Thursday, April 30, 2015

Puppy Precedent

WorldCon historian Mike Glyer digs out some longtime precedent for not only campaigning, but bloc votes. And it's actually from the Philcon II committee itself!
There is still time to (a) do a little campaigning to line up a solid bloc of votes for your favorites, (b) get some members---every membership is a potential vote for your favorites, and (c) get your own votes in before our August 25th postmark deadline. In the categories of outstanding FAN MAGAZINE, COVER PAINTING, INTERIOR ILLUSTRATION and SHORT STORY OR NOVELETTE the field is wide open, with no front-runners yet. So far, Bestor's Demolished Man is leading in the NOVEL class, with Bob Tucker's Long Loud Silence in second place. Most votes for favorite FAN are divided between old-timer Forrest J. Ackerman and new-timer Harlon Ellison. Galaxy is just edging Astounding as favorite PRO MAGAZINE.
He's got the scan of the page from the August 1953 Progress Report at File 770. No doubt Larry, Brad, and I can all expect fulsome apologies from our various accusers for all of the false charges of violating the spirit of the law and gamesmanship that have been levied at us.



Blogger Salt April 30, 2015 5:34 PM  

You'll hear something like, "You didn't know that when you did what you did so you still violated the spirit we all go by now." It'll still be, Disqualify! and Disavow!

It'll be fun watching them spin it.

Anonymous joe doakes April 30, 2015 5:40 PM  

Hey, SJWs promised me Rabid Puppies were pioneering trailblazers, breaking new ground with their fancy slate of candidates, not slouching along behind some tired tradition as old as my Pops. I wuz robbed! They ALWAYS lie, those, those . . . liars!

Blogger Noah B April 30, 2015 5:42 PM  

"Yeah but it was different when we did it!"

Anonymous Lulabelle (68) April 30, 2015 5:44 PM  

Every few days, Puppygate reaches a new plateau of entertainment value. It's amazing!

Blogger Daniel April 30, 2015 6:07 PM  

SJWs thought Hugos were awarded by the Socialist Fairy whenever they hid a truth under their pillow at night.

Blogger Daniel April 30, 2015 6:10 PM  

Oh, and you can find the evidence of this stuff pretty much anywhere you look. The first year I picked to look at for the post at CH overturned at least three SJW lies about the Hugos: that campaigns were prohibited/screened for by the Hugo committee, that slates were never forwarded, and that no one had ever "gotten" all of their nominees onto the final ballot.

Blogger Migly April 30, 2015 6:16 PM  

Daniel: Consider it a gift. I found it because you have been misusing the evidence on the NESFA recommendaton site to project an intent onto it that fits your predetermined narrative.

I guess you won't have to project anything onto this quote!

Blogger Daniel April 30, 2015 6:22 PM  

That is not true, Migly. I have not only represented the info fairly, but I credit NEFSA for keeping the lists public. Anyone is free to point out precisely how I have misused the original lists by telling people relevant measurements on them.

Blogger Daniel April 30, 2015 6:26 PM  

Furthermore, I projected exactly zero intent to the recommenders. I haven't a clue what their intent was, and don't care. I simply pointed out that the lists demonstrate that there is nothing unprecedented about the 2015 lists, at least not in the narrow categories I defined.

Anonymous Curious but not an SJW April 30, 2015 6:26 PM  

And in November 1953, the French Foreign Legion parachuted into Dien Bien Phu. Is that a coincidence or what?

Blogger Bogey April 30, 2015 6:35 PM  

Maybe they can retro-disqualify him during the retro-Hugos.

Blogger Bogey April 30, 2015 6:37 PM  

...are they doing those this year?

Blogger Russell April 30, 2015 6:41 PM  

Ah crap, Vox has a time machine.

Blogger Daniel April 30, 2015 6:58 PM  

Ah crap, Vox has a time machine.

I believe the exact phrase is in Hans Gruber's voice: "Ho. Ho. Ho. Now I have a time machine."

Blogger eharmonica April 30, 2015 7:33 PM  

No Retro Hugos this year.
Man, oh man, would that have been fun!

Blogger GK Chesterton April 30, 2015 7:37 PM  

""Yeah but it was different when we did it!""

I imagine they'll spin this as the conservatives (which I _think_ they were, Daniel???) were in charge in this period.

Blogger Danby April 30, 2015 8:17 PM  

Wht's obvious is that hey're entusastic about getting more people involved, more voters to vote and a bigger slice of fandom. Not even on their list was the idea that some people were unworthy of participating.

Blogger automatthew 0062 April 30, 2015 8:23 PM  

Do we know when the Hugo nominators' reading packets are coming?

