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Wednesday, April 15, 2015

Annie Bellet withdraws

One of the 2015 Hugo nominees has withdrawn her short story from consideration:
I have withdrawn my story “Goodnight Stars” from consideration in this year’s Hugo Awards.

I want to make it clear I am not doing this lightly. I am not doing it because I am ashamed. I am not doing it because I was pressured by anyone either way or on any “side,” though many friends have made cogent arguments for both keeping my nomination and sticking it out, as well as for retracting it and letting things proceed without me in the middle.

I am withdrawing because this has become about something very different than great science fiction. 
 As has 2015 Best Novel nominee Marko Kloos.
It has come to my attention that “Lines of Departure” was one of the nomination suggestions in Vox Day’s “Rabid Puppies” campaign. Therefore—and regardless of who else has recommended the novel for award consideration—the presence of “Lines of Departure” on the shortlist is almost certainly due to my inclusion on the “Rabid Puppies” slate. For that reason, I had no choice but to withdraw my acceptance of the nomination. I cannot in good conscience accept an award nomination that I feel I may not have earned solely with the quality of the nominated work.

I also wish to disassociate myself from the originator of the “Rabid Puppies” campaign. To put it bluntly: if this nomination gives even the appearance that Vox Day or anyone else had a hand in giving it to me because of my perceived political leanings, I don’t want it. I want to be nominated for awards because of the work, not because of the “right” or “wrong” politics.
As to anyone feeling betrayed by this, don't be. Leave them alone and respect their decision; do not criticize them for it. Regardless of why they chose to withdraw, that is their right and their choice, and it is neither a problem nor a concern of ours.

UPDATE: Marko Kloos wasn't quite so judicious on Facebook, apparently.
My withdrawal has nothing to do with Larry Correia or Brad Torgersen. I don’t know Brad personally, but Larry is a long-time online acquaintance and friend. We’ve known each other since before our writing days. I have no issue with Larry or the Sad Puppies. I’m pulling out of the Hugo process solely because Vox Day also included me on his “Rabid Puppies” slate, and his RP crowd provided the necessary weight to the ballot to put me on the shortlist. I think Vox Day is a shitbag of the first order, and I don’t want any association with him, especially not a Hugo nomination made possible by his followers being the deciding factor. That stench don’t wash off.
What is with these SF writers and their absolute preoccupation with all things excremental anyhow?

Labels:

289 Comments:

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Blogger Student in Blue April 15, 2015 3:49 PM  

:(

It's a shame.

If this keeps up, most of the books I'll be reading before I vote will be awful!

Blogger Matt April 15, 2015 3:51 PM  

Are you glad she bowed out?

Blogger Nate April 15, 2015 3:53 PM  

OH NO! SOMEONE LIKES MY STORY!!!

Blogger Student in Blue April 15, 2015 3:55 PM  

I'm being generous in my reading, but she didn't want the drama that entailed, so she bowed out. I'm guessing Marko did for the same reason.

I really wish they didn't, because if you want the awards to be redeemed... you need actual good works up there.

Anonymous mistaben April 15, 2015 3:56 PM  

The funny part is that it has actually *FINALLY* become about great science fiction.

Therein also lies the tragedy of good works falling or being forced off the ballot.

Blogger The Deuce April 15, 2015 3:56 PM  

Matt:
Are you glad she bowed out?

Presumably not, as she was on both the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies slates. Then again, this will allow the voters who support both slates to concentrate their votes more.

Anonymous Scintan April 15, 2015 4:01 PM  

So to be clear, has the anti-puppies campaign resulted in a bisexual socialist woman off of the Hugo ballot, with the corresponding loss of "diversity" that comes with that?

Anonymous Alexander April 15, 2015 4:03 PM  

A shame.

Blogger Vox April 15, 2015 4:03 PM  

Are you glad she bowed out?

Totally indifferent. As for Kloos, I'd just as soon have Gannon, Torgersen, or THE THREE BODY-PROBLEM on there.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man April 15, 2015 4:04 PM  

Perhaps they can be redeemed in the replacement Hugos.

Anonymous bw April 15, 2015 4:06 PM  

"this has become about something very different than great science fiction

There is one cultural change agent side that denies this, or claims righteous political correctness concerning it, and the other side is consistently and historically pointing that fact out. That's THE whole point of this fight.
It has never been about "great science fiction" to the SJW.

Anonymous Salt April 15, 2015 4:07 PM  

"I don’t want to have to think over every tweet and retweet, every blog post, every word I say."

It's too bad. She was on the two slates for a reason. The perpetually outraged have a notch on their belt, and it's female.

#Iamnotyourball

Anonymous Alexander April 15, 2015 4:10 PM  

Well, let's see if the new nominees are "new and interesting authors that the puppies blocked from a well-deserved shot at the Hugo"... of it we're back in Scalzi & Frendz

Anonymous Jeanne April 15, 2015 4:12 PM  

If they withdraw, they are replaced on the ballot with the next work that received the most votes or no?

Blogger Douglas Wardell April 15, 2015 4:15 PM  

In before Scalzi gloating about how he's on the ballot now in response to Larry's burn last week.

Anonymous MrGreenMan April 15, 2015 4:17 PM  

It looks like the vitriol unleashed in response to the nominations has already destroyed the Hugos. Rest in peace, once proud pile of shit.

Blogger Jourdan April 15, 2015 4:20 PM  

Typical SJW behavior. I will just take the ball and go home!! And in doing so pose as above you all, thereby signalling my membership in the tribe with superior morals!!

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 4:20 PM  

If they withdraw, they are replaced on the ballot with the next work that received the most votes or no?

It appears to be so, as Larry Correia withdrew his nomination for Best Novel.

Anonymous dh April 15, 2015 4:22 PM  

It appears to be so, as Larry Correia withdrew his nomination for Best Novel.

Well it may not be that simple. Correia declined his nomination. These two authors have withdrawn from the ballot. It's a little different.

Blogger Mark Citadel April 15, 2015 4:24 PM  

No, it now IS about great science fiction. the awards have been liberated from leftist cranks like Scalzi and disingenuous actors like Martin.

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 4:36 PM  

Well it may not be that simple. Correia declined his nomination. These two authors have withdrawn from the ballot. It's a little different.

Good point, dh, thank you for the correction.

Anonymous Salt April 15, 2015 4:41 PM  

"If they withdraw, they are replaced on the ballot with the next work that received the most votes or no?"

"Well it may not be that simple."

Probably is that simple. Fits the process.

Anonymous dh April 15, 2015 4:43 PM  

Could be - I am not sure it's spelled out how it works.

Blogger 罗臻 April 15, 2015 4:50 PM  

I enjoyed Three Body Problem. I have a review of it here.

Blogger Victor April 15, 2015 4:50 PM  

I disagree. What's wrong with a simple "Thank you all. For the record I have no affiliation with SP/RP". This kind of stuff is pathetic status signalling. I wish it hasn't turned me off of checking out their work but it has. In the meantime check out all the "You rule! I'm totally gonna buy your books now!" coming from the other side. Would be interesting to see how this all affects sales. Anyone keeping an eye on amazon and audible rankings?

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 15, 2015 4:54 PM  

I'm rather wishing Larry had kept his hat in the ring.

Oh well.

Marko is running very clearly and explicitly away from Vox. I don't suppose it really matters, he didn't stand a chance at best novel. It will either be Jim Butcher or No Award for best novel.

Anonymous Alexander April 15, 2015 4:55 PM  

Well Kloos has it exactly wrong, but okay.

Blogger Victor April 15, 2015 4:56 PM  

I can see Anderson doing the same thing soon, or even at the ceremony. I started through his book and put off enough by the sexually liberated warrior princess character to return it to Audible. Exchanged for Torgenson's book which seems to be the only safe bet left now! Quite enjoying it so far. There is a female general character which I could do without but I find she's not written in an over the top way. God what a sexist misogynist nut case I am HA HA!

Anonymous Stilicho April 15, 2015 4:58 PM  

Kloos isn't very bright

Anonymous Crude April 15, 2015 4:59 PM  

I disagree. What's wrong with a simple "Thank you all. For the record I have no affiliation with SP/RP". This kind of stuff is pathetic status signalling. I wish it hasn't turned me off of checking out their work but it has.

I do not know their motivations. But I admit, 'I am pulling out because it has come to my attention that some people included me in their campaign, and I want no part of that' just seems so bullshit-laden. If they will refuse nominations based on being part of a slate, as near as I can tell, their withdrawal should be followed by their saying 'And I will never accept any Hugo nomination, ever, because as near as I can tell that sort of practice dominates the awards and has for years.'

Anonymous Sloppy critic April 15, 2015 4:59 PM  

I enjoyed Three Body Problem. I have a review of it here.

From that review:

In the afterword, Liu discusses how war between foreigners is common on Earth, yet people often ascribe benevolent motives to aliens in science fiction.

Ho hum, already done. Larry Niven comes to mind.

Why can't they simply be indifferent or etc?

Anonymous Jon Bromfield April 15, 2015 5:01 PM  

Really, the people that gave the Hugo to "The Rain That Falls on You From Nowhere" are unset the award is not NOW about the quality of the work?

The Puppies have won. The bell cannot be un-rung. The Hugos have been shown to be exactly what Vox and Larry always knew them to be, irredeemable.

I feel sorry for Brad, who hoped reform was possible. It isn't. It can only be ridiculed.

