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Tuesday, March 10, 2015

This is Christian leadership

The nations of Europe are throwing off the poisoned dream of multiculturalism. And I don't think it is an accident that it is those who successfully survived decades of socialism that are the first to clearly recognize the evils of diversity. From the Prime Minister of Hungary's State of the Nation address:
The Honourable Chair has mentioned wiseacre analysts who take the view that the concept of a civic Hungary (i.e. one based on Christian-democratic, conservative principles) is merely a political product, and that this has somewhat shaken the faith of the members of our political community. I understand the concerns, but I hope for more self-confidence from Reformed Church pastors, let alone ministers. For our flag is flying high; everyone can see that. Everyone can see that we are a people’s party community, based on Christian-democratic foundations – the ideal, guiding star of which is a civic Hungary. I do not think that this would change in the next hundred years....

Hungary gave its own answers to the most important European questions in 2010. Already since 2010, we have been living in the future which many other countries are only just setting out towards or will attempt to reach sooner or later. Europe today continues to huddle behind the moats of political correctness, and has built a wall of taboos and dogmas around itself. In contrast, we took the view that the old pre-crisis world will not return. There are things from past periods which are worth keeping, such as democracy – as far as possible in a form which needs no modifying adjectives; but we must let go of everything that has failed and has broken down. We must let go of these things before they bury us beneath them. We have chosen the future. Those who do not make choices find that instead circumstances will make the choices for them. Those who do not actively decide will find that their lives will be decided for them. We therefore let go of neo-liberal economic policy, and perhaps we did so as late as we possibly could have; we let go of the policy of austerity, just before we were about to share the fate of Greece; we let go of the delusion of the multicultural society before it turned Hungary into a refugee camp, and we let go of liberal social policy which does not acknowledge the common good and denies Christian culture as the natural foundation – and perhaps the only natural foundation – for the organization of European societies. We decided to face the barrage of unfair attacks and accusations, and also let go of the dogma of political correctness.

And as far as I see it, Hungarian people are by nature politically incorrect – in other words, they have not yet lost their common sense.
What a tragedy that the USA does not have such a leader. What a tragedy that we don't even have a nation for such a leader to address.

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120 Comments:

Anonymous Aquila Aquilonis March 10, 2015 12:13 PM  

Did Vox just compliment a Calvinist? Sacrebleu!

Anonymous ZhukovG March 10, 2015 12:18 PM  

So, the spirit of John Hunyadi yet lives in Hungary.

Anonymous tiarosa March 10, 2015 12:25 PM  

What does he mean by "we let go of the policy of austerity"? If "austerity" means "reduced social welfare spending" wouldn't they want to do that?

Anonymous SJW March 10, 2015 12:25 PM  

"The next years will be about hardworking people..."

Shut up, where's my free stuff already?

Anonymous Stickwick March 10, 2015 12:28 PM  

What a tragedy that the USA does not have such a leader. What a tragedy that we don't even have a nation for such a leader to address.

People generally get the leadership they deserve.

Peace and prosperity are wonderful things, but too much and for too long, and they seem to make people complacent and weak. Strength comes from resistance, and we've not had enough to push back against for a long time. The silver lining on the cloud of the coming economic and cultural crash is that it will very likely rouse Americans out of their complacency.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 10, 2015 12:29 PM  

Good.

Anonymous DrTorch March 10, 2015 12:33 PM  

What does he mean by "we let go of the policy of austerity"? If "austerity" means "reduced social welfare spending" wouldn't they want to do that?

That puzzled me too. Austerity has long been considered a Christian virtue.

Blogger Vox March 10, 2015 12:38 PM  

Try to keep in mind that "austerity" in EU terms means you pay money to the international banks before you pay it to your citizens. It's basically a way of keeping a country hooked on debt. There is no point in cutting spending if you're not going to default yet.

Anonymous Porky March 10, 2015 12:43 PM  

The money-quote re: Christian leadership

"We can now see that we shall not have a single moment of peace; we shall be under continuous and ruthless attack, a permanent negative campaign."

Once a population embraces this there is nothing that can stop them.

Blogger jay c March 10, 2015 12:44 PM  

"Those who do not make choices find that instead circumstances will make the choices for them."

Good words.

Blogger Owen March 10, 2015 12:45 PM  

I spent months in Budapest, Hungary in 99, as we were bombing Kosovo (war is hell). Got to travel to the south to a town, called Pecz (I think that's how it's spelled).

Stunning women. Just absolutely gorgeous.

They have a strange/quirky nature in which they appreciate the native. Their language is it's own. There's no Indo-European base. Something to do with when there was a great invasion of Europe from the west. Anyway, I heard on more than one occasion that they thought it was cool how the US refuses to go with the metric system.

There's a degree of almost what I'd call "shame" about the time when they were communist dominated. They didn't like to talk about it.

I can see the same nativist strain in his words. Hungary for cultural Hungarians. Preserve what is unique. To hell with multi-cult.

Blogger MATT March 10, 2015 12:45 PM  

Damnnit. My favorite pornstars are Hungarian

Blogger Owen March 10, 2015 12:46 PM  

That is, during the invasion, Hungary was somehow spared. Or, at least their language wasn't corrupted.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey March 10, 2015 12:50 PM  

I'd be interested to find out how willing they are to cooperate with like-minded Europeans in other countries. Or is it Hungary against the world?

