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Tuesday, April 14, 2015

The International Lord of Hate fisks GRRM

The results are pretty much as you'd imagine:
MARTIN : Scalzi — look, I know Scalzi is liberal, and I know that the Puppies seem to hate him, though I can’t for the life of me understand why — but whatever you think of the writer’s politics, REDSHIRTS is a light, fun, amusing SF adventure, an affectionate riff off of STAR TREK, Ghu help us
 
CORREIA: No, I think he’s a fine of working a popularity contest. Redshirts was a light read, but I’m on record already disagreeing about amusing or fun and leave it at that. As for not understanding how my side could possibly dislike this man, here is him being gracious in victory the night last year’s final Hugo awards were announced: 

John Scalzi @scalzi
I’m not going to lie. I’m going to be THRILLED to snarkread the whiny “I didn’t want it anyway” nonsense that will squirt forth tomorrow.
John Scalzi @scalzi
WE ARE GOING TO MAKE THE HUGO SLATE A REFERENDUM ON THE FUTURE OF SCIENCE FICTION (loses) THE HUGOS DON’T MATTER ANYWAY
John Scalzi @scalzi
SHUT UP I AM NOT CRYING IT’S THAT LITTLE FLECKS OF GUNPOWDER FELL INTO MY EYEBALLS SOMEONE GET ME A FLAMING SWORD SO I CAN FLICK THEM OUT
John Scalzi @scalzi
WHO IS CALLING ME PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE I AM ALL AGGRESSIVE DON’T YOU SEE THIS HUGE GUN I HAVE WITH ME AT ALL TIMES (breaks down, sobbing)
John Scalzi @scalzi
AND NOW I WILL IGNORE THE HUGOS AGAIN UNTIL NEXT YEAR WHEN MY FEELINGS OF PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE INADEQUACY ANGRILY WELL UP ONCE MORE
John Scalzi @scalzi
I’VE LEARNED MY LESSON AND MY LESSON IS THAT WE DIDN’T HAVE ENOUGH PATENT RACIST SHITBAGGERY ON OUR SLATE WHAT THAT WAS GOOD WRITING MAN
John Scalzi @scalzi
ITS PROOF THAT ALL THE FEMINISTS NEED TO DO TO WIN AWARDS IS WRITE BETTER STORIES ACCORDING TO THE JUDGEMENT OF THE FANS SHEEESH
John Scalzi @scalzi
I NEVER WANTED THE AWARD THAT’S WHY I’VE WHINED LIKE A KICKED DOG ABOUT IT FOR A COUPLE YEARS RUNNING.

Simply can’t imagine why my side doesn’t care for him… But anyways, we’ve got plenty more examples of him being classy if you’d like them.

MARTIN: I try to assist other authors (and artists, and filmmakers, and fan writers) as well, by recommending their works on my Not A Blog. Sometimes it works. More often it does not. If you do the same thing, I doubt anyone will have a problem with it.

CORREIA: They sure minded when I did that last year.

MARTIN: The backlash you are getting now is because you went way beyond that. Yes, all completely legal… but your campaign, your slate tactics, did not just get some authors you overlooked onto the ballot, it pretty much drove everyone else off the ballot. In the three short fiction categories, there are no choices but your choices (well, yours, and Brad Torgersen’s, and Vox Day’s). You say you just wanted a seat at the table. But you kicked over the table, and took ALL the seats.

CORREIA: So we obeyed all the rules, but violated the secret gentleman’s agreement you guys had in place. You know that we didn’t expect to sweep the categories. Some of the categories that were swept weren’t even because of Sad Puppies, but by Vox Day’s separate campaign that I had absolutely zero control over.

MARTIN: Your public platform was all about restoring “quality” to the Hugos, and yet one of your standard bearers was the worst piece of writing on the ballot. (In my opinion, of course. All of this is opinion).

CORREIA: So, I let something you don’t like get onto the ballot, and that destroys every other work on the ballot, and it also destroys every other work on the ballot the next year, and I’m assuming it destroys every work on the ballot forever. Those are some harsh double standards you’ve got there.

But it doesn’t really matter, because Vox is off doing his own thing. You tried to shun a man who is incapable of being shunned. He got kicked out of the market, so went and built his own market. The more you go after him, the stronger he gets. I don’t think you guys realize that most of me and Brad’s communication with Vox consists of us asking him to be nice and not burn it all down out of spite.
That's almost entirely true. Brad and Larry understood that the Dread Ilk are formidable even as the other side was pretending that my readership is nothing but me and my imaginary wife. Although it isn't spite that tempts me to burn it all down so much as my sheer love of chaos. Chaos always favors the fast-thinking and tactically nimble. My favorite quote from Larry was this: "I nominated Vox Day because Satan didn’t have any eligible works that period."

Now, I know some of you are annoyed that Larry and Brad are not responding to the attacks of George Martin and other SJWs by publicly swearing blood brotherhood with me. Don't be. They live in that community and have to find a way to abide them. We don't. Larry and Brad are not my pack, the Dread Ilk and the Rabid Puppies are. Science fiction fandom is not my family, #GamerGate is.

They are allies. But they are not responsible for me and they have no control over me. That's really all they are pointing out to the other side. Of course they don't agree with me on everything, no one here does either.

One more thing. Larry also understands exactly what I am doing. This is only the beginning. We have laid the foundations for a towering structure that will one day loom over their gates and leave their walled gardens in its shadow. They don't need to worry about us burning down their little tor. They need to worry that we won't even see any reason to bother.

Labels: ,

290 Comments:

1 – 200 of 290 Newer› Newest»
Blogger JP April 14, 2015 12:04 PM  

Martin can be grateful it wasn't a fisting.

Blogger Jourdan April 14, 2015 12:07 PM  

Two quick comments:

First, I admire greatly what VD has done here. It should stand as a model to everyone on the Right: don't compromise with Leftists, don't expect reason from the enemy, build your own organizations, companies and institutions, and smash them.

Second, with regard to Martin, I understand that as a popular fantasy author, and the author behind an HBO series with top-notch acting and money-is-no-object production quality, that he is important. However, I do not think we should for a moment afford him any status due to that success as a non-SJW. His works, including the HBO derivitive work, is a very talented man's take on the standard, boring "transgressive" tactic used by leftists to discredit everything of beauty and value. His books are horrifically empty of anything remotely close to either beauty or heroism and he shows every sign of not even compreheding what those values are. It is in *that* sense that HBO and other leftist media holds him up; he is indeed an artist in tune with his times. Boring, degrading, hopeless.

Anonymous Porky April 14, 2015 12:07 PM  

Of course they don't agree with me on everything, no one here does either.

Except for Bob K. Mando.

Anonymous Susan April 14, 2015 12:07 PM  

I have not had so much fun reading a blog since the dead horse of the Asian persuasion was going on. Now that was some fine amusement.

Anonymous Leonidas April 14, 2015 12:07 PM  

They need to worry that we won't even see any reason to bother.

I, for one, stopped seeing any reason to bother when I realized just how few votes were needed for a Hugo nomination prior to Sad Puppies. Really. the PNH and TNH could get nominations for less than 50 votes?

They're not even good at rigging the system. I could drum up 50 votes if I put my mind into it. Granted, unlike you, Vox, I'd almost certainly have to pay the membership fee for 90% of them. But that's only $2000 - within my means if I decided it was worth it (it's decidedly not). And yet the numbers also make it very obvious that they're gaming the system.

The system is gamed, and yet this is the best that the biggest and best publishing house can do?

There is absolutely nothing that they offer that any of us needs. Nothing. And they pose no threat. These guys don't even rise to the level of "gifted amateur."

Anonymous totenhenchen April 14, 2015 12:08 PM  

Indifference stings far worse than hatred.

Anonymous Leonidas April 14, 2015 12:09 PM  

I have not had so much fun reading a blog since the dead horse of the Asian persuasion was going on. Now that was some fine amusement.

When the nominations were made, I told my wife that this was the best value I've gotten for $40 of my entertainment budget in a long time.

This morning I upped the ante: this may well be the best $40 I've ever spent on anything.

Anonymous Wiccapundit April 14, 2015 12:12 PM  

"They don't need to worry about us burning down their little tor. They need to worry that we won't even see any reason to bother."

The best revenge is massive success. - Frank Sinatra

Anonymous Rivers of Blood April 14, 2015 12:14 PM  

The more you go after him, the stronger he gets.

This is very important for Western Whites to understand.
It is broadly and specifically and historically and spiritually applicable.
No one has been "gone after" more in the last 50 years than white men. White women as well, but they don't understand how. They believe they've been empowered.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 14, 2015 12:17 PM  

I'm disappointed he wasn't called out for challenging you to a debate and then running away.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 12:19 PM  

Second, with regard to Martin, I understand that as a popular fantasy author, and the author behind an HBO series with top-notch acting and money-is-no-object production quality, that he is important. However, I do not think we should for a moment afford him any status due to that success as a non-SJW. His works, including the HBO derivitive work, is a very talented man's take on the standard, boring "transgressive" tactic used by leftists to discredit everything of beauty and value. His books are horrifically empty of anything remotely close to either beauty or heroism and he shows every sign of not even compreheding what those values are. It is in *that* sense that HBO and other leftist media holds him up; he is indeed an artist in tune with his times. Boring, degrading, hopeless.

It's clear that he doesn't merit it. He is talented, but like the poor fool in the parable who was only given one talent, he's squandered it, demeaned it, and made it generally worthless. The man has no integrity, no honesty, no honor.

And although I had little respect for him before, I have none left after seeing him "in action" over the last few days.

Blogger Jourdan April 14, 2015 12:22 PM  

Yes, Joshua, but a talented man with no integrity, honesty or honor is indeed the perfect artist to acclaim in this age, is he not?

