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Monday, April 13, 2015

New reader: where to start?

A new reader wonders where the best place to start reading my fiction is:
I've been enjoying your blog, and wanted to know - what would be the best book of yours for a new reader to start with? I'm a big sci-fi fan, but haven't actually read your fiction yet. If it matters, my tastes are a bit older - Orson Scott Card, William Gibson, Arthur C. Clarke, etc. Terry Brooks and Tolkien when it comes to fantasy. Might be good to have a "new reader" link.
My first instinct is to say QM: AMP for those who lean SF and AMB, followed by ATOB, for those who lean fantasy. But I also think the author is among the least reliable authorities in this regard, so I'll leave it up to the Ilk to sort it out in the comments. If you all can reach a consensus, I'll post it here and create a New Reader link in the sidebar.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume no one thinks that either REBEL MOON or THE RETURN OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION is the optimal starting point.

And on the Sad Puppy front, Mad Genius Dave Freer just asks the question that I did about the Toad of (formerly) Tor, only he asks it about the Guardian as well.
The chances of a ‘hit’ piece, intended to denigrate, on an American populist author with little impact on his British scene, in a publication that tends to Ahrt, are slim. The chance of it happening the very day that the Hugo Nomination shortlist is released, targeting an audience who might possibly go to LonCon, but probably would not have heard of Larry Correia? In other words, to poison minds well before they saw their voter packets…

The chance that this happened purely by accident – about the same as a fully armed nuclear missile turning into a Sperm whale a few seconds before impact.

Let’s get to a second fact. Just the facts. A year later, TNH launched a furious tirade on her blog, ‘Making Light’… attacking the Sad Puppies for sweeping the Hugo Noms. Threatening to bring down retribution for being nominated. Now coming from such a powerful person in Traditional Publishing, and one with… shall we say wide influence (the links are… telling) this is fairly serious bullying. Abuse of power.

But the important thing is WHEN IT HAPPENED.

It happened BEFORE the embargo was lifted.

These facts lead inexorably to a question so simple and so obvious I can’t see how anyone can miss it asking it:

HOW DID DAMIAN WALTER AND TERESA NIELSEN HAYDEN KNOW LARRY AND THE SAD PUPPIES HAD BEEN NOMINATED WHEN IT WAS EMBARGOED?
I think this pair of tweets from 2013 will explain a lot. Notice the connection between David Barnett, John Scalzi, and Damien Walter. And then notice who publishes David Barnett. Still dubious about a quiet circle of conspiracy centered around Tor Books?


Labels: ,

86 Comments:

Anonymous Leonidas April 13, 2015 12:05 PM  

HOW DID DAMIAN WALTER AND TERESA NIELSEN HAYDEN KNOW LARRY AND THE SAD PUPPIES HAD BEEN NOMINATED WHEN IT WAS EMBARGOED?

The answer is pretty simple in retrospect. At the time we all figured they must have had the results leaked to them. But the reality is that with the puppies sweeping or nearly sweeping every field, it was much simpler. NONE of the "chosen nominees" got their pre-announcement phone call. None of them. So by process of elimination, the CHORFs knew that the puppies had to have swept everything.

But it's also definitive proof that there was coordination behind the scenes, even if there was no leak. They all knew who was "supposed" to win, and they panicked when those people didn't win. So much for Martin's claim that nobody actual wields any power behind the scenes. Totally demonlished by the facts on the ground, despite his claim of "proving" that it's not happening.

Anonymous Leonidas April 13, 2015 12:06 PM  

Also, none of us suspected the answer was this simple because none of us actually expected to completely and utterly sweep everything like we did. I expected us to do well this year - certainly better than last year. I didn't expect us to completely trounce them like we did.

Blogger bob k. mando April 13, 2015 12:06 PM  

"... if I'd named him I'd have to get a quote ... "

and there you have it, ladies and gents.

a reporter, describing in detail how to manipulate a story narrative through omission.

