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Thursday, April 30, 2015

Moderates gonna moderate

You can always trust a right-wing moderate to shoot at a potential ally:
Starting three years ago, Larry Correia, successful science fiction writer, decided to test his suspicion that the Hugo Awards of the World Science Fiction Society were increasingly being awarded through the action of a small group, and increasingly reflect the tastes of that small group rather than a more general population of science fiction readers.

There were many ideas what the reason could be: a desire by the active voters to reward more “literary” work. An ideological bias toward “liberal” writers and themes — which seemed to be more plausible after attacks on more “conservative” writers like Correia, attacks on the movie Ender’s Game because the author of the original novel, Orson Scott Card, is opposed to same-sex marriage, and the expulsion of Vox Day from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, arguably in violation of their own bylaws, for having offensive views on race and sexual roles.

(Just for full disclosure: Scott Card has been a personal friend for something like 30 years, and along with Ray Bradbury was the first to suggest maybe I actually could do this writing thing. Sarah Hoyt, who is also involved in Sad Puppies, is a close friend and as most PJ Media readers know, my partner in the Book Plug Friday column. Larry Correia is a Facebook friend who I’ve never met personally. And I think Vox Day is an obnoxious and unlikeable dolt, as I’ve said in these pages in the past.)

Over the years, I’ve observed two things about people. First, people always do what they find most rewarding; and second, every human institution optimizes its behavior to maximize rewards — and while money isn’t everything, when you’re looking for what’s rewarding it’s the way to bet. Who stands to get a monetary benefit from the direction the Hugo awards have taken?

Now, at that point, we have to go back and reference something Vox Day — who, let me remind you, I think is an obnoxious and unlikable dolt — published. If we look back at the last several years, there is a surprising regularity to be seen: the same people are nominated over and over again for several of the down-list awards, like Best Editor; those people are all associated more or less closely with one publisher, Tor Books; and much of the most vehement objection has been from authors and others directly connected to Tor Books. The number of votes that decide the election is very small — tens of votes.
Wait, Charlie, I'm not entirely sure on your position on Vox Day. Could you repeat it?

Translation: I DISAVOW VOX DAY, I DISAVOW AND DENOUNCE VOX DAY, I DISAVOWANDDENOUNCEANDDONOTLIKEVOXDAY! (please, for the love of all that is good and holy, don't hit me!)

They do not like me, wet or dry
They do not like me, low or high
They do not like me, dry or wet
Because they are so moderate

They do not like me here or there
They do not like me anywhere
They do not like me on the Net
Because they are so moderate

If only I would be more nice
And pour out sugar in place of spice
Then it would all be duly meet
We'd march off to our brave defeat

They do not like me when we win
They do not like me for my sin
They do not like me as a threat
Because they are so moderate

Say this for Charlie, at least he's not afraid to go show:
William Strunk, Jr. ‏@cdrusnret
you say you referred to @voxday as a dolt in the past, but your link doesn't appear germane?

Vox Day ‏@voxday
That's just his way of putting up his hands and saying "please don't hit me!"

Charlie Martin ‏@chasrmarti
Vox, let's just cut to the chase. You wave your hands and scream, I say "fuck off", we go on with our day.

Vox Day ‏@voxday
Maybe if you just denounce me once more, the SJWs will finally love you for who you are, White Buddha.

Labels:

162 Comments:

Blogger Underwater Operative April 30, 2015 9:37 AM  

It's so pathetic watching these people wave the flag of moderation and disavowing the ELoE. It's like they believe it's some kind of magical ward that will protect them from the Witch Hunters!

Get it through your thick skulls moderates; they will come for you regardless of your disavowing of the badthinkers!

Blogger AmyJ April 30, 2015 9:38 AM  

I'm reminded of the animosity towards John Adams in 1776.

"Where if I'm the one to do it
They'll run their quill pens through it
I'm obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?"

Anonymous Nah April 30, 2015 9:38 AM  

"Over the years, I’ve observed two things about people. First, people always do what they find most rewarding"

Banal, trite, and untrue.

If Vox wanted "reward" he would have rabbited up and joined the SJW team.

Anonymous ? April 30, 2015 9:40 AM  

Who the hell is Charlie Martin and why should we care what he thinks?

Never heard of the doughy putz.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 30, 2015 9:42 AM  

Sometimes the simplest explanation is true: he just really doesn't like you. It's not like it wouldn't be unheard of.

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 9:42 AM  

From his first blog post disavowing vox:

Of course, I’m pretty much out of the closet about being “conservative” in the peculiar American meaning of the word, where a radical egalitarian, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-free speech, pro-porn, mind your own damn business, yes we need to pay attention to what happens in the Middle East and Ukraine because we’d rather fight there than here anti-fascist Buddhist is “conservative” while an aristocratic elite dedicated to centralized control by a chosen few is “liberal.”

Anonymous Tom April 30, 2015 9:42 AM  

Good golly, the comments on that article darn near exploded with overt minion activity. I'm not even sure if all the people taking it to task are actual minions or if the idea is just out there now that you don't turn on your ideological allies.

It makes one wonder if it might not be possible to actually turn the tide and sweep the SJW idiots from the field...

On a tangential but related note, can anybody explain to me the Russian revolution that put the Communists in charge in terms of sociosexual roles and behaviors?

How did a herd of rabbits take out the monarchy there? Were there wolves at the head of the rabbit columns? Did the monarchy fail in some important way that made them so vulnerable to lagomorphic attack?

I mean, I understand how we've gotten ourselves into our current cultural morass by sitting on our conservative hands and not standing up to the wretched evils as they brick by brick built their walls. But how did the rabbits when an out and out violent confrontation when they seem to wet themselves at the first suggestion of opposition?

Blogger David April 30, 2015 9:44 AM  

An obnoxious and unlikeable dolt. Pretty mild, on the scale in use on the Interwebs.

Abrasive? Not to my liking? An acquaintance of mine whose company I try to avoid?

A person who pokes annoying people just to see them get even more annoyed, i.e., an instigator of conflict?

Or, someone who is willing to take the heat for pointing out facts the Herd is more comfortable ignoring? Willing to give voice to the views that a large group of unjustly marginalized people hold?

Why can't Vox Day be all these things?

Blogger Robert Coble April 30, 2015 9:44 AM  

Perhaps the "dolt" who wrote this should peruse a dictionary:

Dolt: a stupid person.

Vox Day might be many things, but "dolt" ain't one of them! Only a dolt would make that claim.

Ignorance is curable, but stupidity lasts forever!

Anonymous Leenda April 30, 2015 9:45 AM  

You make me gasp (I am a wimpy girl after all) or you make me cry laughing.

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 9:46 AM  

On a tangential but related note, can anybody explain to me the Russian revolution that put the Communists in charge in terms of sociosexual roles and behaviors?

How did a herd of rabbits take out the monarchy there? Were there wolves at the head of the rabbit columns? Did the monarchy fail in some important way that made them so vulnerable to lagomorphic attack?


Not all leftists are SJW, rabbits, or gamma males.

Blogger David April 30, 2015 9:49 AM  

For the RECORD, I'd like to be among the first people to ram "I'm gay, I'm married, of course I have a legal right to ADOPT children in state care" right up the same-sex-marriage clowns' backsides so far they gag.

As with all public policies regarding social issues, advocates never seem to have a CLUE where their idiocy will inevitably lead.

As an adoptee, I think I speak for those of the future to ask, "What were you thinking?"

Anonymous Alexander April 30, 2015 9:52 AM  

Good golly, the comments on that article darn near exploded with overt minion activity. I'm not even sure if all the people taking it to task are actual minions or if the idea is just out there now that you don't turn on your ideological allies.

The lesson that must be drilled into the head of every moderate is that they cannot play the game of shooting their own side and then seeking harbor. We will fight with you or against you depending on which way your gun is aimed. The cowards think that they can pot shot at us, and that way the left won't shoot at them because they are beneficial, and the right won't shoot them because they wear the right's uniform.