Blogger Student in Blue April 14, 2015 12:23 PM  

Except for Bob K. Mando.

I disagree with your disagreement about disagreement.

Anonymous dh April 14, 2015 12:23 PM  

The worst part about GRRM martin is that he, like Scalzi, is literally the enemy of the new SF/F authors who want to radically remake the genre into a literary category full of feminist, leftist, revisionist speculative works, light on the science heavy on the fiction and bodice ripping.

NK Jemisin's take on GRRM is exactly what the left thinks of them. Entitled, beardy, old, white guys. The enemy.

It has already started. There will be no new GRRM's made if the SJW's get their way. He will be GRRM, last of his name.

Blogger sysadmn April 14, 2015 12:27 PM  

@Leonidas: Really. the PNH and TNH could get nominations for less than 50 votes?

That was my reaction as well. These are the most influential editors in fandom, and their bloc is at most 50 people?

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 12:28 PM  

He's the perfect artist to stand in as a surrogate for the entire spirit of the age, at least. I'll grant him that, at least.

There's only so much room for that kind of stuff in the marketplace, though. It's not surprising to me that there are--what, maybe half a dozen or so of this so-called "grimdark" fantasy authors who can make a decent living at it? The potential market is much bigger than that.

Blogger The Original Hermit April 14, 2015 12:29 PM  

I get that Larry has to live in that world, but in some ways it seemed way to tame, especially for him. (Paraphrasing) "some people way back said some things, but I don't remember exactly what they were". Maybe it's because he's already said his piece and doesn't feel like repeating ad infinitum.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 12:31 PM  

I think Larry is being way too generous with GRRM out of deference to his status, I suspect. He clearly doesn't deserve it, regardless of what you think of SP vs. RP.

Blogger JDC April 14, 2015 12:33 PM  

But it doesn’t really matter, because Vox is off doing his own thing. You tried to shun a man who is incapable of being shunned.

This resolute fact shines like a beacon, casting the SJW's off into the darkness, screeching and pining for their lost influence. I never tire of hearing of those who would shun the unshunnable. That could be the title of Vox's biography - The Unshunnable.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 12:34 PM  

"I get that Larry has to live in that world, but in some ways it seemed way to tame, especially for him."

Larry's tired. He has a thick skin but you can tell this has taken a lot out of him. Ultimately Larry is a nice guy with a big ol' heart. There was always going to be a high cost for what he was doing... and he's paid it.

It sounds to me like he's tired of paying it now. He's made his point and he just wants to go back to writing.

Larry isn't Vox.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 12:36 PM  

Vox
Of course they don't agree with me on everything, no one here does either.


Porky April 14, 2015 12:07 PM
Except for Bob K. Mando.



Vox April 11, 2015 9:57 PM
But moreover, Bob's position is simply wrong.

VD April 11, 2015 5:25 PM
The day I need your help with either strategy or tactics, they can pull the plug. Your reasoning is based on false assumptions. We will not win if they don't answer. They won't answer and no one will care. You don't even understand what the battleground is.




who bitch this is?

Blogger Student in Blue April 14, 2015 12:36 PM  

I enjoyed Brad Torgerson's quote in relation to this whole thing:

"I beat this analogy to death, but it’s the best one I’ve got. Trying to explain to a liberal that there is liberal bias in a think — such as the publishing industry, or the Hugo awards in particular — is like trying to explain to a fish that the water is wet."

George Martin is the fish, and not only is he not understanding that water is wet, he doesn't quite understand how it could possibly drown people, despite other vindictive fishes' attempts at stopping up his gills.

Blogger AmyJ April 14, 2015 12:40 PM  

Frankly, George needs to look to his own house. His people are straight up buying votes. Yet he hasn't said a word about it.

Blogger Vox April 14, 2015 12:41 PM  

who bitch this is?

(laughs)

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 12:45 PM  

oh, and since i never bothered replying to Vox:
1 - i never said, "Don't answer them."
2 - i never said, "Don't answer them with the Amazon rating metric."

i'm questioning the tempo and initiative of the operation.

Vox claims that "They won't answer and no one will care."

only problem being, THEY ALREADY ARE ANSWERING. what the fuck is GeRM doing? what is TNH doing? what is EW doing?

and the more they answer, the stupider and more venal they look.

can you imagine how stupid they would look if *THEY* had suggested Amazon / Goodreads rankings as a metric? and THEN Vox had busted out all over them with the research?

because, you know, that's exactly the kind of thing Gamma Rabbits are prone to do; throw something out there without thinking the implications through or researching the publicly available historical data as a sop to get the 'Other' off of their backs.

hory shit, Batman, their entrails would be splattered all over the ceiling.

Anonymous WaterBoy April 14, 2015 12:46 PM  

Susan: "I have not had so much fun reading a blog since the dead horse of the Asian persuasion was going on."

Sssshhhhh. The horse has a name...and if you say it...Jinvasion...three times, it will make another appearance.

And no sane person wishes for that.

Blogger Jim Bro April 14, 2015 12:50 PM  

Has anyone seen that this chick is offering "scholarships" to WorldCon? maryrobinettekowal.com

She's far left, but says it's about getting more people to participate, not boosting her side's numbers. Could be worth a shot for those who are short on money.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 12:51 PM  

"hory shit, Batman, their entrails would be splattered all over the ceiling."

It would have been interesting to see it go down that way, but the end result wouldn't have been much different.

1) SJWs suggest Amazon ratings as metric
2) Vox demonstrates that RP nominees have superior ratings to previous Tor nominees
3) SJWs claim we manipulated ratings and are very bad people who can't be engaged in debate because of our evilness

Same end result: SJWs lie.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 12:53 PM  

Their entrails are splattered all over the ceiling as is. GRRM calls for a debate on the issues and promply runs away once that debate is offered. The only hope they have for maintaining any credibility is that this exchange is too convoluted for most people to follow.

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 April 14, 2015 12:57 PM  

I just think it's high comedy that GRRM has vomited up, what, a couple hundred thousand words in this kerfuffle while his fans still quietly fume about his inability to produce the next book in his Icy/Hot series.
I'm sure they're pleased with GRRM's latest detour, one in which he'll surely blame VD for preventing him from finishing the book, because as we all know by now, if someone's wrong on the Internet, you drop everything else.

Anonymous Salt April 14, 2015 12:58 PM  

I figure Sasquan is going to blow a hole right through the membership rolls this year. These people have two choices and puppies win both. SF/F has never had such a boost. And all due to the puppies.

Anonymous Joe Doakes April 14, 2015 1:03 PM  

"@Leonidas: Really. the PNH and TNH could get nominations for less than 50 votes?

That was my reaction as well. These are the most influential editors in fandom, and their bloc is at most 50 people?"


Holy smokes!

You mean all a publishing company has to do is buy 50 $40 tickets and it can then plaster " ... by the Hugo-nominated author, Joe Doakes" on every book Mr. Doakes writes in the future?!?!?

A one-time, one-day full-page advertisement on some cheesy Gannett newspaper costs more than that!

I'll never take the Hugo awards seriously ever again. It is no metric of quality whatsoever.

I could pay $50 bucks for an ISBN number, self-publish a blank paperbound notebook (with a zoomy SF title), pay $2000 for a Hugo nomination, and then pimp myself eternally as "Hugo Award-nominated author, Joe Doakes."

Blogger Mark Citadel April 14, 2015 1:04 PM  

This is an amazingly successful power play, as evident by GRRM and McRapey being in total disarray. Even their hook-baiting has proved fruitless. The fact that they somehow have roped Chris Kluweless in on the whole drama is even more buffoonish.

Blogger The Original Hermit April 14, 2015 1:04 PM  

"Ultimately Larry is a nice guy with a big ol' heart. There was always going to be a high cost for what he was doing... and he's paid it."
Makes sense. Probably doesn't help that this blew up an order of magnitude greater than last year.

Anonymous Susan April 14, 2015 1:05 PM  

WaterBoy,

I know, that is why I carefully danced around that particular bush. But it was fun, wasn't it?

Anonymous WaterBoy April 14, 2015 1:08 PM  

Indeed it was. But HugoGate is turning out to be far more amusing.

Anonymous Salt April 14, 2015 1:11 PM  

I passed the 40 dollars worth of fun a few weeks ago and I still hadn't even paid yet.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 1:12 PM  

we're all loving hugogate. The DeadHorse affair was full of tears and lamentations by the end.

MAKE IT STOP!!

Blogger praetorian April 14, 2015 1:16 PM  

"Boring, degrading, hopeless."

I'm baffled why conservatives enjoy his work.

Anonymous ? April 14, 2015 1:17 PM  

"There was always going to be a high cost for what he was doing... and he's paid it. "

What cost is he paying? Other than the time involved?

Ultimately the attention the issue gets will redound to his benefit.

Anonymous Stilicho April 14, 2015 1:17 PM  

I could pay $50 bucks for an ISBN number, self-publish a blank paperbound notebook (with a zoomy SF title), pay $2000 for a Hugo nomination, and then pimp myself eternally as "Hugo Award-nominated author, Joe Doakes."

Plus you could promote it as the "ultimate PC book, devoid of any hetero-normative hate speech"

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream April 14, 2015 1:17 PM  

*I could pay $50 bucks for an ISBN number, self-publish a blank paperbound notebook (with a zoomy SF title), pay $2000 for a Hugo nomination, and then pimp myself eternally as "Hugo Award-nominated author, Joe Doakes." *

This is a good idea for Puppies 4. Title it something like 'The Future is Unlimited' ro something so you can say with a straight face that its a high-concept literary SF piece.

*I passed the 40 dollars worth of fun a few weeks ago and I still hadn't even paid yet. *

Best $40 I ever spent, except for hunting knife.