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 12:53 PM  

We learnt from György Bencze something which we now experience personally on a daily basis. He told us that liberals are extremely tolerant – they are only intolerant of fascists. But it is surely not their fault that everyone else – everyone except for them – is a fascist. Yes, we must understand that liberal politics only ever recognizes two kinds of opinion: its own and the wrong one.

I am amazed that a prime minister of a European nation spoke these words publicly. That is leadership. I wish we had such a leader here.

Blogger CDM March 10, 2015 12:54 PM  

Laguna, go here to learn more: http://tinyurl.com/l54zl89

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 12:57 PM  

I'd be interested to find out how willing they are to cooperate with like-minded Europeans in other countries. Or is it Hungary against the world?

See here:

It is time for us to learn to look upon other countries as our equals, and to look upon ourselves as their equals.


I am curious about this remark though:

...we should acknowledge that there is a process of rearmament in Central Europe.

VD, do you have anything to clarify?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 10, 2015 1:02 PM  

MATT: "Damnnit. My favorite pornstars are Hungarian"

Because of leadership such as this, there may be future generations of Hungarian beauties for other men to adore.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 10, 2015 1:04 PM  

Owen: "Hungary for cultural Hungarians. Preserve what is unique. To hell with multi-cult."

Wonderful.

Anonymous Roundtine March 10, 2015 1:06 PM  

Hungary has a legitimately right-wing government that understands the left. After Orban took over in 2010, he cleaned out the leftists from state media and replaced them with right-wingers. He did the judges next. Fidesz got 44% of the vote in 2014 and the far right Jobbik party secured 20% Those are some incredible numbers and a major contrast to the rest of Europe, where many parties such as Sweden Democrats and National Front are left-wing on economic or cultural issues.

Anonymous jack March 10, 2015 1:39 PM  

I believe I would happily vote for this one....

Anonymous guest March 10, 2015 1:58 PM  

And the beat goes on: ABC is looking to remake Uncle Buck with an all-black cast

Anonymous Alexander March 10, 2015 2:00 PM  

Hungary: not particularly thrilled about living under the Turkish boot. I suppose it's an experience that sticks with you.

Anonymous Heh March 10, 2015 2:01 PM  

"ABC is looking to remake Uncle Buck with an all-black cast"

Hope they call it Uncle Buckwheat.

Blogger Owen March 10, 2015 2:04 PM  

ABC is looking to remake Uncle Buck with an all-black cast

Wasn't that The Bernie Mac Show?

Anonymous Freestater March 10, 2015 2:04 PM  

"we let go of the delusion of the multicultural society before it turned Hungary into a refugee camp, and we let go of liberal social policy which does not acknowledge the common good and denies Christian culture as the natural foundation – and perhaps the only natural foundation – for the organization of European societies. We decided to face the barrage of unfair attacks and accusations, and also let go of the dogma of political correctness."


Can you even imagine any current candidate thinking about running for President saying anything close to those words? Even the most right wing "Christian " candidate would likely go on praising immigrants and their culture while making sure to remind us that all religions are to be respected, and don't forget our government is secular! blah blah blah......

Anonymous Freestater March 10, 2015 2:08 PM  

and then there is this boldness which you will never find in an American state of the union address.

"They want to free themselves from the modern-day debt slavery that they were driven into by foreign currency loans. They do not want to see their country thronging with people from different cultures, with different customs, who are unable to integrate; people who would pose a threat to public order, their jobs and livelihoods."

Anonymous Crude March 10, 2015 2:21 PM  

Politicians, politicians. But that speech is inspiring. He sounds like a guy who loves his country - we can't even get politicians to sound like that anymore.

Anonymous Stilicho March 10, 2015 2:23 PM  

Hope they call it Uncle Buckwheat.

[laughs] that's gonna stick

Blogger Owen March 10, 2015 2:33 PM  

He sounds like a guy who loves his country - we can't even get politicians to sound like that anymore.

Your honor, I believe that's "Asked and answered."

Sustained.

Anonymous Billy March 10, 2015 2:34 PM  

I'm sure the demonisation of the Hungarian govt will speed up apace. The bombing campaign will begin, if our CIA's efforts for a Hungary spring do not pan out. Our ZOG gov bringing freedom.

Anonymous Billy March 10, 2015 2:38 PM  

"They do not want to see their country thronging with people from different cultures, with different customs, who are unable to integrate; people who would pose a threat to public order, their jobs and livelihoods" Good shit

Anonymous Billy March 10, 2015 2:40 PM  

Evil Hungarian Nazi's, this is first step in turning everyone into soap and lampshades.

Anonymous Crude March 10, 2015 2:41 PM  

Your honor, I believe that's "Asked and answered."

No, it's a confusion between 'That politician there' and 'Our politicians here'. In my case, being America.

Blogger Owen March 10, 2015 2:46 PM  

Crude,
I apologize. Somehow, had crossed wires and confused you with someone else.

Blogger Marissa March 10, 2015 2:51 PM  

Look at the opposition, what a twerp:

The opposition Együtt (Together) party said that the need to hold an extraordinary meeting six months after the regular meeting in itself indicates that the policy announced in August has failed. As examples for the government’s failures in the past few months, Együtt board member Nóra Hajdu referred to international reactions to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Budapest visit, Orbán’s “extremely unsuccessful” talks in Warsaw, and an “unprecedented chill” in Hungary-US relations.

Hmm, I wonder why?