"Science Fiction's Most Prestigious Award"

Now just a sick joke.

Anonymous Jeanne April 15, 2015 5:04 PM  

I intend to vote for Skin Game for best novel, with The Dark Between the Stars second. So, Kloos wasn't even on my radar. But I agree in that he comes across rather obtuse. Oh, well.

As to Annie, her story wasn't bad at all. But, "The Parliament of Beasts and Birds" was easily the best short story I read this year and I would say "Turncoat" or "Tuesdays with Molakesh" will get my second place vote. So, this too doesn't really affect my ballot.

Just curious if they will be replaced or not...

Blogger Azimus April 15, 2015 5:04 PM  

Mark Kloos
"I cannot in good conscience accept an award nomination that I feel I may not have earned solely with the quality of the nominated work"


A principled stand. As a man who is not his enemy, I can respect that. A man that is his enemy, will leverage that.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 15, 2015 5:04 PM  

I suppose withdrawal was more appealing than doing the SJW dance contrition for the rest of their lives.

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 5:05 PM  

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #12,894 in Books

Here's where Lines of Departure is as of now, 4:04 central time. I too didn't believe the whole "I'mma buy your book now!" silliness. Also, check out the people responding to Kloos's tweet: fat women with ugly/dyed hair and queers (including Hines!).

Anonymous Phil Mann April 15, 2015 5:05 PM  

Going forward, simply include Mr. Scalzi as a Puppies nominee. Being a man of character and principle, he'll have no choice but to decline the nomination.

Blogger Russell April 15, 2015 5:06 PM  

"I want to be nominated for awards because of the work, not because of the 'right' or 'wrong' politics."

Man, talk about getting it completely backwards.

Anonymous dh April 15, 2015 5:08 PM  

This opens a whole new avenue of attack. Which is, the Uber Slate, where you nominate your enemies and they suffer for it.

Blogger Azimus April 15, 2015 5:10 PM  

Anonymous Phil Mann April 15, 2015 5:05 PM Going forward, simply include Mr. Scalzi as a Puppies nominee. Being a man of character and principle, he'll have no choice but to decline the nomination.

Checkmate!

Anonymous Murgy "Not with Anger, but Sorrow" April 15, 2015 5:10 PM  

I used to be a big Kloos supporter. I bought his book when he self-published it. He was 'in my tribe'. (Gunowners).

Then I heard him on a podcast. I lost a lot of respect for him, that day. Today's action knocks off another chunk. Sad.

Going to Variable Paradise didn't get him a Big Book Deal from Tor. Maybe this will. Hope it's worth it.

Anonymous pseudotsuga April 15, 2015 5:12 PM  

Annie Bellet wrote, "I am withdrawing because this has become about something very different than great science fiction." However, she neglects to point out that it is HER side which actually believes this, and the slate(s) which nominated her only included her because they believed she wrote great science fiction.
It's too bad that she bowed out after all the pressure from HER side to conform to goodthink. I was prepared to read her work and judge it on its merits as great science fiction compared to other great works.
Kloos also has given in to the the propaganda campaign, it seems. The left is quite good at social pressure to reinforce goodthink.
I wonder if Martin (Kowal, and others) asked them to step back in the race again, would they do so? (Of course, I am assuming good faith on their parts, which is assuming an awful lot...)

Anonymous Jeanne April 15, 2015 5:12 PM  

Going forward, simply include Mr. Scalzi as a Puppies nominee. Being a man of character and principle, he'll have no choice but to decline the nomination.

Wiping red wine off my computer screen....

Anonymous Salt April 15, 2015 5:12 PM  

A principled stand.

Maybe, but I tend to think not. He's more concerned with being seen as "one of them" by the in-crowd.

"I cannot in good conscience accept an award nomination that I feel I may not have earned solely with the quality of the nominated work"

999 reviews, 4.5 stars

Bye, Marko.

Anonymous Stephen J. April 15, 2015 5:17 PM  

"Man, talk about getting it completely backwards."

Hard to blame him, though. This is the tragedy of kafkatrap politics: when one is sincerely convinced, or has been conditioned to reflexively expect, that everything is political, it means that the claim or desire to be a-political can never be believed; it is ipso facto a delusion at best and a tactical lie of the opposition at worst.

Anonymous yerpistan April 15, 2015 5:18 PM  

I gotta say, i'm glad this little argument with grrm/hugos/etc. started. I would have never read game of thrones, its really good! Now i must read one of vox's books, which one is best?

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 15, 2015 5:18 PM  

"OH NO! SOMEONE LIKES MY STORY!!!"

I don't want anyone who engages in badthink to buy my books. Only the hands of the pure may caress my pages.


"the anti-puppies campaign resulted in a bisexual socialist woman off of the Hugo ballot, loss of "diversity" that comes with that?"

Wait until the rumor starts that the only reason she was put on the list is that she would behave like the stereotype and withdraw.

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma April 15, 2015 5:19 PM  

While these withdrawals are either a little bit ignorant or cowardly — or both — one must always respect the right of conscience. And as long as they keep writing great science fiction, we all win.

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 5:20 PM  

"I want to be nominated for awards because of the work, not because of the 'right' or 'wrong' politics."

Man, talk about getting it completely backwards.


Right - had he ever been nominated before when the process was ruled by SJW politics?

No one can pretend that men like Robert Heinlein or Pou Anderson would be nominated today, much less win, and that's precisely because of their politics.

Anonymous Anonymous April 15, 2015 5:20 PM  

h8ers gunna h8.

too bad they fail to realize merit is the important part now. but sjws never learn.

-AmicusC

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 5:22 PM  

Now i must read one of vox's books, which one is best?

It depends. Do you prefer your fiction to not have any message at all, but to just plain be a story? Then A Man Disrupted.

Or, if you have a stomach for an amount of religious undercurrent (which is nevertheless not in your face), then A Throne of Bones.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 15, 2015 5:24 PM  

"its really good! Now i must read one of vox's books, which one is best?"

If you are not trying to derail the thread go to http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/04/new-reader-where-to-start.html from earlier this week.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 5:28 PM  

As for BigGaySteve's link, I get the impression that yerpistan is not only looking for entertainment, but also wants to assess the author. For that, AMP is not a very good test case, because it's just a "remix" of an earlier book by another author. However, if you are indeed only looking to be entertained, then in my opinion AMP is the superior book.

But AMD is Vox's own story, AMP is not.

Anonymous Valiant April 15, 2015 5:28 PM  

I wonder if this is going to be one of their tactics. The asterisk years of the Hugos?

It really, really surprises me, that the argument of; Contacting the authors before they were written about favorably and recommended, is seen as the evil, not the the behavior of the SJWs who are the ones attacking and slandering them.

This mentality is very foreign to me. Wanting to be part of the warren so bad, that you are willing to blind yourself as to the reality of the situation. It was the quality of his work, not his perceived political leanings.

I rather enjoyed Lines of Departure.

Anonymous Stephen J. April 15, 2015 5:31 PM  

"Right - had he ever been nominated before when the process was ruled by SJW politics?"

In some ways that's exactly his point. If voters with one brand of politics keeps you out of the running, and another bunch of voters with a different brand of politics gets you into the running, either way it can seem like politics is trumping merit -- especially if you don't really believe most people can and do, in fact, meaningfully distinguish between the two.

(For that matter I'm not sure I do myself. I like to think I can critically appreciate a good story whatever its message, but the brutal truth -- for me, personally; I make no statement on anyone else -- is that a message with which I agree will tend to improve that story's entertainment quotient, and a message with which I disagree does tend to reduce it.)

Anonymous ticticboom April 15, 2015 5:33 PM  

I'm not surprised at Kloos. He's a better writer than most of the dreck out there, smarter too, but is blinded by his progressivism and lets it seep into his work, especially Measures of Absolution. If I'd read that first I'd probably never have bought another of his books.

Personally I think Christopher Nuttall or Jonathan Moeller more worthy of Hugos than Kloos and half the nominees over the last five or so years.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 5:33 PM  

Easy come, easy go, I guess.

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 5:34 PM  

I haven't read anything from Annie Bellet, but I have read two books by Marko Kloos - Terms of Enlistment, and Lines of Departure. I hadn't heard of him till he appeared on the SP and RP slates.

I enjoyed both books very much, so I'm sad that he's withdrawn from the nominations. Lines of Departure deserved to be there.

He says "It has come to my attention that “Lines of Departure” was one of the nomination suggestions in Vox Day’s “Rabid Puppies” campaign"

O RLY? He just found out about that recently, did he? Uh huh. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Obviously I don't know what went on behind the scenes, so I'll refrain from commenting on the guy's motives, but I'm disappointed both in his decision, and the credulity-stretching explanation for that decision. I'm still looking forward to his third book.

I read Annie Bellet's explanation and have a lot more sympathy for her personally. She seems like a sweet girl.

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 5:40 PM  

Marissa - check out the people responding to Kloos's tweet: fat women with ugly/dyed hair and queers (including Hines!)

Rainbow-haired she-twinks are voracious readers of military sci fi.

Blogger Alexander April 15, 2015 5:50 PM  

Yeah, Nuttall is a new favorite of mine: been reading everything of his since I found him from Red Horse. Hugo worthy for sure.

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 5:53 PM  

Alexander - I liked the Ark Royal series a lot. Are his other books as good?