No longer.

Blogger buwaya puti April 30, 2015 9:55 AM  

It does not seem like the fellow agreed with your general worldview to begin with, nor does it seem like he is a conservative in most traditional ways. That's not a problem in itself. Politics is addition after all.
My advice is to continue to be successful.
Powerful allies suddenly start to look better, and get the benefit of the doubt.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 30, 2015 9:57 AM  

Consider the lines above and the comedy, silence of the lambs, "people covet what they see."

Moderates or the above quote, dont want Vox, Larry, Wright, etc., to have ANYTHING. Sure they mention they might like Orson or Sarah but I suggest its a lie.

Anonymous Old Man in a Villa April 30, 2015 9:58 AM  

Typical Alinskyite tactics, make it personal and isolate the target.

I have never played a video game, don't like techno music, could care less about scifi, but I know when someone had their finger on the pulse of the living truth. Whatever our host may be like in person is unimportant to me as long as he remains, as he has thus far, committed to pointing out the falsehoods and corruption of the current tyranny and so far, so good.

They lie, all the time and they get caught in it all the time. They don't believe in justice, could care less about being inclusive or tolerant and have so degraded and ruined so many other fields and disciplines that everything in our current culture has the vague flavor of sewerage. If pointing this out daily and giving examples and using himself as the target for their hypocrisy and shameless degeneracy makes him "an obnoxious and unlikeable dolt" then that's the qualities I am looking for in people henceforth.

I live every day of my life in the real world, no theories, no programs, no ideologies. Life or death, health and vitality or morbidity and decay. I know which one I serve and as for me and my family...

I thank you and the countless others who stand up to this pathetic and hollow excuse of a belief system, fashioned from vomit and bile as if it were gold and angel's hair. The sooner it fails, the better for mankind all around.

Blogger Shimshon April 30, 2015 9:59 AM  

Me so moderate.

Blogger buwaya puti April 30, 2015 10:00 AM  

As for how all this came about -
1. Money. The modern intellectual consensus is that of wealthy people. The rich for the most part still set fashion.
2. Universities. Gramsci. Rich people go to fashionable universities and pick up fashions.

Blogger guest April 30, 2015 10:02 AM  

That is a cute poem. And by the way, Vox, if you are hated by your friends, you may just be in some good company.


Jeremiah 20:10

I hear many whispering, “Terror on every side! Denounce him! Let’s denounce him!” All my friends are waiting for me to slip, saying, “Perhaps he will be deceived; then we will prevail over him and take our revenge on him.”

Blogger Krul April 30, 2015 10:03 AM  

Mr Day, dear Mr Day
You're obnoxious and disliked, that cannot be denied,
But this coward feels the need to shoot at his own side!
Really, Mr Martin, have you any pride?

1776



Blogger JartStar April 30, 2015 10:05 AM  

They are SJWs, but the real anger is the disruption of their clique and they know it can't go back to how it was before.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 30, 2015 10:05 AM  

Not all leftists are SJW, rabbits, or gamma males.

One of AC's most common themes is that rabbits are great at exploiting and lying to non-rabbits to get them to do their dirty work. The communist uprising in Russia--as well as the fascist takeovers of Germany and Italy--were rabbits exploiting bad situations and non-rabbits to set up rabbit states that pretended not to be.

It didn't help that the tsar really was an incompetent nincompoop who had run his own country into the ground, of course.

Blogger Bard April 30, 2015 10:05 AM  

What old man said!

Anonymous Dead Kulak April 30, 2015 10:09 AM  

Menshevik: Onward to the revolution brother! I am so happy to have you on my team!

Bolshevik: Yeah, sure. Sounds great. Say, I dropped a coin on the ground over there. Can you kneel down and fetch it for me?

Menshevik: Of course! Anything for you, comrade! Together we are going to make history...

Bolshevik: Yeah, yeah, comrade. Just kneel down and get the coin, OK?

Menshevik: Ah yes, here is the coin. Kneeling down now... like I was saying, I am so happy to have you guys on the team....

-- BANG --

Bolshevik, pocketing his pistol: Oh comrade, you seem to have lost the top of your head!

OpenID mattse001 April 30, 2015 10:10 AM  

Most of the moderates are people from a prior generation. They don't understand how the culture has changed, and still labor under the assumption that we can all get along.
These people are worse than useless.

Anonymous Difster April 30, 2015 10:10 AM  

What Charlie Martin hasn't figured out yet is that, despite his disavowal of VD, he will still get hit (or rather slapped) by the rabbits because he's still not fully in line with the warren.

Word of advice Charlie, pick a side.

Anonymous Tyger April 30, 2015 10:11 AM  

Of course, I’m pretty much out of the closet about being “conservative” in the peculiar American meaning of the word, where a radical egalitarian, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-free speech, pro-porn, mind your own damn business, yes we need to pay attention to what happens in the Middle East and Ukraine because we’d rather fight there than here anti-fascist Buddhist is “conservative” while an aristocratic elite dedicated to centralized control by a chosen few is “liberal.”

Taking bets...

In-the-closet queer?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 30, 2015 10:13 AM  

On a tangential but related note, can anybody explain to me the Russian revolution that put the Communists in charge in terms of sociosexual roles and behaviors?

How did a herd of rabbits take out the monarchy there? Were there wolves at the head of the rabbit columns? Did the monarchy fail in some important way that made them so vulnerable to lagomorphic attack?


The Rabbits are merely the footsoldiers. They are the kids who paid way too much attention in government schools and so they believe the white man is bad, everyone else is good garbage that they were indoctrinated with.

But at the top, there are always Alphas, no matter what ideology you are analyzing. This is because the top leaders always have ambition, something that is natural to an Alpha.

Anonymous SumDood April 30, 2015 10:15 AM  

Someone once described America as having 2 political parties:

The Evil party (Democrats, who hate everything America stands for), and the Stupid party (Republicans, who get bullied and mugged by Democrats repeatedly because they are gullible and undisciplined).

Upchuck Martin isn't a "moderate". He is a Democrat-enabler. He launches more attacks against his own side than against his alleged opponents.

According to Upchuck, VD is all kinds of bad, but he somehow forgets to call out the SFWA pedophile contingent on their behavior, or the hatemonger SJW clowns like N.K. Jemimason for their hate speech.

Just look at his picture. That is the face of a man who begs for sex and gets ignored.

Anonymous Maria Hatchback April 30, 2015 10:15 AM  

So he admits to being a radical egalitarian, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, foreign interventionist, and considers that "conservative"?

Mmmmmkay.

Anonymous Alexander April 30, 2015 10:18 AM  

Most of the moderates are people from a prior generation. They don't understand how the culture has changed, and still labor under the assumption that we can all get along.
These people are worse than useless.


These would be the people on who's watch the churches, Hollywood, and every single University were lost. Where abortion became acceptable and promoted. Where, even in the face of a fear of an AIDS epidemic that would mutate to ravage mainstream America, did fuck all...

If that's the moderates of the 'prior generation' who don't see that the rules have changed and we can all get along, then they're actively the enemy, or so impressively stupid that there's no sense trying to win them over.

Anonymous Ashterah April 30, 2015 10:19 AM  

Mother of God, you are just their evil doppelganger, aren't you? (I know doppelganger isn't really what I mean, but I can't figure out what it is precisely they are tagging you as. I really want to say you are the deus ex machina, come to make their plot whole, but that's not an appropriate metaphor, either. Meh)

When people keep doing this sort of thing it makes me wonder why. Because more often than not, this sort of thing tells me they are the ones full of shit.

Anonymous Ha April 30, 2015 10:22 AM  

So he admits to being a radical egalitarian, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, foreign interventionist, and considers that "conservative"?

So, a typical National Review reader then...

