ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, April 16, 2015

Of Lew and Hugo

Allan Davis informs libertarians about the Hugo Awards:
Larry Correia, Brad Torgerson, Vox Day, and all of the other “Puppies” supporters set out to demonstrate that the Hugo process was politicized and broken.  They said that if authors were nominated who didn’t “fit the mold,” who weren’t approved by the ruling faction, they would be blacklisted, ostracized, insulted, and deliberately voted dead last, regardless of what they had written or how well it was done.  Their predictions have come true, and they have proven their point admirably.

Libertarians, and especially science fiction fans with libertarian leanings, should pay particular attention to the Puppies campaigns.  Like last year’s Gamersgate controversy, the Puppies drew a line in the sand–a stopping point in the ongoing culture war between individualists and statists, between the people who believe in freedom of expression and the mindless drones who believe in political correctness.

Brad Torgerson makes the point perfectly: 

    Folks, until or unless political correctness is given the boot, this kind of stuff isn’t going to stop. It won’t be just me getting the torch. It will be you too. You other authors, and you other fans. Political correctness has a bottomless stomach, and is red in tooth and claw. Even if you try to appease the beast, it will eat you eventually anyway.
The rage of the Left is considerable, but it is to be expected. And celebrated, because they are only smiling when the Right is going down to its customary Noble Defeat.

They will point-and-shriek, they will bluff and bully, and they will play divide-and-conquer. They've been trying to isolate me, a Sigma, for ten years now. (Oh no, a briar patch!) Now they're back at it again, little realizing that giving me more freedom of movement is not exactly something I regard as a problem. We are so far ahead of them in the OODA loop that it will likely astonish you once the next stages become apparent.

The most important thing to keep in mind is this: if they're not shrieking, we're not winning. And speaking of Brad, he has an excellent post up highlighting what both Larry and I have already said. He is not me. He is not responsible for me. He does not answer for me. And I can only smile to see the cowards of the other side desperately trying to get them to take me on because they are afraid to do it themselves.

The Sad Puppies are not Rabid. We are. And of course, as this comment shows, the other side has very good reason to be afraid:
After seeing last nights events I really started losing heart. I feel a little better today, but it’s just too much pain to deal with over the last month to really put any effort into looking far enough ahead to the possibility of light somewhere, someday. It was bad enough when it was Damien Walter, the HuffPo and Daily Kos spreading the disinformation, lies and character assassination, but when Davidson, Willis, GRRM, and others that are supposed to be some of the TOP PROFESSIONALS OF THEIR FIELD do it I have a hard time seeing the hope. All I can see right now is that Vox wins, no matter what. His slate of nominees win: he wins. The SJWs get enough votes together to burn it down this year with No Award and Vox wins. Worse, if that happens, Vox gets enough followers together next year, and possibly decades afterwards and No Award takes all the categories going forward.
Imagine that. A professional game designer, an elite wargamer who specializes in one of the most complex wargames ever developed, a student and editor of two of the finest strategic minds on the planet, might be able to construct a Xanatos Gambit? You don't say.

Let them lie. Let them disinform. Let them assassinate my character for, what is it now, the 7,436th time?  After all, are we not reliably informed that what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. And again. And again.

It will take a long time, but trust me, if you thought this exploit was even remotely amusing, you're going to love what is coming down the pike in the 2017 timeframe. There are some pieces that still need to come together - the execution is always in the details - but if it works as designed, it will be beyond epic.

And if you're not part of the Rabid Puppy pack yet, join Sasquan before July. Whether Jim Butcher or John Wright or Noah Ward walks off with the plastic rockets, you'll want to say that you were there for Rabid Puppy 2015: the Ravening.

Labels:

148 Comments:

Blogger Guitar Man April 16, 2015 3:43 PM  

Dang if they aren't trying to cause infighting between SP and RP. Some of the SPers are falling for it, too.

Blogger CM April 16, 2015 3:48 PM  

Guitar Man, are you guitarman77 on WoT?

I enjoyed reading that essay. I wish there were comments.

Blogger Marissa April 16, 2015 3:52 PM  

OT: But it looks like Gamergate is successfully ending ad revenue to those sites that falsely and maliciously attacked them

It's hard to shriek when you're scrounging for sustenance.

Anonymous Daniel April 16, 2015 3:53 PM  

Oh boy are they shrieking. Not only that, but they are hacking into each other over semantics and tactics. I'd call it friendly fire, if those who are doing it had any friends.

I will be the first to admit that the chaos they are raining down on themselves is quite a bit beyond what I anticipated. I thought their forts would soften for a while. Nope. House of cards. I guess that's the nice thing about knowing all options are good: it really doesn't matter which one you thought they'd go for first.

Blogger Scott April 16, 2015 4:01 PM  

Briar patch :)

My my my what a wonderful day...

Blogger Allan Davis April 16, 2015 4:03 PM  

CM, thanks, I'm glad you liked it. I lurk here often and comment rarely.

-=ad=-

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 4:04 PM  

Vox
We are so far ahead of them in the OODA loop that it will likely astonish you once the next stages become apparent.



see? SEE? i told you he says things just to troll the Ilk. now we'll have the Kratman in here arguing about how stupid OODA is as a concept.

the Kratman vs the Kurgan. now THAT could be amusing.

and we'll have Noah and Nate getting it on in the other corner about 9mm vs .45.

we get a couple of beer and boobs arguments going and we'll have a full on PPV cage match.

Blogger Student in Blue April 16, 2015 4:10 PM  

The most important thing to keep in mind is this: if they're not shrieking, we're not winning.

And the kicker is, they can't not shriek.

They are broken. They shriek and shriek because their internals are scraping against each other, like a trainwreck.

Blogger Moor April 16, 2015 4:11 PM  

That was the single best summary so far of the history involved up to this point.

Anonymous Alexander Olaffson April 16, 2015 4:15 PM  

OODA this, next stage that.

Where is Chedderman Ragnorok? We want to pillage and plunder!

But (more) seriously, I fully expect astonishment. We've already reached levels that while I knew in theory existed, had never really seen them play out just as the predictions called for. I have no doubt I shall enjoy more of that as we go along.

So does it count as astonishment if you expect to be astonished. Levels within levels.

Anonymous fish April 16, 2015 4:21 PM  

I'm enjoying this way more than I should!

Anonymous aviendha April 16, 2015 4:23 PM  

I try to ignore politics in the entertainment I consume. But more and more little things that are shoved down my throat in daily life, is intruding into my entertainment.
To see people who's "art" I enjoyed at some level, show their true cowardly selves is beyond disappointing.

Of course all predicted in advance by Vox. Gamma and rabbit behavior...pathetic. Of course the creator of tribbles that spewed such disgusting crap complaining about the puppies is a radical hating homosexual. Why did I think that while reading his post?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 16, 2015 4:24 PM  

They said that if authors were nominated who didn’t “fit the mold,” who weren’t approved by the ruling faction, they would be blacklisted, ostracized, insulted, and deliberately voted dead last, regardless of what they had written or how well it was done. Their predictions have come true, and they have proven their point admirably.

Exactly, the political bias in the broken Hugo system is testable. The obvious null hypothesis? Why, that the political, religious, philosophicla, and/or scientific views of an author would make no difference in their status at Worldcon. That's the claim that the SJW's essentially have made, when they are not frothing in anger or screeching about trigger warnings, that is.

What did we actually see? Should we ask Orson Scott Card if religion or personal political views affected his status? Eh?

The Puppies have demolished the null hypothesis two years in a row. Political correctness, in the sense that the Maoists of the Cultural Revo used it, clearly plays a major role in Hugo voting.

It's been tested. The claims of Scalzi, Stross, etc. have been demonstrated to be false. There's no fact for them to stand on, just childish "because we and our club say so" nonsense.

The SJW's like to wave "because Science" around, but once again we see that can't even understand a simple syllogism, or a two-step logic chain, let alone anything more complicated.

Anonymous WinstonWebb April 16, 2015 4:24 PM  

"Some of the SPers are falling for it, too."