Blogger Vox April 13, 2015 12:10 PM  

And, of course, this is iron-clad proof that Tor authors collaborate on journalistic hit pieces.

Anonymous Leonidas April 13, 2015 12:12 PM  

Yes, that too.

I'm actually kind of flabbergasted that they're stupid enough to leave such a horrible trail behind them. As someone else said in another thread somewhere... THESE are the people we let overrun our institutions?

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 13, 2015 12:13 PM  

I'm actually kind of flabbergasted that they're stupid enough to leave such a horrible trail behind them. As someone else said in another thread somewhere... THESE are the people we let overrun our institutions?

Arguably, they were a bit more clever back in the day, and inarguably, we were much more naive. I think they've gotten fat and lazy, and just simply have not expected that anyone would seriously challenge them again, too.

Blogger Douglas Wardell April 13, 2015 12:16 PM  

Of what I've read, I say QM: AMD for sci-fi, AToB for epic fantasy, or The Last Witchking if you want to start with something more bite-size. Any of those would be a great intro.

I think TRotGD is a fine starting point if the reader happens to enjoy reading about monetary policy for fun, but probably not otherwise. :)

Anonymous Steve April 13, 2015 12:17 PM  

Sad news, everyone:

"National daily newspapers in the UK lost half a million in average daily sales over the past year… The Guardian had the largest decline among the quality titles, with sales falling 9.5% to 174,941."

Good job Damien has that successful novelist thing to fall back on... right?

Anonymous JoeyWheels April 13, 2015 12:19 PM  

I was a "new reader" a few short years ago.

As such I would recommend Quantum Mortis: A Man Disrupted as a solid start for a straight-up Sci-Fi fan.
For a reader for whom fantasy is key, get The Last Witchking and move on from there.
-----------------------------------------

Re: the Leak.

How any fence sitter or moderate fan can not see the connections and the strings that have been pulled all this time; now exposed for all the world to see is baffling. I can only hope that when it comes time to vote for the works that have been nominated, that these squishy lemmings have a sliver of an ethical bone left in their bodies and a smidgen of bravery to honestly and earnestly read the selections before they cast their vote(s).

...one can only hope.

Anonymous Feh April 13, 2015 12:22 PM  

How any fence sitter or moderate fan can not see the connections and the strings that have been pulled all this time; now exposed for all the world to see is baffling.

Not at all. They would have to come here to see the connections laid out. Chances are they won't.

Anonymous Murgy "Who's watching me now, the IRS?" April 13, 2015 12:24 PM  

Joey, Joey, Joey,

Don't you know us 'right-wing bitter clingers' are ALWAYS seeing conspiracies where none exist? (Ignore that whole JournoList thing. Isolated Incident.)

Anonymous Tom April 13, 2015 12:25 PM  

Jeez, I read them in mostly in the order they were published, except Quantum Mortis. Those I left off until the Riding the Red Horse anthology made me want to go back and get all the background.

I liked the Eternal Warriors series a lot actually, though the writing isn't as high quality as it is later.

I don't see how you don't start with Summa Elvetica for Selenoth. But, I've got odd tastes when it comes to intellectual content compared to action.

I hadn't really thought about the order before. That's interesting. Hmmm. I really ended up liking the QM books even though I thought I wouldn't. I think you could read A Man Disrupted or The Programmed Mind either one first. Though I would prefer the co-authored Programmed first because it came first chronologically in the world.

By the way, you should direct this guy to skip you Vox and go straight to John C. Wright instead. He's way better. When do we get that transdimensional Catholic ninja book out, Mr. Editor?

Blogger Noah B April 13, 2015 12:26 PM  

And, of course, this is iron-clad proof that Tor authors collaborate on journalistic hit pieces.

This just keeps getting better.

