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Tuesday, March 31, 2015

The Toad tries to walk one back

The Toad of Tor, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, belatedly realized she'd shown the true face of SJW gatekeeper privilege to the world because she's desperately trying to walk back her words. But it's much too late; we've already impaled her upon them. She even alarmed her fellow SJWs.

"I will admit to having been in kind of an unsettled state since Teresa's "this is the Worldcon award, and others can go do their own thing" post. But then I may well not be the only one in that state, too."

Compare and contrast this statement:
"The Hugos don't belong to the set of all people who read the genre; they belong to the worldcon, and the people who attend and/or support it. The set of all people who read SF can start their own award."
- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, March 29, 2015, 03:43 PM 
 With this one:
"I should have been clearer. Those of us who love SF and love fandom know in our hearts that the Hugo is ours. One of the most upsetting things about the Sad Puppy campaigns is that they're saying the Hugo shouldn't belong to all of us, it should just belong to them."
- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, March 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
Like all SJWs, the Toad of Tor is a shameless liar. First, the Sad Puppies have NEVER said the Hugos should just belong to us. We haven't said it, we haven't implied it, and in fact, none of us have ever even thought it. It's not even remotely credible to claim that a group of "outsiders", of "thugs" and "reavers" and "nobodies" who aren't "part of the community" have ever believed that something that has been under Tor's control for 30 years just belongs to us. Teresa Nielsen Hayden is not only lying, she is insulting the intelligence of every single person who reads her words.

What we have said, what we continue to say, and what we will continue to prove, is that the Hugo Awards do NOT belong to the small group of SJWs led by Tor Books, who for the last 15 years have been handing awards to mediocre diversity lit written by SJWs and their pet minorities. In their eyes, it's a good thing to be celebrated when minorities such as Saladin and Jeminsin are nominated for awards. It's a bad thing to be decried when minorities such as Correia and Day are nominated for them.

The only people who have claimed ownership of the Hugos is Teresa Nielsen Hayden and the SJWs. They are already clamoring for rules changes before the nominations have even been announced. The Toad is one of those affiliated with Tor who have, somewhat successfully, turned the Hugos (and the Nebulas, for that matter), into the Best SJW-Endorsed Writers of the Year award. The Toad obviously knows how badly she screwed up because she's resorting to a ridiculous technicality in order to rewrite the narrative and deny that she said what she quite clearly said:
"When I say the Hugos belong to the worldcon, I’m talking about the literal legal status of the award. But I also know that one of the biggest reasons the rocket is magic is because it spiritually belongs to all of us who love SF."
- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, March 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
Sure you were. It "spiritually belongs" to everyone, so they can fuck off "and start their own award". That makes sense. Sad Puppies 3 leader Brad Torgersen responds in his own inimitable fashion:
We. Matter. In fact, we have always mattered. Everyone who ever came to love and cherish SF/F in ways not vetted and approved by you, by TruFans, or by SMOFs.

And we’re not going away. Not this year. Not next year. Not the year after that.

We’re not here to destroy the field, nor the Hugos.

We’re here to keep you from greedily clutching the award to your chest, while the field sinks beneath the waves.
That is precisely what Sad Puppies is about. As for Rabid Puppies, we don't want to destroy the field or the Hugos either. We want to destroy the SJWs. We want to crush them into dust. And we will.

If you're not already marching with the Evil Legion of Evil under one Puppy banner or another, I encourage you to join us. We can always use the reinforcements, and as other Sad and Rabid Puppies can testify, it is invigorating to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the croaking lamentations of their women.

As Brad said, we're not going away next year. And with Kate the Impaler holding the black standard, we're not going to be inclined to show any mercy to the liars and the con artists. Nor, I suspect, will GamerGate.
I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions.
- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, March 30, 2015, 11:25 PM
UPDATE: And here Larry and I were repeatedly accused of gaming the Hugos last year. I told them I didn't, that I had nothing to do with it, but they didn't believe me. If Jason Sanford is correct, perhaps they will now admit the accusation was false.

Labels: , ,

100 Comments:

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 31, 2015 8:34 AM  

It's always what they say when you need the ammunition to use against them

Blogger Salt March 31, 2015 8:49 AM  

Those of us who love SF and love fandom know in our hearts that the Hugo is ours.

I know how the Toad of Tor defines "those of us" as she croaks, "the Hugo is ours". She's reeling over her own words while digging herself deeper by falsely attempting to reframe her meaning. Sad Puppies are not saying the Hugo is ours, it's saying the Hugo is not yours.

SJWs are their own worse enemy.

Anonymous Tom March 31, 2015 9:00 AM  

"..it is invigorating to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the croaking lamentations of their women."