Anonymous bbtp March 10, 2015 2:53 PM  

Owen: other way around, the Hungarian language is an Asian language mostly related to languages spoken in the Asian part of Russia, plus Finnish, Estonian and Sami. But many of these "Asians" are not what we would expect hearing the world "Asian" -- for example, Udmurts (from a Russian republic north of Kazakhstan) are the most red-headed people on earth.

The old Hungarian language was brought to Europe during the Magyar invasion of Europe, culminating in the conquest of the Carpathian basin in the 8th century A.D. The Magyars spent around 150 years raiding medieval Western Europe, robbing and raping, until they were crushed by the Holy Roman Emperor in 955 and decided to settle down and found a kingdom, which became a Christian kingdom under St. Stephen the King.

These days, the Hungarians are almost 100% Slavs by blood, but their language is the language of the Magyar conquerors, just as Indians in Latin America (usually) speak the language of their Spanish conquerors.

Agreed that Pécs has lots of pretty girls. I was not expecting such a speech from Orbán, perhaps it is a good sign.

-bbtp

Blogger Owen March 10, 2015 2:57 PM  

bbtp,
I appreciate the response. When they were explaining it to me, it seemed confusing. I chalked it up to explaining it in a second language. What I definitely learned is that Spanish and rudimentary German did nothing for me in country.

Blogger LysanderSpooner March 10, 2015 3:02 PM  

"What a tragedy that the USA does not have such a leader."

Perhaps we can get him a Hawaiian birth certificate and a Marrxist Baby Daddy, and who knows, we could make history ;) ;)

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 3:04 PM  

"What a tragedy that the USA does not have such a leader. What a tragedy that we don't even have a nation for such a leader to address."

Christianity has never been America's forte. The country is rational, market driven and generally opposed to the kind of despotic irrationality inherent in christian-based communities. The country just talks a good game.

Anonymous Oy Vey March 10, 2015 3:19 PM  

Christianity has never been America's forte.

Today's pop quiz, kiddies:

How many Great Awakenings were there, and what were they?

Who was behind the abolition movement? Was it rational and market driven?

OpenID bernardbrandt March 10, 2015 3:22 PM  

Je suis Charlie Martel.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 10, 2015 3:29 PM  

Hungary is a nation America is an empire

Anonymous Athor Pel March 10, 2015 3:33 PM  

"SteveO March 10, 2015 3:04 PM
"What a tragedy that the USA does not have such a leader. What a tragedy that we don't even have a nation for such a leader to address."

Christianity has never been America's forte. The country is rational, market driven and generally opposed to the kind of despotic irrationality inherent in christian-based communities. The country just talks a good game. "




Thank you Steve, for giving us all a perfect example of why the public schools should be bulldozed and its administration pilloried.

In the future, before you seek to take your place among adults in their conversations concerning the history of our nation and the world, read some history yourself.

Blogger Noah B March 10, 2015 3:40 PM  

Slow day at media matters I guess.

Blogger Moor March 10, 2015 3:44 PM  

I've been reminded several times here lately of the truth regarding worldviews and systems:

It's not 'whether' but 'which'.

As in, it's not whether there will be a dominant worldview or system in place, only which it will be. One of the great lies of the Left/Liberals/Progressives (pick your title) is that they are somehow replacing the dominant Christian worldview/system with an objective and value-free system in which all worldviews and systems are welcome.

This, of course, leads to exactly what was mentioned in the speech with regard to the way Liberals label everyone else as Fascist (which I've heard called "Soft Despotism") and also leaves the system weak to those who are willing to play the power game (cf. Isis, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.).

Blogger Bies Podkrakowski March 10, 2015 3:53 PM  

I wouldn't be so sure. It probably will end in tears.

Blogger The Remnant March 10, 2015 4:21 PM  

You hit the nail on the head. Those of us (and I include many of the people commenting here) who yearn to lead America out of the abyss cannot do so because America no longer exists, at least not in the sense of a nation occupying the geographic entity of the United States. The only way I see forward is as a resistance by the few against the many; as for the national political stage, it is currently a lost cause.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 4:58 PM  

Christianity has never been America's forte.

"Today's pop quiz, kiddies: How many Great Awakenings were there, and what were they? Who was behind the abolition movement? Was it rational and market driven?"

No religion in school. No religious preference in civic life. Christmas is now a series of remaining shopping days. Easter is Spring break, how did those Great awakenings work out for you?

It's not like America didn't have a choice. Americans could have embraced a Christian world view. Then they saw Darwin. Then they saw the christian hypocrisy and hippcrits. Then the saw the christian lies. Then the saw the demagoguery. And they embraced secularism. There wil be no Christian America. We learned our lesson.

Anonymous A Visitor March 10, 2015 5:09 PM  

We need one of him here.

Blogger Student in Blue March 10, 2015 5:12 PM  

@SteveO
There's a difference between "Christianity has never been America's forte" and "Christianity is not currently America's forte".

You brought evidence for the latter, but not for the former.

Anonymous Freestater March 10, 2015 5:23 PM  

"No religion in school. No religious preference in civic life. Christmas is now a series of remaining shopping days. Easter is Spring break, how did those Great awakenings work out for you?
"

You do realize the top Ivory league schools still have Divinity Schools within them and that people are exiting public secular schools at increasing rates right? I take it you have never been in a Church on Christmas or Easter as well, must have been too busy counting down your shopping days so you could sit at home alone with presents wondering why you even bothered.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 5:27 PM  

"There's a difference between "Christianity has never been America's forte" and "Christianity is not currently America's forte".