Blogger bob k. mando April 13, 2015 12:31 PM  

to everyone who was concerned that Torgerson was getting weak in the knees and might fold:
"Nielsen-Haydens, your fellow travelers, and media goombahs . . . I MOCK YOU! I MOCK YOUR ASININE INCESTUOUS CLUSTERFUCKED LITTLE CULTURE OF DOCTRINAIRE PROGRESSOSEXUAL MEDIOCRITY MASKED AS SUPERIORITY! You are all dolts. You are moral and physical cowards. You are without ethics, without scruples, and if you weren’t so patently pathetic, I’d say you might be dangerous.

Fuck you. Fuck you all. The forces of the progressive pink and poofy Xerxes were met at the Hugo Hot Gates, and repelled by a few brave dudes and dudettes with the stones to stand up to your bullshit.
"


can you imagine if dueling was still legal? PNH wouldn't last 15 minutes.

Anonymous Thidran April 13, 2015 12:35 PM  

Hey Vox, lil' tip for the future: Archive everything! I've been using archive.today myself, which is great for twitter. First one's still around, but the second got scrubbed. A shame too, because that one's even more damning.

@scalzi: "@davidmbarnett Sure. My e-mail is on my site under "Contact Information" in the sidebar." (http://tweetsave.com/scalzi/status/297830468387225600, http://archive.today/8Dk5Y) Here's the first at least.

~Thidran, Current owner of the Cathedral of Misogyny, #Burgersandfries

Anonymous p-dawg April 13, 2015 12:37 PM  

I recommend starting with "The Irrational Atheist" because it's the most fun of all. It's one of the few hardcovers I have kept.

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 April 13, 2015 12:39 PM  

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume no one thinks that either REBEL MOON or THE RETURN OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION is the optimal starting point.

I don't know, I think The Irrational Atheist lays a good foundation for establishing both your style and substance.
But yes, the first Quantum Mortis book is where a new reader will want to begin.

Blogger grendel April 13, 2015 12:46 PM  

A first time reader should pick up "The Altar of Hate." It has sci-fi, fantasy, military sci-fi, humorous sci-fi, and a touching glimpse into the truly warm heart of Vox Day. It's like the complete story of Vox Day in one volume.

Blogger Mark Citadel April 13, 2015 12:46 PM  

George Martin is heavily censoring comments on his blog. Perhaps scared of the truth. There is definitely much hook-baiting here to try and make Sad Puppies totally disavow Vox. They really hate Wright as well. The SJWs will nuke the Hugos if push comes to shove. But then everyone will know they did it to prevent you being awarded for your work.

Blogger Shimshon April 13, 2015 12:48 PM  

I always suspected that RotGD was fiction.

Anonymous Eric Ashley April 13, 2015 1:00 PM  

My first Vox book was Rebel Moon. I thought he had some promise for a new writer although some of the descriptions of events might have been unclear. Long time ago...

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 13, 2015 1:01 PM  

It's interesting that they hate John Wright so...

Anonymous malcolm April 13, 2015 1:02 PM  

The Irrational Atheist for sure. If you like the Vox's mix of snark and smackdown, it is in full force in TIA.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J April 13, 2015 1:03 PM  

I don't see how you don't start with Summa Elvetica for Selenoth. But, I've got odd tastes when it comes to intellectual content compared to action.

You could start with either/or for Selenoth. The second hardcover edition of SE is worth owning because it contains in its whole all of the Selenoth novellas and short stories and offers a rich spectrum of backstory for the characters, setting, and worldview presented in ATOB, but it is not necessary to read any or all of SE or the Selenoth tales to grok ATOB.

However, after reading ATOB I was intrigued enough to go back and shell out for the 2nd ed. of SE+ and was well pleased.

Anonymous zen0 April 13, 2015 1:03 PM  

> I always suspected that RotGD was fiction.

You mean like 1984 and Brave New World?

Anonymous JoeyWheels April 13, 2015 1:06 PM  

@Murgy: Yes. You are correct.