Blogger Russell April 14, 2015 1:18 PM  

"Brad and Larry understood that the Dread Ilk are formidable even as the other side was pretending that my readership is nothing but me and my imaginary wife."

Plot twist, Vox is imaginary but Space Bunny is real. She's behind the Vox Day persona.

Boom!

That's your mind, exploding.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 1:21 PM  

"Ultimately the attention the issue gets will redound to his benefit."

ever had your wife come tell you that her friends have called her up asking her if she's ok because they read she was married to a wife beating woman hater in the news?

That's a price.

Anonymous Athor Pel April 14, 2015 1:22 PM  

"Nate April 14, 2015 12:34 PM
...
Larry isn't Vox."




The horse, she could be beaten more. Always more spectators. We teach. Give me stick. I whack one more time. See, was useful. That part of horse also dead. It is science.

Anonymous The Fraudster April 14, 2015 1:24 PM  

Think about it. You get yourself a Hugo nomination for chump change ($2000) using some old nameless copyright expired romance-SF story that you modestly revised. You register the copyright ($30 online), and publish on Amazon (maybe $300?).

Maybe throw up a flimsy book website with glowing quotes (from your buds).

Then you go out and hit on sensitive geek chicks and gamer chicks as "a Hugo-nominated SF author".

For less than the price of an engine rebuild, you are in like Flynn.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 1:25 PM  

What cost is he paying? Other than the time involved?

Ultimately the attention the issue gets will redound to his benefit.


You took the quote out of context. If you'd read the sentence right before the one you quoted, the answer is right there to the question you're asking. Larry's, ultimately, a nice guy. Having to play a big meanie on the internet is mentally exhausting after a while. Sometimes you don't want to have to fight an existential fight all the time, sometimes you just want to go back to your life and live it.

Or something like that. Realizing that we're all putting words in Larry's mouth.

Anonymous Lulabelle April 14, 2015 1:25 PM  

" WaterBoy April 14, 2015 12:46 PM

Susan: "I have not had so much fun reading a blog since the dead horse of the Asian persuasion was going on."

Sssshhhhh. The horse has a name...and if you say it...Jinvasion...three times, it will make another appearance.

And no sane person wishes for that."

STOP!! Stop it right now!! The both of you.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 1:26 PM  

Noah B April 14, 2015 12:51 PM
Same end result: SJWs lie.



no, it's not the same result.

because the MORE flagrant, and the MORE stupid and the MORE iterations of lies, the more the middle and undecideds sit up and take notice of how despicable the Rabbits are.

right now the middle is still being swayed by the, "but the SJWs are so polite" veneer. who cares how fucking polite they are while they're raping your child? "awww shucks, he shook my hand and complimented my lawn. he's not such a bad guy."

every iteration of this crap ( like EW ) turns another squishy middle ( like Torgerson ) into a guy who has had absolutely too much of this libel and slander and pisses him the fuck off.

THEIR answers are recruitment tools for OUR side.

i never bothered answering Vox on this the last time around because he is absolutely correct about one thing:
he's done more than anyone else in the last 50 years about this.

and he's going in a direction i like.

so, we may disagree on tactics ( which i've previously noted before boils down to his soccer preference for speed and chaos vs my preference for position, spacing and defense ) but i'm not going to bother wasting much time critiquing him.

also because this is his blog. and Vox is going to do what Voxxy's gonna poo. ain't nobody goin be stoppin him.

Anonymous ? April 14, 2015 1:30 PM  

"Having to play a big meanie on the internet is mentally exhausting after a while."

Oh please. The guy who proudly calls himself the International Lord of Hate and who routinely writes gigantic political tirades is tired of being hated? Gimme a fucking break.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 14, 2015 1:31 PM  

Related: An SJW is so stupid he posts a fake one star review of "The Book of Feasts and Seasons", then reveals he didn't actually read it.

How?

He didn't realize it wasn't available as an e-book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R5JWRDAAGPTNC/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00QEDGIQW

Anonymous Lurk At Me April 14, 2015 1:32 PM  

When Larry posts some of the nasty shit that Vox and the Dreaded Toads say about Scalzu, then he can be taken seriously. Until then, his position is one of hypocrite and no more than a partner of the Dreaded Toads.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 14, 2015 1:32 PM  

(Sorry, ONLY available as an e-book.)

Anonymous Daniel April 14, 2015 1:33 PM  

I could pay $50 bucks for an ISBN number, self-publish a blank paperbound notebook (with a zoomy SF title), pay $2000 for a Hugo nomination, and then pimp myself eternally as "Hugo Award-nominated author, Joe Doakes."

Actually, Joe, the original estimate for just your basic Hugo nomination is approximately $850. Don't make a book. Make a blog post. Buy a hugo for Fan Writer, and you are good. For about $8000, you can get the trophy outright.

I find it amusing that the SFWA runs a "watchdog" against vanity presses, then swoons over its own vanity awards (the Nebulas.) At least the Hugos are open to outsiders...on paper.

Anonymous justaskin April 14, 2015 1:36 PM  

OT ... Vox, you are reading Tanith Lee?

Can you recommend me what book to start with? Book of the Damned? Birthgrave?

Anonymous Jemison Thorsby April 14, 2015 1:39 PM  

"They don't need to worry about us burning down their little tor."

Love this blog, and the Ilk who reside within...

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 1:39 PM  

"When Larry posts some of the nasty shit that Vox and the Dreaded Toads say about Scalzu, then he can be taken seriously."

You blithering idiot.

Scalzi was going at it with Larry for just as long as he was going at Vox. And the fucktard Scalzi fired first in both cases.

Anonymous The formidable Mr Fist April 14, 2015 1:42 PM  

SJW rabbits thrive on loud, theatrical drama. They have the sensibility and temperament of a woman.

Regular, non rabbity men tend to despise feckless empty drama.

Warriors embrace chaos; which like war, and unlike unlike faggoty drama, has real world rewards and consequences.

Anonymous Alexander April 14, 2015 1:44 PM  

Bob, for serious?

Vox responding with the Amazon rating has led to an author connected to two publishing houses calling on readers to crap on Amazon.

Say that again: The SJWs, not content to fight to us and then throw shit at gamergate, and dragging in instapundit, have decided to go take a direct crap on Amazon.

This couldn't have turned out better for us. So let's keep our powder dry, not follow the example of shitting on the sleeping giant, and conduct our next move.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 1:44 PM  

Lurk At Me April 14, 2015 1:32 PM
When Larry posts some of the nasty shit that Vox and the Dreaded Toads say about Scalzu



because, of course, Scalzu ( sic ) in no way instigated this and never called Vox a Racist, Sexist, Homophobic Dipshit or created the acronym RSHD to refer to Vox in shorthand.

consequences for actions? that's just crazy talk.

Blogger Josh April 14, 2015 1:45 PM  

When Larry posts some of the nasty shit that Vox and the Dreaded Toads say about Scalzu, then he can be taken seriously. Until then, his position is one of hypocrite and no more than a partner of the Dreaded Toads.

Go away, idiot.

Anonymous Porky April 14, 2015 1:46 PM  

@Bob

Touche. :)

Blogger valiance. April 14, 2015 1:46 PM  

When Vox mentioned his love for chaos, all I could think of was Littlefinger's "Chaos is a Ladder" speech from Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRS8a8HjqFs

Blogger Hd Hammer April 14, 2015 1:47 PM  

"...Of course they don't agree with me on everything, no one here does either..."

Heck Vox, what do you mean? I even agree with with you that I'm in a despicable profession!

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 1:50 PM  

i never bothered answering Vox on this the last time around because he is absolutely correct about one thing:
he's done more than anyone else in the last 50 years about this.


If Larry and Sad Puppies 2 were Charles Martel and Tours, then Vox is one of the more aggressive kings of the Reconquista like Afonso Henriques who pushed the border back southwards by leaps and bounds?

I kind of like the notion of Sad Puppies 3 and Rapid Puppies 1 as Reconquista kingdoms like Navarre or Asturias or Catalonia, etc. and the SJW establishment as al-Andalus.

Would that the figurative Battle of Grenada comes soon!

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 1:56 PM  

Alexander April 14, 2015 1:44 PM
has led to an author connected to two publishing houses calling on readers to crap on Amazon.


are you reading impaired? this would have happened anyways. KNOW YOUR ENEMY.

it would simply have been delayed until either
1 - some Rabbit stupidly nominates Amazon/Goodreads ratings as a metric, at which point Vox rips their entrails out with the data
2 - Rabbits suggest a LESS objective metric, at which point Vox points out that Amazon ratings are far more suitable

bob k. mando April 14, 2015 12:45 PM
1 - i never said, "Don't answer them."
2 - i never said, "Don't answer them with the Amazon rating metric."
i'm questioning the tempo and initiative of the operation.



how did i know the general shape of GeRMs participation in the SP/RP debate from his very first post in it? at the same time that the estimable Mr. John C. Wright is being disappointed and dismayed by George's behavior towards someone with whom he has worked in the past?

because i KNEW already that GeRM was a Boomer Socialist.

no other outcome was possible, regardless of whatever prior personal connections might have lain between John and George.

because you CANNOT be a Socialist and have integrity.

hi there, Shetterly.

Anonymous Alexander April 14, 2015 2:04 PM  

1. I did misread what you said. I apologize, I was wrong.

So conceding that, all were left with is - as you say - variances in the tempo and the initiative. I see nothing wrong with the way things have gone so far.

Blogger Chiva April 14, 2015 2:06 PM  

"They live in that community and have to find a way to abide them."
Eventually a choice will have to be made. A man who attempts to live in two diverse worlds will be made to choose.