You brought evidence for the latter, but not for the former."

The authors of the DoI and the Constitution couldn't even muster a defense of or solid affirmation of the religion. Americans never went out of their way to install an ardent defender of the faith as president. The constitution goes out of its way to dictate no religious test for office.

We have always talked a good game, but never really cared that much about the faith.

Anonymous Steveo March 10, 2015 5:32 PM  

Steve0 - Christianity has never been America's forte???? Do you have any idea how this country even got started? Man that's just stupid stuff...

Embraced secularism... crammed down their throats is more accurate. But never fear 12 disciples took the Good News to the streets and changed human history (you go all in on secularism, great track record there don't you think?) I think 12 more committed Christians are enough to win again, especially when you keep slaughtering your unborn & making most of the rest idiots.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 5:33 PM  

"You do realize the top Ivory league schools still have Divinity Schools within them and that people are exiting public secular schools at increasing rates right? I take it you have never been in a Church on Christmas or Easter as well, must have been too busy counting down your shopping days so you could sit at home alone with presents wondering why you even bothered."

If the most liberal divinity schools in America, among the dwindling number of divinity schools is the best you can muster for .... well for what...the argument that America is devoutly christian?....Then I only reiterate my point. And me...Well, I've probably spent more time in church than you or anyone else who has commented and certainly can remember being at church for nearly every Christmas eve and Easter for decades.

But I recovered.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 5:36 PM  

"Embraced secularism... crammed down their throats is more accurate. But never fear 12 disciples took the Good News to the streets and changed human history (you go all in on secularism, great track record there don't you think?) I think 12 more committed Christians are enough to win again, especially when you keep slaughtering your unborn & making most of the rest idiots. "

Why are you using my screen name?

And as a Matter of Fact I do know how this country got started. It certainly a reflection of a desire to practice more devoutly. It was a matter of dollars and cents to begin with. And in the end, it still had nothing to do with Christianity. Where is the defense of the faith in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution??

Anonymous Heaviside March 10, 2015 5:38 PM  

Orban shut down the NPI meeting in Budapest. Yep, that's stalwart leadership for you.

Anonymous Steveo March 10, 2015 5:40 PM  

Steve0 - Troll on brother, certainly remembering two days a year in church makes you... well, you were born, so you call it.

Anonymous Steveo March 10, 2015 5:44 PM  

Steve0... you haven't even bothered to read much here before puking your BS... I've been around her more than 10 years in case anyone's counting. So you can cram your screen name bs. Nothing to do with Christianity? Sheesh, that's just weak troll'n.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 5:50 PM  

"Steve0... you haven't even bothered to read much here before puking your BS... I've been around her more than 10 years in case anyone's counting. So you can cram your screen name bs. Nothing to do with Christianity? Sheesh, that's just weak troll'n."

Oh, are your feewings hurt because you weren't noticed. Awwwwww.....Feeeeelings!!

Anonymous ZhukovG March 10, 2015 5:53 PM  

SteveO has a point, sad though it is. America seems lost, her Christian roots too shallow and too accustomed to a pleasant climate. Until American Christians realize that we have no one but ourselves to blame for the state of our nation then nothing will change.

You cannot blame people like SteveO, anymore than you can blame a dog for being a dog, they are what they are will act according to their nature.

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
2 Chronicles 7:14

Of course after removing the beams from our own eyes we may need to help the Prophets of Baal see the error of their ways.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 6:04 PM  

"SteveO has a point, sad though it is. America seems lost, her Christian roots too shallow and too accustomed to a pleasant climate. Until American Christians realize that we have no one but ourselves to blame for the state of our nation then nothing will change. "

How would you have America change vis a vis Christianity? Or are you just saying you want the U.S. be be little more right wing and if that means a little more intolerance for non-christians then so be it?

"Of course after removing the beams from our own eyes we may need to help the Prophets of Baal see the error of their ways."

The hard core Christians in the U.S. have been trying this for centuries. No luck then and no luck now. The problem isnt' the messenger. It's the message.

Anonymous Freestater March 10, 2015 6:27 PM  

"It was a matter of dollars and cents to begin with. And in the end, it still had nothing to do with Christianity. Where is the defense of the faith in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution?? "

Ya your right, nobody could possibly have known what they were talking about when they said we were endowed by our Creator.

Holy Facepalm are you stupid.

Anonymous Quartermaster March 10, 2015 6:27 PM  

"Who was behind the abolition movement? Was it rational and market driven?"

Unitarians drove Christians out of the ABolition movement, and it became a leftist cause among those who wanted to look like they were accomplishing something when they really weren't. The leftists then, as now, didn't want them to live among them.

"The problem isnt' the messenger. It's the message."

Of course it is. Sinful human nature hates the message. Human nature would much rather live in the chains of sin. Living in slavery is easy. Living for Christ is hard.

Anonymous Steveo March 10, 2015 6:28 PM  

Steve0 - That's about right on cue...

ZhukovG... while to many, the country seems lost I do not believe it is; but America is facing some challenges, that is without doubt. There are tremendous people dedicated to rebuilding our communities and our nation on founding principles (most of which are Biblical principles). In the near future, you'll likely run across it - I believe you'll see a new paradigm in learning/education, an entrepreneurial renaissance, a reawakening of Christendom in America greater than most can fathom. I'm confident history will note their efforts, (precisely because of the Truth of your scripture reference). That's why Viktor Orban's address & the point of the post is prescient; what would millions of leaders like Viktor Orban accomplish in our world?