Blogger buwaya puti April 30, 2015 10:24 AM  

The Bolsheviks weren't "rabbits".
There were indeed fashionable " rabbits" in old Russia, but they all seem to have found out the difference between their fashionable fantasies and Bolshevik reality the hard way. The saddest case probably was Gorky. He came up the really hard way (his school of hard knocks probably trumped Jack London). Still, he ended up a silly SJW. Betrayed of course, as they all were.
Very highly recommended - Orlando Figes, "A Peoples Tragedy" and "Natasha's Dance".

Blogger Krul April 30, 2015 10:25 AM  

"an obnoxious and unlikeable dolt"

Isn't it odd, how redundant Mr Martin is with that particular phrase? He can't just say "I don't like him" or "he's a jerk" or whatever, and he can't make the point just once. No, he has to say those exact words in that order over and over again, like a magic spell.

I noticed this before in John Scalzi, who used phrases like "RSHD" (spelled out) and "adorable little mancrush" verbatim over and over again in a single post. I think I've seen others do this as well, though none come to mind. It's a strange tick that I have yet to explain.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 30, 2015 10:25 AM  

"Over the years, I’ve observed two things about people. First, people always do what they find most rewarding"

My guess is that the author of that quote has never heard of the word duty.

The remark is true for many a people. They are high time preference and one of the main reasons why society is going the proverbial drain.

Which group, puppies (sad,rabid,tacos) or SJW, represent the pursuance of rewards in a more immediate time?

Anonymous anonymous coward April 30, 2015 10:31 AM  

On a tangential but related note, can anybody explain to me the Russian revolution that put the Communists in charge in terms of sociosexual roles and behaviors?

How did a herd of rabbits take out the monarchy there?

The Bolsheviks certainly weren't rabbits and weren't even liberals.

There are lots of myths about the Russian Civil War, and one of the most pervasive ones is that it was against liberal socialist 'reds' and monarchist 'whites'.

In reality, the 'whites' were the liberal socialists. The Bolshevik 'reds' were the more conservative technocrat party. Their attachment to Marxism was only utilitarian; Marxism was considered the more scientific and useful theory at the time.

Think of the current Chinese CPC; the 'reds' during the Russian Civil War were very similar.

Blogger bob k. mando April 30, 2015 10:32 AM  

Tyger April 30, 2015 10:11 AM
Taking bets... In-the-closet queer?



queer or not, he's certainly an entryist.

Anonymous Thobby April 30, 2015 10:32 AM  

Would they like you in the ton?
Would they like you on "Salon"?

Anonymous Stilicho April 30, 2015 10:36 AM  

Right on cue, Puppinette proposes Hugo EBT cards:

Mary Robinette Kowal had a good idea for this: provide free Supporting Memberships, awarded randomly among all applicants. This ensures that no small group can dominate the awards with only a few votes.

It seems like such a good idea that it ought to be formalized for the future. The Hugo Voter Project is a new effort to build on this idea, and provide a continuing source for randomly-awarded “scholarships.” The details are still a little unsettled, but the basics are these:

The scholarships themselves are awarded using a transparent and verifiable random process.
The applications for the scholarships don’t include any ideologically identifiable information — just what’s needed to actually provide the membership.
The funds collected are 100 percent disbursed as memberships or to benefit the Worldcon. Internet economics make it feasible to do the administration, at least this year, on an out-of-pocket basis.
If by any chance the amount of funding exceeds the number of people who apply for scholarships — which seems unlikely — then the funds will roll over for next year or be donated to the current Con Committee. In no case will any contributed funds go to anything but memberships or the Con Committee.


As if anyone would trust SJW's to give out memberships without considering the politics of the recipients. They would at least find a way to slip a few shibboleths in there... you know, those dog whistles they're always whining about.

Anonymous Matthew Walker April 30, 2015 10:37 AM  

To a moderate, "principle" is when they continue to serve the left even after they've learned that the left will never hate them any less for it.

Blogger Charlie Martin April 30, 2015 10:39 AM  

The comparison to John Adams in _1776_ is extremely apposite. And remember what the outcome of the song is? Everyone agrees that if they want to achieve the desired result, they'd better make sure it's not Adams who proposes it.

Of course, it depends on what the desired result is....

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 10:39 AM  

Isn't it odd, how redundant Mr Martin is with that particular phrase? He can't just say "I don't like him" or "he's a jerk" or whatever, and he can't make the point just once. No, he has to say those exact words in that order over and over again, like a magic spell.

I noticed this before in John Scalzi, who used phrases like "RSHD" (spelled out) and "adorable little mancrush" verbatim over and over again in a single post. I think I've seen others do this as well, though none come to mind. It's a strange tick that I have yet to explain.


No, I don't think it's the same phenomenon. Scalzi primarily wants to decrease Vox's status. But that's not the feeling I get from this article. I get two things. First, he genuinely doesn't like Vox as a person. Which I can easily understand. But he also thinks he has said some things that are important and relevant to his article, and which no other person of less triggering nature has unfortunately said. So, I read it like this:

Vox has said --- AND I KNOW THAT NAME IS TRIGGERING! I agree with your reasons to be triggered, dear reader. But just bear with me, ok? Don't leave a hundred comments pointing the obvious. Just read what he has said, ok? --- thus: ...

And then later:

Vox has also said --- YES YES YES, TRIGGERING! I'm sorry, dear reader, but I had no choice. Just, do it again. For me. Please. --- thus: ...

-----------

In other words, he is trying to get the reader to step outside his immediate emotional reaction and look at the facts. I know the impulse. I've tried it in the past.

Only, it doesn't work. But you can only learn that from experience.

Anonymous Pete April 30, 2015 10:39 AM  

Don't ever give a moderate Solomon's Dilemma: he's happier slicing the baby in half to appear fair than taking a side.

Anonymous anon123 April 30, 2015 10:40 AM  

PJ is a little too neo for my liking.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 10:43 AM  

There is no such thing as a moderate conservative. There are only liberals pretending to be conservatives.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 30, 2015 10:44 AM  

I have found many libertarians as well as writers at places like PJ Media have the foolish idea that allowing sexual deviants to have what they claim to want is sufficient and good. They fail to acknowledge that letting them have that then leads to them demanding we embrace their choices, not just allow them.

Having deviancy shoved down my throat is a problem. It is why so many Republicans have lost when they should have won. They cater to the foolishness and end up satisfying neither the deviants nor the supports of truly focusing on a productive life.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 30, 2015 10:47 AM  

Liberalism wouldn't make it a year without conservatives like that. They are it's support to make it look intellectual when in fact it's lies and verbal shit

Anonymous zen0 April 30, 2015 10:47 AM  

Rabid Puppies: The Musical

Blogger Guitar Man April 30, 2015 10:49 AM  

I have no idea who Charlie Martin is, but found his about description on PJMedia:

Charlie Martin writes on science, health, culture and technology for PJ Media. Follow his 13 week diet and exercise experiment on Facebook and at PJ Lifestyle

Look at his profile picture. That's not the face of a man who's diet advice I would follow.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 10:54 AM  

I wouldn't be ready just yet to take as negative a view of this person as the general consensus here. Another explanation is that this is just a person who has spent most of his life in company quite similar to himself. The overwhelming majority of his social interactions are pleasant, and hostile situations are seen as a temporary and unpleasant necessity of life, that should be resolved as quickly as possible.

Vox, on the other hand, comes from an opposite social environment, where hostility and conflict can arise anytime, anywhere, and the thing to do is to learn to be better at it than the enemy.

So, Vox's behavior makes zero sense to the first kind of person. In all opportunities where he thinks the situation should be de-escalated, to return back to that pleasant positivity, Vox escalates it. And the quite understandable, simplistic explanation he gives himself, is that Vox is just a disagreeable and cantankerous person.

I get the same feeling from Torgersen too.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 10:58 AM  

I don't want to write off these people TOO badly because while Vox is the right man for war, these people are the right people to rebuild society into a pleasant environment after the war has actually been won. Not as the aristocracy, but as the peasants. They just need to be pushed aside until victory is secured.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 11:03 AM  

They're like hobbits. They'll build a very enjoyable Shire, but they won't be able to defend it.

