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Saturday, March 07, 2015

The SJW slow-suicide model

Mozilla Firefox continues to die a well-deserved death:
Mozilla's Firefox is in danger of making the endangered species list for browsers. Just two weeks after Mozilla's top Firefox executive said that rumors of its demise were "dead wrong," the iconic browser dropped another three-tenths of a percentage point in analytics firm Net Applications' tracking, ending February with 11.6%. That was Firefox's lowest share since July 2006, when the browser had been in the market for less than two years.

Firefox 1.0 was released in November 2004, at a time when Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE) had a stranglehold on the browser space, having driven Netscape -- Firefox's forerunner -- out of the market. Mozilla has been credited with restarting browser development, which had been moribund under IE.

But Firefox has fallen on hard times. In the last 12 months, Firefox's user share -- an estimate of the portion of all those who reach the Internet via a desktop browser -- has plummeted by 34%. Since Firefox crested at 25.1% in April 2010, Firefox has lost 13.5 percentage points, or 54% of its peak share.

At Firefox's 12-month average rate of decline, Mozilla's desktop browser will slip under the 10% bar in June, joining other third-tier applications like Apple's Safari (with just a 4.8% user share in February) and Opera Software's Opera (1.1%). If the trend continues, Firefox on the desktop could drop below 8% as soon as October.
Now, what could possibly have happened in the last 12 months that would have caused users to stop using Firefox? Apparently I'm far from the only one who rejected the appeal to come back to Firefox. SJW is tech suicide; from what I've been hearing, GDC is going to be one of the next organizations to begin an SJW-inspired downhill slide into irrelevance.

You'd think people would learn, but like the Anglican Church, they just keep doubling-down on failure. And it doesn't help that the media has been complicit in keeping quiet concerning the main reason for Firefox's slide. Even in an article focused on "an incredibly shrinking Firefox", there isn't a single mention of the Eich affair.

And if you're still on Firefox, do get with the program and get rid of it. Don't support the SJWs.

Labels: ,

105 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous March 07, 2015 8:04 PM  

Firefox has lots of issues and bugs for me last 2 yrs.
Maybe that's a factor

Anonymous Daniel March 07, 2015 8:09 PM  

No. That's the symptom of the disease: they are on the cutting edge of SJW whims, not interested in the best tech. You can't pursue social justice without sacrificing justice; you can't chase equality and produce quality.

Hell, meet handbasket.

Blogger Vox March 07, 2015 8:12 PM  

Pick a name, please, Anonymous. Otherwise your comments will be deleted.

Anonymous Apollo March 07, 2015 8:19 PM  

SJW is tech suicide; from what I've been hearing, GDC is going to be one of the next organizations to begin an SJW-inspired downhill slide into irrelevance.

I have seen a few articles on this topic at Reaxxion recently. Do you have any further insight or information on this that you would be willing to provide Vox?

Blogger David-2 March 07, 2015 8:19 PM  

Some of the comments at that article attempt to spin the Eich incident as something innocuous, e.g.,

"Brendan was not fired and was not asked by the Board to resign. Brendan voluntarily submitted his resignation."

Sure.

Anonymous MrGreenMan March 07, 2015 8:21 PM  

I like how the flaks are out saying - no, couldn't be Eich - has to do with pre-installed base - cannot be Eich.

Chrome isn't pre-installed on anything but an Android device.

They are lagging Safari, which only really runs on Mac OS X and iOS devices.

Funny how they lost half of their audience, the Internet user base did not double in the same time, and now we'll hear like the lead commenter wants us to believe on the story - this is all IE preinstalled base! nobody knows what a browser is! all the browsers are the same thank Firefox!

We can thank Firefox from the period of Eich. The Firefox after Eich is known for trying desperately to save itself by latching onto Marissa Mayer's mission to kill Yahoo and for threatening to push its own ads down to its users.

Anonymous Will Best March 07, 2015 8:23 PM  

I switched to combination of pale moon/chrome. And with google's truthiness announcement I started adding IE and bing into the mix. But I still use thunderbird for my email client. Should probably switch that.

Blogger Vox March 07, 2015 8:24 PM  

Do you have any further insight or information on this that you would be willing to provide Vox?

Nothing substantive. Just various people saying that they don't see much value in going there to get preached at by the likes of Tim Schafer and Anita Sarkeesian. I've also talked to a friend who puts on conferences about starting a new game developer conference in Europe similar to the original Crawford CGDC for actual game developers only.

If anyone here is a genuine game developer and might be interested, email me. We're not talking about a big thing, maybe 50 to 100 people tops.

Anonymous Viidad March 07, 2015 8:31 PM  

I got rid of it for months, then re-installed later because AdBlock quit working on Iron. Chrome doesn't seem to be a better alternative. Mac platform makes it tougher.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 07, 2015 8:33 PM  

Viidad,

Pale Moon has is really good and has its own AdBlock extension that you can get.

OpenID socalexile March 07, 2015 8:33 PM  

I've hung on to Waterfox because I'm an old bastard who doesn't want to change; Oh, and I hate Chrome and IE.

Now it looks like I may have to.

Anonymous cecilhenry March 07, 2015 8:55 PM  

That;'s just it. Chrome and IE are awful, so I choose firefox a few years back.