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni March 10, 2015 6:47 PM  

What do you know? Christianity is capable of resurrection - in Hungary!

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 6:51 PM  

"Ya your right, nobody could possibly have known what they were talking about when they said we were endowed by our Creator."

If a single, standard, throw away clause is all you have to suggest this was a christian driven revolution the founders engaged in then I think my point is made.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 7:00 PM  

"Of course it is. Sinful human nature hates the message. Human nature would much rather live in the chains of sin. Living in slavery is easy. Living for Christ is hard."

Americans are and always have been capable of understanding that the ideas of not killing, not cheating, and not stealing are admirable traits without having to sit a listen to stories about how some God insists you never protect against having additional children or unwanted children or that everything was created in six days or that women ought to obey their husbands. That kind of bunk has been properly dismissed and the church saw the revolt coming centuries ago.

You folks who want (and, laughably think there will be) a revival of Christianity in America don't understand just how repugnant the faith's more idiotic prohibitions and claims are to most Americans.

OH MY....someone wants to have sex with someone without being married!! Oh MY!! A 25 celled thing was washed away. GOODNESS gracious, a man treats his wife like the human being she is. A God somewhere weeps and mourns for their soul!!!

Yeah....the revival is just around the corner.

Blogger Danby March 10, 2015 7:16 PM  

Christian concern troll is really an atheist.
Always.
Funny thing is, both Christ and Darwin can tell you the penalty for slaughtering your own children.

Blogger Danby March 10, 2015 7:19 PM  

BTW, Lame-0
do you have any arguments, or just ridicule, cause that's all you've brought to the table so far. Anyone can do that.

OOOH, big strong man thinks he can tell God what's reasonable.

Anonymous Cash March 10, 2015 7:32 PM  

After reading this speach I am Hungary for more.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 7:34 PM  

"do you have any arguments, or just ridicule, cause that's all you've brought to the table so far"

I've got a little time before the kids are home. Do you want me to explain the difference between ridicule and making a case?? It's no problem.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis March 10, 2015 7:36 PM  

You folks who want (and, laughably think there will be) a revival of Christianity in America don't understand just how repugnant the faith's more idiotic prohibitions and claims are to most Americans.

And you are seemingly to obtuse to pay attention to demographics both locally and internationally. Religious individuals are out breeding the non-religious

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-00128-4_8

So much so that your getting the atheist cultists, the ones who naively and foolish think all the worlds ills will somehow magically disappear if we all stop believing in god, crying bitter tears and chastising their fellow atheists for not reproducing as their religious bretheran.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2010/12/22/gods-little-rabbits-religious-people-out-reproduce-secular-ones-by-a-landslide

Which really begs a certain question now doesn't it?

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2015 March 10, 2015 7:38 PM  

Don't want to hammer this point but Islam isn't civilization; so clash of civilizations is a false dichotomy.
But Vox, even if Islam were a vehicle for civility, economic growth and employment stability, creativity and engineering novelty,

to any lover of life, liberty and eternal truth it would still be a dead blow fly in Chanel # 5.

Islam has at it's very core Muhammad's blasphemy. It cannot be reconstructed. A/ The Day of Wrath is for those who do business with it.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis March 10, 2015 7:39 PM  



You do realize that there is a bounty of data indicating that children born outside of wedlock face a far, far harder life than those who do not.

Blogger Danby March 10, 2015 7:50 PM  

@Lame-0
You don't need to explain reason to me, you snot-nosed buffoon. I was building rational cases when you were still playing with your own faeces.
You haven't made a case, you made a bald-faced assertion,and when called on it you remade the same damn assertion. About 5 times. Finally, when called on it again, you revealed your atheistic incapacity for thought and went straight for the ad hominem.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 7:53 PM  

"Religious individuals are out breeding the non-religious"

There were more "religious individuals" breeding 50 years ago. How did that work out for you? And for the record, exactly where on our DNA is the Christianity gene?

Anonymous WaterBoy March 10, 2015 7:54 PM  

SteveO: "You folks...don't understand just how repugnant the faith's more idiotic prohibitions and claims are to most Americans."

Yet despite this, most Americans (83%) still continue to self-identify as Christian. Just how repugnant can it be, if that many claim it?

It would appear in the face of this that your assertion is overstated.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 7:58 PM  

"You don't need to explain reason to me, you snot-nosed buffoon........ you revealed your atheistic incapacity for thought and went straight for the ad hominem"

That's kinda funny.

Still the kids aren't here yet. I can help you with a difference between a "claim" and a "case". It's no problem. I'm here to help.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 8:03 PM  

"Yet despite this, most Americans (83%) still continue to self-identify as Christian. Just how repugnant can it be, if that many claim it?"

It's like a refugee from California living in Oregon saying, "i'm a Californian".

Self identifying is the easy part. Carrying at all about that identity or it's more ridiculous claims and demands simply aren't worth the effort to more and more people.

Blogger Danby March 10, 2015 8:04 PM  

Here is your original statement:
"Christianity has never been America's forte. The country is rational, market driven and generally opposed to the kind of despotic irrationality inherent in christian-based communities. The country just talks a good game. "

Nothing but boiler-plate atheist assertions.
What's your predicate?
What are you deductions?
What is your evidence?
Those are what it takes to build a case. Instead you waved your hands to any and all objections, and then held up for ridicule (without bothering to specify why it should be ridiculed) Christian sexual morality.