Which ones?

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 4:27 PM  

"9mm vs .45"

That's cause they're both pussies....

real men shoot .303 British

Blogger RM April 16, 2015 4:27 PM  

This whole conflict has been a lesson in fragile vs. antifragile strategy. The rabbits seem to have a very limited strategy: lie, and ostracize the dissenters.
Besides the obvious stupidity of lying, such a simplistic strategy is going to be fragile. The amount of new information they seem to be willing to take into account seems minimal.
The strategy stays the same regardless of the movements of the opponent. I have not seen them DO anything except try to ostracize their opponents. As soon as people realized that all they had to do was push back
a little, the SJWs started to lose power. Vox is the Black Swan to the SJWs system. On the other side of things the strategy is completely antifragile. Get a dozen, or in this case three
different approaches to a problem, and people who are willing to adapt and include new information to achieve their goal, and you have an antifragile response to the attacks.
The puppies are a hydra; GRRM's suggestion is to convince the puppies to denounce and ostractize Vox? That is such a good idea! It worked out SO WELL the last time someone did that.

Blogger Guitar Man April 16, 2015 4:27 PM  

CM, nope, not him. I guess Allan Davis is another guitarman. I'm interested in the essay, though.

Blogger Guitar Man April 16, 2015 4:29 PM  

Winston, hard to say. None of the leaders, per se, but definitely some of the comments on MHN indicate as much. Of course, they could be more SJW's posing as SP's who are anti-RP.

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 4:30 PM  

"I try to ignore politics in the entertainment I consume."

Rabid Puppies provides the entertainment in my politics.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 16, 2015 4:30 PM  

I try to ignore politics in the entertainment I consume. But more and more little things that are shoved down my throat in daily life, is intruding into my entertainment.

See, the game for years was "It's just you. You're just not with it.". Stan Schmidt wrote a couple of editorials in Analog in the late 90's and early 00's basically arguing that point, "Oh, SF is just as good as it ever was, you old guys just don't really understand the moderns". And sitting alone in my bathtub, I knd of bought into that. So I kind of quit buying Analog and stuck to reading SF written prior to 1990.

The Puppies campaign had one useful effect on me: I realized it was not just me. It was not just me at all, there was and is a whole world of people who had also grown tired of clumsy, poorly written, threadbare plotted SF with cardboard cutout characters.

One of the games the statist totalitarian wannabes play: "It's just you. Nobody else has complained". And it's almost always a lie.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 16, 2015 4:34 PM  

Real men shoot .303 British

What kinda holster you puttin' that pistol into, Hoss?

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 4:36 PM  

Pistol? Pistols are for city slickers, women, fags and nigras.

Anonymous Alexander April 16, 2015 4:38 PM  

Dammit Danby!

It's lumping them in with groups like that that gets us accused of misogyny!

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 16, 2015 4:39 PM  

Pistol? Pistols are for city slickers, women, fags and nigras.

Well, then, why such a puny cartridge? All real calibers at least start with the number "4", whether .404 Jeffries or .45-70, right?

Anonymous Earl Ragnar cheddarman April 16, 2015 4:45 PM  

Alexander Olaffson, welcome to the Dread Ilk!

With a name like that, you must be a son of Northmen!

Blogger Salt April 16, 2015 4:55 PM  

We are so far ahead of them in the OODA loop that it will likely astonish you once the next stages become apparent.

#Sadpuppies keep trying to split the narrative; We are NOT rabid puppies. This has been ongoing for a while. The SJWs seem not to care (no distinction of puppies) but it's a good tactic; divide and conquer. Unless, and of course, it's planned for; pulling a Braveheart. RP works from the lands in the north while SP comes in from the lands in the south.

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 4:56 PM  

@Paradigm
you ever fire a .303?

Anonymous Alexander Olaffson April 16, 2015 4:59 PM  

Earl Ragnar cheddarman,

Many moons ago my ancestors came from Jórvík. I itch for the longboat to collect my due of brass tripods and silver, two-handled cups, of grains and spices and sacks of sheepskin filled with delightful beverages that warm even the worst of winter knights on the worst of winter nights, and bolts of varied fabrics, and fair women of childbearing age from the lands across the wine-dark seas.

Alas. I find some of those quite lacking in this most recent campaign. Very well, then I shall battle for the hounds, for who would not fight to see misery depart his oldest friend?

Blogger Noah B April 16, 2015 5:04 PM  

Brad T is fighting a battle of his own. He is fighting for the right to be his own man and take his own positions without explicitly either siding with Vox or renouncing him. And in doing so, he is having good effect against the left's Alinskyite tactics. I didn't appreciate what he was doing at first, but I do now.

Blogger Noah B April 16, 2015 5:08 PM  

"you ever fire a .303?"

Man does that bring back memories. A friend of mine in HS got one for about 30 bucks. The bore was in such bad shape that you could barely see the rifling anymore, but we took it to the range and tried it out. End result: something like a 4 foot group at 100 yards. I know, I know: NAELT.

Blogger Chris Mallory April 16, 2015 5:10 PM  

"you ever fire a .303?"

I leave it for my 9 year old daughter. Real men use a .45-70 or a 12 gauge.

Blogger Guitar Man April 16, 2015 5:17 PM  

CM, misread your question. Not on WoT.

Blogger john black April 16, 2015 5:19 PM  

"I leave it for my 9 year old daughter. Real men use a .45-70 or a 12 gauge."

No, real men use a rocket launcher or an M249 Saw.

Blogger Corvinus April 16, 2015 5:24 PM  

The SJW's like to wave "because Science" around, but once again we see that can't even understand a simple syllogism, or a two-step logic chain, let alone anything more complicated.

Given how much difficulty they have with statistics (they always read "blacks are less intelligent than whites on average" as "all blacks are less intelligent than all whites"), I think you're asking for far too much when you trot out hard concepts such as "null hypothesis.

Blogger CM April 16, 2015 5:29 PM  

Lol GM, its ok.

I know some of the guys here play and i enjoy reading usernames... they are entertaining and occassionally ironic. I saw a guitarman and wondered...

Blogger Chris Mallory April 16, 2015 5:30 PM  

"an M249 Saw"

A full auto .22?

Anonymous Viidad April 16, 2015 5:33 PM  

Excellent post, Allan and a marvelous summary of the game so far. Very good to see you writing for LR.

Blogger Student in Blue April 16, 2015 5:40 PM  

I'll see your SAW, and raise you a Mk 19.

Blogger Allan Davis April 16, 2015 5:45 PM  

Thanks, Viidad. Lew asked me to follow up with a similar piece on Gamergate, so I think I've got my work cut out for me...

-=ad=-

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 16, 2015 5:47 PM  

"and we'll have Noah and Nate getting it on in the other corner about 9mm vs .45"

Bah, I'll keep my Glock 23 ccw gun, harder hitting than the metrosexual round, and more shots than the fossil round.

Re:.303. Last time I shot one, I distinctly remember a beach-ball sized muzzle flash in daylight and the butt plate leaving a mark.

[/thread hijack]

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 5:53 PM  

"...who would not fight to see misery depart his oldest friend?"

and truest friend. I have never been betrayed by a dog.
Even a horse will betray you. Boats are notorious for it. Not a dog.

With my SMLE Mk IV (American built, and still marked property of the US gov't.), I can do a 2" group at 100 yards.That's after Bubba the gun-mangler (or maybe Achmed, there are a few indications it spent time in Pakistan) "sporterized" it, by cutting off 5" of the barrel.

It's a work in progress.

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 5:55 PM  

...the butt plate leaving a mark."

Yeah, it'll do that. I can shoot my .30-06 all day, but I'm good for about 10 rounds of the .303 before I start flinching.

Anonymous Allabaster April 16, 2015 6:06 PM  

Proper gentlemen anyway, not any of those uncouth straight wall cases anyway.

Anonymous Michael Maier April 16, 2015 6:21 PM  

Chris Mallory April 16, 2015 5:30 PM "an M249 Saw"

A full auto .22?