Not a single rabbit has the intellectual curiosity of the average Sesame Street viewer.

I am ashamed that I gave them any credit at all.

Blogger Shimshon April 13, 2015 1:09 PM  

@zen0 The question was regarding which fiction to read first.

Anonymous zen0 April 13, 2015 1:13 PM  

> @zen0 The question was regarding which fiction to read first.

Not arguing, just riffing.

Blogger lubertdas April 13, 2015 1:15 PM  

I'm not a big fantasy fan, so my recommendation would be to start with the Quantum Mortis books. Fast paced, action packed, and a logically consistent plot.

Good ol' fashioned SciFi!

Blogger bob k. mando April 13, 2015 1:20 PM  

malcolm April 13, 2015 1:02 PM
The Irrational Atheist for sure. If you like the Vox's mix of snark and smackdown, it is in full force in TIA.



beware though.

IF you are atheist
AND you attempt to refute the points made in TIA
THEN you may wind up performing anal sex in a Nevada brothel

Anonymous Alexander April 13, 2015 1:24 PM  

If they nuke the hugo's, that's fine. It would be nice to save them, but it's easier to build on cleared earth than in a derelict ghetto.

Anonymous p-dawg April 13, 2015 1:27 PM  

@Shimshon: Sometimes, it's better to give people what they need rather than what they want. TIA all the way.

Anonymous joe doakes April 13, 2015 1:28 PM  

The War in Heaven. Easy to get into, quick read, good series. Then QM:AMD, again, catches interest, gets you into the series. Now jump back to fantasy with something in the Selenoth books, maybe The Wardog's Coin, for all the same reasons.

You can't hook new readers with Summa any more than Tolkein would have started readers in the middle of LOTR. Got to reel them in slowly.

Anonymous kfg April 13, 2015 1:29 PM  

"Don't you know us 'right-wing bitter clingers' are ALWAYS seeing conspiracies where none exist?"

Perhaps I should stop reading their books, where they, ya know, describe it in detail.

Anonymous Scintan April 13, 2015 1:30 PM  

to everyone who was concerned that Torgerson was getting weak in the knees and might fold

If that really was Brad, I take that as a very good sign. Brad had seemed a bit wobbly to me, and that would certainly indicate a much stiffer backbone, moving forward.

Blogger YIH April 13, 2015 1:31 PM  

Leonidas:
NONE of the "chosen nominees" got their pre-announcement phone call.
Bingo, inside info. Did you know Vegas won't post odds or take bets on the Oscars?
Nope, overseas ones will (like London) but not Vegas. The reason? It's possible for someone to know the outcome ahead of it being made public.

Blogger WATYF April 13, 2015 1:31 PM  

Getting back to the original topic, this is my recommended reading order for Selenoth books....

Summa Elvetical

A Magic Broken

A Throne of Bones

The Wardog's Coin

The Last Witchking

WATYF

Blogger Daniel April 13, 2015 1:32 PM  

You really can't go wrong. Action? QM. Inquiry? SE. Spiritual? WoA. The novellas are fair intros, too. The safe start is Altar of Hate or Wardogs Coin.

Blogger Nate April 13, 2015 1:33 PM  

QM: A Man Disrupted is the best place to start in my opinion... but if you're into a more Clancy style story arch... QM: A Programmed Mind is a good option.

Blogger Daniel April 13, 2015 1:34 PM  

You really can't go wrong. Action? QM. Inquiry? SE. Spiritual? WoA. The novellas are fair intros, too. The safe start is Altar of Hate or Wardogs Coin.

Blogger bob k. mando April 13, 2015 1:46 PM  

one of the great things about this blog is some of the bizarre stuff that goes on around it.

such as my TIA comment above.

new readers may not be aware, but that's not a joke. THAT HAPPENED. in real life.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/blog/kellym78

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-chat/a-question-about-kelly-from-the-rational-response-squad-t8607.html

you COULD NOT fictionalize this, no one would believe that it could happen.