Good God man, even unlettered Heathens couldn't mistake that for a logical case.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2015 March 10, 2015 8:09 PM  

ridiculous claims and demands:

take me to your scientism laboratory demonstrations of abiogenesis SteveO

there there now, you don't understand it do you? - you glass house orchid - got to run, got to work for the money now...

Anonymous WaterBoy March 10, 2015 8:13 PM  

SteveO: "Self identifying is the easy part. Carrying at all about that identity or it's more ridiculous claims and demands simply aren't worth the effort to more and more people."

Sorry, "more and more people" won't cut it.

You originally claimed that those elements were repugnant to most Americans (i.e., >50%). Again, how can that number be correct when most Americans areChristian?

Again, you've overstated your assertion -- it would only be correct to say that of some Americans.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 8:24 PM  

"
Nothing but boiler-plate atheist assertions.
What's your predicate?
What are you deductions?
What is your evidence?"

Wow...very analytical for a believer.

Anyway, go back...you'll see more than you quoted.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein March 10, 2015 8:28 PM  

America's 30 Years War.: Who Is Winnjing?

Published by Hungarian concert pianist/political philosopher Balint Vazsonyi in 1998...

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein March 10, 2015 8:29 PM  

*Winning

Blogger Danby March 10, 2015 8:32 PM  

SteveO
"Very analytical for a believer."
Tell it it to Thomas Aquinas, you fraud. Snark is no substitute for thought. Unless you're an atheist, I guess. You personally, however, are less capable of rational thought than the most illiterate hillbilly snake handler.

Anonymous Tar Heel March 10, 2015 9:00 PM  

To be fair, Danby, snark is no substitute for clear thinking even if you are an atheist. Bad conclusions are bad conclusions across the board.

Thank you for that observation, though. I'll be keeping it in mind.

Anonymous commander427 March 10, 2015 9:03 PM  

"Wow...very analytical for a believer.

Anyway, go back...you'll see more than you quoted."

Are you actually going to provide a cogent argument for your position anytime soon? I know witty snark might pass for a justification on places like /r/ atheism and the Daily Show, but you should try to put in at least a modicum of effort when you're not preaching to the choir.

"OH MY....someone wants to have sex with someone without being married"

You make it seem as though loose and hedonistic sex are things to be praised. Perhaps it could be because you just dislike when a doctrine says no to something that feels good in the moment. Perhaps I will never know, at this rate you'll just put out another two sentence reply and think that it's witty.

Anonymous Heaviside March 10, 2015 9:16 PM  

I think SteveO has a point. I asked a relative of mine, who is a member of a Lutheran church, whether she thought Jesus was the son of God and she didn't answer in the affirmative.

Anonymous Cash March 10, 2015 9:28 PM  

@heaviside

Was that his point?

Anonymous WaterBoy March 10, 2015 9:39 PM  

Heaviside: "whether she thought Jesus was the son of God"

Is that one of Christianity's "more idiotic prohibitions and claims" which are repugnant to most Americans?

To be honest, I don't think that is what SteveO was referring to with his original claim.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 9:41 PM  

"You make it seem as though loose and hedonistic sex are things to be praised"

And you make it sound like I mentioned loose and hedonistic sex. Are you one of those people who can't have a discussion without putting words in others mouths?

"Perhaps it could be because you just dislike when a doctrine says no to something that feels good in the moment."

When it says no to something that has no negative consequence and is merely a method of authoring and exercising control for no rational reason? Yeah. I take offense at that and Christians are better at this than any other groups. The incoherent prohibition on sex outside marriage is among those things that can't be rationally explained beyond the Dodo in the Sky says so.

"Are you actually going to provide a cogent argument"
Are you actually going to read?

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 9:44 PM  

where on our DNA is the Christianity gene?

Are you one of those people who can't have a discussion without putting words in others mouths?

Obvious projection is obvious.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 9:44 PM  

"I think SteveO has a point. I asked a relative of mine, who is a member of a Lutheran church, whether she thought Jesus was the son of God and she didn't answer in the affirmative."

American's largely believe in god as a matter of tradition, laziness and a desire for comfort. But when push comes to shove, they have no intention of implementing the ideas that are implied by a believe in the Christian fantasy. No, America talks a good game...always has, but isn't too serious about Christianity.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 9:48 PM  

Hey Tallen, watch this:

1. There are move believers breeding than non believers
2. Inheritable traits are based on DNA
3. Where on our DNA is the Christianity Gene?

Hey Tallen.....Idiot.
3.

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 9:52 PM  

You fail to show where the offspring are part of the conversation. Do you understand that the verb "breeding" applies to the subjects breeding, and not to their offspring? The connection between the verb and the noun performing the verb is pretty basic in most languages even if English wasn't your first. I can walk you through it if you need me to; you sound like someone who needs a lot of help.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 9:59 PM  

"SteveO
"Very analytical for a believer."
Tell it it to Thomas Aquinas"

You guys always return to SAINT (because he was magic) Thomas Aquinas. He was a Special Pleader. He started with a well formed conclusion and then attempted to justify the conclusion through philosophy. He never followed his investigation to a logical conclusion when that conclusion didn't fit his original conclusion. Talk about a fraud. He was an average philosopher at best.