It seems pretty good. A lot of useful add on;s that block thngs I don;t want etc.

Seems pretty stable but does seem to crash more lately for some reason. Why would it be going down?

Where are people going becuase I would never go to IE or Chrome?? What else is there that;s good???

I hate the SJW garbage coming from Firefox, but I haven;t seen this yet effecting the operating system.

Anonymous REG March 07, 2015 8:59 PM  

Still on Firefox, personal family problems have had priority. However, Firefox has continued to degenerate despite numerous 'upgrades' or because of numerous upgrades. It and Yahoo mail are not compatible anymore, I don't know whose fault that is. Firefox was one of the leaders in petitioning for 'Net Neutrality.' I plan on moving to Pale Moon very soon.

Anonymous guest March 07, 2015 9:00 PM  

But If they go under we are left between a rock (Internet Explorer) and a hard place (Chrome), the latter is essentially what we used to call "spyware". Whatever happened to that term?

Don't forget that Pale Moon is based on Firefox, if one vanishes, so does the other!

...

And did you hear about the MacGyver reboot, Vox?

"in 2016 his successor will be a woman, if a US engineering association has its way. Late in February, the National Academy of Engineering launched what it called The Next MacGyver Project, aimed at coming up with ideas for a scripted TV series featuring a female engineer as the leading character. Thirty years after that cult series riveted TV viewers, “the objective here is not a MacGyver reboot, but to inspire a new generation of women interested in science and technology by creating a strong female role model,”

First Ghostbusters, then Black Sails and now this...

Blogger Corvinus March 07, 2015 9:01 PM  

That;'s just it. Chrome and IE are awful, so I choose firefox a few years back.

That's the only reason I use Firefox, because it works much better than those others on my operating system. Otherwise I would have dumped it with the Eich affair.

Blogger bob k. mando March 07, 2015 9:03 PM  

you know, a lot of this has to do with Western women latching onto this 'No Conflict Under Any Circumstances' paradigm.

i was raised getting told that "fighting is never the answer" and "sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me".

( who primarily uses words to hurt people? females? and they're the ones telling me i can't fight when being insulted? hurrrmmm. )

this is such a huge sociological change from the White Feather shaming campaigns of WW1 and previous that it's really quite astounding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather

Blogger bob k. mando March 07, 2015 9:10 PM  

i'm shocked, Shocked, Michelle Shocked to find SJWs lying about observable reality:

"Nightingale said that January's desktop download numbers had been "the best they've been in years" and claimed that Mozilla's own numbers showed a tick upward that had not yet been confirmed by third-party measurements.

Neither Net Applications' data or that from StatCounter, an Irish analytics vendor, supported Nightingale's contention."

Anonymous Jack Amok March 07, 2015 9:34 PM  

Nothing substantive. Just various people saying that they don't see much value in going there to get preached at by the likes of Tim Schafer and Anita Sarkeesian.

One of my partners just got back from a week at GDC, but he didn't really "go" to GDC, he went down there and met with potential clients/partners/vendors etc. So he didn't have anything to say about SJWs on the loose.

I've also talked to a friend who puts on conferences about starting a new game developer conference in Europe similar to the original Crawford CGDC for actual game developers only.

Email our mutual friend Chris T. He has a rather large interest in Europe these days.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 March 07, 2015 9:37 PM  

Question is how quickly can we destroy Google if they go for "quality driven" search protocols. As in "quality" being what Progs/ Libtards/SJW deem readable.

If Google go down that road they need to be utterly destroyed. Those who live by tar and feathers must fall that way. Google's version of the Ministry ofTruth will be worse than anything George Orwell had in mind.



Anonymous zen0 March 07, 2015 9:39 PM  

Finally, I can go to my reward knowing I have made, in a small way, a difference. I had to get new (refurbished) hardware, but since my old stuff was 14 years old, it was probably time. Luckily found a ViewSonic monitor on the boulevard, and I was good to go so I could dis Firefox.

Unfortunately, I found that IE tends to start masturbating itself for about 5 minutes after one begins their daily session. Found out it was perverted (SJW-like) add-ons.
Then I discovered that one can open IE without add-ons, and voila, I was like a cowboy in a Nevada whorehouse renting Rational Response Squad pussy.

Blogger bob k. mando March 07, 2015 9:43 PM  

be an atheist. they get RRS pussy for free.

kind of like rock stars when you think about it.

Blogger MATT March 07, 2015 9:46 PM  

Firefox was starting to get slow and bloated years ago. That alone had me looking elsewhere.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2015 March 07, 2015 9:47 PM  

If this really gets up and running Al Gore and Michael Mann will walk the earth as gods. Be afraid.

Blogger Robert What? March 07, 2015 9:47 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Robert What? March 07, 2015 9:49 PM  

I am hoping that Google follows through on its planned change to use SJWFT (Social Justice Warrior Fact Technology) when calculating page rankings in the future. It will spell the quick demise of the company whose motto has morphed from "Don't do evil" to "Define 'evil'".

Anonymous Smokey March 07, 2015 9:53 PM  

be an atheist. they get RRS pussy for free.

kind of like rock stars when you think about it.


If dumpster diving is your thing, sure...