Anonymous IsMise April 30, 2015 11:04 AM  

But chubby chubster gotta chub.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales April 30, 2015 11:07 AM  

@anonymous coward

Looks you swallowed a myth yourself. A myth involving rewriting history there, boyo.

Question: what the fuck was conservative, even in the context of Russian politics of the era, about those red fuckos? I really do question if conservatives, even in the context of Russia at the time were for the massive government spending on social programs the reds instituted and if they were for burning down churches that didn't follow the part line like good little goo-steppers, you either ignorant or lying fucko.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 30, 2015 11:08 AM  

Josh, I don't think this guy is exactly running on all cylinders.

Blogger Crowhill April 30, 2015 11:12 AM  

Conservatives need to learn that the culture war is not some inconsequential, small thing. The left wants to reshape human society in a way that is incredibly stupid and dangerous. The left is Hitler, and the right needs allies.

No, Vox, I'm not trying to compare you to Stalin, but the point is that once you realize how dangerous the enemy is, you become more willing to make friends with people who will be on your side.

Part of the problem is that conservatives have bought into the idea that you catch more flies with honey than vinnegar, so we all have to be "nice." From that mindset, Vox (who is not always nice) doesn't seem like an ally.

Such people think that sharp, abrasive, cutting conservatives do more harm than good. But that simply concedes the field to nasty liberals.

Anonymous DNW April 30, 2015 11:13 AM  

" DISAVOW VOX DAY, I DISAVOW AND DENOUNCE VOX DAY, I DISAVOWANDDENOUNCEANDDONOTLIKEVOXDAY! (please, for the love of all that is good and holy, don't hit me!) "

Well worth the price, to some.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWtUVDG5M1w

Anonymous Feh April 30, 2015 11:15 AM  

Question: what the fuck was conservative, even in the context of Russian politics of the era, about those red fuckos? I

Yeah that's a lot of horseshit.

The conservative revolutionaries... say what now?

There was literally nothing about Tsarist Russia that the Reds wanted to conserve.

Anonymous Stilicho April 30, 2015 11:15 AM  

There is no such thing as a moderate conservative. There are only liberals pretending to be conservatives.

Indeed. Actual conservatives scare the cthulhu out of them while they think out-of-the-closet leftists are nice people that just go a little too far.

Litmus test: ask them about Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, the RTKBA, or the Tea Party.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 30, 2015 11:17 AM  

"I'm gay, I'm married, of course I have a legal right to ADOPT children in state care" right up the same-sex-marriage clowns'

If its any consolation they usually adopt crack babies no one else will take unless they have enough money to buy a normal kid instead of a niglet.

So he admits to being a radical egalitarian, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, foreign interventionist, and considers that "conservative"?
In-the-closet queer?
Not in the closet according to GRINDR. How can you mind your own business & be all those other things?

Russian revolution that put the Communists in charge in terms of sociosexual roles and behaviors?

They were easily defeated & exiled, but came back with lots of gold from a certain tribe to win.

"Over the years, I’ve observed two things about people. First, people always do what they find most rewarding"

Many just seek to avoid conflict.

catch more flies with honey than vinnegar You kill more rats with poison than honey.

OpenID pancakeloach April 30, 2015 11:17 AM  

PJ Media?

Ahahahahahahaha! *wipes tear* Hahahahahahahaha.

You know, I used to read PJM and NR. Then it became clear to me that both those outlets were for Democrat Lite folks happy to dwell in their very own rabbit warren, not conservatives. I can't even bring myself to read PJM when Sarah Hoyt writes for them, because the website design is so flippin' irritating.

But if a strong minion contingent is going over there and raising the quality of the comment sections, I might have to give the place another chance.

Blogger Rabbi B April 30, 2015 11:18 AM  

"They do not like me when we win . . .[t]hey do not like me for my sin . . . [t]hey do not like me as a threat . . . [b]ecause they are so moderate."


They hate him who reproves in the gate, they abhor him who speaks the truth (Amos 5:10).

People may remain deaf and dumb in the wake of a prophet’s admonitions, however, they cannot ignore and remain callous to a prophet’s existence.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 30, 2015 11:18 AM  

I suppose Mr. Martin is conservative, but only in the sense that he doesn't believe in income equality and wants to preserve the power of big business.

Aside from that he's a radical social liberal. Hardly a "conservative" in any real sense of the word. In Germany he'd be a Free Democrat.

Anonymous Stilicho April 30, 2015 11:26 AM  

Everyone agrees that if they want to achieve the desired result, they'd better make sure it's not Adams who proposes it.

[laughs] and the mice agreed to bell the cat...

Being "nice" to SJW's is how SF/F got into this mess. To the SJW, being "nice" means you are either a fellow traveler or a useful idiot and they're adept at operating in that milieu. Open confrontation frightens and confuses them and they react to truth the way a vampire reacts to sunlight... for similar reasons.

Blogger Corvinus April 30, 2015 11:27 AM  

On a tangential but related note, can anybody explain to me the Russian revolution that put the Communists in charge in terms of sociosexual roles and behaviors?

How did a herd of rabbits take out the monarchy there? Were there wolves at the head of the rabbit columns? Did the monarchy fail in some important way that made them so vulnerable to lagomorphic attack?


Those atheists of Jewish background in the Bolsheviks and Communist party were wolves, and the ethnic Russians in it or enabling it were rabbits. Ethnic Russian wolves were exterminated.

Anonymous Stephen J. April 30, 2015 11:28 AM  

Eh, if he didn't like Vox a year ago (well before the Rabid Puppies success) and was willing to admit it both then and now, at least he's being consistent.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 30, 2015 11:32 AM  

"To a moderate, "principle" is when they continue to serve the left even after they've learned that the left will never hate them any less for it."

This reminded me of Joseph Sobran:

“If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist.”


Anonymous Discard April 30, 2015 11:33 AM  

There's a fairly recent book called, I believe, "Why Evolution is True". In it, the author casually mentions as a fact that some races are smarter than others, in a paragraph praising the great paleontologist Steve J. Gould and his "excellent book" The Mismeasure of Man. This is just camouflage, a white rabbit in a snowy forest.
So it is with the moderate, hesitant to join the right side for fear of the wrong side.

Blogger IM2L844 April 30, 2015 11:34 AM  

Who's going to set up a GoFundMe scholarship fund, a la Mary Robinette Kowal's efforts, for those less fortunate ELoE minions to be able to vote in subsequent Hugo seasons? There are probably a few of us who would donate a few bucks here and there to such a worthy endeavor.

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 11:35 AM  

these people are the right people to rebuild society into a pleasant environment after the war has actually been won. Not as the aristocracy, but as the peasants.

You guys really do see yourself as the future aristocracy, no?

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 11:37 AM  

I don't, myself. I dislike conflict, and I'm more like this writer than like Vox. Only, I'm analytical enough to understand that conflict is what we have, and pretending otherwise would just mean more of it.

Blogger Danby April 30, 2015 11:40 AM  

@BigGaySteve
"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. You kill more rats with poison than honey."

I'm definitely stealing that.

If only I would be more nice
And pour out sugar in place of spice
Then it would all be duly meet
We'd march off to our brave defeat


Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the platform of the Republican Party!

Blogger John Wright April 30, 2015 11:41 AM  

Mr Martin is (or claims to be) a Buddhist, while at the same time is (or claims to be) pro-abortion and pro-sodomy.

Those of you familiar with the Noble Eightfold Path will immediately recognize that Right Works (samma-ajiva) means that the enlightened do not engage in trades which, either directly or indirectly, result in harm for other living beings. This means no prenatal murder. Duh.

Right Conduct (samma-kammanta) means the enlightened are chaste and abstain from sensual misconduct. This means no sodomy, no sodomite unions sanctified as marriage, no unnatural sexual acts at all. The enlightened do not even lust after women crowned by the flowers of another man, that is, unwed girlfriends of another.