No damn joke. I loved using the SAW in GHOST RECON... then I found out it was a measly .223.

At least Chuck Norris' M60 shot 7.62 AND worked coming out of the water like a demon out of hell!

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 6:31 PM  

*peeks in*

ahhhhhh, yes. my work here is done. i don't see any boob debates going on though. son, i am disappoint.


anyways, i'm not sure how much of this is constructed ad ( probably all of it? ) and how much is scripted so the real analysis won't come til we see how the public reacts to it ...

really, REALLY dumb Dove ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9RdBGBiIl0

why i got served this in the middle of a fencing video, i have no idea.

Blogger John Wright April 16, 2015 6:54 PM  

@Olaffson
"from the lands across the wine-dark seas...."

Aha! In the same way that the elves living among us in secret, and the immortal highlanders, and the UFO people disguised as human beings, bookish people who loves the classics and have the souls of poets and the love of conquest can somehow, by certain secret signs and code-words, detect each other hidden among the muggles.

Welcome, brother. We are strangers far from home, but we are not alone:

"“What did I want? I wanted a Roc's egg. I wanted a harem loaded with lovely odalisques less than the dust beneath my chariot wheels, the rust that never stained my sword. I wanted raw red gold in nuggets the size of your fist, and feed that lousy claim jumper to the huskies! I wanted to get up feeling brisk and go out and break some lances, then pick a likely wench for my droit du seigneur - I wanted to stand up to the Baron and dare him to touch my wench! I wanted to hear the purple water chuckling against the skin of the Nancy Lee in the cool of the morning watch and not another sound, nor any movement save the slow tilting of the wings of the albatross that had been pacing us the last thousand miles. I wanted the hurtling moons of Barsoom. I wanted Storisende and Poictesme, and Holmes shaking me awake to tell me, "The game's afoot!" I wanted to float down the Mississippi on a raft and elude a mob in company with the Duke of Bilgewater and Lost Dauphin. I wanted Prester John, and Excalibur held by a moon-white arm out of a silent lake. I wanted to sail with Ulysses and with Tros of Samothrace and to eat the lotus in a land that seemed always afternoon. I wanted the feeling of romance and the sense of wonder I had known as a kid. I wanted the world to be the way they had promised me it was going to be, instead of the tawdry, lousy, fouled-up mess it is. I had had one chance - for ten minutes yesterday afternoon. Helen of Troy, whatever your true name may be - and I had known it and I had let it slip away. Maybe one chance is all you ever get.”

Blogger Matt April 16, 2015 7:08 PM  

Its painful to deal with a sci-fi award institution? Wtf

Blogger Bogey April 16, 2015 7:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 16, 2015 7:28 PM  

@Paradigm
you ever fire a .303?


Yes. No. III and No. IV. Not ever that "jungle carbine" thing. The .303 is a pretty good cartridge, although I prefer 30-06.

Blogger JAY WILL April 16, 2015 7:32 PM  

Vox draws people to him. This stuff makes me want to get involved. Art/writing/media/whatever is always political, a story is never just a story. Stories ALWAYS mean truth. If you go up there boy, you will die, that other boy did and he's gone. I turn my telly on and it lies to me as soon as the light comes on.

Anonymous kh123 April 16, 2015 7:42 PM  

"...it’s just too much pain to deal with over the last month to really put any effort into looking far enough ahead to the possibility of light somewhere, someday."

Given the cultural unraveling they've delighted in for the past few decades, this is what's known as returning the screw.

Welcome to the party, pal.

Blogger maniacprovost April 16, 2015 7:47 PM  

In a Xanatos gambit, I'm pretty sure the pawns need a chance to win. They don't see peaceful coexistence as winning.

Blogger IM2L844 April 16, 2015 7:53 PM  

Sheesh. Going postal ain't what it used to be. SJWs ruin everything.

Anonymous paradox April 16, 2015 7:58 PM  

Cut off one head, two more shall take its place.

Hail HYDRA!"

Anonymous Anonymous April 16, 2015 8:03 PM  

I saw this http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/16/im-not-vox-day/#comment-61737

If the Dread Lord will deign to smile... it will be enough.



- Lurker

Blogger macengr April 16, 2015 8:25 PM  

"We are so far ahead of them in the OODA loop that it will likely astonish you once the next stages become apparent."

I take it there are plans in the works?

Anonymous Anubis April 16, 2015 8:30 PM  

"Brad T is fighting a battle of his own."

Did anyone apologize to him for having a black wife, I mean for saying the things they did while he had a black wife?

"the butt plate leaving a mark." Have you guys ever heard of recoil pads/cushions? Some womenfolk wear them.

"any boob debates going on though" I don't think I have ever seen one here are they about size or real/fake?


We need to stop talking about the BLACK SWAN or the leftists will figure out our strategy came from that movie & will be able to defeat us. Hopefully they just look at the crazy ballerina on the cover and not realize how deep the movie is. ;)

Anonymous Stirner April 16, 2015 8:38 PM  

Anon 8:03PM: I saw that as well, and had to say Hmmm.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 16, 2015 8:39 PM  

I disagree with Larry and Brad's approach here. I am Vox Day. I am Larry Correia. I am Brad Torgerson. I am Spartacus.

Blogger James Dixon April 16, 2015 8:46 PM  

> Of course, they could be more SJW's posing as SP's who are anti-RP.

Of course. "They always lie", remember.

Blogger Vox April 16, 2015 8:50 PM  

I take it there are plans in the works?

Without question.

Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 April 16, 2015 8:50 PM  

Sad Puppies = Good Cop
Rapid Puppies = Bad Cop
Sick Puppies = SJWs

I'm going to keep bringing this up as long as people tend to not pay attention.
This is not quantum physics, it's Law and Order, Special Victims Unit.
The Sick Puppies are the perps, the fans of SF/F are the Special Victims.

Anonymous Steve April 16, 2015 8:51 PM  

Sometimes you read a comment that reminds you just how differently other people can see the world:

After seeing last nights events I really started losing heart. I feel a little better today, but it’s just too much pain to deal with over the last month to really put any effort into looking far enough ahead to the possibility of light somewhere

I hope he feels better about things soon, because this is the most fun I've had since my son introduced me to Spongebob Squarepants.

Different personality types. Or maybe just different perspectives. Some people feel frustrated and depressed after an argument, a fight, a disagreement. Or they lose heart on seeing people lying and crying. Nice people tend to feel down about stuff like that.

They shouldn't. Conan the Barbarian was right about the good things in life.

We come into this world kicking and screaming. When my first son was born, I was amazed at that. In films newborns always seem so peaceful, but then the nurse handed me a tiny boy, blue and bloody, wriggling like a fresh-caught trout and wailing like a banshee with a stubbed toe.

Life is struggle. There are a few million virus particles in every drop of seawater. The world is full of things that are trying to kill us, from polar bears to volcanoes to pretty much every native species in Australia. A chunk of frozen poo from an aircraft flying overhead could kill you at any moment, like a smelly and embarrassing KEW.

At what point do we start believing that life is about playing nice? It never has been.

It wasn't nice when a clique of SJW's took over the Hugos, an award they said was for all of fandom. It wasn't nice when they spazzed their hatred of "the white dude parade" all over the internet. It wasn't going to get any nicer when wild Puppies appeared to reclaim those rocket ships for all fankind.

Anybody who watched what happened with Gamergate recently would've been aware of the depths SJW's plumb when they feel like they aren't getting their own way. Lying and crying is all they know. They are very, very good at lying and crying. But that's all it is.

God made our enemies ridiculous, and I take that as a sign that it's OK to have fun watching them stamp their little feet.

I LOLed when funny little man-hobbit G. R. R. Martin took time off not writing his book to concern troll the Puppies.

I keked when Connie Willis, an old lady who lives in a house made of Hugo Awards, ranted and raved like a toddler being told she couldn't have chocolate for dinner.