Anonymous DeepThought April 13, 2015 1:48 PM  

I have been reading Torgesen's blog lately and frankly his distaste for Vox is palpable. Why is it all right if the SJW's blow up the Hugo's by voting No Award but it is not right if Vox retaliates? Brad is playing by their rules and his willingness to throw Vox under the bus, many times to show his "moderate" credentials disgusts me. Frankly I will not be buying another book authored by him.

If you think I exaggerate in any way, please read his blog.

Blogger bob k. mando April 13, 2015 1:48 PM  

it's getting to the point that i'm wondering when Vox is going to install Spacebunny as the queen of the New Roman Empire ...

just so he can check off the rest of the Bill Burr Schwarzenegger skit.

Blogger Antonio From Spain April 13, 2015 1:59 PM  

The reader might want to check this other post and its comments:

http://voxday.blogspot.com.es/2013/12/mailvox-starting-out-in-sf.html

Blogger Karl April 13, 2015 2:00 PM  

This is what happens when Sad Puppies sweep the Hugo nominations. Weaselzippers - Horrific Manatee Attack On Narcissistic SJW Caught On Selfie Stick… (I changed the title a bit). The manatee uprising has begun.

p.s. selfie sticks appear to be exceptional monkey traps.

Blogger James Dixon April 13, 2015 2:18 PM  

> ... or THE RETURN OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION is the optimal starting point.

Well, at least in theory, TRoTGD isn't fiction. But I do recommend it highly.

> I recommend starting with "The Irrational Atheist" because it's the most fun of all

I can't really argue with that. But it's not fiction either.

Blogger bob k. mando April 13, 2015 2:18 PM  

Karl April 13, 2015 2:00 PM
The manatee uprising has begun.
p.s. selfie sticks appear to be exceptional monkey traps.



this is proof positive that Darwinian Evolution is no longer in effect, if ever it was.

how gobsmackingly STUPID and incompetent can people be? even better, ANY place that has manatees in the water ... is going to have gators. and possibly carib crocodiles. if that's south Fla, there's also pythons.

she is completely terrified for the stupidest most non-harmful reason possible ... when there are ACTUAL THREATS in that environment.


and she even faux faints at ~45 seconds.

in the water.

without dropping her selfie stick.

won't someone pay attention to her?

Blogger James Dixon April 13, 2015 2:21 PM  

> Brad is playing by their rules and his willingness to throw Vox under the bus, many times to show his "moderate" credentials disgusts me.

Brad has a distaste for Vox's methods, not for Vox as a person. I don't think he's even met Vox.

Blogger James Dixon April 13, 2015 2:24 PM  

> ...she is completely terrified for the stupidest most non-harmful reason possible ... when there are ACTUAL THREATS in that environment.

My wife and I went on a 4 day Caribbean cruise for our 15th wedding anniversary. She went snorkeling off the private island owned by the cruise line. She spent a good 30 minutes playing water tag with a manatee. It seemed to enjoy it as much as she did. It's one of the highlights of her travels.

Anonymous Scintan April 13, 2015 2:24 PM  

Brad has a distaste for Vox's methods, not for Vox as a person. I don't think he's even met Vox.

Brad doesn't need to defend Vox, but he should learn such phrases as

"Take it up with Vox."
"That's not my business."
"Vox can speak for himself."

Instead of squishing out to "Others have been worse than Vox."

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 13, 2015 2:25 PM  

DeepThought,

I have. You're exaggerating. Brad never implied that it was okay for the SJW's to vote no award, and he pointed out that he doesn't think Vox should do it either.

Brad doesn't throw Vox under the bus, because he's smart enough to realize that Vox was never on the bus, and so can't be thrown off.

You don't need to agree with or even like Vox to not be an SJW. Brad certainly disagrees with Vox and his methods but he's no coward.

Anonymous kfg April 13, 2015 2:28 PM  

"won't someone pay attention to her?"