My father in law was a real Buddhist, of the Renzai Zen school, so I have seen Buddhism up close. It is a manly and fierce discipline, not meant for wimps. Buddhism seeks to tame the illusions of the world, and the lusts of the flesh which are the daughters of the lord of illusion.

Real Buddhists mean business: they are as badass as Jesuits or Dominican, savvy?

Mr Martin, I assume from his comment here, cannot be a real Buddhist. I yield to the unworthy suspicion -- which I will repudiate should the facts become known and contradict me -- that we are dealing with a squishy American type of Buddhist, what I call McBuddhism.

McBuddhism stands to real Buddhism as McDonalds paddies stand to real hamburgers, if you take my meaning: bland, preprocessed, nonthreatening.

The McBuddhist wants the spiritualism of religion without the stress and bother of a moral code or a call to higher discipline.

Far off oriental religions can fill that role nicely because they have no magisterium, and so anyone can make up whatever bullshit he wants and call it Buddhism; and most folk in the West don't know even the basics of what Buddhism teaches.

Blogger YIH April 30, 2015 11:41 AM  

Josh:
Of course, I’m pretty much out of the closet about being “conservative” in the peculiar American meaning of the word, where a radical egalitarian, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-free speech, pro-porn, mind your own damn business, yes we need to pay attention to what happens in the Middle East and Ukraine because we’d rather fight there than here anti-fascist Buddhist is “conservative” while an aristocratic elite dedicated to centralized control by a chosen few is “liberal.”
IMHO, that's the definition of neo-con[artist].
It's why I don't care for the term ''conservative'' anymore. Like the word ''organic'' on food products, it's a marketing buzzword, nothing more.

Blogger Nabu the Scribe April 30, 2015 11:41 AM  

LOVE the Suessing!

Blogger Russell April 30, 2015 11:42 AM  

I don't which has more salt, moderate tears or SJWs?

Either way, the Salt must flow!

Blogger ajw308 April 30, 2015 11:47 AM  

Get it through your thick skulls moderates; they will come for you regardless of your disavowing of the badthinkers!
Hell UO, they'll come for them first. That's what always surprises them.

Anonymous AlteredFate April 30, 2015 11:48 AM  

Like Vox has said before, it's better to be openly attacked by confirmed enemies than repeatedly betrayed by false friends. From the comments over there it looks like Charlie Martin may need to rethink attacking this particular 'false friend' in the future.

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 11:49 AM  

that we are dealing with a squishy American type of Buddhist, what I call McBuddhism.

In defense of McBuddhism, they did lead to the invention of yoga pants.

Anonymous totenhenchen April 30, 2015 11:49 AM  

Obnoxious and unlikable are subjective judgements. Vox is honest, and that's unforgivable.

Blogger Danby April 30, 2015 11:53 AM  

"In defense of McBuddhism, they did lead to the invention of yoga pants."

That's hardly to their credit. About one girl in 20 who wears yoga pants looks non-revolting in them.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 11:54 AM  

Walter Martin has said:

"People who walk around in the middle of war, acting as if there is no war, are called casualties"

Anonymous Jack Amok April 30, 2015 12:02 PM  

Being "nice" to SJW's is how SF/F got into this mess. To the SJW, being "nice" means you are either a fellow traveler or a useful idiot and they're adept at operating in that milieu.

Yep. They rely on their opponents allowing SJWs to pick when the conflict is "nice" and when it is "nasty." The SJWs go for "nice" when they are at a disadvantage, and "nasty" any time they think they can knife someone. Or, since someone mentioned the Bolshies*, stick an ice pick in their skull.

* hint: Lenin and Stalin weren't rabbits. They were sociopaths.

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 12:03 PM  

Mr Martin is (or claims to be) a Buddhist, while at the same time is (or claims to be) pro-abortion and pro-sodomy.

This is who you want to be "rebuilding society into a pleasant environment", Markku?

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 12:04 PM  

That's hardly to their credit. About one girl in 20 who wears yoga pants looks non-revolting in them.

You can't blame them for that. That would be like blaming DUIs on Belgian monks.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 12:06 PM  

This is who you want to be "rebuilding society into a pleasant environment", Markku?

Yes, I love dead babies. The more dead babies the better. Sodomy too.

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 12:11 PM  

Yes, I love dead babies. The more dead babies the better. Sodomy too.

HEY GUYS I THINK THIS MIGHT BE SARCASM

Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 12:12 PM  

Charlie Martin is not necessarily a bad person, but definitely not someone I want watching my back. He's one of those unfortunates who by nature lean way to the left but intellectually know that it's all bullshit that will end horribly, and isn't a sociopath who doesn't care as long as he can use it to his advantage.

Odds are that in the end he'll rationalize his way into ignoring reality. I'm sure Salon will be glad to have him, at least until the 'former conservative who found the light' schtick wears out. Then, they'll find an excuse to unperson him. Having a conscience is a liability on the left.

I've seen this played out way too many times. Someone gets mugged by reality, and sees the world is not what they thought it was. This creates dissonance between what IS and what SHOULD BE. Most of the time, they eventually get rid of that dissonance by embracing a warm lie instead of the cold truth. It's hard to overcome your nature. It's even harder if you're raised to believe nothing is work sacrificing for.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 12:14 PM  

Or, I might have referred to this aspect of it:

Another explanation is that this is just a person who has spent most of his life in company quite similar to himself. The overwhelming majority of his social interactions are pleasant, and hostile situations are seen as a temporary and unpleasant necessity of life, that should be resolved as quickly as possible. ... So, Vox's behavior makes zero sense to the first kind of person. In all opportunities where he thinks the situation should be de-escalated, to return back to that pleasant positivity, Vox escalates it.

Can't remember just now. Too tired from all the sodomy and killing babies.

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 12:16 PM  

Civilization 2.0 is going to be a freakshow.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

Blogger WATYF April 30, 2015 12:16 PM  

An obnoxious and unlikeable dolt. Pretty mild, on the scale in use on the Interwebs.

heh.... this was my first thought as well. I can see "obnoxious" and "unlikeable" used as a reasonable description for Vox, even by people who agree with him on many topics and aren't trying to distance themselves from his views. Some people just don't like those who purposefully stir up controversy or who "respond in kind" to attacks. Of course, I'd argue that most controversial internet personas are "obnoxious" at the very least, if not unlikeable.

WATYF

Blogger Double E April 30, 2015 12:23 PM  

silly moderates always make me think of this line from "They Live":

"I've walked a white line my entire life, I'm not about to screw that up."

"The white line's in the middle of the road - that's the worst place to drive."

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 12:26 PM  

HEY GUYS I THINK THIS MIGHT BE SARCASM

I see it more as being logically consistent. A commendable attribute.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 12:26 PM  

"You guys really do see yourself as the future aristocracy, no? "

Not myself. My children and grandchildren though. Without question. To an extent I already am.

Anonymous DeepThought April 30, 2015 12:28 PM  

@Josh - Most people forget the veterans of previous wars turned on the Monarchy. Once the Communists won, the useful fools were rounded up and killed and gun ownership was made illegal.

Russia was broke. the government had spent beyond their means which left nothing for the people or improvements.

Blogger Danby April 30, 2015 12:30 PM  

" I can see "obnoxious" and "unlikeable" used as a reasonable description for Vox, "

THEY DEMEAN AND DISCREDIT OUT DARK LORD!
'OBNOXIOUS'?
THEY MEAN 'THE TERRIFYING MASTER OF THE DARK ARTS, WHOSE VERY SPITTLE BEARS THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF GENERATIONS, THE GLANCE OF WHOSE BALEFUL EYE MEANS DEATH IN AGONY. 'UNLIKEABLE'?
THEY MEAN 'EVIL AS THE BLACKEST MIDNIGHT IN THE DEEPEST PIT OF THE SEVENTH HELL OF DOOMED R'LYEH'

Blogger Russell April 30, 2015 12:36 PM  

Even Martin's insults are moderate.