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 5:56 PM  

In some ways that's exactly his point. If voters with one brand of politics keeps you out of the running, and another bunch of voters with a different brand of politics gets you into the running, either way it can seem like politics is trumping merit -- especially if you don't really believe most people can and do, in fact, meaningfully distinguish between the two.

You're right, but I find it hard to believe that Marko Kloos would have ever been nominated, sans SP or RP, and it would have had nothing to do with the merit of his works. He wouldn't ever call out the other side for shutting him out because it appears ungracious and desperate.

(For that matter I'm not sure I do myself. I like to think I can critically appreciate a good story whatever its message, but the brutal truth -- for me, personally; I make no statement on anyone else -- is that a message with which I agree will tend to improve that story's entertainment quotient, and a message with which I disagree does tend to reduce it.)

I get what you're saying, but on a personal note, I enjoy China Mieville, even though his Marxism pervades his story-telling but Kim Stanley Robinson is so mind-numbingly preachy that I had to give up after the 2nd book of the Mars series. It's the difference between flying through a book with a few eyerolling snorts and slogging through another one loudly asking myself, "Come on, really?!"

Blogger Danby April 15, 2015 6:02 PM  

Well, others beat me to it, but how can Vox lose next year?

He nominates a slate of SJWs, they have a choice of voting with Vox or voting Noah Ward on their own friends.
Oh, the agony!

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 6:02 PM  

In the ongoing "it's not the politics of the author it's the quality of the story" discussion, I have to say that I see the two as inseparable, at least to the extent that the author inserts his personal politics into his stories. And I would say that it is the general rule that the author's personal beliefs and politics are strongly reflected in his work.

This being the case, an SJW sci-fi writer is likely to write about socialist utopian paradises, and in doing so, he isn't going to create a world that I find compelling. (After all, if he were capable of putting aside his views and rationally examining the world, he wouldn't be a big-government socialist.) At the same time, the SJWs have similar objections to the work of John Wright, in that the existence of the divine being a key part of the narrative is unacceptable to them.

We may as well openly embrace the fact that the political struggle and the struggle for what we consider to be quality literature are one and the same.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 6:03 PM  

"Well, others beat me to it, but how can Vox lose next year?"

The chaos is beautiful.

Anonymous Godfrey April 15, 2015 6:06 PM  

"To put it bluntly: if this nomination gives even the appearance that Vox Day or anyone else had a hand in giving it to me because of my perceived political leanings, I don’t want it. I want to be nominated for awards because of the work, not because of the “right” or “wrong” politics. "

My dear Ms. Bellet,

In case you haven't noticed, we now live in a time where nearly every award is given based on "right" and "wrong" politics. Politics now permeates every aspect of society. If you're interested in awards based on merit, then don't expect any.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 15, 2015 6:10 PM  

I should perhaps swallow my pride and read the Mars series even though it doesn't really appeal to me, but browsing it on Wikipedia it just sounds like something I would dread.

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 6:10 PM  

My withdrawal has nothing to do with Larry Correia or Brad Torgersen. I don’t know Brad personally, but Larry is a long-time online acquaintance and friend. We’ve known each other since before our writing days. I have no issue with Larry or the Sad Puppies. I’m pulling out of the Hugo process solely because Vox Day also included me on his “Rabid Puppies” slate, and his RP crowd provided the necessary weight to the ballot to put me on the shortlist. I think Vox Day is a shitbag of the first order, and I don’t want any association with him, especially not a Hugo nomination made possible by his followers being the deciding factor. That stench don’t wash off.

There's Kloos's statement from his Facebook. The wrong kind of fans nominated him.

Blogger eharmonica April 15, 2015 6:14 PM  

Annie's story is available here for free:
http://www.johnjosephadams.com/apocalypse-triptych/2015/04/09/news-goodnight-stars-by-annie-bellet-is-a-hugo-award-nominee/

Blogger Panzerdude April 15, 2015 6:19 PM  

Doesn't Kloos miss the point of RP. He WAS nominated because of the quality of his work, not his politics. He would not have been a RP recommendation had his politics been the deciding factor. It really is amazing to watch weak-kneed rabbits throw themselves on their swords to avoid the possibility of upsetting the Warren.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 15, 2015 6:19 PM  

I barely passed up buying Terms of Enlistment after Vox plugged it but I sure won't now.

Anonymous Jeanne April 15, 2015 6:20 PM  

Okay, good to know, Mr. Kloos. I will be sure to avoid anything you write in the future.

Good day.

Anonymous Supernaut April 15, 2015 6:21 PM  

He nominates a slate of SJWs, they have a choice of voting with Vox or voting Noah Ward on their own friends.

Unlike the SJW's and progressive literati, we know Vox is an honest man. This entire thing has been about nominating works that deserve it on merit.

To turn around and nominate "the other side" next year just to see if they will withdraw will fly in the face of he and the rest of the SP/RP supporters that have always maintained this is about merits of the work, not politics.

Anonymous Torer April 15, 2015 6:22 PM  

It's no secret why the writers withdrew. They don't want to have their food names sullied by being associated with Me. Beale. And you cNt blame them. Reputations are hard to repair.

Anonymous GreyS April 15, 2015 6:22 PM  

"It has come to my attention that “Lines of Departure” was one of the nomination suggestions in Vox Day’s “Rabid Puppies” campaign."

"It has come to my attention..."?!? lol-- Come ON, man...

These small bits of bullshit play-acting tell too much.

Anonymous GreyS April 15, 2015 6:24 PM  

lol-- Was "I recently discovered..." part of the first draft??

Blogger JCclimber April 15, 2015 6:25 PM  

I see their strategy (poor as it may be).
Pull a couple nominees who look vulnerable. Get another SJW safe person nominated in their stead.

Get everyone in SJWhore land to vote for those SJW approved candidates, and No Award all others in that category.

It also goes to show that they really aren't in it for the money, or at least have very little money sense. Surprising for a self-published author.

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 6:27 PM  

Noah B - it is the general rule that the author's personal beliefs and politics are strongly reflected in his work.

To greater and lesser degrees depending on the author, yes.

We may as well openly embrace the fact that the political struggle and the struggle for what we consider to be quality literature are one and the same.

Disagree. Quality writing transcends politics. George Orwell was a brilliant writer - for my money's worth the finest English writer of the 20th century - and a socialist. Stephen King is a brilliant writer who has been wrong about politics all his life. Not sure if Shakespeare had any political views.

On the other hand, Redshirts was guff, whatever your politics. Not even the most antisocial of justicey-warriors believes it was truly the "best novel" of the year it came out. It won because of cliquery - small-p politics rather than any overt political content. I suspect even John Scalzi knows that.

And trick novels based on abolishing gender binary are still going to be shite even if one happens to be a rainbow haired she-twink. For there are objective standards in the quality of books, just as with any other artform. The fact that people have a hard time agreeing what those objective standards look like doesn't mean they don't exist.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 6:28 PM  

They don't want to have their food names sullied by being associated with Me.

I confess. I can't come up with a snarky comment that would make this any funnier than it already is.

Blogger JCclimber April 15, 2015 6:33 PM  

"It has come to my attention".....passive aggressive language.
Exactly how did it come to your attention? Did one of your SJW friends point it out?
Were you seriously unaware of the Sad Puppy and Rabid Puppy slates including your work?

Now you can claim to be a Hugo Nominee (TM) who withdrew your title and claim victory points in your next rabbit warren meeting.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 15, 2015 6:39 PM  

Doesn't this undermine the Sad Puppies/Rabid Puppies claim that they're only after good stories irregardless of politics? I mean the people on the left that were nominated via either or both slates and have withdrawn certainly think so.

I suppose the usual suspects will never believe your claim no matter what fwiw.

Anonymous ticticboom April 15, 2015 6:40 PM  

@Steve - Nuttall's early stuff was, not surprising, uneven, but hit his stride by the time he started the Empire Corps series. It alternates core and standalone books. He's got a few other scifi universes, including the Ark Royal one, going as well. Those are great as well.

I haven't read his fantasy, because I've been getting that fix from Moeller lately. I'm not aware of his having written any scifi, if thats your thing. His Tower and Demonsouled series were good to very good, and his Ghost series has been great.

He's actually managed to make a female protagonist in a sword and sorcery setting interesting. Her prefered mode of combat is to have someone else charge headlong inti the enemy while she sneaks around to stab them in the back. A refreshing change from waifs who trade blow for blow with hulks.

Now that I think of it, about the only woman in his Demonsouled series to mix it up regularly, while she had magical powers, tended to teleport behind enemies, backstab them, and teleport out before anyone could react. Much more logical than screaming and charging onto the blades of the enemy like we thickskulled males tend to do.

I've only read the first of his newest series, Frostborn, but it looks off to a good start.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 6:42 PM  

Doesn't this undermine the Sad Puppies/Rabid Puppies claim that they're only after good stories irregardless of politics? I mean the people on the left that were nominated via either or both slates and have withdrawn certainly think so.

I suppose the usual suspects will never believe your claim no matter what fwiw.


I read this message several times, and I still can't figure out whose case you think this undermines.

Anonymous DavidKathome April 15, 2015 6:43 PM  

Does anyone have a link to where Vox posted that he would have put Three-Body Problem on RP and that in the future Tor should consider forwarding those works they think are Hugo worthy to him being one of the bloggers with a big reader base of science fiction fans? Thanks in advance if you find it.

