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Thursday, April 30, 2015

Compare and contrast

The SJWs in science fiction believe that if they can control the narrative, if they can convince the media to tell the story their way, they are going to retain their control of the science fiction establishment. They are given every opportunity to spin the narrative and make their case; Brad, Larry, and I were contacted by a Wall Street Journal reporter yesterday, which was a welcome change from most of the coverage that we've been seeing of late, but so too were John Scalzi and George Martin.

It's just like one sees on the cable news. If a talking head has on a liberal guest, the liberal appears alone to sell the narrative. If a talking head has on a conservative guest, a liberal guest usually appears to dispute the narrative. And although it is only a guess, I suspect that the way that the story is likely to go will be moderately anti-Puppy, in light of the reporter actually "playing devil's advocate" in conversation with me.

When I pointed out how the Puppy case is bolstered by comparing the number of Hugo nominations belonging to those in the Making Light clique, (15 for Charles Stross, 15/14 for Patrick Nielsen Hayden, and 9 for John Scalzi compared to 12 for Isaac Asimov, 12 for Robert Heinlein, and 7 for Arthur C. Clarke), the reporter shot back, and I quote, "yeah, but they're editors!"

Although I pointed out to him that a) Charles Stross and John Scalzi are not, in fact, editors, and b) Isaac Asimov was an editor as well as a writer, I got the feeling that he was not likely to quote me concerning those readily observable and very telling facts. We'll see, perhaps I'm wrong.

But the anti-Puppy influence over the mainstream media is largely irrelevant. Because, when people look more closely at the situation, here is the sort of thing they are seeing the Anti-Puppies say:

Anna Feruglio Dal Dan: "It’s not the Hugo ballot – that is a problem, but I am solving it by gleefully voting No Award to lots of categories, and I think I will make a point not to read any of it just to annoy you – it’s the strutting and posturing and pronouncing of you guys that I find hilarious. OK, I tell a lie, some of you are just boring and lame, Kratman for example can’t even insult people creatively, but you have moments of pure comedy genius."

Hampus Eckerman: "Honestly, when you are saying that there are no unwritten rules, the only thing you’re really saying is that you haven’t got the social competence to notice them. Even when people write them on your nose.

Mickey Finn: "I’ve been making my way through the short stories, novellas and novelettes, and so far haven’t even encountered a competently polished turd.

NelC: "I’m not absolutely convinced that you’re not the type of loony who thinks he can gain advantage by pretending to be a (different kind of) loony, but either way, you’re seriously fucked in the head."

Alexvdl: "I think you have articulated better than anyone else why Beale’s (and other puppies) reliance on rating systems shows how far outside fandom they are."

Whatever reader: "I had a great time voting “No Award” today... I’d rather give the award to a trash can than to the crap they spent years working on."

By contrast, here is how the non-Puppies in the field see the situation.

Rick Moen: "I think it’s abundantly clear what about the Beale and Torgersen campaigning and (apparent) acquisition of nomination votes has made habitual Hugo voters and Worldcon co-goers very annoyed and (in my estimation) in a mood to terminate what they see as behaviour hostile to the Worldcon."

Whereas here is how at least some of those outside science fiction are seeing it:

Greg Ellis: "When all of this blew up I was not even a non-attending supporting member of WorldCon. I’ve known about the Hugos for years, but never knew I had, as a fan, a chance to vote for nominees or on the final ballot. That all changed this year. What also changed was that I came down on the Sad Puppies side of the debate. For awhile I was trying to look at both sides and judge equitably. I was trying to be fair and open-minded and non-biased. Then I asked the wrong question of the wrong people at the wrong time. Even Brianna Wu chimed in on that one. I was a “white supremacist” by mere association with Brad Torgerson and Larry Correia because they knew Vox Day and I was friends with Brad and Larry on FaceBook. Guilt-by-association. I do not tolerate being accused of something that anyone who knows me understands that I am not. You want to push me into somebody else’s camp, make an accusation like that."


RI: I've been a spectator to this conflict for several months now. To be honest, I didn't even know who any of the participants were when I first started following. Now, because of the outcry against you, Mr. Correia, and Mr. Torgersen I have become a daily reader of your blog and am rapidly burning through Mr. Corriea's books.

Bojoti, a Worldcon Supporting member appears to share similar sentiments:
I knew absolutely nothing about the Sad Puppies until this year. I knew of the Hugos but little about them, either. I'd followed George R.R. Martin's Not a Blog for years, and I remember him encouraging people to vote because the Hugos were their award (except now, they aren't). But, back then, I had a house full of kids which meant less time for reading and fewer dollars for sure! Now, the kids are gone, and I have more of both of the aforementioned. When I discovered that WorldCon would be held in the Midwest in 2016, I was excited and decided to get a supporting membership for this year and attend the next.

I didn't realize all the turmoil about Sad Puppies until after the nominations were announced. I came to the situation too late to nominate and unaware that my membership would be an affront to the TrueFans. I just wanted to participate in and give back to a genre that has been integral to my life. Instead, I find that I'm not welcome at the cool kids' table, which is ironically hilarious, because my science fiction ways were unpopular to the non-science fiction crowd of my youth.

As is my researching way, I took to the Internet to look at all sides. I went all the way back to the inception of Sad Puppies. I read "Making Light." I Googled, read, and digested from a wide spectrum from news sources (most very biased and inaccurate), authors' websites, Twitter, and Facebook.

I think what the TrueFans and Sad Puppies don't realize is that they are being watched by the great unwashed masses, hoi polloi, the little people of science fiction. Some of the behavior and rhetoric is so hateful and venomous that I regret my membership. Authors were saying that the new members didn't love science fiction; they were claiming that they didn't even read! Some were even saying stupid things like the Koch brothers bought my membership. TrueFans were disgusted by the thought of new members. They like the WorldCon being small and are actively against new members.