If you can tell which ones are the women...

OpenID cailcorishev March 31, 2015 9:10 AM  

In the previous thread on this, someone drew an analogy to the Oscars, which are voted on by a small elite within the industry. The difference, though, is that when fans sit around debating the nominations, Hollywood embraces that and turns it into part of the event, rather than saying, "Shut up, plebs; these are our awards, not yours!"

These SF/F SJWs are just so dumb.

Blogger S1AL March 31, 2015 9:13 AM  

But, but, but... Vox, don't you know that Conan is a cis-white-fascist-racist-evil-monger? How date you associate with that image?!?

/s

Anonymous bw March 31, 2015 9:18 AM  

I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges

That encapsulates an SJW perfectly. That's why they're Statists. Coercive force by a third party to do what the SJWs themselves could never do in Nature. And of course the State and those behind it love for stupid people to bring more disorder and weakness forward - in fact, they have been the tempter and encourager all along. Much easier to rule over a degraded populace and culture by putting the dregs, who are divided against their own minds and love lies, out front.
How very liberal of this totalitarian slut.

Anonymous The other robot March 31, 2015 9:19 AM  

OT, but it seems that while a majority of true Scotsmen voted for independence, it was immigrants who defeated them:

Independence referendum figures revealed: Majority of Scots born here voted YES while voters from elsewhere in UK said NO

Blogger AmyJ March 31, 2015 9:21 AM  

"One of the most upsetting things about the Sad Puppy campaigns is that they're saying the Hugo shouldn't belong to all of us, it should just belong to them."

Does she honestly think anyone bought that turnaround? Even the most blindly robotic SJW has to see through that blatant, and not even well written, lie. Those are her own words, with Sad Puppies slapped on it.

She truly is a vile toad of a human being (can't bring myself to call her a woman).

Anonymous The other robot March 31, 2015 9:21 AM  

don't you know that Conan is a cis-white-fascist-racist-evil-monger?

I thought that was a reference to Temujin.

Anonymous Stg58 / Animal Mother March 31, 2015 9:24 AM  

WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 31, 2015 9:28 AM  

If you can tell which ones are the women...

That is a fairly major issue here.

Blogger Josh March 31, 2015 9:34 AM  

I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions.

She's completely delusional.

Blogger JDC March 31, 2015 9:36 AM  

They cannot be trusted. When they speak they lie, and then when confronted or shown the error of their ways they try to stop the leaky dike with, "let me be clearer," and "it's a spiritual affair." This one of the more blatant examples of projection I have read about in some time.

Anonymous Steveo March 31, 2015 9:37 AM  

"The Hugos don't belong to the set of all people who read the genre; they belong to the worldcon, and the people who attend and/or support it. The set of all people who read SF can start their own award."
- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, March 29, 2015, 03:43 PM


I'm so confused... so Teresa N/H, a Hugo nominated (multiple times) SF writer, can't put together a clear & concise statement so that people can understand her? Words like "don't belong" & "...(they) can start they own awards" are so hard. Where can someone find a Hugo award winning Professional Editor to help with that writing deficit? Where?? Where???

Anonymous Rolf March 31, 2015 9:40 AM  

Ironic. One f the Left's mantras is "do it for the children," (while they practice "do it to the children), but that's exactly why I wrote the story I did. Amid the dreck of movies and sci-fi books I saw being produced today, I wasn't seeing anything I'd like my own children reading or watching. I found myself reaching for the classics on my shelf, and older movies, because the new stuff was either warped, twisted, dark, and sick, or at the very least dystopian and angst-ridden, or else incredibly shallow with not real story, and were nothing more than a platform for delivering gratuitous sex and violence. Now I've got nothing against sex or violence per se, but needless, mindless, "gotta top the last movie in depravity" stuff is pointless.

One of my kids' (the oldest is a tween) favorite movies is Captain Horatio Hornblower, with Gregory Peck. One of the next most favorite is a classic Robin Hood. Why? There is some violence, but the hero is clearly a good man, and the story has context that makes sense. Morality matters. Even they see that.

So, the awards matter. Who gets them matters. Because the people who HAVE been getting them have been producing crap for a product for WAY too long. When I first read Barbara Hambly long ago, I thought it was new and different to have the myopic, weak, clumsy, goofy male lead, etc. But each of the books had the same "go against stereotype" hero and heroine, and things started going downhill fast from there. I haven't bought more than a dozen newly written sci-fi in more than 25 years, and half of those were in the last year from things I found after publishing my own and finding a more comprehensible writing community.

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 9:42 AM  

Please, please, please bring Gamergate into this.