I rofl'd when Larry bitchslapped John Scalzi with his glorious observation on Twitter.

This is a good fight, and I don't want to be nice. I aim to misbehave, and it only cost me $40.

Blogger Noah B April 16, 2015 8:55 PM  

This evil plan -- does it involve feeding them to Wendell one by one? He seems to make quite an impression.

Anonymous jack April 16, 2015 9:00 PM  

They have my money. Will they confirm? My name is on the membership lists as a supporter. Will I get my pin for voting? Love to know.
I posted the comment below over at MHN in reply to a JCW comment. I would like to know the answer so the thing is pasted here:

Should not be OT, I think. When the guy [and gal?] over at Worldcon decided to remove JCW work from the nominations based an ‘evolving’ and increased ‘understanding’ of what constitutes published material for Hugos, did they not violate some sort of Worldcon rule about rules? Should not the evolving standard for previously published works up for Hugos be voted on by the members?
At a minimum, considering that Scalsi, to name maybe only one, was given a pass some years ago for the same ‘offense’ the least they could have done was to say, ‘OK, JCW can stay in; we need to give notice, though, that, starting in 2016, these are the NEW standards. Unless, of course, their idea was to flame the anger of Puppydom to ever greater intensity. Which they have to a great degree.

Keep flaming us, over there, it will make later this year and next year and the years thereafter all the more sweet.

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 9:00 PM  

macengr April 16, 2015 8:25 PM
I take it there are plans in the works?



look, Vox waiting *until after Hugo nominations were closed* to announce the Rabid Puppies slate has some immediate consequences to all of the fooforaw going on this week.

like Kloos withdrawing because 'nominated by Vox Day' IS NOT FUCKING POSSIBLE.

because ALL registrations due to Vox's slate happened AFTER the nomination period had closed.

Vox, and all partisans associated specifically with Rabid Puppies, NOMINATED NO ONE.

ALL success in dominating the Hugo nominations was due to two factors:
1 - Sad Puppies, being run by Brad Torgerson
2 - *the quality of the works nommed*

BECAUSE VOX WASN'T IN IT YET.

Rabid Puppies will impact ONLY the final Hugo vote. period.

so, Vox "accepting" Kloos' apology is more of a joke than anything else. Kloos has stated repeatedly that he had no problem being nominated by SP, but RP was right out.

only, Kloos ( and all the rest of the rabbits ) was too damn dumb to figure out that Vox didn't have a thing to do with nominating him.

so Kloos and Bellet and Willis and Gerrold and EW and all the rest have slit their own throats FOR NO DAMN REASON.

oh, sorry.

there is ONE reason.

they have all demonstrated their undying loyalty to the Party.

two, there are TWO reasons:
they've all demonstrated how much they hate us, even when WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

you see the Hugo rules, like the Maginot Line, can be considered a static defense. everything is laid in advance, as far as the eye can see. and cannot be moved.

this allows someone with, shall we say Machiavellian tendencies? ( let's do ) to organize a tempo of operations that weaves around the fixed in stone dates for the various elements of the Hugo process.

i'm sure if i'm blowing opsec somebody will nuke this post. i've got no problems with that.

but that's just what i've sussed out from available data. nobody has told me squat about what's going on. YOU should be able to figure at least this much out on your own as well.

*rubs hands together in glee*

this portends truly EPIC amounts of blood and gore in the near future.

"Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne! Sanity is for the weak."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=9-gSJW3sHXE

Blogger rcocean April 16, 2015 9:03 PM  

"Without question."

Great. I love it when a plan comes together.

Blogger Vox April 16, 2015 9:04 PM  

because ALL registrations due to Vox's slate happened AFTER the nomination period had closed. Vox, and all partisans associated specifically with Rabid Puppies, NOMINATED NO ONE.

No, Bob. You're mistaking the end of the REGISTRATION period with the end of the NOMINATION period.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 16, 2015 9:04 PM  

If the kindly gentle papa conservatives feel the need to denounce anyone let it be the cult leaders of the SJWs who are denounced. It is they who took the emotionally fragile or morally corrupt and gave them a script which is paving the way to hell.

Blogger Noah B April 16, 2015 9:08 PM  

I thought the idea was basically to avoid it becoming known that there was a strategy other than SP in place until it was too late for our adversaries to do anything about it.

Blogger John Cunningham April 16, 2015 9:10 PM  


Remember, all of those who support quality SFF with actual stories can STILL BUY A SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP to Sasquan for 40 semoleons, which gets one a packet of ebooks of the nominees, probably worth $80 on the market, the right to vote this year, and the right to nominate next year.

the place to register is

https://sasquan.swoc.us/sasquan/reg.php

I think one can still sign up before July 1.


so sign up, read the nominees, AND VOTE!!

Blogger macengr April 16, 2015 9:11 PM  

"Without question."

Good, I was hoping it wouldn't end here. I'd like to see (eventually) a way to take the church back from so-called progressives.

Anonymous Stirner April 16, 2015 9:17 PM  

On the the many attacks on Rabid Puppies is that VoxDay-whiplash somehow "stuffed the ballot box" with his army of griefer minions.

I don't know the specifics of the nomination rules, but the question underlying bob's comment is whether the Registration deadline was the deadline to close the voting pool. Yes, final nominations happened later, but was the pool of voters fully established *prior* to the release of the Rabid Puppies slate?

If that is the case, then every dubious charge of "ballot stuffing" is even more retarded, since the pool of Hugo voters was finalized before release of the Rabid Puppies slate.

Blogger Noah B April 16, 2015 9:21 PM  

"...but was the pool of voters fully established *prior* to the release of the Rabid Puppies slate?"

Yes, it was. Registration closed on Jan. 31 and RP was posted on Feb. 2.

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 9:21 PM  

something else for everyone to consider:
have you LOOKED at the Hugo Guest of Honor list for 2016?

you ... probably should.

Anonymous Industrial Voodoo April 16, 2015 9:37 PM  

Vox, are you disappointed that The Three-Body Problem has been added to the ballot? It'll likely become the grand bargain that moderates from both sides rally behind, and then the chaos will simmer down.

Blogger Danby April 16, 2015 9:40 PM  

""the butt plate leaving a mark." Have you guys ever heard of recoil pads/cushions? Some womenfolk wear them."

The SMLE has a butt pad.

Made of brass.

Like the balls of the British Army

Anonymous hideous April 16, 2015 9:41 PM  

JCW's wife has a post about when to disavow a friend due to conflicting beliefs. The following was a comment regarding that and I laughed much:

From: (Anonymous)
Date: April 16th, 2015 01:14 am (UTC)
Track This
First, they came for Vox Day,

(Link)
There is an old saying that applies here:

First, they came for Vox Day, but I didn't say anything, because he is kind of an asshole. Then later, I still didn't say anything, because he was b***h-slapping them so hard and they were crying and I couldn't stop laughing, so I couldn't have said anything if I wanted, but that's all right, it was pretty funny and all worked out just fine.

The End.

David


(http://arhyalon.livejournal.com/379166.html?thread=3259934#t3259934)

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 9:47 PM  

Vox April 16, 2015 9:04 PM
No, Bob. You're mistaking the end of the REGISTRATION period with the end of the NOMINATION period.




excellent. then my post counts as a Counter-Intelligence op.

*wink*

Blogger Marissa April 16, 2015 9:49 PM  

Larry Correia can launch another zinger at Scalzi: I declined the nomination, Kloos withdrew his, and your novel STILL didn't make the ballot!

Blogger maniacprovost April 16, 2015 9:58 PM  

Did Vox write a novel last year? AMP? I don't think it was nominated by the puppies was it?

Anyway, I'm probably voting for Vox for short fiction editor and Toni for long fiction. Castalia mainly shone in short stuff last year. Who knows, I may change my mind after I look it over, but Vox deserves a Hugo for his impact on the field. I think the snowball has only begun to roll.