I'm rethinking attending WorldCon 2016. I'll wait to see what happens at Sasquan before I decide. If people are going to act crazy like a frenetic bag of cut snakes, I want no part of that fandom (or Fandom). I don't need to spend money to be ostracized, belittled, and hated. I'm sure I can get that for free, elsewhere!

The TrueFans are pushing the new members right into the Sad Puppies' doghouse. I wasn't a Sad Puppy, but if the TrueFans don't want me, they have proven the Sad Puppies' charge of insular exclusivity. When the TrueFans band together and decide as a bloc NOT to read the works and agree to vote No Award to Sad Puppy nominations, they've lost any respect or sympathy I had for them. When people advocate putting the Puppies "down," I'm horrified. When people write "basically if the "hero" isn't white and male, the Puppies will get all Sad at you and threaten to rape you to death. Like the good, tolerant humans they are, natch," I'm sickened. When an author opines the correct way to treat the Sad Puppies is "Well, we make fun of them. We refuse to play with them. We refuse to share our resources with them," I flash back to the petty games of the middle school mean girls' cliques.
Baen Books author John Ringo has an idea where things are headed and why:
The SJBs, CHORFs, what have you are facing an uphill climb. Their ‘award winning authors’ are hardly popular in the mainstream (also frequently boring as shit on a panel) and every convention which has tried to stay entirely ‘SJW’ has found it has little or no market.

The CHORFs accuse the SPs of ‘fighting to retain white-male privilege.’ The reality is that the CHORFs are desperate to retain any sort of relevance at all. 'Their' conventions are failing. 'Their' books don't sell as well as 'pulp crap'. 'Their' magazines are losing circulation and closing. Lose control of the Hugos and they become irrelevant. And desperate regimes get crazier and crazier the more desperate they become.
They are not completely irrelevant yet. But they will be. And they fear it. Their over-the-top reactions make that very clear indeed.

Labels: , ,

92 Comments:

Anonymous Stilicho April 30, 2015 4:44 AM  

With the SJW's it has always been about them and the books and stories were just a way to talk about themselves and their feelings. It is no wonder, then, that their infestation of the SF/F genre has resulted in declining interest in the genre. No decent, sane, normal fan wants to read yet another paean to a writer's self-image.

Blogger JACIII April 30, 2015 5:06 AM  

It is good to see objective readers draw the conclusion that the Pups have been correct in their assertions and the "trufans" are bitter, hostile, obnoxious, rude, and insular. And I hope the common objective SF reader is interested enough to do some research like Bojoti, but MPAI...... then again there is extremely high entertainment value to the ongoing tales of the SFWA.

Blogger chris April 30, 2015 5:07 AM  

Let us see. Scalzi has not written anything that good after the Old Man's war trilogy, and the last book was weak. Stross has Bob Howard, who is getting better (and Stross is a good writer: I like his Laundry stuff) but his other series... sort of sell.
On the other side, Baen sells truckloads. Mainly via (hiss) Amazon -- you try getting science fiction through local bookshops when you live in provincial New Zealand, where the only remaining good bookshops are very left wing and don't know it.

The Hugos had become irrelevant. They may be relevant again. One can always hope.

Blogger So Meh April 30, 2015 5:12 AM  

William Reichard

“My God, it’s full of puppies” – April 29

(Laughed out loud at that one. well played Sir. once again, best $40 I've ever spent...it's been so entertaining. hope to see all the badthink evil minions in Finland. Helsinki has a beautiful airport. people are very quite and nice.)

Blogger doofus April 30, 2015 5:39 AM  

I came up with this the other day at another blog, and I thought you might find it amusing.

"First they came for Vox Day, but I did not say anything, because Vox Day was an asshole, and I was not.

Then, I didn’t say anything because he was so busy bitch-slapping them and I was laughing so hard that I couldn’t stop. So, that turned out well."

Blogger doofus April 30, 2015 5:47 AM  

Another, more serious, observation.

Personally, I just don't get it. The Puppies didn't like what the SJW crowd was doing. What did they do? They went out, got a bunch of people to vote, and changed it. If the SJW crowd doesn't like what the Puppies are doing, all they have to do is to go get MORE people to vote and change it.

Don't like slate voting? (Which charge I dispute, by the way. But, even if it WERE true...) Get a bunch of people to vote, and change it.

Don't like Vox Day? Get a bunch of people to vote, and change it.

The answer to all of it is: Get a bunch of people to vote, and change it.

I would bet that if there were 25000 ballots cast and the SJW anointed winners took the prizes that there would not be a murmur from the Puppies side. In fact, I venture to say they might even admit that they had been wrong about the tastes of fandom at large.

Given that the answer is so simple (Get out and vote!), it is very revealing that they choose instead the low road of propaganda, personal attacks, and fact-free screeching about all the imagined badthink that the Puppies commit.

Projection, it trips the SJWs up every time.

Blogger Nameless Minion #58710 April 30, 2015 6:00 AM  

I'm new to the Sasquan/Hugos supporting membership deal and I have a question. Is it normal to only receive a receipt on the original sign-up date? I received my receipt from Paypal, however I haven't received anything further from Sasquan. I'm don't know if I should be contacting Sasquan or if this is the normal process.

Anonymous Steve April 30, 2015 6:08 AM  

But the anti-Puppy influence over the mainstream media is largely irrelevant.

Oh, it's completely irrelevant, because the internet.