Anonymous beerme March 07, 2015 9:55 PM  

Don't forget that Pale Moon is based on Firefox, if one vanishes, so does the other!
Pale Moon isn't solely dependent on Mozilla for new code since it is a fork based off of an older version that is no longer supported by Mozilla. Pale Moon is made by a sane programmer instead of a group developing new shiny things to justify their existence. The only thing that would be lost is the ability to steal some of Mozilla's features and security updates.

To quote Moonchild "Although: "based on a rather old Firefox source" isn't exactly correct. I've been incorporating modern and sometimes bleeding edge technologies and code from Firefox in Pale Moon for a long time, in addition to my own code. What you should really see it as is taking a stable and full-featured base and building on top of that, porting desired (and ONLY desired) features and changes across."

Anonymous roo_ster March 07, 2015 10:22 PM  

Pale Moon is a good Firefox replacement. Lately I have been using Comodo Dragon, based on Chromium. I find it works very well.

SRW Iron tried to hit me with malware on the install so it can eat my shorts.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 07, 2015 10:26 PM  

Where is best download link for Pale Moon? New laptop...

Anonymous Scintan March 07, 2015 10:31 PM  

The unfixed memory bleeding and crashing video plug in issues haven't been improving customer happiness with Firefox either. I once told everyone to switch to Firefox, and most people did. I now tell almost all of them to switch to Pale moon and SRWare Iron for Windows computers, and Tenfourfox for older (POWER) Macs. Alas, finding a worthwhile non-Firefox browswer for new (Intel) Macs is akin to finding a live Dodo bird and Tasmaian tiger at the exact same moment in time: It's just not very likely to happen. Unless they can stomach Safari, I grudgingly recommend that new (Intel) Mac Users remain on Firefox, at this time.

Anonymous Thales March 07, 2015 10:38 PM  

#Gamergate is alive and Firefox is dead.

Anonymous commander427 March 07, 2015 10:38 PM  

This seems like a textbook example of the Leftward Death-Spiral that John C. Wright and Sarah Hoyt have noted. Hopefully the failure of Mozilla Firefox could serve as a warning to those who want to make to make an emphasis on social justice over merit endemic to the tech industry. I wonder if Intel will suffer the same fate as Mozilla after they gave hundreds of millions of dollars to SJWs.

http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/06/the-leftward-death-spiral/

Anonymous Daniel March 07, 2015 10:40 PM  

Pale Moon has proven in every way to be superior to Firefox. Current Chrome is better than current Firefox.

Anyone thinking that their currently updated Firefox is superior to IE or Chrome is simply wrong. The glitches are driving off anyone who is unaware of the social agenda, and the social agenda is contributing to the glitches. This is why the market share has plummeted: the org and the browser have serious and likely fatal issues. They are cruising for Netscape territory - might as well find a new browser before it becomes completely obvious that you have to.

Anonymous Koanic March 07, 2015 10:58 PM  

What's been missing from Vox's crusade against Firefox is a compelling technical reason to switch to Pale Moon.

When I switched, I found that Pale Moon was far faster and more stable than either Chrome or Firefox. It solved my lag issues when opening many tabs.

Adblock requires the Pale Moon specific plugin, not the generic Firefox one. Check the Pale Moon site, download the platform specific plugins you want, and then add whatever other generic FF ones you like.

Adding noscript gives additional speed and ad blocking, once you get used to the script enabling dialogue.

Blogger bob k. mando March 07, 2015 11:24 PM  

http://www.palemoon.org/

Blogger pbuxton March 07, 2015 11:26 PM  

Someone should "fork" Mozilla. They don't even need to split the code base: a separate dev community with an independent revenue stream would do it. (I.e., they don't need to commit changes intentionally unacceptable to mozilla.org. Just be independent.

Anonymous Generic Dummies March 07, 2015 11:28 PM  

Adding noscript gives additional speed and ad blocking, once you get used to the script enabling dialogue.

Where is the PaleMoon for Dummies link?

Anonymous beerme March 07, 2015 11:34 PM  

What's been missing from Vox's crusade against Firefox is a compelling technical reason to switch to Pale Moon.

Mozilla copied Google's 6 week update cycle for Chrome but they can't put out stable code. The compelling reason is that PM only puts out new versions when it is stable.

Also, I recall Moonchild stating somewhere on the PM forums that many of the security flaws in the newer versions of FF don't exist in PM.

Blogger dw March 07, 2015 11:36 PM  

Pale Moon works great for me. Been using it since a Vox recommended it last year. And all the add-ones for it are good too.

Blogger bob k. mando March 07, 2015 11:43 PM  

Smokey March 07, 2015 9:53 PM
If dumpster diving is your thing, sure...



dude, i didn't say you WANTED too, i'm just pointing out that there's no need to pay for it. that's like rubbing salt in the gash ... or something.

*snort*

that's actually kind of an amusing thought. pretend to be atheist, bang her for free, then whip out your bible and tell her to go forth and sin no more.

[ resumes picking teeth ]


and what's up with all of you having hard time finding palemoon.org?

is that already being filtered out of the google results?

Blogger ajw308 March 07, 2015 11:51 PM  

That you no longer have to spoof Palemoon as Firefox to get NetFlix to run is a good sign.