Blogger Tim April 14, 2015 2:08 PM  

I am also pretty sure Correia reads Lee and Miller.
In an ally, there are two primary considerations. 1. Can he shoot. 2. Will he aim at my enemies. (Cantra yos'Phelium).

Blogger YIH April 14, 2015 2:08 PM  

The Pillsbury Doughboy sure loves that CAPS LOCK doesn't he?

Anonymous jack April 14, 2015 2:10 PM  

I had considerable respect for Theodore Beale and his strategic and tactical abilities well before all this came down. Now? Well, I'm not sure there are words to describe how well he has engineered this. And, there is more to come.

As speculation: I could see the Hugos and Worldcon marginalized into beat up old ho on the dirty side of town and a new award system [Galactics, Universe's] and a dedicated 'Con' show started. Call it PuppyCon just to be cruel. It would take the combined efforts and resources of a bunch of folk. I think we have the numbers. It all may take another cycle or three of the Hugos before the carnage is complete enough. But, what the heck, we got the time and, in feud land my money is on the Ilk and their ilk any Day.

Anonymous Porky April 14, 2015 2:13 PM  

Call it PuppyCon just to be cruel. It would take the combined efforts and resources of a bunch of folk. I think we have the numbers.

Cons are for dweebs.

Blogger Chris Mallory April 14, 2015 2:19 PM  

This is all rather funny. Correia and Torgersen are both very politically correct. Correia with his "Being raciss is the worst thing in the world, but I can't be one because I am a swarthy wog" routine and Torgersen trotting out his Bantu wife as evidence that he can't be an evil raciss.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian April 14, 2015 2:23 PM  

Please, this is almost equivalent Sadpuppies video to the Honeybadger "don't give a F*CK" video:

Alot of news happening - Sad Puppies made the liberal press foaming BY Vee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKPBBUkbRc

Greatness. Check it out for mirthy take down of the antis.

Anonymous Lulabelle April 14, 2015 2:23 PM  

"YIH April 14, 2015 2:08 PM

The Pillsbury Doughboy sure loves that CAPS LOCK doesn't he?"

Cause all caps are SCARY. And show that you mean bidness!

Anonymous Poli_Mis April 14, 2015 2:25 PM  

This post and that EPIC response to GRRM or rather Germ, is why I love this blog. The internet could disappear tomorrow and it may be the only site I miss.

Blogger Krul April 14, 2015 2:26 PM  

OT: I just got finished reading the short story that replaced John C Wright's entry for the Hugos: The Day The World Turned Upside Down by Thomas Olde Heuvelt.

It's awful.

It's definitely not science fiction. I suppose it qualifies as fantasy, barely, since it has a juvenile gimmick of things falling up (seriously, it's like something out of a story for elementary school children), but the real problem is that this gimmick isn't what the story is about. It's a painfully blunt analogy for what the story is actually about.

So what is the story actually about? The narrator's feelings. Specifically his devastation after being dumped by his girlfriend. You might say she turned his world upside down. Get it?

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if you could relate to and empathize with the speaker, but you can't because he's such a self absorbed and generally pathetic person.

For example (spoilers) when he's reunited with his ex, she's understandably worried about her parents, who are probably dead, and her kneecap is broken. I'll say that again, her parents are probably dead and her kneecap is broken. But all our hero can think of is how horrible she is for not taking him back, how he just can't believe that she was with someone else (who, by the way, is lying dead in her shower).

It's atrocious. You could sum up the whole thing in one word. One letter, really.

Γ.

Now I haven't read the John C Wright story that this one replaced, but if it has one one-thousandth of the quality of the Animals story or the Count to a Trillion books, then it definitely deserves this award above the runner-up.

It really drives home the fact that Sad Puppies is about more than politics and inclusiveness. There is no doubt in my mind that SP and RP are doing the right thing for the sake of art and the Hugos themselves, which is significantly cheapened by having this garbage as a candidate. The Evil Legion of Evil is the only hope to save the Hugos from complete irrelevancy.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 2:31 PM  

Alexander April 14, 2015 2:04 PM
I see nothing wrong with the way things have gone so far.


and i have already acknowledged that, in the larger picture, i am quibbling. Vox is doing spectacularly well.

which is why i made no response to this before.

i'm just the one counseling a modicum of patience ... in anticipation of greater bloodshed later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2gVXd7FzhQ&t=2m27s

Anonymous Trimegistus April 14, 2015 2:32 PM  

Vox, it's a damned shame you are a married man and a good Christian. Otherwise you could parlay your newfound status as Living Embodiment of Satan into an endless stream of SJW chicks in your bed. Just show up at Worldcon and they'd be lining up to argue with you . . . and slip a room key into your pocket.

If you aren't going to Spokane, can I pretend to be you?

Anonymous Gx1080 April 14, 2015 2:36 PM  

Larry also understands exactly what I am doing.

Wasn't planning to point it since it seemed evident, but, isn't the whole point of this excercise to answer to the moron brigade burning down the Hugos with a new set of awards?

Also, GRRM should really read both the Sad and Rabid Puppies slates, there's several corrections on his assumpions based on that.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 2:38 PM  

@justaskin
My recommendations for Tanith Lee are:
The Silver Metal Lover
Death's Master (Flat Earth, #2), Delusion's Master
(Flat Earth, #3) (read the others in the Flat Earth series if this is to your taste)

Keep in mind that Tanith Lee is an expert stylist, but, like Jack Vance, her tastes run to the morbid, the romantic, the decadent. Don't read Night's Master (Flat Earth #1) unless your tastes run toward what the Japanese call 'bishounen' that is, the kind of daydream-men women like who are: exquisitely beautiful men, highly emotional, vindictive, yet somehow always in a position of leadership.

I am not familiar enough with the Linnaean taxonomy of Vox Day and Anonymous Conservative to tell you which Greek letter they assign to this particular rank in the sexual and social pecking order of their theory.

Blogger Student in Blue April 14, 2015 2:40 PM  

Larry and Brad are not my pack, the Dread Ilk and the Rabid Puppies are. Science fiction fandom is not my family, #GamerGate is.

Sadly, a lot of the people over at KiA seem to have bought into the whole "Vox Day is openly racist and sexist!" claptrap. Ironic, really, given the smear campaign against GG and how they were called all those things too.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 2:41 PM  

@ The formidable Mr Fist April
"Warriors embrace chaos; which like war, and unlike unlike faggoty drama, has real world rewards and consequences."

A wise man once said, "A rule of human life is that those who fight evil are always hated by those who do not fight evil."

(oddly enough, Steve Dikto understood this, hence the hatred of J Jonah Jameson for Spiderman.)

"A man can have the inscription on his tombstone I FOUGHT EVIL, or he can have the inscription I FOUGHT CARBON EMISSIONS. But not both."

Anonymous Difster April 14, 2015 2:44 PM  

In 5 years (or less), there will be no prestige left in getting a Hugo award if it's even still around.

I suspect that the Hugo and Nebula awards will try to combine forces and shut out the Puppies once more and they will fail badly at it because that is what they do. They can't see the reasons for their own failure, they only have their faith that they should be in charge.

Anonymous Earl Ragnar cheddarman April 14, 2015 2:44 PM  

"They don't need to worry about us burning down their little tor."



Damn!!!

Blogger BigFire April 14, 2015 2:46 PM  

Larry is if nothing professional. This is a man who writes 60k word on an average weeks and gets paid for doing that. He puts out 2-3 novels a year plus short stories and novella. Wasting time arguing with the SJW detracts time better spent getting paid. This current round of cultural war have cost him 1 week worth of professional writing.

Blogger Student in Blue April 14, 2015 2:48 PM  

@John Wright

As a self-styled journeyman in those three fields, I would rank them as being a feminine imagining of an alpha or sigma, depending on the character. In terms of r/K, they would be K.

For example, from Escaflowne, king in exile Van is a feminine imagining/idealization of a Sigma, and knight Allen, respected by all and in charge of his own fiefdom, is likewise as an Alpha.

Anonymous REG April 14, 2015 2:49 PM  

What annoys me the most is when so many blog administers post a disclaimer "I don't agree with some of...) If you have to post a disclaimer, then leave it alone in the first place because it disenfranchises the subject. Of course, as Vox states in the lead, everyone disagrees with something, If you're going to quote him or write something defining his actions, just do it. The SJWs are always going to bring their 'Vox is a ... anyway.

Second annoyance is the 5(?) "Quotes of Vox' that are being passed around. I haven't seen them, nor wish to, but am familiar with what is probable from reading the NK Jamison quote that they are response (Counter) quotes, and not attack quotes. And almost none ever mention that when they say they have read them.

And, No, I don't consider myself one of the Ink, this is only my private opinion of what I've seen.
End of my little rant... for now.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 2:50 PM  

@ bob k. mando

Sir, I have misled you. I was not surprised at Mr Martin's reaction. When I say I expected more of him, that is expressing hope for a miracle, not a judgment extrapolated from past action.

I knew what Mr Martin was when first I read the last story in his TUF VOYAGING anthology, where the hero by threat of genocide imposes contraception on a thinly-disguised Catholic world which is overpopulated because the people there believe life is sacred.

I knew even back when I was an atheist that only Leftists would regard the kill-the-babies guy as the hero.

Mr Martin was a skilled enough writer, however, that he had the strawman-Catholics give their side of the argument in one paragraph (one that, even then, I found more convincing than the designated hero's argument in favor of population control).

This showed that, at least in a story, he could see some issues have two sides.

That he is not as fairminded as one of his own stories, again, does not surprise me. I think stories all ultimately come from divine inspiration, and the writer may or may not understand his own work.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell April 14, 2015 2:51 PM  

While the SF/F establishment underestimates you do not make the same mistake of underestimating them.