The days when we relied on TV news anchors and print journalists to tell us what's going on are long gone. We've seen the Emperor, he's bollock naked and a gimpy little fucker who talks out of both sides of his mouth.

If mainstream media shaming still worked, GamerGate would have gone away by the fortieth or four millionth time gamers were called evil misogynist terrorists.

I'm amused to see the Making Lighters still think they'll win if they can nuke the Hugos with "No Award" this year. It's like they're allergic to learning.

My advice to them is go for it. Pay no attention to that Harry Callaghan-looking rabid puppy hoping you'll make his day.

and every convention which has tried to stay entirely ‘SJW’ has found it has little or no market.

Unless you like tranny rape. WisCon has that market covered.

Blogger Shimshon April 30, 2015 6:10 AM  

Regarding John Ringo's post. League of Evil Evil? Am I missing out on double evil?

Anonymous Steve April 30, 2015 6:11 AM  

Nameless Minion #58710 -

Well met, my fellow henchman!

Go to the Sasquan website and request a voting PIN.

http://sasquan.org/hugo-awards/pin-lookup/

Anonymous Steve April 30, 2015 6:38 AM  

Some were even saying stupid things like the Koch brothers bought my membership.

She should've joined Rabid Puppies. The Koch Brothers did buy our memberships, paid for in gold bars which they reverently laid at the feet of Vox during an elaborate, yet sinister, ceremony.

There was dancing and singing and a Wicker Man full of Tumblr users. Vox spent a lot of time gloating over an atlas, but it was cool when he mingled with some of us faceless minions, giving a friendly pat on the arm here, or a "guards, seize him!" there.

The after dinner speakers were fun. Kratman expounded on the finer points of crucifixion. Saddam Hussein had us in stitches with his account of how he got one of his body doubles to stand trial for him. I wasn't sure what the Shoggoth was saying, but when he raised a glass with his tentacly appendage in a salute to Vox we all joined in.

It was a Hootenanny of Hate.

Anonymous Strange Aeons April 30, 2015 6:41 AM  

What does CHORF translate to in longhand?
I somehow missed this acronym.
Thx in advance

Vile minion #0017

Blogger Shimshon April 30, 2015 6:53 AM  

Strange Aeons: https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/chorf-its-a-word-now/

Blogger Nameless Minion #58710 April 30, 2015 7:02 AM  

Thank you for the help, Steve.

Anonymous Strange Aeons April 30, 2015 7:06 AM  

Mystery solved, thanks Shimshon.
Not that it isn't an apt description, but perhaps a bit cumbersome, comparatively. I'll just stick to "SJW".

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 30, 2015 7:23 AM  

This is also a glimpse into the ramshackle nature of the Left itself, something you won't hear from the clowns of the official "conservative" movement.

Any SJWs here? And can you tell me why you are not protesting in Baltimore with your political coalition partners? Is making Scalzi and the other cult leaders richer more important than standing alongside your political coalition partners? Why aren't you helping the youth of color, proving to us that you really are that morally superior?

Maybe I'll switch to being a SJW if they can prove their case instead of spewing hateful rhetoric.

Blogger Darth Toolpodicus April 30, 2015 7:27 AM  

@ Minion #58710

There's definitely a delay in getting the information from Sasquan, I haven't gotten mine yet either, nor is my PIN in the database. I was going to give it a few more days, then email.

Blogger bob k. mando April 30, 2015 7:45 AM  

so, if we combine the new UVA policy with WorldCon ... do we get the Rape-o Awards?

Blogger Nameless Minion #58710 April 30, 2015 7:47 AM  

Once I filled out the PIN lookup form, I got my ID and PIN in about an hour. I also logged in to check and the ballot was available. I just need to actually read the nominations before I vote, because I won't vote for or against anything unless I've read it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 30, 2015 7:53 AM  

Some were even saying stupid things like the Koch brothers bought my membership.

Called it!

Yes, the WSJ article will be anti-puppy with a thin veneer of objectivity pasted over the top. Look for GRRM to get the final quote at the end of the article. He knows how to play that game.

WSJ is a liberal newspaper with a conservative readership. Murdoch's ownership has made no impact at all.



Blogger Salt April 30, 2015 8:14 AM  

I'm curious what impact the article will have on the market Indexes. I suspect the DOW will gain new heights, but if by chance it's RP all the way, it'll be a black swan event - DOW down a few thousand, the rocket exploding on the pad.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 30, 2015 8:15 AM  

John Ringo added a more important element to the fight yesterday. He want's to change the term from Social Justice Warrior to Social Justice Bully.

An innovation I totally get behind. SJB has less syllables for a start. That counts for more than it should.

For another it has the world Bully in it. For ridiculous reasons, they can't "own" the term Bully the way they can, Warrior. That also counts for more than it should.

Anonymous Steve April 30, 2015 8:20 AM  

Darth, Minion #58710 - the Sasquan delays are a good sign for sad and evil puppies. It shows how much interest there is this year.

Forces are massing on the horizons around Sasquan. In the West, Brad the Barbarian leads an expedition of mithril-armoured knights and stout yeomen. Their green and red banners flutter brightly, and the sound of mingled laughter and bagpipes carries from them on the fresh spring breeze.

But in the East there is a gathering darkness. Lord Vox sneers imperiously from his black chariot, the severed heads of his conquered foes bobbing and swaying on leather straps. His horde of wargs, death-eaters, giant radioactive scorpions and faceless minions roars in a single, infernal voice "We... Don't... Care..."

Anonymous Knarf April 30, 2015 8:20 AM  

> "trufans" are bitter, hostile, obnoxious, rude, and insular.