I mean, if I saw that the enemy had one group that was the only group to decisively crush any and all attempts to destroy them, I wouldn't do anything to expand their area of operations.

If the gamergate sleuths start digging into the connections in the SJW literati, who know what they'll find?

Anonymous Rolf March 31, 2015 9:42 AM  

Typical of the left. A simple declaration of being a criminal is enough. It's the accusation that matter. Note that she doesn't cite any law under which SP should be charged, simply that the "Justice" department should declare it to be.

The projection of a thirst for power, and a visceral hatred for all that oppose her, it clear.

Anonymous Peter Garstig March 31, 2015 9:43 AM  

She is not contradictory. In her initial statement: set of all people who read SF [should create own award]. In her correction: [Hugo belongs to] those of us who love SF and love fandom.

So, what she meant was that those reading SF but don't love SF (and its fandom) should create their own award.

You all get your act together now.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 31, 2015 9:43 AM  

The Hugos don't belong to the set of all people who read the genre; they belong to the worldcon, and the people who attend and/or support it.

Nothing is worse for an SJW than accidental honesty. How did she let that happen?

That is however her honest, real opinion. The corollary is that the Worldcon, is STILL the true heart of Sci Fi fandom. They honestly believe this remains the case. It's not of course. SJW entryist rot has taken it's toll and most of us wouldn't be caught dead there now.

But they pretend that Worldcon still has the reputation it did when Frank Herbert won for Dune Or when Zelazny won for Lord of Light.

Bad news guys, Red Shirts killed the rep.

Blogger Josh March 31, 2015 9:46 AM  

Perhaps we show mercy to the poor dear, considering that her husband is apparently incapacitated at the moment:

And like every practitioner of our brave modern lifestyle of staring at screens while idly mousing for hours at a time, I’ve had small bouts of RSI pain.
But for the last couple of weeks I’ve suddenly been experiencing the worst RSI pain of my life. Basically, I’ve got constant and often unmanageable pain in my entire right arm, from the shoulder down to the back of my hand. For a great deal of this time I’ve found it nearly impossible to type more than a few words. Needless to say, my sleep patterns are a wreck.


The horrors.

Anonymous Hong Hu Shi March 31, 2015 9:52 AM  

Vox, you gotta add various Puppy standards to 3DV... Hordes of orcs marching under the RP flag would be great.

Anonymous cheddarman March 31, 2015 10:00 AM  

I hope that Kate the Impaler is a direct descendant of Vlad Tepes or has some kind of spiritual connection with him. Perhaps she had a vision of Vlad urging her to free science fiction from the SJWs when she visited his castle in present day Romania?

Anonymous EH March 31, 2015 10:00 AM  

I would like to attend science fiction conventions, but I'm afraid I might catch fat.

Anonymous Peter March 31, 2015 10:03 AM  

My favorite part is where TNH complains that some authors on the SP slate, who are "respectable members of the SF community" are finally getting the recognition they deserve.

Second, the nominees on the Sad Puppy slate who got onto the ballot. Indications are that a fair number of them, maybe a majority, are respectable members of the SF community who, for one reason or another, are approved of by the SPs while not being ideologically Sad Puppies themselves. This means they’ve dreamed of winning the Hugo, just like all our other writers and artists and editors. They might not have had any real expectation of winding up on the ballot this year, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t wish for it with all the pure luminous desire of Ralphie wishing for a Red Ryder BB gun. They’ve been put in a horrible position. I mean, I’ve wanted a Hugo since I was in middle school, but I dreamed of being given one by SF community, not Larry Correia.

She's essentially saying, "You'll get nominated when I say you get nominated and win when I say you win, not before. And if you get nominated despite me fighting against it, I'll be, [sniff], forced to vote against you." Utter hypocrisy and self-delusion.

Blogger S1AL March 31, 2015 10:03 AM  

@robot - Conan, what is best in life?: https://youtu.be/6PQ6335puOc

Blogger Krul March 31, 2015 10:05 AM  

Peter Garstig - So, what she meant was that those reading SF but don't love SF (and its fandom) should create their own award.

Oh, of course. She wasn't talking about "the set of all people who read the genre", she was talking about all those bizarre masochistic bogeymen who spend their time reading a genre that they dislike. Those guys, they're everywhere! Gotta watch out for 'em.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell March 31, 2015 10:10 AM  

Clearly she writes whatever diarrhea comes to mind and doesn't think of what she's actually saying.

Anonymous Strange Aeons March 31, 2015 10:14 AM  

When an SJW toad tells lies, that's amphibbin'

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 31, 2015 10:17 AM  

Yes, which ones are the women or the gammatude men. Neither are rational nor able or willing to be honest so I dont know but...