Blogger Corvinus March 07, 2015 11:52 PM  

Thanks all... Pale Moon seems to work great here.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 07, 2015 11:56 PM  

"Two weeks ago, Johnathan Nightingale, vice president of Firefox, argued that the browser had a "fierce momentum," citing Mozilla's internal data."

"Fierce momentum," of the kind that's contradicted by every external, objective source: I like that. This deserves to stand as the label for social justice warrior suicide, I mean success.

Anonymous pseudotsuga March 08, 2015 12:00 AM  

I played with Opera years ago, before Firefox pulled away from Internet Exploder. Opera used browser tabs before they were cool, and I found it to be a lean, mean browsing machine in Win 98. But that was a while ago, and I haven't had it installed on my latest 2 computers.
Why doesn't anyone currently recommend Opera?

Blogger Corvinus March 08, 2015 12:02 AM  

Now Titus, he failed to mention that it's "fierce momentum" in the same way a plunging meteor has "fierce momentum". You know, public relations and all.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 08, 2015 12:03 AM  

"You'd think people would learn, but like the Anglican Church, they just keep doubling-down on failure."

Jesus out; sodomy + sharia in = fierce momentum.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 08, 2015 12:07 AM  

Corvinus: "Now Titus, he failed to mention that it's "fierce momentum" in the same way a plunging meteor has "fierce momentum". You know, public relations and all."

(laughing) Ah, that's it?

In the Church of England context I was thinking of the fierce momentum of the Hell-bound Train.

Blogger bob k. mando March 08, 2015 12:12 AM  

Lucifer's Hammer strikes again ...

Anonymous Diomedes March 08, 2015 12:21 AM  

" And it doesn't help that the media has been complicit in keeping quiet concerning the main reason for Firefox's slide."

The only thing missing from your post is any evidence supporting your assertion. Every stat I've seen has Firefox's slide beginning at least two years before the Eich affair. Nor do the stats show any acceleration in decline at the time Eich was forced out.

What is your evidence -- aside from wishful thinking -- for laying the whole thing at the doorstep of SJWs rather than, say, the rise of Chrome?

Note I dropped Firefox over the Eich affair myself. However, I don't see any evidence that the boycott has had any impact whatsoever.

Blogger Danby March 08, 2015 12:22 AM  

I've been using Sleipnir browser from Fenrir in Japan, well, part-time anyway, I'm in pale moon right now. I love the gesture-based interface on my phone, and even on Windows, the user interface is a vast improvement over both IE and Firefox. It has a nice sense of style.

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 12:23 AM  

This is a misplaced vendetta. Yes, the Eich affair was bad, but it's not like Google, Apple or Microsoft would do things any differently. And at least Mozilla respects your privacy. They are definitely the lesser evil and I will continue to use them and hope enough others do to keep them going.

Blogger Danby March 08, 2015 12:28 AM  

@Diomedes,
Who cares? FF is dying because it sucks, because it's been taken over by SJW entryists instead of technologists. That clearly started happening well before they forced Eich out, and has continued to today.
Eich is a symptom, as is the inability to play videos reliably, to embed PDF files without crashing, and all the other techno-flailing and the attempt to move into push advertising. Once the purpose of the project was to produce a technologically advanced browser. I can't tell what the purpose is now.

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 12:30 AM  

@Diomedes, this chart would suggest that the Eich affair has made a difference.

Anonymous Daniel March 08, 2015 12:33 AM  

Jon,

Nothing misplaced about it. Chrome, IE, Safari would get the same treatment if they valued SJWs over tech. Ironic that you think that Firefox, a company that ousted its CEO over his privately held ideas, in any way respects privacy.

Firefox is springing leaks: the tech is driving market share into the dirt, but the love of SJW oppression is what is making the tech bad.

You just haven't noticed it. Yet.

Anonymous Varenius March 08, 2015 12:36 AM  

pseudotsuga: Why doesn't anyone currently recommend Opera?

Opera has sadly gone down the crapper under recently new management. Someone had the brilliant idea to strip out everything that made Opera worthwhile (extreme customization, saving sessions,etc) and put out something that's essentially indistinguishable from Chrome/Firefox. Stupid, stupid move that alienated many diehard fans (such as myself -- have stood by Opera for 15+ years). The bright spot, however, is that the original team of developers have come together to create Vivaldi, a new browser that brings back the traditional Opera mindset. It's still under development but looks promising.

In the meantime, the final version of Opera before the big change, v 12.17, is still available in the version archive at the Opera site.


Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 12:41 AM  

Jon March 08, 2015 12:23 AM

This is a misplaced vendetta. Yes, the Eich affair was bad, but it's not like Google, Apple or Microsoft would do things any differently. And at least Mozilla respects your privacy. They are definitely the lesser evil and I will continue to use them and hope enough others do to keep them going.


Jon, this would be like Google firing Larry Page or Apple firing Steve Jobs over a matter of personal opinion. It just wouldn't happen. And Mozilla was a non-profit. Non-profits have even less justification for firing someone over personal opinion.

And it is not a vendetta. It is simply smart risk-management. Organizations that go this way *always* falter in technological and quality issues. While Mozilla's has a good technical base with the Gecko rendering engine, and the best implementation of Javascript in existence, they have been floundering and doing useless crap for years. And the organization is now top-heavy with do-nothings. They have a huge list of pointless projects that stroke someone's ego somewhere in the organization. It's really a shame.