You know what was magic about TA? His ability to miraculously turn from the truth when it struck him straight in the face.

So, please tell me the Christers can deliver up a better example of analysis than the Magic Mr. Aquinas.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 10:02 PM  

"You fail to show where the offspring are part of the conversation. Do you understand that the verb "breeding" applies to the subjects breeding, and not to their offspring?"

Why would I have to RE-show such a thing when the original commenter did it for me with this statement:

"And you are seemingly to obtuse to pay attention to demographics both locally and internationally. Religious individuals are out breeding the non-religious"

Hey Tallen....Idiot!

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 10:07 PM  

You are projecting just as you accuse others of doing. The religious individuals are breeding. The offspring quite clearly are not the subject performing the verb as it is plainly stated "religious individuals." Specifically, "individuals" is the subject, and "breeding" is the noun. Do you understand that "offspring" are not mentioned here, but "religious individuals" performing the act (verb) of breeding? In English, when the subject is performing a verb, it does not refer to some unmentioned subject that is performing the verb, merely the stated subject. You are projecting "offspring" or some similar word into the conversation. Frankly, human offspring aren't even capable of breeding for many years so it's not even plausible to conflate the two. Do you need a biology lesson as well?

Anonymous hapsburg peasant March 10, 2015 10:16 PM  

@Heaviside: "Orban shut down the NPI meeting in Budapest. Yep, that's stalwart leadership for you."

Orban is under tremendous pressure from the usual suspects. They tried to pull an Ukraine on him just a few weeks ago (the second time). He has to pick his battles very carefully. Obviously he can't always make the perfect choice or one we all can be happy with.

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 10:18 PM  

Hey Tallen...

I'm curious, what do you think the commenter meant when he said this:

"And you are seemingly to obtuse to pay attention to demographics both locally and internationally. Religious individuals are out breeding the non-religious"

And when they then linked to an article entitled, "The Reproductive Benefits of Religious Affiliation"

Tell me Tallen, what point do you think this person was trying to make? Are you trying to make the case that the person was not suggesting that religious individuals breeding will result in religious individuals?

Hey Tallen.....My god....You are an idiot!!

But please...Please say this is the case you are trying to make. I can then show your argument to others to make my case about believers in general.

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 10:28 PM  

Why are you asking me about something someone else said instead of asking that person? If you didn't understand their point, then ask them. Instead of doing so, you put words in their mouth and then ask me to do the same, while simultaneously accusing others of projecting! Not to mention, you fail at English and biology and then call others idiots. Slather on the irony why don't you?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza March 10, 2015 10:38 PM  

Post Americant has gone near to full undead hollow. Is she a judged nation for falling this far away?

Anonymous SteveO March 10, 2015 10:57 PM  

"Why are you asking me about something someone else said instead of asking that person? If you didn't understand their point, then ask them."

This isn't exactly what I was hoping for as a show and tell with folks who like to laugh, but it will do nonetheless.

Anonymous Tallen March 10, 2015 11:01 PM  

I am curious, how will you show them I am a "believer?"

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 10, 2015 11:06 PM  

Moor: "I've been reminded several times here lately of the truth regarding worldviews and systems:

It's not 'whether' but 'which'."

That's true. But there's also a "how".

Moor: "As in, it's not whether there will be a dominant worldview or system in place, only which it will be. One of the great lies of the Left/Liberals/Progressives (pick your title) is that they are somehow replacing the dominant Christian worldview/system with an objective and value-free system in which all worldviews and systems are welcome."

Right. And that represents a change from rule by people who will tell you straight-up what they think, and who will try to argue you down if you disagree (in the style of Aquinas, though rarely so competently), to rule by people who are slippery, evasive and dishonest about what they think, who represent cryptic, covert, illegitimate power, and who want to get their way by deceit.

Moor: "This, of course, leads to exactly what was mentioned in the speech with regard to the way Liberals label everyone else as Fascist (which I've heard called "Soft Despotism") and also leaves the system weak to those who are willing to play the power game (cf. Isis, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.)."

Right.

And rule by people and groups that constantly claim to be victims goes with this. The dishonesty, the evasiveness and the refusal of the people running things to own up to who they are, what they believe and what they are imposing is intrinsic to the new system.

I would agree that this speech is "Christian leadership". Just by declaring itself plainly, it's a rebellion against the dominant Judeo-Christian style.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 10, 2015 11:12 PM  

LP 999/Eliza: "Post Americant has gone near to full undead hollow. Is she a judged nation for falling this far away?"

No.

America lost, that's all. The new rulers imposed their system, which is a bad system. Whether America might win again is a pragmatic question. Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

Anonymous Toby Temple March 10, 2015 11:14 PM  

Americans are and always have been capable of understanding that the ideas of not killing, not cheating, and not stealing are admirable traits without having to sit a listen to stories about how some God insists you never protect against having additional children or unwanted children or that everything was created in six days or that women ought to obey their husbands. That kind of bunk has been properly dismissed and the church saw the revolt coming centuries ago.

Ah yes! The typical i-make-a-strawman-and-burn-it-myself kind of atheist.

Now let me find a stick to poke it with.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus March 10, 2015 11:40 PM  

LP 999/Eliza: "Post Americant has gone near to full undead hollow."

I know what you mean though. Post-Aussie Australia is moving to undead hollow too.