She has unfortunately caught my permanent attention;

Recall Her "Evil Cackle" will be interesting when or if she reveals that other persona.

Backtracking failed.

Anonymous DMM March 31, 2015 10:26 AM  

"#739 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: March 30, 2015, 10:54 PM:

Teresa, #737: The problem here is that it's an unequal contest. We can make their names mud. They can make our lives, and the lives of anyone we know, a living hell. These are not equivalent situations.

I've said before that the only reliable way to be permanently rid of a stalker is for the stalker to die. That's still true. "

That sounds like a threat. I wonder how much emotional distress these types of death threats will cause. Perhaps its a question left to the courts?

Anonymous Ostar March 31, 2015 10:30 AM  

"...something that has been under Tor's control for 30 years..."

The decline of SFF just about coincides with that time span. And it crystalizes to me why I just tended to avoid any Tor books starting in the 90's.

Anonymous MrGreenMan March 31, 2015 10:35 AM  

Some people should not tweet, and, if they have any actual caring relations or friends, they should be kept from it how you would keep a certified loon from self-harm.

Blogger slarrow March 31, 2015 10:37 AM  

I'm reminded of a quote from a movie called Other People's Money. Danny DeVito's character is describing a company he wants to take over and sell off the assets. He describes the company thusly:

"We're dead alright. We're just not broke. And you know the surest way to go broke? Keep getting an increasing share of a shrinking market. Down the tubes. Slow but sure."

That's what's happened with SJWs and SFF over the past several decades. SP and RP want to try to reverse the shrinkage and expand the market. But since that would inevitably dilute their share of that market, the SJWs are losing their minds.

Blogger Noah B March 31, 2015 10:38 AM  

"I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions."

Hilarious. Nice clarification.

Anonymous The other robot March 31, 2015 10:41 AM  

@robot - Conan, what is best in life?: https://youtu.be/6PQ6335puOc

My bad. I thought it was this one The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies by Gengis Khan (AKA Temujin).

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian March 31, 2015 10:42 AM  

Calling me with your dog whistles.

"Lamentations of their women" is the blubbering of their land whales in this instance.

Anonymous Nathan March 31, 2015 10:48 AM  

@Alexander,

I agree. But at the same time I also have to wonder if this is a rallying cry by TNH for similar Right People in other fandoms, like games and Gawker readers, to deal with these meddlesome puppies.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell March 31, 2015 10:49 AM  

DMM: The US has the most vigorous free speech protection in the world. It's not really a threat or a call to action as far as I can tell.

Blogger Noah B March 31, 2015 10:50 AM  

"That sounds like a threat. I wonder how much emotional distress these types of death threats will cause. Perhaps its a question left to the courts?"

The way I learned it, a credible threat must include motive, means, and opportunity.

Motive seems to be there. Means are practically ubiquitous, so we can assume the means exist as well. But opportunity? Even with her motorized scooter fully charged, I doubt she could keep up with the average Ilk in a parking lot.

Anonymous FP March 31, 2015 10:51 AM  

"I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions.
- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, March 30, 2015, 11:25 PM"

Ahh, naked hypocrisy.

From Brad's blog:
"Again, the message is plain: get out of our sand box, you other kids from somewhere else. This is our toy, our sand box, our rules, and you don’t get to have it. You don’t count. You don’t matter. Go find your own sand box and your own toy. We don’t like you anyway, and we never did."

Bingo. But woe to anyone who takes their same stance when the sainted lightworkers of the SJW push their values on say, video games. Do as we say, not as we do, peasant.

Anonymous Hugh Jass March 31, 2015 10:53 AM  

"I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges"


The Left wants to shut the Right up...

The Right wants the Left to keep talking...

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 10:57 AM  

Nathan,

Gawker coming would be brilliant. Its the left denying the hugos are political, not the right. The outside partisan groups get called in, the more they have to fight to deny the obvious.

Anonymous Eric Ashley March 31, 2015 10:59 AM  

I thought Conan was quoting a certain Asiatic despot.

Now, I've been accused of 'intellectual dishonesty' by Patricia Nielsen Hayden. It may have had something to do with my using Vader's line 'all too easy' after smacking some of their arguements.
In any case, I got banned, and right quickly. And I'm pretty well mannered.

At the time, I consoled myself with the comment....if you sit by a river, your enemies will float by....and so it seems it is happening. I wonder if i see the works of the Lord....