The good news is that the codebase is open source, and the Mozilla license is similar to the BSD license. No restrictions. What I would love to see happen is a) Brendan Eich and a few heavy hitters fork an organization dedicated only to the technical base: Javascript, HTML5/DOM, Gecko, video codecs, etc... and b) a few other organizations begin creating new browsers out of that codebase. The one beauty of the Mozilla codebase is that the browser UI is a separate issue from the core technologies.

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 12:47 AM  

"Chrome, IE, Safari would get the same treatment if they valued SJWs over tech."

A few articles for you to peruse:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/google-gay-marriage/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/21/microsoft-gay-marriage_n_1220800.html

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/26/apple-issues-statement-in-support-of-supreme-court-gay-marriage-rulings/

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 12:52 AM  

"Organizations that go this way *always* falter in technological and quality issues."

Do you honestly think that any of the big tech companies aren't already filled with SJW's?

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 12:54 AM  

Yes Jon, they are all full of SJWs, but none have made mistakes as massive as Mozilla's. Yet.

Blogger Corvinus March 08, 2015 12:57 AM  

Yes Jon, they are all full of SJWs, but none have made mistakes as massive as Mozilla's. Yet.

Apple's CEO came out as a h0m0 last fall and of course has since gone all in on the SJW agenda. That should be reason enough to dump all Apple products.

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 1:01 AM  

Yes, but even so, Apple has not gotten rid of one if its top technological resources over this SJW stuff. If we see Apple firing one of its top developers over a personal opinion or political contribution, then they will have sunk to the level of Mozilla.

Not that I care to use Apple products anyway.

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 1:15 AM  

I think the more likely scenario is that nobody with views like Eich would ever reach the top levels at Google, Apple or Microsoft. But if one somehow slipped through, you are only fooling yourself if you think he wouldn't be fired.

Blogger Tom Terrific March 08, 2015 1:17 AM  

Immediately after Eich resigned, I removed firefox from my computer and haven't used it since. Which kinda sucks because I liked it better than either Chrome or Safari. But I'll be damned if I'll be complicit in the destruction of my culture at the hands of the SJBullies.

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 1:21 AM  

Jon, you have no idea. Really. The parallel would be a *founding member* of a company, from before this whole SJW thing was a serious force. Eich was there at the inception of Netscape, literally 20 years ago, and then Mozilla. He was probably the single most important developer in the organization.

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 1:23 AM  

Why so sour, Jon? No one's forcing you to give up Firefox. This is just a group of people, happening to have an opinion about something, and then acting upon that opinion. If this gives you the feelbads, perhaps you would feel more welcome in some other online group.

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 1:29 AM  

So which browser do you use? There is no Chick-fil-A in the tech world. I use Firefox because, as I said before, they at least don't have a business model based on being, essentially, spyware. I also use DuckDuckGo and Ello for the same reasons. I don't expect any of these companies to be made up of anything but SJW millenials, but all of them at least follow a "Do Not Track" ethic.

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 1:43 AM  

Jon, have you not read the other comments? Several are mentioned. For one thing, Pale Moon is an excellent fork of Firefox, and the developer has explicitly stated (even commenting here at VP) that he wants no part of any SJW war. He just wants to make good technology. What a concept.

There are several others, some based on Mozilla's gecko engine, some based on Webkit. If you want a truly and completely open-source one based on WebKit, you might try Qupzilla, which I have found to be the fastest browser in Linux, and pretty darn fast on Windows also.

I agree that Chrome and Safari are almost as morally encumbered as Firefox. Let's help foster a more open world by using and helping others use the more honest competitors.

Blogger J Thomas March 08, 2015 1:57 AM  

Thanks for the heads up, deleting it now!

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 3:01 AM  

The problem with Pale Moon and the others is that they aren't even a blip on the radar, whereas Firefox is (was) a legitimate competitor. A single company with double digit market share is something that Google, Apple and Microsoft have to pay attention to -- it made them realize that a significant portion of internet users actually do care about privacy. If we all scatter to a handful of companies with single (or sub-single) digit market share then the privacy issue will disappear.

Blogger MidKnight March 08, 2015 3:09 AM  

@Jon - who actually uses Ello? I got an invite, peeked in, and good lord, it was full of hipsters.

I do respect their take on privacy, but I really couldn't care much about social networking anyway..... I think I use FP/whatever to check the meeting schedule of a group I belong to once every couple weeks

Anonymous Jon March 08, 2015 3:11 AM  

"I agree that Chrome and Safari are almost as morally encumbered as Firefox. Let's help foster a more open world by using and helping others use the more honest competitors."

At least we agree on this. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are switching from Firefox are switching to Chrome, Safari or IE.

Blogger Tupla-J March 08, 2015 3:56 AM  

Due to the Eich affair I switched from Firefox and Chrome to Pale Moon and Aviator. Not much changed in appearance, but browsing speed and security increased many times over. The only problem I have with Aviator is that for some reason I can't comment here using it, so I comment through PM.