Anonymous Boogeyman April 15, 2015 6:44 PM  

Is there a process where a new Hugo category can be created? If so, I suggest we help create a "Best Socially Conscious Work of Written Fiction of 15,000 Words of More" award.

It will be a void they can't help but fall all over themselves to fill as it will appeal to their overweening desire for both awards and SJW street cred. Of course at the same time it will perfectly demonstrate the problem of message fiction being boring tripe. Imagine an entire short list of crud like "If You Were A Dinosaur My Love II: The Dipshit, Racist, Misogynist, Homophobic Dino-Apocalypse", something where super ninja girl chooses between a brooding, S&M, billionaire vampire and the passionate were-seal gang leader while fighting the evil of capitalist caused global warming, and "Autistic, Color Blind, Samoan Midgets Dig Timelords."

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 6:46 PM  

Steve, unlike the left, I would not advocate smearing or disqualifying an author's work simply because of what he believes in his private life. If I gave that impression, it wasn't what I intended to convey. However, I do believe that it is unusual for an author's work to have no relationship to his politics and that the statement that "quality writing transcends politics" is generally untrue, especially in an age wherein almost everything is politicized.

Although George Orwell was a socialist, he was also vehemently anti-totalitarian. His political views were adamantly expressed through his work. As for the claim that Stephen King is a brilliant writer, I have not read any of his work, but I generally don't care for the screen adaptations unless they have been significantly revised (e.g., Kubrick's version of The Shining) from the original. His politics also are strongly reflected in his writing. For example, had I written Cujo it would have been a very short story. After seeing the movie Cujo it came as no surprise that King strongly supports gun control.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 15, 2015 6:46 PM  

What a bunch of idiots.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 15, 2015 6:51 PM  

I think it is a shame Mr. Kloos is running away now. I really enjoy that series. I remember buying it via email from him directly at the end of a busy workday after seeing it discussed here, and ***plugged*** here.

I am sure many of the ilk were among his first customers. I am still buying the latest installment next week.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 15, 2015 6:52 PM  

I also wish to disassociate myself from the originator of the “Rabid Puppies” campaign. To put it bluntly: if this nomination gives even the appearance that Vox Day or anyone else had a hand in giving it to me because of my perceived political leanings, I don’t want it. I want to be nominated for awards because of the work, not because of the “right” or “wrong” politics.

People really, really are missing the point here.

OpenID cailcorishev April 15, 2015 6:52 PM  

a message with which I agree will tend to improve that story's entertainment quotient, and a message with which I disagree does tend to reduce it.

Nothing wrong with that, since the message is necessarily part of the story. But what we typically don't do -- and what the SJWs have elevated to their prime criterion -- is to judge the work by the author's politics, even if those politics don't show up in the story at all. They don't even consider it necessary to read the book if the author's politics disqualify him. And now we're seeing it work in the other direction: authors who don't want a nomination if it comes from people with the wrong politics, even if it's all about the work. They'd prefer to be nominated by the right people for the wrong reasons, rather than the wrong people for the right reasons.

Clint Eastwood claimed that Dirty Harry was supposed to be a cautionary tale about vigilantism, but viewers cheered him on. So it'd make sense for him to refuse an award from a neighborhood watch committee, for instance, since he would feel that they wanted to award him for the wrong reasons. But in this case, it's like he'd be refusing an award from a Stop Vigilantism Now group because they also happen to be strongly anti-immigration and he's pro-.

If you're on the right, you haven't had the luxury of reading (or watching, or listening to) only right-wing sources, so we couldn't have developed this attitude if we'd wanted to. I don't even know the political beliefs of most of the authors whose books I've owned and enjoyed. I could probably make a decent guess at some, but if they don't let it mess up the story, who cares?

Blogger Tiago Paolini April 15, 2015 6:53 PM  

In the ongoing "it's not the politics of the author it's the quality of the story" discussion, I have to say that I see the two as inseparable, at least to the extent that the author inserts his personal politics into his stories. And I would say that it is the general rule that the author's personal beliefs and politics are strongly reflected in his work.

I think that it depends on how the author see the world. For someone who thinks that everything is political, logically he is ending up to insert politics into his works. People from the left are the ones who usually thinks like that.

Ideally a good author is capable of writing a good story regardless of the politics in the story, if any. I remember John C. Wright saying that he wrote the story "The Last of All Suns" from Awake in the Night Land while he still was an atheist, still the story has a profound spiritual theme because the logic of that story asked for it. On the other hand, he wrote the story "Silence of the Night" from the same book after he became a Christian, and this story has an nihilistic, if not atheistic, theme because its internal logic also asked for it. The stories having elements from different views than his own has not prevented Mr. Wright from writing them solidly.

Blogger Chiva April 15, 2015 6:54 PM  

I liked the Ark Royal series a lot. Are his other books as good?

Nuttals "The Empire's Corps" series is a good read.

Blogger IM2L844 April 15, 2015 6:54 PM  

I am withdrawing because this has become about something very different than great science fiction.

Seriously? Prior to this year it's been all about nothing other than great science fiction? Really?

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 6:55 PM  

I don't think we need to stop purchasing Kloos' books categorically. It is merely information to be considered that he is ideologically so far from us that he considers Vox a "shitbag". That implies that there is likely to be SJW stuff in the product one is thinking about buying.

If you have stomach for that, then buy it if you think it will be otherwise entertaining. If not, then don't buy. He has a right to an opinion about anyone and there are no principled reasons that require us to punish him for it. Now, if he starts advocating CENSORSHIP, then that is an entirely different matter and then I recommend categorical boycott.

Blogger Zimri April 15, 2015 6:58 PM  

Yowch, Marissa. I did *not* see that in the linked blog-post; that blog-post carefully did not show such rage at Vox Day.

Given that glimpse into Kloos's mind, I feel much less bad about having not picked up "Lines of Departure" at this point. I'll wait until he retracts his statement before I consider buying anything else from him.

Anonymous Rollory April 15, 2015 6:59 PM  

I read the Annie Bellet story.

If that was one of the best 5 stories for that category that could be dug up for the slate, then sci-fi is done. There's no need to worry about not burning the whole thing down. There's nothing left worth keeping.

Between the checking-the-box of the Ebil White Guyz, the Ebil White Guyz calling Our Heroine a Bad Name, Our Heroine shooting Ebil White Guyz, the endless talk talk talk and then more talk talk talk, and getting to the end and finding that there's nothing there - this wasn't a good story, not anything I'd consider worthy of any awards, and at the same time exactly the sort of thing I would expect the whining leftists to vote for.

There is no story here. It's a "My mom died" story, with no central conflict that gets resolved by the end ("I resent my mother" gets talked about a bit at the start, then tacked on again at the end, with nothing between, and no reason to start caring about it by the end; "Man vs environment" is there but explicitly unresolved at the end), and certainly not a science fiction story. Bellet clearly thinks she can just McGuffin it and forget about explanations, but as a reader, I want to know: what hit the moon? why did it hit the moon? how did it destroy the moon? how did the energy release involved in destroying the moon not fry the entire hemisphere of Earth facing that direction? was it a natural catastrophe? was it an alien attack? was it incredible luck that the moon happened to be right in the way so it didn't hit Earth? Etc.. These are precisely the sorts of things one would expect to at least be addressed, however vaguely, in a story that pretends to have something to do with science fiction. A story that deliberately sets up such questions and then avoids them as thoroughly as this has no place on a science fiction award ballot.

I know a young woman whose mother died in a car crash last year, her occasional stream-of-consciousness comments on it make for a better story than this.

I haven't purchased anything that won a Hugo or Nebula for the past 10 years. I was lent a copy of "Among Others" last year, which seemed to validate that decision.

Anonymous yerpistan April 15, 2015 7:01 PM  

Thanks, I'll try a throne of bones. Not trying to derail, somehow I missed that post and figured the latest one would be the most active. Been lurking here for a couple years. I may have to vote this year. scalzi is a cunt.

Blogger Feather Blade April 15, 2015 7:04 PM  

Annie's story is available here for free:

It's a real pity that she withdrew - that story is much, much better than the one that replaced it.

Anonymous Laertes April 15, 2015 7:16 PM  

Wait. What story replaced it? I've been looking for news on that, and haven't found anything.

OpenID cailcorishev April 15, 2015 7:19 PM  

I should get an electronic copy of this book, to save on typing in the coming years:

"Bertram Scudder was taken off the air, as a program not in the public interest at the present time."
,,,
"Jim, I want to understand this. Scudder wasn't on her side -- he was on yours. He didn't even arrange that broadcast. He was acting on orders from Washington, wasn't he?"
"I thought you didn't like Bertram Scudder."
"I didn't and I don't, but--"
"Then what do you care?"
"But he was innocent, as far as your friends were concerned, wasn't he?"
"I wish you wouldn't bother with politics. You talk like a fool."
"He was innocent, wasn't he?"
"So what?"
She looked at him, her eyes incredulously wide. "Then they just made him the scapegoat, didn't they?"
...
"Then couldn't you have helped Scudder?"
"I?" He burst into helpless, angry laughter. "Oh, why don't you grow up? I did my best to get Scudder thrown to the lions! Somebody had to be. Don't you know that it was my neck, if some other hadn't been found?"
...
"And it's much better for national policy to let it be Scudder. This way, it's not necessary to argue about what she said -- and if anybody brings it up, we start howling that it was said on Scudder's program and that Scudder's programs have been discredited and that Scudder is a proven fraud and liar, etc., etc., -- and do you think the public will be able to unscramble it?"
...
"I couldn't help it!" he burst out in the silence. "I'm not to blame! I have to take things as I find them! It's not I who've made this world!"