Anonymous Steveo April 16, 2015 10:13 PM  

"Welcome to Sasquan, the 2015 Worldcon, the 73rd World Science Fiction Convention, to be held in Spokane, Washington (USA) on August 19-23, 2015. You are now a member of the World Science Fiction Society."


...down with RP in 2015.

Anonymous WowJustWow April 16, 2015 10:14 PM  

T___ K_____'s 2015 Hugo Award Acceptance Speech

Anonymous Harsh April 16, 2015 10:15 PM  

You mean Lock In still didn't get a nom? Heresy!

Anonymous clk April 16, 2015 10:16 PM  

The SMLE has a butt pad.
Made of brass.
Like the balls of the British Army.

My mosin nagant has an iron butt plate like just like the russian resolve ... 7.62x54R... steel core, steel case, berdan... out of a m44 with the short barrel its like a flame thrower...

Anonymous RafterManFMJ April 16, 2015 10:24 PM  

OK, I want in; I've been reading this Epic duel - more of a butchering really - and I'd like to contribute. Is there an instructional post somewhere, a summary as in:

1. Join Sasquan
2. Etc.

Thanks!

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 16, 2015 10:34 PM  

I've shot a Moistened-Naggy-Aunt with a short barrel: muzzle flash even bigger than the damned .303.

Anonymous Not-So-Merry zen0 April 16, 2015 10:36 PM  

WowJustWow April 16, 2015 10:14 PM

T___ K_____'s 2015 Hugo Award Acceptance Speech


When the planes hit the twin towers, a German film crew was following some sewer workers or something in N.Y. and they happened to capture the first plane screaming by directly above and exploding into the first tower. Some one in the background yelled "Holy Shit!"

And that is what I am saying now.

Blogger Bogey April 16, 2015 10:43 PM  

Vox has already said that will never stop. Perhaps they are believers now.

...and plastic awards? That's so ghetto.

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 10:46 PM  

RafterManFMJ April 16, 2015 10:24 PM
Is there an instructional post somewhere, a summary as in:



1 - join Sasquan for $40 before July
2 - receive your nominee packet
3 - read the works in the nominee packet
4 - decide which works you like best of the options provided, rank them all
5 - No Award the fuck out of everyth ... no, wait. that's not right
6 - vote for your favoritist works in the order of their favoritist ... ism?
7 - below the last work that you consider worthy of recognition, write in 'No Award'.

the point of the 'No Award' line is to prevent gobsmackingly stupid shite like "If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love" from despoiling the Hugo heritage and tradition.

IF you don't think that any nominees deserve recognition in one of the particular fields, No Award would go on the top line and you'd just leave the rest of the lines blank.


the 2016 WorldCon will be held in KC, MO and you will also be eligible to *nominate* works for that year from your purchase this year.

TNH and PNH are going to be GoH there ...

Blogger bob k. mando April 16, 2015 10:48 PM  

Bogey April 16, 2015 10:43 PM
Vox has already said that will never stop.




not true.

Vox has said they can apologize and repent any time they want.

of course, offering a SJWhorerior a chance to repent is just a joke. they're never going to take it.

NO YOUR ENEMY. ( also, know your enemy )

Blogger Cee April 16, 2015 10:59 PM  

bob, is the k for "Khârn"?

Interested parties would like to know.

Anonymous You know damn well April 16, 2015 10:59 PM  

You know, Vox, it's neither disinformation nor character assassination to state that you are the most astonishingly petty person I've ever met. You have a reasonably good brain, though it owes more to sheer hyperactivity (they say that needing less than 6 hours of sleep per night is the most unfair advantage a person can have) than any extraordinary processing capacities. You're so wholly ego-driven that you have blind spots the size of Andromeda; a major portion of that precious processing power is given over to rationalization about why Andromeda doesn't exist, isn't relevant, and indeed is without gravity or mass. I suppose this is why you devote such a large proportion of your mental energy toward actions of pure trivial spite, so puerile in their scope and affect that a twelve-year-old would be ashamed to be caught in them. You haven't got the imagination to tackle any labor worthy of the effort. If anyone needs proof that total identification with the ego is a vain and death-driven perspective, you are Exhibit A. When you meet your maker face to face, I truly pity your shame.

Blogger Cee April 16, 2015 11:04 PM  

Doorstopping fantasy novels are now actions of pure trivial spite.

I wish I had enough pure trivial spite to write one.

Blogger Noah B April 16, 2015 11:05 PM  

"T___ K_____'s 2015 Hugo Award Acceptance Speech"

Damn. It would be well worth the trip to Spokane to see him give that speech, eloquently channeling Patton.

Anonymous Culture War Draftee April 16, 2015 11:07 PM  

"The Sword and Sorcery guys are needed to come up with new ways of telling the same basic story, because — let's face it — there aren't a whole lot of fantasy plots left to steal."

That's more or less how I outline my Sword & Sorcery stories

Anonymous Culture War Draftee April 16, 2015 11:14 PM  

Considering how petty the SJWs are, trivial spite is all they are worth.

Blogger Buddy E. April 16, 2015 11:32 PM  

At this point vox owns so much real estate in their little minds that he's but to do little more than whisper 'boo' and their entire shit will explode. Twill be a thing of beauty.

Blogger ray April 16, 2015 11:37 PM  

This is more fun than eating Lucky Charms when I was a kid. Yeah I'm blaming Lucky Charms. I liked Jets too. And Sugar Smacks.


Right from the ramparts. Joyfully. From the tower of their own heights. Full of themselves, maybe they'll bounce.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 16, 2015 11:38 PM  

Well I have been banned from the Dwarf that pays for sex blog. I was going to post something related to his saying "Wasn't I cute?" with an old photo of him.They have a "I stand with Hugo" graphic now to proclaim their victimhood.
I am pretty sure I my "logic of who would be able to afford a $180 fee a conservative/libertarian or someone that votes for more free stuff paid for by productive citizens. Even tranny prostitutes can afford 4 packs of cigs" is what poked him in the eye all the way to the amygdala

"Vox has said they can apologize and repent any time they want.of course, offering a SJWhorerior a chance to repent is just a joke. they're never going to take it."

As long as he doesn't give them the option of licking his boots, they would break away like good little victims of oppression.

Blogger rycamor April 16, 2015 11:39 PM  

It will take a long time, but trust me, if you thought this exploit was even remotely amusing, you're going to love what is coming down the pike in the 2017 timeframe. There are some pieces that still need to come together - the execution is always in the details - but if it works as designed, it will be beyond epic.

"Everything, is falling... into... place."

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 16, 2015 11:45 PM  

"You know damn well You know, Vox, it's ...state that you are the most astonishingly petty person I've ever met"

Vox beats them at their own game using a better version of their own tactics, plotting out how the pettiest of them will react and they cry its not fair. Vox couldn't not have done this so well if he didn't bet on how petty the other side is.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 16, 2015 11:47 PM  

Oh yea forgot this #IStandWithHugo

Anonymous Fp April 16, 2015 11:54 PM  

"Vox beats them at their own game using a better version of their own tactics, plotting out how the pettiest of them will react and they cry its not fair. Vox couldn't not have done this so well if he didn't bet on how petty the other side is."

*claps*

Blogger Edd Jobs April 17, 2015 12:23 AM  

"T___ K_____'s 2015 Hugo Award Acceptance Speech" deserves a Best Related Work nomination for next year's Hugo Awards. Assuming they will still exist.

Blogger Cuca Culpa April 17, 2015 12:26 AM  

I am Vox Day. I am Larry Correia. I am Brad Torgerson. I am Spartacus.

I am GamerGate.

Yep, they tried the 'ol divide et imperia on us too. Didn't seem too work so well. Others keep apologizing for 'harassment' (which our forensics tell us is around 95% self-induced for attention) while I have said all along -- and I was involved even before the Five Guys incident -- bollocks. My view is that 'harassment' has to be inescapable.

It's unreasonable that you should have to change your phone number, or that you should endure unsolicited pizzas and Korans showing up at your house. However technology has power buttons, and if you're so immature or disingenuous (hi Anita!) that you call criticism 'harassment' -- and no, you can't just yell 'strawman' as a safe word to convert said criticism to 'harassment' -- you don't belong online period.