Blogger Daniel April 30, 2015 8:27 PM  

That's the thing I don't think you (Migly) understand: that I have zero animosity toward the NESFA recommendation list process or those who recommended works. I don't care what their intentions were, and I don't think anything they did was wrong or even against the spirit of the Awards.

I also happen to think that what they did was in no material way different than Sad Puppies. The only difference with Rabid Puppies was one that I can think of, and that component wasn't something I was looking at.

NESFA was correct in their process in this way. Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies were too. If anything is misrepresented, check the source: NESFA makes it very clear that it is an amalgamation of personal lists, and one (and only one) of those personal lists recommended all the Final ballot membership.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2015 9:36 PM  

>Do we know when the Hugo nominators' reading packets are coming?

Late May, from the email we received.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2015 9:38 PM  

> Ah crap, Vox has a time machine.

What part of Internet Super-Intelligence didn't register? :)

Anonymous zen0 April 30, 2015 9:53 PM  

Puppies empowered more SF/F fans in the genre. Empowerment is a shibboleth of the SJWs. This should be all good for the genre. Anybody with a half-assed sense of marketing would embrace this movement.

Socialist SJWs, with their central planning mindset, are constantly trapped in contradictions, the very thing that Marxists said would bring an end to capitalism.

PC ideologues actually channel Victorian values.. The details may be different, but the process is the same. Conformity of fashion. The facade IS the ideology.

Anonymous Laz April 30, 2015 11:01 PM  

OT: Looks like Channing Tatum and hollywood are set to slaughter another good book.

Anonymous Scintan April 30, 2015 11:15 PM  

This is great news! Now we can be sure that all those in the allegedly non-existent lefty groups will accept that slates are, indeed, legitimate, and this mean and nasty fight will end. No Award is no longer an issue, and the current nominees are all going to get a fair shake.

It's about fairness for these people, after all, right?

Blogger IM2L844 May 01, 2015 12:39 AM  

Anybody with a half-assed sense of marketing would embrace this movement.

Yeah, "Flaccid Puppies" isn't taken.

Anonymous joe doakes May 01, 2015 7:56 AM  

SJWs have been horrified at slates and Puppies have justified them as "You Did It First" but not on the inherent goodness of slates. Not clear why. Let me offer an alternative justification.

I'm just one guy, I have a day job, I have a limited entertainment budget; but I'm somehow supposed to buy and read every SF/F novel published this entire year, so I can make my own, personal, independent judgment what to nominate for Hugo? Nonsense. I ration my purchases, guided by clues such as Award Winner, or Best Seller, or yes, interesting cover art.

And I consider the opinions of people whose opinions I respect. If Larry Correia book bombs a novel, I'm likely to be interested; if Oprah does it, I'm pretty sure I'll pass. That's one of the benefits of reading established SF/F writers' blogs: they introduce new authors and plug their books which gives me another clue what to read.

When Brad solicits recommendations, then winnows them down to a slate, and some of those works also appear on Vox's slate, I'm feeling pretty confident that these are the works I want to see nominated for Hugo. I may not have read all the books on the slate. But I'm willing to trust the slate authors' judgment in this, because I know their judgment has been proven sound in the past.

Slates are good because they give ordinary fans a chance to delegate some of the work. Larry, Brad and Vox already waded through the crap so I don't have to. They skimmed the cream, they separated the chaff, they --pick your own metaphor -- which allows me to focus on the stuff I'm likely to like. Slates enable me to buy SF/F that I enjoy, which makes me more likely to keep buying SF/F in the future, which helps the industry. Slates help get good stories nominated, which means new SF/F readers looking for clues like Award Winner will be steered in a helpful direction so they keep buying SF/F in the future, which helps the industry.

Slates are good. We should say so.

Blogger Marissa May 01, 2015 10:51 AM  

The SJWs hate slates now because they're a sign that a huge percentage of fandom is not behind them. SJWs basically hate a lot of fandom.

Anonymous ticticboom May 01, 2015 2:45 PM  


I barely got through The Forever War, put it down, and never picked it or anything else by Haldeman again. And I'm a hardcore Space Opera/Military Sci-Fi fan.

Hell, what stopped me from picking up Old Man's War was someone saying something along the lines that while most thought McRapey was cribbing from Heinlein, he was really incompetently copying Haldeman and it came out better than it should have. That even more than his vile online presence kept me from reading him.

Blogger IM2L844 May 01, 2015 2:50 PM  

Slates are good. We should say so.

Well put, Joe. As I said days ago, there is nothing nefarious going on here.

The SJWs are just pissed because it was so brazenly anti-SJW and not couched in faux altruistic bullshit aimed at soothing the delicate sensibilities of those pseudo protected classes accustom to having a plethora of white knights at the ready to champion their pet ideologies.

Screw 'em. I don't care.

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