Anonymous Gecko April 14, 2015 2:51 PM  

Larry's tired.

When I saw his initial reply to Martin, I thought, "Holy crap, who has the energy for that?" I'm certainly no writer, but still...

I think it gets compounded by the fact that Martin cannot be forthright and honest in turn. He reads what Larry has written, but either ignores it, doesn't follow its logic, or deceives about it. We've all gotten into it with *that guy*.

Us: "Look, the sky is clearly blue."
Them: "When you say that the sky is purple with pink polka dots, you're clearly mistaken."

Immediately, we wonder why we even wasted the energy in the first place. There are certainly ways to deal with this, but the initial realization can be depressing.

It would be more worth the effort, perhaps even rewarding, if Larry was addressing an honest and reasonable man. Don't we all feel less tired, even invigorated, when we have the chance to observe results of our labor? Don't we live for the honest and open dialog? "Come now, and let us reason together."

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo April 14, 2015 2:58 PM  

Speaking as an atheist, I find the "overpopulation" idea to be flat out ludicrous, especially after reading most of "The Ultimate Resource".

The Earth right now could probably handle 50 billion people, just with existing technology. With fusion power? Probably three times that. Easily.

Fusion-powered desalination could allow us to octuplet the amount of arable land, just for starters. Not precisely cheaply, you understand, but it could be done.

And of course Mars has the equal surface area to the land area of Earth, plus or minus. Quite a few extraplanetary moons in this solar system could support life as well.

And even the Star Wars galaxy, which was settled for 20,000 years or so, with same-day trans-galactic travel, still settled less than 100 million worlds. That's less than 0.01% of the possible total for their galaxy, and that was enough for sextillions of sentient beings.

Blogger ajw308 April 14, 2015 2:59 PM  

Gecko, this is standard fare for disagreeing with SJW's. Try it on Twitter, you'll get boatloads of the same, just much more condensed. It's real easy to see the repeatable and predictable patterns in 140 chars, or less.

Blogger Corvinus April 14, 2015 3:01 PM  

So what is the story actually about? The narrator's feelings. Specifically his devastation after being dumped by his girlfriend. You might say she turned his world upside down. Get it?

@Krul
In all fairness, while finagling JCW's work off the ballot was an obvious dirty trick which I personally condemn, I do suppose the Gammas need something that's up their alley on the ballot.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 3:05 PM  

""A man can have the inscription on his tombstone I FOUGHT EVIL, or he can have the inscription I FOUGHT CARBON EMISSIONS. But not both.""



I would be have to have that whole quote on my tombstone.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 3:06 PM  

I think it gets compounded by the fact that Martin cannot be forthright and honest in turn. He reads what Larry has written, but either ignores it, doesn't follow its logic, or deceives about it. We've all gotten into it with *that guy*.

Larry also makes the tactical mistake that I've often been guilty of, which is to not recognize an SJW and giving them sufficient benefit of the doubt to actually address their nonsensical "points" rather than simply telling them that they're either too stupid or too dishonest to bother with.

That takes a lot of time and energy, and it is dispiriting to find it going nowhere.

Blogger RobertT April 14, 2015 3:08 PM  

"I don’t think you guys realize that most of me and Brad’s communication with Vox consists of us asking him to be nice and not burn it all down out of spite."

Actually laughed out loud.

This is so good it deserves to be quoted.

Anonymous Joseph Dooley April 14, 2015 3:09 PM  

The most popular people are those who are least threatening to the status quo. Scalzi is that man.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 3:12 PM  

@ WhiteKnightLeo,

Thank you for saying so! The overpopulation apocalypse always exasperated my adventurous science fiction heart.

Thanks to that book, I now know about the 'Reverse Cassandra Effect'. If Julian Simon accurately predicts that metal will be more abundant in ten years rather than less, and his prediction is accurate, the intelligentsia rejects him as a false prophet: whereas if Paul Erlich predicts mass starvation by 1980 and all of India dead, they shower him with lauds and garlands.

The background conflict between the galactic superclusters in my latest book, COUNT TO A TRILLION, will ultimately turn out to be a war between the Malthusians (who are afraid of running out of infinity) and the Amaltheans (who regard resources properly so called as infinite, even if spacetime is finite).

Blogger CM April 14, 2015 3:25 PM  

I think stories all ultimately come from divine inspiration, and the writer may or may not understand his own work.

I started reading soiaf by rec and never would have read it otherwise. The first 3 books i loved because i thought there was some theme of true leaders/kings/rulers rule for the people. But each subsequent book is like he had no idea... he's even fighting his characters and forcing them into roles they shouldn't be in... to what end? More $$?

So... yeah... i kinda agree with you.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo April 14, 2015 3:32 PM  

@John Wright

No problem. It annoys me too, especially when I find it in series I otherwise like. I really don't get why the "overpopulation" crowd isn't pushing for funding for FTL space travel to alleviate the problem.

But of course they aren't; there's insufficient opportunity for preening and moral posturing in merely helping the proles find space to live in. And then there's the independence that inevitably accompanies living light-minutes away from the nearest bureaucrat, not to mention light-years.


That said...

One of the things I don't like about theists like Vox is that he lumps all atheists together. I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a Malthusian (although if you follow the original Marx, those two ideas are incompatible), and I'm also not a moral relativist.

I don't think he appreciates non-believers lumping him in the same category with the Westboro Baptist assholes; I wish we got the same consideration.

I recognize that Leftist atheists get a lot of attention. But like with Leftists in any sphere, they don't represent the bulk of us, just the bulk of the ones with the pitchforks and the megaphones.

Not all of us think Richard Dawkins was some kind of secular Second Coming. (For the record: I think he was a decent scientist who too often stepped outside of the field he was actually capable in, and as a result ended up painting himself into rhetorical corners way too often).

Anonymous Nah April 14, 2015 3:32 PM  

"I think stories all ultimately come from divine inspiration"

Scalzi, Stross, Mieville, and many others like them, appear to be inspired by Satan not God.

Or did God inspire Heinlein who inspired Scalzi, so Scalzi gets his divine inspiration second-hand? Or could only Satan inspire Scalzi to execute his ripoffs of the divinely inspired works of others so poorly?

Blogger Krul April 14, 2015 3:33 PM  

Corvinus - I do suppose the Gammas need something that's up their alley on the ballot.

I don't.

Also, did I imply by omission that the only bad things about Upside Down were the plot and characters? That it is, perhaps, stylistically good? That it is a bad story told well?

No. It is a bad story told poorly. I doubt even Gammas would think it's good, let alone award worthy.

Anonymous Nah April 14, 2015 3:34 PM  

"I really don't get why the "overpopulation" crowd isn't pushing for funding for FTL space travel to alleviate the problem."

It is much, much cheaper to get the proles to stop breeding.

Not that it's really about any kind of cost-benefit calculus. They just hate the proles.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 3:36 PM  

John Wright April 14, 2015 2:50 PM
Sir, I have misled you. I was not surprised at Mr Martin's reaction. When I say I expected more of him, that is expressing hope for a miracle, not a judgment extrapolated from past action.



ah.

[ head bow ]

then please forgive me for misrepresenting your position here, sir.

to be more precise in my own statement, i would also agree that it's not impossible for a Rabbit to repent.

i just don't consider that much more likely than expecting Bill Ayers to express regret for treasonous and murderous acts against these United States ... on Sept 11, 2001.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/11/books/no-regrets-for-love-explosives-memoir-sorts-war-protester-talks-life-with.html
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'

the Boomer Socialists are a particularly evil cohort. for they chose Marxism willingly and voluntarily ... in the midst of the greatest plenty ( provided by Capitalism ) that history had ever seen.

the Khmer Rouge or the Red Guards at least had the excuse that they had to join the Communist Party in order to gain social or monetary advancement. sometimes, even to insulate themselves from the ideological inquisition. iow, many of them under duress.

there is no such exculpatory reason for Boomers of the Left.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 3:37 PM  

"ever had your wife come tell you that her friends have called her up asking her if she's ok because they read she was married to a wife beating woman hater in the news?"

He allows her to speak without permission?

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 3:37 PM  

Scalzi, Stross, Mieville, and many others like them, appear to be inspired by Satan not God.

2 Corinthians 4:4. If Satan is the god of this world, then can his inspiration be seen as divine in a way? I dunno; I think that's really pushing the definition of divine way beyond what it normally means.

Anonymous Feh April 14, 2015 3:38 PM  

"the Khmer Rouge or the Red Guards at least had the excuse that they had to join the Communist Party in order to gain social or monetary advancement. sometimes, even to insulate themselves from the ideological inquisition."

Far as I can tell those are exactly the reasons people become Democrats.

Anonymous WhiteKnightLeo April 14, 2015 3:42 PM  

@Noah B I'm surprised he lets her outside without a veil and an escort.

Blogger Corvinus April 14, 2015 3:42 PM  

Corvinus - I do suppose the Gammas need something that's up their alley on the ballot.

I don't.

Also, did I imply by omission that the only bad things about Upside Down were the plot and characters? That it is, perhaps, stylistically good? That it is a bad story told well?

No. It is a bad story told poorly. I doubt even Gammas would think it's good, let alone award worthy.


@Krul
Yeah, I was being a bit sarcastic. The only thing Gammas deserve is to be kicked around like soccer balls.

But I wouldn't underestimate the ability of Gammas to like utter crap if it happens to speak to their rabbity little minds.

Blogger Danby April 14, 2015 3:47 PM  

@Noah B
"He allows her to speak without permission?"

Noah, if you've discovered a way to get a woman to shut up, short of beating her, please let us in on the secret.

Please, for God's sake, tell us.

Anonymous Sevron April 14, 2015 3:49 PM  

I too listen to Dennis Prager.