On android I've tried several browsers and feel so far most at home with Opera. It works, doesn't hog battery or memory and is stable. I liked MIUI default browser a lot, but it crashes all the time when reading long comment threads (like on this blog) and they've done nothing to fix that. Any recommendations for better android browsers?

Anonymous Scintan March 08, 2015 4:16 AM  

Note I dropped Firefox over the Eich affair myself. However, I don't see any evidence that the boycott has had any impact whatsoever.

Face palm

Anonymous CarpeOro March 08, 2015 4:28 AM  

Would have commented on the linked article but have zero interest in giving CW any information about me. If that article is an indication of their current writers' skills I have no interest in them marketing or pursuing me - which all the social media manure would attempt. Below is my response to a commenter failing to reach the standard IQ level of discourse (emc something) when he strives to belittle another commentor:

How amazingly devoid of reasoning you are. He mentions an event that is ignored in the article, despite directly correlating to the subject of the article. You flippantly dismiss him as if that disqualifys his statement. You earlier asserted that anyone that thought there was a correlation lived in a fantasy world because "The vast majority of browser users don't even know who Brendan Eich is" and "a large portion of browser users don't even know what a browser is."

Let's just skip the rest of the of your earlier comment whining about government is there to protect you from feelbad because words. Total SJW drivel and 1984 Goodspeak. Let's just address the first two assertions.
1) "The vast" yadda yadda. Until this event, I had no clue who Eich was. When it occurred, and frankly either better informed or insightful writers mentioned it, I took notice. As did many others - hence the migration away from the software. Any company controlled by such petty, vindictive, and controlling people as SJWs is going to produce substandard updates once the focus has shifted from excellence to the SJW "slavery is freedom, free speech is not free" meme. Smart people know when to cut their losses.
2) "a large portion of browser users don't even know what a browser is". Really. You managed to stumble on the fact that IE and Google have larger shares in the two areas because they come preinstalled, yet you spout this drivel. I think the odds are pretty high that the people that searched out the install for FF in the first place know what a browser is. Some may even have been able to read your comment. Apparently many, like myself and the commentator above made a conscious decision and removed it. I had used FF for years after searching for the download and installing it on my machines. After reading about why the Eich step down or was fired (I don't honestly recall or care anymore), I decided that the controllers of the application failed to meet my ethical standards. Now, taking into account that the use of FF was a choice made from some knowledge by myself and more than just the above poster, I'd say the choice has been made once again to cease using it. You may not like the timeline, but the two events line up and since the whining SJWs can't force us to go back we are making a choice for FREEDOM.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2015 March 08, 2015 4:32 AM  

Just converted to Pale Moon and an immediate improvement on speed. If I'm still happy in a week Chrome will be a permanent uninstall. Thanks for the help.

And spare a thought today of MH370, Diego Garcia, WTC 7. This whole thread is really about how much loyalty the nations have shown Jesus Christ. Think it over. Destruction had a back door.

Anonymous CarpeOro March 08, 2015 4:41 AM  

@Jon - Consider this. Is your argument that people should stay on FF despite the downward spiral in not just ethics but quality, just to spite the larger share browser companies? You are unlikely to get a bigger shift to another alternative other than Palemoon without supplying technical reasons as it has been the subject of various discussions and even a thread or two (I think). I have been in IT for a couple decades and am by no means above average here in technical knowledge. Proposals or suggestions without substantive information will not get much attention from the Dread Ilk.

Anonymous Diomedes March 08, 2015 4:41 AM  

@rycamor "this chart would suggest that the Eich affair has made a difference."

How? The StatCounter, GetClicky and W3Counter numbers from that page all show FireFox peaking around Jan. 2010, and declining ever since. W3Counter numbers put the largest year-on-year drop between Jan '11 and Jan '12.

@Danby "That clearly started happening well before they forced Eich out, and has continued to today."

That may well be (though you don't offer any evidence for that assertion, either). But Vox is referencing the twelve months between Feb '14 and Feb '15 and explicitly connects it to the Eich affair. I'm looking for numbers to corroborate that claim.

Anonymous Apollo March 08, 2015 6:06 AM  

Heres an interesting rant on GDC which some may be interesting:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2y30o2/gdcrant_this_years_gdc_wasdifferent/

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 08, 2015 7:43 AM  

The death of Firefox is an interesting example of the idealized SJW business model at work.

First of all Mozilla is a non-profit. Every SJW wants to work at a non-profit and pull down a six figure salary doing it. Being a non-profit automatically makes it a virtue industry, so you have SJW bragging rights for working at it.

Eich was brought down by an SJW within the organization, who was heading up an off mission vanity project of his own. It was ridiculous to watch it happening.

Eich was valuable to the organization, probably a bad choice for CEO but Mozilla couldn't attract anyone good by then. None the less Eich was tossed over the side at the behest of a man, who should have been treated like chipmunk that just bit a tiger on the dick. His entire project should have scrapped along with everyone who worked on it as example to others. Instead this useless drone got to do the social justice victory dance over Eich's grave. All the other SJWs at Mozilla were patting him on the back for wrecking their company.

Mozilla is nearing the typical endstate for any Progressive business. If it doesn't get a government grant soon, it won't survive.