And they usually smell pretty bad, too. I'm not saying this as a childish insult. I'm serious. People, if you're going to spend four days in a hotel at a science fiction convention, just as a courtesy to others, use the shower once in a while. Bring more than one change of clothing. And there's this thing called "deodorant." Look into it.

OpenID cailcorishev April 30, 2015 8:20 AM  

If the SJW crowd doesn't like what the Puppies are doing, all they have to do is to go get MORE people to vote and change it.

That would still be a failure in their minds, though. They loved having this little, insular clique of the best kind of people who got to decide what SF/F people should read. The exclusivity, the feeling of being the cool kids who didn't let anyone else sit at their table in the school cafeteria, was what it was all about. If they have to bring in a few thousand people to vote with them, that spoils the whole thing. Even if the new people are fellow SJWs, they won't be the Special people who deserved to run the Hugos behind closed doors without criticism.

At this point, they can't get that back, no matter what they do. That's why they're happy to burn it down like a Baltimore drugstore -- it's not "theirs" anymore.

Blogger Student in Blue April 30, 2015 8:26 AM  

I'm waiting for my noms to arrive so I can read them. Still... waiting...

OpenID cailcorishev April 30, 2015 8:29 AM  

For ridiculous reasons, they can't "own" the term Bully the way they can, Warrior. That also counts for more than it should.

You don't believe them when they claim to be "owning" things, do you?

I still think SJW is better, because it's ironic. Calling them bullies, though accurate, takes them too seriously. Calling them warriors emphasizes that they're not.

Anonymous Harsh April 30, 2015 8:31 AM  

I think I will make a point not to read any of it just to annoy you

No, that just proves the point that Vox made -- and we all believed -- all along. There is and has been a clique of Hugo voters who always vote along political lines and never for merit. So fire away.

it’s the strutting and posturing and pronouncing of you guys that I find hilarious

Annie baby, you wish you could find a man in your life that strutted and postured like we do.

Blogger natschuster April 30, 2015 8:33 AM  

I'm don't really understand why SJW's are so worked up over the HUGO's it only effects science fiction fans and writers. Could it be that they perceive science fiction as a predominantly male pursuit, and they can't have that? The idea that some boys and men are enjoying gut stuff bothers them, so they have to ruin it for everyone. It may be that they are going after professional sports next.

Anonymous Lulabelle April 30, 2015 8:41 AM  

"Annie baby, you wish you could find a man in your life that strutted and postured like we do."

She'd melt like buttah.

Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 8:42 AM  

[I'm amused to see the Making Lighters still think they'll win if they can nuke the Hugos with "No Award" this year. It's like they're allergic to learning.

My advice to them is go for it. Pay no attention to that Harry Callaghan-looking rabid puppy hoping you'll make his day.]

**********

As Brad Torgenson put it, they're playing chicken with the Kurgan.

OpenID joshtheaspie April 30, 2015 8:44 AM  

So, is there still time to register and get a packet and vote?

If so, were does one do so? I didn't see that info in the sad puppies slate.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 8:47 AM  

Ringo is a "card carrying member" of the ELoE?


MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Blogger Salt April 30, 2015 8:52 AM  

@ joshtheaspie

http://sasquan.org/

Blogger Student in Blue April 30, 2015 9:00 AM  

@cailcorishev
I still think SJW is better, because it's ironic. Calling them bullies, though accurate, takes them too seriously. Calling them warriors emphasizes that they're not.

It's not only the warrior part. Nothing about the term "SJW" truly embodies them, it's just what they lie about being. Social? They're hardly civil. Justice? They wouldn't understand the term if it stared at them from a dictionary. Social Justice? Please, they're in it for themselves.

Anonymous Quartermaster April 30, 2015 9:01 AM  

I love the sound of SJW whining in the morning. It sounds like victory!

Blogger Student in Blue April 30, 2015 9:02 AM  

If anything, I'd call them Self-centered, Pernicious, Lying Cowards.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 9:03 AM  

Actually the most amusing thing about GRRM bitching about the "made up insult SJW" is that the SJW's are the ones that made it up and self-applied it.

Blogger John Wright April 30, 2015 9:05 AM  

"The after dinner speakers were fun. Kratman expounded on the finer points of crucifixion. Saddam Hussein had us in stitches with his account of how he got one of his body doubles to stand trial for him. I wasn't sure what the Shoggoth was saying, but when he raised a glass with his tentacly appendage in a salute to Vox we all joined in.

It was a Hootenanny of Hate."

All I can say is, I hope all you faceless minions of evil are getting your $40 bucks worth.

The posts on this blog here are better written and more entertaining -- and contain more science fiction -- than the Hugo winning short stories from last year.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 30, 2015 9:06 AM  

Regarding John Ringo's post. League of Evil Evil? Am I missing out on double evil?

Ringo doesn't need to be in anyone's evil club. He's an independent evil.

As all real men should be, frankly. All of these calls to belong to something kind of confuse me, frankly. Whatever happened to the American icon of the rugged individualist? Whatever happened to the descendants of the Border Reivers who always were the only truly free Americans, who kept moving west to avoid obnoxious elitist plantation owners and proto-totalitarian Yankees both trying to tell them what to do?

Blogger Krul April 30, 2015 9:07 AM  

Nate - 'Ringo is a "card carrying member" of the ELoE?


MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH'


"Ring-OOOO... Ring-oooo..."

OpenID cailcorishev April 30, 2015 9:09 AM  

I'm don't really understand why SJW's are so worked up over the HUGO's it only effects science fiction fans and writers.

Here's how it happened. SF/F has always been relatively open to the strange. SJWs always feel like subversive outsiders, even today when they run most institutions. So some of them, who had a nerdy enough bent to be at least mildly interested in SF/F, got involved in it as readers and then as writers, editors, or "fandom." They may have felt welcome for the first time in their lives, because again, SF/F was pretty open to anyone and anything.