Call Temple Grandin, maybe she can get you a bulk discount on hugboxes. I refuse to be mischaracterized or silenced or (my favourite new SJWism) 'erased.'


Anonymous Daniel April 17, 2015 12:26 AM  

My favorite part is the zen mastery of letting the little critters do about 85%-90% of the work for you - at least in this opening phase. Your plans (and non-plans) are like a disturbance in the Force. It is as if you got a termite infestation to believe that all the other termites are made of wood. That is the tricky part.

The rest takes care of itself.

Anonymous Wyrd April 17, 2015 12:39 AM  

If anyone needs proof that total identification with the ego is a vain and death-driven perspective, you are Exhibit A. When you meet your maker face to face, I truly pity your shame.

Leave SJWs alone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

Blogger Cuca Culpa April 17, 2015 12:48 AM  

You know damn well:

lexluthor40keks.jpg

Anonymous Daniel April 17, 2015 1:00 AM  

I really hope Tom Kratman doesn't win.

I fear for my life if he does.

The human soul can expel only so much laughter before internal organs begin to rupture, you know. And I've already laughed a ton this year. Snort - and some eggheads think we're in a Depression!

I do hope that the long-term plans for the Hugos involve turning over their custodianship to the Scientologists. You just know that McRapey, McCreepy and McWhiney would be signing up for free audits to satisfy the nomination prerequisites...

Blogger Brad Andrews April 17, 2015 1:01 AM  

Is anyone going to the con? I had not planned to do so, but my wife does have family in Seattle and I could be somewhat close if I really wanted.

I could not stand hanging around with most of the SJWs there though.

Anonymous rho April 17, 2015 1:30 AM  

...actions of pure trivial spite...

The first rule of tactical thinking--and logical thinking in general--is to avoid lying to yourself.

For example, it is entirely possible that this has nothing to do with spite, nor is it trivial. In a short period of time, VD has gone from being mocked about getting kicked out of SFWA and coming 6th out of 5 in the last Hugos to being discussed widely, and in both major and minor outlets as some kind of sinister kingmaker. A Kingpin, even.

For a guy running both a book and game publishing house, how is that trivial? How is it spiteful?

I'm not so credulous to think that he planned this out to the last detail, but it sure does look like things broke his way pretty often. VD's either very lucky, or he knew his opponents well enough to take advantage when it presented itself.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that his aggressive stance resonates with others. Quite a few "others," as it happens, and they tend to be focussed. The wolf may sometimes act like your pet dog with a bone, but the wolf also hunts.

Blogger Jordan179 April 17, 2015 1:35 AM  

Why shouldn't Vox take advantage of the stupidity of the SJW's to gain publicity for his own books and publishing house? And how does this hurt anyone not committed to Tor's exclusive control of the Hugos?

Blogger olaf lee April 17, 2015 2:08 AM  

He's not petty or spiteful. To a casual observer that might be what one would think but I have witnessed him schooling professors in their own areas of expertise and its a beautiful site to behold. Dumbfounded they stammer on and on about impertinent jerks who should know their place. Respect they cry....but its not disrespectful to call people on the carpet for feeding half truths and distorted views. Truth be told, he's just that smart and will back up his beliefs with facts. Hate away at the million candle power light shown on the incompetent boobs.

Blogger SirThermite April 17, 2015 2:08 AM  

"out of a m44 with the short barrel its like a flame thrower"

Yup. Best firearm $100 can buy, unless you're in a foreign country where Kalashnikovs are cheap (used to be worth $75 on the international market, or so I have heard). I've seen even experienced rifle shooters jump a little when they hear the M44 bark for the first time. Could pry a door open with that bayonet spike too.

But for the apparent metal fetishists on this site, it does still has a wooden stock... Only non-metallic parts on my Sig with CNC-machined grips are the magazine follower and the tritium sights. It's the Unglock. And it's a badass 9mm too [ducks]

Blogger Noah B April 17, 2015 2:29 AM  

GRRM justifies voting NO AWARD by claiming that there are not Hugo-worthy works on the ballot this year... but he's totally not going to judge those works until he's actually read them.

Blogger Noah B April 17, 2015 2:31 AM  

An excessive muzzle flash is a huge liability.

Blogger SirThermite April 17, 2015 2:33 AM  

Political correctness has a bottomless stomach, and is red in tooth and claw. Even if you try to appease the beast, it will eat you eventually anyway.

Amen!

Blogger bob k. mando April 17, 2015 3:33 AM  

You know damn well April 16, 2015 10:59 PM
I suppose this is why you devote such a large proportion of your mental energy toward actions of pure trivial spite



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-5OABcNfX0&t=1m26s

ah.

so John Scalzi and the SFWA are going to repent of their multi-year trivial spite campaign, apologize to Vox Day for slandering him and taking the side of a lying, racist whore against him and for having expelled him and cancelled his lifetime membership WITHOUT having put said expulsion to a vote before the entire membership?

you know, as was REQUIRED BY LAW?

go on, tell me more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbIR51_J_qY



Cee April 16, 2015 10:59 PM
bob, is the k for "Khârn"?


i've actually never played Warhammer.

however, i cannot vouch that the writers didn't decide to appropriate my name without my knowledge or permission.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiMaOmDtaYI

OpenID joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 3:38 AM  

I have been reading threads on this subject for a while now, and I have two questions I may have missed the answer to.

1. If I pay money to the group that hosts the hugos to get a voting packet, how is this different from donating to an enemy war fund? Even if the hugos self-destruct, can't they just fund other projects I dislike with my money? Like, say, The Mulligan Award or some new award where they give out a plastic statue of a vagina?

2. Presume that I do pony up the money, get the packet, and can read those works I actually care to read. Why shouldn't I just no-vote the slate, and speed the destruction of idol worship at the foot of a foot-ball shaped trophy?

OpenID westfargomusings April 17, 2015 3:39 AM  

As the author of one of the quotes perhaps some clarification is needed.

"After seeing last nights events I really started losing heart." - Seeing Kloos and Bellet resign their nominations because of guilt by association and bullying from the SJW was bad. They didn't seem to do it out of any magnanimous noble gesture.


'I feel a little better today, but it’s just too much pain to deal with over the last month" - the pain I'm referring to has nothing to do with the Hugos. As some of you may know (I'm guessing quite a lot of you, since I've had over 200 hits in the last 24 hours as opposed to my normal 2-3) I've lost my uncle and my dog within the last few weeks. Since that post, more friends and family of friends have been lost. Dealing with this much death in such a short time is something I haven't done since High School. My head is in a bad place right now and I don't like it there.

"It was bad enough when it was Damien Walter, the HuffPo and Daily Kos spreading the disinformation, lies and character assassination" - I expect fecal matter coming from sewers

"but when Davidson, Willis, GRRM, and others that are supposed to be some of the TOP PROFESSIONALS OF THEIR FIELD do it I have a hard time seeing the hope." - I don't expect it from people whose work I've enjoyed over the years. They are supposed to be able to do at least a modicum of research, that all they can do is parrot falsehoods and misrepresentations is disheartening.

"All I can see right now is that Vox wins, no matter what. His slate of nominees win: he wins. The SJWs get enough votes together to burn it down this year with No Award and Vox wins. Worse, if that happens, Vox gets enough followers together next year, and possibly decades afterwards and No Award takes all the categories going forward." - Vox, I'm not a fan of your style. I think your manners are piss poor many times. But, having seen what they direct at you, I won't begrudge you being churlish with them. Being the target of vile drek often necessitates such a response. What the So Fucking What Association did to you was horrendous. Jemison needed to be taken down and it was obvious the SJWs weren't going to step up. I thought your response was over the top, but someone needed to step up.