OpenID simplytimothy March 08, 2015 7:58 AM  

I use Opera on Linux and it works well enough for daily use. I have had issues with javascript being very slow on twitter and with embedded video 'leaking' into other tabs. I am 'done' with web development, so I have not attempted to explore its developer tools (firefox was my goto for those and I choose not to use google products)

OpenID simplytimothy March 08, 2015 8:09 AM  

His entire project should have scrapped along with everyone who worked on it as example to others. Instead this useless drone got to do the social justice victory dance over Eich's grave.


I ran across Brandon Eich's name in a post at Chaos Manor

Wow, followup to the previous item: EFF has submitted an amicus brief in support of Google with a list of names looking like a Who’s Who from the Computer Science Hall of Fame: Vint Cerf, Ken Thompson (UNIX), Bjarne Stroustrup (C++) , Alfred Aho, Peter Weinberger and Brian Kernighan (the A, W and K in UNIX’ awk), Alan Kay and Peter Deutsch (Smalltalk), Brendan Eich (Javascript), Ed Felten and Bruce Schneier (security), Mitch Kapor (Lotus), Ray Kurtweil, Tim Paterson (86-DOS); https://www.eff.org/document/amicus-brief-computer-scientists-scotus


Eich will prosper.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2015 10:23 AM  

> This is a misplaced vendetta.

You pick your fights, we'll pick ours.

> Yes, the Eich affair was bad, but it's not like Google, Apple or Microsoft would do things any differently.

I run Linux. Using IE or Safari isn't an option. And my particular distro doesn't include Chrome by default.

> And at least Mozilla respects your privacy.

They fired the CEO over a political contribution. If the value privacy that much, would they even have cared?

> They are definitely the lesser evil...

The firing of Eich shows that they're not.

> ...and I will continue to use them and hope enough others do to keep them going.

Yeah. Let us know how that works out for you.

> So which browser do you use?

Pale Moon, Opera, and Lynx.

> The problem with Pale Moon and the others is that they aren't even a blip on the radar, whereas Firefox is (was) a legitimate competitor.

Was is the operative term here, so obviously you should switch to Chrome post haste, shouldn't you?

And I use Linux. What makes you think I care about market share?

Blogger Corvinus March 08, 2015 11:45 AM  

At least we agree on this. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are switching from Firefox are switching to Chrome, Safari or IE.

@Jon
I really don't think so. The reason I was using Firefox in the first place was because it worked better on my system than Chrome or IE, and I continued using it until other posters here mentioned Pale Moon, which I switched to because it was a fork of Firefox.

Chrome and IE are pieces of junk. And Safari is used on Mac systems. Your assumption is that people will jump to inferior browsers because of the Eich affair, but that is simply not the case.

Blogger Corvinus March 08, 2015 11:50 AM  

And I use Linux. What makes you think I care about market share?

Ha ha ha. +1

Anonymous Jack Amok March 08, 2015 12:10 PM  

Regarding the GDC rant Apollo linked to:

I saw a lot more people with dyed hair than I remember....Of course being in a creative field, there were always the occasional weird and crazy wacky fashion styled people, but they were always artists...I doubt majority of the multi colored hair crew has gotten past making crappy html web link based decision making "adventures"... I met a lot less skilled developers, just in general, or maybe I'm just getting older and more experienced. As game development becomes more accessible, and cheaper, the barrier to entry is lowered quite a bit...

So, what he's basically saying is that with the lower barrier to entry, more marginally talented people are entering the field. But instead of being busy little beavers making games (like most of my team), they're off partying at a convention. We sent one guy - our producer - so that he could meet with a bunch of other people at once. He wasn't there for the panels or breakout sessions.

The panels, even the serious ones like how to write a Unity shader, are fluff. I can get far better information on writing a Unity shader with a web search. But I suppose you need something to justify everyone showing up in the same city to go to parties, meet people, and make deals.

As long as a convention remembers that's what it's for, it can survive.

Anonymous HardReturn¶ March 08, 2015 1:20 PM  

I switched to Palemoon last year at home and work after the McCarthyite treatment of Eich. Works great except for occasional video hassles just like FF. Last month TPTB at work came around and said I had to get rid of it as new policy due to not being on list of "approved" browsers. Showing IT staff how it was just optimized FF without the flab, he said "I know it's better, but you'll just have to suffer with the rest of us."

Anonymous sawtooth March 08, 2015 2:16 PM  

Fire Fox, immediately!
Terminate your relationship those despicable, thought policing, hive dwellers.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2015 3:31 PM  

> Last month TPTB at work came around and said I had to get rid of it as new policy due to not being on list of "approved" browsers.

Ask him how you get it on the list of approved browsers. And if you can't, this article may be of interest to you: http://www.palemoon.org/palemoon-portable.shtml

In general, you might want to check out the PortableApps website at http://portableapps.com/

Now, some companies have gone as far as disabling the USB ports on their machines, and in that case you're pretty much out of luck. But it doesn't sound like that's the case here.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing March 08, 2015 5:53 PM  

I switched to Pale Moon last year for the same reasons everyone else has. My problem with it is more recent. I can't use Pale Moon to comment here any more. I've been using IE to comment. Has anyone else had that problem?? I suspect it's because the spam captcha doesn't appear in Pale Moon, but does in IE??