Revelation 3:16 comes to mind "So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 12:42 PM  

Not myself. My children and grandchildren though.

Training them to be central bankers?

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 12:45 PM  

You guys really do see yourself as the future aristocracy, no?

I don't want to be the aristocracy, I just want to be the guy who finances them.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 12:47 PM  

I see myself more like clergy, if we have to use established terms. But not with the connotations of a tight separation between laity and clergy.

Anonymous Sensei April 30, 2015 12:51 PM  

White Buddha

Ha... I laughed.

I think people give moderates an unfair rap here. They are just your average "folk," the kind who shake their heads disapprovingly and hurry along nervously when they see an angry protest no matter what it's backing, because that's not "decent" behavior.

Moderates are kind of like the intellectual equivalent of those villagers from Seven Samurai. They just want to be left alone to their own affairs. Under sufficiently dangerous circumstances you can get them to see the necessity of extreme measures, maybe train them to hold a spear and stand their ground for a while, but as soon as possible they'll run back to normality and shun the unrespectable or extreme ideas/people who they actually depend on.

Note that the samurai don't really resent them for this. It's just the nature of humanity.

The issue here is that the internet-going "folk" don't see the nature of the threat, and wouldn't until it was far too late. So they see Vox kind of like how you'd see Vlad Tepes if you didn't believe "all that nonsense" about how the Turks were invading. The fact that Vox sort of embraces that persona just confirms it, to them.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 12:52 PM  

'Training them to be central bankers? "

Look at the drivel this poor generation is given as a math curriculum. Look at what is passing for education.

Now contrast that with the very real... rigorous... and over all elite education that my kids are getting.

Couple that with contacts and wealth... and what do you have?

Right. You have a recipe for aristocracy.

The word has a negative connotation but never the less it applies. The elite or tomorrow are being homeschooled today.

Anonymous anonymous coward April 30, 2015 12:54 PM  

Question: what the fuck was conservative, even in the context of Russian politics of the era, about those red fuckos?
Their nationalism.

I really do question if conservatives, even in the context of Russia at the time were for the massive government spending on social programs the reds instituted and if they were for burning down churches that didn't follow the part line like good little goo-steppers, you either ignorant or lying fucko.
As far as politics go, Russia is an Asian county. 'Massive government spending' is an ancient tradition in Asia that goes back to time immemorial. The Czarist government was just as much in love with government spending. (And with the burning of churches too, but that's stickier topic and we're getting into taboo territory now.)

There was literally nothing about Tsarist Russia that the Reds wanted to conserve.
They wanted to conserve the Russian Empire, with its military and civil servant tradition. They were also very fond of Orthodox Christian morality and ethics. (The Church itself and Christian theology not so much.)

P.S. I'm ethnically Russian and living in Russia. Not that this makes my statements authoritative, but I probably have more context on the issue that you.

Anonymous Anonymous April 30, 2015 12:55 PM  

Guitar Man April 30, 2015 10:49 AM
-snip-
Look at his profile picture. That's not the face of a man who's diet advice I would follow.


Reminds me of a younger GRRM.

harry12

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 1:01 PM  

Now contrast that with the very real... rigorous... and over all elite education that my kids are getting.

Couple that with contacts and wealth... and what do you have?


The primary targets of the next Marxist purge?


Blogger Guitar Man April 30, 2015 1:02 PM  

The word has a negative connotation but never the less it applies. The elite or tomorrow are being homeschooled today.

I commonly state that my children will be employing the kids who go through public and private schools.

It doesn't even take much to give a homeschool kid an advantage over the private and public schoolers.

Blogger WATYF April 30, 2015 1:04 PM  

Even Martin's insults are moderate.

haha... ZING!

WATYF

Anonymous Harsh April 30, 2015 1:05 PM  

Are we sure Martin isn't an SJW? He makes the common SJW move of calling someone out and then telling them to go away when they respond. What a fucking coward.

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 1:05 PM  

Don't get me wrong. Education, wealth and contacts are great and all.

But don't imagine for a minute that it guarantees you a place in the aristocracy.

Anonymous anonymous coward April 30, 2015 1:08 PM  

Russia was broke. the government had spent beyond their means which left nothing for the people or improvements.

No, this isn't true. The Czarist government failed because it completely failed on human development and infrastructure while selling out resources cheaply to foreign 'concessions' and foreign capital. Basically, treating Russia as if it was an African colony.

This is the real reason people turned on the monarchy.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 30, 2015 1:09 PM  

"You guys really do see yourself as the future aristocracy, no?"

I'm hoping for martyred war hero, with my picture on coins and parents for generations telling their children (much exaggerated) tales of my heroic ubber ninja badassery....

Blogger Banshee April 30, 2015 1:09 PM  

I think there's a lot of difference between Martin saying, "I disavow Vox Day" and "I really don't like Vox Day or his political positions, but that doesn't mean his raw data is wrong."

I will grant you that "dolt" is an unwarranted insult. You're not a stupid man. Also, it should ideally be beside the point in political argument whether one likes the other person or not, except maybe as data on their political effectiveness and character.

But if your persona is that of a gadfly, you are not prioritizing likeability or people agreeing with you. So I think you should probably read Charlie Martin at face value on this, just as I try to read you at face value on what you say. (Since I don't know either of you in person, why read anything into anything?)

The sad thing is that it will probably gain Martin no clarity of understanding from the other side; to say that he referenced your work or liked SP will be more than enough to classify him as Badthink. Meanwhile, you missed a chance to cackle madly at how even those who dislike you like your work.

Obviously, Puppy supporters need to do something gleeful and berzerk to help everyone get that Happy Warrior spirit back.

Anonymous patrick kelly April 30, 2015 1:13 PM  

@AC:

"They were also very fond of Orthodox Christian morality and ethics. (The Church itself and Christian theology not so much.)"

Yeah, a case study of what eventually happens when you remove Christ from morality and ethics.

"P.S. I'm ethnically Russian and living in Russia. Not that this makes my statements authoritative, but I probably have more context on the issue that you."

Don't worry, that won't stop anyone from pontificating about the Russia they believe in as opposed to the one you live in. ;-)

Anonymous anonymous coward April 30, 2015 1:16 PM  

Yeah, a case study of what eventually happens when you remove Christ from morality and ethics.

I agree. All in all, the Bolsheviks weren't so much evil as disgustingly incompetent due to hubris.

Blogger beerme April 30, 2015 1:20 PM  

Taking diet advice from Charlie Martin seems about as wise as taking dating advice from John Scalzi.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 30, 2015 1:28 PM  

Don't worry, that won't stop anyone from pontificating about the Russia they believe in as opposed to the one you live in. ;-)

Not sure why either is relevant. Unless someone suggests that anonymous coward is about 120 years old and he actually lived through it as a person old enough to percieve what was happening, his perspective on the Russian Revolution isn't likely to be any better than anyone else's.

Actually, being an ethnic Russian in Russia means you're more likely to have been exposed to propaganda about the Revolution than an outsider, anyway. Look at how most Americans regard the War of Southern Independence.

Blogger Student in Blue April 30, 2015 1:33 PM  

@Harsh
Are we sure Martin isn't an SJW? He makes the common SJW move of calling someone out and then telling them to go away when they respond. What a fucking coward.

I'd more liken it to a gamma trait or a low delta trait rather than a specifically SJW trait. The SJWs just do it on a grand level because they're all delusional.

Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 1:35 PM  

Heh. Charlie Martin is doubling down in the comments at PJ. It's not going well for him. When your comments on your own article are being reported as abusive (justifiably!), it's time to step back, take a deep breath, and try to figure out where you went wrong. So far, he's doing a good impression of the Vox Day that lives in his head.