Over time, they took over and began changing the industry in their image, because that's what they do. It's not enough to be welcome despite their weirdness; everyone else has to be as weird as them and in the same ways, so they're safe from feelbad. The Hugos became one of their primary tools for maintaining and extending that control over what's allowed. They couldn't control every publisher, and certainly not self-publishers, but they could control what books could stamp that award on the front, which had a lot to do with what books got promoted in bookstores and libraries.

Most of all, the Hugos were theirs. Now it's like the jocks are coming into the A/V room every afternoon to watch game tapes while their cheerleader girlfriends sit on their laps and giggle. It's intolerable.

Blogger Student in Blue April 30, 2015 9:13 AM  

@cailcorishev
It's intolerable.

It's certainly intolerable, because when they try to emulate, they wind up getting crushed by their girlfriends.

Blogger Salt April 30, 2015 9:29 AM  

All I can say is, I hope all you faceless minions of evil are getting your $40 bucks worth.

Way more than an added set of Ginsu knives.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 30, 2015 9:35 AM  

I still think SJW is better, because it's ironic. Calling them bullies, though accurate, takes them too seriously. Calling them warriors emphasizes that they're not.

@Cail

There is a major problem with your line of thought.

You cannot be fiendishly subtle with a moron because:

They. Will. Not. Get. The. Joke.

Anonymous Daniel April 30, 2015 9:36 AM  

No, SJW works on all levels. One, it mocks their "warrior" nature, two, it allows them to broadcast their lying nature to everyone else by adopting or admitting to or "embracing" it, three, everyone knows what it means.

Oh, and four, the SJWs loathe the term.

Anonymous Ha April 30, 2015 9:36 AM  

"Kratman for example can’t even insult people creatively,"

Nothing makes me laugh more than reading Kratman tear some hapless tranzi a new one!

Anonymous jack April 30, 2015 9:37 AM  

Well: Above some spoke of going to Sasquan and getting pin numbers and vote ballots. I have yet to get any kind of confirmation and its been three weeks. Would have been nice of Sasquan to let me know all this; or, maybe I missed in it the small print. Will try for the pin shortly. Wish me luck.

Anonymous joe doakes April 30, 2015 9:39 AM  

The SJWs need to find more votes to win. Hmmm, that sounds oddly familiar. Liberal Senator Al Franken of Minnesota was behind by 200 votes in the initial balloting in 2008 but suddenly hundreds of ballots turned up and he was elected by 300 votes, some of which were found in the trunk of an election official's car and some didn't exist at all - the actual ballots had gone missing. And that was AFTER the Liberal Secretary of State managed to screw overseas military voters.

SJWs can't win if they don't cheat. Look for it at Hugo this year.

Blogger Vox April 30, 2015 9:41 AM  

Oh, and four, the SJWs loathe the term.

And that's the only thing that matters.

Anonymous The other robot April 30, 2015 9:53 AM  

Seems there was a problem with PIN mails or something, but things are back on track, they say.

Blogger Salt April 30, 2015 9:54 AM  

@ cailcorishev

I think SJWs are just plain weak people; emotional children. They're the product of years, decades, of being shamed, capable of being shamed, by feminism. To avoid the shame they embraced it, even concluding more is better (some feminists find them abhorrent), carrying it throughout society, pervading everywhere. Now it's institutionalized, has become systemic. They view the Hugos as institutional, like universities, where badthink, otherthink is not permitted. This is one aspect that separates #Hugogate from #Gamergate, the gaming industry not being institutional.

Anonymous Trimegistus April 30, 2015 10:10 AM  

I disagree about Stross. The first two or three Laundry novels were good, but lately they have turned into "Bob Howard encounters a Lovecraftian menace which is served and aided by people Charles Stross doesn't like." He's long since abandoned the clever idea of pastiching different spy writers; now the stories all sound the same and the plots aren't clever.

Part of the problem is Stross's relentless partisanship. Actual spy novels tossed in ambiguity: the spies sometimes have more in common with their adversaries than the people they are trying to serve and protect. Stross isn't capable of that much empathy. His good guys have to be The Cool People and his bad guys have to be people he doesn't like. And the moral/social landscape is forever frozen in about 1990.

One thing about the Puppies imbroglio is that Stross has engaged in so much public display of bitter assholishness that I no longer mind the decline in his work. I won't be buying it.

Anonymous Stilicho April 30, 2015 10:25 AM  

It was a Hootenanny of Hate.

Excellent. That should be a regular feature of Ilkmoot.

Anonymous Banjo April 30, 2015 10:27 AM  

Ok, so I admit to not having read anything by John Ringo. Seems I should resolve that situation. Is there a consensus starting point?

Anonymous Donn April 30, 2015 10:30 AM  

Trim - His good guys have to be The Cool People and his bad guys have to be people he doesn't like. And the moral/social landscape is forever frozen in about 1990.

1990? Good God that is a horribly homogenized time. I can't wait to go back to the 1950's when Mom and Pop stores were on every corner (not Quicky Marts) and you knew the name of the people in your neighborhood.

Anonymous The other robot April 30, 2015 10:33 AM  

Ok, so I admit to not having read anything by John Ringo. Seems I should resolve that situation. Is there a consensus starting point?

You could always start with Under a Graveyard Sky to get a feel for his, uhhh, tendencies wrt SJWs.

I think he was trying to become one in that book.

Anonymous Donn April 30, 2015 10:33 AM  

Banjo - Don't read anything with an actual harem in it (unless you're really into that sort of thing). Yes, he veers from the action occasionally.