Anonymous Feh April 14, 2015 3:52 PM  

"Noah, if you've discovered a way to get a woman to shut up, short of beating her, please let us in on the secret."

Easy. Give her a phone and she'll spend all day poking at it instead of talking to you.

Anonymous Gecko April 14, 2015 3:54 PM  

he's even fighting his characters and forcing them into roles they shouldn't be in

I've often thought part of it is that he realized his political heroes (in real life) were behaving uncannily like the villains in his story. There may indeed be some merit to this train of thought.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 4:00 PM  

"Noah, if you've discovered a way to get a woman to shut up, short of beating her, please let us in on the secret."

I've found that art supplies work well -- water colors, oil pastels, etc.

Blogger Danby April 14, 2015 4:04 PM  

@Feh, phone and tablet, still no relief

@Noah B, arts and crafting doesn't seem to interrupt the flow of words...

Blogger SQT April 14, 2015 4:11 PM  

I have to reiterate what so many others are saying-- this is the best $40 I have ever spent. I'm one of the Evil Legion that resides in California (one of the newly added to Sasquan) so there are those of us here in the land of fruits an nuts who are on the SP side.

I stayed up late last night reading Larry's fisking and I'm sure I'll be up late tonight reading something else related. This has not gotten old yet.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 4:14 PM  

"One of the things I don't like about theists like Vox is that he lumps all atheists together. "

Not so. He's even had an excellent and entertaining debate with an atheist over the existence of gods and the evidence there of.

And I would point out that Westboro is a tiny fraction of the internet christian population... where as a civil non-aspie atheist is most often not an atheist at all... but an agnostic.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 4:15 PM  

"the Boomer Socialists are a particularly evil cohort. for they chose Marxism willingly and voluntarily ... in the midst of the greatest plenty ( provided by Capitalism ) that history had ever seen."

That is why I am much more relaxed and much less astonished at the illogic and the madness of my fellow man ever since becoming Christian. The Church teaches that the heart of man is depraved, wicked and corrupt from birth. I look in my own heart, and see it is so; I look at overweight liberals whining about starvation, and adoring idols like Che and Castro, more stained with blood than ancient idols of Baal and Moloch, and again I see it is so.

No one is worthy of being saved, and no one is beyond being saved.

That paradox is more logical and more clear than everything a lifetime of secular humanist logic and philosophy taught to me, and, lo, my frustration with mankind is gone

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 4:19 PM  

" I look in my own heart, and see it is so;"

and that mate is the fundamental difference between us and them. We see the truth and accept the truth.

They do not look... and when forced... refuse to see.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 4:19 PM  

"Noah, if you've discovered a way to get a woman to shut up, short of beating her, please let us in on the secret."

Kiss her.

Blogger John Wright April 14, 2015 4:22 PM  

@ Nate

"They do not look... and when forced... refuse to see."

Sir, you chill me to the bone.

This is why I do not read horror stories. Real life is unnatural enough as it is.

Anonymous Randy M April 14, 2015 4:23 PM  

John,
"Kiss her."
There is the problem, though, of there often being more women about than lips.

Blogger Krul April 14, 2015 4:33 PM  

What is with the comments disappearing? I swear, there were like 5 comments about kissing a second ago and now they're gone.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 4:33 PM  

"Sir, you chill me to the bone. "

Lovecraft is terrifying because he understood the maddness in the hearts of men. What horror is greater?

Anonymous Lulabelle April 14, 2015 4:44 PM  

"No one is worthy of being saved, and no one is beyond being saved. "

I so love this. Another antinomy regarding God's character and/or actions.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 4:47 PM  

"I so love this. Another antinomy regarding God's character and/or actions."

and you wonder why I say Mr Wright is the finest american author of his generation.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 4:51 PM  

"The Church teaches that the heart of man is depraved, wicked and corrupt from birth."

And this is perhaps the best example of why the Church's teachings are rubbish and to be trashed as such

Anonymous Jon Bromfield April 14, 2015 4:52 PM  

Is anybody organizing a Sad or Rabid Puppies event at Sasquan? Because of other commitments I will only be there the last three days, staying at the Grand Davenport Hotel.

Blogger SirHamster April 14, 2015 4:52 PM  

Now I haven't read the John C Wright story that this one replaced, but if it has one one-thousandth of the quality of the Animals story or the Count to a Trillion books, then it definitely deserves this award above the runner-up.

I've been freeloading the SP/RP entertainment so far, but now I need to buy a membership to No Award this story on principle.

Anonymous kfg April 14, 2015 4:54 PM  

"Cons are for dweebs."

I am not a TrueFan because I came to that conclusion decades ago and so wasted my time, ya know, reading the material voraciously.

Cons were formed at a time when most readers of SF lived in mundane isolation. They had no one to talk to about their passion, and so they arranged to gather. The material was the point and focus of the whole thing, but somewhere along the line it seems that con attendance became its own thing and then took over and began to revile the very material it was called into existence to venerate.

The tail is now indignant at the dog's attempts to wag it.

Anonymous Pope Cleophus I April 14, 2015 4:59 PM  

A man can have the inscription on his tombstone I FOUGHT EVIL, or he can have the inscription I FOUGHT CARBON EMISSIONS. But not both.

Al Gore
March 31, 1948 - ?
I FOUGHT EVIL CARBON EMISSIONS

Blogger Vox April 14, 2015 5:01 PM  

One of the things I don't like about theists like Vox is that he lumps all atheists together. I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a Malthusian (although if you follow the original Marx, those two ideas are incompatible), and I'm also not a moral relativist. I don't think he appreciates non-believers lumping him in the same category with the Westboro Baptist assholes; I wish we got the same consideration.

I don't. Read The Irrational Atheist. Hint: the title implies not all atheists are irrational.

Blogger Corvinus April 14, 2015 5:07 PM  

"The Church teaches that the heart of man is depraved, wicked and corrupt from birth."

And this is perhaps the best example of why the Church's teachings are rubbish and to be trashed as such


@Lurk Over Here
Honestly, if idiots like you didn't have your heads in the sand about mankind's intrinsic tendency toward evil, we wouldn't be having this plague of sodomogamy and sodomogamophilia sweeping the world.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 5:15 PM  

"And this is perhaps the best example of why the Church's teachings are rubbish and to be trashed as such"

as I said...

They do not look... and when forced... they refuse to see.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 5:16 PM  

John Wright April 14, 2015 4:19 PM
Kiss her.




heh. there you go.

after all, when woman won't stop talking ( as opposed to hectoring ) to you ... she is just trying to get your attention.

of course, even her hectoring is often just a plea for attention. but that behavior shouldn't be rewarded ... unless she likes getting paddled.

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 14, 2015 5:17 PM  

Has anyone seen that this chick is offering "scholarships" to WorldCon? maryrobinettekowal.com

Da Mary Robin scholarship for kids dat cunt read good. Hey Mrs Robin me cunt read good can I get scholship four something dat cost da price of foor packs of cigs? Me pour benchpressed miner ity.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 5:19 PM  

Corvinus April 14, 2015 5:07 PM
Honestly, if idiots like you didn't have your heads in the sand about mankind's intrinsic tendency toward evil, we wouldn't be having this plague of sodomogamy and sodomogamophilia sweeping the world.



forget that.

societies built and organized explicitly on atheism and the denial of God murdered some 100 million people over the last century.

from whence does such corruption come, if not intrinsic to the nature of Man? you certainly can't blame the Churches.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 5:20 PM  

BigGaySteve April 14, 2015 5:17 PM
Has anyone seen that this chick is offering "scholarships" to WorldCon?


yep, been mentioned several times.

never hurts to say it again, though.

Blogger Marissa April 14, 2015 5:29 PM  

It is much, much cheaper to get the proles to stop breeding.

Not that it's really about any kind of cost-benefit calculus. They just hate the proles.


It's like one long struggle against the Word of God: "For the poor you have always with you".

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 5:41 PM  

"It's like one long struggle against the Word of God: "For the poor you have always with you"."

but but but...

star trek says we overcome poverty!

Blogger Corvinus April 14, 2015 5:42 PM  

forget that.

societies built and organized explicitly on atheism and the denial of God murdered some 100 million people over the last century.

from whence does such corruption come, if not intrinsic to the nature of Man? you certainly can't blame the Churches.


@bob k. mando
And according to the SJWs and New Agers, and entryists in the Christian churches, we're supposed to worship Man.

They sure have a poor taste in false gods.

Blogger Giraffe April 14, 2015 5:44 PM  

""A man can have the inscription on his tombstone I FOUGHT EVIL, or he can have the inscription I FOUGHT CARBON EMISSIONS. But not both.""

Oddly enough, they were talking on the radio about composting human remains because cremation means carbon emissions. I think we should just build bigger ovens.

Blogger Chiva April 14, 2015 5:56 PM  

"star trek says we overcome poverty!"

A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. - Ferengi rule 'Unknown'

Anonymous BigGaySteve April 14, 2015 6:01 PM  

@ Bob MondoI was doing an impression of the takers of the scholarship.

I could pay $50 bucks for an ISBN number, self-publish a blank paperbound notebook (with a zoomy SF title), pay $2000 for a Hugo nomination, and then pimp myself eternally as "Hugo Award-nominated author, Joe Doakes."

I really wish I would have done something like that before and not let them know I was conservative. I could have been the darling of the SJW and they would say "dont oppress the gay author" When leftists hear really bad leftist ideas in parady they think it is supporting like "If people are given a choice they chose wrong"

"ever had your wife come tell you that her friends have called her up asking her if she's ok because they read she was married to a wife beating woman hater in the news? That's a price."