Anonymous Athor Pel April 30, 2015 1:44 PM  

" Porky April 30, 2015 12:16 PM
Civilization 2.0 is going to be a freakshow.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
"



Sounds like you don't want to leave Babylon.

Anonymous anonymous coward April 30, 2015 1:45 PM  

Actually, being an ethnic Russian in Russia means you're more likely to have been exposed to propaganda

Probably true. However, this also means this topic occupies my mind about 100 times more than yours, so at the very least I gave lots of thought to the topic.

Anonymous Steveo April 30, 2015 1:49 PM  

Charlie is so afraid to minion... but he so wants to minion... but what if he minions; what if the minions fail; what if...

When the culture war's over, he'll regale his grandchildren with stories of minioning.

May they know him for his pursuit of perfect tepidity & overall lukewarmness. Yuck.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 30, 2015 1:52 PM  

Look at his profile picture. That's not the face of a man who's diet advice I would follow. Reminds me of a younger GRRM.

Now if you wanted directions to an all you can eat buffet. I wonder if he is BUYSEXUAL also.

Yes, I love dead babies. The more dead babies the better. Sodomy too. HEY GUYS I THINK THIS MIGHT BE SARCASM

It gets harder to tell the difference between sarcasm and SJWs actual positions. Here is an illegal alien who sodomized a 3yo https://www.change.org/p/judge-says-child-rapist-didn-t-mean-to-hurt-the-3-year-old-toddler-he-sodomized don't worry here are STR8 examples. http://www.inquisitr.com/907613/woman-helped-husband-rape-3-year-old-daughter-held-girls-hand-during-assault/
Its not just Moo ham mad that had a small willey.

Blogger Rabbi B April 30, 2015 1:55 PM  

"You guys really do see yourself as the future aristocracy, no?"

Jewstocracy.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 30, 2015 1:56 PM  

Actually, being an ethnic Russian in Russia

AC Are there any gays getting affected by Putin's anti-gay law other than those that have public sex & kiddie fiddlers?

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis April 30, 2015 2:13 PM  

Who is Charlie Martin?

Blogger beerme April 30, 2015 2:29 PM  

"Who is Charlie Martin?"
Scalzi's long lost "conservative" twin

Anonymous Scintan April 30, 2015 2:36 PM  

There is no such thing as a moderate conservative. There are only liberals pretending to be conservatives.

That is not correct.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 30, 2015 2:43 PM  

"Moderate" can mean a lot of different things. Often it means more about their attitude towards politics as a component of their life than it does about describing their actual positions.

In Charlie Martin's case, its that he's actually a liberal with a few conservative opinions on a few issues.

Anonymous Scintan April 30, 2015 2:45 PM  

Over the years, I’ve observed two things about people. First, people always do what they find most rewarding; and second, every human institution optimizes its behavior to maximize rewards — and while money isn’t everything, when you’re looking for what’s rewarding it’s the way to bet. Who stands to get a monetary benefit from the direction the Hugo awards have taken?

I could be a multi-millionaire today if I'd chosen to believe that money was the way to bet. I chose happiness and morality instead.

I'm vastly contented with my choices.

Anonymous Scintan April 30, 2015 2:49 PM  

The lesson that must be drilled into the head of every moderate is that they cannot play the game of shooting their own side and then seeking harbor. We will fight with you or against you depending on which way your gun is aimed. The cowards think that they can pot shot at us, and that way the left won't shoot at them because they are beneficial, and the right won't shoot them because they wear the right's uniform.


a/k/a "Lead, Follow, or get out of the way".

Blogger Vox April 30, 2015 2:50 PM  

So I think you should probably read Charlie Martin at face value on this, just as I try to read you at face value on what you say.

You're missing the point. Martin is doing what moderate conservatives always do, distancing and selling out the radicals. It's epically and obscenely stupid. That's absolutely contra the very successful Reagan strategy, which was "no enemies to the right" approach.

Look at how Brad and Larry refused to disavow me. Look at how John Wright refused. Look at how I refused to disavow Roosh. And see what has happened as a result. To play the "I don't agree with everything X says, but...." is a signal to the Left that they can play divide and conquer with you.

Anonymous Porky April 30, 2015 2:55 PM  

Jewstocracy.

Been there. Done that.

Blogger Rabbi B April 30, 2015 3:18 PM  

"Been there. Done that."

Fun hater.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 3:20 PM  

It gets harder to tell the difference between sarcasm and SJWs actual positions

Porky knows damn well that my position is that homosexual acts are an abomination to God, and abortion is murder.

Anonymous Caedryn April 30, 2015 3:21 PM  

Artists Rendition of Vox Day:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/e/e8/God-Emperor.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111202170238

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 30, 2015 3:44 PM  

Bummer that Charlie Martin is unraveling. All he had to do was be like Vox, objective, calm, reasonable (normal). Martin is odd (abnormal) in that women find him foreign, petty, absurd and emo. No sincere objectivity or rationale.

Either way, rock on gentlemen, as usual the men here clean up, clarify and explain matters that require coverage!

Blogger Corvinus April 30, 2015 3:59 PM  

Along the lines of squishy moderates like the Republicans, I think the Evil Legion of Evil could get behind Heartiste's basic ideas for a political party:

The Four Planks of a Dissident Party

Anonymous Nikki April 30, 2015 4:03 PM  

It's nice to see the hatred of moderates is the one thing liberals and conservatives seem to agree on universally. Criticized for having views that swing 'left' or 'right' from topic to topic -- what's so wrong having a liberal stance on gay marriage and a conservative stance on gun control that freaks people on both sides out so much? Do we have to think with a broad stroked brush or be 'traitors' no matter what?

Anyway, it'll be fun to watch this political season where again -- once the liberals and conservatives are out of their primaries and their goals turn to 'courting the independents' and 'moderates' how suddenly they become so popular and the backbone of America. Because people who win do so with large support from those moderates they start to actively court once they're done eating their own.

So feel free to deride them - but moderates are a secret force that everyone seems to want on their side. But are mad that they don't have their undying support from start to finish -- isn't this why Blacks/African-Americans are so heavily criticized because they seem to ALWAYS vote Democratic? So be thankful there is a swath of people out there who can't be counted on to just vote liberal and just vote conservative...it'll keep the rest of them on their toes.

As it should be.

Anonymous DT April 30, 2015 4:08 PM  

Bu...buuu...but I denounced MeanBad Vox, his MeanThoughts, and his BadFeels! Wo...won't you let me in your club house now?

Pu...puh...puhleaze?

Blogger Corvinus April 30, 2015 4:10 PM  

isn't this why Blacks/African-Americans are so heavily criticized because they seem to ALWAYS vote Democratic?

Heavily criticized? Hardly. Groids get their asses kissed all the time. Kicked? Hardly ever.

Anonymous RT April 30, 2015 4:15 PM  

@Nikki

Everybody hates moderates because they are fundamentally dishonest. They feign not having strong views on issues so they are necessarily pandered to at election time.

Anonymous Nikki April 30, 2015 4:20 PM  

@RT The moderates I know have very strong views -- but they don't have strong loyalty to a platform of them, you're right. That they are pro-choice doesn't mean they are anti-death penalty for instance. But they are very dedicated in their views, you just can't guess at them at every turn. But if someone tells me they're conservative and are pro-guns and pro-death penalty...I can guess at the rest of their stances with fair accuracy.

@Corvinus Maybe not 'heavily' but I have read more and more criticism of it, also from the Hispanic side as well by members of both communities. (Mostly editorial pieces, naturally.)

Blogger Nate April 30, 2015 4:24 PM  

"That is not correct."

It is correct. Note how this particular "moderate conservative" in fact turned out to be liberal on everything that matters.

Look at that Ben Carson joke. Conservative? He's a fucking gun grabber for crying out loud.

Blogger Corvinus April 30, 2015 4:52 PM  

Everybody hates moderates because they are fundamentally dishonest. They feign not having strong views on issues so they are necessarily pandered to at election time.