That said, he's one of my favorites. I just don't have a taste for 'I dream of Genie'.

Anonymous The other robot April 30, 2015 10:35 AM  

Hmmm, no packet as yet but voting is happening. I guess that the second in a series where the first in the series won a Hugo could not really be ground breaking.

You can look up your PIN it seems, here: http://sasquan.org/hugo-awards/pin-lookup/

Anonymous Alexander April 30, 2015 10:36 AM  

Well isn't this interesting.

On April 19, 2014, Scalzi had an article titled:
Solving My Racist Sexist Homophobic Dipshit Problem

You will all recall that Scalzi rejected to the nickname 'McRapey', and thought that by giving money to incest-born gay black girls everytime it was used, the ELoE would hiss in pain at being so foiled.

However, in that exact thread Mr. Scalzi makes the following comment.

(out of deference to rabbits in this thread, I offer you a TRIGGER WARNING. Continue at your own risk)


Come on, now. Everyone hug. ~ John Scalzi.

Are we to assume this was satire, as well? The man simply can't help but reveal his nature even in a post disavowing it.

Anonymous Alexander April 30, 2015 10:39 AM  

Banjo,

I have only just picked up Ringo for the first time this week. After all the howling and hollering about TOM KRATMAN LIKES THE NAZIS, I figured that having enjoyed Tom's other works, I ought to go ahead and read his Posleen book and find out what all the fuss was about. Hint: It wasn't about what was actually in the book.

Liked it, so I picked the series up back from the beginning. Currently on Gust Front, enjoying that too.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 10:41 AM  

"Banjo - Don't read anything with an actual harem in it (unless you're really into that sort of thing). Yes, he veers from the action occasionally. "

So don't read the Bible then?

/facepalm

Blogger Blume April 30, 2015 11:00 AM  

His Co authored work with David weber

Anonymous Stingray April 30, 2015 11:19 AM  

They are not completely irrelevant yet. But they will be.

And then we see where their true alliance lies. Will they follow the strength of the group (my bet) or will they stand on their "ideals"? Their choice will show what they believe is truly important to them.

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 11:24 AM  

So don't read the Bible then?

THAT'S ONLY SYMBOLIC!

Blogger Poor Guy April 30, 2015 11:25 AM  

Some of the comments are so right. The over-the-top hostile reaction by the SJW's to anyone daring to ask questions that challenge the narrative push people away. This only helps the puppies and proves their point even more. (It's already proven of course)

Blogger Russell April 30, 2015 11:28 AM  

@Steve
"It was a Hootenanny of Hate."

Thanks for that. Much better than "If You Had No Gravity, My Love"

The SJWs don't get it. The more they try to shame the Faceless Horde with name calling, the more we embrace it.

In the words of Nate "We Don't Care."

That's almost as good as Wendell's "Meeeeeeewhooooooooo Floooooooooooo Hooooooooooooooon!"

More pithy, at least.

Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 11:28 AM  

Ringo's got a lot going on. Take a look: http://www.johnringo.org/

Council Wars: A sci-fi/fantasy mashup. It's on the back burner so I'd go through the rest of his bibliography before starting it.

Legacy Of The Aldenata: Alien invasion. It's branched along the lines of Eric Flint's 1632 universe, with other authors dipping an oar into it. Loved Kratman's Watch on the Rhine.

Empire of Man: Odyssey in space with David Weber.

Dark Tide Rising: Zombie Apocalypse, Rage Virus style rather than undead.

Looking Glass: Space Opera with Travis S Taylor, a redneck rocket scientist.

Paladin Of Shadows: Technothriller with... how do I put this? Google 'Oh, John Ringo, no!' Not for everyone. The first book was pure id he HAD to write out of his system; you might want to skip that, depending on your tastes. It's three stand alone stories that you don't need to have read to get the rest of the series. The Keldara are interesting. Descendants of the Varangian Guard who keep to the old ways. Course, that's not to everyone's taste, either. There's that scene where the women get their hands on some Chechens...

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 30, 2015 11:34 AM  

Any SJWs here? And can you tell me why you are not protesting in Baltimore with your political coalition partners?

All those poor inne cent blacks will not hurt you or rob you, its racist to think otherwise.

For ridiculous reasons, they can't "own" the term Bully the way they can, Warrior. I always thought it was misspelling Worrier

Saddam Hussein had us in stitches with his account of how he got one of his body doubles to stand trial for him .
Tell him he needs to get back to the middle east to make it safe for Christians jews & gays.

The idea that some boys and men are enjoying gut stuff bothers them, so they have to ruin it for everyone

Many can't conceive that there are people that can be happy with just a beer and a ball game on. Then there are those who are envious of it. They also believe that others play all the same dirty tricks they do, even if it would make no sense.

Blogger Marissa April 30, 2015 11:39 AM  

Steve, many thanks for your well-written posts. You should go into a longer form.

You know the Hugos are broken because no Takeshi Kovacs novel by Richard K. Morgan has ever been nominated. Those books are a riot, good fun and interesting sci-fi. Yet because it's "technically" military sci-fi, and the main character is shown in a favorable light even though he's a--gasp!--soldier, sometimes, it was shunted away into the dark. I can't believe this guy isn't more well-known.

Blogger Poor Guy April 30, 2015 11:52 AM  

Sol-Con was going to the big science fiction of the year, Bri herself was going to host a panel on transsexual lesbianism in science fiction. Everything looked to be running smoothly until the day of the pre-nomination nominating began. That is when they came.

At first everyone just assumed they were cos-players from the Sol-Con Anime & Comic section until they started waving away their nominating ballots in the air. They didn't even speak any Spanglish, Ringlish or Konglish, in fact they weren't even from Earth.