I'm just a user, not a techie. My nerd zone is horticulture, and for obvious reasons, I expect exactly zero posts where I can return the favor and help an Ilk out :)

Anonymous Corvinus March 08, 2015 6:11 PM  

@Bird on a Wing

Seems to work fine here. I get the "prove you're not a robot" button, but otherwise it works.

Blogger Corvinus March 08, 2015 6:12 PM  

Rather, I get the "prove you're not a robot", and NO captcha, but it still works.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing March 08, 2015 6:20 PM  

Yeah, I get the "prove you're not a robot" box and no captcha, and it doesn't work.

Anonymous Supernaut March 08, 2015 6:20 PM  

I totally echo Koanic's sentiment. Pale moon just works faster. I don't want bells and whistles, I want a browser that is quick, efficient, and just downloads and displays my content ASAP.

When I first switched to FF from IE back in FF's hey day, it was the exact same thing. IE had become so slow and bloated, and switching to FF was an immediately obvious major upgrade in speed and functional usage.

By the time the Eich affair broke and Vox urged everyone to tryout Pale Moon, I had not realized just how slow and degraded FF had become. Upon loading PM, I experienced a near identical effect of the IE - FF switch with how much quicker Pale Moon worked over the bloated, SJW-degraded FF.

Hell, Pale Moon even crashes better. By the last few versions of FF, if I opened too many tabs or a java script on one of the tabs would stall out my CPU, not even Ctrl+Alt+Del would work. I would have to turn off the power just to do a complete system reboot.

With Pale Moon, on the rare occasion it stops responding, I either walk away and do something else, usually to find it working after about 5-10 minutes, or a Ctrl+Alt+Del almost instantly works in stopping Pale Moon, and I often can restart Pale Moon a minute or two later with no problems.

At this point, if I found out Pale Moon's primary developers were SJW feminist-mangina-gamma scum, I would still use it until something better and easier to use came along.
The fact that switching to Pale Moon was an opportunity to give the finger to SJW entryists at mozilla was just icing on the cake.

Blogger rycamor March 08, 2015 7:14 PM  

Diomedes March 08, 2015 4:41 AM

@rycamor "this chart would suggest that the Eich affair has made a difference."

How? The StatCounter, GetClicky and W3Counter numbers from that page all show FireFox peaking around Jan. 2010, and declining ever since. W3Counter numbers put the largest year-on-year drop between Jan '11 and Jan '12.


Did you not see on the graph that Firefox was experiencing a small upswing in usage right up to the point Eich was ousted? I suspect that was Mozilla's last chance to regain relevance and establish a clear technical lead again in the market. Opportunity not only lost, but smashed to the ground and stomped to oblivion.

Anonymous Viidad March 08, 2015 7:51 PM  

Pale Moon does not work on Mac.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2015 8:48 PM  

> Pale Moon does not work on Mac.

There seems to be a port, though it's very much beta or even alpha. See

http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=7250

for the details. I'm sure they'd welcome another tester.

OpenID countenance March 08, 2015 8:50 PM  

ESR thinks it was Eich:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6688

Anonymous bendover March 08, 2015 9:28 PM  

The current stats for FireFox are probably even high considering that many people who switch to PaleMoon (and possibly other browsers) don't change the user agent reported, so FireFox still gets the credit for the traffic.

Anonymous Anonymous March 09, 2015 3:35 AM  

Vox -

You were on this before most anyone . . .

At least they are catching up with you . . .

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2893514/an-incredibly-shrinking-firefox-faces-endangered-species-status.html

jb

Blogger MrNiceguy March 09, 2015 10:15 AM  

As far as Portable Apps, you don't even need to have USB access. The portable PaleMoon can be unzipped to any folder, and the same is true of everything on the Portable App site.

Blogger Alec Rawls March 09, 2015 10:38 AM  

I didn't realize how leftist Mozilla is until I recently saw the Firefox home page displaying a celebratory not about the FCC's new "net neutrality" program. Really, there is ANYONE in tech who is in favor of open ended government regulation of the internet, never mind on the disastrous chartered government monopoly model used to keep investment and competition down in the phone industry. I thought they had a libertarian ideology. Apparently not.

Blogger TheCitadel March 09, 2015 11:21 PM  

Killing Firefox will be a stunning victory for Reactionaries. I was using the browser only for its downloader add-on, but since Mrtzc went kaput, I have no more use for it. Opera from now on.

Now it is true that 99.8% of all tech companies are liberal and its impossible to avoid all their products, but Mozilla's brazenness should be disciplined to send a message. Destroy this engine and it will rise above Gamergate in terms of significance.

Blogger James Higham March 11, 2015 7:17 AM  

Very simple for me - would no longer run on my Mac.

Anonymous Phero March 11, 2015 9:48 PM  

"Pick a name, please, Anonymous. Otherwise your comments will be deleted."
oops that was me.

Interesting discussion, I do remember being annoyed by a political statement on my homepage a while ago, but i think that like most I'm just hoping for an update that will take WaterTurtle back to the old FireFox.

Next click will be Pale Moon download, keen to try that out.

Anonymous Hrw-500 January 23, 2016 3:13 PM  

Brendan Eich develop a new browser named Brave. http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/20/copy-new-internet-browser-brave-announced/

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