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man March 31, 2015 11:05 AM  

Rolf: "Ironic. One f the Left's mantras is "do it for the children," (while they practice "do it to the children), but that's exactly why I wrote the story I did. Amid the dreck of movies and sci-fi books I saw being produced today, I wasn't seeing anything I'd like my own children reading or watching. I found myself reaching for the classics on my shelf, and older movies, because the new stuff was either warped, twisted, dark, and sick, or at the very least dystopian and angst-ridden, or else incredibly shallow with not real story, and were nothing more than a platform for delivering gratuitous sex and violence."

Ironic indeed.

'Twas not so long ago that Progressives decried things like the Hays Code and the Comic Code Authority for overly strict censorship, pushing for more and more leniency in what was permissible to release.

They got their way, leading to things like this (may be NSFW) and this...which are now being attacked by feminist would-be censors.

Be careful what you ask for...you just might get it.

Anonymous automatthew March 31, 2015 11:08 AM  

If we wanted to destroy the Hugos, we'd be running a Retarded Puppies campaign, to ensure the nomination of the worst possible SJW dreck.

Blogger Student in Blue March 31, 2015 11:15 AM  

If Jason Sanford is correct, perhaps they will now admit the accusation was false.

I read the link, and I'm a bit lost. Could someone explain to me the A->B->C of the claim Vox is making?

Anonymous Nathan March 31, 2015 11:20 AM  

Seriously, the best way to deal with us is to open up the membership. Dilute us. The nominations for the most prestigious award in science fiction shouldn't be decided by only 50-100 people. Open the doors, bring in thousands and tens of thousands new voters so that any campaign is weakened. 300 people is a lot only when 50-100 votes are needed and only about a thousand total, if that, nominate. 300 people isn't much when 500-1000 votes are needed because ten thousand people nominated.

Open the flood gates.

Anonymous Nathan March 31, 2015 11:27 AM  

As for Sanford's "I predict a backlash is about to wash over the Sad Puppies. And when it does, it'll be interesting to see what happens next in our genre." I do have to laugh. Baen's not going to drop Larry or Brad over this. Roc will not drop The Dresden Files. KJA will still find work. What will happen will be further damage to the Tor brand and a bigger push towards indie.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man March 31, 2015 11:34 AM  

From the Jason Sanford link:

"I predict a backlash is about to wash over the Sad Puppies. And when it does, it'll be interesting to see what happens next in our genre."

My prediction: If the SP campaign actually swept the nominations in certain categories, there will be a counter-campaign for No Award in said categories. And if there are non-SP nominees in any given category, there will be a counter-campaign for one of those nominees, instead.

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 11:35 AM  

Not only will they not drop their big money names, but I would think that within the brick-and-mortar publishers of Science Fiction, anything that takes Tor down a peg or two will not be actively discouraged.

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 11:37 AM  

That would be super. You want to predict what the "vast cross-section of fandom" will think when they see SJWs campaigning to give Jim Butcher 'no award'?

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man March 31, 2015 11:42 AM  

TNH: "The Hugos don't belong to the set of all people who read the genre; they belong to the worldcon, and the people who attend and/or support it. The set of all people who read SF can start their own award."

Then the people who win the awards should only put "Hugo Award Winner" on the covers of the books they sell at Worldcons, shouldn't they? I mean, if the award doesn't belong to other SF readers, then it shouldn't be used to market books to those people either.

Fair is fair.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man March 31, 2015 11:44 AM  

Alexander: "You want to predict what the "vast cross-section of fandom" will think when they see SJWs campaigning to give Jim Butcher 'no award'?"

You believe they'll actually think that far ahead?

Anonymous Salt March 31, 2015 11:44 AM  

Seriously, the best way to deal with us is to open up the membership

Membership is open. Join. Vote. There is no litmus test to pass.

It's pissing off the SJWs that the puppies are doing just that, and openly declaring what we're about.

Blogger S1AL March 31, 2015 11:46 AM  

@robot/Eric Ashley - Robert Howard borrowed very, very heavily from history, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he paraphrased that. That seems to be a shared trait of the early giants of fantasy.

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 11:48 AM  

No, I don't. that's why I think it'll be super when they do it.

Blogger Markku March 31, 2015 12:00 PM  

I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions.

Yes, we know you do. But thanks for putting it on record, and in a very quotable way at that.

Blogger Noah B March 31, 2015 12:04 PM  

"I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions."

The Cani nostri don't forget this sort of treachery.

Anonymous Jack Amok March 31, 2015 12:31 PM  

If you can tell which ones are the women...

They're the ones not wearing dresses.

Blogger Guitar Man March 31, 2015 12:41 PM  

Some really stupid people over at the pink SF side. Sanford completely ignored the purpose of Sad Puppies.

Anonymous Scintan March 31, 2015 12:44 PM  

Last year I wrote about how the Hugo Award rules needed to be changed so the awards weren't so easy to game.