Have her tell them she is only with you because you have a large penis. Then she will get their sympathy. That's how I ended up with so many bad ex boyfriends that knew what topics to avoid.

""A man can have the inscription on his tombstone I FOUGHT EVIL, or he can have the inscription I FOUGHT CARBON EMISSIONS. But not both.""

Maybe you could if you stop the 3rd world from coming into 1st world nations on the dole/welfare. When on taxpayer paid benefits they have a larger carbon footprint than they could achieve in their homeland.

@Noah B, arts and crafting doesn't seem to interrupt the flow of words...~ have you tried glue?

@whitekinght- the only way the earth could handle that many is if everyone was "equal" to Asians or whites. Rhodesia and South Africa where breadbaskets but when blacks took over they lost the ability to feed themselves. Haiti had a higher GDP than the 13 US colonies. If we do make a FTL Asians and whites will flee and leave the Planet Of The Apes, and we wont leave a single white man left because we saw Elysium.

"entryists in the Christian churches, we're supposed to worship Man."~ I must have seen the wrong Soros memo I thought you are supposed to worship post menopausal career women who have had multiple abortions. Maybe they send a different message to the gay bars.

"I think we should just build bigger ovens." ~ get some German engineers on the job

Blogger WhiteKnight April 14, 2015 6:09 PM  

My apologies, Vox. I had thought from the title that the implication WAS that all atheists are irrational. I have downloaded it and I will read it.

If that is what you think, I withdraw my complaint.





@bob k mando You are operating under the assumption that the Marxists aren't religious. I assure you, they are religious. Their religion is only technically secular, but it has no fewer supernatural assumptions than does Islam.

I will give Christianity and Judaism a lot of credit for developing and accepting natural law theory. But Islamic theology expressly rejects this concept. By the same token, Marxists ALSO reject this notion, when it comes to the nature of man.

They failed because they believed that man's nature was malleable. The people they experimented on found to their woe that man's nature is not as malleable as clay. Of course they had no reason to believe it was so in the first place, but a rational understanding of the limitations of their own knowledge is not something that SJWs and other sundry Marxists could ever be accused of having.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 14, 2015 6:10 PM  

John Wright,

Keep in mind that "The Church" is the body of Christian believers. That is not the same as those in the Roman Catholic Church, which I assume is who you are referring to.

I believe the latter has members in the former (not all however), but not all in the former are in the latter and the former doesn't teach anything directly as it is not an organized earthly entity.

Blogger Brad Andrews April 14, 2015 6:11 PM  

Vox,

The title could be read to imply all atheists are irrational.

Though even the one here must be to some extent as you have no firm reference point for transcendent values without something transcendent.

Blogger WhiteKnight April 14, 2015 6:16 PM  

@BigGaySteve

I don't like the racial implications in your reply. Most lost the ability to feed themselves because they were Marxists, but as for the rest, they lost the ability because, like the Spanish Empire, they never had it. Their population expanded under British or other rule, but they never really understood why exactly the British were able to make things work so well, so when the British left it all fell apart.

The Spanish Empire never actually collapsed, because it never actually rose in the first place. Spain was not enriched by its colonies as the other European powers were; its culture did not celebrate productive work, nor did it have a cultural respect for property rights comparable to that of the English or the Dutch. Hence when they settled the New World, there was no mass movement of people who actually wanted to build a life there. Instead, they wanted to have an adventure, make some money, and then return to Spain as gentlemen.

The same issue here. This same lesson would apply to many parts of Russia, where the people are as white as you but are almost as tribal and savage as those Africans you disdain.

Anonymous p-dawg April 14, 2015 6:34 PM  

@Lurk Over Here: Well, if an internet stranger says it, it MUST be true, right? Case closed, everyone, the almighty Lurk Over Here hath pronounced. I don't suppose you would have anything like facts or evidence that support the notion that people are perfect until corrupted, would you? No, of course not, what was I thinking? You've pronounced, what more could any rational being need?

Blogger Danby April 14, 2015 6:34 PM  

"The Church teaches that the heart of man is depraved, wicked and corrupt from birth."

"And this is perhaps the best example of why the Church's teachings are rubbish and to be trashed as such"


What was the primary personality trait of the gamma again? Oh, yes, an inability to look at his own incompetence, his own self-delusions, and his own failures. His ego is so fragile that he can't bear to admit his own shortcomings and must attribute them to someone else's evil.

Gentlemen, behold Lurk.

Anonymous Bah April 14, 2015 6:40 PM  

"Spain was not enriched by its colonies as the other European powers were"

Wrong, idiot. Have you really never heard of the silver mines of Zacatecas and Potosí? What do you think those English pirates were trying to intercept, Spanish fleets laden with feather headdresses?

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 6:44 PM  

Giraffe April 14, 2015 5:44 PM
Oddly enough, they were talking on the radio about composting human remains because cremation means carbon emissions.


*facepalm*

because they don't think composting has any carbon products? *sigh*


WhiteKnight April 14, 2015 6:09 PM
They failed because they believed that man's nature was malleable.


irrelevant to the fact that they willfully and voluntarily chose murder as their instrument of malleability.

that Marxism shares many elements ( a prophet who can see the future! ) with organized religion is also irrelevant.

it the atheist assertion that man is fundamentally corrupt vs the judeo-christian assertion that he is.

and the atheists refuted us by ... demonstrating absolute corruption?

i remain ... unconvinced.



WhiteKnight April 14, 2015 6:16 PM
but they never really understood why exactly the British were able to make things work so well, so when the British left it all fell apart.


they 'never really understood' because that comprehension was beyond their capability:
http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/


WhiteKnight April 14, 2015 6:16 PM
The Spanish Empire never actually collapsed, because it never actually rose in the first place. Spain was not enriched by its colonies as the other European powers were


oooooooohhhh-kay.

that'd be why Spain was the more doughty naval power than England into the 1600s.

because they "weren't enriched" and "never rose".

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 6:46 PM  

"Honestly, if idiots like you didn't have your heads in the sand about mankind's intrinsic tendency toward evil, we wouldn't be having this plague of sodomogamy and sodomogamophilia sweeping the world."

First, Sodomy isn't evil or a product of evil. It's simply another form of intimacy. If you think it's evil then all you have done is unthinkingly adopted the word of a mythical God.

Second, is my 1 week old nephew both depraved and wicked?

Fucking, no brain idiot! Next time you take a "God's" word for it think about that question....then make up another excuse for your ignorance.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 6:48 PM  

"What was the primary personality trait of the gamma again? Oh, yes, an inability to look at his own incompetence, his own self-delusions, and his own failures."

You've just described Christians to a T. Thank you.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 6:50 PM  

Go fuck yourselves. I refuse to be bullied.

Anonymous DavidKathome April 14, 2015 6:51 PM  

t's definitely not science fiction. I suppose it qualifies as fantasy, barely, since it has a juvenile gimmick of things falling up (seriously, it's like something out of a story for elementary school children), but the real problem is that this gimmick isn't what the story is about. It's a painfully blunt analogy for what the story is actually about.

So what is the story actually about? The narrator's feelings. Specifically his devastation after being dumped by his girlfriend. You might say she turned his world upside down. Get it?


I was just reading another forum where someone read that story and was telling everyone how it brought tears to his eyes. I can see why Alphas and Gammas can't agree on what constitutes a good story.

Anonymous Discard April 14, 2015 6:54 PM  

Lurk Over Here: If you doubt that the heart of man is wicked and depraved, you can cure yourself of that defect by teaching school. Children are nasty and cruel. They're born like that, and are saved by love.

Anonymous Discard April 14, 2015 6:59 PM  

Lurk Over Here: See if you can get your week old nephew to share his meal with you, and to respect his mother's need for rest. Infants are all selfishness and no empathy.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 7:00 PM  

My latest reply to GRRM's continuing defense of Jemisin:

With Zimmerman and Martin, the outcome was as it should have been. Zimmerman committed no crime that night. Martin assaulted Zimmerman, striking him in the face and battering his head, leading Zimmerman to shoot Martin in self defense. The evidence was so overwhelming that the prosecution's presentation actually looked like a defense of Zimmerman. The jury ultimately agreed that Zimmerman was innocent. Any of this sound familiar?

Since the exchange between Vox and Jemisin occurred before Garner's death, his death is irrelevant to their exchange. Nonetheless, Vox condemned Garner's death at the hands of police in a post titled "The banality of US evil" on December 8, 2014.

Most importantly, simultaneously believing on the one hand that we should have a colorblind society in which we are all equals; and on the other hand, believing that it is perfectly normal for blacks to express racial solidarity while any similar expression of racial solidarity by whites is an outrage, indicates that you hold irreconcilably opposing views. Holding irreconcilably opposing views is definitive proof of irrationality. In the interest of fairness, I should point out that I haven't actually seen you advocate a colorblind society in which all races are equal.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:01 PM  

"Lurk Over Here: If you doubt that the heart of man is wicked and depraved, you can cure yourself of that defect by teaching school. Children are nasty and cruel. They're born like that, and are saved by love. "

Hey Discard, is my 1 week old nephew evil and depraved and if so how do you know this?

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:02 PM  

" Children are nasty and cruel. They're born like that, and are saved by love."

Hey Discard. Is my 1 week old nephew nasty and cruel? If so, how do you know this without ever having met him?

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 7:04 PM  

'Second, is my 1 week old nephew both depraved and wicked?'

Actually he certainly is.

I have 5 kids. I know this beyond any shadow of a doubt.

A child at that age has no capacity to think of the needs or wants of anyone but himself.

That's the definition of wicked.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2015 7:06 PM  

'Second, is my 1 week old nephew both depraved and wicked?'