I clicked the link and speed scrolled the photos. That's all I had in me. Time is short and the Idiocracy rises. I hope she enjoyed her 15 milliseconds of fame as a mad bint.

Anonymous kfg April 13, 2015 2:30 PM  

What I took away from Brad's article is how carefully the other side is monitoring this blog. One offhand remark by Vox in the comments has thrown into yet another hysterical tizzie.

Anonymous Donn April 13, 2015 2:35 PM  

Brad called Vox the Kurgan and the wild wolf. You can't get a better pair of compliments.

Blogger El Borak April 13, 2015 2:35 PM  

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume no one thinks that either REBEL MOON...

Isn't that the book that made you eligible for SFWA in the first place? That would be ironic.

And actually, I liked the book quite a bit except for that unfortunate last chapter.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 13, 2015 2:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BoysMom April 13, 2015 2:43 PM  

What got me hooked was the story Master of Cats. So if you like fantasy, I'd say start there. Summa Elvetica chronologically has to be read after Master of Cats and Opera Vita Aeterna.

I kind of think of the Eternal Warriors trilogy as YA. At what age would the Ilk let their children read it? Are the rights available that Castalia can reprint these?

Blogger James Dixon April 13, 2015 2:48 PM  

> Are the rights available that Castalia can reprint these?

Since Vox had to take down his links to free copies of them, I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no. He can provide more details if he wishes, of course.

Blogger Student in Blue April 13, 2015 2:55 PM  

@Cataline Sergius

The link is nonfunctional.

Anonymous Tom B April 13, 2015 2:56 PM  

As an entrance to Vox's writing, I would recommend TIA; Sam Harris got a well deserved bitch slap in that one, and I have said that if I ever got the chance to teach a class on atheism vs theism, I would use TIA as required reading. (Which may be why I haven't found a job as an instructor yet, four years later...)

The only fiction of his I have read is Summa Elvettica, and two stories in one of the freebie ebooks given away on Amazon. All were exemplary stories, but Summa was my favorite.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 13, 2015 2:57 PM  

Cataline Sergius: " I did finally get around to Fisking it but I still feel dirty about it."

Your URL was malformed -- the correct link is here.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 13, 2015 2:58 PM  

Irrational Atheist and Return of the Great Depression are Classic Day, required reading.

Otherwise maybe Altar of Hate.

Blogger John Wright April 13, 2015 3:30 PM  

@Tom

"When do we get that transdimensional Catholic ninja book out, Mr. Editor?"

Tom, thank you for asking. I cannot tell you how flattered I am that you remembered.

SOMEWHITHER! It is sitting on the Editor's desk write now. I am busily writing NOWHITHER, which is the second book in the whoknowshowlongilogy.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 13, 2015 3:32 PM  

If you think I exaggerate in any way, please read his blog.

You exaggerate. I've read (and still do, although not as much as I do here) his blog. You're flat out wrong.

I'm always surprised when one of the main topics of discussion here is the completely thoughtless herd mentality of rabbits, why people on "our" side are always demanding herd mentality from us.

So Brad doesn't seem to like Vox very much, or at least doesn't really like the Rabid Puppies. Why not? He's running Sad Puppies. They're rival slates, to some degree allied, but to some degree in competition. Who says that they need to march in lock-step?

Real men don't always agree about everything, and they also don't mind that. Your response sounds more like that of a groupie or even a cultist. Not everyone who says anything critical about The Overlord™ is bowing to pressure to look like a moderate. It's not that binary. He just has his own opinion about how to proceed.

Anonymous T April 13, 2015 3:32 PM  

I've read most of Vox's fiction twice, especially the Selenoth series, so I'll focus on that.

My recommendation would be to read the Selenoth short stories first, then if you want, (If you feel you're invested enough that you are going to probably read everything Selenoth), read Summa Elvetica before ATOB.