Aliens had arrived for the Sol-Con Science Fiction Convention & Awards! At first it seemed like a happy and epic day in human history, first contact. Soon, though, it dawned on Bri and the other like-minded members that this would put everything they had worked for into jeopardy.

"We cannot let them hijack the awards!" Bri warned the others "Nobody on this planet has even read their nominees! I never even thought aliens would be sci-fi fans!"

Fans they were, indeed, rabid fans indeed. Once their translation devices were working properly they could hold lengthy conversations about the merits of Heinlein, Asimov and other luminaries of the genre. These fans from far away solar systems were quite well-read.

"These nominations" one of the panelists began, he was an older, balding man with glasses "Are definitely not the progressive, sensitive and gender-justice stories we are use to seeing"

"Outrageous! This hero, Prokeestin, has twenty slavish females in his basement? That is just demeaning and sexist" an older woman who sat on the Governing Committee said tossing one of the translated works aside. "I don't care if they are a squid-like species, I cannot allow this"

Bri was just as flabbergasted. "Oh my Hillary. In this story, the lead character is Bilkarisha and they have no genders. When you think about it, they are almost mocking people like me"

Sol-Con was in shambles. The aliens had arranged ahead and purchased 10,000 memberships with full voting privileges. Meanwhile the Governing Committee was poring over the old bi-laws to find a way to ban non-humans from voting.

Bri, though, knew. Just knew that something extreme was required to save Sol-Con and their progressive goals in assuring the awards went to the "right kind" of people. Her days as High School Boys Judo Champion was coming back, she had a sword in her hotel room.

Kalimari was on the menu!

Blogger Student in Blue April 30, 2015 12:06 PM  

If this story doesn't involve a cheap-as-hell pig-steel $30 "imitation" katana breaking (because admit it, they don't know real weapons), then you've just broke my suspension of disbelief.

Squid-aliens are A-Okay though.

Blogger Poor Guy April 30, 2015 12:10 PM  

That is a good point about the sword. I was thinking of the kind of story that the SJW might enjoy (or not).

Blogger Poor Guy April 30, 2015 12:10 PM  

I wish I could edit that post.

Blogger Pinakeli April 30, 2015 12:10 PM  

Student in Blue April 30, 2015 9:13 AM

@cailcorishev
It's intolerable.

It's certainly intolerable, because when they try to emulate, they wind up getting crushed by their girlfriends.


I don't think that is the problem. They just get so wheezy trying to inflate them.

Blogger Poor Guy April 30, 2015 12:13 PM  

rofl

Anonymous Jack Amok April 30, 2015 12:42 PM  

That would still be a failure in their minds, though. They loved having this little, insular clique of the best kind of people who got to decide what SF/F people should read. The exclusivity, the feeling of being the cool kids who didn't let anyone else sit at their table in the school cafeteria, was what it was all about. If they have to bring in a few thousand people to vote with them, that spoils the whole thing. Even if the new people are fellow SJWs, they won't be the Special people who deserved to run the Hugos behind closed doors without criticism.

They can only be big fish in the very smallest of ponds.

As to the debate between SJW and SJB, I'm in the SJW camp. As Cail said, "warriors" really emphasizes how cowardly they are. And as Student in Blue pointed out, it makes every single word in the title a lie. The truth is that they're anti-social cowardly proponents of injustice. Injecting "Bully" into the mix would ruin the perfect inversion. An inversion they came up with themselves by the way. It's kind of like McRapey - Scalzi called himself a rapist, but does anyone here really think he'd have the courage - let alone upper body strength - to physically overpower a resisting woman?

Cataline Sergius, of course they won't get the joke. And even if they did, they'd like about it. The people who matter will get the joke though.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop April 30, 2015 12:44 PM  

Oh, and four, the SJWs loathe the term. -Daniel

And that's the only thing that matters. -VD

I think SJWs are just plain weak people; emotional children. They're the product of years, decades, of being shamed, capable of being shamed, by feminism. To avoid the shame they embraced it, even concluding more is better (some feminists find them abhorrent), carrying it throughout society, pervading everywhere. Now it's institutionalized, has become systemic. -Salt

The over-the-top hostile reaction by the SJW's to anyone daring to ask questions that challenge the narrative push people away. This only helps the puppies and proves their point even more. (It's already proven of course) -Poor Guy

One of the SJW's more accurate and truthful terms is "trigger word". The term comes from the mind control/behavior modification field, and depicted in movies like Manchurian Candidate. A "trigger word" is like an interrupt request to the main rabbit programming (another terrific word) that sends the rabbit mind to a subroutine called "Psychotic Break". The more of these seen in public, the better.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW April 30, 2015 12:49 PM  

Dark Tide Rising: Zombie Apocalypse, Rage Virus style rather than undead.

Yeah, because even a manufactured virus can afford to carry around unnecessary RNA (since it was claimed to be an HxNy type of virus.) I wonder how the packaging works on that.

Blogger Darth Toolpodicus April 30, 2015 1:04 PM  

Ringo covered that multi-payload pathogen in DTR as an example of a cutting-edge genetic engineering breakthrough that only a handful of researchers were capable of. A reasonably plausible extrapolation device for the sake of the story.

No different than say a 1G constant boost drive for a spacecraft to make the plot go faster, no pun intended, like in Sword Into Darkness (FANTASTIC read btw).

Bitching about one, you might as well bitch about both

Anonymous Forrest Bishop April 30, 2015 1:50 PM  

"...Bri, though, knew. Just knew that something extreme was required to save Sol-Con and their progressive goals in assuring the awards went to the "right kind" of people. Her days as High School Boys Judo Champion was coming back, she had a sword in her hotel room.