This should be just your BASIC Christian theology. Oh, how far the West have fallen, when someone asks that question, clearly expecting the wrong answer.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 7:10 PM  

What happened? Did the words "irrational" and "atheist" appear enough times that we conjured one up?

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:14 PM  

"A child at that age has no capacity to think of the needs or wants of anyone but himself.

That's the definition of wicked."

No...The definition of wicked would be to have the capacity to think of the needs of others then ignore that capacity and ignore those needs. As you said, my nephew does not have this capacity....Idiot!

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 7:15 PM  

"No...The definition of wicked would be to have the capacity to think of the needs of others then ignore that capacity and ignore those needs. "

***chuckle***

fascinating. You think that wickedness requires malice. you're a fool.

Anonymous Discard April 14, 2015 7:17 PM  

Lurk Over Here: Like I wrote, try to get your nephew to share with you. You won't see altruism, even to his own kin, I assure you.
No. I've not met your nephew. Have you? Take his pacifier and tell him that some kid in Zimbabwe needs it more, and give us a full report. Just be glad that his vengeance is limited to squalling. If he could shoot you he would.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:18 PM  

"fascinating. You think that wickedness requires malice. you're a fool."

Take your spanking and slink away like a man.

Blogger Corvinus April 14, 2015 7:22 PM  

First, Sodomy isn't evil or a product of evil. It's simply another form of intimacy. If you think it's evil then all you have done is unthinkingly adopted the word of a mythical God.

Even if you don't think God disapproves of sodomy, Nature does. Where did AIDS come from? Who gets it more than anybody, along with many other loathsome diseases? And who has a particularly high likelihood of mental illness? Yup, those who participate in "simply another form of intimacy".

I hope you don't think Nature is mythical too.

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 7:23 PM  

"Take your spanking and slink away like a man."

You have no idea what wickedness is and no means to measure it. You likely can't articulate any kind of definition of good or evil... and yet you pose the intellectual.

You're an ignorant child.

we can go over the countless examples of wickedness that have nothing to do with intent or malice... which would be like rubbing a puppy's nose in its own poo to see that its lesson was learned.

But why bother?

One would have to believe you capable of learning.

I see no reason to do so.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:23 PM  

Sky Daddy tells you to kill yourselves. Listen to your imaginary friend!

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 7:24 PM  

"Take your spanking and slink away like a man."

You must be a fresh arrival from Whatever.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:24 PM  

"No. I've not met your nephew. Have you? Take his pacifier and tell him that some kid in Zimbabwe needs it more, and give us a full report. Just be glad that his vengeance is limited to squalling. If he could shoot you he would."

You think all babies are wicked and depraved and corrupt.

The only way one could possibly come to this conclusion is in one of two ways:

1. They've come to believe that the act of being wicked and depraved does not require the ability to to reason at any level. This would make you an idiot.

2. They've read and believed the bible. This would make you an idiot.

If there is anything that defines "innocence" it is a newborn. There is no evil, wicked or depraved bone in their body. None. And anyone who thinks there is must either be a Christian or someone defending Christianity.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:25 PM  

"You must be a fresh arrival from Whatever."

Address me again after you've decided you don't want to talk in riddles.

Blogger Corvinus April 14, 2015 7:27 PM  

If there is anything that defines "innocence" it is a newborn. There is no evil, wicked or depraved bone in their body. None.

A baptized infant, sure. Is your nephew baptized?

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:28 PM  

"we can go over the countless examples of wickedness that have nothing to do with intent or malice... which would be like rubbing a puppy's nose in its own poo to see that its lesson was learned.

But why bother"

You already tried...And failed. Now slink away you idiot. You've not offered a single example of how a 1 week old newborn could be wicked. Because it's impossible.

Now go away you defeated little, wicked frog.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:30 PM  

"A baptized infant, sure. Is your nephew baptized?"

Baptized....Magic and myth. Lovely.

Anonymous hh April 14, 2015 7:30 PM  

over/under on neckbeard?

Anonymous Discard April 14, 2015 7:32 PM  

Lurk Over Here: Try #3. We've seen enough children to know something about them. Babies are impotent, not innocent.
BTW, it has not escaped my notice that this is your nephew, not your son. Listen to the grown-ups who have experience in these matters.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:32 PM  

I pwned Vox Day. Not a peep from Sky Daddy. Idiots.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:34 PM  

@Lurk Over Here-2

Talk about infants! Find your own handle....

Anonymous fish April 14, 2015 7:34 PM  

Is Andrew off his meds and away from his minders again?

Blogger Markku April 14, 2015 7:35 PM  

That is exactly what I thought. Because I recognize this line: "Address me again after you've decided you don't want to talk in riddles."

I am absolutely certain I've heard that line before, although I am not positive it was Andrew. But I have strong suspicions to that effect.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:38 PM  

" We've seen enough children to know something about them. Babies are impotent, not innocent.
BTW, it has not escaped my notice that this is your nephew, not your son. Listen to the grown-ups who have experience in these matters."

If you think a newborn is depraved, wicked or corrupt, then you've learned nothing from your experienced. And it doesn't take experience to know this. Just ask my three daughters. They'll all tell you.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2015 7:39 PM  

If you want to mine the database, Unnamed Fellow, I think you will find the answer for us.

Anonymous fish April 14, 2015 7:39 PM  

I am absolutely certain I've heard that line before, although I am not positive it was Andrew. But I have strong suspicions to that effect.

Not just the specific lines but his mannerisms were a blatant "tell".

Anonymous Lana April 14, 2015 7:42 PM  

"Address me again after you've decided you don't want to talk in riddles." Sounds like a line from a regency romance novel. Will there be pistols at dawn, perhaps?

Anonymous Discard April 14, 2015 7:51 PM  

L.O.H: Imaginary daughters, created for this thread? Young girls are vicious backstabbers and slanderers. Boys are liars and bullies. We love them and try to teach them better. That's hard to do when we don't see them as they are. All teachers have to go around with idiot parents who try to tell us that their kid wouldn't do that. Yes they would.
Will you now imagine yourself a teaching credential so you can claim to refute me with your years of classroom experience?

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 7:56 PM  

"You already tried...And failed. Now slink away you idiot. You've not offered a single example of how a 1 week old newborn could be wicked. Because it's impossible."

Listen sugartits... what's abundantly clear is you have no idea what philosophical grounds you're walking on.

You cannot define wickedness. You cannot define evil. You cannot define good.

You're a pathetic child.

Boasting and crowing here is the equivelent of crapping on the rug and bragging about it.

You've done nothing but make an ass of yourself. You pick up a set of goal post throw them in the truck and drive off the cliff with them... and then claim victory?

Pathetic.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 8:00 PM  

" Young girls are vicious backstabbers and slanderers. Boys are liars and bullies."

What about newborn boys? Are they bullies, deprives, and wicked? The newborn girls too?

"All teachers have to go around with idiot parents who try to tell us that their kid wouldn't do that. Yes they would."

See many wicked, bullying, slandering, depraved newborns in those classrooms?

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 8:05 PM  

"You've done nothing but make an ass of yourself"

You are the one who tried to tell us that a 1 week old newborn is wicked and corrupt. Don't get mad at me for popping off like an idiot.

Blogger Noah B April 14, 2015 8:07 PM  

"Don't get mad at me for popping off like an idiot."

We're not. We're perfectly aware that you can't help it.

Anonymous Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 8:11 PM  

"We're not. We're perfectly aware that you can't help it."

More inane riddles from Riddle Boy.

Blogger Joshua Dyal April 14, 2015 8:11 PM  

Go fuck yourselves. I refuse to be bullied.

Ooooh! So brave!

Do you really think you're saying anything that everybody here hasn't already heard a hundred times or more already? Moron.

Blogger Danby April 14, 2015 8:13 PM  

Shorter Lurk:

Hey Look at me! I take it up the ass! Look at me! hey! Look ! Look at me!! You can't bully me! Look! Hey! ME!

Blogger Nate April 14, 2015 8:14 PM  

"You are the one who tried to tell us that a 1 week old newborn is wicked and corrupt. "

That is observable reality. The fact that you don't know what wicked and corrupt mean is hardly a problem of mine. Nor is it up to me to cure you of your cherished ignorance.

I'm not one to drag you fools from the cave. I'd just as soon roll a stone in front of it and leave you to your own.

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 8:17 PM  

Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 6:50 PM
Go fuck yourselves. I refuse to be bullied.


muwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

oh, child. YOU have no say in the matter. the bullied almost never do.

although, this is particularly amusing coming from someone who barged in here flinging invective *at us*.

you attack *us*.

we respond.

and WE are the 'bad people' here?

oh yes, right, SJW sighted.



Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:14 PM
The definition of wicked would be to have the capacity to think of the needs of others then ignore that capacity and ignore those needs.


liar. which is a form of 'wicked'.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wicked?s=t
1. evil or morally bad in principle or practice; sinful; iniquitous:



Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:23 PM
Sky Daddy tells you to kill yourselves.


citation needed.

actually, this clown reminds me of that guy who used to get on here and pretend to be Bathhouse Jesus.



Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 7:24 PM
If there is anything that defines "innocence" it is a newborn. There is no evil, wicked or depraved bone in their body. None.


well, it's nice how you think YOUR babby is the bestest, cutest, handsomest, most beautiful babby ever to crown ... but that doesn't really make you unique, you know?

ask your sister( -inlaw? ) next week how much consideration she is shown and how unselfish babby is.

right after she's gotten up for her third middle of the night nursing.

Anonymous Lurk what"s for dinner? April 14, 2015 8:20 PM  

Ass Bugers

Blogger bob k. mando April 14, 2015 8:21 PM  

Lurk Over Here April 14, 2015 8:05 PM
Don't get mad at me for popping off like an idiot.




please.

make it stop.

i can't breath, i'm laughing so hard.

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