My views on the Hugo are much more aligned with Brad Torgersen's. I want the Hugos to mean 'the pinnacle of Science Fiction and Fantasy' again. I don't want trade one controlling group for another. You've already demonstrated the ability to get under the skin of the CHORFs and SJWs and live in their heads and haunt their dreams with minimal effort. You have a large enough following you could influence pretty much any popular vote awards out there. I don't want to see No Award this year. And I don't want to see No Award given in perpetuity because of raging blocks of various parties. I want Washington and Adams, not FDR. I want great fiction to win again.

Blogger bob k. mando April 17, 2015 3:45 AM  

you know, this quote would be fantastic on the back of a t-shirt for Sasquan:
"First, they came for Vox Day, but I didn't say anything, because he is kind of an asshole. Then later, I still didn't say anything, because he was bitch-slapping them so hard and they were crying and I couldn't stop laughing, so I couldn't have said anything if I wanted, but that's all right, it was pretty funny and all worked out just fine."

Blogger bob k. mando April 17, 2015 4:00 AM  

joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 3:38 AM
how is this different from donating to an enemy war fund? Even if the hugos self-destruct, can't they just fund other projects I dislike with my money?


while true, you can mollify your conscience by looking at the value you'll get for your money. you're going to spend $40, but you'll get works that would probably have cost you near $80 to buy individually.




joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 3:38 AM
Why shouldn't I just no-vote the slate, and speed the destruction of idol worship at the foot of a foot-ball shaped trophy?


if you want too, you should.

after all, Vox asked for people to consider voting for his recommendations. IF YOU REFUSE TO FOLLOW HIS DIRECTIONS, he can hardly be accused of having robotic, unthinking followers voting for his slate, now can he?



westfargomusings April 17, 2015 3:39 AM
I don't want to see No Award this year.



important things first:
condolences on your losses.

the word of a stranger on the internet cannot mean much, but that's got to be hard.

as to your concern for 2015:
you need to take it up with the SJRetards. we can't stop them from voting No Award.

SP has always said they want you to read ALL of the nominees and vote for what you think best. Vox has said this before himself.

No Award for 2016 is NO CONCERN *if* the SJWhoreriors behave themselves THIS year.

of course, this would probably be the first time in their lives they actually behaved themselves ... so chances are pretty low.

but, BUT, there is a possible answer for that:
vote. vote your conscious as to what is truly the best skiffy this year. perhaps we can give awards to worthy works *in spite of* an SJWhorerior campaign.

after all, a single work only has to get to 50% of the vote before No Award ...

OpenID joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 4:40 AM  

Well I will do as I please. I'm asking for arguments in one direction, to see if there is useful info, or are useful perspectives that I have missed. I am asking to be convinced. Is there some tactical reason not to just nuke it with No Award? Some resource to be extracted from the hugo? Does SJWs seeing an award go to not-them do a better job of demoralization and removal of the threat?

And as for the cost... that seems to assume that a person would buy all of those works. Why would I pay money to read more of what caused me to stop reading and watching most Sci-Fi in the first place? Subtracting the SJW works, and comparing apples to apples (dead tree to dead tree, e-book to e-book), what's the price comparison? Surely it's no longer 40 to 80.

Blogger Jim April 17, 2015 5:33 AM  

"I don't expect it from people whose work I've enjoyed over the years. They are supposed to be able to do at least a modicum of research, that all they can do is parrot falsehoods and misrepresentations is disheartening."

This is your mistake. I always assume the person who created the work I'm enjoying is the incarnation of anathema until proven otherwise. It leads to far more pleasant surprises than shattered illusions.

Blogger RAH April 17, 2015 5:46 AM  

No war survives contact with enemy.
This conflict has woken up m manyon both sides. We will see if the next generation takes their place or not.

Anonymous Darth Toolpodicus April 17, 2015 7:03 AM  

@SirThermite

That is a good way to spend $100, but Noah is right about a big muzzle flash being a liability...and it has a huge muzzle flash.

I appreciate wood on guns, but for stuff I actually use, prefer metal and plastic. Ironically, I use Pachmayr grips on my Glock and my 1911. The Glock grip sucks without it.

Blogger sysadmn April 17, 2015 8:13 AM  

you're going to love what is coming down the pike in the 2017 timeframe.

100 ilk at the 2016 Worldcon Business meeting, and 200 at the 2017, and we rename the Hugos the Vox Day Award for Excellence in F/SF, popularly known as the Voxies.

Blogger sysadmn April 17, 2015 8:15 AM  

you're going to love what is coming down the pike in the 2017 timeframe.

100 ilk at the 2016 Worldcon Business meeting, and 200 at the 2017, and we rename the Hugos the Vox Day Award for Excellence in F/SF, popularly known as the Voxies.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 17, 2015 8:34 AM  

100 ilk at the 2016 Worldcon Business meeting, and 200 at the 2017, and we rename the Hugos the Vox Day Award for Excellence in F/SF, popularly known as the Voxies.

Why would WE love that? Vox claims to be a sigma, not an alpha. If so, he's not looking for groupies, or getting his name plastered on all kinds of legacy goods.

Blogger CM April 17, 2015 8:37 AM  

I am asking to be convinced. Is there some tactical reason not to just nuke it with No Award? Some resource to be extracted from the hugo? Does SJWs seeing an award go to not-them do a better job of demoralization and removal of the threat?

The strategy, from what I've read, is to have the Hugos stand for great works in science fiction and fantasy like it used to.

VD isn't going to go all "no award" on their asses til they do it first. If the Hugos die, then let the Cult of Hugo strike the first blow, proving to everyone that THEY were the ones politicizing it from the beginning.

Essentially, SP and RP are trying to resuscitate Sf/f for used to be fans like you - assuming what you say is true, but i have a hard time believing that if you refer to a book as a dead tree :p

Anonymous Alexander April 17, 2015 9:15 AM  

The Hugo money cannot fund the Mulligans. The Hugo money cannot fund vagina trophies. Not without two consecutive years' business meetings voting to do so.

Blogger Noah B April 17, 2015 10:18 AM  

"I appreciate wood on guns, but for stuff I actually use, prefer metal and plastic."

If you're going for aesthetic beauty, there's nothing like ornately decorated wood furniture and leather holsters. Unfortunately, both of these materials cause a lot of problems on and around firearms and are best avoided if utility is the overriding concern.

Anonymous Ashterah April 17, 2015 10:20 AM  

Next week I will be paying my Sasquan membership and look forward to actually READING SOME DAMN FINE SCIFI in order to make my choice. And then to broaden my selection for next year's nominations.

Call me a Sad Puppy or a Rabid Puppy, I don't care which. Burning down the SJW's? That will bring me to the table all. Day. Long. I've been railing about them for years but never felt I could do anything because "one lone voice in the wilderness." Not any more.

Blogger bob k. mando April 17, 2015 11:14 AM  

joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 4:40 AM
Is there some tactical reason not to just nuke it with No Award? Some resource to be extracted from the hugo? Does SJWs seeing an award go to not-them do a better job of demoralization and removal of the threat?



seriously?

have you not been paying attention to all the sweet, sweet tears of unfathomable sadness? just in the last week?

THEY are telling YOU what outcome they most fear: even more than a work being awarded to a non-Leftist, losing control over 'who decides' the award terrifies them even more.

that's why THEY are talking about nuking the awards, rather than allow a SP candidate to win. even though SP candidates include women and authors of the Left.


joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 4:40 AM
Why would I pay money to read more of what caused me to stop reading and watching most Sci-Fi in the first place? Subtracting the SJW works, and comparing apples to apples (dead tree to dead tree, e-book to e-book), what's the price comparison? Surely it's no longer 40 to 80.



in previous years, this assessment would be correct.

IN PREVIOUS YEARS.

yes, sure, at least three of the possible best novel nominees have been withdrawn. but SP still swept several of the categories and have dominant majorities in all but one or two of no consequence.

but you're still getting a bunch of novellas, novellettes and short stories that met the approval of hatecrimebadthinkers like Nate, Vox, LC and Torgerson.

heck, there's enough JC Wright still on the ballot that that alone almost makes it worth the price.