Anyway...if you know the scene, you'll realize that the SJWs (not being as smart as the ones in the book) are currently trying to discredit and ostracize Dagny. But that won't work, so they'll have no choice but to turn on their own Scudders and Taggarts.

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 7:20 PM  

ticticboom - thanks for the recommendations. I find it hard to get into swords and sorcery fantasy (I loved Tolkien but after LotR found everything else pales), but I can't get enough of military sci fi.

Noah B - I would not advocate smearing or disqualifying an author's work simply because of what he believes in his private life. If I gave that impression, it wasn't what I intended to convey.

I didn't think you were. I just disagree that the political struggle and the struggle for what we consider to be quality literature are inseperable.

Although George Orwell was a socialist, he was also vehemently anti-totalitarian. His political views were adamantly expressed through his work.

Yes and yes. But he would still have been a masterful writer had he been a Stalinist.

Probably wouldn't have written 1984 and Animal Farm, but his talent would still have been there.

To take another example, Louis Ferdinand Celine was a fascist, a racist, a nazi collaborator, and a stunningly original and unforgettable writer.

Does his view of the world influence what he writes? Of course. Does what he wrote stop being quality literature as a result? No.

Take a couple of examples from film - Leni Reifenstahl and Sergei Eisenstein. Wonderful filmmakers, shitty politics.

I'm not saying that you're saying you'd disqualify a book because of the writer's politics. I'm just saying that it's possible for art to have a quality as art that we can appreciate irrespective of the political mulch it grew from.

As for the claim that Stephen King is a brilliant writer, I have not read any of his work, but I generally don't care for the screen adaptations

The films are mostly shit, apart from The Shining and Stand By Me. The Green Mile had a - literally - magic negro in it.

King's politics aren't hard to discern in his books. They skew arsehole-left. But he's the best storyteller of the boomer generation.

One of the greatest opening lines in literature is from his Dark Tower:

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Anonymous Nathan April 15, 2015 7:21 PM  

I'm actually waiting to see if they'll follow the JMS plan and just not award the Hugos this year...

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 7:21 PM  

Meanwhile, over at "Not A Blog"...

Anonymous zen0 April 15, 2015 7:26 PM  

Maybe Marko Kloos thinks this is just a passing fad, and he will be rewarded in the future.

And maybe, sometime in the future, Marko Kloos will hear the dulcet tones of Walter Sobchak, repeating over and over,

"This is what happens Marko, when you fuck yourself in the ass.....This is what happens Marko.........

Blogger Feather Blade April 15, 2015 7:27 PM  

Wait. What story replaced it? I've been looking for news on that, and haven't found anything.
This, apparently:
http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-day-the-world-turned-upside-down/

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 7:31 PM  

Tiago Paolini - I think that it depends on how the author see the world. For someone who thinks that everything is political, logically he is ending up to insert politics into his works. People from the left are the ones who usually thinks like that.

Ideally a good author is capable of writing a good story regardless of the politics in the story, if any.


This. Normal people can write good stories and interesting characters, regardless of their political views.

People who are obsessed with politics, who see politics in everything including their breakfast cereal, tend to write shitty books. Because they're not really trying to entertain you. They're trying to convince you. They're not really trying to write interesting characters with motivations that make sense. They're trying to write characters to support the message they wish to push.

Most people who are obsessed with politics are SJW's. For them, the personal is political. There is no such thing to them as a story in and of itself. It must be sifted, weight, inspected from every angle for problematic triggering microaggressions that are not OK.

Chiva - good shout. Thanks.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 7:32 PM  

"But he would still have been a masterful writer had he been a Stalinist."

Obvious this is total speculation on both our parts, but I don't think he would have been. He could not have written 1984 or Animal Farm as a Stalinist, other than as some sort of cynical ploy. More likely he would have written works that would be considered garbage today.

"I'm just saying that it's possible for art to have a quality as art that we can appreciate irrespective of the political mulch it grew from."

I do agree, I just think that what we recognize as art most often stems from an ideology that, if not our own, is at least one we can empathize with. Personally I can empathize with Hindus, Buddhists, even Muslims to a great extent -- but not Stalinists, not nihilists, not the cult of political correctness.

Blogger Feather Blade April 15, 2015 7:33 PM  

Per this site: http://www.thehugoawards.org/

OpenID cailcorishev April 15, 2015 7:33 PM  

I don't think we need to stop purchasing Kloos' books categorically. It is merely information to be considered that he is ideologically so far from us that he considers Vox a "shitbag".

I'm less put off by his withdrawal than by the fact that he uses a word that makes him sound like a 5th-grader trying to sound cool enough to hang out with the 7th-graders. This is a writer? Of what, Transformers fan-fiction?

Anonymous Laertes April 15, 2015 7:37 PM  

We got wires crossed, Feather Blade. I meant to ask what story, if any, replaced the Annie Bellet withdrawn short story. You're providing links to the novelette that replaced John C. Wright's disqualified novelette.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 7:39 PM  

"Normal people can write good stories and interesting characters, regardless of their political views."

Normal people have some underlying ideology that shapes their views -- in the West, that is predominantly Christianity -- and these views shape their work. Largely because of the left's relentless attack on Christianity, these underlying ideologies have been politicized. And while it's certainly possible for an author to base his work on ideology other than his own, this requires greater effort than simply writing about what one already knows and believes.

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 7:44 PM  

Noah B - I think we both agree that it'd be fascinating to read what George Orwell's evil, goateed Mirror Universe twin would have come up with.

"1984, or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love Big Brother"

Anonymous Rollory April 15, 2015 7:44 PM  

David Gerrold has some comments also.

https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10205360779551319?pnref=story

in which we learn that "unpersoning" is not Marxist because it originates with Stalin.

So I checked my shelf. Total number of Gerrold books: zero.

Ok then.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 7:45 PM  

If we were masters of time and space, that would be an interesting experiment to run.

Blogger Adam Lawson April 15, 2015 7:49 PM  

The withdrawal kind of makes the point: quality never mattered. That Vox Day, the evil *ist scary man, dared to consider it quality is enough for a SHUNNING. I don't believe for one second that they would have dropped out if the firestorm hadn't been started over VD.

Still waiting on anyone from the SFWA to disassociate from Marion Zimmer Bradley.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 7:52 PM  

Also, notice in the way they are pressuring Brad how not denouncing Vox is the equivalent of associating with Vox.

Anonymous Nathan April 15, 2015 7:53 PM  

"in which we learn that "unpersoning" is not Marxist because it originates with Stalin."

Wow. Someone really didn't think that defense through or the obvious rejoinders.

Anonymous LinkPosterGuy April 15, 2015 7:54 PM  

Vox has been given the keys to the Hugo Award kingdom. It is not just, as many have pointed out, that his recommendations may cause some to voluntarily drop out. If Vox recommends someone and they win, he can claim, by their own logic, that it is not a REAL win. Thus, Vox has veto power over all possible Hugo winners from the SJW (or insert appropriate clique here) side.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 7:57 PM  

Also, notice how it's the leftists who drop out. This gives an excellent argument for not nominating leftists following years. They would just drop out anyway.

Anonymous Scott D April 15, 2015 7:59 PM  

Black Gate website reports that longtime Hugo presenter Connie Willis will not present this years awards. http://azsf.net/cwblog/?p=116

Anonymous pdimov April 15, 2015 8:04 PM  

If Vox recommends someone and they win, he can claim, by their own logic, that it is not a REAL win.

I sense many PNH and Scalzi wins in the future.

Anonymous ticticboom April 15, 2015 8:05 PM  

http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-day-the-world-turned-upside-down/

WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. READ???!!!

That was... beyond bad. That was Livejournal sitting in a corner with the lights turned off the Cure blasting as it cuts itself bad.

I fear for my mental health after somehow forcing myself to read the whole thing. I can only assume the poor tortured wretch who wrote that is either in an asylum or cemetery.

Yeah, I'll be shelling out $40 again this year. If that wins, the Hugos won't just be a corpse, it'll be cremated.

Heinlein wept.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:07 PM  

WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. READ???!!!

The same thing as Dinosaur. A woman talking about her feelings, lightly sprinkled with stuff that she thinks SF/F-ey.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 15, 2015 8:08 PM  

"I feel sorry for Brad, who hoped reform was possible. It isn't. It can only be ridiculed. "

As soon as he posts a notice, in the virtual world of the internet, his X number of thesis, to be debated, I will nickname Brad, Martin Luther.

On to the reformation ...

:)

Anonymous Salt April 15, 2015 8:10 PM  

The comedy just keeps on giving. - GRRM

Anonymous Steve April 15, 2015 8:11 PM  

Scott D - Connie Willis was a longtime Hugo presenter?

Why?

Her writing is as tedious as watching paint dry in an igloo. I read (Hugo award winning) "Doomsday Book", and its singular achievement was to make time travel boring.

I also read her reasons for not going to this year's prom--I mean, Hugos. It's not cute when an old lady throws a temper tantrum.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:12 PM  

I think Vox Day is a shitbag of the first order, and I don’t want any association with him, especially not a Hugo nomination made possible by his followers being the deciding factor. That stench don’t wash off.