I found the backstory in the short stories and SE to be fascinating, particularly the backstory of Bessarias (great character, Vox!), the Witchkings, and so on. Vox's short stories serve very well to flesh out the world and jump from place to place, painting between the outline and giving color to the universe.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 13, 2015 3:36 PM  

UPDATE: with link fixed.

Interesting point in Freer's piece:

The chances of a ‘hit’ piece, intended to denigrate, on an American populist author with little impact on his British scene, in a publication that tends to Ahrt, are slim. The chance of it happening the very day that the Hugo Nomination shortlist is released, targeting an audience who might possibly go to LonCon, but probably would not have heard of Larry Correia? In other words, to poison minds well before they saw their voter packets…

The chance that this happened purely by accident – about the same as a fully armed nuclear missile turning into a Sperm whale a few seconds before impact.


Now it was hardly surprising to me that the Beast that the Rules Geriatric-Con was able to work out that we had successfully stormed the beach heads this year.

Hugo candidates that had been promised Good Things, in exchange for kissing the ring (and risking some truly terrifying wart contamination in the process) were undoubtedly "disappointed" that the Beast hadn't delivered and made her aware of the fact.

I get that one.

But what surprises me is that a year ago, she had enough intell to able successfully predict that Larry was going to be up for Best Novel. If it had been Larry and Sarah that would have been one thing.

But she knew only one guy who wasn't supposed to be at the party had good reason to rent a tux.

Then there was the wholesale involvement of the MSM this year. EW's piece was written by a B-Team stringer who keeps her head nestled in Kim Kardashian's legendary ass. Not a geek girl by nature. There is no way she heard about sad puppies unless she had been spoon fed this story by an editor who viewed her as being completely expendable.

This was higher profile than last year but it shouldn't have left the blogs during a high intensity news cycle. Yet it did. Amanda Marcotte inserted herself. I did finally get around to Fisking it but I still feel dirty about it.


My take away on all this, is that New York publishing is rather unhappy about this peasants revolt.

Blogger Russell April 13, 2015 3:46 PM  

For fantasy : "Summa Elvetical" second edition then "A Throne of Bones"

Vox's writing is good in Summa, but he's even better in AToB. The story collections are all good, a number of his shorts are fantastic, you can't go wrong with them.

Blogger J Van Stry April 13, 2015 4:14 PM  

I'm starting to think that 'Pissing off Vox Day' needs to be added to the list of 'Classic Blunders' from 'The Princess Bride'

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 13, 2015 4:29 PM  

"What I took away from Brad's article is how carefully the other side is monitoring this blog. One offhand remark by Vox in the comments has thrown into yet another hysterical tizzie."

We really should leave some comments to raise their blood pressure. Like Apple's ceo is a cunt for crying about not getting pizza delivered to his wedding while his company gladly supports moslem nations that behead gays.

Anonymous Roundtine April 13, 2015 4:57 PM  

I second WATYF

Anonymous daddynichol April 13, 2015 6:14 PM  

joe doakes April 13, 2015 1:28 PM
The War in Heaven. Easy to get into, quick read, good series. Then QM:AMD, again, catches interest, gets you into the series. Now jump back to fantasy with something in the Selenoth books, maybe The Wardog's Coin, for all the same reasons.


Agreed.

Anonymous Billy April 13, 2015 6:21 PM  

I agree, Quantum Mortis would be a good place to start. ATOB's is epic, and is a better novel though. I've read A War in Heaven. Great read but geared towards a young adult crowd. Out of the three mentioned above I must admit that the latter seems to have had more of a lasting impact. It opened up ideas of the spirit realm that I have never given thought to. Vox has matured and changed greatly since that book.

Blogger Eric Mueller April 13, 2015 6:24 PM  

When I first read RGD, I could barely comprehend most of it. Great book, but definitely not a starting point for new readers. I've been meaning to go back and read it again now that I've had several years of studying Austrian economics, but my reading list keeps growing and I have no idea when I'd fit it in.