Blogger Marissa April 17, 2015 11:16 AM  

Next week I will be paying my Sasquan membership and look forward to actually READING SOME DAMN FINE SCIFI in order to make my choice. And then to broaden my selection for next year's nominations.

I've started reading the nominees for this year but your last sentence makes a good point. We need to keep an eye out for what's been released (or will be) this year, so people know what's out there to read and nominate for next year. Once I'm done with this year's packet (which hasn't come out yet -- I'm reading stuff I bought from Castalia House) -- I'm going to check out 2015 releases to see what's good. SciPhi Journal is first on my list!

Anonymous Rufus April 17, 2015 11:34 AM  

an elite wargamer who specializes in one of the most complex wargames ever developed

Dear Ilk,

Which game does Vox mean here? Thanks.

Blogger Feather Blade April 17, 2015 11:35 AM  

Why shouldn't I just no-vote the slate
Is there some tactical reason not to just nuke it with No Award?


Because it's too early for that.

The "No Award All The Things!" tactic is something that the SJWs suggested first. They would rather destroy the award than see it given to people they don't like. Normal people see this as the unreasonable and petty action that it is. Therefore, in order to (further) demonstrate to the undecided exactly how unreasonable, petty and morally bankrupt they are, the SJWs must be allowed to hang themselves with the No Award rope that they have woven for themselves.

So, If the Puppies (of both slates) and the undecided vote honestly (i.e. on the merits of the work), and the SJWs vote no award, one of two things will happen:

1) No award wins, proving that the SJWs are more numerous and powerful than the puppies. They also end up looking petty and spiteful. Bloc-voting No Award is established as a legitimate tactic for manipulating the Hugo Award process. Society at large turns away in disgust.

2) Actual awards win, proving that the SJWs are a small, weak and ineffectual group. SJW power is broken, heartening those who oppose the grey-goo-ing of society.

So... This year, the best thing is to vote honestly. Consider that the SJWs, by publicly agitating for No Award, are trying to manipulate you into preemptively nuking the awards so that they can vote honestly, and say that the No Award was the Puppies' intent all along.

Let them No Award everything first. You can always follow their lead and No award next year.

Anonymous Noah Ward April 17, 2015 12:05 PM  

Don't vote for me this year. Next year? We'll see.

Blogger Marissa April 17, 2015 12:36 PM  

I'm not sure No Award will work this year because I don't think they have the numbers to do it.

Blogger bob k. mando April 17, 2015 12:48 PM  

Rufus April 17, 2015 11:34 AM
Which game does Vox mean here?


ASL ( Advanced Squad Leader ) and it's derivatives.

Blogger Buddy E. April 17, 2015 1:47 PM  

At this point vox owns so much real estate in their little minds that he's but to do little more than whisper 'boo' and their entire shit will explode. Twill be a thing of beauty.

OpenID joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 5:36 PM  

I was going to post all at once to avoid spamming the comments, but that's disallowed. Breaking it up.


CM April 17, 2015 8:37 AM

The strategy, from what I've read, is to have the Hugos stand for great works in science fiction and fantasy like it used to.

VD isn't going to go all "no award" on their asses til they do it first. If the Hugos die, then let the Cult of Hugo strike the first blow, proving to everyone that THEY were the ones politicizing it from the beginning.

Essentially, SP and RP are trying to resuscitate Sf/f for used to be fans like you - assuming what you say is true, but i have a hard time believing that if you refer to a book as a dead tree :p


How would you prefer I refer to a class of medium including paperbacks, hardback, magazine, loose-leef packets, etc, when comparing it to a medium made up of ones and zeros, which also includes the word "book"? It's a pre-existing term I use for the collection of paper (and paper-covered-in-who-knows-what) mediums, because it's fun to say.

Of course I wouldn't use the term around tree-beard. A wizard should know better. :P

-----

Aaaanyway. I don't recall ever looking at a book and deciding to read it, or not, based on how acclaimed the author was, or what awards it won. I recall my mom trying to convince me on those ground, but as long as I've been alive, awards have more often gone to books I dislike than ones I liked, or ones that I liked, but for all the wrong reasons.

My Side of the Mountain, for example, probably got an award, not for it's merit, but for the fact that the kid worshiped an environmentalist like he was Jesus, and prayed to a tree.

And I doubt that the story that had Kirk's nefew beat the Kobiashi Maru (without cheating), through real-world knowledge, and sacrificing his own life, then leave starfleet to marry a Klingon and be an Ambassador to the Klingon empire got an award for anything.

Nor do I see any award notifications on my copies of the X-wing serries, or Jedi Academy.


The first time I ever heard of the hugo, it was on the front page of "Girl Geniuses" about the time the comic went to pot. The last thing in that comic I recall enjoying was the giant awesome hat given to one of the sparks by a Jagger, and their commentary on how the jaggers were actually showing the spark great honor by giving him that hat. Both a commentary on differing cultural customs and a moment of hilarity.

So I don't see how "retaking" the hugos will do anything for me as a fan. I'll still probably continue to read works that people recommended specifically to me because of what they know of my tastes.

But then, as seems to be established wherever I go "you are very non-standard".

OpenID joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 5:40 PM  

bob k. mando April 17, 2015 11:14 AM

Alexander April 17, 2015 9:15 AM
The Hugo money cannot fund the Mulligans. The Hugo money cannot fund vagina trophies. Not without two consecutive years' business meetings voting to do so.


This is good to know. Are folks confident that any money spent in this cycle will be spent by then on, say, cons and such? If so, that removes some discomfort about where the money would go.


bob k. mando April 17, 2015 11:14 AM
seriously?

have you not been paying attention to all the sweet, sweet tears of unfathomable sadness? just in the last week?

THEY are telling YOU what outcome they most fear: even more than a work being awarded to a non-Leftist, losing control over 'who decides' the award terrifies them even more.

that's why THEY are talking about nuking the awards, rather than allow a SP candidate to win. even though SP candidates include women and authors of the Left.


Hmm. Supporting your perspective, Obama routinely delays the individual mandate, but does not want to allow the congress to actually codify that action and make it legal.

So I do find "no, I have to be the one that decides what we get. Even if you'd choose exactly what I wanted!" is fairly credible. Very well, I am convinced on this point. Thank you.

OpenID joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 5:41 PM  

bob k. mando April 17, 2015 11:14 AM

in previous years, this assessment would be correct.

IN PREVIOUS YEARS.

yes, sure, at least three of the possible best novel nominees have been withdrawn. but SP still swept several of the categories and have dominant majorities in all but one or two of no consequence.

but you're still getting a bunch of novellas, novellettes and short stories that met the approval of hatecrimebadthinkers like Nate, Vox, LC and Torgerson.

heck, there's enough JC Wright still on the ballot that that alone almost makes it worth the price.


I still think I would want to see a total savings of at least $40 on the items I'd want to buy, to counter-balance giving $40 to an enemy war-chest... unless people are proposing that seizing the awards will also somehow sieze control over the enemy warchest itself.

OpenID joshtheaspie April 17, 2015 5:43 PM  

bob k. mando April 17, 2015 11:14 AM
Consider that the SJWs, by publicly agitating for No Award, are trying to manipulate you into preemptively nuking the awards so that they can vote honestly, and say that the No Award was the Puppies' intent all along.

Let them No Award everything first. You can always follow their lead and No award next year.


Very good point. Thank you. Together with other arguments presented, I am now convinced that between voting no-vote, and voting on the merits, voting on the merits is the superior choice.

I am still leery about funding my enemy, unless the funding is a gambit that allows capture of an enemy warchest, or I can be sure that the money will be tactically squandered.

Blogger Danby April 17, 2015 11:18 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Danby April 17, 2015 11:19 PM  

Why would WE love that? Vox claims to be a sigma, not an alpha. If so, he's not looking for groupies, or getting his name plastered on all kinds of legacy goods.

Who care what Vox wants? It would be fun to watch them crying and shaking in actual physical terror.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts