lust after the black man, but you identify with him too. And you must be masochistic because you say only the worst things about black people, who you identify with. :^)

Blogger GoldRush Apple March 16, 2015 10:56 PM  

@ Swiftfoxmark2 - "If fraternities wish to avoid these kinds of things in the future, they need to start providing a value to the college."

And the Badge of Ignorance goes to ...

Anonymous Hoss March 16, 2015 11:21 PM  

I played football, and was in a fraternity. The university must have seen me as a wash.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 17, 2015 1:44 AM  

Please tell me which rap song contains these lyrics:

Completely unacceptable lyrics. We'll need those trees and ropes for politicians and lawyers.


Yes, I'm aware that people and courts interpret the Constitution that way. People also interpret the Second Amendment and others to mean things they not actually say. I'm just saying that those intrepretations require a deviation from the actual wording.

You're wrong about it being a deviation. How in the hell could any amendment have any value at all if it only applied to the legislature and didn't apply to institutions created and funded by government? And as has already been pointed out, Oklahoma's State Constitution covers this as well. Or would you think it's okay for the DMV to revoke someone's driver's license for hurtfully calling a woman fat? After all, they're not "Congress." Neither is the FDA, so I guess they can declare people who oppose gay marriage aren't allowed in hospitals.

OpenID agalltyr March 17, 2015 6:39 AM  

I sometimes ponder the paradox of anti-racism. If race is irrelevant, then skin color should be no different from hair color. I'd like to see a fraternity refuse to admit redheads ("gingers"), just to see how people would react.

Anonymous Lawyer Guy March 17, 2015 7:27 AM  

"You're wrong about it being a deviation. How in the hell could any amendment have any value at all if it only applied to the legislature and didn't apply to institutions created and funded by government? And as has already been pointed out, Oklahoma's State Constitution covers this as well. Or would you think it's okay for the DMV to revoke someone's driver's license for hurtfully calling a woman fat? After all, they're not "Congress." Neither is the FDA, so I guess they can declare people who oppose gay marriage aren't allowed in hospitals. "

The leader of the World Church of the Creator was denied a license to practice law due to his religious beliefs, and this was upheld under the Constitution notwithstanding religious freedom. However, in that case one of the core tenets of the faith was that God's Chosen People should not live in America because they harm our society, so the case could be an outlier. Best summary is at 333 F3d 678.

Anonymous Gecko March 17, 2015 9:34 AM  

You're wrong about it being a deviation. How in the hell could any amendment have any value at all if it only applied to the legislature and didn't apply to institutions created and funded by government?

Claiming that it does not have value is not the same as showing that it is not a deviation from the actual wording. Also, asking whether I believe something is okay is not the same as asking whether I believe it violates the Constitution. Oklahoma's constitution uses similar "law" language, so I don't see how that is different.

I get what you're saying. I know it's a silly concept in days such as these, but perhaps the question we should be asking is not how we can redefine things to make actions by all government institutions be considered Congressional law, but why such institutions should be allowed to exist if the Constitution does not specifically limit their power.

@praetorian

You nailed it, IMHO. I admit I'm a bit surprised that commenters here embrace Incorporation doctrine so readily. To be sure, I completely agree about the black knighting. It's always entertaining to see Vox use positions he doesn't agree with to expose the flaws to those that do. I assumed that was also the case here, but I may have assumed too much.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 17, 2015 10:23 AM  

Lawyer Guy: "The leader of the World Church of the Creator was denied a license to practice law due to his religious beliefs, and this was upheld under the Constitution notwithstanding religious freedom."

Right. As I recall, the argument (or just an argument?) was that there is no right to be a member of any particular bar guaranteed in the Constitution, so racists can be deprived of that.

The same argument can apply to going to college. And to all sorts of other things.

Anonymous John Smallberries March 17, 2015 10:33 AM  

I've noticed people keep saying things along the lines of "The University can't do X, Y or Z..."

Why not? Who/what is going to stop them? A lawsuit? What if they ignore the outcome of that, on the long shot it actually goes against them?

Leftoids, SJWs, et al. don't really get it quite yet, but they've opened something of a Pandora's Box on their outcome-based approach to law (aka end justifies the means). The reason they've made such progress, other than the fact that MPAI, is that the bulk of the population has some lingering respect for the legal process. They may not like the way some decisions go, but are willing to put aside the torches and pitchforks because you win some/lose some. But, what happens when it's always heads-SJWs-win/tails-you-lose? Or, even better, when the SJW types ignore those few that they lose and do as they wish anyway?

This to me is a more pertinent issue than whatever some frat members may have said in private.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 17, 2015 10:33 AM  

Claiming that it does not have value is not the same as showing that it is not a deviation from the actual wording

Fucking lawyers.

Blogger Student in Blue March 17, 2015 11:44 AM  

@Gecko
I admit I'm a bit surprised that commenters here embrace Incorporation doctrine so readily.[...] I assumed that was also the case here, but I may have assumed too much.

I think you're assuming too much by believing that everyone believes wholeheartedly in the goodness of the Incorporation doctrine. I didn't see anyone making judgement calls about how good and right it was.

Anonymous Gecko March 17, 2015 12:08 PM  

@Student
To be clear, I meant the acceptance of its validity, not its value.

@Jack
Hah! Just a programmer who has to live with unforgiving computers that don't give me any leeway with logical flexibility...

Anonymous Jack Amok March 17, 2015 9:46 PM  

Gecko, I too am a programmer, but I find computers are far more logically flexible than a considerable portion of humanity.

Anonymous Gecko March 18, 2015 9:21 AM  

Indeed. Though it does seem that our profession requires we have a better grasp of some aspects of logic than even philosophers, doesn't it?

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