We nominated you folks, because we didn't care about politics. We thought the story good, so we nominated it.

Sadly, you folks threw these nominations to our faces. So, with heavy hearts, we must start nominating only authors on the right side of the aisle the years to come. We didn't want to, but you gave us no choice.

Anonymous ticticboom April 15, 2015 8:18 PM  

At least Dinosaur was mercifully short. I should've stopped reading as soon as it went from the world literally turned upside down to "Oh, woe is me, I've been dumped, that is far more traumatizing." I REALLY should've stopped reading when he went for the damn goldfish and not the woman. After that it was one 'dafuq?' after another. "Okay, five year old girl, go fall into void with the crazy old ladies. Have fun!"

I truly, sincerely, with no sarcasm, hope this guy is seeing a competent mental health professional.

On the other hand, this is probably the least surprising thing on that whole page:

"In English, his short fiction has appeared from Tor.com..."

Blogger Krul April 15, 2015 8:18 PM  

ticticboom, I feel your pain.

If you haven't yet, I recommend you read the story that was removed from the ballot and replaced by "Upside Down": Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus by John C Wright. It is genuinely moving.

Anonymous Salt April 15, 2015 8:18 PM  

Revolution every now and then is a good thing. The Hugos are getting a douching. This is going to be a fun summer.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:20 PM  

Oh, it was a guy.

Only hindu gods have enough hands for adequate facepalm.

Blogger Jim April 15, 2015 8:21 PM  

This seems like a win-win scenario for Vox again. Any year Kloos writes a good story, Vox can throw him on the RP slate to simultaneously promote a worthy story and watch a(n immature) critic commit seppuku over it.

If I really and truly believed someone was a shitbag, I wouldn't give them any power over me as Kloos has just done.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:27 PM  

From GRRM comments:

"The slate-making is also problematic in that it is all about winning the prize rather than enjoying the process. "

Uhh... BOY, do you have it the wrong way around...

Blogger Krul April 15, 2015 8:30 PM  

As bad as "The Day the World turned Upside Down" is, I actually encourage everyone to read it. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First of all, comparing it to the story it replaced shows the true value of the Puppies campaigns. It isn't about politics or ideologies or right vs left, it's about quality vs crap, worthy vs worthless, happiness vs depression, intelligence vs stupidity.

Second of all, "Upside Down" is wonderfully instructive in one thing: the Gamma mindset. It perfectly expresses the Gamma perspective, from the main character's pathetic pining dependency on the woman who wants nothing to do with him, to his selfish hatred of the same woman when she still wants nothing to do with him later on.

If you don't know what Vox means when he says "Gamma", just read "The Day the World Turned Upside Down" and you'll know exactly what he means.

Anonymous Scott D April 15, 2015 8:30 PM  

RE Steve

Scott D - Connie Willis was a longtime Hugo presenter?

Why?

3 Hugo Novel winners while not working for TOR? Must be some kind of accomplishment.

I never read or heard of her before. I was just noting more fallout from the kerfluffle.

Anonymous Grue and Bleen April 15, 2015 8:31 PM  

We didn't want to, but you gave us no choice.

That would put SP/RP at a significant rhetorical disadvantage. The accusation of promotion along political lines would actually be true. RP2 would be much easier to decry and ignore.

Although RP isn't helped by Vox's instructions encouraging "those who value [his] opinion on matters related to science fiction and fantasy to nominate [the works] precisely as they are". I was quite surprised to see that. How is this reconciled with the honest motivation of thinking the story good?

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 8:34 PM  

"How is this reconciled with the honest motivation of thinking the story good?"

The same way it's reconciled when Tor does it, I guess.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 8:37 PM  

"That would put SP/RP at a significant rhetorical disadvantage."

Nah. If anything, an overt political contest will probably draw more people instead of fewer. You white libs are greatly outnumbered.

Blogger Edd Jobs April 15, 2015 8:38 PM  

Rollory - David Gerrold, the notorious plagiarist of Robert Heinlein, moral posturing against Brad Torgersen? Irony isn't a strong enough word.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:40 PM  

Grue: Thinking it good by whom? The voter? Yes, the overwhelming majority of voters would certainly end up nominating at least some works, not because they formed an opinion on it, but because they trusted Vox's judgement on it.

But by Vox? I'm almost certain that Vox knew that Kloos is in the opposite corner than he is. Because right when I saw the name in the list, I thought "Hmm. Isn't this guy already on warfoot with us?"

So, yes, the contents of the slate tell me that Vox indeed nominated what he thought good. However, the system was such that a lot of voters would hold no opinion on some nominations, one way or the other.

As for why Vox did it that way, well, I know the answer but I'll let Vox speak for himself.

Blogger Kevin Blackwell April 15, 2015 8:41 PM  

I guess Vox Day should nominate every work Marko Kloos puts out from now until eternity. Another Xanatos gambit?

Anonymous Grue and Bleen April 15, 2015 8:41 PM  

You white libs are greatly outnumbered.

Who? Me? Wrong number.

Anyway, an overt political contest might be entertaining for a few, but all this talk about good writers deserving recognition will just look like hot air.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:42 PM  

That would put SP/RP at a significant rhetorical disadvantage.

If it weren't for these authors, it most certainly would have. But now we can show that when we actually did it, all but our intellectual allies withdrew. That is new information, that should be factored in, following years.

Frankly, I didn't expect them to do that. But since they did, well, it can't just be ignored.

Anonymous Viidad April 15, 2015 8:42 PM  

@ Noah B

Good work at The Germ's blog (golf clap).

Blogger Russell April 15, 2015 8:43 PM  

@Rollory

For the most part I agree with your critique. Still, "Goodnight. Stars" was a lot better than "If you were weightless, my love"

But neither hold a candle to "Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus"

@Markku
"Oh, it was a guy."

I made the same mistake. I was surprised when I figured that out.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 8:45 PM  

"Good work at The Germ's blog (golf clap)."

Thanks man. It's probably going to end with him banning me. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 8:48 PM  

Or, I'm assuming it will play out that way. Perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps these are isolated incidents. Well, that would change the conclusion then. But at this point, I think it will. Everyone who withdraws is adding pressure to the next person to withdraw.

Anonymous Grue and Bleen April 15, 2015 8:52 PM  

it can't just be ignored.

I expect it will be, is all. Every time someone prepares a hit piece, they'll point out that RP2 is strictly Right. And every time, Vox's peeps will have to write a buried comment in the thread challenging "Don't you remember Kloos and Bellet from last year?"

Thinking it good by whom? The voter? Yes, the overwhelming majority of voters would certainly end up nominating at least some works, not because they formed an opinion on it, but because they trusted Vox's judgement on it.

I submit I don't fully understand the nomination process and what is actually expected of voters. I'm just surprised voting for works unread is considered reasonable. I've no dog, or puppy, in the fight.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 8:54 PM  

"As for why Vox did it that way, well, I know the answer but I'll let Vox speak for himself."

It looks like Vox gave Kloos a broken arrow, and Kloos wouldn't let him sit in his tepee.

Anonymous pdimov April 15, 2015 8:54 PM  

Any attempts to pressure Kratman to withdraw should be televised. And youtubed.

OpenID cailcorishev April 15, 2015 8:56 PM  

But now we can show that when we actually did it, all but our intellectual allies withdrew.

If they can get all such authors to withdraw, then thanks to memories being short, soon they'll claim that RP only nominated RP-published/written works or other ultra-right-wingers, and that was why it had to be opposed with extreme prejudice.

Anonymous Laertes April 15, 2015 8:57 PM  

Got a link to the Kloos statement on facebook? I can't find it.

Blogger Johan April 15, 2015 9:00 PM  

"Only one thing for certain: no matter what happens, Vox Day will declare that he's won." - GRRM

GRRM, the king of modern trufans, has agreed with Vox that this whole thing is a Xanatos Gambit! Wouldn't it be awesome if GRRM had a character based on Vox in Winds of Winter? A villain of that cunning would make the novel infinitely better than the last two.

Thanks, Vox. Rabid Puppies has made these last couple of weeks very enjoyable. I love the taste of SJW tears.

Blogger Markku April 15, 2015 9:03 PM  

I expect it will be, is all. Every time someone prepares a hit piece, they'll point out that RP2 is strictly Right. And every time, Vox's peeps will have to write a buried comment in the thread challenging "Don't you remember Kloos and Bellet from last year?"

Yes. that is indeed a rhetorical challenge in that option. It would require better control of the narrative. On the other hand, nominating SJW's is now shown to be the equivalent of sacrificing that slot. Both are things to consider.

Now, of course, I'm not actually involved, so this is just shouting from the sidelines. It's just so entertaining to analyze the strategies and play armchair general.

Blogger Bard April 15, 2015 9:04 PM  

Can these fucktards come off as a bigger group of passive aggressive idiots? He just withdrew to absolutely prove everything Vox has been saying about the Hugo Awards is true! He was nominated for his story and declines due to politics?!# If he was nominated by a half savage, obese, trancis, gender bending, alien faggot would he gladly accept?

Blogger bob k. mando April 15, 2015 9:05 PM  

posted to germs journal:
how many times have you listened to those on your side of the aisle denigrate "beardy, old, white men", George? or how about DWEMs? that would be Dead, White, European Males, i first heard that one some twenty years ago.

have you looked in the mirror lately, George?

they're already accusing YOU of racism for having brown people make a Nazi salute to your blonde, white, goddess savior on the HBO show. they're already accusing YOU of misogyny for all of the sexy rape time you have going on in your books.

http://artthreat.net/2013/06/game-of-thrones-and-racist-fantasy/

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/apr/29/game-of-thrones-racism-sexism-rape

ask not for whom the bell tolls George, it tolls for THEE.



grrm Apr. 15th, 2015 10:10 pm (UTC)
The topic is the Sad Puppies. The Hugo Awards.


yes. and you disqualify, Disqualify, DISQUALIFIED the Sad Puppies on the basis of their involvement with Vox Day. only, Vox Day has no involvement with the Sad Puppies. he ran the Rabid Puppies slate.

YOU were the one who forced Vox Day into this conversation.

now it's on you to justify holding Vox ( who says that NK Jemisin is *more* Homo sap sap than he is ) to absurd standards while permitting Jemisin to slander and libel entire nations.

you want to let Jemisin throw a temper tantrum because of Trayvon?

WHAT DOES TRAYVON HAVE TO DO WITH AUSTRALIA, George? a nation which, by the by, has already instituted stringent gun control so that 'people that look like NK Jemisin' don't have to be afraid of getting shot.

Blogger Bard April 15, 2015 9:06 PM  

To hell with these people. Literally. There is no reasoning with them. There is no middle ground. Burn it down and start over. You created your own publishing company, create your own award as well....After you prove theirs is worthless.

Blogger Unknown April 15, 2015 9:06 PM  

In all fairness, "Terms of Enlistment" was way better than "Lines of Departure".

Blogger Guitar Man April 15, 2015 9:08 PM  

I have to admit, the RP campaign has entertained me more than most recent works of SF. Each day it gets better. Burn down the Hugos for all I care, I just want to read quality stories!

OpenID deutschefolkhero April 15, 2015 9:11 PM  

You haven't seen excremental my friend, until you've read some choice Matt Ward WH40k lore! Hahaa!

Blogger rcocean April 15, 2015 9:11 PM  

"They'd prefer to be nominated by the right people for the wrong reasons, rather than the wrong people for the right reasons."

Great Comment. Frankly, I'm not going to be buying Mr. Kloos' books since he obviously would disagree with my politics and consider me - as our delightful J. Scalzi would put it - a shitbird.

Anonymous Rollory April 15, 2015 9:12 PM  

For all the disagreements I have with Vox, he certainly makes all the right enemies.

OpenID cailcorishev April 15, 2015 9:12 PM  

Every time someone prepares a hit piece, they'll point out that RP2 is strictly Right. And every time, Vox's peeps will have to write a buried comment in the thread challenging "Don't you remember Kloos and Bellet from last year?"

That would be a problem, assuming we wanted to approach it on their terms as if this is about a PR battle.

Blogger Feather Blade April 15, 2015 9:12 PM  

You're providing links to the novelette that replaced John C. Wright's disqualified novelette.

Oh, hm, oops! I misread the site. Sorry for the confusion.

WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. READ???!!!

For a story written in the "Meebling Emo" voice, it's alright.

The description of the water was pretty evocative and attempting to visualize what was happening made me dizzy, so if that was the author's intent, then "mission accomplished".

When he introduced the girl on the swing, I was hoping that the story would go in the "This is what happens when you swing yourself over the top bar of the swingset," but alas.

I'm afraid, though, that the lingering impression the story left was "You did what to the goldfish?!"

Maybe it works better in the original Dutch?

Blogger rcocean April 15, 2015 9:13 PM  

If these SJW's are going to run around shunning everyone to the right of Obama, it'd be rather silly of me to give them money, since they'd hate me the second they found out I post here at Vox day.

Blogger rcocean April 15, 2015 9:16 PM  

Its amazing how conservatives just can't keep themselves from reacting to every outrage from the Left by worrying about the Moderates or how we should not lower ourselves to "their level" or how we shouldn't take any strong action because "that would be the wrong strategy".

LOL!

Blogger rcocean April 15, 2015 9:17 PM  

Its amazing how conservatives just can't keep themselves from reacting to every outrage from the Left by worrying about the Moderates or how we should not lower ourselves to "their level" or how we shouldn't take any strong action because "that would be the wrong strategy".

LOL!

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 9:18 PM  

"Can these fucktards come off as a bigger group of passive aggressive idiots? He just withdrew to absolutely prove everything Vox has been saying about the Hugo Awards is true! He was nominated for his story and declines due to politics?!# If he was nominated by a half savage, obese, trancis, gender bending, alien faggot would he gladly accept?"

See Bard, the fundamental problem here is that you're using facts and logic to arrive at an outcome. The SJWs are just emo-vomiting on whatever target is closest at hand. They were perfectly happy to scream "RP is right wing only!" even when it wasn't. So now that it is even more right wing than it was -- what difference does it make? The accusation hasn't changed, only the facts. And facts don't matter to them.

Blogger Krul April 15, 2015 9:22 PM  

cailcorishev - But what we typically don't do -- and what the SJWs have elevated to their prime criterion -- is to judge the work by the author's politics, even if those politics don't show up in the story at all. They don't even consider it necessary to read the book if the author's politics disqualify him.

Exhibit A: Orson Scott Card. The excessive reaction to the Ender's Game movie, which the SJW's acknowledged had nothing whatsoever to do with the actual content of the movie or the novel, but with OSC's personal beliefs, was what opened my eyes to how ridiculous they have become.

They'd prefer to be nominated by the right people for the wrong reasons, rather than the wrong people for the right reasons.

The "right people" in this case include rapists and child molesters. Much more acceptable than people who supposedly once made "sexist", "racist", or "-phobic" comments.

Anonymous enraged April 15, 2015 9:24 PM  

Just deleted all my Marko Kloos books off my kindle. Numerous 4 star reviews will be deleted next. Kloos can go fuck himself, he's a fraud and I want my money back.

Anonymous FP April 15, 2015 9:25 PM  

Bellet's Goodnight Stars is far better than the world turned upside down story.

Its sad they're withdrawing but not too surprising. They fear the freight train of SJW group think going against them. Just look at Zoe Quinn testifing in Congress today over cyber bullying. Now Sarkesian of Feminst Frequency is going after news site Polygon, who has been on the sjw side.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/32qa7l/drama_femfreq_goes_salty_at_polygons_objective/

Blogger bob k. mando April 15, 2015 9:29 PM  

http://grrm.livejournal.com/421363.html
My friend Janice Gelb, long time worldcon volunteer and SMOF, has suggested that the only thing we can do at this point is abolish the Hugo Awards altogether.



muwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 9:30 PM  

"posted to germs journal:"

Good on you, bob mando. Rhetorically taking down GRRM is like sinking the Bismarck -- ultimately not of any major strategic significance, but of enormous worth in terms of morale and bragging rights.

Pour it on him. We have developed thick skins from decades of gladiatorial internet discussions. He's used to living in an echo chamber and talking with kind adoring fans, and this shit is getting to him big time.

Anonymous Alec April 15, 2015 9:31 PM  

You know what does wash off? My Amazon pre-order for Kloos' next book.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 9:32 PM  

That means you're a verified purchaser, Alec. Rate wisely.

Anonymous Roundtine April 15, 2015 9:34 PM  

I guess the next step is to contact Scalzi and tell him to stock up on Gamma Rabbit shirts.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 15, 2015 9:36 PM  

I was expecting withdrawals but I didn't want to say the next phase might be such. Oh well! So well!

I maintain that VD, SB GamerGate, Larry, Wright, Crevald are of integrity, light and sanity.

While I maintain my MRA/anti feminist views, I am dissatisfied with certain men on the other side.

Not that my silly stances matter. What is most important is continued HUGO/SJW coverage.

Blogger Jim Bro April 15, 2015 9:36 PM  

Marko Kloos should be embarrassed.

Honestly, who would want to read military fiction from someone who is a confirmed coward?

This has pretty much inspired me to buy a membership just so I can help Vox become best editor.

All the comments (some of which were probably from the same people who anonymously threatened him with death or boycott earlier, but I digress) on his blog congratulating him on his "tough decision" and telling him that NOW they'll be buying his book are particularly disgusting. Welcome back to the herd Mr. Kloos; I know it was scary out in the wild. Here, have a hug.

Moving on, maybe the best reaction is start planning to make next year even more extreme by nominating books that are openly hostile to cultural Marxism.

For example, has anyone heard of Submission by Michel Houellebecq? It's about an Islamic takeover of France in the near future, so it qualifies as Sci-fi, and has generated a lot of undeserved "controversy" (by having the audacity to say that France should be French). The English isn't out yet, but the French is excellent. Also, Houellebecq is far better a writer than any genre author I can think of.

Thoughts on other books coming out this year?

Anonymous Roundtine April 15, 2015 9:41 PM  

It's about an Islamic takeover of France in the near future, so it qualifies as Sci-fi

What is the definition of sci-fi for an award? That is on my reading list as soon as its in English.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 15, 2015 9:42 PM  

Here is something that wont make it past moderation on Dwarf That Pays for Sex Blog.
RE: Failed gay bashing
If you look at the video of the first day of testimony by Skittle's girlfriend Rachel Jeantel(available on you tube) you will see she states that she was on the phone with him when he spotted the white-Hispanic. She testified that he thought GZ was gay and checking him out making it a failed gay bashing. When the San Francisco Gate published the demographics of bashers & crimes Queens clutched their pearls and cried on their fainting couches because they would rather be victims than know who they are victims of. Hint: a demographic that is only 5% of SF makes up over 60% of crimes, and at 8% of public school students is 71% of PS students arrested. For real gay news stop by GayPatriot.