And, right there, we see the leftist mindset in action. As I said in an earlier post, it's "One man, one vote, one time" applied as a general approach. In this case, since they're already in power, it will be about manipulating the rules to make sure that they stay there.

The leftist playbook is effective, but it's mostly unimaginative, and it relies almost exclusively on a combination of the threat of retribution and the idiocy of the masses.

Blogger Guitar Man March 31, 2015 12:49 PM  

Last year I wrote about how the Hugo Award rules needed to be changed so the awards weren't so easy to game.

This is what the NFL has been doing to defenses and Bill Belichick.

Blogger John Wright March 31, 2015 12:50 PM  

Mr Garstig, If you are being sarcastic, bravo for the dryness of your wit. If not, you are being absurd. The set of people who read and do not love SF is an empty set.

Indeed, if we define the readership of the genre as those who love it enough to read it, then the statement becomes a logical contradiction.

Anonymous It's Captain Obvious March 31, 2015 12:55 PM  

SJW's summed up easily:

The Hugo is Precious

Blogger Buddy E. March 31, 2015 1:12 PM  

I would also note that Brad seems to have confirmed that she was fired from Tor:

"Brad Torgersen I myself only learned this week. Apparently Patrick (her husband) made sure to keep it hush-hush. Well, word's out. I think she got fired from Boing Boing too. Gee, I wonder why. "

Anonymous BigGaySteve March 31, 2015 1:15 PM  

"I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions."

Its funny because when I broke up with one of my exes the best thing he could come up with to call the cops on me was that I added TSP to my laundry, which was removed from commercial detergent but you can still buy in the paint isle. Yet you can go into gay bars in DC and Miami and see people snorting a more expensive white powder off the counters.

Anonymous BigGaysteve March 31, 2015 1:16 PM  

"The set of people who read and do not love SF is an empty set."

Perhaps they read the previous Hugo award winning novels and didn't love those because badthink.

Anonymous Scintan March 31, 2015 1:17 PM  

It should also be noted that the toad tried to hop back her statement rather than walk it back.

Blogger Felix Bellator March 31, 2015 1:26 PM  

MidAmeriCon membership gets you three years where of voting and nominating. I did receive voting codes and such from Sasquan in order to nominate and vote this year by buying membership in MidAmeriCon: http://midamericon2.org/

Anonymous Nathan March 31, 2015 1:32 PM  

It's a bit hard for TNH to try to pan this off anything other than ingroup politics since she's a Guest of Honor at the next WorldCon.

http://midamericon2.org/guests/patrick-and-teresa-nielsen-hayden/

Blogger slarrow March 31, 2015 1:34 PM  

That's not nice, Scintan.

I mean, seriously, put a trigger warning on statements like that or something. I almost choked on my drink.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus March 31, 2015 1:49 PM  

“"I've said before that the only reliable way to be permanently rid of a stalker is for the stalker to die. That's still true"”

One of their most endearing traits: A larval, red-handed, Che Guevara in every one of them, their impotent rage warms my heart.

The Froghemoth and fellow travelers like Jemesin and McGuire have reach laughably exceeding their grasp. Hence their “appeal” to Authorities. Justice Department indeed.

Someday those “authorities” may neither be willing nor able to enforce SJW diktat , and the Froghemoth will be forced to send an army of weedy little JimChines after us.

I tremble in anticipation.


Anonymous WinstonWebb March 31, 2015 1:56 PM  

Why the Justice Dept angle? Wouldn't it be easier just to feed ideological enemies to her pet Rancor via the trapdoor in front of her dais?

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 2:00 PM  

Eh. Empty rhetoric. Only when she starts comparing us to insects will we have reason to feel legitimately concerned.

Anonymous earl March 31, 2015 2:15 PM  

Try exercise

Anonymous Ain March 31, 2015 3:26 PM  

"I want the Justice Department to declare them a criminal organization and hit them with felony charges. It would not be an excessive response to their actions."

This isn't idle talk. If they had the power, that's what SJWs would do. This is one of many reasons they need to be opposed on all fronts.

Anonymous Peter Garstig March 31, 2015 3:29 PM  

Mr Garstig, If you are being sarcastic, bravo for the dryness of your wit. If not, you are being absurd. The set of people who read and do not love SF is an empty set.

Mr Wright, I'm afraid but I am unable to accept either attribute. I merely tried to logically combine 2 statements by Mrs Hayden. If it was meant sarcastically or if she was being absurd...well, we should ask her.

Now I hope you'll excuse me as I take a glas of wine to moister my dry throat.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus March 31, 2015 3:31 PM  

"This isn't idle talk. If they had the power, that's what SJWs would do. This is one of many reasons they need to be opposed on all fronts.