"Kalimari was on the menu!" ...-Poor Guy

...Bri gathered in its rolls, took the reins of its tranny’s leash, and with a defiant toss of its rainbow wig, prepared itself for the arduous journey across space and time, to Room 2204 out in the West Wing.

Blogger Poor Guy April 30, 2015 2:12 PM  

rofl

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 30, 2015 2:26 PM  

http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html

I don't know if it's the best place to start with Ringo, but after that, can you resist the novel? I can't.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop April 30, 2015 2:34 PM  

Student in Blue April 30, 2015 9:00 AM
@cailcorishev
I still think SJW is better, because it's ironic. Calling them bullies, though accurate, takes them too seriously. Calling them warriors emphasizes that they're not.

It's not only the warrior part. Nothing about the term "SJW" truly embodies them, it's just what they lie about being. Social? They're hardly civil. Justice? They wouldn't understand the term if it stared at them from a dictionary. Social Justice? Please, they're in it for themselves.
============

Count their own term- Social Justice Warrior- as one lie. Each individual word is then three more lies, for a total of four lies in their own self-descriptor. Any two of these words together are also lies. There are three such combinations- Social Justice, Social Warrior, and Justice Warrior. 4 + 3 =7, for a total of seven lies in a single descriptor.


Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 3:53 PM  

Engineering a virus that only attacks certain ethnic groups is probably possible today, although it would almost certainly mutate into something less discriminatory, and less vulnerable to the vaccine that only the completely insane wouldn't develop along side it.

Which won't stop someone from making and releasing it. Thank God we're facing jihadis instead of Nazis.

Also, no one wants to talk about it, but every pandemic/grid collapse/EOTWAWKI scenario shows that poor urban populations, especially the black segment, get hit HARD. Effectively, blacks outside the rural South would disappear. And they wouldn't go alone; the 'Golden Horde' would eat everything (and eventually everyone) in their path before they finally collapsed.

OpenID cailcorishev April 30, 2015 4:11 PM  

They. Will. Not. Get. The. Joke.

We don't care. The joke is for us.

But they do get it, whether they admit it or not. As Daniel said, they hate it. GRRM refused to even use it without disclaimers.

If you're a big, burly guy, and some pipsqueak keeps coming up and challenging you to a fight, which burns him more, calling him a pipsqueak or calling him Tough Guy?

Blogger SirHamster April 30, 2015 4:32 PM  

Count their own term- Social Justice Warrior- as one lie. Each individual word is then three more lies, for a total of four lies in their own self-descriptor. Any two of these words together are also lies. There are three such combinations- Social Justice, Social Warrior, and Justice Warrior. 4 + 3 =7, for a total of seven lies in a single descriptor.

There's a certain beauty to the description when you put it that way.

SJWs always lie.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW April 30, 2015 4:50 PM  

Engineering a virus that only attacks certain ethnic groups is probably possible today,

I don't think so. You would have to find some difference between the races in the proteins sticking out of some of their cells that a virus's attachment proteins can bind to and then enter the cell.

Perhaps the closest you could get would be the some strains of theHIV viruses, because it seems that some Europeans (and a highish percentage of Jews) do not express the required CCR5 protein on the surfaces of the appropriate cells ...

Oh wait. Maybe it was engineered.

Anonymous 0007 April 30, 2015 6:01 PM  

Thanks for that link, Josh, I had forgotten how hysterically silly it was - along with the comments, heh, heh, heh.

Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 7:52 PM  

"Oh wait. Maybe it was engineered."

Considering it only affects those with... questionable habits (sodomy, drug use, the 'dry and tight' virgin rape experience Bantus are into) if you were a eugenicist unburdened by morality your only concern would be it getting into the donated blood supply. Since they started testing the infection rate for non-drug using straight whites (and I think Asians) is almost zero, although I've heard of women catching it from down-low boyfriends.

Plus those groups tend to have more health problems that are the final cause of death.

Hmm, this and the fact we've discussed John Ringo reminds me of a certain plot device in 'Live Free or Die.' Would-be alien overlords find humanity useful but want to lower the population to a manageable level, so they create a plague that only kills people dumb enough to leave it untreated. And it had another aspect that made me think Ringo was pulling a Vox and trolling SJWs...

Anonymous Forrest Bishop April 30, 2015 11:01 PM  

Count their own term- Social Justice Warrior- as one lie. Each individual word is then three more lies, for a total of four lies in their own self-descriptor. Any two of these words together are also lies. There are three such combinations- Social Justice, Social Warrior, and Justice Warrior. 4 + 3 =7, for a total of seven lies in a single descriptor.-FB

There's a certain beauty to the description when you put it that way. SJWs always lie.-SirHamster

Hmm, I see what you mean. I've considered writing a book, titled "The Structure of Lies" or something.
This one is especially simple (disregarding permutations of the gerunds) and can be mapped as a Venn diagram, the union, {U}, of {A}, {B}, {C}. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram#/media/File:Venn_diagram_gr_la_ru.svg That simplicity, symmetry, and form is probably where the "certain beauty" comes from.
Each of the seven possible convex hulls represents one of the seven lies, with SJW itself in the center. That could be the basis of a logo for them, maybe also riffing on the Biohazard symbol. The negative space, Not{U}, could represent all their lies of omission, which of course extend to infinity.

Anonymous Donn May 01, 2015 1:00 AM  

Nate unless you are into harem, bdsm type stuff then Johnny Ringo's forays in that direction are distracting from the story. I was not speaking about any other author, genre, or set of stories.

Do I have to be specific about every damn thing?

The question was where to start with Ringo. My answer was to avoid his harem, kinky sex stuff.

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