The left ignoring the liquor store robbery video of the Gentle Giant Mike Brown, where Gentle beats down an Asian clerk and the gang of "hands up witnesses" participate in the robbery, was still saying Gentle was doing god's work a week after the video was available and heavily edited by most stations.

The ultimate leftist hypocrisy was 2 weeks after the Ferguson liquor store robber was killed a serial killer of gays for religious reasons in 3 states was caught. Had Mohammad Ali Brown not been a black moslem it would have been a bigger story than Matt Shepard.

Only one side can show raw video instead of just 4 seconds or less at a time.

Blogger Krul April 15, 2015 9:44 PM  

Roundtine - What is the definition of sci-fi for an award?

If "If you were a Dinosaur my love" and "The Day the World turned Upside Down" qualify, then I'm sure speculative military futurism does as well.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 15, 2015 9:45 PM  

Now pondering the "shitbag" comment: Angles of Attack will be the last Kloos book I buy. Really liked the series, want to see him conclude it. Would have voted Lines above Skin Game (love Dresden Files, but Skin Game wasn't my favorite installment, way better than Cold Days though Imho).

If he thinks Vox is a "shitbag"...what is it with these guys and their "[solid waste anatomy related]-bag" insults anyways?!? Straight out of 6th grade. Anyways, he'd no doubt think I am one as well. *laugh* Obviously never considered the adage about keeping silent and being merely thought a fool.



Anonymous B Lewis April 15, 2015 9:46 PM  

As a person who has done business with David Gerrold, and who has had his work "appropriated" by same without benefit of permission or compensation, I can assure you that he is just as oily, self-aggrandizing, effete, and arrogant in person as he seems in text. Imagine the world's largest fourteen-year-old boy...

Anonymous Anonymous April 15, 2015 9:47 PM  

From Monster Hunder Nation a qoute from Marko Koos:

On reflection: I apologize to Vox Day or calling him a shitbag. I loathe his politics and race diatribes, disagree with his theology, and have absolutely nothing in common with him philosophically, but there’s no reason to get uncivil and resort to name-calling.


I wonder if it finally dawned on the man how utterly ugly his initial quote from facebook made him look.

He may have lost more fans and potential fans than he realized.

Blogger bob k. mando April 15, 2015 9:49 PM  

Vox
What is with these SF writers and their absolute preoccupation with all things excremental anyhow?


well, it would appear that they haven't yet mastered applying a good enema before they practice analingus on each other.

time for some Tubes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9mCA1he1zM



Noah B April 15, 2015 9:30 PM
Pour it on him.


i would say, "nawp, i'm good."

but him being what he is, he's liable to say something else gobsmackingly idiotic at any moment and troll me back in there.

he can make no rational answers to any of my questions, because there are none.

i'm gutting him with his own refusal to have objective standards, while simultaneously pointing out that his side is crowding him off the edge of the cliff ... USING HIS OWN NON-STANDARDS.

it's glorious hilarity, all on it's own.

look at that slippery slope, George! such a nice, easy slide down to the water. i wonder what awaits you there? hath the kraken been released? is leviathan come to honor you with his presence? maybe a megalodon? perhaps a shapeless swarm of Box jellys would be more to your temperament and character?

Blogger Guitar Man April 15, 2015 9:50 PM  

He should be ashamed, Jim Bro, but he proved the point of the RP campaign. If you don't have the right thoughts, and if you even have an inkling of being passively associated with someone who is of the wrong persuasion, then you better quickly disavow any perceived connection to the wrongfans.

I long ago stopped worrying about what others think about me. It has made a huge difference in my life.

I don't know anything about Kloos, but I assume that he's the type of person who often falls into peer pressure and has a fear of man that is characteristic of one who is outside the influence of Christianity.

Blogger Krul April 15, 2015 9:51 PM  

From Monster Hunder Nation a qoute from Marko Koos:

On reflection: I apologize to Vox Day or calling him a shitbag. I loathe his politics and race diatribes, disagree with his theology, and have absolutely nothing in common with him philosophically, but there’s no reason to get uncivil and resort to name-calling.


Good on him, if this is real. It's gratifying to see an attempt at professionalism from their side, however belated.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 15, 2015 9:51 PM  

Feeling like a fool myself for leaving a polite, positive comment at Kloos' before seeing his "shitbag" comment.

Anonymous Sensei April 15, 2015 9:53 PM  

Shun. Shun. Shun...

Typical rabbiting, nothing to be surprised over. Vox is persona non grata, it doesn't matter why they're on the ballot, it only matters that it's Vox's ballot. Getting a Hugo for a rabbit is not about personal achievement, it's the warren's recognition. That's all they crave. If it's even conceivable they have Vox to thank, it defeats the whole purpose of the award as far as they're concerned, and bowing out is necessary to demonstrate allegiance to the warren. SP nomination is controversial, but RP nomination is an inherent shibboleth.

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 9:59 PM  

"he can make no rational answers to any of my questions, because there are none."

He can't rationally respond to mine either. Nevertheless, he is momentarily going to the trouble to respond. Even if this changes in the near future, at least for the time being our posts are having an effect.

The rules there are much looser than they are here because that crowd is completely undisciplined. You can get away with rhetoric there that would never, ever fly here.

Anonymous jack April 15, 2015 9:59 PM  

@Markku:
Sadly, you folks threw these nominations to our faces. So, with heavy hearts, we must start nominating only authors on the right side of the aisle the years to come. We didn't want to, but you gave us no choice.

Well spoken, Markku, well spoken!

I paid good money for both Terms of Enlistment and Lines of Departure; and, was satisfied it was well spent. I agree with someone up page that found Lines not as good as Terms.
With this look at the underpinnings of Marko K., any future considered purchases of his product might not make the cut. I suspect he may enjoy a reverse spike in his sales now. Too bad. The attack on Vox via FB was uncalled for...

Blogger Noah B April 15, 2015 10:00 PM  

"Feeling like a fool myself for leaving a polite, positive comment at Kloos' before seeing his "shitbag" comment."

Don't. What do you expect yourself to be, a mind reader?

Anonymous Giuseppe April 15, 2015 10:03 PM  

Dude!
I write SF and I', not into excrement! AT ALL!
Ok, I DO have that one anal sex scene but it's a guy doing a girl, and if that counts...hmmm...ok well whatever man. Don't lump me in with the people who use faggoty terms like shitbag and dipshit and shit-eating grin, etc.

Giving a pretty girl a hard ass banging may be wrong and I may go to hell for it, but I will at least be in a DIFFERENT hell from THOSE "SF" writers. Put it that I will be in the same hell as those who voted for Cicciolina. Cause I guarantee in that section of Hell where Cicciolina and people like me may end up, at least the SJWs are not!

Blogger The Deuce April 15, 2015 10:06 PM  

Heh, you know what would be awesome for next year? If it could be somehow arranged so that John Scalzi was nominated on the Rabid Puppies slate, but that the first runner up was, say, a lesbian SJW woman of color, who he'd thereby be "robbing" of a Hugo by accepting the nomination, turning SJWs everywhere against him if he didn't refuse it.

Anonymous TroperA April 15, 2015 10:08 PM  

http://grrm.livejournal.com/421363.html
My friend Janice Gelb, long time worldcon volunteer and SMOF, has suggested that the only thing we can do at this point is abolish the Hugo Awards altogether.


So they're giving serious consideration to nuking the awards from orbit?

They remind me of a ten year old kid who's been told to give his beloved toy to a hated rival to play with, and he decides he'd much rather see it destroyed than see it in the hands of the person he hates so much.

It'd be laughable if these petulant children weren't educating our kids and determining the public policies we have to live with.

Blogger beerme April 15, 2015 10:11 PM  

I get the feeling that Kloos is just a very strange individual. He experiences breakout indy writing success yet uses it to get a literary agent and sign with Amazon. He writes "Why The Gun Is Civilization" yet openly seeks the approval of those who would write him off as a right wing nutjob for writing that excellent essay.

Anonymous Dick D. April 15, 2015 10:13 PM  

This is one of the most entertaining sh*tshows in recent years.

Its not about politics to the gatekeepers until they are cast down from their entitled positions. Now its all about politics. Hilarious.

Very telling is the bemoaning of the increase in Hugo voting membership. How is a more democratic, representative electorate a bad thing? Well you know the answer to that. Pure lulz that they consider the Hugos to be "ruined" now.

Don't double down ilk, quadruple down. The pig squeals from the usual suspects are the sounds of victory.

Blogger Marissa April 15, 2015 10:14 PM  

Got a link to the Kloos statement on facebook? I can't find it.

Larry reported it: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/15/well-this-sucks-2/

Blogger Krul April 15, 2015 10:15 PM  

It's really not necessary to change anything with Rabid Puppies in response to Ballet and Kloos' withdrawals. Vox can simply continue nominating the highest quality works, any rabbits will graciously remove themselves from the contest, and the awards will go to authors who don't mind being associated with Vox. Looks like the best possible result to me.

Blogger Buddy E. April 15, 2015 10:16 PM  

Next year, rabid puppies should just nominate all the PC acceptable works that are pimped by scalzi et al. Surely they'll all have to refuse nom.

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