Agreed. As I said, a larval Che Guevara in the lot of them. Contemptible.

Blogger P.T. Barnumium March 31, 2015 4:00 PM  

I think my favourite part is

"What would I consider dodgy? Obvious gaffes like the ones in 1986, of course. With computerized voting systems, I'd look for some of the same characteristics you see in spamming and astroturfing. You know the drill:

-- Too many similar submissions from one IP address, or from a small group of closely related IP addresses, or from addresses used for other malfeasance.
-- Inadequate differentiation, esp. minor quirks or errors duplicated in supposedly unrelated ballots.
-- Voting an agenda and nothing else. Real fans will have at least a few opinions about other categories.
And so forth.
It must of course be recognized that fans are entitled to vote for an agreed-upon agenda, if that's what they want to do. The difference, I think, is between fans voting for an agenda because they care about SF and the Hugos, and think the agenda will move them in some desired direction; and people using the Hugos as a mechanism to forward some agenda other than recognizing the best work done in the field in the past year."

The level of backwards doublethink on display, particularly from the last point & it's instant self-rebuttal, is astronomical. That someone can (within the space of a single line) demolish their own point so thoroughly speaks to such a demented cocktail of arrant self regard and blatant denial that it's a wonder she isn't permanently glued to the corner rocking and babbling. The fact that she has so many nodding dogs who immediately and fervently agree to every garbled pronouncement, no matter how insane or instantly contradictory, gives her blog the feel of a disturbing form of group therapy.

Needles to say, it's very very funny to watch someone utterly dismantle their basic cognitive function just to shoehorn in the point that THEIR agenda is allowed while OURS is badthink

Anonymous Alexander March 31, 2015 4:11 PM  

Well they have to go with point three, because points one and two undermine their own side so badly.

Seriously, what are they going to do if they were given proof beyond any shadow of a doubt that none of us are Vox Puppets. When we fill out the ballots ourselves and know the works in question.

Well then friends, it's a fighting withdrawal to the rhetorical point three: your agenda doesn't count!

Blogger Joshua Dyal March 31, 2015 4:40 PM  

@robot/Eric Ashley - Robert Howard borrowed very, very heavily from history, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he paraphrased that. That seems to be a shared trait of the early giants of fantasy.

That's certainly true, but Howard didn't write that specific bit of dialogue, since he was long dead, and it doesn't come from any of his stories. That would have to be credited to either John Milius or Oliver Stone borrowing from Genghis Khan, not Howard.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 31, 2015 5:05 PM  

No, no one is talking about or promoting death here.

Just to be clear, when I use the term permanent, my point is clear, I simply follow the persons work, even if the work is good or bad. Either way, its caught my perm interest.

From day one I have stated my emo side; I wish everyone could be healthy, wealthy and happy. The problem is that those things are transient, aside of the Eternal Christ, I look after, note and expose the corrupt, dishonest for the mentally troubled people they are, they are damaged people. Who here would employ Hayden or her type, the Torg dude? Anyone?

I will remind the Hayden SJWmcjizzlers that this is Easter and SJWers are not ruining our Easter week or weekend.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 31, 2015 5:09 PM  

Again no, there are no Vox Day puppets.

I support quality and excellence from the intellectually uprights. John C Wright, Correia, etc.

Today I spent at the hospital and nursing home, Hayden and her miserables should do the same, see the hurt, pain, suffering and ministry of suffering that befalls a fallen humanity. If she wants to be a bitch, very well but it dont fly with me.

Blogger Joshua Dyal March 31, 2015 5:18 PM  

I think it'd be great if Sad Puppy authors, in their acceptance speeches, just gave the audience the finger, mooned them, broke their Hugos over their knees, and walked off-stage.

But I dunno; maybe some of them actually want the things.

Blogger S1AL March 31, 2015 5:31 PM  

"That's certainly true, but Howard didn't write that specific bit of dialogue, since he was long dead, and it doesn't come from any of his stories. That would have to be credited to either John Milius or Oliver Stone borrowing from Genghis Khan, not Howard."

You're right. I was thinking of a quote from the remake when I said that.

Anonymous beerme March 31, 2015 5:53 PM  

If we wanted to destroy the Hugos, we'd be running a Retarded Puppies campaign, to ensure the nomination of the worst possible SJW dreck.
If we wanted to simply destroy the Hugo Awards we would do anything at all. The SJWs have been slowly killing the prestige of the award on their own for years.

Blogger Hound March 31, 2015 6:45 PM  

Retarded puppies is certainly interesting, but it'd run afoul of Poe's Law. As If You Were A Dinosaur My Love amply demonstrated.