If you're a man, you should realize that being a moderate is low-value, and being an "extremist" is high-value.

From this follows the fact that pandering to the moderates to gain votes is basically pandering to the lowest-value males in your society.

Blogger Josh April 30, 2015 4:58 PM  

Along the lines of squishy moderates like the Republicans, I think the Evil Legion of Evil could get behind Heartiste's basic ideas for a political party:

The Four Planks of a Dissident Party


From the link:

Repeat after me:

1. Immigration
2. Oligarchization
3. Surveillance State
4. Return to timeless norms

These are the four digestible, media-ready Dissident Party planks. Get the branding and the message down before delving into the details. This practice helps clarify the mind and gird the spirit.


I don't think it's a very coherent platform.

Furthermore, it looks a lot like fascist and national socialist platforms.

Anonymous ticticboom April 30, 2015 6:36 PM  

Umm, if you actually look at it, it's against 1, 2, and 3, and for 4.

Anonymous p-dawg April 30, 2015 7:32 PM  

Return to timeless norms? You mean slavery, aristocracy, city-states, warlords, pain, suffering, starvation? Uh, no thanks. I'd like to just go back to about 1787, that's all.

Blogger Markku April 30, 2015 8:05 PM  

The post explains it:

4. Traditional norms. Traditional norms with respect to family, religion, masculinity, marriage, race, and cultural/national identity. This is an issue of lesser importance, but I think that many of this country’s problems could be solved through strengthening through bringing back some of these ideas. Traditional American culture is actually fairly moderate by global standards, so a partial return to traditionalism could be beneficial without being repressive.

Anonymous Scintan April 30, 2015 11:13 PM  

It is correct. Note how this particular "moderate conservative" in fact turned out to be liberal on everything that matters.

Look at that Ben Carson joke. Conservative? He's a fucking gun grabber for crying out loud.


It's not correct. Compared to me, both you and Vox are probably "moderate" conservatives. Even if the label doesn't compltely fit the two of you, it would fit most who post here. That's the problem with broad brushing. Until you get to the absolute edge, there's always someone further out. And the absolute edge is where you'll find the batshit crazies.

Anonymous Scintan April 30, 2015 11:21 PM  

It's nice to see the hatred of moderates is the one thing liberals and conservatives seem to agree on universally. Criticized for having views that swing 'left' or 'right' from topic to topic -- what's so wrong having a liberal stance on gay marriage and a conservative stance on gun control that freaks people on both sides out so much? Do we have to think with a broad stroked brush or be 'traitors' no matter what?

There are 4 types of the sort of moderates to which you are referring, because you're really referring to the squishes:

1.) Those who don't have courage enough to be something else.
2.) Those who don't have logic and intelligence enough to be something else.
3,) Those who don't have emotional control enough to be something else.
4,) Those who don't have knowledge enough to be something else.

All 4 are worthy of derision.

Anonymous IsMise April 30, 2015 11:37 PM  

"The McBuddhist wants the spiritualism of religion without the stress and bother of a moral code or a call to higher discipline. "
Neither Shaolin nor Temple Knight.

Anonymous RT April 30, 2015 11:56 PM  

@Nikki I misspoke in my original comment. Moderates do not have strong views. Due to this they are granted power they otherwise would not have, which leads to them being pandered to at election time. Then they vote for whom they believe will win in order to feel less loser-like.

@Corvinus Yes

Anonymous Jack Amok May 01, 2015 1:08 AM  

You're missing the point. Martin is doing what moderate conservatives always do, distancing and selling out the radicals.

The one thing Charlie Martin didn't do was state unequivocally that he and Vox were on the same team. That's what really matters. What if he'd said:

"Orson Scott Card was my mentor. Sarah is my writing partner. Larry is an acquaintance. Vox is obnoxious. But we're all on the same team."

We're all on the same team. That's the oath. You either keep it or you break it. There's no half-measures in that.

Anonymous Dan May 01, 2015 10:10 AM  

Here, a handy excommunication form or cherem that all moderates should use to satisfy liberals. Change Spinoza with Beale, though.

"With the judgment of the angels and with that of the saints, with the consent of God, Blessed be He, and of all this holy congregation, before these sacred Scrolls of the Law, and the six hundred and thirteen precepts which are proscribed therein, we anathematise, cut off, execrate, and curse Baruch de Espinoza with the anathema wherewith Joshua anathematised Jericho, with the curse wherewith Elishah cursed the youths, and with all the curses which are written in the Law: cursed be he by day, and cursed be he by night; cursed be he when he lieth down, and cursed be he when he riseth up; cursed be he when he goeth out, and cursed be he when he cometh in; the Lord will not pardon him; the wrath and fury of the Lord will be kindled against this man, and bring down upon him all the curses which are written in the Book of the Law; and the Lord will destroy his name from under the heavens; and, to his undoing, the Lord will cut him off from all the tribes of Israel, with all the curses of the firmament which are written in the Book of the Law; but ye that cleave unto the Lord your God live all of you this day!"

We ordain that no one may communicate with him verbally or in writing, nor show him any favour, nor stay under the same roof with him, nor be within four cubits of him, nor read anything composed or written by him."

Blogger John Wright May 01, 2015 11:35 AM  

@ Nikki

"what's so wrong having a liberal stance on gay marriage and a conservative stance on gun control that freaks people on both sides out so much? "

It is called Libertarianism, or, in science fiction circles, being a Robert Heinlein fan.

People are always freaked out when they have to think through the logical implications of their axioms. In my view, there are only five entirely logical (four of them are logical but based on a false view of human nature) political philosophies:
1. Catholicism (based on the notion that men are sinners and Christ is sovereign)
2. Classical liberalism, also called Libertarianism (based on the notion that men are sovereign, and are rational economic actors, motivated by self interest)
3. Marxism, also called Socialism or Naziism (based on the notion that men are helpless soldiers in a Darwinian war of survival, motivated by perfect altruism)
4. Confucianism, also called Mandarinism (based on the notion that heaven ordains submission to perfect order, as interpreted by intellectuals.)
5. Nihilism, also called Anarchy (based on the notion that men are God, bound by no law save willpower.)

Anonymous Beloc May 01, 2015 9:50 PM  

Protestants are Nihilists, and heretics.

Blogger Masha K. May 02, 2015 3:01 PM  

Holy crow, why is it so hard for people to understand that we can be allies without being friends? Do soldiers only go into battle with friends? If that's how it has to be, we truly are lost.

Blogger Masha K. May 02, 2015 3:06 PM  

Posting this as a separate comment in case the admin wants to delete. This whole situation kind of reminds me of the Team America scene that discusses the 3 types of people in the world and why we need the…particular kind to win certain battles.

Blogger Kirk Parker May 03, 2015 2:57 AM  

Tom,

"Did the monarchy fail in some important way that made them so vulnerable to lagomorphic attack?"

The House of Romanov was pathetically inbred (literally--haemophilia was a serious problem in the line) and ridiculously weak.

If you read all the historical footnotes in Solzhenitsyn's August 1914, the one theme that comes through most strongly from the extremely-monarchist author is--Dear God, how did we come to be saddled with this weak, pathetic excuse for the defender of Monarchy???

Blogger Kirk Parker May 03, 2015 4:00 AM  

Josh: "In defense of McBuddhism, they did lead to the invention of yoga pants."

Danby: "That's hardly to their credit. About one girl in 20 who wears yoga pants looks non-revolting in them."

Me: Danby--clearly you need to find a better class of young ladies to hang out with!

Blogger Kirk Parker May 03, 2015 4:03 AM  

Marku,

Walter Martin has said:

"People who walk around in the middle of war, acting as if there is no war, are called casualties"

Oy. Rachel Corrie comes immediately to mind.
Marku,

Walter Martin has said:

"People who walk around in the middle of war, acting as if there is no war, are called casualties"

Oy. Rachel Corrie comes immediately to mind.

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