Blogger Danby March 10, 2015 11:40 PM  

@ SteveO
"When it says no to something that has no negative consequence and is merely a method of authoring and exercising control for no rational reason? Yeah. I take offense at that and Christians are better at this than any other groups. The incoherent prohibition on sex outside marriage is among those things that can't be rationally explained beyond the Dodo in the Sky says so."

fucktard sez "I wanna put my dick in it, and i don't care about consequences

Christianity says "There are consequences you dolt! Consequences to you, to your partner, to your family, and to society."

Fucktard sez "LALALA I can't hear you, so you aren't talking. I don't want to understand what you're saying, so I'm going to pretend you're saying something else.I can't carry a logical thought from A to B to C so I'm gonna pretend I already have.

And I'm still gonna put my dick in it."

Man, the stupidity would be embarrassing, except I imagine you're too stupid to see it.

Blogger cavalier973 March 10, 2015 11:45 PM  

We therefore let go of neo-liberal economic policy...

Hmmm...

neoliberalism (ˌniːəʊˈlɪbərəˌlɪzəm; -ˈlɪbrəˌlɪzəm)
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a modern politico-economic theory favouring free trade, privatization, minimal government intervention in business, reduced public expenditure on social services, etc
2. (Economics) a modern politico-economic theory favouring free trade, privatization, minimal government intervention in business, reduced public expenditure on social services, etc

Blogger Josh March 10, 2015 11:46 PM  

Shut up tad

Anonymous ZhukovG March 11, 2015 12:17 AM  

Josh,

I don't think this poor specimen is Tad. Which reminds me, I wonder how Dominic is these days? He's a much better class of Atheist.

Anonymous SteveO March 11, 2015 12:45 AM  

""There are consequences you dolt! Consequences to you, to your partner, to your family, and to society.""

I got to hear this. What are the consequences to family, society and my partner of safe, protected, consensual sex outside marriage?

Blogger Sherwood family March 11, 2015 1:09 AM  

SteveO, some of the consequences include:

divorcing sex from marriage with the attendant erosion of that institution and the societal ills that flow from its dissolution.

divorcing sex from reproduction with the attendant loss of family/fertility to society and the ills that go along with it.

divorcing sex from emotional involvement or unity with your sexual partner leading to sex being emotionally damaging, and developing into a predatory or consumptive behavior which has no long term interest in the welfare or wellbeing of the other partner,

creating dissatisfaction for individuals who later marry through the development of a lingering perception of "better sex" with someone previous to their present husband or wife,

eroding the safety and protections that marriage affords women specifically and setting up inducements for them to foresake those protections in pursuit of relationships with men who are not actually interested in their long term well-being.

dissolution of personal discipline necessary for successful married life with greater potential for cheating on one's spouse in the future because of a habit of finding easily available sexual partners prior to that union

The effects are visible in the broken homes, broken hearts, broken trust of men and women who were used up in this process or in the children that were created due to "accidents" of "safe, protected, consensual sex outside of marriage."

It is also a violation of God's commandments which carries its own penalties in this world and in the world to come for the unrepentant.

OpenID simplytimothy March 11, 2015 8:14 AM  

But when push comes to shove, they have no intention of implementing the ideas that are implied by a believe"

This comment made without any sense of embarrasement on a blog post highlighting the implementation of ideas that are implied by a belief in Christ.

Fwiw, heathen, some of us have every attention of restoring what God has give to us and we are putting into action the ideas that animate us. Also, go fuck yourself.



Anonymous Steveo March 11, 2015 8:47 AM  

Still troll'n Steve0?

Rabbit's gonna rabbit. In this screed, he's been nothing but rhetoric. No sound argument matters as it's just about riling up everyone. Does it matter that Christian civilization under-girds & provides him with all of the quality of life that allows him to be an adult 14 year-old (arrested development)?

Do you think his 25-cell stage (really 16-32 cells in the Morula stage, about day 4) comment matters to him at all, other than as a pitched together diatribe to smack the anti-abortion mole? Does it matter that secularists/ahteists murdered hundreds of millions in the last century? Does it matter that they brought about a situation where scores of millions of babies died in utero? Think about that for a minute for humanity - the only common & mandatory point of existence to every unique human being is the least valuable to these fools - go make that a foundation ethic and see where it leads. Easy road from there to quality of life put-downs whenever; then just because.

Additionally, Christian women have had abortions, analytical thought & a bit of research both prove it - so what? Christians, as he keeps pounding must be held to some perfect standard - because Jesus? Clearly, this person has no clue what Christianity really teaches despite potentially 60-80 days of admitted church experience. Christians are forgiven because Jesus. A church is a hospital, and everyone in there has fallen short of the Glory of God.

This person's epic failure is misunderstanding the difference between extrapolating a linear progression of human activity - while denying that it is in fact a dynamic process & the pendulum has already been swinging back.

It's not about anything but troll'n guys.

Blogger Robert What? March 11, 2015 9:17 AM  

@DrTorch

That puzzled me too. Austerity has long been considered a Christian virtue.

I'm not sure where you get that idea that austerity is a "Christian virtue". Frugality, temperance, yes. But I see no basis for claiming austerity.

But, even so, in order for it to be considered a "virtue" it has to be something that you choose or agree to yourself. "Austerity" that is involuntarily imposed on you by others is not a virtue for you or for them. And certainly not when those others do not burden themselves with that same austerity.

Blogger Danby March 11, 2015 2:45 PM  

Good Lord, did I spend an evening trying to argue with Tad? How did I not see it?

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