Blogger Student in Blue March 31, 2015 6:47 PM  

Seriously though, can someone hold my hand and explain to me what I'm missing here? I'm not sure how Jason Sanford being correct from that link would prove the assertion from a year ago false.

Blogger Vox March 31, 2015 7:15 PM  

I'm not sure how Jason Sanford being correct from that link would prove the assertion from a year ago false.

If the results last year were 5 out of 10 nominations versus 75 out of 75 nominations this year, (both hypothetical examples) then you'd have to be a complete idiot to assume that anyone capable of the latter could have been responsible for the former.

Blogger James Dixon March 31, 2015 7:21 PM  

From Jason: "That said, I hope you realize that most people in fandom do not care for or support political games like this."

But the political games that have been going on for the past 30 plus years are just fine, huh Jason?

Anonymous Giuseppe March 31, 2015 7:27 PM  

I for one feel sorry for the humble and comparatively handsome and intelligent toad. It's association to a what might be better described as a human larva filled with excrement is unmerited.

All I know is that if the Toads of the Earth could understand, they would be crying.

Blogger bob k. mando March 31, 2015 7:33 PM  

Student in Blue March 31, 2015 6:47 PM
I'm not sure how Jason Sanford being correct from that link would prove the assertion from a year ago false.


because Vox recommends his own slate, apart from the SP slate.

it's kind of hard for Vox to be the 'devious mastermind' behind a nefarious and successful SP campaign when
1 - last year SP was run by Larry
2 - last year, Vox was backing a different slate

of course, when you practice magical thinking, anything is possible.

even lovey dovey t-rexs and trannies who don't damage their children.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 31, 2015 9:00 PM  

More support for my theory that social justice warriors are drones programmed by others.

They keep feeding Vox the kind of conflict he likes, and that makes his moral case as strong as possible, and that consolidates his allies as well as possible. Why? Because the attacks that predictably lead to these results are in the social justice warrior playbook, and outside that playbook the social justice warriors have no more wits than wind-up toys.

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii March 31, 2015 9:45 PM  

Yes Nathan, open it up. Have a Million Readers reading, web-logging, hell taking a fracking Lunch, like in Hollywierd. If 90 % of everything is crap, raise the quality of the crap so that it fertilizes more effectively.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 31, 2015 9:51 PM  

Titus Didius Tacitus: "...outside that playbook the social justice warriors have no more wits than wind-up toys."

More importantly, they have no more heart than wind-up toys. But that's another story.

Anonymous Nathan March 31, 2015 10:26 PM  

@Zeke,

Keep putting up those men of straw. The fact that Hugo noms are decided by as few as 50 people means that we need more voters, not fewer.

Blogger Student in Blue March 31, 2015 11:46 PM  

@VD and bob k. mando
Ah, I see. Thank you, both of you, I appreciate it.

Blogger Engineer-Poet April 01, 2015 1:11 AM  

"If we wanted to destroy the Hugos, we'd be running a Retarded Puppies campaign"

I think the SJWs already did that, thus the backlash.  (I see Hound made the same point.)

Speaking of Tor, my local library just added the 3 "Ender's Game" prequels to its tiny selection.  I read the first one, and shouldn't have bothered finishing it.  Is OSC phoning it in, or what?  His co-author has no concept whatsoever of orbital mechanics, radio propagation, or even basic physics like elementary particles.  In short, he's a lit-major's (with a minor in grievance studies and not one science course) idea of what a science fiction author should be.  It's not surprising that it is what is coming out of Tor even under OSC's (alleged) co-authorship.

I have read many things edited by John W. Campbell and Stanley Schmidt.  I cannot imagine anything so ridiculous getting past them; maybe F&SF would have published it in their day, but not Analog.  Then again, it's possible that even F&SF had higher standards then than Tor does now.

"What will happen will be further damage to the Tor brand and a bigger push towards indie."

After reading "Earth Unaware", published in 2012, I'm not sure what's left to be damaged.  It looks like a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

Blogger Markku April 01, 2015 3:05 PM  

I would also note that Brad seems to have confirmed that she was fired from Tor:

"Brad Torgersen I myself only learned this week. Apparently Patrick (her husband) made sure to keep it hush-hush. Well, word's out. I think she got fired from Boing Boing too. Gee, I wonder why. "


This is horrible.

"Toad of Tor" had such excellent alliteration. I doubt we will be able to come up with something as good.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 02, 2015 2:16 PM  

markku: ""Toad of Tor" had such excellent alliteration. I doubt we will be able to come up with something as good."

The Terminated Toad of Tor.

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