QM:AMD was great! Very fast paced and entertaining. Haven't read ATOB yet, but I have bought it.

Anonymous Billy April 13, 2015 6:27 PM  

I kind of think of the Eternal Warriors trilogy as YA. At what age would the Ilk let their children read it? As soon as they're old enough to read it and comprehend. The younger the better. Are the rights available that Castalia can reprint these? Amazon carries the first two of the seris used. Castalia ebook seems to be the only outlet for the final book in the series of three.

Blogger automatthew April 13, 2015 7:14 PM  

JCW: "SOMEWHITHER! It is sitting on the Editor's desk write now. I am busily writing NOWHITHER, which is the second book in the whoknowshowlongilogy."

n-logy.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to write a series of books that functions as an inductive proof.

Blogger Kull April 13, 2015 8:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Kull April 13, 2015 8:24 PM  

I would dive in with Opera Vita Aeterna. It is a masterpiece. I found it profoundly moving. It will set you up with a sense of the possibilities, let you see what the author is capable of. The other Selenoth shorts are good and then you can get into Throne of Bones. Summa is good and provides some back story but it is written in a less sure hand than later things in the setting. Still worth the time, make no mistake, but it feels different. I think I recall Vox saying something to the effect that it was some sort of experiment or thought piece that spun into a whole other sort of thing. Apologies if I am misquoting. Am I misquoting? In that case I challenge you to a "debate"! Right now! Unless you want to do it, then no!
Kidding!
I can't even keep up with the posts lately. This has been a highly instructive few couple of days.

Blogger Daniel April 13, 2015 8:32 PM  

OVA means even more if you read ATOB and SE first.

Anonymous Rhys O'Reilly April 13, 2015 8:51 PM  

Rebel Moon is not terrible. I found it a few years ago secondhand (after already reading Vox's blog) and, while its not Hugo material, its good for a pulpy science fiction novel reminiscent of the midlist page turners from the 50s-80s (such as Harrison when he's not at his best).

Blogger John Wright April 13, 2015 9:33 PM  

'Pissing off Vox Day' can both be the act of annoying Theodore Beale, and also the annual celebration of the event, that is, Pissing-Off-Vox Day

Blogger automatthew April 13, 2015 9:43 PM  

Daniel: "OVA means even more if you read ATOB and SE first."

Publication order is almost always the right order, even if you have to start in the middle and go 'round the horn.

Blogger GK Chesterton April 14, 2015 12:27 AM  

Witchking is by far the best collection of the ones I have read. I also think its ""The Hoblets of Wiccam Fensboro" comes closest to a true "Mary Sue Story" in that it has a military leader and outsider who, frustrated with his governmental situation, defends a group of people he doesn't otherwise like.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit April 14, 2015 6:48 AM  

Dear Amazon,

"This work an anthology of non-fiction and fiction pieces, not just fiction. Clearly the reviewer has never read it."

Report as inappropriate *press*

Blogger sysadmn April 14, 2015 9:10 AM  

whoknowshowlongilogy


My favorite series length! Patrick O'Brian hit 20 1/2 novels in 30 years without jumping the shark. It's a remarkably coherent opus, with multi-novel plot arcs.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 11:02 AM  

Witchking is by far the best collection of the ones I have read. I also think its ""The Hoblets of Wiccam Fensboro" comes closest to a true "Mary Sue Story" in that it has a military leader and outsider who, frustrated with his governmental situation, defends a group of people he doesn't otherwise like.

Mary Sue? Are you suggesting Vox was an Italian during the last years of WW2 who helped hide Jews from the Nazis?

Blogger GK Chesterton April 15, 2015 12:44 AM  

A Mary Sue is just an idealized version of the self. I think the main character is Vox's idealization of his self. The Goblin in question is martially capable and wants to live a life apart and while being a racial realist believes in the rights of the Hoblets to continue breathing.

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